Downloaded from YTS.MX
Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX
[rain pattering]
[rain pattering intensifies]
[windshield wipers swishing]
-[door shuts] -[door handle clicks]
Hey, ma'am?
-Do you need any prayer today? -[woman] No, thanks.
Okay, you have a good day.
[woman] You too.
[women chattering]
Hey, y'all, I was gonna ask, do y'all need any prayer tonight?
I'm just out here praying for people, and I share my testimony with people
and pray with them.
This is me.
I lived transgender before,
and I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.
-Are you believers? -[women] Yes.
So, Father God, I just thank you for my sisters tonight,
Lord, that I met, fellow believers in you, Jesus.
And I just bless them, in Jesus Christs' name I pray. Amen.
[women] Amen.
This was me. I lived transgender. Drugs, alcohol, and homosexuality.
I was really deep in sin, and I left everything to follow the Lord
'cause He's an amazing, powerful God, and He loves us.
And so I just-- I share my journey with other people to encourage them.
You know, we can always use prayer every day.
[young man] Bless them, Father, in Jesus Christs' name,
to follow you and to know you, Lord. Let us know you. Amen.
-[woman 2] Amen. -I lived as a woman.
I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.
Let her never forget, Father, how important and loved she is to you.
In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
I was promiscuous with a lot of men, prostituted my body.
I share the Gospel and what happened in my life,
and how God set me free from this identity 'cause I was trying to become a woman.
I'm not a woman. I'm a man.
Father, I just thank you for everything you've done.
By the Father, by the Son, Jesus, and by you, Holy Spirit.
In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
[laptop clicks]
[keys tapping]
[Jeffrey] So, this would have been me.
It says, "in bondage" and "set free."
The biggest things that Jesus is to me is truth.
When you know the truth, the truth sets you free.
I believe the Bible,
that these people will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
I do believe that people can change
and have a refreshing, renewing over their whole sexuality.
The Holy Spirit can give you new desires and wants.
Jesus can transform you.
[ethereal vocal music playing]
[music continues]
[indistinct chattering]
[assistant 1] Take one, marker.
-[assistant 2] Are you good with that? -[director] Yeah.
[music fades]
[man] We were the leaders of the ex-gay movement.
We believed that there was something desperately wrong,
that there was something pathological about it,
that it was not your normal state,
wasn't what God intended,
that something must have happened to "make you gay."
We really believed
that gay people could be saved.
This is what the Bible says.
It says that some of you were homosexuals, right?
But you've changed. You've been washed. You've been transformed.
We believed what we were doing was the right thing,
to continue pursuing change,
and if you didn't want to be gay, that there was a way out for you also.
We were doing what we thought God wanted us to do.
[ethereal vocal music playing]
[music intensifies]
[music fades]
All right, who wants to do the eggs? No, it goes in there.
-[girl] Oh. -[utensil clatters]
-[cupboard creaks] -[cutlery clinking]
I just need an egg and the yolk,
so you have to separate the white from the yolk.
-How are you supposed to do that? -[Yvette] Oh my gosh.
-[girls giggle] -I have very little confidence right now.
Wow.
[both laugh]
[Yvette laughing] And you broke the yolk already!
[girl laughing] Okay.
-[cameraperson] Is it possible to move? -[director] Yes.
[director] Great. Are you good with that?
[cameraperson] Yeah.
-Is this mic working? -[assistant] No, not really, so…
[interviewer] Then I'm just gonna lean forward a little bit more.
You spent six years as a practicing lesbian.
[chuckles] I like that word, "practicing."
What do you mean, "practicing?" What are you trying to get perfect?
[both laugh]
"Practicing" lesbian means that I was actually in the lifestyle
and not just struggling with the feelings.
So I was actually involved in lesbian relationships.
[interviewer] Yvette, would you just talk from your heart
to those that are trapped in the lifestyle?
Well, I know that it is difficult.
It took me three years just to overcome same-sex attractions.
And it was because I was surrounded by people in the church
who really loved me.
But God really healing the feminine within me
and showing me that the feminine is something that he loves,
that it's something that He created.
He's the only one who can touch those deep places.
[interviewer] That was wonderful.
[Yvette] I spent a lot of time thinking, "How did I believe that?"
and "How was I involved in it for so long?"
I didn't come into the church until I was 27.
And the reason
I started going to church and became a Christian
was I was looking for something.
That's absolutely spectacular.
[Yvette] I didn't really have those carefree days
where you think nothing can touch you.
Death was always prevalent,
and it was right there.
-[traffic buzzing] -[siren wailing]
-[indistinct chattering] -[machine beeping regularly]
[Yvette] I had had 17 friends die of AIDS during the AIDS crisis.
My best friend Ed, his partner was also,
and sort of helped them when they were having health problems.
And I was in my twenties, and this is what was happening.
When you're just wondering if the people that you love
are gonna be here the next day and the day after that.
[dramatic music playing]
[man] I believe that God does not judge people.
God judges sin.
And I do believe that AIDS,
generally caused and believed to be caused by homosexual promiscuity,
is a violation of God's laws, laws of nature and decency,
and as a result, we pay the price when we violate the laws of God.
[Yvette] So to go into a church situation that is very structured,
and the rules are very clear,
it's a relief, and I-- and that's exactly how I felt.
It was a relief.
[ethereal vocal music playing]
[music continues]
[man] I grew up in a time when it was a crime,
a sickness,
and a sin to be gay.
I wanted desperately to change.
I had wanted to change since I was a kid getting bullied for it.
Our church was a great big megachurch that I was attending in Anaheim,
and they had support groups for divorced people
and people that were struggling with alcoholism or drug abuse,
and I thought, "How come there's no group for people like me,
that have gay feelings?"
So, I got the idea of starting a support group
within our own local church.
[indistinct chattering]
Everybody felt that this was a wonderful relief,
that they didn't have to struggle alone anymore.
They didn't have to pretend--
They didn't have to pretend they were the only one.
But we really believed that if you kept repeating it,
if you kept claiming that God was changing you, that He would.
At that time, we thought we were the only support group
like it in the country.
But then we began to hear that there were other small ministries like ours
that were popping up kind of spontaneously in different parts of the country.
And we thought, "Wouldn't it be cool to get together these small ministries
and discuss together what we were trying to do
and what should happen next?"
So we decided to get together and form a conference in Anaheim in 1976,
and that's where the organization Exodus was born.
[dramatic music playing]
[Michael] And then letters started pouring in
from Christians who had no place else to go
and suddenly were hearing about this organization
that might be able to help them.
There were thousands of people that were looking for a group like Exodus.
[ticking]
It was once unthinkable,
but today it happens in households all over America.
A child comes to breakfast and says, "Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay,
but I don't want to be."
Some parents are learning about a Christian program called Exodus,
which claims to convert gays,
make them ex-gays with a course of Bible study,
behavior modification, and peer counseling.
John Paulk is vice president of Exodus, which was founded 21 years ago.
-Are you straight now? -I am.
-You are? -I am.
You're not a gay person who fights with yourself every day?
No.
You're not a person who fantasizes about men?
-No. -Never?
I never would have gotten married
if I felt on the inside like a gay person.
[John narrating] It's funny what to be known for,
but at one point, I really was the most famous ex-gay person
in the world.
[crowd laughing]
I arose to national prominence
because I'm a very articulate person.
So, I'm articulate, I'm outgoing,
I was fearless, I stood out in front,
and I became a figurehead.
I was the visible person for this movement.
[anchorwoman] The woman he married is a former lesbian he met at Exodus,
and now they have a baby boy.
