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[Ramsey jingle]

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[cheering]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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BILL GATES: You graduates are
coming of ageat an amazing time.

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BARACK OBAMA: As Americans,
we enjoy more freedoms

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and opportunities and citizens
than any other nation on earth.

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AMARI SIMMONS: So my American
dream is pretty simple.

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My American dream is not
living paycheck to paycheck.

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BARACK: We have the chance to
get an education and work hard,

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and give our children
a better life.

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COURTNEY POLETTA: You don't go
to college, you don't get a job.

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That's the only way you could
make a living for yourself.

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MARK ZUCKERBERG: The challenge
for our generation

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is to create a world
where has a sense of purpose.

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JUSTIN MCDANIEL: From a pretty
early age I knew I wanted

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to be an Orthodontist.

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BARACK: What has always
been certain is the ability

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to shape that destiny.

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JOSIAH POLETTA: My mom
was a teacher, I just

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ended up falling in love
with history

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and went down that trek.

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OPRAH WINFREY:
You will be happy.

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You will be successful
and you will make a

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difference in the world.

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BARACK: Congratulations
on your graduation!

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[cheering]

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[dramatic music]
SETH GODIN: A college

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degree is a signal.

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MALE 1: Attend the best possible
university you can get into.

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MALE 2: You'd be wrong
to forgo a college education.

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FEMALE 1: The return
on a college education

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had never been greater.

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SETH G: What it is a
signal of, is: I'm able

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to speak a certain way,
and understand a certain

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set of cultural tropes and,
this group of people,

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maybe not so much.

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MARIA BARTIROMO: Finance is
very tough for many Americans.

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FEMALE 2: Tuition has
gone through the roof.

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SOLEDAD O'BRIEN:
Post-secondary education

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is now the largest source
of consumer borrowing

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behinds mortgage loans.

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MALE 4: So many families
are borrowing to the teeth.

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SETH G: And the thing that
we say to these kids is:

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Do this schtick in high
school, and it will

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get you into college.

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And then we say, now
do it again, and it

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will get you a job.

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MALE 5: They fall into
a trap our society

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has created for them.

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ALI VELSHI: Student loan debt
has been steadily increasing,

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affecting approximately
44 million Americans.

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MARIA: The cost of getting
a college education

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is having a lasting
effect on graduates.

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COURTNEY: It's just so natural,
like everyone knows it.

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SETH FROTMAN: This is good debt.

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AMARI: $13,000 can turn
into $25,000 easily.

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SETH F: There's a good
return on investment.

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JOSIAH: I'm paying all these
bills and I have nothing.

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SETH F: You did this to
chase the American dream

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that we all cherish.

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FEMALE 4: People
are alive but not living.

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MALE 6: This is not the way
the American dream was set up.

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JUSTIN: You know,
I'm 36, I have a million

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dollars in student loans.

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SETH G: Every piece
in the system did what

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it was supposed to do.

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And the victims
are 17 years old.

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SETH F: The story has all come
down to one thing.

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"How has this happen to me
when I did everything correct?"

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[ominous music]

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ANTHONY ONEAL: I remember man,
when I was, you know 17.

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Guy walked in from
a local college there in

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the city of Fayetteville
and said, "Hey,

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if you haven't started
thinking about college

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education, you are late...

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and if you really
want to be successful,

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you have to go to college.

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Because if you do not
go to college, you will

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not be successful."

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I didn't know how to process it.

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My entire young life,
I was never taught

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the proper education
of what I needed to be

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successful. I was just
told "Go to college.

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You will be successful,
and if you have to take out

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student loans, that's okay.

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Everyone is doing it."

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And I became,
like everyone.

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DAVE RAMSEY: The culture
in the last three

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or four decades
has dramatically shifted.

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It used to be that we said
education is important.

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Study something, so that
you can further your career.

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It moved from that to
where education was

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permission to play.

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You weren't gonna be valid
in the economy

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unless you had a four year,
or more, degree.

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Not only is it necessary,
but it's like a guarantee --

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That you're guaranteed
to be more successful.

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And so, you have to have this,
cause a degree is the answer.

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MAN: Society has rules.

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And the first rule is,
you gotta go to college.

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You want to have a happy
and successful life?

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You go to college.

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If you want to be somebody,
you go to college.

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If you want to fit in,
you go to college!

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Is
a four year college degree

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still a good investment.

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ROBERT FRANEK: I mean,
not surprisingly,

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we at the Princeton Review
think it's a good investment

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for a couple of reasons.

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One, a student is gonna earn
a million dollars more

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over their lifetime career
opposed if they didn't have

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a college degree.

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They're more nimble.

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They have lower rates
of unemployment.

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Even Robert Wood Johnson says,
they're going to live longer

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because they're likely gonna
better insurance.

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EVERYONE: Okay.

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MIKE ROWE: We set the table
in such a way that we doomed

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millions of parents
and kids to take the bait.

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When we elevated the pursuit
of a four year degree to here,

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we inversely relegated
a two year degree,

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or a community college,
or an apprenticeship

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program, or all those
other things down here.

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Higher education became a thing.

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Everything else
became an alternative.

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DR. JOHN DELONY: There was some
studies that came out and said,

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if you have a college degree,
you will make this much more

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in your lifetime.

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That became the marketing
slogan for higher ed.

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Which is if you come do this,
you make more money.

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The shift of a public good,
turned into a private good.

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I'm getting my degree
so I can make more money for me.

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Then the markets got involved.

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And this thing was not something
all invested in, like roads,

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or police or fire departments.

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It became a way
for me to get rich.

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MIKE: The cost of college
had grown faster

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than the cost of energy
and the cost of real estate,

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the cost of healthcare.

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All of it.

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Some how we got in our heads
that it's priceless.

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And we've told an entire
generation of kids,

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if they don't borrow
whatever it takes,

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then they're going to enter
into this crazy rat race

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hopelessly disadvantaged.

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So you got a 17
or 18 year old kid,

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being told to sign
on the dotted line, or else.

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His parents aren't
cautioning him not to do that.

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Guidance councilors aren't
saying "Hey, take a breath,

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be careful."

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Nobody is.

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SETH: I think where
this really becomes a crisis

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is millions of people
who faithfully

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pay their student loan
bill every month,

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where that debt
is having an enormous

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implication on their lives,
and their communities.

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Things like the ability to buy
a house, save for retirement,

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what career you choose, even if
you're gonna start a family.

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BRAD BARNETT: It's this
unintentional consequence

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of just living in society and
being surrounded by everything

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that says spend
and have a certain lifestyle,

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and it's okay to borrow
and to go into debt.

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And just make sure you
can afford the payments.

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They're just
following on a path.

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ANTHONY: Normal ended me
in the back of my car.

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Because I didn't have
no where to sleep.

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Normal ended me
in the YMCA washing myself,

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because I didn't have a home
to go to and take a shower.

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Before I even turned 19,
I'm $35,000 in debt.

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I was that young kid thinking
about committing suicide.

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I was that young kid
wondering how I'm gonna eat.

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And it was during
that season of my life,

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that I just decided I'm sick and
tired of being sick and tired.

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I'm tired of not being
able to have the options.

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What can I eat,
what can I do, where can I go?

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And so, I got
myself out of debt.

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Learned a lot about money.

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Learned a lot about life.

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CREW LADY: Alright, Anthony,
we're ready for ya.

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ANTHONY: Had to lose some
friends. Had to better myself.

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And I said,
when I get out of this,

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I want to be in front
of young people

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and help them go after
their dreams but make sure

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that their dreams
do not become nightmares.

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And when I look at this table,
I see dreams,

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but if it's going down
the wrong path,

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I also see future nightmares.

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And so, I'm excited to be here
with you all tonight.

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It's to have a conversation
about your life,

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and what you are experiencing.

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You all are about
to step into the real world.

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What is one thing that
you're feeling about graduation?

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CAMRYNN PLEASANT: So, once
I get outta high school,

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I gotta make sure I get
the right steps to make sure

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that whatever I do going forward
can put my kids

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in a better situation than I am.

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ANTHONY: Does that make
you fearful though?

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Are you nervous
about that? Why?

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CAMRYNN: Yeah,
cause I'm a teenager!

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So, you know, I make
bone-head decisions.

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[laughter]
CAMRYNN: So like, my

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small decision can play
a big role in my future.

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ANTHONY: Aye, but you know what?

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At least you admit that, bruh!

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My man said, "I'ma teenager.

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I'mma make some dumb decisions."

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What is one decision
you're scared of making?

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CAMRYNN: I wanna enjoy
my life to the fullest,

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cause I live for now.

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And then, I also gotta
live for the future.

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So you don't know
which one you wanna choose.

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KAMERON BOWLING: My mom,
tells me all the time to

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do what makes me happy.

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She'd support me 100%!

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But then, I also have my dad,
he tells me,

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"Look, you have
to pick something.

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It has to be something
that's high paying

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because you have
to feed yourself." You know?

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And when in old
society, today you can't

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just not go to college.

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Well, you can but,
it can be a little rough.

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CLAYTON: Of course
you're growing up, your

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parents always tell you,
"You can do anything want to do.

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You can do anything you put
your mind to," yada-yada-ya,

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"If you work hard in high school
and you keep these good grades

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and you take these classes.

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You'll go anywhere
you wanna go."

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Well, they don't
tell ya that there's

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a $180,000 price tag
attached to it.

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ANTHONY: So do you think college
is the only way

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you can be successful in life.

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ALL: Yes.

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Always.

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CLAYTON: Going to college
is like a safety net.

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No matter what you do in life,
no matter what dreams you chase.

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If you have a degree to fall
back on, you're always safe.

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[soft dramatic music]

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JOSIAH: My game plan
was the game plan that

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everyone else had.

241
00:11:38,088 --> 00:11:42,179
I'm going to apply
to get student loans.

242
00:11:42,223 --> 00:11:43,964
I always thought everything
was just gonna be fine.

243
00:11:44,007 --> 00:11:46,009
Every thing will
sort itself out.

244
00:11:47,576 --> 00:11:52,189
[engine starting]
[soft piano music]

245
00:11:55,802 --> 00:11:58,674
JOSIAH: College was
always in the picture.

246
00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:00,632
Older brother went to college.

247
00:12:00,676 --> 00:12:03,505
Older sister went to college so,
me being the youngest,

248
00:12:03,548 --> 00:12:04,985
also go to college.

249
00:12:05,028 --> 00:12:07,639
And, get the best
I can for myself.

250
00:12:07,683 --> 00:12:13,602
[soft piano music]
For that first year,

251
00:12:13,645 --> 00:12:15,343
was $24,000.

252
00:12:15,386 --> 00:12:16,910
I didn't work.

253
00:12:16,953 --> 00:12:19,782
I played through three sports,
so to me, it was real easy

254
00:12:19,826 --> 00:12:22,698
to just say, "This money
will just take care of itself.

255
00:12:22,742 --> 00:12:26,180
I'll make enough money."

256
00:12:26,223 --> 00:12:28,530
Went off to school
and didn't really worry about it

257
00:12:28,573 --> 00:12:31,402
for a year until we had to do it
all over again.

258
00:12:31,446 --> 00:12:32,969
INTERVIEWER: Free money?

259
00:12:33,013 --> 00:12:34,666
JOSIAH: Free money!

260
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:39,149
[bell ringing]
JOSIAH: Get out the notes

261
00:12:39,193 --> 00:12:42,326
that we started on before,
we're gonna keep going

262
00:12:42,370 --> 00:12:45,068
over values and beliefs
and things that we have

263
00:12:45,112 --> 00:12:47,810
in our society
that tells us what we can and

264
00:12:47,854 --> 00:12:49,812
cannot do and so on from there.

265
00:12:49,856 --> 00:12:51,988
COURTNEY: I met Josiah
through mutual friends.

266
00:12:52,032 --> 00:12:53,860
We were only dating
for a couple of months,

267
00:12:53,903 --> 00:12:56,819
and he just brought it up,
and I didn't even think

268
00:12:56,863 --> 00:12:57,733
twice about it.

269
00:12:57,777 --> 00:12:59,169
Like, everyone had it like that.

270
00:12:59,213 --> 00:13:00,562
It's fine. Whatever.

271
00:13:00,605 --> 00:13:04,218
And I don't think
it really hit me until, like,

272
00:13:04,261 --> 00:13:06,829
the week after we got married.

273
00:13:06,873 --> 00:13:09,571
We got a decent amount of money
from our wedding

274
00:13:09,614 --> 00:13:12,443
and that instantly went straight
to like, all of our bills.

275
00:13:12,487 --> 00:13:14,576
And then, like, it was gone.

276
00:13:14,619 --> 00:13:22,845
[soft piano music]
JOSIAH: Everyone in the

277
00:13:22,889 --> 00:13:25,892
pictures, they're so happy,
holding their diploma,

278
00:13:25,935 --> 00:13:27,676
walking across the stage.

279
00:13:27,719 --> 00:13:30,200
By the time the graduation
ceremony was,

280
00:13:30,244 --> 00:13:33,856
I had realized it's not
this happy-go-lucky time.

281
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:38,992
I had taken out about
$110,000 in student loans.

282
00:13:39,035 --> 00:13:43,431
Interest had been gathering the
entire time that had to balloon

283
00:13:43,474 --> 00:13:49,567
to $125,000 after four
and a half years of college.

284
00:13:49,611 --> 00:13:52,962
It was something
that I was not prepared for.

285
00:13:53,006 --> 00:13:56,183
It was an avalanche
coming down on me.

286
00:13:56,226 --> 00:14:00,361
I had a total of 11 separate
bills coming in the mail

287
00:14:00,404 --> 00:14:03,538
for eight hundred
and seventy some dollars

288
00:14:03,581 --> 00:14:05,670
that I was gonna have
to pay per month.

289
00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:09,065
[soft piano music]
ANTHONY: Student loan's

290
00:14:09,109 --> 00:14:10,110
on the table for you?

291
00:14:10,153 --> 00:14:12,112
CLAYTON: Yes.

292
00:14:12,155 --> 00:14:13,983
ANTHONY: Man, you jumped
straight to yes, bruh!

293
00:14:14,027 --> 00:14:16,116
[laughter]
CLAYTON: I mean, I'm not

294
00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:18,509
the first, I won't be the last,
like -- 'Cause --

295
00:14:18,553 --> 00:14:21,295
ANTHONY: Is that
the only option?

296
00:14:21,338 --> 00:14:25,908
CLAYTON: I mean, technically no.

297
00:14:25,952 --> 00:14:28,041
CAMRYNN: My thing is,
whenever you gotta do something,

298
00:14:28,084 --> 00:14:29,477
you gotta take the good
and the bad with it.

299
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,087
CECI DANG: Yeah.

300
00:14:31,131 --> 00:14:32,697
CAMRYNN: So like, my
thing is, if you want

301
00:14:32,741 --> 00:14:34,395
to be real successful,
you might have

302
00:14:34,438 --> 00:14:37,528
to take on the debt,
but is you gon' work hard

303
00:14:37,572 --> 00:14:39,269
to get out of the debt?

304
00:14:39,313 --> 00:14:40,705
KAMERON: But how much
debt is too much debt?

305
00:14:40,749 --> 00:14:42,316
CAMRYNN: Well, really,
you know like --

306
00:14:42,359 --> 00:14:43,839
That's the whole thing when
it comes to the student loans.

307
00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:45,449
Like, what is you feel like
is enough risk for you?

308
00:14:45,493 --> 00:14:47,408
CECI: Yeah!

309
00:14:47,451 --> 00:14:49,540
And in life,
like everything sucks.

310
00:14:49,584 --> 00:14:51,368
Everything has,
like, a backdrop.

311
00:14:51,412 --> 00:14:53,022
Everything has a trade-off.

312
00:14:53,066 --> 00:14:55,024
You're never gonna
get the good only.

313
00:14:55,068 --> 00:14:56,939
You're just choosing
what sucks less.

314
00:14:56,983 --> 00:14:57,809
CLAYTON: Well, yeah.

315
00:14:57,853 --> 00:14:59,637
That's true.

316
00:14:59,681 --> 00:15:01,204
KAMERON: I know people that are
planning to die with that debt.

317
00:15:01,248 --> 00:15:03,206
Like, they're only
paying interest.

318
00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:04,381
CECI: I'll take the blow.

319
00:15:04,425 --> 00:15:05,513
Like give it to me.

320
00:15:05,556 --> 00:15:06,818
You know?

321
00:15:06,862 --> 00:15:08,124
MARIO MIKHAEIL: So you'd like,
hold that burden

322
00:15:08,168 --> 00:15:10,170
for the rest of your life,
paying off student

323
00:15:10,213 --> 00:15:12,346
loans, hundreds and
hundreds of thousands --

324
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:13,347
CECI: Yeah, when you want
something really bad,

325
00:15:13,390 --> 00:15:15,523
you gotta take all of it.

