1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:13,143 --> 00:00:15,363 [cool music] 4 00:00:17,017 --> 00:00:19,889 [crickets chirping] 5 00:00:23,545 --> 00:00:25,808 [dial pad tone] 6 00:00:25,938 --> 00:00:28,593 [phone ringing] 7 00:00:37,211 --> 00:00:38,429 - [Automatic message] Your call has been forwarded 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,866 to an automatic voice message system. 9 00:00:42,085 --> 00:00:46,394 - [Carol] Mum, I just need you to call me back, please. 10 00:00:46,524 --> 00:00:48,526 I really need to talk to you as soon as you get a minute, 11 00:00:48,657 --> 00:00:49,962 if you could just call me back that would be great. 12 00:00:50,093 --> 00:00:51,181 I love you, bye. 13 00:00:51,268 --> 00:00:53,618 [cool music] 14 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:59,407 - I heard the voicemails that Carol left my mom 15 00:00:59,537 --> 00:01:01,670 the morning of May 20th. 16 00:01:03,889 --> 00:01:06,022 My mom of course, didn't get these voicemails 17 00:01:06,153 --> 00:01:07,850 till later in the day. 18 00:01:08,894 --> 00:01:10,548 [dial pad tone] 19 00:01:10,679 --> 00:01:13,899 [phone ringing] 20 00:01:14,030 --> 00:01:17,512 - [Carol] Please, please. 21 00:01:17,642 --> 00:01:18,730 - [Automatic message] Your call has been forwarded 22 00:01:18,861 --> 00:01:22,473 to an automatic voice message system. 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,651 - [Carol] Mum, I don't know what to do anymore, mum. 24 00:01:29,698 --> 00:01:31,830 [mumbles] 25 00:01:34,616 --> 00:01:38,663 Mom, I think I really need some help, I'm so scared, 26 00:01:40,230 --> 00:01:42,014 things are so weird over here. 27 00:01:45,931 --> 00:01:49,370 Can you just, call me back. 28 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:51,937 I just need you to call me back, I can't live by. 29 00:01:53,156 --> 00:01:55,202 [cool music] 30 00:02:00,381 --> 00:02:04,211 - It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear my sister, 31 00:02:04,341 --> 00:02:08,215 it's so much pain, she was hurting so bad. 32 00:02:10,347 --> 00:02:14,482 She needed out, and unfortunately, she didn't call me. 33 00:02:15,265 --> 00:02:17,659 [cool music] 34 00:02:36,112 --> 00:02:38,375 - When I first heard that Carol harmed her daughters, 35 00:02:38,506 --> 00:02:40,551 I knew she was sick, 36 00:02:40,682 --> 00:02:43,250 I knew there's something wrong with her. 37 00:02:43,380 --> 00:02:45,426 She would never harm her child. 38 00:02:45,556 --> 00:02:47,036 You don't do this on purpose. 39 00:02:48,298 --> 00:02:50,648 [cool music] 40 00:02:51,910 --> 00:02:53,173 - Who in their right mind 41 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:55,131 could do this to their own kids? Who? 42 00:02:57,046 --> 00:03:00,049 If there's a person out there, I hope I never meet over, 43 00:03:01,268 --> 00:03:03,487 Carol wasn't that person to me. 44 00:03:03,618 --> 00:03:05,968 [cool music] 45 00:03:15,064 --> 00:03:18,154 [baby crying] 46 00:03:18,285 --> 00:03:22,941 - [Rudy] Hi, Yazzie [mumbling] I'm recording. 47 00:03:25,509 --> 00:03:26,554 Yazzie and mommy. 48 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:30,601 Carol was one of the sweetest, 49 00:03:30,732 --> 00:03:34,344 greatest people you would ever, ever can encounter with. 50 00:03:36,738 --> 00:03:38,305 She was a great mom. 51 00:03:39,175 --> 00:03:40,742 She was always there for my daughters. 52 00:03:43,179 --> 00:03:45,442 - Carol was extremely beautiful. 53 00:03:45,573 --> 00:03:49,229 She was not only beautiful but she was also very sweet. 54 00:03:49,359 --> 00:03:51,143 She was very genuine. 55 00:03:51,274 --> 00:03:55,496 What you see is what you get with her, she was very gentle. 56 00:03:55,626 --> 00:03:58,412 Even her voice is very soft. 57 00:03:58,542 --> 00:04:01,632 I can't imagine Carol ever raising her voice. 58 00:04:01,763 --> 00:04:03,939 - [Carol] Yazmine what you doing, 59 00:04:04,026 --> 00:04:08,030 lemme see that [talking in baby tone]. 60 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,901 Yeah, mummy see that. 61 00:04:11,381 --> 00:04:13,165 - Carol was an amazing mom. 62 00:04:13,296 --> 00:04:16,821 She loves her baby girls so much. 63 00:04:16,908 --> 00:04:18,997 - Sophia, Sophia hide, hide. - [Rudy] Where's Sophie? 64 00:04:21,348 --> 00:04:22,262 She probably cooking. 65 00:04:25,308 --> 00:04:27,223 - You now you're gonna wait for me to turn. 66 00:04:28,398 --> 00:04:30,748 [cool music] 67 00:04:34,448 --> 00:04:39,061 - She always had either Yazzie or Sophie in her arms, right. 68 00:04:40,323 --> 00:04:41,585 So she adored her kiddos. 69 00:04:41,716 --> 00:04:44,066 [cool music] 70 00:04:49,941 --> 00:04:51,856 I felt very comfortable around her. 71 00:04:51,987 --> 00:04:54,032 And I think that if she was available, 72 00:04:54,163 --> 00:04:55,686 I would most certainly ask her 73 00:04:55,773 --> 00:04:57,993 to watch my kids for a few hours and so forth. 74 00:04:58,123 --> 00:05:00,865 Just because I knew how gentle she was with her kids. 75 00:05:00,996 --> 00:05:03,128 [cool music] 76 00:05:07,263 --> 00:05:11,180 - There's times when my son would go out to her house, 77 00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:14,401 she would take them out to San Pedro to go see the boats. 78 00:05:14,531 --> 00:05:16,881 [cool music] 79 00:05:19,014 --> 00:05:22,322 She took my kids something that I've never even done 80 00:05:22,409 --> 00:05:25,063 till this day, she took them out to go see the stars. 81 00:05:25,194 --> 00:05:27,631 [cool music] 82 00:05:31,156 --> 00:05:34,595 - Carol's compassion for others 83 00:05:34,682 --> 00:05:37,685 is probably one of the biggest things about her. 84 00:05:37,815 --> 00:05:41,471 She loves people, she wants to help. 85 00:05:41,558 --> 00:05:45,214 She was in the CCCs, California Conservation Corps. 86 00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:47,956 She was in army briefly. 87 00:05:48,086 --> 00:05:52,830 She got honorably discharged for a problem with her hip. 88 00:05:52,961 --> 00:05:56,051 She then moved on to the Naval Reserve. 89 00:05:58,314 --> 00:06:01,839 - She was very ambitious, always trying to educate herself 90 00:06:01,970 --> 00:06:04,494 reading books, asking a lot of questions. 91 00:06:04,625 --> 00:06:07,236 She was very curious about the professional world. 92 00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:10,457 I know for sure that 93 00:06:10,544 --> 00:06:13,242 she did become a certified X-ray technician. 94 00:06:13,373 --> 00:06:14,765 And she was very proud of that. 95 00:06:16,332 --> 00:06:18,595 She had goals and ambitions. 96 00:06:18,682 --> 00:06:21,642 Eventually she wanted to run the radiology department. 97 00:06:22,773 --> 00:06:26,516 - She always got herself into something, school. 98 00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:28,997 She was taking online classes. 99 00:06:29,084 --> 00:06:31,869 So she was still going to the university while feeding 100 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,784 and breastfeeding and changing diapers 101 00:06:33,871 --> 00:06:35,482 and caring for them girls. 102 00:06:36,744 --> 00:06:40,138 - If she was ever feeling anything, any type of depression 103 00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:42,967 or she's feeling sad or even stressed out, 104 00:06:44,229 --> 00:06:45,535 I did not sense it, 105 00:06:45,666 --> 00:06:48,973 I did not see it, the only thing I saw in her was joy 106 00:06:49,104 --> 00:06:51,715 and pride, and just happy to be a mom 107 00:06:51,846 --> 00:06:54,326 and just happy to have her daughters. 108 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,508 - There is no more sacred relationship, 109 00:07:01,638 --> 00:07:03,423 in our sense of how the world should work 110 00:07:03,553 --> 00:07:05,555 than the relationship between a mom and her child. 111 00:07:07,383 --> 00:07:08,819 We rely on that relationship. 112 00:07:08,950 --> 00:07:10,778 It's what's kept the species going. 113 00:07:10,908 --> 00:07:13,302 [cool music] 114 00:07:17,393 --> 00:07:19,613 - When we hear that a mother has taken 115 00:07:19,743 --> 00:07:23,051 the life of her child, we're horrified. 116 00:07:23,181 --> 00:07:26,489 The public is horrified, they see her as the devil. 117 00:07:26,620 --> 00:07:27,969 They see her as evil. 118 00:07:30,841 --> 00:07:35,324 - The initial reaction is one of repulsion, one of anger. 119 00:07:37,065 --> 00:07:42,374 The actions so defy what we all hold, 120 00:07:43,506 --> 00:07:46,770 as being the pedicle love of a daughter and child. 121 00:07:46,901 --> 00:07:49,207 [cool music] 122 00:07:53,081 --> 00:07:55,649 - The idea that a mother who's supposed to love her child 123 00:07:55,736 --> 00:07:57,868 would kill that child, in any way harm 124 00:07:57,999 --> 00:08:02,569 and neglect that child is really difficult to grasp. 125 00:08:04,527 --> 00:08:06,311 Until you understand, what I've learned to understand 126 00:08:06,442 --> 00:08:08,313 is that it's absolutely not her fault. 127 00:08:08,444 --> 00:08:10,838 [cool music] 128 00:08:25,113 --> 00:08:29,334 - The numbers of women who suffer is shocking. 129 00:08:29,421 --> 00:08:30,553 It is horrifying. 130 00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:36,037 We now know that suicide is the leading cause 131 00:08:36,167 --> 00:08:38,735 of maternal death in the first year. 132 00:08:40,084 --> 00:08:44,262 Women are committing suicide and we're not still addressing 133 00:08:44,393 --> 00:08:46,264 this as a major public health issue. 134 00:08:46,395 --> 00:08:48,528 [cool music] 135 00:08:52,836 --> 00:08:55,665 - Motherhood is full of paradoxical feelings. 136 00:08:55,752 --> 00:08:59,147 I love this child, this child is you know, 137 00:08:59,277 --> 00:09:02,063 getting on my nerves, I love motherhood 138 00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:04,108 it's the hardest thing I've ever done. 139 00:09:04,239 --> 00:09:07,851 Every day is a series of paradoxes 140 00:09:07,982 --> 00:09:12,943 which can build up to create no-win situations. 141 00:09:14,031 --> 00:09:16,207 The more stress that a person has in their lives 142 00:09:16,338 --> 00:09:20,255 and having multiple children, having economic stress, 143 00:09:20,342 --> 00:09:23,258 having work stress, relationship stress, 144 00:09:23,388 --> 00:09:27,697 then our ability to manage and hold all of that 145 00:09:27,784 --> 00:09:29,960 is severely compromised 146 00:09:30,091 --> 00:09:34,661 and so it's actually not surprising that some women snap. 147 00:09:34,791 --> 00:09:37,141 [cool music] 148 00:09:38,621 --> 00:09:41,493 [birds chirping] 149 00:09:50,938 --> 00:09:53,549 [paper rattling] 150 00:09:57,553 --> 00:10:01,078 - I always kinda get the same kind of colors for them, 151 00:10:01,209 --> 00:10:02,819 We used to kinda have colors for them, 152 00:10:04,821 --> 00:10:06,431 Sophie's color was purple. 153 00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:10,174 [birds chirping] 154 00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:12,699 Yazzie's color was yellow. 155 00:10:12,829 --> 00:10:15,353 [birds chirping] 156 00:10:19,444 --> 00:10:20,794 Xenia's was white. 157 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:24,624 [bird chirping] 158 00:10:27,801 --> 00:10:31,369 They were what loved the most in my life. 159 00:10:35,460 --> 00:10:36,374 I miss them so much. 160 00:10:40,552 --> 00:10:43,991 They were bright, anywhere they showed up 161 00:10:44,121 --> 00:10:45,645 they illuminated the place. 162 00:10:55,611 --> 00:10:58,048 [Rudy crying] 163 00:11:10,234 --> 00:11:13,585 I can't see their beautiful faces anymore. 164 00:11:21,158 --> 00:11:21,855 Oh my God. 165 00:11:25,772 --> 00:11:28,383 [birds chirping] 166 00:11:35,564 --> 00:11:37,697 I'm so sorry I didn't help, I'm so sorry. 167 00:11:37,827 --> 00:11:40,177 [cool music] 168 00:11:54,583 --> 00:11:55,627 - This afternoon, in this driveway, 169 00:11:55,758 --> 00:11:57,499 is where sorrow still lingers. 