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- On September 10th, life was perfect.
We had two kids, Bobby and Jeff working up in New York,
living up in New York.
We were on a pedestal on the 10th.
- I was having a lot of fun.
I guess the only sort of downside
was that I didn't get to see my mom too much.
I was just being a kid.
You want to be out doing stuff
and like I said, she was commuting to the city every day.
- I was not in a good place in my life
On the 10th of September.
I had spent some time with Frank and that was the good part.
- On the 10th I'm on the beach
obviously with my mom and my wife and two kids.
They were probably six months, 18 months at the time,
so you're doing stuff like you do,
playing in the sand, building sandcastles
and just enjoying that time.
And, you know, that's how we kind of
imagined the rest of the holiday would pan out.
- You can't forget.
- Well prior to 9/11, I was involved in activism,
United Nations Group, and the idea was
that we would work kind of like the United States
on a international level.
So when 9/11 happened
and the subsequent change in atmosphere,
it was really hard to talk about anything
that made sense publicly,
because it was kind of a unilateral
United States world that we were going
to do whatever we wanted
and it was going to be violent
and it was going to be warlike.
My name is Robert Griffin, I'm a psychologist
and I went to school at Penn State
and Marywood University in Pennsylvania.
Like most I get up and get coffee
and it's time to get to work.
Some people go through the trauma
of the loss and the violent death
and then also go through the trauma
of finding out that things aren't as they seemed
or that there's problems that hurt in other ways.
So their trauma initially is disorienting.
How do we fit in the world anymore?
Am I a father? Am I a son?
- I just got a text from Jeff.
We have to be there at 10 to seven tomorrow.
Can you get the sugar, hun? - Yeah.
- Did I put in enough water? Yeah, I'm good.
I left some in there from earlier.
- When you have a child die, it's very tough for families.
Some people do pull together.
It depends a lot on who they are before it happened
and they seem to be made of the right stuff
to be able to support each other
and to stay as a family and also enjoy their grandkids.
- One day at a time, right? - Yep.
- Okay, I guess the best thing is to text Jeff back
and tell him that you'll go with Zoe and I'll go with Danny.
- That's great. - Yeah, that works.
Yeah.
- I'd rather travel to Schuylkill that early in the morning-
- Yeah. - Than in the afternoon,
that's for sure.
- Well, both of us will get to see.
- Yeah. - Yeah, see the kids.
- I don't know what the scene is,
but that's Jeff and Bobby there.
He was a good friend of mine.
I just went to his grave site.
- It's been years since I wore a wedding band
and now because we got these at our 50th,
I'm gonna wear it all the time.
- Do you know when I lost the first one?
- I have it in my drawer. - You still have it?
- I found it, yeah.
- Here's Jeff and Bobby.
I forget what this was.
Probably he was in Princeton or just had left Princeton.
He left Princeton in '97
and this is of course Bobby at,
I'm sure it's, yeah, it's at Princeton.
I don't know.
I don't know if it was part of graduation.
- And then that's why it's hard to leave.
We have so many memories here.
- We called this a starter home, right?
- Yeah.
We started and ended. - We started and ended.
- This is down at Cape May.
Might have been the last weekend we saw Bobby.
This was his fiancee, Jen.
That's right. They weren't engaged.
Jeez.
And they were to be engaged that following week.
- They were going...
He hadn't given her the ring when he died.
- That's, uh, it's such a great photo.
It's probably the best photo of him.
They used to share a room, but as Bobby got older,
he wanted his own little room.
Of course we revamped it.
There was a bed here.
This was June 21st.
Bobby just loved to write. Phenomenal writer.
And just to give you an example,
when he was in third grade, I'll just never forget this,
I forget the teacher's name,
but we were sitting there after the interview,
of course he was doing great in class and all that,
but you know, all third graders seem to do great.
But she said, let me tell you something, Bob,
I'm telling you right now, save your pennies.
Said because this kid's going to Harvard
or an Ivy League school.
Little Bobby.
Bobby was on the side right here with Helen.
- It's just hard to believe though.
I mean, when I look at those times
and think about Bobby as a little boy,
it's so painful to think he's not here.
He's in New York. He's fine.
Because that's where I left him.
I see him as a little boy and then he's gone
and it's almost like a little bit of like guilt in there.
Like I wasn't able to keep him alive.
Friends said to me,
I can't believe you're still going up to New York
and we couldn't get enough of it
because that's what he loved.
He loved being up there.
- I mean, a lot of people won't go to Ground Zero.
I just don't know how people can just walk away from it.
- You have to understand
not everyone can deal with that.
I know I can't, I, I just,
I want to just think of Bobby as whole and perfect.
- I don't know.
That's what's bothered me about people
that they can't look at what happened that day-
- You can't judge other people by what you're doing.
This is your journey,
this is your way of going through the tunnel
to get to the other side.
You need to do this.
I couldn't go. - Well that's why...
Why can't you do it?
- It's not going to bring him back.
It would be wasted time
to have me in the position you're in.
Thank god you do it, though.
- It seems like I'm almost ordained to do this
for some reason because-
- I know you feel that way. - Because no one does it.
- She's stuck in the marriage.
She's stuck with Bob and it's obviously painful
and she does what she needs to to cope
and to basically survive.
- When it gets more and morbid
and you describe certain aspects of it that I can't handle,
I think it's time for me to just let you talk, you know?
So I think I'll do that.
Excuse me.
Okay.
Catch you later. - All right.
- So I will say about Bob McIlvaine
is that one of the things that impressed me about him
is that he has grown over the years from what I could tell
and this trauma has kind of refined him.
- On September 10th, life was perfect.
We had two kids, Bobby and Geoff.
Bobby graduated from Princeton, working up in New York,
living up in New York.
We were on a pedestal on the 10th,
then September 11th came.
- Something hit the World Trade Center.
A huge explosion.
- We saw an explosion at the Twin Towers.
- Helen calls me, the Tower's been hit.
She still wants to turn the TV...
I had turned the TV on and then she called
and she said I can't get ahold of Bobby.
She immediately called him and there was no answer,
but of course we didn't think anything was wrong
because he worked at Merrill Lynch,
which was right across the street from the Towers.
I was in work and I said, look, I have to leave.
- It's very bad.
- Did the building collapse? - Yeah.
- Oh my, the whole building?
- I don't know if it's the whole building.
It's so crazy...
- So Merrill Lynch, of course we were talking
to Merrill Lynch immediately
and I went up there to look for him.
And there was so many people down at Ground Zero
walking around the area, just looking for people.
Oh, I think we called, you know,
we found out where, where he was.
He was at the coroners, okay?
But I don't know if we found our right there.
He said they had a wallet.
That's how they found out.
We had the wallet.
In fact...
I got the wallet right here.
This is a biohazard thing.
I don't think you can see.
I've had it opened many times,
but this is a biohazard.
This is the wallet that they had.
In other words, we found out they had a full body
except for, and I'll show you what happened to him,
but the wallet was one them.
Now at the time, everything was fine.
Everything's disintegrated, everything in here is.
But I think...
They had Bobby's license.
And Helen went up to the dentist
and they actually got x-rays.
Helen brought the x-rays down and it was a match.
So the next morning we took him home.
We're...
Believe me, we're one of the luckiest ones.
Because so many people didn't get bodies. Nothing.
And we actually got a full, not a full body,
but we got a body to take home and bury.
And we, you know, we're so grateful for that.
- Whose grief is it? Whose loss is it?
In some way, the government
has claimed the loss as their own.
Folks were told how to feel, what to think about it
and it adds to their pain when it's used
for other types of policies that have nothing to do with it.
- We went to war and there goes the authority thing.
I didn't believe it was necessary to go to war
because of Bobby.
I knew Bobby would have said, what, are you nuts?
And this, I can't give you an exact time for this.
I think it was July 4th,
but I've been to so many demonstrations over the years.
And of course around the world,
but I think this was in Philadelphia
and it was a candlelight type of thing,
but again, I've just been to so many of them.