326
00:15:15,566 --> 00:15:18,482
SETH F: This is probably one of,
if not the most important

327
00:15:18,526 --> 00:15:20,615
financial decisions
in your life.

328
00:15:20,658 --> 00:15:25,315
And I think a lot of this stems
from this unfortunate thought

329
00:15:25,359 --> 00:15:27,927
that we don't need
to worry about student debt

330
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:29,972
because it's "Good Debt".

331
00:15:30,016 --> 00:15:32,540
There's something
about the word "student"

332
00:15:32,583 --> 00:15:36,152
being before the word loan,
that just makes us think

333
00:15:36,196 --> 00:15:40,461
about this differently, and like
differently in a very bad way.

334
00:15:40,504 --> 00:15:47,294
[soft music]
DAVE: The student loan

335
00:15:47,337 --> 00:15:49,731
problem has reached
epidemic proportions.

336
00:15:49,774 --> 00:15:51,820
The curve on the growth
of credit card debt,

337
00:15:51,863 --> 00:15:53,517
even though it's
been ridiculous, has

338
00:15:53,561 --> 00:15:55,737
been much more gentle
than the curve on

339
00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:57,521
student loan debt.

340
00:15:57,565 --> 00:16:00,524
It's gone to a mushroom cloud in
terms of the Mathematics of it.

341
00:16:00,568 --> 00:16:03,745
The problem is that you don't
register emotionally

342
00:16:03,788 --> 00:16:05,486
that it's money.

343
00:16:05,529 --> 00:16:07,836
I mean, when you borrow money,
to buy a $20,000 car,

344
00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:10,099
you have a completely different
emotional experience

345
00:16:10,143 --> 00:16:13,624
than if you write a check
or put down $20,000

346
00:16:13,668 --> 00:16:15,148
worth of Benjamins right there.

347
00:16:15,191 --> 00:16:17,715
You have an --
You have an emotional experience

348
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:19,979
that you do not have
when you just sign

349
00:16:20,022 --> 00:16:21,937
and go, "I think I can
make those payments."

350
00:16:21,981 --> 00:16:24,287
It's the same thing that
happens with student loans.

351
00:16:24,331 --> 00:16:27,682
SETH F: There's a whole lot
of people who have a big target

352
00:16:27,725 --> 00:16:31,077
on your back who view you
and your ability to take

353
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,690
on a ton of debt
as their chance to get rich.

354
00:16:36,821 --> 00:16:38,823
- College tuition
has risen enormously

355
00:16:38,867 --> 00:16:40,695
over the past five decades.

356
00:16:40,738 --> 00:16:43,263
Why would someone
pay for this?

357
00:16:43,306 --> 00:16:46,483
Well, everyone seems to agree
that graduating from college

358
00:16:46,527 --> 00:16:49,269
if a guarantee to a better life.

359
00:16:49,312 --> 00:16:51,836
So, it's no surprise
that the student debt level

360
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,187
has risen exponentially
as people

361
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:58,017
pursue their shot
at the American dream.

362
00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:01,020
But is the pay-off really there?

363
00:17:02,586 --> 00:17:04,458
When the student loan
program was first started

364
00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:07,591
by the government,
it had really good intentions.

365
00:17:07,635 --> 00:17:11,421
Students can only borrow up
to $1,000 a year for school.

366
00:17:11,465 --> 00:17:13,597
The expectation was,
as students completed

367
00:17:13,641 --> 00:17:16,122
their higher education,
they would in, in turn,

368
00:17:16,165 --> 00:17:19,386
contribute their knowledge
and skills back into society.

369
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:22,519
And the money for all
of this came directly

370
00:17:22,563 --> 00:17:24,173
from the U.S. Treasury.

371
00:17:24,217 --> 00:17:27,916
But as the demand for higher
education grew, so did tuition.

372
00:17:27,959 --> 00:17:30,875
Now, the government had
to open up the student

373
00:17:30,919 --> 00:17:32,181
loan program even more.

374
00:17:32,225 --> 00:17:34,792
So, they brought in the banks.

375
00:17:34,836 --> 00:17:36,968
That meant the government
didn't have to foot

376
00:17:37,012 --> 00:17:38,405
the initial bill anymore.

377
00:17:38,448 --> 00:17:40,624
But, they still guaranteed
the loans if the borrower

378
00:17:40,668 --> 00:17:42,496
couldn't pay it back.

379
00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:45,281
So the banks, they were getting
paid one way or the other.

380
00:17:45,325 --> 00:17:47,196
And on top of that
they got to collect

381
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,720
any and all interest
from the loans.

382
00:17:49,764 --> 00:17:54,290
In business,
this is called making a profit.

383
00:17:54,334 --> 00:17:55,813
So, fast forward.

384
00:17:55,857 --> 00:17:58,207
Tuition is still rising
because the demand for college

385
00:17:58,251 --> 00:18:01,950
wasn't slowing down, and the
banks, they couldn't keep up.

386
00:18:01,993 --> 00:18:04,387
This is where the government
stepped in and created

387
00:18:04,431 --> 00:18:07,782
the Student Loan
Marketing Association.

388
00:18:07,825 --> 00:18:11,612
More conveniently
known as "SallieMae."

389
00:18:11,655 --> 00:18:13,440
As a government
sponsored enterprise,

390
00:18:13,483 --> 00:18:16,138
they were designed to
fund the money into the

391
00:18:16,182 --> 00:18:17,574
student loan program.

392
00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,272
They would buy the loans
from the banks which allowed

393
00:18:19,315 --> 00:18:22,884
the banks the cash flow
to issue more loans.

394
00:18:22,927 --> 00:18:27,193
And over the next two decades,
SallieMae became a major player

395
00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:29,325
in the student loan market.

396
00:18:29,369 --> 00:18:33,634
But in 2004, SallieMae cut their
strings from the government

397
00:18:33,677 --> 00:18:36,289
and became
a fully private company,

398
00:18:36,332 --> 00:18:39,944
and this meant
they were a real business.

399
00:18:39,988 --> 00:18:42,817
A business that exists
for one thing.

400
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:44,775
To make a profit.

401
00:18:44,819 --> 00:18:46,690
This is where
the student loan program

402
00:18:46,734 --> 00:18:51,260
went from being
a public good to big money.

403
00:18:51,304 --> 00:18:55,569
Actually, this isn't
even a program anymore.

404
00:18:57,179 --> 00:18:59,486
It's an industry.

405
00:19:00,922 --> 00:19:03,794
The real nail in the coffin
though came a year later

406
00:19:03,838 --> 00:19:05,840
when SallieMae convinced
congress to make

407
00:19:05,883 --> 00:19:08,103
private student loans
nearly impossible

408
00:19:08,147 --> 00:19:10,714
to discharge through bankruptcy.

409
00:19:10,758 --> 00:19:12,847
This has resulted
in growing default rates,

410
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:14,762
record amounts
of interest accumulated

411
00:19:14,805 --> 00:19:19,767
and dragged out repayment plans
that never go away.

412
00:19:19,810 --> 00:19:22,596
Now, we're left with entire
generations of people trapped

413
00:19:22,639 --> 00:19:25,642
in student loan debt, who
took it on in hopes of making

414
00:19:25,686 --> 00:19:27,644
a better life for themselves.

415
00:19:27,688 --> 00:19:30,430
Because that was the original
goal for all of this.

416
00:19:30,473 --> 00:19:33,563
But it's companies like
SallieMae, Navient, Great Lakes,

417
00:19:33,607 --> 00:19:37,480
Pheaa, Osla, Nelnet,
and countless others

418
00:19:37,524 --> 00:19:40,396
who's pockets are overflowing
with the money your future

419
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,009
was supposed to be built on.

420
00:19:45,053 --> 00:19:48,883
So, with over 45 million
Americans sharing

421
00:19:48,926 --> 00:19:53,931
this 1.6 trillion dollars
of student loan debt,

422
00:19:53,975 --> 00:19:56,195
the question still remains.

423
00:19:56,238 --> 00:19:58,414
LACY YOUNG: Hey guys!

424
00:19:58,458 --> 00:19:59,502
It's Lacy!

425
00:19:59,546 --> 00:20:02,505
And, I am broke as [bleep].

426
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:09,338
GUY: $200,000 --
LADY: $172,000 in debt.

427
00:20:09,382 --> 00:20:11,384
GUY: I went to
a regular-ass state school.

428
00:20:11,427 --> 00:20:16,171
LADY 2: I have only
paid off $7,231.11.

429
00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:19,435
How much interest have
I paid in 13 years.

430
00:20:19,479 --> 00:20:21,742
$19,030.27.

431
00:20:21,785 --> 00:20:26,399
Holy [bleep].

432
00:20:26,442 --> 00:20:27,835
LADY 3: I got in there
one day, and they said,

433
00:20:27,878 --> 00:20:30,925
"Your loans would be
forgiven if you die."

434
00:20:30,968 --> 00:20:33,014
Oh. That's nice.

435
00:20:49,204 --> 00:20:50,684
AMARI: So, I feel like
my time in college

436
00:20:50,727 --> 00:20:54,470
wasn't really the ideal picture
that I had of college.

437
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,082
I felt like college
was supposed to be fun,

438
00:20:58,126 --> 00:21:00,302
and the time
that you're away from parents

439
00:21:00,346 --> 00:21:03,000
and rules and can make
your own decisions.

440
00:21:03,044 --> 00:21:06,439
But, my college
was pretty much filled with

441
00:21:06,482 --> 00:21:16,013
how am I gonna make sure
I'm stable?

442
00:21:16,057 --> 00:21:23,369
[soft dramatic strings]
AMARI: My view was like

443
00:21:23,412 --> 00:21:24,195
"It's not the end of the world.

444
00:21:24,239 --> 00:21:25,109
It's normal.

445
00:21:25,153 --> 00:21:27,198
It's life to have debt.

446
00:21:27,242 --> 00:21:28,548
Everyone has debt.

447
00:21:28,591 --> 00:21:29,984
Everyone has it!

448
00:21:30,027 --> 00:21:30,811
So, it was fine.

449
00:21:30,854 --> 00:21:31,551
Brush it off.

450
00:21:31,594 --> 00:21:33,770
Don't worry about it."

451
00:21:33,814 --> 00:21:37,992
[soft dramatic strings]
When, I got my final

452
00:21:38,035 --> 00:21:40,908
finished-aid report,
and I seen how much

453
00:21:40,951 --> 00:21:45,129
more money I needed,
you can't start class if you

454
00:21:45,173 --> 00:21:46,740
don't have a zero-balance.

455
00:21:49,612 --> 00:21:52,659
I had to do something.

456
00:21:52,702 --> 00:21:55,836
I couldn't get that amount
of money from home.

457
00:21:55,879 --> 00:21:57,707
I talked to
the financial aid advisors

458
00:21:57,751 --> 00:22:05,628
that we have at our school
and they introduced me to loans.

459
00:22:05,672 --> 00:22:09,415
I did look at it as an
investment for myself,

460
00:22:09,458 --> 00:22:11,242
like it's okay.

461
00:22:11,286 --> 00:22:15,508
But then, once I realize I had
to continue to take things out,

462
00:22:15,551 --> 00:22:20,904
it was like, "Okay,
wow, this is, like,

463
00:22:20,948 --> 00:22:23,690
adding up very quickly."

464
00:22:23,733 --> 00:22:29,260
It became a thing of like,
dreading the fact

465
00:22:29,304 --> 00:22:35,484
that I'm gonna owe so much money
when I get outta school!

466
00:22:35,528 --> 00:22:41,142
[dramatic piano music]
That is when it like,

467
00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:42,491
hit me the hardest.

468
00:22:42,535 --> 00:22:44,406
It's like you don't
wanna have to be in debt.

469
00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:45,929
So it's like you gotta
comfort yourself

470
00:22:45,973 --> 00:22:49,803
with the notion that it's
normal. But you don't want it.

471
00:22:49,846 --> 00:22:54,242
So, it's like a constant, like,
dissonance and conflict

472
00:22:54,285 --> 00:22:55,678
going on through your whole
collegiate career,

473
00:22:55,722 --> 00:22:57,941
because it's like
"Yeah, I'm excelling

474
00:22:57,985 --> 00:22:59,682
as far as I'm getting
a high education,

475
00:22:59,726 --> 00:23:04,600
but at the same time, I'm gonna
be just like everyone else,

476
00:23:04,644 --> 00:23:07,908
working to pay off debt."

477
00:23:12,129 --> 00:23:18,440
[soft dramatic music]
KRISTINA ELLIS: The weight that

478
00:23:18,484 --> 00:23:21,443
people feel from this decision,
they haven't even

479
00:23:21,487 --> 00:23:23,532
made their first rent
payment on an apartment.

480
00:23:23,576 --> 00:23:27,231
They haven't had to own bank
account, for a lot of students.

481
00:23:27,275 --> 00:23:31,279
Like the pre-frontal cortex
isn't even fully developed yet.

482
00:23:31,322 --> 00:23:34,587
And yet we're saying, "Do you
want $50,000 in student loans?"

483
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:38,286
That's a lot to put on
an 18-year-old,

484
00:23:38,329 --> 00:23:40,114
especially when
you have well- respected

485
00:23:40,157 --> 00:23:42,029
adults working at banks,
or admissions offices

486
00:23:42,072 --> 00:23:43,073
sayings, "You know, hey!

487
00:23:43,117 --> 00:23:44,074
This is a great thing.

488
00:23:44,118 --> 00:23:45,206
Just take out this loan.

489
00:23:45,249 --> 00:23:46,860
It's no big deal!"

490
00:23:46,903 --> 00:23:50,211
People shouldn't leave college
in chains from the decision

491
00:23:50,254 --> 00:23:54,041
to get an education that helps
them contribute to society.

492
00:23:54,084 --> 00:23:55,651
That is a good thing.

493
00:23:55,695 --> 00:23:59,263
It's really sad to see people
struggle as a result

494
00:23:59,307 --> 00:24:03,442
of this great decision
to get an education.

495
00:24:05,792 --> 00:24:08,882
JOSIAH: And add another
one to the list.

496
00:24:08,925 --> 00:24:10,361
They said some of these other
bills were going to be

497
00:24:10,405 --> 00:24:12,668
a little bit lower,
but, you never know.

498
00:24:12,712 --> 00:24:14,278
So, we might even have
additional stuff too, so,

499
00:24:14,322 --> 00:24:17,499
cut back on groceries.

500
00:24:17,543 --> 00:24:19,458
So, if we could change --
What do we need --

501
00:24:19,501 --> 00:24:21,068
We need about $60, $80...

502
00:24:21,111 --> 00:24:23,505
If we could change this --
COURTNEY: You would think, "Oh,

503
00:24:23,549 --> 00:24:25,333
I have a house, we have a car,
we have jobs --

504
00:24:25,376 --> 00:24:26,421
Like, we're fine.

505
00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:28,597
We're the average
American." But, we

506
00:24:28,641 --> 00:24:30,469
weren't making ends meet.

507
00:24:30,512 --> 00:24:32,035
JOSIAH: We were living
paycheck to paycheck,

508
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:35,822
and I thought
I made a decent salary.

509
00:24:35,865 --> 00:24:38,433
Well we could get
the taxes this month,

510
00:24:38,477 --> 00:24:44,178
that puts us at about $20 short.

511
00:24:44,221 --> 00:24:46,180
So, if I donate plasma
like another time,

512
00:24:46,223 --> 00:24:48,835
that's another $20
or $60 or so.

513
00:24:48,878 --> 00:24:56,582
Depending on which on it is --

514
00:24:56,625 --> 00:25:03,284
JOSIAH: We are on our way
to Lima to donate plasma.

515
00:25:03,327 --> 00:25:07,767
It's something that I do usually
every Tuesday and Thursday,

516
00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:08,855
after football practice.

517
00:25:08,898 --> 00:25:09,856
[whistle blowing]
JOSIAH: White!

518
00:25:09,899 --> 00:25:10,465
Drive it, man!

519
00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:11,858
Drive it!

520
00:25:11,901 --> 00:25:12,902
Split.

521
00:25:12,946 --> 00:25:14,730
Outside, linebackers,
widen out.

522
00:25:14,774 --> 00:25:16,340
-- have to stay in still.

523
00:25:16,384 --> 00:25:17,864
Quarterback is still your guy,
cause if they do a cross --

524
00:25:17,907 --> 00:25:21,345
I don't get home till
about eight or so, but,

525
00:25:21,389 --> 00:25:25,741
gotta make us
a little extra money somehow.

526
00:25:25,785 --> 00:25:28,614
And that money I make during
the month, our donating

527
00:25:28,657 --> 00:25:32,574
is a big difference in my life.

528
00:25:32,618 --> 00:25:36,491
People say, like I go through
a crazy schedule, but you know.

529
00:25:36,535 --> 00:25:41,931
I've left Courtney at home
for the last 12+ hours.

