1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:32,741 How are you, uncle? 4 00:00:32,981 --> 00:00:34,301 How are you? 5 00:00:35,875 --> 00:00:39,196 Do you remember the days when you were here with us? 6 00:00:43,071 --> 00:00:45,592 Do you remember when we used to go to the seaside? 7 00:00:46,155 --> 00:00:48,475 And when I'd try to leave the house with you 8 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:49,540 you'd say, "No way!" 9 00:00:49,635 --> 00:00:52,874 I'd say, "Uncle, uncle, can you take me with you?" 10 00:00:52,899 --> 00:00:54,219 Do you remember that? 11 00:00:58,117 --> 00:00:59,517 Do you remember? 12 00:01:00,821 --> 00:01:02,141 Do you remember that? 13 00:01:02,484 --> 00:01:03,748 - Allahu akbar. 14 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:31,021 - Muammar Gaddafi has been killed. 15 00:01:31,346 --> 00:01:33,175 Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton 16 00:01:33,199 --> 00:01:35,238 got the news in Kabul this morning. 17 00:01:35,340 --> 00:01:36,661 Wow! 18 00:01:37,180 --> 00:01:39,972 We came, we saw, he died. 19 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:45,021 - Ashur Shamis is a Libyan journalist that 20 00:01:45,045 --> 00:01:47,196 has been in exile in London for 40 years. 21 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:48,996 What is the mood in Libya this morning? 22 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:50,555 - The mood is jubilant. 23 00:01:50,579 --> 00:01:55,356 People who have achieved the aims of the revolution. 24 00:01:55,380 --> 00:02:00,533 It is not a NATO operation that brought about the end of Gaddafi 25 00:02:00,557 --> 00:02:02,039 it is the Libyan peoples 26 00:02:02,063 --> 00:02:04,544 and young people who fought 27 00:02:04,568 --> 00:02:09,192 and it is also a moment of contemplation as well. 28 00:02:17,338 --> 00:02:19,637 - My dad opposed Gaddafi for most of his life. 29 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,855 And for the 40 years he was in exile in England, 30 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:29,596 it felt like killing Gaddafi was more important to him 31 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:30,789 than living with us. 32 00:02:33,269 --> 00:02:35,669 So when the chance came for him to go back home, 33 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,127 he took it. 34 00:02:39,007 --> 00:02:42,528 A lifetime's dream had now become reality. 35 00:02:44,937 --> 00:02:47,377 The Libyan had become an Englishman 36 00:02:48,721 --> 00:02:52,240 with an exile's fantasy of home and freedom. 37 00:03:20,108 --> 00:03:21,497 Blood is merged, 38 00:03:21,521 --> 00:03:22,972 a precarious mix. 39 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:27,680 Neither black nor white. Maybe "other" I tick. 40 00:03:29,769 --> 00:03:32,769 Far detached from a sun and a sand, 41 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:34,741 for all I know is 42 00:03:34,900 --> 00:03:37,132 England. 43 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:42,273 Off to the prep and a pothole we miss 44 00:03:43,217 --> 00:03:45,098 sometimes in the centre, 45 00:03:45,122 --> 00:03:46,643 sometimes in the sticks. 46 00:03:48,481 --> 00:03:50,321 Born 'n' bred, I never knew care. 47 00:03:51,704 --> 00:03:53,756 As long as hometime came 48 00:03:53,780 --> 00:03:55,660 with my pals im'a share. 49 00:04:15,844 --> 00:04:18,844 Baba grew up in a mountainous town south of Tripoli. 50 00:04:19,820 --> 00:04:22,642 It was the centre of Libyan resistance 51 00:04:22,666 --> 00:04:25,147 against the Italian colonisers. 52 00:04:27,140 --> 00:04:28,661 I grew up in Croydon 53 00:04:29,618 --> 00:04:31,574 a nice leafy London suburb. 54 00:04:34,217 --> 00:04:37,417 While he was in Libya helping to build the new country, 55 00:04:37,940 --> 00:04:40,459 I took the chance to explore his study. 56 00:04:41,420 --> 00:04:43,699 A place I had no access to as a child. 57 00:04:45,020 --> 00:04:48,939 I was free to scan the shelves and search the drawers. 58 00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:57,300 How are you uncle Ashur? 59 00:04:57,928 --> 00:05:00,168 How’s Abdullah? How’s Shamela? 60 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:03,259 - Tell him to give Abdullah some kisses from us. 61 00:05:03,579 --> 00:05:05,379 We thought we’d send you a tape. 62 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:10,340 Some words from your mother, the kids, your sister. 63 00:05:11,148 --> 00:05:14,708 So you won't miss our voices. 64 00:05:16,699 --> 00:05:20,019 - I’m waiting hour by hour and 65 00:05:20,060 --> 00:05:24,539 minute by minute for you to come home. 66 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:30,779 Hey uncle come and have a cup of tea with us here. 67 00:05:32,107 --> 00:05:35,227 May God protect you and give you contentment. 68 00:05:36,873 --> 00:05:38,393 I've been waiting for you. 69 00:05:38,418 --> 00:05:40,819 I thought you would come back to me. 70 00:05:46,785 --> 00:05:48,555 - I'm joined now by a spokesman from the 71 00:05:48,579 --> 00:05:50,435 National Front for the Salvation of Libya 72 00:05:50,459 --> 00:05:53,379 who understandably wishes to remain anonymous. 73 00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:59,181 - Some of the earliest memories I have of my father 74 00:05:59,205 --> 00:06:01,390 are of him on the evening news. 75 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:04,876 - The opposition living outside Libya 76 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:06,220 against the Gaddafi regime. 77 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:09,994 As I said the earlier, it will be difficult to identify these 78 00:06:10,211 --> 00:06:12,293 and there are actually active groups 79 00:06:12,317 --> 00:06:14,076 and individuals inside Libya. 80 00:06:14,579 --> 00:06:16,761 These people might turn against each other 81 00:06:16,785 --> 00:06:19,425 because there is very little love lost between them. 82 00:06:19,790 --> 00:06:23,351 All Libyans who are opposed to the Gaddafi regime 83 00:06:23,375 --> 00:06:24,776 are in some sort of danger. 84 00:07:28,732 --> 00:07:30,931 I’ll tell you a joke... 85 00:07:31,260 --> 00:07:33,060 this one guy 86 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:35,660 bought himself some new shoes 87 00:07:35,685 --> 00:07:37,708 and went to the mosque. 88 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:40,220 He put his shoes outside and went to pray 89 00:07:40,245 --> 00:07:43,404 then he came out and found his shoes had been stolen. 90 00:07:43,550 --> 00:07:46,349 "Bring back my shoes or I’ll do what my father did!" 91 00:07:46,540 --> 00:07:50,100 Everyone got scared, thinking he’d do something big. 92 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,461 Then someone asked him, "What did your father do?" 93 00:07:56,820 --> 00:07:58,994 "He went home barefoot." 94 00:08:11,940 --> 00:08:13,620 On this glorious night 95 00:08:14,490 --> 00:08:19,850 truth had triumphed over the people's enemies! 96 00:09:01,829 --> 00:09:03,030 - Khalid? 97 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:07,711 I need the Arabic coffee. 98 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:10,212 In the middle cupboard. 99 00:09:13,453 --> 00:09:15,956 - Is there anything you think I should ask Baba 100 00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:17,381 about this period in Libya 101 00:09:17,405 --> 00:09:19,405 or afterwards? 102 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:23,820 You were saying he's in some desperation. 103 00:09:26,308 --> 00:09:28,029 He just... 104 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:30,276 Before, I used to say 105 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:33,116 "Now what's happening in Libya, what's happening?" 106 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:34,916 And he'd give me a little run down. 107 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:36,834 Now when I say, "What's happening in Libya?" 108 00:09:36,858 --> 00:09:40,000 He says, "There's no Libya, now stop asking." 109 00:09:40,024 --> 00:09:44,105 Because there's nothing to talk about. 110 00:10:14,513 --> 00:10:18,113 Yes, um, y'know... 111 00:10:18,278 --> 00:10:21,879 A person who knows me in the security service 112 00:10:21,903 --> 00:10:26,812 got this file and brought it to me 113 00:10:26,836 --> 00:10:30,796 when I was working in Libya in 2012. 114 00:10:31,481 --> 00:10:35,836 In the name of A'Daal, Ashur Abdullah Shamis. 115 00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:38,620 "A'Daal" means the stray dog. 116 00:10:38,801 --> 00:10:40,722 Officially, this is official. 117 00:10:40,746 --> 00:10:43,185 This file has a number of documents. 118 00:10:44,688 --> 00:10:46,705 They're all related to me. 119 00:10:46,729 --> 00:10:51,318 That we conducted a lot of activity against Libya generally 120 00:10:51,342 --> 00:10:55,383 and that we should be held to trial. 121 00:10:57,580 --> 00:11:03,076 And of course when you come to the report by Musa Kousa himself 122 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,581 the head of Libyan external security, 123 00:11:05,605 --> 00:11:07,686 the most feared man in Libya, 124 00:11:07,787 --> 00:11:12,386 you don't just laugh, you go "gaga". 125 00:11:12,740 --> 00:11:18,299 It's about five pages, full of inaccuracies and things. 126 00:11:19,231 --> 00:11:24,673 I got hold of chemical and germ weapons. 