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In October, my brother and I left Ohio.
We were driving to California.
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We got into Dallas on a Thursday night.
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Friday morning, while I'm eating eggs
and drinking coffee, I get a good job.
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I mean, it's, you know... all these people
are supposedly out of work.
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I'm not in town a half a day,
and I've got a job.
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Everything clicked.
It's as if I was meant to be here.
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I'd run away from home a couple
of times. Once or twice. I don't know.
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And this all started,
David is running away from home.
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And he takes... I took
a pistol of my dad's and a shotgun.
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Took a neighbor's car.
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I had broken into their house
and got the keys to it.
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I forget exactly what it was.
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Ended up coming to Dallas.
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I went to work and no one showed up.
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Being a weekend, sometimes
they worked, sometimes they didn't.
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On the way home, I ran out of gas.
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And as I was walking down the street
with the gas can...
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a person, at that time, pulled over.
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I guess since I had the gas can...
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he figured I was out of gas.
I wasn't 100 yards from the car.
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And being Thanksgiving weekend,
there was no gas stations open.
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He stopped and asked me
if I needed any help.
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I'm driving down some street
somewhere in Dallas.
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I had just turned 16.
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And there was a guy over there,
I think he'd run out of gas...
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I took him to get some gas.
This was Randall Adams.
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Ended up following him where
him and his brother were staying.
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Eventually, that evening...
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we went out and got some beer.
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We smoked a little marijuana
and what have you.
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Went to a movie that night.
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I get up, I go to work on Saturday.
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Why did I meet this kid? I don't know.
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Why did I run out of gas at that time?
I don't know. But it happened.
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The day they picked me up, December 21.
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They took me upstairs.
What floor, I don't know.
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But they put me in a little room.
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Gus Rose walked in.
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He had a confession there
he wanted me to sign.
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He said that I would sign.
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He didn't give a damn what I said.
I would sign this piece of paper.
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I told him I couldn't.
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"I don't know what the hell
you people expect of me.
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"But there's no way I can sign that."
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He left. He came back in 10 minutes.
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And threw a pistol on the table.
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Asked me to look at it.
Which I did. I looked.
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He asked me to pick it up.
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I told him no, I wouldn't do that.
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He threatened me.
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Again, I told him no.
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He pulled his service revolver on me.
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We looked at each other for...
To me, it seemed hours.
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I do not like looking down
the barrel of a pistol.
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I do not like being threatened.
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When he finally saw
that he would either have to kill me...
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or forget the signature...
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I guess he forgot the signature,
because he put his pistol up.
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He took the pistol on the table,
put it up and stormed out.
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I had a casual, friendly conversation
with him to start with...
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00:08:03,165 --> 00:08:05,735
to try to size him up...
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to see what he liked
and what he didn't like.
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I found almost immediately
that he didn't have much conscience.
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Anything he had done,
it never really bothered him.
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He had done other things
that he told me about...
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that didn't seem
to bother him in the least.
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He showed no expression whatsoever.
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It's just like he's sitting here
talking about the color of this wall...
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or the shooting of the police officer.
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He showed no reaction
to any of the questions.
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He almost overacted his innocence.
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He protested he hadn't done anything.
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Couldn't imagine
why we were bringing him in.
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He didn't fight or he didn't resist.
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He just protested his innocence.
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I told them what happened that
Saturday, that I had met this kid.
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I kept telling them the same thing.
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They didn't want to believe me.
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Never once was I allowed a phone call.
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Never once was an attorney there.
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I don't know how long this had been.
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I had smoked two packs of cigarettes
and had been out for a long time.
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Wood didn't take his ticket book
out of the car.
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He left it in the car
on the front seat...
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which indicates
that he was not going to write a ticket.
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What he was probably going to do
was have them turn on the headlights.
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He didn't know that the car was stolen.
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I think that there's
a very good chance...
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that he was going
to check the driver's license...
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and tell him to turn on his headlights,
and let the guy be on his way.
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Officer Wood's wife had purchased him...
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a bulletproof vest
and had it under the Christmas tree.
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Or had it stored away,
to give to him at Christmastime.
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His partner was one of the first
female police officers...
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that was assigned to patrol.
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They were from the Northwest Station.
Just patrol officers following the clock.
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Working the graveyard shift
and everything.
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They had been into a fast-food
restaurant. And she had a malt.
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This car came by, these
two dudes in it, with no lights on.
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It wasn't a serious problem...
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but he just pulled up,
turned his lights on to stop him.
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Just to warn the man
that his lights were off.
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Got out of the car and walked up.
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Before he got to the window,
where the driver was...
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he was in the right position.
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This man just turned around and just...
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with a little small-caliber pistol.
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The first shot hit him in the arm.
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He had his flashlight. It hit
the flashlight and went into his arm.
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The next one hit him right in the chest.
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The officer falls in the street
and he was in the first traffic lane.
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He lay there and bled to death.
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So she's out of the car.
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She empties her pistol
at the fleeing suspect...
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and she runs to his aid.
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Procedure says you grab the radio
and call for an ambulance.
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Common sense would tell you that.
But what do you do?
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And that time,
she's so... just tore down.
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And the blood.
An enormous amount of blood.
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How do we hold her responsible
for not following procedure?
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But the main thing was, she
couldn't remember the license number.
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When we started putting facts together
on how much information we had...
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from the leads we had,
we found out we didn't have anything.
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The only thing that we knew
we were looking for was a blue Vega.
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Probably every Vega that was
registered in the state of Texas...
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was stopped and checked.
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We had people calling the office...
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saying, "I've got a Vega
and it's not blue.
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"But would you come out
and be sure to check it.
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"Be sure it's not mine, because
I don't want to get stopped anymore.
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"I'm afraid."
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If you're the investigator
assigned to the murder...
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you get frustrated with other witnesses.
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But when you got a police officer
that witnessed it...
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you expect that they would know
a little more than she knew.
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Procedure.
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When there's a two-person unit,
when either one approaches the car...
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the other positions himself
to the right rear...
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where they can watch
all the activity in the car.
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And if the man on the left of the driver
gets in trouble...
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their partner is in a position to help.
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Speculation was, at the time...
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that his partner was sitting in the car.
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That's where the discrepancies were.
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Just a matter of time, and whether
or not she was out of the car...
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completely out of the car,
or partially in the car...
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or just sitting in there
with the door closed.
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And the thing I think we did then
that really helped...
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It didn't really help anything at all.
Let me back up.
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But it was interesting,
and it cost a lot of money...
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but it was worthwhile.
You got to cover every trail.
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A guy out of California...
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I don't recall his name,
he was an expert in hypnosis.
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He came down,
hypnotized her and questioned her.
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What was interesting was...
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she couldn't remember anything
particularly about the car.
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She remembered getting a malt.
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They'd stopped in the fast-food.
It was a Whataburger.
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They remembered all that,
and stopping the car.
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Got back on the road.
She didn't remember anything.
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But she remembered a license number
off a hit-and-run vehicle...
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that they had worked
earlier in the night.
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It was getting awfully close
to Christmas.
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We'd never gone that long in Dallas
without clearing a murder of an officer.
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We'd had several killed,
but we'd cleared them pretty quick.
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And this case had gone a month,
or nearly a month...
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and we still hadn't cleared it.
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We finally got the break that cleared it.
It came out of Vidor, Texas.
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Mr. Calvin Cunningham, who lives
in Vidor, had his home broken into...
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and his little Mercury Comet stolen.
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We felt as though
David had committed that crime.
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For several days, though,
he was missing. We couldn't find him.
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It was one afternoon, one of our
officers spotted Cunningham's car...
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on North Main Street, here in Vidor.
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David abandoned the vehicle
and ran on foot.
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00:17:07,376 --> 00:17:10,312
We started getting
little bits of information, though...
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that David had been involved in a
shooting in Dallas of a police officer.
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We would always get
third-hand rumor, fourth-hand rumor.
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So we went back to a few of his other
comrades in crime, we could call them.
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They said,
"We thought he was just bragging.
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00:17:27,729 --> 00:17:30,065
"We didn't really take him seriously."
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00:17:30,165 --> 00:17:33,035
Sitting down, watching the
evening news, well, the night news.
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00:17:33,135 --> 00:17:35,462
My father was asleep on the couch.
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00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:39,069
Heard somebody knocking at the door.
It was David Harris.
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I let him in. He came in.
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He was standing there beside my chair...
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and a news broadcast advertised
about a police officer shot in Dallas.
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Right then and there he starts
swearing up and down.
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00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:55,557
He says, "I swear to God,
I shot that fucking pig."
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He says, "I'm the one that killed him."
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Somewhere around Dallas,
they got pulled over.
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00:18:00,529 --> 00:18:04,032
I think he said because
they were checking out a stolen car.
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He said that the cop
had pulled him over...
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00:18:08,103 --> 00:18:09,905
and walked up to the window.
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When the cop came,
he rolled down the window...
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and just pulled the gun up and shot him.
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00:18:14,943 --> 00:18:16,445
He swore up and down.
199
00:18:16,545 --> 00:18:19,881
He made a big scene about it.
Jumped up and down...
200
00:18:19,981 --> 00:18:21,917
trying to get anybody and everybody...
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00:18:22,017 --> 00:18:25,243
to listen to him.
"Yeah, I shot that son of a gun."
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00:18:25,353 --> 00:18:28,317
And everybody said,
"Sure you did, David. Sure."
203
00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:31,190
"I swear to God I killed that cop."
204
00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:36,092
I asked him if he'd been to Dallas.
He denied having been to Dallas.
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00:18:36,498 --> 00:18:38,900
I asked him if he'd been involved
in any shooting...
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00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,193
or knew anything about a shooting,
and he denied that to the end.
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00:18:43,371 --> 00:18:47,209
Which is fairly consistent with David.
Even if he had some involvement...
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00:18:47,309 --> 00:18:50,979
his first way that he always treats you,
he would deny.
209
00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:53,949
Then, if he felt as though
you really knew he had done it...
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00:18:54,049 --> 00:18:56,114
then he would be truthful with you.
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00:18:56,418 --> 00:18:59,109
He give me a pistol,
a .22 caliber pistol.
212
00:18:59,554 --> 00:19:03,690
He showed it to me. He says,
"That's the one I shot him with."
213
00:19:04,459 --> 00:19:06,490
He gave me the pistol.
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00:19:08,196 --> 00:19:09,898
I didn't really consider it that much.
215
00:19:09,998 --> 00:19:13,429
I don't guess I really realized
he did shoot the cop.
216
00:19:14,002 --> 00:19:16,671
He led me to a swampy area...
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00:19:16,771 --> 00:19:19,608
several hundred yards
behind his residence in Rose City.
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There was a sock under water.
He said, "There it is."
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00:19:22,344 --> 00:19:25,240
And he had sprayed
this sock with boot oil.
220
00:19:26,348 --> 00:19:28,116
When we retrieved the gun...
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00:19:28,216 --> 00:19:31,653
I said, "I better do something with it.
It's going to rust up."
222
00:19:31,753 --> 00:19:36,191
Even the time that I saw the gun
at the trial in Dallas...
223
00:19:36,291 --> 00:19:39,194
it looked just as good
as when I'd taken it out of the swamp.
224
00:19:39,294 --> 00:19:43,362
So he had taken pretty good care of it,
even though he did put it under water.
225
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He got to thinking...
226
00:19:49,337 --> 00:19:52,836
"I didn't do that
and I've been saying that I did...
227
00:19:53,008 --> 00:19:56,711
"and I'm in over my head now,
I better tell them what happened.
228
00:19:56,811 --> 00:20:00,649
"Because they are going to send me
to the penitentiary for life...
229
00:20:00,749 --> 00:20:03,285
"if I don't tell them
what really happened."
230
00:20:03,385 --> 00:20:06,721
So he said,
"I am just bragging about this.
231
00:20:06,821 --> 00:20:10,752
"I didn't do it, but I was there,
and I know who did do it."
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00:20:11,159 --> 00:20:14,157
And, of course, he came clean then.
233
00:20:15,597 --> 00:20:17,992
He tried to hide no facts.
234
00:20:18,567 --> 00:20:21,031
He just seemed like a friendly kid.
235
00:20:22,504 --> 00:20:27,334
I may have talked to him
15 or 20 minutes on a friendly basis...
236
00:20:30,178 --> 00:20:32,107
just to keep him friendly.
237
00:20:34,983 --> 00:20:37,242
We didn't want to make him mad.
238
00:20:41,256 --> 00:20:44,092
But we didn't want him to tell us
something that he thought.
239
00:20:44,192 --> 00:20:46,656
We wanted him to tell us what we knew.
240
00:20:46,995 --> 00:20:50,358
It wasn't very long until I realized
that what he knew...
241
00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:54,769
was the facts of the case,
and it matched with what we knew.
242
00:20:54,869 --> 00:20:56,696
And it had to be right.
243
00:20:57,439 --> 00:20:59,539
The story that I told was...
244
00:21:00,242 --> 00:21:04,469
It was like 12:00 something.
So it was the next day...
245
00:21:05,947 --> 00:21:08,911
early in the morning. We were stopped.
246
00:21:11,886 --> 00:21:15,146
When we were stopped,
the officer came up to the car...
247
00:21:15,390 --> 00:21:19,526
and asked to see the driver's license,
and he just started shooting.
248
00:21:24,232 --> 00:21:29,096
I don't know why, but it's always
seemed like time just stopped.