I just can't place it.
You know, I always wore a picture of Bobby.
I haven't been doing that as much as I did before.
He would have been 100% against the war.
And I was. Helen and I both were 100%.
- A conflict is part of our nature.
We have a way of identifying
the us versus them or the other
and so that leads to all sorts of problems
where the other is not considered in there
as fully human cause it's hard to get people to fight wars.
People don't hate on their own.
They have to be given a story.
- When I got arrested down in Washington, DC
at the protests, I didn't want to go to jail,
so they arrested us, took us away in a paddy wagon
and paid the fine, but everyone agreed to that.
so not some people were getting arrested,
so forth and so on.
So I can't tell you, I would think that would
be the first big protest.
'Cause Helen and I were doing the Peaceful Tomorrows
and with that, we did the protest with Peaceful Tomorrows.
And I actually went to the commission hearings
thinking that we would actually get something done.
I really, I kept that hope alive,
but Condoleezza Rice on August 6,
and she just bullshitted the whole time.
And even the commissioners
were getting so frustrated with it.
But see, in those hearings,
each person that's asked a question, you know,
they couldn't go one for 15, 20, 25 minutes to grill you.
Listen, Condoleezza, you're not telling us anything.
Let's get to the facts here.
But no, they get five minutes
and she filibustered through it.
And I just started, I said, you know,
I won't say right here, but you know, MF-this,
no good sons of bitches
and Canadian broadcasting, you know,
they heard me, so they wanted to hear this,
and from there I just changed direction.
That's when I decided, well,
I'm not going to do Peaceful Tomorrows anymore.
I'm just going to talk about what happened on 9/11.
Hey my man. - Hey, Bob.
How are you?
My name is Tony Szamboti,
actually formally Anthony Szamboti,
and I'm a degreed mechanical engineer.
Are you still in the same place?
- Oh yeah.
- Near Fort Washington?
- 47 years now. - 47...
How long? - Bobby was two-years-old.
- Wow.
- So he would be 46.
- He would be, he was 26 when he passed away.
- Yeah, so it's, yeah, 46.
- 46-years-old. - Good memory.
- Well, I know he was 26 when it happened.
- I didn't think about that.
- The interesting thing about engineering that I can say
is problems, the way they are solved, is it evolves.
The solution evolves.
You have a subconscious mind and a conscious mind.
Your conscious mind can only handle
so much at any given time.
Your subconscious mind
is a vast storehouse or warehouse
of all your life experience and what happens,
you hear the old expression sleep on it.
That's the way difficult problems are actually solved.
And if there is a solution, it'll come,
it'll evolve, it'll converge.
And that's why engineering is fun to me
because you're thinking about things,
you're trying to solve this problem
and you're musing or mulling it over and sort of,
that's, you know, even with 9/11,
that's the way it worked with me,
looking at these buildings.
You know, I imagine myself in the basement
of a large skyscraper and these huge,
concrete encased columns and you know,
like a parking garage or something.
How did that just completely give up the ghost?
- So this didn't happen until 2000...
Six, seven, eight...
I really didn't have the guts enough to go up
and find out exactly what happened to him, okay?
So this has been sitting there
and of course the first thing we get
is a picture of what happened.
All right, now this is how I started coming out,
finding out, you know, what I feel happened to him.
So we didn't know for sure.
A lot of people thought,
family members thought that maybe he jumped.
His friend said that no,
he was running away from the building
and he got hit by falling debris.
- You know, Bob's a decent guy.
Who wants to have their 26-year-old son
killed in that kind of fashion where, you know,
his body is partially destroyed?
- In this, his right arm's missing, okay?
In this, from his nose down, his entire face is missing.
Okay, so in other words, everything has blown.
His eyes are missing. Everything is blown out.
Back of his head is intact but,
you know, there's some fractures, okay?
- And all the wounds to his body were from the front.
No wounds on the back, right? - Right.
- So that would indicate explosive force.
- Can I just read you something?
You know, and it's taken a long time
to get to the point where I am right now,
but the story of 9/11.
This is coming right from the 9/11 commission hearing.
They spent two lines talking about
what happened to the buildings.
"A jet fuel fireball erupted upon impact
and shot down at least one bank of elevators.
The fireball exploded onto numerous lower levels,
including the 77th, the 22nd,
the West Street lobby and the B4 level."
- You expect us to believe this fireball came down
and then exploded.
Explosions are caused by rapid release of energy
from a confined substance.
The fireball is not confined. - No.
Ground floor, the lobby, flowers, things,
they weren't singed or anything.
I have documentation that he was found outside the building.
- Outside. This was before the buildings came down.
- Well when they picked him up,
he was outside the building.
- Right, but the building hadn't fallen yet.
Is that true? I think-
- No, no, of course not. - Right.
He was one of the first ones- - Well...
- Taken out, right?
- The report on him, he had, rigor mortis hadn't set in,
so that's when you can really tell when-
- I know, when- - So it's probably less...
He got to the coroners less than two hours after he died,
less than two hours. - Right.
- And what happened, I think what happened,
is Bobby was walking and decided
to go up to the floors and I think he was hit
as he was trying to walk in because of the nature.
His whole face was just blown off.
He lost his arm and he was blown out of his shoes.
So with that, I, you know, I stick by that story,
but then I've gone too much further than that.
Again, I want to know who killed him and why.
- Somebody said to me one time where a coverup
is only six inches deep.
You imagine a big layer of concrete, but it's a mile wide.
So unless you dig down vertical, you can't get under it.
You can't see out to the edges of it.
- We're up to, all right,
three minutes, you're doing another 30 seconds.
Or should we just ruin his tea and take it out now?
It's true, though. It does make a hell of a difference.
There's no point doing squeeze, squeeze, 30 seconds.
You'll get an absolutely rubbish cup of tea.
- I'd like most of this to be edited out, please.
My name's Maureen Lucille Campbell
and I live in Hassocks, West Sussex,
about eight miles from Brighton
and I've been retired for many years since I was 55,
21 years ago.
Probably only came in about three or four that morning.
- We were so hung over. - Hung over.
- I can tell 'cause Geoff- - They look like criminals.
- Well we are still drunk. - Oh, I know.
- Well, the three boys I'd say
different in a number of ways.
We've got Matthew, the eldest.
- Yep, my hair.
It's just, it's where I'm at right now.
Frustrated and pissed off with current events.
but in particularly, you know,
my fight for the last 20 years.
And so it's just, yeah, it's where I'm at.
A little bit like this up to the system.
Yeah, for the wake that we had.
We had a memorial with no remains.
This was I think 30th of September?
- Yes, it was.
- I mean, that to me is just a classic photo.
My name is Matt Campbell.
I live in the south of England in a small village in Sussex.
I have a degree in mathematical physics
and a master's in applied mathematics
and I have a second master's
in scientific application software.
- And Robert, the youngest one I was most like.
We like the quiet life and if someone said
two and two made eight, we'd say, yeah, that's fine.
We don't like confrontation and just let it go.
- Yeah, my name is Robert Benjamin Campbell.
I live in Keymer, Hassocks, which is in West Sussex.
- Rob was about five years younger me.
It was sufficient of a gap that in my head
he's always the little brother.
- I had a good friend, Nick, who had his own pub.
What we did is for Geoff, we had his wake there.
So all his friends, his family, everybody came
and what they did as a surprise for the family,
was they had a really good friend
who's really good at doing paintings
and they did a painting of Geoff.
My friends, like, you know,
like Geoff, a lot, if you know what I mean.
Looked up to him.
- That's Geoff's James Bond-
- Yes, coming out the...
- I think he loved that, didn't he?
- Outgoing, very sort of smiley, lots of charisma,
good nature, generous spirit, always, you know,
good at listening.
He'd laugh.
He's four years older than me,
so there's a bit of a gap, but,
I always looked up to Geoff more than Matt.
Sorry.
He was a bit of a nerd.