127 00:11:24,697 --> 00:11:26,337 - Really? - Yes. 128 00:11:26,860 --> 00:11:28,033 - And, did you? 129 00:11:29,420 --> 00:11:30,900 This is ridiculous. 130 00:11:32,241 --> 00:11:33,881 Now this is very funny. 131 00:11:34,060 --> 00:11:39,540 Ashur Shamis gives lessons in politics and Islamic studies 132 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:43,790 to a group of heretics about Jihad. And so on. 133 00:11:43,970 --> 00:11:47,490 In a special place for training 134 00:11:47,741 --> 00:11:50,149 in Manchester United city. 135 00:11:55,419 --> 00:11:58,460 The city of Manchester United. 136 00:11:59,779 --> 00:12:01,940 In London. 137 00:12:02,060 --> 00:12:03,787 - He doesn't mention your kids? 138 00:12:03,980 --> 00:12:06,141 No, no. They don't mention my kids. 139 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:11,620 - Tell me how did the dream start and why? 140 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,821 - From the beginning we opposed Gaddafi's revolution. 141 00:12:16,845 --> 00:12:20,245 It's a copycat of Nasser's revolution 142 00:12:20,676 --> 00:12:22,262 and we were against Nasser's revolution. 143 00:12:22,286 --> 00:12:23,286 - I see. 144 00:12:24,032 --> 00:12:28,711 - We know that a military regime will always turn out nasty. 145 00:12:34,571 --> 00:12:38,276 We used to publish a magazine from here in Arabic 146 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:40,940 called Al-Ghuraba, The Exiles, 147 00:12:41,136 --> 00:12:43,817 criticising some of Gaddafi's activities. 148 00:12:44,045 --> 00:12:47,847 And I was told, "Don't come back your name is on the list." 149 00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:55,262 I mean Gaddafi put in prison 150 00:12:55,286 --> 00:12:58,766 people who were nationalists, communists, liberals. 151 00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:03,259 They were all put in prison together in 1973. 152 00:13:04,879 --> 00:13:07,798 He called them sick people. 153 00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:12,232 They are taken to these prisons to be treated. 154 00:13:21,504 --> 00:13:23,704 He was absolutely radical 155 00:13:23,728 --> 00:13:25,556 you know, for the sake of radicalism. 156 00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:29,820 His sole objective was power, was control of Libya. 157 00:13:31,862 --> 00:13:34,184 - But then, politically - 158 00:13:34,208 --> 00:13:37,809 politically you were all Ikhwanis (Muslim Brotherhood)? 159 00:13:37,833 --> 00:13:39,793 - Yes, I was with the Ikhwan. 160 00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:45,980 - So you came from an Ikhwani Islamist background. 161 00:13:46,121 --> 00:13:47,842 But not Socialist, not Nationalist? 162 00:13:47,866 --> 00:13:48,997 - Definitely. 163 00:13:49,021 --> 00:13:51,592 - And then became Nationalist Islamist agenda? 164 00:13:51,616 --> 00:13:52,616 - Exactly. 165 00:13:52,719 --> 00:13:55,274 - But not Ikhwani at all now? - No, not Ikhwani. 166 00:13:55,298 --> 00:13:56,763 - So what did you then expect 167 00:13:56,787 --> 00:13:58,778 to implement after taking Gaddafi down? 168 00:13:59,079 --> 00:14:02,160 We imagined a society in Libya 169 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:06,956 that would have freedom of expression, justice 170 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:09,740 and look forward to development of society. 171 00:14:09,857 --> 00:14:13,936 You know, materially, economically, socially 172 00:14:14,276 --> 00:14:17,716 and of course religiously, 173 00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:19,916 that was the objective in the first place. 174 00:14:19,940 --> 00:14:24,621 And the Muslim society to us is a varied society. 175 00:14:34,152 --> 00:14:36,236 - The first open threat from Colonel Gaddafi 176 00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:37,579 came in February 1980. 177 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,939 "All opponents of the government currently living abroad 178 00:14:41,963 --> 00:14:42,994 should make arrangements 179 00:14:43,018 --> 00:14:45,824 to return to Libya by June the 11th 1980 180 00:14:45,999 --> 00:14:47,880 or face physical liquidation." 181 00:14:57,380 --> 00:15:00,982 Colonel Gaddafi referred to opponents abroad as "Stray Dogs" 182 00:15:01,006 --> 00:15:02,206 who would be liquidated. 183 00:15:02,758 --> 00:15:04,639 "The Libyan Arab people," he said 184 00:15:04,663 --> 00:15:06,544 "will meet their full responsibility 185 00:15:06,568 --> 00:15:08,916 of liquidating escaped agents of America. 186 00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:11,100 And now it must pursue the rest abroad." 187 00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:16,255 Another bomb is discovered in London at an Arab restaurant. 188 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:18,360 As the foreign office demands assurances 189 00:15:18,648 --> 00:15:20,528 that Libya stops those responsible 190 00:15:20,779 --> 00:15:22,698 from fighting it out on Britain's streets. 191 00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:25,021 In April 1980, a Libyan journalist 192 00:15:25,045 --> 00:15:27,058 Mustapha Ramadan was shot dead 193 00:15:27,082 --> 00:15:29,283 outside the mosque in Regent's Park London. 194 00:15:29,820 --> 00:15:32,100 A few days later, a dissident Libyan lawyer 195 00:15:32,302 --> 00:15:35,935 Mahmoud Nafa was shot dead in his offices in Kensington. 196 00:15:36,346 --> 00:15:38,499 Libyans arrested for the killings admitted 197 00:15:38,523 --> 00:15:40,563 they were part of a six man death squad 198 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:42,967 sent to Britain for those and other murders. 199 00:15:42,991 --> 00:15:45,553 Musa Kousa was expelled from Great Britain 200 00:15:45,577 --> 00:15:46,996 for organising and approving 201 00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:49,421 the assassinations of Libyan exiles. 202 00:15:49,606 --> 00:15:52,087 And that two more victims had been selected. 203 00:15:52,111 --> 00:15:55,310 Kousa reportedly said, "I approve of this." 204 00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:01,340 - I was very close to Ramadan, Muhammad Mustapha Ramadan. 205 00:16:01,364 --> 00:16:02,900 We were friends from Libya. 206 00:16:05,059 --> 00:16:08,836 We used to be together every day or every other day. 207 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,261 And the people who arranged the killing, 208 00:16:11,285 --> 00:16:13,165 basically Musa Kousa, 209 00:16:13,299 --> 00:16:15,420 they also had me in their sights. 210 00:16:15,796 --> 00:16:18,476 And in fact they were looking for two people at the mosque 211 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:19,876 they might find two people 212 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:22,139 so I was told by the security here, 213 00:16:22,409 --> 00:16:24,915 "You can't work in your usual place." 214 00:16:24,939 --> 00:16:27,401 In other words, "You have to go underground." 215 00:16:28,003 --> 00:16:30,243 And that's exactly what I did. 216 00:16:33,979 --> 00:16:38,020 MI5 and Scotland Yard really were sympathetic to us. 217 00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:40,076 Sometimes we did seek their help, 218 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:41,516 but they never did like the Arabs. 219 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:44,063 They never gave us passports or anything like that. 220 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:54,375 - And then Jehad was born. 221 00:16:55,059 --> 00:16:56,102 - Yes. 222 00:16:56,380 --> 00:17:01,579 Mummy was pregnant with Jehad and he was coming any time. 223 00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:06,876 So I decided after two weeks to come to this house, 224 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:13,579 and a few days later I attended Jehad's birth here in the house. 225 00:17:15,264 --> 00:17:19,185 We had a different name for him, we had the name Harith. 226 00:17:20,019 --> 00:17:21,421 Then we thought, Harith? 227 00:17:21,445 --> 00:17:24,286 If we use Harith in English it will become Harry. 228 00:17:24,705 --> 00:17:25,705 You know... 229 00:17:26,374 --> 00:17:29,774 I said, well, the whole relationship 230 00:17:29,894 --> 00:17:33,814 between us and Gaddafi has now exploded 231 00:17:33,964 --> 00:17:36,285 and we are in a state of jehad 232 00:17:36,420 --> 00:17:39,356 against Gaddafi and the Gaddafi regime 233 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:41,939 why don't you call him Jehad? 234 00:17:55,259 --> 00:17:57,420 Brother viewers 235 00:17:57,499 --> 00:17:59,939 peace be upon you and God's mercy. 236 00:18:00,699 --> 00:18:05,219 Once again, welcome Dr. Magharief 237 00:18:05,284 --> 00:18:09,887 we hope he can first tell us first about how 238 00:18:09,912 --> 00:18:11,918 the National Front for the Salvation of Libya 239 00:18:13,046 --> 00:18:16,006 came to be founded, where it is based 240 00:18:16,179 --> 00:18:19,101 and the reason for the timing of its announcement. 241 00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:26,499 - The person behind the whole idea is Dr. Magharief. 242 00:18:27,979 --> 00:18:30,436 He was ambassador in India. He just said, 243 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:32,914 "I resigned from the regime 244 00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:36,171 and I am joining the opposition." 