1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:06,200 This programme contains some strong language 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,000 CHEERING 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,320 MICHAEL LAUGHS 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,960 Woo! 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:17,320 This is really true. 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,200 A lot of people say, "You just made it up to have something to say." 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,040 But one day our television broke down 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,720 and we didn't have anything, really, to do, 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,640 like in the morning times. 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,960 So, what we started doing, we started singing, 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,120 my mother, my brothers, 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,200 and we started making harmony. 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,480 Next thing we know, we were singing in talent shows 14 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:39,560 and winning awards and trophies. 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,200 That's how it got started. 16 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,200 # You went to school to learn, girl 17 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,840 # Things you never, never knew before 18 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,040 # Like I before E except after C 19 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,760 # And why two plus two makes four 20 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,040 # Na-na-na 21 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,240 - # I'm gonna teach you - Teach you, teach you 22 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,480 - # All about love, yeah - All about love 23 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,520 # Sit yourself down, take a seat 24 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,840 # All you gotta do is repeat after me 25 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,600 # A, B, C 26 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,520 # Easy as one, two, three 27 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,640 # Simple as do re mi 28 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,040 # A, B, C 29 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,960 - # One, two, three - Baby, you and me, girl. # 30 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:12,600 'Hey, hey, hey, stop the film! 31 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,480 'Hey, stop the film, please! 32 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,200 'Hey, stop the film! Come on! 33 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,920 CHEERING 'Thank you.' 34 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,600 They want to hear I Want You Back and ABC and The Love You Save... 35 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,200 - Right. - ..and Dancing Machine, Sugar Daddy, I'll Be There, 36 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Got To Be There, Rockin' Robin. 37 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,520 - You want to hear Daddy's Home? - CHEERING 38 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,160 Do you want to hear all the old stuff? 39 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,440 The number one reason I don't want to do the old stuff, 40 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,080 number one - it's old! OK? 41 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,720 Number two - the choreography is old! 42 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,040 Jackie's old! 43 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,600 CHEERING 44 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,240 - Wait a minute, Michael. - Do you care about that? 45 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,680 Do you care? 46 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:47,920 I'll tell you what... 47 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,520 ..I'll do the old stuff for you, OK? 48 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,760 CHEERING 49 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,040 But I'm doing it for you, I'm not doing it for them. 50 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,200 I'm doing it for you! 51 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,960 MUSIC: I Want You Back by The Jackson 5 52 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,074 The Venom - $5 million GTD Poker Tourney Download AmericasCardroom.com 53 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,680 # When I had you to myself I didn't want you around 54 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,360 # Those pretty faces always made you stand out in a crowd... # 55 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,360 Their first four songs broke historical records 56 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,160 because they all went to number one, the very first four songs 57 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,040 they ever recorded, 58 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,640 - which was I Want You Back... - ABC, The Love You Save... 59 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:50,720 ..and I'll Be There. 60 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,160 What happened after that was we went from being able to go anywhere, 61 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,440 get a hamburger, go to a movie, you know, go shopping, 62 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,000 to being able to go nowhere. 63 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,200 They became so successful so quickly 64 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,680 that none of us were prepared for it. 65 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,160 # Ooh, ooh, baby 66 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,520 - # I want you back - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 67 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,040 # I want you back... # 68 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,560 He used to sing songs with a lot of feeling and he would sing them 69 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,440 with a lot of feeling and a lot of moving 70 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,920 like he had been here before. 71 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,680 Like he had lived before. 72 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,000 Vocally, he was just leaps and bounds ahead of 73 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,120 what anybody could teach him. 74 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,720 He came here knowing that stuff. 75 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,160 It was in his DNA. 76 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,520 I discovered that Michael was very talented 77 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,960 when he was just about two or three years old. 78 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,880 Michael had a lot of rhythm and he loved to dance. 79 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,960 I think he was born dancing. 80 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,520 Michael told me, way back, he said, "Steve, I'm not going to be poor." 81 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,840 Imagine 11 kids living in a two-bedroom house in Gary, Indiana. 82 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,880 And Gary, Indiana is no Beverly Hills. 83 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,160 It was hard. 84 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,440 When you have all those kids like I had 85 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,480 and kids, you know, they like to eat, 86 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,760 so when they holler, they want some food, 87 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,400 you got to put something in their hand. 88 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,520 And I kept food on the table, plenty food spare. 89 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,480 Joseph had done a remarkable job creating the group. 90 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,200 I can remember how much it meant to all of them, 91 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,560 but particularly Michael, to make it. 92 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,560 I would say, to this day, Motown was the greatest school for me. 93 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,400 Really, it was the best. 94 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,360 I learned how to cut a track as well as producing. 95 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,680 I've learned so many things about writing. 96 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,040 Pretty much like a college that taught us everything 97 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,680 about songwriting and producing and everything. 98 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,960 And we learned so much about lyrical content, 99 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,920 how to produce songs and just being a great artist. 100 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,120 They had the best songwriters and artists in the world. 101 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,760 Here we are in Chicago. 102 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,640 You see here members of The Temptations. 103 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,320 Down here on the bottom is little Michael with his Afro 104 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,080 and I'm right next to him. 105 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,400 That's me, y'all. 106 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,800 What Michael learned is to be great 107 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,640 you had to be persistent. 108 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,080 You had to work. He got to watch people 109 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,240 like Diana Ross, 110 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,160 Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder... 111 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,840 The Temptations, Smokey Robinson. 112 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,160 All these wonderful guys 113 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,560 that we idolised. 114 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,680 And these were legends in the music industry 115 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,680 that he was able to observe up close in the studio 116 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,000 in their element. 117 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,160 I got my degree from Motown university. 118 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,680 It was really an atmosphere of competition. 119 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,080 Competition breeds champions, but you can't let the competition 120 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,520 overcome the love. 121 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,440 And so it was all built on love, and Michael was full of love. 122 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,800 And the atmosphere just suited him very well. 123 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,240 We learned so much being with all those great songwriters 124 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,280 and producers. 125 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,080 And at the time when it's taking place, you don't realise that. 126 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,680 We were kids ourselves, I didn't know how to do this. 127 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,440 And we were learning as we went together. 128 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:47,880 # Stop! Na-na-na-na 129 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,320 # You'd better save it 130 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,240 # Stop, stop, stop You'd better save it 131 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,880 # When we played tag in grade school 132 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,400 # You want to be It 133 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,400 # But chasing boys was just a fad 134 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,240 # You crossed your heart you'd quit. # 135 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,440 Yes, it's the same nerve The Beatles touched lo these many years ago. 136 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,160 Only this time, it's a group of black teenagers 137 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,040 fronted by an 11-year-old soul brother. 138 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,040 # Darling, take it slow 139 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,920 # Or some day you'll be all alone. # 140 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,200 It was so intense, this fan worship. 141 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,000 You have to understand that all the kids who were 142 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,760 responding to The Jackson 5, 143 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,160 hadn't had a Mickey Mouse Club with kids like them on camera. 144 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,080 They represented the first youth group of our contemporary times 145 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,720 for all these kids to identify with, 146 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,920 and, initially, they were all the black kids. 147 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,920 The beginning is, you know, when I first saw him 148 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,480 and that's the reason why I'm here. 149 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:51,680 That's what motivated me 150 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,520 and wanted me to do whatever it is that I'm doing right now. 151 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,520 You know, he was everything that... 152 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,280 That I aspired to be. 153 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,520 Those boys, they practise most of the time 154 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,040 because one of the kids who's out there... 155 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,120 running the streets and playing, he was in there 156 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,600 trying to get a song down or something. 157 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,680 He wanted to be the best at everything he ever did. 158 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,920 They were not at all concerned about the working. 159 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,800 We worked all day and all night. 160 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,640 I mean, this kid, at nine, 161 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,120 meant serious business. 162 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,400 I mean, this kid meant serious, serious business. 163 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,360 I mean, he was not kidding! 164 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,320 He questioned Nick and I 165 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,640 about our early Motown songs. 166 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,160 He always wanted to know, how did you come up with this idea? 167 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,960 What was this? What made you say that? 168 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,400 You know, songs like Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing. 169 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:42,640 He was a real student. 170 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,480 I was fascinated by the fact that he had this kind of commitment 171 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,320 and this kind of dedication and was inquisitive about it. 172 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,800 He was always watching. 173 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,680 He would always be watching. 174 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,160 Well, who else do you think makes 175 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,600 the stage come to real life 176 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,000 besides me and Ed Sullivan? 177 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,640 LAUGHTER 178 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,280 Hold it, hold it, hold it. 179 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,760 You're beginning to steam me, kid. You understand that? 180 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,240 Best experience in the world. 181 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,560 Just sitting in the wings and learning. 182 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,160 Aw. I ate that up. 183 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,000 And he would sit with me at mixing sessions, 184 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,760 because I did a lot of mixing. 185 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,080 He would sit there for hours and hours. 186 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,520 I would tell somebody, one of my assistants, I'd say, 187 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,160 "My back is turned, but I know Michael is staring at me." 188 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,120 The thing I loved about Motown 189 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,680 was that Berry Gordy, 190 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,240 if he didn't like a song, he'd go in the studio and cut one himself. 191 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,400 - Yeah. - And so Berry Gordy, in my opinion, is probably 192 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,000 the greatest record man there ever was. 193 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Berry was wonderful with taking a song 194 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,480 and leaning it to the right direction, 195 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,760 giving it the right flavours, to make it a hit. 196 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,280 He knew just what it takes, and everybody can't do that. 197 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,680 Ben is coming... 198 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,200 And this time, he's not alone. 199 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,960 And then came Ben, which was a soundtrack to a movie about rats. 200 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,000 Wherever we tour, the whole room demand to hear it. 201 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,320 We can't get off stage. 202 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,520 People start chanting for Ben. 203 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,080 This performance of Ben at the Academy Awards in 1973 204 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,680 was the first time that Michael really stepped out on his own. 205 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,400 The first nominated song is Ben from the picture Ben. 206 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,040 It'll be sung by a young man whose talent is mature, 207 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,680 but whose age suggests that maybe he shouldn't even be up this late. 208 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:36,160 # Ben, the two of us need look no more 209 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:43,080 # We both found what we were looking for 210 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,760 # With a friend to call my own... # 211 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,440 He was part of your whole life. 212 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,760 It was crazy, man! 213 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,960 When you were a little kid 214 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,440 with all the Jackson 5 songs 215 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,840 and when you're a little older then through your puberty, 216 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,640 your adolescence. 217 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,080 # Ben, you're always running here and there 218 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,760 And then when you go to college, and then... 219 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,000 He was always around, defining a part of your life. 220 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,600 There's so many steps in between that first day and Off The Wall. 221 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,120 For me, the most heartbreaking was when they left Motown. 222 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,080 # Dancing, dancing, dancing 223 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,040 # She's a dancing machine 224 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,000 # Aw, babe 225 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,520 # Move it, baby 226 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,640 # Automatic systematic 227 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,200 # Full of colour, self-contained 228 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,240 # Tuned and gentle to your vibes... # 229 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,120 They came in as bubble-gum. 230 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,760 No-one ever graduates from being a cute kid group 231 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,280 to being taken seriously. 