- Both Matthew and Geoff really
had their dad's brains, really clever.
Robert always said, the youngest,
the store brains ran out when it was his time to be born.
- Both finished uni.
So Geoff finished I think a year before me
and just she tarted to travel
and he definitely kind of switched from
I'm going to work in a bank,
because I think he realized
the trading route wasn't going to happen,
and just basically became a specialist.
His area was risk.
With Reuters, who he eventually ended up working for,
had products that worked in that space.
- This is Caroline.
They went up to London and took photos.
Phoebe's christening, isn't it?
Yeah.
So that's the little church
where we actually had the memorial.
Quite a glamorous shot of them,
and they went up to London, look right he is there.
- I think it was early 2000.
Worked for a client in Manhattan for six weeks,
eight weeks, something like that.
I can't remember.
So staying really close to where Geoff lived
and he'd just met Caroline I think the previous year.
And I think he was looking at getting an apartment with her.
I mean, it was that serious that quick,
which, you know, I said he'd had relationships before,
it was quite fast.
And so very quickly, you know,
it was obvious that this was very serious.
I guess he'd been working for Reuters
for at least a year, maybe longer.
And, you know, he was looking to, I guess, you know,
put his roots down.
I mean, it was very clear he loved,
absolutely loved New York.
- Well you know I'm fanatical
about keeping all these documents,
so I just had a quick look through to see
what we could dig up.
I met Matt originally back in '97, '98.
We were both working on the same project.
Matt was working for one of the suppliers.
Matt's brother, Geoff, was working for Reuters.
We had an idea that we would need
a North American New York based office
and Geoff was interested in leaving Reuters
and helping us set that up.
- In the weeks and the months prior,
we'd obviously been talking with him,
and Henry in particular,
just sorting out the structure of the proposed company
over in the states.
- But he'd actually come to England at the end of August,
the August bank holiday time.
- Did his usual thing, rushing around the country,
seeing family, friends.
- Well, we worked in a very small, niche industry
of specialists and there is a whole ecosystem
of industry press and industry conferences.
And there was one coming up on September the 11th
that was going to be at the World Trade Center.
So it ended up being that Nick and Geoff
would go to the conference and I ended up staying in London.
Meanwhile, Matt was on holiday in Lanzarote.
- I'm on the beach
obviously with my mum and my wife and two kids.
They were probably six months, 18 months at the time
so you're doing stuff like you do, playing in the sand
building sand castles and just enjoying that time.
- Around lunchtime or just after
I'd been exchanging emails with Geoff about, you know,
who he needs to meet at the conference and stuff like that.
And I recall getting an email from him
where he literally said, okay, Henry, I've got to go.
I'm going to be late for the conference.
That may have been the last email he ever sent.
- So I was at work
and just on the computer, on the internet,
and then we started hearing about what was going on
at the World Trade Center.
- Phoebe, who was only six months old,
was just struggling to settle.
All my kids have loved just being pushed around
in pushchairs and buggies.
Gets them to sleep most of the time,
so you do what any parent did
and Mel took her off the beach time
and was just basically walking up and down.
You know, please sleep.
- My understanding is that she saw the televisions there
which suddenly would show the Towers
and what was going on.
One had been hit.
I think she may have come back and called Matthew,
Matthew went up and I was on the beach,
and then eventually Matthew said basically
what has happened.
- Immediately I wasn't that concerned.
I mean, I knew Geoff worked for Reuters up in Time Square.
You're well away from the World Trade.
- Not long after it was basically I think
someone in the office told me,
I think it was Henry who told me that basically
Geoff might have attended the meeting.
- I remember calling Henry from this public payphone.
- There I am seeing what's happening on TV.
I'd seen this email from Geoff
saying, Henry, I got to go.
I'm going to be late for the conference,
which was at the right time for him to have
got the subway downtown from his apartment
and get to the conference.
I didn't know what to say to Matt.
I just...
I just mumbled something.
I'm not sure what I said, but I didn't tell him that,
hey, I know your brother's in the building.
I couldn't. I mean, what would you say?
- Got through to Rob and he just,
I remember him almost blurting out
Geoff's in the Tower,
and I remember just dropping the phone.
He'd spoken to Caroline and you know,
it became very clear that Geoff had headed down
to the conference and was at the top of the North Tower,
which obviously by this time had collapsed.
- Two came down and one just came down now,
on firefighters and cops.
Really bad, you're gonna have thousands dead.
- I remember mom just agasp.
I mean, she just, she knew, I mean,
she's always said that she felt.
- He died.
I just...
I just had that feeling that he was no more.
- So that was the day where the American guy was
dissolved into tears in our office.
And my diary entry simply says at the end of the day,
WTC tragedy, as straight laced as that.
Later in the day, it started becoming clear.
A few people who were due to be going to the conference
were okay and found and known to be okay,
but an awful lot of people were
not simply not being heard from.
And Nick responds saying,
"Nothing we can do I'm afraid.
People here can't even find out
if husbands and wives were okay."
- I had no idea, I mean, obviously it's going.
But I had no idea.
- You haven't those ones at all.
You saw the Geoff email, right?
- Yeah, yeah, I was copied on that,
but I didn't see until, you know, a couple of days later.
And I remember I used to mock you
for keeping your diary, Henry.
Your sort hourly blow by blow account of working.
- I don't remember exactly how long,
but Matt continued to work for the company for a while,
but the pressure and the stress
and a number of other factors meant that
he just took a leave of absence
that got formalized sometime later as, okay,
Matt's left and he's not coming back to the company.
I kept in touch with Matt and we would talk about stuff
and share views about things.
And I think he started looking into what had happened
with a bit more interest,
weeding through all of the mad, crazy theories
put around on the internet.
- You know, you get taught in the movies and stuff
that it's been a crime, it's going to be investigated,
you're going to go to court
and you're going to get truth and justice,
potentially someone held accountable for it.
We've never had that with 9/11.
There has been no examination
of the events of that day in court.
We have the 9/11 commission report
as the investigation,
but nothing to that legal standard that we all know.
Whether you trust it or not, it's what normally happens.
- Matt is a very interesting man.
It's going to haunt him if he hasn't moved on,
I can't see that he's ever going to let this go.
- Hey.
- Matt, how are you? How you feeling?
- Ian, how are you doing, mate?
You good? - Yeah, not too bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what's new since we saw each other last?
- Apart from my hair? - Your hair, yeah.
I wasn't going to say anything about that, Matt.
- Well you haven't got any, so.
I see you're wearing a-
- 9/11...
Well it's the 20th anniversary coming up, isn't it, so.
I did maths at university.
University was slightly unusual.
I did maths and then I did applied social studies masters.
You know, it was sort of ideal, really,
to make somebody suspicious about 9/11,
because the maths told me
that there was something terribly wrong
with the energy equation,
what we'd call the energy equation of the Towers.
I also have my social science background,
so I knew how easy it is to brainwash people basically.
So people wrote in after our ad in The Guardian
saying, oh, you know, we don't agree with this.
And I wrote a letter back and normally
you wouldn't expect, they'd just bin it.
They think well we've got his money, we'll bin it.
But actually they ran it.
Journalism, you know, if you're antiestablishment
or suspicious of the establishment,
journalism, it's very, very hard to make a living.
And I figured out that freshly roasted coffee
should work well.
We started off with just a homemade coffee roasting machine
on the street corner
and then, you know, it's got bigger
and I'm now I'm approaching retirement, actually.
So if you know anybody out there
who wants to buy a coffee shop in Notting Hill, you know.
- Who is this?
This is...
The full size? - That was the full page.
It would have been bigger than that.
- I was going to say, yeah,
because was a tabloid then or was is still a broad sheet?
- In those days it was still a broadsheet.
- Broadsheet, yeah. - Yeah.
- But when we met- - Yeah, when we first.
I remember it clearly, Matt.
- No, I've got a hazy memory,
'cause I thought it was that very first
Reinvestigate 9/11 meeting in about
May 2013 or April 2013.
