1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
2
00:00:04,637 --> 00:00:06,667
‐Allegations swirl
that Russia has
3
00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:08,737
compromising information
about the president...
4
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
5
00:00:08,737 --> 00:00:11,407
‐...reports of an attempt
by the Russians
6
00:00:11,407 --> 00:00:13,607
to gather material
to blackmail the president.
7
00:00:13,607 --> 00:00:17,707
‐A secret dossier of allegations
about Donald Trump and Russia,
8
00:00:17,707 --> 00:00:20,367
all written by
a former member of MI6,
9
00:00:20,367 --> 00:00:23,207
he´s said to be lying low,
fearing for his safety.
10
00:00:23,207 --> 00:00:26,867
‐When the dossier was published,
it exploded onto the scene
11
00:00:26,867 --> 00:00:30,337
and at the heart of it
was this shadowy Russian expert.
12
00:00:30,337 --> 00:00:33,007
‐He´s kind of
quintessential spy.
13
00:00:33,007 --> 00:00:35,867
‐Everyone was trying
to find him.
14
00:00:35,867 --> 00:00:38,407
‐He´d slipped through
a crowd unnoticed,
15
00:00:38,407 --> 00:00:41,707
sort of seeing everything
that was going on.
16
00:00:41,707 --> 00:00:43,807
‐That now infamous dossier said
17
00:00:43,807 --> 00:00:45,707
that the Russian Federation
President Putin
18
00:00:45,707 --> 00:00:48,267
has compromising information
on President Trump.
19
00:00:48,267 --> 00:00:53,667
‐What these documents
alleged was extraordinary.
20
00:00:53,667 --> 00:00:56,067
‐Trump denying
unsubstantiated claims
21
00:00:56,067 --> 00:00:59,167
that he was caught on camera
in a Russian hotel room.
22
00:00:59,167 --> 00:01:02,137
‐It referred to the existence
of a tape.
23
00:01:02,137 --> 00:01:05,067
‐Supposedly a tape
showing prostitutes
24
00:01:05,067 --> 00:01:08,037
hired by Trump
urinating on a bed
25
00:01:08,037 --> 00:01:11,507
where President Obama
once slept.
26
00:01:11,507 --> 00:01:14,237
‐It was extraordinary to hear
the details.
27
00:01:14,237 --> 00:01:16,137
You almost had to look away.
28
00:01:16,137 --> 00:01:18,567
‐It quickly became a question
in Washington of
29
00:01:18,567 --> 00:01:21,107
how much of this was accurate
and what this meant
30
00:01:21,107 --> 00:01:22,967
for the future
of the Trump presidency.
31
00:01:22,967 --> 00:01:25,367
‐We also learned this week
that the DNC
32
00:01:25,367 --> 00:01:28,567
and the Clinton campaign
helped fund this dossier.
33
00:01:28,567 --> 00:01:30,067
‐It´s all fake news.
34
00:01:30,067 --> 00:01:32,707
It´s phony stuff.
It didn´t happen.
35
00:01:32,707 --> 00:01:34,267
‐This is a report
from the Internet,
36
00:01:34,267 --> 00:01:37,537
just rife with misspellings,
completely unverified.
37
00:01:37,537 --> 00:01:40,667
‐It was on a mission to get
Donald Trump.
38
00:01:40,667 --> 00:01:43,067
Senior congressional
Republicans
39
00:01:43,067 --> 00:01:44,637
are calling for
a criminal investigation
40
00:01:44,637 --> 00:01:46,907
into the author
of that infamous dossier.
41
00:01:46,907 --> 00:01:49,907
‐So much depends on
the credibility of the author.
42
00:01:49,907 --> 00:01:52,767
He has now been named
as Christopher Steele.
43
00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:56,237
♫♫
44
00:02:04,307 --> 00:02:07,567
‐There are many people who would
say Christopher Steele
45
00:02:07,567 --> 00:02:09,167
is an enigma.
46
00:02:12,107 --> 00:02:15,367
Is he a hero? Is he a traitor?
47
00:02:15,367 --> 00:02:20,907
‐An over the hill retired spy
who is making a living,
48
00:02:20,907 --> 00:02:26,337
selling his résumé
rather than selling facts.
49
00:02:26,337 --> 00:02:30,437
‐Christopher Steele is
a force for good.
50
00:02:32,807 --> 00:02:36,007
‐Christopher Steele is
quintessential civil servant.
51
00:02:36,007 --> 00:02:38,737
‐Even today ‐‐ a mystery.
52
00:02:38,737 --> 00:02:40,237
‐Christopher Steele is a guy
53
00:02:40,237 --> 00:02:42,607
who picked a fight
with two presidents ‐‐
54
00:02:42,607 --> 00:02:46,507
Donald Trump
and Vladimir Putin.
55
00:02:46,507 --> 00:02:50,567
And he´s lived
to tell the tale.
56
00:02:50,567 --> 00:02:52,667
‐All right, everybody.
57
00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:54,607
‐We´re going to mark it up.
58
00:02:54,607 --> 00:02:57,007
‐One.
59
00:02:57,007 --> 00:03:00,207
‐Most of the world first heard
your name about five years ago,
60
00:03:00,207 --> 00:03:02,567
but you stayed silent
up until now.
61
00:03:02,567 --> 00:03:04,507
Give me a declarative sentence.
62
00:03:04,507 --> 00:03:08,167
Christopher Steele is...
63
00:03:08,167 --> 00:03:10,937
‐A patriot.
64
00:03:10,937 --> 00:03:15,937
Somebody who has professional
integrity and expertise
65
00:03:15,937 --> 00:03:18,767
and somebody who is a...
66
00:03:18,767 --> 00:03:22,137
true friend and ally
of the United States.
67
00:03:22,137 --> 00:03:23,907
‐But when you bring
the information
68
00:03:23,907 --> 00:03:26,737
to the FBI in 2016,
69
00:03:26,737 --> 00:03:31,637
reacting as a patriot or a paid
private intelligence officer?
70
00:03:31,637 --> 00:03:33,267
‐As a patriot.
71
00:03:33,267 --> 00:03:35,667
‐And to those who say otherwise?
72
00:03:35,667 --> 00:03:37,837
‐I´d like to see
what proof they´ve got.
73
00:03:37,837 --> 00:03:40,867
‐You´ve been described
as desperate to make sure
74
00:03:40,867 --> 00:03:44,267
Donald Trump didn´t get elected.
Is that true?
75
00:03:44,267 --> 00:03:47,767
‐No, that´s not the kind of
thing I ever said.
76
00:03:47,767 --> 00:03:50,767
I was very concerned at the idea
that a candidate
77
00:03:50,767 --> 00:03:52,307
who might have been compromised
78
00:03:52,307 --> 00:03:54,707
by our enemies
might get elected,
79
00:03:54,707 --> 00:03:58,637
but only on the basis of that
information of our intelligence
80
00:03:58,637 --> 00:04:00,437
and not for any other reason.
81
00:04:00,437 --> 00:04:02,137
‐How do you respond to critics
who say
82
00:04:02,137 --> 00:04:04,037
you were doing
foreign interference
83
00:04:04,037 --> 00:04:05,407
in an American
political campaign?
84
00:04:05,407 --> 00:04:06,967
‐We were not
foreign interference.
85
00:04:06,967 --> 00:04:08,067
The foreign interference
86
00:04:08,067 --> 00:04:10,967
in the American political
campaign in 2016
87
00:04:10,967 --> 00:04:12,037
was by the Kremlin
88
00:04:12,037 --> 00:04:13,737
and the Russian intelligence
services.
89
00:04:13,737 --> 00:04:15,837
‐Well, you are British,
you´re not American.
90
00:04:15,837 --> 00:04:18,407
‐But Britain is America´s
closest ally.
91
00:04:18,407 --> 00:04:21,337
We have always had a track
record of helping America.
92
00:04:21,337 --> 00:04:23,307
It would have been very curious
93
00:04:23,307 --> 00:04:26,167
if what we had chosen
to do in 2016
94
00:04:26,167 --> 00:04:27,507
was not to tell them.
95
00:04:27,507 --> 00:04:30,237
It would have been unthinkable.
96
00:04:30,237 --> 00:04:33,167
‐Christopher Steele,
ex‐British intelligence officer,
97
00:04:33,167 --> 00:04:35,607
said to have prepared
dossier on Trump.
98
00:04:35,607 --> 00:04:37,607
It´s quite a headline to read,
I imagine.
99
00:04:37,607 --> 00:04:40,207
‐It certainly is when you´ve
spent your life
100
00:04:40,207 --> 00:04:44,637
in the shadows
behind the scenes.
101
00:04:44,637 --> 00:04:47,007
‐Let´s go back to the beginning.
102
00:04:47,007 --> 00:04:48,737
[ Camera shutter clicks ]
103
00:04:48,737 --> 00:04:51,907
‐So you graduate Cambridge
in ´86.
104
00:04:51,907 --> 00:04:53,967
You answered an ad
in a newspaper seeking people
105
00:04:53,967 --> 00:04:55,507
interested in working overseas.
106
00:04:55,507 --> 00:04:57,307
What was the ad?
107
00:04:57,307 --> 00:05:01,667
‐It was a genuine headhunters
advert and it said,
108
00:05:01,667 --> 00:05:03,737
"Would you be interested
in working for government
109
00:05:03,737 --> 00:05:05,037
as opposed
to the private sector?"
110
00:05:05,037 --> 00:05:07,907
And I said, yeah.
And the rest is history.
111
00:05:07,907 --> 00:05:11,007
‐I remember him phoning me
and asking me
112
00:05:11,007 --> 00:05:15,937
to be a reference for him,
for a job that he´d applied for.
113
00:05:15,937 --> 00:05:17,707
They were questions like,
114
00:05:17,707 --> 00:05:20,537
would you describe him
as a patriot?
115
00:05:20,537 --> 00:05:23,837
Would you describe him
as someone you could rely on?
116
00:05:23,837 --> 00:05:26,267
Is he a good chap
sort of thing.
117
00:05:26,267 --> 00:05:29,137
‐When did you know
it was MI6?
118
00:05:29,137 --> 00:05:31,667
‐I can´t comment on exactly
119
00:05:31,667 --> 00:05:33,607
what part
of government I was in,
120
00:05:33,607 --> 00:05:35,567
but it was quite clear early on
121
00:05:35,567 --> 00:05:38,667
that it would be a job
involving foreign affairs
122
00:05:38,667 --> 00:05:40,437
and it would involve
living abroad.
123
00:05:40,437 --> 00:05:42,707
‐Everyone knows you worked
for British intelligence.
124
00:05:42,707 --> 00:05:44,907
Why can´t you say so?
125
00:05:44,907 --> 00:05:47,107
‐There´s a convention
in this country and a rule,
126
00:05:47,107 --> 00:05:51,707
in fact, that crown servants
are not allowed to confirm
127
00:05:51,707 --> 00:05:54,667
or deny whether they´ve worked
for the intelligence services.
128
00:05:54,667 --> 00:05:57,337
We do things slightly
differently here.
129
00:05:57,337 --> 00:06:02,067
‐MI6 ‐‐ Military Intelligence
Section Six.
130
00:06:02,067 --> 00:06:03,837
These are basically the spies
131
00:06:03,837 --> 00:06:09,107
who operate only overseas
equivalent to the CIA.
132
00:06:09,107 --> 00:06:12,307
‐They travel abroad.
They assume undercover roles.
133
00:06:12,307 --> 00:06:15,137
And it´s all about
human interaction.
134
00:06:15,137 --> 00:06:18,237
‐MI6 is so secretive
that British government
135
00:06:18,237 --> 00:06:22,307
didn´t even acknowledge
it existed until the 1990s.
136
00:06:22,307 --> 00:06:23,767
‐Officially, on paper,
137
00:06:23,767 --> 00:06:28,967
his government service
was for the Foreign Office.
138
00:06:28,967 --> 00:06:31,867
‐Unofficially, he was
an intelligence operative,
139
00:06:31,867 --> 00:06:33,967
essentially a spy.
140
00:06:33,967 --> 00:06:37,007
‐I admire your luck, Mister...
141
00:06:37,007 --> 00:06:39,507
‐Bond.
142
00:06:39,507 --> 00:06:41,337
James Bond.
143
00:06:41,337 --> 00:06:45,337
‐We think British intelligence
and we think James Bond.
144
00:06:45,337 --> 00:06:47,367
‐I have got an Omega watch on
145
00:06:47,367 --> 00:06:48,867
and hopefully
I´ve got good manners,
146
00:06:48,867 --> 00:06:52,337
but I think that´s where
the comparison would end.
147
00:06:52,337 --> 00:06:54,767
‐I do think that he has
148
00:06:54,767 --> 00:06:59,967
that smoothness that
James Bond has.
149
00:06:59,967 --> 00:07:04,467
He wants your secrets
and he charms it out of you.
150
00:07:04,467 --> 00:07:07,037
‐You were recruited into
the Russian language program.
151
00:07:07,037 --> 00:07:09,367
‐I was offered the chance
to learn a hard language
152
00:07:09,367 --> 00:07:11,667
from the get go,
which is quite unusual.
153
00:07:11,667 --> 00:07:14,137
I had the choice of Arabic
or Russian and, um...
154
00:07:14,137 --> 00:07:15,607
‐Why Russian?
155
00:07:15,607 --> 00:07:17,837
‐I was interested
in Russian history and politics.
156
00:07:17,837 --> 00:07:21,007
I had studied it in university.
157
00:07:21,007 --> 00:07:24,237
‐I introduced Laura to Chris.
158
00:07:24,237 --> 00:07:26,337
She was a lovely person,
159
00:07:26,337 --> 00:07:28,807
a very upbeat person,
a very bright lady,
160
00:07:28,807 --> 00:07:32,207
and then in 1990,
they were married.
161
00:07:32,207 --> 00:07:36,137
‐She knew from when we got
together that her life
162
00:07:36,137 --> 00:07:37,537
might involve
163
00:07:37,537 --> 00:07:39,937
going to weird and wonderful
places and things like that.
164
00:07:39,937 --> 00:07:41,967
‐Did she know you were a spy?
165
00:07:41,967 --> 00:07:44,707
‐She knew what she needs
to know at the time about me.
166
00:07:44,707 --> 00:07:47,637
Yes.
167
00:07:47,637 --> 00:07:49,767
‐Mr. Gorbachev,
168
00:07:49,767 --> 00:07:52,067
tear down this wall.
169
00:07:52,067 --> 00:07:53,837
[ Cheers and applause ]
170
00:07:53,837 --> 00:07:59,037
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
171
00:07:59,037 --> 00:08:01,907
‐Chris and Laura
were heading to Russia.
172
00:08:01,907 --> 00:08:04,407
People in the Foreign Office
get sent to embassies
173
00:08:04,407 --> 00:08:05,707
and work in embassies overseas,
174
00:08:05,707 --> 00:08:09,107
so it wasn´t
a particular surprise.
175
00:08:09,107 --> 00:08:11,367
‐It was an extraordinary time
in Russia.
176
00:08:11,367 --> 00:08:16,937
I mean, it was unbelievable what
was going on almost every day.