232 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,640 There's no child singer that you could point to, 233 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,640 besides Michael Jackson, that went from being really big 234 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,160 to the biggest pop star ever. 235 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,960 Thank God for Dancing Machine. 236 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,360 What they were observing at the time at Motown, 237 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,960 what The Jacksons were observing, were a lot of artists 238 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,160 having creative freedom. 239 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,960 # Dancing, dancing, dancing machine 240 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,280 # Watch her get down Watch her get down. # 241 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,200 We wanted to write, we wanted to produce ourselves 242 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,200 and our contract at Motown didn't let us do that. 243 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,400 And plus our contract was expiring at the time 244 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,120 and it was time to make a new change. 245 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,800 Two guys named Ron Alexenburg 246 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,600 and Steve Popovich, OK? 247 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,520 And they were with Epic, one was head of promotion, 248 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,880 one was head of A&R, and they came to me and said, 249 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,840 "We're going to sign The Jacksons." 250 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,240 You know, as a group. 251 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,000 It all started at the Warwick Hotel and there's nothing but kids 252 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,400 around the whole hotel. I went to the doorman and said, 253 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,040 "What's going on here?" And he said, "The Jackson 5 are here!" 254 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,400 It gave me the opportunity to go, just the way I am, 255 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,280 into the lobby, I picked up the house phone and I called and I said, 256 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,200 "Michael Jackson, please" and they rang right through to room 805 257 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,800 and he came downstairs with his dad. I looked at him and said, 258 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,200 "What do you want to do?" and he said, "Some day I'd like to 259 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,040 "do my own music." I said, "Really? What about now?" 260 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,640 The group wanted to leave Motown. 261 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,320 - Joseph... - My name's Joe Jackson. 262 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,600 ..thought that he wanted to bring them and take them 263 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,320 to a whole other level that Motown just couldn't do. 264 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,800 But I was told not to sign him and I was told that 265 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,160 they were a cartoon act. 266 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,600 And I went to Walter Yetnikoff who was my boss and I said, 267 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,800 "Hold on. The Jacksons belong on this label. 268 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,640 "We call ourselves "the family of music", this is a family. 269 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,360 "I want to sign them." 270 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,040 I said, "Well, I don't know how many records they've sold." 271 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,680 So, I went to hear at the Westbury Music Fair. 272 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:43,760 Michael was 15 years old at the time. 273 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,240 He's singing a song to a dead rat, which you remember, named Ben, OK? 274 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,680 And I come back and I said to these guys, "Are you crazy? 275 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,640 "You want to give them 3,500,000?" 276 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,920 I said, "Walter, please. You're new in your job 277 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,480 "and you're really not qualified to judge this." 278 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,280 I was in the job, like, three weeks when that happened. 279 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,240 He was like, "OK, I'll go along with you guys. 280 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,040 "You seem to know what you're doing." 281 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,000 I said, "You know, you're probably right." 282 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,320 That was my brilliant move in signing The Jacksons. 283 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,680 # Like Ben 284 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,400 # Like Ben 285 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,920 # Like Ben. # 286 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,160 APPLAUSE 287 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:27,720 The most tense time of life, for me, 288 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,920 was the changing from Motown 289 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,720 to CBS. 290 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,120 I was in a whole other world. 291 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,720 I was... Gosh. 292 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,440 I didn't know what was happening. 293 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,720 Understanding the challenge of a child prodigy having to make 294 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,320 a transition and now being a serious, serious artist 295 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,600 and how much courage it takes to actually step outside of that 296 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,640 and to come with a new sound, 297 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,080 that can be pretty damn scary. 298 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,840 Kind of a critical decision that The Jackson 5 with their father, 299 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,600 Joe Jackson, made to leave Motown. 300 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,360 And it resulted in a lawsuit out of which came a name change 301 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,640 to The Jacksons. 302 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,840 I was told I couldn't use the name "Jackson 5" 303 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,040 and I said, "It's OK, we'll call them The Jacksons." 304 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,920 Berry Gordy would not let that name go. 305 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,840 We were all sad that he was gone... 306 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,560 Jermaine stayed. 307 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,280 Jermaine Jackson was married to the daughter 308 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,040 of Berry Gordy, so probably not a good idea for him to leave Motown 309 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,560 with the rest of his family. 310 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,680 We respect Jermaine's decision because that was 311 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,760 a very difficult decision for him to make 312 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,720 and I respect him for that because 313 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,520 he did what he wants to do. I want people to do what they want to do. 314 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,280 Don't do what I want you to do, do what you feel that's best for you. 315 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,400 There's so much going on, so much tension. 316 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,960 I wasn't sure what was going to happen. 317 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,280 I asked Michael, "What's going to happen when people ask you, 318 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,280 "Why are you leaving Motown?" and he said, 319 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,800 "Because everything is possible with you at Epic Records" 320 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,640 and there was nothing more to be said. 321 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,560 And with Columbia Records, we want to sell twice as many records. 322 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,080 We want to do the things that we've dreamed of. 323 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,640 It was not a popular signing in the business, 324 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,160 nor was it in the building. 325 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:04,520 "Ron's lost his mind." 326 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,720 You know, "The Jacksons have had it, they're done." 327 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,840 The problem at that time is they had had a cartoon series, 328 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,840 and their credibility was questionable. 329 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,480 # 2, 4, 6, 8, who do you appreciate 330 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,360 # Please be my pride and joy 331 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,600 # 2, 4, 6, 8, who do you appreciate 332 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,520 # I wanna be your lover boy... # 333 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,200 I may be a little fella 334 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,760 But my heart's as big as Texas 335 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,920 I have all the love a man can give 336 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,680 And maybe a little bit extra. 337 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,880 I'm going to give them as much credibility as I possibly can. 338 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,400 We got on a train to Philadelphia, 339 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,760 Gamble and Huff opened their drawer full of hits... 340 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,840 When you think of disco, and when you think of quality disco, 341 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,520 you came to Philadelphia. 342 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,520 Two of the people that Michael Jackson learned from immensely 343 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,720 were Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, who were the creators 344 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,000 and entrepreneurs behind Philly International. 345 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,160 The proprietors of the disco sound. 346 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,840 They had always wanted to write and produce their own records, 347 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,160 you know what I mean, and be a part of the process. 348 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,520 And that's pretty much what Philly International was, 349 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,440 it was a place where you had a lot of creative freedom. 350 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,720 They wrote tons of hits, I mean, tons, tons of hits. 351 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,440 We had Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, we had we had the O'Jays... 352 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Look to the roster! 353 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,400 We had Patti LaBelle... 354 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,440 - Archie Bell & The Drells... - Phyllis Hyman... - Billy Paul... 355 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,880 Lou Rawls, we had Teddy Pendergrass... 356 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,520 - Three Degrees. - Three Degrees... 357 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,960 We had to style these songs to fit these guys' voices. 358 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,080 - And that's what great producers do, right? - Sure. 359 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,000 We're right...almost in the middle of a recording session with 360 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,720 the Jacksons, and guess who is producing their brand-new album? 361 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,960 - Gamble and Huff. - That's right. 362 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,120 And why would you guys come all the way in from California 363 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,520 to cut some sides in an album in Philadelphia? 364 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,240 Because, er...the Gamble and Huff organisation is here, 365 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,560 and they're two of the best producers in the world. 366 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,040 Working with Gamble and Huff, they do it at a quicker pace - 367 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,320 three weeks to make a record. 368 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,720 I didn't know you could make a record in three weeks. 369 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,800 They were the Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis of the '70s. 370 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,560 And Michael always says he learned a lot 371 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,880 about the songwriting process from Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff. 372 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,560 How to structure a song, how to create great arrangements. 373 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,520 The Jacksons came to Philadelphia for two years to record two records, 374 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,320 The Jacksons and Goin' Places. 375 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,040 We try to write songs that people do all the time, 376 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,000 how people say things all the time. 377 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,040 # Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself 378 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,920 # Enjoy yourself for me... # 379 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,520 People say that all the time, you know, "Enjoy yourself." 380 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,800 # You've got to enjoy yourself... 381 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,040 # Sayin' 382 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,240 # Enjoy yourself 383 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,440 # Enjoy yourself 384 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,640 # Get down, get down 385 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,680 # Get on down 386 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:38,840 # Enjoy yourself 387 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,880 # Enjoy yourself 388 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:40,960 # Get down, get down 389 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,200 # Get on down 390 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:43,240 # Enjoy yourself 391 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,280 # Enjoy yourself 392 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,560 # Get down, get down 393 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:46,600 # Let's get on down 394 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:47,640 # Enjoy yourself 395 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:48,840 # Enjoy yourself 396 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,000 # Get down, get down 397 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,400 # Just get on down 398 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:01,960 - # Come on - Come on 399 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,200 - # Come on - Come on 400 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,320 - # Come on - Come on 401 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,360 # Come on 402 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,920 # You can do it, You can do it You can do it, You can do it 403 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,800 - # Whoo! # - He was driven by the music, 404 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,640 - he loved the music and, er... - He got to learn. 405 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,680 One of the most important things to being successful is listening. 406 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,880 It's listening and watching. 407 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,840 And being a good person to work with, easy to work with. 408 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,040 Every song is a negotiation, every production is a negotiation, 409 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,200 if you're co-doing it with someone. 410 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,360 You know, the producer wanted me to pronounce words a certain way. 411 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:35,160 There was a song, and there's a line in it where he sings... 412 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,080 # Now I'm a man that's for all seasons 413 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,280 # And what the city offers me ain't naturally... # 414 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,400 # "Ain't naturally..." # 415 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,880 He sings that, and I go, "Oh, no, that's bad English." 416 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,680 So I say, "Hang on, Mike," and I come out, and I said, 417 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,520 so I say, "Isn't naturally - naturally? Or isn't natural?" 418 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,280 I told him you pronounce the word so precisely, it takes away 419 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,960 from the feeling of the song, and we got into a little thing with that. 420 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,280 There's a lot of give and take, 421 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,800 and sometimes you don't want to give, or sometimes you give 422 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,040 but you feel like, "I should have left it how it was." 423 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,160 Something said, in my brain, "Shut the fuck up!" 424 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,400 "Stop being the grammar police! 425 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,920 This guy's a genius, just get out of his way!" 426 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,440 I was right, and I won! 427 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,520 But, um... it was a good learning point. 428 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,280 You want to... 429 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,800 100% express your idea. 430 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,960 It's just 100% expression of me. 431 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,000 We have two albums... 432 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,840 I mean, two singles on the album coming out in December on Epic. 433 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,640 The first time we've written some songs on the album. 434 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,960 It was a different style, but still it was a hit record, 435 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,200 so when we started putting that together with what 436 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,280 we heard amongst the brothers, it created our own style of music. 437 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,160 It's time to write, so I'm letting you know 438 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,920 that it's time for you to go out and do it yourself. 439 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,600 So we decided to write and produce our own songs, 440 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,600 and we finally did, 441 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,080 and we went through so much, you know? 442 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,360 The... 443 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:00,920 People are not believing in your work, or saying, 444 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,760 "Are you sure, are you sure?" 445 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,640 We said, "Yeah, we know we can, we know what we can do." 446 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,040 And we went in and we wrote the Destiny album. 447 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,480 I felt it was something that came from within, 448 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,600 from us, that this was the Jacksons. 