170 00:11:57,586 --> 00:11:59,849 Over here you will find a growing memorial 171 00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:02,373 for three young girls who were found dead in a bed 172 00:12:02,504 --> 00:12:05,507 and now their mother is facing criminal charges 173 00:12:06,769 --> 00:12:08,771 - We know they're all in heaven. 174 00:12:08,902 --> 00:12:11,643 Pray for my babies, pray for Rudy 175 00:12:11,774 --> 00:12:12,949 and even pray for that woman, 176 00:12:14,342 --> 00:12:15,560 she had a demon inside her that day. 177 00:12:17,606 --> 00:12:21,523 - The suspect in this case is 30 year old Carol Coronado. 178 00:12:21,653 --> 00:12:24,656 Carol had called her mom saying she was going crazy. 179 00:12:24,787 --> 00:12:26,310 When the grandmother came to help, 180 00:12:26,397 --> 00:12:30,097 she found the bodies of her three grandchildren in one bed. 181 00:12:30,227 --> 00:12:32,708 Carol, the grandmother said had been stabbing herself. 182 00:12:32,795 --> 00:12:35,189 [cool music] 183 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,546 - We're going to the Twin Towers right now to see Carol. 184 00:12:44,676 --> 00:12:49,333 She's housed in the Medical Ward inside the jail 185 00:12:50,465 --> 00:12:52,684 we visit her about the upcoming trial we have. 186 00:12:54,121 --> 00:12:56,993 [rain drops pouring] 187 00:13:01,476 --> 00:13:05,915 I'm looking for the right result which I believe, 188 00:13:06,046 --> 00:13:08,570 and our experts believe is that she's not guilty 189 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:12,182 by reason of insanity, yes, the act was done. 190 00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:15,664 I don't think there's a real question as to who did the act. 191 00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:20,800 We're not really arguing that, the argument comes down to 192 00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:25,326 what was her state of mind at the time of this incident. 193 00:13:25,456 --> 00:13:26,762 You know, everyone agrees 194 00:13:26,893 --> 00:13:28,459 that there was something going on with Caroline, 195 00:13:28,590 --> 00:13:30,679 something that was going on at the time of this incident. 196 00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,115 You know, she wasn't herself. 197 00:13:32,246 --> 00:13:35,945 [rain drops pouring] 198 00:13:36,076 --> 00:13:39,906 The prosecutor Ms Spears and her team of police officers 199 00:13:40,036 --> 00:13:43,866 that are working on this case are very set 200 00:13:43,953 --> 00:13:46,826 on convicting her of first degree murder. 201 00:13:48,349 --> 00:13:51,831 But what keeps me going is knowing that 202 00:13:51,918 --> 00:13:53,833 Carol wouldn't have done this, you know, 203 00:13:53,963 --> 00:13:57,749 knowing her as a person and knowing more and more 204 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,622 about postpartum psychosis keeps me going, 205 00:14:00,752 --> 00:14:03,233 it keeps me doing everything I can 206 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,626 for the right result for her. 207 00:14:07,063 --> 00:14:09,370 [cool music] 208 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:30,173 - I met Carol Coronado upon her arrival 209 00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:33,089 at Twin Towers Correctional Facility, 210 00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:37,920 roughly maybe six days after her crime. 211 00:14:39,791 --> 00:14:43,273 When I met her she was similar to a catatonic patient. 212 00:14:45,058 --> 00:14:49,323 She appeared extremely depressed, she barely moved. 213 00:14:50,585 --> 00:14:54,763 We had placed her in a suicide gown, a Kevlar material. 214 00:14:56,504 --> 00:14:57,809 It's not comfortable. 215 00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:00,725 Most inmates ask right away, 216 00:15:00,856 --> 00:15:02,249 how long am I going to be in the gown, 217 00:15:02,379 --> 00:15:03,772 When do I get out of the gown? 218 00:15:05,034 --> 00:15:06,775 She didn't mention the gown, 219 00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:08,124 it's like it wasn't even there. 220 00:15:09,821 --> 00:15:11,911 She seemed very thin, 221 00:15:12,041 --> 00:15:14,000 she looked like she had not been eating. 222 00:15:15,958 --> 00:15:17,568 And even though she'd just had surgery 223 00:15:17,699 --> 00:15:22,182 and had given medications, you know, to help her sleep, 224 00:15:22,312 --> 00:15:24,662 it sounded like she hadn't slept in over a week. 225 00:15:24,793 --> 00:15:25,750 And she looked like it. 226 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:28,884 The diagnosis that I gave her 227 00:15:29,015 --> 00:15:32,583 in layman's term is postpartum psychosis. 228 00:15:36,457 --> 00:15:39,286 There were three psychiatrists who had seen her 229 00:15:39,416 --> 00:15:43,986 in those first five or six days, and the consensus was that, 230 00:15:44,073 --> 00:15:45,770 you know, this is a very sick patient. 231 00:15:48,730 --> 00:15:51,428 Also, I screened her for depression, 232 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,954 and it did appear that she had had depression 233 00:15:55,084 --> 00:15:58,653 after both of her pregnancies actually, and, you know, 234 00:15:58,783 --> 00:16:00,611 wasn't treated, so that actually 235 00:16:00,742 --> 00:16:04,354 elevates her risk significantly during a third pregnancy. 236 00:16:06,095 --> 00:16:10,056 So she had that risk factor, there. 237 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,320 [cool music] 238 00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:16,366 [car engines running] 239 00:16:28,248 --> 00:16:30,815 - We got this Alpine Village Swapmeet, 240 00:16:30,946 --> 00:16:32,861 I sell auto parts here. 241 00:16:32,992 --> 00:16:34,167 I've been here for seven years. 242 00:16:35,733 --> 00:16:39,389 [speaking in foreign language] 243 00:16:49,138 --> 00:16:52,141 A lot of people come through, a lot of people come through. 244 00:16:52,272 --> 00:16:55,101 For me this is the hardest part of the day is picking up, 245 00:16:55,971 --> 00:16:57,538 getting ready to leave to go home. 246 00:16:59,061 --> 00:17:00,106 I used to be in a rush to go home, 247 00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:02,064 I couldn't wait to get home to my girls. 248 00:17:03,979 --> 00:17:08,244 And now it's just like the part that I miss the most is 249 00:17:10,768 --> 00:17:14,207 my hi daddy's, my smiles they used to run to me 250 00:17:14,337 --> 00:17:18,254 when I got home, and I don't get none of that no more. 251 00:17:23,999 --> 00:17:27,046 As a father I was kind of raised to work, you know, 252 00:17:27,176 --> 00:17:28,351 provide for your family. 253 00:17:29,918 --> 00:17:32,138 We didn't really have no luxuries. 254 00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:34,444 Like we didn't have a lot of extras 255 00:17:34,531 --> 00:17:38,318 but we weren't like struggling we were okay. 256 00:17:39,449 --> 00:17:42,452 I loved the fact of having to provide for my family 257 00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:45,760 'cause that made me, I loved the fact that waking up 258 00:17:45,847 --> 00:17:50,286 in the morning coming to work before I left to work, 259 00:17:50,417 --> 00:17:53,072 I would look around and I'd see my little girls 260 00:17:53,159 --> 00:17:56,988 and that was my energy, that was my power to push 261 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:58,947 and I pushed for them, I pushed. 262 00:18:03,038 --> 00:18:05,954 [door hinges screeching] 263 00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:08,783 It's hard for parents with one child you know, 264 00:18:08,913 --> 00:18:13,135 let alone two and then three and then back to back, 265 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,050 it's very hard. 266 00:18:16,312 --> 00:18:20,142 Carol did most of the duties when it came to my daughters, 267 00:18:20,273 --> 00:18:24,581 I would help her but she did mainly 95% of it. 268 00:18:26,192 --> 00:18:30,587 Now I did like going to work and you know, 269 00:18:30,718 --> 00:18:34,330 providing but she did most of the maintaining, you know, 270 00:18:34,461 --> 00:18:37,203 so it was very difficult for Carol as well for, 271 00:18:41,555 --> 00:18:42,860 it was very difficult. 272 00:18:44,514 --> 00:18:47,256 [cool music] 273 00:18:48,257 --> 00:18:49,867 Carol's babies were very close together, 274 00:18:51,347 --> 00:18:53,697 Sophia and Yazzie were 14 months apart 275 00:18:53,784 --> 00:18:58,006 and Yazzie and Xenia were only 13 months apart. 276 00:18:59,964 --> 00:19:03,011 Shortly after they got engaged, 277 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:04,926 she found out she was pregnant 278 00:19:05,056 --> 00:19:08,886 and she was so excited about it. 279 00:19:08,973 --> 00:19:10,758 She'd send pictures 280 00:19:10,888 --> 00:19:13,500 and tell me when her doctor's appointments were 281 00:19:13,630 --> 00:19:16,155 and oh, we're gonna go see the baby today. 282 00:19:16,285 --> 00:19:18,157 She was always super excited about it. 283 00:19:18,287 --> 00:19:20,681 [cool music] 284 00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:32,736 When Sophia came, it was probably the happiest day. 285 00:19:32,823 --> 00:19:35,174 I don't know that I've ever seen her happier. 286 00:19:35,304 --> 00:19:36,610 She was full of joy. 287 00:19:39,308 --> 00:19:41,528 She was definitely very excited 288 00:19:41,658 --> 00:19:44,052 about meeting her, holding her, 289 00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:46,359 she didn't wanna let go of her baby, it was her baby. 290 00:19:48,187 --> 00:19:49,884 I don't think she had any difficulties with it. 291 00:19:50,014 --> 00:19:52,713 She didn't complain about being overly uncomfortable. 292 00:19:55,629 --> 00:19:57,544 - Blow it, yeey. 293 00:19:57,674 --> 00:19:59,850 [cheering] 294 00:20:09,991 --> 00:20:12,036 I don't know that she was necessarily ready 295 00:20:12,167 --> 00:20:14,256 to have more babies, 296 00:20:16,302 --> 00:20:19,000 I don't necessarily think any of them were planned. 297 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:23,178 I think they were kind of more surprises, welcome surprises. 298 00:20:23,265 --> 00:20:25,398 [cool music] 299 00:20:32,231 --> 00:20:36,017 - [Carol] Yazmine what you doing, lemme see that. 300 00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:43,894 - When Carol became pregnant with Yazmine, 301 00:20:43,981 --> 00:20:47,202 she was having problems maybe because 302 00:20:47,289 --> 00:20:49,160 they were too close together, I don't know. 303 00:20:50,684 --> 00:20:53,077 There's points when she was bent over 304 00:20:53,208 --> 00:20:54,470 and she couldn't get up 305 00:20:54,601 --> 00:20:57,560 in the kitchen, I had to help her up, put her in bed. 306 00:21:01,347 --> 00:21:05,046 - I didn't notice any changes in Carol after Yazzie, 307 00:21:05,176 --> 00:21:08,179 other than the fact that she was tired but, you know, 308 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,226 I'm a mom too, I'm tired all the time. 309 00:21:11,357 --> 00:21:12,314 She didn't seemed sad. 310 00:21:14,664 --> 00:21:16,405 - I know that she was very, very stressed 311 00:21:16,536 --> 00:21:18,233 because the kids were so close in age. 312 00:21:18,364 --> 00:21:21,192 My kids are two years apart, so I understood 313 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,456 what she was going through when you have little kids. 314 00:21:23,586 --> 00:21:25,240 But she was always very patient, 315 00:21:25,371 --> 00:21:27,198 she would never yell at the girls. 316 00:21:27,329 --> 00:21:29,200 [cool music] 317 00:21:29,331 --> 00:21:32,639 - [Carol] Good job Sophia, high-five. 318 00:21:32,726 --> 00:21:35,511 - Carol did confide in me that it was very difficult for her 319 00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:37,426 because she was trying to better herself. 320 00:21:37,557 --> 00:21:39,863 She was trying to finish her bachelor's degree. 