530
00:25:41,975 --> 00:25:45,500
I've worked and worked and
worked at a job I didn't like.

531
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:47,197
But, I had no choice.

532
00:25:47,241 --> 00:25:50,157
I had student loan
payments to make.

533
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,376
I didn't make enough money
to pay it off in 15 years

534
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:55,597
like the plan they wanted me to.

535
00:25:55,641 --> 00:25:59,122
It's gonna take me
30 years to pay off.

536
00:25:59,166 --> 00:26:01,560
I took up credit cards when I
was out of college because,

537
00:26:01,603 --> 00:26:03,300
that's what you do.

538
00:26:03,344 --> 00:26:05,999
I still had a car
payment that time too.

539
00:26:06,042 --> 00:26:09,829
I was broken.

540
00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:13,789
I'm paying all these bills
and I have nothing.

541
00:26:16,966 --> 00:26:18,446
ANTHONY: I want you
to be successful.

542
00:26:18,489 --> 00:26:20,535
I want each and every
one of you all to go

543
00:26:20,579 --> 00:26:21,928
after the American dream.

544
00:26:21,971 --> 00:26:23,494
But I gotta ask you this
question, what is one thing

545
00:26:23,538 --> 00:26:26,454
that could stop your dreams?

546
00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:27,194
CAMRYNN: Debt.

547
00:26:27,237 --> 00:26:27,977
ANTHONY: Say that again?

548
00:26:28,021 --> 00:26:28,761
CAMRYNN: Debt.

549
00:26:28,804 --> 00:26:29,326
ANTHONY: One more time?

550
00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:30,197
CAMRYNN: Debt.

551
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,720
ANTHONY: My man!

552
00:26:31,764 --> 00:26:35,550
You gotta take debt
off of the table.

553
00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:37,552
I'd rather take six years
to graduate debt free

554
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:39,728
than to graduate in four
and spend the next 30 years

555
00:26:39,772 --> 00:26:41,948
paying back my student loans.

556
00:26:41,991 --> 00:26:43,471
Let's be real!

557
00:26:43,514 --> 00:26:45,647
If all of you all went
to college, didn't listen

558
00:26:45,691 --> 00:26:48,171
to my advice today,
two of you all will

559
00:26:48,215 --> 00:26:52,828
graduate from this table
with $100,000 or more in debt.

560
00:26:52,872 --> 00:26:55,526
Studies are showing
that the average person

561
00:26:55,570 --> 00:26:58,399
takes some 20 years
to pay back their student

562
00:26:58,442 --> 00:26:59,922
loan debt. Lemme go deeper.

563
00:26:59,966 --> 00:27:02,272
Studies are showing that y'all
right here, young people,

564
00:27:02,316 --> 00:27:05,624
when you graduate college,
the number one goal in life

565
00:27:05,667 --> 00:27:08,278
is not to get your dream job.

566
00:27:08,322 --> 00:27:10,237
The number one goal in life is,
when you graduate college,

567
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240
is not to go out there
and buy you a nice car.

568
00:27:13,283 --> 00:27:15,982
It's not to go out there to buy
a house and start a family.

569
00:27:16,025 --> 00:27:18,767
You know what the number one
goal is for college people

570
00:27:18,811 --> 00:27:20,595
who are just now graduating?

571
00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:22,466
ALL: Pay off student loans.

572
00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:26,514
ANTHONY: Is that
the American dream? No!

573
00:27:26,557 --> 00:27:29,517
The number one mistake I see
with your generation is,

574
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,259
you take a kid's approach
to an adult decision.

575
00:27:48,275 --> 00:27:50,451
DAVID WILSON: It's funny,
talking with my mom

576
00:27:50,494 --> 00:27:53,715
and getting her story of,
"You know, I went to

577
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:55,064
college for $4,000!"

578
00:27:55,108 --> 00:27:57,110
And thinking to myself,
that's cool,

579
00:27:57,153 --> 00:27:59,242
it's not that cheap now!

580
00:27:59,286 --> 00:28:04,291
[soft music]
Growing up, we were more

581
00:28:04,334 --> 00:28:06,380
in the lower middle class.

582
00:28:06,423 --> 00:28:10,340
Single mom who has two boys.

583
00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:14,344
You could tell that we didn't
have an endless supply of money.

584
00:28:14,388 --> 00:28:19,262
[soft music]
For college, I ended up opting

585
00:28:19,306 --> 00:28:22,265
to go the business route,
I saw what the financial

586
00:28:22,309 --> 00:28:25,181
situation was like,
and realized if I could

587
00:28:25,225 --> 00:28:28,924
create a business and grow that
and be able to give back,

588
00:28:28,968 --> 00:28:32,841
how much more of a difference
would that make if I could

589
00:28:32,885 --> 00:28:36,584
fund 20 of me to go to college.

590
00:28:36,627 --> 00:28:40,370
U of M, in Minnesota
was my big choice.

591
00:28:40,414 --> 00:28:43,069
It's a very large,
substantial campus.

592
00:28:43,112 --> 00:28:45,593
And you get this
sense of pride, you know,

593
00:28:45,636 --> 00:28:47,856
walking in that situation
knowing that this is where

594
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:50,903
I could be cutting my teeth
for going out

595
00:28:50,946 --> 00:28:53,122
in the real world.

596
00:28:53,166 --> 00:28:58,780
So, one day, go to
the mailbox, I got in!

597
00:28:58,824 --> 00:29:02,523
It's what I wanted, I was
totally set on going there,

598
00:29:02,566 --> 00:29:04,525
I done everything I needed
to up until that point.

599
00:29:04,568 --> 00:29:07,006
Basically I could coast
all my senior year, right?

600
00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:09,835
I made it to the next step.

601
00:29:09,878 --> 00:29:11,401
That's the funny part.

602
00:29:11,445 --> 00:29:14,013
They don't send the tuition
with the acceptance letter.

603
00:29:14,056 --> 00:29:15,492
That letter also had shock.

604
00:29:15,536 --> 00:29:17,059
When you open it up.

605
00:29:17,103 --> 00:29:22,499
You look at it,
and $22,000 a year.

606
00:29:22,543 --> 00:29:28,331
At that time, I'm driving
a car I paid $600 for.

607
00:29:28,375 --> 00:29:31,160
I was totally ready
just to dive deep into debt

608
00:29:31,204 --> 00:29:34,598
because that's what
the journey looks like, right?

609
00:29:34,642 --> 00:29:36,296
That's what everyone
expects it to be.

610
00:29:36,339 --> 00:29:42,302
And, I was gonna be one of them.

611
00:29:42,345 --> 00:29:43,869
ANTHONY: What college
are you going to?

612
00:29:43,912 --> 00:29:45,218
KAMERON: I haven't
gotten like, my financial

613
00:29:45,261 --> 00:29:46,697
package for the college
I'm going to yet, but,

614
00:29:46,741 --> 00:29:47,873
Duke is my passion.

615
00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:49,483
ANTHONY: Why is Duke
your dream school?

616
00:29:49,526 --> 00:29:51,441
KAMERON: I've been
to the campus.

617
00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:53,661
I've toured and I fell
in love with it.

618
00:29:53,704 --> 00:29:56,055
ANTHONY: You fell
in love with -- ?

619
00:29:56,098 --> 00:29:58,927
KAMERON: Like the exp -- Like
the classes, the people there,

620
00:29:58,971 --> 00:30:01,974
the overall, like,
experience of being there.

621
00:30:02,017 --> 00:30:03,192
The connections.

622
00:30:03,236 --> 00:30:04,759
ANTHONY: How much is Duke
goin' to run you?

623
00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:06,413
KAMERON: Yearly, about 75?

624
00:30:06,456 --> 00:30:08,023
ANTHONY: Ooh, my Lord!

625
00:30:08,067 --> 00:30:13,768
KAMERON: [chuckling]

626
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:16,858
It's undergrad, so,
I'm still thinking about it --

627
00:30:16,902 --> 00:30:18,033
ANTHONY: Still?

628
00:30:18,077 --> 00:30:19,252
KAMERON: Yeah.

629
00:30:19,295 --> 00:30:20,644
ANTHONY: That's $300,000...

630
00:30:20,688 --> 00:30:22,559
KAMERON: Yeah, I know.

631
00:30:22,603 --> 00:30:24,257
ANTHONY: ...for a degree!

632
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:25,258
KAMERON: Yeah.

633
00:30:25,301 --> 00:30:26,215
ANTHONY: What about you?

634
00:30:26,259 --> 00:30:26,912
CECI: N.Y.U. really.

635
00:30:26,955 --> 00:30:27,521
ANTHONY: N.Y.U.?

636
00:30:27,564 --> 00:30:28,565
CECI: Yep.

637
00:30:28,609 --> 00:30:30,089
ANTHONY: Why is
that your school?

638
00:30:30,132 --> 00:30:32,526
CECI: Because it's like
saturated with music artists,

639
00:30:32,569 --> 00:30:34,789
with producers,
with opportunities

640
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:37,618
just out at every corner,
for music in particular.

641
00:30:37,661 --> 00:30:40,142
ANTHONY: How much is it?

642
00:30:40,186 --> 00:30:41,230
CECI: 75?

643
00:30:41,274 --> 00:30:44,799
ANTHONY: My gosh!

644
00:30:44,843 --> 00:30:46,061
$75,000?

645
00:30:46,105 --> 00:30:47,454
CECI: I'm gonna
reach for what I can.

646
00:30:47,497 --> 00:30:51,023
And if N.Y.U. is it,
then I'm gonna reach.

647
00:30:51,066 --> 00:30:52,981
Oh my gosh, that was
so serious, please stop.

648
00:30:53,025 --> 00:30:54,287
Don't leave the silence!

649
00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:56,680
ALL: [laughing]
CLAYTON: Okay, so, I toured

650
00:30:56,724 --> 00:30:59,596
Buffalo back in November,
and I don't know,

651
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,207
I feel like it'll be a lot like
high school as far as like,

652
00:31:01,250 --> 00:31:05,776
arriving, like, there --
Like I know, my parents

653
00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:07,691
talk about college
was like the best years

654
00:31:07,735 --> 00:31:09,171
of their lives and da-da-da.

655
00:31:09,215 --> 00:31:12,000
So, I feel like, the experiences
I'm gonna get at college

656
00:31:12,044 --> 00:31:14,960
are going to be like, unmatched.

657
00:31:15,003 --> 00:31:16,570
ANTHONY: So you're going
all the way to Buffalo State

658
00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:18,528
just to have an upgraded
high school experience?

659
00:31:18,572 --> 00:31:22,097
CLAYTON: [laughs] Yeah.

660
00:31:22,141 --> 00:31:24,621
Keyword, upgraded.

661
00:31:24,665 --> 00:31:27,407
SETH G: Well, if I
wanted to sell a college

662
00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:30,453
to the normal group
of semi-unmotivated,

663
00:31:30,497 --> 00:31:32,891
semi-uninformed people,
I would start

664
00:31:32,934 --> 00:31:34,240
with the football team.

665
00:31:34,283 --> 00:31:41,290
[marching band and cheering]
SETH G: I would move

666
00:31:41,334 --> 00:31:42,596
on to the parties.

667
00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:47,862
[celebratory music]
SETH G: I would then go

668
00:31:47,906 --> 00:31:50,125
on to shiny pictures of
people at graduation.

669
00:31:50,169 --> 00:31:51,257
WILL FERRELL: We are...

670
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:51,866
GRADUATES: SC!

671
00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:53,346
WILL: We are...

672
00:31:53,389 --> 00:31:54,434
GRADUATES: SC!

673
00:31:54,477 --> 00:31:56,305
I wouldn't mention student debt.

674
00:31:56,349 --> 00:32:01,006
I wouldn't mention all the hours
you have in-between class,

675
00:32:01,049 --> 00:32:04,748
because most colleges
aren't good at helping

676
00:32:04,792 --> 00:32:06,489
people through that.

677
00:32:06,533 --> 00:32:09,275
BRAD: Picking a school
is a complicated process

678
00:32:09,318 --> 00:32:12,843
between applications and essays
and costs and visitation

679
00:32:12,887 --> 00:32:17,979
and the stuff out there on the
web. It's just overwhelming.

680
00:32:18,023 --> 00:32:19,981
The average person
doesn't know what to look for.

681
00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:22,027
Cause this isn't their world.

682
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:24,203
And then, all of a sudden,
you get thrust into it,

683
00:32:24,246 --> 00:32:26,683
and it's information overload,
and how do you synthesize it

684
00:32:26,727 --> 00:32:29,121
into something that makes
a whole lot of sense?

685
00:32:29,164 --> 00:32:31,297
GAYLE KING: The new 30th edition
of "Best Colleges"

686
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:33,038
was just released this morning.

687
00:32:33,081 --> 00:32:34,474
We've got it.

688
00:32:34,517 --> 00:32:36,693
Brian Kelly's editor
of US News and World report.

689
00:32:36,737 --> 00:32:39,261
Good to see you again, Brian
Kelly. BRIAN KELLY: Hi.

690
00:32:39,305 --> 00:32:40,262
GAYLE: This is getting
to be an annual visit,

691
00:32:40,306 --> 00:32:41,742
and we like it!

692
00:32:41,785 --> 00:32:43,657
DR. JOHN: If you were to ask me,
what's the worst thing

693
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:45,224
that has happened
to higher education

694
00:32:45,267 --> 00:32:51,534
in the last 20 to 30 years,
I would say unabashedly,

695
00:32:51,578 --> 00:32:55,582
a fledgling magazine decided
to start ranking colleges.

696
00:32:55,625 --> 00:32:57,279
ANNE-MARIE GREEN: Which schools
would have the greatest chance

697
00:32:57,323 --> 00:32:59,325
of giving you
the American dream?

698
00:32:59,368 --> 00:33:01,544
BRIAN: Uh, the usual suspects I
would have to say are Princeton,

699
00:33:01,588 --> 00:33:04,417
Harvard, Yale, Columbia,
Stanford, are the top five.

700
00:33:04,460 --> 00:33:06,985
The whole world wants
to go to these places.

701
00:33:07,028 --> 00:33:08,508
DR. JOHN: Education
is a brand now.

702
00:33:08,551 --> 00:33:09,509
It's a label.

703
00:33:09,552 --> 00:33:11,206
It's an industry.

704
00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:13,078
SETH G: One of the things the US
News and World Report measures

705
00:33:13,121 --> 00:33:16,646
is the percentage of people
that college rejects.

706
00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:20,607
The more people you reject,
the better college you must be.

707
00:33:20,650 --> 00:33:22,087
BRIAN: I always look
at their alumni.

708
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:24,176
They have their
very loyal alumni.

709
00:33:24,219 --> 00:33:25,655
People who go
to Princeton love Princeton.

710
00:33:25,699 --> 00:33:26,526
They give it money.

711
00:33:26,569 --> 00:33:27,527
They come back.

712
00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:28,571
They stay engaged
with the school.

713
00:33:28,615 --> 00:33:30,225
That makes a difference.

714
00:33:30,269 --> 00:33:32,662
DR. JOHN: And then
they came with this ever

715
00:33:32,706 --> 00:33:33,968
evolving matrix of points.

716
00:33:34,012 --> 00:33:36,188
Really important things like,
your reputation.

717
00:33:36,231 --> 00:33:37,537
How other people
think about you.

718
00:33:37,580 --> 00:33:40,366
That turns into
a higher ed arms race.

719
00:33:40,409 --> 00:33:43,064
CLAYTON: It's like
Nikes versus Gucci.

720
00:33:43,108 --> 00:33:44,718
They're both shoes.

721
00:33:44,761 --> 00:33:47,590
They both work the same,
but one has more value

722
00:33:47,634 --> 00:33:48,896
because of the name.

723
00:33:48,939 --> 00:33:50,898
SETH G: Some colleges
figured out if they

724
00:33:50,941 --> 00:33:53,118
made their dorms nicer,
or their gyms fancier,

725
00:33:53,161 --> 00:33:55,033
more people would wanna come.

726
00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:56,295
SAVANNAH: What's up
with their dorms?

727
00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:57,383
What do they have?

728
00:33:57,426 --> 00:33:58,297
BRIAN: Beautiful campuses.

729
00:33:58,340 --> 00:33:59,254
10 different residence halls.

730
00:33:59,298 --> 00:34:00,473
There's a food service.

731
00:34:00,516 --> 00:34:01,778
It's pretty awe --
SAVANNAH: Looks nice!

732
00:34:01,822 --> 00:34:02,388
HODA KOTB: That's beautiful!

733
00:34:02,431 --> 00:34:03,563
SAVANNAH: Wow!

734
00:34:03,606 --> 00:34:04,868
SETH G: If more people
wanted to come,

735
00:34:04,912 --> 00:34:06,174
they discovered the US
News and World Report

736
00:34:06,218 --> 00:34:07,349
would rank them higher.