449 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,120 "This is us today." 450 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,760 On the Destiny album, which is the album that comes out in 1978, 451 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,560 a year prior to Off The Wall, he's starting to make those moves, 452 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,160 he wrote Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground). 453 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,600 Where were you when you first found out about that record, 454 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:25,720 - how'd it happen? - Er... 455 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:26,760 It was at home, 456 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,040 and Randy was playing this groove on the piano, "da-da-dah..." 457 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,360 I said, "What is that?" He said, "Oh, it's nothing." 458 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,160 I said, "I'll say that it is something." 459 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,440 - And I just started singing to his playing. - Mm-hm. - And it came about. 460 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,400 I called some of my friends out here I had a lot of respect for, 461 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,560 that knew how to arrange. I thought... 462 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,640 the key to really making an album of a vocal band like this 463 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,000 is obviously great musicians, great arrangements... 464 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,960 Bobby Colomby convinced me that I should, er... 465 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,360 get more into arranging. 466 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,560 He said, "And here's who you're going to do it with." 467 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,880 Next thing you know, I'm in a room with The Jacksons! 468 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,000 Then we brought Greg in to help us with the record... 469 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,440 - Destiny album again. - Yeah. 470 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,320 - Man! - Amazing! 471 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,960 - Everybody was just great from the beginning. - It was supe then. 472 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,600 When I first heard the demo for Shake Your Body, it was... 473 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,080 You know, obviously, the melody was there, which was very strong, 474 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,120 and they had the basic piano part, you know, that you hear, 475 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,480 the "duh-duh-duh-duh..." All that rhythm was there. 476 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,680 # You walk around this town all with your head up in the sky 477 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,840 # But I do know that I want you... # 478 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,720 But there wasn't...as much going on rhythmically. 479 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,520 Greg came up with the "psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dum." 480 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,080 "Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dum." 481 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,680 "Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dah." 482 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,320 "Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dah." 483 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,920 That's the rhythm of Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground). 484 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,320 The average song was more like, 485 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,360 "Psst-tsst-tsst-tsst- tsst-tsst-tsst." 486 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,080 - It fit perfectly. - At first when he came up with that beat, I said, 487 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,200 "What is this guy doing?" 488 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,240 I said that to myself, I didn't say anything, 489 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,840 but I waited till he played it, 490 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,880 - and, man, when he played it... - Yes. - ..and we heard it on the record, 491 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,560 I said, "Oh, my God, this is the bomb!" 492 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,680 HE LAUGHS 493 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,040 Cos I'd never heard a beat like that before, you know? It was incredible. 494 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,240 Great beat. 495 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,600 I said, "If the Jacksons ever need a drummer, 496 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,400 "let 'em know your friend is in town." 497 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,960 It was a guy whose name is James McField, keyboard player, 498 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,040 who got me the audition. 499 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,640 And Tito said that - he had his arm on his guitar, and he said, 500 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,240 "Let's play Shake Your Body Down..." 501 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,240 This kind of look, he said, "You know that one?" 502 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,160 So I started playing the beat. 503 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,160 And they're looking at each other, 504 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,880 they're whispering in each other's ear, and they're looking, 505 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,640 and I'm saying, "Oh, no, I'm blowing it!" 506 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Because that beat is very tricky. 507 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,640 You have to know when and how to cross your arms 508 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,400 to make the times happen, 509 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,000 the intricate hi-hat pattern, 510 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,920 and keep the beat going without losing any of the elements. 511 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,640 And then Randy said, "Nobody could play that beat! 512 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,200 That was a three-part overdub!" 513 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,040 And I said, "Really? I thought the guy played that one time." 514 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,280 And they were shocked and amazed that I could play it, 515 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,880 and they said, "You're our drummer." 516 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,320 We had Tom Tom 84 doing the horn arrangements, 517 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,400 who is a horn arranger out of Chicago 518 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,320 who did all of Earth, Wind & Fire's. 519 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,080 And then we have the horn arrangement, 520 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,840 then we got Earth, Wind & Fire's horn players come in and play 521 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,280 "Duh-duh-duh-duh-dah-da-da-da- dah-dah-dah," 522 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,880 and the horn players loved that lick. 523 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,880 It's as dissonant and tension-provoking 524 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,920 a verse, musically... 525 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,600 You can't... And I'm, like, "What's going on? 526 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,720 "Where's the bridge, when's the solo? When are we...?" 527 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,600 I'm just used to other form. 528 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,520 Epic's really not interested in them at all at this point, 529 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,960 it was kind of like, "Oh, God, we've got to put this out..." 530 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,200 I get a call from Paris Eley. 531 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,760 He is head of promotion for the R&B department. 532 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,440 And he says, "Hey, man... 533 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,960 "..Shake Your Body's a hit." 534 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,760 I want to show you first of all the album, 535 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,400 and then show you the inside, if I may, and from left to right, 536 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,560 they are Randy and Tito and Jackie and Marlon and Michael, 537 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,640 and they are... 538 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:52,840 The Jacksons! 539 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,880 CHEERING 540 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,200 # I don't know what's gonna happen to you, baby 541 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,840 # But I do know that I love you 542 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,760 # You walk around this town with your head all up in the sky 543 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,840 # And I do know that I want you 544 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,000 # Let's dance, let's shout 545 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,880 # Shake your body down to the ground 546 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,400 # Let's dance, let's shout 547 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,920 # Shake your body down to the ground 548 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,080 # Let's dance, let's shout 549 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,840 # Shake your body down to the ground 550 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,080 # Let's dance, let's shout 551 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,200 # Shake your body down to the ground... # 552 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,080 That enabled people to see Michael Jackson finally as an adult. 553 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,040 Because it was musical, it was a long way from ABC 554 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,600 and I Want You Back. 555 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,320 # You tease me with your loving to play hard to get 556 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,240 # Cos you do know that I want you 557 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,320 # I need to do just something to get closer to your soul 558 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,480 # Cos I do know that I want you 559 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,720 # Let's dance, let's shout 560 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,320 # Shake your body down to the ground 561 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,520 # Let's dance, let's shout 562 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,320 # Shake your body down to the ground 563 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,680 # Let's dance, let's shout 564 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,200 # Shake your body down to the ground 565 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,640 # Let's dance, let's shout 566 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,360 # Shake it all now 567 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,800 # Shake it all now... # 568 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,480 There's a moment in the demo of Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground) 569 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,640 which clearly let me know that they had their eyes on a bigger prize. 570 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,320 It's 1978, and the biggest-selling album of all time 571 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,960 is Saturday Night Fever. 572 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,040 And there's a moment that you can hear Jackie in the background 573 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,520 say, "Pssh! 574 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,280 "I can't wait till the Bee Gees hear THIS shit!" 575 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,880 I want the Bee Gees to hear this shit! 576 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,000 Whoo! 577 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,200 # Let's dance, let's shout 578 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,920 # Shake your body down to the ground... # 579 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,000 Everybody! 580 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,960 # Shake your body down to the ground Let's dance, let's shout 581 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,680 # Shake your body down to the ground... # 582 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,720 Everybody! 583 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,360 We wrote, "Produced by The Jacksons. All songs written by The Jacksons." 584 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,160 Well, Mick Jackson, 585 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,080 a white kid that lived in England, wrote Blame It On The Boogie. 586 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,480 I didn't lie. His name was Jackson! 587 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,280 # Don't blame it on the sunshine 588 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,320 # Don't blame it on the moonlight 589 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560 # Don't blame it on the good times 590 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,360 # Blame it on the boogie 591 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,640 # Don't you blame it on the sunshine 592 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,680 # Don't blame it on the moonlight 593 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,920 # Don't blame it on the good times 594 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,440 # Blame it on the boogie... # 595 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,600 Whoo! 596 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,560 # I just can't, I just can't 597 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,520 # I just can't control my feet 598 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,600 # I just can't, I just can't 599 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,560 # I just can't control my feet 600 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,640 # I just can't, I just can't 601 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,480 # I just can't control my feet 602 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,600 # I just can't, I just can't 603 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,680 # I just can't control my feet 604 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,000 # Sunshine 605 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080 # Don't blame it on the moonlight 606 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,200 # Don't blame it on the good times 607 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,680 # Blame it on the boogie 608 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,920 # Sunshine 609 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,040 # Don't blame it on the moonlight 610 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,040 # Don't blame it on the good times 611 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,880 # Blame it on the boogie 612 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,600 # I just can't, I just can't 613 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,440 # I just can't control my feet 614 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,320 - # I just can't, I just can't - Whoo! 615 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,840 # I just can't control my... # 616 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,200 So Michael starts singing. 617 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560 He throws the headphones down, and bolts out of the studio. 618 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,200 I turned to the engineer... 619 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,200 "Did he get feedback, is there something...?" 620 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,320 He says, "No, nothing." I go out to the hall, 621 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,360 he's dancing! 622 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,720 It was unbelievable, just spinning around, he goes... 623 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,440 "I'm sorry," he said, "I can't stand still and sing that section, 624 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,760 "I gotta get this out." 625 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,680 He'd watched James Brown, the Nicholas Brothers and Sammy Davis. 626 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,400 He had seen somebody dance one time, 627 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,280 like Fred Astaire and some of the other stars, 628 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,720 and he could do exactly what they... 629 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,960 Easy to catch on. 630 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,440 Jackie Wilson, which I used to watch from the wings every day on stage. 631 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,000 - Mmm-hmm. - We would play at the Regal Theater, six shows a day, 632 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,640 we would come on amateur hour... 633 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,800 - Oh, my gosh. - I would just watch him. 634 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840 Sammy Davis Jr is another one of my favourites. 635 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,160 - You can't go wrong watching Sammy Davis Jr. - Oh, yeah. 636 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,240 To watch him and to see... 637 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,600 And suddenly see little flashes... 638 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,680 Flatteringly, I say this about myself... 639 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,200 Little flashes of me there, and go, "Wow," but he's extended it, 640 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,560 he's changed it, he's coloured it, till it becomes his own. 641 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,880 He introduced me to Fred Astaire and all these movies, 642 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,920 I had no idea who the hell these people were prior to that. 643 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:21,960 Right? And, er... 644 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,000 He just opened up my eyes to a whole other world of inspiration. 645 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,800 I just want to let you know I have all your films on tape, 646 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,680 and I watch them all the time. 647 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,760 And I want to ask you one question. 648 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,320 How do you do that thing when you, er...walk on the ceiling? 649 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,960 FRED ASTAIRE LAUGHS Dancing... 650 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,720 Really, I want to know, how did that work? 651 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,520 - The whole room and the camera turned. - So they both turned, right? 652 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,560 Yeah. 653 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,440 TAP DANCING 654 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,560 BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS 655 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,920 TAP DANCING 656 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Michael's dance is based on energy, 657 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,640 and he's... 658 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,280 He moves like an electric eel, he's got... 659 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,120 I think the adjective "electric" is good for him. 660 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,640 He's charged with energy. But he has the good... 661 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,680 inner sense, or wherever it comes from, his brain, wherever, 662 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,760 to just take it down and then up again quickly, 663 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,120 which good dancers naturally have. 664 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,600 I came out after the war, 665 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,720 after I was in the Navy, 666 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,960 and I wanted to dance for the common man, 667 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,680 I didn't want to dance in white tie or tuxedo and dressed up. 668 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,520 I wanted to roll up my sleeves and wear jeans and T-shirts. 669 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,680 The nearest thing I could get to dancing shoes were loafers. 