249
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,035
It didn't seem like any time passed.
250
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:38,713
It just seemed like it was, boom!
251
00:21:38,813 --> 00:21:42,278
Time stopped or something.
I don't know what it is.
252
00:21:47,122 --> 00:21:48,721
It's like a flash.
253
00:21:51,192 --> 00:21:53,121
We went back to his room.
254
00:21:53,628 --> 00:21:57,999
He was supposed to ask his brother
if I could stay there that night.
255
00:21:58,099 --> 00:22:01,496
But he said
that his brother don't like to do that.
256
00:22:02,537 --> 00:22:06,173
Anyhow, he went in
and never came back out. So I left.
257
00:22:09,611 --> 00:22:12,006
Ended up pulling into a parking lot.
258
00:22:13,448 --> 00:22:15,717
I slept there I think, for a while.
259
00:22:15,817 --> 00:22:18,787
Then, finally, the next morning,
early or something...
260
00:22:18,887 --> 00:22:21,783
I found my way to Freeway 45.
261
00:22:22,457 --> 00:22:24,022
And went back home.
262
00:22:30,432 --> 00:22:34,302
After riding around with him,
I come to find out he's got an arsenal.
263
00:22:34,402 --> 00:22:38,834
He's got pistols. He's got rifles.
264
00:22:39,341 --> 00:22:43,144
He's got this pistol.
He's waving it around. He's doing this.
265
00:22:43,244 --> 00:22:47,505
I told him, "Hey, why don't you put
those in the trunk of the car?"
266
00:22:49,150 --> 00:22:51,019
We stopped at a restaurant...
267
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,955
and ordered
and ate sandwiches in the car.
268
00:22:54,055 --> 00:22:55,813
I bought a six-pack of beer.
269
00:22:57,525 --> 00:22:59,661
He pulled this pistol back out.
270
00:22:59,761 --> 00:23:02,521
And I ask him why he got the pistol out.
271
00:23:02,664 --> 00:23:06,067
And he kind of laughed...
272
00:23:06,167 --> 00:23:09,894
rolled the window down,
and fired the pistol outside the car.
273
00:23:11,873 --> 00:23:14,598
And I asked him to please put it up.
274
00:23:16,544 --> 00:23:20,715
And I think he handed me the pistol,
and I put it under the driver's seat.
275
00:23:20,815 --> 00:23:24,542
He wanted to go to the movies,
so we went to the movies.
276
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,286
We got there probably at about 7:00.
277
00:23:36,431 --> 00:23:39,301
He was the one
that had picked the movie out.
278
00:23:39,401 --> 00:23:42,337
I call them drive-in movies,
beer-drinking movies.
279
00:23:42,437 --> 00:23:45,307
$0.50, put them together
and make a bunch of money...
280
00:23:45,407 --> 00:23:48,343
with a bunch of people
getting drunk at the drive-in.
281
00:23:48,443 --> 00:23:51,746
- Are you going to concede?
- Please, sit down...
282
00:23:51,846 --> 00:23:53,775
What is this, Mr. Brooks?
283
00:23:53,982 --> 00:23:56,751
- Anybody can see it's an ashtray.
- Wrong!
284
00:23:56,851 --> 00:23:59,921
Anybody can plainly see
it's a wall-breaker!
285
00:24:00,021 --> 00:24:02,057
I'm trying to speak for you!
286
00:24:02,157 --> 00:24:06,760
I'm trying to speak for all of you!
I am the student body!
287
00:24:09,164 --> 00:24:13,494
The show that was on was half over.
We watched half of the one show...
288
00:24:14,269 --> 00:24:17,905
we started watching
the first part of the second show.
289
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:23,071
We want a victory,
and we're gonna get it.
290
00:24:34,489 --> 00:24:36,925
I didn't really care
for the second feature...
291
00:24:37,025 --> 00:24:40,862
which is an R-rated,
cheerleader-type thing.
292
00:24:40,962 --> 00:24:42,891
I don't know what it was.
293
00:24:43,631 --> 00:24:45,355
May I have some wine?
294
00:25:02,050 --> 00:25:04,352
It's good, Ross.
I didn't know you could cook.
295
00:25:04,452 --> 00:25:06,176
It is good, isn't it?
296
00:25:06,988 --> 00:25:09,952
You got to try my celery rémoulade.
297
00:25:22,103 --> 00:25:24,271
No.
298
00:25:30,778 --> 00:25:32,714
I told him I wanted to leave.
299
00:25:32,814 --> 00:25:37,041
"I don't really care
to sit here and watch this. Let's go."
300
00:25:40,355 --> 00:25:44,992
He's acting strange, he wanted
to watch the end. Anyway, we left.
301
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,121
We drove back towards Dallas
and we drove to the motel.
302
00:25:51,132 --> 00:25:54,536
There's a little store.
I bought a pack of cigarettes...
303
00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:56,204
and a newspaper.
304
00:25:56,304 --> 00:25:59,337
And when I left,
this kid was still sitting there.
305
00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:03,812
I leaned against the car and we
talked to him for a few minutes...
306
00:26:03,912 --> 00:26:07,916
and I told him
that since he was looking for a job...
307
00:26:08,016 --> 00:26:09,918
and there hadn't been anybody at work...
308
00:26:10,018 --> 00:26:12,720
that if he wanted to stop back
Monday morning...
309
00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:15,657
that sure, he could ride out
and follow me to work...
310
00:26:15,757 --> 00:26:19,324
and he could talk to the boss.
And he would probably get a job.
311
00:26:19,894 --> 00:26:23,932
I told him that I would catch him
Monday morning if he showed up.
312
00:26:24,032 --> 00:26:26,367
I told him what time I went to work.
Why, I left.
313
00:26:26,467 --> 00:26:29,397
I walked around the store
and went to the house.
314
00:26:29,571 --> 00:26:34,140
When I walked in, the television was
on and my brother was sleeping.
315
00:26:34,375 --> 00:26:37,442
He had been home this whole time
that I had been gone.
316
00:26:37,845 --> 00:26:39,876
So I made me a sandwich...
317
00:26:40,448 --> 00:26:43,640
and sat there and watched the end of
The Carol Burnett Show.
318
00:26:46,654 --> 00:26:51,553
When it went off, the news came on
and I watched 15 minutes of it.
319
00:26:52,894 --> 00:26:55,824
And that was it.
I turned the TV off and went to sleep.
320
00:27:10,445 --> 00:27:13,915
Finally, they bring in a stenographer.
321
00:27:14,015 --> 00:27:17,013
She sits down and I run the story.
322
00:27:17,385 --> 00:27:20,321
I tell them what happened this Saturday.
323
00:27:20,421 --> 00:27:22,919
She leaves. She types.
324
00:27:49,784 --> 00:27:52,654
She comes back
in about 25 to 30 minutes...
325
00:27:52,754 --> 00:27:55,548
with a copy of this statement.
326
00:27:56,691 --> 00:27:58,381
I read through it...
327
00:27:59,394 --> 00:28:03,121
and when it was basically
what I liked...
328
00:28:04,232 --> 00:28:05,797
yes, I signed it.
329
00:28:16,244 --> 00:28:20,437
He admits driving the car
and taking a right on Inwood Road...
330
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:25,908
off of Interstate 35...
331
00:28:26,587 --> 00:28:28,379
or Highway 183.
332
00:28:31,192 --> 00:28:32,594
He admits driving it.
333
00:28:32,694 --> 00:28:36,489
After he made his right turn
on Inwood Road...
334
00:28:37,031 --> 00:28:39,859
this is where our statement ends.
335
00:28:41,903 --> 00:28:45,266
He says he does not
remember anything after that.
336
00:28:46,274 --> 00:28:48,476
He didn't remember anything
about a shooting.
337
00:28:48,576 --> 00:28:53,145
He didn't remember anything about
a police officer stopping him.
338
00:28:53,848 --> 00:28:57,984
That part of his mind
just conveniently went blank.
339
00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:00,455
He remembered driving the car...
340
00:29:00,555 --> 00:29:03,391
and he remembered approaching
the scene of the shooting...
341
00:29:03,491 --> 00:29:05,593
and then, from that point,
he blacks out...
342
00:29:05,693 --> 00:29:08,096
and can't remember
until he gets to the motel room...
343
00:29:08,196 --> 00:29:12,000
which is some 10 minutes later.
Everything else he remembers vividly.
344
00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:15,531
And that's just a convenient memory
lapse, is all that is.
345
00:29:20,374 --> 00:29:23,011
The Morning News in Dallas County...
346
00:29:23,111 --> 00:29:25,246
stated that I had signed a confession...
347
00:29:25,346 --> 00:29:27,949
that I had confessed
to the killing of Robert Wood...
348
00:29:28,049 --> 00:29:31,343
and they had their killer
and they were ready to go with it.
349
00:29:32,887 --> 00:29:37,114
The statement that I signed
for Dallas County...
350
00:29:38,926 --> 00:29:40,094
was never...
351
00:29:40,194 --> 00:29:44,490
and never would have been anything
as "a confession."
352
00:29:45,399 --> 00:29:47,658
But yet, they labeled it as such.
353
00:29:48,503 --> 00:29:52,571
Of course, I couldn't dispute this
because I didn't even know about it.
354
00:29:53,141 --> 00:29:57,245
I heard no news.
I knew nothing for two weeks.
355
00:29:57,345 --> 00:30:00,241
They kept me completely away
from everybody.
356
00:30:04,051 --> 00:30:08,389
Several times we talked to her,
trying to get her to recall.
357
00:30:08,489 --> 00:30:12,627
"Do you recall the license number?
Do you recall anything to help us?"
358
00:30:12,727 --> 00:30:15,396
And she gave us
a pretty good description of the car.
359
00:30:15,496 --> 00:30:18,995
As it turned out, her description
of the car was real close.
360
00:30:27,942 --> 00:30:30,611
It comes out that we weren't
looking for a blue Vega.
361
00:30:30,711 --> 00:30:33,038
We were looking for a Comet.
362
00:30:35,349 --> 00:30:39,178
No telling the man-hours
we literally wasted...
363
00:30:39,453 --> 00:30:41,177
looking for a blue Vega.
364
00:30:47,295 --> 00:30:50,658
There is a difference
between a Vega and a Mercury Comet.
365
00:30:50,998 --> 00:30:54,531
So in reality, in regard to cars...
366
00:30:54,635 --> 00:30:58,236
every piece of information
that was called in...
367
00:30:58,639 --> 00:31:02,673
they were calling in regard to a Comet,
I mean, a Vega.
368
00:31:11,385 --> 00:31:14,255
The people that called in were truthful,
trying to help.
369
00:31:14,355 --> 00:31:16,958
They really were trying to help.
370
00:31:17,058 --> 00:31:19,556
We just all had the wrong information.
371
00:31:40,648 --> 00:31:43,451
There wasn't a mark on this car
David Harris had stolen.
372
00:31:43,551 --> 00:31:45,116
Wasn't a mark.
373
00:31:45,253 --> 00:31:48,013
Do you think a car sitting still...
374
00:31:48,823 --> 00:31:52,857
starting from a stop,
heading up a hill...
375
00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:54,996
with a woman standing right behind it...
376
00:31:55,096 --> 00:31:57,298
that is a very good shot
with a pistol...
377
00:31:57,398 --> 00:32:00,301
She should have hit
the damn thing one time. She didn't.
378
00:32:00,401 --> 00:32:04,205
I wish to God she had blown whoever
was driving the car's head off...
379
00:32:04,305 --> 00:32:06,666
because I wouldn't have been here.
380
00:32:10,144 --> 00:32:12,046
I went back several times...
381
00:32:12,146 --> 00:32:15,616
and with Mr. Cunningham,
he and I both searched...
382
00:32:15,716 --> 00:32:20,216
and could find no indications that
that car had been hit by gunfire.
383
00:32:22,123 --> 00:32:24,992
Later on, he finally found one place...
384
00:32:25,092 --> 00:32:28,591
that he felt as though
that a bullet had been creased on it.
385
00:32:28,763 --> 00:32:32,797
But before he could tell me about it,
his daughter totaled the car out.
386
00:32:33,034 --> 00:32:34,826
Totally demolished it.
387
00:32:38,572 --> 00:32:42,299
I was doing burglaries
and some robberies...
388
00:32:44,178 --> 00:32:46,981
and a few possession cases
and stuff like that.
389
00:32:47,081 --> 00:32:49,283
I think he just came up to me and said:
390
00:32:49,383 --> 00:32:52,987
"Are you Edith James?
I'd like to talk about my case."
391
00:32:53,087 --> 00:32:55,482
That's the way I remember it, anyhow.
392
00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:58,993
And I said, "Sure."
And I said, "What sort of a case is it?"
393
00:32:59,093 --> 00:33:01,829
He said, "It's a capital
murder." And I said...
394
00:33:01,929 --> 00:33:03,497
Inside, I kind of thought:
395
00:33:03,597 --> 00:33:07,927
"I've never done one,
but I can surely talk to him about it."
396
00:33:10,371 --> 00:33:13,199
I hate to be considered...
397
00:33:14,075 --> 00:33:18,678
some kind of dummy that believes
in the innocence of her clients.
398
00:33:19,714 --> 00:33:22,583
A lot of people think,
"A woman lawyer...
399
00:33:22,683 --> 00:33:26,649
"she's bound to stupidly believe
anything she's told."