[John] There were many leaders,
but I was the visual aid because I had this extreme story
of married to an ex-lesbian.
I mean, we were constantly barraged to be on shows, and talk shows,
and this newspaper, and that news program,
-and on, and on, and on. -[audience applauding]
[host] Meet John Paulk and Anne Edward.
At one time, they were both gay.
Now they are so in love with each other, they're engaged to be married.
Both of you find God and say, "I want to not be gay anymore"?
[John] Whether you're gay or whatever you're into,
it doesn't change the fact God loves you,
but this was not God's original intent for you.
[John narrating] I had become the chairman of the board of Exodus.
My role was to get the message out
that homosexuality was changeable.
I don't believe that change is possible.
I believe that homosexuality, just like heterosexuality,
is a gift from God.
[John] Would that be like saying a child molester can't change,
or a wife-beater can't change?
Well, that's-- Now wait a second. Being gay is not being a child molester.
No, I-- I'm not comparing it to that. I'm saying it's a certain behavior.
There is behavior that's connected with homosexuality.
And we're just saying that if you want to change,
there is a way to do it.
[audience applauding]
[anchorwoman] This Exodus group is one of more than 100 organizations
working with gays who want to lead straight lives.
[Michael] We believed that homosexuality
is a psychological illness that you needed treatment for.
Those psychological beliefs,
everybody now in the psychological, psychiatric community would agree,
are outdated and completely wrong.
[Michael] But Exodus, at its peak, was the largest organization
promoting reparative therapy or conversion therapy.
I've been in Love In Action Program for 660 days.
My powerlessness over homosexuality and compulsive sexual behavior
has led me into masturbation, mutual masturbation,
short-term and long-term homosexual relationships…
[Michael] In conversion therapy, the explanation for why you are gay
is that you must've been traumatized as a child.
Either by direct abuse,
sexual molestation, physical abuse by parents,
or by inadequate or toxic parenting.
If you can resolve those parenting issues,
then your innate heterosexuality will emerge.
I feel restored and reconciled with my relationship with my dad.
[sighs deeply]
[crying] 'Cause God has brought a lot of healing.
[group] We love you, Glen.
I love you.
Very few of the leaders had any kind of formal education
in psychology, counseling, human sexuality.
They had no qualifications to do what they were doing.
My name is Jeff Harwood, and I've been in love…
[Michael] A lot of the people that we were counseling had panic attacks
and deep depression.
We had guys that actually attempted overdose,
attempted suicide
because they felt guilty that they couldn't change.
[indistinct praying]
I couldn't continue to pretend that I was changing.
And I couldn't continue to pretend the people I was "helping" were changing.
And I thought, "Okay, this is enough."
"I'm harming people."
But when I left in 1979,
Exodus kept growing.
[kids chattering in distance]
We'll take a lot of pictures together.
-It's mainly, like, candids of people. -[Julie] Mm-hmm.
We do things in a very slower pace, like, no rush.
We do this guided, but then you do your own thing
for an intentional,
natural look.
Are we looking at the camera? [chuckles]
[photographer] Put your hand here.
-My hand? -Like that.
[both laugh]
[giggling] I can't do it.
[Julie] Mmm.
-[Amanda] Our wedding website. -[Julie] Seventy days, babe.
So, I was at an event, and someone was like, "Where's your wife?"
And I was like, "Fiancée! But soon to be."
She's like, "You're not married? We all thought you were married."
Yeah, I know.
People thought we were married like a year ago.
I don't know how. Maybe we just seem married?
Probably 'cause we're not social and hang out with our cats all the time.
-It's the cats. -Is that what it is?
-[Amanda] It's totally the cats. Yep. -[both laugh]
[ringtone beeping]
[both energetically] Hi!
[Amanda] How are you?
I think I'm more gushy about your wedding than you guys are.
The dress, I think, is stunning.
-[Julie] Oh! -It is beautiful.
Do you have any family heirlooms,
or anything that reminds you of a grandmother,
or something that's significant in your family as well,
you can put into your bouquet, or you can put into your hair?
Those are little moments to carry your loved ones with you,
just as a sweetness to have them there.
[birds chirping]
[Julie] I was a happy kid.
[hopeful music playing]
[Julie] My family lived on three acres of land with a pond in the back,
and I just got to run wild.
We went to Bible churches, Baptist churches.
That was the only story I knew about the world,
the fundamentalist Christian teaching that said God created the world,
and God is a loving God.
And I found a lot of beauty in it, um,
the idea that God created the fishing pond,
and the stars, and the wind, and all that,
and the idea that Jesus loved us enough to want to be with us.
So I wanted to be Jesus' friend.
I wanted to be good.
Every single thing in our life was conservative Christians.
My mom was listening to all the real conservative Christian leaders
who said there's a secular agenda, and they're coming for your children.
Can you imagine five-year-olds
with their little hands folded in their laps
while their teacher talks to them
about adult perverse sexuality?
Homosexuality is moral perversion and is always wrong,
period.
Every scriptural statement on the subject
is a statement of condemnation.
[Julie] The main messages I heard about gay people were like,
"They're disgusting."
It was just always this sense of, "The gays are really, really bad."
"Dirty, and scary, and bad."
[dramatic music playing]
[Julie] I came out to my mom when I was 16,
and my mom was frantic that she has a potentially gay kid.
She took me to go meet with this guy named Ricky Chelette.
I really didn't want to meet him.
It just felt awkward, and weird,
and unlikely to work.
[traffic buzzing]
[car horn honking]
Good morning. I am so honored to be with you this morning.
[Julie] So we walk in, and Ricky walks out,
and he's like, "You must be Julie." And he shakes my hand.
He first asked me a few introductory questions,
just to try to ease the tension.
[Ricky] I want to talk to you about grace and truth. Grace and truth.
And I want to particularly talk to you about grace and truth
because I think we're in a cultural situation
in which grace and truth is hard to find, especially truth.
[Julie] And he has all these dry-erase markers.
He goes through this whole theory
of how people end up struggling with same-sex attractions.
He draws it all out.
A little mom and a little dad and a little kid's born,
and then, like, he's doing all this, and so,
essentially, like, a boy becomes gay
because he has a bad relationship with his dad,
and there's a sense of mystery towards the same-sex parent,
and when they get to adolescence, that becomes sexualized.
I asked him, like, "What if you have a great relationship
with your same-sex parent, you know, and you still feel gay?"
And he was like, "That's where the wild card comes in."
And so he talks about sexual abuse.
"Well, what about people who haven't been sexually abused?"
And then he's like, "Well, a lot of times people forget it."
I had no reason to believe it was wrong.
I hadn't heard other theories of how people end up gay.
And I'm 16, so I'm not like--
I literally know no science around any of this.
And what he drew out, like, made sense to me. I was like, "Yeah."
I know where we're going. We're going toward Jesus.
Do you want to come walk with us
until we're both transformed to look just like Him?
That's what I hope you'll do.
[Julie] Ricky was a little bit older, wiser, really good with kids.
It was sort of like having a mentor
that seemed to take interest in, like, my life.
I still didn't know at that point if I could become straight.
Like, I didn't know,
but I felt like I could devote myself to being a whole-hearted believer.
This is the path to be good.
And so,
I took it.
[rain pattering]
[Jeffrey] When I found Jesus,
I found for the first time someone who really loved me.
From that period forward,
the Lord started putting on my heart, "You need to start sharing your story."
[ethereal vocal music plays]
[people applauding]
[emcee] How's everybody doing?
-[audience] Good. -[emcee] Good.
I'm very excited and humbled to have, um, Jeffrey here.
Y'all are gonna love this brother. He's amazing.
