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Hello. Hi.
Hello. About your book, if you could call me back...
on my mobile. Thank you.
Please, hello, can you call me? It's about your book.
Thank you.
Hello, hi, good afternoon.
If you can call me, I'm the subject of your book.
Thank you.
He was the number one source of Israeli intelligence.
Few agents in history provided such...
splendid information. Out of this world.
The Israelis believe that he was their man,
but he tricked the Israelis into taking him seriously.
He served Egypt well.
What were the implications of the spy being a double?
Ashraf Marwan was...
the son of an army general,
and people see in that a sign of social seniority.
He graduated in chemistry.
At the same time...
he met Mona, daughter of Gamal Abdel Nasser...
President in Egypt.
They fell in love.
He knew how...
to jump to the good bed.
He married the daughter of Nasser. The almighty Nasser.
Nasser was like God for the Arabs.
Idol.
Nasser.
Israel crippled the Egyptian Air Force on the ground.
And then, Egypt lost the Sinai Peninsula.
Egypt felt disbelief that this could happen to us.
It was a dent in the dignity of the country,
and the process of rebuilding the army started
for one objective, launching a war,
regaining the Sinai,
and regaining the sense of pride which every Egyptian felt...
before 1967.
Nasser, he felt that this guy
did not want to marry the girl for her personality,
he wanted to marry the daughter of the President.
So, Nasser gave Ashraf Marwan a junior position in the presidency.
It was like when you have adversary politician,
you bring him close to keep him under your eye,
rather than leave him free to wreak havoc.
Ashraf felt in a way demeaned, punished,
and made him resent Nasser.
So, he came to London with his new wife.
But reports back home...
indicated that he was loving an expensive lifestyle,
nightclubs,
restaurants,
living beyond the means...
of the ordinary Egyptians.
Nasser shunted them back to Cairo.
Ashraf felt that he was handcuffed with Nasser.
Immediately after the Six-Day War of '67...
the issue of a possible war down the road with Egypt...
was the number one priority of the Mossad.
Every country, every government
has to deal with the intentions
of our enemies, and the more you know about it,
the better you can prevent a war.
So, military intelligence for the Mossad was very, very important.
The Mossad is responsible for...
collection and special operations.
This is not the CIA. CIA deals with all the world.
He has agent in South America, in Africa,
maybe in the Northern Pole, I don't know.
Ev-- All around the world. Here, in Israel, it is focused.
The arch enemies.
Can you describe for me your job, your role,
when you were working in the field?
No, I prefer not.
So, '67, at that moment, we started to look for intelligence
that would either support, or...
or the opposite, the issue of war down the road with Egypt.
Did you have any concerns about the possible implications
of unmasking a spy?
What did your wife have to say about all this?
The big bosses under the Nasser regime...
they were...
unsatisfied with Sadat.
There was a kind of rebellion...
...and...
Something personal? Or of a public nature?
The truth is in the court's hands.
And Sadat rewarded him. He appointed Ashraf to be...
the secretary of the Presidential Office.
At the time, he was not 30 yet,
and that is the youngest man in the job ever.
But knowing Ashraf Marwan, every step is calculated
to build for what comes after.
Ronnie Bregman, he wanted to make sure
that he has the right name.
but I told him, "Ronnie,
I don't know the name, but if I knew it I would not tell you."
"I don't know the name," "Don't make me..."
This was how it was done.
And Ronnie said...
"I know the name of the super spy."
And I said, "Good for you," and he said...
I was taken aback.
As far as I remember, I did not acknowledge it.
How do you say the English saying?
That butter would not melt in my mouth.
Butter very much melts in my mouth.
So, uh, when he approached me with the name...
it was some kind of an acknowledgement.
Okay, so how did the Mossad get involved with Ashraf Marwan?
I was the head of Mossad in Europe.
Somebody called.
As soon as I heard the name, it immediately rang a bell,
but I said, "No, it cannot be
that someone like him would come to us.”
When recruiting a new agent,
what are the risks to you, to the Mossad?
To the Mossad, first that he might be a double agent.
Number two, he's a liar.
And number three is that he can surrender you,
which is very dangerous.
But being an intelligence officer, if you are not...
suspicious as part of your culture and character,
you stand a fair chance not to be a successful intelligence officer.
And in the case of walk-ins,
it is even more important to be suspicious.
It was a gamble,
because the difference in cases like these...
is between receiving the Medal of Honor or facing disgrace.
So, we improvised...
against the official protocol.