- I mean, one of the most important things
that happened to the 9/11 Truth Movement
was that Matt Campbell turned up.
- Go back a bit in 2004, because we as a family
had brought back repatriated remains,
through English law, you have to have an inquest.
And I just started to think, a little light bulb moment,
if I repatriated Geoff's remains,
would that force a new inquest?
- That's exactly what politicians have been saying to us.
Can you find a victim?
And then you showed up, you know and I thought...
This is fantastic, you know? We finally cracked it.
- Ian had some contacts.
We ended up arranging a meeting with Michael Meacham.
He was a labor MP, not my MP,
but he'd been a longterm skeptic,
very cynical about what the US government had been up to
and other issues with the narrative.
- And when we had a private meeting with him,
he basically said, this just destroys my reputation
when I do this.
- Very supportive.
I mean he basically said whatever I need to do
to help you get your brother's inquest reopened,
you know, get in contact.
And he basically, you know, said use the remains.
It's a big part.
So we had a death certificate issued
towards the end of October.
And then around December, I remember both the press,
but also the police liaison officers,
telling us that we were very, very unlikely
to get any remains of Geoff
because bodies had been vaporized.
Which is, you know, in hindsight,
it's a really strange term to use.
It was actually from the chief medical examiner.
- There's literally no trace.
A significant number of people.
It's utterly, utterly horrifying.
- Obviously plenty bodies had been found,
but I think due to the degree of fragmentation
and all the rest of it,
and obviously what they knew they had.
I think it was a day before mom's birthday in June
and I think she got a call from, you know,
our police liaison officer.
Some of his remains had been identified.
And the, the piece in question was
a piece of Geoff's collarbone.
- And I thought Geoff is having a laugh on us.
When he was six months, we went on motor rail,
long story, but it jerked
and he was thrown on the ground at six months old.
He had a green fracture.
All right, don't forget my broken collarbone
when I was six months old.
- But you know, it went from an undertaker in the States,
it then got delivered to an undertaker in the UK
and then it was released to us.
It was in a little casket.
I didn't want to do with it and so for quite a few years,
it just sat outside my office
on the top floor of my house.
In 2004, mom got another call from the police,
and this time three of his remains had been identified.
They were small bone fragments.
I remember one was from his thigh bone, but they were small.
And so we now we had four.
- Another lot came over and that actually was his scalp.
- A bit of his scalp, a bit of his face,
a bit of his jaw, his ear, just, you know, recognizable.
- It wasn't burnt because my fear was that, you know,
to be in the flames...
We were told by the police liaison
that there was good chance that he could
just be vaporized or whatever the term is
when there's just ash.
- It's in the World Trade Center, sir,
on the 106th floor.
There is no injuries, but the people are trapped.
They don't have air. - We got it.
- So the very first inquest was here
at the West London Coroner's Court.
And anyway, out of the 67 British victims,
10 had actually been identified.
They basically created 10 different inquests,
but it's like a joint inquest or inquiry that they held.
Only two of the 10 victims
were represented by family members.
At the time, I didn't know that all of attending inquests
were done in an hour and 45.
I've listened to the audio,
I've got the actual transcripts, the official transcript.
And they spent probably no more than about
three or four minutes talking about my brother's life
and what was found.
And it seemed incredibly short that, you know,
that's his moment of an inquiry and justice
into the events surrounding his death.
After the inquest, a couple of weeks later,
I think mom just got a formal letter, which is, you know,
it's basically the conclusion that the coroner drew.
The impact into the North Tower of American Airlines 11
caused the subsequent collapse of the building
and that's how my brother died.
- The inquests were held at a time
when all the families would still have been
in the stunned disbelief inability to accept
all the different psychological states that you're in,
so it's like, yeah, get this done,
sweep it under the carpet, close that chapter and move on.
- Eight years ago, my brother had an inquest here
and you know, I didn't attend.
And it's kind of weird standing outside the building now
that possibly, hopefully, within two years,
I'm actually going to be inside that building
attending his reopened request.
So if all things are considered, it's not political,
it's not anything else.
It's just purely looking at the evidence
and the new evidence and the lack of inquiry
into that evidence.
- So much new information has come to light
since the inquest, not withstanding Geoff's own remains,
which weren't available,
and witness testimony about what happened on 9/11 .
- Yes, I would like that to be submitted
and the attorney general to make a decision on that
and I think really with all the information that we have,
I think it should go through.
- We've got way over what's required to basically
get the authority granted by the attorney general.
- I'm sure Matt might have more faith in British justice,
but I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical.
- But if you don't try, you don't succeed.
- So I'd say an awful lot is down
to the luck of the draw as to whether
Matt goes before an individual who cares about the facts.
You know, there's absolutely no reason in law
why Matt shouldn't win.
- My name is Drew DePalma
and I'm the director of operations
for an engineering firm in New Jersey.
My mom Jean Caviasco-DePalma, was killed in 9/11
and she was in the World Trade Center Tower One.
"I write this letter to support the application
of the Campbell family and briefly to explain
why I believe that further investigation
into the cause of the collapse of World Trade Center One
is not only worthwhile but necessary
because the ruling that the towers collapsed due to fire
makes them the first and only skyscrapers in the world
to do so by that cause.
The first and only of anything deserves extreme scrutiny,
especially given the cloud of doubt
surrounding all the events that transpired before,
during, and after that 9/11 day."
We're at the 9/11 Memorial.
This is the town I live in.
I didn't live here when my mom passed,
but it's a nice remembrance
and I'm glad my town has this
for all the people that were affected in this town.
I've been part of the town's parks committee
for about a year now, and we actually just ran a fundraiser
to help raise some funds to upgrade
the playground equipment.
There's a balance beam there now
that kind of stretches the playground.
You know, you see benches all around the park,
pretty much everywhere.
That's what most people donate.
But I think we have enough benches.
I want something, you know, kids can enjoy,
- So Drew doesn't really talk about his mother
as much as I'd hope.
We met in '04 and he told me a little bit about everything,
but we only really talk about it on the anniversary.
But this is something that he has been involved in
in the last two or three years
and I feel like this is closure
and almost a catharsis for him.
- I started going down the rabbit hole,
doing a bunch of research.
I was fine, I got a little angry for a little bit at a time,
but now I'm pretty much at peace with everything.
- Drew has, as you know, lost his mother
before he was fully grown.
He's an example of someone who's been able
to weather the loss at a very inconvenient time
that was too soon and somehow managed
to make himself an adult and a father and a husband.
- This picture was taken in Miami, Florida.
It was Jean's 40th birthday weekend.
It was a lot of fun.
It was something that we always planned to do
when Jean turned 40 and we actually did it.
So my husband calligraphed this for me.
It is actually something that Jean sent, an email.
She didn't write it, but it was an email that she sent,
she found, called From Me to You to several people
minutes before the towers were struck.
She was trying to get her life together
and this was maybe something that
she was reading periodically to help her, you know,
reevaluate her life and...
- Divorce was a pretty rough time for my mom.
It hit her really hard.
Just emotionally and physically.
But I felt at that point, at 9/11,
she was actually in good physical health.
She started working out more.
I guess we have big life changes,
you go one way or the other.
She was exercising more. She loved biking.
So she was by bicycle riding.
She was losing weight.
She was definitely happier, for sure.
So that's kind of a bright side that, you know.
I always hope when I go, you know,
it's at a peak of happiness, as opposed to the latter.
We got chickens in this past year.
They provide us with breakfast every morning.
The kids love handling them.
Some chickens are more social than others.
Probably...
Oh, no.
So I couldn't be happier here.
They definitely have different personalities, though.
Chickens aren't as dumb as you would think.
They actually understand,
up to like 20 words or something, I read.
I don't know if that's true or not, but...
I like animals.
- So Jean's name is right here.
- She worked in the city.
She was usually out of the house before I even woke up
because I drove myself to school at that point.