321 00:21:39,994 --> 00:21:41,778 She was trying to do a lot of things 322 00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:44,955 that were already difficult as it was 323 00:21:45,042 --> 00:21:48,872 and still trying to be a mother and a wife. 324 00:21:48,959 --> 00:21:51,745 When you know she was with the children all day, 325 00:21:51,875 --> 00:21:53,703 Rudy was working and when he would come home, 326 00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:55,792 she would expect him to take over 327 00:21:55,879 --> 00:21:59,230 so she could try to do things, make dinner or study 328 00:21:59,361 --> 00:22:01,058 or do whatever she needed to do, 329 00:22:01,189 --> 00:22:03,234 but Rudy expected certain things. 330 00:22:03,365 --> 00:22:04,584 His mother was a stay at home mom, 331 00:22:04,714 --> 00:22:07,717 and so he expected dinner to be set 332 00:22:07,804 --> 00:22:09,676 and to take care of the kids and he would go to work 333 00:22:09,806 --> 00:22:11,895 and come home and things should be done. 334 00:22:13,201 --> 00:22:15,334 [cool music] 335 00:22:21,949 --> 00:22:25,300 - When Carol was pregnant with Xenia, 336 00:22:25,431 --> 00:22:29,478 we went to a baby shower and she was already, 337 00:22:29,609 --> 00:22:31,915 she was probably like, seven months or so, 338 00:22:32,046 --> 00:22:33,961 and she couldn't walk. 339 00:22:34,091 --> 00:22:37,486 And so then I looked at her and then I said, are you okay? 340 00:22:37,617 --> 00:22:39,140 And and then she says, yeah, she's like, 341 00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:42,012 I get a lot of pain and she's like, 342 00:22:42,143 --> 00:22:43,927 it happened with my second pregnancy 343 00:22:44,058 --> 00:22:45,886 and I don't know what it is, 344 00:22:46,016 --> 00:22:48,715 but it's like I can, like almost like she was crippled 345 00:22:48,845 --> 00:22:51,370 'cause she was limping and she couldn't walk straight. 346 00:22:53,415 --> 00:22:56,462 - Carol was in a lot of pressures after the third baby. 347 00:22:58,115 --> 00:22:59,682 When Xenia came into the picture, 348 00:22:59,813 --> 00:23:02,206 she just was tired, more tired and hungry. 349 00:23:02,337 --> 00:23:05,732 She would say all the time, mom, I'm tired, I'm hungry. 350 00:23:05,862 --> 00:23:08,256 Xenia was real hard on her. 351 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:11,651 And then she fell into like a depression. 352 00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:19,485 - When we had Xenia we argued a little more than usual, 353 00:23:20,486 --> 00:23:22,488 taking care of a newborn child and you know, 354 00:23:22,618 --> 00:23:24,403 the lack of sleep, the lack of rest, 355 00:23:25,621 --> 00:23:27,101 and plus its the third child 356 00:23:27,188 --> 00:23:29,103 it's not the first and the second, 357 00:23:29,233 --> 00:23:33,542 so it's a lot more intense. 358 00:23:35,283 --> 00:23:37,590 - I was I nervous for her, 359 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,420 I was nervous about Xenia coming so quickly after Yazzie. 360 00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:45,249 I mean, that's stressful on anybody. 361 00:23:47,121 --> 00:23:49,645 Rudy didn't help too much so, I was really hoping 362 00:23:49,776 --> 00:23:52,953 that would change after Xenia any so she could at least 363 00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:55,521 get a little bit more sleep than she was getting. 364 00:23:56,652 --> 00:23:58,175 - Sometimes I would go there and help them out 365 00:23:58,306 --> 00:23:59,699 and talk to him and tell him, hey, 366 00:23:59,786 --> 00:24:02,484 you have to help your wife, you have to be a team player. 367 00:24:02,615 --> 00:24:04,443 It's okay for a man to wash a dish. 368 00:24:04,573 --> 00:24:06,270 It's okay for man to change a diaper. 369 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,233 - She seemed to get more angry maybe towards Rudy, 370 00:24:12,363 --> 00:24:14,888 like she would describe he would get upset with her 371 00:24:15,018 --> 00:24:17,760 when the babies woke him up in the middle of the night, 372 00:24:17,891 --> 00:24:20,241 so she had to be on constant baby duty 373 00:24:20,328 --> 00:24:21,547 which made her more tired. 374 00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:29,337 - As I look back, I do look back at the whole situation, 375 00:24:29,468 --> 00:24:30,773 I wish I would have done more, 376 00:24:33,863 --> 00:24:37,780 to help her, to relieve of her duties. 377 00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:46,397 - Where's daddy? Where's daddy? 378 00:24:47,529 --> 00:24:52,186 - Yeah she was a good wife, she was a good woman. 379 00:24:53,187 --> 00:24:54,318 She was a good woman, 380 00:24:54,449 --> 00:24:57,147 she was always attentive of everything. 381 00:24:57,278 --> 00:25:01,500 She was always there, she helped out a lot. 382 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,329 She was a better wife than I was a husband. 383 00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:10,552 She was a better wife than I was a husband. 384 00:25:10,639 --> 00:25:11,901 She was a better person than me. 385 00:25:14,556 --> 00:25:15,905 She's a way better person than me. 386 00:25:19,343 --> 00:25:20,301 She just went through this, 387 00:25:22,564 --> 00:25:24,435 she went through this psychotic disease 388 00:25:24,566 --> 00:25:28,701 and it ruined both of our lives. 389 00:25:34,663 --> 00:25:36,796 - Perinatal illness knows no boundaries. 390 00:25:36,926 --> 00:25:42,236 It can strike anyone rich, poor, male, female, 391 00:25:43,585 --> 00:25:45,544 it doesn't matter what culture you're from, what ethnicity, 392 00:25:45,631 --> 00:25:49,460 how old you are, no one is immune. 393 00:25:49,591 --> 00:25:51,767 [baby crying] 394 00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:59,340 - There is a full spectrum of mental illnesses 395 00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:01,255 or mental health struggles that arise 396 00:26:01,385 --> 00:26:04,475 in the aftermath of childbirth. 397 00:26:06,434 --> 00:26:08,131 There's the baby blues that happen 398 00:26:08,218 --> 00:26:10,786 when the hormones are just crashing and burning 399 00:26:10,917 --> 00:26:14,181 after you have a baby, you'll go from a real high 400 00:26:14,311 --> 00:26:16,444 to a real low where you're suddenly weepy 401 00:26:16,531 --> 00:26:18,359 and just uncontrollably sad. 402 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,625 - The baby blues is very common among women, 403 00:26:23,712 --> 00:26:26,106 about three out of four women who give birth, 404 00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:28,543 are gonna experience this. 405 00:26:28,674 --> 00:26:31,720 Symptoms usually go away in two to three weeks. 406 00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,638 - Aside from that, there's the more serious 407 00:26:36,769 --> 00:26:39,336 postpartum depression that sets in 408 00:26:39,467 --> 00:26:42,818 for a percentage of the population. 409 00:26:42,949 --> 00:26:46,169 And it's generally within the first six weeks. 410 00:26:48,041 --> 00:26:49,651 - One of the Hallmark characteristics 411 00:26:49,782 --> 00:26:54,613 of postpartum depression is the inability to sleep. 412 00:26:54,743 --> 00:26:56,571 - Sleep deprivation is absolutely key. 413 00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:59,313 Sleep deprivation is used as a torture technique. 414 00:27:01,271 --> 00:27:04,187 And so sleep deprivation is one of the key risk factors. 415 00:27:06,494 --> 00:27:07,974 - Then one of the other ways in which we see 416 00:27:08,104 --> 00:27:11,717 postpartum depression present is with panic attacks. 417 00:27:11,804 --> 00:27:14,023 Women feel as though they can't cope, 418 00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:16,199 they feel totally overwhelmed, 419 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:19,028 in some severe cases, women feel suicidal 420 00:27:19,115 --> 00:27:21,640 and they're not able to take care of their baby. 421 00:27:24,294 --> 00:27:27,123 - Postpartum psychosis is at the far end 422 00:27:27,254 --> 00:27:29,343 of that spectrum of mental illnesses 423 00:27:29,473 --> 00:27:31,737 that happens in one or two women 424 00:27:31,824 --> 00:27:34,740 out of every thousand babies that are born. 425 00:27:36,002 --> 00:27:38,657 - It's a common misconception that postpartum psychosis 426 00:27:38,787 --> 00:27:40,702 is just really bad depression. 427 00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:43,096 But baby blues doesn't get worse 428 00:27:43,226 --> 00:27:44,750 and then it's depression and then it gets worse 429 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,187 and then it's psychosis, they're different. 430 00:27:50,146 --> 00:27:53,410 - Mental illness is a beast, 431 00:27:53,541 --> 00:27:56,892 and postpartum is a nasty bitch. 432 00:27:57,023 --> 00:28:01,549 - The words postpartum depression to me mean living hell. 433 00:28:03,464 --> 00:28:07,990 - I had never heard of the term postpartum depression, 434 00:28:08,121 --> 00:28:13,082 and when this baby came around I was hit by a bus. 435 00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:15,694 - It hit me like a ton of bricks. 436 00:28:15,824 --> 00:28:19,436 I went in working 80 hours doing well, 437 00:28:19,567 --> 00:28:21,438 I came out wanting to kill myself. 438 00:28:21,569 --> 00:28:24,006 [cool music] 439 00:28:26,966 --> 00:28:30,796 - I noticed I was really irritable. 440 00:28:30,926 --> 00:28:35,757 I felt down, I was angry, I would lash out. 441 00:28:35,888 --> 00:28:38,542 - I'm experiencing daily anxiety attacks, 442 00:28:38,673 --> 00:28:41,632 something I'd never experienced in all of my 40 years. 443 00:28:43,896 --> 00:28:45,680 - The anxiety just kept getting worse and worse 444 00:28:45,811 --> 00:28:47,769 then it was just these constant thoughts 445 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:49,728 that you just could not shut up in your own mind 446 00:28:49,858 --> 00:28:51,468 that was part of the living hell. 447 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,514 And it would be anything from like I said, 448 00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:55,864 the baby wipe to not wanting the kid, 449 00:28:55,995 --> 00:28:57,997 to having to make dinner, to do the laundry, 450 00:28:58,127 --> 00:28:59,825 to she's crying again, to I gotta feed her, 451 00:28:59,955 --> 00:29:01,652 to I gotta get up, my husband's coming home, 452 00:29:01,783 --> 00:29:03,350 people are visiting, I'm exhausted. 453 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,746 - He would cry, I would cry. 454 00:29:07,876 --> 00:29:10,052 And we would just cry together. 455 00:29:13,795 --> 00:29:17,799 - I fell 5 million feet down. 456 00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:20,846 I wanted to be the mother that I had always dreamed of being 457 00:29:20,976 --> 00:29:24,414 and instead of being able to be that mother, 458 00:29:24,545 --> 00:29:27,243 I was on my knees and I could hardly function. 459 00:29:28,854 --> 00:29:30,377 - My wife was getting to a depressed stage 460 00:29:30,464 --> 00:29:33,336 so she would basically just not take care of herself, 461 00:29:33,467 --> 00:29:37,471 my daughter, even the animals in the house 462 00:29:37,601 --> 00:29:39,778 like the dogs and cats wouldn't get fed, 463 00:29:39,908 --> 00:29:42,519 like my daughter would be still in the same diaper 464 00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:44,217 since I left for work in the morning. 465 00:29:46,262 --> 00:29:50,745 - [Susie] I stopped eating, I lost 55 pounds in two months. 466 00:29:52,007 --> 00:29:56,533 But I also was really struggling with intrusive thoughts 467 00:29:57,621 --> 00:29:59,014 about harming my baby. 468 00:30:01,843 --> 00:30:05,238 - I would be holding her and I would think, 469 00:30:05,368 --> 00:30:08,632 I wonder if I just thought banged her head into the counter. 470 00:30:08,763 --> 00:30:10,069 And then I'd be like, what, what do you mean? 471 00:30:10,156 --> 00:30:11,853 Like I don't wanna bang her head into the counter. 