245 00:18:37,045 --> 00:18:39,404 - He who loves our homeland Libya 246 00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:41,699 loves every spring of water in it 247 00:18:43,499 --> 00:18:45,340 and every plant 248 00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:47,939 and every particle of its beloved land... 249 00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:52,499 - We grew very fast. Other countries joined, like Algeria, 250 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:55,780 Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and Iraq. 251 00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:57,303 - They were all against Gaddafi? 252 00:18:57,327 --> 00:19:00,088 - Yes, at that time there was a very strong wave of 253 00:19:00,112 --> 00:19:03,472 opposition to Gaddafi, even from Arab regimes. 254 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:05,542 We met the top politicians, 255 00:19:07,660 --> 00:19:09,751 "You can come, you can have training camps." 256 00:19:09,775 --> 00:19:11,814 They gave us passports right away 257 00:19:11,941 --> 00:19:14,381 there was movement, there was dynamism. 258 00:19:32,739 --> 00:19:36,675 This is the material, notes and minutes of meetings 259 00:19:36,699 --> 00:19:39,340 1980 and in '81. 260 00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:41,060 This, by the way, 261 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:43,636 is an old suitcase which I used 262 00:19:43,660 --> 00:19:46,310 to use a lot when I used to travel 263 00:19:46,451 --> 00:19:51,989 to Morocco, to Egypt, and to the United States. 264 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:55,196 - American Tourister. - American Tourister, yes. 265 00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:56,581 - What's the code? 266 00:19:57,038 --> 00:19:58,198 007? 267 00:19:58,340 --> 00:19:59,340 - No. 268 00:20:03,179 --> 00:20:04,539 Top secret. 269 00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:08,624 All about the military activities we used to do. 270 00:20:11,660 --> 00:20:15,100 "The battle inside When and How." 271 00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:22,195 This is a code for names we gave ourselves. 272 00:20:22,219 --> 00:20:24,260 If you take the number from the top 273 00:20:24,284 --> 00:20:26,764 and you go from the bottom or something. 274 00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:30,675 8 and E... Elaaina. 275 00:20:30,699 --> 00:20:38,276 So every word has got a special... special code. 276 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:40,076 - What was your code name? - I don’t know. 277 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,218 - You don't remember? - No. 278 00:20:41,242 --> 00:20:45,123 My name was Abu Abdullah. 279 00:20:45,147 --> 00:20:46,915 As my name. 280 00:20:46,939 --> 00:20:48,156 And also 281 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:51,927 I had a number of passports which I used to use. 282 00:20:55,699 --> 00:21:00,060 This is my Libyan passport from the Kingdom of Libya. 283 00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:02,045 Tunis. 284 00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:05,259 Shams El Din was my pseudonym. 285 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,220 Moroccan passport. 286 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:10,939 Abed Abdella. 287 00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:15,899 Now Sudan. 288 00:21:16,259 --> 00:21:18,140 Shams El Din Mohamed Ibrahim. 289 00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:23,235 It's a diplomatic passport. 290 00:21:23,259 --> 00:21:24,629 - Is it still valid? 291 00:21:37,709 --> 00:21:42,149 She means, "Ashur is coming to see us on an aeroplane." 292 00:21:43,019 --> 00:21:46,420 Tell him to reply to this tape. 293 00:21:46,499 --> 00:21:51,674 - Yeah! Tell him to reply to this tape! 294 00:22:16,885 --> 00:22:18,924 Joining us now is a London based member 295 00:22:18,948 --> 00:22:21,796 of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya, 296 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:25,364 the chief opposition group to Colonel Gaddafi's regime. 297 00:22:25,388 --> 00:22:30,068 Have you gone in danger or at least in fear for your own life? 298 00:22:30,405 --> 00:22:34,141 Well all Libyans who are opposed to the Gaddafi regime 299 00:22:34,165 --> 00:22:35,805 are in some sort of danger, 300 00:22:35,829 --> 00:22:38,549 whether in this country or in other European countries. 301 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:52,621 - And this? - Better not, better not. 302 00:22:52,645 --> 00:22:53,925 - Let's see this. 303 00:22:54,052 --> 00:22:56,516 Was this the kind of thing you were looking to buy? 304 00:22:56,540 --> 00:22:59,059 - Things like that, yes. 305 00:22:59,259 --> 00:23:00,780 - And did you buy these? 306 00:23:00,804 --> 00:23:02,163 - I don't remember really. 307 00:23:02,739 --> 00:23:06,539 This is a very special weapon for all special uses. 308 00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:08,414 - It's like a Rambo gun. 309 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:10,381 - Um. 310 00:23:10,580 --> 00:23:12,501 - You can shoot little rockets. 311 00:23:12,525 --> 00:23:14,124 - And it's a shotgun. - Yes. 312 00:23:14,779 --> 00:23:17,796 - Did you handle one of these? - No, I don't remember. 313 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:19,675 I handled a Kalashnikov. 314 00:23:19,699 --> 00:23:21,300 What's that? 315 00:23:21,779 --> 00:23:23,596 - More guns? 316 00:23:23,620 --> 00:23:25,060 What are these? 317 00:23:26,979 --> 00:23:29,179 These are pistols with silencers. 318 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,019 - They don't belong to me necessarily. 319 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,236 So the intention from the beginning was to 320 00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:43,300 overthrow by military means? 321 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:47,116 Not really overthrow. 322 00:23:47,140 --> 00:23:48,820 Okay, that is a possibility, but 323 00:23:49,779 --> 00:23:51,820 to use force 324 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:56,796 in whichever way possible against Gaddafi and his-- 325 00:23:56,820 --> 00:23:59,836 - By any means necessary? - By any means necessary. 326 00:23:59,860 --> 00:24:03,939 Because he dared to come out and... 327 00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:05,473 and kill people. 328 00:24:06,220 --> 00:24:09,260 So there's no more an excuse 329 00:24:09,795 --> 00:24:12,236 for us not to use the same method 330 00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:14,020 in order to frighten his people. 331 00:24:14,219 --> 00:24:18,876 - Yourself, you were ready to go with a gun 332 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:20,396 and shoot people? 333 00:24:20,420 --> 00:24:23,020 - Yes of course, I was trained militarily, 334 00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:27,003 I was trained how to handle the weapons, how to shoot and so on. 335 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:29,556 But I didn't really go with the military 336 00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:34,074 because I had other responsibilities in the Front. 337 00:24:34,098 --> 00:24:39,219 I was in charge of the media here in this country 338 00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:43,396 and then the contacts with Libyans 339 00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:47,836 in the UK, Libyans in Europe Libyans inside Libya, because 340 00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:51,556 people were still coming out and back to Libya 341 00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:55,836 and these were very valuable assets to us. 342 00:24:55,860 --> 00:24:59,300 We thought that we will galvanise Libyans abroad 343 00:24:59,436 --> 00:25:03,596 and that will in turn galvanise the Libyans inside the country. 344 00:25:03,620 --> 00:25:05,116 - Which is kind of what happened. 345 00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:07,979 - Yeah. It took much longer, much longer. 346 00:25:08,779 --> 00:25:10,536 - Does the prospect of assassination 347 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,364 worry you at all or do you 348 00:25:13,068 --> 00:25:14,636 ignore that concern? 349 00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:15,675 - Pardon? 350 00:25:15,699 --> 00:25:20,380 - Does the possibility of an attack on you 351 00:25:21,019 --> 00:25:24,300 by maybe people here, or people outside 352 00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:26,420 does that worry you? 353 00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:29,356 No, I'm not a friend. 354 00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:31,876 I am not afraid, sorry. 355 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,019 I am not afraid about such... 356 00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:53,700 - The Algerians said, "We will provide you with logistics." 357 00:25:53,724 --> 00:25:55,900 And we arranged for a lot of people 358 00:25:55,924 --> 00:25:58,325 to move for military activities. 359 00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:20,900 We knew there was going to be blood, 360 00:26:20,924 --> 00:26:22,645 we knew there will be fighting, 361 00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:28,641 there will be a lot of unpleasant things. 