400
00:33:28,155 --> 00:33:30,823
I admit, I'm sort of a gullible person.
401
00:33:31,158 --> 00:33:34,362
But on the other hand,
I've seen an awful lot of people...
402
00:33:34,462 --> 00:33:37,265
who admitted guilt
or were found guilty...
403
00:33:37,365 --> 00:33:42,093
and all but Randall turned out
to be guilty, in my opinion.
404
00:33:45,139 --> 00:33:47,933
Douglas Mulder had a perfect win record.
405
00:33:49,677 --> 00:33:53,814
I believe he resigned from the
D.A. 's office without any defeats.
406
00:33:53,914 --> 00:33:55,945
That's why he's legendary.
407
00:33:56,951 --> 00:34:00,354
Everything, as I recall,
that Mulder ever said...
408
00:34:00,454 --> 00:34:02,523
was about what a great guy Mulder was...
409
00:34:02,623 --> 00:34:06,816
and how marvelous it was that
he was getting all these convictions.
410
00:34:08,863 --> 00:34:13,227
I wanted somebody else in on it,
so I got Dennis interested in it...
411
00:34:13,768 --> 00:34:16,270
because Dennis has a lot more
trial experience...
412
00:34:16,370 --> 00:34:19,539
and Dennis wins
practically all of his jury cases.
413
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,477
And Dennis was very enthusiastic
about the Randall Adams case...
414
00:34:23,577 --> 00:34:25,713
because he kept saying,
"This is one we can win.
415
00:34:25,813 --> 00:34:29,881
"They don't have substantial evidence.
All they've got is David Harris."
416
00:34:30,151 --> 00:34:34,583
I prepared a motion for a continuance
to get more time to try the case...
417
00:34:35,256 --> 00:34:39,860
and in doing that had to lay out
my schedule for several weeks...
418
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,685
as to exactly what time
I'd be in Vidor, Texas.
419
00:34:43,097 --> 00:34:47,034
Vidor is the headquarters of the
Ku Klux Klan for the state of Texas.
420
00:34:47,134 --> 00:34:50,104
It's a city where black people
will not spend the night.
421
00:34:50,204 --> 00:34:54,363
Black people won't even stop there
to get their car filled with gasoline.
422
00:34:54,708 --> 00:34:57,778
And furthermore, the people of Vidor
were under the impression...
423
00:34:57,878 --> 00:35:01,047
that the policeman that was murdered
was a black man.
424
00:35:02,049 --> 00:35:04,149
I had to stop at a motel on the way.
425
00:35:04,285 --> 00:35:07,521
My wife and I stayed in one room,
the lady lawyer in another room.
426
00:35:07,621 --> 00:35:12,087
We arranged to get up very early,
go to Vidor and start our investigation.
427
00:35:12,526 --> 00:35:14,717
At about 6:00 in the morning...
428
00:35:15,196 --> 00:35:17,887
Edith James, the lady lawyer, got up...
429
00:35:18,632 --> 00:35:20,801
and was looking for me.
430
00:35:20,901 --> 00:35:24,405
While she went out in the parking lot
to find me, she went to one room...
431
00:35:24,505 --> 00:35:26,140
and someone in the parking lot said:
432
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,442
"If you're looking
for the lawyer from Dallas...
433
00:35:28,542 --> 00:35:31,045
"he's in room..."
And he gave her the room number.
434
00:35:31,145 --> 00:35:32,847
I immediately began to suspect...
435
00:35:32,947 --> 00:35:37,174
from the time I was that close to Vidor,
I was being followed and observed.
436
00:35:38,018 --> 00:35:40,688
Doug Mulder had been there
the week before I had...
437
00:35:40,788 --> 00:35:43,354
and had told the people
in Vidor that I was...
438
00:35:43,524 --> 00:35:46,921
an Eastern-educated
civil liberties attorney...
439
00:35:47,361 --> 00:35:51,930
and that I was down there
to discredit David Harris.
440
00:35:54,401 --> 00:35:58,039
And then I had been recommended
to see one particular policeman...
441
00:35:58,139 --> 00:36:01,942
who had been led
to the solution of this case.
442
00:36:02,042 --> 00:36:03,944
And I had the impression...
443
00:36:04,044 --> 00:36:07,645
that he was the one honest policeman
I could trust in Vidor.
444
00:36:08,749 --> 00:36:12,319
He told me that
after the policeman was killed...
445
00:36:12,419 --> 00:36:14,622
David Harris went back to Vidor.
446
00:36:14,722 --> 00:36:18,592
But before he was arrested,
he committed a robbery down there...
447
00:36:18,692 --> 00:36:22,763
and had someone on the floor
of a 7-Eleven type of store...
448
00:36:22,863 --> 00:36:24,758
with a shotgun at her throat.
449
00:36:25,366 --> 00:36:27,056
Got back there...
450
00:36:28,068 --> 00:36:31,704
robbed O'Bannion's 7-Eleven
with a.22 rifle.
451
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,873
Committed some other burglaries
and what have you.
452
00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:39,746
All this time I was on probation.
Juvenile probation.
453
00:36:41,782 --> 00:36:45,577
Eventually I turned myself in
for this stuff in Vidor.
454
00:36:51,091 --> 00:36:55,227
I think I made a confession.
I can't even remember exactly.
455
00:36:55,696 --> 00:36:57,295
So I'm told I did.
456
00:37:04,371 --> 00:37:06,740
He had told us he had robbed stores,
and we laughed.
457
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,642
"Sure, we know you have."
458
00:37:08,742 --> 00:37:10,744
I'd given him one of my hats.
459
00:37:10,844 --> 00:37:13,848
It's an old Bonnie-and-Clyde-looking
hat, it's turned sideways.
460
00:37:13,948 --> 00:37:17,151
We said, "We'll draw you a little
mustache, walk in with that gun.
461
00:37:17,251 --> 00:37:19,646
"Nobody'll know who you are."
462
00:37:19,753 --> 00:37:23,791
About 2:00 that morning,
I was asleep and the phone rings.
463
00:37:23,891 --> 00:37:27,161
I said, "Hello?" He said, "This is
David." "This is David Harris?"
464
00:37:27,261 --> 00:37:29,830
"Yeah," he said, "I did it.
Will you come and get me?"
465
00:37:29,930 --> 00:37:32,325
I said, "I'm not coming to get you.
I'm asleep."
466
00:37:36,637 --> 00:37:38,702
He didn't have a conscience.
467
00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:42,743
If I do something bad,
it kind of gets to me.
468
00:37:42,843 --> 00:37:46,809
I feel, "Shucks, I shouldn't have done
that. I feel bad about it."
469
00:37:47,414 --> 00:37:50,549
But it didn't bother him.
Didn't bother him at all.
470
00:38:06,066 --> 00:38:08,769
We asked the D.A. In Vidor, Texas...
471
00:38:08,869 --> 00:38:11,372
what they were going to do
with little David. They said:
472
00:38:11,472 --> 00:38:14,175
"We'll send him
to the Texas Youth Council."
473
00:38:14,275 --> 00:38:16,210
And we sort of tried to inquire...
474
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:19,847
didn't he think it was strange
that there was a robbery committed...
475
00:38:19,947 --> 00:38:21,582
with that same pistol.
476
00:38:21,682 --> 00:38:24,851
And here it was David Harris' pistol...
477
00:38:25,019 --> 00:38:29,178
David Harris' automobile
that picked up Randall Adams.
478
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:31,492
Didn't he think it was a little odd...
479
00:38:31,592 --> 00:38:35,729
that all the utensils for committing
this so-called murder...
480
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:39,733
were furnished by David Harris
who got off scot-free...
481
00:38:39,833 --> 00:38:42,603
and was being a witness
for the prosecution?
482
00:38:42,703 --> 00:38:47,397
And all he said was, "We don't
feel that way in Vidor, Texas.
483
00:38:47,708 --> 00:38:49,610
"Our people just are not that...
484
00:38:49,710 --> 00:38:54,142
"We're not that keen
on ruining a young man's life."
485
00:38:57,117 --> 00:39:00,321
I tried to introduce
the crime spree theory.
486
00:39:00,421 --> 00:39:03,920
The theory that David Harris
was on this series of crimes...
487
00:39:04,024 --> 00:39:06,827
both before and after
the killing of the policeman.
488
00:39:06,927 --> 00:39:09,789
That he would be the person who had...
489
00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:13,361
the heart filled with malice
most apt to commit a murder.
490
00:39:13,767 --> 00:39:17,562
But the judge would not allow me
to introduce any of those crimes.
491
00:39:18,872 --> 00:39:21,233
They'd had a 28-year-old man.
492
00:39:21,775 --> 00:39:25,012
The only alternative
would be prosecuting a 16-year-old...
493
00:39:25,112 --> 00:39:28,249
that could not be given
the death penalty under Texas law...
494
00:39:28,349 --> 00:39:30,574
where our 28-year-old man could.
495
00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:35,889
That's always been the predominant
motive, in my opinion...
496
00:39:35,989 --> 00:39:39,215
for having a death penalty case
against Randall Adams.
497
00:39:39,526 --> 00:39:42,162
Not that they had him so dead to rights.
498
00:39:42,262 --> 00:39:44,396
But just that he was a convenient age.
499
00:39:49,203 --> 00:39:51,639
The judge is supposed to have said...
500
00:39:51,739 --> 00:39:55,500
That Don Metcalfe
is supposed to have said...
501
00:39:55,743 --> 00:39:59,113
to Jeanette White,
Dennis White's wife...
502
00:39:59,213 --> 00:40:02,041
"What do you care? He's only a drifter."
503
00:40:05,853 --> 00:40:07,254
I grew up in a family...
504
00:40:07,354 --> 00:40:10,785
where I was taught a great respect
for law enforcement.
505
00:40:11,191 --> 00:40:14,595
I became acutely aware of the dangers...
506
00:40:14,695 --> 00:40:18,365
that police officers go through,
law enforcement officials go through...
507
00:40:18,465 --> 00:40:23,102
that I think much of the public
is not really sensitive to.
508
00:40:24,638 --> 00:40:26,273
My father was an FBI man.
509
00:40:26,373 --> 00:40:29,643
Probably at the worst possible time
to be in the FBI.
510
00:40:29,743 --> 00:40:33,970
It was from 1932 to 1935 in Chicago.
511
00:40:34,982 --> 00:40:39,346
He was at the Biograph Theater
the night that Dillinger was killed.
512
00:40:41,855 --> 00:40:45,592
It was a hot summer evening.
Little air conditioning in Chicago...
513
00:40:45,692 --> 00:40:47,883
and people were out for a walk.
514
00:41:03,744 --> 00:41:06,780
My father would tell me
that when Dillinger was killed...
515
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,349
within a matter of two minutes...
516
00:41:08,449 --> 00:41:11,379
people were dipping their
handkerchiefs in the blood...
517
00:41:11,552 --> 00:41:13,287
to get souvenirs.
518
00:41:13,387 --> 00:41:15,456
And he vividly remembered one lady...
519
00:41:15,556 --> 00:41:18,859
who, all she had was a newspaper,
held it up and said:
520
00:41:18,959 --> 00:41:23,425
"I bet I'm the only lady from Kansas
City with John Dillinger's blood."
521
00:41:27,501 --> 00:41:29,896
He told me, the "Woman in Red"...
522
00:41:30,337 --> 00:41:33,640
she had on an orange dress.
This is trivia, okay?
523
00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:36,777
It looked red under the lights.
He said it was really orange.
524
00:41:36,877 --> 00:41:40,581
So she got to be known as the
"Lady in Red" that fingered Dillinger.
525
00:41:40,681 --> 00:41:43,441
He said, "It was really
the Lady in Orange."
526
00:41:44,318 --> 00:41:47,354
As her reward, she got a new fur coat...
527
00:41:47,454 --> 00:41:51,055
and a one-way ticket
back to her native Romania.
528
00:41:58,732 --> 00:42:03,028
His whole story
from the start was two hours late.
529
00:42:03,837 --> 00:42:07,438
I met this kid
at around 10:00 in the morning.
530
00:42:07,541 --> 00:42:09,868
He says we met at noon.
531
00:42:10,544 --> 00:42:14,615
I say we were at the Bronco Bowl
at 2:00 or 3:00.
532
00:42:14,715 --> 00:42:16,906
He says it was 5:00 or 6:00.
533
00:42:18,385 --> 00:42:22,521
Everything that we did coincide with,
he was two hours late.
534
00:42:23,924 --> 00:42:28,458
Two hours later.
Two hours into the night.
535
00:42:29,930 --> 00:42:32,199
His testimony is that...
536
00:42:32,299 --> 00:42:35,935
as we were getting off the freeway
on Inwood Avenue...
537
00:42:36,169 --> 00:42:38,872
he stated that I'm driving the car...
538
00:42:38,972 --> 00:42:40,833
that we're pulled over.
539
00:42:40,974 --> 00:42:44,803
He gets scared and he slumps down
in the seat of the car.
540
00:42:54,788 --> 00:42:56,979
That, as the officer walks up...
541
00:42:57,624 --> 00:43:02,454
and shines his flashlight,
and I roll down my window...
542
00:43:06,533 --> 00:43:09,167
I pull the pistol out
and blow this man away.
543
00:43:15,676 --> 00:43:17,144
His testimony is...
544
00:43:17,244 --> 00:43:20,174
when I finally do drive to the motel...
545
00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:23,684
I get out. I tell him,
"Don't worry about it.