[speaker] Come on, boy!
Man, I love you. [chuckles]
Can we give our online audience a welcome, too?
[audience applauding]
I'm trying so hard not to cry.
[speaker] I'm just thankful for you, Jeffrey.
You are a gift from heaven, for what God's doing in the Spirit.
That everywhere you plant your feet,
it is a sign that God is about to release revival
on the gay community.
And I'm just thankful for you.
-[man] Aw… -[audience applauds]
So Father, I thank you.
That he is a first fruit of the work you're doing
for this generation.
Holy Spirit, I ask that you would release fire,
anoint his tongue to share your heart,
like only He can.
And I ask that you would open ears, break stereotypes,
break narratives, and reveal Jesus.
Amen.
-[all] Amen. -[emcee] Love you, brother.
[Jeffrey chuckles]
[sighs]
When I grew up in high school in the early 2000s,
everything was shifting in the nation with homosexuality.
Will & Grace was the biggest show.
Every high school movie had the gay best friend.
And that's what I put my identity in, being homosexual.
-That was-- That was my identity. -[man] Wow.
[Jeffrey] And in the LGBTQ community, that is their identity.
I'm gay. I'm lesbian. I'm transgender.
Why does it have such a powerful stronghold over them?
Because it's the enemy trying to make them think that's their identity.
-[woman] Yeah. -No other group says things like that.
A lot of these schools are pushing that. They want people to get on hormones
or start having the surgeries and chopping up their body.
And so, you need to be very careful where you send your children to school.
[man] That's true.
You need to find somewhere
they won't be counseling people to chop up their body.
-[woman] Yes. -[man] Yeah.
[Yvette] When I got into the church, I just followed the rules.
This is what you do.
You read the Bible, and you believe what the Bible says.
And then, it became a matter of,
well, the leaders are the special ones.
I have to perform in order to be in this special group.
I have to perform in order to be recognized
and affirmed the way that I want to be.
In the early days,
I spoke at a fundraising meeting in Laguna Hills.
[hostess] I very much wanted to have Yvette speak…
[Yvette] The house was packed, which made me really nervous.
And I had prepared for a long time for this
'cause I wanted it to be perfect.
[hostess] She is very articulate
on speaking on the homosexual political agenda.
And that is why we asked, let's videotape it
to possibly enable you to have a position
as a national spokesperson on this, uh, subject.
So that's why Yvette's here.
What's happening in the political level,
they're trying to give homosexuals special rights.
We're not talking equal rights, here.
We're talking special rights, giving them special minority status.
This is such a huge issue right now
that there's really no excuse for not getting involved. And it could…
[Yvette] You could hear a pin drop. People were riveted.
And then we did a Q and A afterwards
so people could ask whatever they wanted and also see that I knew the topic well.
Well, thank you all for coming. I wasn't expecting this many people.
[audience applauding]
[Yvette] And afterwards, a woman sitting in the front row
asked me if I'd be willing to relocate to Washington, D.C.
[suspenseful music playing]
[Yvette] So I get a phone call that said, "Can you come for an interview
at Family Research Council?"
Family Research Council is one of the most prominent Christian-right organizations
in the country.
They have a lot of political power.
[anchorman] FRC's experts are well-known by the media
for their cutting-edge analysis
and quick response to breaking news stories.
Voicing your values to defend family, faith, and freedom.
[Yvette] The leadership there were all straight, white men.
They were looking for a spokesperson
who had been gay.
And I was told, "You're gonna be great because you're young,
you have a Hispanic last name,
and you don't look gay."
This is my business card.
Probably the only one I have left, when I was Yvette Cantu, Policy Analyst.
[card thuds]
This was a press conference that we did,
and I had only been at FRC for maybe two weeks, less than two weeks.
We're gonna take you now to the National Press Club.
We have a camera this morning
at a news conference to be held by the Family Research Council.
Today, we're here to talk about what some major world religions
have to say about homosexuality.
[Yvette] The conservative Christian lobby always needs something
they can really get their constituents riled up about
and willing to give money
and willing to vote.
What can really get people riled up?
Homosexuality.
[cheering]
[Yvette] The general feeling was that gay rights were inevitable.
We looked at it like, this is going to destroy the family as we know it.
And that it would erode the rights of Christians.
What I do at Family Research Council
is opposing an aggressive homosexual agenda,
which is trying to destroy marriage,
which is trying to bring about gay adoption.
A child needs a mother and a father.
Let me just interject one thing.
I just feel I need to say something about my opponent's organization.
It doesn't matter if it's gay families, civil rights, employment, housing.
They have a fundamental anti-gay agenda.
I, I personally came out of the homosexual lifestyle
that I was in for six years.
I have 15 dead gay male friends who have died of AIDS.
My point in all this is to show
that it is a dangerous, destructive lifestyle,
and people can leave it.
I don't want to get rid of these because I want to remember.
I don't want to forget. Like, this is part of my life.
This is part of what I did,
but it's hard to look back.
[sighs deeply, huffs]
[traffic buzzing softly]
[Julie] I started at Living Hope when I was 16,
and I didn't move away from Living Hope till I was 25.
I was doing a weekly counseling session with Ricky,
a weekly Living Hope meeting, we just called it "group,"
and then I would usually have lunch at Ricky's house on Sunday afternoon.
So, like, more days than not, I was at Living Hope stuff.
My whole entire life was structured around not being gay.
There was a high population of youth who were at Living Hope.
It was at least 50 people that were cycling through.
[somber music playing]
We weren't allowed to have outside contact with each other.
So we weren't allowed to be friends on Facebook
or to know each other's last names.
The reason that we couldn't share any identifying information
was because they were worried
we would all meet up and have sex with each other.
We were only allowed to talk when we were, like, supervised.
[railroad crossing bell dinging]
[Julie] Ricky would say
a big part of it's gonna be, like, your spiritual walk,
spending time reading the Bible, and praying,
and, um, giving up masturbation. Masturbation was a big deal.
Giving up masturbation, definitely giving up porn.
It was decided between my mom and Ricky
that I was gonna quit softball so I wouldn't become gay,
and I had to go to a Christian college so I wouldn't become a lesbian.
If you were to say, like,
"What does Julie need to do to become straight?"
It was a lot.
-[indistinct chattering] -[dramatic music playing]
[Randy] One of the things that Exodus International was known for
was our annual conference,
where people could go and learn more
about the whole journey of overcoming same-sex attractions
and to have fellowship with other people who believed similarly.
We would have lots of workshops,
and they would range in topics from family dynamics,
to helping men embrace their masculinity,
or women to rejoice in their femininity.
[speaker] …focus on 33, which talks about, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God."
A mistake they make is they start thinking about the rest of their lives.
They're drawn into lesbianism probably because
she wants to protect against further hurt from a man.
She needs a lot of healing
before she could ever be open to a relationship with a man.
[indistinct chattering]
[Julie] I went to my first Exodus conference
when I was 17 years old.
Ricky took a big group of people from Living Hope every single year.
It was the first time I met a bunch of really, really cool people
who were devoted to this process.
I was supposed to, like, embrace my femininity.
They taught us to wear makeup,
and the guys would go play football.
[spectators whooping, applauding]
[Julie] They would say,
"It's not that we think football's gonna make you straight,
but it will give you another way of connecting with the guys."
"And makeup's gonna give you another way of connecting with the girls
and your femininity."
That is a part of shifting things in here that's gonna shift your attractions.
[speaker] Hopefully you are beginning to see some of the root causes
that can affect your sexuality and your identity, and…
[Julie] You're still doing Bible studies and small groups and learning things.