177
00:08:16,937 --> 00:08:20,167
‐It was a pivotal moment
because within about 18 months,
178
00:08:20,167 --> 00:08:21,867
the Soviet Union collapsed.
179
00:08:21,867 --> 00:08:24,667
‐The hammer and sickle flag
was lowered over the Kremlin
180
00:08:24,667 --> 00:08:25,967
for the last time.
181
00:08:25,967 --> 00:08:29,937
The Soviet Union
has ceased to exist.
182
00:08:29,937 --> 00:08:34,167
‐I think the biggest concern was
the restrictive nature
183
00:08:34,167 --> 00:08:37,837
of the the life
that they would have over there.
184
00:08:37,837 --> 00:08:40,437
‐I visited on one occasion
and when we went for a walk,
185
00:08:40,437 --> 00:08:43,337
I said to Chris and Laura,
I don´t know if you´ve noticed,
186
00:08:43,337 --> 00:08:45,737
but there´s two chaps
behind that tree
187
00:08:45,737 --> 00:08:48,507
who are clearly looking at us.
188
00:08:48,507 --> 00:08:49,537
And they said,
"Oh, yeah, I know.
189
00:08:49,537 --> 00:08:51,567
"They follow us around
everywhere.
190
00:08:51,567 --> 00:08:54,537
"And from time to time
when we´re out,
191
00:08:54,537 --> 00:08:57,307
"they come into the house
and they clearly take things
192
00:08:57,307 --> 00:08:58,637
just to show they can."
193
00:08:58,637 --> 00:09:02,007
‐At one point, I think
Laura´s shoes were stolen.
194
00:09:02,007 --> 00:09:05,537
‐Yeah, that was before
a diplomatic reception.
195
00:09:05,537 --> 00:09:07,807
One of the tricks that
they used to play on us
196
00:09:07,807 --> 00:09:11,707
to try and destabilize us
and disrupt us
197
00:09:11,707 --> 00:09:15,367
was to come into your flat,
take something or move it around
198
00:09:15,367 --> 00:09:18,407
or switch your freezer off
so all your ice cream melted.
199
00:09:18,407 --> 00:09:20,167
‐But they want you to know
they were there.
200
00:09:20,167 --> 00:09:22,307
‐They wanted you to know
that they were ‐‐
201
00:09:22,307 --> 00:09:24,567
you were under their sort
of control and purview
202
00:09:24,567 --> 00:09:27,967
the whole time.
203
00:09:27,967 --> 00:09:32,167
‐When did you first hear
the name Vladimir Putin?
204
00:09:32,167 --> 00:09:33,567
‐That´s an interesting question,
205
00:09:33,567 --> 00:09:36,967
because there is a possibility
that in 1992,
206
00:09:36,967 --> 00:09:40,137
when I took a delegation
of senior officials
207
00:09:40,137 --> 00:09:41,467
to St. Petersburg
208
00:09:41,467 --> 00:09:43,307
that we actually met
Vladimir Putin.
209
00:09:43,307 --> 00:09:46,837
He may have my business card
from the time. I don´t know.
210
00:09:46,837 --> 00:09:50,707
I didn´t really hear about him
again until the late ´90s,
211
00:09:50,707 --> 00:09:53,007
effectively once
he had moved down to Moscow
212
00:09:53,007 --> 00:09:55,437
and started doing jobs
in the Kremlin.
213
00:09:55,437 --> 00:09:57,737
‐Well, let´s talk about Putin.
How much do we know about him?
214
00:09:57,737 --> 00:10:00,767
‐Not very much.
He is a former KGB spy.
215
00:10:00,767 --> 00:10:03,767
He headed the domestic
intelligence agency in Russia.
216
00:10:03,767 --> 00:10:06,067
He´s someone Russians don´t know
very much about
217
00:10:06,067 --> 00:10:07,637
considering his background.
218
00:10:07,637 --> 00:10:12,037
‐No sense at that time that
he would fundamentally change
219
00:10:12,037 --> 00:10:14,137
Russia´s trajectory.
220
00:10:14,137 --> 00:10:18,067
‐Vladimir Putin can be
Russia´s president forever,
221
00:10:18,067 --> 00:10:21,007
but what he really is
and always will be
222
00:10:21,007 --> 00:10:24,337
is a KGB agent.
223
00:10:24,337 --> 00:10:28,767
‐So Steele completes his posting
in Moscow after three years,
224
00:10:28,767 --> 00:10:32,667
which is the standard term
for a foreign posting with MI6.
225
00:10:32,667 --> 00:10:35,307
He comes back to London
and he starts a family
226
00:10:35,307 --> 00:10:37,167
with his young wife, Laura,
227
00:10:37,167 --> 00:10:41,137
and they end up having
three children together.
228
00:10:41,137 --> 00:10:44,537
The Cold War was very much
in the rearview mirror,
229
00:10:44,537 --> 00:10:47,137
and so, the Russia desk
was quite quiet
230
00:10:47,137 --> 00:10:51,737
at MI6
until Alexander Litvinenko.
231
00:10:51,737 --> 00:10:53,667
‐An outspoken former
Russian spy,
232
00:10:53,667 --> 00:10:55,407
is in intensive care tonight.
233
00:10:55,407 --> 00:10:57,867
His condition deteriorated
after friends
234
00:10:57,867 --> 00:11:02,067
say he was deliberately poisoned
for criticizing the Kremlin.
235
00:11:02,067 --> 00:11:05,637
‐Alexander Litvinenko having
worked for the Russians,
236
00:11:05,637 --> 00:11:09,007
he was outspoken
about Russia´s role
237
00:11:09,007 --> 00:11:13,307
in organized crime networks,
about human rights violations.
238
00:11:13,307 --> 00:11:18,637
He became a real thorn
in Putin´s side.
239
00:11:18,637 --> 00:11:21,967
And what happens to thorns
and Putin´s side?
240
00:11:21,967 --> 00:11:25,037
‐The former Russian spy,
mysteriously poisoned
241
00:11:25,037 --> 00:11:27,337
three weeks ago, has died.
242
00:11:31,037 --> 00:11:32,637
‐A real turning point
243
00:11:32,637 --> 00:11:36,237
was when the Russians
poisoned Litvinenko.
244
00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:41,807
Vladimir Putin was becoming
a much more dangerous leader.
245
00:11:41,807 --> 00:11:46,607
He was revealing
who he really is.
246
00:11:46,607 --> 00:11:48,867
‐You were investigating
that assassination.
247
00:11:48,867 --> 00:11:52,237
‐I can´t go into the exact
details of the investigation,
248
00:11:52,237 --> 00:11:54,267
but I think they are more
or less summed up
249
00:11:54,267 --> 00:11:55,867
in the public inquiry,
250
00:11:55,867 --> 00:11:58,907
which was that this was
a state‐sponsored operation
251
00:11:58,907 --> 00:12:02,207
that it was designed to kill
and to deter others.
252
00:12:02,207 --> 00:12:04,607
And the people that were
eventually indicted for it
253
00:12:04,607 --> 00:12:08,867
were clearly agents
of the Russian government.
254
00:12:08,867 --> 00:12:11,267
It was very clear that we were
dealing with a country
255
00:12:11,267 --> 00:12:12,907
which was not playing by
256
00:12:12,907 --> 00:12:15,007
the rules of
the international game
257
00:12:15,007 --> 00:12:16,867
and was becoming effectively
a rogue state.
258
00:12:16,867 --> 00:12:20,437
♫♫
259
00:12:26,107 --> 00:12:29,407
♫♫
260
00:12:35,537 --> 00:12:36,737
‐After almost 20 years,
261
00:12:36,737 --> 00:12:38,337
you retired
from British intelligence, why?
262
00:12:38,337 --> 00:12:41,867
‐It was me and my business
partner, Chris Burrows.
263
00:12:41,867 --> 00:12:43,437
We decided that we wanted
to move on.
264
00:12:43,437 --> 00:12:45,137
We wanted to do something
a bit different
265
00:12:45,137 --> 00:12:48,907
and we wanted to actually make
a bit of money to retire on.
266
00:12:48,907 --> 00:12:51,867
‐We started to formalize
the idea
267
00:12:51,867 --> 00:12:54,907
of starting
a business together.
268
00:12:54,907 --> 00:12:58,167
‐2009 ended up being
a pretty consequential year
269
00:12:58,167 --> 00:13:01,467
for Steele
because his wife, Laura,
270
00:13:01,467 --> 00:13:06,167
mother of his three children,
she dies at the age of 43.
271
00:13:06,167 --> 00:13:09,507
‐She died very quickly
because of health issues
272
00:13:09,507 --> 00:13:14,437
at exactly the same time that we
were starting up the business.
273
00:13:14,437 --> 00:13:16,937
You have to get
into survival mode.
274
00:13:16,937 --> 00:13:20,367
Having the children, of course,
is a massive motivating factor
275
00:13:20,367 --> 00:13:22,237
into keeping moving forward.
276
00:13:22,237 --> 00:13:24,407
I felt very determined
that I was going to go on
277
00:13:24,407 --> 00:13:25,907
and make a success of it
278
00:13:25,907 --> 00:13:28,207
for the children
that she´d left behind.
279
00:13:28,207 --> 00:13:32,267
♫♫
280
00:13:32,267 --> 00:13:34,007
‐Explain what this business is.
281
00:13:34,007 --> 00:13:36,337
It´s called Orbis,
what do you guys do?
282
00:13:36,337 --> 00:13:39,737
‐We are an human intelligence
gathering operation.
283
00:13:39,737 --> 00:13:42,707
We feed intelligence
into private clients
284
00:13:42,707 --> 00:13:45,807
as a way of helping them
make corporate decisions.
285
00:13:45,807 --> 00:13:47,507
‐And I thought a given Chris
knew Russia
286
00:13:47,507 --> 00:13:48,867
like the back of his hand,
287
00:13:48,867 --> 00:13:51,567
the best way to go into
the market would be to say,
288
00:13:51,567 --> 00:13:54,637
we know Russia better
than everyone else.
289
00:13:54,637 --> 00:13:59,137
[ Fanfare playing ]
290
00:13:59,137 --> 00:14:01,567
‐Most people think of spying
291
00:14:01,567 --> 00:14:05,607
as government spying ‐‐
the CIA, MI6,
292
00:14:05,607 --> 00:14:09,837
but there is this huge
hidden industry out there
293
00:14:09,837 --> 00:14:12,867
a industry of private
intelligence or private spying,
294
00:14:12,867 --> 00:14:16,037
folks who work for corporations,
295
00:14:16,037 --> 00:14:20,437
political parties digging up
dirt on their adversaries.
296
00:14:20,437 --> 00:14:23,907
It´s a tremendously
lucrative industry.
297
00:14:23,907 --> 00:14:26,837
‐So when someone says
you´re spies for hire,
298
00:14:26,837 --> 00:14:28,437
what does that make you think?
299
00:14:28,437 --> 00:14:29,907
‐I think it´s over simplistic.
300
00:14:29,907 --> 00:14:33,737
I mean, effectively,
we vet our clients.
301
00:14:33,737 --> 00:14:37,167
We reject clients that we don´t
think are fit and proper.
302
00:14:37,167 --> 00:14:41,307
[ Chanting indistinctly ]
303
00:14:41,307 --> 00:14:45,237
‐The year is 2010 and Orbis
has been in operation
304
00:14:45,237 --> 00:14:49,307
for less than a year
and got their first big job,
305
00:14:49,307 --> 00:14:51,737
which was looking into
suspicions of corruption
306
00:14:51,737 --> 00:14:55,507
in the bidding process
to host the 2018 FIFA World Cup.
307
00:14:55,507 --> 00:14:57,907
‐Thank you for bidding.
308
00:14:57,907 --> 00:14:59,437
‐I think everyone involved
in the bidding
309
00:14:59,437 --> 00:15:01,037
is serious competitors.
310
00:15:01,037 --> 00:15:03,507
You know, it´s a competition
like the president said.
311
00:15:03,507 --> 00:15:06,067
‐Russia was not seen
as a serious rival
312
00:15:06,067 --> 00:15:07,567
to the England bid.
313
00:15:07,567 --> 00:15:10,837
It was not considered
to be prepared enough
314
00:15:10,837 --> 00:15:14,367
to host a huge international
tournament like the World Cup.
315
00:15:14,367 --> 00:15:16,967
♫♫
316
00:15:16,967 --> 00:15:20,237
‐Russia was awarded the 2018
World Cup ahead of England
317
00:15:20,237 --> 00:15:21,507
and the joint bids of Spain,
318
00:15:21,507 --> 00:15:24,607
Portugal, and the Netherlands
Belgium.
319
00:15:33,167 --> 00:15:36,307
‐Steele says his intelligence
documents
320
00:15:36,307 --> 00:15:38,737
details of a conversation
at the highest levels
321
00:15:38,737 --> 00:15:42,967
of the Russian government about
efforts to bribe FIFA officials.
322
00:15:42,967 --> 00:15:45,737
‐I think it´s quite shocking
when you understand
323
00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:49,267
what´s really going on in
an organization like FIFA.
324
00:15:49,267 --> 00:15:51,737
It was very easy
to corrupt FIFA.
325
00:15:51,737 --> 00:15:54,437
The FBI is one of the few
organizations in the world
326
00:15:54,437 --> 00:15:55,737
which can actually act
327
00:15:55,737 --> 00:15:58,137
upon extraterritorial
intelligence.
328
00:15:58,137 --> 00:16:00,707
In this case,
bribes involving dollars
329
00:16:00,707 --> 00:16:02,567
or whatever in third countries.
330
00:16:02,567 --> 00:16:04,337
And that´s why we decided
they were the people
331
00:16:04,337 --> 00:16:05,907
we should take this to.
332
00:16:05,907 --> 00:16:08,067
‐The FBI, in particular,
was very interested.
333
00:16:08,067 --> 00:16:09,507
And they launched
an investigation
334
00:16:09,507 --> 00:16:14,907
which led
to certain prosecutions.
335
00:16:14,907 --> 00:16:17,667
‐The 14 defendants charged
in this indictment,
336
00:16:17,667 --> 00:16:22,837
what they did have in common
was greed, greed that drove them
337
00:16:22,837 --> 00:16:26,467
to use and exploit
their positions for cash.
338
00:16:26,467 --> 00:16:31,437
‐It was a stunning case,
and it was one that sparked
339
00:16:31,437 --> 00:16:34,907
Chris Steele´s
commercial work for the FBI.
340
00:16:34,907 --> 00:16:37,467
‐How did your relationship
with the FBI evolve
341
00:16:37,467 --> 00:16:39,037
after the FIFA case?
342
00:16:39,037 --> 00:16:42,307
After the FIFA case,
we worked closely with them
343
00:16:42,307 --> 00:16:44,437
on a number of their
investigations,
344
00:16:44,437 --> 00:16:46,967
things they tasked us on
and paid us for
345
00:16:46,967 --> 00:16:49,437
as you would a normal client.
346
00:16:49,437 --> 00:16:51,907
‐When Chris Steele went into
private business,
347
00:16:51,907 --> 00:16:53,637
he really was looking to cater
to all kinds
348
00:16:53,637 --> 00:16:55,267
of different clients.