546
00:43:23,784 --> 00:43:25,918
"Forget this ever happened."
547
00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:28,419
That's crazy.
548
00:43:31,692 --> 00:43:34,094
The police officer
was killed at 12:30...
549
00:43:34,194 --> 00:43:37,557
which is about two and a half hours
after he last saw me.
550
00:43:41,702 --> 00:43:43,570
Just before he went into the motel...
551
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:46,206
he'd gone across the motel courtyard...
552
00:43:46,306 --> 00:43:49,543
to a little store over there
and bought some cigarettes.
553
00:43:49,643 --> 00:43:53,280
And I was supposed to go and find out
if the man remembered him...
554
00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:57,573
coming in there just before 10:00
to buy the cigarettes.
555
00:43:58,018 --> 00:44:01,745
I didn't get over there
to Fort Worth for a long time.
556
00:44:02,255 --> 00:44:06,448
We got some pictures from his family
that didn't show him in jail clothes.
557
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,926
I took the pictures in to show them
to the man behind the counter.
558
00:44:11,698 --> 00:44:14,924
He was very cooperative
and he wanted to help us.
559
00:44:15,135 --> 00:44:16,637
But he honestly... He said:
560
00:44:16,737 --> 00:44:19,506
"I don't remember anything
about this guy coming in there...
561
00:44:19,606 --> 00:44:23,744
"I couldn't tell one night from another.
Might have been that night or another.
562
00:44:23,844 --> 00:44:26,274
"Cause they were always coming
for cigarettes."
563
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,942
His brother...
564
00:44:30,017 --> 00:44:31,377
at first...
565
00:44:34,054 --> 00:44:38,281
was saying that at the time
of the murder, that he was home...
566
00:44:39,526 --> 00:44:44,186
watching... I believe it was
a wrestling match on TV.
567
00:44:44,765 --> 00:44:49,299
And he said, "Me and my brother likes
wrestling matches. He was with me.
568
00:44:49,569 --> 00:44:52,306
"Randall, my brother,
was with me all night long.
569
00:44:52,406 --> 00:44:54,301
"He couldn't have done it."
570
00:44:54,841 --> 00:44:57,475
He was trying to cover for his brother.
571
00:44:58,879 --> 00:45:02,378
Later, as I recall, he changed...
572
00:45:03,350 --> 00:45:05,245
because he said:
573
00:45:05,919 --> 00:45:09,247
"If I get down there
and perjure myself...
574
00:45:09,456 --> 00:45:12,559
"there's nothing that they can do
because they've got the case."
575
00:45:12,659 --> 00:45:15,259
This is the way I think that he thought.
576
00:45:16,730 --> 00:45:18,765
"They know that my brother did it.
577
00:45:18,865 --> 00:45:22,970
"If I get up there and lie,
they are going to have me for perjury.
578
00:45:23,070 --> 00:45:26,640
"I'll be in the penitentiary with him,
and it ain't going to do any good...
579
00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:30,143
"so I just ain't going to testify.
I ain't gonna say nothing."
580
00:45:30,243 --> 00:45:33,435
So he backed off
of his story completely...
581
00:45:35,082 --> 00:45:37,773
and Adams was left
without any witnesses.
582
00:45:43,924 --> 00:45:47,361
Her in-court testimony
and her original statement...
583
00:45:47,461 --> 00:45:48,929
which should be the best.
584
00:45:49,029 --> 00:45:51,632
You're talking 15 to 20 minutes
after the killing.
585
00:45:51,732 --> 00:45:54,765
Should be the best eyewitness
testimony she's got.
586
00:45:55,869 --> 00:45:58,503
It doesn't match. Doesn't match at all.
587
00:46:16,189 --> 00:46:18,325
In court, she testified...
588
00:46:18,425 --> 00:46:21,617
he got out of the car,
she got out of the car.
589
00:46:21,928 --> 00:46:25,359
She positioned herself
at the back of the automobile.
590
00:46:38,945 --> 00:46:42,444
Her original statement,
15 minutes after the killing...
591
00:46:42,649 --> 00:46:45,252
"a fur-lined collar on the killer."
592
00:46:45,352 --> 00:46:49,454
In court,
"It might have been bushy hair."
593
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:53,326
The kid testified
that I had a Levi jacket on...
594
00:46:53,426 --> 00:46:56,963
which is the same type collar,
basically the same as this.
595
00:46:57,063 --> 00:47:00,934
He testified at pretrial
that he had a fur-lined parka.
596
00:47:01,034 --> 00:47:03,168
She's telling you who killed the man.
597
00:47:03,403 --> 00:47:06,697
One person in the car
with the fur-lined collar.
598
00:47:18,051 --> 00:47:21,521
Very convenient that the driver
happened to have bushy hair.
599
00:47:21,621 --> 00:47:24,891
All she's got to do
is look at a picture they took of me.
600
00:47:24,991 --> 00:47:27,194
But that is not her original statement.
601
00:47:27,294 --> 00:47:31,225
It's a hell of a big difference
from "fur-lined collar" to "bushy hair."
602
00:47:32,165 --> 00:47:33,491
It's crazy.
603
00:47:37,103 --> 00:47:39,539
She went through
two weeks Internal Affairs...
604
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:41,908
when she comes out,
her testimony changes.
605
00:47:42,008 --> 00:47:45,278
She goes in saying one thing,
she comes out saying another.
606
00:47:45,378 --> 00:47:47,080
Something happened. What?
607
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:50,144
"We refreshed her memory."
608
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:59,926
Friday afternoon,
I think it was Good Friday...
609
00:48:00,026 --> 00:48:02,996
we came back in the courtroom
that afternoon...
610
00:48:03,096 --> 00:48:05,766
and we were sort of elated
because we thought...
611
00:48:05,866 --> 00:48:07,761
"He's gonna walk."
612
00:48:08,602 --> 00:48:10,871
And there's nothing really
in that evidence.
613
00:48:10,971 --> 00:48:14,374
There's just little David Harris,
and nobody believes him.
614
00:48:14,474 --> 00:48:17,544
And so we were very optimistic
about his chances...
615
00:48:17,644 --> 00:48:19,279
until we walked into the courtroom...
616
00:48:19,379 --> 00:48:22,549
and here were all these people
standing in front of the bench.
617
00:48:22,649 --> 00:48:24,180
Three of them, anyway.
618
00:48:24,284 --> 00:48:27,351
They were taking the oath
to be sworn as witnesses.
619
00:48:28,355 --> 00:48:32,184
Mrs. Miller got on the stand
that last afternoon.
620
00:48:32,592 --> 00:48:36,663
And she said,
"That's the man, I saw that man!
621
00:48:36,763 --> 00:48:40,200
"I saw Randall Adams' face
just right after..."
622
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:44,271
She said, "I saw the gun
sticking out of the car...
623
00:48:44,371 --> 00:48:48,308
"when he shot that police officer.
And that's the man."
624
00:48:48,408 --> 00:48:50,911
And she waved her finger
right toward Randall Adams.
625
00:48:51,011 --> 00:48:53,475
She's the one that got him convicted.
626
00:48:54,447 --> 00:48:57,384
When I was a kid,
I used to want to be a detective...
627
00:48:57,484 --> 00:49:00,312
because I used to watch
all the detective shows on TV.
628
00:49:04,090 --> 00:49:07,987
When I was a kid they used to show
these movies with Boston Blackie...
629
00:49:12,198 --> 00:49:14,298
and he always had a woman with him.
630
00:49:15,802 --> 00:49:18,538
I wanted to be a wife of a detective
or be a detective...
631
00:49:18,638 --> 00:49:20,863
so I always watched detective stories.
632
00:49:25,178 --> 00:49:28,515
I'm always looking because
I never know what might come up.
633
00:49:28,615 --> 00:49:30,016
Or how I could help.
634
00:49:30,116 --> 00:49:33,376
I like to help in situations like that.
635
00:49:34,054 --> 00:49:35,380
I really do.
636
00:49:39,125 --> 00:49:41,328
It's always happening to me,
everywhere I go...
637
00:49:41,428 --> 00:49:44,764
lots of times there's killings
or anything.
638
00:49:44,864 --> 00:49:47,055
Even around my house. Wherever.
639
00:49:47,267 --> 00:49:51,836
I'm always looking or getting involved,
to find out who did it, what's going on.
640
00:49:59,913 --> 00:50:01,381
I listen to people.
641
00:50:01,481 --> 00:50:05,242
And I'm always trying to decide
who's lying, or who killed who...
642
00:50:05,852 --> 00:50:08,680
before the police do.
See if I can beat them.
643
00:50:09,422 --> 00:50:10,611
Yeah.
644
00:50:23,069 --> 00:50:26,864
I was working at a gas station.
My husband and I both.
645
00:50:28,742 --> 00:50:31,206
We weren't getting along well at all.
646
00:50:32,112 --> 00:50:34,047
We were arguing back and forth.
647
00:50:34,147 --> 00:50:38,418
We didn't wanna go home, because
we'd rather talk it out in the car...
648
00:50:38,518 --> 00:50:40,220
than go home with the kids and fight.
649
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,953
Had to listen to them, too.
650
00:50:42,555 --> 00:50:46,521
So we were really arguing,
and decided to get something to eat.
651
00:50:47,427 --> 00:50:50,664
About that time,
a police came out of a restaurant...
652
00:50:50,764 --> 00:50:52,898
on the right hand side of the road...
653
00:50:53,533 --> 00:50:56,566
and he went to pull the man over.
654
00:51:04,944 --> 00:51:08,113
She turned around.
She was looking hard. She looked.
655
00:51:09,315 --> 00:51:11,952
I didn't think she seen the guy,
but she did.
656
00:51:12,052 --> 00:51:15,588
Because I said, "What you looking at?"
I knew something had went wrong.
657
00:51:15,688 --> 00:51:17,913
She said, "You just shut up and drive."
658
00:51:20,326 --> 00:51:24,155
And I kept telling my husband:
"Slow down so I can see."
659
00:51:24,497 --> 00:51:27,434
He said, "Come on,
we're getting out of here.
660
00:51:27,534 --> 00:51:30,897
"You're too nosy.
You don't even know what's going on."
661
00:51:32,906 --> 00:51:37,042
I had no idea that somebody
was gonna get killed or shot.
662
00:51:37,677 --> 00:51:39,344
So I just drove on.
663
00:51:42,415 --> 00:51:46,186
He was one of these kind
that didn't like getting involved.
664
00:51:46,286 --> 00:51:50,286
He wanted to go on. He told me
to shut up and turn around. Don't look.
665
00:51:50,757 --> 00:51:53,084
I turned around and looked anyway.
666
00:51:58,398 --> 00:52:02,796
So we heard something,
like backfire or firecrackers.
667
00:52:03,503 --> 00:52:06,506
And so we drove over the bridge,
and I got to thinking.
668
00:52:06,606 --> 00:52:10,537
I said: "Em, there're no firecrackers
this time of the year."
669
00:52:14,881 --> 00:52:16,416
I was thinking to myself:
670
00:52:16,516 --> 00:52:20,208
"That couldn't be somebody shooting."
671
00:52:24,591 --> 00:52:27,360
It was real dark, and it was cold.
672
00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:29,753
It was hard to see in that car.
673
00:52:30,396 --> 00:52:34,555
But his window was down.
The driver's window was down.
674
00:52:35,802 --> 00:52:37,867
This is how I got such a good look.
675
00:52:45,378 --> 00:52:47,881
I really couldn't see anything inside.
676
00:52:47,981 --> 00:52:51,785
It was kind of... shadows on the window
and stuff.
677
00:52:51,885 --> 00:52:55,588
But when he rolled down the window,
what made his face stand out so.
678
00:52:55,688 --> 00:52:57,480
The car was dark blue.
679
00:53:01,961 --> 00:53:05,565
He had a beard, mustache...
680
00:53:05,665 --> 00:53:07,765
kind of dishwater-blond hair.
681
00:53:09,969 --> 00:53:13,969
But, like I said, when he was in court,
he sure looked a lot different.
682
00:53:15,475 --> 00:53:19,236
All I could just tell by this and this,
that it was him.
683
00:53:22,282 --> 00:53:25,952
I knew that there was
some shots over there.
684
00:53:26,052 --> 00:53:28,188
But I didn't want to be
involved in it...
685
00:53:28,288 --> 00:53:30,890
because West Dallas
is a high-crime neighborhood.
686
00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:32,258
One of the biggest.
687
00:53:32,358 --> 00:53:34,753
He was more scared of it than I was.
688
00:53:35,795 --> 00:53:38,665
But when you have
black people like that...
689
00:53:38,765 --> 00:53:41,501
they don't like
getting involved in nothing.
690
00:53:41,601 --> 00:53:43,236
That's just common.
691
00:53:43,336 --> 00:53:47,097
Like here, nobody wants
to see nothing or hear nothing.
692
00:53:47,774 --> 00:53:50,443
And they'll stay completely
in the background.
693
00:53:50,543 --> 00:53:53,179
That's why they were having
such a hard time there...
694
00:53:53,279 --> 00:53:55,682
finding anybody that would come forward.
695
00:53:55,782 --> 00:53:58,314
Because it was in
a totally black neighborhood.
696
00:54:02,322 --> 00:54:07,221
She believe in, see somebody done
something wrong she should tell it.
697
00:54:08,161 --> 00:54:10,352
'Cause she told on me...