362 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,420 In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most Beneficent. 363 00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:44,619 Praise be upon God. 364 00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:48,059 He who humiliates oppressors and subdues tyrants 365 00:26:48,415 --> 00:26:51,976 in order to overthrow the Gaddafi regime 366 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:54,340 one of the most glorious aspects of which 367 00:26:54,365 --> 00:26:59,472 was the operation against Bab Al-Aziziyah camp 368 00:26:59,780 --> 00:27:03,401 which was glorious, daring and eternal. 369 00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:07,201 On this historic and blessed day. 370 00:27:09,499 --> 00:27:11,219 Long live Libya! 371 00:27:11,780 --> 00:27:13,380 Long live Libya! 372 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:15,699 Long live Libya! 373 00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:21,261 - So would you say you were training 374 00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:22,704 freedom fighters or terrorists? 375 00:27:25,204 --> 00:27:28,005 - We were training an army for Libya, 376 00:27:28,251 --> 00:27:32,596 more than freedom fighters, more than anything else. 377 00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:51,036 - At the top of Colonel Gaddafi's hit-list must be 378 00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:52,235 the group who attacked 379 00:27:52,259 --> 00:27:53,889 his military headquarters yesterday. 380 00:27:53,913 --> 00:27:56,302 The National Front for the Salvation of Libya. 381 00:27:56,326 --> 00:27:59,327 About 30 men stormed the barracks, 15 were killed. 382 00:27:59,351 --> 00:28:00,791 Virtually a suicide mission. 383 00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,539 But their leader has threatened more such attacks. 384 00:28:03,860 --> 00:28:06,230 - I'm sure that if Gaddafi remains in power, 385 00:28:07,739 --> 00:28:10,155 innocent people, thousands of them, 386 00:28:10,179 --> 00:28:11,955 will lose their lives. 387 00:28:11,979 --> 00:28:13,448 - Is it at all on your conscience 388 00:28:13,472 --> 00:28:14,821 that it's your activities 389 00:28:14,845 --> 00:28:17,644 that are enabling him to turn his attention to them? 390 00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:19,556 - No, I think, no. 391 00:28:19,580 --> 00:28:21,356 It is not our intention. 392 00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:22,836 If Gaddafi does this 393 00:28:22,860 --> 00:28:26,581 it will be his own mistake and his own deed. 394 00:28:27,434 --> 00:28:28,836 - The importance of the death of this man 395 00:28:28,860 --> 00:28:31,036 shot down on the Libyan border with Tunisia on Sunday 396 00:28:31,060 --> 00:28:32,116 is now clear. 397 00:28:32,140 --> 00:28:33,488 He was a senior member of The National 398 00:28:33,512 --> 00:28:35,076 Front for the Salvation of Libya 399 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:36,260 and had been sent to Libya 400 00:28:36,284 --> 00:28:38,163 to mastermind yesterday's attempted coup. 401 00:28:38,532 --> 00:28:40,955 The Libyans claim he was backed by the British government 402 00:28:40,979 --> 00:28:43,276 and showed off his passport with its British visa. 403 00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,820 - His name is Ahmed Ibrahim Ahwas. 404 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:48,836 He was in Libya to organise 405 00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:52,861 various military activities in order to destabilise the regime. 406 00:28:57,179 --> 00:28:59,540 - After the attempted coup, 407 00:28:59,564 --> 00:29:04,068 Gaddafi set up a super-prison complex just outside Tripoli. 408 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:06,584 Abu Salim prison. 409 00:29:14,860 --> 00:29:18,380 In the apartment I met Hamad Bourniyah 410 00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:22,500 then last February Al-Sadiq Al-Shuwaihidi. 411 00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:25,180 I went with him the next day and saw 412 00:29:25,205 --> 00:29:27,178 Salim Al-Hassi and Osama Shallouf, 413 00:29:27,203 --> 00:29:30,243 whom I met for the first time and hadn't known before. 414 00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,259 I never heard from him again after that. 415 00:29:36,699 --> 00:29:43,580 I joined the runaway group of the Muslim Brotherhood. 416 00:29:45,806 --> 00:29:47,845 - List the aspects of your crime. 417 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:51,710 Joining the stray dogs and the Muslim Brotherhood. 418 00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:52,811 This is a crime. 419 00:29:52,835 --> 00:29:54,900 And not reporting this is also a crime. 420 00:29:55,621 --> 00:29:57,053 - So you are a criminal? 421 00:29:57,078 --> 00:29:58,132 Yes, a criminal. 422 00:29:58,156 --> 00:29:59,461 Entryist. 423 00:29:59,565 --> 00:30:01,325 Traitor. 424 00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:05,099 - You are nothing but infiltrators. 425 00:30:05,198 --> 00:30:07,117 Do you know what infiltrators are? 426 00:30:07,780 --> 00:30:08,940 - Yes. 427 00:30:12,004 --> 00:30:14,844 The defendant Mohammad Seid Ali Al-Shabibani 428 00:30:14,979 --> 00:30:16,380 admitted the following. 429 00:30:16,405 --> 00:30:19,925 Of his membership to what he calls 430 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:21,739 the Muslim Brotherhood traitors. 431 00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:25,300 He was fully aware of the plot that the stray dog deviants 432 00:30:25,325 --> 00:30:28,045 intended to carry out in the State of the Masses. 433 00:30:28,179 --> 00:30:31,060 The Congress decided on the need to eliminate the traitors 434 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,060 the saboteurs and stray dogs both domestic and abroad. 435 00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:41,380 My name is Sadiq Hamed Shwehdi. 436 00:30:41,459 --> 00:30:44,459 I was studying in America. 437 00:30:45,776 --> 00:30:49,418 I joined the stray dogs in America in 1981. 438 00:30:51,219 --> 00:30:54,860 No mercy for traitors, hang them in the squares. 439 00:31:49,557 --> 00:31:51,120 - I was shattered. 440 00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:55,180 It was really a very very sad occasion. 441 00:32:00,539 --> 00:32:02,193 I never recovered from it. 442 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:35,619 - What did you think would have happened if 443 00:32:35,740 --> 00:32:38,099 maybe you would have been killed? 444 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:40,436 - At that time I never thought about it. 445 00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:42,525 - I'm just trying to understand how it would be 446 00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:45,270 with a family in the house planning these things. 447 00:32:45,294 --> 00:32:48,534 I mean, while we were in the other room watching Rambo 448 00:32:48,699 --> 00:32:50,860 you guys were planning Rambo. 449 00:32:52,420 --> 00:32:54,180 - You know, your lives, 450 00:32:54,204 --> 00:32:56,125 the children's and the family's lives 451 00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:58,230 have never been disrupted. 452 00:32:58,797 --> 00:33:01,596 You went to school you went to your friends 453 00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:04,774 you moved in and out of the house normally. 454 00:33:04,798 --> 00:33:06,238 I think we told you 455 00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:08,740 not to say you're Libyan or something like that 456 00:33:08,764 --> 00:33:11,284 or, "Don't talk about what your father does" and so on. 457 00:33:11,404 --> 00:33:15,203 That's it. But your life went on normally. 458 00:33:16,460 --> 00:33:19,916 You think that was part of your choice not to tell us? 459 00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:23,021 - It was. Because we always had the feeling that 460 00:33:23,045 --> 00:33:25,884 it was going to be over in a few months time. 461 00:33:26,781 --> 00:33:33,500 Every time we go on a different programme 462 00:33:33,894 --> 00:33:38,215 we think that this programme will lead us to Libya. 463 00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:43,259 From day one, you know 464 00:33:44,046 --> 00:33:46,446 we always thought that it's a matter of months 465 00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:48,190 and then we will be in Libya 466 00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:51,619 and the years went by and nothing happened. 467 00:34:04,699 --> 00:34:09,979 All the family in Libya, they're all fine and send their regards. 468 00:34:10,060 --> 00:34:12,060 Your sister and her kids are fine. 469 00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:14,979 We just saw all the Gharyan family at Mabrouka’s wedding. 470 00:34:15,004 --> 00:34:17,484 They’re all fine and are asking about you. 471 00:34:17,611 --> 00:34:19,131 I've missed my boy very much. 472 00:34:19,220 --> 00:34:21,499 - Are you afraid we'll lose your boy over there? 473 00:34:21,579 --> 00:34:24,260 - What loss is there over there? 474 00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:26,618 What do you mean the loss over there? 