349
00:16:55,267 --> 00:16:57,207
Anybody who really needed
350
00:16:57,207 --> 00:17:00,637
guidance and expertise
on business in Russia
351
00:17:00,637 --> 00:17:02,667
or in the former
Soviet Republics
352
00:17:02,667 --> 00:17:04,737
and one of those
potential clients
353
00:17:04,737 --> 00:17:07,067
was the Trump Organization.
354
00:17:07,067 --> 00:17:12,337
‐I promise you, this will be
a truly great not only hotel,
355
00:17:12,337 --> 00:17:15,607
but economic
development project.
356
00:17:15,607 --> 00:17:18,267
‐Did the Trump Organization
try to hire you?
357
00:17:18,267 --> 00:17:20,707
‐We were in preliminary
sort of discussions
358
00:17:20,707 --> 00:17:23,237
about potential business
partners in emerging markets,
359
00:17:23,237 --> 00:17:26,337
but it never came to the point
where we had a contract.
360
00:17:26,337 --> 00:17:27,907
‐Is Russia an emerging
market or no?
361
00:17:27,907 --> 00:17:31,137
‐Yeah, it´s probably one of
the main emerging markets.
362
00:17:31,137 --> 00:17:33,437
‐You had not met him,
but you had meet Ivanka.
363
00:17:33,437 --> 00:17:35,167
‐Back in 2007,
364
00:17:35,167 --> 00:17:38,837
I met Ivanka Trump in London
at a dinner.
365
00:17:38,837 --> 00:17:43,037
I was sat next to her
and we had a very good chat.
366
00:17:43,037 --> 00:17:45,467
We had found
some common ground.
367
00:17:45,467 --> 00:17:48,207
She was interested
in emerging markets
368
00:17:48,207 --> 00:17:49,467
and we agreed to stay in touch.
369
00:17:49,467 --> 00:17:51,007
And so we did.
370
00:17:51,007 --> 00:17:54,667
‐You were friends.
‐Yeah, we were.
371
00:17:54,667 --> 00:17:58,037
♫♫
372
00:17:58,037 --> 00:18:01,537
‐So Christopher Steele is
building his portfolio in Orbis,
373
00:18:01,537 --> 00:18:03,237
focusing on Russia.
374
00:18:03,237 --> 00:18:05,537
‐Three, two, one.
375
00:18:05,537 --> 00:18:09,137
‐At the same time,
you have Donald Trump,
376
00:18:09,137 --> 00:18:14,067
who for decades has always
wanted to build
377
00:18:14,067 --> 00:18:18,767
a Trump Tower in Moscow.
378
00:18:18,767 --> 00:18:21,207
‐Welcome to Moscow
379
00:18:21,207 --> 00:18:24,537
this year´s home
to the most gorgeous
380
00:18:24,537 --> 00:18:27,467
and breathtaking competition
in the universe.
381
00:18:27,467 --> 00:18:29,767
‐For Trump, hosting
the Miss Universe pageant
382
00:18:29,767 --> 00:18:33,467
in Moscow wasn´t just about
the pageant itself.
383
00:18:33,467 --> 00:18:36,907
He almost sort of used it
as a networking opportunity
384
00:18:36,907 --> 00:18:40,267
to mix with Russian elites.
385
00:18:40,267 --> 00:18:42,937
‐After Donald Trump landed
in Moscow,
386
00:18:42,937 --> 00:18:46,137
he had a room booked
at the Ritz‐Carlton Hotel,
387
00:18:46,137 --> 00:18:48,737
which is adjacent
to Red Square.
388
00:18:48,737 --> 00:18:52,667
‐Russian intelligence had
totally saturated
389
00:18:52,667 --> 00:18:54,537
the Ritz‐Carlton Hotel.
390
00:18:54,537 --> 00:18:57,237
There was a permanent
intelligence officer
391
00:18:57,237 --> 00:18:58,637
based at the hotel
392
00:18:58,637 --> 00:19:02,667
and it was his job to preside
over a network of cameras
393
00:19:02,667 --> 00:19:05,867
that were placed all over
the guest bedrooms.
394
00:19:05,867 --> 00:19:10,337
‐Donald Trump apparently very
dearly wanted Vladimir Putin
395
00:19:10,337 --> 00:19:13,337
to attend
the Miss Universe competition.
396
00:19:13,337 --> 00:19:16,367
He even went so far
as to send out a tweet
397
00:19:16,367 --> 00:19:18,637
a few months
before the competition
398
00:19:18,637 --> 00:19:21,037
that said, "Do you think
Putin will be going to
399
00:19:21,037 --> 00:19:24,407
"the Miss Universe pageant
in November in Moscow?
400
00:19:24,407 --> 00:19:27,037
If so, will he become
my new best friend?"
401
00:19:27,037 --> 00:19:29,437
‐Moscow right now
in the world is
402
00:19:29,437 --> 00:19:33,237
a very, very important place.
403
00:19:33,237 --> 00:19:37,267
‐Trump wanted a Trump Tower
in Moscow and Aras Agalarov
404
00:19:37,267 --> 00:19:39,967
was one of the biggest
developers in Moscow.
405
00:19:39,967 --> 00:19:44,007
His son, Emin, wanted a Trump
cameo for his new music video.
406
00:19:44,007 --> 00:19:47,237
‐[ Singing in foreign language ]
407
00:19:47,237 --> 00:19:50,137
‐He takes part in this video
408
00:19:50,137 --> 00:19:53,237
with the son
of this Russian oligarch
409
00:19:53,237 --> 00:19:56,337
who is financing
the competition.
410
00:19:56,337 --> 00:19:59,467
He delivers his signature
"You´re fired" line.
411
00:19:59,467 --> 00:20:02,707
‐Emin, wake up.
I´m really tired of you.
412
00:20:02,707 --> 00:20:04,737
You´re fired.
413
00:20:04,737 --> 00:20:07,167
♫♫
414
00:20:07,167 --> 00:20:09,867
‐After the pageant,
Donald Trump tweeted
415
00:20:09,867 --> 00:20:12,167
about what a great time
he´d had in Moscow
416
00:20:12,167 --> 00:20:16,867
and in capital letters,
"Trump Tower Moscow is next."
417
00:20:16,867 --> 00:20:20,037
‐We don´t know everything
that happened in those 36 hours
418
00:20:20,037 --> 00:20:24,967
that Donald Trump was in Moscow
for the Miss Universe pageant.
419
00:20:24,967 --> 00:20:27,707
But the questions around
what may have happened there
420
00:20:27,707 --> 00:20:30,537
have become
hugely consequential.
421
00:20:30,537 --> 00:20:35,037
♫♫
422
00:20:41,237 --> 00:20:43,937
‐Welcome to Super Tuesday,
the biggest night of voting
423
00:20:43,937 --> 00:20:45,967
in the most surprising
presidential race
424
00:20:45,967 --> 00:20:47,407
of our lifetime.
425
00:20:47,407 --> 00:20:52,107
‐In 2016, the US presidential
primaries are really ramping up.
426
00:20:52,107 --> 00:20:53,937
‐The polls have now closed
in every state
427
00:20:53,937 --> 00:20:55,237
and the results showed
Donald Trump
428
00:20:55,237 --> 00:20:57,837
and Hillary Clinton in
command of this race.
429
00:20:57,837 --> 00:21:00,637
‐This has been
an amazing evening.
430
00:21:00,637 --> 00:21:02,567
We´re going to make
America great again, folks.
431
00:21:02,567 --> 00:21:04,307
We´re going to
make it great again.
432
00:21:04,307 --> 00:21:05,907
‐As it´s clear that Donald Trump
433
00:21:05,907 --> 00:21:09,137
is becoming the frontrunner
for the Republican nomination,
434
00:21:09,137 --> 00:21:13,467
Christopher Steele
gets a call from Fusion GPS.
435
00:21:13,467 --> 00:21:17,007
‐Fusion GPS is a corporate
investigations firm
436
00:21:17,007 --> 00:21:22,767
created by two former reporter
for "The Wall Street Journal."
437
00:21:22,767 --> 00:21:24,537
One was Glenn Simpson.
438
00:21:24,537 --> 00:21:28,867
‐in the spring of 2016,
he approached you with a job.
439
00:21:28,867 --> 00:21:31,337
What exactly did he ask you
to look into?
440
00:21:31,337 --> 00:21:32,567
‐Two things, really.
441
00:21:32,567 --> 00:21:34,707
One was what
the Russians were doing
442
00:21:34,707 --> 00:21:37,737
in terms of potential
interference in the campaign
443
00:21:37,737 --> 00:21:40,107
and two, what the links
were between
444
00:21:40,107 --> 00:21:41,907
Trump and the Trump campaign
and Russia.
445
00:21:41,907 --> 00:21:44,307
♫♫
446
00:21:44,307 --> 00:21:47,067
‐Steele´s someone
who had already investigated
447
00:21:47,067 --> 00:21:49,107
and found evidence
of Russian involvement
448
00:21:49,107 --> 00:21:52,067
in European elections.
449
00:21:52,067 --> 00:21:53,907
‐So when someone comes to you
and says Russia
450
00:21:53,907 --> 00:21:55,837
might be interfering
in the American elections
451
00:21:55,837 --> 00:21:58,337
and wants your help, it´s not
coming as a complete surprise.
452
00:21:58,337 --> 00:21:59,807
‐Not at all, really.
453
00:21:59,807 --> 00:22:04,237
Essentially, we´d seen this kind
of almost this virus coming from
454
00:22:04,237 --> 00:22:07,407
the east through Eastern Europe
into Western Europe
455
00:22:07,407 --> 00:22:10,707
and then landing on your shores,
sadly, for yourselves.
456
00:22:10,707 --> 00:22:12,207
‐And what did you know
about Donald Trump
457
00:22:12,207 --> 00:22:15,137
before you took on
this project?
458
00:22:15,137 --> 00:22:16,337
‐Not a huge amount.
459
00:22:16,337 --> 00:22:17,937
Obviously,
I knew his daughter,
460
00:22:17,937 --> 00:22:19,367
but I didn´t really know
much about him.
461
00:22:19,367 --> 00:22:22,567
I knew he was a game show host
or something of that sort.
462
00:22:22,567 --> 00:22:23,867
‐You´re fired.
463
00:22:23,867 --> 00:22:24,967
‐It´s "The Apprentice,"
isn´t it,
464
00:22:24,967 --> 00:22:26,337
which is something we have
in this country.
465
00:22:26,337 --> 00:22:30,037
So I was aware
of what that was.
466
00:22:30,037 --> 00:22:32,637
‐During the Republican primary
in 2016,
467
00:22:32,637 --> 00:22:34,467
it was a Republican donor
468
00:22:34,467 --> 00:22:37,307
who actually commissioned
Fusion GPS
469
00:22:37,307 --> 00:22:40,107
to look into Donald Trump´s
business background.
470
00:22:40,107 --> 00:22:43,037
But as the Donald Trump emerged
as the front runner,
471
00:22:43,037 --> 00:22:46,767
the Republican donor dropped
his support for the effort,
472
00:22:46,767 --> 00:22:51,337
and Fusion GPS offered
their wares to the Democrats,
473
00:22:51,337 --> 00:22:55,637
who were interested
in what Fusion could learn.
474
00:22:55,637 --> 00:22:59,237
‐We don´t need another diagnosis
of the problem,
475
00:22:59,237 --> 00:23:04,007
we need solutions,
and that is what I am offering.
476
00:23:04,007 --> 00:23:05,467
‐Glenn Simpson is hiring you.
477
00:23:05,467 --> 00:23:08,137
Did you have any idea
who was paying him?
478
00:23:08,137 --> 00:23:11,307
‐He explained to begin with that
it was a law firm
479
00:23:11,307 --> 00:23:14,307
that was behind that project.
480
00:23:14,307 --> 00:23:17,807
That´s very common
in our business.
481
00:23:17,807 --> 00:23:20,837
We didn´t know immediately
which law firm it was.
482
00:23:20,837 --> 00:23:22,807
We found that out
after about a month.
483
00:23:22,807 --> 00:23:26,037
‐You knew then within a month
that the Clinton campaign
484
00:23:26,037 --> 00:23:28,567
in some fashion
was behind this.
485
00:23:28,567 --> 00:23:31,637
‐We knew that supporters of
Hillary Clinton were behind it.
486
00:23:31,637 --> 00:23:35,907
‐This election is a make
or break election
487
00:23:35,907 --> 00:23:39,067
in so many ways.
488
00:23:39,067 --> 00:23:40,667
‐But this is crossing a line
for you.
489
00:23:40,667 --> 00:23:42,307
This is the first time
490
00:23:42,307 --> 00:23:46,037
that you´re looking into
an American political candidate.
491
00:23:46,037 --> 00:23:48,037
Was there any debate
inside your firm?
492
00:23:48,037 --> 00:23:51,267
‐There´s always a debate on
every project that we take on.
493
00:23:51,267 --> 00:23:54,137
We realized it was potentially
quite a controversial project.
494
00:23:54,137 --> 00:23:55,737
But frankly, George,
when we went into it,
495
00:23:55,737 --> 00:24:00,107
we weren´t expecting
to find a great deal.
496
00:24:00,107 --> 00:24:02,107
‐For someone like
Christopher Steele,
497
00:24:02,107 --> 00:24:03,967
he had to decide,
498
00:24:03,967 --> 00:24:06,437
well, who are my clients
going to be?
499
00:24:06,437 --> 00:24:09,837
People who are corporate
investigators have to, you know,
500
00:24:09,837 --> 00:24:13,567
find their way through
all kinds of ethical minefields.
501
00:24:13,567 --> 00:24:15,807
If you talk about a gray area,
502
00:24:15,807 --> 00:24:19,607
gray might be the brighter side
of this industry.
503
00:24:19,607 --> 00:24:22,307
♫♫
504
00:24:22,307 --> 00:24:24,507
‐So you get this assignment.
What do you do?
505
00:24:24,507 --> 00:24:27,737
‐You essentially get
your network of sources
506
00:24:27,737 --> 00:24:29,867
to redirect themselves
507
00:24:29,867 --> 00:24:34,307
onto asking contacts in Russia
about this issue.
508
00:24:34,307 --> 00:24:35,567
To ask them to look into
509
00:24:35,567 --> 00:24:37,937
what was being said
among the elite in Russia
510
00:24:37,937 --> 00:24:40,937
and the government
of the American election.
511
00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,967
‐Was there one key source
you had for this report?
512
00:24:43,967 --> 00:24:45,807
‐There wasn´t one key source,
I would say.
513
00:24:45,807 --> 00:24:48,107
There was perhaps
one key collector.
514
00:24:48,107 --> 00:24:49,537
‐What´s a collector?
515
00:24:49,537 --> 00:24:51,867
‐A collector is somebody who
obviously works for us directly,
516
00:24:51,867 --> 00:24:53,737
is paid for us directly,
517
00:24:53,737 --> 00:24:56,537
doesn´t necessarily have
direct access to information,
518
00:24:56,537 --> 00:24:58,167
but knows people who do.
519
00:24:58,167 --> 00:25:00,907
‐How about your coverage of
Moscow politics and operations?
520
00:25:00,907 --> 00:25:02,537
You haven´t been to Moscow
since when?
521
00:25:02,537 --> 00:25:04,167
‐For a long time.