698
00:54:15,068 --> 00:54:16,792
a couple of times...
699
00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:20,766
that I was hauling drugs out of El Paso.
700
00:54:21,441 --> 00:54:25,008
Called the sheriff down there,
going to make me open my trunk.
701
00:54:26,446 --> 00:54:29,672
So I ended up opening it,
but there was nothing in it.
702
00:54:35,388 --> 00:54:36,850
Good grief.
703
00:54:37,557 --> 00:54:41,557
She's a ho, but she find out
you done something, she turn you in.
704
00:54:48,501 --> 00:54:51,638
Mrs. Miller had testified
at the trial...
705
00:54:51,738 --> 00:54:55,141
that she had gotten off early from her
gas station job...
706
00:54:55,241 --> 00:54:59,012
and gone down to pick up her husband
to help him with the bookwork.
707
00:54:59,112 --> 00:55:02,515
We found out that she was not doing
any bookkeeping for that station...
708
00:55:02,615 --> 00:55:06,319
because she had been fired
from her job two weeks earlier...
709
00:55:06,419 --> 00:55:08,610
for till-tapping, for stealing.
710
00:55:09,555 --> 00:55:13,059
The reason that they were
talking to the police at all...
711
00:55:13,159 --> 00:55:16,963
was that there'd been a three-day
running knife fight in their apartment.
712
00:55:17,063 --> 00:55:18,932
And they were all booked...
713
00:55:19,032 --> 00:55:21,901
for disorderly
and drunk behavior in there...
714
00:55:22,001 --> 00:55:25,659
including assault with knives,
and all kinds of stuff.
715
00:55:25,838 --> 00:55:29,876
When they were at the police station,
they suddenly decided to volunteer...
716
00:55:29,976 --> 00:55:32,412
all this information
about what they had seen...
717
00:55:32,512 --> 00:55:35,044
about the police officer's killing.
718
00:55:36,516 --> 00:55:38,684
A woman called me at my home...
719
00:55:39,018 --> 00:55:40,653
and said that she knew this woman...
720
00:55:40,753 --> 00:55:44,090
who had testified and identified
Randall Adams from a passing vehicle.
721
00:55:44,190 --> 00:55:46,551
This woman had never told the truth
in her life.
722
00:55:51,164 --> 00:55:54,734
She also told me that she had tried
to call the D.A. During the trial...
723
00:55:54,834 --> 00:55:58,171
and give this evidence
that this woman was not believable.
724
00:55:58,271 --> 00:56:02,430
If their case hinged on this testimony,
this was not believable testimony.
725
00:56:02,542 --> 00:56:05,575
They were scum. They were just...
726
00:56:08,481 --> 00:56:09,782
actually scum.
727
00:56:09,882 --> 00:56:12,642
He was a black man
and she was a white woman.
728
00:56:12,885 --> 00:56:15,178
He came to work the day after.
729
00:56:16,322 --> 00:56:20,627
He told me about the policeman
that had gotten shot the night before.
730
00:56:20,727 --> 00:56:22,862
And I hadn't heard anything about it.
731
00:56:22,962 --> 00:56:26,154
And I thought
it was another one of these stories.
732
00:56:26,999 --> 00:56:29,394
And he brings in these newspapers...
733
00:56:29,602 --> 00:56:34,671
and he says he didn't see a thing.
He couldn't see nothing, it was dark.
734
00:56:35,074 --> 00:56:37,970
Wheels started rolling
in his head about money.
735
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,111
That's when he got the idea.
736
00:56:44,283 --> 00:56:46,152
Let me put it in his words.
737
00:56:46,252 --> 00:56:49,216
For enough money, he would testify...
738
00:56:49,422 --> 00:56:51,852
to what they wanted him to say.
739
00:56:52,024 --> 00:56:54,927
He would say anything
they wanted him to say.
740
00:56:55,027 --> 00:56:58,754
Or he would see anything
that they wanted him to see.
741
00:56:59,399 --> 00:57:01,066
Those were his words.
742
00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:07,640
I was shocked that he did go ahead...
743
00:57:07,740 --> 00:57:11,137
and get up and tell
that he saw the actual shooting...
744
00:57:12,612 --> 00:57:15,610
and recognized the boy. Identified him.
745
00:57:16,849 --> 00:57:20,576
That's when I called Dennis White.
I told him, "That man's lying."
746
00:57:22,755 --> 00:57:25,947
Nobody has that good of an eyesight.
747
00:57:30,763 --> 00:57:34,490
From where the policeman was shot
and from where they were at...
748
00:57:36,836 --> 00:57:39,971
I doubt if you could have
even seen them with binoculars.
749
00:57:44,110 --> 00:57:45,743
I'm a salesman.
750
00:57:45,945 --> 00:57:48,705
And you develop
something like total recall.
751
00:57:49,715 --> 00:57:52,850
I don't forget places, things...
752
00:57:54,287 --> 00:57:55,613
or streets.
753
00:57:56,322 --> 00:57:59,158
Because it's a habit,
something I just picked up.
754
00:57:59,258 --> 00:58:02,894
I just stare intensely at people
and try to figure them out.
755
00:58:04,464 --> 00:58:07,724
Being nosy, I just stare.
756
00:58:10,603 --> 00:58:13,203
I was leaving the Plush Pub one night...
757
00:58:13,873 --> 00:58:18,806
driving a 1977 Cadillac...
758
00:58:19,779 --> 00:58:21,810
heading west on Hampton.
759
00:58:22,014 --> 00:58:25,513
I noticed an officer had
two individuals pulled over...
760
00:58:25,785 --> 00:58:28,510
to the curb in a blue...
761
00:58:28,921 --> 00:58:31,021
some type of vehicle.
762
00:58:31,891 --> 00:58:34,025
It was a blue...
763
00:58:35,728 --> 00:58:39,386
It was a blue Ford.
It was a blue something.
764
00:58:42,668 --> 00:58:46,472
The driver, I think, had long blond hair
and a moustache.
765
00:58:46,572 --> 00:58:49,639
And the other one
didn't have no hairs on his face.
766
00:58:54,146 --> 00:58:57,850
A person that is white
going through that area at night...
767
00:58:57,950 --> 00:59:01,517
he's a sore thumb,
he stick out for the first reason.
768
00:59:01,988 --> 00:59:05,157
And if they don't look right,
they're gonna stop you.
769
00:59:08,060 --> 00:59:10,956
The officer,
he walked up to the vehicle.
770
00:59:12,598 --> 00:59:14,133
His car was behind...
771
00:59:14,233 --> 00:59:16,436
I don't know
if it was behind or in front...
772
00:59:16,536 --> 00:59:20,194
but I know he had him pulled over,
and he was up to the car.
773
00:59:21,207 --> 00:59:24,171
I think he was up to the car.
Let me think.
774
00:59:24,677 --> 00:59:26,936
Yeah, he was up to the car.
775
00:59:27,580 --> 00:59:30,749
As we was coming by
he had to have been up to the car.
776
00:59:38,658 --> 00:59:41,461
I didn't see no bullet.
I didn't see no gunfire.
777
00:59:41,561 --> 00:59:43,422
Because I went on.
778
00:59:58,344 --> 01:00:02,571
We have three people
that testified and identified him...
779
01:00:02,848 --> 01:00:06,984
positively as being the driver
at the time that Wood was walking...
780
01:00:07,153 --> 01:00:08,877
right beside the car.
781
01:00:09,288 --> 01:00:12,792
So we know that he was the driver
from the witnesses...
782
01:00:12,892 --> 01:00:14,427
and we also know...
783
01:00:14,527 --> 01:00:17,719
that it was the driver
that shot Officer Wood...
784
01:00:17,964 --> 01:00:19,756
coming from his partner.
785
01:00:20,466 --> 01:00:22,468
We couldn't have made a case...
786
01:00:22,568 --> 01:00:25,538
with the voluntary statement
that we got from Adams.
787
01:00:25,638 --> 01:00:27,965
We had to rely on witnesses.
788
01:00:28,341 --> 01:00:30,202
And this is what we did.
789
01:00:31,310 --> 01:00:35,002
I always tried very hard,
every judge I know of does...
790
01:00:35,214 --> 01:00:37,609
to not show emotion on the bench.
791
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:40,386
The reason, if you do show emotion...
792
01:00:40,486 --> 01:00:44,281
the jury might take it that
you're favoring one side or another.
793
01:00:44,624 --> 01:00:49,124
So you try to remain passive,
emotionless, objective.
794
01:00:49,295 --> 01:00:52,098
I do have to admit
that in the Adams case...
795
01:00:52,198 --> 01:00:54,033
and I've never really said this...
796
01:00:54,133 --> 01:00:57,803
Doug Mulder's final argument
was one I'd never heard before.
797
01:00:57,903 --> 01:01:00,840
About the "thin blue line" of police...
798
01:01:00,940 --> 01:01:03,734
that separated the public from anarchy.
799
01:01:04,243 --> 01:01:08,314
I have to concede that there
my eyes kind of welled up...
800
01:01:08,414 --> 01:01:09,982
when I heard that.
801
01:01:10,082 --> 01:01:13,581
It did get to me emotionally,
but I don't think I showed it.
802
01:01:36,008 --> 01:01:37,903
In death penalty cases...
803
01:01:38,511 --> 01:01:41,180
we have a question,
or we did at the time...
804
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,984
of whether or not that person
is of a dangerous mentality...
805
01:01:45,084 --> 01:01:47,878
and might be expected
to commit other crimes.
806
01:01:48,854 --> 01:01:50,783
To answer that question...
807
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:55,795
the Dallas District Attorney sends
psychiatrists to the defendant's cell...
808
01:01:55,895 --> 01:01:58,030
to discover
whether he is without remorse...
809
01:01:58,130 --> 01:02:01,959
and therefore is a dangerous
and psychopathic personality.
810
01:02:02,268 --> 01:02:04,737
Of course,
in the instance of a person...
811
01:02:04,837 --> 01:02:09,303
who did not commit the crime,
they're not going to show remorse.
812
01:02:09,542 --> 01:02:12,678
There were two psychiatrists
that appeared again and again.
813
01:02:12,778 --> 01:02:15,913
Holbrook and Grigson,
the "Killer Shrinks."
814
01:02:16,716 --> 01:02:21,148
There was certain criticism
directed against these two people...
815
01:02:24,090 --> 01:02:27,593
because, in effect, whenever they
showed up, the purpose of their visit...
816
01:02:27,693 --> 01:02:29,884
was to kill the defendant.
817
01:02:30,529 --> 01:02:34,460
It was April 15th, tax day.
818
01:02:35,768 --> 01:02:38,604
I think I was filling out
my taxes at the time.
819
01:02:38,704 --> 01:02:40,531
Afraid I might be late.
820
01:02:42,108 --> 01:02:44,299
A guard walks up to the door...
821
01:02:44,443 --> 01:02:48,044
tells me, "There's someone out here
who wants to talk to you."
822
01:02:49,882 --> 01:02:52,251
I ask him who it was.
He said he didn't know...
823
01:02:52,351 --> 01:02:55,488
but the court ordered me to talk
to him. I said, "All right."
824
01:02:55,588 --> 01:02:59,417
And here come this real tall,
ostrich-looking dude.
825
01:02:59,892 --> 01:03:03,152
He introduced himself as Dr. Grigson.
826
01:03:04,363 --> 01:03:07,400
He pulled a pad out
of his coat pocket...
827
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:09,998
that had a line drawn across it.
828
01:03:11,704 --> 01:03:14,429
On this pad, on the upper half...
829
01:03:14,607 --> 01:03:17,105
he had six images.
830
01:03:17,710 --> 01:03:20,546
I will say a box, a square,
a circle with a diamond in it.
831
01:03:20,646 --> 01:03:23,314
I don't... It's been awhile.
832
01:03:24,283 --> 01:03:28,180
He slides this piece of paper across
to me and he hands me a pencil.
833
01:03:28,287 --> 01:03:31,081
He says,
"I'm going to get a cup of coffee.
834
01:03:31,323 --> 01:03:34,083
"Please copy
what's on this piece of paper."
835
01:03:36,996 --> 01:03:39,790
I'm looking at this man.
836
01:03:40,566 --> 01:03:43,936
I said, "What? You want it copied
just the same way you did?
837
01:03:44,036 --> 01:03:47,139
"Or you want me to change them
around? What do you want me to do?"
838
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:49,842
He said, "Just do
whatever you think you want to do."
839
01:03:49,942 --> 01:03:51,268
And he left.
840
01:03:52,478 --> 01:03:55,314
So on the bottom half
of this piece of paper...
841
01:03:55,414 --> 01:03:58,484
I made my boxes and X's...
842
01:03:58,584 --> 01:04:01,275
and zeros with diamonds in it.
Exactly like his.
843
01:04:04,323 --> 01:04:05,991
He asked me...
844
01:04:06,091 --> 01:04:10,250
"What's the meaning of
'A rolling stone gathers no moss?"'
845
01:04:11,230 --> 01:04:13,159
I'm looking at this man.
846
01:04:13,299 --> 01:04:16,602
I said, "Are you kidding? Is this
a joke? What are you doing?"
847
01:04:16,702 --> 01:04:20,497
He said, "No, I really want to know
your answer to that question."
848
01:04:21,674 --> 01:04:24,610
I said, well,
"A rolling stone gathers no moss."
849
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:26,844
I said, "To me...
850
01:04:27,012 --> 01:04:31,342
"it would represent that a person
that doesn't stand still long enough...
