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WL[oޘkS*p'ܠZ?@mAߵչh4$:ѠqSGlQSH]ӠsR% H1[. wŧ79SV_Hq~:I~jq.tfNH@ m0b Aw{=I#Ic6bߧ*ߥSAlnXCՀmApM5hWU%KyY{Üc`8=cp}.yb)s5Oȑu>wOGyĂu[0bu oþBX$8sӥNӆ(ìܤS 1#'xalHLqy^/ 67J+[,$}Z7<}V;ڽR2ƔpAۍӴ͗ ct#$BsK㊠C]Z\0cȻaŋxue ܑU,b 8zlS#[ԣ@K2YgE vE|ݍWūhSZPT,8U':5(!*OM,l>-^YDZViJ:R<D8(W*)` _e' j7NCL&= j`N2I^^"o^6i&:n)mXUR/4cIS1A"Ky$;Iv7] 4A|JMw7&TjR>Il'HK 9Bὰy)Qk ? ]0RYsA54T%% LX4BXTT8~ n;` צqRsYPTFq  I didn't even know about the audition until afterwards. 600 00:29:18,006 --> 00:29:20,622 Do you like my nails? 601 00:29:20,676 --> 00:29:24,043 Schmader: Out of the blue, women just discussing their nails. 602 00:29:24,096 --> 00:29:28,135 It's almost like it's a cue they send each other of, like, 603 00:29:28,183 --> 00:29:31,846 "hello. You have nails. Now we can talk.” 604 00:29:31,895 --> 00:29:34,102 Not as nice as yours. 605 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:42,478 Maybe I'll help you with yours sometime. 606 00:29:42,531 --> 00:29:44,008 Schmader: Seems like maybe he was, like, 607 00:29:44,032 --> 00:29:45,363 met one dancer and was like, 608 00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:46,636 "what's the life of a dancer like?" 609 00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:47,945 And this one dancer said, 610 00:29:47,995 --> 00:29:49,485 "well, I went to some classes, 611 00:29:49,538 --> 00:29:51,307 and I ate a lot of brown rice and vegetables." 612 00:29:51,331 --> 00:29:52,867 What kind of classes have you had? 613 00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:54,747 Schmader: And that becomes a code for him. 614 00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:57,125 You do eat brown rice and vegetables, don't you? 615 00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:58,410 Sure. 616 00:29:58,463 --> 00:29:59,999 Jack. Jack: Yeah. 617 00:30:00,048 --> 00:30:02,084 - What do you want? - Um, burger, fries, and soda. 618 00:30:02,134 --> 00:30:03,795 Get her some brown rice, vegetables, 619 00:30:03,844 --> 00:30:04,924 and a bottle of evian. 620 00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:08,087 Uh-oh! Look what I found. 621 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:10,301 Schmader: The chips, I think, was to show 622 00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:12,056 that nomi was a wild stallion 623 00:30:12,102 --> 00:30:15,060 who wouldn't just eat brown rice and vegetables. 624 00:30:15,105 --> 00:30:17,187 She's gonna eat a burger on the hood of a car. 625 00:30:17,232 --> 00:30:20,065 J listen to the drummer, come and listen to the bass j 626 00:30:20,110 --> 00:30:23,523 you like that burger? Uh-huh! 627 00:30:23,572 --> 00:30:25,688 Where you from? 628 00:30:25,741 --> 00:30:27,777 Different places. 629 00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:30,700 Schmader: A major motif also 630 00:30:30,746 --> 00:30:32,611 is the baffling charisma of nomi Malone, 631 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:35,451 because no one who crosses her path can resist falling in love 632 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,866 and immediately placing her at the center of their lives. 633 00:30:37,919 --> 00:30:40,752 You can stay with me if you need a place to crash. 634 00:30:40,797 --> 00:30:43,379 It's not much. 635 00:30:43,425 --> 00:30:45,040 Until you get a job? 636 00:30:45,093 --> 00:30:46,696 Schmader: Also this movie has some race problems 637 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,085 where black people exist 638 00:30:48,138 --> 00:30:49,594 only to help nomi achieve her dreams. 639 00:30:49,639 --> 00:30:51,721 Hey! 640 00:30:51,767 --> 00:30:54,383 Schmader: They're only there to love and worship 641 00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:57,018 and believe in nomi in ways she cannot believe in herself. 642 00:30:57,064 --> 00:30:59,430 James: Just listen. 643 00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:03,266 You got more natural talent when you dance 644 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,561 than anybody I've ever seen. 645 00:31:05,614 --> 00:31:08,356 Schmader: Another big one is it's not enough to be naked. 646 00:31:08,408 --> 00:31:10,069 You have to talk about being naked 647 00:31:10,118 --> 00:31:12,221 while you're naked to remind people that you're naked. 648 00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:15,453 Nomi, do my boobs look any bigger to you? 649 00:31:15,499 --> 00:31:16,989 Woman: Come on, baby! 650 00:31:17,042 --> 00:31:19,408 Schmader: This kind of really klutzy, 651 00:31:19,461 --> 00:31:21,577 not much interest in actual humanity, 652 00:31:21,630 --> 00:31:24,997 just this kind of sex cartoon that he wanted to write. 653 00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:27,211 I'm on my period. 654 00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:30,252 Yeah, right. Check. 655 00:31:30,305 --> 00:31:33,593 Schmader: It really seems like it was written by a 13-year-old 656 00:31:33,642 --> 00:31:35,883 imagining what adults do at night. 657 00:31:35,936 --> 00:31:37,472 See? 658 00:31:40,315 --> 00:31:44,809 Mlotek: Gender and sexism as it relates to the film itself 659 00:31:44,861 --> 00:31:47,728 matters both in the subject matter and the way it was made. 660 00:31:47,781 --> 00:31:50,318 Like, Paul verhoeven has established himself 661 00:31:50,367 --> 00:31:53,234 as a director who does not respect his actresses 662 00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:54,651 or his female characters. 663 00:31:54,704 --> 00:31:58,242 Like, very famously he deceived Sharon stone 664 00:31:58,291 --> 00:32:00,998 into filming that famous scene that everybody loves 665 00:32:01,044 --> 00:32:02,500 because he knew better. 666 00:32:02,546 --> 00:32:05,208 Like, that's always his thing. He knows best. 667 00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:06,963 It's nice. 668 00:32:11,847 --> 00:32:16,967 The marking and the elements to penny and cristal. 669 00:32:17,018 --> 00:32:20,306 Mlotek: If the person on set 670 00:32:20,355 --> 00:32:24,098 who has structurally the most power in every sense of the word 671 00:32:24,151 --> 00:32:26,563 in that he is the director of the film, what he says goes, 672 00:32:26,611 --> 00:32:29,148 and also he is, like, a white, straight man 673 00:32:29,197 --> 00:32:31,233 who has established himself as a moneymaker 674 00:32:31,283 --> 00:32:33,990 in an extremely powerful industry, 675 00:32:34,035 --> 00:32:36,526 and so he is just going to force a woman 676 00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:39,162 to do what he wants to do whether she likes it or not, 677 00:32:39,207 --> 00:32:42,449 that is misogyny replicating itself. 678 00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:44,647 Verhoeven: When you come up, go to right there somewhere, yeah? 679 00:32:44,671 --> 00:32:45,956 Yeah. 680 00:32:46,006 --> 00:32:47,746 And then just straight to the pole. 681 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,380 Verhoeven: Right. 682 00:32:50,552 --> 00:32:52,463 And I love nudity. I think it's great. 683 00:32:52,512 --> 00:32:55,549 Male or female, I think it looks beautiful. 684 00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:59,308 The female body, for me, is great and is attractive. 685 00:32:59,352 --> 00:33:01,013 It's sexual. It's beautiful. 686 00:33:01,062 --> 00:33:03,018 This aesthetic is everything. 687 00:33:03,064 --> 00:33:04,824 Shulgasser-Parker: Women are striving to have 688 00:33:04,858 --> 00:33:06,894 real impact in society... 689 00:33:09,070 --> 00:33:12,858 To get to the supreme court, to be president, 690 00:33:12,908 --> 00:33:17,151 to run corporations that make policies that affect all of us. 691 00:33:17,204 --> 00:33:20,367 Those are important goals. 692 00:33:20,415 --> 00:33:22,121 Moss: I don't care whether you live or die. 693 00:33:22,167 --> 00:33:25,034 I want to see you dance, and I want to see you smile. 694 00:33:25,086 --> 00:33:26,997 Shulgasser-Parker: To present us with a striver 695 00:33:27,047 --> 00:33:30,835 whose biggest goal is to dance, you know, a striptease... 696 00:33:30,884 --> 00:33:32,840 Slap it on one. 697 00:33:32,886 --> 00:33:37,004 Shulgasser-Parker: It's so oblivious to what is important 698 00:33:37,057 --> 00:33:40,094 to, "a," society, and, "b,"” women 699 00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:42,179 that it's laughable. 700 00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:44,185 Gay: Slam it! Bah-bah! 701 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:47,960 Woman: What a contrast between "saved by the bell" 702 00:33:47,984 --> 00:33:49,599 and your new role. 703 00:33:49,653 --> 00:33:51,839 Yeah, it just seemed, you know, the natural progression. 704 00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:54,320 As an actress, I want to portray as many different characters, 705 00:33:54,366 --> 00:33:57,733 so, you know, it's just a really wonderful time 706 00:33:57,786 --> 00:34:00,118 to take risks and do new things. 707 00:34:01,581 --> 00:34:03,071 J when I wake up in the morning j» 708 00:34:03,124 --> 00:34:04,660 j and the alarm gives out a warning j 709 00:34:06,419 --> 00:34:09,035 mlotek: Because of my age, I grew up with Jessie spano 710 00:34:09,089 --> 00:34:10,454 on "saved by the bell." 711 00:34:10,507 --> 00:34:11,963 A beauty pageant? 712 00:34:12,008 --> 00:34:15,171 What a stupid, sexist waste of time! 713 00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:17,757 Mlotek: Yeah, I kind of dreamed of being someone 714 00:34:17,806 --> 00:34:20,969 who could take all my, like, burgeoning feminist principles 715 00:34:21,017 --> 00:34:22,632 and use them to scream 716 00:34:22,686 --> 00:34:25,052 at all the dumb boys in my class the way she did. 717 00:34:25,105 --> 00:34:27,221 This is sexist pigism of the worst kind. 718 00:34:27,274 --> 00:34:30,357 We were discussing the obvious benefits of a female president. 719 00:34:30,402 --> 00:34:31,858 She's long overdue. 720 00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:36,021 Yep, just like a woman. Always late. 721 00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:38,531 Mlotek: Jessie spano was somebody who was, like, 722 00:34:38,577 --> 00:34:40,283 as a character, very present in my mind, 723 00:34:40,328 --> 00:34:41,597 and as such I did always associate 724 00:34:41,621 --> 00:34:44,158 Elizabeth berkley with her. 725 00:34:44,207 --> 00:34:45,726 I think it would have been part of this, 726 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:48,662 like, great tradition of very young women 727 00:34:48,712 --> 00:34:51,078 knowing that the only way they were going to make the leap 728 00:34:51,131 --> 00:34:54,123 from child star to grown actress 729 00:34:54,175 --> 00:34:56,962 is to do something that is probably 730 00:34:57,012 --> 00:34:58,252 a bit more provocative... 731 00:34:58,305 --> 00:34:59,761 Hi. 732 00:34:59,806 --> 00:35:02,468 Mlotek: Than is necessary, 733 00:35:02,517 --> 00:35:05,350 I want to say, to, like, skip a step of maturity 734 00:35:05,395 --> 00:35:09,604 by going straight to, "I do sex all the time." 735 00:35:11,192 --> 00:35:12,602 Although I guess you could 736 00:35:12,652 --> 00:35:14,005 make the argument that on "saved by the bell" 737 00:35:14,029 --> 00:35:16,771 she was always argumentative and loud. 738 00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:19,905 Sometimes, to get elected, 739 00:35:19,951 --> 00:35:22,442 you have to do things you swore you never would. 