475 00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:31,860 All the Libyans are off to Britain 476 00:34:31,885 --> 00:34:33,646 they're all becoming Londoners. 477 00:34:33,671 --> 00:34:37,510 So hopefully you won't miss Libyans any more. 478 00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:40,420 God willing you'll be in Libya next year. 479 00:34:40,499 --> 00:34:42,820 I hope! 480 00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:46,220 Khalid. 481 00:34:49,579 --> 00:34:50,939 Give me a cup. 482 00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:52,740 The foam comes up 483 00:34:53,979 --> 00:34:56,396 and when you put this coffee in the cup 484 00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:58,380 the foam should sit on the top. 485 00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:10,220 It's still a bit bitter. 486 00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:15,539 - Did you know much about what Baba was up to in those days? 487 00:35:16,019 --> 00:35:20,475 - I knew very little then but I knew there was a little talk, 488 00:35:20,499 --> 00:35:22,515 "They are going in, they are going in, 489 00:35:22,539 --> 00:35:23,915 is it ready, is it time?" 490 00:35:23,939 --> 00:35:26,781 But in Arabic. And I'd ask him, "What's happening?" 491 00:35:26,805 --> 00:35:29,126 And he'd say just a little bit but not much. 492 00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:30,992 - How was he, was he excited about it? 493 00:35:31,016 --> 00:35:33,777 - Yes, he was young excited, he was positive. 494 00:35:33,979 --> 00:35:36,019 It must have been 495 00:35:36,539 --> 00:35:37,700 exciting. 496 00:35:50,380 --> 00:35:52,876 Baba once had to be escorted 497 00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:56,180 and he had to change his clothes and go in another car. 498 00:35:56,291 --> 00:35:57,571 Like a spy! 499 00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:00,300 That's what he told me, I don't know. 500 00:36:01,318 --> 00:36:04,158 That's why he's so tired now, he's asleep. 501 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,115 - What would you have done if Baba was killed? 502 00:36:09,139 --> 00:36:12,115 No, no... 503 00:36:12,139 --> 00:36:14,540 I knew Baba is doing something 504 00:36:14,564 --> 00:36:17,484 and if he thinks it's the right thing 505 00:36:17,619 --> 00:36:20,236 who am I to tell him it's not right? 506 00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:22,220 - You're the mother of his children. 507 00:36:22,495 --> 00:36:24,055 Well he knows what he is doing. 508 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:28,836 During those days, the Front days 509 00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:31,019 where was he getting his money from? 510 00:36:32,420 --> 00:36:34,100 - He wasn't not working-- 511 00:36:34,124 --> 00:36:36,460 - But who was funding the Front? You don't know? 512 00:36:36,484 --> 00:36:39,845 - Various people. That's very complicated, don't ask me. 513 00:36:39,979 --> 00:36:41,900 Was it undercover money? 514 00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:44,539 Do you think it was blood money? 515 00:36:45,139 --> 00:36:47,115 No, what blood money? 516 00:36:47,139 --> 00:36:51,180 Well you know at some point they were buying arms to arm an army? 517 00:36:52,619 --> 00:36:56,619 That was their story, I have nothing to do with it. 518 00:36:58,139 --> 00:37:00,356 You mean blood money, killed people? 519 00:37:00,380 --> 00:37:01,580 Well he could have. 520 00:37:01,604 --> 00:37:04,564 No, Baba was not involved in that. 521 00:37:04,936 --> 00:37:06,940 - They were buying arms to arm an army. 522 00:37:06,964 --> 00:37:09,004 - Yeah, so? 523 00:37:09,194 --> 00:37:10,555 - He was an arms dealer. 524 00:37:10,579 --> 00:37:12,221 - He was not an arms dealer. 525 00:37:12,245 --> 00:37:15,205 Do you remember when I found that bulletproof vest? 526 00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:18,900 That was because they were protecting him 527 00:37:20,139 --> 00:37:22,019 the vest was for his protection. 528 00:37:23,019 --> 00:37:26,035 Not because he was an arms dealer, don't be stupid. 529 00:37:26,059 --> 00:37:27,115 And those knives? 530 00:37:27,139 --> 00:37:29,019 Shut up! 531 00:37:31,619 --> 00:37:32,676 What else? 532 00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:34,499 Do you think he was a terrorist? 533 00:37:35,180 --> 00:37:38,396 He's ISIS, he is working in Syria. 534 00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:41,316 - You want me to say that? - No, like how does-- 535 00:37:41,340 --> 00:37:43,756 He wasn't, what do you call a terrorist? 536 00:37:43,780 --> 00:37:46,115 Exactly, I don't know. I'm asking. 537 00:37:46,139 --> 00:37:47,635 He wasn't a terrorist 538 00:37:47,659 --> 00:37:49,435 he worked to free the country 539 00:37:49,459 --> 00:37:51,435 from the dictatorship of Gaddafi. 540 00:37:51,459 --> 00:37:53,316 Freedom fighter? 541 00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:54,340 What else? 542 00:37:55,019 --> 00:37:56,939 I just left it to them. 543 00:37:58,499 --> 00:38:01,340 He was doing it with his friends really. 544 00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:04,220 I wasn't fighting his fight with him. 545 00:38:06,019 --> 00:38:08,115 You never really felt part of it? 546 00:38:08,139 --> 00:38:11,900 This was his journey, not mine. 547 00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:15,139 I was too busy. 548 00:38:15,979 --> 00:38:17,716 I had to get things... 549 00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:19,995 I couldn't go in a corner and hide myself 550 00:38:20,019 --> 00:38:21,515 or lock myself in a room. 551 00:38:21,539 --> 00:38:23,836 I was bringing up... you. 552 00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:26,659 You were my revolution. 553 00:38:33,579 --> 00:38:36,380 Love that taint of Arabische 554 00:38:36,939 --> 00:38:39,555 on the tip of the tongue yet gibberish 555 00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:46,356 A duck 'n' a dive safe houses 556 00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:48,316 no fixed addresses. 557 00:38:51,147 --> 00:38:53,708 Stig of the Dump was about this time. 558 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:57,316 It was Top of the Pops a Thursday drum. 559 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:04,260 Stress is hidden but still danger exists 560 00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:05,860 was real. 561 00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:07,555 I must admit 562 00:39:11,292 --> 00:39:14,611 Fletcher, Ramadham, Abu Zeid all get likked. 563 00:39:16,139 --> 00:39:17,700 Baba and Jumu'a? 564 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:20,196 Next on the list. 565 00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:32,955 - The children of the activists in those days were kept away 566 00:39:32,979 --> 00:39:36,500 from the hustle and bustle of opposition work 567 00:39:36,524 --> 00:39:37,845 for their safety. 568 00:39:40,939 --> 00:39:42,900 I wasn't here all the time 569 00:39:43,651 --> 00:39:48,051 and we tried to keep them, you know... 570 00:39:50,876 --> 00:39:52,356 In the dark. 571 00:40:03,499 --> 00:40:06,156 This building with the white cover 572 00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:09,019 being renovated was the embassy building. 573 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:11,380 We came from this side. 574 00:40:12,099 --> 00:40:16,435 The demonstration, the police were filling this whole area. 575 00:40:16,459 --> 00:40:19,380 Barricades were put the night before. 576 00:40:19,681 --> 00:40:24,075 There was a group of Gaddafi supporters on that side 577 00:40:24,099 --> 00:40:26,420 you know, shouting against us. 578 00:40:27,860 --> 00:40:32,139 Suddenly shots rang from that second window there. 579 00:40:34,002 --> 00:40:36,202 I was right in front of the demonstration. 580 00:40:38,139 --> 00:40:42,939 The reality came when Yvonne Fletcher, right here, fell. 581 00:40:43,499 --> 00:40:48,475 She was hit with a ricochet bullet right in the spine 582 00:40:48,499 --> 00:40:50,780 and she fell right here in front of us. 583 00:40:52,740 --> 00:40:54,062 - Did you think it had your name on it? 584 00:40:54,086 --> 00:40:56,566 - Yes definitely, I mean it was quite clear. 585 00:40:57,316 --> 00:40:59,196 - The whole area is now sealed off 586 00:40:59,220 --> 00:41:02,356 and police marksmen have the building in their sights. 587 00:41:09,235 --> 00:41:14,594 - This tree was planted in memory of WPC Yvonne Fletcher 588 00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:17,979 17th April 1984. 589 00:41:19,180 --> 00:41:22,979 Very nice, MashAllah, it's very nice. 590 00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:27,220 - Gaddafi says, "Lift the siege in London." 591 00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:31,900 His people demonstrate outside the British embassy in Tripoli. 592 00:41:32,619 --> 00:41:36,139 Scargill cheered after the union changes its voting rules. 593 00:41:36,860 --> 00:41:40,459 Torvill and Dean meet the Queen on a sunny day in Nottingham. 594 00:41:41,059 --> 00:41:44,579 The image of Libya in the outside world was very bad. 595 00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:48,035 Of course at that time there was the Palestinian issue, 596 00:41:48,059 --> 00:41:50,836 he was supporting the IRA in the UK, 597 00:41:50,860 --> 00:41:53,260 there was bombings all over the world. 