851
01:04:31,851 --> 01:04:34,485
"it's kind of hard for people
to cling to him.
852
01:04:34,587 --> 01:04:38,450
"If he keeps moving around,
it's hard to get close to him."
853
01:04:38,891 --> 01:04:40,490
He shook his head.
854
01:04:41,060 --> 01:04:44,923
He said, "What about 'A bird in
the hand is worth two in the bush"'?
855
01:04:45,531 --> 01:04:49,468
I said, "If you have a hold of
something, why give it up...
856
01:04:49,568 --> 01:04:52,738
"for a chance of getting something
that might be a little better?
857
01:04:52,838 --> 01:04:56,408
"It doesn't make sense. You've got
something good, why let go of it?
858
01:04:56,508 --> 01:04:58,878
"If you can get the other one,
get it if you can...
859
01:04:58,978 --> 01:05:02,705
"but don't let go of what you got
to try to get something else."
860
01:05:03,215 --> 01:05:06,018
He asked about my family.
861
01:05:06,118 --> 01:05:08,343
He asked about my background.
862
01:05:09,688 --> 01:05:11,150
And he left.
863
01:05:12,324 --> 01:05:15,288
Total time we had talked,
maybe 15, 20 minutes.
864
01:05:17,963 --> 01:05:22,401
Dr. Grigson was up there testifying
he would commit violent crimes...
865
01:05:22,501 --> 01:05:24,794
in the future if he was released.
866
01:05:24,904 --> 01:05:29,241
Grigson is known as "Dr. Death"
because he always testifies that way.
867
01:05:29,341 --> 01:05:31,343
In about 99% of the trials...
868
01:05:31,443 --> 01:05:34,647
that he's been a witness for the
prosecution, he always testifies...
869
01:05:34,747 --> 01:05:38,212
that they will commit
violent crimes in the future.
870
01:05:38,884 --> 01:05:42,485
You can't tell what
somebody's gonna do years from now.
871
01:05:42,888 --> 01:05:44,214
Not really.
872
01:05:45,424 --> 01:05:48,684
Except based on your past record,
which anybody can do.
873
01:05:53,198 --> 01:05:55,525
Randall never had any prior record.
874
01:05:55,968 --> 01:05:59,899
And as far as we know, he never had
any history of violence whatever.
875
01:06:01,974 --> 01:06:05,075
Grigson testified for...
876
01:06:05,644 --> 01:06:08,870
two and a half hours
about all these degrees he's got.
877
01:06:09,615 --> 01:06:12,978
He's been here, and he's been there,
and he's studied here.
878
01:06:13,852 --> 01:06:16,043
He called me Charlie Manson.
879
01:06:16,221 --> 01:06:18,616
He called me Adolf Hitler.
880
01:06:18,991 --> 01:06:21,557
He said I'm the type of personality...
881
01:06:21,994 --> 01:06:25,027
that can work all day
and creep all night.
882
01:06:26,932 --> 01:06:29,396
He testified, Grigson...
883
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,541
that the future seriousness...
884
01:06:37,776 --> 01:06:39,637
of my mental state...
885
01:06:40,145 --> 01:06:42,381
would be such
that if they released me...
886
01:06:42,481 --> 01:06:45,317
I would go crazy and
probably butcher half of Dallas County.
887
01:06:45,417 --> 01:06:48,245
Even though he talked to me
15 minutes...
888
01:06:48,654 --> 01:06:52,458
I have no prior convictions,
no prior arrests...
889
01:06:52,558 --> 01:06:55,294
I was nonviolent for 28 years.
890
01:06:55,394 --> 01:06:56,729
On one instance...
891
01:06:56,829 --> 01:07:00,055
and that's saying if I did this,
which I didn't...
892
01:07:00,399 --> 01:07:04,436
he's stating that, that's enough...
For the rest of my life, watch me.
893
01:07:04,536 --> 01:07:08,570
Don't ever turn your back on me.
And he talked to me 15 minutes.
894
01:07:10,976 --> 01:07:12,200
He's crazy.
895
01:07:16,548 --> 01:07:19,852
You can understand why a man
might steal if he needs money...
896
01:07:19,952 --> 01:07:22,780
to put food on the table.
897
01:07:23,122 --> 01:07:26,292
I can understand why a 17-year-old
boy who doesn't have a car...
898
01:07:26,392 --> 01:07:28,227
would steal one to ride around in.
899
01:07:28,327 --> 01:07:31,553
I can understand
why the heroin addict needs heroin.
900
01:07:31,797 --> 01:07:35,990
But it's very hard to understand
why anybody has to kill a police officer.
901
01:07:36,201 --> 01:07:38,198
It just doesn't have to be.
902
01:07:48,981 --> 01:07:51,450
When I'm asleep
and I close my eyes and think...
903
01:07:51,550 --> 01:07:52,818
"Why would he do it?
904
01:07:52,918 --> 01:07:55,354
"He had no background
that would lead to murder...
905
01:07:55,454 --> 01:07:57,656
"no reason to commit a murder."
906
01:07:57,756 --> 01:08:00,652
And I look at the facts
of the case and say...
907
01:08:01,126 --> 01:08:04,396
David Harris knew the car was stolen,
knew the guns were there...
908
01:08:04,496 --> 01:08:05,965
knew the guns were stolen...
909
01:08:06,065 --> 01:08:08,233
was on a crime spree...
910
01:08:08,434 --> 01:08:12,071
had had a criminal record prior to
stealing this car and these guns.
911
01:08:12,171 --> 01:08:14,473
He was the one
that wanted to commit the murder...
912
01:08:14,573 --> 01:08:15,874
and get away from the scene.
913
01:08:15,974 --> 01:08:18,410
He was the one that,
after the murder was committed...
914
01:08:18,510 --> 01:08:21,873
went right back home
and bragged about it to his friends.
915
01:08:23,482 --> 01:08:25,673
I looked at all the evidence...
916
01:08:26,018 --> 01:08:29,676
and I found that I believed
that David Harris committed murder.
917
01:08:30,856 --> 01:08:33,422
The jury looked at the same evidence...
918
01:08:33,592 --> 01:08:36,590
and found they believed that
Randall Adams committed murder.
919
01:08:36,795 --> 01:08:39,225
And it was their verdict that counted.
920
01:09:04,189 --> 01:09:05,913
You have a D. A...
921
01:09:07,526 --> 01:09:09,628
he doesn't talk about...
922
01:09:09,728 --> 01:09:12,988
when they convict you
or how they convict you...
923
01:09:14,133 --> 01:09:17,325
he's talking about
how he's going to kill you.
924
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:20,439
He don't give a damn if you're innocent.
925
01:09:20,539 --> 01:09:24,140
He don't give a damn if you're guilty.
He's talking about killing you.
926
01:09:31,517 --> 01:09:34,413
You get numb. You get...
927
01:09:35,554 --> 01:09:39,713
It's like a bad dream. You want
to wake up, but you can't do it.
928
01:09:44,463 --> 01:09:48,033
Fifteen times, 20 times a day,
I hear this same story...
929
01:09:48,133 --> 01:09:50,961
about what happens
when a man is electrocuted.
930
01:09:53,205 --> 01:09:55,007
His eyeballs pop out.
931
01:09:55,107 --> 01:09:56,909
His fingernails pop out.
932
01:09:57,009 --> 01:09:58,733
His toenails pop out.
933
01:09:58,977 --> 01:10:01,645
He bleeds out of every orifice he's got.
934
01:10:08,187 --> 01:10:09,786
They don't care...
935
01:10:11,390 --> 01:10:12,921
They don't care.
936
01:10:14,226 --> 01:10:17,396
All they want to do is talk about
how they're going to kill you.
937
01:10:17,496 --> 01:10:21,063
That's the only thing that they cared
about and talked about.
938
01:10:23,268 --> 01:10:25,800
At that point,
that's all they're wanting.
939
01:10:31,343 --> 01:10:34,774
I didn't have any idea
what happened to him.
940
01:10:36,515 --> 01:10:38,876
After I testified, I was gone.
941
01:10:40,085 --> 01:10:43,812
I never really concerned myself with it.
942
01:10:48,860 --> 01:10:51,551
Maybe I didn't want to know.
I don't know.
943
01:10:52,698 --> 01:10:55,300
I didn't have any interest in knowing...
944
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,068
otherwise I might have tried
to find out.
945
01:11:01,807 --> 01:11:03,775
Dennis filed the motion
for a new trial...
946
01:11:03,875 --> 01:11:06,044
then we filed an amended motion
for a new trial.
947
01:11:06,144 --> 01:11:09,108
About 20 days later,
we were to have a hearing on it.
948
01:11:09,748 --> 01:11:12,751
Both Robert Miller and his wife
testified there.
949
01:11:12,851 --> 01:11:14,853
But we could not bring out the fact...
950
01:11:14,953 --> 01:11:18,557
that they had said that they were
gonna get that reward money...
951
01:11:18,657 --> 01:11:21,860
and that they didn't care
whether they saw anything or not...
952
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,651
but their car was too steamed up.
953
01:11:25,797 --> 01:11:27,833
We were not allowed
to get any of that in...
954
01:11:27,933 --> 01:11:30,469
because it was held
that it was impeaching testimony...
955
01:11:30,569 --> 01:11:32,704
and therefore it came too late.
956
01:11:32,804 --> 01:11:35,666
We kept running into blank walls.
957
01:11:37,909 --> 01:11:40,412
A reporter
from the Dallas Morning News...
958
01:11:40,512 --> 01:11:44,773
discovered that one week
after the trial was over with...
959
01:11:45,450 --> 01:11:49,121
the daughter of this woman
had a robbery case in this court.
960
01:11:49,221 --> 01:11:50,756
She offered her testimony...
961
01:11:50,856 --> 01:11:54,193
at a time when her daughter
was in danger of going to jail for life...
962
01:11:54,293 --> 01:11:56,428
and got her daughter out of jail.
963
01:11:56,528 --> 01:11:58,330
How can you believe her...
964
01:11:58,430 --> 01:12:01,963
when the very next week
the same judge dismisses that case?
965
01:12:05,237 --> 01:12:08,840
The Millers are the kind of people
that would do anything...
966
01:12:08,940 --> 01:12:11,438
if there was something to be gained...
967
01:12:11,943 --> 01:12:15,681
such as her daughter not being sent
to the penitentiary for armed robbery...
968
01:12:15,781 --> 01:12:17,448
or for money.
969
01:12:18,116 --> 01:12:22,154
When we went to court that day,
the District Attorney was hard-nosed.
970
01:12:22,254 --> 01:12:24,786
Wouldn't let me answer any questions.
971
01:12:25,190 --> 01:12:28,826
He'd ask me questions,
but then he'd cut me off real short.
972
01:12:29,895 --> 01:12:32,598
And that's when he said something
about my big fat nose.
973
01:12:32,698 --> 01:12:35,167
If I'd kept my big fat nose
out of their business...
974
01:12:35,267 --> 01:12:37,492
the Millers would be better off.
975
01:12:39,471 --> 01:12:41,707
When I started to leave
out of the courtroom...
976
01:12:41,807 --> 01:12:44,209
he started laughing, like:
977
01:12:44,309 --> 01:12:46,745
"Didn't do you any good to get up here."
978
01:12:46,845 --> 01:12:49,775
It really didn't.
Didn't help the guy at all.
979
01:12:57,656 --> 01:12:59,091
To the best of my recollection...
980
01:12:59,191 --> 01:13:01,493
the brief conversations
I have had with Mr. Adams...
981
01:13:01,593 --> 01:13:03,262
and they have been brief...
982
01:13:03,362 --> 01:13:07,089
I don't even recall ever asking him,
or my having told me...
983
01:13:07,499 --> 01:13:09,257
that he did not do it.
984
01:13:10,969 --> 01:13:14,434
Because, for my purposes,
representing him on appeal...
985
01:13:15,140 --> 01:13:17,035
it's totally irrelevant.
986
01:13:20,645 --> 01:13:23,473
When the Court of Criminal Appeals
of Texas...
987
01:13:24,983 --> 01:13:29,221
voted 9-0 against us,
I was a little upset about that.
988
01:13:29,321 --> 01:13:31,323
I felt we, A: Should have won...
989
01:13:31,423 --> 01:13:33,859
B: Certainly shouldn't have been
slapped so hard...
990
01:13:33,959 --> 01:13:36,252
with the unanimous decision against us.
991
01:13:38,230 --> 01:13:41,867
I was with my family
in an ice-cream parlor...
992
01:13:41,967 --> 01:13:45,762
and the judge and his family
happened to come at the same time.
993
01:13:46,104 --> 01:13:49,933
And he came over to me
and made the comment...
994
01:13:51,576 --> 01:13:55,940
"I see where the Court of Criminal
Appeals gave me an 'A'...
995
01:13:56,114 --> 01:13:57,906
"in the Adams case."
996
01:13:58,083 --> 01:14:00,252
Our highest state appellate court...
997
01:14:00,352 --> 01:14:04,613
the Court of Criminal Appeals
in Austin affirmed the case, 9-0.
998
01:14:05,524 --> 01:14:08,750
Then it was reversed by the
United States Supreme Court, 8-1...
999
01:14:10,362 --> 01:14:13,326
When the Appellate Court
reverses a case...
1000
01:14:13,765 --> 01:14:17,423
they are never saying
the trial judge was right or wrong.