And we scheduled the meeting at the hotel that same day.
The conversation was short.
He gave us authentic minutes from meetings in Moscow...
with the most high-ranking Russian officials
and the most high-ranking Egyptian officials.
To be a fly on the wall in these kinds of meetings
is the dream of any intelligence agent.
My task was to go over the material he provided,
and we couldn't find anything
which gave us any doubt about his credibility.
Okay, so what exactly did you do to be certain?
Listen, there's no point to...
to... get into all the details, but...
there was no one,
or no one case, where anybody said, explicitly,
in a very determined way, that he was not authentic.
Why would Marwan, now that Nasser was gone,
and his ambition was being fulfilled, he was the right-hand man
-of the president... -Yeah.
Why would he want to sell secrets to Israel?
Everything the Israelis say
suggests it was resentment towards Nasser,
hubris, money... And that doesn't add up to me.
You have to look at the Ashraf Marwan angle.
"I am a big shot."
How did Marwan spying for you work exactly?
He accompanied Sadat...
to meetings with leaders.
He listened and was able to give us the inside information.
What was so valuable about the information he gave you?
It is very rare material.
It was, in my opinion, an earthquake.
It was...
beautiful.
Beautiful. Really.
Ronnie, I've spoken to the Mossad
and what they are telling me is pretty compelling.
Okay for sound?
Ready?
Ashraf Marwan, I believe that he served Egypt well.
He did it under instructions from Sadat,
he did not do it out of his own free will.
Albeit, he was prepared to play the dangerous game.
It was a holistic movement within the country,
everyone coming together for one objective,
launching a war, regaining the Sinai, revitalizing the Arab world,
and creating a new spirit for the future.
But knowing that the Israelis had
weapons from the United States and western countries,
it had to have some cunning in the plan.
And Sadat has played this in the most perfect way.
Sadat wanted a very convincing agent
to feed information to the Israelis.
Ashraf Marwan was the best actor to play the part.
Everything was, like, stage-managed to the highest possible standard.
They studied very well the Israeli mentality
to create the image to fool the Israelis.
And he did not go to them on his knees.
He went to them full of himself.
The Ashraf Marwan angle...
a playboy, fun-loving with a sense of pride.
"I am a big shot."
And he was very successful in convincing them
that he is serious about working for them.
Ashraf Marwan supplied the Israelis with the Egyptian preparations for the war,
but not complete,
but the Israelis were very happy with what he gave them.
So, he was accepted.
The information we got
comes along once in a hundred years.
And they call him the-- "the agent of the century."
All under instructions from Sadat.
There's this double agent theory
and I would like your opinion.
No other country in the world
would allow this kind of material to fall into the hands of their enemies.
He's a traitor.
He's just a simple traitor.
That's it.
How did the information Marwan gave you
influence your thinking?
Marwan, he reported one of the conditions for going to war...
was long-range bombers.
And the Russians, they hesitated to provide
the Egyptians deep bombing capabilities.
So, the Israeli evaluators of the intelligence
were in the notion that they are not going to fight us.
On the 6th of October, 1973,
the Egyptian units on the ground were told, "Now!"
Igniting their spirit and mind and a will to win.
The synagogue was full of people all around here.
We started seeing traffic on the streets.
The army came.
People were simply taken onto the army vehicles.
I can tell you, it was all chaos.
They took five kilometers of Sinai,
and they dug in,
and they rebuffed everything.
And actually, our defense minister, Dayan,
came out on television and talked to the nation,
and explained to us that the situation is bad indeed.
The war is difficult.
Very harsh collisions, on the ground and in the sky.
And we are fighting for our lives.
When the war was over...
...the Egyptian people were extremely happy.
Can I tell you something which not many people know?
During the 1973 war days,
the rate of crime dwindled to zero.
There was no crime.
No offence at all, everyone... united with everyone.
The one goal they had was
to regain their sense of pride and dignity.
Ashraf Marwan...
...he enabled Egypt to gain the surprise advantage.
The Egyptians are adamant they got the jump on you in '73,
because Ashraf Marwan misled you.
But it's just the opposite, he didn't-- they didn't surprise us.
They gave us an early alert.
Before the war...
Ashraf Marwan,
he asked for a meeting,
gave the code word: "chemicals."
And he told him, "Tomorrow, I'll be in London.
I want Zvika Zamir,
the director of the Mossad, to come."
The meeting took place at about ten o'clock p.m.