472 00:30:11,984 --> 00:30:15,030 - I would pass an electrical cord 473 00:30:15,117 --> 00:30:18,599 and I would suddenly imagine it around my baby's neck. 474 00:30:18,729 --> 00:30:21,297 I would pass a microwave, 475 00:30:21,428 --> 00:30:23,299 I would imagine putting the baby in the microwave 476 00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:24,692 any possible harm. 477 00:30:27,869 --> 00:30:30,916 - These thoughts are alien to these women. 478 00:30:31,046 --> 00:30:33,396 It's not that they really want to do it. 479 00:30:33,483 --> 00:30:38,227 And in fact, they feel terrible. 480 00:30:38,358 --> 00:30:39,576 They are just tortured. 481 00:30:41,709 --> 00:30:43,406 - I was horribly ashamed 482 00:30:43,537 --> 00:30:47,976 and really quite afraid of telling anyone. 483 00:30:48,107 --> 00:30:52,633 I kept the scariest of the images and thoughts to myself. 484 00:30:54,026 --> 00:30:57,072 And it was a horrible, deep secret. 485 00:31:00,293 --> 00:31:01,772 - And all I could think of was, 486 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:05,907 if I just close my eyes and go to sleep, she'll be fine. 487 00:31:05,994 --> 00:31:07,822 My husband and my mother are here to take care of her, 488 00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:10,694 I did my job, I brought her into this world. 489 00:31:10,825 --> 00:31:13,480 I am not equipped to take care of her. 490 00:31:13,610 --> 00:31:15,917 My job was just to be a vessel and bring her here. 491 00:31:16,004 --> 00:31:18,615 There's no way I can even try 492 00:31:18,746 --> 00:31:20,574 to take care of this young baby. 493 00:31:23,011 --> 00:31:25,884 - Most women feel like they're going off the deep end, 494 00:31:26,014 --> 00:31:29,844 they have absolutely no idea what's happening to them. 495 00:31:30,932 --> 00:31:33,239 - And again, the shame of feeling depressed 496 00:31:33,369 --> 00:31:36,982 at a time when you're expected to feel really happy, 497 00:31:37,112 --> 00:31:40,072 tends to exacerbate the problem of postpartum depression. 498 00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:41,725 Women tend not to name it, 499 00:31:41,856 --> 00:31:43,075 they tend not to talk to their doctors 500 00:31:43,205 --> 00:31:45,077 or even their spouses about it. 501 00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:50,517 - And we blame ourselves, 502 00:31:50,647 --> 00:31:52,693 and we think there's something wrong with us. 503 00:31:52,823 --> 00:31:56,131 And we silence ourselves and the stigma piles on 504 00:31:56,262 --> 00:31:57,785 and it piles on and it piles on. 505 00:31:57,916 --> 00:31:59,874 And I'm not gonna say out loud 506 00:32:00,005 --> 00:32:01,571 that I don't feel connected to my child. 507 00:32:01,702 --> 00:32:04,096 I'm not gonna say out loud that I don't feel attached. 508 00:32:04,226 --> 00:32:06,750 I'm not gonna tell you that I'm terrified to be a mother, 509 00:32:06,881 --> 00:32:09,144 that I'm afraid that I made the worst decision, 510 00:32:09,275 --> 00:32:11,320 that my child would be better off without me. 511 00:32:11,451 --> 00:32:13,061 I'm not gonna say any of those things. 512 00:32:13,192 --> 00:32:15,585 [cool music] 513 00:32:30,992 --> 00:32:32,602 - The father of those three young girls 514 00:32:32,733 --> 00:32:34,953 allegedly murdered by their mother in Torrance, 515 00:32:35,083 --> 00:32:37,390 came face to face with his wife in court today 516 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,958 for the first time since that family tragedy. 517 00:32:42,090 --> 00:32:44,919 No cameras were allowed in court but reporters were. 518 00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:47,748 Carol Coronado was brought out in a wheelchair. 519 00:32:47,878 --> 00:32:50,969 We watched as Rudy Coronado shook uncontrollably 520 00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:53,972 and wiped away tears every time her name was mentioned. 521 00:32:57,236 --> 00:33:00,500 - This obviously was a big story. 522 00:33:00,630 --> 00:33:03,111 The public was very interested. 523 00:33:03,198 --> 00:33:06,636 There are hardly ever stories like this, 524 00:33:06,767 --> 00:33:11,250 where a mother is accused of killing her own children. 525 00:33:13,339 --> 00:33:18,039 - I just wanna thank everybody for their support, everybody. 526 00:33:18,866 --> 00:33:20,172 - I first found out about the case 527 00:33:20,259 --> 00:33:22,478 when my boss called me in the evening, 528 00:33:22,609 --> 00:33:25,307 and she told me that to turn on the news, 529 00:33:25,438 --> 00:33:27,135 and I turned on the news 530 00:33:27,266 --> 00:33:29,355 and started watching some of the facts of the case. 531 00:33:29,485 --> 00:33:31,922 Cases aren't typically assigned personally 532 00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:33,315 like this particular case was, 533 00:33:33,446 --> 00:33:34,882 usually they just arrive on my desk 534 00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:37,145 and I prosecute them from that. 535 00:33:37,232 --> 00:33:38,842 But given the media attention to the case, 536 00:33:38,973 --> 00:33:40,235 and given the other difficulties 537 00:33:40,366 --> 00:33:41,976 of prosecuting this particular case, 538 00:33:42,107 --> 00:33:44,413 she offered me the option of prosecuting it. 539 00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:46,241 And I did wanna take it I mean, 540 00:33:46,372 --> 00:33:49,027 those little girls deserved my efforts to get them justice. 541 00:33:50,854 --> 00:33:51,986 - [Male reporter] Coronado has pleaded not guilty 542 00:33:52,073 --> 00:33:54,336 by reason of insanity, but the prosecutor, 543 00:33:54,467 --> 00:33:56,817 she's accusing Coronado of planning the murders, 544 00:33:56,947 --> 00:33:58,166 even though her family insists, 545 00:33:58,297 --> 00:34:01,039 that she was a good and loving mother. 546 00:34:01,169 --> 00:34:03,693 - I know Carolyn, she would never ever in a million years 547 00:34:03,824 --> 00:34:06,783 do anything like that to no one I'm not, 548 00:34:06,914 --> 00:34:09,047 again I don't have a lip of hate I love her. 549 00:34:09,177 --> 00:34:10,613 That's the mother of my children 550 00:34:10,744 --> 00:34:13,225 and she doesn't know what she did. 551 00:34:13,312 --> 00:34:15,966 That's why I'm gonna stand behind her 1,000% 552 00:34:16,097 --> 00:34:18,012 because I know she didn't do, 553 00:34:18,143 --> 00:34:21,363 it is a disease out there that destroys families. 554 00:34:22,625 --> 00:34:26,368 - Can you tell me whether she depicted any sort of signs. 555 00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:28,936 - There was a lot of signs that I didn't know how to read. 556 00:34:29,067 --> 00:34:30,938 Here's the reason why we need to bring awareness to it 557 00:34:31,069 --> 00:34:33,071 because I was never educated on nothing like this 558 00:34:33,201 --> 00:34:34,898 and didn't have a clue. 559 00:34:35,029 --> 00:34:37,162 And we need to bring awareness to this disease 560 00:34:37,292 --> 00:34:40,426 because there is a disease out there that needs to be known 561 00:34:40,556 --> 00:34:42,428 for everybody to save more lives, 562 00:34:42,558 --> 00:34:46,388 save more babies, save more families, thank you. 563 00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:49,739 - Thank you guys for being here today, thank you. 564 00:34:51,219 --> 00:34:53,830 - Rudy was the victim. 565 00:34:53,961 --> 00:34:58,618 He was the family member of the children who were killed, 566 00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:04,798 and yet he wasn't calling her evil or anything 567 00:35:04,928 --> 00:35:08,323 and distancing himself from her and showing anger 568 00:35:08,454 --> 00:35:10,717 or anything, he was standing by her. 569 00:35:10,804 --> 00:35:15,069 I was surprised I'd really never seen a case like that. 570 00:35:19,508 --> 00:35:22,032 - People affected by the postpartum psychosis, 571 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,818 they're not themselves anymore. 572 00:35:24,948 --> 00:35:27,168 They don't know what's real, they don't know what's fake. 573 00:35:31,738 --> 00:35:34,088 There's no way Carol could have hurt her babies 574 00:35:34,219 --> 00:35:38,788 knowing that they were her babies, not a chance. 575 00:35:42,227 --> 00:35:45,317 - Carol, I went to visit her at the Twin Towers, 576 00:35:45,447 --> 00:35:48,189 and trying to find out what actually happened. 577 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,323 You can't talk because of things being tape recorded. 578 00:35:51,453 --> 00:35:56,328 She goes, mama her voices, I went like what voices Carol? 579 00:35:57,285 --> 00:35:59,983 'cause I'm interested now, what voices? 580 00:36:00,070 --> 00:36:03,378 She just shook her head and mumbled, I can tell you mum. 581 00:36:03,465 --> 00:36:05,119 Someone was telling her to kill the children. 582 00:36:07,252 --> 00:36:08,949 So of course that's lingering in my head 583 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:11,125 like that happened to me. 584 00:36:11,256 --> 00:36:14,215 But when I heard that, telling me to kill my child 585 00:36:14,346 --> 00:36:17,044 when I was breastfeeding them, well, I didn't take action. 586 00:36:17,131 --> 00:36:20,178 So I like said I don't understand, 587 00:36:20,308 --> 00:36:24,094 if it's hereditary, yeah, I had the symptoms of that. 588 00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:28,316 [cool music] 589 00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:35,497 - Postpartum psychosis is an awful illness to have. 590 00:36:35,628 --> 00:36:38,283 [cool music] 591 00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:41,111 Often, it will occur very abruptly. 592 00:36:41,242 --> 00:36:43,766 [cool music] 593 00:36:43,853 --> 00:36:47,553 The symptoms include confusion. 594 00:36:47,683 --> 00:36:51,034 They may not know where they are or what day it is. 595 00:36:54,124 --> 00:36:58,564 - These are women who have a complete break with reality 596 00:36:58,694 --> 00:37:01,044 in that they are hearing voices 597 00:37:01,175 --> 00:37:05,310 or even seeing delusions, seeing things that aren't there. 598 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,138 They lose the ability to distinguish between what's reality 599 00:37:08,269 --> 00:37:10,097 and what's just a hallucination. 600 00:37:12,012 --> 00:37:16,146 - There are delusions associated with postpartum psychosis. 601 00:37:16,277 --> 00:37:19,802 Sometimes it's about the baby being evil. 602 00:37:19,889 --> 00:37:23,632 Sometimes mother is feeling terribly inadequate. 603 00:37:25,808 --> 00:37:29,464 - Postpartum psychosis is a psychiatric emergency 604 00:37:29,595 --> 00:37:33,425 and these women must be separated from their babies 605 00:37:33,555 --> 00:37:38,212 because we don't really know what's going on in their minds. 606 00:37:41,607 --> 00:37:45,567 - The statistics are that about 4% of these women, 607 00:37:45,698 --> 00:37:47,613 will commit infanticide, 608 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,877 and about 5% of these women, will commit suicide. 609 00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:56,143 [baby crying] 610 00:37:57,579 --> 00:38:00,190 - I've never heard about postpartum psychosis, 611 00:38:00,321 --> 00:38:03,759 nor were we ever spoken to about that, after Shane was born. 612 00:38:05,631 --> 00:38:08,286 - Postpartum psychosis, I had never heard of that. 613 00:38:10,418 --> 00:38:13,639 In fact, until I don't even know, 614 00:38:13,769 --> 00:38:16,990 four or five, six months ago when I started looking into 615 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,255 postpartum depression after my wife was dead. 616 00:38:21,386 --> 00:38:23,431 - I suffered postpartum psychosis. 617 00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:29,916 I had it with my first child in 1980. 618 00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:34,703 During my first prenatal visit, 619 00:38:34,834 --> 00:38:37,793 when I saw my midwife, I told her, 620 00:38:37,924 --> 00:38:41,144 I had done some pretty crazy things after Alison was born, 621 00:38:41,275 --> 00:38:44,017 and I was hospitalized in the psychiatric unit. 622 00:38:44,147 --> 00:38:45,975 And her advice at the time was, 623 00:38:46,106 --> 00:38:48,195 you don't have to worry about that happening again. 