1001
01:14:17,869 --> 01:14:20,629
They are saying
they disagree with the judge.
1002
01:14:21,673 --> 01:14:24,576
You can't, for instance,
in the Adams appeals...
1003
01:14:24,676 --> 01:14:28,647
say the appellate courts
were saying I was right or I was wrong.
1004
01:14:28,747 --> 01:14:31,973
After all, if in Austin...
1005
01:14:32,184 --> 01:14:35,220
in our state appeals court,
I was 9-0 correct...
1006
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,751
and in Washington, I was 1-8 incorrect.
1007
01:14:39,057 --> 01:14:42,127
If you tally all those votes,
I come out 10-8.
1008
01:14:42,227 --> 01:14:44,258
Yet the case was reversed.
1009
01:14:46,431 --> 01:14:51,227
Eight justices of the Supreme Court
were the first people to agree with me.
1010
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:56,041
They're the only people anywhere
that ever agreed about that statute...
1011
01:14:56,141 --> 01:14:58,809
were eight justices
of the Supreme Court.
1012
01:15:00,912 --> 01:15:05,515
The Dallas Morning News
had a very nice front-page story...
1013
01:15:06,284 --> 01:15:08,353
either the same day...
1014
01:15:08,453 --> 01:15:11,923
or the day after the reversal was
announced by the Supreme Court...
1015
01:15:12,023 --> 01:15:15,283
in which Henry Wade,
the District Attorney...
1016
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,451
vowed a retrial of Randall Dale Adams...
1017
01:15:19,130 --> 01:15:22,534
because there was no room
in his book for a cop-killer...
1018
01:15:22,634 --> 01:15:25,997
getting off with anything less
than the death penalty.
1019
01:15:26,738 --> 01:15:30,305
I took that to heart. I thought
I was going to get my chance.
1020
01:15:31,476 --> 01:15:35,168
For reasons
that were never really made public...
1021
01:15:36,314 --> 01:15:39,117
Mr. Wade requested
the governor to commute...
1022
01:15:39,217 --> 01:15:42,147
Mr. Adams' death penalty to life...
1023
01:15:42,921 --> 01:15:46,625
and that eliminated
the possibility of a retrial...
1024
01:15:46,725 --> 01:15:48,256
based on the reversal.
1025
01:15:50,595 --> 01:15:52,524
I was absolutely shocked.
1026
01:15:52,797 --> 01:15:54,266
I can't help but believe...
1027
01:15:54,366 --> 01:15:57,169
that some of the motivation
behind that decision...
1028
01:15:57,269 --> 01:15:58,959
was a fear that...
1029
01:15:59,571 --> 01:16:02,569
Adams may be vindicated at a retrial.
1030
01:16:03,542 --> 01:16:07,200
I just felt they prosecuted
the wrong person. I don't know why.
1031
01:16:07,712 --> 01:16:11,871
I felt that some policeman,
whether in Vidor or in Dallas...
1032
01:16:11,983 --> 01:16:16,788
made a decision to prosecute and set
the wheels of justice in motion...
1033
01:16:16,888 --> 01:16:20,625
in the wrong direction and they got
going so fast no one could stop them.
1034
01:16:20,725 --> 01:16:23,462
So I felt it was up to me
to stop them and I didn't.
1035
01:16:23,562 --> 01:16:27,666
I felt it was up to the Supreme Court
and they did what they could, but...
1036
01:16:27,766 --> 01:16:30,958
it's all gotten messed up
and derailed again.
1037
01:16:32,437 --> 01:16:37,131
Since his trial, I have given up
my practice of criminal law.
1038
01:16:40,345 --> 01:16:42,013
I have not had a jury trial...
1039
01:16:42,113 --> 01:16:45,183
since I heard the verdict
of this jury in this case...
1040
01:16:45,283 --> 01:16:47,508
and don't intend to.
1041
01:16:49,220 --> 01:16:50,755
I just feel like...
1042
01:16:50,855 --> 01:16:55,287
I'll let other people
handle these problems for a while.
1043
01:16:57,262 --> 01:17:01,057
Because if justice
can miscarry so badly...
1044
01:17:01,933 --> 01:17:04,067
I'd rather do something else.
1045
01:17:04,536 --> 01:17:08,069
Prosecutors in Dallas
have said for years...
1046
01:17:08,573 --> 01:17:11,367
"Any prosecutor can convict
a guilty man.
1047
01:17:11,843 --> 01:17:14,841
"It takes a great prosecutor
to convict an innocent man."
1048
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:20,619
To this day, I think Mr. Mulder...
1049
01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:25,583
believes that the Adams conviction
was one of his great victories...
1050
01:17:26,424 --> 01:17:31,084
probably because of some reservations
he has about Adams' guilt.
1051
01:17:37,068 --> 01:17:40,237
I got a call one morning,
a lady here in Vidor...
1052
01:17:40,472 --> 01:17:43,402
had been hit over the head
with a rolling pin...
1053
01:17:44,376 --> 01:17:47,943
and the attacker thought
she'd been knocked unconscious...
1054
01:17:48,079 --> 01:17:49,614
when, in reality, she wasn't.
1055
01:17:49,714 --> 01:17:52,781
And she recognized the attacker
to be David Harris.
1056
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,582
He voluntarily
came to the police station.
1057
01:17:59,491 --> 01:18:02,394
I told him,
"David, this girl knows who you are.
1058
01:18:02,494 --> 01:18:04,763
"I don't even have to tell you
I know the truth.
1059
01:18:04,863 --> 01:18:06,565
"You know I know the truth this time."
1060
01:18:06,665 --> 01:18:11,436
He said, "I was wrong.
I smoked marijuana, I was drinking.
1061
01:18:11,536 --> 01:18:14,573
"I don't know what got over me
but something just came over me."
1062
01:18:14,673 --> 01:18:18,741
But he forgot to mention one thing,
that he was only wearing underwear.
1063
01:18:21,246 --> 01:18:23,882
I felt as though
the attack was sexually oriented.
1064
01:18:23,982 --> 01:18:26,051
He never wanted to admit that...
1065
01:18:26,151 --> 01:18:29,354
and, as I recall,
he never really finally admitted it.
1066
01:18:29,454 --> 01:18:31,815
He'd just get
to where he wouldn't deny it.
1067
01:18:32,090 --> 01:18:34,656
He posted his bond and went to Germany.
1068
01:18:36,361 --> 01:18:39,197
We had a crime
with basically the same M.O. As his...
1069
01:18:39,297 --> 01:18:43,524
and so it led me to want to check
and see if he was in town.
1070
01:18:43,702 --> 01:18:46,738
I contacted
the Worldwide Military Locator...
1071
01:18:46,838 --> 01:18:49,207
to see if, through the military,
I could locate him.
1072
01:18:49,307 --> 01:18:52,533
I did, and found out
that he was in prison at the time.
1073
01:18:53,344 --> 01:18:55,146
He really didn't remember what happened.
1074
01:18:55,246 --> 01:18:57,315
He said he woke up in the stockade...
1075
01:18:57,415 --> 01:19:01,019
and he'd been told that he beat up
one of his ranking officers.
1076
01:19:01,119 --> 01:19:05,156
We had another occasion to have
a crime that fit his M.O. A lot...
1077
01:19:05,256 --> 01:19:08,159
so I started looking for him again,
and this time...
1078
01:19:08,259 --> 01:19:10,128
I found him in prison in California.
1079
01:19:10,228 --> 01:19:13,865
So I realized again that unfortunately,
he hadn't straightened up.
1080
01:19:13,965 --> 01:19:15,996
He was still having a lot of problems.
1081
01:19:24,409 --> 01:19:26,304
I was 16 years old.
1082
01:19:27,145 --> 01:19:31,475
I really didn't have no real dealings
with the court systems, etc.
1083
01:19:32,717 --> 01:19:35,112
Didn't know how they worked, really.
1084
01:19:35,253 --> 01:19:37,444
Didn't know much about the law.
1085
01:19:38,356 --> 01:19:39,887
Just a young, dumb kid.
1086
01:19:42,060 --> 01:19:45,697
Police give you the time of this
and the time this happened...
1087
01:19:45,797 --> 01:19:48,099
and you just correlate
from those events.
1088
01:19:48,199 --> 01:19:51,493
You just estimate from that event
what time it was.
1089
01:19:52,137 --> 01:19:53,634
You don't know.
1090
01:19:53,972 --> 01:19:55,764
You're taking a guess.
1091
01:19:57,709 --> 01:20:01,436
Police tell you, "It was 12:30
when this crime happened.
1092
01:20:07,318 --> 01:20:09,645
"What time did you leave the movie?"
1093
01:20:10,021 --> 01:20:12,689
"I know it was somewhere
around midnight.
1094
01:20:17,962 --> 01:20:20,198
"It might have been before then.
I don't know.
1095
01:20:20,298 --> 01:20:22,432
"I didn't have a watch on."
1096
01:20:33,978 --> 01:20:38,137
He went over my testimony with me
pretty extensively.
1097
01:20:39,751 --> 01:20:42,351
How I should answer certain questions...
1098
01:20:44,689 --> 01:20:46,057
things of this nature.
1099
01:20:46,157 --> 01:20:49,383
That's what you call
"coaching the witness."
1100
01:20:49,727 --> 01:20:54,227
Let's get this evidence in a spectrum
where it's going to be most effective.
1101
01:21:00,905 --> 01:21:04,973
At the time,
I didn't really ponder on it...
1102
01:21:10,281 --> 01:21:14,315
but he was deceiving the jury.
He wanted to deceive justice.
1103
01:21:14,586 --> 01:21:18,289
That's why I think
that statue with the scales...
1104
01:21:18,389 --> 01:21:21,854
Justice? What is she called?
I don't know what she's called.
1105
01:21:22,493 --> 01:21:24,388
She's got that blindfold on.
1106
01:21:25,063 --> 01:21:28,061
We don't see what goes on
behind the closed doors.
1107
01:21:29,334 --> 01:21:31,627
I had another woman in the car.
1108
01:21:32,437 --> 01:21:35,840
I didn't tell them about that.
My wife'd kill me.
1109
01:21:35,940 --> 01:21:40,311
She would've tore my head off if she
knew I was out with another woman.
1110
01:21:40,411 --> 01:21:42,169
Would you tell?
1111
01:21:42,947 --> 01:21:46,082
That's what happened.
I was trying to get her home.
1112
01:21:49,053 --> 01:21:51,517
The driver's side was down because...
1113
01:21:52,223 --> 01:21:55,688
the lady was a little sick.
She needed some air.
1114
01:21:56,027 --> 01:21:58,422
Because she was pretty drunk.
1115
01:22:06,471 --> 01:22:08,873
See, the Millers,
one is black and one is white.
1116
01:22:08,973 --> 01:22:12,610
They said I was going with...
The reason I was over that night...
1117
01:22:12,710 --> 01:22:14,946
I was over there
messing with this man's wife.
1118
01:22:15,046 --> 01:22:19,046
And I ain't never gone with her in
my life. She was too old and ugly.
1119
01:22:20,518 --> 01:22:23,922
Like I said, the D.A. Will
put something into their mouth.
1120
01:22:24,022 --> 01:22:26,850
They could have
prefabricated the whole story.
1121
01:22:28,359 --> 01:22:29,561
They sure could have.
1122
01:22:29,661 --> 01:22:32,330
But what I saw is just what I saw.
That was it.
1123
01:22:32,430 --> 01:22:35,565
So if they got paid,
they got paid for lying.
1124
01:22:38,970 --> 01:22:42,139
They already decided
what to do with you in the hall.
1125
01:22:42,373 --> 01:22:46,511
That's why they call it the Hall of
Justice, the scales are not balanced.
1126
01:22:46,611 --> 01:22:49,547
The scales are in the hall,
and they go up and down.
1127
01:22:49,647 --> 01:22:54,079
They might go up for you, favor one
way, they might go down against you.
1128
01:22:54,385 --> 01:22:58,612
So if the D.A. Wants you to hang
15 or 20 years, you're hung.
1129
01:23:01,359 --> 01:23:04,858
I had all these charges
still pending in Orange County.
1130
01:23:08,733 --> 01:23:11,424
I could have been certified
as an adult...
1131
01:23:12,236 --> 01:23:15,337
maybe given a life sentence.
I don't know.
1132
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,000
I'm 16 years old.
I know I don't want that.
1133
01:23:20,578 --> 01:23:24,373
That District Attorney told me,
"Don't worry about them charges."
1134
01:23:24,816 --> 01:23:29,248
"I'm gonna ask your...
Defense Attorney is gonna ask you...
1135
01:23:29,387 --> 01:23:31,987
"if you had any kind of deal...
1136
01:23:32,857 --> 01:23:35,252
"or anything of that nature...
1137
01:23:36,127 --> 01:23:39,228
"in exchange for your testimony
in this case...
1138
01:23:39,497 --> 01:23:41,722
"as relating to those charges.
1139
01:23:44,102 --> 01:23:48,033
"Don't answer that 'Yes.'
Answer it 'No."'
1140
01:23:53,011 --> 01:23:55,907
My husband,
he didn't get that good a look at him.
1141
01:23:58,549 --> 01:24:02,617
He wasn't sure, because they put
a bunch of them that looked alike.
1142
01:24:03,955 --> 01:24:07,292
They had about three or four
in the lineup that had bushy hair...
1143
01:24:07,392 --> 01:24:11,551
but he had his combed down,
different to what it was in the killing.