And then she didn't get home usually until late
and when she came home, I was out with my friends
and then we saw each other for dinner
and then I'd be out until whenever.
She was probably asleep by the time I got home.
Being a kid, you want to be out doing stuff,
and like I said, she was commuting to the city every day.
- You know, I had not seen this memorial before
and I was surprised how immense it is
and exactly from what I read points right to
where the Towers stood.
- We got a plane crashed
into the World Trade Center.
Are you aware of that?
- The World Trade Center in Manhattan?
- World Trade Center in Manhattan.
- Just another normal work day.
Drop Marissa off at my parents' house and got to work.
I don't remember the exact time,
but my principal came knocking on my door
and took me into the hallway and said that my mother
had called and...
Wanted me to go to her house.
- So I was walking through the halls
and there's just a lot of commotion going on.
I had no idea what was happening
and then they called, I guess like a meeting
for the whole school into the gym,
and they kind of explained what happened.
- The principal explained that planes flew
into the buildings that she had worked in.
- My mom works there.
So it's just like everyone else that day.
If anyone knew anyone that worked there or around there,
they were on the phone.
- And so I kind of went into numb mode, I call it.
You know, I just like, didn't have any feelings.
And she asked if someone should drive me home
and I said, no, no, I'll go.
And I drove home just totally focused.
And when I got there, you know,
you just keep seeing those same pictures.
That's all that we had at the time was those pictures
of the planes flying into those buildings.
- And we just, we went home
and I wasn't a smoker back then,
but that day I sure as heck had a cigarette.
- I called their high school and they had already left.
I have not been up there.
I've only been to the memorial inside
and I've been to the waterfalls,
but I have not been up into the tower.
You know, 'cause after 20 years,
you come to a place in your mind where you're, you know,
not necessarily at peace, but you've kind, of me personally,
I've kind of put it in itS little pocket, you know?
And then every once in a while something happens
or, you know, someone says something
and it kind of brings you back to a little bit
of that place where you don't always want to be.
The next day, though, my two brothers and my sister
went into the city.
I stayed home with my parents and Marissa
and they took pictures of Jean, and, you know,
people were just trying to find people
that could find their loved.
- Nothing was ever found of my mother, so,
had nothing to go on as far as
physical evidence for her, personally.
And I was probably the most optimistic person
in my family.
I was like, you know, she's gonna come out of it.
We'll find her eventually.
Even weeks after that
and even years after I was like, you know, who knows,
maybe she was in a coma or she wandered off somewhere.
I think with a weekend, my uncle,
who is her brother, pretty much, you know,
he analyzed where she worked, where her office was.
- She was on the hundredth floor,
and there was no way that she could have...
- He just didn't want me hold up false hope.
You know, pretty much gave it to me straight.
It's like, you know, the chances of her
making it out were pretty slim,
so that was pretty disappointing to say the least.
He could have let me hold on to some hope.
But no, I always like people to give it to me straight.
I like to do that for other people,
so I expect the same in return.
- I mean, I have to say when I'm with my niece and nephew,
Drew and Jamie, Jean's kids, it's a comfort, you know?
She's there.
I mean, she's everywhere, but she's there, with those kids.
I went to the 10 year memorial when it was 10 years ago.
Didn't really do anything for me as far as helping me...
Grieve because I've already, you know, done that.
So I don't need to go to any physical space
to look at that horror again and again and again.
You know, I kind of just deal in my own way by myself
or with my family or whatever it happens to be.
But yeah, I'm not interested in doing those things.
The 10th anniversary was enough.
It's just amazing to me that that,
and I know that's the whole crux of this whole thing.
Like, how does that just, you know...
How do those buildings perfectly fall?
You know...
- So yeah, it just strikes me as odd
that three buildings within a couple hours
of each other all fell down.
So it seems like something else was going on.
- And Drew is a man on a mission right now.
He wants all the answers.
- And there was a lot of stuff that didn't get analyzed
correctly, in my opinion.
I mean, if they had done their job,
I probably wouldn't be here now.
You know shooting this documentary
and trying to help get a new investigation.
- I think we owe, as a country,
we owe it to the poor people that have passed away
and their families and the world
to find out what really happened here
because it's not just, you know,
planes hit, book closed kind of thing.
- From the time I was a little kid,
I was building things
and I was always trying to build something
My mother used to say, if it can be taken apart,
Bill will take it apart 'cause that's what he does.
He wants to know how things work.
And I pulled a lot of things apart.
My name is Bill Brinnier and I am a architect.
I've been an architect since 1984,
but I've done architecture all my life.
You know, I grew up right around here
and here, in this house and I must've built
20 forts in the woods.
And the last one I built, I think I was 15 years old.
It was framed properly.
It was completely wired for electricity.
I used I used barbed wire to run electricity
from the house up to to my tree house,
which was 100 yards up in the woods.
I applied to Pratt and I got in.
That January, I moved down to New York and went to Pratt.
And it was interesting because when I got there,
the World Trade Center was under construction.
And from my dorm out in Brooklyn,
you could see the Two Towers coming up.
The World Trade Center buildings,
each building was compared,
somebody from the New York Times I think said
the World Trade Center looks like the box
that the Empire State Building came in,
but it was fascinating and they were always lit up,
even at night and there was cranes on top
and there was such activity.
So it was fun.
You know, we got to watch that go up.
Little did we know what was waiting for us in the future.
- What's striking about Bill is that
even though he lost his best friend
and went through some tough times,
he was fortunate enough to be able to pull out of it.
Not everybody does.
- You know, I met Frank.
I met Frank de Martini at Pratt.
He was one of the first guys I met.
For some reason, I just fell in with him
and the two of us really, really hit it off.
We were popular in the community.
Lots of people knew us and work just came out of the sky.
You know, we had lived through the bombing of 1993,
which was actually Frank's entry into the whole realm
of the World Trade Center.
Frank kind of walked me through what that damage was
and how robust the structure of the building was.
There were redundancies beyond belief.
He was a big fan of the History Channel
and he said why hasn't there been a history
of the World Trade Center on the History Channel?
That's gotta be something.
So he, I can't remember the woman's name,
but he contacted this woman and they worked
and worked and worked and they finally produced it.
- The building probably could sustain
multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure
is like the mosquito netting on your screen door.
And the jet plane is just a pencil
puncturing that screen netting.
- Wow.
Good to hear his voice.
When he made that statement,
he was working for Leslie E. Robertson,
one of the designers, one of the structural engineers
who designed that structure.
He had, believe me, Frank was as bad as me
when came to understanding how things work.
So, you know, I know he had many conversations
with Leslie about how the building went together.
You know, how it was designed
to withstand all manner of loads, of dynamic loads.
That's what they call a plane hitting the building,
or a wind hitting the building.
- My kids were asking me about 9/11
and it's really hard to talk about it and explain it.
And I was curious to what they'd pick up on,
you know, and is it a scary thing?
- I can't believe it's almost 20 years.
- I can't either. - It seems like yesterday.
I was not in a good place in my life.
I had spent some time with Frank
and that was the good part.
I had lost my job and my marriage was not in a good place.
You know, I just things were...
I was down and out.
There was some excitement in my life,
and I was nervous because Frank and I
were about to go into business together.
And it was funny because Frank, for the longest time,
had tried to get me to help him
get out of the World Trade Center.
You know, my day to day life was, was going down
to this high rise in in Long Branch, New Jersey
and working on an apartment.
And, you know, Frank was going to work
at the Trade Center.
You know, I was an early riser and I got up at six o'clock.
It was about a hour and a half, hour and 45 minute drive,
and as I came around the corner,
off of route 80 and onto I-95,
that's where the World Trade Center comes into view
and the North Tower looked like a chimney.
So I dialed up Frank and it went to voicemail
and I dialed him again and it went to voicemail.
It just kept, I couldn't get him.
- We were supposed to have dinner with Frank.
- I remember. - The three of us.
- Yeah.
- We ere supposed to have dinner.
- Our father-daughter dinner was going to be
our father-daughter-uncle dinner.