But you also stay up till two in the morning,
talking, and laughing, and telling jokes.
I remember especially the late-night times when all the leaders were in bed,
and we just got to be our little queer selves, and it was,
in many ways, like, one of the few safe places
in our lives, and I know that sounds really crazy
'cause it was an Exodus International conference,
but at that time, that was what belonging looked like for us.
A lot of times, people that struggle with this always feel so alone,
struggle with same-sex attraction, always feel so alone.
It's great to see others who've been in the same shoes.
[interviewer] And what do you hope to come out of this week?
A stronger person, um,
more knowledgeable in areas I still don't really get,
and I might never get, but, um, just to have more courage
to stand up and stuff.
[dramatic music playing]
[Randy] Is this on?
I wanna invite the prayer team up. Come on up, guys.
A lot of you may be feeling pressure.
You may be feeling like you're in darkness.
But you sense that there is a hand reaching towards you.
And you want that hand to grasp you, the hand of the Lord, to pull you out,
to reveal the splendor of what He's created you to be.
Brothers and sisters, in Jesus' name, step forward,
take your rightful place in the body of Christ.
Come forward and receive prayer. Come forward and make your declaration,
that I will not go back to the darkness.
[Julie] There were several speakers throughout that week,
big ex-gay names.
And they told these stories of this big conversion to Jesus,
and realizing God loved them, realizing they "didn't have to be gay,"
was how they would frame it.
There were really compelling stories.
And so I remember feeling like,
I wanna be like them. Like, I wanna be
cool, and happy, and loved by God.
[soft piano music playing]
[music stops]
[ad narrator] You may have seen John and Anne Paulk on the cover of Newsweek.
Both former homosexuals, now married to each other.
But are there others like them?
I was active in the gay community for 13 years.
I was in it for six years,
then struggled for five years before finding true freedom.
It was 13 years for me.
Four for me, but we both walked away from it.
[John] The whole Christian church is based on being married,
being a family man,
and having children.
I had a goal when I went to Exodus,
was to get married and be a father.
That wasn't just something I hoped someday would happen.
It was a goal I pursued with a vengeance.
Now, how do you two get together?
[chuckles] We were not friends at first,
because we were still in the middle of our own gender identity confusion.
But slowly we became friends,
and based out of a friendship, we fell in love.
I accepted Jesus as my savior
and, uh, and then read what the Bible had to say.
At that point, things started to change in my life.
[John] We were taught, "You'll become friends with a woman,
you will feel safe with her,
and hopefully a sexual attraction will grow on top of that."
They would say, "You don't have to be attracted to all women."
"You only have to be attracted to one."
"Just one, 'cause that's the one you'll fall in love with,
and that's the one you're going to marry."
"Just one."
[partner] How do you undo the end?
Okay, so, you gotta do it with a different knife.
You're using a big knife.
Use a small one and just make a little V.
[knife clatters]
That takes it out. Okay?
[bangs loudly]
Sorry, baby.
-[partner] That's kind of cool. -I know.
See, I'm gonna teach you about how to do some of this fancy stuff.
[knife chopping, scraping]
[rake scraping]
[John] So here we were.
My wife wore these beautiful Talbots suits,
and wore makeup,
and looked very elegant.
And we had children, and the children were on TV with us.
In some ways, I didn't see myself as a gay person anymore.
Because to me, to be gay would mean I was having sex,
I was going to gay bars, I associated with gay people.
I based being gay on behavior.
It was the behavior that made you gay, not your feelings.
But my feelings were very much gay.
I've had a successful marriage for ten years,
have a very fulfilling emotional and sexual relationship with my wife,
have fathered two sons, so something has changed.
[audience laughing]
[John narrating] If I had said,
"Well, of course I'm tempted by homosexuality,"
that would have been honest.
However, I didn't feel like I could be honest,
because I'm not just sitting here representing myself.
I am representing a whole movement.
And if I say, "Well, I'm still tempted by it,"
what does that say to someone?
[director] Do you feel like you were lying?
I did lie.
I-- See, I can say that now with no-- w-with-- with…
Well, with shame and embarrassment.
My mother came from a very domineering home…
[John narrating] I realized that my dishonesty hurt people.
Because I was dishonest, it caused people in the audience,
people that were struggling with homosexuality or had gay feelings,
to feel like, "There must be something wrong with me
'cause I'm not like him."
And, "He doesn't-- He's not tempted anymore."
"So if I'm tempted, I must be broken and damaged."
[audience applauding]
[applause fading]
[dog barking]
[Jeffrey] My story's just one of many.
So I wanted people that have similar stories to mine
to be able to share.
That's what the Freedom March gave them, a platform to share.
Because mainstream media doesn't share our types of stories.
That's why I started Freedom March, is to give them a voice.
This has only been going for six months.
That says 3,924 follows,
about 1,000 more than I even thought. [chuckles]
There's just so many.
[cell phone ringing]
[Jeffrey] Hello?
[female voice] Oh, hi, Jeffrey!
I stumbled across your Facebook.
I started following your pages 'cause it was just so hopeful to me
to hear about your story and what happened to you.
[quivering] And what I hope happens to my son, you know?
Wanna go ahead and tell me a little bit of what's been going on?
So we have a 20-year-old son.
He said, "I'm a transgender girl."
And I looked at him, and I said,
"You're a boy."
And he's been gone for about six months now.
And it's been really hard.
I miss him so much.
But he thinks that I'm rejecting him because I won't call him my daughter.
How can I agree with that
when, in my conscience, I believe that's a lie?
Well, I think he knows you love him.
-He just wants you… -Yeah, he does.
He wants you to do it the way he wants you to do it. [chuckles]
-Exactly! Exactly. -And… And sometimes…
If someone is--
If a child is going out on the road,
a parent's not going to let a semi-truck come and hit them.
If they have to yank them up, if they have to go grab them,
they're gonna get them out of the road. And that's how-- what you're trying to do.
That's right. That's confirmation to me. I appreciate that.
[Jeffrey] It's a strong spirit that wants to force you to call him a woman,
and he's not. It wants you to bow down,
and you're gonna say yes, and you have to agree with what it says.
-Don't do that. -That's what it feels like. Exactly.
I do believe, um,
that you have to stand in faith with this.
Okay.
[silence]
[Julie] I've been working on a book for the last year,
trying to make sense of my experience
and writing everything that happened.
[train horn blaring]
[Julie] When I was in Living Hope, every week we would meet in Ricky's office
to talk about all this deep, intense sexual, emotional baggage
in this one private counseling setting.
It was kind of like a normal therapy appointment in many ways
where you sit down and talk about your week
and what's going on, and then you start getting deeper
into the stuff that's really bothering you.
But there was a little more of a confessional element.
I felt like I had to tell Ricky everything,
every sexual attraction, or feeling, or crush that I might have.
I felt the need to report if I had a lesbian boss,
or lesbian customers that came in at the restaurant where I worked.
Let's say I had, like, acted out sexually with somebody else.
I would've definitely needed to have confessed that
and told all the circumstances around it,
when we first started talking, when we texted,
when we decided we were gonna do something, when we met up,
why I hadn't cut off contact,
what was going on in my life outside of it that made me turn to that.
[crow caws]
[Julie] Everything where I felt like I was falling short
of what I was supposed to be,
I felt like I had to confess that and work through it.
I'll go back and read old journal entries,
and it's all, "God forgive me for having such evil flesh."
"And the only hope for me is that God would save me from myself."
I was a teenager, and I was a really good teenager.
I just thought I was so bad.
[indistinct voice speaking]
-[gong echoes] -[audience applauding]
[moderator] It's my great privilege and honor to introduce our next speaker.