737
00:34:07,393 --> 00:34:08,524
NORAH O'DONNELL: Do
you accept bribes?

738
00:34:08,568 --> 00:34:11,092
[laughter]
BRIAN: Only very large ones!

739
00:34:11,136 --> 00:34:13,399
I have been lobbied by some of
the finest people in the world.

740
00:34:13,442 --> 00:34:15,314
SETH G: If US News
and Report rank them higher,

741
00:34:15,357 --> 00:34:16,837
more people wanted to come.

742
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,708
If more people wanted to come,
they could charge more,

743
00:34:18,752 --> 00:34:20,493
because their piece of paper
was worth more.

744
00:34:20,536 --> 00:34:22,625
So the ratchet kept turning.

745
00:34:22,669 --> 00:34:23,800
And it kept turning.

746
00:34:23,844 --> 00:34:25,106
And it kept turning.

747
00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:27,065
DR. JOHN: The parents
are demanding it.

748
00:34:27,108 --> 00:34:28,849
The college students
are demanding it.

749
00:34:28,892 --> 00:34:30,459
You have to build it!

750
00:34:30,503 --> 00:34:31,982
Otherwise, they won't
come because your college

751
00:34:32,026 --> 00:34:33,332
isn't good enough.

752
00:34:33,375 --> 00:34:35,551
SETH G: The idea,
that you could spend four years,

753
00:34:35,595 --> 00:34:38,293
not living at home, going
to class three hours a day,

754
00:34:38,337 --> 00:34:40,556
yeah, that's
the definition of privilege,

755
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,123
where ever you came from.

756
00:34:42,167 --> 00:34:43,385
HODA: Best campus food?

757
00:34:43,429 --> 00:34:44,386
ROBERT: It is fabulous.

758
00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:45,387
SAVANNAH & HODA: Wow!

759
00:34:46,301 --> 00:34:48,260
SETH G: So let's be
really clear,

760
00:34:48,303 --> 00:34:49,870
you shouldn't go
to a famous college.

761
00:34:49,913 --> 00:34:51,306
There should be no reason.

762
00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:55,223
I hope you go to a great
college, but I also know

763
00:34:55,267 --> 00:34:57,269
that some of the cheapest
colleges in America

764
00:34:57,312 --> 00:34:59,880
could be great
if you make 'em great.

765
00:34:59,923 --> 00:35:03,840
If you use your time there
to have a series of experiences

766
00:35:03,884 --> 00:35:05,973
to change your life
and other people's lives --

767
00:35:06,016 --> 00:35:07,322
'Cause that's what you get.

768
00:35:07,366 --> 00:35:09,716
You get four years
of freedom and leverage.

769
00:35:09,759 --> 00:35:11,239
What are you gonna do with it.

770
00:35:11,283 --> 00:35:12,719
Cause if all you're
doing is saying "I'm

771
00:35:12,762 --> 00:35:15,200
gonna give up four years
of my life, and all my money for

772
00:35:15,243 --> 00:35:17,985
a piece of paper at the end,"
well, it doesn't

773
00:35:18,028 --> 00:35:20,030
make sense to pay
what you're currently

774
00:35:20,074 --> 00:35:20,944
paying for the paper.

775
00:35:34,567 --> 00:35:37,700
DAVID: What really was apparent
to me was how much debt

776
00:35:37,744 --> 00:35:40,660
can be that ball
and chain on your ankle

777
00:35:40,703 --> 00:35:43,053
when you actually hop
into the real world.

778
00:35:43,097 --> 00:35:46,927
Once you can change that mental
state of debt actually

779
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:51,018
doesn't have to be an option,
I can do this a different way,

780
00:35:51,061 --> 00:35:55,240
there's a new found freedom
that comes with that.

781
00:35:55,283 --> 00:36:03,552
Going forward with school I knew
that I wanted to pay for it.

782
00:36:03,596 --> 00:36:05,511
Later on in my senior year
when I went and toured

783
00:36:05,554 --> 00:36:08,992
Wisconsin Lutheran College,
I went to the school

784
00:36:09,036 --> 00:36:11,821
with the mindset
that I'm gonna hate this.

785
00:36:11,865 --> 00:36:13,388
I was thinking,
"Am I shorting myself

786
00:36:13,432 --> 00:36:16,348
by going to a small school?

787
00:36:16,391 --> 00:36:19,220
Will I be able to get
the job I want to because

788
00:36:19,264 --> 00:36:23,572
I went to a no name school?"

789
00:36:23,616 --> 00:36:27,533
Everybody knows the University
of Wisconsin, the Badgers.

790
00:36:27,576 --> 00:36:31,101
[cheering]
How many people know

791
00:36:31,145 --> 00:36:32,929
the Wisconsin Lutheran
College Warriors?

792
00:36:32,973 --> 00:36:35,671
As exciting as D3 football is,
I knew we weren't gonna

793
00:36:35,715 --> 00:36:37,847
be known for that.

794
00:36:37,891 --> 00:36:41,024
But then, when that
tuition bill came,

795
00:36:41,068 --> 00:36:44,376
paired with some scholarships
that I earned in high school,

796
00:36:44,419 --> 00:36:47,596
meant I wouldn't be going
in debt my first year.

797
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,425
That was an eye opener.

798
00:36:50,469 --> 00:36:54,951
DAVE: I'm convinced that most
of the mistakes around college

799
00:36:54,995 --> 00:36:58,390
are simply college choice.

800
00:36:58,433 --> 00:37:01,219
It's that simple.

801
00:37:01,262 --> 00:37:05,179
30 years ago, the difference
in cost of a community college,

802
00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:08,400
a state school and a private
school was not a lot.

803
00:37:08,443 --> 00:37:11,185
And the difference
in what you got 30 years ago,

804
00:37:11,229 --> 00:37:14,014
in terms of the quality
of education was a lot.

805
00:37:14,057 --> 00:37:16,538
The weird thing is,
is that the quality of

806
00:37:16,582 --> 00:37:18,758
education has come up,
on the community

807
00:37:18,801 --> 00:37:21,891
college, so much, and on
the state school so much,

808
00:37:21,935 --> 00:37:25,591
that they're almost
all three parallel now.

809
00:37:25,634 --> 00:37:28,507
But, the cost went
dramatically different.

810
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:30,030
But here's the thing.

811
00:37:30,073 --> 00:37:33,294
A lot of people get
the basic knowledge of business.

812
00:37:33,338 --> 00:37:34,687
The basic knowledge
of a communication.

813
00:37:34,730 --> 00:37:36,384
The basic knowledge
in an I.T. field

814
00:37:36,428 --> 00:37:40,693
at a community college and get
a really good career out of it.

815
00:37:40,736 --> 00:37:43,217
Information is just
much more accessible now

816
00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:46,481
than it was 30 years ago
to the average person.

817
00:37:46,525 --> 00:37:47,830
SETH G: So let's talk
for a second

818
00:37:47,874 --> 00:37:50,572
about whether you should go
to college at all.

819
00:37:50,616 --> 00:37:52,531
Given that every
single course at M.I.T.

820
00:37:52,574 --> 00:37:56,709
is available on-line for free,
given that with motivation,

821
00:37:56,752 --> 00:38:00,974
you could cover four years of
college course work in a year,

822
00:38:01,017 --> 00:38:04,586
that there are ways
to cobble together

823
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:08,068
what you would learn in college
and even show up with a degree

824
00:38:08,111 --> 00:38:11,941
without going in the front door,
without paying full price.

825
00:38:11,985 --> 00:38:14,727
And the giant shift
that's happening is that

826
00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:18,339
the people who are hiring,
what they want from you is not

827
00:38:18,383 --> 00:38:21,734
that you went to a school
with a better reputation, or at

828
00:38:21,777 --> 00:38:23,301
least a better football team.

829
00:38:23,344 --> 00:38:26,956
What they want from you
is the real skills.

830
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,787
Creativity, honesty, directness,
leadership, resilience.

831
00:38:31,831 --> 00:38:34,442
And I think we gotta strip away
the easy and fun part,

832
00:38:34,486 --> 00:38:36,792
stop rewarding
it, stop confusing it

833
00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:39,447
with a useful signal,
and instead get back

834
00:38:39,491 --> 00:38:42,145
to the hard part which is,
how we're going

835
00:38:42,189 --> 00:38:44,060
to get productive,
generous human beings.

836
00:38:44,104 --> 00:38:48,326
[soft jazz music]
DEDAR HIMELDI: I'm not

837
00:38:48,369 --> 00:38:49,805
really going to college
to get my degree.

838
00:38:49,849 --> 00:38:51,198
I'm going to get the knowledge.

839
00:38:51,241 --> 00:38:54,027
So, my plan was to go
Cal Arts right?

840
00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:55,550
That's like,
the Harvard for animation.

841
00:38:55,594 --> 00:38:56,116
ANTHONY: It is.

842
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:57,117
DEDAR: Yeah.

843
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,466
And then,
I was like, "I'm set."

844
00:38:58,510 --> 00:39:00,425
But then, two schools
here have animation pr --

845
00:39:00,468 --> 00:39:01,382
so I was like, you know?

846
00:39:01,426 --> 00:39:02,818
Might as well.

847
00:39:02,862 --> 00:39:04,298
I go and check out Lipscomb's
animation program.

848
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:08,389
And it's the -- the professors
are Disney animators.

849
00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:10,739
So it's like, what I'm getting
here in my home state,

850
00:39:10,783 --> 00:39:13,916
and home city, is
like, for free.

851
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,441
Instead of like getting
into $400k debt.

852
00:39:16,484 --> 00:39:17,529
ANTHONY: Right.

853
00:39:17,572 --> 00:39:18,573
DEDAR: It's like,
why would I not?

854
00:39:18,617 --> 00:39:19,269
You know?

855
00:39:19,313 --> 00:39:20,923
ANTHONY: Wow.

856
00:39:20,967 --> 00:39:26,973
So you turned down, the Harvard
of animation to come here.

857
00:39:27,016 --> 00:39:28,104
DEDAR: Turned down the chance.

858
00:39:28,148 --> 00:39:28,670
Yeah.

859
00:39:28,714 --> 00:39:29,932
ANTHONY: Okay.

860
00:39:29,976 --> 00:39:32,631
You're banking
on student loans and work,

861
00:39:32,674 --> 00:39:36,025
if not, sounds like you may
not be going to school.

862
00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:39,594
CLAYTON: That's the reality
I've come to face this year.

863
00:39:39,638 --> 00:39:42,292
ANTHONY: You still might
not be able to go to school,

864
00:39:42,336 --> 00:39:46,253
or your dream school?

865
00:39:46,296 --> 00:39:48,864
CLAYTON: I wanna be able
to be comfortable at school.

866
00:39:48,908 --> 00:39:52,259
Like, if I don't go
to my dream school.

867
00:39:52,302 --> 00:39:54,392
Cause I've picked my dream
schools to be the schools

868
00:39:54,435 --> 00:39:56,568
that I would be happy at.

869
00:39:56,611 --> 00:40:00,006
That I would be comfortable at.

870
00:40:00,049 --> 00:40:01,790
ANTHONY: Why?

871
00:40:01,834 --> 00:40:04,402
CLAYTON: It's like the price you
pay for certain things in life.

872
00:40:04,445 --> 00:40:07,013
Because I could skip
out on college, and go

873
00:40:07,056 --> 00:40:08,362
work a full-time job.

874
00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:10,756
Won't have any debt,
but I won't be happy.

875
00:40:10,799 --> 00:40:14,324
Can't come up with
$13,000 a year, so --

876
00:40:14,368 --> 00:40:15,630
ANTHONY: You can't?

877
00:40:15,674 --> 00:40:16,588
ALL: No.

878
00:40:16,631 --> 00:40:21,288
[chuckling]

879
00:40:21,331 --> 00:40:29,514
[ominous music]
DAVID: I honestly didn't

880
00:40:29,557 --> 00:40:33,431
know how I was gonna
pay for year number two.

881
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:35,302
I -- You go through
the first year of bliss,

882
00:40:35,345 --> 00:40:37,783
but when the tuition bill
hits and you get that

883
00:40:37,826 --> 00:40:39,654
letter in your mailbox
that says tuition

884
00:40:39,698 --> 00:40:43,876
is going up for next year,
no one wants to pay

885
00:40:43,919 --> 00:40:46,182
more money for school.

886
00:40:46,226 --> 00:40:49,664
I was fully prepared
to take a gap year, or

887
00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:52,711
do anything to avoid
having debt my second year,

888
00:40:52,754 --> 00:40:53,668
and continuing on.

889
00:40:55,844 --> 00:40:57,846
KATIE COURIC: College
tuition can now cost

890
00:40:57,890 --> 00:41:01,720
as much as $50,000 a year,
but luckily one woman

891
00:41:01,763 --> 00:41:04,592
says she's figured out
how to get a college

892
00:41:04,636 --> 00:41:06,333
education for free.

893
00:41:06,376 --> 00:41:08,988
Kristina Ellis earned half a
million dollars in scholarships

894
00:41:09,031 --> 00:41:11,643
and is the author
of "Confessions of a

895
00:41:11,686 --> 00:41:13,209
Scholarship Winner,"
welcome Kristina!

896
00:41:13,253 --> 00:41:15,298
Nice to see you.

897
00:41:15,342 --> 00:41:17,475
KRISTINA: A lot of times when
people hear that I won a half

898
00:41:17,518 --> 00:41:19,172
a million dollars
in scholarships, they

899
00:41:19,215 --> 00:41:21,522
sometimes assume that like,
I just got to pocket

900
00:41:21,566 --> 00:41:23,045
anything that I didn't use.

901
00:41:23,089 --> 00:41:24,743
They're like, "Where's
the car that you bought."

902
00:41:24,786 --> 00:41:28,050
And it's like, "No,
that's not how it works."

903
00:41:28,094 --> 00:41:30,662
That being said, a really
cool thing about pushing

904
00:41:30,705 --> 00:41:32,577
for a lot of scholarships
is that you can actually

905
00:41:32,620 --> 00:41:33,882
get a refund check.

906
00:41:33,926 --> 00:41:35,580
If you live off-campus,
I would actually get

907
00:41:35,623 --> 00:41:37,625
like a $10,000 check
each semester to be able

908
00:41:37,669 --> 00:41:40,323
to pay for my housing
and my books and meals

909
00:41:40,367 --> 00:41:42,412
and transportation, so,
winning scholarships can allow

910
00:41:42,456 --> 00:41:45,198
you to have a lot of freedom
and flexibility with

911
00:41:45,241 --> 00:41:47,766
how you live your life
while you're in college.

912
00:41:47,809 --> 00:41:49,202
ANTHONY: Well, what are your
thoughts on scholarships?

913
00:41:49,245 --> 00:41:51,117
Are you all currently
applying for any right now?

914
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,728
KAMERON: Yes, and it's like,
I don't know where to look.

915
00:41:53,772 --> 00:41:55,774
And it's really
overwhelming because you

916
00:41:55,817 --> 00:41:57,340
hit so many dead-ends.

917
00:41:57,384 --> 00:41:59,691
CLAYTON: It's like 10 million
scholarships, it's just --

918
00:41:59,734 --> 00:42:00,561
It's overwhelming.

919
00:42:00,605 --> 00:42:02,128
It's stressful.

920
00:42:02,171 --> 00:42:04,260
KAMERON: I went to the library
and got scholarship books

921
00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:05,435
and they're garbage.

922
00:42:05,479 --> 00:42:08,047
Like, I'm trying.

923
00:42:08,090 --> 00:42:09,875
ANTHONY: Alright.

924
00:42:09,918 --> 00:42:12,486
AMARI: I was aware
about scholarships.

925
00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:16,316
Honestly, they
were just a hassle.

926
00:42:16,359 --> 00:42:18,797
It's just too many
non-guarantees in there

927
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,842
when I could be working.

928
00:42:20,886 --> 00:42:25,107
Because most of them only
range from like $200 - $1000,

929
00:42:25,151 --> 00:42:29,285
and that doesn't even put
a thump in how much tuition is

930
00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:31,592
at most universities.

931
00:42:31,636 --> 00:42:35,944
[soft music]
KRISTINA: I think it's great

932
00:42:35,988 --> 00:42:37,293
to have the conversation
about scholarships

933
00:42:37,337 --> 00:42:38,730
your freshman year.

934
00:42:38,773 --> 00:42:41,254
Because it gives students time
to develop a resume

935
00:42:41,297 --> 00:42:44,257
without a lot of pressure.

936
00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:46,607
That being said, a
lot of students think

937
00:42:46,651 --> 00:42:48,957
that it's too late
to apply for scholarships

938
00:42:49,001 --> 00:42:51,612
if they already started college,
and that's just not true.

939
00:42:51,656 --> 00:42:53,962
There are scholarships
that are available for students

940
00:42:54,006 --> 00:42:56,269
all throughout
their college experience.