670 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,240 And the white socks and the rolled-up jeans. 671 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,240 And he's dancing from the streets. 672 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,600 Like I was. I believe that. 673 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,360 I was a teenager, and I was getting older. 674 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,840 I started to really understand... 675 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,080 the power of dance. 676 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,720 The way he could spin, stop on a dime 677 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,600 and point with such intensity - that's the power I'm talking about. 678 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,480 And I'd perfect a certain amount of moves. 679 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,720 There is beauty in simplicity, in really stripping things down, 680 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,520 and I learned that from him. 681 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,440 He impacted everything for me, absolutely. 682 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,960 He impacted my game on the court, 683 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,000 he impacted me now to this day in how I learn. 684 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,720 Watching him was like something I'd never seen before. 685 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,840 Um... It was something that was magical, that was creative, 686 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,520 that seemed like something that I could mimic. 687 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,840 That's how I found my love for dance before I found classical ballet. 688 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,760 I used to ask him, "How much do you practise?" 689 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,680 He said, "You know, I would dance until I can't dance no more." 690 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,840 I said, "What do you mean?" 691 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,640 He said, "I'd dance till my legs physically could not move." 692 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,880 There's a lot of people who just don't have that same type of drive. 693 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,600 You see it in an artist like Beyonce, that kind of drive. 694 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,040 You know, a lot of times when it comes to black artists - 695 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,080 it happened with Basquiat, with Miles Davis, with Michael Jackson - 696 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,600 people talk about their kind of "natural gifts", 697 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,600 as if there is not a strategy and skill and craft, 698 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,520 as if Miles Davis didn't go to Juilliard, 699 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,800 or Basquiat didn't know who Monet and Renoir were, 700 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,520 or Michael Jackson hadn't been doing this his entire life. 701 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,240 Some of my favourite writers are Johnny Mercer, Irving Berlin, 702 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,800 George Gershwin, Duke Ellington, Count Basie... 703 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,440 Oh, no, you gotta put the work in, man, you gotta put the time in. 704 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,040 And really, man, it's love that you're putting in. 705 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,040 You know, cos people that do this kind of stuff, man, we love what we do. 706 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,240 This is dated November 6th, 1979. 707 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,160 He was on the road with his brothers on the Destiny tour. 708 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,080 "MJ will be my new name. No more Michael Jackson. 709 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,760 "I want a whole new character, a whole new look. 710 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,600 "I should be a totally different person. 711 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,160 "People should never think of me 712 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,800 "as the kid who sang ABC/I Want You Back. 713 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,160 "I should be a new, incredible 714 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,960 "actor-singer-dancer that will shock the world. 715 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,200 "I will do no interviews. I will be magic. 716 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,760 "I will be a perfectionist, a researcher, a trainer, a master. 717 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,080 "I will be better than every great actor roped in one. 718 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,160 "I must have the most incredible training system 719 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,640 "to dig and dig and dig until I find. 720 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,520 "I will study and look back on the whole world of entertainment 721 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:17,680 "and perfect it, 722 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,160 "take it steps further from where the greatest left off." 723 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,440 You guys are really riding a big high now as far as 724 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,080 producing records and so on. 725 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,880 Do you think this is the peak of your career now, or have you 726 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,840 gone down a little bit, or are you expecting bigger and better things? 727 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,320 - What are you looking forward to in the future, Michael? - Recording other artists, 728 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,240 and going into acting. We get a lot of scripts in, but... 729 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,920 we haven't found the exact script that we want to use. 730 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,120 - Mm-hm. - So we're picking and deciding. 731 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,560 Think you may be a big movie star one day, huh? 732 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,680 - Yeah, I'd like to give it a try. - Yeah. 733 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400 That's a good business to be in. You've got the looks, you know? 734 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,400 Fortunately I didn't... 735 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,880 - LAUGHTER - You know. 736 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,200 - What? - LAUGHTER 737 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,520 'With the advent of motion pictures came an abundance of Oz films. 738 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,120 'A 1925 version starred Oliver Hardy as the tin man. 739 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,200 'And who will ever forget the 1939 MGM musical version 740 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,240 'starring Judy Garland? 741 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,760 'In 1974, The Wiz opened on Broadway, 742 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,200 'winning seven Tony awards.' 743 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,000 I was a senior in high school. 744 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,680 And there was this girl named Barbara Hampton who I liked. 745 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,720 And I wanted to impress her. 746 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,440 I was working at Baskin Robbins. I just saved my money, 747 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,920 and I finally got up enough courage to ask her, 748 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,560 "Would you like to go see The Wiz with me? 749 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,600 "I got two great seats in the centre aisle." 750 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,600 She said, "Nah, I don't think so." 751 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,720 HE LAUGHS 752 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,680 Scalped them. 753 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,200 For double the price. 754 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,160 I took Michael the first time to see The Wiz, he went back 30 more times. 755 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,480 The Wiz, when it came out in 1978, was, er... 756 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,040 You know, Lumet's movie adaptation 757 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,680 of that great long-running play that was on Broadway 758 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,040 with Stephanie Mills. 759 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,880 # So it's real, real Real to me... # 760 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,520 There was a great debate, at least in my neighbourhood, 761 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,640 that Diana Ross was dope, 762 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,200 but the only reason they cast her was cos she's Diana Ross. 763 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,640 Stephanie Mills would have been a better fit for the film, 764 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,120 but for whatever reason, she didn't get the job. 765 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,600 We're not going to do it with an unknown young actress - 766 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,800 we have to have star power 767 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,360 to make it cross over. 768 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,960 It also was the most expensive movie ever made 769 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,640 with an all African-American cast. 770 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,360 So because of Car Wash and Sparkle, 771 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,360 you know, this happens in Hollywood, 772 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,560 were you designated as the go-to guy for black material? 773 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,440 - I was the black writer. - The black writer? 774 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,200 And Sidney was probably the number one American director 775 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,080 right then, cos he had done Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, 776 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,560 Network, Murder On The Orient Express, I think all in a row. 777 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,240 He was king, and definitely king of New York. 778 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:54,320 Michael was desperate to play the scarecrow. 779 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,240 Always wanted to have a film career, there was some rumour that he was 780 00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,080 supposed to start in the Frankie Lymon story that never happened. 781 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,920 The Wiz was supposed to be a huge film, 782 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,440 Diana Ross, his long-time pal, is starring in it. 783 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,160 He's no longer in Motown, and Michael called Berry Gordy. 784 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,120 We were doing The Wiz, Rob Cohen was handling it... 785 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,240 He was working for me at the time at Motown Productions. 786 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,160 It would have been very easy for him to say, 787 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,000 "Well, you know, Michael, you're gone now, 788 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,840 - "and I can find somebody else." - Hell, no! 789 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,120 Sidney was adamant that he didn't want Michael. 790 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,320 He felt Michael was over, and had been a cute little kid, 791 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,200 musical star, but hadn't grown into it, and I just said, 792 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,800 "You're making a mistake, and I want you to meet him." 793 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,920 Of course, Lumet fell in love with Michael. 794 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,480 Michael may be the purest talent I've ever seen. 795 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,360 He's incapable of a false moment, 796 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,600 he's so true that anything around him has to become true. 797 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,800 If you don't work honestly around him, you're going 798 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,120 to look as if you're faking it. 799 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,400 Well, yeah, he's all those things, plus this kid can dance 800 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,720 and sing like nobody else. 801 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,840 It was so obvious, the genius of this boy, 802 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,440 I mean, it was so effortless. 803 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,960 When I was real small, when I saw the original Wizard of Oz, 804 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,800 the Judy Garland version, I always fell in love with the scarecrow. 805 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,000 I think most kids do, because you feel sorry for him 806 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,560 and everything, and he's so... 807 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,560 his character, and I always watched them, 808 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,720 as a matter of fact, I had the step down that they did 809 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:16,760 when I was six, I would do it all around the house. 810 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,160 # Follow the yellow brick road! # 811 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,680 Ta-da! THEY GIGGLE 812 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,840 Whoo! Come on, Dorothy! 813 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,400 Come on! 814 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,680 Whoo! 815 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,680 # Come on and 816 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,960 # Ease on down Ease on down the road 817 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,000 # Come on 818 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,800 # Ease on down Ease on down the road 819 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,600 # Don't you carry nothing that might be a load 820 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,840 # Come on, ease on down Ease on down, down the road... # 821 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,560 As a matter of fact, that hill that we do 822 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,320 Ease On Down The Road on was going uphill, and Diana and me, 823 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,440 we were so out of breath, we had to do it a couple of times, really. 824 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,000 I mean, it was going straight up! 825 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,200 # ..keepin' on the road that you choose 826 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,200 # Don't you give up walkin' 827 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,160 # Cos you gave up shoes 828 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,600 # Yeah... # 829 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,840 He'd come in for a five-hour make-up call in the morning. 830 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,160 Get the make-up out of the way, right on the case, 831 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,400 he knew everybody's lines, everybody's songs, 832 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,800 he knew everybody's position, and he stood there almost at attention. 833 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,000 And I saw this uncanny-type discipline in such a young person. 834 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,960 Quincy, of course, was the musical director, 835 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,480 he was doing the score for The Wiz. 836 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,080 And you see him for a minute, right, 837 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,840 you see him for a minute conducting the band in the movie, 838 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,000 and I was a Quincy fan, you know, Smackwater Jack, 839 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,160 Walking In Space, Body Heat, all that stuff. 840 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,000 The Wiz seemed like a great combination 841 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,720 of all these things that he could do. 842 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,120 Lumet was very happy to have Quincy. We all were. 843 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,400 That just kind of guaranteed the musical portion 844 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,360 would hit a strong popular chord. 845 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,920 He didn't actually have a feature number in the film 846 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,280 when they hired him. 847 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,040 They didn't know about the dancing, a lot of things, and... 848 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,440 Eventually everybody came to understand what it was all about. 849 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,960 # You can't win 850 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,400 # You can't break even 851 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,880 # And you can't get out of the game 852 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,760 # People keep saying things are gonna change 853 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,240 # But they look just like they're staying the same... # 854 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:10,640 But I don't think they showed enough of his dancing. 855 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,320 The real night that Off The Wall was born... 856 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,160 We were doing the pre-records for the movie. 857 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,040 Quincy had, like, tunnel vision on Diana Ross. 858 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,040 Finally, about 2am... 859 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,200 Er... Q had what he wanted from Diana, and he goes, "OK, Michael, 860 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,160 "you come in on bar six." 861 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,840 - And Michael starts, like, at 1,000 watts. - # Whoo! Whoo! Ah! 862 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,440 - And he's doing everything... - # Ooh! # 863 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,360 ..that became the signature Michael Jackson. 864 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:39,520 Whoo! Aah! 865 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,640 HE LAUGHS 866 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,920 - Come on, Dorothy! - He was... 867 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,480 And it was like a lioness who just suddenly sees a baby goat. 868 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,640 HE LAUGHS 869 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,320 It was just...zoom! 870 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,400 The more I knew him, the more I became fascinated with 871 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,480 the idea of maybe working with him. 872 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,440 It was a lot of fun working with all the greats - 873 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,720 Sidney Lumet, Quincy Jones, everybody. 874 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:05,320 I may be, I don't know, one of the few people who really loved The Wiz. 875 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,600 There's some great representation on film that we hadn't seen before. 876 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,360 When The Wiz came out, I was seven years old. 877 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,600 That was an event for black America. 878 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,000 I can't speak for all of New York City, I can't speak for 879 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,440 all of the country, but everybody in my neighbourhood 880 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,000 in Harlem was going to see The Wiz because of Mike Jackson. 881 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,160 So this is a big moment for Michael Jackson, he gets to 882 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,160 fulfil his acting desires and he's finally in a big Hollywood film. 883 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,160 So he and his sister La Toya moved to New York. 884 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,720 I found him an apartment on 400 East 56th Street 885 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:36,120 off First Avenue. 