522
00:25:04,167 --> 00:25:06,807
‐Do you think that compromises
your ability to do this work?
523
00:25:06,807 --> 00:25:08,367
‐Absolutely not.
‐Why not?
524
00:25:08,367 --> 00:25:11,507
‐Because the people that we need
to go there, go there,
525
00:25:11,507 --> 00:25:15,167
and they do the job that is
required in a low‐key fashion.
526
00:25:15,167 --> 00:25:17,907
‐You can´t name this person,
but you met with this person
527
00:25:17,907 --> 00:25:20,407
in a European city
relatively early on?
528
00:25:20,407 --> 00:25:22,107
‐Yep.
529
00:25:22,107 --> 00:25:24,067
‐What did you learn
in that meeting?
530
00:25:24,067 --> 00:25:26,907
‐The contents of Report 080,
I think it was,
531
00:25:26,907 --> 00:25:30,807
which are well‐known
to the world.
532
00:25:30,807 --> 00:25:35,407
‐Report 80 or the first memo
in the so‐called Steele dossier
533
00:25:35,407 --> 00:25:37,637
was the most explosive.
534
00:25:37,637 --> 00:25:40,707
There were claims that members
of the Trump campaign
535
00:25:40,707 --> 00:25:43,107
had coordinated
with Russian officials
536
00:25:43,107 --> 00:25:48,437
and accepted a steady stream of
information on Hillary Clinton
537
00:25:48,437 --> 00:25:50,967
and some of Trump´s
other political rivals.
538
00:25:50,967 --> 00:25:55,107
♫♫
539
00:25:55,107 --> 00:25:57,067
‐The first report also claims
540
00:25:57,067 --> 00:25:59,637
"Trump´s unorthodox
behavior in Russia
541
00:25:59,637 --> 00:26:02,837
"over the years had provided
the authorities there
542
00:26:02,837 --> 00:26:04,907
"with enough embarrassing
material on him
543
00:26:04,907 --> 00:26:09,807
to be able to blackmail him
if they so wished."
544
00:26:09,807 --> 00:26:14,337
‐In other words, that the FSB,
the Russian security service,
545
00:26:14,337 --> 00:26:16,807
had kompromat on Donald Trump.
546
00:26:16,807 --> 00:26:20,037
♫♫
547
00:26:20,037 --> 00:26:24,907
‐Basically, kompromat
is blackmail in Russian,
548
00:26:24,907 --> 00:26:30,067
and it´s something that is going
to be used against you
549
00:26:30,067 --> 00:26:32,667
at some point
to politically destroy you
550
00:26:32,667 --> 00:26:34,207
whatever the case may be.
551
00:26:34,207 --> 00:26:38,107
♫♫
552
00:26:38,107 --> 00:26:40,707
‐What did you learn about
the kompromat in this meeting?
553
00:26:40,707 --> 00:26:43,267
‐The kompromat that related to
the hotel.
554
00:26:43,267 --> 00:26:45,467
‐This was the ‐‐ I mean,
for want of a better word,
555
00:26:45,467 --> 00:26:46,867
this is the pee tape.
556
00:26:46,867 --> 00:26:48,167
‐That´s part of it. Yes.
557
00:26:48,167 --> 00:26:49,307
‐What did he tell you?
558
00:26:49,307 --> 00:26:52,507
‐He relayed several
sources information,
559
00:26:52,507 --> 00:26:55,867
some sources information
that related to that event.
560
00:26:55,867 --> 00:26:57,867
‐In the Ritz‐Carlton Hotel.
‐Correct.
561
00:26:57,867 --> 00:27:00,067
‐2013.
‐Yep.
562
00:27:00,067 --> 00:27:03,537
♫♫
563
00:27:03,537 --> 00:27:06,067
‐In the case of Donald Trump,
564
00:27:06,067 --> 00:27:10,567
that kompromat
supposedly was a tape made
565
00:27:10,567 --> 00:27:13,667
in the Ritz‐Carlton in Moscow
566
00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:18,667
showing prostitutes hired
by Donald Trump
567
00:27:18,667 --> 00:27:21,537
urinating on a bed
568
00:27:21,537 --> 00:27:26,307
where President Obama
and his wife once slept.
569
00:27:26,307 --> 00:27:30,467
It would be quite a tape
if it in fact existed.
570
00:27:30,467 --> 00:27:31,967
‐When you heard
this information,
571
00:27:31,967 --> 00:27:33,467
what was your reaction?
572
00:27:33,467 --> 00:27:35,967
‐I was surprised and shocked.
573
00:27:35,967 --> 00:27:38,837
But having said that,
some of the things
574
00:27:38,837 --> 00:27:41,507
that we were being told
were clearly aspects
575
00:27:41,507 --> 00:27:44,707
of well‐known Russian M. O.,
modus operandi.
576
00:27:44,707 --> 00:27:46,537
‐Sex tapes were standard
operating procedure.
577
00:27:46,537 --> 00:27:50,007
‐Correct.
578
00:27:50,007 --> 00:27:53,037
‐I remember him saying,
what do you make of this?
579
00:27:53,037 --> 00:27:54,367
And I read through it
and I thought,
580
00:27:54,367 --> 00:27:57,837
"Gosh, that is actually
quite ‐‐ quite serious."
581
00:27:57,837 --> 00:27:59,067
‐Did you believe it?
582
00:27:59,067 --> 00:28:00,837
‐We had no reason
to disbelieve it.
583
00:28:00,837 --> 00:28:02,707
We had no reason strongly
to believe it.
584
00:28:02,707 --> 00:28:05,307
We had to then try
and evaluate it,
585
00:28:05,307 --> 00:28:06,867
validate it or whatever.
586
00:28:06,867 --> 00:28:09,107
And in an instance like that,
587
00:28:09,107 --> 00:28:10,407
there was a limited range
of things
588
00:28:10,407 --> 00:28:11,837
you could do, which we did.
589
00:28:11,837 --> 00:28:14,767
We checked dates,
where people´s movements ‐‐
590
00:28:14,767 --> 00:28:16,207
‐And he was there?
‐Yes.
591
00:28:16,207 --> 00:28:18,967
‐Bearing in mind, this was raw
intelligence in the sense
592
00:28:18,967 --> 00:28:22,667
that what we sent over
was the initial findings.
593
00:28:22,667 --> 00:28:24,407
‐With raw intelligence,
you´re thinking of it as,
594
00:28:24,407 --> 00:28:25,567
hey, I´ve heard of this thing,
595
00:28:25,567 --> 00:28:27,437
we might want to
look into it more.
596
00:28:27,437 --> 00:28:29,537
‐If this is true in the moment,
597
00:28:29,537 --> 00:28:31,507
I mean,
this is the stuff of movies.
598
00:28:31,507 --> 00:28:34,167
‐I think a lot of this
is the stuff of movies.
599
00:28:34,167 --> 00:28:37,337
But in Russia, actually,
it´s not in Russia,
600
00:28:37,337 --> 00:28:39,667
it´s actually
fairly standard fare.
601
00:28:39,667 --> 00:28:40,907
‐If I´m hearing you correctly,
602
00:28:40,907 --> 00:28:44,107
you´re saying that you
first found it credible,
603
00:28:44,107 --> 00:28:47,567
not so much of Donald Trump,
but because of Vladimir Putin.
604
00:28:47,567 --> 00:28:49,167
‐Yes.
605
00:28:49,167 --> 00:28:52,537
‐Did it immediately change your
view in any way of Donald Trump?
606
00:28:52,537 --> 00:28:55,567
‐It meant that
for the first time,
607
00:28:55,567 --> 00:28:58,707
there was a potentially serious
situation of kompromat
608
00:28:58,707 --> 00:29:03,367
against
the presidential candidate.
609
00:29:03,367 --> 00:29:06,037
‐We found your first memo,
June 20th, 2016.
610
00:29:06,037 --> 00:29:07,567
‐Yep.
611
00:29:07,567 --> 00:29:10,237
‐We had a debate, obviously,
about the golden showers thing.
612
00:29:10,237 --> 00:29:12,067
I said, don´t put that in.
613
00:29:12,067 --> 00:29:15,237
It sort of detracts
from the key message here
614
00:29:15,237 --> 00:29:18,167
that the Russians have actually
been monitoring
615
00:29:18,167 --> 00:29:20,537
and cultivating Trump
for years.
616
00:29:20,537 --> 00:29:23,107
‐Chris Burrows thought it was
a mistake to put it in.
617
00:29:23,107 --> 00:29:24,637
‐It wasn´t just Chris.
618
00:29:24,637 --> 00:29:27,707
I think my wife also thought it
shouldn´t be in there.
619
00:29:27,707 --> 00:29:31,537
‐By then, Chris had remarried
now to his wife, Katherine,
620
00:29:31,537 --> 00:29:36,207
who he had known before
in his previous government work.
621
00:29:36,207 --> 00:29:37,537
‐My view has always been that
622
00:29:37,537 --> 00:29:39,907
we have to stay true
to the intelligence.
623
00:29:39,907 --> 00:29:41,607
I´ve seen situations
in the past
624
00:29:41,607 --> 00:29:44,307
where things have been
smoothed off from the edges,
625
00:29:44,307 --> 00:29:46,437
where things that might seem
a bit outlandish
626
00:29:46,437 --> 00:29:48,267
have been left out
and so on and so forth.
627
00:29:48,267 --> 00:29:50,467
And to me, that´s wrong.
628
00:29:50,467 --> 00:29:52,167
‐Golden rule for golden showers,
629
00:29:52,167 --> 00:29:54,367
you just don´t talk about sex
in reports.
630
00:29:54,367 --> 00:29:56,737
This is a serious business.
631
00:29:56,737 --> 00:29:59,337
We are there
to objectively report things.
632
00:29:59,337 --> 00:30:00,907
I said, take out
the pee pee tape.
633
00:30:00,907 --> 00:30:03,467
Please take out
the pee pee type.
634
00:30:03,467 --> 00:30:04,967
‐How do you respond to that?
635
00:30:04,967 --> 00:30:08,067
‐I would quite like not to have
to talk about sex in reports.
636
00:30:08,067 --> 00:30:10,537
But when you have
an organization like the FSB,
637
00:30:10,537 --> 00:30:14,407
you cannot ignore that
as a factor in these situations.
638
00:30:14,407 --> 00:30:15,507
If you have confidence in
639
00:30:15,507 --> 00:30:17,067
the track record
of your sources,
640
00:30:17,067 --> 00:30:20,407
you have to reflect accurately
what they tell you.
641
00:30:20,407 --> 00:30:22,767
‐We suddenly found ourselves
with a hot potato.
642
00:30:22,767 --> 00:30:26,337
We didn´t know
quite what all of this meant.
643
00:30:26,337 --> 00:30:30,107
‐We immediately decided that we
had to report it into the FBI.
644
00:30:30,107 --> 00:30:32,437
‐Immediately?
‐Within a week.
645
00:30:32,437 --> 00:30:34,907
‐Because of the implications?
646
00:30:34,907 --> 00:30:38,907
‐Absolutely. So as you know,
Britain and America
647
00:30:38,907 --> 00:30:40,407
just from a U. K. stance,
648
00:30:40,407 --> 00:30:45,907
have a very close relationship
and any threat to the integrity
649
00:30:45,907 --> 00:30:49,537
of the U. S. political system
and leadership
650
00:30:49,537 --> 00:30:52,167
is a serious threat
to the U. K.
651
00:30:52,167 --> 00:30:57,037
♫♫
652
00:30:57,037 --> 00:30:58,867
‐In early July 2016,
653
00:30:58,867 --> 00:31:03,307
Steele calls his contact at
the FBI and sets up a meeting.
654
00:31:03,307 --> 00:31:04,867
‐I said that Fusion GPS was
the client
655
00:31:04,867 --> 00:31:07,207
and behind Fusion GPS,
656
00:31:07,207 --> 00:31:09,867
there was a law firm
that was connected with
657
00:31:09,867 --> 00:31:11,637
trying to get Hillary Clinton
elected president.
658
00:31:11,637 --> 00:31:12,867
‐You definitely mentioned
Hillary Clinton?
659
00:31:12,867 --> 00:31:13,967
‐Yes.
660
00:31:13,967 --> 00:31:15,637
‐All this was happening
at a time
661
00:31:15,637 --> 00:31:18,707
when Russia had really emerged
662
00:31:18,707 --> 00:31:22,807
as a giant question mark
during the campaign.
663
00:31:22,807 --> 00:31:25,037
A few weeks earlier,
news had broken
664
00:31:25,037 --> 00:31:29,867
that Russian hackers
had infiltrated DNC networks.
665
00:31:29,867 --> 00:31:31,307
‐Just in to CNN,
666
00:31:31,307 --> 00:31:34,307
Russian hackers managed to
infiltrate the computer network
667
00:31:34,307 --> 00:31:36,107
at the Democratic
National Committee.
668
00:31:36,107 --> 00:31:38,667
‐At the same time, you have
all this controversy
669
00:31:38,667 --> 00:31:40,067
about Hillary Clinton´s
670
00:31:40,067 --> 00:31:43,537
e‐mails possibly being stored
on a private server,
671
00:31:43,537 --> 00:31:46,937
all of which is of keen interest
to Donald Trump.
672
00:31:46,937 --> 00:31:49,837
‐Because we are going to make
673
00:31:49,837 --> 00:31:53,637
our country great again.
674
00:31:53,637 --> 00:31:56,707
‐So there´s no question that
the Russians were trying
675
00:31:56,707 --> 00:32:01,437
to interfere
in the 2016 campaign.
676
00:32:01,437 --> 00:32:05,667
There is no question
that Donald Trump
677
00:32:05,667 --> 00:32:07,237
welcomed that interference.
678
00:32:07,237 --> 00:32:09,607
‐People were whispering
about Donald Trump
679
00:32:09,607 --> 00:32:12,867
and his affinity
for Vladimir Putin.
680
00:32:12,867 --> 00:32:17,837
Then he comes right out
and asks Russia to help him.
681
00:32:17,837 --> 00:32:19,837
‐Russia, if you´re listening,
682
00:32:19,837 --> 00:32:24,937
I hope you´re able to
find the 30,000 e‐mails
683
00:32:24,937 --> 00:32:26,467
that are missing.
684
00:32:26,467 --> 00:32:31,037
If Russia or China or any other
country has those e‐mails,
685
00:32:31,037 --> 00:32:33,207
I mean, to be honest with you,
I´d love to see them.
686
00:32:33,207 --> 00:32:35,307
‐When you saw that
press conference where
687
00:32:35,307 --> 00:32:39,937
Donald Trump asked the Russians
to find Clinton´s e‐mails.
688
00:32:39,937 --> 00:32:41,537
‐I almost fell off my seat.
689
00:32:41,537 --> 00:32:43,567
I mean, it was unprecedented,
wasn´t it?
690
00:32:43,567 --> 00:32:45,607
From what I know to ask
a foreign power
691
00:32:45,607 --> 00:32:49,307
to commit a crime,
to help a candidate
692
00:32:49,307 --> 00:32:54,537
or whatever perceived
to progress?
693
00:32:54,537 --> 00:32:56,037
‐Yeah, that was supposed
to be a joke, right?
694
00:32:56,037 --> 00:32:57,507
‐Said he was joking.