I panicked.
I just continued south and went to Long Branch,
went to the job.
When they told me that the South tower had collapsed,
I was shocked.
I was like, that's impossible.
- Yeah.
- Get ready for the big one.
- The tower just collapsed.
- The whole thing collapsed?
- Yeah, it's collapsed.
- What do you mean the whole thing just collapsed?
- It collapsed, I'm watching it live.
- I didn't know what to think of it. I really didn't.
You know, we all went in, everybody went into shock.
It was just the most bizarre...
I mean, it was, it was like an out-of-body experience.
I was just consumed with worry about Frank, you know?
And I didn't even think about Nicole.
- Hello, you've reach Nicole de Martini.
Please leave a message.
- Hi, Nicole. It's Bill.
Hey, listen, I'm up in Fort Greene Park
trying to find Frank's bench and his trees,
and there's a bench nearby, but it's dedicated to people
who passed away from COVID-19.
Thanks, Nicole.
And he used to live right up the street at 11-A,
South Elliot Place.
But we planted trees just like these.
They were just like these, you know,
because there was nothing left
of the people that perished, you know?
I think Bobby McIlvaine, at least they got his body.
You know, he was one of the very few.
Most people just disappeared.
From the Prison Ship Martyr's Monument,
when you stand at the base of the monument,
you can look out-
There she is.
Hi, Nicole.
- Hi, Bill. How are you?
- I'm good. How are you?
- We didn't put in a bench.
They didn't allow us. They were very strict.
They were like, you can't put in a bench.
- Do you remember exactly when that was
that we did that planting for Frank's memorial?
- Maybe 2003.
- That's what I'm thinking, the spring of '03.
- Big pine trees that
are right next to the tennis court.
- Across the walk?
- Yeah.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I see them now. - Yeah.
- And they've planted some new, smaller ones now
that have fences around them. - Yes, exactly, yes.
Yes, so there are a few more that were planted later.
Right after that, but they really take good care of them.
- Yeah.
This is for Frank, too.
Wow.
- Yeah, the crab apples were for Frank, too, but-
- It's got some fruit on it.
- Say hi to Shelly.
- I will.
Well, we're here, and this is it.
This crab apple is hers...
Or his. That pine is his.
And that spruce was one of them.
I mean, it's not everybody that can say
they got trees planted in one in New York City's
most famous parks in their honor.
The guy that Nina was trying to convince
at the parks department was very strict.
He said Frederick Law Olmsted never designed the park
to have benches all over the place
and that doesn't make sense to me.
But anyway, it was the excuse that was given.
It's almost like the excuses that were given to, um,
to us as to what happened to those Towers.
Just excuses.
I didn't really start to think about the mechanics.
You know, here I am, the guy that likes
to know how things work.
I didn't really start to think about that for five years.
Straight ahead.
I'll never set foot in that Freedom Tower.
That's not my cup of tea.
I call it the blood building.
A lot of people died to put that there.
Unnecessarily.
But I took my books, I took my toys, I took my tools,
I took my grandfather clock and I took my car and I left.
You know, I came up here.
I put everything in storage
and I moved into this little cottage here
and didn't know what to do.
I didn't know what to do.
And this is where, in this cottage,
is where I found architects and engineers for 9/11 Truth.
And I look at it as this is what I do for Frank.
This is what, not just for me.
I mean, it's a lot for me and Frank is gone
and nothing's going to bring him back.
He's history.
You know, when those explosives tore that building apart,
it tore the people apart, too.
So the saving grace is that Frank didn't feel a thing.
You know, he just disappeared.
- Because so many people didn't get bodies, nothing.
And we actually got a full, not a full body,
but we got a body to take home and bury.
And we, you know, we're so grateful for that.
Hundreds of parts they would get from the body.
And they just said I don't want it anymore.
We can't take this anymore.
They would get, you know, every week they get a call,
we found, you know, an elbow, we found a thumb or something.
And we have a relatively sound body
that we got to take home, and that,
you know went home and buried him in a week.
So it was Tuesday, a week after 9/11 we buried him,
or it might have been sometime that week.
Our dogs are buried out there
so I go to Bobby, put the flowers out there
and that's, I've been doing that for 20 years now.
Oh good, they just cut the place.
- They what? They, yeah.
I can tell, really.
- Can you just move that?
- Hey, Bobby.
- Look at that.
They cleaned it up for us around the edges.
- Yeah. Usually they leave the grass there.
He'd love the yellow and purple flowers.
- Yeah.
All right, I'm going to go up
and clean the bench, all right?
- I'm just going to sit.
- Not while I'm cleaning it. That's silly.
- Yes, I'm going to sit and just think about Bobby.
Clean away.
- Just get this stuff out.
- Where are those stones from?
- Well mostly from Ground Zero and Japan,
but I've added stones.
- I know this didn't come from Japan.
We would've never been able to carry it.
- We did two stone walks.
I think we did, no, maybe three stone walks.
One in Korea, Nagasaki to Hiroshima.
We pushed a 2000 pound stone
and on the way, where it's talking about anti-war,
that 9/11 were not, we think war is the wrong decision.
The monks, the Buddhist monks, pushed with us.
And we're talking days at a time.
I mean, talking about how friendly
you can get after days.
I mean, if I was a religious person,
I would become a monk tomorrow.
All right.
- Now, can we sit for a minute?
- Yeah, you can sit. - You're gonna stand?
- No.
Okay, we did it, Bobaloo. - It looks beautiful.
Look at the flowers.
It's like yesterday or a thousand miles back,
a thousand years back. - Seems like a thousand years.
- Yeah.
Sometimes it feels like yesterday afternoon.
- What is not considered often
is the other victims of 9/11,
like the 30,000 soldiers that were involved
in the war since 9/11 who have killed themselves,
the 7,000 that have died,
and all the people that are handicapped and disabled,
as well as all the first responders
that are getting sick and dying.
- That's America's world.
- Well that's the answer.
- Well America has got to change.
America has got to grow up.
The people of America have got to grow up.
They've got to get out of this they would never mentality.
You know, if they would never, then, you know,
they would never lie about the environmental impact
of 9/11 causing upwards of 70,000
9/11 first responders to become sick and dying.
This government is more than capable of anything.
Anything.
- That's why I've gone in the history.
History is so important to me
because we've been doing this bullshit forever.
- And you know, we're saying that we're leaving Afghanistan,
but how many mercenaries,
how many thousands are we still leaving there?
You know, it's disgusting.
- And we've been dealing with these,
we've dealt with Bin Laden fro 20 years
and then suddenly he becomes,
in '98 becomes the boogeyman, the bad guy.
The people that were in Iran-Contra, Lee Hamilton,
in '92, '93 had hearings on it and he dismissed everything.
It got it off the books.
And guess what?
Who's leading the 9/11 Commission? Lee Hamilton.
So if you put all these together, you know, it's bad news.
It really is bad news
and it's a horrible, horrible cover up.
- That was presented to the world
as the definitive account of 9/11 .
First of all, they only answered 30% of the family's
well-researched questions.
- There's so many things- - Of course.
- By choice, by design, and that keeps us
discussing back and forth, back and forth.
- Exactly.
Which is why I can't say definitively
that I know what happened on 9/11.
I couldn't tell you one way or the other
what happened to those buildings.
That is where the majority
of the people were murdered that day.
There are family members that still question
how those buildings came down
and as long as it's an important question to them,
it will always be an important question to me.
- And I spent so much time talking about how he died
and the thing is I'm sick of getting emotional.
Okay, I really am.
And I, you know, I really want to talk about
who helped kill Bobby.
We have enough for Jack?
- Yeah.
I guess I could grab a Gerber Daisy out of there.
Okay, let's go.
- All right? - Yeah
- All right.
All right, Bobaloo. Love you.
See you next week.
We went to a psychologist immediately.
He said, but look at it this way,
just put a silver dollar or a half dollar
in front of your eye like this.