886 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,920 In the summer of '77, a legendary summer, there were blackouts, 887 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,560 there was a serial killer, David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam, 888 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,800 who was doing all these random killings, people were terrified. 889 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,240 The first summer of disco, it was the time in which all of these 890 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:52,240 nascent music forms were coming up - punk, hip-hop, disco was huge. 891 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,680 And there are all these different elements that were 892 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,000 happening in New York at the same time that were sort of 893 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,680 coming in contact with each other or clashing with each other. 894 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,920 I have a feeling that's probably where he first heard 895 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,480 a lot of early hip-hop, the beatboxing that he was basically 896 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,880 doing on a song like Working Day and Night. Even though 897 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,560 he was only 19, he was going to Studio 54 on a regular basis. 898 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,160 Perhaps you've heard the name Studio 54. 899 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,040 It attracts the rich, the famous, the glamorous and the powerful. 900 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,480 They come to this disco palace in New York City 901 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,240 just about any night of the week. 902 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,880 He was making all kinds of eccentric and unusual friends that, 903 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,480 you know, now we see the photos of and it looks really strange. 904 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,080 He's hanging out with Liza Minnelli. 905 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,960 Hi, sweetheart! 906 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,480 - You're just hanging out in New York? - Yes, Studio 54. - Come here a lot? 907 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,480 - Oh, God, yes. - Why? - Because I like the atmosphere at Studio 54. 908 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,000 I've been to a lot of discotheques and I don't like them. 909 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,560 What's the difference? 910 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,880 I don't know, the feeling, I mean, the excitement of the props 911 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,200 coming down and the balcony, it's just exciting, honestly! 912 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,320 I'm certain that his experience and going to Studio 54 during the 913 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,160 filming of The Wiz 914 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,440 played a big part in where he wanted this album played. 915 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,000 It doesn't mean he wanted to make a disco record. 916 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,400 He is a dancer, he's a marvellous dancer. 917 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,840 He's an influential, innovative dancer. 918 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,960 Why do you dance for fun? 919 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,560 Because you're just being free then. 920 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,440 Most of the time it's set choreography when were on stage, 921 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,480 stuff you have to do every night. 922 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,800 When you dance here, you're just free, you dance with whoever 923 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,400 you want to, you just go wild! 924 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,840 What about the craziness? It gets crazy and wild... 925 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,800 No, it doesn't. 926 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,760 No, not only is it fun to dance, it's fun to look at, 927 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,240 you know, other people. 928 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,400 You walk around and you see all kinds of things, 929 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,400 like Darth Vader was here the other night! 930 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,880 It was incredible. 931 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,440 I'm sure he was making these observations 932 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,680 of what was going on around him. 933 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680 He was kind of self-conscious about himself and kind of shy. 934 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,680 So he wasn't trying to be around all the wildness, all the freakiness. 935 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,000 You know what I'm saying? 936 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,520 He would go in the DJ booth and just watch people 937 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,760 and make these mental notes. And I'm sure musical notes also. 938 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,520 I think all of this shows up on Off The Wall because it's certainly 939 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,600 one of the most sensual albums he ever released. 940 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,160 It contains the sort of exuberance and the sexuality. 941 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,920 It's where you come when you want to escape. It's really escapism. 942 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,920 When we left Motown, you know, a certain amount of hours 943 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,840 for The Jacksons and a certain amount for me as a solo artist. 944 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,760 He's coming out as an autonomous figure, 945 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,360 separate from his father, separate from his brothers, 946 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,040 and really establishing himself as a solo act. 947 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,840 I mean, there was some speculation, you know, 948 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,240 would Quincy be the right guy? 949 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,320 He's a jazz guy, would he be... You know. 950 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,400 They didn't think that he could make him a contemporary hit record 951 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,400 that everybody in the whole world would like. 952 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,640 Well, I don't think it's possible to sit down and try to intellectualise 953 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,800 or theorise about how you can make a record that can appeal 954 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,040 to many, many people. 955 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,600 The people in this room, you know, it's very difficult to try 956 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,080 and make a record that everybody in this room would like. 957 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,800 The label had other ideas about who he should go with. 958 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,360 They wanted Maurice White, was one of the people, 959 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,760 and they also wanted Gamble and Huff to work with him. 960 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,440 Michael came back all teary-eyed one day and said, 961 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,800 "The people at Epic don't want to use you. They said you're too jazzy, 962 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,440 "you know, you don't understand this kind of music." 963 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,880 But they don't know, you know, these guys don't know. 964 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,080 The A&R men, they're A&R men, they don't know! 965 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,000 Thank God he went back with Freddy DeMann and Ron Weiser 966 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,080 and they fought and they said, "He's doing it." 967 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,320 Quincy called me one day and said, 968 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,600 "we're going to do Michael Jackson's album, his first solo album," 969 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,920 and I thought to myself, "Holy cow, I better get serious." 970 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,400 Cos I don't get those kind of calls very often. 971 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,080 When you discover Off The Wall for the first time, forget all the 972 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,880 music for a second, let's just talk about the sonics, the sound of it. 973 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,960 The sonic of that album stands up against any album right now, period. 974 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,120 Because it's raw, it was before drum machines, 975 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,600 before heavy computer programming. 976 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,000 Making an album is totally different today than what it was, 977 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,440 because when we made those albums back in the day, 978 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,320 we had live musicians, live drummer. 979 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,160 That's where you get magic, you know? You get a little bit of magic. 980 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,160 And somebody's playing just a little bit under or something like that, 981 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,920 - that's all part of making the record breathe. - That's the pulse. 982 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,400 Yeah, it's the pulse, yeah. Today everything is right on. 983 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,040 Everything is right-on today. 984 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,400 These were, like, living, breathing recordings that... 985 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,800 were for the dance floor. 986 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,600 I mean, machines are great, but... 987 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,400 incredible musicians, I feel like, beat it every time. 988 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,480 I'm always telling engineers, like, "You better study and listen. 989 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,440 "If they were able to accomplish that type of fullness 990 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,120 "and that type of sound... they were able to do that then, 991 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,440 "you better be able to do something great now... 992 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:43,840 "or you're fired." 993 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,600 What Quincy has is an extraordinary history. 994 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,680 - He's leading the band behind Count Basie. - Working with Frank Sinatra. 995 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,240 - Sammy Davis Junior. - Pawnbroker. - Heat of the Night. - Sanford & Son. 996 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,000 He studied in France under a great orchestration. 997 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,640 Nadia Boulanger, who taught Ravel. 998 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,680 He's unlimited musically, he can... You want anything, he can do it. 999 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:09,120 Jazz, folk, pop, classical, soul, gospel, anything. 1000 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,320 Michael wrote three songs on the Off The Wall album - 1001 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,360 Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Working Day And Night 1002 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:16,840 and Get On The Floor. 1003 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,000 He wanted the freedom to develop as an artist 1004 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,400 and writing these three songs was very important to him. 1005 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,880 # Don't stop 'til you get enough 1006 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,400 # Keep on with your heart don't stop 1007 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,120 # Don't stop 'til you get enough 1008 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,000 # Keep on with your heart Don't stop... # 1009 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,560 The demos are kind of a revelation, in that they really illuminate 1010 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,400 Michael's abilities as a songwriter and show 1011 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,400 how developed his songs were when he brought them to Quincy Jones. 1012 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,720 You really see Michael's rhythmic sophistication. 1013 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,600 Dum-dum-du-dum. Dum-dum-du-dum. 1014 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:49,920 That's what did it. 1015 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,720 Boom-boom-da-doom. That's the phrase that pays. 1016 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:55,160 That's the hook right there. 1017 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,120 Michael ain't got to say a word yet, they could play that bassline 1018 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,920 and they can run it, nonstop. And we're good. 1019 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,480 The opening bars of the record is just like, 1020 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,240 you could be playing the worst set of your life, 1021 00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:12,760 or at a wedding, at a club, and... "dum-dum..." it's just like, "Ah!" 1022 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,800 You kind of get this little tick that's going on, 1023 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,000 anybody, they just down for it, 1024 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,320 even the guys try to be hard, like... 1025 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,960 You know, you just in there! 1026 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,880 You know, I was, I was wondering, you know, 1027 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,960 if you could keep on, 1028 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,120 because the force, it's got a lot of power, 1029 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,600 and it make me feel like, ah... 1030 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,160 it make me feel like... 1031 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,200 oooh! 1032 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,200 # Lovely 1033 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,440 # Is the feelin' now 1034 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,680 # Fever 1035 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,880 # Temperature's risin' now 1036 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,760 - # Power - Ah, power 1037 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,360 # Is the force, the vow 1038 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,400 # That makes it happen 1039 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,360 # It asks no questions why... # 1040 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,280 It's the song I use to reset my day, it's the song that I use 1041 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,800 when I need to be motivated, 1042 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,040 it's my absolute favourite Michael Jackson song. 1043 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,840 "These are my own songs, I'm going to communicate my own thoughts, 1044 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,680 "my own emotions, my own ideas, 1045 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,320 "my own rhythmic sensibility..." 1046 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,400 Vocal trademarks - you hear a lot of that in these songs, 1047 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,280 completely uninhibited. 1048 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,080 You feel his energy coming through because you feel that freedom. 1049 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,160 "Oooh!" 1050 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,840 That's the first time we heard that iconic yell. 1051 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,800 That's his "free at last!" 1052 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,640 I was in Buffalo with you, fantastic show, you darn near blinded me 1053 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,120 there, man, that thing is dynamite 1054 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,920 when you come out, they have to see that, you jumping out of there. 1055 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,320 Oh, "Don't Stop". 1056 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,840 Ooh! 1057 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,520 Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough had this kind of, this opening groove, 1058 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:10,680 and the opening groove 1059 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,320 kind of sets you off, if you were a dancer, you let that sink in. 1060 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,280 I always use Michael first and foremost as a vocal inspiration. 1061 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,000 And Off The Wall was definitely 1062 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,440 the one that made me feel like I could sing. 1063 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,280 I found my falsetto because of Off The Wall, 1064 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,640 Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough. 1065 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,640 # Lovely 1066 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,800 # Is the feelin' now 1067 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,480 # Fever 1068 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,600 # Temperature's risin' now 1069 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,240 # Power 1070 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,560 # Is the force, the vow 1071 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,880 # That makes it happen 1072 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,560 # It asks no questions why... # 1073 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,720 And it had these bizarre lyrics, to me, bizarre lyrics 1074 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:56,360 that were quoting Star Wars. 1075 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,080 I didn't even know he was saying, "Keep on with the force don't stop," 1076 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,480 I thought it was about forks. 1077 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,960 When I was a kid I was like, "Keep on with the forks!" 1078 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,440 I didn't know what the forks were! 1079 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,920 HE BEATBOXES 1080 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,440 Ow! 1081 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,440 Woo! 1082 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,080 I remember the video, I mean, he just looked like a million dollars. 1083 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,840 I think that's before they had a million dollars to spend. 1084 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,720 So it was done for relatively a small amount of money, 1085 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,120 and yet he had to single-handedly sell it. 1086 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,400 # There ain't nothing that you can do 1087 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,560 # Relax your mind 1088 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,320 # Lay back and groove with mine 1089 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,880 # You gotta feel that heat 1090 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,240 # And we can ride the boogie 1091 00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:45,560 # Share that beat of love 1092 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,160 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1093 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,840 - # Dance you into day - Sunlight 1094 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,560 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1095 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,000 # We're gonna rock the night away... # 1096 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,400 That was the skaters' anthem. 