He's a psychologist.
He is really like a maverick in the mental health community.
He's a renegade.
Because the mental health community believes that to receive help
for unwanted same-sex attractions, that should not be allowed.
And he doesn't care what they say.
He's been treating men for unwanted same-sex attractions
for 30 years.
[audience applauding]
I remember years ago when I first started this work,
um, the guy with the homosexual problem would come in,
and they begin to see that the homosexual image
is really a defense against that inner core emptiness.
[Michael] People may wrongly assume that the whole ex-gay movement
is strictly a religious thing,
but alongside the formation of Exodus
were this group of psychologists and therapists
who had made their livings
and their careers trying to cure gay people.
It's because things happen to you…
[Michael] It was awful pseudo-psychology.
What they were saying was not based on any good science,
but Exodus was looking for some sort of respectability.
"It's not just us who believe this."
"It's actual therapists and psychiatrists who also know
that what we're saying is true."
[anchorwoman] Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is part of an organization of 500 therapists
working with gays who want to lead straight lives.
[Randy] There was a symbiotic relationship between
our need for credibility,
and then of course, the therapists who get clients.
[indistinct chattering]
[Randy] Our networks were infused
with their books,
with their teachings, with their therapeutic approach.
This sounds awful, but it was a mutually…
It was a mutually beneficial business arrangement.
[sniffles, sobbing]
[Nicolosi] You're holding back. Talk to me.
I want to know what you're feeling.
[sniffles]
[sighs]
I'm just thinking about this person that's so broken.
[sniffs]
-[exhales] -Yourself?
-Myself. -So broken?
You feel broken?
[whispers] Yeah.
How does it feel,
feeling broken sitting right here in front of me?
I'm looking at you. How does it feel to be broken as I look at you?
[sniffling]
Hurtful?
Very sad?
Very sad to feel broken.
-Very sad to feel broken. -[sniffs]
Can you feel my acceptance of you as broken?
-[sniffs] -What's that feel like?
[sighs] Feels good.
That feels good.
I just wish I wasn't here at this time.
I mean, I wish I wasn't here in my mind right now.
-Of course. -Huh.
[exhales]
[crying] I feel like-- I just feel like a bad person.
I feel like…
-[sobbing] -Mm-hmm.
This man, what brought him into therapy was,
he was acting out with men while he was married.
Since that time,
they have done very, very well, and he has not acted out in a year
and-- and tells me he has no desire to act out,
homosexually.
[all] Lord God, in the light of your glory,
we see the wrong we have done and the truth we have denied.
Heal us of our sin, wash us in your mercy,
and feed us with your grace
so that we may follow Your way and live out the Good News of the Gospel.
Amen.
You have received that forgiveness, and that grace, and that peace from God.
We're gonna take a moment to share that peace with one another.
[indistinct chattering]
Good morning!
What's your name? I'm Julie.
[Julie] From the time that I was 17,
Ricky was saying, "You're gonna be the next big thing."
He had a big hope for me that I was gonna carry the mantle.
And so they put me up as a poster child when I was really young.
People would come to me with these visions of, like,
"I see a stadium of 10,000 people,
and you're just preaching the Gospel and a message of hope and healing."
It was definitely a big part of my involvement
at Living Hope and Exodus,
was this idea that I was called to be the next big leader.
Please give a very warm welcome to my friend, Julie Rodgers.
[audience applauding, whooping]
Oh, I'm okay.
I came home one day,
and I told my mom that I was a lesbian, and that I was sick of hiding it from her.
Well, she freaked out,
and, uh, she somehow got in touch with Ricky Chelette
from Living Hope Ministries. Shout out, Living Hope!
[audience whoops]
That's my people. He was actually, um…
[Julie narrating] Ricky had told Exodus leadership
that I should be speaking,
and I probably spoke for them at eight to ten different conferences.
[Julie on stage] So I'd decided, by senior year high school,
I was gonna give my life to the Lord and follow him with all of my heart.
[Julie narrating] I had a really bad experience
when I was in college, involving sexual assault.
And the people in Living Hope were the only people I told about it.
I don't think they knew quite what to do with it.
But what happened was, very quickly after,
within the next year, um,
Ricky wanted me to incorporate that into my testimony.
I decided I didn't want to share that,
and I went with Ricky somewhere and, like, gave my testimony beforehand.
I decided I didn't wanna share that detail
because I was like, it just didn't feel right.
I don't feel comfortable about it. This is something that's mine
that I need to work through more.
And on the way home that night, um,
he would always kind of, like, give me pointers,
and he was like, "You know, you did a really good job
sharing your testimony, um,
but I just really regret that you left out the part about the rape."
And I was like,
"I didn't feel like talking about it."
And he was like, "I just think it kind of removes some of the power
from your testimony."
And he actually, um, ended up taking advantage of me,
sexually, that night
when we went back to his apartment, he-- he…
…essentially ra-- raping me.
[Julie narrating] I ended up telling the story,
but I remember feeling, like, so angry
that all of these really intimate experiences of my life
were being orchestrated and put together in a way that pushed in a narrative,
"Men are bad, and I hate men,
and because of abuse, I have turned to women."
[Julie on stage] You let that happen?
I tried to believe men could be trusted, and that happens?
I'm done with this!
[dramatic music plays]
[group sings in background] ♪ What eyes could look on ♪
♪ Your glorious face ♪
♪ Shining like the sun ♪
[Julie] Looking back, I definitely wish I hadn't been exploited in that way,
and put up as a prop at way too young of an age,
when I was really emotionally vulnerable.
Oh my gosh, look who it is!
Three of my favorite people.
[friend] How are you, boy?
[Jeffrey] Oh my gosh, what took y'all so long?
-How are we doing? -[indistinct chattering]
-Hi, precious!
This is the church.
This is ecclesia. This is the church.
[lively indistinct chattering]
The article from yesterday is, like, going through the roof.
People from all over the country are clicking on it.
-That's amazing! -Yes.
-Word's getting out there. -Amen.
It's blowing up.
-Mmm! [laughs] -Yes, I love it!
Hey, y'all. We're about to start worship.
[friend 2] They're about to start worship.
[friend 3 loudly] Okay, everybody be quiet please!
Quiet.
While I was here in 2017 was when the thought came to me,
"We need to have a march for people who left LGBTQ lifestyles."
The Freedom March is just all about y'all's stories.
It's not just about my story. It's about celebrating all your stories.
Also, the Lord put on my heart to say, "Be obedient in whatever He tells you."
When you step out in obedience once, He'll trust you more and more and more,
and you will just continue to grow. And a lot of times, it's the little things
He watches us on at home, the little things.
Are you being obedient with something He tells you little
and not just a big ministry thing? It's just every day being obedient.
'Cause He said those that love Him will obey Him.
[group murmurs]
[stomping]
[prayer leader] I want you guys to understand what's happening.
This is the sound of unity.
This is the sound of a warrior, and that means business.
[man] Yeah! Whoo!
[all sing] ♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
♪ I'm a warrior ♪
♪ I'm a warrior, I'm a warrior… ♪
[prayer leader] You prophesied of this Freedom March.
-It belongs to you, Father. -[group] Yes!
Right now, what's happening is you are bringing your warriors
in formation!
[cheering]
-[feet stomping] -♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
♪ To this nation ♪
♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
♪ Is roaring, is roaring ♪
♪ Is roaring for me ♪
♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
♪ Is roaring, is roaring… ♪
[tense music playing]
[indistinct murmuring, praying]
[unsettling music continues]
[music fading]
I'm gonna read from the section about a group gathering at Living Hope.
How old were you during this time?