740 00:35:22,495 --> 00:35:26,363 She was willing to say or do anything and was also a dancer, 741 00:35:26,416 --> 00:35:28,748 so it seemed maybe there was, like, a chance for a second 742 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:31,876 that she could have turned that into, 743 00:35:31,921 --> 00:35:34,412 I don't know, a way to make it a real career, 744 00:35:34,466 --> 00:35:37,708 but instead it's just become, like, a collection of scenes 745 00:35:37,761 --> 00:35:39,501 in which she's always, like, 746 00:35:39,554 --> 00:35:41,886 operating at this very high frequency of emotions. 747 00:35:42,766 --> 00:35:44,347 Bitch! 748 00:35:52,067 --> 00:35:55,400 Mlotek: I mean, nothing is fair in life, 749 00:35:55,445 --> 00:35:57,356 but it seems like that film 750 00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,085 was some sort of, like, definitive judgment 751 00:35:59,115 --> 00:36:01,857 on what her skills really were, 752 00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:04,743 when really I think now we're more willing to say 753 00:36:04,788 --> 00:36:07,530 that it was a greater indicator of Paul verhoeven's directing. 754 00:36:07,582 --> 00:36:10,665 In the middle of a fight, it was just like boom, boom, boom. 755 00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:12,496 Mlotek: But at the time it was just like, 756 00:36:12,545 --> 00:36:13,580 "ugh, she's too intense.” 757 00:36:13,630 --> 00:36:15,040 Like, "don't hire her." 758 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:17,331 J I'm afraid of the animals j 759 00:36:17,384 --> 00:36:18,590 oh! 760 00:36:18,635 --> 00:36:20,626 J I'm afraid of the world j 761 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,294 nomi! 762 00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:23,962 Hey, you! Hold her! 763 00:36:24,015 --> 00:36:25,159 What the fuck are you doing?! 764 00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:26,923 - She started it! - Fuck you! 765 00:36:26,976 --> 00:36:29,183 - Fuck you, asshole! - Party's over! 766 00:36:29,229 --> 00:36:32,346 Nayman: Elizabeth berkley's career had been that very odd, 767 00:36:32,399 --> 00:36:35,061 presentational laugh track, "saved by the bell" world 768 00:36:35,110 --> 00:36:38,773 which is such a distinct type of acting. 769 00:36:38,822 --> 00:36:41,313 There you have it, America. 770 00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:43,027 Judge for yourself. 771 00:36:43,076 --> 00:36:46,193 Nayman: To give a young actor, like, a role like nomi, 772 00:36:46,246 --> 00:36:49,079 it felt like a James Dean role or a young Robert De Niro role. 773 00:36:49,124 --> 00:36:50,739 It's a huge role. 774 00:36:50,792 --> 00:36:53,454 If it was done in a real movie, 775 00:36:53,503 --> 00:36:56,666 that would have been a star-making role. 776 00:36:56,715 --> 00:36:58,192 Berkley: I've been preparing for this role 777 00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:00,332 my whole life, basically, 778 00:37:00,385 --> 00:37:02,751 twelve years, two to three hours a day dancing. 779 00:37:02,804 --> 00:37:07,764 So I can't exist, like nomi, without dance in my life. 780 00:37:07,809 --> 00:37:12,052 I'm fortunate that I found something that gives me such joy 781 00:37:12,105 --> 00:37:13,958 and gives me such life, because I know a lot of people 782 00:37:13,982 --> 00:37:15,847 don't ever find that one thing. 783 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:18,391 So, what could be better? 784 00:37:19,904 --> 00:37:22,111 Nayman: It hurt her acting career. 785 00:37:22,157 --> 00:37:23,693 It kind of robbed this other 786 00:37:23,742 --> 00:37:25,323 great pleasure of her life from her. 787 00:37:25,368 --> 00:37:27,108 I really feel terrible for her. 788 00:37:27,162 --> 00:37:29,744 She got a great opportunity. She said yes. 789 00:37:29,789 --> 00:37:32,075 It was nothing but pain for her 790 00:37:32,125 --> 00:37:34,241 to even be reminded of "showgirls." 791 00:37:34,294 --> 00:37:38,333 Man: So, you got a name? 792 00:37:38,381 --> 00:37:39,791 Nomi. 793 00:37:39,841 --> 00:37:41,752 Molly: Hey! Nomi! 794 00:37:41,801 --> 00:37:43,166 I'm nomi Malone. 795 00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:47,257 Nayman: Well, I would be, you know, 796 00:37:47,307 --> 00:37:52,347 one of many critics to point out the pun in nomi, 797 00:37:52,395 --> 00:37:54,977 in that it's a polyvalent pun, you know? 798 00:37:55,023 --> 00:37:57,810 Woman: This is my friend nomi. She's a dancer, too. 799 00:37:57,859 --> 00:37:59,962 Nayman: Nomi meaning, "do you want to get to 'know me'?" 800 00:37:59,986 --> 00:38:03,444 Nomi meaning, “I have 'no me.' I have no self." 801 00:38:03,490 --> 00:38:07,483 Or, "no! Me!" You know, "I want to be first." 802 00:38:07,535 --> 00:38:09,992 Nomi: You don't know anything about me. 803 00:38:10,038 --> 00:38:12,120 Nayman: I'm not sure Joe eszterhas really sat down 804 00:38:12,165 --> 00:38:16,329 and mapped that out, but it works, and I think that, 805 00:38:16,377 --> 00:38:20,370 you know, the idea that nomi is a stage name for someone 806 00:38:20,423 --> 00:38:24,336 who is really a Polly Ann or a pollyanna... 807 00:38:24,385 --> 00:38:26,421 Polly Ann costello! 808 00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:28,928 Your father killed your mother then killed himself. 809 00:38:29,766 --> 00:38:31,597 See ya, pollyanna! 810 00:38:31,643 --> 00:38:33,871 Nayman: Pollyanna being someone who's a bit of a naif... 811 00:38:33,895 --> 00:38:35,431 One day, she looks like pollyanna. 812 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:36,765 Nayman: Someone who's naive, 813 00:38:36,815 --> 00:38:38,334 doesn't know what she's getting into... 814 00:38:38,358 --> 00:38:39,598 Nice dress. 815 00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:42,643 Thanks. I bought it at "versayce." 816 00:38:43,696 --> 00:38:46,278 Nayman: I mean, that's sort of nomi's narrative, you know? 817 00:38:46,324 --> 00:38:50,363 Polly Ann costello becomes nomi Malone. 818 00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:56,323 Sconce: There's a famous article by Jack Smith, 819 00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:59,709 the director and film critic. 820 00:38:59,754 --> 00:39:05,545 He has a great essay he wrote about a 1944 universal b film 821 00:39:05,593 --> 00:39:07,299 called "cobra woman." 822 00:39:08,388 --> 00:39:13,007 He talks about Maria montez, who was a stock player at universal. 823 00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:16,426 She was usually brought in to play vaguely ethnic roles. 824 00:39:16,479 --> 00:39:19,846 He makes a very passionate argument about how 825 00:39:19,899 --> 00:39:22,106 it is the single greatest performance 826 00:39:22,151 --> 00:39:24,062 in the history of cinema. 827 00:39:24,112 --> 00:39:26,819 - Who are you? - I am your sister. 828 00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:31,236 Sconce: He's not being ironic. 829 00:39:31,286 --> 00:39:32,571 He's not being sarcastic. 830 00:39:32,620 --> 00:39:34,611 King cobra! 831 00:39:34,664 --> 00:39:37,997 Sconce: He loves it because in this moment, 832 00:39:38,042 --> 00:39:40,749 when she's playing the queen of the cobras, 833 00:39:40,795 --> 00:39:46,586 she's so into it that it just takes it to a whole other level. 834 00:39:51,556 --> 00:39:53,137 Emcee: Ladies and gentlemen, 835 00:39:53,182 --> 00:39:58,722 the stardust proudly presents miss nomi Malone. 836 00:40:01,733 --> 00:40:03,519 Sconce: And in many respects, 837 00:40:03,568 --> 00:40:08,312 Elizabeth berkley's performance in that film is that way for me. 838 00:40:08,364 --> 00:40:10,946 You know, she is the center of it, 839 00:40:10,992 --> 00:40:12,528 and it really sort of depends on her 840 00:40:12,577 --> 00:40:16,411 maintaining this kind of hysterical energy 841 00:40:16,456 --> 00:40:20,415 all the way through from the first minute to the last minute. 842 00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:23,564 Just makes you think about a whole other kind of acting 843 00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:25,795 that we just don't get in the cinema anymore. 844 00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:35,130 Emcee: "Midnight mass" proud to present miss peaches Christ. 845 00:40:35,183 --> 00:40:37,799 Peaches Christ: You don't get much better of a climax 846 00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:39,968 than exploding out of a volcano, right, 847 00:40:40,021 --> 00:40:43,263 so that's pretty much how our shows always open. 848 00:40:43,316 --> 00:40:45,773 Sometimes I come out of the volcano, and I'm cristal. 849 00:40:45,818 --> 00:40:47,683 Sometimes I come out, and I'm nomi. 850 00:40:47,737 --> 00:40:49,318 It just depends. 851 00:40:49,364 --> 00:40:53,607 There's always someone younger and hungrier 852 00:40:53,660 --> 00:40:56,447 coming down the stairs after you. 853 00:40:57,997 --> 00:41:00,454 And then there's some sort of centerpiece 854 00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,786 that has varied over the years, 855 00:41:02,835 --> 00:41:05,872 and through the years having done the show so much, 856 00:41:05,922 --> 00:41:10,962 that center scene probably has changed enough times 857 00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:12,546 that we've done the whole movie. 858 00:41:12,595 --> 00:41:15,211 We both want to ride the "ma-nomi pony" 859 00:41:15,264 --> 00:41:17,220 in a private dance room. 860 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:19,973 How much is it, darling? A dollar? 861 00:41:20,019 --> 00:41:21,725 It's just perfection. 862 00:41:21,771 --> 00:41:24,854 - Nope, sorry. - Okay. 863 00:41:24,899 --> 00:41:27,515 Uh, why don't you just make Zack here come in his pants 864 00:41:27,568 --> 00:41:30,605 while I grind my pussy on this filthy chair? 865 00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:36,616 You either get it, or you don't, but for those of us that get it, 866 00:41:36,661 --> 00:41:38,777 it can become our religion. 867 00:41:45,461 --> 00:41:47,247 Well, after I moved to San Francisco, 868 00:41:47,296 --> 00:41:51,209 I began performing at a local drag nightclub 869 00:41:51,259 --> 00:41:54,843 called trannyshack that was brand-new here in San Francisco, 870 00:41:54,887 --> 00:41:56,673 and after a few years of performing, 871 00:41:56,723 --> 00:42:00,557 we decided to create this other show called "midnight mass," 872 00:42:00,601 --> 00:42:05,015 which was going to celebrate my love for midnight movies. 873 00:42:05,064 --> 00:42:06,850 And so, at the time, 874 00:42:06,899 --> 00:42:10,562 landmark theatres had some midnight-movie programs, 875 00:42:10,611 --> 00:42:14,354 and the programming was kind of what you would describe 876 00:42:14,407 --> 00:42:16,898 as classically midnight, 877 00:42:16,951 --> 00:42:19,442 college fare like "taxi driver"... 878 00:42:19,495 --> 00:42:21,406 You got to be kidding. 879 00:42:21,456 --> 00:42:24,323 - What? - This is a dirty movie. 880 00:42:24,375 --> 00:42:26,081 Peaches Christ: "A clockwork orange"... 881 00:42:26,127 --> 00:42:29,039 Stop it! Stop it! Please, I beg you! 882 00:42:29,088 --> 00:42:31,204 Peaches Christ: Maybe a John waters film 883 00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:32,542 if you were really lucky. 884 00:42:32,592 --> 00:42:34,253 And the next package you bring me 885 00:42:34,302 --> 00:42:36,042 is getting shoved right up your little ass. 886 00:42:36,095 --> 00:42:37,631 Can you comprehend that? 887 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,324 Peaches Christ: And so when I came back and said, 888 00:42:39,348 --> 00:42:41,885 "I'd like to book this film, 'showgirls, 889 00:42:41,934 --> 00:42:45,802 I remember the booker saying, "that movie with Demi Moore?" 