941
00:42:57,487 --> 00:42:59,185
ANTHONY: The gap is,
really, there's a lack

942
00:42:59,228 --> 00:43:01,491
of financial education
inside of our schools.

943
00:43:01,535 --> 00:43:04,146
And then, too,
there's just a lack of wise

944
00:43:04,190 --> 00:43:06,409
council along this journey,
and were not taking the time

945
00:43:06,453 --> 00:43:08,020
to teach our young people
to step back

946
00:43:08,063 --> 00:43:10,631
and to do the research --

947
00:43:10,675 --> 00:43:14,113
KRISTINA: If you spent two hours
filling out an application

948
00:43:14,156 --> 00:43:16,724
that allows you
to win a $1000 scholarship,

949
00:43:16,768 --> 00:43:19,161
that's like making $500 an hour.

950
00:43:19,205 --> 00:43:20,510
That is significant.

951
00:43:20,554 --> 00:43:23,949
I mean, what other
part time job in high school

952
00:43:23,992 --> 00:43:26,386
are you gonna find
that makes that amount of money?

953
00:43:26,429 --> 00:43:28,867
DAVID: I decided I wanna make
looking at scholarships

954
00:43:28,910 --> 00:43:30,869
like my full-time job.

955
00:43:30,912 --> 00:43:33,654
If I just hit one of those
$500 scholarships

956
00:43:33,698 --> 00:43:37,484
after applying for ten of them,
it's still worthwhile.

957
00:43:37,527 --> 00:43:40,052
KRISTINA: So much of it is about
habits and just getting

958
00:43:40,095 --> 00:43:43,664
in a groove of consistently
putting in the effort.

959
00:43:43,708 --> 00:43:45,710
It doesn't have
to be so overwhelming

960
00:43:45,753 --> 00:43:49,104
if you just break it down
into just manageable steps.

961
00:43:49,148 --> 00:43:51,193
ANTHONY: You may have
to come home, spend two hours --

962
00:43:51,237 --> 00:43:53,282
Spend three hours
on the internet, grinding.

963
00:43:53,326 --> 00:43:56,938
You may get a lot of no's, but
that one yes, that second yes,

964
00:43:56,982 --> 00:44:01,247
that third yes, is gonna be
worth all the no's that you got.

965
00:44:01,290 --> 00:44:04,076
Scholarships are
a great opportunity.

966
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:08,689
[soft dramatic music]
KRISTINA: There are millions

967
00:44:08,733 --> 00:44:10,952
of scholarships given away,
every single year

968
00:44:10,996 --> 00:44:12,998
for so many different reasons.

969
00:44:13,041 --> 00:44:16,828
You can get a scholarship
for being tall, for being short,

970
00:44:16,871 --> 00:44:18,394
there's a vegetarian
scholarship.

971
00:44:18,438 --> 00:44:20,745
There's a scholarship
for being a golf caddy,

972
00:44:20,788 --> 00:44:24,052
for having the best
zombie apocalypse escape plan.

973
00:44:24,096 --> 00:44:29,841
The criteria so broad that it's
a numbers game in many senses.

974
00:44:29,884 --> 00:44:31,538
Don't write off
the $500 scholarship.

975
00:44:31,581 --> 00:44:33,366
Don't write off
the $1000 scholarship,

976
00:44:33,409 --> 00:44:35,847
because those are often where
students find the most success.

977
00:44:37,457 --> 00:44:40,460
DAVID: There are some I didn't
find out until the last second.

978
00:44:40,503 --> 00:44:42,462
And there some that I
got, that I didn't even

979
00:44:42,505 --> 00:44:43,637
know I was going to get.

980
00:44:46,988 --> 00:44:49,730
KRISTINA: If you are still
enrolled in a university,

981
00:44:49,774 --> 00:44:51,253
you should still do
your research and try

982
00:44:51,297 --> 00:44:52,515
to find scholarships.

983
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:54,387
If you are currently
taking out student loans

984
00:44:54,430 --> 00:44:58,130
to get through school,
take a moment to do some

985
00:44:58,173 --> 00:45:01,176
research and see the
vast options available.

986
00:45:01,220 --> 00:45:03,483
DAVE: Where you do not have set
goals, and you do not go through

987
00:45:03,526 --> 00:45:06,225
a series of behaviors
with intentionality

988
00:45:06,268 --> 00:45:08,967
you are never going
to be, in that area of

989
00:45:09,010 --> 00:45:10,055
your life, successful.

990
00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:11,752
And college is no
exception to that.

991
00:45:11,796 --> 00:45:14,842
ANTHONY: Every single day,
you're being intentional

992
00:45:14,886 --> 00:45:16,626
about the decisions
you make that's going

993
00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:18,846
to get you in college
and through college

994
00:45:18,890 --> 00:45:20,282
without borrowing a dime.

995
00:45:20,326 --> 00:45:26,549
[soft dramatic music]

996
00:45:26,593 --> 00:45:28,900
ELEVATOR: Going down.

997
00:45:28,943 --> 00:45:30,858
[beeping]
AMARI: It sets in once

998
00:45:30,902 --> 00:45:32,164
you apply for graduation.

999
00:45:32,207 --> 00:45:34,644
It's like "Okay,
I will no longer be in school,

1000
00:45:34,688 --> 00:45:39,606
so I no longer have
that crutch of putting off."

1001
00:45:39,649 --> 00:45:41,608
Because now at this
point, I am gonna have

1002
00:45:41,651 --> 00:45:44,785
to come up with a plan
as to when I'm gonna

1003
00:45:44,829 --> 00:45:47,527
start paying it back off,
how much I'm gonna have

1004
00:45:47,570 --> 00:45:49,703
to start paying back off,
and what I can even

1005
00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:51,226
afford to pay back off.

1006
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:53,881
And, there's a bunch of stuff
that comes with adulthood

1007
00:45:53,925 --> 00:45:56,579
that you just don't account for.

1008
00:45:56,623 --> 00:45:59,539
It does kinda make
me worry about what I'm

1009
00:45:59,582 --> 00:46:01,323
gonna do then. You know?

1010
00:46:01,367 --> 00:46:03,761
Like, I don't wanna be still
paying back student loans

1011
00:46:03,804 --> 00:46:06,807
when I'm supposed
to be nearing retirement.

1012
00:46:06,851 --> 00:46:08,896
But, being realistic in life,
looking at it, it's like,

1013
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:14,641
well, maybe I won't be because
$13,000 could turn into $25,000

1014
00:46:14,684 --> 00:46:18,340
easily depending
on how I manage that.

1015
00:46:18,384 --> 00:46:22,780
Because it's a lot of my peers
who leave a four year university

1016
00:46:22,823 --> 00:46:25,913
and still don't have
a job for six months.

1017
00:46:25,957 --> 00:46:28,046
And that's when
you have to start paying

1018
00:46:28,089 --> 00:46:29,134
back your student loans!

1019
00:46:29,177 --> 00:46:30,265
So it's like, what do you do?

1020
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:40,319
[soft dramatic music]

1021
00:46:41,450 --> 00:46:45,585
COURTNEY: Moving to Van Wert,
we tried buying a home.

1022
00:46:45,628 --> 00:46:49,415
Like it wasn't a very nice home,
but it was in well means.

1023
00:46:49,458 --> 00:46:54,246
And, we applied
for a loan and got denied.

1024
00:46:54,289 --> 00:46:55,943
Definitely like,
put us in perspective, like,

1025
00:46:55,987 --> 00:46:58,250
we would never get a house.

1026
00:46:58,293 --> 00:47:02,210
We wouldn't be able to
have kids. We're not

1027
00:47:02,254 --> 00:47:04,560
gonna be able to live.

1028
00:47:04,604 --> 00:47:09,304
JOSIAH: We had a point in time
where we actually

1029
00:47:09,348 --> 00:47:11,916
did not go shopping
for a full month.

1030
00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:15,397
And we didn't have food
outside of basically

1031
00:47:15,441 --> 00:47:19,749
some boxes of pasta,
and, like, watered down

1032
00:47:19,793 --> 00:47:22,840
spaghetti sauce,
'cause we did not have enough

1033
00:47:22,883 --> 00:47:28,323
money to literally go for --
to buy groceries.

1034
00:47:28,367 --> 00:47:30,935
And that's with every
credit card maxed

1035
00:47:30,978 --> 00:47:33,851
out, everything, like,
just literally backs to the

1036
00:47:33,894 --> 00:47:35,809
wall, pinned up against it.

1037
00:47:35,853 --> 00:47:38,812
COURTNEY: Like, we've
officially hit rock bottom.

1038
00:47:40,248 --> 00:47:43,904
JOSIAH: I had just looked
back at that money I owe,

1039
00:47:43,948 --> 00:47:46,385
and realize, what did
it actually get me.

1040
00:47:46,428 --> 00:47:48,691
I know it got me
a college degree.

1041
00:47:48,735 --> 00:47:51,869
And I know it got
me experiences, but

1042
00:47:51,912 --> 00:47:54,828
is a college degree
and experiences

1043
00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:56,264
worth $125,000?

1044
00:47:57,526 --> 00:48:00,921
DR. JOHN: We don't think
anymore. We just do.

1045
00:48:00,965 --> 00:48:03,315
So much of our mental health
challenges in this country

1046
00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:06,840
are because we let our feelings
and our emotions drive our day.

1047
00:48:06,884 --> 00:48:09,756
College choice is no difference.

1048
00:48:09,799 --> 00:48:12,367
We've gotten so
unintentional about it.

1049
00:48:12,411 --> 00:48:15,022
And then we figure out
how we pay for it later.

1050
00:48:15,066 --> 00:48:17,633
Now we blinked and there's
a couple of trillion of dollars

1051
00:48:17,677 --> 00:48:21,942
floating around out there
on the backs of 19, 20,

1052
00:48:21,986 --> 00:48:23,335
25-year-olds, 40-year-olds.

1053
00:48:23,378 --> 00:48:24,945
It just comes like
a car payment, like a mortgage.

1054
00:48:24,989 --> 00:48:26,425
That's just a payment we have.

1055
00:48:26,468 --> 00:48:29,384
That's a way of life,
and we've got to re-center that.

1056
00:48:41,179 --> 00:48:44,356
JUSTIN: So who's the first
person on the schedule?

1057
00:48:44,399 --> 00:48:45,966
LAUREN MCDANIEL: It's a console.

1058
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:47,533
JUSTIN: Oh, okay.

1059
00:48:47,576 --> 00:48:49,927
When I was ten, I got hit
in the mouth with a golf ball.

1060
00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:52,320
So it like,
broke my two front teeth.

1061
00:48:52,364 --> 00:48:54,366
And unfortunately I was the one
that hit the golf ball,

1062
00:48:54,409 --> 00:48:58,936
so it came back and hit me
right in the mouth.

1063
00:48:58,979 --> 00:49:02,374
I was kinda in and our
of the dentist office as a kid,

1064
00:49:02,417 --> 00:49:04,724
so that's what got me
interested in Orthodontics.

1065
00:49:07,509 --> 00:49:10,773
I got out of
undergrad debt-free.

1066
00:49:10,817 --> 00:49:14,864
But, then it quickly
went the other direction.

1067
00:49:14,908 --> 00:49:24,918
[soft dramatic music]
JUSTIN: Finished dental school.

1068
00:49:34,449 --> 00:49:39,498
I had probably somewhere around
$400,000 in student loans.

1069
00:49:44,155 --> 00:49:50,900
Ortho and oral surgery are two
most competitive residencies.

1070
00:49:50,944 --> 00:49:52,685
And a majority of programs,
I mean they only have

1071
00:49:52,728 --> 00:49:55,340
three or four seats each year.

1072
00:49:55,383 --> 00:49:59,344
And they probably have
15,000 applications.

1073
00:49:59,387 --> 00:50:03,000
So, I mean, you have to be up
in the top of your class

1074
00:50:03,043 --> 00:50:05,132
to even get an interview.

1075
00:50:05,176 --> 00:50:06,394
Alright, you just
gotta stay biting down

1076
00:50:06,438 --> 00:50:08,222
to hold that in place
for me, okay?

1077
00:50:08,266 --> 00:50:09,310
PATIENT: Mhm!

1078
00:50:12,487 --> 00:50:20,017
JUSTIN: Once I was in residency,
the tuition was $95,000 a year.

1079
00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:23,585
I mean, at that point, what --
I didn't have any other options.

1080
00:50:23,629 --> 00:50:26,632
It was either, you know, you're
not gonna be an orthodontist

1081
00:50:26,675 --> 00:50:30,418
or this is what you're gonna do.

1082
00:50:30,462 --> 00:50:32,986
DR. JOHN: There is
a "bottomless-pit of

1083
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:34,640
money," if you will.

1084
00:50:34,683 --> 00:50:37,817
I consider private loan folks,
the same as payday lenders.

1085
00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:40,080
There's always a place
to go find money, right?

1086
00:50:40,124 --> 00:50:41,777
It's just gonna
cost you your soul.

1087
00:50:41,821 --> 00:50:43,344
But there's money out there
if you're gonna do the things

1088
00:50:43,388 --> 00:50:45,042
you gotta do to get it.

1089
00:50:47,957 --> 00:50:49,959
BRAD: We're seeing
private educational

1090
00:50:50,003 --> 00:50:53,441
loans becoming larger
and larger where there's no real

1091
00:50:53,485 --> 00:50:55,182
governmental control
like there is under

1092
00:50:55,226 --> 00:50:56,357
the federal programs.

1093
00:50:56,401 --> 00:50:58,142
Those, you're at
the mercy of your lender.

1094
00:50:58,185 --> 00:50:59,752
And for that, I can't tell you
what's gonna happen.

1095
00:50:59,795 --> 00:51:03,060
But, you're at the mercy of a
private credit-based lender,

1096
00:51:03,103 --> 00:51:07,412
and you owe tens of thousands
of dollars. Good luck.

1097
00:51:07,455 --> 00:51:15,246
[soft dramatic music]
BEVERLY WHEELIHAN: Think

1098
00:51:15,289 --> 00:51:16,725
about it like a car payment.

1099
00:51:16,769 --> 00:51:19,076
You've agreed this much money
over this many months

1100
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:21,382
at this much amount
to pay it back.

1101
00:51:21,426 --> 00:51:25,604
When you don't
[knocks], we want it.

1102
00:51:25,647 --> 00:51:28,737
Give me your pound
of flesh, now.

1103
00:51:28,781 --> 00:51:30,826
And that pound of flesh could
come in all different ways,

1104
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:33,786
but they have to sue
you to get that.

1105
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:36,005
Then you have now,
a judgement against you,

1106
00:51:36,049 --> 00:51:38,921
that they can then do other
things. For instance.

1107
00:51:38,965 --> 00:51:41,228
Garnish a paycheck,
if you have one.

1108
00:51:41,272 --> 00:51:44,231
Garnish a bank account
if you have one.

1109
00:51:44,275 --> 00:51:46,929
Repossess a vehicle
if you own it,

1110
00:51:46,973 --> 00:51:50,411
to be made whole
because they lent you money.

1111
00:51:50,455 --> 00:51:52,935
What we also have to think
about though, with that is,

1112
00:51:52,979 --> 00:51:55,416
roughly 90% of those
are co-signers.

1113
00:51:55,460 --> 00:51:57,375
So the co-signer
could be mom or dad,

1114
00:51:57,418 --> 00:52:00,029
grandma and grandpa
is a huge one,

1115
00:52:00,073 --> 00:52:02,119
and there's nothing
worst, sitting around

1116
00:52:02,162 --> 00:52:03,642
thanksgiving table,
telling grandpa

1117
00:52:03,685 --> 00:52:06,688
you can't pay that,
and grandpa already knows

1118
00:52:06,732 --> 00:52:09,735
because he was served
with a lawsuit too.

1119
00:52:09,778 --> 00:52:12,520
SETH F: We had borrowers
with private student loans,

1120
00:52:12,564 --> 00:52:16,263
where they would be paying
their loan on time, faithfully,

1121
00:52:16,307 --> 00:52:19,223
and they're, like,
parent or grand parent

1122
00:52:19,266 --> 00:52:22,226
who co-signed their loans died,
and instantly, despite the fact

1123
00:52:22,269 --> 00:52:24,663
that they were paying,
they're like, "Now your in

1124
00:52:24,706 --> 00:52:26,969
default, give us all our money."

1125
00:52:27,013 --> 00:52:30,059
BEVERLY: I had someone -- She
was in a horrific car accident,

1126
00:52:30,103 --> 00:52:34,238
paralyzed her and her mother
was killed in the car accident

1127
00:52:34,281 --> 00:52:36,849
which triggered the default
on the private student loans.

1128
00:52:36,892 --> 00:52:39,025
She was hoping
to get back to work.