I was 17 when I started it,
and then this goes pretty much like up through the end of college,
I would say.
"The first time I burned myself,
I was sitting on a curb outside of the church
after a Living Hope meeting."
"As my cigarette burned low, without giving it much thought,
I shoved the burning end of it into my shoulder and listened
as the skin on my left arm sizzled."
"Shortly after that night, I sat alone in my room,
lost in a whirlwind of fear, agony, and self-loathing."
"That's when I remembered the cigarette burn
and the wave of detachment that washed through my body
the moment the fire seared my skin."
"After scanning my room for ment-- metal objects that would heat under fire,
I landed on a quarter."
"Clamping the quarter with tweezers, I plunged it into the flame of a lighter,
my heart rate rising as the coin heated up."
"I inhaled, flexed my left arm, and pressed the quarter deep in my flesh
until the skin broke and the pain numbed."
"I repeated the process at least 20 times that afternoon,
searing straight lines into my shoulder, each a few inches wide."
"For weeks, I engaged in a routine of applying Neosporin to the wounds
every morning and evening."
"We were safe in those moments, me and my body."
"I could roll up my shirt sleeve, expose my wounds,
and be met with tenderness and compassion."
"In the years that followed, when the anguish became unbearable,
I would return to this routine,
burning straight lines into my shoulders and tending to the wounds to self-soothe."
[sniffs]
"I've heard depression described as anger turned inward."
"Perhaps that's what I was doing in my dorm room all those years ago."
"I took the rage I felt about living in a body that couldn't be submitted
into the kind of body it was supposed to be,
a straight body, a feminine body, a good Christian body,
and I lit it on fire."
-[whispers] I love you, babe. -[whispers] I love you.
I'm sorry.
[Julie] Yeah, it's kind of intense.
[Amanda softly] Yeah, it is.
[traffic buzzing]
[car horn honking]
[footsteps tapping]
[indistinct chattering]
[John] Over the years,
it was increasingly harder to keep my homosexuality--
keeping the lid on it.
Primarily, it was through use of pornography,
which my wife would discover, and it would very much trouble her.
I can understand why it would trouble her.
It was threatening.
It was disobedient.
It meant-- Did it mean I was reverting back?
I remember her turning to me one day and saying,
"John, why can't you just obey?"
"Why can't you make the Godly decision?"
And I remember saying to her,
"I-- I-- don't know."
[somber music playing]
I don't know why it didn't go away.
I don't know how to make it go away.
It's getting worse. The older I get, it's getting worse.
I found myself surrounded by people who loved me,
my wife and my sons,
and I felt all alone.
I…
ached to be loved and to love a man.
And I had gotten to the point where
the root causes of all this
didn't matter anymore.
The right or wrong of this, biblically, didn't matter anymore.
I thought, "If I don't go on this journey to figure out who I am,
I will take my life."
I will take my life.
I was in Washington D.C. for meetings,
and I started drinking.
I got intoxicated,
and I went into a gay bar.
Someone came up to me and recognized who I was.
I mean, really, what was I thinking?
There was a gay activist that was called. He was outside the bar.
And he took a photograph of me with my hand in front of my face
and me running down the street.
[indistinct arguing]
[cars whizzing]
[indistinct voices shouting]
[Yvette] It was a Monday morning.
And I got into my office, and I knew that John was there.
He was a friend of mine.
So he comes into my office,
and I thought we would just chat and catch up.
And he was shaking. He sat on my chair. He barely looked at me.
I knew this was gonna come out immediately, so I lied.
I said I didn't know it was a gay bar,
and I had gone in there to use the bathroom.
Well, any person with half a brain realized, "Come on, John."
He knew it was much bigger than what he was telling us.
And I felt so bad for him
because he was leaning over in the chair with his cup of coffee,
which I'll never forget, and saying,
"I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
And that's what he kept saying, "I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
I was so…
like, "What in the world?"
And not within five minutes, the phone started ringing off the wall.
Everybody just thought John was amazing, that he hung the moon.
He was successful. He was eloquent. He had a great testimony.
And just like any prominent, charismatic leader,
who doesn't live up to their audience's ideals,
when he was busted running from the gay bar,
it sent everybody into a shock.
[dramatic music playing]
[John] My wife had had enough.
She filed legal separation papers.
She divorced me.
I had never been honest a day in my life.
It was lie, after lie, after lie, after lie.
-[traffic buzzing] -[horn honking]
When John left the movement, it was very memorable
because of his impact on the movement as a whole, um,
but as far as the functioning of Exodus, it continued unhindered.
Um, yes, my name is Randy Thomas.
I'm the executive vice president for Exodus.
We have almost 200 member agencies in Canada and the United States.
[Randy narrating] Exodus started getting more political in 2003.
We started traveling to D.C. to participate in meetings and events
with religious-right leaders and power brokers.
They knew that they had a problem humanizing the issues.
And we were there to help them fix that problem.
They couldn't say,
"Our views are healthier than gay-- LGBTQ views,"
but they can.
-[dramatic music playing] -[crowd cheering, applauding]
[Randy] There was a huge push
to do everything that we could while Bush was in office
and both houses of Congress were Republican-controlled
to stave off LGBTQ rights
as much as possible, and maybe forever.
Marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal,
and the job of the president is to drive policy toward the ideal.
[crowd cheering]
[anchorwoman] Just after midnight,
thousands celebrated what was once just a dream in Massachusetts.
[Randy] The most important investment Exodus made into politics
was over the marriage battle.
That was so important to us
because we were promoting an idealized version of life.
Gay marriage felt like an existential threat
against our idealized goals for people in our ministries.
They were seeing the culture say it's healthy and good
to marry the person that you're truly attracted to and love.
Well, we had to counter that message.
You wanna know why I fight so hard for the marriage issue?
Because marriage transcends what we understand of it
and bears the image of God.
[anchorman] Same-sex couples have been getting legally married in California,
but the ceremonies will stop if Proposition 8 passes,
amending California's constitution
so it defines marriage as only between one man
and one woman.
I started working for Exodus in the summer of 2008,
so right before the elections.
[audience whooping, applauding]
[Yvette] And I went to work on the Prop 8 campaign immediately.
I was invited to this event,
and they had cameras there
so that people in churches all across
the state of California could watch this event that we're putting on.
I don't mean to be crass, but men and women's body parts
fit together to become a single organism…
-[guests laugh] -[applause]
…for…
[guests chuckles, speak indistinctly]
…for the purpose of creating children.
If sexual orientation
or sexual attractions were the basis upon which we were allowed to marry,
then pedophiles would have to be allowed to marry six-, seven-, eight-year-olds.
Mothers and sons,
sisters and brothers, any-- any combination would have to be allowed.
[Yvette narrating] A big part of the message
was the slippery slope argument.
Okay, so you're saying two women or two men now,
but then what's it gonna become?
It's just knowing the fears that people have.
What is it that I can say that is really going to scare them,
if they're on the fence?
And a lot of people were on the fence
and just sort of ambivalent one way or the other, and you think,
"Oh well, you know, who cares how this is gonna affect me?"
"This is how it's gonna affect you."
[cheering, applauding]
Churches made a point of saying, "You are voting yes on this."
I'm convinced that this is what pushed Prop 8 over,
why it passed.
It's the kindness of God that leads us to repent.
[cheering]
[Yvette on stage] It's the kindness of God…
[Yvette narrating] So many churches coming together.
I've never seen something like that happen before,
ever, before Prop 8.
-[cheering] -[Yvette speaking inaudibly]
[distorted cheering]
[distorted cheering continues]
[Randy] When Prop 8 passed,
I was not an Obama supporter at the time.