695
00:32:57,507 --> 00:32:59,267
‐He always says he´s joking
whenever he says
696
00:32:59,267 --> 00:33:00,867
something outrageous.
697
00:33:00,867 --> 00:33:02,807
Didn´t sound as though
he was joking to me.
698
00:33:02,807 --> 00:33:05,207
‐Did the Russians hear it
as a joke?
699
00:33:05,207 --> 00:33:07,137
‐I think five hours later
or something,
700
00:33:07,137 --> 00:33:09,567
there was evidence
that they started attacking
701
00:33:09,567 --> 00:33:11,637
Hillary Clinton´s
communication.
702
00:33:11,637 --> 00:33:14,807
Doesn´t sound like a joke
to my mind.
703
00:33:14,807 --> 00:33:18,237
‐So you believe Donald Trump
was colluding with the Russians?
704
00:33:18,237 --> 00:33:22,107
‐I think the evidence suggests
that, yes.
705
00:33:22,107 --> 00:33:24,137
‐So over a series of months,
706
00:33:24,137 --> 00:33:27,637
Chris Steele would file more
than a dozen of these memos.
707
00:33:27,637 --> 00:33:31,107
‐You´re continuing through
the summer to write these memos,
708
00:33:31,107 --> 00:33:33,437
and they´re now known
as the Steele dossier.
709
00:33:33,437 --> 00:33:35,507
‐Correct.
‐You don´t like that term.
710
00:33:35,507 --> 00:33:37,567
‐I don´t, because
it wasn´t the dossier.
711
00:33:37,567 --> 00:33:38,737
‐Why not?
712
00:33:38,737 --> 00:33:42,137
‐Because it´s a series of
reports on a live issue,
713
00:33:42,137 --> 00:33:44,937
the election campaign,
running through time.
714
00:33:44,937 --> 00:33:49,207
These reports were not collated
and presented in one offering,
715
00:33:49,207 --> 00:33:51,867
nor were they analyzed
in detail by us.
716
00:33:51,867 --> 00:33:54,267
Effectively,
it was a running commentary.
717
00:33:54,267 --> 00:33:56,207
It wasn´t a dossier.
718
00:33:56,207 --> 00:33:59,437
‐I hope that we get along great
with Putin because
719
00:33:59,437 --> 00:34:02,967
it would be great to have Russia
with a good relationship.
720
00:34:02,967 --> 00:34:04,937
Right now, we don´t have
a good relationship.
721
00:34:04,937 --> 00:34:06,907
‐Essentially, there were four
basic themes
722
00:34:06,907 --> 00:34:08,407
that run through it.
723
00:34:08,407 --> 00:34:12,237
One was there was a large scale
Russian interference campaign
724
00:34:12,237 --> 00:34:14,867
in the American election
in 2016.
725
00:34:14,867 --> 00:34:18,137
The second was that this had
been authorized and ordered
726
00:34:18,137 --> 00:34:21,507
at the highest levels,
including Putin.
727
00:34:21,507 --> 00:34:23,737
The third had been that
the objective of this
728
00:34:23,737 --> 00:34:26,307
was to damage Hillary Clinton
729
00:34:26,307 --> 00:34:29,307
and to try and get this
rather unorthodox candidate,
730
00:34:29,307 --> 00:34:31,137
Donald Trump elected.
731
00:34:31,137 --> 00:34:33,337
And the fourth was there
was evidence of collusion
732
00:34:33,337 --> 00:34:35,807
between people around Trump
and the Russians.
733
00:34:35,807 --> 00:34:42,107
These 17 memos or reports
list a number of occurrences
734
00:34:42,107 --> 00:34:44,567
and alleged links
between members of
735
00:34:44,567 --> 00:34:47,367
the Trump campaign
and Moscow,
736
00:34:47,367 --> 00:34:50,907
including allegations of
evidence of extensive conspiracy
737
00:34:50,907 --> 00:34:53,867
between Trump´s campaign team
and the Kremlin
738
00:34:53,867 --> 00:34:56,767
and evidence that the Kremlin
was behind the recent appearance
739
00:34:56,767 --> 00:34:59,367
of DNC e‐mails on WikiLeaks.
740
00:34:59,367 --> 00:35:01,267
‐Separate in part from
Christopher Steele,
741
00:35:01,267 --> 00:35:03,807
the FBI already launched
an investigation
742
00:35:03,807 --> 00:35:08,967
looking into Russia´s attempts
to influence the 2016 election
743
00:35:08,967 --> 00:35:11,437
and whether there were
any people associated with
744
00:35:11,437 --> 00:35:14,067
the Trump campaign
who supported it.
745
00:35:14,067 --> 00:35:16,567
‐It was what became known
as a Crossfire hurricane team.
746
00:35:16,567 --> 00:35:19,537
The notion that the Steele
dossier prompted the FBI
747
00:35:19,537 --> 00:35:21,467
to launch their investigation.
748
00:35:21,467 --> 00:35:23,667
The facts would suggest
otherwise.
749
00:35:23,667 --> 00:35:24,807
‐One of the things that
Chris Steele
750
00:35:24,807 --> 00:35:26,467
wanted at this point,
751
00:35:26,467 --> 00:35:31,537
he wanted the U. S. government
to take him seriously.
752
00:35:31,537 --> 00:35:35,067
‐As we´re getting closer
to the election,
753
00:35:35,067 --> 00:35:38,167
are you getting frustrated
with the FBI?
754
00:35:38,167 --> 00:35:41,137
‐A little bit, because it turns
out that our reporting
755
00:35:41,137 --> 00:35:44,007
had been sitting in the cupboard
in New York for six weeks.
756
00:35:44,007 --> 00:35:47,467
My impression is from everything
I´ve read subsequently
757
00:35:47,467 --> 00:35:51,307
that the reporting that we had
started feeding to the FBI
758
00:35:51,307 --> 00:35:55,367
in early July 2016
did not reach
759
00:35:55,367 --> 00:35:58,337
the Crossfire hurricane team
until late‐ish September.
760
00:35:58,337 --> 00:36:01,037
‐And you still don´t know why.
‐No. Oh, dear.
761
00:36:01,037 --> 00:36:03,567
It´s probably ‐‐
I´m not a conspiracy theorist.
762
00:36:03,567 --> 00:36:05,907
I think it was probably just...
763
00:36:05,907 --> 00:36:08,267
‐Well, a lot of people believe
you are a conspiracy theorist,
764
00:36:08,267 --> 00:36:10,567
‐But I´m not a conspiracy
theorist.
765
00:36:10,567 --> 00:36:12,567
And so,
I imagine it was through
766
00:36:12,567 --> 00:36:14,967
some kind of misunderstanding
or incompetence.
767
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:17,607
‐You fly to D. C.
because you´ve decided
768
00:36:17,607 --> 00:36:19,567
to have off the record meetings
with journalist
769
00:36:19,567 --> 00:36:22,307
at the Tabard Inn.
‐Mm‐hmm.
770
00:36:22,307 --> 00:36:26,007
Fusion wanted an off the record
briefing for journalists
771
00:36:26,007 --> 00:36:29,367
to stimulate them
into looking into the issues.
772
00:36:29,367 --> 00:36:31,537
‐It was in the fall of 2016.
773
00:36:31,537 --> 00:36:34,737
The campaign was
really going full speed.
774
00:36:34,737 --> 00:36:38,507
I get a call from Glenn Simpson
about one of the key sources
775
00:36:38,507 --> 00:36:40,837
gathering material
for his research
776
00:36:40,837 --> 00:36:42,807
about Donald Trump and Russia.
777
00:36:42,807 --> 00:36:45,707
And he asked if I would
come over and meet with him.
778
00:36:45,707 --> 00:36:48,737
I was asked not to bring
my cellphone.
779
00:36:48,737 --> 00:36:51,037
Was all very cloak and dagger.
780
00:36:51,037 --> 00:36:54,667
I remember walking up the stairs
wondering who is this guy
781
00:36:54,667 --> 00:36:56,367
that I´m going to be meeting?
782
00:36:56,367 --> 00:36:57,937
We sat down
at a conference table.
783
00:36:57,937 --> 00:37:00,237
I sat across
from Chris Steele.
784
00:37:00,237 --> 00:37:04,137
He was explicit about
what he thought the Russians
785
00:37:04,137 --> 00:37:06,307
knew about Donald Trump
786
00:37:06,307 --> 00:37:11,507
and about the possible existence
of a compromising videotape.
787
00:37:11,507 --> 00:37:14,967
It was being shopped
all over the place,
788
00:37:14,967 --> 00:37:19,107
and everyone to whom
the dossier was shared,
789
00:37:19,107 --> 00:37:21,007
sent reporters out,
790
00:37:21,007 --> 00:37:25,737
tried to confirm
the basic allegations within it.
791
00:37:25,737 --> 00:37:28,567
And it never got any traction
792
00:37:28,567 --> 00:37:32,307
because no one could nail
anything in it down.
793
00:37:32,307 --> 00:37:36,067
♫♫
794
00:37:36,067 --> 00:37:39,767
‐Then in October 2016,
three months after you
795
00:37:39,767 --> 00:37:44,407
initially alerted the FBI,
a team of agents fly to Rome
796
00:37:44,407 --> 00:37:45,507
to meet with you
about these allegations.
797
00:37:45,507 --> 00:37:46,807
‐Yes. Correct.
798
00:37:46,807 --> 00:37:49,307
‐You got an election
that´s coming down to the wire
799
00:37:49,307 --> 00:37:53,207
and the FBI
is on a plane flying to Rome
800
00:37:53,207 --> 00:37:55,867
to see if there´s information
about a plot
801
00:37:55,867 --> 00:37:58,207
to undermine the U. S. election.
802
00:37:58,207 --> 00:38:01,267
‐Weeks away from a presidential
election, were they concerned?
803
00:38:01,267 --> 00:38:03,767
‐Absolutely.
They were very concerned.
804
00:38:03,767 --> 00:38:04,907
‐About?
805
00:38:04,907 --> 00:38:07,367
‐About the whole issue
of interference
806
00:38:07,367 --> 00:38:10,507
and about whether people
in the campaign ‐‐
807
00:38:10,507 --> 00:38:14,367
Trump campaign
had been colluding with Russia.
808
00:38:14,367 --> 00:38:17,767
‐Is it fair to say
that by October 16th,
809
00:38:17,767 --> 00:38:22,937
you believe that if Donald Trump
is elected president,
810
00:38:22,937 --> 00:38:26,507
it would compromise American
and Western national security?
811
00:38:26,507 --> 00:38:28,807
‐It could, yes, if the reporting
was accurate
812
00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:30,337
and there was a risk
that it obviously
813
00:38:30,337 --> 00:38:32,867
was because
it was credible reporting.
814
00:38:32,867 --> 00:38:36,037
‐A new possible investigation
by the FBI.
815
00:38:36,037 --> 00:38:38,537
‐The FBI director
sending this to Congress
816
00:38:38,537 --> 00:38:41,137
that the criminal investigation
of Hillary Clinton,
817
00:38:41,137 --> 00:38:43,707
the former secretary of state,
is back on.
818
00:38:43,707 --> 00:38:47,767
‐On October 28, 2016,
talk about October surprise.
819
00:38:47,767 --> 00:38:49,767
Suddenly, there´s this
blockbuster days
820
00:38:49,767 --> 00:38:52,067
before the election
821
00:38:52,067 --> 00:38:54,737
that the FBI is investigating
Hillary Clinton.
822
00:38:54,737 --> 00:38:56,567
‐You thought there was
a double standard at work?
823
00:38:56,567 --> 00:38:58,637
‐There was.
‐You still believe that?
824
00:38:58,637 --> 00:39:00,007
‐Yes.
825
00:39:00,007 --> 00:39:02,237
‐The Department of Justice
has a longstanding policy
826
00:39:02,237 --> 00:39:04,437
not to confirm
or deny the existence
827
00:39:04,437 --> 00:39:06,237
of an ongoing investigation.
828
00:39:06,237 --> 00:39:10,137
That becomes very important
in the run up to an election.
829
00:39:10,137 --> 00:39:13,467
The role of
prosecutors, investigators
830
00:39:13,467 --> 00:39:17,507
is not to influence
the outcome of an election.
831
00:39:17,507 --> 00:39:19,467
‐At the end of October,
you took an even more
832
00:39:19,467 --> 00:39:20,967
direct approach with the press.
833
00:39:20,967 --> 00:39:23,407
You reached out
to "Mother Jones."
834
00:39:23,407 --> 00:39:26,137
‐What happened was I gave
a fairly limited briefing,
835
00:39:26,137 --> 00:39:28,037
which ended up
being sort of half
836
00:39:28,037 --> 00:39:29,867
on the record,
half off the record.
837
00:39:29,867 --> 00:39:31,367
‐A new report from
"Mother Jones"
838
00:39:31,367 --> 00:39:34,407
claims a Russian operation
has been working for years
839
00:39:34,407 --> 00:39:36,967
to cultivate
and assist Donald Trump.
840
00:39:36,967 --> 00:39:39,867
‐He didn´t name me, but he made
some direct references
841
00:39:39,867 --> 00:39:42,337
that might have allowed me
to be identified.
842
00:39:42,337 --> 00:39:44,707
I´d say it was
a very unsatisfactory
843
00:39:44,707 --> 00:39:47,107
outcome and situation,
I think.
844
00:39:47,107 --> 00:39:51,437
‐Chris asked
to see me in person.
845
00:39:51,437 --> 00:39:52,737
So he´d said,
846
00:39:52,737 --> 00:39:55,037
I´m a bit concerned
about my exposure here.
847
00:39:55,037 --> 00:39:59,037
And I said, yeah, I think you´ve
started a train down a track
848
00:39:59,037 --> 00:40:00,867
and it´s going to be
very difficult to stop it.
849
00:40:00,867 --> 00:40:02,537
‐Now, the story says
that a former
850
00:40:02,537 --> 00:40:04,367
senior intelligence officer
851
00:40:04,367 --> 00:40:07,237
claims he gave the FBI evidence
that quote,
852
00:40:07,237 --> 00:40:10,467
"There was an established
exchange of information
853
00:40:10,467 --> 00:40:11,567
"between the Trump campaign
854
00:40:11,567 --> 00:40:14,637
and the Kremlin
of mutual benefit."
855
00:40:14,637 --> 00:40:16,307
‐"Mother Jones" is the first one
to report the existence
856
00:40:16,307 --> 00:40:17,837
of the dossier.
857
00:40:17,837 --> 00:40:20,037
‐After Steele
goes to "Mother Jones,"
858
00:40:20,037 --> 00:40:24,207
the FBI now determines he´s
untrustworthy and unreliable
859
00:40:24,207 --> 00:40:28,267
as a source, and they sever
their ties with him.
860
00:40:28,267 --> 00:40:31,407
‐Was it a mistake to speak
with "Mother Jones"?
861
00:40:31,407 --> 00:40:33,037
‐I regret having done so.
862
00:40:33,037 --> 00:40:35,767
Ultimately, that led to
a whole series of events
863
00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:40,107
that bring me
to this chair today, George.
864
00:40:40,107 --> 00:40:44,367
♫♫
865
00:40:48,467 --> 00:40:50,537
‐We are waiting to hear
from Donald Trump.