1129
00:52:39,068 --> 00:52:42,289
She was, you know, working
for her degree in nursing

1130
00:52:42,333 --> 00:52:45,510
and she had a
closed head injury.

1131
00:52:45,553 --> 00:52:47,729
And I thought, okay,
this is the case!

1132
00:52:47,773 --> 00:52:48,991
This is it!

1133
00:52:49,035 --> 00:52:50,732
We can do this!

1134
00:52:50,776 --> 00:52:53,692
And, the court, in that
at the end of the day,

1135
00:52:53,735 --> 00:52:57,522
because she was gonna
qualify most likely for

1136
00:52:57,565 --> 00:53:00,133
home social security disability,
that meant that she had

1137
00:53:00,177 --> 00:53:01,569
the ability to pay it back.

1138
00:53:11,710 --> 00:53:13,190
LAUREN: Green bean
casserole with stuffing,

1139
00:53:13,233 --> 00:53:14,843
but I want to try to figure out
how to make stuffing,

1140
00:53:14,887 --> 00:53:18,804
cause even if I add some broth
to it, it won't be so dry.

1141
00:53:18,847 --> 00:53:20,197
JUSTIN: It won't be dry.

1142
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:21,285
[chuckling]
LAUREN: Yeah.

1143
00:53:21,328 --> 00:53:23,765
But we'll try it and see.

1144
00:53:24,723 --> 00:53:27,116
JUSTIN: One way to find out.

1145
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,206
When it came to student
loans, like you could

1146
00:53:29,249 --> 00:53:30,250
get whatever you wanted.

1147
00:53:30,294 --> 00:53:36,822
[ominous music]
There's problems

1148
00:53:36,865 --> 00:53:38,127
on both sides of that.

1149
00:53:38,171 --> 00:53:39,607
There're people
that are giving them money,

1150
00:53:39,651 --> 00:53:42,958
and there are people
that are taking the money.

1151
00:53:43,002 --> 00:53:47,267
I mean, $95,000
times 15 residents,

1152
00:53:47,311 --> 00:53:50,792
you're talking about
1.3 million dollars

1153
00:53:50,836 --> 00:53:53,491
in tuition from 15 people.

1154
00:53:53,534 --> 00:54:00,454
[ominous music]
And the international residents

1155
00:54:00,498 --> 00:54:05,807
that were there paid $140,000
in tuition every year.

1156
00:54:05,851 --> 00:54:06,678
140.

1157
00:54:06,721 --> 00:54:08,245
You're a number.

1158
00:54:08,288 --> 00:54:09,855
You're a paycheck.

1159
00:54:09,898 --> 00:54:14,338
[ominous music continues]
And who you're surrounded

1160
00:54:14,381 --> 00:54:17,819
by in those years are people
who probably know nothing

1161
00:54:17,863 --> 00:54:19,125
about personal finance.

1162
00:54:19,168 --> 00:54:21,780
Have the same loans
that you have.

1163
00:54:21,823 --> 00:54:25,131
And you literally just --
You do everything you can

1164
00:54:25,174 --> 00:54:28,439
just to not
even think about it.

1165
00:54:28,482 --> 00:54:30,354
It's not like, I'm
getting a loan and they're

1166
00:54:30,397 --> 00:54:32,399
giving me the money
and then I have to actually

1167
00:54:32,443 --> 00:54:33,487
give it to the school.

1168
00:54:33,531 --> 00:54:34,793
I never saw it.

1169
00:54:34,836 --> 00:54:36,229
It's scary.

1170
00:54:36,273 --> 00:54:39,537
But at that point
you're just like, whatever man.

1171
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:41,060
With all the interest
and everything that I

1172
00:54:41,103 --> 00:54:45,194
already had on my loans,
I probably had 500 or $600,000.

1173
00:54:45,238 --> 00:54:48,023
I'm like, sure just
throw it on there.

1174
00:54:48,067 --> 00:54:53,768
[ominous music continues]
LAUREN: You wanna go ahead

1175
00:54:53,812 --> 00:54:54,595
and take care of that?

1176
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:55,901
Can we do the impressions?

1177
00:54:55,944 --> 00:54:59,948
JUSTIN: [indistinct response]
LAUREN: Okay.

1178
00:54:59,992 --> 00:55:01,907
It's a ton of money, and it is.

1179
00:55:01,950 --> 00:55:03,125
It's scary.

1180
00:55:03,169 --> 00:55:05,432
And I think early on too,
it was just --

1181
00:55:05,476 --> 00:55:08,130
We had to have like
a lot of, like, hard

1182
00:55:08,174 --> 00:55:09,001
conversations about it.

1183
00:55:09,044 --> 00:55:11,220
How are we gonna pay it off?

1184
00:55:11,264 --> 00:55:13,440
Do we just go on a minimum
repayment plan

1185
00:55:13,484 --> 00:55:16,704
and you just pay it off forever?

1186
00:55:16,748 --> 00:55:20,012
Like, how do you even
begin to get out of it.

1187
00:55:20,055 --> 00:55:22,710
JUSTIN: The people who
are writing the loans,

1188
00:55:22,754 --> 00:55:24,016
they don't care.

1189
00:55:24,059 --> 00:55:25,626
I just got an offer
on my student loan, like,

1190
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:28,934
"Oh, you qualify to lower
your interest rate!"

1191
00:55:28,977 --> 00:55:31,806
Well, why'd you wait till I have
$300,000 in interest

1192
00:55:31,850 --> 00:55:34,026
to lower my interest rate?

1193
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:36,724
Why don't you lower it before?

1194
00:55:36,768 --> 00:55:39,248
Cause you just wanted
all the interest.

1195
00:55:40,772 --> 00:55:43,688
MIKE: These student loans,
you know, they never go away.

1196
00:55:43,731 --> 00:55:47,605
Unlike so much other debt
that can be "forgiven,"

1197
00:55:47,648 --> 00:55:50,259
you know in the wake
of a bankruptcy for instance.

1198
00:55:50,303 --> 00:55:53,219
It's like stepping in gum,
man, like it's with you,

1199
00:55:53,262 --> 00:55:55,047
forever and ever and ever.

1200
00:55:55,090 --> 00:56:00,400
LAUREN: So, it is accruing about
$6,000 of interest every month.

1201
00:56:00,444 --> 00:56:07,799
[upbeat music]
JUDGE: Mr. Frotman, you are now

1202
00:56:07,842 --> 00:56:13,631
recognized for five minutes
to present your oral testimony.

1203
00:56:13,674 --> 00:56:15,067
SETH F: Over the course
of the last decade,

1204
00:56:15,110 --> 00:56:17,939
I traveled all across
this country

1205
00:56:17,983 --> 00:56:21,769
talking to thousands
of people in big cities,

1206
00:56:21,813 --> 00:56:26,121
small towns and nearly every
slice of America in between.

1207
00:56:26,165 --> 00:56:29,429
And from these conversations,
I have found one aspect

1208
00:56:29,473 --> 00:56:31,170
of life cuts across.

1209
00:56:31,213 --> 00:56:33,825
The fall out from
extraordinary student debt.

1210
00:56:38,612 --> 00:56:41,485
There are now more than
8 million student loan

1211
00:56:41,528 --> 00:56:43,182
borrowers in default.

1212
00:56:43,225 --> 00:56:46,228
We had a million student loan
borrowers default last year,

1213
00:56:46,272 --> 00:56:47,752
year before that,
the year before that,

1214
00:56:47,795 --> 00:56:50,668
year before that,
So if you do the math.

1215
00:56:50,711 --> 00:56:53,192
That means, every 28 seconds,
another student loan borrower

1216
00:56:53,235 --> 00:56:56,935
defaults on his loan.

1217
00:56:56,978 --> 00:56:58,240
On top of that,
we have three million

1218
00:56:58,284 --> 00:57:01,156
more borrowers who are behind.

1219
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,246
That's over 10 million people,
or one out of four

1220
00:57:04,290 --> 00:57:06,640
student loan borrowers
who are having their

1221
00:57:06,684 --> 00:57:09,904
financial lives ruined
as they can't make

1222
00:57:09,948 --> 00:57:11,210
their payments.

1223
00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:13,168
People with student debt
had just felt invisible.

1224
00:57:13,212 --> 00:57:14,256
You take on debt?

1225
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:15,344
That's what you're
supposed to do.

1226
00:57:15,388 --> 00:57:17,346
This is good debt,
stop complaining.

1227
00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:20,262
But the ramifications
for your financial life

1228
00:57:20,306 --> 00:57:23,004
are the same if not worse.

1229
00:57:23,048 --> 00:57:26,704
Like student loan borrowers have
less rights, less protections,

1230
00:57:26,747 --> 00:57:29,794
and we use the full weight
of the government

1231
00:57:29,837 --> 00:57:32,187
to make sure you pay that back.

1232
00:57:32,231 --> 00:57:34,712
[intense music]
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I look

1233
00:57:34,755 --> 00:57:36,322
at all of the things
that are going on right here,

1234
00:57:36,365 --> 00:57:38,237
and I'm just --
Article after article,

1235
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,980
what certainly seems like a very
large amount of corruption.

1236
00:57:42,023 --> 00:57:46,201
In 2009, SallieMae CEO said,
"If a borrower can create

1237
00:57:46,245 --> 00:57:49,509
condensation on a mirror, they
need to get a loan this year,"

1238
00:57:49,553 --> 00:57:51,990
in order to put their
sub-prime lending in place.

1239
00:57:52,033 --> 00:57:54,732
Navient forwarded wrong
information of credit

1240
00:57:54,775 --> 00:57:57,778
reporting agencies,
saying that permanently disabled

1241
00:57:57,822 --> 00:58:01,390
veterans had defaulted
on their loans when they hadn't.

1242
00:58:01,434 --> 00:58:04,524
Then you have I.T.T. Credit
Union using financial aid staff

1243
00:58:04,568 --> 00:58:08,180
to rush students up through
an automated application process

1244
00:58:08,223 --> 00:58:10,182
when they knew
that they had projected

1245
00:58:10,225 --> 00:58:13,664
default rates as high as 64%!

1246
00:58:13,707 --> 00:58:16,405
So they were setting
people up to fail.

1247
00:58:16,449 --> 00:58:19,713
SETH F: These are series
of public policy choices

1248
00:58:19,757 --> 00:58:21,628
at the federal government,
at the state government,

1249
00:58:21,672 --> 00:58:25,545
that have gotten us here.

1250
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:28,940
I think this is the intersection
between so much debt

1251
00:58:28,983 --> 00:58:30,768
and illegal practices, right?

1252
00:58:30,811 --> 00:58:34,380
Because, there's this enormous
mismatch between what borrowers

1253
00:58:34,423 --> 00:58:36,948
are promised and what's
happening on the ground,

1254
00:58:36,991 --> 00:58:39,690
and in between
are student loan companies,

1255
00:58:39,733 --> 00:58:44,782
this is not just some one-off
company or like, one bad apple.

1256
00:58:44,825 --> 00:58:48,873
You see players across
the student loan spectrum

1257
00:58:48,916 --> 00:58:52,616
who just view this
as their chance to get rich.

1258
00:58:55,836 --> 00:58:59,927
[dramatic upbeat music]
LYNN SABULSKI: My name

1259
00:58:59,971 --> 00:59:02,843
is Lynn Sabulski,
I am a former employee

1260
00:59:02,887 --> 00:59:04,802
of Navient's call center.

1261
00:59:04,845 --> 00:59:09,284
I thought it was going to be
really easy straight forward job

1262
00:59:09,328 --> 00:59:11,025
that I would understand
the rules, that

1263
00:59:11,069 --> 00:59:12,549
I would perform well.

1264
00:59:12,592 --> 00:59:17,292
The longer, I was there,
I started to notice red flags.

1265
00:59:17,336 --> 00:59:20,992
[phone ringing]
People were being asked to lie.

1266
00:59:21,035 --> 00:59:24,082
People were not being given
the right information.

1267
00:59:24,125 --> 00:59:29,566
In general, there was just this
oppressive environment

1268
00:59:29,609 --> 00:59:33,221
that wasn't really allowing the
representatives to do the job

1269
00:59:33,265 --> 00:59:34,832
that they were being paid to do.

1270
00:59:36,790 --> 00:59:40,141
BEVERLY: There is a memo
that Navient Counsel told

1271
00:59:40,185 --> 00:59:43,449
and had the mantra to the people
that you would call,

1272
00:59:43,492 --> 00:59:45,233
those customer service people.

1273
00:59:45,277 --> 00:59:46,931
Forebear, forebear, forebear.

1274
00:59:46,974 --> 00:59:49,890
Get these people that way.

1275
00:59:49,934 --> 00:59:52,763
- Forbearance:
an agreement to postpone

1276
00:59:52,806 --> 00:59:56,549
your loan payments while
interest continues to accrue.

1277
00:59:56,593 --> 00:59:58,595
LYNN: When Navient puts
an account in forbearance,

1278
00:59:58,638 --> 01:00:00,248
they get to collect
the interest.

1279
01:00:00,292 --> 01:00:02,990
Those loan balances increase,
they are now collecting interest

1280
01:00:03,034 --> 01:00:04,470
on top of interest.

1281
01:00:04,513 --> 01:00:07,168
That is the most beneficial
scenario for them.

1282
01:00:07,212 --> 01:00:09,606
SETH F: We sued one of the
biggest student loan companies

1283
01:00:09,649 --> 01:00:11,912
in the country, Navient.

1284
01:00:11,956 --> 01:00:16,917
And a single claim,
as part of that lawsuit,

1285
01:00:16,961 --> 01:00:23,358
documented how the practices of
this company added four billion,

1286
01:00:23,402 --> 01:00:26,448
with a B, dollars
of unnecessary interest

1287
01:00:26,492 --> 01:00:30,191
on to the most
vulnerable borrowers.

1288
01:00:30,235 --> 01:00:31,715
AYANNA PRESSLEY: Mr. Frotman,
our friends across the aisle

1289
01:00:31,758 --> 01:00:33,847
have mentioned that student loan
services are supposedly

1290
01:00:33,891 --> 01:00:37,068
not incentivized as to your
borrowers towards forbearance

1291
01:00:37,111 --> 01:00:39,287
and they are not financially
incentivized to give borrowers

1292
01:00:39,331 --> 01:00:42,595
poor or outright
incorrect advice.

1293
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:45,424
Yet, an audit release by the
D.O.E. in February this year,

1294
01:00:45,467 --> 01:00:48,427
found that more than 60% of the
department's oversight report,

1295
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:51,256
contained examples of servicers
acting improperly.

1296
01:00:51,299 --> 01:00:53,475
If our friends across
the aisle are correct,

1297
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:56,304
and loan servicers are not
incentivized to make mistakes

1298
01:00:56,348 --> 01:00:59,917
and give poor advice, then why
is this consistently happening?

1299
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:01,353
SETH F: Because they're wrong.

1300
01:01:01,396 --> 01:01:03,268
Because they are incentivized
to give bad advice.

1301
01:01:03,311 --> 01:01:05,487
They're incentivized to get
their call reps off the phone

1302
01:01:05,531 --> 01:01:08,534
as quick as possible, which
we see across the industry,

1303
01:01:08,577 --> 01:01:10,405
leading to the outcomes
we have today.

1304
01:01:11,885 --> 01:01:15,323
LYNN: This part of our
training was keeping your

1305
01:01:15,367 --> 01:01:17,021
calls to seven minutes.

1306
01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:18,631
If I don't keep
my call to seven minutes,

1307
01:01:18,675 --> 01:01:20,938
I have a lower status
at the end of the day.

1308
01:01:20,981 --> 01:01:23,897
I'm considered as not
having performed as well.

1309
01:01:23,941 --> 01:01:26,987
If you're a representative
and you're choice is,

1310
01:01:27,031 --> 01:01:29,076
"give this person
the help they need,

1311
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,732
or get in trouble
in some way shape or form,"

1312
01:01:32,776 --> 01:01:38,129
then really, you're pitting
one person against the other.

1313
01:01:38,172 --> 01:01:41,741
I was talking to my co-workers
over lunch and over break,

1314
01:01:41,785 --> 01:01:45,179
and a few of my
co-workers said that,

1315
01:01:45,223 --> 01:01:48,052
there's just no way to answer
all of those questions

1316
01:01:48,095 --> 01:01:50,402
in a way that was satisfactory
and maintain

1317
01:01:50,445 --> 01:01:52,447
the numbers that
we were maintaining.

1318
01:01:52,491 --> 01:01:55,929
And so, they would be on their
call, and they would just press

1319
01:01:55,973 --> 01:01:57,278
a button and go, "Oops!"

1320
01:01:57,322 --> 01:01:59,106
[phone dial tone]
PHONE RECORDING: We're sorry.

1321
01:01:59,150 --> 01:02:00,586
Dial again.