890 00:42:48,483 --> 00:42:49,848 And I was like, "no." 891 00:42:49,901 --> 00:42:50,981 Girl: Mama! 892 00:42:52,487 --> 00:42:54,227 Baby. Oh! 893 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,816 Peaches Christ: "No! 894 00:42:55,865 --> 00:42:58,072 That is striptease, ' 895 00:42:58,117 --> 00:43:00,403 and I have no interest in 'striptease.' 896 00:43:00,453 --> 00:43:03,866 did you guys like our freak show? 897 00:43:03,915 --> 00:43:06,497 We've had to get really experimental 898 00:43:06,542 --> 00:43:08,874 after doing 19 shows. 899 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,127 All right, ladies and gentlemen. 900 00:43:11,172 --> 00:43:13,834 And then we, you know, tear down that fourth wall, 901 00:43:13,883 --> 00:43:16,169 which really was never there to begin with 902 00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:18,380 and introduce our lap dancers. 903 00:43:18,429 --> 00:43:22,388 Let's see your large popcorns. Hold them up high. 904 00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:26,597 We advertised free lap dances with every large popcorn. 905 00:43:26,646 --> 00:43:29,388 Here we go! Lap dancing! 906 00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:35,899 And they were, like, filthy, disgusting, boogery, 907 00:43:35,947 --> 00:43:38,689 horrifying drag queens. 908 00:43:38,741 --> 00:43:40,402 In San Francisco, a drag queen can be... 909 00:43:40,451 --> 00:43:44,490 Really anyone can do drag... Men, women, whatever. 910 00:43:47,458 --> 00:43:50,370 They come up, and they have shit on their panties. 911 00:43:51,879 --> 00:43:53,585 My prerequisite was that 912 00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:56,714 you should frighten the audience, you know? 913 00:44:05,601 --> 00:44:07,057 Whuh! 914 00:44:07,103 --> 00:44:08,639 Ha ha! 915 00:44:08,688 --> 00:44:11,054 Peaches Christ: I think it definitely fits into 916 00:44:11,107 --> 00:44:14,224 the classic tropes that go along with 917 00:44:14,277 --> 00:44:16,017 something that becomes a cult movie. 918 00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:17,185 Pull your dress up! 919 00:44:17,238 --> 00:44:19,445 Honey, you could never handle me 920 00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:20,900 with all these wrinkles of fat. 921 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:22,440 Ohh! Ohh! 922 00:44:22,493 --> 00:44:24,279 Why, you'd never even find the thing. 923 00:44:25,746 --> 00:44:27,224 Peaches Christ: It was misunderstood... 924 00:44:27,248 --> 00:44:30,365 I'd have to piss on you to give you a clue. 925 00:44:30,418 --> 00:44:33,080 Peaches Christ: When it came out. 926 00:44:33,129 --> 00:44:37,623 I think often films like "the rocky horror picture show," 927 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,462 "showgirls," "mommie dearest," 928 00:44:40,511 --> 00:44:45,050 they tend to go too far for a mainstream audience. 929 00:44:45,099 --> 00:44:47,306 Why are you doing that?! Tell me! 930 00:44:47,351 --> 00:44:49,182 You sit still now! 931 00:44:49,228 --> 00:44:51,123 Peaches Christ: And so it takes a little bit longer 932 00:44:51,147 --> 00:44:53,763 for the cult to kind of, 933 00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:56,603 to build and find it and say, "hey, you know what? 934 00:44:56,652 --> 00:44:59,644 Like, we love Faye dunaway's performance 935 00:44:59,697 --> 00:45:00,903 in "mommie dearest." 936 00:45:00,948 --> 00:45:02,438 You expect me to ignore my fans? 937 00:45:02,491 --> 00:45:05,403 They're life and death to me, baby. 938 00:45:05,453 --> 00:45:07,556 Peaches Christ: Not only does it have tremendous value, 939 00:45:07,580 --> 00:45:11,573 I want to watch this thing over and over and over again, 940 00:45:11,626 --> 00:45:14,368 and I want to memorize all of the lines. 941 00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:19,756 No wire hangers! 942 00:45:21,093 --> 00:45:25,382 What's wire hangers doing in this closet when I told you 943 00:45:25,431 --> 00:45:30,892 - no wire hangers ever?! - Crowd: No wire hangers ever?! 944 00:45:30,937 --> 00:45:33,053 Peaches Christ: So somehow you can take 945 00:45:33,105 --> 00:45:34,845 a great, you know, a movie like that 946 00:45:34,899 --> 00:45:37,936 and then say, "no, this isn't for you. 947 00:45:37,985 --> 00:45:39,566 This is for us." 948 00:45:41,822 --> 00:45:44,859 It's really Elizabeth that audiences over the years 949 00:45:44,909 --> 00:45:48,447 have shown up again and again to watch repeatedly 950 00:45:48,496 --> 00:45:50,532 because it's such an extraordinary 951 00:45:50,581 --> 00:45:52,242 and bizarre performance. 952 00:45:52,291 --> 00:45:53,827 Woman: Excuse me. 953 00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:55,771 - Wait, you cannot go in there! - What's going on? 954 00:45:55,795 --> 00:45:57,439 What the fuck do you mean, "what's going on?" 955 00:45:57,463 --> 00:46:00,170 So there I was dancing butt naked for five minutes. 956 00:46:00,216 --> 00:46:02,207 Peaches Christ: Gina gershon is brilliant. 957 00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:04,876 She says that she played the film as a drag queen 958 00:46:04,929 --> 00:46:07,796 and kind of understood or knew... 959 00:46:07,848 --> 00:46:10,180 You think you could do my nails now? 960 00:46:10,226 --> 00:46:13,138 Conway: She just has a bit of a flair of knowing 961 00:46:13,187 --> 00:46:15,894 that she's in a stylish piece of garbage. 962 00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:18,647 Gershon: If you know that myth at all, and it's, you know, 963 00:46:18,693 --> 00:46:22,732 "here's Aphrodite, the big, you know, queen-bee goddess," 964 00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:25,317 and all of a sudden, some little, you know, 965 00:46:25,366 --> 00:46:27,732 chick comes along who wants to be, 966 00:46:27,785 --> 00:46:29,571 you know, a goddess, or everyone is, like, 967 00:46:29,620 --> 00:46:33,454 saying that's what she is, and she says, "well, okay, honey," 968 00:46:33,499 --> 00:46:35,080 you know, "I'll make you a goddess 969 00:46:35,126 --> 00:46:36,582 if you pass a couple of tests... 970 00:46:36,627 --> 00:46:38,538 Which I know, by the way, you won't," 971 00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:40,440 and she gives her these tests, "pass these tests," 972 00:46:40,464 --> 00:46:42,295 and she keeps passing them, passing them, 973 00:46:42,341 --> 00:46:45,629 and basically at the end of it, you know, she's made immortal. 974 00:46:45,678 --> 00:46:50,012 Conway: I would say two minutes into it, I just, like, 975 00:46:50,057 --> 00:46:52,844 my blood started to pulse through my body, 976 00:46:52,893 --> 00:46:56,351 and I got so excited because, 1 don't know. 977 00:46:56,397 --> 00:46:59,184 There's just something that just screams "bad" 978 00:46:59,233 --> 00:47:01,064 the moment you see nomi's face, 979 00:47:01,110 --> 00:47:03,943 and she kind of licks her lips a little bit on the highway, 980 00:47:03,988 --> 00:47:07,901 and I was literally jumping up and down on the bed. 981 00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:11,158 The trilogy of camp was complete... 982 00:47:11,203 --> 00:47:16,197 The trilogy being the 1967 film "valley of the dolls"... 983 00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:17,786 I wouldn't pay any attention to that. 984 00:47:17,835 --> 00:47:19,871 You know how bitchy fags can be. 985 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,708 Conway: The film "mommie dearest," 986 00:47:23,758 --> 00:47:25,965 and now this beautiful "showgirls." 987 00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:31,255 It felt like it was part of that same genre, 988 00:47:31,307 --> 00:47:33,719 meaning sort of these female characters 989 00:47:33,768 --> 00:47:36,976 who climb their way towards the top. 990 00:47:50,242 --> 00:47:54,235 But all three of them are just so impossibly bad 991 00:47:54,288 --> 00:47:57,655 and so thrilling at the same time. 992 00:48:02,296 --> 00:48:03,957 Woman: Who the hell are you? 993 00:48:05,925 --> 00:48:07,461 Oh! 994 00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:11,423 Conway: There's this really hard-wrought seriousness 995 00:48:11,472 --> 00:48:15,010 the actors are trying to portray... 996 00:48:15,059 --> 00:48:19,598 Why can't you treat me like I would be treated 997 00:48:19,647 --> 00:48:23,731 by any stranger on the street? 998 00:48:23,776 --> 00:48:29,362 Because I am not one of your fans! 999 00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:34,358 Aaaah! 1000 00:48:34,412 --> 00:48:36,152 You never loved me! 1001 00:48:36,205 --> 00:48:37,516 Conway: That the films themselves, 1002 00:48:37,540 --> 00:48:39,451 the stories are trying to establish 1003 00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:43,459 that just so completely fail that make them hilarious 1004 00:48:43,504 --> 00:48:45,916 and sort of immortal. 1005 00:48:47,716 --> 00:48:48,751 Higher! 1006 00:48:48,801 --> 00:48:50,541 Not that high! 1007 00:48:52,138 --> 00:48:54,470 Stay in sync! 1008 00:48:54,515 --> 00:48:56,506 One, two, three, turn! 1009 00:48:56,559 --> 00:49:00,555 Thrust it! Thrust it! 1010 00:49:00,604 --> 00:49:02,094 Come on! Thrust it! 1011 00:49:02,148 --> 00:49:04,104 Bah! Okay. 1012 00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:06,687 That's enough. Thank you, ladies. 1013 00:49:06,735 --> 00:49:08,521 Conway: I just felt that, you know, 1014 00:49:08,571 --> 00:49:10,983 like a triple crown, it was done. 1015 00:49:11,031 --> 00:49:12,862 Civilization had done its job. 1016 00:49:14,368 --> 00:49:16,279 J one, two, three, bend j 1017 00:49:16,328 --> 00:49:18,535 j one, two, three, stretch j 1018 00:49:18,581 --> 00:49:20,446 Conway: It depends on probably your age 1019 00:49:20,499 --> 00:49:25,368 how much the biography of Elizabeth berkley, 1020 00:49:25,421 --> 00:49:28,879 like, impacts your experience of the film. 1021 00:49:28,924 --> 00:49:32,212 J strong whenever you're around j 1022 00:49:32,261 --> 00:49:36,800 j I walk on air, I barely touch the ground j 1023 00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:39,215 Conway: So for me, I had to buy 1024 00:49:39,268 --> 00:49:42,260 the "saved by the bell" series on DVD because I wanted... 1025 00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:44,850 I had read descriptions of the episode 1026 00:49:44,899 --> 00:49:47,265 where she gets addicted to the caffeine pills. 1027 00:49:47,318 --> 00:49:51,436 What really resonated for me was this notion that this character, 1028 00:49:51,489 --> 00:49:55,357 Jessie spano, was somehow morphing into Patty Duke... 1029 00:49:55,409 --> 00:49:58,822 Just one, and one more. 1030 00:49:58,871 --> 00:50:01,203 Conway: Playing neely O'Hara in "valley of the dolls," 1031 00:50:01,248 --> 00:50:05,036 who goes way over the top when she gets high on pills, 1032 00:50:05,085 --> 00:50:07,701 which in the movie they refer to as "dolls." 1033 00:50:07,755 --> 00:50:09,211 God! 1034 00:50:10,424 --> 00:50:13,507 I need a doll! 1035 00:50:13,552 --> 00:50:15,543 Don't leave me here! 1036 00:50:15,596 --> 00:50:16,836 Jessie, give me those! 1037 00:50:16,889 --> 00:50:18,220 I need them, Zack! I have to sing! 1038 00:50:18,265 --> 00:50:20,722 Jessie! You can't sing tonight. 1039 00:50:20,768 --> 00:50:21,848 Yes, I can! 1040 00:50:21,894 --> 00:50:26,808 J I'm so excited j 1041 00:50:26,857 --> 00:50:31,567 I'm so scared! 