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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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You’re tuned to the Zimbabwe

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00:00:24,233 --> 00:00:26,402
Broadcasting Corporation
Radio 1.

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And here is
a special announcement.

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If anyone has video footage
of the meteorite showers–or

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whatever they were–please
get in touch with

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00:00:33,535 --> 00:00:37,122
Tim Leach of BBC Television
very urgently.

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BBC Television News.

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I was not so frightened
in the war zones

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of Angola or Rwanda
as I was when this story hit.

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Hundreds of people today
phoned the ZBC

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and BBC correspondent in Harare
saying they sighted

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an unidentified
flying object last night.

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These things were flying
in a pattern

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and there was no sound.

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No wings, no nothing.
Shiny oval thing.

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Hello?

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Hello, my name’s Tim Leach
from BBC Television News.

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I understand that you,
you had some strange experience.

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Yes, that’s right.

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It was a bright, radiant light.

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I’ve never seen anything
like it in my life.

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It was the absence
of noise I didn’t like.

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There has been much excitement
after hundreds of people

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have reported seeing
a mysterious bright object.

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We suddenly looked up
and we saw this thing

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coming over the top of the hill.

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As it sort of
came abreast of us,

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it suddenly changed
from this glow to,

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to let’s say
two big red-orange balls.

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No sound.

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Look.

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It’s going.
Is that what a meteorite does?

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No way. No way.
It’s incredible.

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Eyewitnesses say it had
a bright light at the front

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and flew at great speed.

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The object was also seen by two
international airline pilots

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00:02:01,705 --> 00:02:05,125
who reported it to air traffic
control at Johannesburg Airport.

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There were three of us
that saw it,

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myself, the copilot,
and the pilot

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in another aircraft.

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South Africa’s top
meteorologist says

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there’s no rational explanation
for the bright light

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and it could be one
of the most widely reported

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00:02:17,013 --> 00:02:19,557
unidentified flying objects
in recent time.

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None of it made sense.
So I phoned the BBC in London

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and I said,"What is this
meteorite shower?"

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And they said,
"No, no, no, no, no,

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it’s got not nothing to do with,
with Africa or Zimbabwe.

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The meteorites come down
in an arc;

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they don’t fly parallel
to the earth."

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"What about the,

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the, the, this Russian debris
that’s coming down?"

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"No. That doesn’t work either.
Um, sorry." Well, what is this?

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Viewers with more information
can either contact

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00:02:48,377 --> 00:02:51,505
the ZBC or BBC in Harare.

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For at least three
or four days,

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people from all over Zimbabwe
were phoning us at the BBC

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to say,
"We’ve seen something weird."

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It was a helicopter or a what?
No, no.

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It was just a big, round ball.
The bottom was flat,

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but it was round like
the top of my wall by my house.

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And then I got this call
from Ariel School, Ruwa,

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that the children had seen
this UFO landing

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and these funny men in,
in body-clinging suits,

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black suits.
Uh, weird.

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I went roaring out there
in the car with my sound man.

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Ariel School,

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19th September ’94,
12:12 local time.

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Could you tell me
what you saw on, on Friday?

72
00:04:04,828 --> 00:04:07,707
Well, it’s, it was just
glinting in the trees

73
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and this, like, there was a man
and he walked towards us

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and he walked back again.

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And what did he look like?

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His, his face was like this
and his eyes were down here.

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Like, what,
further down his face?

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00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:22,388
Yeah. Much further
down than us,

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because our eyes are here
and his are down.

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You don’t think it was
somebody in fancy dress

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doing a prank or something?
- No.

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And how tall about?

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About say there.
Sitting on the spaceship.

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00:04:32,898 --> 00:04:34,275
How did you know
it was a spaceship?

85
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It wasn’t a helicopter
or something like that?

86
00:04:35,735 --> 00:04:36,943
No.

87
00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:38,237
Well, it looked like it
was like,

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like a disc, like a round...

89
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And whereabouts was it?
It was in the trees.