1322
01:02:00,629 --> 01:02:02,196
BEVERLY: Funny enough,
Navient's still in business,

1323
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,808
making a kajillion dollars a
year, and still has contracts

1324
01:02:04,851 --> 01:02:07,593
with the federal government.

1325
01:02:07,636 --> 01:02:09,813
Hm. Angry yet?

1326
01:02:09,856 --> 01:02:12,293
CATIE BECK: On the shoreline
of Maui's Wailea Beach,

1327
01:02:12,337 --> 01:02:15,732
at the luxurious Fairmont hotel,
SallieMae executives

1328
01:02:15,775 --> 01:02:17,821
and more than a hundred
of its employees

1329
01:02:17,864 --> 01:02:22,695
are on a five day paid trip
celebrating a record year.

1330
01:02:22,739 --> 01:02:27,656
5 billion in student loans
to 374,000 borrowers!

1331
01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:29,833
RAY QUINLAN: Planning
session and recognition

1332
01:02:29,876 --> 01:02:32,531
of accomplishments
for our sales force, is but

1333
01:02:32,574 --> 01:02:35,229
something that has been done,
I'm gonna say, since the

1334
01:02:35,273 --> 01:02:36,578
company was founded in 1972.

1335
01:02:36,622 --> 01:02:37,971
And it's recognition
of the hard work,

1336
01:02:38,015 --> 01:02:40,017
but it's an important
piece of planning.

1337
01:02:40,060 --> 01:02:41,322
I think we're done.

1338
01:02:42,410 --> 01:02:44,325
SETH F: That is,
like, a general sentiment

1339
01:02:44,369 --> 01:02:50,897
that we hear frequently, which
is, "We love getting the money

1340
01:02:50,941 --> 01:02:53,073
to be involved
in the student loans system."

1341
01:02:53,117 --> 01:02:56,816
But when it actually comes to
doing the work to help borrowers

1342
01:02:56,860 --> 01:03:00,254
to avoid the defaults,
you know, how dare you

1343
01:03:00,298 --> 01:03:02,909
accuse us of being
part of the problem.

1344
01:03:02,953 --> 01:03:05,738
And so, we sued
this company in court,

1345
01:03:05,782 --> 01:03:08,567
and one of their top
legal arguments were, "Judge,

1346
01:03:08,610 --> 01:03:11,439
you should dismiss this
case because we have no

1347
01:03:11,483 --> 01:03:13,746
actual responsibility
to help borrowers."

1348
01:03:15,487 --> 01:03:21,101
JOSIAH: I'm being cheated
out of my paycheck.

1349
01:03:21,145 --> 01:03:24,104
I could retire
two years after I'm done

1350
01:03:24,148 --> 01:03:25,845
paying my student loans.

1351
01:03:25,889 --> 01:03:28,848
It's like paying for retirement
and literally never seeing

1352
01:03:28,892 --> 01:03:31,024
a dime of it ever again.

1353
01:03:31,068 --> 01:03:32,809
SETH F: You should know
the names of the companies

1354
01:03:32,852 --> 01:03:35,594
that have targeted
your constituency.

1355
01:03:35,637 --> 01:03:40,817
Citibank, Discover Bank,
Navient, Pheaa, QuinStreet,

1356
01:03:40,860 --> 01:03:43,602
SallieMae, SoFi,
Transworld, Wells Fargo,

1357
01:03:43,645 --> 01:03:46,518
and the list goes on.

1358
01:03:46,561 --> 01:03:52,176
[soft dramatic music]
LYNN: In a way,

1359
01:03:52,219 --> 01:03:54,874
there's no morality in
the student loan system

1360
01:03:54,918 --> 01:03:59,052
because there is no one
that's going to stop

1361
01:03:59,096 --> 01:04:00,619
you from borrowing.

1362
01:04:00,662 --> 01:04:03,796
At the end of the day,
it's just, you know,

1363
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,321
you type a couple buttons in,
and on the other side there's a

1364
01:04:07,365 --> 01:04:08,714
student loan with some numbers.

1365
01:04:08,757 --> 01:04:14,328
That is the most
personal it gets.

1366
01:04:14,372 --> 01:04:24,382
[ominous music]

1367
01:04:28,777 --> 01:04:35,741
JOSIAH: So, this right
here is my college diploma.

1368
01:04:35,784 --> 01:04:37,961
Don't even take it
out of the envelope.

1369
01:04:38,004 --> 01:04:40,877
In fact, I had to have
my mother mail it to me,

1370
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,444
'cause I didn't know
what it was.

1371
01:04:43,488 --> 01:04:44,750
So, let's see.

1372
01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:55,456
Stamped, signed and sealed.

1373
01:04:55,500 --> 01:04:58,068
That's not going
to ever be framed.

1374
01:04:58,111 --> 01:05:01,941
Not going to ever leave
this envelop again,

1375
01:05:01,985 --> 01:05:04,335
and I'm sure
I could have the degree.

1376
01:05:04,378 --> 01:05:08,774
It allows me to do something
that I love to do in teaching,

1377
01:05:08,817 --> 01:05:11,168
but this piece of paper
is something that has brought

1378
01:05:11,211 --> 01:05:13,779
a lot of pain in my life.

1379
01:05:13,822 --> 01:05:17,870
I don't really
want to look at it.

1380
01:05:17,914 --> 01:05:27,924
[soft suspenseful music]
AMARI: You could talk to someone

1381
01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:38,238
who's graduated 10 years ago,
and they still

1382
01:05:38,282 --> 01:05:41,981
owe student loans.

1383
01:05:42,025 --> 01:05:45,550
So it's like, if I could meet
a complete stranger

1384
01:05:45,593 --> 01:05:51,251
and this is what we have
in common, that's an issue.

1385
01:05:51,295 --> 01:06:00,130
[music continues]
JUSTIN: The borrower is

1386
01:06:00,173 --> 01:06:02,610
a slave to a lender, and
like, that's so true.

1387
01:06:05,787 --> 01:06:10,444
When you have this kind
of debt or really any

1388
01:06:10,488 --> 01:06:12,533
debt, you feel that.

1389
01:06:12,577 --> 01:06:16,973
It changes who you are,
and how you can behave.

1390
01:06:20,106 --> 01:06:23,283
It changes your life.

1391
01:06:23,327 --> 01:06:25,198
GPS: You've arrived
at your destination.

1392
01:06:25,242 --> 01:06:30,116
DAVE: The choices that
they've made now own them.

1393
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:35,948
And they were led down this
primrose path by a set of values

1394
01:06:35,992 --> 01:06:39,865
put on them by a series of
guidance counselors and parents

1395
01:06:39,908 --> 01:06:42,868
who weren't thinking, educators
who were out of control,

1396
01:06:42,911 --> 01:06:45,827
and a congress who
continues this ridiculous

1397
01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:47,177
student loan debacle.

1398
01:06:47,220 --> 01:06:50,267
And here they sit trapped.

1399
01:06:50,310 --> 01:06:55,228
And they do not know what to do.

1400
01:06:55,272 --> 01:06:58,057
COURTNEY: I'mma try to do
this without crying.

1401
01:06:58,101 --> 01:07:05,238
I feel like, when he told me how
much student loan debt he had,

1402
01:07:05,282 --> 01:07:07,980
it wasn't going to make me
change the way I felt about him.

1403
01:07:08,024 --> 01:07:14,247
Like, you're debt isn't bringing
you down as a person, you know?

1404
01:07:14,291 --> 01:07:15,683
Millions of Americans
are struggling with

1405
01:07:15,727 --> 01:07:16,641
the same problem.

1406
01:07:16,684 --> 01:07:20,732
Like, it's not just your fault.

1407
01:07:20,775 --> 01:07:22,516
I like, I don't care
how much debt he'll ever have.

1408
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,346
I will still always love him.

1409
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:31,569
But I don't think
he realized that.

1410
01:07:31,612 --> 01:07:36,139
JOSIAH: I feel like I've failed
as the provider, as the husband,

1411
01:07:36,182 --> 01:07:39,490
because I'm the reason
that we're in so much debt.

1412
01:07:39,533 --> 01:07:43,972
We only had a total of $142,000.

1413
01:07:44,016 --> 01:07:48,325
A hundred and twenty some
of that is my college.

1414
01:07:48,368 --> 01:07:50,022
It's literally like
saying, you're the reason

1415
01:07:50,066 --> 01:07:51,197
your team is losing.

1416
01:07:51,241 --> 01:07:52,981
If they --
If you weren't on this team,

1417
01:07:53,025 --> 01:07:54,635
we'd be winning.

1418
01:07:54,679 --> 01:07:59,597
But because of one thing, it
takes everybody down with them.

1419
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,688
[soft dramatic music]
COURTNEY: The first hardest

1420
01:08:03,731 --> 01:08:06,212
thing it was for me
was right after we got married,

1421
01:08:06,256 --> 01:08:07,692
we could not go on a honeymoon.

1422
01:08:07,735 --> 01:08:10,129
And I know that sounds,
like, cliche, but like,

1423
01:08:10,173 --> 01:08:12,566
you don't realize
you'll never have that,

1424
01:08:12,610 --> 01:08:15,178
like, moment,
that like, time again.

1425
01:08:15,221 --> 01:08:17,702
Like, newlyweds get to go
to like this awesome place.

1426
01:08:17,745 --> 01:08:20,313
Like it's something you look
forward to when you get married.

1427
01:08:20,357 --> 01:08:24,361
And like, we lost out
on, like, that time.

1428
01:08:24,404 --> 01:08:26,145
That was hard.

1429
01:08:26,189 --> 01:08:28,147
JOSIAH: I know she still
loves me no matter what,

1430
01:08:28,191 --> 01:08:30,149
and I'm so grateful for that,
but, it's stopped us

1431
01:08:30,193 --> 01:08:33,587
from being able to get a house
when we moved down to Van Wert,

1432
01:08:33,631 --> 01:08:37,809
and it stopped us for a long
time from not having kids.

1433
01:08:37,852 --> 01:08:42,161
Like, I'm not being the man
that I'm supposed to be.

1434
01:08:42,205 --> 01:08:46,383
[soft dramatic music]
JUSTIN: Looking at, you

1435
01:08:46,426 --> 01:08:48,515
know, what it's gonna
look like to actually

1436
01:08:48,559 --> 01:08:52,998
attempt to pay it
off, paying somewhere

1437
01:08:53,041 --> 01:08:56,958
around $10,000 a month,
you know, sounds like

1438
01:08:57,002 --> 01:08:59,135
it's gonna, you know,
actually do something,

1439
01:08:59,178 --> 01:09:02,181
but it's not gonna do as much
as you'd like to

1440
01:09:02,225 --> 01:09:03,878
think that it will.

1441
01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:07,882
At some point, it's
gonna have to be, you

1442
01:09:07,926 --> 01:09:13,932
know, you're paying 20,
30, $40,000 a month.

1443
01:09:13,975 --> 01:09:16,630
To be able to pay 30
or $40,000 a month, I mean,

1444
01:09:16,674 --> 01:09:24,203
you gotta be making
a lot of money.

1445
01:09:24,247 --> 01:09:28,599
You know I think, realizing,
you know, what it is

1446
01:09:28,642 --> 01:09:38,043
and just knowing that...

1447
01:09:38,086 --> 01:09:41,525
[coughing]
you know it's probably

1448
01:09:41,568 --> 01:09:44,658
not going to be possible,
you know without --

1449
01:09:44,702 --> 01:09:46,399
[voice breaking]
the help of God.

1450
01:09:46,443 --> 01:09:53,885
I mean...How am I going
to make that much money?

1451
01:09:53,928 --> 01:09:59,847
[sniffling]

1452
01:09:59,891 --> 01:10:03,938
But, all you can do
is just try, so...

1453
01:10:12,860 --> 01:10:14,906
SETH G: There're a lot of people
who quite rightfully say,

1454
01:10:14,949 --> 01:10:17,213
I did everything
I was told to do.

1455
01:10:17,256 --> 01:10:19,606
Now, I'm in a boat load of debt.

1456
01:10:19,650 --> 01:10:21,260
I'm not happy about it.

1457
01:10:21,304 --> 01:10:24,394
How're we gonna keep this
cycle from repeating itself.

1458
01:10:24,437 --> 01:10:25,830
Well to the first
group of people,

1459
01:10:25,873 --> 01:10:29,486
I'm sorry that you shouldn't
have trusted the system.

1460
01:10:29,529 --> 01:10:31,183
The system let you down.

1461
01:10:31,227 --> 01:10:33,620
How do we keep from
repeating it is,

1462
01:10:33,664 --> 01:10:36,319
stop telling people this is what
they're supposed to do.

1463
01:10:36,362 --> 01:10:39,147
Stop telling people
that this is the path.

1464
01:10:39,191 --> 01:10:40,758
It might be easier.

1465
01:10:40,801 --> 01:10:44,196
It's definitely more fun in
the short run, but here it is,

1466
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,199
with sub-titles: "THIS IS NOT
WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO."

1467
01:10:47,243 --> 01:10:49,375
What you're supposed
to do is figure out how

1468
01:10:49,419 --> 01:10:51,290
to make a contribution,
not figure out

1469
01:10:51,334 --> 01:10:53,727
how to make a marketing,
industrial governance system

1470
01:10:53,771 --> 01:10:55,773
happy in the short run.

1471
01:10:58,341 --> 01:11:00,604
DAVID: What was the
first step you took in

1472
01:11:00,647 --> 01:11:04,042
terms of you getting out
the lifestyle that you were.

1473
01:11:04,085 --> 01:11:04,912
ANTHONY: Yeah.

1474
01:11:06,262 --> 01:11:08,307
Changed my mind.

1475
01:11:08,351 --> 01:11:12,224
What are you putting inside
of this, that comes out of this,

1476
01:11:12,268 --> 01:11:15,140
that comes out of this.

1477
01:11:15,183 --> 01:11:17,316
A degree that y'all
are tryn'a get,

1478
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,928
is a small degree
when it comes to your life.

1479
01:11:20,972 --> 01:11:23,322
This right here is everything.

1480
01:11:23,366 --> 01:11:26,543
And when I changed
what I was putting up here,

1481
01:11:26,586 --> 01:11:29,285
that's when my
whole life changed.

1482
01:11:29,328 --> 01:11:34,202
Each and every single one of you
all need to have a clear vision

1483
01:11:34,246 --> 01:11:35,639
of what you wanna do.

1484
01:11:35,682 --> 01:11:38,816
The vision is not,
"I wanna go to this school.

1485
01:11:38,859 --> 01:11:41,035
I wanna have this experience."

1486
01:11:41,079 --> 01:11:45,344
No, what is the vision
for your life.

1487
01:11:45,388 --> 01:11:48,086
"I wanna have options.

1488
01:11:48,129 --> 01:11:50,349
I want freedom."

1489
01:11:50,393 --> 01:11:56,573
The question is, are you willing
to put in the work upfront.

1490
01:11:56,616 --> 01:12:02,230
If you can grasp that,
you will be successful.

1491
01:12:02,274 --> 01:12:10,238
[soft dramatic strings]
DAVID: Going into my senior

1492
01:12:10,282 --> 01:12:12,328
year, I knew it'd be close.

1493
01:12:12,371 --> 01:12:15,243
I can do the Math, so can you.

1494
01:12:15,287 --> 01:12:19,552
Working at a normal
hourly job would not pay

1495
01:12:19,596 --> 01:12:22,816
the necessary $14,000
I needed for school.

1496
01:12:22,860 --> 01:12:26,385
I knew what I had to do.

1497
01:12:26,429 --> 01:12:28,996
I went for something
with more opportunity,

1498
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:31,347
and that was a sales
commission job,

1499
01:12:31,390 --> 01:12:34,698
and really went
and made the most of it.

1500
01:12:34,741 --> 01:12:37,353
Usually worked four days a week,
10 hour shifts,

1501
01:12:37,396 --> 01:12:41,182
and then on my off-days, I'd
sell lawn-mowers and flip them.

1502
01:12:41,226 --> 01:12:42,967
Driving across the state.

1503
01:12:43,010 --> 01:12:44,795
Hey, how's it going!

1504
01:12:44,838 --> 01:12:46,405
MALE: Good, how 'bout you?

1505
01:12:46,449 --> 01:12:47,145
DAVID: Good!

1506
01:12:47,188 --> 01:12:48,799
It's right over here.

1507
01:12:48,842 --> 01:12:52,237
Little did I know that, there
was so much opportunity in it.

1508
01:12:52,280 --> 01:13:02,290
[uplifting music]
DAVID: Well, I know you had it

1509
01:13:03,204 --> 01:13:08,122
listed for six but,
would you take five on it, cash?

1510
01:13:08,166 --> 01:13:10,864
[mower running]
ANTHONY: We gotta teach

1511
01:13:10,908 --> 01:13:12,736
young people
how to really take ownership

1512
01:13:12,779 --> 01:13:14,172
of their life.