Okay?
And he says, you know, that's right there.
It's in your face and it's going to stay in your face.
But eventually it just starts moving away.
And as that moves away, then you can see over here,
you can see over here, but it's still there,
but eventually it moves further out.
Then you can see this way, you can see this way,
but it's still there.
And eventually it keeps moving out, and it's the truth.
You know, we can laugh now, we have fun things,
but it's always there.
- Gotta respond to West Street
because we've got some very burned bad,
badly burned victims in building one, the lobby.
- At West Street?
- Yeah, West Street side. - Okay.
- All right, thank you.
- Hopefully we just sort of drop out
because I don't want to sit and argue with people.
I just think it speaks for itself.
You know, obviously we know he's dead, right?
So, you know, I have this.
So a doctor confirming and not confirming it, you know,
it doesn't mean anything to me.
You know, a medical professional,
say you're a medical professional.
I come up to you and say, this is 9/11.
He's probably scared to death to say one thing or another.
- Cyril H. Wecht.
I am a forensic pathologist and a medical legal consultant.
I was the coroner of Allegheny County, Pittsburgh
and 129 surrounding municipalities for 20 years,
two separate 10 year periods.
Since 1957, I would estimate I have performed
about 21,000 autopsies.
I have reviewed, signed off or supervised
on about 41,000 other autopsies.
When I was asked to review the Warren Commission report,
it was in August of that year that I pointed out
that the president's brain was missing.
Others knew about it, but no one had said a word.
And so, anyway, so these are the things that I do,
all of these consultations and these autopsies
and then occasionally, you know,
the major national controversial case.
Abrasions.
Oh, much of the face is marked here as missing.
They blocked everything, expect the lower face,
is blocked off.
Unfortunately they don't describe
the remaining portion of the skull
to permit me to determine whether it looked like
that which is missing had blown off
as opposed to having been crushed.
Most of head. Yeah, I'm right.
Absent, most of head.
So what is it that the father wants to know?
Okay. And the body was found when?
- He was found shortly after
the North Tower was struck.
- And he was in front of, near the lobby.
Like entering the lobby.
- Well then it had to be from some kind of
an explosive effect.
- Normally the way it works is
if you have a family member that's murdered,
you call the police and the police do an investigation
and you trust the authorities to be thorough,
to care and to want to get to the truth.
And you don't have to go petition.
It's not the proper role a citizen should have to take
is to force the government to do an investigation,
but apparently that is what's required.
- All right.
It's another day.
- Here, come.
We're at Point Mountain Reserve.
Every 9/11, I go for a hike to remember my mom.
It's better for me, you know,
instead of going to a church or memorial.
You know, I just like to be by myself,
you know, with the ones that I love
and that's how I deal with things.
I've been to the site a number of times
but I've never been to the museum.
My sister invited me.
I really have no want or need to go there.
I find it probably mostly depressing.
She confirmed my suspicions.
She said it was great to do once,
but probably would never do it again.
20 years is really just a number.
I know for most people who don't
deal with it every day, you know, 20 years is a big deal.
But same thing year in, year out for me.
Having kids and not having
my mom here has been pretty tough.
I just really wish my kids had a chance to meet her.
And there's not many people I feel that are willing to do
what I'm doing right now just to kind of
keep the victim's memories alive as well as, you know,
hopefully get down to the bottom of the things.
I think we need more sense of community in this country
and I think 9/11 did that for a little bit
and then tapered off.
So as long as people start to think for themselves
and just, you know, hold the ones dear to them close
and just have fun and don't take themselves so seriously,
I think the world would be a better place.
- We need to get some flowers in London.
- I've got them, yeah. - Have you got them with you?
- Everything ready, yes. - In that little bag?
- Yes.
- You know, we take his random thought.
- Yes.
- We call it 9/11.
- Yeah. - But you know, that's weird.
- I know, and in fact-
- But would you ever call it 11/9?
It just...
- No, no.
- Does it have a significance 20 years?
I mean, it's just one of those things,
it's like, so different to any anniversary.
It's kind of, you know. - Yes, of course.
- And for anything, it could be a wedding anniversary.
It could be, you know, it's a strange thing to give.
Why does the 19th anniversary have
any less importance than than the 20th to nothing?
Uh, where's the queue?
Oh, there is no queue.
But it's not a grave or anything.
- No, but I wanted to say that after
coming for 15 years I stopped coming because...
- Why did you stop coming?
- Because.
When I stopped going after, I suppose about 15 years
because I felt it difficult because so many people
have not had their loved ones identified
and we've had a number of things come over.
- I remember the flurry of emails
and letters that were going around
when this was being proposed and designed.
- Every year, September 11th,
for the first 15 years, I used to come.
You had to arrange in advance
whether you wanted to read out a family member,
but you sometimes have to read a couple of other people
depending on how many came.
And that's really lovely.
- Can you read that, mom?
- "Time is too slow for those who wait."
I'd like to lay our roses here if we could, yes?
Okay. - Put one down from Robin,
and then I'll do dad's and ours, yeah?
Yeah. - I can't quite reach it.
Can you, Matthew? - Oh, here.
- "Always I'll be in your heart.
Don't forget my soul is near you
and so we'll never be apart."
And this is from your friends at Risk Waters,
which is rather poignant.
That's very worse on that fateful day.
Keep that on my sideboard next to Geoff's picture.
Where is it there's supposed to be a remnant of...
Is it the metal? It's the metal, isn't it?
- Yeah, no.
So the Memorial stone is carved by hand
and includes an extract from the American poet,
Henry Van Dyke, underneath it preserved in resin
lies a section of the steel girder salvaged from
the World Trade Center. - Salvaged, yes I knew it was.
I thought it would be in that top part there.
- Pick it up and test it for explosive residues.
All right, mom, should we head out?
- I think so.
- Yeah? - I'll go get my bag.
- Oh, it's in the walk about.
- With me, I mean, obviously I grieve my Geoff,
but I felt well, Geoff wouldn't want
to see me in the corner crying all the time.
Yes, I just thought, well,
I want Geoff to see that I am going on with life
and I am continued to be the happy person I always was,
a nan, you know, so that's what helped me through.
I know Matthew and Robert had a lot, a lot,
a lot of struggles, but that's the way it is.
We're several individuals
and we deal with things differently.
- When it takes decades to get some semblance of justice,
it's always through the never-ending fights
that it just seems so wrong that family members
have to pursue in order to get some sort of justice.
One of the things that I've always personally found
to be quite striking is the degree
of fragmentation of the remains.
- The title of this report is
"Human identification following
the World Trade Center disaster:
assessing management practices
for highly fragmented and commingled human remains."
- So out of the 2,600 odd who died
at the World Trade Center,
you know, there's 22,000 fragments.
- Medical examiner personnel were initially caught off guard
by the degree of destruction and fragmentation
of the recovered human remains.
- 5,00 of those 22,000 fragments
are smaller than an inch.
It's 1100 and something people have not been identified.
That's a huge, you can't even fathom Geoff's remains,
no more than two, three-percent of his body,
it's actually the last remain identified in May 2013.
This fragment that's still in New York
was actually given a location.
It's just south of the North Tower.
It's between 18 and 41 meters away from the South Tower.
Okay, it's not the kind of two or 300 meters distance
that some remains were found.
There's a horrendous map that I think
the fire brigade prepared and they, you know,
they'd tag whether it's a civilian, firefighter, et cetera,
but there is one that just tags human remains
and it's awful.
You've got the two footprints of the Towers
and there's just this huge spread of remains
that were once people.
Okay, well we know the steel beams were propelled out
with huge forces, but the actual physical stuff
that I care about, people and my brother,
were ejected outside of the footprints.
And it's just, it's so unpleasant thinking about it,
but I've since read a lot that has been published
about the search to try and identify people
is this concept of commingling.
- The explosive force that blew over firetrucks
and peeled stone facades from buildings
also disintegrated human bodies,
turning bones into flying shrapnel.