Zvika sat scribbling the essence of the story.
Zvika,
he sent the early warning to his personal assistant.
It was disseminated to the...
...director of Military Intelligence.
We could prepare ourselves...
for the attack.
Ashraf, he gave the plan!
Wait a second...
Ashraf said the war would start at sunset, and yet the surprise attack was at two...
Wasn't that misleading?
I'll answer it!
See, I saw the full report.
The Syrians,
they wanted the attack to be in the morning.
On October the 2nd, the Egyptian minister of war
reached a compromise.
"Okay...
not sunset,
ten minutes to two o'clock, afternoon."
Marwan, he didn't know about the change.
Because he was not in Egypt. He went on a mission.
-Well, he's wrong! -Tell me what you really...
Tell me what you really think!
The impact of the surprise was, for me,
a thing that haunts me to this day.
Certainly, I have anger.
If we have someone like Marwan,
who told us and warned us a day before to prepare the army,
our intelligence really fucked up.
Of course, I'm angry. Very much so.
After the war,
there was an inquiry committee
for the failure of the military intelligence.
It was the responsibility
of the head of the Military Intelligence,
General Zeira, to give the alert, and he did not.
Eli Zeira, when he was asked,
"Why you didn't do anything
with such tremendous early warning?"
he say, "I didn't want to bother the chief of staff, he was busy."
The inquiry committee,
they concluded Eli Zeira...
...bore the main responsibility for the failure in the war.
Eli Zeira was ousted from active service.
And he left the country. He went with his family to the US.
About 13 years after the war, Eli published his book.
He came to the conclusion that Marwan
was a double agent and his real employers were the Egyptians and not the Israelis.
Eli Zeira,
he want to find a scapegoat.
All the stories about the double agent,
it stems from Eli Zeira.
He want to justify himself.
I am furious about him.
What can I do?
What do you want to prove?
I'll, uh-- I'll, uh-- I'll throw it away.
Can you stop here? I'll tell you...
off...
Let's open up another chapter of this conversation
that will be published.
Ashraf Marwan, Dr Ashraf Marwan...
-You think he's a double agent. -Yes.
But everyone who checked up on the issue says there is no chance in hell!
They say he was not a double agent, he was our agent.
Regarding Marwan, he gave us excellent information,
right up until the time of war, then he fucked us over.
An interview with Commander Eli Zeira here on this show about the Yom Kippur War
made an earthquake in the intelligence community.
Head of the Mossad, Zvi Zamir, answers back.
He, Eli Zeira, is censoring information!
He releases information that reflects,
you know what, his sick state of mind!
Hello, hi.
Hello. About your book, if you could call me back...
on my mobile. Thank you.
Please. Hello, can you call me?
It's about your book. Thank you.
Please.
Hello, can you call me? It's about your book.
Thank you.
Hello, hi, good afternoon.
If you could call me, I'm the subject of your book.
Thank you.
This is one of the rare events where people pay with their lives.
He paid with his life,
and he didn't deserve it.
Eli had a clique of journalists surrounding him.
And among them, one historian.
If you ask me, and I'm not just saying this,
these people are disgusting.
Why?
Because these people distort the truth.
Yeah, the funeral.
They asked me, "Okay, he got such an Egypt funeral.
With all the leadership coming with black suits.
His widow stand there. All the high echelon passed by her,
kissing her or whispering..."
They asked me, "How could it be that this is a traitor?"
I watched many mafia movies.
When the mafia killed one of their members,
all the dons are passing by the widow, whispering,
"We will give you money," "We will give you money."
The funeral of Ashraf Marwan...
reminds me the same.
Madame Mona, what was the hardest moment in your life?
Two moments...
...the death of my father and my mother,
and the loss of Ashraf.
But at the end of the day, as his wife, I lost him,
but at the same time, I feel grateful
that I could be with him for 30 years.
So if he was in touch with Israel,
then it was out of orders from the Egyptian side?
This is not even to be questioned;
I am not going to defend something that I don't need to.
This is something that I am sure of 100 percent,
not even just 100 percent...
Everyone fought in his or her way.
Double is very hard to believe.
In my opinion, he was ours.
The fact that he is not ready to...
face the real story and to...
to have the courage and the guts to say, "I was mistaken,"
it's his problem with his conscience.
Unmasking the name of a human source,
it's a sin.
"Go to hell, bastard!"
Really. "Go to hell, bastard!"
"How dare you?"
Because you don't put in danger a human being
because you want to be famous.