1144
01:24:12,363 --> 01:24:14,999
I didn't pick him out right then...
1145
01:24:15,099 --> 01:24:17,563
because I picked out
this bushy-haired man.
1146
01:24:20,838 --> 01:24:25,372
I understand one other witness
did pick out the man at the lineup.
1147
01:24:26,077 --> 01:24:28,336
I'm not sure, but I think he did.
1148
01:24:28,546 --> 01:24:32,113
Of course I picked out
Randall Adams just like that.
1149
01:24:33,951 --> 01:24:36,085
I don't know about the others.
1150
01:24:36,954 --> 01:24:39,679
Evidently they did at that time.
1151
01:25:02,547 --> 01:25:04,305
I just took off.
1152
01:25:05,283 --> 01:25:07,151
It's like, kids run away...
1153
01:25:07,251 --> 01:25:09,821
they don't think about
where they're going to stay...
1154
01:25:09,921 --> 01:25:13,420
how they're going to eat,
all these things.
1155
01:25:16,861 --> 01:25:19,130
They had that roof over their head
all their lives.
1156
01:25:19,230 --> 01:25:21,466
They don't really think
about those things...
1157
01:25:21,566 --> 01:25:25,133
till you get out there and you say,
"My stomach's growling now."
1158
01:25:26,671 --> 01:25:29,999
Or, "It's getting cold out here.
It's raining."
1159
01:25:34,011 --> 01:25:35,880
There was ice on the road.
1160
01:25:35,980 --> 01:25:40,674
I remember there was a car coming
pretty fast up the road behind me...
1161
01:25:41,419 --> 01:25:44,122
and didn't see me or something...
1162
01:25:44,222 --> 01:25:47,759
or was in one lane and came into
the other lane and I was in that lane...
1163
01:25:47,859 --> 01:25:50,595
and tried to stop me.
He went off the side of the road.
1164
01:25:50,695 --> 01:25:53,031
I remember this car
went off the side of the road.
1165
01:25:53,131 --> 01:25:55,356
I'm just looking back.
1166
01:25:59,704 --> 01:26:01,428
I remember that.
1167
01:26:06,944 --> 01:26:10,307
I got a call at my house
about 3:30 one morning.
1168
01:26:10,815 --> 01:26:13,384
One of the patrolmen
in my department called...
1169
01:26:13,484 --> 01:26:17,188
and said, "We just arrested
this boy named David Harris...
1170
01:26:17,288 --> 01:26:21,025
"and he won't even tell us his name.
He said he wants to talk to you."
1171
01:26:21,125 --> 01:26:25,125
They told me something that really
made me interested. He'd been shot.
1172
01:26:25,530 --> 01:26:29,757
David had initially told me
that he had gone to a bar in Houston...
1173
01:26:31,169 --> 01:26:35,139
and was flirting with a young lady
and her boyfriend became upset...
1174
01:26:35,239 --> 01:26:39,432
and chased him out with a pistol,
shooting at him.
1175
01:26:42,113 --> 01:26:44,042
We knew that wasn't true.
1176
01:26:44,148 --> 01:26:46,684
I said,
"David, I know you're lying to me.
1177
01:26:46,784 --> 01:26:50,977
"We go through this all the time,
all my dealings with you in the past.
1178
01:26:51,389 --> 01:26:53,291
"I don't know what you've done just yet.
1179
01:26:53,391 --> 01:26:54,592
"I know you were shot.
1180
01:26:54,692 --> 01:26:57,995
"I know you were shot doing something
that you shouldn't have been...
1181
01:26:58,095 --> 01:27:01,966
"we know you burglarized a gun shop.
We know you were driving drunk.
1182
01:27:02,066 --> 01:27:06,637
"Got witnesses who can identify you,
who can identify your truck."
1183
01:27:06,737 --> 01:27:10,168
I said, "You're caught.
So tell the truth."
1184
01:27:10,341 --> 01:27:12,736
And David said, "Okay, I killed him."
1185
01:27:16,314 --> 01:27:20,473
Their home was entered while he
and his girlfriend were there alone.
1186
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:26,520
The man was sent into the bathroom
at gunpoint and told to stay there.
1187
01:27:29,093 --> 01:27:32,353
David took the girl
and was starting to leave.
1188
01:27:33,097 --> 01:27:36,130
The man exited the apartment with a gun.
1189
01:27:37,902 --> 01:27:40,304
The man fell to the ground,
or near the ground...
1190
01:27:40,404 --> 01:27:44,041
holding onto a pole there in the
parking lot of the apartment complex...
1191
01:27:44,141 --> 01:27:47,778
and these last, whether it be two,
three, or how many shots...
1192
01:27:47,878 --> 01:27:51,673
I don't know, were fired at point-blank
or near point-blank range.
1193
01:27:55,620 --> 01:27:59,123
David thought that the one
that was really at fault that night...
1194
01:27:59,223 --> 01:28:02,260
was the guy that got killed.
He said, "That guy's crazy.
1195
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:03,828
"He came after me with a gun."
1196
01:28:03,928 --> 01:28:06,464
I told him,
"David, you'd broken into his house...
1197
01:28:06,564 --> 01:28:09,600
"you abducted his girlfriend,
what was he supposed to do?"
1198
01:28:09,700 --> 01:28:12,336
He said,
"Man shouldn't come out with a gun.
1199
01:28:12,436 --> 01:28:15,036
"That dude's crazy.
He should have been killed."
1200
01:28:18,009 --> 01:28:20,511
When we went to retrieve the pistol...
1201
01:28:20,611 --> 01:28:22,446
I had to go into the water to get it.
1202
01:28:22,546 --> 01:28:25,416
It was a bayou and it was grassy,
snaky-looking area.
1203
01:28:25,516 --> 01:28:27,718
I was not real pleased
about being there myself...
1204
01:28:27,818 --> 01:28:31,289
but David enjoyed watching me have to
go down there and look for the gun.
1205
01:28:31,389 --> 01:28:34,956
I'd been searching several minutes,
he was up on the bridge...
1206
01:28:35,092 --> 01:28:37,195
and probably 25 feet from me...
1207
01:28:37,295 --> 01:28:41,761
directing me to where he thought
that the gun had landed in the water.
1208
01:28:44,635 --> 01:28:46,037
He was handcuffed.
1209
01:28:46,137 --> 01:28:49,006
Traffic would come by,
and he would turn around...
1210
01:28:49,106 --> 01:28:52,076
and show them his handcuffs
and holler at them, "Help me!
1211
01:28:52,176 --> 01:28:55,277
"The officials will throw me
in this water and drown me."
1212
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,416
Just anything he could do
to make a joke and cut up out there.
1213
01:28:58,516 --> 01:29:00,775
He was just really having a good time.
1214
01:29:04,588 --> 01:29:06,312
The kid scares me.
1215
01:29:07,858 --> 01:29:12,119
To think that he could actually be
out there, walking the streets...
1216
01:29:12,496 --> 01:29:14,565
and Dallas County let him go.
1217
01:29:14,665 --> 01:29:17,390
The kid had seven crimes
coming down on him.
1218
01:29:19,170 --> 01:29:23,033
He had armed robberies.
He had firing on a peace officer.
1219
01:29:23,741 --> 01:29:26,677
He had breaking and enterings,
aggravated assaults.
1220
01:29:26,777 --> 01:29:28,646
God knows what all this kid had.
1221
01:29:28,746 --> 01:29:31,882
And Dallas County gives him
complete immunity for his testimony.
1222
01:29:31,982 --> 01:29:33,376
Just lets him walk.
1223
01:29:44,228 --> 01:29:46,497
My mom had a good phrase.
1224
01:29:46,597 --> 01:29:50,201
She said the first night
she pulled into Dallas, it was raining...
1225
01:29:50,301 --> 01:29:52,069
and that it was lightning.
1226
01:29:52,169 --> 01:29:54,372
And they're coming into Dallas...
1227
01:29:54,472 --> 01:29:58,335
and she said if there was ever
a hell on earth, it's Dallas County.
1228
01:30:01,178 --> 01:30:02,936
She's right.
1229
01:30:14,992 --> 01:30:19,563
You deal with people who you sense
bad vibrations, more or less.
1230
01:30:19,663 --> 01:30:22,933
You feel, this guy doesn't like me
anyway because I'm a policeman.
1231
01:30:23,033 --> 01:30:26,904
You can just kind of sense something.
Maybe I shouldn't even be saying it...
1232
01:30:27,004 --> 01:30:29,940
because police shouldn't
take these things to the bank.
1233
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:34,700
When you deal with people over
and over, you sense a lot of things.
1234
01:30:34,845 --> 01:30:38,845
Talking to David, you don't ever
feel hostile feelings coming from him.
1235
01:30:39,717 --> 01:30:41,986
I have never seen David any way...
1236
01:30:42,086 --> 01:30:45,722
other than cordial,
friendly to me as he could be:
1237
01:30:46,490 --> 01:30:50,353
"Yes, sir." "No, sir."
Never disrespectful.
1238
01:30:51,162 --> 01:30:53,597
I've never seen the bad side.
I've seen the results...
1239
01:30:53,697 --> 01:30:56,434
and I've talked to him about it,
and he's aware of it.
1240
01:30:56,534 --> 01:30:58,827
He remembers the bad side.
1241
01:30:59,437 --> 01:31:02,540
But I've never seen him
committing a crime...
1242
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,832
or in a violent or volatile state.
1243
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,744
When his crimes were confessed to...
1244
01:31:11,949 --> 01:31:16,381
he seemed to feel better and do better
during those times.
1245
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,357
His parents would tell me
he would to do better at home...
1246
01:31:19,457 --> 01:31:22,526
he seemed to get along better
with the people in town...
1247
01:31:22,626 --> 01:31:24,395
his neighbors and friends.
1248
01:31:24,495 --> 01:31:26,464
But something happens to David...
1249
01:31:26,564 --> 01:31:30,860
I don't know what it is. I don't know
if anybody can put their finger on it.
1250
01:31:35,973 --> 01:31:38,809
But there's no other indication
of anything in the family...
1251
01:31:38,909 --> 01:31:43,045
that would lead you to believe
he had exposure to these activities.
1252
01:31:49,019 --> 01:31:52,723
David's got at least one other brother
and sister that I know of.
1253
01:31:52,823 --> 01:31:57,187
And he had one brother that drowned
numerous years ago.
1254
01:32:02,700 --> 01:32:05,926
I was 3 years old...
1255
01:32:06,403 --> 01:32:08,503
I had a 4-year-old brother...
1256
01:32:08,939 --> 01:32:12,302
and he drowned in 1963...
1257
01:32:13,477 --> 01:32:16,514
right after President Kennedy
was assassinated, I believe.
1258
01:32:16,614 --> 01:32:19,339
Sometime right after that,
during the summer.
1259
01:32:19,984 --> 01:32:23,415
We was living in Beaumont
on Harrison Street...
1260
01:32:24,955 --> 01:32:27,988
and my dad was working on his truck
out in the yard...
1261
01:32:28,459 --> 01:32:32,186
and mom was in the house
doing her housework or fixing dinner.
1262
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:37,031
Me and my brother, we had
one of these little blow-up pools...
1263
01:32:38,168 --> 01:32:40,199
and we were playing in that.
1264
01:32:41,038 --> 01:32:45,197
My dad was supposed to be watching
or keeping an eye on us or something.
1265
01:32:45,643 --> 01:32:47,978
My brother wandered off
down the street...
1266
01:32:48,078 --> 01:32:50,781
and these people had a
swimming pool in their backyard...
1267
01:32:50,881 --> 01:32:53,584
and they were elderly people.
They never used the pool.
1268
01:32:53,684 --> 01:32:56,682
I guess it had a bunch of leaves
and stuff in it.
1269
01:32:59,657 --> 01:33:02,485
And he, evidently,
fell in there and drowned.
1270
01:33:05,796 --> 01:33:10,228
I used to sit up in my room at night
and talk to him and he wasn't there.
1271
01:33:14,004 --> 01:33:18,766
So that might have been some kind of
a traumatic experience for me.
1272
01:33:20,744 --> 01:33:22,343
I guess my dad...
1273
01:33:25,816 --> 01:33:28,886
I don't know, maybe he couldn't
get rid of the responsibility...
1274
01:33:28,986 --> 01:33:32,087
or the guilt or something.
I don't know what it was.
1275
01:33:33,991 --> 01:33:37,061
I was there and I guess maybe
I reminded him of that...
1276
01:33:37,161 --> 01:33:39,329
all the time, growing up.
1277
01:33:41,465 --> 01:33:44,225
It was hard for me
to get any acceptance from him.
1278
01:33:46,170 --> 01:33:47,805
When my younger brother was born...
1279
01:33:47,905 --> 01:33:51,973
it was kind of like he was Daddy's
favorite or something, I don't know.
1280
01:33:54,745 --> 01:33:59,378
Everybody's life is going to take some
kind of path regardless of what happens.
1281
01:34:02,453 --> 01:34:06,020
I think maybe that a lot of the things
I did when I was younger...
1282
01:34:06,156 --> 01:34:10,759
was an attempt to get back at him
or something...
1283
01:34:11,228 --> 01:34:13,157
for the way he treated me.
1284
01:34:14,732 --> 01:34:17,560
But I wasn't doing nothing
but hurting myself.
1284
01:34:18,305 --> 01:34:24,226
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