1042 00:50:31,612 --> 00:50:33,477 Conway: It was like these invisible threads 1043 00:50:33,531 --> 00:50:35,647 that started, like, stitching together 1044 00:50:35,699 --> 00:50:37,280 nomi in the movie 1045 00:50:37,326 --> 00:50:40,693 to Elizabeth berkley as Jessie spano 1046 00:50:40,746 --> 00:50:42,282 in this TV show, 1047 00:50:42,331 --> 00:50:48,076 neely O'Hara... Patty Duke... aka Judy garland. 1048 00:50:48,128 --> 00:50:49,459 They were all sort of morphing 1049 00:50:49,505 --> 00:50:54,920 into this supersonic generic character. 1050 00:50:58,973 --> 00:51:03,888 So after years of watching "showgirls" hundreds of times, 1051 00:51:03,936 --> 00:51:07,929 one night in my little studio apartment in New York, 1052 00:51:07,982 --> 00:51:11,725 I had just finished watching the film yet again, 1053 00:51:11,777 --> 00:51:13,187 and I thought to myself, 1054 00:51:13,237 --> 00:51:15,819 "am I just gonna watch this movie until I die?" 1055 00:51:15,864 --> 00:51:17,604 Something just came to me. 1056 00:51:17,658 --> 00:51:20,866 I should write a whole book of sestinas about "showgirls." 1057 00:51:20,911 --> 00:51:24,699 It's a love of the film and of course my love of poetry, 1058 00:51:24,748 --> 00:51:26,204 and I kind of put the two together, 1059 00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:29,037 and it started happening that very night. 1060 00:51:32,548 --> 00:51:35,665 You got me the audition, didn't you? 1061 00:51:35,718 --> 00:51:37,299 Cristal: Mm-hmm. 1062 00:51:37,344 --> 00:51:40,177 Nomi: Why? 1063 00:51:40,222 --> 00:51:43,430 Wloszcyna: I gave it 2 1/2 stars out of four, 1064 00:51:43,475 --> 00:51:46,137 and, you know, I was fine with that, 1065 00:51:46,186 --> 00:51:48,677 and I think some people were surprised. 1066 00:51:48,731 --> 00:51:52,315 But some of my, you know, coworkers who trusted my taste, 1067 00:51:52,359 --> 00:51:54,816 they actually went to see it based on my review, 1068 00:51:54,862 --> 00:51:57,478 and I think with the frame of reference 1069 00:51:57,531 --> 00:52:00,318 I had in my review of how to approach it 1070 00:52:00,367 --> 00:52:01,982 and the way to view it 1071 00:52:02,036 --> 00:52:06,200 that they understood what was going on here. 1072 00:52:06,248 --> 00:52:09,115 I hate you. 1073 00:52:09,168 --> 00:52:10,829 I know. 1074 00:52:15,758 --> 00:52:19,091 Wloszcyna: Well, I knew it was campy. 1075 00:52:19,136 --> 00:52:20,672 It was something else, 1076 00:52:20,721 --> 00:52:24,339 and it had this attitude that I kind of appreciated, 1077 00:52:24,391 --> 00:52:28,179 and so I took it from, you know, judging it... 1078 00:52:28,228 --> 00:52:29,889 "Was I entertained?” yes, 1079 00:52:29,938 --> 00:52:32,554 but not maybe in the way that some people, 1080 00:52:32,608 --> 00:52:35,190 especially men... 1081 00:52:35,235 --> 00:52:38,693 You know, most critics, as how, were males, 1082 00:52:38,739 --> 00:52:40,946 and maybe they didn't quite get it, 1083 00:52:40,991 --> 00:52:44,700 but to me one thing I like about Paul verhoeven's movies 1084 00:52:44,745 --> 00:52:46,406 is that he gets women. 1085 00:52:51,126 --> 00:52:54,414 He doesn't see them as being these fragile creatures 1086 00:52:54,463 --> 00:52:56,624 who need saving. 1087 00:52:56,674 --> 00:52:59,416 I got him, Clarence! I got him! 1088 00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:05,887 You want to walk down to spago, get something to eat? 1089 00:53:05,933 --> 00:53:08,891 - Where is it? - Just down from "versayce." 1090 00:53:08,936 --> 00:53:11,769 Schmader: The spago scene is, for a lot of us, 1091 00:53:11,814 --> 00:53:16,274 it's the crown Jewel of "showgirls," 1092 00:53:16,318 --> 00:53:18,855 and it's nomi and cristal going out for lunch. 1093 00:53:18,904 --> 00:53:20,519 They were supposed to have rehearsal, 1094 00:53:20,572 --> 00:53:22,759 but cristal is feeling a little turned inside out today, 1095 00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:25,946 so they're going to go to a schmancy lunch. 1096 00:53:25,994 --> 00:53:29,987 What I love about this scene is it seems like it was written 1097 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:35,410 by a brain-dead Harold pinter, where the subtext is stunning 1098 00:53:35,462 --> 00:53:37,874 until you realize there is no subtext. 1099 00:53:37,923 --> 00:53:40,130 Don't they have brown rice and vegetables? 1100 00:53:41,552 --> 00:53:43,588 Do you like brown rice and vegetables? 1101 00:53:43,637 --> 00:53:45,423 Yeah. 1102 00:53:45,472 --> 00:53:47,087 You do? 1103 00:53:48,267 --> 00:53:50,258 Sort of. 1104 00:53:50,310 --> 00:53:53,017 Schmader: This is "showgirls" golden moment. 1105 00:53:53,063 --> 00:53:54,928 It's worse than dog food. 1106 00:53:54,982 --> 00:53:57,394 «jt is. 1107 00:53:59,319 --> 00:54:02,061 I've had dog food. 1108 00:54:02,114 --> 00:54:05,732 Schmader: It's this surreal discussion of 1109 00:54:05,784 --> 00:54:08,446 the aforementioned brown-rice-and-vegetable diet 1110 00:54:08,495 --> 00:54:11,282 of the dancer, and it steers into both women 1111 00:54:11,331 --> 00:54:14,994 communing over their love of doggy chow, wistfully. 1112 00:54:15,043 --> 00:54:17,125 I used to love doggy chow. 1113 00:54:18,213 --> 00:54:20,750 I used to love doggy chow too. 1114 00:54:20,799 --> 00:54:22,585 Schmader: There's a moment where Gina gershon 1115 00:54:22,634 --> 00:54:25,216 looks into the distance, and her eyes kind of mist up, 1116 00:54:25,262 --> 00:54:27,423 and she talks about how she used to eat doggy chow 1117 00:54:27,473 --> 00:54:30,135 - a long time ago. - A long time ago. 1118 00:54:30,184 --> 00:54:31,411 What do you think of the richer flavor 1119 00:54:31,435 --> 00:54:33,426 we put into new purina dog chow? 1120 00:54:33,479 --> 00:54:34,998 Schmader: Like, what are they really talking about? 1121 00:54:35,022 --> 00:54:36,853 What are they talking about? 1122 00:54:36,899 --> 00:54:40,141 Dog: This is dog food's finest hour. 1123 00:54:40,194 --> 00:54:42,685 Schmader: They're talking about eating dog food. 1124 00:54:42,738 --> 00:54:46,322 And at the end of it, they toast with their chips, 1125 00:54:46,366 --> 00:54:49,779 bringing several "showgirls" motifs full circle. 1126 00:55:02,007 --> 00:55:03,007 Hey! 1127 00:55:12,392 --> 00:55:14,508 Nayman: So they're sitting down at the table, 1128 00:55:14,561 --> 00:55:16,347 and we're getting pretty conventional 1129 00:55:16,396 --> 00:55:17,681 shot/reverse-shot cutting. 1130 00:55:17,731 --> 00:55:20,313 I mean, any scene is put together this way. 1131 00:55:20,359 --> 00:55:24,978 Gina gershon is frame left, and berkley is frame right, 1132 00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:27,442 and it proceeds that way for a while 1133 00:55:27,491 --> 00:55:30,574 as they go through their absurd dialog. 1134 00:55:30,619 --> 00:55:32,655 I used to love doggy chow too. 1135 00:55:32,704 --> 00:55:37,038 Nayman: At a certain point after they pour this toast, 1136 00:55:37,084 --> 00:55:39,416 gershon is on the other side of the screen. 1137 00:55:42,005 --> 00:55:44,166 It's sort of a really interesting bit 1138 00:55:44,216 --> 00:55:45,797 of visual trickery by verhoeven 1139 00:55:45,843 --> 00:55:48,835 where he violates the 180-degree axis. 1140 00:55:48,887 --> 00:55:50,093 You have great tits. 1141 00:55:50,138 --> 00:55:51,574 Nayman: And now, even though they haven't 1142 00:55:51,598 --> 00:55:53,429 switched position in reality, 1143 00:55:53,475 --> 00:55:57,969 for the film, nomi is now suddenly on frame left. 1144 00:55:58,021 --> 00:55:59,431 Thank you. 1145 00:55:59,481 --> 00:56:01,893 Nayman: And it's a really interesting reversal 1146 00:56:01,942 --> 00:56:05,651 and the violation of basic screen continuity. 1147 00:56:05,696 --> 00:56:07,687 I like having nice tits. 1148 00:56:07,739 --> 00:56:11,106 You like to show 'em off. 1149 00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:13,346 Nayman: And it just sort of seems like a really eloquent, 1150 00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:15,110 and in this case sort of subtle 1151 00:56:15,163 --> 00:56:17,620 because we're all distracted by what they're talking about, 1152 00:56:17,666 --> 00:56:19,907 way to suggest visually 1153 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,793 that these women are somewhat equivalent. 1154 00:56:22,838 --> 00:56:24,578 Made me feel like a hooker. 1155 00:56:24,631 --> 00:56:26,542 You are a whore, darling. 1156 00:56:26,592 --> 00:56:27,923 No, I'm not. 1157 00:56:27,968 --> 00:56:29,708 We all are. 1158 00:56:29,761 --> 00:56:32,298 We take the cash. We cash the check. 1159 00:56:32,347 --> 00:56:34,508 We show them what they want to see. 1160 00:56:37,811 --> 00:56:40,427 Sconce: You never know what's going to become a cult film, 1161 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,186 and people are always saying, you know, 1162 00:56:42,232 --> 00:56:44,268 "maybe cult films will cease to exist 1163 00:56:44,318 --> 00:56:47,025 because that whole notion of camp and cult, 1164 00:56:47,070 --> 00:56:48,810 for so long, was based 1165 00:56:48,864 --> 00:56:51,071 on that old idea from Susan sontag 1166 00:56:51,116 --> 00:56:53,573 about failed seriousness. 1167 00:56:53,619 --> 00:56:55,530 Not the bees! Aah! 1168 00:56:55,579 --> 00:56:58,241 Sconce: A film can't know if it's camp to really be camp. 1169 00:56:58,290 --> 00:56:59,851 You know, I guess sort of the classic example 1170 00:56:59,875 --> 00:57:01,866 would be something like "plan 9 from outer space" 1171 00:57:01,919 --> 00:57:05,002 where, you know, it's so bad, it's good. 1172 00:57:05,047 --> 00:57:08,881 He's close enough! Turn off your electrode gun! No! 1173 00:57:08,926 --> 00:57:10,211 I can't get it! It's jammed! 1174 00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:11,466 Stop him, you fool! 1175 00:57:11,511 --> 00:57:13,467 Drop the gun to the floor, tanna! 1176 00:57:13,513 --> 00:57:14,719 The metal will break contact. 1177 00:57:17,643 --> 00:57:21,431 Sconce: The ones I'm less happy about are, you know, 1178 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,266 can you still have cult films in a era 1179 00:57:23,315 --> 00:57:26,478 where you have things like "sharknado," right? 1180 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,938 Where you kind of have this intentional camp aesthetic. 1181 00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:34,231 God bless America. 1182 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:38,530 Sconce: Camp is failed seriousness 1183 00:57:38,580 --> 00:57:41,162 except when it's, you know, performative camp 1184 00:57:41,208 --> 00:57:43,745 where they know that they're exaggerating. 1185 00:57:43,794 --> 00:57:46,206 The question of how intention relates to camp 1186 00:57:46,254 --> 00:57:48,290 is really complicated. 1187 00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:50,001 A sexual... sexual... 1188 00:57:50,050 --> 00:57:51,836 - Rhythmic and a very... - Modern jazz. 1189 00:57:51,885 --> 00:57:53,500 And a very edgy... poetic. 1190 00:57:53,553 --> 00:57:56,511 Edgy with very sharp movements and stuff like that. 1191 00:57:56,556 --> 00:58:00,799 So you're always using a whip, you know, so it's really sexy. 1192 00:58:04,481 --> 00:58:06,563 Sconce: What matters is what's there. 1193 00:58:06,608 --> 00:58:09,145 You can never really trust writers 1194 00:58:09,194 --> 00:58:10,730 or directors about their intent 1195 00:58:10,779 --> 00:58:12,394 because sometimes they don't even know 1196 00:58:12,447 --> 00:58:13,841 what they're trying to do, necessarily, 1197 00:58:13,865 --> 00:58:15,275 or things come out differently, 1198 00:58:15,325 --> 00:58:17,281 then they change their story. 