866
00:40:50,537 --> 00:40:52,937
He is supposed to come down
and address his supporters.
867
00:40:52,937 --> 00:40:56,407
November 8, 2016,
Donald Trump is elected.
868
00:40:56,407 --> 00:40:58,937
‐Thank you.
‐Where were you?
869
00:40:58,937 --> 00:41:02,907
‐I was in my house hiding
under the duvet somewhere.
870
00:41:02,907 --> 00:41:05,867
‐After Donald Trump
became president elect,
871
00:41:05,867 --> 00:41:08,507
the interest in this only grew.
872
00:41:08,507 --> 00:41:11,067
And by that stage,
873
00:41:11,067 --> 00:41:16,237
there had been reports about
"a veteran spy,"
874
00:41:16,237 --> 00:41:19,507
who was standing behind
allegations about collusion.
875
00:41:19,507 --> 00:41:24,337
♫♫
876
00:41:24,337 --> 00:41:27,307
‐We were in our kitchen and it
suddenly came on CNN
877
00:41:27,307 --> 00:41:29,307
that they got this great scoop.
878
00:41:29,307 --> 00:41:32,237
‐Classified documents on
Russian interference
879
00:41:32,237 --> 00:41:33,867
in the 2016 US election
880
00:41:33,867 --> 00:41:35,737
presented last week
to President Obama
881
00:41:35,737 --> 00:41:37,507
and President elect Trump.
882
00:41:37,507 --> 00:41:39,337
‐It sounded very familiar.
883
00:41:39,337 --> 00:41:43,967
‐It came from a former British
MI6 intelligence agent.
884
00:41:43,967 --> 00:41:47,767
‐So what happens in a moment
like that?
885
00:41:47,767 --> 00:41:49,367
‐Have to start thinking
very quickly
886
00:41:49,367 --> 00:41:52,737
what the implications of that
are and whether my identity
887
00:41:52,737 --> 00:41:56,807
might be exposed
in the next short period?
888
00:41:56,807 --> 00:41:58,337
‐Later that same day,
889
00:41:58,337 --> 00:42:00,607
"BuzzFeed" publishes
the dossier.
890
00:42:00,607 --> 00:42:02,767
‐I think Katherine was lying
in bed at the time,
891
00:42:02,767 --> 00:42:05,867
and I had a very loud
shout to go upstairs,
892
00:42:05,867 --> 00:42:08,967
and there it was, suddenly
all appearing on her laptop.
893
00:42:08,967 --> 00:42:10,337
‐"BuzzFeed" publishes
the dossier,
894
00:42:10,337 --> 00:42:12,537
but not your name.
‐Mm‐hmm.
895
00:42:12,537 --> 00:42:15,407
We realized that we probably
would have to go into hiding
896
00:42:15,407 --> 00:42:16,667
for a period.
897
00:42:16,667 --> 00:42:18,467
‐Must have felt
like a ticking time bomb.
898
00:42:18,467 --> 00:42:20,007
‐It had felt like
a ticking time bomb
899
00:42:20,007 --> 00:42:24,467
since we did the first memo.
900
00:42:24,467 --> 00:42:26,937
‐35‐page report that was
released online by "BuzzFeed."
901
00:42:26,937 --> 00:42:29,607
‐I went, like most reporters,
902
00:42:29,607 --> 00:42:33,367
"Holy cow, this is like,
you know, manna from heaven."
903
00:42:33,367 --> 00:42:36,267
‐Donald Trump was briefed about
unconfirmed claims
904
00:42:36,267 --> 00:42:37,567
he was targeted
905
00:42:37,567 --> 00:42:40,607
in a Russian effort
to personally compromise him.
906
00:42:40,607 --> 00:42:43,867
‐It wasn´t just a punch
in the gut for Washington.
907
00:42:43,867 --> 00:42:46,607
It was a full body blow.
908
00:42:46,607 --> 00:42:48,507
What just happened?
909
00:42:48,507 --> 00:42:50,337
‐It was a story
of epic proportions.
910
00:42:50,337 --> 00:42:53,937
‐New questions about
alleged contact between him,
911
00:42:53,937 --> 00:42:56,737
his campaign,
and the Russian government.
912
00:42:56,737 --> 00:42:59,067
‐For the first time, the public
was going to hear
913
00:42:59,067 --> 00:43:00,467
that the Russians
914
00:43:00,467 --> 00:43:05,037
might have compromising material
salacious material on a man
915
00:43:05,037 --> 00:43:07,907
who had just been elected
president of the United States.
916
00:43:07,907 --> 00:43:10,207
‐USA! USA! USA!
917
00:43:10,207 --> 00:43:12,667
‐This was 10 days
918
00:43:12,667 --> 00:43:15,567
before Donald Trump
would be inaugurated
919
00:43:15,567 --> 00:43:17,637
as president
of the United States.
920
00:43:17,637 --> 00:43:19,667
Everyone was asking
the question,
921
00:43:19,667 --> 00:43:23,137
are these claims true?
922
00:43:23,137 --> 00:43:26,307
‐I immediately knew that
the person
923
00:43:26,307 --> 00:43:29,907
that they were referring
to was Christopher.
924
00:43:29,907 --> 00:43:33,367
And I immediately came
to the conclusion
925
00:43:33,367 --> 00:43:37,237
that his name
would come out very quickly.
926
00:43:37,237 --> 00:43:40,537
‐He needed a refuge,
so he came to stay with us.
927
00:43:40,537 --> 00:43:43,767
♫♫
928
00:43:48,507 --> 00:43:51,037
‐How long did you stay here?
929
00:43:51,037 --> 00:43:53,567
‐Probably for about two months.
930
00:43:53,567 --> 00:43:55,467
And I tended to be here
during the week
931
00:43:55,467 --> 00:43:58,207
because I had business conduct
in London.
932
00:44:02,067 --> 00:44:04,037
It´s quite an amazing place,
really.
933
00:44:04,037 --> 00:44:06,937
‐This pretty great flat, yeah.
Not a bad hideout.
934
00:44:06,937 --> 00:44:08,837
‐No. A bit of a gilded cage,
935
00:44:08,837 --> 00:44:10,807
I think we called it
at the time,
936
00:44:10,807 --> 00:44:12,837
but it was essential
to have somewhere in London
937
00:44:12,837 --> 00:44:16,707
which was secure and safe
at a time when the tabloids
938
00:44:16,707 --> 00:44:19,337
and others were searching for me
and trying to run me down.
939
00:44:19,337 --> 00:44:22,237
‐How about when you first heard
on the BBC? Were you here?
940
00:44:22,237 --> 00:44:25,167
‐Yes, I was in the kitchen
down the way there.
941
00:44:25,167 --> 00:44:27,037
‐So much depends
on the credibility
942
00:44:27,037 --> 00:44:28,967
of the author of this dossier.
943
00:44:28,967 --> 00:44:31,967
He has now been named
as Christopher Steele.
944
00:44:31,967 --> 00:44:35,307
‐And it was like a steep
intake of breath
945
00:44:35,307 --> 00:44:38,437
when suddenly the first item
on the main evening news here
946
00:44:38,437 --> 00:44:41,267
was me
and my name being announced.
947
00:44:41,267 --> 00:44:43,537
‐The name of the man
was Christopher Steele.
948
00:44:43,537 --> 00:44:45,067
‐His name is Christopher Steele
949
00:44:45,067 --> 00:44:46,437
‐[ Speaking foreign language ]
...is Christopher Steele.
950
00:44:46,437 --> 00:44:47,837
‐Myself and my siblings,
951
00:44:47,837 --> 00:44:51,637
we didn´t quite understand
the magnitude at the time.
952
00:44:51,637 --> 00:44:54,137
My mum basically bundled us
into the car and was like,
953
00:44:54,137 --> 00:44:55,707
we need to get out of here.
954
00:44:55,707 --> 00:44:58,837
‐So what was life
in hiding like?
955
00:44:58,837 --> 00:45:00,637
‐It relied on huge support
956
00:45:00,637 --> 00:45:03,107
from people who were prepared
to take the risk
957
00:45:03,107 --> 00:45:05,307
to have me in their house,
and in their home.
958
00:45:05,307 --> 00:45:07,937
♫♫
959
00:45:07,937 --> 00:45:09,667
‐Paparazzi are one thing,
960
00:45:09,667 --> 00:45:11,707
at one point you´re on
Vladimir Putin´s hit list.
961
00:45:11,707 --> 00:45:14,037
‐Mm‐hmm.
962
00:45:14,037 --> 00:45:15,807
It depends what you mean
by hit list.
963
00:45:15,807 --> 00:45:18,007
I was certainly being targeted
by the Russians.
964
00:45:18,007 --> 00:45:20,007
The threat
is potentially out there.
965
00:45:20,007 --> 00:45:22,567
‐What kind of precautions
can you take?
966
00:45:22,567 --> 00:45:24,767
‐You have to have
a very secure home.
967
00:45:24,767 --> 00:45:27,507
You have to be very aware
of your surroundings.
968
00:45:27,507 --> 00:45:30,307
You have to adopt certain
protocols about your vehicles
969
00:45:30,307 --> 00:45:32,337
and things like that,
which are important.
970
00:45:32,337 --> 00:45:36,507
♫♫
971
00:45:36,507 --> 00:45:40,367
‐We arrange for him to arrive
at a particular location
972
00:45:40,367 --> 00:45:42,337
at a particular time.
973
00:45:42,337 --> 00:45:45,337
The buzzer rang walking up
through the stairs
974
00:45:45,337 --> 00:45:48,007
was an individual
975
00:45:48,007 --> 00:45:51,507
who was wearing
an incredibly scruffy overcoat
976
00:45:51,507 --> 00:45:55,037
and sporting a the sort of salt
and pepper beard.
977
00:45:55,037 --> 00:45:57,767
And it was only when he opened
his mouth and talk to me
978
00:45:57,767 --> 00:45:59,167
that I could be
absolutely certain
979
00:45:59,167 --> 00:46:00,337
that it was indeed Chris.
980
00:46:00,337 --> 00:46:02,337
And I suppose it was only then
981
00:46:02,337 --> 00:46:08,307
that it really hit me
how dangerous the situation was.
982
00:46:08,307 --> 00:46:11,707
‐You may be in danger.
Your family may be in danger.
983
00:46:11,707 --> 00:46:13,167
What about your sources?
984
00:46:13,167 --> 00:46:16,407
‐That was actually the most
significant concern of all
985
00:46:16,407 --> 00:46:17,707
and always has been.
986
00:46:17,707 --> 00:46:22,637
Yes, absolutely. They would be
identified and punished.
987
00:46:22,637 --> 00:46:25,537
‐Killed?
‐Possibly.
988
00:46:25,537 --> 00:46:27,707
‐Did anything happen in
any of your sources?
989
00:46:29,737 --> 00:46:33,907
‐Yes, but I can´t really
go there, I´m afraid.
990
00:46:33,907 --> 00:46:37,367
‐Is that source still living?
‐Yes.
991
00:46:37,367 --> 00:46:39,967
‐Are you still a target
of Vladimir Putin?
992
00:46:39,967 --> 00:46:42,867
‐I´m a target for him
trying to discredit us.
993
00:46:42,867 --> 00:46:44,137
I´m not claiming I´m a target
994
00:46:44,137 --> 00:46:46,867
for assassination
or anything like that.
995
00:46:46,867 --> 00:46:49,937
♫♫
996
00:46:53,267 --> 00:46:56,307
‐Trump was clearly very incensed
997
00:46:56,307 --> 00:46:59,967
by the dossier of
his alleged links with Russia.
998
00:46:59,967 --> 00:47:03,137
‐It´s all fake news.
It´s phony stuff.
999
00:47:03,137 --> 00:47:04,807
It didn´t happen.
1000
00:47:04,807 --> 00:47:07,767
‐At his first press conference
in months,
1001
00:47:07,767 --> 00:47:10,137
the question of the dossier
1002
00:47:10,137 --> 00:47:13,337
and the allegations
was front and center.
1003
00:47:13,337 --> 00:47:14,937
‐Mr. President elect,
this is ABC News.
1004
00:47:14,937 --> 00:47:17,367
‐It was a group of opponents
1005
00:47:17,367 --> 00:47:21,507
who got together, sick people,
and they put that crap together.
1006
00:47:21,507 --> 00:47:24,007
If Putin likes Donald Trump,
1007
00:47:24,007 --> 00:47:26,567
I consider that an asset,
not a liability.
1008
00:47:26,567 --> 00:47:30,207
‐He actually even addressed
the most salacious claims.
1009
00:47:30,207 --> 00:47:34,167
‐I was in Russia years ago
with the Miss Universe contest.
1010
00:47:34,167 --> 00:47:35,907
It´s an amazing location
1011
00:47:35,907 --> 00:47:38,707
and Moscow and all of Russia
is going wild over it.
1012
00:47:38,707 --> 00:47:43,237
And I told many people,
be careful
1013
00:47:43,237 --> 00:47:44,707
because you don´t want to
see yourself on television.
1014
00:47:44,707 --> 00:47:47,507
Cameras all over the place.
1015
00:47:47,507 --> 00:47:50,107
Does anyone really
believe that story?
1016
00:47:50,107 --> 00:47:52,867
I´m also very much
of a germaphobe, by the way.
1017
00:47:52,867 --> 00:47:57,137
‐Late night comedians went nuts
over this. They had a field day.
1018
00:47:57,137 --> 00:47:58,607
‐I´m not going to validate
that report
1019
00:47:58,607 --> 00:48:01,437
by sharing the most
salacious details from it.
1020
00:48:01,437 --> 00:48:05,767
You might call it the, uh,
the number one detail.
1021
00:48:05,767 --> 00:48:09,307
‐The scandal that is now known
as Golden Gate online
1022
00:48:09,307 --> 00:48:11,737
was a major topic
at the press conference.
1023
00:48:11,737 --> 00:48:14,807
‐I am not talking about
the pee pee
1024
00:48:14,807 --> 00:48:16,337
because it didn´t happen
1025
00:48:16,337 --> 00:48:18,437
and it wasn´t
as cool as it sounds.
1026
00:48:18,437 --> 00:48:19,867
Next question.
1027
00:48:19,867 --> 00:48:24,907
‐What happened 10 days before
Donald Trump was inaugurated
1028
00:48:24,907 --> 00:48:28,937
would set the stage
for his entire presidency.
1029
00:48:28,937 --> 00:48:33,537
♫♫
1030
00:48:33,537 --> 00:48:36,907
‐I, Donald John Trump,
do solemnly swear
1031
00:48:36,907 --> 00:48:39,437
that I will faithfully execute
1032
00:48:39,437 --> 00:48:43,607
the Office of President
of the United States.
1033
00:48:43,607 --> 00:48:45,437
‐As Donald Trump took office,
1034
00:48:45,437 --> 00:48:48,607
Crossfire hurricane,
the FBI investigation,
1035
00:48:48,607 --> 00:48:51,307
which was separate
from the Steele dossier,
1036
00:48:51,307 --> 00:48:53,667
was still largely
in its infancy,
1037
00:48:53,667 --> 00:48:58,407
with the FBI Director
James Comey overseeing it.