624 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:53,156 - I had a daughter named Melanie, 625 00:38:54,636 --> 00:38:57,509 who wanted a baby more than life itself. 626 00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:01,600 And when Melanie delivered her baby, 627 00:39:01,687 --> 00:39:04,254 she went into postpartum psychosis immediately. 628 00:39:06,474 --> 00:39:09,216 I had no idea how deadly it was. 629 00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:13,089 I had no idea how many mothers had killed their children 630 00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:16,441 under the influence of postpartum psychosis. 631 00:39:16,571 --> 00:39:18,878 I had no idea that I wasn't gonna be able 632 00:39:19,008 --> 00:39:20,183 to save my daughter. 633 00:39:24,536 --> 00:39:27,060 - Everything really was picture perfect. 634 00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:32,065 Until I stopped nursing Michael at nine months, 635 00:39:32,674 --> 00:39:34,023 little did I know that, 636 00:39:34,154 --> 00:39:37,070 that was going to drive me completely insane. 637 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,114 And that's what happened. 638 00:39:43,424 --> 00:39:45,426 - I really only noticed anything 639 00:39:47,254 --> 00:39:51,301 a little less than two weeks prior to their deaths. 640 00:39:53,129 --> 00:39:54,435 It happened so quickly. 641 00:39:54,522 --> 00:39:58,178 It really started after she took a birth control pill. 642 00:39:58,308 --> 00:40:01,311 And she was never the same person from then on, 643 00:40:03,139 --> 00:40:05,794 extreme paranoia, abnormal anxiety, 644 00:40:05,925 --> 00:40:07,405 that I've never witnessed in my wife. 645 00:40:11,409 --> 00:40:15,978 - I started to think that Michael was the devil 646 00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:18,807 and that it was really my calling 647 00:40:18,938 --> 00:40:20,940 that I need to drown him. 648 00:40:24,596 --> 00:40:28,251 I remember kneeling, begging God to tell me what to do. 649 00:40:29,557 --> 00:40:33,561 And I took him and filled up the bathtub with lukewarm water 650 00:40:39,437 --> 00:40:44,180 and I just placed him down until he died. 651 00:40:50,448 --> 00:40:52,885 - It seemed like Melanie was determined to die. 652 00:40:54,974 --> 00:40:58,151 She said, Oh, Mommy, I'm such a bad mother, 653 00:40:58,281 --> 00:41:02,329 the baby doesn't deserve to have a mother as bad as I am. 654 00:41:02,416 --> 00:41:04,462 And I shouldn't live. 655 00:41:07,726 --> 00:41:10,511 She checked in a hotel, and she went up 656 00:41:10,598 --> 00:41:13,558 to the 12th or 13th floor I don't really wanna know, 657 00:41:14,776 --> 00:41:16,561 and she jumped out of a window. 658 00:41:16,691 --> 00:41:18,998 [cool music] 659 00:41:21,217 --> 00:41:25,918 - My wife, Charlene I believe she did in the end, 660 00:41:27,789 --> 00:41:29,878 take her life and Shane's life, 661 00:41:32,794 --> 00:41:35,275 because she was suffering from postpartum psychosis. 662 00:41:38,931 --> 00:41:41,455 Just the fact that there was not enough information 663 00:41:41,586 --> 00:41:43,631 that could have prepared us for what's going on, 664 00:41:43,762 --> 00:41:46,329 there's a failure, you know, with our system. 665 00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:50,420 - My wife is dead, my kids have no mom. 666 00:41:53,336 --> 00:41:57,253 - What I wanna tell guys out there or husbands, 667 00:41:57,384 --> 00:42:00,213 if you know or you feel something's off, 668 00:42:00,343 --> 00:42:03,477 you need to go talk to somebody you need to go get help 669 00:42:03,564 --> 00:42:08,700 and I would go even so far as to say, 670 00:42:09,439 --> 00:42:10,005 you need to get her in the car 671 00:42:13,095 --> 00:42:16,708 like right fucking then and go somewhere like a hospital. 672 00:42:17,752 --> 00:42:20,059 [cool music] 673 00:42:24,716 --> 00:42:25,630 - You wanna go by Carol's house 674 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,066 where she kinda grew up? - Sure. 675 00:42:36,075 --> 00:42:37,772 - Right now we're in Compton, 676 00:42:37,903 --> 00:42:41,254 Compton is still Compton, still not a safe place. 677 00:42:43,256 --> 00:42:44,953 Carol grew up around the corner. 678 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,346 They were like the little white, 679 00:42:46,476 --> 00:42:48,435 the white kids in the neighborhood. 680 00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,524 She was in the Carson area. 681 00:42:50,655 --> 00:42:53,005 [cool music] 682 00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:56,356 - I've known Carol for 20 years. 683 00:42:58,097 --> 00:42:59,533 She was a sweet, quiet little girl. 684 00:43:01,230 --> 00:43:03,102 She would sit to herself, play by herself. 685 00:43:04,756 --> 00:43:07,846 - She's very passive like her mother, 686 00:43:07,976 --> 00:43:12,024 very sweet thing, she was very obedient. 687 00:43:13,503 --> 00:43:16,202 [car engine running] 688 00:43:16,332 --> 00:43:18,421 This is Carol's old house where she grew up. 689 00:43:21,424 --> 00:43:22,425 They used to live this way. 690 00:43:24,776 --> 00:43:26,473 That was all beat up like this. 691 00:43:27,692 --> 00:43:30,608 And then here's this house over here, 692 00:43:30,695 --> 00:43:33,915 every time we'd come by here, she would either start crying, 693 00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,964 or she'd kinda go like this, this house right here. 694 00:43:40,139 --> 00:43:43,316 She said she got molested in this house right here. 695 00:43:43,403 --> 00:43:44,970 She said she was like five years old. 696 00:43:47,102 --> 00:43:50,889 So yeah we'd come by the street right here 697 00:43:50,976 --> 00:43:53,587 and she'd either shrivel up or if we came walking, 698 00:43:53,718 --> 00:43:56,808 she would run past this fast like a little girl, 699 00:43:56,938 --> 00:43:59,071 like she would have flashbacks of when she was young. 700 00:44:02,770 --> 00:44:06,121 - Carol did have some traumatic events in her life. 701 00:44:07,209 --> 00:44:08,950 She was molested a couple different times. 702 00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:13,389 Once by a family member. 703 00:44:16,001 --> 00:44:20,745 She had a gang rape scenario in the, 704 00:44:22,181 --> 00:44:24,009 when she was in the army briefly. 705 00:44:24,139 --> 00:44:26,446 To my knowledge, she didn't report it to anybody 706 00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:29,057 but she did tell us about it. 707 00:44:31,886 --> 00:44:34,454 - She was always stuck in the past, 708 00:44:34,584 --> 00:44:36,717 of all the traumatic things that happened to her. 709 00:44:38,197 --> 00:44:39,459 So every time something happened, 710 00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:41,896 she would always compare it to 711 00:44:42,027 --> 00:44:44,029 something that happened in the past. 712 00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:46,509 [cool music] 713 00:44:48,642 --> 00:44:50,949 And her past, she was real fearful of. 714 00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:53,473 [cool music] 715 00:44:57,738 --> 00:45:00,828 - We know now, the science is there, 716 00:45:00,959 --> 00:45:02,917 that there is a significant correlation 717 00:45:03,048 --> 00:45:05,833 between early childhood trauma and later psychotic illness. 718 00:45:08,009 --> 00:45:11,143 I think we have to look back at the psychiatric history 719 00:45:11,273 --> 00:45:16,104 or trauma history so that we can understand 720 00:45:16,235 --> 00:45:19,717 how did she get from this place where she gave birth 721 00:45:19,847 --> 00:45:21,501 to this child that she really wanted 722 00:45:23,503 --> 00:45:25,244 to the events that occur. 723 00:45:25,374 --> 00:45:27,159 - You know what's so fascinating about this case, 724 00:45:27,289 --> 00:45:29,030 and tragic, of course, at the same time 725 00:45:29,161 --> 00:45:32,817 is that there were three babies lost not just one. 726 00:45:32,904 --> 00:45:35,645 - And because it's three babies and not one, 727 00:45:35,776 --> 00:45:39,475 we vilify her three times as much. 728 00:45:39,606 --> 00:45:41,826 - Instead of recognizing that that's a risk factor. 729 00:45:41,956 --> 00:45:45,786 They were all under three and what mom doesn't understand. 730 00:45:45,917 --> 00:45:47,570 - And a woman with mental illness, 731 00:45:47,701 --> 00:45:49,703 a woman who is seriously mentally ill, 732 00:45:49,834 --> 00:45:52,227 I mean, you're familiar with Carol's case. 733 00:45:52,314 --> 00:45:56,492 You've spoken with Rudy you're very well vast in, 734 00:45:56,623 --> 00:45:58,886 you know, her own trauma history. 735 00:45:59,017 --> 00:46:03,021 And it's like a textbook, I mean, she checks all the boxes, 736 00:46:03,151 --> 00:46:06,807 she has, first of all, was hearing, you know, 737 00:46:06,894 --> 00:46:09,810 voices from the time she was age five, 738 00:46:09,941 --> 00:46:13,509 has been a witness to domestic violence has been repeatedly, 739 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,034 you know, sexually abused, gang raped. 740 00:46:16,164 --> 00:46:20,516 And so all of us can only withstand so much. 741 00:46:22,388 --> 00:46:25,826 - When I look at the facts around Carol's case, 742 00:46:25,913 --> 00:46:29,961 the mental illness piece actually isn't just the psychosis, 743 00:46:30,091 --> 00:46:33,399 it's every bit of the baggage that she brought with her 744 00:46:33,529 --> 00:46:36,010 into the work of parenting. 745 00:46:36,097 --> 00:46:39,318 Yeah, who would have thought that it'd be a great idea 746 00:46:39,448 --> 00:46:44,062 to have a woman who had as much trauma as she did as a child 747 00:46:45,193 --> 00:46:48,327 at home by herself, with a two and a half year old, 748 00:46:48,457 --> 00:46:50,285 a one year old and a newborn. 749 00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:52,418 I mean, who should be alone in the house 750 00:46:52,548 --> 00:46:53,723 with a two and a half year old, a one year old 751 00:46:53,854 --> 00:46:55,900 and a newborn for hours at a time? 752 00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:57,684 That's a prescription for disaster 753 00:46:57,815 --> 00:47:00,992 and yet we expect this of mothers every day. 754 00:47:01,122 --> 00:47:04,734 I mean, who among us is so hardy and healthy and strong 755 00:47:04,865 --> 00:47:07,737 that we can go into parenting 756 00:47:07,825 --> 00:47:10,828 three little, little kids in isolation that way? 757 00:47:12,873 --> 00:47:15,963 That's a system that's set up for failure. 758 00:47:16,094 --> 00:47:19,140 The expectation that moms can do this alone 759 00:47:19,271 --> 00:47:22,056 and that they don't need support needs to change. 760 00:47:22,187 --> 00:47:26,234 It's that expectation that motherhood is a solitary sport 761 00:47:26,321 --> 00:47:28,846 that needs to be shifted. 762 00:47:28,976 --> 00:47:31,457 - It's hard for any of us who haven't experienced this 763 00:47:31,587 --> 00:47:33,633 or lived with this firsthand to like, 764 00:47:33,763 --> 00:47:36,984 understand how could this happen, 765 00:47:37,115 --> 00:47:40,205 and yet at the same time, I think we can understand 766 00:47:40,292 --> 00:47:43,599 if we put ourself in Carol's shoes. 767 00:47:43,686 --> 00:47:45,340 Maybe that could have been me. 768 00:47:45,471 --> 00:47:49,954 Like, I wasn't such a strong mom when I had my babies, 769 00:47:50,084 --> 00:47:52,652 it was so hard, so it could have been me, 770 00:47:52,782 --> 00:47:54,784 it could have been me. 771 00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:57,787 [birds chirping] 772 00:47:58,832 --> 00:48:01,182 - Now thinking back, knowing about postpartum 773 00:48:02,575 --> 00:48:03,881 I see the signs now. 774 00:48:06,927 --> 00:48:08,581 - She was getting depressed, 775 00:48:08,668 --> 00:48:11,758 just about a month or two before the incident. 776 00:48:16,371 --> 00:48:19,461 - Her eyes were drooping and she just kept saying, 777 00:48:19,548 --> 00:48:21,159 Oh man, Robin, I'm so tired. 