1199 00:58:17,327 --> 00:58:20,114 Verhoeven: It's the first time that I did a musical. 1200 00:58:20,163 --> 00:58:23,747 When I was kid, when there were these American musicals 1201 00:58:23,792 --> 00:58:26,033 coming to Europe immediately after the war, 1202 00:58:26,086 --> 00:58:30,045 I was always fascinated by that. 1203 00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:33,048 Schmader: Paul verhoeven wrote a companion book, 1204 00:58:33,093 --> 00:58:35,505 a picture book that goes along with the film, 1205 00:58:35,554 --> 00:58:37,340 called "showgirls: Portrait of a film." 1206 00:58:37,389 --> 00:58:39,220 I have to say that it kind of mirrors 1207 00:58:39,266 --> 00:58:41,222 the experience of watching the film. 1208 00:58:41,268 --> 00:58:43,884 It's a book that's beautifully produced. 1209 00:58:43,937 --> 00:58:48,351 However, it's this utter and complete pretentious seriousness 1210 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,483 about what this film is going to do. 1211 00:58:56,116 --> 00:58:57,856 Nayman: It's written as if this movie 1212 00:58:57,909 --> 00:58:59,524 is about to be a great success, 1213 00:58:59,578 --> 00:59:01,819 and this is going to be a chronicle of its success. 1214 00:59:01,872 --> 00:59:03,850 In my book I describe it as like reading a brochure 1215 00:59:03,874 --> 00:59:05,830 for the Titanic. 1216 00:59:09,129 --> 00:59:10,869 Schmader: And it's gotten more valuable 1217 00:59:10,922 --> 00:59:15,086 because he's since made some moves to kind of recast it as, 1218 00:59:15,135 --> 00:59:18,252 it was supposed to be bad, it was supposed to be a joke, 1219 00:59:18,305 --> 00:59:19,465 all of that was on purpose. 1220 00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,254 But the essays are, 1221 00:59:21,308 --> 00:59:25,551 it's all about what a meaningful erotic drama it is, 1222 00:59:25,604 --> 00:59:30,314 the kind of spiritual warfare between cristal and nomi. 1223 00:59:33,403 --> 00:59:35,485 It's invaluable for all those times 1224 00:59:35,530 --> 00:59:37,145 that you're watching "showgirls," 1225 00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:39,093 and your brain says, "what the fuck was he thinking? 1226 00:59:39,117 --> 00:59:41,554 What the fuck was he thinking?" And this dossier is the closest 1227 00:59:41,578 --> 00:59:42,988 we will ever get to the answer. 1228 00:59:55,759 --> 00:59:57,420 Woman: We're the razzies. 1229 00:59:57,469 --> 00:59:59,084 We don't have rules... 1230 00:59:59,137 --> 01:00:03,346 Except, of course, that the movies really, uh, suck! 1231 01:00:08,730 --> 01:00:10,311 "Showgirls"! 1232 01:00:13,985 --> 01:00:16,647 Schmader: Paul verhoeven accepted his worst film, 1233 01:00:16,696 --> 01:00:19,813 worst director award at the razzies 1234 01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:24,451 and was the first in history to show up to accept it. 1235 01:00:24,496 --> 01:00:26,657 The worst thing happened to me today. 1236 01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:29,413 I got seven of the worst awards, 1237 01:00:29,459 --> 01:00:32,292 and I'm very happy because it was much better, 1238 01:00:32,337 --> 01:00:34,749 much more fun than reading the reviews in September. 1239 01:00:34,798 --> 01:00:36,038 Thank you so much. 1240 01:00:37,676 --> 01:00:40,418 If you make a movie that everybody considers as bad, 1241 01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:43,837 and it disappears into no-man's-land immediately, 1242 01:00:43,890 --> 01:00:45,972 that's much worse, I think, 1243 01:00:46,017 --> 01:00:50,181 than being glorified for the worst movie of the year. 1244 01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:52,516 I thank you very, very much! Thank you! 1245 01:00:52,566 --> 01:00:54,807 Schmader: At the time, it seemed really healthy, 1246 01:00:54,860 --> 01:00:56,396 and it made sense to me, 1247 01:00:56,444 --> 01:00:59,356 but with the defenses that have come out lately, 1248 01:00:59,406 --> 01:01:01,738 it seems a little more confusing. 1249 01:01:01,783 --> 01:01:04,525 I used a style 1250 01:01:04,578 --> 01:01:10,039 that probably is not so well known in general, I would say. 1251 01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:12,324 The best comparison would be to look at, 1252 01:01:12,377 --> 01:01:16,290 let's say, German paintings of the '20s and '30s, 1253 01:01:16,339 --> 01:01:18,500 which is called the expressionism. 1254 01:01:18,550 --> 01:01:21,257 That was perhaps difficult, at that time, 1255 01:01:21,303 --> 01:01:24,966 to recognize that as a possibility of filmmaking. 1256 01:01:25,015 --> 01:01:28,553 I mean, that's another theory. 1257 01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:31,760 You laugh. You don't believe me. 1258 01:01:31,813 --> 01:01:34,304 Well, I invented it yesterday. 1259 01:01:34,357 --> 01:01:36,097 I can't believe I bought it! 1260 01:01:36,151 --> 01:01:38,358 We'll celebrate. I'll buy you a burrito. 1261 01:01:38,403 --> 01:01:41,190 I'll even buy you some fajitas. 1262 01:01:41,239 --> 01:01:42,900 Oh, fajita! 1263 01:01:42,949 --> 01:01:46,066 Nayman: Even in trying to write about the relationship 1264 01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:47,780 between nomi and Molly 1265 01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:51,538 and the relationship between nomi and cristal... 1266 01:01:51,583 --> 01:01:53,164 I got to go. 1267 01:01:53,210 --> 01:01:56,168 Aren't you gonna come here and give me a big kiss? 1268 01:01:56,213 --> 01:02:00,297 Nayman: There's a queer line that runs through the movie 1269 01:02:00,342 --> 01:02:02,833 and that runs through a lot of reception to the movie 1270 01:02:02,886 --> 01:02:06,094 and that runs through a lot of fandom. 1271 01:02:06,139 --> 01:02:07,617 Baume: The parallels between "showgirls" 1272 01:02:07,641 --> 01:02:11,225 and the gay experience are that nomi sets out 1273 01:02:11,269 --> 01:02:14,011 on her own to reinvent herself, to set out into the world 1274 01:02:14,064 --> 01:02:16,350 and find the big city and chase her dreams. 1275 01:02:16,399 --> 01:02:19,766 That is something that a lot of queer people do. 1276 01:02:21,947 --> 01:02:23,608 They leave the small town. 1277 01:02:23,657 --> 01:02:25,635 They leave whatever unfortunate circumstances are behind, 1278 01:02:25,659 --> 01:02:28,742 and they completely reinvent themselves with a new name, 1279 01:02:28,787 --> 01:02:30,618 with a new identity, with new dreams, 1280 01:02:30,664 --> 01:02:33,451 and so I think nomi's arrival in Las Vegas 1281 01:02:33,500 --> 01:02:35,957 is something that a lot of us have felt 1282 01:02:36,002 --> 01:02:37,788 when we arrive in Las Vegas or New York 1283 01:02:37,837 --> 01:02:41,625 or Seattle or Chicago or wherever we go. 1284 01:02:41,675 --> 01:02:43,631 Another reason that nomi resonates is because 1285 01:02:43,677 --> 01:02:46,134 she is not afraid to use her sexuality. 1286 01:02:46,179 --> 01:02:48,386 I liked it when you came. 1287 01:02:48,431 --> 01:02:51,343 Baume: She is starving for sexual attention, 1288 01:02:51,393 --> 01:02:55,227 and she is unafraid of using her sex as a tool. 1289 01:02:55,272 --> 01:02:56,540 That's something that we very rarely see 1290 01:02:56,564 --> 01:02:58,270 with female characters. 1291 01:02:58,316 --> 01:03:01,729 Often they're victims, or they don't realize their power, 1292 01:03:01,778 --> 01:03:03,234 or they're so innocent. 1293 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,145 For nomi, sex is a means to an end. 1294 01:03:05,198 --> 01:03:06,938 I'm not saying that it's a good thing, 1295 01:03:06,992 --> 01:03:08,970 and I'm not saying that that's a healthy attitude to have, 1296 01:03:08,994 --> 01:03:11,986 but once again that's something that is familiar 1297 01:03:12,038 --> 01:03:14,529 to gay men in their interactions with each other 1298 01:03:14,582 --> 01:03:17,824 that I don't think straight men or straight women 1299 01:03:17,877 --> 01:03:20,368 have experienced in the same way. 1300 01:03:20,422 --> 01:03:23,164 Hey, stay with me. 1301 01:03:23,216 --> 01:03:27,425 Baume: Nomi has a chosen family that she builds and looks after. 1302 01:03:27,470 --> 01:03:29,836 I'm not gonna say that it's a healthy chosen family. 1303 01:03:29,889 --> 01:03:34,223 They all seem very fixated on unhealthy sexual attention 1304 01:03:34,269 --> 01:03:36,976 with each other, but she's got that chosen family, 1305 01:03:37,022 --> 01:03:38,637 and they look out for each other. 1306 01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:40,626 That's one of the other reasons that I think "showgirls" 1307 01:03:40,650 --> 01:03:42,265 resonates with gay men. 1308 01:03:42,319 --> 01:03:45,982 When one of her friends is bashed, she bashes back. 1309 01:03:47,115 --> 01:03:48,946 And so that's a revenge fantasy 1310 01:03:48,992 --> 01:03:51,028 that a lot of queer people have experienced, 1311 01:03:51,077 --> 01:03:54,069 that we've been victimized by straight white men 1312 01:03:54,122 --> 01:03:57,080 who are in charge, who are running the world, 1313 01:03:57,125 --> 01:03:59,332 and to realize that we have power 1314 01:03:59,377 --> 01:04:02,665 and that we can derive power from our sexuality as nomi does 1315 01:04:02,714 --> 01:04:05,581 is a very empowering message. 1316 01:04:07,719 --> 01:04:10,256 Schmader: I'd been doing the screenings 1317 01:04:10,305 --> 01:04:13,297 and touring a bit and finally came... 1318 01:04:13,350 --> 01:04:14,931 I was working at the stranger newspaper, 1319 01:04:14,976 --> 01:04:16,432 and I came to work one day, 1320 01:04:16,478 --> 01:04:18,639 and there was a voicemail message there 1321 01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:21,646 from somebody at mgm saying I needed to call them back. 1322 01:04:21,691 --> 01:04:23,181 And I was absolutely sure 1323 01:04:23,234 --> 01:04:25,190 it was gonna be the cease-and-desist order 1324 01:04:25,236 --> 01:04:27,192 that I'd been waiting for. 1325 01:04:27,238 --> 01:04:28,569 But it wasn't. 1326 01:04:28,615 --> 01:04:30,697 They were excited about what I was doing, 1327 01:04:30,742 --> 01:04:33,279 and they invited me to record the commentary 1328 01:04:33,328 --> 01:04:37,241 for the special edition "showgirls" DVD. 1329 01:04:37,290 --> 01:04:39,326 And after that, everything changed 1330 01:04:39,376 --> 01:04:41,662 because once I had their vote of confidence, 1331 01:04:41,711 --> 01:04:43,417 they were happy with me touring. 1332 01:04:43,463 --> 01:04:46,330 Once they had a product that they could sell 1333 01:04:46,383 --> 01:04:48,920 in this new framing of "showgirls" 1334 01:04:48,968 --> 01:04:51,960 as not a hard-hitting, sexy "raging bull" 1335 01:04:52,013 --> 01:04:54,129 like they tried with the first launch. 1336 01:04:55,683 --> 01:04:56,968 So that was a shock. 1337 01:04:57,018 --> 01:04:58,849 I was ready for a cease and desist, 1338 01:04:58,895 --> 01:05:01,932 and my "showgirls" thing would have been six months of my life 1339 01:05:01,981 --> 01:05:03,846 instead of 20 years. 1340 01:05:19,332 --> 01:05:24,543 Sconce: In 2003, I was asked to contribute to a special forum 1341 01:05:24,587 --> 01:05:27,454 on "showgirls" in film quarterly, 1342 01:05:27,507 --> 01:05:29,463 and I was glad to do so at that time 1343 01:05:29,509 --> 01:05:33,718 because by then my opinion of the film had really changed. 1344 01:05:33,763 --> 01:05:35,253 I'll admit the first time I saw it, 1345 01:05:35,306 --> 01:05:36,796 I thought that it was kind of 1346 01:05:36,850 --> 01:05:40,138 just a really confusing, out-of-control film 1347 01:05:40,186 --> 01:05:42,177 that didn't make much sense. 