598 00:41:54,659 --> 00:41:56,620 He became famous for being 599 00:41:56,644 --> 00:41:58,764 a supporter of international terrorism. 600 00:42:01,579 --> 00:42:04,196 Scotland Yard came to exchange information. 601 00:42:04,220 --> 00:42:06,820 What is what and who is who. 602 00:42:14,659 --> 00:42:16,876 A bomb exploded, hundreds injured. 603 00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:19,075 The American government seized on the death 604 00:42:19,099 --> 00:42:21,316 as the reason to retaliate against Gaddafi 605 00:42:21,340 --> 00:42:23,316 to justify bombing Tripoli. 606 00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:26,100 - The incidents have all the ingredients 607 00:42:26,124 --> 00:42:29,284 of being the work of Gaddafi's revolutionary committees. 608 00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:32,660 Despite our repeated warnings, Gaddafi continued 609 00:42:32,684 --> 00:42:34,724 his reckless policy of intimidation 610 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:37,475 his relentless pursuit of terror. 611 00:42:37,499 --> 00:42:40,955 He counted on America to be passive. 612 00:42:40,979 --> 00:42:42,156 He counted wrong. 613 00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:48,220 - Tripoli is under attack. 614 00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:06,539 God is great! 615 00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:14,860 - Tell me about Chad. 616 00:43:14,939 --> 00:43:16,420 God is great! 617 00:43:16,499 --> 00:43:20,075 - Chad, we went to Chad in 1987 618 00:43:20,099 --> 00:43:25,035 because we couldn't find anywhere else to work from 619 00:43:25,059 --> 00:43:30,459 and Chad had a war with Gaddafi which Gaddafi lost miserably. 620 00:43:49,139 --> 00:43:51,019 - So the idea was to start another war? 621 00:43:53,394 --> 00:43:54,955 - Yes but it was a long shot. 622 00:43:54,979 --> 00:43:57,876 It was a very ambitious programme. 623 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:00,459 It was too big for us. 624 00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:05,716 This sort of thing, you cannot leave it 625 00:44:05,740 --> 00:44:08,676 to drag for a year or two years 626 00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:11,955 and I felt that the Front has become 627 00:44:11,979 --> 00:44:15,700 a tool in the hands of most likely the CIA. 628 00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:21,539 It began to dawn on me that we are just wasting our time. 629 00:44:24,539 --> 00:44:26,396 I became convinced that 630 00:44:26,420 --> 00:44:29,780 it is going to break the back of the Front. 631 00:44:34,059 --> 00:44:37,979 I left the Front at the end of the Chad episode. 632 00:44:44,579 --> 00:44:46,075 - Was there any bad blood? 633 00:44:46,099 --> 00:44:50,860 - There were sort of differences, arguments and 634 00:44:51,979 --> 00:44:53,420 things like that, but... 635 00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:59,939 I became resigned to the fact that Gaddafi is there forever. 636 00:45:01,740 --> 00:45:06,140 Gaddafi is going to go and his children are going to take over 637 00:45:06,164 --> 00:45:10,284 another 50, 60 years, nothing is going to happen. 638 00:45:27,785 --> 00:45:28,959 - Mayday! 639 00:45:29,499 --> 00:45:31,540 - Rescue teams from all over Britain 640 00:45:31,564 --> 00:45:33,885 are heading for the scene of what looks to be 641 00:45:33,909 --> 00:45:35,710 Britain's worst air crash tonight. 642 00:45:35,955 --> 00:45:37,836 - Death and destruction in the sky 643 00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:40,860 brought death and devastation on the ground below. 644 00:45:44,099 --> 00:45:45,955 - There are growing fears that sabotage 645 00:45:45,979 --> 00:45:49,316 did bring the Pan Am jumbo jet crashing down 646 00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:52,579 into the Scottish town of Lockerbie last night. 647 00:45:53,419 --> 00:45:57,915 - The whole of the 1990s Libya was under sanctions 648 00:45:57,939 --> 00:46:01,019 and the country was going down all the time. 649 00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:17,716 We opposed any relations between ourselves 650 00:46:17,740 --> 00:46:19,381 and the United States and Britain 651 00:46:19,405 --> 00:46:21,326 because they are killers and murderers 652 00:46:23,936 --> 00:46:26,796 and we opposed to any relations with Thatcher 653 00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:29,659 she's the criminal and she's the murderer 654 00:46:30,417 --> 00:46:31,736 and she's the terrorist. 655 00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:43,659 - It was a period of darkness. 656 00:46:47,579 --> 00:46:49,301 There were long long moments 657 00:46:49,325 --> 00:46:54,604 periods of months and years re-thinking and re-considering. 658 00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:56,796 Did we do the right thing? 659 00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:02,716 How can we at least recoup 660 00:47:02,740 --> 00:47:06,420 some of the things that we have achieved in the past? 661 00:47:22,939 --> 00:47:25,356 But the revolution became digital, 662 00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:29,139 that was the flood of satellite TV. 663 00:47:31,499 --> 00:47:34,180 And then I started appearing on television. 664 00:47:35,019 --> 00:47:36,356 In the open you know, 665 00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:39,276 I had no more camouflage or anything like that 666 00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:42,276 and that was extremely successful. 667 00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:44,836 - Did it feel liberating to be able to not hide? 668 00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:46,180 Yes, exactly. 669 00:47:46,315 --> 00:47:47,835 No one can deny the existence 670 00:47:47,860 --> 00:47:49,659 of a religious and political revival 671 00:47:49,684 --> 00:47:51,443 in the Islamic world today. 672 00:47:51,579 --> 00:47:53,796 I worked for the BBC, Al Jazeera, 673 00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:57,915 ANN and MBC that could transmit to Libya 674 00:47:57,939 --> 00:48:00,475 and the regime could do nothing about it. 675 00:48:07,459 --> 00:48:11,860 1996, there was an incident in June in Tripoli. 676 00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:14,236 Abu Salim prison. 677 00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:18,019 There was a tiff between the prisoners and their guards 678 00:48:18,579 --> 00:48:23,356 and the regime went into that with force 679 00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:26,396 and ordered the prisoners to go back to their cells 680 00:48:26,420 --> 00:48:27,475 and they refused. 681 00:48:27,499 --> 00:48:30,796 So they simply shot them. 682 00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:41,700 They killed 1,276 prisoners in two days. 683 00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:44,796 Nobody knew how they were killed 684 00:48:44,820 --> 00:48:47,459 where are they buried, who are they? 685 00:48:48,340 --> 00:48:50,515 People used to go to the prison 686 00:48:50,539 --> 00:48:54,075 and take food and clothes for their sons or their husbands 687 00:48:54,099 --> 00:48:55,955 and they would take it from them 688 00:48:55,979 --> 00:48:58,115 and not tell them they're not alive. 689 00:48:58,139 --> 00:49:02,459 They tried by all means to hide that massacre. 690 00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:11,340 The situation carried on like this until about 2000. 691 00:49:12,099 --> 00:49:14,955 In the website Akhbar Libya 692 00:49:14,979 --> 00:49:17,900 we broke it out to the world that there was this massacre. 693 00:49:18,860 --> 00:49:21,356 Akhbar Libya was purely political 694 00:49:21,380 --> 00:49:23,915 and purely aimed at the regime. 695 00:49:23,939 --> 00:49:27,716 We have no weapons, we have no guns 696 00:49:27,740 --> 00:49:29,499 but we will fight you with words. 697 00:49:34,102 --> 00:49:38,359 The frustration and popular anger in Libya against Gaddafi 698 00:49:38,384 --> 00:49:40,920 was building up like mad. 699 00:49:41,795 --> 00:49:45,676 We began to publish things which had never been published before 700 00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,196 and straight away it was hacked. 701 00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:50,075 Gaddafi personally wanted 702 00:49:50,099 --> 00:49:52,820 to destroy me or destroy the website. 703 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:56,796 But then we have recovered within three or four days 704 00:49:56,820 --> 00:49:58,995 and back in business again. 705 00:49:59,019 --> 00:50:02,876 It was at that time that the regime started thinking, 706 00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:05,276 We have to talk to these people. 707 00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:06,955 Well good evening to you all 708 00:50:06,979 --> 00:50:09,915 and welcome to this special Ralph Miliband lecture 709 00:50:09,939 --> 00:50:12,420 on the past, present and future of Libya 710 00:50:13,139 --> 00:50:15,499 presented by Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi 711 00:50:15,979 --> 00:50:17,955 and let me say right from the beginning 712 00:50:17,979 --> 00:50:20,356 what a pleasure it is for me to have him here. 713 00:50:20,380 --> 00:50:25,236 At the same time Saif al-Islam, the eldest son of Gaddafi 714 00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:27,515 appeared in the scene. 