1097 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,920 There was a skate obsession in the United States in '79, '80, 1098 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,880 where it was like, "I'm going to roller-skate!" 1099 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,760 A good song to roller-skate should feel like the floor to your skates, 1100 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,920 it should be the foundation for all of that...flowing. 1101 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,040 # Just take it slow 1102 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,720 # Cos we got so far to go 1103 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:28,000 # When you feel that heat 1104 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,520 # And we're going to ride the boogie 1105 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,920 # Share that beat of love 1106 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:38,080 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1107 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,560 - # Dance you into day - Sunlight 1108 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,240 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1109 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:50,000 # Gonna rock the night away... # 1110 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,720 Rock With You seemed like there was symbolism behind the video. 1111 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:56,200 They had a halo around the angels, the shiny suit, 1112 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:57,880 he made that look cool. 1113 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,440 I could never pull that off. 1114 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,240 I can listen to Rock With You and know where I was 1115 00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:05,600 the first time I heard it, at Pegasus. 1116 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:10,680 When that song came on, people just stopped in the club. 1117 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,000 They just...froze. 1118 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,200 You know... And then slowly, 1119 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,600 one by one, they got on the dance floor. 1120 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:25,040 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1121 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,160 - # Girl - Sunlight 1122 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,400 - # Yes, rock with you Rock with you, yeah - All night 1123 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,560 # Rock the night away 1124 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,680 - # I wanna rock with you - All night 1125 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,040 - # Dance you into day - Sunlight 1126 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,880 # I wanna rock with you, yes 1127 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,400 # Rock the night away 1128 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,920 - # Just feel that beat, feel the beat - All night 1129 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,760 - # Rock you into day - Sunlight 1130 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,720 - # I wanna rock - All night 1131 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,840 # Rock the night away 1132 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:04,440 # Put 'em in the pocket, yeah 1133 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,200 - # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - All night 1134 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,040 - # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - Sunlight 1135 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,080 - # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - All night 1136 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,920 # I wanna rock with you 1137 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,560 # Come on, girl 1138 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,480 # Rock with me, come on and... 1139 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,000 # Heeeee... # 1140 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:35,960 It's up-tempo but it's smooth. That's fast. That's fast. 1141 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:40,000 It's hard to make up-tempo music where you can dance 1142 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,520 and be emotional at the same time. 1143 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,360 Most people just get into a groove 1144 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,160 so most of the time you don't get that much of a real song there, 1145 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,760 so they don't stand up as well as a good storytelling ballad. 1146 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,160 Through the years, you want stuff that's going to have legs, hold on, 1147 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,640 and his up-tempo really does hold on 1148 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,000 because he really crafted a real song on top of a great groove. 1149 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,040 I loop that breathing exercise on Working Day And Night, 1150 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,600 I loop that for at least a minute before I let that song go. 1151 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,560 Like, I hold people at bay, like I'm holding back 12 pit bulls... 1152 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,040 get 'em! 1153 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,080 Ow! 1154 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,280 I'm embarrassed to even say this 1155 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,520 but I used to dance by myself... Ha! ..to that song. 1156 00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:40,360 # Uh ah 1157 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,600 # Uh ah 1158 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,160 # Ooh ah 1159 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,600 # Ooh, my honey 1160 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,480 # You got me workin' day and night, ah 1161 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,320 # Ooh, my sugar 1162 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,240 # You got me workin' day and night, ah 1163 00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:05,680 # Scratch my shoulder 1164 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,680 # It's aching, make it feel all right, ah 1165 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,160 # When this is over 1166 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,080 # Lovin' you will be so right, ah, uh 1167 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,360 # I often wonder if lovin' you will be tonight 1168 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,680 # Well, uh 1169 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,160 # But what is love, girl 1170 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,360 # If I'm always out of sight, ooh! 1171 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,400 # That's why you got me workin' day and night 1172 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,000 # And I'll be workin' From sun up to midnight... # 1173 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,600 # You got me working day and night. # 1174 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,680 # You got me working Working day and night. # 1175 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,640 You could tell where he was rhythmically 1176 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,280 just by the ones he was writing. 1177 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,160 Really catchy, rhythmic dance songs. 1178 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,920 Michael's reference is certainly American R&B and soul and funk, 1179 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,200 but I also hear Africa in there. 1180 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:57,520 You have to also remember 1181 00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,600 The Jackson 5 toured Africa in the '70s. 1182 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,440 # You got me workin' day and night 1183 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,120 - # And I'll be workin' - Everybody! 1184 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,840 # From sun up to midnight 1185 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,200 - # You got me workin' Workin' day and night - Oh, no! 1186 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,280 # You got me workin' 1187 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,600 - # Workin' day and night - I'm so tired, tired 1188 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,680 # You got me workin' Workin' day and night... # 1189 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,440 - It's crazy... - MIMICS HORN LINE 1190 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,200 That was just the high watermark of horn lines to me. 1191 00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,280 There was all these instrumental stretches and breaks in these songs 1192 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,240 that give the musicians some shine too. 1193 00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:47,960 - David had this certain sound... - That bite. He bent it... 1194 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,200 He hit 'em so hard. 1195 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,840 OK, David! You got this! 1196 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:33,880 Sometimes he would take it upon himself 1197 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,680 to bring the rhythm that he wanted and that really influenced me. 1198 00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,880 He always had an idea of what he wanted every instrument 1199 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,160 to sound like, that's how he recorded. 1200 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,760 You came in a studio and he told the guitar player... 1201 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,880 SHE MIMICS "Working Day And Night" 1202 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,360 He would sing every part. 1203 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,880 He didn't play it. But he can sing it. 1204 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,880 And if you didn't play like he sang it, 1205 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,560 he would sing it till you played it like he sang it. 1206 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,000 Goddammit. 1207 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,800 I do believe deeply in perfection. 1208 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,200 I'm never satisfied. I'll cut a track, go back and back and back, 1209 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,000 "Darn it, I should have done this!" It's number one on the charts, 1210 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,200 still screaming about what you should have done. 1211 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,400 It's evident...when you see somebody's work, 1212 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,520 you can see the details and if they actually truly love what they do. 1213 00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,640 If they really do pay attention to the craft. 1214 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,320 Perfection was the name of the game, 1215 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,640 it's about the content of what you do. 1216 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,960 The quality, the heart, the soul, the love. 1217 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,480 I think this generation, the perception has become skewed. 1218 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,080 The love for the craft 1219 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:38,040 will come secondary to the love of fame and notoriety. 1220 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,400 My generation - the Jordan generation, 1221 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,320 Bird, Magic, Michael Jackson. 1222 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,360 They focused on what they loved to do. 1223 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,720 One of the hidden gems is Get On The Floor. 1224 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,600 Which was co-penned by Louis Johnson and co-written with Michael. 1225 00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,920 I don't know if everybody knows this but you're also a composer. 1226 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,320 One of my favourites was Michael Jackson's Get On The Floor. 1227 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,840 Originally that song was created by the bass, I just had that groove. 1228 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,760 There were routines in the playground 1229 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,240 and you know, I'm dating myself, OK, 1230 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,600 but you would bring the little radio, 1231 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,280 or sometimes if you were really tacky, you would bring the portable 1232 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:41,160 record player, plop it down in the park, drop the needle, heck yeah. 1233 00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,120 If you were dancing to that song, 1234 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,520 more than likely you were going home with somebody. 1235 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,360 Because that's not a song you dance on your own to. 1236 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,360 You don't dance to Get On The Floor by yourself. 1237 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,680 # Dance across the floor 1238 00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,760 # Cos there's a chance for chances 1239 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,320 # And the chance is choosin' 1240 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,040 # And I sure would like just to groove with you 1241 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,120 # So get on the floor 1242 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,400 # And dance with me... # 1243 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,600 Off The Wall is a DJ's dream. 1244 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,920 The A-side seems to have been tailor-made for the dance floor. 1245 01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,960 You basically have five songs. 1246 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,520 The first four songs on side one, 1247 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,520 and the first song on side two, Off The Wall. 1248 01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,040 My favourite record on Off The Wall - 1249 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:30,680 I like Off The Wall. 1250 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,600 That's one of my favourite records. 1251 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,680 I took a chance with a composer 1252 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,960 that I have loved his work for a long time, 1253 01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,440 and I could never figure out how he could be from Grimsby, England, 1254 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,760 living in Worms, Germany, and understand Ain't No Half-Steppin, 1255 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,440 you know, and all those different terms that he was writing. 1256 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,240 Just incredible talent. 1257 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,680 He ended up in Germany, and being turned on to soul music 1258 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,840 by a bunch of the black army people that were there. 1259 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,960 - INTERVIEWER: Black American soldiers? - Yeah. 1260 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,800 And going, "Wow, this is a lot more interesting than what I'm doing, 1261 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,320 "and girls come to these shows." 1262 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:01,840 In early Heatwave, 1263 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,120 you can hear those influences 1264 01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:05,640 in songs he wrote for Michael. 1265 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,720 I mean, it's just a natural progression. 1266 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,480 We recorded Burn This Disco Out, 1267 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,440 Off The Wall, and Rock With You. 1268 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:14,600 Wow. 1269 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:15,880 HE LAUGHS 1270 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:17,600 Rod Temperton did good. 1271 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,160 Off The Wall is an example of him bringing that 1272 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:24,400 slightly, like, proggy fusion aspect to it. 1273 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,880 It's a really unconventional start for a disco record, 1274 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720 especially, like, the title track of an album, it starts with that. 1275 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,800 It starts on the offbeat, it starts on the two, 1276 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,040 it has that weird vocal thing in the background. 1277 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,240 It's totally proggy. 1278 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,640 That intro with the kind of ghoulish voices and so on. 1279 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,880 You start to hear that again, of course, on Thriller, 1280 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,280 with the Vincent Price. 1281 01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,000 # When the world is on your shoulder 1282 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,480 # Gotta straighten up your act and boogie down 1283 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,000 # If you can't get with the feeling 1284 01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,480 # Then there ain't no-one who's gonna put you down 1285 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,200 # Cos we're the party people night and day 1286 01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,000 # Livin' crazy, that's the only way 1287 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,840 # So tonight 1288 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,160 # Gotta leave that nine to five up on the shelf 1289 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,480 # And just enjoy yourself 1290 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,080 # Groove 1291 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,840 # Let the madness in the music get to you 1292 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,720 # Life ain't so bad at all 1293 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,560 # If you live it off the wall 1294 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,880 # Life ain't so bad at all 1295 01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:28,000 # Ooh 1296 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,120 - # Live your life off the wall - Yeah 1297 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,840 # Do what you want to do 1298 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,760 # There ain't no rules 1299 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,480 - # It's up to you - Ain't no rules, it's all up to you 1300 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,080 # It's time to come alive 1301 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:45,000 # And party on right through the night. # 1302 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,280 Girlfriend was a song on the London Town album by Paul McCartney. 1303 01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,840 "Girlfriend, I'mma tell your boyfriend." 1304 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:57,600 - SHE LAUGHS - Love it. 1305 01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,880 # Girlfriend 1306 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:03,160 # I'm gonna tell your boyfriend 1307 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,200 # Yeah... # 1308 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,000 I felt like Michael was singing to me on that one, I did. 1309 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,400 If we go out together and a bunch of girls start following me, 1310 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,720 let's hear what you'd say to them to make them go away. 1311 01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,800 Get away from him. He's mine, not yours. 1312 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,400 LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE 1313 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,480 Um, same question, number two. 1314 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,280 Yo, listen, OK? Michael Jackson is mine! 1315 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,280 LAUGHTER 1316 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,920 Some of the songs that I sing, my favourite is ballads - 1317 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,080 I kind of listen to the words, 1318 01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,120 and it's really relating something. 