1348 01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:45,722 But I think it's easy just to sort of see it as a failed film. 1349 01:05:45,775 --> 01:05:47,515 What are you looking at, bitch? 1350 01:05:47,569 --> 01:05:49,088 All right, you guys. Let's go. Let's move it. 1351 01:05:49,112 --> 01:05:50,352 Come on. Go, go, go, go. 1352 01:05:50,405 --> 01:05:52,521 J nanananalj 1353 01:05:52,574 --> 01:05:54,314 j ahh-ahh ahh-ahhh j 1354 01:05:54,367 --> 01:05:55,982 j nanananalj 1355 01:05:56,035 --> 01:05:57,805 sconce: But again, I think that's because most people 1356 01:05:57,829 --> 01:06:00,195 come to the movies now with this idea 1357 01:06:00,248 --> 01:06:03,456 that films have to be realistic or naturalistic. 1358 01:06:04,586 --> 01:06:08,044 If you see it a second time, you start to realize 1359 01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:13,129 that some of the scenes are being performed and shot 1360 01:06:13,178 --> 01:06:18,298 in a way that is antirealist, right, that they really... 1361 01:06:18,349 --> 01:06:21,216 There's something going on there beyond kind of failed realism. 1362 01:06:24,189 --> 01:06:28,102 Once I kind of made the jump, you know, the leap of faith 1363 01:06:28,151 --> 01:06:31,689 into the world that was being created by that film, 1364 01:06:31,738 --> 01:06:34,525 I've just loved it ever since, and not in a, you know, 1365 01:06:34,574 --> 01:06:36,690 camp sort of "it's so bad it's good" way, 1366 01:06:36,743 --> 01:06:42,613 but as a really interesting hyperstylized bit of filmmaking 1367 01:06:42,665 --> 01:06:46,999 you just don't see much in modern Hollywood. 1368 01:06:50,924 --> 01:06:53,882 All right. Where are we headed? You have to give me directions. 1369 01:06:54,844 --> 01:06:56,505 To your place. 1370 01:06:56,554 --> 01:06:59,887 Sconce: The scene that really sort of made me realize 1371 01:06:59,933 --> 01:07:01,619 there's something else going on in this film 1372 01:07:01,643 --> 01:07:03,634 that's much more interesting than the film 1373 01:07:03,686 --> 01:07:06,143 I'd seen in my mind before 1374 01:07:06,189 --> 01:07:08,726 was the whole seduction scene 1375 01:07:08,775 --> 01:07:12,142 between Kyle maclachlan and Elizabeth berkley... 1376 01:07:12,195 --> 01:07:13,776 The swimming pool scene. 1377 01:07:16,699 --> 01:07:19,281 And, you know, if you watch this scene with an audience, 1378 01:07:19,327 --> 01:07:21,784 people just start laughing. 1379 01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:24,036 And I think it's obviously... It's meant to be funny 1380 01:07:24,082 --> 01:07:27,495 because it is just... Just crazy. 1381 01:07:30,213 --> 01:07:31,794 There is a certain cynicism, I think, 1382 01:07:31,839 --> 01:07:33,295 in a lot of verhoeven's work, 1383 01:07:33,341 --> 01:07:35,707 in the kind of way everybody in that scenario 1384 01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:37,876 it just using each other and performing 1385 01:07:37,929 --> 01:07:39,465 these different roles to each other 1386 01:07:39,514 --> 01:07:42,972 and overperforming them, how they're all essentially 1387 01:07:43,017 --> 01:07:45,599 just these kind of two-dimensional 1388 01:07:45,645 --> 01:07:50,230 avatars of greed or avarice or whatever. 1389 01:07:50,275 --> 01:07:52,516 Is this meant to be a portrayal of sex, 1390 01:07:52,569 --> 01:07:55,436 or is this meant to be a portrayal of acting? 1391 01:07:55,488 --> 01:07:58,104 Seeing as this is all being staged in her attempts 1392 01:07:58,157 --> 01:07:59,863 to advance her career, 1393 01:07:59,909 --> 01:08:01,945 it's kind of the ultimate, you know, 1394 01:08:01,995 --> 01:08:03,610 "was that real? Was that not real?” 1395 01:08:03,663 --> 01:08:05,369 Kind of performance. 1396 01:08:06,416 --> 01:08:11,501 Nayman: The choreography in that dolphin-fountain sex scene 1397 01:08:11,546 --> 01:08:14,538 so mirrors nomi's lap dance, 1398 01:08:14,591 --> 01:08:17,424 you know, for Kyle maclachlan's character at the cheetah. 1399 01:08:17,468 --> 01:08:18,958 There it was, "look, don't touch." 1400 01:08:19,012 --> 01:08:21,549 Now it's actual sort of sex. 1401 01:08:21,598 --> 01:08:23,509 There's an idea of a barrier between them 1402 01:08:23,558 --> 01:08:25,094 that's kind of been broken. 1403 01:08:25,143 --> 01:08:27,179 You know, she's kind of in his house now. 1404 01:08:27,228 --> 01:08:30,061 He was in her establishment earlier, 1405 01:08:30,106 --> 01:08:31,971 and the sort of warm-up, 1406 01:08:32,025 --> 01:08:34,767 like, the sex that she had faked with him before 1407 01:08:34,819 --> 01:08:36,797 has kind of become real, but this isn't making love. 1408 01:08:36,821 --> 01:08:39,358 I mean, this is a transaction as much as anything else. 1409 01:08:39,407 --> 01:08:41,022 This is so she can be in the show 1410 01:08:41,075 --> 01:08:44,317 and sort of replace cristal and shore up her place 1411 01:08:44,370 --> 01:08:46,952 within that hierarchy in the stardust. 1412 01:08:46,998 --> 01:08:48,204 The film's view of the world 1413 01:08:48,249 --> 01:08:49,785 is someone is always on their way up, 1414 01:08:49,834 --> 01:08:54,419 and someone is kind of always on their way down. 1415 01:08:54,464 --> 01:08:56,000 You guys, let me through! 1416 01:08:56,049 --> 01:08:57,664 Oh, my god. 1417 01:08:57,717 --> 01:08:59,612 Schmader: After the pool scene, I stopped and asked 1418 01:08:59,636 --> 01:09:01,297 how many straight men are in the audience, 1419 01:09:01,346 --> 01:09:02,882 and how many lesbians, 1420 01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:05,512 and if anyone is even close to being turned on, 1421 01:09:05,558 --> 01:09:07,139 and the answer is always no. 1422 01:09:13,274 --> 01:09:14,889 A great question about "showgirls" 1423 01:09:14,942 --> 01:09:19,026 is how it wound up being the least sexy movie ever made. 1424 01:09:19,072 --> 01:09:20,528 This is another motif. 1425 01:09:20,573 --> 01:09:22,109 There's a point when cristal Connors 1426 01:09:22,158 --> 01:09:24,865 pulls down nomi's shirt, and her boobs are out again. 1427 01:09:28,790 --> 01:09:30,430 And they try to play it like a big reveal, 1428 01:09:30,458 --> 01:09:31,948 and it's like, "hello, old friends." 1429 01:09:32,001 --> 01:09:33,707 We've been... Like, you cannot... 1430 01:09:33,753 --> 01:09:35,994 Her boobs have been out for an hour and a half by then. 1431 01:09:36,047 --> 01:09:37,537 You cannot play it for a big reveal 1432 01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:39,455 that she is now showing her boobs. 1433 01:09:41,552 --> 01:09:45,261 Kidwell: I think Paul verhoeven, with his history, 1434 01:09:45,306 --> 01:09:47,718 the way that he directs actresses, 1435 01:09:47,767 --> 01:09:51,885 it's more scary than actually sexy. 1436 01:09:51,938 --> 01:09:54,600 Woman: Six, seven, eight... 1437 01:09:54,649 --> 01:09:55,809 It's all stereotypes. 1438 01:09:55,858 --> 01:09:57,519 All the characters are stereotypes. 1439 01:09:57,568 --> 01:09:59,900 And the white males are fucking creeps, 1440 01:09:59,946 --> 01:10:01,436 or they're gay. 1441 01:10:01,489 --> 01:10:04,401 - Nice dress. - Thanks, it's a "versayce." 1442 01:10:04,450 --> 01:10:07,317 - Woman: It's a what? - "Versayce." 1443 01:10:07,370 --> 01:10:11,613 - A what? - "Versayce," bitch. 1444 01:10:11,666 --> 01:10:14,078 Kidwell: Absolutely you can be both a feminist 1445 01:10:14,127 --> 01:10:17,119 and a fan of "showgirls." 1446 01:10:17,171 --> 01:10:21,380 We had such a magical time making "showgirls! The musical!" 1447 01:10:21,426 --> 01:10:26,295 And it was a hit, and we played at three different homes. 1448 01:10:26,347 --> 01:10:30,886 Hello, Las Vegas! I'm nomi Malone! 1449 01:10:30,935 --> 01:10:34,769 Kidwell: We were so incredibly well received in New York, 1450 01:10:34,814 --> 01:10:37,396 but in San Francisco, it was... 1451 01:10:37,442 --> 01:10:43,108 We got full standing ovations I think almost every night. 1452 01:10:44,115 --> 01:10:47,403 What I do in "showgirls," taking my top off, 1453 01:10:47,452 --> 01:10:48,942 performing on stage wearing a thong, 1454 01:10:48,995 --> 01:10:50,610 it's the most empowering thing. 1455 01:10:50,663 --> 01:10:53,370 Getting up in people's faces with my boobs, 1456 01:10:53,416 --> 01:10:56,408 it's empowering, and it's, like, I'm on stage, 1457 01:10:56,461 --> 01:10:58,452 and I'm the bravest person in this room 1458 01:10:58,504 --> 01:10:59,982 because I'm the one who's naked up here 1459 01:11:00,006 --> 01:11:02,588 and singing and dancing and having fun, 1460 01:11:02,633 --> 01:11:06,296 and I feel like I'm, you know, a part of a sisterhood 1461 01:11:06,345 --> 01:11:08,176 and supporting, you know, 1462 01:11:08,222 --> 01:11:12,716 Elizabeth berkley's choices in "showgirls," the film, 1463 01:11:12,769 --> 01:11:14,830 by getting up and saying, "hey, I'm gonna do it, too. 1464 01:11:14,854 --> 01:11:17,561 What do y'all got to say?" 1465 01:11:17,607 --> 01:11:19,768 Molly: Got any family you can call? 1466 01:11:19,817 --> 01:11:22,149 I don't have any family. 1467 01:11:22,195 --> 01:11:24,481 Any friends? 1468 01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:27,522 I don't have any friends. 1469 01:11:27,575 --> 01:11:29,566 So where are you from? 1470 01:11:33,289 --> 01:11:35,871 Different places! 1471 01:11:35,917 --> 01:11:40,001 Kidwell: Nomi's introduction to Vegas is what I would imagine 1472 01:11:40,046 --> 01:11:41,661 would be pretty standard for most... 1473 01:11:41,714 --> 01:11:44,000 For a lot of people of that age, you know, 1474 01:11:44,050 --> 01:11:46,587 but she's also a special case because she's the kind of broad 1475 01:11:46,636 --> 01:11:49,423 who walks around with a chip on her shoulder, 1476 01:11:50,973 --> 01:11:53,885 and she's a magnet to trouble. 1477 01:11:53,935 --> 01:11:58,269 That was not my case, being a 16-year-old mormon girl 1478 01:11:58,314 --> 01:12:00,726 just coming to Vegas so... 1479 01:12:00,775 --> 01:12:02,515 Nearest family members? 1480 01:12:02,568 --> 01:12:05,184 Kidwell: I don't have a good relationship with my parents. 1481 01:12:05,238 --> 01:12:07,820 You know, I'm legally disowned and... 1482 01:12:07,865 --> 01:12:09,526 - Deceased? Kidwell: Felt like a... 1483 01:12:09,575 --> 01:12:10,781 Yes. 1484 01:12:10,827 --> 01:12:13,569 Kidwell.: A street rat for a while. 1485 01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:16,529 I love this film. 1486 01:12:16,582 --> 01:12:21,372 I love it for strange, unexpected reasons. 1487 01:12:21,420 --> 01:12:23,001 It's kind of a hero's journey 1488 01:12:23,047 --> 01:12:26,335 in the most unlikely of protagonists. 1489 01:12:26,384 --> 01:12:29,797 It's like, "oh, god!" It's like a lamp goes up, yeah? 1490 01:12:29,846 --> 01:12:33,009 Kidwell: Paul verhoeven had his own vision of the film. 1491 01:12:33,057 --> 01:12:35,514 It makes for juicy, dramatic storytelling, 1492 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:36,912 but when you're actually living it, 1493 01:12:36,936 --> 01:12:39,769 it's a nauseating feeling. 1494 01:12:41,774 --> 01:12:46,814 In 2011, I ended up in New York, 1495 01:12:46,863 --> 01:12:52,233 bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and ready to become a star. 1496 01:12:52,285 --> 01:12:57,450 And so I was working for a while as a karaoke dj and just, 1497 01:12:57,498 --> 01:13:02,618 you know, New York story, barely scraping by, but happy. 