715 00:50:27,539 --> 00:50:31,236 Gaddafi wanted to show a new regime face 716 00:50:31,260 --> 00:50:34,979 talking about human rights and democracy and so on. 717 00:50:35,659 --> 00:50:37,435 Over the past three decades 718 00:50:37,459 --> 00:50:40,595 Libya has conducted a grand scale social experiment 719 00:50:40,619 --> 00:50:45,156 to try to create an alternative to the dominant model 720 00:50:45,180 --> 00:50:48,756 of party-based representative democracy. 721 00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:50,075 A democracy based 722 00:50:50,099 --> 00:50:53,099 on the principle of direct participation. 723 00:50:54,059 --> 00:50:57,059 Of the spirit of ancient Athens. 724 00:51:00,459 --> 00:51:02,860 So, in theory 725 00:51:03,939 --> 00:51:07,676 Libya is the most democratic state in the world. 726 00:51:10,939 --> 00:51:15,979 He did ask me to come to Libya and I said, "Not yet." 727 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,756 He said, "You can work better in Libya." 728 00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:21,756 - It would have been a trap? - Yeah. 729 00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:25,515 He said, "You can have Akhbar Libya from Libya 730 00:51:25,539 --> 00:51:27,075 and you'll have the news." 731 00:51:27,099 --> 00:51:29,780 I said, you know, "It'll have to wait." 732 00:51:31,939 --> 00:51:35,876 He did hint at offering me money 733 00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:38,635 but I never encouraged him to do that 734 00:51:38,659 --> 00:51:41,876 and of course by 2006/2007 it was clear 735 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:46,380 that Saif has no agenda but the agenda of his father. 736 00:51:47,499 --> 00:51:49,424 - Does Libya accept responsibility 737 00:51:49,448 --> 00:51:51,139 for the attack on Lockerbie? 738 00:51:53,059 --> 00:51:56,156 Yes, we wrote a letter to the security council 739 00:51:56,180 --> 00:51:58,115 saying that we are responsible 740 00:51:58,139 --> 00:52:01,555 for the acts of our employees, or people. 741 00:52:01,579 --> 00:52:05,196 But it doesn't mean that we did it in fact. 742 00:52:05,465 --> 00:52:07,796 - So to be very clear on this, what you're saying is 743 00:52:07,820 --> 00:52:09,435 that you accept responsibility 744 00:52:09,459 --> 00:52:11,515 but you're not admitting that you did it? 745 00:52:11,539 --> 00:52:13,019 Of course. 746 00:52:14,459 --> 00:52:17,995 That, to many people, will sound like a very cynical way 747 00:52:18,019 --> 00:52:20,716 to conduct your relationship with the outside world. 748 00:52:20,740 --> 00:52:23,876 What can you do? Without writing that letter 749 00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:26,939 you will not be able to get rid of the sanction. 750 00:52:29,659 --> 00:52:34,860 34 years since Gaddafi's last official visit to France 751 00:52:36,619 --> 00:52:39,139 the former "bête noire" of the West 752 00:52:39,164 --> 00:52:42,963 supporter of terrorism, now has the honour of French Republic. 753 00:52:44,490 --> 00:52:46,129 The Colonel Gaddafi has abandoned 754 00:52:46,154 --> 00:52:48,034 his nuclear programme and collaborates 755 00:52:48,059 --> 00:52:49,740 in the fight against terrorism. 756 00:52:49,765 --> 00:52:53,004 It is with this man that the French President shakes hands. 757 00:52:53,979 --> 00:53:00,260 The hour-long meeting discussed arms contracts and human rights. 758 00:53:09,019 --> 00:53:10,236 Gaddafi came back 759 00:53:10,260 --> 00:53:13,979 and started having new relations here in the West. 760 00:53:14,059 --> 00:53:18,300 Muammar is the leader, everything else is rubbish. 761 00:53:18,387 --> 00:53:22,187 The revolutionaries are here. 762 00:53:23,787 --> 00:53:27,396 How can you convince anybody that things have changed? 763 00:53:27,420 --> 00:53:28,635 They haven't. 764 00:53:28,659 --> 00:53:31,196 He will go back to the old methods 765 00:53:31,487 --> 00:53:33,716 I wouldn't discount that one bit 766 00:53:33,740 --> 00:53:36,900 specifically, especially, against Libyans. 767 00:53:38,619 --> 00:53:40,740 - Why do we think that you have changed? 768 00:53:41,443 --> 00:53:43,576 It's the world that has changed. 769 00:53:44,811 --> 00:53:46,878 My principles have not changed. 770 00:53:47,306 --> 00:53:48,906 Why has it not happened before? 771 00:53:49,149 --> 00:53:56,209 The old generation... the old guard are revolutionaries. 772 00:53:56,497 --> 00:53:58,778 So it's up to the young people? 773 00:54:00,019 --> 00:54:02,836 So leading up to 2011 774 00:54:02,860 --> 00:54:05,475 there was no idea that the Spring would happen? 775 00:54:05,499 --> 00:54:06,499 - No. 776 00:54:06,939 --> 00:54:10,515 In the first week before the 17th of February 777 00:54:10,539 --> 00:54:14,373 the families of Abu Salim prison were demonstrating in Benghazi. 778 00:54:15,539 --> 00:54:21,579 Benghazi wake up, the day you are waiting for has arrived! 779 00:54:21,604 --> 00:54:27,604 Blood of the martyrs will not go in vain. 780 00:54:28,820 --> 00:54:32,955 Gaddafi and his son came in true colours. 781 00:54:32,979 --> 00:54:35,740 There was no more pretence. 782 00:54:41,459 --> 00:54:43,579 Remember my words very well. 783 00:54:45,099 --> 00:54:47,059 Today we are at a cross roads 784 00:54:48,220 --> 00:54:51,860 and a historical decision for us in Libya. 785 00:54:52,939 --> 00:54:55,995 We ask now as a final solution 786 00:54:56,019 --> 00:54:58,075 before it is too late. 787 00:54:58,099 --> 00:55:01,716 Instead of crying over 84 killed people 788 00:55:01,740 --> 00:55:03,915 we'll be crying over thousands. 789 00:55:03,939 --> 00:55:06,276 Blood will flow, rivers of blood 790 00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:08,059 in all the cities of Libya 791 00:55:08,979 --> 00:55:11,019 and you will emigrate from Libya. 792 00:55:12,180 --> 00:55:16,140 Make them ashamed, embarrass them. 793 00:55:16,180 --> 00:55:20,939 I am in the midst of the crowds here in Tripoli, in Green Square 794 00:55:21,019 --> 00:55:26,340 We shall defeat any aggression with an armed people 795 00:55:26,420 --> 00:55:29,099 and if so we shall break open the weapon silos 796 00:55:29,124 --> 00:55:30,566 and arm the entire Libyan people. 797 00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:33,979 Sing and dance he said. 798 00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:36,619 1, 2, 3 799 00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:41,059 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. 800 00:55:46,939 --> 00:55:48,900 Yes, yes, that's fine, thank you. 801 00:55:48,979 --> 00:55:52,260 What is the story of hallucinatory drugs in Libya? 802 00:55:52,340 --> 00:55:58,979 This is propaganda created by the regime. 803 00:55:59,059 --> 00:56:03,539 These accusations have no truth in them whatsoever. 804 00:56:03,619 --> 00:56:05,820 We must go to the 805 00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:08,260 this man has no legitimacy, 806 00:56:08,340 --> 00:56:14,420 he is not wanted any more and has no future in Libya. 807 00:56:14,499 --> 00:56:17,740 He has to choose the way he is going to leave Libya 808 00:56:17,820 --> 00:56:20,939 dead or alive. 809 00:56:21,780 --> 00:56:25,979 This is why I say we have to leave the matter to the Libyans. 810 00:56:26,059 --> 00:56:28,676 - Mr. Gaddafi, there are large areas of this country 811 00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:30,955 which you don't control any more. 812 00:56:30,979 --> 00:56:33,716 There are even people in towns quite near here 813 00:56:33,740 --> 00:56:37,836 who are part of this rising, this rebellion. 814 00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:40,035 What are you going to do about all of that? 815 00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:47,756 What is the question? 816 00:56:59,459 --> 00:57:02,075 - It's a big time, it's a big day. 817 00:57:08,499 --> 00:57:09,900 It's exciting isn't it? 818 00:57:10,619 --> 00:57:12,035 It is very. 819 00:57:12,059 --> 00:57:13,059 - Exciting? 820 00:57:14,059 --> 00:57:16,780 All these years we've been waiting for these days. 821 00:57:17,300 --> 00:57:19,860 Well many people have done the same 822 00:57:21,019 --> 00:57:24,780 but it's still out of their reach. 823 00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:29,515 - What are you going to do if Baba has to go to Libya? 824 00:57:29,539 --> 00:57:31,236 Well... 825 00:57:31,260 --> 00:57:32,995 - You might be first lady of Libya. 826 00:57:33,019 --> 00:57:34,676 No. 827 00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:39,256 Of course it's exciting, it's worrying, 828 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,396 it's exhilarating. 829 00:57:41,420 --> 00:57:43,539 - So how long do you think it will take now? 830 00:57:45,058 --> 00:57:48,177 I hope, God willing, a few days. 831 00:57:52,611 --> 00:57:53,651 Allahu Akbar. 832 00:57:53,748 --> 00:57:56,885 Didn't they tell you yesterday that Gaddafi is in Venezuela? 833 00:57:56,909 --> 00:57:57,998 And here I am. 834 00:58:00,174 --> 00:58:03,627 It's time to work! It's time to march! 835 00:58:03,651 --> 00:58:05,436 It's time to triumph! 836 00:58:05,473 --> 00:58:09,749 No going back! To the front! To the front! To the front! 837 00:58:09,788 --> 00:58:12,353 Revolution! Revolution! 838 00:58:25,979 --> 00:58:27,435 - Who sent you a message? 