Back then, I was like, "Ugh, Obama won."
You know?
But Prop 8 passed!
You know, and I was talking up a good game on social media.
[clamoring]
[anchorman] Thousands marched in California,
protesting the election night passage of Proposition 8.
[anchorwoman] A massive protest on the passage of Proposition 8,
the ban on same-sex marriage.
I had never felt such a sense of…
of being less of a person.
-[reporter] You're crying. -Yeah.
I'm just ashamed of our state.
[Randy] But I'll never forget that night, watching the news.
[solemn music playing]
[music continues]
[clicks tongue]
[quivering] Seeing my community…
Back then, I didn't realize it, but I knew in my heart.
Watching my community take to the streets…
and mourning the passage of Prop 8.
When I looked at the TV,
and a voice inside me said,
"How could you do that to your own people?"
[music continues]
[quivering] And I saw these men crying.
And I knew that their dreams had just been shattered.
And I couldn't talk the same way after that.
[music continues]
[music stops]
[Yvette] After Prop 8, I started having extreme anxiety,
panic attacks.
We were driving down to an Exodus conference,
and we were probably two hours into the drive,
and I started having a panic attack.
Every time I'm going to do something that's related to Exodus
or ex-gay things,
I'm gonna have these panic attacks.
I still didn't know.
I didn't know why.
I met with this therapist,
and she said, "Obviously you have trauma here,
because you're exhibiting symptoms that are more like PTSD."
And that's when it really started to dawn on me.
There's something wrong.
So it wasn't even conscious.
It was more physical at first,
where my body just would not allow me to continue.
When we're talking about the ex-gay movement,
it's wanting to be part of a group.
It's wanting to belong,
and here are my people.
Here are people who have the same struggles as I do.
So you're going to abide by the rules of the group.
And even if there's shame involved,
it seems like a small price to pay for what you're getting.
[therapist] That was the major theme throughout our work…
[Yvette] Yeah.
[therapist] …to understand shame.
Shame being this inherent feeling of, "I am wrong."
-Right. -"I am bad."
I think we all struggle all the time with trying to manage that.
You're in a place now in your life where nobody's gonna tell you what to do,
and no one's gonna tell you who you are.
[inhales deeply] It's so different.
[crying] 'Cause I've spent nine years in this room,
and I've changed so much in that time.
[sniffles] I'm nothing like what I was.
Nothing.
[sighs]
[Yvette] The puzzle pieces were coming together.
Even with the same-sex attractions in myself,
those never went away.
Is that change, then?
Because before I had been defining change on actions alone.
Then I'm thinking, "Well, did that really go away?"
No! I just changed
how-- what my connections with people were.
And I just avoided things.
But did I really change?
Oops!
[daughter laughs]
-[piece clatters] -And I gotta move.
-[daughter] Hey, hey, hey. -Oh! Oh!
[Yvette] I would classify myself as bisexual.
I love my husband.
Been married for a long time.
And then I knew, okay, then I have the capacity for both.
You know, I-- I'm attracted to both.
-[husband] There you go. -Actually, that kind of works out for me.
[husband] You're cheating because it's Mother's Day.
[Yvette] Yep. [laughs]
[hopeful music playing]
[Julie] Ugh! This is so great.
[wedding planner] I know! Such a great view.
Wow. It's gonna be so gorgeous.
[whispers] Wow.
[wedding planner] You guys will walk out as a couple,
and then if you're thinking about doing formals at the high altar,
we'll stash you away, and then let your guests clear out.
When cocktail hour is in full swing, you'll come back up.
-Oh my goodness! -Yeah.
Will you take a picture of us? We're just so excited.
-Which way do you wanna face? -We'll do both!
[Julie] When I was still involved at Living Hope,
I was severely, severely, severely depressed,
but I didn't know why I was overwhelmed or sad.
And I always felt like such a freak.
Like, oh, like, "What's wrong with me?"
"Like, I'm a total maniac, like, burning up and hurting my own body,"
and this and that, because I didn't see it
as a result of, like, the system and the culture
around me that made me hate myself.
I continued to believe that God will help me live a life
of purity and holiness.
I was speaking at Exodus conferences and doing writing on their blog,
and I was seen as a leader within the movement.
[crowd cheering]
[Lisa Ling] While the gay rights movement breaks historic ground,
the ranks of defectors from the ex-gay movement,
so-called "ex-ex-gays,"
are growing and growing louder.
[crowd chanting] Ex-gay, no way! Don't believe a word they say! Ex-gay…
[Lisa Ling] Michael Bussee is helping them find their voice.
Decades after founding Exodus, he has found a new calling.
[Michael] I retired a few years ago and now pretty much deal
with folks who come out of reparative therapy programs.
I have a couple of online groups I do on Facebook.
For the past several decades, I've been an outspoken former leader,
trying to educate people about the harm that these programs do
and also supporting survivors as they speak out.
[Julie] If somebody left, we didn't hear from them again.
The way they were talked about internally was like,
"Oh, they've gone to the dark side, they've given in to the flesh."
Just this kind of this crazy talk of like, they are gone. They are dead to us.
[Michael] Exodus always tried to distance themselves
from the stories of survivors.
They tried to say, "Oh, those are the outliers."
"Yeah, in every organization, there are some people who are harmed
or who-- but that's not the vast majority of people."
But the press started picking up these stories
of people that had been harmed by ex-gay programs.
That made it harder for Exodus to ignore them.
I wrote a blog post one day
to publish on Exodus's site.
And I basically, toward the end of it, spoke to ex-gay survivors and said like,
"I'm so sorry…"
"I'm so sorry that you went through this,
and I'm so sorry that you didn't hear that God loves you, like, right now,
like exactly where you are."
I said at the end of it, "I hope someday I can hear your stories."
Michael Bussee reached out to me,
and he was like, "You said you wanted to hear the stories of survivors."
"I can create a Facebook group for us to have some sort of exchange."
And so I was like, okay, like, I meant that.
Seventy-five people agreed to be a part of it.
So many of them were really gracious to me,
considering what I represented, being connected to Exodus.
And yet they were very honest about how much ex-gay teaching
had ruined their lives.
What ends up happening is
Lisa Ling reaches out to Exodus
and Michael Bussee and is like, "I heard about this group going on."
"Would y'all be interested in doing it on air?"
I was the president of Exodus at the time.
And I thought it was important that I listened to their stories.
They came up with… with a group of people, um,
some of whom I'd had direct contact with, most of whom I hadn't.
We met in a church basement
and had the most intense
group therapy encounter that I have ever been through.
[survivor] Each survivor here comes
from a different level. Some of them are fresh out.
Some of us have been surviving for 12 years,
waiting for a moment to look at you and say, "You are responsible
because you've had opportunities to see our wounds before,
and you've not done anything about it."
[survivor 2] The irony of it is
I feel I lost my soul in trying to do the right thing all the time.
Not from doing the wrong thing, not from "giving in."
I lost my soul because I did the right thing.
[quivering] And these kids,
they're killing themselves
because of things that continue to be said to them,
that they're not good enough,
and that they're not beautiful as they are.
And I am not okay with that, and I can be silent no longer.
It was absolutely devastating, and I think for me, it was the first time
that I identified more with the survivors sharing their story
than I did with anybody from Exodus.
[Julie] These stories of deep, deep pain
shook me down to my core.
Feeling like they were in many ways
sharing my story.
I remember feeling like I was sitting on the wrong side of the circle.
And I was just like,
I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't do this anymore.
Like, I can't be a part of it. This is just so toxic.