1498 01:13:02,670 --> 01:13:04,501 When I was working as a karaoke dj, 1499 01:13:04,547 --> 01:13:08,711 I got drugged by a lone patron, the last patron of the night, 1500 01:13:08,759 --> 01:13:12,047 and he took me home, and he raped me. 1501 01:13:19,645 --> 01:13:21,260 And destroyed my world, 1502 01:13:21,314 --> 01:13:24,932 and I had crippling PTSD, 1503 01:13:24,984 --> 01:13:27,270 and I didn't have the services to support myself. 1504 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,312 I was living off of savings that were draining. 1505 01:13:30,364 --> 01:13:33,276 I eventually got evicted. 1506 01:13:33,326 --> 01:13:35,692 I was not able to work. I couldn't function. 1507 01:13:35,745 --> 01:13:37,701 I had stopped speaking for a few months. 1508 01:13:37,747 --> 01:13:40,204 After that happened, I lost, like, 10 pounds in a week. 1509 01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:42,956 It was horrifying, and I couldn't afford 1510 01:13:43,002 --> 01:13:45,869 the medication that I needed, and it was bad. 1511 01:13:45,922 --> 01:13:47,833 And so then I had a boyfriend at that time 1512 01:13:47,882 --> 01:13:51,215 who was so benevolent and such an angel, 1513 01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:54,798 and he saw a post for "bayside! The musical!" 1514 01:13:54,847 --> 01:13:58,055 The audition for it, and he... 1515 01:13:58,100 --> 01:14:00,466 I remember him holding my hand and telling me, 1516 01:14:00,519 --> 01:14:03,226 "I would be really proud of you if you went to this audition." 1517 01:14:04,607 --> 01:14:06,268 So I did. 1518 01:14:06,317 --> 01:14:10,310 And I sang a song about molestation that I made up, 1519 01:14:10,363 --> 01:14:13,400 and everybody laughed, and I got it. 1520 01:14:13,449 --> 01:14:15,940 I got Jessie spano. 1521 01:14:15,993 --> 01:14:20,828 J bayside high j 1522 01:14:20,873 --> 01:14:24,161 because my character, Jessie spano, 1523 01:14:24,210 --> 01:14:26,826 was addicted to caffeine pills 1524 01:14:26,879 --> 01:14:29,040 and having panic attacks on stage, 1525 01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:32,298 my whole role was just, like, a meltdown... crazy-time. 1526 01:14:32,343 --> 01:14:34,379 It's about Jessie. 1527 01:14:40,351 --> 01:14:43,013 I think that she's been taking drugs. 1528 01:14:43,062 --> 01:14:46,304 Zack: Drugs? Are you crazy? 1529 01:14:46,357 --> 01:14:50,851 Kidwell: It was miraculously a very cathartic 1530 01:14:50,903 --> 01:14:52,609 artistic experience for me. 1531 01:14:52,655 --> 01:14:54,270 I was able to channel my panic attacks 1532 01:14:54,323 --> 01:14:56,439 I was having in my personal life, 1533 01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:59,984 dealing with living with PTSD... 1534 01:15:01,038 --> 01:15:01,948 Jessie! 1535 01:15:01,998 --> 01:15:09,998 J I'm so excited! J 1536 01:15:14,844 --> 01:15:19,258 I'm so scared. 1537 01:15:19,306 --> 01:15:21,547 Kidwell: And channel that on stage 1538 01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,716 and just let it go and work it out 1539 01:15:23,769 --> 01:15:25,414 'cause I couldn't afford a therapist at the time. 1540 01:15:25,438 --> 01:15:26,623 I did three years without therapy, 1541 01:15:26,647 --> 01:15:28,262 so doing "bayside!" 1542 01:15:28,315 --> 01:15:30,476 Was my first step with therapy. 1543 01:15:39,326 --> 01:15:40,657 Schmader: Shifting tones 1544 01:15:40,703 --> 01:15:43,069 is a big distinct fact of "showgirls," 1545 01:15:43,122 --> 01:15:44,783 where you think you're watching a comedy, 1546 01:15:44,832 --> 01:15:46,143 and then you're watching a weird drama, 1547 01:15:46,167 --> 01:15:47,686 and then you're watching something sexy, 1548 01:15:47,710 --> 01:15:48,979 and you're watching something gross... 1549 01:15:49,003 --> 01:15:51,164 Um, Molly is one of your biggest fans. 1550 01:15:51,213 --> 01:15:54,080 Well, then, let me get you a drink. 1551 01:15:54,133 --> 01:15:56,465 Schmader: And with the rape scene, 1552 01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:58,375 the tone shifts really abruptly 1553 01:15:58,429 --> 01:16:04,925 to hard-core, second-to-second depiction of a sexual assault, 1554 01:16:04,977 --> 01:16:08,060 like the way that "the accused” had, 1555 01:16:08,105 --> 01:16:11,063 but "the accused” spent 90 boring minutes 1556 01:16:11,108 --> 01:16:14,271 setting up the foundation to earn that scene, 1557 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,483 and in "showgirls" it just doesn't seem earned at all. 1558 01:16:17,531 --> 01:16:19,863 What's going on? 1559 01:16:19,909 --> 01:16:22,275 Schmader: I tell the audience what happens, like, 1560 01:16:22,328 --> 01:16:24,284 "in this scene, for some reason, Molly Abrams, 1561 01:16:24,330 --> 01:16:26,662 the only decent human in the film, 1562 01:16:26,707 --> 01:16:30,120 is brutally beaten and gang-raped with no motivation, 1563 01:16:30,169 --> 01:16:32,034 and we're going to skip it." 1564 01:16:36,217 --> 01:16:37,944 Mlotek: "Showgirls" never misses an opportunity 1565 01:16:37,968 --> 01:16:41,005 to crucify a woman when it can, and it's sort of like, 1566 01:16:41,055 --> 01:16:45,469 watching it, "what's the point? What are you trying to say? 1567 01:16:45,518 --> 01:16:46,803 What are you trying to tell us?" 1568 01:16:46,852 --> 01:16:48,308 And with Paul verhoeven especially, 1569 01:16:48,354 --> 01:16:49,623 when you look at a movie like "showgirls," 1570 01:16:49,647 --> 01:16:51,262 where he's like, 1571 01:16:51,315 --> 01:16:53,681 "oh, you guys are so titillated by sexual violence. 1572 01:16:53,734 --> 01:16:55,565 I'm going to show you real sexual violence. 1573 01:16:55,611 --> 01:16:56,976 Then you'll know how bad it is.” 1574 01:16:57,029 --> 01:16:59,145 It's like, "who are you talking to?" 1575 01:16:59,198 --> 01:17:02,235 Because you're certainly not talking to the women 1576 01:17:02,284 --> 01:17:04,821 who are watching this movie, because we know. 1577 01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:07,156 You're talking as a man who is both convinced 1578 01:17:07,206 --> 01:17:09,948 that you have never been a perpetrator of sexual violence 1579 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,742 or that you know any perpetrators of sexual violence, 1580 01:17:12,795 --> 01:17:15,753 which is misogyny at its worst, 1581 01:17:15,798 --> 01:17:18,881 this insidious belief that bad men hide in the shadows 1582 01:17:18,926 --> 01:17:21,258 and comprise less than 1% of the population, 1583 01:17:21,303 --> 01:17:22,656 that you'll never really meet them, 1584 01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:24,671 and so you need a film like "showgirls" 1585 01:17:24,723 --> 01:17:28,557 to show you what evil can actually look like. 1586 01:17:39,738 --> 01:17:42,980 Schmader: The worst violence in the movie happens to her, 1587 01:17:43,033 --> 01:17:44,614 and it's like her brutalization 1588 01:17:44,660 --> 01:17:47,868 becomes nomi's opportunity to redeem herself. 1589 01:17:47,913 --> 01:17:49,449 Is she okay? 1590 01:17:49,498 --> 01:17:50,498 She's okay. 1591 01:17:50,541 --> 01:17:51,781 Schmader: What you can see 1592 01:17:51,834 --> 01:17:53,699 is a kind of interracial solidarity... 1593 01:17:53,752 --> 01:17:55,162 I love you. 1594 01:17:55,212 --> 01:17:57,052 Schmader: Or even a kind of class solidarity 1595 01:17:57,089 --> 01:17:58,499 or feminist solidarity, 1596 01:17:58,549 --> 01:18:01,336 or it's just the rankest kind of exploitation. 1597 01:18:01,385 --> 01:18:03,592 Sconce: Paul verhoeven seems to obsessed 1598 01:18:03,637 --> 01:18:07,380 with violent sexual scenes or rape scenes 1599 01:18:07,433 --> 01:18:11,096 because they appear in many of his films. 1600 01:18:17,568 --> 01:18:18,933 Aaah! 1601 01:18:24,283 --> 01:18:25,886 Mlotek: Look, there's no other way to say this, 1602 01:18:25,910 --> 01:18:28,117 but the one place I think that succeeds... 1603 01:18:28,162 --> 01:18:31,154 Ew, I'm sorry... Is in "robocop," 1604 01:18:31,207 --> 01:18:33,789 where it is played for such a straightforward laugh 1605 01:18:33,834 --> 01:18:37,247 in that the most obvious form of justice 1606 01:18:37,296 --> 01:18:40,914 for an attempted rape is a literal castration. 1607 01:18:42,259 --> 01:18:43,749 Aah! 1608 01:18:43,802 --> 01:18:46,009 Mlotek: Yes, that's how a robot who had the brain 1609 01:18:46,055 --> 01:18:51,049 of a former Detroit police officer would think of it. 1610 01:18:55,147 --> 01:18:56,432 Aah! 1611 01:19:04,782 --> 01:19:06,943 I like you better topless. 1612 01:19:08,077 --> 01:19:11,160 Wait till you see me bottomless. 1613 01:19:11,205 --> 01:19:14,914 Mlotek: I think a lot about the scene at the end of the movie 1614 01:19:14,959 --> 01:19:19,077 where nomi somehow gets revenge by beating up Andrew carver, 1615 01:19:19,129 --> 01:19:21,541 and that's presented as though it's empowering, 1616 01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:24,457 and I find that to be, like, the most cynical thing... 1617 01:19:25,511 --> 01:19:28,674 Next time, I'll fucking kill you. 1618 01:19:29,848 --> 01:19:32,806 Mlotek: That a woman would find real justice 1619 01:19:32,851 --> 01:19:34,933 in handing out more pain... 1620 01:19:38,148 --> 01:19:39,558 Because she knows that there are 1621 01:19:39,608 --> 01:19:43,021 no structures of justice available to her. 1622 01:19:44,571 --> 01:19:46,186 That's not misogyny itself. 1623 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,481 That's just a depiction of the way misogyny works. 1624 01:19:48,534 --> 01:19:50,720 But it is extremely cynical that we are supposed to see that 1625 01:19:50,744 --> 01:19:53,702 as triumph in some sense, for either character, 1626 01:19:53,747 --> 01:19:55,738 for nomi or for Molly. 1627 01:19:57,001 --> 01:19:58,832 Fuck off! 1628 01:19:59,586 --> 01:20:02,168 J it's a fine line j 1629 01:20:02,214 --> 01:20:07,584 j between a whore and a warrior j 1630 01:20:07,636 --> 01:20:09,843 kidwell: What makes up for the rape scene in the film 1631 01:20:09,888 --> 01:20:12,595 is nomi's revenge. 1632 01:20:12,641 --> 01:20:16,634 J nobody knows me j 1633 01:20:16,687 --> 01:20:18,973 kidwell.: It's my favorite scene in the musical. 1634 01:20:19,023 --> 01:20:21,355 The song is called "whorrior!" 1635 01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,561 A whore and a warrior combined. 1636 01:20:25,738 --> 01:20:27,854 J the whorrior j 1637 01:20:27,906 --> 01:20:30,818 it's like a whore and a warrior combined! 1638 01:20:37,666 --> 01:20:43,332 J 'cause I'm... I'm a whorrior j 1639 01:20:46,342 --> 01:20:48,674 kidwell: Every Lyric, every note, 1640 01:20:48,719 --> 01:20:50,550 every roundhouse kick 1641 01:20:50,596 --> 01:20:55,215 is therapeutic, cathartic, just joy... 1642 01:20:55,267 --> 01:20:58,509 Nomi: Fucker! Fuck off! 1643 01:20:58,562 --> 01:21:00,598 Kidwell: And that is my song. 1644 01:21:00,647 --> 01:21:03,104 J whorrior j 1645 01:21:03,150 --> 01:21:04,811 kidwell: I carry it with me. 1646 01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:07,897 J that's like a whore and a warrior combined j 1647 01:21:07,946 --> 01:21:10,278 kidwell.: It's positive and powerful and weird 1648 01:21:10,324 --> 01:21:13,191 having that protagonist 1649 01:21:13,243 --> 01:21:16,952 as actually a character that's so cathartic 1650 01:21:16,997 --> 01:21:20,660 and helped me move to my best self 1651 01:21:20,709 --> 01:21:24,952 and my new life that's actually really happy 1652 01:21:25,005 --> 01:21:28,543 and joyous and healthy and positive and supportive 1653 01:21:28,592 --> 01:21:31,254 and all the good things people want in life. 1654 01:21:34,223 --> 01:21:35,700 Nayman: We all of us have this relationship 1655 01:21:35,724 --> 01:21:37,009 to artists we admire. 