1038
00:48:58,407 --> 00:49:03,107
‐The FBI is investigating
the nature of any links
1039
00:49:03,107 --> 00:49:06,367
between individuals associated
with the Trump campaign
1040
00:49:06,367 --> 00:49:08,567
and the Russian government.
1041
00:49:08,567 --> 00:49:10,867
‐Fast forward several months.
1042
00:49:10,867 --> 00:49:13,837
The president then
fires Jim Comey.
1043
00:49:13,837 --> 00:49:17,007
Many people saw this
as an attempt to quash
1044
00:49:17,007 --> 00:49:19,367
the Crossfire hurricane
investigation.
1045
00:49:19,367 --> 00:49:20,637
‐We´re coming on the air now
1046
00:49:20,637 --> 00:49:22,467
with major news
from the Department of Justice.
1047
00:49:22,467 --> 00:49:24,337
‐Back against the wall.
Move aside, move aside.
1048
00:49:24,337 --> 00:49:27,167
‐The acting attorney general,
Rod Rosenstein,
1049
00:49:27,167 --> 00:49:30,067
has decided to appoint
a special counsel to investigate
1050
00:49:30,067 --> 00:49:32,737
Russian interference
in the 2016 election.
1051
00:49:32,737 --> 00:49:37,567
The special counsel
will be Robert Mueller.
1052
00:49:37,567 --> 00:49:40,867
‐The FBI´s work is taken over
by the special counsel.
1053
00:49:40,867 --> 00:49:43,167
‐Slide to the side.
1054
00:49:43,167 --> 00:49:47,967
‐And two years later,
you have the Mueller report.
1055
00:49:47,967 --> 00:49:50,867
‐There were over 500 witnesses
interviewed.
1056
00:49:50,867 --> 00:49:52,767
There were 37 indictments.
1057
00:49:52,767 --> 00:49:55,037
‐There were many people
in the media
1058
00:49:55,037 --> 00:49:58,067
who thought Robert Mueller
is going to lay out
1059
00:49:58,067 --> 00:50:01,937
this extraordinary story
of collusion.
1060
00:50:01,937 --> 00:50:06,667
And central to it are going
to be many of the things
1061
00:50:06,667 --> 00:50:10,107
that Christopher Steele
mentioned in his memos.
1062
00:50:10,107 --> 00:50:13,837
♫♫
1063
00:50:13,837 --> 00:50:18,607
Christopher Steele and his work
were conspicuous
1064
00:50:18,607 --> 00:50:23,367
in their absence
from the Mueller report.
1065
00:50:23,367 --> 00:50:26,137
‐With regard to the Steele
1066
00:50:26,137 --> 00:50:29,407
that´s beyond my purview.
1067
00:50:29,407 --> 00:50:32,237
‐Mueller found
unambiguous evidence
1068
00:50:32,237 --> 00:50:36,607
that Russians were having
repeated contacts
1069
00:50:36,607 --> 00:50:39,407
with associates
of President Trump.
1070
00:50:39,407 --> 00:50:45,337
But Bob Mueller did not find was
that there was a quid pro quo.
1071
00:50:45,337 --> 00:50:49,467
‐Robert Mueller said, could not
establish firm evidence
1072
00:50:49,467 --> 00:50:51,637
of a criminal conspiracy.
1073
00:50:51,637 --> 00:50:53,537
‐Sure. But Robert Mueller
was working
1074
00:50:53,537 --> 00:50:56,007
to beyond reasonable doubt
1075
00:50:56,007 --> 00:51:00,307
level of evidence in criminal
cases and prosecutions
1076
00:51:00,307 --> 00:51:02,867
and in much intelligence work,
1077
00:51:02,867 --> 00:51:04,707
you never get to the point
1078
00:51:04,707 --> 00:51:08,137
where you´re 99% certain
of the evidence
1079
00:51:08,137 --> 00:51:09,767
and can secure a conviction.
1080
00:51:09,767 --> 00:51:14,407
‐So on the whole, in your view,
does the Mueller report
1081
00:51:14,407 --> 00:51:18,237
reinforce the dossier
or refute it?
1082
00:51:18,237 --> 00:51:19,767
‐Overall, I think it
reinforces it.
1083
00:51:19,767 --> 00:51:21,067
‐How so?
1084
00:51:21,067 --> 00:51:22,967
‐Because there was
a whole scale campaign
1085
00:51:22,967 --> 00:51:26,637
that it was organized
by the leadership in Russia,
1086
00:51:26,637 --> 00:51:29,167
that its aim was to get
Donald Trump elected.
1087
00:51:29,167 --> 00:51:33,007
And there was a lot of evidence
of contacts between
1088
00:51:33,007 --> 00:51:36,307
the Trump campaign and Russians,
which they didn´t report in
1089
00:51:36,307 --> 00:51:39,167
and didn´t admit to,
in fact, lied about.
1090
00:51:39,167 --> 00:51:44,007
♫♫
1091
00:51:44,007 --> 00:51:46,737
‐You look at the fake dossier.
A phony dossier.
1092
00:51:46,737 --> 00:51:50,007
That fraud of the ‐‐
the fake dossier.
1093
00:51:50,007 --> 00:51:51,507
‐You also become a target of
1094
00:51:51,507 --> 00:51:53,437
the president
of the United States
1095
00:51:53,437 --> 00:51:59,367
calls you a failed spy,
a lowlife, disgraced, and dopey.
1096
00:51:59,367 --> 00:52:03,237
‐Well, I have been accused of
all sorts of things in my life,
1097
00:52:03,237 --> 00:52:06,067
but dopey isn´t actually
one of them.
1098
00:52:06,067 --> 00:52:07,967
I think there´s an element
of theater
1099
00:52:07,967 --> 00:52:11,007
and element of unreality
about all that.
1100
00:52:11,007 --> 00:52:13,807
It´s a bit of an out‐of‐body
experience to begin with,
1101
00:52:13,807 --> 00:52:15,807
but after a while,
like anything else in life,
1102
00:52:15,807 --> 00:52:17,667
you get used to it.
1103
00:52:17,667 --> 00:52:21,267
‐He did call for you to be
extradited back to the U. S.
1104
00:52:21,267 --> 00:52:22,907
‐Yeah, these things have to be
taken, I think,
1105
00:52:22,907 --> 00:52:24,137
with a pinch of salt.
1106
00:52:24,137 --> 00:52:25,837
‐You weren´t worried about
being extradited?
1107
00:52:25,837 --> 00:52:27,807
‐No, why would I be?
I did nothing wrong.
1108
00:52:27,807 --> 00:52:31,437
♫♫
1109
00:52:31,437 --> 00:52:35,037
‐Along with the investigation
that was done by Robert Mueller,
1110
00:52:35,037 --> 00:52:39,807
a separate report was undertaken
by Michael Horowitz,
1111
00:52:39,807 --> 00:52:43,567
the inspector general
of the Justice Department.
1112
00:52:43,567 --> 00:52:46,237
He is looking
at two simple questions.
1113
00:52:46,237 --> 00:52:48,407
Was the FBI correct?
1114
00:52:48,407 --> 00:52:53,137
Do they have a reasonable basis
to start an investigation prior
1115
00:52:53,137 --> 00:52:55,867
to the election
of the Trump campaign?
1116
00:52:55,867 --> 00:52:58,167
That was number one
and number two,
1117
00:52:58,167 --> 00:53:02,537
did they go about
that investigation properly?
1118
00:53:02,537 --> 00:53:05,107
‐Breaking news on that inspector
general´s report
1119
00:53:05,107 --> 00:53:07,307
into the origins
of the FBI investigation
1120
00:53:07,307 --> 00:53:09,407
that finds the FBI
was justified
1121
00:53:09,407 --> 00:53:11,307
in opening up
the Russian investigation.
1122
00:53:11,307 --> 00:53:14,737
But there were serious issues
with the wiretap of Carter Page,
1123
00:53:14,737 --> 00:53:18,507
who is, of course,
a Trump campaign associate.
1124
00:53:18,507 --> 00:53:20,807
‐Carter Page was mentioned
in this dossier.
1125
00:53:20,807 --> 00:53:24,037
‐Several of Steele´s reports
refer to secret meetings
1126
00:53:24,037 --> 00:53:25,607
that page allegedly
1127
00:53:25,607 --> 00:53:29,037
held with Russian officials
in Moscow.
1128
00:53:29,037 --> 00:53:32,207
‐There´s no doubt that the FBI
used information
1129
00:53:32,207 --> 00:53:35,507
from the dossier
to get a surveillance warrant,
1130
00:53:35,507 --> 00:53:39,367
a highly intrusive surveillance
warrant against Carter Page.
1131
00:53:39,367 --> 00:53:41,637
In the view
of the inspector general,
1132
00:53:41,637 --> 00:53:45,637
the FBI had misused the dossier
because information the FBI
1133
00:53:45,637 --> 00:53:50,307
had already obtained did not
support Steele´s allegations
1134
00:53:50,307 --> 00:53:52,607
that Page was coordinating
with the Russians
1135
00:53:52,607 --> 00:53:54,807
on the 2016 election.
1136
00:53:54,807 --> 00:53:56,607
‐No, I´ve ‐‐
I´ve never been an agent
1137
00:53:56,607 --> 00:53:58,867
of a foreign power
1138
00:53:58,867 --> 00:54:01,567
by any stretch
of the imagination.
1139
00:54:01,567 --> 00:54:04,937
‐Probably the action
that was most directly tied
1140
00:54:04,937 --> 00:54:06,237
to the dossier
1141
00:54:06,237 --> 00:54:11,137
is the FISA investigation
of Carter Page.
1142
00:54:11,137 --> 00:54:12,807
‐Yeah.
‐Any regrets about that?
1143
00:54:12,807 --> 00:54:14,307
‐It had nothing to do with us.
1144
00:54:14,307 --> 00:54:18,467
We were not told of any use of
our material in such a process.
1145
00:54:18,467 --> 00:54:21,237
And therefore, if there were
problems with that process,
1146
00:54:21,237 --> 00:54:22,567
they weren´t our problems.
1147
00:54:22,567 --> 00:54:25,467
They were the problems
of the people conducting them.
1148
00:54:25,467 --> 00:54:28,807
‐The inspector general´s report
with respect
1149
00:54:28,807 --> 00:54:32,537
to the Steele dossier,
was devastating.
1150
00:54:32,537 --> 00:54:36,537
In many ways it eviscerated it.
1151
00:54:36,537 --> 00:54:38,707
‐They concluded,
speaking of your work,
1152
00:54:38,707 --> 00:54:41,537
certain allegations were
inaccurate or inconsistent
1153
00:54:41,537 --> 00:54:44,267
with information gathered by
the Crossfire hurricane team
1154
00:54:44,267 --> 00:54:45,737
and it eliminated information
1155
00:54:45,737 --> 00:54:47,937
that was corroborated related
to time,
1156
00:54:47,937 --> 00:54:49,807
location,
and title information,
1157
00:54:49,807 --> 00:54:52,067
much of which
was publicly available.
1158
00:54:52,067 --> 00:54:54,867
‐Mm‐hmm.
1159
00:54:54,867 --> 00:54:56,967
‐You accept that conclusion?
1160
00:54:56,967 --> 00:55:00,267
‐I think they are putting
too much store, frankly,
1161
00:55:00,267 --> 00:55:04,437
into what FBI knew about it
early on in the campaign.
1162
00:55:04,437 --> 00:55:08,467
I think the FBI is generally
effective organization.
1163
00:55:08,467 --> 00:55:12,337
I´m not sure the extent to which
FBI has got good coverage
1164
00:55:12,337 --> 00:55:15,537
of Moscow and Moscow politics
and Moscow operations.
1165
00:55:15,537 --> 00:55:18,467
♫♫
1166
00:55:18,467 --> 00:55:21,107
‐One big claim in the dossier,
1167
00:55:21,107 --> 00:55:24,067
the FBI, according to
the inspector general´s report,
1168
00:55:24,067 --> 00:55:26,907
and while it reinforces it
is not true,
1169
00:55:26,907 --> 00:55:28,707
is the claim that Michael Cohen
1170
00:55:28,707 --> 00:55:30,467
had a meeting
with Russians in Prague.
1171
00:55:30,467 --> 00:55:32,337
Do you accept that finding
that it didn´t happen?
1172
00:55:32,337 --> 00:55:35,537
‐No, I don´t.
1173
00:55:35,537 --> 00:55:37,807
‐Michael Cohen was Trump´s
1174
00:55:37,807 --> 00:55:41,367
personal lawyer
and self‐described fixer.
1175
00:55:41,367 --> 00:55:43,367
The Steele dossier
had alleged Cohen
1176
00:55:43,367 --> 00:55:45,937
met secretly with Kremlin
officials in Prague.
1177
00:55:45,937 --> 00:55:48,407
[ Sirens wailing ]
1178
00:55:48,407 --> 00:55:52,407
Those were allegations the FBI
later said were not true,
1179
00:55:52,407 --> 00:55:54,567
according to the inspector
general report.
1180
00:55:54,567 --> 00:55:56,067
‐I´ve never been to Prague.
‐Never have?
1181
00:55:56,067 --> 00:55:58,207
‐I´ve never been
to the Czech Republic.
1182
00:55:58,207 --> 00:56:00,967
‐Michael Cohen has
completely turned
1183
00:56:00,967 --> 00:56:02,637
on Donald Trump, he´s accused
him of all kinds of things.
1184
00:56:02,637 --> 00:56:04,667
He´s going to jail.
1185
00:56:04,667 --> 00:56:06,937
It defies logic
that if he did this,
1186
00:56:06,937 --> 00:56:08,337
he wouldn´t say so now.
1187
00:56:08,337 --> 00:56:09,707
‐I don´t agree with that.
‐Why?
1188
00:56:09,707 --> 00:56:13,067
‐It´s very self‐incriminating
to a very great degree.
1189
00:56:13,067 --> 00:56:15,937
‐What would you be incriminating
himself in?
1190
00:56:15,937 --> 00:56:17,807
‐Treason, presumably.
1191
00:56:17,807 --> 00:56:19,367
‐Since he´s going to prison,
1192
00:56:19,367 --> 00:56:21,007
since he´s turned on
President Trump,
1193
00:56:21,007 --> 00:56:22,467
he´s told every single story.
1194
00:56:22,467 --> 00:56:24,567
Why wouldn´t he admit to this?
1195
00:56:24,567 --> 00:56:28,137
‐Because I think it´s so
incriminating and demeaning.
1196
00:56:28,137 --> 00:56:31,407
And the other reason is he might
be scared of the consequences.
1197
00:56:35,007 --> 00:56:37,037
‐Do you think it hurts
your credibility at all that
1198
00:56:37,037 --> 00:56:39,467
you won´t accept
the findings of the FBI
1199
00:56:39,467 --> 00:56:42,537
in this particular case?
1200
00:56:42,537 --> 00:56:45,867
‐I´m prepared to accept that not
everything in the dossier
1201
00:56:45,867 --> 00:56:48,067
is 100% accurate.
1202
00:56:48,067 --> 00:56:52,967
I have yet to be convinced
that that is one of them.
1203
00:56:52,967 --> 00:56:58,737
‐Christopher Steele is free
to believe whatever he wants.