[Randy] When the Lisa Ling show came out,
I knew then that Exodus was death,
and it was destruction.
[voice quivering] Because those survivors were looking at us right in the face.
And we could no longer excuse it away. We could no longer deny it.
And that Exodus could no longer continue
to promote the idea of change
because that was a lie.
Exodus was started in 1976 to create
a community together,
but we've hurt people.
And it is for these reasons
Exodus International,
the oldest and largest Christian ministry dealing with faith and homosexuality,
is closing its doors… [quivers]
…after three-plus decades of ministry.
[hopeful music playing]
[Julie] Once Exodus was ending,
I started trying to build a life away from Living Hope.
I felt the loss of my community,
but I had to leave to get healthier.
I came to realize that I was really needy and unhealthy
because there were zero people in my life
who ever just said like, "You're okay exactly the way you are,
and we love you, and God loves you, and you don't have to change a thing."
Being able to move away from Living Hope and ex-gay teaching
and admit that I was gay
and that that was actually, like, a good thing,
for the first time, I started to feel light, and happy,
and like God loved me and liked me, and it was just all fine, and I was fine.
We've talked about how Christian communities
are where we've experienced so much pain and trauma in our lives.
At the same time,
this faith has also been a huge source of our healing.
When I interact with Jesus,
and see who Jesus was and how Jesus lived,
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing."
And so it's been really important for me to sort of separate, I guess, like,
Jesus from the Christians who hurt me.
I was here this last Friday for a service they did, um,
honoring and remembering Matthew Shepard.
And I have never seen,
I have absolutely never seen so many queer people
in a church.
[crying] All these people who have carried so much shame, and so much humiliation,
and physical abuse,
and all these things, um, got to come into a church,
probably for the first time in decades,
and to hear, "You specifically…"
"You gay person, you bisexual person, you transgender person,"
like, "You are welcome here, and you are wanted here,
and we honor your lives, and this is a safe place for you."
Having the grace to find this kind of place,
who's gonna speak that blessing over us and to us,
um, is the deepest source of healing we could ever receive.
[train rumbling]
[train horn blaring]
[Julie] After Exodus ended,
the same work that was going on under Exodus,
all those ministries,
including Ricky and Living Hope, continued doing the work.
What I do is deal with folks,
for the most part, who are struggling particularly with homosexuality.
-[audience applauding] -And spending my days, spending my days
talking with people who are sexually broken,
that there is freedom in Christ. There is freedom…
[Julie] So, conversion therapy, it appears to be flourishing and thriving
in Christian communities where I come from.
A group accused of promoting a controversial practice
aimed at changing sexual orientation
kicked off a conference in San Diego today.
When we shut down Exodus, most of the old-time leadership
decided to continue on
and try to take as many people as they could with them.
And that's how the Restored Hope Network was born.
You have to tell us about Restored Hope Network.
Restored Hope Network is a network of ministries of people like me,
who have left homosexuality,
and who want to share how to do so with others.
And that's exactly why I do this.
It's to get the word out that there is hope.
My dad and I had a strained relationship, not from a lack of love for each other,
but rather an inability
for us to really, truly connect in the way that I needed,
leading to doubt and confusion.
At the age of 14, I came out to my parents…
[Yvette] I mean, it's such indoctrination.
All of the lingo that they use,
and the pattern of the testimony,
and even the pattern of their lives.
[crying] Seeing Katie walk down the aisle…
[sniffles]
It was a day that I'll never forget.
And our wedding day was a true testament to Jesus Christ.
[audience applauding]
[Yvette] In the past five years or so,
there have been this mass defection of leaders,
but there are new people taking up the torch.
And it's not dying the way that we thought it would
or think it should.
[Jeffrey] There's some of the things that the older ex-LGBTQ ministries do
that we don't do.
[indistinct chattering]
[Jeffrey] It's just a different way.
I think it's attracted
this younger generation just going out on the streets.
[lively indistinct chattering]
[Jeffrey narrating] Instead of being behind a conference,
go out on the streets.
Instead of being behind the church building,
go out to the people. Like we're just doing it a different way.
[crowd applauding, whooping]
[emcee 1] Hello, everybody!
-[emcee 1 louder] Hello, everybody! -[whooping louder]
[emcee 1] This is our second annual Freedom March.
Some of us have traveled all across the world.
All these different faces, all these different races
to come and make a stand,
to come and let people know that freedom is here.
[emcee 2] Give it up for the leader of Freedom March, Jeffrey McCall.
[crowd applauding, whooping]
[Jeffrey on stage] The vision of this is just sharing testimonies
of people that left the LGBTQ lifestyles,
that had an encounter with God.
And we're here together to share our stories.
Prayer works!
And I stand here proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ,
that He is Lord, and I love Jesus!
Have you laid on the floor and said, "Jesus, take this away from me
because I wanna follow you, Jesus. I wanna be your son or daughter."
Lord Jesus, there is freedom in the name of Jesus Christ.
I believe that something is being birthed out of here today.
Father, I ask that you will unite us as overcomers.
Lord, we want you back in the forefronts of America.
In Jesus' name, we thank you, Father.
In Jesus' name.
[ethereal music playing]
[music fades]
Shortly after coming out,
a gay person
said very bluntly and directly that I had blood on my hands.
He said, "What do you think about the blood on your hands?"
[quivering] I said, "Right now…
all I know is I'm afraid to look down at my hands."
[indistinct chattering]
[Randy narrating] As a leader, I had been trained to acknowledge the loss
but to rationalize it away, to go into denial.
And I hate that I did that.
And for many people who don't commit suicide,
we're killing ourselves internally
by not embracing who God created us to be.
[all] Our Creator, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done,
on Earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
[Randy narrating] I can't look back and say,
"This deserves forgiveness," or "I deserve forgiveness,"
'cause I don't.
What I did was wrong.
[crying] It was so wrong.
[Michael] When you finally realize how much harm you've done,
it's a crushing realization.
It's a devastating feeling.
But apology only goes so far.
You really can't go back and give people back those years
that they wasted trying to be ex-gay.
All you can do is, from this point forward,
speak out against it, and speak out strongly against it.
[interviewer] Talk directly to the camera.
I want you to talk to your former colleagues
about what they're still doing with this type of work.
Well, I used to be a true believer, just like you did.
I mean, I absolutely thought that what we were doing was right,
but all it does is crush souls.
It crushes peoples' lives.
I can't stand that I was a part of it,
and I would hope that you would have the empathy and compassion
to see that all it does is damage.
-[birds chirping] -[hopeful piano music playing]
[music continues]
[pastor whispers] Okay, take a deep breath.
We've come together in the presence of God to witness
and bless the joining together
of Amanda and Julie in holy matrimony.
[Julie] I suffered trauma,
and it definitely resulted in extreme forms of self-hatred,
but I survived.
I'm really happy, and I found somebody that I love so much.
And we're doing well, but not everybody is.
Ex-gay leaders are doing what they believe is the best thing for all of us.
The problem is that they think whole and healthy means
trying to fit ourselves into something we can't be.
I wish that they would listen to us
and believe us when we say
that we really are so much healthier and happier
now that we're no longer a part of that.
[pastor] God created you for communion with one another.
And the highest expression of this communion will be your marriage.
You may kiss your bride.
-[applauding, whooping] -[pastor laughs]
[director] Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thanks, Julie.
[indistinct chattering]
As long as homophobia exists in this world,
some version of Exodus will emerge.
Because it's not the organization,
and it's not even the methods that they use.
It's the underlying belief
that there is something intrinsically disordered
and change-worthy about being gay.
As long as that continues to exist,
there will be some form of this.
[dramatic music playing]