The tidal wave of debris that carried human remains
blocks away, depositing them,
in some cases on top of buildings,
also fused soft tissue into bone fragments.
- And that basically means the impact
of the force of the explosion,
you know, not just the pancake collapse, whatever,
has actually mingled remains into my brother.
And so the only explanation she could give me was
they couldn't get a clear single DNA match
in those remains so I just got this horrible vision
of other people's remains being removed
from my brother's face.
It was just, yeah.
- That's not going to happen from crushing.
A building collapses and two or more people are crushed.
I can't envision a situation in which the soft tissue
of one victim is hurled with such force
as to become embedded into,
attached to a bony fragment of another victim.
I can't envision that.
- And one of the things I've always pondered about is,
you know, okay, there's all massive degree of fragmentation.
Some people, nothing found at all,
but you also had fairly large parts of people being found.
I mean, there was one guy at the inquest,
same floor as my brother, 86% of his body was found.
I am not going to say it was, but you know,
he was one of the, in fact, two family members
that actually bothered attending.
I mean, there you go.
But he's just there going, I don't, I don't understand why,
because everyone kept being read out, you know,
small fragments, all this two percent,
and he's sitting there going how?
And then for me, you know,
the unpleasant conclusion I've drawn
is his proximity to explosives
so if you were very close to the explosives,
there's not a lot left of you.
That's something I've always thought about,
but that's quite a dark topic to kind of touch on
or thought to have, even.
- This is a strange situation.
I hope that the architects and engineers
and others who have studied this horrible tragedy
and who have expressed their opinions
will be given the opportunity to testify in public.
I hope that happens and I'm amazed
that it has not yet happened.
- I've been holding a vision in my head
of standing outside this building
after successfully getting the authority
from the attorney general.
It's that it's not the coroner's court,
but it's that important step after the attorney general.
You know, exciting is the wrong word, but it's like,
you know, we're actually at this point right now
where I know that, you know, myself and mom
and hopefully dad and Rob will be going up to London
and actually submitting this to the attorney general.
- Do you want to wear your hat now, love?
- No.
- You do.
- Are you going to wear a hat?
- Only for the photo.
- You want me to sit,
or are you sitting there, mom?
- Let's assume that the attorney general
grants his authority.
An order will go to the high court
to quash the provincial inquest and to open a new one.
The high court typically sides with what
the attorney general has decided.
So, you know, we're hopeful
that once the attorney general says yes,
grants his authority,
it should be a formality for the case to be pushed
to the West London coroner's court.
And I think the question then would be
after the courts trial, the court case,
how I feel then, and, you know,
it's been hard, hard work over a year
to get everything together to actually come to this day.
A couple of weeks before the 20th anniversary,
you know, it's a massive achievement.
I went to the Reinvestigate 9/11 meeting
that was being held in London
and it was the first time I was actually interacting
and actually seeing people who, you know, were like me.
Didn't believe the official narrative
of what we've been told.
So, yeah, I mean, 'cause in the early days
it was really just me. - Well of course, yes.
- I started going slightly insane
in the early years, you know.
I was still dealing with depression and you know,
I basically had a huge eureka.
I just felt I was able to actually go public properly
and you know, I guess talk about stuff.
And I was kind of inspired by the speakers
that were at Reinvestigate 9/11
and I thought, well, I can surely do something
because I'm a family member and you know I lost someone.
I think that all of us together as applicants,
it helps the case, I guess, to a certain extent.
All right, we want to go to 54 Douty Street.
- Douty? - Douty Street.
- And Evie Devie, that's Henry.
- Hi. Hug, hug?
The place is like a ghost town.
I mean, it goes all the way back
and have a lot of space so if you want
to get a meeting room there, I'm sure.
- We're waiting for Ian Henshall to turn up.
- You know, you can't predict the future,
but this could be the moment that changed everything.
You know, I'm not 100% optimistic about that,
but it could be.
If you don't even try, then you've lost to start with,
and how much Matt's tried,
I mean, this is just like Matt's day today.
- Well, today's the culmination
of a lot of hard work by a lot of people.
Where it goes beyond here, who's to say,
we'll find out, I guess, in probably a few months.
- In this box, we have just shy of 3000 pages.
This is a cover letter to the attorney general.
Eye witness statements from first responders
who were there when, you know, the three towers collapsed.
You know, these first responders who are willing
to support our application, but also in court,
they're prepared to be cross-examined as witnesses.
Yeah, I'm hopeful that we can actually change
the verdicts of what caused my brother's death,
that it was explosives that ultimately killed him.
If the senior coroner, at the Westland coroner's court
looks at our application, decides it has enough merit
to reopen my brother's inquest,
he can sign that consent order
and it will speed things up tremendously.
And, you know, we could be talking months
instead of years to actually get this stuff into court.
When I looked at Geoff's remains, you know, for me,
I wasn't really looking at my brother.
I mean, for me, the physical form,
the 3D form of Geoff is gone.
That doesn't mean he's not, you know,
in the stardust and around us all the time, you know?
- Yes, well, this is one of my favorite photos of Geoff.
If you can see here that he's got his blue spotty tie
and after Geoff had died,
we went back to the flat and I asked Caroline
I'd love to take something back of Geoff's
and I asked if I could have his spotty tie.
He called it his lucky tie.
I like to think of happy thoughts of Geoff.
I know there's a lot of sadness and that, but yes,
I like to go forward thinking it could make a difference.
He worked in London.
I think it was the Abbey National,
and it was the time when there were bomb scares going off.
And in fact at Barclaycard we had various drills
and things like that.
And he said to me, do you know, mom,
you can just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Always thought of Maureen and the three boys,
and in fact, I've been given a lovely bracelet
from Matthew and Mel with the three signs,
the three stones from the three boys.
And if anyone asked me how many children you've got,
I always say three.
I think you should be proud
of all your efforts and Geoff.
- Yeah. - I hope so.
- I'm sure dad is, too, in his own way.
- So I have hope.
I think at this stage, it's too premature
for me to be thinking too far in the future.
You know, the application has been submitted,
where it leads after that, I don't know,
but I'm just pleased we're here,
it's submitted and we'll see what the future brings.
My wife's always said she sees me,
you know, has visions of me outside the high court
and we've, you know, we've got it there.
She can't really see further than that,
but she just has this vision.
She likes me wearing a shirt occasionally,
which I've done today.
You know, she just she sees me outside the court.
You know?
Am I going to get a haircut?
Um, no, I'm going to keep my hair. It's growing on me.
Be fun just to annoy mom, you know.
She prefers me wearing a hat these days,
but no, I like my hair.
It's still that a little bit towards the system
and my frustration, but now it's growing on me.
I'm going to keep it.
- How should I put this?
Yeah, of course governments lie. It's their job.
But it makes you very cynical about the world.
In my view, quite rightly so.
- Our country took the wrong tact.
They didn't investigate 9/11 thoroughly
and I think it's caused us to live in fear
of something that we didn't fully understand.
- I can't remember who said it.
Somebody said, you know, World War III
will be fought with the most incredible technology,
with the most incredible weapons of war
and World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
And I believe it.
- Thomas Merton had a phrase that he coined
called the unspeakable.
Evil so awful and almost unimaginable
that it defied the ability of words to capture it.
It's a void that exists
even before uttering the unspeakable.
Well, the void would be not talking about 9/11.
That if we don't deal with it, then we can't correct it.
The story can only last so long,
however enduring the seams,
that lies always need protecting, the truth doesn't.
- Let me start again. Right?
God, this is like fucking outtakes.
Ridiculous, right?
- Do you mind us being...
You know, quite frankly, emotional.
- It's great to feel peaceful.
Everyone just wants to feel peaceful,
but I can't do it anymore, but I'm able to balance it.
I'm angry. I'm always angry.
I'm angry at this country.
- I just want to try to do the right thing.
That's all I would say.
- Never really exposed my feelings
publicly like this in this venue,
but I'm doing it because...
I want to.