1513
01:13:14,215 --> 01:13:16,217
If they're paying something
outta their pocket,

1514
01:13:16,261 --> 01:13:18,437
they will take their
education experience

1515
01:13:18,481 --> 01:13:21,266
a little more serious,
because now they can say,

1516
01:13:21,309 --> 01:13:25,226
my parents didn't pay for it,
we paid for it.

1517
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:27,925
DAVID: This is just
simplistic to me.

1518
01:13:27,968 --> 01:13:29,970
It's something
that I understand and,

1519
01:13:30,014 --> 01:13:33,452
I don't think lawn-mowers
is for everybody.

1520
01:13:33,496 --> 01:13:36,499
So, someone who is interested
in shoes would be better suited

1521
01:13:36,542 --> 01:13:39,240
to do something like that.

1522
01:13:39,284 --> 01:13:40,807
As long as you have
knowledge in an area,

1523
01:13:40,851 --> 01:13:44,637
you can probably figure out
a way to make money with it.

1524
01:13:44,681 --> 01:13:46,465
SETH G: During this
expensive period,

1525
01:13:46,509 --> 01:13:49,773
if you have the resources,
and the time,

1526
01:13:49,816 --> 01:13:52,776
how will you choose
to spend it,

1527
01:13:52,819 --> 01:13:55,561
so that when the system
tries to squeeze you,

1528
01:13:55,605 --> 01:13:57,650
you can say, "No thank you!"

1529
01:13:57,694 --> 01:14:00,914
DAVID: Got these
pictures uploaded,

1530
01:14:00,958 --> 01:14:08,356
gotta do some cropping,
get them posted, then wait.

1531
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:14,580
There was one guy I bought
a bigger zero-turn, paid $1,700.

1532
01:14:14,624 --> 01:14:17,844
Brought it home,
washed it, listed it,

1533
01:14:17,888 --> 01:14:21,761
sold it for $2,600 same day.

1534
01:14:21,805 --> 01:14:24,024
My mom would be dumbfounded.

1535
01:14:24,068 --> 01:14:25,504
"Are you sure you're
allowed to do that?"

1536
01:14:25,548 --> 01:14:28,376
Like, Mom, it's selling
lawn-mowers, I don't

1537
01:14:28,420 --> 01:14:30,553
know what else you want.

1538
01:14:30,596 --> 01:14:32,772
You definitely have a lot
of noise around you saying,

1539
01:14:32,816 --> 01:14:36,384
take out loans,
you're not able to do this.

1540
01:14:36,428 --> 01:14:39,083
Once you find that window
of opportunity though,

1541
01:14:39,126 --> 01:14:42,303
and realize that if you repeat
this process over

1542
01:14:42,347 --> 01:14:45,132
and over like I did
with lawn-mowers,

1543
01:14:45,176 --> 01:14:48,135
there's just so
much empowerment.

1544
01:14:48,179 --> 01:14:50,747
And that feeling
of running after this goal,

1545
01:14:50,790 --> 01:14:53,706
and chasing it down and putting
everything you have into it,

1546
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:57,318
that's hard to explain.

1547
01:14:57,362 --> 01:14:59,407
Alright, she's all ready to go.

1548
01:14:59,451 --> 01:15:00,887
CUSTOMER: $800, yeah?

1549
01:15:00,931 --> 01:15:02,193
DAVID: Yep!

1550
01:15:02,236 --> 01:15:03,977
When you start opening
your eyes and looking

1551
01:15:04,021 --> 01:15:06,589
to these unique
opportunities, you could

1552
01:15:06,632 --> 01:15:08,765
add value in unique ways.

1553
01:15:08,808 --> 01:15:10,114
All good!

1554
01:15:10,157 --> 01:15:11,637
Enjoy it!

1555
01:15:11,681 --> 01:15:16,337
In total, that summer,
I probably made around $13,000.

1556
01:15:16,381 --> 01:15:20,951
That point, I could say,
I'm getting out of these

1557
01:15:20,994 --> 01:15:22,300
four years debt-free.

1558
01:15:25,172 --> 01:15:30,743
DAVID: Well, I dunno if we're
allowed to go here, but we are.

1559
01:15:30,787 --> 01:15:34,573
Ah sweet!

1560
01:15:34,617 --> 01:15:36,793
That's cool.

1561
01:15:36,836 --> 01:15:38,795
DR. JOHN: So I remember
once when I was an undergrad

1562
01:15:38,838 --> 01:15:41,493
and I asked my history
professor, "Why did

1563
01:15:41,537 --> 01:15:46,585
they send all these 18
and 19 year old US soldiers

1564
01:15:46,629 --> 01:15:48,892
to a Normandy invasion?"

1565
01:15:50,328 --> 01:15:52,765
And he said something
that shook me.

1566
01:15:52,809 --> 01:15:58,510
He said, "Because any combat
veterans who saw that plan

1567
01:15:58,554 --> 01:16:00,033
would have said no way."

1568
01:16:00,077 --> 01:16:08,955
[soft dramatic music]
D-Day worked because

1569
01:16:08,999 --> 01:16:13,786
of some extraordinary planning,
some extraordinary sacrifice.

1570
01:16:13,830 --> 01:16:16,572
And what he said,
was good ol' fashioned,

1571
01:16:16,615 --> 01:16:20,663
unabated American
teenage arrogance.

1572
01:16:20,706 --> 01:16:24,492
Cause they got up in front
and told those boys,

1573
01:16:24,536 --> 01:16:27,104
Nine out of ten of you
will not come home.

1574
01:16:27,147 --> 01:16:30,194
90 out of 100 of you
are not coming back.

1575
01:16:30,237 --> 01:16:35,242
And those guys in line went,
"Sucks to be that guy, right?"

1576
01:16:35,286 --> 01:16:37,331
And they did that
all the way down.

1577
01:16:37,375 --> 01:16:39,507
'Cause when you're a teenager,
you're invincible.

1578
01:16:39,551 --> 01:16:41,509
It's gonna happen
to somebody else.

1579
01:16:41,553 --> 01:16:46,645
And so, I have to know,
no matter how honest I'm being,

1580
01:16:46,689 --> 01:16:49,735
and how upfront I'm being,
"Hey, this is expensive,

1581
01:16:49,779 --> 01:16:51,781
and you're gonna have
to pay this back."

1582
01:16:51,824 --> 01:16:55,088
I have to know
that my end consumer,

1583
01:16:55,132 --> 01:16:58,004
the 18-year-olds going
"Okay, we'll get there,"

1584
01:16:58,048 --> 01:17:03,619
and has no understanding
of what $700 a month

1585
01:17:03,662 --> 01:17:07,797
actually feels like out
of a $2,400 a month paycheck.

1586
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,973
CLAYTON: I just -- I feel like
I'm just so worried about what,

1587
01:17:10,016 --> 01:17:12,671
like, having a sacrifice
my happiness for

1588
01:17:12,715 --> 01:17:14,368
like a cheaper route.

1589
01:17:14,412 --> 01:17:16,762
Like having to sacrifice
what really makes me happy

1590
01:17:16,806 --> 01:17:19,373
and brings me joy on a day to
day basis just to save money.

1591
01:17:19,417 --> 01:17:20,766
Like, happiness is
worth anything. Like,

1592
01:17:20,810 --> 01:17:22,115
you know what I mean?

1593
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:23,682
That's the part I'm confused on.

1594
01:17:23,726 --> 01:17:26,424
Like, if you're not happy in
life, at that given moment,

1595
01:17:26,467 --> 01:17:29,296
no matter what it takes,
does it really matter,

1596
01:17:29,340 --> 01:17:31,603
the happiness later on?

1597
01:17:31,647 --> 01:17:34,606
ANTHONY: I'm not saying
you can't be happy.

1598
01:17:34,650 --> 01:17:38,654
I want you to be happy.

1599
01:17:38,697 --> 01:17:42,005
But I feel as if your happiness
comes from something

1600
01:17:42,048 --> 01:17:46,400
that is outside of education.

1601
01:17:46,444 --> 01:17:49,403
And I feel as if you're
looking for something

1602
01:17:49,447 --> 01:17:52,493
to confirm something
on the internal side of you,

1603
01:17:52,537 --> 01:17:55,627
not something
to help you grow as a man.

1604
01:17:55,671 --> 01:17:57,847
Because, if you're looking
for the education,

1605
01:17:57,890 --> 01:18:00,719
then you can get
the education anywhere.

1606
01:18:00,763 --> 01:18:03,243
But from what you said,
you just wanna go there

1607
01:18:03,287 --> 01:18:06,203
so you can have a good time.

1608
01:18:06,246 --> 01:18:08,248
I would really step back
and ask myself,

1609
01:18:08,292 --> 01:18:09,859
what's more important.

1610
01:18:09,902 --> 01:18:14,254
Happiness for four years
that cost me 30,

1611
01:18:14,298 --> 01:18:19,390
or a little bit of happiness
but hard work

1612
01:18:19,433 --> 01:18:22,872
that really makes me happy
for the rest of my life.

1613
01:18:22,915 --> 01:18:26,049
And if it was me, I'm saying,
"Man, I'm putting in the work."

1614
01:18:26,092 --> 01:18:29,879
[soft string music]
DAVID: I look back

1615
01:18:29,922 --> 01:18:33,273
at my four years, and,
is was the time of my life.

1616
01:18:33,317 --> 01:18:35,841
I got to travel
a bunch for really cheap.

1617
01:18:35,885 --> 01:18:41,760
Been to Alaska, California,
Texas, Florida --

1618
01:18:41,804 --> 01:18:45,764
But the reality is,
it's not the buildings,

1619
01:18:45,808 --> 01:18:49,986
it's not the sports, it's not
the land around the school

1620
01:18:50,029 --> 01:18:51,770
that make the experience.

1621
01:18:51,814 --> 01:18:54,164
It's all up to you.

1622
01:18:54,207 --> 01:18:56,166
It's not the school
that's gonna change that.

1623
01:18:56,209 --> 01:19:02,520
[soft string music]
DAVID'S MOM: So which one

1624
01:19:02,563 --> 01:19:03,564
of these are you sitting at.

1625
01:19:03,608 --> 01:19:06,872
DAVID: I'm way,
like, over there.

1626
01:19:06,916 --> 01:19:08,308
You'll have to get
your binoculars out

1627
01:19:08,352 --> 01:19:09,222
and squint a little.

1628
01:19:09,266 --> 01:19:10,136
MOM: I actually brought them.

1629
01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:10,789
DAVID: You did?

1630
01:19:10,833 --> 01:19:13,313
MOM: I did.

1631
01:19:13,357 --> 01:19:14,662
ANTHONY: You know what the
difference is between

1632
01:19:14,706 --> 01:19:16,969
a normal person and someone
who is not normal?

1633
01:19:17,013 --> 01:19:19,667
Is the not normal person
was willing to do the things

1634
01:19:19,711 --> 01:19:24,194
that normal people
are not willing to do.

1635
01:19:24,237 --> 01:19:26,936
I do not want to live
the majority of my life

1636
01:19:26,979 --> 01:19:28,981
not being able to do
what I want to do

1637
01:19:29,025 --> 01:19:31,636
because I gotta pay
for things in my past.

1638
01:19:31,679 --> 01:19:35,466
That's the normal
I refuse to be a part of.

1639
01:19:35,509 --> 01:19:37,337
SETH G: Students need
to begin by saying,

1640
01:19:37,381 --> 01:19:40,427
I refused to be brainwashed
into believing

1641
01:19:40,471 --> 01:19:41,820
that if I get into
a good college,

1642
01:19:41,864 --> 01:19:44,170
that means I'm better
than if I don't.

1643
01:19:44,214 --> 01:19:47,434
So go find a door you can afford
and go through that door.

1644
01:19:47,478 --> 01:19:50,655
And figure out how to marshal
the resources you need.

1645
01:19:50,698 --> 01:19:53,658
Whether it's scholarships
or only going part time,

1646
01:19:53,701 --> 01:19:56,182
or taking a gap year,
and working like crazy,

1647
01:19:56,226 --> 01:19:59,925
putting $25,000 in the bank,
so at least, your first year,

1648
01:19:59,969 --> 01:20:01,927
you're not starting
with free and easy money

1649
01:20:01,971 --> 01:20:04,669
you're going to be
paying off for decades.

1650
01:20:06,279 --> 01:20:08,325
DAVE: It never was the degree
that caused people to succeed.

1651
01:20:08,368 --> 01:20:11,763
It was the knowledge base,
the tools in their belt,

1652
01:20:11,807 --> 01:20:13,678
to be able to get
their work done.

1653
01:20:13,721 --> 01:20:15,680
That's what caused
people to succeed.

1654
01:20:15,723 --> 01:20:18,683
It's still what causes
people to succeed.

1655
01:20:18,726 --> 01:20:20,859
Whether you can demonstrate
that you have the skills

1656
01:20:20,903 --> 01:20:24,080
to do the job is going
to be a much higher indicator

1657
01:20:24,123 --> 01:20:25,908
than where you went
to school or for that matter,

1658
01:20:25,951 --> 01:20:29,694
even if you have the degree.

1659
01:20:29,737 --> 01:20:32,044
MIKE: I think there's
a real opportunity for

1660
01:20:32,088 --> 01:20:34,917
guidance counselors
and parents to talk to their

1661
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:38,790
kids about how they wanna work,
as opposed to what

1662
01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:40,183
they wanna do.

1663
01:20:40,226 --> 01:20:43,055
I think a smarter thing
to tell a person who's

1664
01:20:43,099 --> 01:20:45,318
trying to figure out
what they want to be

1665
01:20:45,362 --> 01:20:47,755
when they grow up,
is to say, "Put it all

1666
01:20:47,799 --> 01:20:49,235
on the table."

1667
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:52,456
And if you do that, you're
liable to be a very happy,

1668
01:20:52,499 --> 01:20:56,199
satisfied plumber,
making six figures a year,

1669
01:20:56,242 --> 01:21:01,769
or perhaps running our own
mechanical contract company.

1670
01:21:01,813 --> 01:21:07,906
It's not the job that
makes you happy, it's you.

1671
01:21:07,950 --> 01:21:10,039
SETH G: So what this
is really about is freedom.

1672
01:21:10,082 --> 01:21:12,606
It's about earning the
freedom to decide what

1673
01:21:12,650 --> 01:21:14,043
you wanna do next.

1674
01:21:14,086 --> 01:21:16,610
ANNOUNCER: David James Wilson,
Bachelor of Arts,

1675
01:21:16,654 --> 01:21:20,223
Business Administrations,
Summa Cum Laude.

1676
01:21:20,266 --> 01:21:22,573
ANTHONY: Here's a secret
to you about being successful.

1677
01:21:22,616 --> 01:21:25,402
You're not looking
at the picture today.

1678
01:21:25,445 --> 01:21:29,101
You're looking at the
end picture, what kind

1679
01:21:29,145 --> 01:21:33,497
of future do you want,
and the choice you're

1680
01:21:33,540 --> 01:21:36,282
making now will impact it.

1681
01:21:36,326 --> 01:21:39,851
DAVID: I can choose
what opportunities I want.

1682
01:21:39,895 --> 01:21:41,461
I can choose
where I want to live.

1683
01:21:41,505 --> 01:21:43,811
I can decide my job.

1684
01:21:43,855 --> 01:21:47,511
I can focus my time
on things that matter to me.

1685
01:21:47,554 --> 01:21:52,342
Which will lead to greater
satisfaction down the road.

1686
01:21:52,385 --> 01:21:55,562
The best feeling is knowing that
this journey that I'm starting

1687
01:21:55,606 --> 01:21:58,652
with the rest of life,
I don't have to carry

1688
01:21:58,696 --> 01:21:59,958
any baggage with me.

1689
01:22:00,002 --> 01:22:04,049
[uplifting music]
ANTHONY: Can you imagine getting

1690
01:22:04,093 --> 01:22:06,486
off that stage, going home,
walking into your

1691
01:22:06,530 --> 01:22:09,794
job for the very first
time, it's your career,

1692
01:22:09,837 --> 01:22:12,666
and when you get that
first paycheck, that

1693
01:22:12,710 --> 01:22:14,320
paycheck is yours?

1694
01:22:14,364 --> 01:22:18,629
[uplifting music continues]
Can you imagine having freedom

1695
01:22:18,672 --> 01:22:23,851
at 22, making 35, 40,
$45,000 a year?

1696
01:22:23,895 --> 01:22:27,507
[uplifting music continues]
Walking the stage debt-free

1697
01:22:27,551 --> 01:22:31,381
is not just about walking
the stage debt-free, but you're

1698
01:22:31,424 --> 01:22:33,209
walking into life debt-free.

1699
01:22:33,252 --> 01:22:43,175
[uplifting music ending]

1700
01:22:43,219 --> 01:22:44,220
["Polar Nights" playing]