1656 01:21:37,059 --> 01:21:38,674 As a critic, you have to be careful 1657 01:21:38,727 --> 01:21:40,342 because you're not writing for them, 1658 01:21:40,396 --> 01:21:43,138 and you need to remain objective. 1659 01:21:43,190 --> 01:21:45,460 You know, I didn't write this book so the director of the film 1660 01:21:45,484 --> 01:21:48,100 I'm writing about could sort of like it. 1661 01:21:48,153 --> 01:21:52,271 The fact that he did, and that we had some pretty interesting, 1662 01:21:52,324 --> 01:21:54,986 serious, long conversations about that film 1663 01:21:55,035 --> 01:21:58,072 and other things and... It's really nice. 1664 01:22:05,671 --> 01:22:08,754 That he went out of his way to be in touch 1665 01:22:08,799 --> 01:22:13,008 because the film is described in the book as being good. 1666 01:22:13,053 --> 01:22:14,668 I mean, I don't think in retrospect 1667 01:22:14,721 --> 01:22:16,177 he finds all of this to be 1668 01:22:16,223 --> 01:22:18,839 like a fascinating learning experience 1669 01:22:18,892 --> 01:22:21,429 about changing tastes and stuff. 1670 01:22:21,478 --> 01:22:23,969 He made "starship troopers” after because the machinery 1671 01:22:24,022 --> 01:22:27,014 had already been moving to make a big special effects film, 1672 01:22:27,067 --> 01:22:29,854 and he made "hollow man," and that's it, you know? 1673 01:22:29,903 --> 01:22:32,269 "Black book" and "tricked" and "Elle" 1674 01:22:32,322 --> 01:22:35,029 are all made in Europe. 1675 01:22:57,556 --> 01:22:59,200 Schmader: I did an interview with Kyle maclachlan. 1676 01:22:59,224 --> 01:23:01,135 I was film editor for the stranger, 1677 01:23:01,185 --> 01:23:03,267 and he was here for being honored 1678 01:23:03,312 --> 01:23:06,099 at Seattle international film festival for his body of work, 1679 01:23:06,148 --> 01:23:08,376 and I did an interview with him, and I wasn't gonna be the jerk 1680 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,015 who brought up "showgirls," but he did. 1681 01:23:10,068 --> 01:23:11,649 I don't think he knows about this, 1682 01:23:11,695 --> 01:23:14,027 about what we have going on here, 1683 01:23:14,072 --> 01:23:16,859 but he was ready to talk about "showgirls" on his own, 1684 01:23:16,909 --> 01:23:19,821 and he held forth on, "no, we were making a drama. 1685 01:23:19,870 --> 01:23:23,738 We were directed to huge, outsized emotions 1686 01:23:23,790 --> 01:23:25,977 while trying to make this drama, and we just followed it." 1687 01:23:26,001 --> 01:23:28,458 And he wanted me to take away the moral of, like, 1688 01:23:28,504 --> 01:23:32,463 "do not believe that any of us on that crew or cast 1689 01:23:32,508 --> 01:23:36,092 thought we were making anything except a hard-hitting drama." 1690 01:23:41,183 --> 01:23:43,299 Conway: So in an effort to answer my... 1691 01:23:43,352 --> 01:23:45,593 One of my own question about 1692 01:23:45,646 --> 01:23:49,685 what was Elizabeth berkley's experience in real life like, 1693 01:23:49,733 --> 01:23:51,815 having to deal with the aftermath 1694 01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:55,227 of what I call the critical devastation that she was handed 1695 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,147 after the release of "showgirls," 1696 01:23:58,200 --> 01:23:59,861 I started to go onto the Internet 1697 01:23:59,910 --> 01:24:02,026 and do searches for her appearances, 1698 01:24:02,079 --> 01:24:03,615 and the first one I found 1699 01:24:03,664 --> 01:24:06,280 was an appearance on "handmade modern"... 1700 01:24:06,333 --> 01:24:08,093 - Oldham: Come on out, Elizabeth. - Hi, Todd. 1701 01:24:08,126 --> 01:24:09,582 - Yay! - How are you? 1702 01:24:09,628 --> 01:24:11,243 Conway: In 2005. 1703 01:24:11,296 --> 01:24:13,708 That was an hgtv show hosted by Todd oldham. 1704 01:24:13,757 --> 01:24:15,588 You just see him salivating. 1705 01:24:15,634 --> 01:24:18,501 You just know he's dying to go there, and finally he does. 1706 01:24:18,554 --> 01:24:20,385 I've never done string art. 1707 01:24:20,430 --> 01:24:22,367 I know you've had a couple of costumes about this big, but... 1708 01:24:22,391 --> 01:24:24,598 Yeah, about that big. That's about it. 1709 01:24:24,643 --> 01:24:26,179 It's funny because that movie, yeah, 1710 01:24:26,228 --> 01:24:28,184 it definitely was met with a lot of controversy 1711 01:24:28,230 --> 01:24:32,564 when it initially came out, and then, funny enough, 1712 01:24:32,609 --> 01:24:34,440 it has found this interesting little life, 1713 01:24:34,486 --> 01:24:37,398 like this either cult kind of favorite, you know? 1714 01:24:37,447 --> 01:24:39,688 Because again, like, if something doesn't do well, 1715 01:24:39,741 --> 01:24:41,135 it can just die on some video shelf, 1716 01:24:41,159 --> 01:24:42,774 you never hear about it. 1717 01:24:42,828 --> 01:24:45,240 It strangely found this interesting... 1718 01:24:45,289 --> 01:24:47,245 Interesting life after that, so... 1719 01:24:47,291 --> 01:24:50,203 Conway: So there's some recognition there that it was, 1720 01:24:50,252 --> 01:24:54,621 in fact, a bomb, but almost a little sweet that, 1721 01:24:54,673 --> 01:24:56,880 you know, people are still talking about it. 1722 01:24:56,925 --> 01:24:58,790 Of course, she doesn't really go on about 1723 01:24:58,844 --> 01:25:00,380 how they're talking about it, 1724 01:25:00,429 --> 01:25:02,590 but at least it's being talked about. 1725 01:25:02,639 --> 01:25:05,631 In 2008, she appeared with Chelsea handler 1726 01:25:05,684 --> 01:25:07,094 on her talk show... 1727 01:25:07,144 --> 01:25:08,850 Let's move on to "showgirls," though, 1728 01:25:08,895 --> 01:25:10,248 because I know that that was, like, 1729 01:25:10,272 --> 01:25:12,513 one hot mess of a movie, okay? 1730 01:25:12,566 --> 01:25:13,566 It was. 1731 01:25:13,609 --> 01:25:14,940 Conway: And it seems like 1732 01:25:14,985 --> 01:25:17,692 the first time that I could find that, 1733 01:25:17,738 --> 01:25:20,650 on TV, somebody sort of crosses the line and points out 1734 01:25:20,699 --> 01:25:24,191 that the movie was actually a mess in front of her. 1735 01:25:24,244 --> 01:25:26,610 And then Elizabeth pieces together 1736 01:25:26,663 --> 01:25:28,745 this alternate reading of the film, 1737 01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:30,621 which I think is brilliant. 1738 01:25:30,667 --> 01:25:32,828 It's this kind of just over-the-top, fun movie, 1739 01:25:32,878 --> 01:25:34,743 which is what it was intended to be, 1740 01:25:34,796 --> 01:25:38,004 and now people have really found the fun in it. 1741 01:25:38,050 --> 01:25:41,668 Conway: It was intended as a fun, over-the-top movie. 1742 01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:43,426 I just thought that was brilliant, 1743 01:25:43,472 --> 01:25:48,842 to start retelling the story of what this film is, 1744 01:25:48,894 --> 01:25:52,182 has been to so many people, so, good for her. 1745 01:25:52,230 --> 01:25:53,686 You got a lot of heat for that movie. 1746 01:25:53,732 --> 01:25:55,017 Berkley: It was hard. 1747 01:25:55,067 --> 01:25:56,336 It was hard when it first came out, 1748 01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:57,795 and I had to really deal with it on my own 1749 01:25:57,819 --> 01:25:59,380 because no one really came to my defense, 1750 01:25:59,404 --> 01:26:03,147 which was really painful at a really young age. 1751 01:26:20,467 --> 01:26:21,923 Conway: At the end of "showgirls," 1752 01:26:21,968 --> 01:26:23,799 when nomi heads to Los Angeles, 1753 01:26:23,845 --> 01:26:28,384 maybe nomi marries the nephew of one of the richest designers 1754 01:26:28,433 --> 01:26:30,719 who was ever on this planet 1755 01:26:30,769 --> 01:26:33,556 and has a child and lives in Beverly Hills 1756 01:26:33,605 --> 01:26:34,640 and becomes a vegetarian. 1757 01:26:34,690 --> 01:26:35,896 I don't know. 1758 01:26:35,941 --> 01:26:38,227 Zack: Hey, babe. You ready to drive? 1759 01:26:38,276 --> 01:26:40,483 Jessie: Yeah, uh-huh. What is that? 1760 01:26:40,529 --> 01:26:42,736 - They're drive pills. - Drive pills? 1761 01:26:42,781 --> 01:26:44,988 J I'm so excited j 1762 01:26:45,033 --> 01:26:46,819 baume: I know that Elizabeth berkley 1763 01:26:46,868 --> 01:26:48,984 recently made fun of her "saved by the bell" 1764 01:26:49,037 --> 01:26:51,119 "I'm so excited, I'm so excited, I'm so scared,” 1765 01:26:51,164 --> 01:26:52,620 on "dancing with the stars." 1766 01:26:52,666 --> 01:26:54,827 J I'm so excited j 1767 01:26:54,876 --> 01:26:56,832 j and I just can't hide it j 1768 01:26:56,878 --> 01:26:58,539 j no, no, no, no j 1769 01:26:58,588 --> 01:27:00,858 I would love to see her enjoying all the love and attention 1770 01:27:00,882 --> 01:27:04,500 that she's gotten from camp audiences for "showgirls." 1771 01:27:09,808 --> 01:27:14,222 Wyatt: In the 20-year history of the film "showgirls," 1772 01:27:14,271 --> 01:27:16,353 there has never, ever been 1773 01:27:16,398 --> 01:27:20,186 so large an assemblage of people to see this film. 1774 01:27:20,235 --> 01:27:22,647 I think we should have someone who worked on the film 1775 01:27:22,696 --> 01:27:23,981 say a few words. 1776 01:27:32,414 --> 01:27:34,075 Schmader: I love that she showed up 1777 01:27:34,124 --> 01:27:36,206 for that Hollywood forever screening in L.A. 1778 01:27:36,251 --> 01:27:38,037 And introduced the film. 1779 01:27:40,881 --> 01:27:42,872 I understand she got a standing ovation. 1780 01:27:44,050 --> 01:27:45,586 Can I do your nails sometime? 1781 01:27:45,635 --> 01:27:48,377 Man: Yes, mama! 1782 01:27:48,430 --> 01:27:51,922 Schmader: I'm so glad that she can plug into this second life. 1783 01:27:53,018 --> 01:27:55,725 This is such a special night. You don't even know. 1784 01:27:55,771 --> 01:27:57,682 This is 20 years in the making. 1785 01:27:57,731 --> 01:27:59,471 I can't believe I'm here with you. 1786 01:27:59,524 --> 01:28:01,480 4,000 people. 1787 01:28:01,526 --> 01:28:05,644 Tonight is like this magical full-circle moment 1788 01:28:05,697 --> 01:28:08,313 where I actually didn't get to experience 1789 01:28:08,366 --> 01:28:12,029 the sweetness of a screening with a crowd that embraced it. 1790 01:28:13,705 --> 01:28:16,321 I'm gonna send you off to enjoy this amazing night, 1791 01:28:16,374 --> 01:28:18,160 but I'm gonna just do one thing for you. 1792 01:28:18,210 --> 01:28:20,417 Woman: Uh-oh! Man: Yes! 1793 01:28:28,094 --> 01:28:30,130 Let the show begin. 1794 01:28:31,389 --> 01:28:32,575 Schmader: There's a sense of, like, 1795 01:28:32,599 --> 01:28:34,590 who's right about "showgirls"... 1796 01:28:34,643 --> 01:28:36,349 The people who think it's a terrible joke, 1797 01:28:36,394 --> 01:28:38,414 or the people who think it's a misunderstood masterpiece? 1798 01:28:38,438 --> 01:28:42,306 And it's, like, we're all right. It's a dream. 1799 01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:43,795 Nayman: It's been redeemed commercially. 1800 01:28:43,819 --> 01:28:46,356 It's been reclaimed artistically. 1801 01:28:46,404 --> 01:28:49,191 It's been sort of reconciled by the person who made it 1802 01:28:49,241 --> 01:28:51,607 with some of the people he made it with, 1803 01:28:51,660 --> 01:28:53,321 and I think that "showgirls" 1804 01:28:53,370 --> 01:28:57,864 is a film that you cannot give it its due 1805 01:28:57,916 --> 01:29:02,125 by simply praising it or by simply condemning it. 1806 01:29:02,170 --> 01:29:04,206 You give it its due by allowing 1807 01:29:04,256 --> 01:29:08,215 that both of these things are possible at once, 1808 01:29:08,260 --> 01:29:10,216 and that's the respect that it deserves,