839 00:58:27,459 --> 00:58:30,860 This Libyan man, he's very funny. 840 00:58:35,820 --> 00:58:38,876 This is after Gaddafi spoke and disappeared. 841 00:58:55,139 --> 00:58:56,700 What did he say? 842 00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:12,595 Some tea Shamela, please. 843 00:59:21,820 --> 00:59:26,939 We announce to the world that Muammar Gaddafi has been killed 844 00:59:28,659 --> 00:59:31,419 at the hands of the revolutionaries 845 00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:39,876 and Gaddafi's tyranny and dictatorship 846 00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:42,475 has been finally ended, and this chapter 847 00:59:42,499 --> 00:59:45,876 has been closed for Libya and for all the world. 848 01:00:07,019 --> 01:00:08,260 Dog! 849 01:00:13,740 --> 01:00:16,995 The dream of Libya has always been with me. 850 01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:24,380 A place of oasis and dust. 851 01:00:26,019 --> 01:00:27,740 An ancient language 852 01:00:28,820 --> 01:00:31,180 traditions of the ageless. 853 01:00:33,099 --> 01:00:34,820 A family I had never met. 854 01:00:35,860 --> 01:00:37,860 A dictator that pervaded everything. 855 01:00:39,340 --> 01:00:40,939 It was a closed place 856 01:00:41,780 --> 01:00:43,260 a place of mystery. 857 01:00:44,979 --> 01:00:48,300 As it looked like Libya was finally going to be free 858 01:00:49,380 --> 01:00:50,780 the question remained 859 01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:55,356 would my father's dream share Libya's dream for itself? 860 01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:27,659 Uncle Ashur. 861 01:01:28,860 --> 01:01:31,099 Call your grandmother. Where is she? 862 01:01:31,180 --> 01:01:32,260 - Grandma! 863 01:01:34,995 --> 01:01:38,195 - When you move to the new house, please tell us. 864 01:01:38,220 --> 01:01:40,860 - So we can come and see you. We’ll bring you a sheep. 865 01:01:40,885 --> 01:01:43,405 - Yeah! Soon! 866 01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:45,950 Sheep travel on planes, right? 867 01:01:46,193 --> 01:01:47,552 Yeah, they put them in the back. 868 01:01:47,577 --> 01:01:49,317 They’ve got a place for them. 869 01:01:49,702 --> 01:01:51,622 - We’ve been consoling ourselves saying 870 01:01:51,647 --> 01:01:54,727 "This year Ashur will come, we’ll get a car 871 01:01:54,752 --> 01:01:59,832 he can take us to see the country." 872 01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:04,099 But Allah decided that who knows how many more years. 873 01:02:04,659 --> 01:02:06,220 So we accepted. 874 01:02:17,579 --> 01:02:20,019 When I went to Libya... 875 01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:25,659 it is a feeling impossible to understand and explain. 876 01:02:26,138 --> 01:02:28,154 It was unbelievable. 877 01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:35,156 My own birthplace. 878 01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:41,075 They were all crying 879 01:02:47,224 --> 01:02:49,000 We sit together and say, 880 01:02:49,025 --> 01:02:52,285 "Are we really in Libya?" 881 01:02:55,939 --> 01:02:58,236 - He phoned his sister 882 01:02:58,260 --> 01:02:59,635 and then he told them, 883 01:02:59,659 --> 01:03:02,756 "I'm here, I'm coming to see you in the next half an hour." 884 01:03:02,780 --> 01:03:05,180 "Our Khali is here!" 885 01:03:07,139 --> 01:03:09,396 They were ecstatic. 886 01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:17,796 That was the moment I may have missed. 887 01:03:36,644 --> 01:03:38,803 Recital three, Oasis. 888 01:03:40,380 --> 01:03:41,659 Made me wonder 889 01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:44,499 question myself, stop to ponder. 890 01:03:45,059 --> 01:03:47,180 A 40 year exile ends - 891 01:03:48,059 --> 01:03:49,876 no longer. 892 01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:53,035 Forget the writing nuff blood I can see it on the walls. 893 01:03:53,059 --> 01:03:54,555 Trust me. 894 01:03:54,579 --> 01:03:56,579 I'm here for the bazeen and couscous 895 01:03:57,139 --> 01:03:59,380 reconnecting with Eshdeda and Sundus. 896 01:04:00,740 --> 01:04:03,435 Leptis Magna, Gharian, Tarablous. 897 01:04:03,459 --> 01:04:05,796 That olive tree that original mint tea 898 01:04:05,820 --> 01:04:08,459 sweltering heat, that sweet fresh cut meat. 899 01:04:11,820 --> 01:04:14,900 Shed no tear here for that new beginning is done. 900 01:04:15,579 --> 01:04:18,836 Politics killed it but faith insists a song. 901 01:04:35,260 --> 01:04:38,756 I tell you what, the time I spent in Libya 902 01:04:38,780 --> 01:04:41,380 after the revolution. 903 01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:45,740 It was not settled at all, I wasn't settled. 904 01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:51,475 Of course there were the militias 905 01:04:51,499 --> 01:04:53,156 the other political groups 906 01:04:53,180 --> 01:04:56,180 whose main interest is money and power. 907 01:04:59,579 --> 01:05:04,099 I couldn't find a direction in which to work for the government 908 01:05:05,260 --> 01:05:07,659 and with ordinary Libyan people. 909 01:05:10,340 --> 01:05:12,459 I was not accepted. 910 01:05:35,420 --> 01:05:39,276 I mean Libya, you never lived there, 911 01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:43,716 experienced the texture of the social life and so on. 912 01:05:43,740 --> 01:05:47,139 It's the one thing that I feel despondent about. 913 01:05:48,220 --> 01:05:53,499 It's all gone, it's all completely fizzled out. 914 01:05:54,019 --> 01:05:56,059 Now, who to blame for this? 915 01:06:21,158 --> 01:06:24,893 The exile always comes back 916 01:06:24,918 --> 01:06:27,734 to the old country he left. 917 01:06:35,139 --> 01:06:39,059 But now I'm in exile again. 918 01:06:40,979 --> 01:06:42,859 Good heavens. 919 01:06:44,499 --> 01:06:47,876 - Do you want to go back? - Yes, I do want to go back. 920 01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:50,196 But not to go back in a situation like this. 921 01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:53,659 It's like going into a war zone. 922 01:06:57,539 --> 01:07:00,595 It is sad, it's disappointing, it's painful 923 01:07:00,619 --> 01:07:04,579 but what can you do? There is very little you can do 924 01:07:05,380 --> 01:07:10,019 where there is no more room for people like myself. 925 01:07:12,619 --> 01:07:15,595 In Libya there were so many factors 926 01:07:15,619 --> 01:07:19,475 that have destroyed the spirit of reconciliation 927 01:07:19,499 --> 01:07:21,236 and working together. 928 01:07:21,260 --> 01:07:24,515 And now of course, it is, 929 01:07:24,539 --> 01:07:27,955 what I call "The generation of Gaddafi". 930 01:07:27,979 --> 01:07:30,356 Who were brought up under Gaddafi. 931 01:07:30,380 --> 01:07:31,995 They are the people who are ruling. 932 01:07:32,019 --> 01:07:35,555 There's a new breed completely. 933 01:07:35,579 --> 01:07:40,836 They had their own ideas and their own interpretations 934 01:07:40,860 --> 01:07:43,115 of what should be done. 935 01:07:43,139 --> 01:07:46,340 So do you feel like you are ready now to let it go? 936 01:07:46,939 --> 01:07:48,915 No I can't let it go, 937 01:07:48,939 --> 01:07:52,435 I mean it's in my DNA, I can't let it go. 938 01:07:52,459 --> 01:07:54,316 But, uh... 939 01:07:54,340 --> 01:07:58,939 But I can't get involved as much as I used to. 940 01:07:59,759 --> 01:08:03,534 If a good government emerges 941 01:08:03,559 --> 01:08:06,376 and the situation stabilises somewhat 942 01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:08,475 we might still go back 943 01:08:08,499 --> 01:08:10,955 and play a role, there's no doubt... 944 01:08:10,979 --> 01:08:13,515 - The dream is still there? - It's still there yes. 945 01:08:13,539 --> 01:08:15,836 But the dream is fractured now, 946 01:08:15,860 --> 01:08:17,635 the dream doesn't exist any more. 947 01:08:17,659 --> 01:08:21,475 I can't even go back to visit my own family 948 01:08:21,499 --> 01:08:26,100 my own friends, my own country which I left 40 or 45 years ago. 949 01:08:26,699 --> 01:08:30,060 I mean this is unprecedented 950 01:08:31,499 --> 01:08:32,779 and it's not fair. 951 01:08:33,260 --> 01:08:35,515 I mean there is political fight, 952 01:08:35,539 --> 01:08:38,675 I accept there should be a political fight and so on. 953 01:08:38,699 --> 01:08:42,635 But to turn the country into a non-touchable 954 01:08:42,659 --> 01:08:45,116 a non-approachable at all 955 01:08:45,140 --> 01:08:46,659 is crazy. 956 01:08:47,380 --> 01:08:50,940 There's nothing really worth 957 01:08:52,619 --> 01:08:54,779 worth fighting for. 958 01:09:43,619 --> 01:09:47,420 I always knew Baba was in exile by the way he liked his tea. 959 01:09:49,340 --> 01:09:52,435 Not in those big protective mugs that the English like, 960 01:09:52,459 --> 01:09:55,260 with the splash of milk and the teabag left in 961 01:09:56,823 --> 01:09:59,919 like an anchor securing them to place and pride. 962 01:10:06,260 --> 01:10:09,635 He preferred loose leaf with a hand-full of garden mint 963 01:10:09,659 --> 01:10:11,928 thrown together without choice 964 01:10:11,953 --> 01:10:14,602 into an ocean of sweet hot water. 965 01:10:15,739 --> 01:10:19,739 Always served in a thin glass, always on the verge of breaking 966 01:10:21,412 --> 01:10:25,332 threatening to abandon its passengers across the tabletop. 967 01:10:28,085 --> 01:10:29,085 But it never did. 968 01:10:31,420 --> 01:10:34,236 - Abdullah, where's the tea?