1204
00:56:58,737 --> 00:57:01,807
But if Christopher Steele
1205
00:57:01,807 --> 00:57:06,307
wants other people to believe
that he´s believable,
1206
00:57:06,307 --> 00:57:08,937
he needs to show us
1207
00:57:08,937 --> 00:57:10,737
what evidence he has
1208
00:57:10,737 --> 00:57:14,767
to support his belief.
1209
00:57:14,767 --> 00:57:17,237
‐The inspector general
also pulled back the curtain
1210
00:57:17,237 --> 00:57:20,907
on how Steele
had gathered his information.
1211
00:57:20,907 --> 00:57:22,907
It doesn´t name
Steele´s collector,
1212
00:57:22,907 --> 00:57:26,037
but the report does describe
some of his methods,
1213
00:57:26,037 --> 00:57:27,267
and we´d later learn
1214
00:57:27,267 --> 00:57:30,437
he was not someone
well‐placed in the Kremlin,
1215
00:57:30,437 --> 00:57:33,567
but an analyst in Washington.
1216
00:57:33,567 --> 00:57:37,307
‐When the FBI sought this person
out and interviewed him,
1217
00:57:37,307 --> 00:57:38,567
he said, yeah.
1218
00:57:38,567 --> 00:57:41,507
He basically gathered
some of this information,
1219
00:57:41,507 --> 00:57:44,937
but it was almost ambivalent
about how accurate it was.
1220
00:57:44,937 --> 00:57:48,307
‐Some of this information,
including that allegation
1221
00:57:48,307 --> 00:57:51,537
about the salacious tape,
had apparently been gathered
1222
00:57:51,537 --> 00:57:53,507
from people
who had just heard about it
1223
00:57:53,507 --> 00:57:56,337
or talked about it in jest.
1224
00:57:56,337 --> 00:57:57,867
To Chris Steele´s critics,
1225
00:57:57,867 --> 00:58:01,567
especially Republicans
in the Senate,
1226
00:58:01,567 --> 00:58:04,507
he really took
a beating for this.
1227
00:58:04,507 --> 00:58:07,437
‐Let me tell you about
Christopher Steele.
1228
00:58:07,437 --> 00:58:10,667
He was on a mission
to get Donald Trump.
1229
00:58:10,667 --> 00:58:12,837
If you read this document,
1230
00:58:12,837 --> 00:58:14,137
the first thing
you would think of
1231
00:58:14,137 --> 00:58:17,807
is they got something
on Donald Trump.
1232
00:58:17,807 --> 00:58:20,307
It is stunning. It is damning.
1233
00:58:20,307 --> 00:58:25,407
It is salacious,
and it´s a bunch of crap.
1234
00:58:25,407 --> 00:58:28,207
‐One of your main collectors who
spoke to the inspector general
1235
00:58:28,207 --> 00:58:31,167
said that especially
the kompromat was word of mouth
1236
00:58:31,167 --> 00:58:35,067
and hearsay conversations
with friends over beers.
1237
00:58:35,067 --> 00:58:36,537
It was just talk.
1238
00:58:36,537 --> 00:58:38,367
‐If you have
a confidential source
1239
00:58:38,367 --> 00:58:42,207
and that confidential source
is blown, all is uncovered,
1240
00:58:42,207 --> 00:58:44,907
that confidential source
will often take fright
1241
00:58:44,907 --> 00:58:47,707
and try and downplay
and underestimate
1242
00:58:47,707 --> 00:58:49,267
what they´ve said and done.
1243
00:58:49,267 --> 00:58:51,707
And I think that´s probably
what happened here.
1244
00:58:51,707 --> 00:58:53,567
‐He´s afraid?
1245
00:58:53,567 --> 00:58:56,637
‐I think anybody that´s named
in this contact,
1246
00:58:56,637 --> 00:59:01,167
particularly if they´re Russian,
has every reason to be afraid.
1247
00:59:01,167 --> 00:59:04,467
♫♫
1248
00:59:21,437 --> 00:59:24,467
♫♫
1249
00:59:29,867 --> 00:59:32,337
‐Now, looking back on it,
there are people who will say,
1250
00:59:32,337 --> 00:59:36,337
Christopher Steele´s
dossier has been debunked.
1251
00:59:36,337 --> 00:59:37,807
And there are other people
who will say
1252
00:59:37,807 --> 00:59:39,237
it´s mostly held up.
1253
00:59:39,237 --> 00:59:41,237
Maybe it´s somewhere in between.
1254
00:59:41,237 --> 00:59:43,807
♫♫
1255
00:59:43,807 --> 00:59:45,167
‐So you stand by the dossier.
1256
00:59:45,167 --> 00:59:48,967
‐I stand by the work we did,
the sources that we had,
1257
00:59:48,967 --> 00:59:52,337
and the professionalism
which we apply to.
1258
00:59:52,337 --> 00:59:56,467
‐I think, you know, some people
will always deem it to be
1259
00:59:56,467 --> 00:59:58,167
an important piece of work,
and some people
1260
00:59:58,167 --> 01:00:00,967
will will describe it
as a garbage document.
1261
01:00:00,967 --> 01:00:02,867
‐All the talk about
this alleged tape,
1262
01:00:02,867 --> 01:00:04,007
I bet you´ve heard about it,
1263
01:00:04,007 --> 01:00:05,837
virtually no evidence
came forward
1264
01:00:05,837 --> 01:00:08,567
in public to corroborate it.
1265
01:00:08,567 --> 01:00:11,637
‐It would be quite the tape
if it became public.
1266
01:00:11,637 --> 01:00:15,467
But it´s now five years later,
1267
01:00:15,467 --> 01:00:17,307
and we haven´t seen
a trace of it.
1268
01:00:17,307 --> 01:00:19,467
‐President Putin in Russia
put out a statement today
1269
01:00:19,467 --> 01:00:22,037
that this fake news
was indeed fake news.
1270
01:00:22,037 --> 01:00:24,307
Now somebody would say, "Oh, of
course, he´s going to say that."
1271
01:00:24,307 --> 01:00:26,707
I respected the fact
that he said that,
1272
01:00:26,707 --> 01:00:29,267
and I´ll be honest, I think
if he did have something,
1273
01:00:29,267 --> 01:00:30,407
they would have released it.
1274
01:00:30,407 --> 01:00:31,907
They would have been
glad to release it.
1275
01:00:31,907 --> 01:00:35,807
‐And today, do you still believe
that that tape exists?
1276
01:00:35,807 --> 01:00:37,167
‐I think it probably does,
1277
01:00:37,167 --> 01:00:39,607
but I wouldn´t put
a 100% certainty on it.
1278
01:00:39,607 --> 01:00:42,937
‐So how do you explain
if that tape does indeed exist
1279
01:00:42,937 --> 01:00:44,267
and hasn´t been released?
1280
01:00:44,267 --> 01:00:45,507
‐Well, it hasn´t needed
to be released.
1281
01:00:45,507 --> 01:00:46,737
‐Why not?
1282
01:00:46,737 --> 01:00:48,567
‐Because I think the Russians
felt they´d got
1283
01:00:48,567 --> 01:00:50,867
pretty good value
out of Donald Trump
1284
01:00:50,867 --> 01:00:52,307
when he was president
of the U. S.
1285
01:00:52,307 --> 01:00:54,437
‐Anything you believe
you got just wrong?
1286
01:00:54,437 --> 01:00:56,707
‐The interview I gave
to "Mother Jones."
1287
01:00:56,707 --> 01:00:58,767
‐That was a mistake?
‐I think so, yeah.
1288
01:00:58,767 --> 01:01:00,907
‐But not the pee tape,
1289
01:01:00,907 --> 01:01:04,807
not Michael Cohen in Prague,
not Carter Page.
1290
01:01:04,807 --> 01:01:07,267
‐None of those things,
to my mind, have been disproven.
1291
01:01:07,267 --> 01:01:09,237
They may not have been proven.
1292
01:01:09,237 --> 01:01:11,067
And we may be well
hear more about
1293
01:01:11,067 --> 01:01:12,867
those things
as we go forward.
1294
01:01:12,867 --> 01:01:16,437
I don´t think this book
is finished by a long shot.
1295
01:01:16,437 --> 01:01:20,707
‐There were serious people
who were suggesting that perhaps
1296
01:01:20,707 --> 01:01:24,307
some of the information
in Chris Steele´s dossier
1297
01:01:24,307 --> 01:01:27,807
was fed to him intentionally.
1298
01:01:27,807 --> 01:01:30,437
‐Do you think there´s a chance
1299
01:01:30,437 --> 01:01:34,507
that the Russians played you,
fed you disinformation?
1300
01:01:34,507 --> 01:01:36,067
‐I think there is a chance.
1301
01:01:36,067 --> 01:01:39,467
I think it´s very unlikely,
and I´ll tell you why.
1302
01:01:39,467 --> 01:01:43,067
‐Ultimately, any disinformation
operation has an objective,
1303
01:01:43,067 --> 01:01:44,607
and it would have
been disinformation
1304
01:01:44,607 --> 01:01:45,737
about Hillary Clinton.
1305
01:01:45,737 --> 01:01:47,867
Why would they run
a disinformation campaign
1306
01:01:47,867 --> 01:01:49,867
that was derogatory
about the person
1307
01:01:49,867 --> 01:01:53,737
they preferred to be elected?
1308
01:01:53,737 --> 01:01:58,907
‐2024, we´re gonna have
a big, big beautiful victory.
1309
01:01:58,907 --> 01:02:01,037
‐He´s making moves, perhaps,
Trump is,
1310
01:02:01,037 --> 01:02:02,967
to run again in 2024.
1311
01:02:02,967 --> 01:02:05,137
Do you think if he runs again,
1312
01:02:05,137 --> 01:02:08,967
he´s a threat to United States
national security,
1313
01:02:08,967 --> 01:02:11,537
to the national security,
the United Kingdom?
1314
01:02:11,537 --> 01:02:13,237
‐Yes, potentially.
1315
01:02:13,237 --> 01:02:15,267
‐A new twist in
the Russia investigation.
1316
01:02:15,267 --> 01:02:17,137
Attorney General William Barr
is now asking
1317
01:02:17,137 --> 01:02:19,507
for a new investigation
of the investigation.
1318
01:02:19,507 --> 01:02:22,567
‐He´s now tapped John Durham,
a U. S. attorney in Connecticut,
1319
01:02:22,567 --> 01:02:23,807
to lead this probe
1320
01:02:23,807 --> 01:02:26,107
into the origins
of the Russia investigation.
1321
01:02:26,107 --> 01:02:28,137
‐John Durham´s inquiry
will focus on whether
1322
01:02:28,137 --> 01:02:30,267
the government´s intelligence
collection methods
1323
01:02:30,267 --> 01:02:32,567
were, quote,
"lawful and appropriate."
1324
01:02:32,567 --> 01:02:35,437
‐There´s at least one
more investigation left.
1325
01:02:35,437 --> 01:02:36,737
John Durham´s investigation.
1326
01:02:36,737 --> 01:02:39,337
His report
is expected in coming weeks.
1327
01:02:39,337 --> 01:02:40,837
Are you worried about it?
1328
01:02:40,837 --> 01:02:43,667
‐I´m interested to see
what he publishes
1329
01:02:43,667 --> 01:02:45,767
and what he says
about us and others.
1330
01:02:45,767 --> 01:02:49,107
‐Worried you´ll be indicted?
‐No.
1331
01:02:49,107 --> 01:02:51,307
‐In order to be guilty
of a crime,
1332
01:02:51,307 --> 01:02:54,337
you have to have
sort of malice of forethought.
1333
01:02:54,337 --> 01:02:58,737
And I really don´t see
how Durham is ever
1334
01:02:58,737 --> 01:03:03,667
going to be able to prove that.
1335
01:03:03,667 --> 01:03:05,937
‐What´s the fairest
criticism of you?
1336
01:03:05,937 --> 01:03:07,537
‐I think the fairest criticism
of us
1337
01:03:07,537 --> 01:03:09,607
is that we try
to ride the two horses.
1338
01:03:09,607 --> 01:03:10,907
‐What does that mean?
1339
01:03:10,907 --> 01:03:14,237
‐We had a relationship
with our clients ‐‐
1340
01:03:14,237 --> 01:03:16,507
Glenn Simpson and Fusion.
1341
01:03:16,507 --> 01:03:18,937
And we were also trying
to maintain a relationship
1342
01:03:18,937 --> 01:03:21,007
with the FBI on the same issue
1343
01:03:21,007 --> 01:03:22,837
and that we should have
probably seen
1344
01:03:22,837 --> 01:03:25,607
was going to lead eventually
to some kind of conflict.
1345
01:03:25,607 --> 01:03:28,607
‐You´ve become world famous,
infamous.
1346
01:03:28,607 --> 01:03:31,167
What´s the biggest
misconception about you?
1347
01:03:31,167 --> 01:03:33,337
‐I think the biggest
misconception about me is that
1348
01:03:33,337 --> 01:03:35,937
I´m some kind of political
partisan whereas, in fact,
1349
01:03:35,937 --> 01:03:37,567
the exact opposite is true.
1350
01:03:37,567 --> 01:03:42,267
I was trying to help the U. S.
from a nonpartisan position.
1351
01:03:42,267 --> 01:03:44,907
‐The biggest misconception
about Steele,
1352
01:03:44,907 --> 01:03:49,667
we´re still trying to understand
how significant a player he was.
1353
01:03:49,667 --> 01:03:51,867
All we know is that his name
1354
01:03:51,867 --> 01:03:53,467
will be etched
in the history books
1355
01:03:53,467 --> 01:03:57,307
as having a role in one of
the biggest counterintelligence
1356
01:03:57,307 --> 01:04:00,667
investigations
the country´s ever seen.
1357
01:04:00,667 --> 01:04:05,167
‐He changed the way Americans
saw Donald Trump.
1358
01:04:05,167 --> 01:04:10,137
Whether you liked him or didn´t.
It changed history.
1359
01:04:10,137 --> 01:04:12,407
‐I think for better or worse,
Christopher Steele
1360
01:04:12,407 --> 01:04:14,137
is going to be remembered
as the spy
1361
01:04:14,137 --> 01:04:17,607
who stepped out of the shadows.
1362
01:04:17,607 --> 01:04:20,207
‐And how do you want history
to remember Christopher Steele?
1363
01:04:20,207 --> 01:04:22,367
‐Somebody that saw something
that was very worrying
1364
01:04:22,367 --> 01:04:25,937
and in good faith,
went to an ally and reported it
1365
01:04:25,937 --> 01:04:30,507
in hoping to protect
that country from an adversary.
1366
01:04:30,507 --> 01:04:32,437
‐Is that what you
think will happen?
1367
01:04:32,437 --> 01:04:35,037
‐I think it will be, yes.
I hope so.
1368
01:04:35,037 --> 01:04:37,437
I think our work
highlighted the threat
1369
01:04:37,437 --> 01:04:41,367
that authoritarian regimes
pose to democracy,
1370
01:04:41,367 --> 01:04:43,807
and it still is a great threat
to democracy
1371
01:04:43,807 --> 01:04:45,507
and to our way of life.
1372
01:04:45,507 --> 01:04:48,937
♫♫
1373
01:04:55,107 --> 01:04:58,867
♫♫