778 00:48:21,289 --> 00:48:23,683 [cool music] 779 00:48:25,946 --> 00:48:28,383 She would just describe her nights. 780 00:48:28,514 --> 00:48:31,430 As soon as she got Xenia down, Yazzie would wake up 781 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,781 and then Yazzie screaming would cause Rudy to wake up 782 00:48:34,912 --> 00:48:36,783 and then he would yell at her, 783 00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:38,828 which would then wake up Xenia 784 00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:41,135 and then now she has two babies to deal with. 785 00:48:41,266 --> 00:48:42,658 It was rough, I told her, 786 00:48:42,789 --> 00:48:45,313 I was like, you need to get him to help you. 787 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,750 [cool music] 788 00:48:49,578 --> 00:48:54,888 - In May, I sensed that Carol was very overwhelmed. 789 00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:57,282 She was depressed, she was trying to do the best she could. 790 00:48:57,412 --> 00:48:59,806 She was trying to help put the girls in daycare 791 00:48:59,937 --> 00:49:02,983 and go back to work, 'cause that was the only way 792 00:49:03,114 --> 00:49:07,901 that she would be able to further her annual salary. 793 00:49:08,423 --> 00:49:11,600 [car engines running] 794 00:49:11,731 --> 00:49:14,255 She didn't like where they were living. 795 00:49:14,386 --> 00:49:16,344 They were living in a back house that was a garage 796 00:49:16,431 --> 00:49:19,652 converted into a room, you know, room and a half. 797 00:49:19,782 --> 00:49:20,653 It was very small. 798 00:49:22,568 --> 00:49:25,701 It wasn't a place for the girls to play in the front yard. 799 00:49:25,788 --> 00:49:28,400 [dogs barking] 800 00:49:30,358 --> 00:49:32,839 Given the childhood that she dealt with, 801 00:49:32,926 --> 00:49:35,015 she wanted more for her children. 802 00:49:35,146 --> 00:49:37,887 She wanted to give them a safe environment to grow up in. 803 00:49:39,498 --> 00:49:41,761 Her children were her motivation. 804 00:49:45,330 --> 00:49:49,029 - The week before my son's birthday party, she was there. 805 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,468 She only had the baby because Sophia and Yazzie, 806 00:49:53,555 --> 00:49:55,818 were with their godmother. 807 00:49:55,949 --> 00:49:58,734 She's like, Oh, I'm just so tired, I just needed some help. 808 00:50:00,258 --> 00:50:01,694 She was there physically 809 00:50:01,781 --> 00:50:03,261 but it didn't seem like she was there mentally. 810 00:50:04,827 --> 00:50:07,787 She was rude, she didn't hold Xenia. 811 00:50:08,962 --> 00:50:10,790 It seemed as she was not Carol. 812 00:50:14,663 --> 00:50:18,711 - Days before it happened, she was acting weird. 813 00:50:20,626 --> 00:50:25,022 Going outside and shutting off the power to the house. 814 00:50:26,893 --> 00:50:29,461 One day she jumped on me, the day before she jumped on me, 815 00:50:29,591 --> 00:50:33,552 and she's not a violent person, she's not a physical person. 816 00:50:35,032 --> 00:50:37,077 - The day before when she was at my house, 817 00:50:37,208 --> 00:50:41,864 even the look in her face, her eyes were dilated. 818 00:50:41,995 --> 00:50:45,085 I remember telling my daughter, her eyes look funny. 819 00:50:47,131 --> 00:50:48,784 But never have I imagined that they were funny 820 00:50:48,915 --> 00:50:51,135 because of something she was going through. 821 00:50:51,265 --> 00:50:53,615 [cool music] 822 00:51:10,154 --> 00:51:13,548 [dial pad tone] 823 00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:14,723 - [Automatic message]Your call has been forwarded 824 00:51:14,854 --> 00:51:17,161 to an automatic voice message system. 825 00:51:18,379 --> 00:51:21,904 - [Carol] Mum, I think you should call me back please. 826 00:51:25,256 --> 00:51:27,127 - She was acting weird since the morning, 827 00:51:27,214 --> 00:51:30,217 since we woke up she was acting weird. 828 00:51:31,175 --> 00:51:34,308 She woke up screaming like a crazy person. 829 00:51:38,182 --> 00:51:40,923 I didn't know how to deal with it or how, 830 00:51:41,010 --> 00:51:44,013 so I just kinda walked out and then called her mom. 831 00:51:44,144 --> 00:51:46,494 [cool music] 832 00:51:48,235 --> 00:51:51,673 - I felt guilty about that day 833 00:51:51,804 --> 00:51:53,327 because I couldn't answer my phone, 834 00:51:53,458 --> 00:51:55,199 I was driving school buses 835 00:51:57,201 --> 00:51:58,985 and it kept ringing and ringing and ringing. 836 00:51:59,072 --> 00:52:01,466 [phone ringing] 837 00:52:04,425 --> 00:52:05,470 - [Automatic message]Your call has been forwarded 838 00:52:05,557 --> 00:52:07,298 to an automatic voice message system. 839 00:52:09,865 --> 00:52:12,477 - [Carol] I need help mum, I'm just nervous, 840 00:52:12,607 --> 00:52:16,220 I've been having anxiety, I can't sleep. 841 00:52:17,177 --> 00:52:20,659 And everything just feels really wrong. 842 00:52:20,789 --> 00:52:23,270 I think I just, I just need you to call me back 843 00:52:23,357 --> 00:52:25,794 when you have a second, okay, I love you. 844 00:52:25,925 --> 00:52:28,101 [cool music] 845 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,891 - The day of, I was supposed to watch the baby. 846 00:52:37,415 --> 00:52:40,374 I was gonna watch it, Sophia and the baby. 847 00:52:40,505 --> 00:52:41,419 She was supposed to bring them over 848 00:52:41,549 --> 00:52:43,421 so I that could watch them. 849 00:52:43,551 --> 00:52:45,031 And I have guilt because I'd tell myself 850 00:52:45,162 --> 00:52:46,772 if I would had a car, 851 00:52:46,859 --> 00:52:50,602 I could have picked them up and they still would be here. 852 00:52:53,257 --> 00:52:56,303 [dial pad tone] 853 00:52:56,434 --> 00:52:57,217 - [Automatic message]Your call has been forwarded 854 00:52:57,348 --> 00:52:59,001 to an automatic voice message system. 855 00:52:59,132 --> 00:53:01,308 [baby crying] 856 00:53:01,439 --> 00:53:03,354 - [Carol] Mum, if you could call me back, 857 00:53:03,484 --> 00:53:06,313 I think I really need some help, 858 00:53:06,444 --> 00:53:07,488 we had this really big fight this morning 859 00:53:07,619 --> 00:53:10,274 and I don't know what to do anymore. 860 00:53:11,536 --> 00:53:15,757 We're running out of money and I'm just left home tired. 861 00:53:19,935 --> 00:53:22,460 - In the afternoon I was outside working on the car 862 00:53:22,547 --> 00:53:25,027 in the afternoon I went to the Auto-parts 863 00:53:25,158 --> 00:53:28,379 to get a part for the car. 864 00:53:29,380 --> 00:53:31,295 But before I left I called her mom again 865 00:53:31,425 --> 00:53:32,731 and told her that she was acting weird, 866 00:53:32,861 --> 00:53:34,036 Carol I was acting real weird. 867 00:53:36,996 --> 00:53:39,346 - I get off work at 4:15, 868 00:53:39,477 --> 00:53:43,307 I parked in the driveway, I went to the house, 869 00:53:43,437 --> 00:53:47,702 and she's nude, I asked her, Carol are you okay? 870 00:53:47,789 --> 00:53:50,270 The girls are dressed they're all three laying on the bed 871 00:53:50,401 --> 00:53:53,230 and I thought they were obviously asleep. 872 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,014 I said oh, and I hugged her. 873 00:53:55,144 --> 00:53:55,971 How about your day Carol? 874 00:53:56,102 --> 00:53:57,886 Oh it wasn't a good day mom. 875 00:53:57,973 --> 00:54:01,499 [car engines running] 876 00:54:02,761 --> 00:54:06,765 - Her mom cornered me screaming at me across the street. 877 00:54:10,029 --> 00:54:11,683 She didn't want me to go in the house, 878 00:54:11,770 --> 00:54:15,121 and told me Carol had killed my daughters. 879 00:54:16,862 --> 00:54:20,779 And I went inside, and I see my little girls dead. 880 00:54:25,958 --> 00:54:28,221 Carol was naked holding a knife 881 00:54:31,659 --> 00:54:33,574 and I wanted to kill her, 882 00:54:35,489 --> 00:54:37,012 I wanted to kill her but I don't know what stopped me. 883 00:54:43,323 --> 00:54:46,195 She backed up and went around that bed. 884 00:54:46,326 --> 00:54:48,197 She did have a knife in her hand. 885 00:54:48,328 --> 00:54:50,112 She was the animal backed up in the corner 886 00:54:50,243 --> 00:54:52,289 that's how I'm gonna say it. 887 00:54:52,419 --> 00:54:54,856 She's calling come on, come on, look at me, Rudy. 888 00:54:54,987 --> 00:54:57,206 I'd never seen my daughter act like that. 889 00:54:57,337 --> 00:55:00,297 She sat on her bed and three kids, 890 00:55:00,384 --> 00:55:02,864 the three children there and she went like this. 891 00:55:04,605 --> 00:55:09,175 She took a breath, she lift up her left breast 892 00:55:10,219 --> 00:55:10,916 and she stabbed herself. 893 00:55:11,046 --> 00:55:13,614 [sirens wailing] 894 00:55:15,486 --> 00:55:18,793 - Carol had a pretty significant suicide attempt, 895 00:55:18,924 --> 00:55:22,754 check, she ruptured the sack around her heart. 896 00:55:22,884 --> 00:55:25,452 She got pretty close, actually to her heart. 897 00:55:25,583 --> 00:55:30,370 So that tells us she wanted to die right away. 898 00:55:30,805 --> 00:55:33,373 [sirens wailing] 899 00:55:41,903 --> 00:55:44,036 - In a surprising number of cases 900 00:55:44,123 --> 00:55:45,385 of mothers who kill their children, 901 00:55:45,516 --> 00:55:49,128 there's also an attempt at suicide. 902 00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:54,612 It's all a product of a decision that the mom has made, 903 00:55:55,569 --> 00:55:56,570 that she's failed in her job 904 00:55:56,701 --> 00:55:58,050 and that she has to kill herself. 905 00:55:58,137 --> 00:56:01,227 And then this again distorted thinking 906 00:56:01,358 --> 00:56:03,621 about what a good mom would do 907 00:56:03,751 --> 00:56:05,362 if she's actually going to kill herself, 908 00:56:05,492 --> 00:56:06,885 which would be to protect her children 909 00:56:07,015 --> 00:56:08,626 by taking them with her. 910 00:56:09,757 --> 00:56:13,935 And it's a pattern that is not always recognized 911 00:56:14,066 --> 00:56:16,547 because the crime of killing the children, 912 00:56:16,677 --> 00:56:20,115 is so heinous and shocking, 913 00:56:20,246 --> 00:56:22,291 that we ignore the suicide attempt. 914 00:56:22,422 --> 00:56:23,728 We just sort of, 915 00:56:23,858 --> 00:56:26,208 yah, it was like not even a serious attempt. 916 00:56:26,295 --> 00:56:28,210 But we actually strip ourselves then of the ability 917 00:56:28,297 --> 00:56:30,561 to understand these cases. 918 00:56:30,691 --> 00:56:33,259 That the genesis of the crime comes from the moms decision 919 00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:34,956 that she can't go on anymore. 920 00:56:35,087 --> 00:56:37,219 [cool music] 921 00:56:44,618 --> 00:56:47,882 - It's been over a year since we started on Carol's case, 922 00:56:47,969 --> 00:56:51,886 and were prepared for trial at this point. 923 00:56:52,017 --> 00:56:54,498 [wheels rolling] 924 00:56:56,195 --> 00:56:58,327 Well, it's a big case, it's an important case. 925 00:56:58,415 --> 00:57:01,026 You know, Carol's life is on the line here 926 00:57:01,113 --> 00:57:04,769 and it's basically an area of law 927 00:57:04,899 --> 00:57:07,032 that's really not touched a lot. 928 00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:08,816 It's not seen a lot. 929 00:57:09,948 --> 00:57:12,429 And I don't think the laws are necessarily in line 930 00:57:12,516 --> 00:57:14,953 with what the defense is, 931 00:57:15,083 --> 00:57:16,520 so we're hoping that 932 00:57:17,608 --> 00:57:20,045 we can get the right result and change things. 933 00:57:20,175 --> 00:57:22,439 Change the way that it's seen. 934 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,571 And maybe things will change in the future. 935 00:57:24,702 --> 00:57:26,007 That's what we're hoping, 936 00:57:26,138 --> 00:57:27,356 we're hoping for a change in the law. 937 00:57:28,488 --> 00:57:30,795 [cool music] 938 00:57:37,758 --> 00:57:40,587 - Although people will describe this country 939 00:57:40,718 --> 00:57:43,547 as the most civilized country in the world, 940 00:57:43,677 --> 00:57:47,507 when it comes to issues of postpartum depression psychosis, 941 00:57:47,638 --> 00:57:50,075 resulting in the death of a child, 942 00:57:50,205 --> 00:57:54,383 we're backward were not progressive were regressive. 