1319 01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,240 I wrote She's Out Of My Life as a result of being 1320 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,120 very much in love with a wonderful young woman. 1321 01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,960 You ever get so upset that you're speaking to yourself out loud? 1322 01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,040 Well, I was. I was in the car, on the Pasadena freeway, 1323 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,600 and I'm saying, "Man, she was there for you, 1324 01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,840 "she loved you, she wanted to marry you. 1325 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,200 "You're the one who said no. Face it, she's out of your life." 1326 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,000 Saturday morning, the phone rings, and it's Q, and he says, 1327 01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,400 "Hey, man, you been writing?" And I played the song, 1328 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,000 and it's ringing out, and he said, "Play it again." 1329 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,600 I played it again. Played it eight times in a row. 1330 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,000 At the end of it he said, "What are you going to do with it?" 1331 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,400 I said, "Well, I made a deal with Snuffy yesterday. 1332 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,200 "He's going to do it with Sinatra." 1333 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,200 And he says, this Q-ism, 1334 01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,440 "Sinatra'll do it anyway." And I said, 1335 01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,280 "OK, Q, then who do you want to do it with?" 1336 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,640 He said, "I haven't got a clue." He said, "Man, if you'll trust me, 1337 01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,120 "I promise you 1338 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,560 "an unforgettable recording of this song." 1339 01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,840 And we sat on it for almost two years, Spike. 1340 01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,320 To write a great ballad, first of all, lyrically, 1341 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,160 the content has to connect, and to me, 1342 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,400 part of what makes a song connect 1343 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,840 is that it's personal, 1344 01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:53,960 but it's also universal. 1345 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,040 Michael Jackson - yes, he was a great entertainer, 1346 01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,440 he was a great dancer, 1347 01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,360 but he was also a great singer. 1348 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,800 Not a good singer, but a great singer. 1349 01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,480 I liked his performance on She's Out Of My Life. 1350 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,360 It was really emotional. 1351 01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,400 The quality of Michael's voice 1352 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,800 was so incredibly pure. 1353 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,640 # She's out of my life 1354 01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:27,600 # She's out of my life 1355 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:35,680 # And I don't know whether to laugh or cry 1356 01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:42,760 # I don't know whether to live or die 1357 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:47,720 # And it cuts like a knife 1358 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:53,480 # She's out of my life. # 1359 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,000 I cried every time that he performed She's Out Of My Life, 1360 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,040 and he would cry, too. 1361 01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,800 Everyone relates She's Out Of My Life to Eddie Murphy, right? 1362 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,160 Anyone who was growing up in the '80s - we saw Delirious first. 1363 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,480 That's Michael's hook, is his sensitivity. 1364 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,120 Lots of women be saying, "Michael's just so sensitive." 1365 01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:11,200 LAUGHTER 1366 01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,680 They eat that shit up. Mike knows, too. He be using women. 1367 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,640 In concerts I've seen Mike walk up to girls in the audience and say... 1368 01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:18,640 Can I come down there? 1369 01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,040 And the women go, "Ahhhhhhh!" 1370 01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,040 APPLAUSE 1371 01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,920 Then if you don't scream, Michael'll get real sensitive 1372 01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:27,840 and cry on your ass. 1373 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,640 Ever hear that record She's Out Of My Life? Michael go... 1374 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,880 - IMITATING MICHAEL'S VOICE: - # So I've learned 1375 01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,800 # That love's not possession 1376 01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,920 # And I've learned 1377 01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,000 # That love won't wait... # 1378 01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,080 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 1379 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,520 # Now I've learned 1380 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,640 # That love needs expression 1381 01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:54,240 # But I've learned too late 1382 01:06:54,240 --> 01:07:00,880 # And she's out of my life 1383 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:10,160 # She's out of my life 1384 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,400 # Damned indecision 1385 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,000 # And cursed pride 1386 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,080 # Kept my love for her 1387 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,560 # Locked deep inside 1388 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:30,640 # And it cuts like a knife 1389 01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:37,800 # She's out of my... 1390 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,400 CROWD SCREAMS 1391 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:05,000 # Life 1392 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:11,720 # Mmmm, mmmm... # 1393 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,400 CROWD SCREAMS AND CHEERS 1394 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,280 HE SOBS 1395 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,760 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 1396 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,480 HE SOBS 1397 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,080 - IMITATING MICHAEL'S VOICE: - Tito, get me some tissue. 1398 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,280 And I had an opportunity to listen to the stems 1399 01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,040 where he's trying different takes, 1400 01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,840 and he actually apologises 1401 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:44,280 for messing the song up. 1402 01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:48,160 I'm sorry I messed it up. 1403 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,320 It was amazing, cos every time he sang it he cried, 1404 01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,000 and I was trying to pick out what relationship he had, you know, 1405 01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:54,520 that he could identify with that. 1406 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,160 He did it two or three times and said, 1407 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,960 "That's the way it's supposed to be," and just let it stay in there. 1408 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,480 A lesser producer would have milked it for all it's worth, 1409 01:09:01,480 --> 01:09:04,240 milked all that drama for all it's worth. 1410 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,720 Like, trust me, if Puffy were producing 1411 01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,120 - She's Out Of My Life... - LAUGHTER 1412 01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:10,800 Puffy would have had the whole... 1413 01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,760 He would've had Kleenex, like, sponsor the tour. 1414 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,760 You had people talking about, "Well, what was he crying about?" 1415 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,400 Who was he talking about? Is he talking about Brooke Shields? 1416 01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:21,800 What girl is he talking about? 1417 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,040 You know, is he still talking about Ben, that rat? 1418 01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,720 We'd seen him out publicly with Stephanie Mills, 1419 01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:28,600 we'd seen him out with Tatum O'Neal, 1420 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,840 with Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch. 1421 01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,480 Girls would get together, like, 1422 01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:34,920 "I wonder who he's talking about," you know what I mean? 1423 01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,880 And you would look at the Tiger Beat magazine 1424 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,920 to look for the gossip and everything. 1425 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,560 "Who made Michael cry?" That's how we took it. 1426 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,760 Not that I made Michael cry, cos I would never make Michael cry. 1427 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,240 She's Out Of My Life is, 1428 01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:50,160 in my opinion, 1429 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,240 one of the two songs on Off The Wall 1430 01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,680 that there's nothing on Thriller that tops it. 1431 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,720 Quiet storm was huge in the 1970s, 1432 01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,240 which was a kind of radio format of black music 1433 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,000 that celebrated intimacy and sensuality and ambience, 1434 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,280 softness and quietude. 1435 01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,880 Can't Help It was really the quiet storm demographic, right? 1436 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,480 It was really the kind of late-night boudoir romance thing. 1437 01:10:09,480 --> 01:10:13,280 It's the first time that you really hear Michael sounding like... 1438 01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,200 to me, sounding like an adult. 1439 01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,880 And sounding outside of his R&B thing. 1440 01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,360 It's jazzy. 1441 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,280 Susaye Greene had started working on it. 1442 01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,840 She was in The Supremes, and had also sung with Stevie. 1443 01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,520 It could have fit on Songs In The Key Of Life, really. 1444 01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,640 That was supposed to be one of the songs on Songs In The Key Of Life. 1445 01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,160 - Ooh! - See, I didn't know that! 1446 01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:33,560 He had the... 1447 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,240 - SHE SINGS: - "I can't help it if I wanted to" - the hook. 1448 01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,240 Yeah, I think she wrote a lot of the lyrics 1449 01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:39,880 when we actually were in the studio, 1450 01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:41,680 - messing around with it. - That's right. 1451 01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,240 HE HUMS I Can't Help It 1452 01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,520 # I can't, mmm, mmm... # 1453 01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,720 HE HUMS 1454 01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:01,520 I Can't Help It is my favourite. Stevie overdid it with that song. 1455 01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,480 The nature of the chords is very nocturnal, you know? 1456 01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:06,400 It doesn't sound like a sunny day to me. 1457 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:11,080 It sounds like a beautiful paradise evening, 1458 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,160 somewhere untainted by the humans, you know? 1459 01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,360 Mystical world. 1460 01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,680 You know, unicorns walking past and shit. 1461 01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,520 My sister Renee had been hearing me play this cassette. 1462 01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,240 She and Michael were friends. 1463 01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,080 And she took it over to let Michael hear it, 1464 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:29,920 and I think it was great that he did it. 1465 01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,840 I mean, really, he did an incredible job. 1466 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:33,600 The melodies are very seductive. 1467 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:36,720 They carry some of those signature Stevie lines, 1468 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,880 but also the signature Stevie chords. 1469 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,600 I really believed in the album. 1470 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,720 First of all, I believe in Michael Jackson. 1471 01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,760 Stevie Wonder. Love Stevie Wonder. 1472 01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,440 Being with Stevie Wonder. Being in his sessions, 1473 01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:50,720 just sitting in and learning, just is incredible. 1474 01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,520 You could put on I Can't Help It now and I'd still find something 1475 01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,680 I haven't heard, or it will remind me of something, 1476 01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,000 or the warmth of the bassline would just be, like... 1477 01:11:58,000 --> 01:11:59,520 just kind of wash over you. 1478 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,160 It's just, like, you don't get sick of that music. 1479 01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:06,880 I did a record back in 1977. 1480 01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,000 We did It's The Falling In Love. 1481 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,160 - We co-wrote it together, and I know you played on it. - Yep. 1482 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,920 - I think my record served as a nice... - Demo. - As a demo. 1483 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:20,160 Patti Austin was a singer in the Quincy Jones arsenal. 1484 01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,880 The very first time that I've heard Patti Austin's voice 1485 01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,080 was It's The Falling In Love. 1486 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,680 The thing that really steeps a record in its era 1487 01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,680 and that can make it sound dated is relying heavily 1488 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,160 on very specific technology of the time. 1489 01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,080 And in the '80s, it was very much about '80s reverbs. 1490 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,560 In the late '70s, you had these big, massive disco claps. 1491 01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,120 This album was perhaps, maybe, 1492 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,560 one false step away from being a very dated disco record. 1493 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,040 Didn't have any of those, like, tricks or gimmicks. 1494 01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,920 It was pretty much... Even though it was immaculately arranged, 1495 01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,240 and all the percussive parts, 1496 01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,160 and all the way the parts worked together, 1497 01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,840 there's nothing other than a bunch of dudes 1498 01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,640 playing the shit out of a song in a room. That will never date. 1499 01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:01,400 In a lot of ways Off The Wall 1500 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,880 is probably the culmination 1501 01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,760 of classic disco. 1502 01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,560 Came out in August 1979 - 1503 01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,600 the Disco Sucks movement started just the month before in July, 1504 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,240 where shock DJ Steve Dahl in Chicago 1505 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,040 gathered a lot of people together 1506 01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,840 at Comiskey Park in Chicago to burn disco records, 1507 01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,240 which was a really, I think, implicitly racist 1508 01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,480 and kind of homophobic movement. 1509 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,760 People wanted to shift the dial of popular music 1510 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,080 back to where they felt comfortable, 1511 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,800 which was not black, not gay, not Latino. 1512 01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,480 Burn This Disco Out actually might have been an apt title, 1513 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:41,680 because it was coming literally at the end of the disco era. 1514 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,240 Just at the edge of being a disco record, 1515 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,240 but moving the genre forward. 1516 01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:50,240 Far from the disco factory music 1517 01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,240 that was just churning out factory beats. 1518 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,920 You can feel that kind of visceral energy. 1519 01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,760 I mean, Off The Wall really is like lightning in a bottle. 1520 01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,880 You really capture Michael Jackson at 20 years old 1521 01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,640 with all of that excitement and energy and passion. 1522 01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,000 That still really comes through on that record. 1523 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,640 This is the very last 8-track that my parents bought me 1524 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,560 before I stopped buying 8-tracks. 1525 01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,080 I remember Off The Wall coming out 1526 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,840 the second week of August in 1979. 1527 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:20,680 Departure album is sort of an album that is in a person's canon 1528 01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:24,200 in their career of which they make a 180 turn 1529 01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:25,880 from what they were known from. 1530 01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:27,960 He was no longer the teenybopper act, 1531 01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,000 he was no longer the socially shy, awkward, maladjusted guy with acne. 1532 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,880 He was suddenly exuberant, confident. 1533 01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:36,920 You look at the album cover of Off The Wall - 1534 01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,240 it's like his prom picture. He's in a suit and tie 1535 01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,400 in a kind of Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis mould. 