943 00:57:54,514 --> 00:57:57,386 [cool music] 944 00:57:57,517 --> 00:58:01,521 - The United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, 945 00:58:01,652 --> 00:58:06,265 and 29 other European countries have infanticide laws. 946 00:58:07,701 --> 00:58:09,660 And these infanticide laws, 947 00:58:09,790 --> 00:58:13,490 provide for the biological vulnerability of childbirth. 948 00:58:15,970 --> 00:58:20,279 If a woman kills her baby under one year of age, 949 00:58:20,409 --> 00:58:23,674 and she is found to have a mental illness, 950 00:58:23,804 --> 00:58:27,939 she is charged with manslaughter instead of homicide, 951 00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:30,071 and she sent to a psychiatric hospital. 952 00:58:30,202 --> 00:58:32,552 [cool music] 953 00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:34,728 - Here in the United States, 954 00:58:34,859 --> 00:58:38,297 we think of these issues very, very differently. 955 00:58:38,427 --> 00:58:40,952 And the laws are in direct conflict 956 00:58:41,082 --> 00:58:44,129 with how we think about psychosis, 957 00:58:44,259 --> 00:58:47,436 and what we know about postpartum psychosis 958 00:58:47,567 --> 00:58:48,960 as mental health professionals. 959 00:58:49,090 --> 00:58:51,223 [cool music] 960 00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:59,623 - The way that the criminal justice system responds 961 00:58:59,753 --> 00:59:03,148 to mental illness, is to have a statute, 962 00:59:03,278 --> 00:59:04,889 every state has its own statute 963 00:59:04,976 --> 00:59:07,326 for deciding who's insane and who's not. 964 00:59:07,456 --> 00:59:10,764 If you're insane you have a 100% defense 965 00:59:10,851 --> 00:59:14,115 against the charge of homicide or of murder, right? 966 00:59:14,246 --> 00:59:15,552 So the stakes are really high 967 00:59:15,682 --> 00:59:16,901 for the criminal justice system 968 00:59:17,031 --> 00:59:18,337 'cause you're gonna walk away 969 00:59:18,467 --> 00:59:21,514 with a not guilty, for reasons of insanity. 970 00:59:21,645 --> 00:59:25,562 That possibility makes many states so nervous 971 00:59:25,692 --> 00:59:27,041 that they have clung to 972 00:59:27,128 --> 00:59:31,176 a 19th century definition of insanity. 973 00:59:31,306 --> 00:59:33,482 [cool music] 974 00:59:50,021 --> 00:59:52,937 - About half of our states has something called, 975 00:59:53,067 --> 00:59:57,637 the M'Naghten's statute and what that states is that, 976 00:59:59,117 --> 01:00:01,380 in order to be found, mentally ill, 977 01:00:01,510 --> 01:00:05,340 the person did not know right from wrong 978 01:00:05,427 --> 01:00:06,994 at the time of crime. 979 01:00:07,125 --> 01:00:09,431 [cool music] 980 01:00:09,562 --> 01:00:14,349 - These laws assume that a person who is in the throes 981 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,526 of deep mental illness is actually capable 982 01:00:17,657 --> 01:00:20,138 of thinking logically about right and wrong. 983 01:00:20,268 --> 01:00:23,445 And from the medical point of view, by definition, 984 01:00:23,576 --> 01:00:25,404 somebody who is in the throes 985 01:00:25,534 --> 01:00:27,624 of this profound psychotic episode 986 01:00:27,754 --> 01:00:30,409 is not capable of rational thought. 987 01:00:30,539 --> 01:00:33,630 Our doctors laugh at it when we tell them, 988 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,807 oh, this is how you decide who's insane and who's sane. 989 01:00:36,937 --> 01:00:39,287 [cool music] 990 01:00:42,334 --> 01:00:44,815 - There were two phases to this trial, 991 01:00:44,902 --> 01:00:47,905 the first was the guilty phase to determine whether 992 01:00:48,035 --> 01:00:52,431 Carol was guilty of committing the murders 993 01:00:52,518 --> 01:00:54,389 and then the sanity phase. 994 01:00:57,175 --> 01:00:59,438 [footsteps] 995 01:01:01,483 --> 01:01:04,051 [door opening] 996 01:01:06,532 --> 01:01:07,664 - [Judge] Let's go ahead on the record now 997 01:01:07,794 --> 01:01:09,143 people versus Coronado. 998 01:01:09,274 --> 01:01:12,973 Mrs Coronado is present represented by Mr. Allen 999 01:01:13,104 --> 01:01:15,410 and we have Ms Spear here for the people. 1000 01:01:17,282 --> 01:01:19,719 - Certainly this is one of the most heinous crimes 1001 01:01:19,850 --> 01:01:22,504 I've seen, and I've seen quite a lot in 10 years. 1002 01:01:22,635 --> 01:01:25,812 But those little girls, they were absolutely slaughtered. 1003 01:01:25,943 --> 01:01:28,032 I actually went to the girls autopsies 1004 01:01:28,162 --> 01:01:31,992 and those girls are babies 1005 01:01:32,123 --> 01:01:34,995 and to see babies laid out on a cold slab like that 1006 01:01:35,126 --> 01:01:38,085 was just absolutely terrifying 1007 01:01:38,216 --> 01:01:39,870 and something I will never ever forget. 1008 01:01:41,698 --> 01:01:42,524 - [Male reporter] The prosecutor had investigators 1009 01:01:42,611 --> 01:01:44,135 describe the knife they found 1010 01:01:44,265 --> 01:01:46,833 including three knives laid out on a table. 1011 01:01:46,964 --> 01:01:49,053 She's accusing Coronado of planning the murders. 1012 01:01:53,753 --> 01:01:56,669 - We heard from corners and evidence 1013 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,106 related to blood splatter and autopsies. 1014 01:02:00,368 --> 01:02:01,935 It was just a hard day overall 1015 01:02:02,066 --> 01:02:03,937 seeing all the photos and the evidence. 1016 01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:08,768 Carol's demeanor and emotions, 1017 01:02:08,899 --> 01:02:11,075 change very drastically and very rapidly 1018 01:02:11,205 --> 01:02:13,860 when she hears something because for her, 1019 01:02:13,947 --> 01:02:16,558 it's like the first time she's hearing it and you know, 1020 01:02:16,689 --> 01:02:18,691 not having any memory of the incident 1021 01:02:18,822 --> 01:02:21,563 when you're confronted with some of these issues, 1022 01:02:21,694 --> 01:02:23,827 it's very traumatizing to her 1023 01:02:23,914 --> 01:02:28,092 and she just doesn't know and doesn't believe 1024 01:02:28,222 --> 01:02:29,876 that she could have done this. 1025 01:02:29,963 --> 01:02:32,313 [cool music] 1026 01:02:44,804 --> 01:02:46,327 We got to court this morning, 1027 01:02:46,458 --> 01:02:49,200 we were supposed to go right into our closing arguments, 1028 01:02:49,330 --> 01:02:51,942 but Carol had some type of psychotic break. 1029 01:02:53,857 --> 01:02:56,424 You know, she's confused, she's asking for her mom, 1030 01:02:56,511 --> 01:02:58,557 asking for her kids and asking for Rudy. 1031 01:02:59,645 --> 01:03:01,038 - [Judge] At this time, 1032 01:03:01,168 --> 01:03:04,693 the court reporter cannot hear Mr. Allen, 1033 01:03:04,824 --> 01:03:07,348 make a record because of the disruption by Mrs. Coronado, 1034 01:03:07,479 --> 01:03:09,307 at this time the court is gonna order 1035 01:03:09,394 --> 01:03:11,091 that she be removed from the courtroom. 1036 01:03:11,222 --> 01:03:13,833 - [Carol] Stop, stop saying my name. 1037 01:03:13,964 --> 01:03:14,791 - [Judge] While you're doing that 1038 01:03:14,921 --> 01:03:16,967 go ahead and make a record. 1039 01:03:17,097 --> 01:03:18,707 - [Steve] Your honor, during the course of the morning, 1040 01:03:18,838 --> 01:03:20,753 my client became more despondent-- 1041 01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:21,972 - [Carol] Excuse me, Steve, Steve. 1042 01:03:22,059 --> 01:03:23,234 - [Steve] Let me talk, I need to talk, 1043 01:03:23,364 --> 01:03:25,236 withdrawn, confused and got furious 1044 01:03:25,366 --> 01:03:27,020 and her overall behavior is altered. 1045 01:03:27,151 --> 01:03:27,934 - [Carol] Excuse me, excuse me, I-- 1046 01:03:28,065 --> 01:03:28,979 - [Judge] Mrs. Coronado! 1047 01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:31,111 - [Carol] Stop moving the table. 1048 01:03:31,242 --> 01:03:34,027 - [Judge] Alright, let's go ahead and remove her, 1049 01:03:34,158 --> 01:03:36,290 remove her from the court please. 1050 01:03:36,421 --> 01:03:40,642 [judge drawn out by carol's screaming] 1051 01:03:44,037 --> 01:03:47,345 - She was lifted and removed by handcuffs. 1052 01:03:47,475 --> 01:03:49,651 They lifted her off the ground. 1053 01:03:49,782 --> 01:03:52,872 She screamed through the hallway, it was terrifying. 1054 01:03:54,004 --> 01:03:57,268 You know, I've never never seen her like this before. 1055 01:03:57,398 --> 01:04:00,184 I don't believe she understands the nature of 1056 01:04:00,314 --> 01:04:01,663 why she's there anymore. 1057 01:04:01,794 --> 01:04:04,884 She's having a severe psychotic break. 1058 01:04:05,015 --> 01:04:06,625 I declared a doubt as to her competency 1059 01:04:06,755 --> 01:04:09,236 and the judge didn't find 1060 01:04:09,367 --> 01:04:11,978 substantial evidence of that today. 1061 01:04:13,023 --> 01:04:15,852 She feels alone, you know she feels trapped. 1062 01:04:17,114 --> 01:04:20,030 And I'm afraid for her safety and her well being right now. 1063 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,684 [birds chirping] 1064 01:04:25,949 --> 01:04:30,692 - [Judge] People versus Caroline Coronado BA425234, 1065 01:04:30,823 --> 01:04:33,957 the court finds as follows, 1066 01:04:34,044 --> 01:04:36,655 the court finds the defendant guilty of murder 1067 01:04:36,785 --> 01:04:41,486 upon Xenia C guilty of murder upon Yazmine C, 1068 01:04:41,616 --> 01:04:43,880 guilty of murder upon Sophia C. 1069 01:04:46,056 --> 01:04:48,493 The court finds the murder to be in the first degree. 1070 01:04:50,974 --> 01:04:53,367 - Carol Coronado gave up her right to a jury trial 1071 01:04:53,454 --> 01:04:56,240 instead decided to have a judge decide her fate. 1072 01:04:56,370 --> 01:04:57,937 Today that judge decided that 1073 01:04:58,024 --> 01:05:00,287 she was guilty of first degree murder 1074 01:05:00,418 --> 01:05:02,333 and the deaths of her three young daughters. 1075 01:05:02,463 --> 01:05:04,509 During her last court appearance a week ago, 1076 01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:06,728 Coronado had a breakdown and had to be dragged 1077 01:05:06,859 --> 01:05:08,382 from the courtroom kicking and screaming 1078 01:05:08,469 --> 01:05:10,689 and crying out for her mother, husband and children. 1079 01:05:12,038 --> 01:05:13,997 Do you have a couple minutes? - Yeah 1080 01:05:15,085 --> 01:05:17,870 - Okay let me just ask you to, can you give us 1081 01:05:18,001 --> 01:05:20,960 just your impression of the judge's decision today? 1082 01:05:21,091 --> 01:05:22,701 Your attorney was saying, you know, 1083 01:05:22,831 --> 01:05:25,660 it was not really unexpected the decision today. 1084 01:05:25,791 --> 01:05:27,619 - She physically did the action, 1085 01:05:27,749 --> 01:05:29,490 but she mentally didn't do it. 1086 01:05:31,710 --> 01:05:33,799 She lost her mind. 1087 01:05:33,930 --> 01:05:36,889 It tears me apart because it's my little girls that I lost. 1088 01:05:36,976 --> 01:05:38,064 I lost my whole family, 1089 01:05:40,197 --> 01:05:40,806 my three little girls. 1090 01:05:43,069 --> 01:05:45,767 And Carol, she didn't mean to do that. 1091 01:05:47,073 --> 01:05:48,683 I strongly believe that. - Thank you. 1092 01:05:52,122 --> 01:05:55,255 The sanity phase of the trial that begins tomorrow, 1093 01:05:55,386 --> 01:05:57,475 now, since the DA is not seeking the death penalty 1094 01:05:57,605 --> 01:05:58,867 in this case, the sanity phase 1095 01:05:58,998 --> 01:06:00,869 will decide whether Carol Coronado, 1096 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,523 spends the rest of her life in prison 1097 01:06:02,654 --> 01:06:04,308 or sent to a mental hospital. 1098 01:06:04,438 --> 01:06:06,745 [cool music] 1099 01:06:10,792 --> 01:06:12,490 - I've never spoken to Miss Coronado personally, 1100 01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:14,231 so it's very difficult for me to give you 1101 01:06:14,361 --> 01:06:17,103 an accurate description but from what I've read about her, 1102 01:06:17,234 --> 01:06:19,976 and her employment records her records in the army, 1103 01:06:20,106 --> 01:06:22,065 the military she seemed nice 1104 01:06:22,195 --> 01:06:24,067 and she seemed like a nice lady. 1105 01:06:25,111 --> 01:06:27,505 I don't know that I can tell you exactly how 1106 01:06:27,635 --> 01:06:28,985 you get from being this nice lady 1107 01:06:29,115 --> 01:06:31,378 to committing this types of heinous crimes. 1108 01:06:31,509 --> 01:06:33,859 [cool music] 1109 01:06:36,775 --> 01:06:38,385 - [Male reporter] It was hard to see from behind her 1110 01:06:38,516 --> 01:06:41,562 but her lawyer says Carol Coronado did shed a few tears. 1111 01:06:41,693 --> 01:06:44,043 Deputies were describing what they found in her bedroom 1112 01:06:44,174 --> 01:06:47,525 in Carson in May of last year, when one deputy saw her, 1113 01:06:47,655 --> 01:06:50,528 he said quote, she just had a blank stare on her face. 1114 01:06:50,658 --> 01:06:51,964 Another said quote, 1115 01:06:52,095 --> 01:06:53,748 I don't know if she knew we were there or not. 1116 01:06:55,533 --> 01:06:57,056 - They saw her in a state of confusion, you know, 1117 01:06:57,143 --> 01:06:59,058 and that confusion is very important 1118 01:06:59,189 --> 01:07:02,453 for major depressive disorder, postpartum psychosis, 1119 01:07:02,540 --> 01:07:04,020 the blank stare everything that shows 1120 01:07:04,150 --> 01:07:05,238 she's just not all there. 1121 01:07:09,677 --> 01:07:13,942 - Well, my role in the trial was to help explain 1122 01:07:14,030 --> 01:07:16,075 Carol's state of mind at the time 1123 01:07:16,206 --> 01:07:18,338 that she took the life of her three children. 1124 01:07:19,774 --> 01:07:22,734 I met with Carol three or four times, 1125 01:07:22,864 --> 01:07:24,301 it was very clear to me 1126 01:07:24,431 --> 01:07:27,260 that with the birth of each of her children, 1127 01:07:27,391 --> 01:07:32,004 her perinatal mental illness became more and more severe. 1128 01:07:33,832 --> 01:07:35,703 It was very clear to me after I left her the first time 1129 01:07:35,834 --> 01:07:38,010 that this was a woman who had suffered 1130 01:07:38,141 --> 01:07:39,185 with postpartum psychosis. 1131 01:07:39,316 --> 01:07:41,709 [cool music] 1132 01:07:48,499 --> 01:07:51,589 - I saw Carol at Twin Towers Correctional Facility, 1133 01:07:51,719 --> 01:07:54,548 once a week over the course of about a year. 1134 01:07:55,549 --> 01:07:58,378 In my professional opinion, Carol Coronado, 1135 01:07:58,509 --> 01:08:01,077 was psychotic at the time of her crime. 1136 01:08:02,904 --> 01:08:06,082 The two psychiatrists who saw her in the first few days, 1137 01:08:06,212 --> 01:08:08,475 both, you know said she was psychotic. 1138 01:08:10,956 --> 01:08:14,394 They mentioned in trial that we kept her on suicide watch, 1139 01:08:14,525 --> 01:08:18,485 for over a year in a gown with 24 hour, 1140 01:08:18,616 --> 01:08:20,357 one to one observation, 1141 01:08:20,487 --> 01:08:24,796 and her risk for suicide was one of the highest 1142 01:08:24,926 --> 01:08:27,364 if not the highest at the time at Twin Towers, 1143 01:08:27,494 --> 01:08:30,018 for any of the 15,000 inmates. 1144 01:08:30,932 --> 01:08:32,325 You're looking at somebody 1145 01:08:32,412 --> 01:08:36,242 who is in need of severe psychiatric treatment. 1146 01:08:36,373 --> 01:08:38,679 [cool music] 1147 01:08:55,566 --> 01:08:59,657 - She needs help, she'd be rising somewhere where 1148 01:08:59,744 --> 01:09:01,137 they can get her help. 1149 01:09:02,355 --> 01:09:06,577 She's a role model person, this disease took over her mind 1150 01:09:07,969 --> 01:09:10,407 and she needs mental help. 1151 01:09:13,932 --> 01:09:15,934 - [Judge] The court finds as follows, 1152 01:09:16,064 --> 01:09:18,110 the record should reflect that the court did 1153 01:09:18,241 --> 01:09:23,071 consider Rule 4.423 Subsection B, subsection two, 1154 01:09:23,811 --> 01:09:25,204 that the defendant was suffering 1155 01:09:25,335 --> 01:09:27,206 from a mental or physical condition 1156 01:09:27,337 --> 01:09:31,079 that significantly reduced culpability for the crime. 1157 01:09:31,210 --> 01:09:34,692 The difficulty the court had with that rule 1158 01:09:34,822 --> 01:09:36,781 was that although the court found the defendant 1159 01:09:36,911 --> 01:09:40,219 was suffering from a mental or physical condition, 1160 01:09:40,350 --> 01:09:44,092 the language significantly reduced culpability 1161 01:09:44,180 --> 01:09:47,400 is something where the court believed it lacked. 1162 01:09:47,531 --> 01:09:51,361 She is ineligible for probation and probation is denied. 1163 01:09:53,232 --> 01:09:55,974 The defendant is sentenced to three consecutive life terms 1164 01:09:56,104 --> 01:09:58,759 of imprisonment without the possibility of parole. 1165 01:10:02,415 --> 01:10:04,156 - And a South Bay mother 1166 01:10:04,287 --> 01:10:05,723 is going to spend the rest of her life behind bars 1167 01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:08,552 for murdering her three daughters. 1168 01:10:08,682 --> 01:10:11,816 Her lawyer says she suffered from postpartum psychosis. 1169 01:10:11,946 --> 01:10:13,644 Well today the judge said that he believes 1170 01:10:13,774 --> 01:10:15,341 Coronado needs treatment but he said, 1171 01:10:15,428 --> 01:10:18,039 quote that treatment will have to be in state prison. 1172 01:10:20,259 --> 01:10:24,307 - I can't tell you why the judge wasn't able to understand 1173 01:10:26,309 --> 01:10:30,574 the role that mental illness played in Carol's case. 1174 01:10:30,704 --> 01:10:33,054 That just doesn't seem like a just outcome to me. 1175 01:10:33,185 --> 01:10:36,362 And I don't know how it's serving justice really at all 1176 01:10:36,493 --> 01:10:38,146 to have her spend the rest of her life in prison. 1177 01:10:38,277 --> 01:10:40,627 [cool music] 1178 01:11:00,691 --> 01:11:02,345 - How is she doing? 1179 01:11:02,432 --> 01:11:07,175 - Not good, she told me to tell the family that 1180 01:11:07,306 --> 01:11:09,743 she loves you guys and it's not your fault. 1181 01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:14,139 I failed, you know, I failed Carol. 1182 01:11:16,402 --> 01:11:18,099 I don't know what else I needed to do. 1183 01:11:18,230 --> 01:11:20,537 You know, I mean, obviously I respect the judge 1184 01:11:20,667 --> 01:11:22,756 and his opinion, but he got it wrong. 1185 01:11:24,889 --> 01:11:27,892 I just, I think the evidence was there. 1186 01:11:28,022 --> 01:11:29,676 I just don't know what was missing. 1187 01:11:34,768 --> 01:11:37,031 When you look at this and you look at postpartum psychosis, 1188 01:11:37,162 --> 01:11:39,904 and you recognize that it's real, 1189 01:11:40,034 --> 01:11:41,297 and it's placed right in front of our face, 1190 01:11:41,427 --> 01:11:43,603 and there's no other rational explanation 1191 01:11:45,083 --> 01:11:47,390 and they still won't even consider it. 1192 01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,783 [footsteps] 1193 01:11:52,525 --> 01:11:56,268 - This incredibly difficult case of Carol Coronado 1194 01:11:56,399 --> 01:11:59,576 shows the need for there to be a law. 1195 01:12:01,534 --> 01:12:04,363 There is a gap, when the judge says, 1196 01:12:04,494 --> 01:12:07,148 I understand the individual 1197 01:12:07,235 --> 01:12:10,500 was suffering from mental health challenges, 1198 01:12:10,587 --> 01:12:14,068 but we don't have any regulations to address this, 1199 01:12:15,461 --> 01:12:17,985 and you're gonna ride in a jail cell 1200 01:12:18,116 --> 01:12:19,987 for the rest of your life and we're not gonna address 1201 01:12:20,118 --> 01:12:23,556 the actual issue, makes no sense to me as a civil society. 1202 01:12:26,951 --> 01:12:30,476 - We failed her twice, we failed her twice. 1203 01:12:30,607 --> 01:12:33,697 When she reached out and knew she needed help, 1204 01:12:33,827 --> 01:12:35,655 we weren't there for her. 1205 01:12:35,786 --> 01:12:40,399 And then to know that she's facing a life in prison, 1206 01:12:40,530 --> 01:12:44,272 is gut wrenching and we have two broken systems, 1207 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,538 a broken medical system and a broken legal system. 1208 01:12:48,668 --> 01:12:51,062 [cool music] 1209 01:13:01,289 --> 01:13:04,118 [lorry engine running] 1210 01:13:05,946 --> 01:13:08,471 - The idea of Carol being in jail, it's unreal. 1211 01:13:11,735 --> 01:13:15,565 It hurts me, i wish I could help her, she needs help. 1212 01:13:18,394 --> 01:13:20,787 - It pains me to know that she's sitting there. 1213 01:13:20,918 --> 01:13:22,572 Because guess what, it can happen to you, 1214 01:13:22,702 --> 01:13:24,791 it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. 1215 01:13:24,922 --> 01:13:27,881 It's unbearable, and it's something that, 1216 01:13:28,012 --> 01:13:29,013 we should fight for her. 1217 01:13:33,670 --> 01:13:35,411 - I have sympathy for what happened to Mrs Coronado 1218 01:13:35,541 --> 01:13:36,847 leading up to the murders. 1219 01:13:36,977 --> 01:13:38,849 She was in an extraordinarily bad situation, 1220 01:13:38,979 --> 01:13:42,853 her family was financially strapped for cash, 1221 01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:46,596 she was stuck caring for these kids every single day, 1222 01:13:46,683 --> 01:13:48,424 So I have sympathy for her situation 1223 01:13:48,511 --> 01:13:50,338 up until the time of the murders. 1224 01:13:50,469 --> 01:13:52,471 But obviously I have no sympathy 1225 01:13:52,558 --> 01:13:54,386 for a person who commits those types of crimes. 1226 01:13:55,431 --> 01:13:57,694 - It seems obvious to me 1227 01:13:57,824 --> 01:14:01,001 having studied these cases for so many years, 1228 01:14:01,132 --> 01:14:04,135 that the right response is one of empathy. 1229 01:14:04,222 --> 01:14:06,616 Because unless we try to put ourselves in their shoes, 1230 01:14:06,746 --> 01:14:10,184 we strip ourselves of the ability to stop crimes like this 1231 01:14:10,315 --> 01:14:11,751 from happening in the future. 1232 01:14:11,838 --> 01:14:15,407 So if we care about the babies, if we care about the babies, 1233 01:14:15,538 --> 01:14:17,365 then we need to actually put ourselves in her shoes 1234 01:14:17,496 --> 01:14:20,281 and figure out what she would have needed 1235 01:14:20,412 --> 01:14:22,936 in order to be able to succeed at parenting 1236 01:14:23,067 --> 01:14:24,895 under these circumstances. 1237 01:14:25,025 --> 01:14:27,593 [cool music] 1238 01:14:28,594 --> 01:14:30,422 - I am not spending my life behind bars, 1239 01:14:30,509 --> 01:14:32,163 I think I've been given a great opportunity. 1240 01:14:33,947 --> 01:14:38,909 After I lost Michael, I was tried by a judge, 1241 01:14:40,084 --> 01:14:41,215 who found me not guilty by reason of insanity. 1242 01:14:43,696 --> 01:14:47,700 I went back to school, got my master's degree in nursing. 1243 01:14:47,831 --> 01:14:50,007 I wrote my thesis on 1244 01:14:50,094 --> 01:14:52,966 screening for postpartum mental illness. 1245 01:14:54,315 --> 01:14:56,666 I think my story is one of hope. 1246 01:14:56,796 --> 01:15:00,408 I've lived that horrible story 1247 01:15:00,539 --> 01:15:02,410 and I've been able to overcome it. 1248 01:15:05,631 --> 01:15:06,980 - My wish would be that 1249 01:15:07,111 --> 01:15:10,462 we could look at these women differently, 1250 01:15:10,593 --> 01:15:14,422 and that we stop blaming women and punishing them 1251 01:15:14,553 --> 01:15:19,036 for an illness without recognizing that they are truly ill. 1252 01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:21,517 And that it is the illness 1253 01:15:21,647 --> 01:15:23,693 that's driving their behavior, not them. 1254 01:15:27,523 --> 01:15:30,961 What we need to do is care for these women 1255 01:15:31,091 --> 01:15:32,528 through the mental health system. 1256 01:15:32,658 --> 01:15:34,878 We need to get them treatment, 1257 01:15:35,008 --> 01:15:38,664 because we know that when these women are properly treated, 1258 01:15:38,795 --> 01:15:41,058 they're going to get well, they're going to get well. 1259 01:15:41,145 --> 01:15:43,277 [cool music]