1536 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,080 Now he's this freewheeling playboy 1537 01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,400 that you can imagine out on the streets of New York. 1538 01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:46,800 Again, life-changing. 1539 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,600 I think sophisticated, 1540 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,240 I think glamour, 1541 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:52,120 I think provocateur, 1542 01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,400 I think everything that I wanted to be. 1543 01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,600 Oh, yeah, I'm interested in promotion. 1544 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,600 I want to do things that have never been done before. 1545 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,040 If it wasn't for promotion, who would know about The Jackson 5? 1546 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,600 Who would know that we exist? 1547 01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,040 I wouldn't be able to translate my music to different countries - 1548 01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,200 Africa, Japan, New Zealand, Scotland, 1549 01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,520 all the way to Australia. 1550 01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,040 There is a universal core in music that I think transcends 1551 01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:19,440 even what a crossover is about. 1552 01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:22,640 Here we view a crossover as being, you know, black and white markets, 1553 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,480 which we've been faced with for years, 1554 01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:26,800 but I think Michael's thing went even past that. 1555 01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,600 When you get into Argentina and Israel and Spain 1556 01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,280 and Scandinavia and Australia. 1557 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,680 I tell people fashion and music is a universal language. 1558 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:35,400 Wherever you go, you're going to hear 1559 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,120 the same songs in certain countries, 1560 01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,280 and when people come together for those songs, 1561 01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,040 they're all happy, they're all at peace. 1562 01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:42,920 Cos a lot of people don't even speak English 1563 01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,160 when you travel the globe, but they know the song, 1564 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,840 they know the music, and they'll learn the lyrics somehow. 1565 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:49,880 And that's just so wonderful, 1566 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,600 how you can bring people together just through your music. 1567 01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,160 Michael Jackson can come out on stage and not say anything, 1568 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:58,160 and you'd know that he cared. 100,000 people in an Olympic stadium 1569 01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:59,720 feel that he's right there for them. 1570 01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:01,240 Everyone thinks, you know, 1571 01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,880 like, they've had such a personal connection with him. 1572 01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,320 But that's how great he was. 1573 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:07,960 He made you feel like that. 1574 01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,040 Michael just inspired me to be a better person. 1575 01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:12,520 I actually do believe that the blessing that the Lord 1576 01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,560 gave this family, the musical blessing - 1577 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:16,800 the true mission behind all of that, I believe, 1578 01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,520 is to unify the world together through your music as one. 1579 01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,800 And it's about changing the world 1580 01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,520 for a better place for our kids to grow up in. 1581 01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,760 He had seen what had happened to artists like 1582 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,640 James Brown, Little Richard, Jackie Wilson - 1583 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,960 sometimes the industry wasn't fair to black artists. 1584 01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:33,880 I remember fighting in a meeting, like, 1585 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,680 "How come Michael's not on the cover of People magazine? 1586 01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,000 "How come he's not on the cover of Us? 1587 01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,200 Pop radio stations didn't want to play Off The Wall in the beginning. 1588 01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:43,720 Publicity lady would tell me, 1589 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,800 "Well, if a black person is put on the cover of these magazines, 1590 01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,240 "they won't sell." 1591 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,280 Michael Jackson is a viable artist all by himself, 1592 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,440 and if they gave him the opportunity, 1593 01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:56,400 he could win the radio stations over. And he did. 1594 01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,600 He just made us feel like this is... 1595 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,240 Where we are is where we always were. And we weren't. 1596 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,840 There are kids that, like, were born when Obama was in office, 1597 01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,840 so they don't understand a world where there was a white president. 1598 01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,640 They don't even know what that feels like. 1599 01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:13,200 I didn't know what it felt like to not have black pop artists, 1600 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,680 because he made us feel and believe that 1601 01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,000 that was just the norm. 1602 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,760 He took black music to a place where it became human music. 1603 01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,080 Music has no colour, 1604 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:24,760 and it shouldn't have colour, 1605 01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:26,640 and I don't believe in that. 1606 01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:29,560 What I do, I don't want it labelled black or white. 1607 01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:31,760 I want it labelled, it's music. 1608 01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,320 It was a simpler time, 1609 01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,520 and radio had everything to do with it. 1610 01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:39,560 Hey, let's go out with some up-tempo first, 1611 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,160 get ourselves positioned, bang, then we'll come in with that ballad. 1612 01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,280 And you know, you'll go gold. You'll go platinum. 1613 01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:49,200 Four singles in the top 10 and Billboard, 1614 01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,800 not counting it being number one on R&B radio stations. 1615 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,520 It had never been done before. 1616 01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,320 Some people looked at it as a disco album, 1617 01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:58,720 which in retrospect is kind of foolish, 1618 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,440 because it's one of the most 1619 01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:03,080 creatively influential albums in history. 1620 01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:07,040 You look back at the awards for Off The Wall, they're R&B awards. 1621 01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,440 The music industry, still very segregated at the time, 1622 01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:13,720 and Michael was only nominated for R&B awards, and he won. 1623 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,920 # Fever 1624 01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,560 # Temperature's risin' now 1625 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,240 # Power Oh, power 1626 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:28,200 # Is the force, the vow... # 1627 01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:30,600 He thought it wasn't fair. 1628 01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,600 He thought they'd snubbed him. It wasn't fair. 1629 01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,160 He came and he told me, he said, 1630 01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:37,400 "Mother, next year, they're going to have to give it to me." 1631 01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,040 - INTERVIEWER: - And that was Thriller, huh? - That's right. 1632 01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,600 Off The Wall really kind of set the blueprint for R&B, 1633 01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,800 and I think most artists today acknowledge that. 1634 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,200 It's hard to come up with something fresh and new all the time. 1635 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,240 They go back and they say, "What was great? 1636 01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:53,800 "What was done that was just great?" 1637 01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,320 And they find themselves listening to Off The Wall. 1638 01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,960 And then they take a little piece, and they say, 1639 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:01,320 "See how he did this? We've got to do that. 1640 01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,680 "See how they made this sound? We've got to do that." 1641 01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:05,120 I do that, so I know. 1642 01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:07,680 That album, you hear it in music all the time. 1643 01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:09,720 Pharrell to Justin Timberlake. 1644 01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,560 My music would not be here if it weren't for his influence, 1645 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,000 Off The Wall and the next album after that as well. 1646 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:16,600 Like, I wouldn't have music. 1647 01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,920 I don't think there's any way there's any other record 1648 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,800 I've played more music from, in the course of 20 years of DJing. 1649 01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:26,680 10,000 to 15,000 times, I have released the vinyl on those songs. 1650 01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,080 Off The Wall is the album I still play to this day. 1651 01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:30,640 It's the album that I put on 1652 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,720 when I want to teach my daughter how to dance. 1653 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,320 It was soul music's epoch of magic realism. 1654 01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:38,400 And when I say magic realism, I mean it was transformative. 1655 01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:39,920 It takes you someplace else. 1656 01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,040 It's so rich, musically. 1657 01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,640 The arrangements, the singing, the background vocals. 1658 01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,320 Michael taught me, melody's king. 1659 01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,960 He was like, babies don't sing lyrics. 1660 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:51,440 They hum melody. 1661 01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:53,400 A-B-C-D-E-F-G - 1662 01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:55,760 they may not know all the letters in the alphabet, 1663 01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:57,760 but they know that melody to that song. 1664 01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,080 That was the way I saw music. 1665 01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,480 I always saw music as, like, these little portals. 1666 01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:02,840 It's like, you listen to a song - 1667 01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,160 OK, I'm going to take you into this land, every time. 1668 01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,480 In its first year alone, that album sold over six million copies. 1669 01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:11,280 It's been overshadowed because of the Thriller album. 1670 01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,440 There would be no Thriller without Off The Wall. Everybody knows that. 1671 01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:17,480 When he went into the studio to make Thriller, he was intent, 1672 01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:20,240 actually intent, on making the biggest album in history. 1673 01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,280 And the amazing thing is that he actually did. 1674 01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:24,800 Whatever your top game was, you're going on top of that one. 1675 01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:26,120 That was his gift. 1676 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:28,720 You're dealing with a true artist. 1677 01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,040 Devoted to the art, 1678 01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:32,960 and everything else is secondary. 1679 01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,440 I think it's very easy for people to get sidetracked, 1680 01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:37,440 and talk about his complexion. 1681 01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:41,920 No, focus on what this man was and how he was that. 1682 01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:43,880 And how you can learn from that. 1683 01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,360 You approach things the way he approached music, 1684 01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:49,640 then you will be phenomenal. 1685 01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:52,640 And the idea of being separated from your brothers, does that hurt? 1686 01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:55,920 No, it doesn't. 1687 01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,600 It, um... 1688 01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,960 Cos there are other kinds of sounds and music that I love to do. 1689 01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,760 It hurts when it's inside of me 1690 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,000 and it can't get out and it's hidden from the world. 1691 01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:08,600 When I do those solo albums 1692 01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,560 and I'm doing all kinds of different music, it's wonderful, 1693 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,080 I feel like I'm accomplishing what I'm supposed to do. 1694 01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,840 And you don't feel guilty or worried about your brothers? 1695 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,560 No, cos they understand. 1696 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,520 Why hide something, why hide it? Share it. 1697 01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,760 Off The Wall will live for ever. 1698 01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,440 That was 1979, but this is just the beginning for that record. 1699 01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:33,080 It's just the beginning. 1700 01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:39,720 New people will explore and discover it today and tomorrow 1701 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:42,440 and it'll be something new to them today and tomorrow. 1702 01:21:42,440 --> 01:21:44,000 It's just the beginning. 1703 01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,800 He transcended sexual barriers, 1704 01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:50,640 racial barriers, he brought everybody, 1705 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:55,080 brought in everybody, old people, young people, gay, straight. 1706 01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,640 I mean, wherever you went, there was a smile. 1707 01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,640 But the beauty of his artistry and what he has left us with 1708 01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:04,760 so much joy and, like, 1709 01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,160 so much thankfulness... 1710 01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:11,640 ..for all that he had given to me. 1711 01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,080 You know, given to everybody, but... 1712 01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:16,600 I'm just going to be selfish here for a moment, 1713 01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:21,560 what he gave to me, and I'm glad that I found that joy again 1714 01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:26,160 and I think that, in that way, his spirit is still with me. 1715 01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:28,680 He surpassed what I... 1716 01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:31,800 ..ever expected of him. 1717 01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,640 I expected a great deal of him, and he surpassed that. 1718 01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,200 There's an element of God that's in people. 1719 01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:42,160 Some people, God laid his hand on longer and held it there. 1720 01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:46,480 Secretly and privately, really deep within, there's a destiny. 1721 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:51,320 And just for me to stay on that track and follow it. 1722 01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,000 I really believe and feel I'm here for a reason 1723 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,960 and that's my job, you know, to perform for other people, 1724 01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,200 and if they accept it, I'm rewarded. 1725 01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:05,360 If they want to put me up on that pedestal, I feel even better. 1726 01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:07,080 Do you ever want to stop? 1727 01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,240 No, don't stop 'til you get enough! 1728 01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:12,800 - And you haven't had enough? - No way! No way. 1729 01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,240 SONG: Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough by Michael Jackson 1730 01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:17,160 Don't stop till you get enough. 1731 01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:18,680 Whoo! 1732 01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,040 # Lovely 1733 01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,960 # Is the feelin' now 1734 01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,720 # Fever 1735 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:48,880 # Temperatures risin' now 1736 01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:51,920 # Power 1737 01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,080 # Is the force, the vow 1738 01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:59,320 # That makes it happen 1739 01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,120 # It asks no questions why... # 1740 01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:28,880 CROWD CHEERS 1741 01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,000 CROWD CHEERS 1742 01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,640 CROWD CHEERS AND YELLS 1743 01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,080 SCREAMING AND CHEERING 1744 01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,080 Man, Brooklyn... 1745 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:12,560 ..this feels so good. 1746 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:14,400 Brooklyn, we love you, Michael, yes? 1747 01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,920 CROWD SCREAMS AND CHEERS 1748 01:26:18,305 --> 01:26:24,478 Craving big poker? Feast your eyes on Venom. $5 million GTD. AmericasCardroom.com