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In the trees over there,
between the big pole.

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00:04:47,413 --> 00:04:49,332
And did you girls
see that as well?

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Yes.
Yes.

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We asked them to draw pictures
of what they saw on Friday

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00:04:55,547 --> 00:04:57,257
and after looking at those,

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I definitely feel
that they did see something.

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00:05:01,177 --> 00:05:02,762
What do you
think that was?

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00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:08,433
I agree that it could be
something that we, um,

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00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:10,018
are not common with.

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00:05:11,228 --> 00:05:13,313
But to actually say
that it was a UFO,

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I would be, uh, reluctant
to make a decision like that.

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All the other journalists
in Harare

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were not taking this seriously.

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But I took it seriously
because this story

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got bigger and bigger
and bigger and bigger and...

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I need to know what was,
what was going on.

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Who do I talk to?

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And then I spoke
to some contacts

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and they put me in touch
with Cynthia Hind,

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the person for UFOs in Zimbabwe.

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That Cynthia Hind’s coming out

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and I believe she bringing
a Geiger counter.

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She did mention it
on the telephone.

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I think we’ll wait until she
comes and see what happens then.

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Just come and sit
on these chairs along here.

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All right,
these are the grade sevens,

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the oldest children here
at the school

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who say they saw something.

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Did you all see something?
Yes.

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What’s your name?

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I, I, I’m Daniel Mandy and,
and I saw this,

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this silver thing in,
in amongst this clump of,

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of trees with this one thing
sitting on, on, on the side and,

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and another thing sort of
like running up

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and down the, the top.

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It had a, a long top

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and it then it was flat
like that along the sides.

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What was around the sides?

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Just a, um, sort of like
a platform coming down the side.

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Platform.
Did you see anything else?

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Yes. We saw a black man
running around. Just...

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A little man or what?

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From where we looked,
he was about this small,

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but we were quite a way away.
So he was about our-size.

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What did you see?

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I saw something silver
on the ground amongst the trees

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and a person in black.
And that’s all I saw.

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You saw a person
alongside the silver thing?

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Yes.

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Have you heard about UFOs
before this?

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No.

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You didn’t know anything
about it?

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00:07:00,463 --> 00:07:02,340
So it was something
quite new to you?

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00:07:02,340 --> 00:07:03,715
- Yes.
- Were you afraid?

144
00:07:03,715 --> 00:07:05,092
Yes.

145
00:07:05,092 --> 00:07:06,968
Nobody should panic.
We don’t know what it is...

146
00:07:06,968 --> 00:07:08,178
No, not at all.

147
00:07:08,178 --> 00:07:10,138
...and it could be
just some...

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00:07:10,765 --> 00:07:15,018
There was Russian satellite
went up on the 27th of August

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and it’s possibility
something came down.

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00:07:17,438 --> 00:07:20,733
But it would not account
for the figure you saw.

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But I think for moment,
you should keep everybody away

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until we’ve had some analysis,
you know, of what’s going on.

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It was in between the gap
of this one building,

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behind this pile of dirt.

155
00:07:37,792 --> 00:07:39,918
Yes, I can see that.

156
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Where did they think it was?

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They, they told it was in
between these two poles here.

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In between these two poles?
Yeah.

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Gunther, can you try
the Geiger first?

160
00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:54,433
Yeah, OK.
Do you want me to hold it?

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What equipment
have you brought with you?

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Well, Gunther is a highly
technical chap

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and because it’s difficult and
very expensive in this country,

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he’s made he’s made
his own Geiger counter.

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We’re going to check it out

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and see if there’s
any radioactivity there.

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If there’s really some changes
the Geiger would

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00:08:13,995 --> 00:08:16,622
be going faster.
But, um...

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So is this just normal
background radiation?

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00:08:19,458 --> 00:08:21,502
Yeah, this is about normal.

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Yeah, I was helping Cynthia
out more on technical terms.

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So Cynthia found me quite useful

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in maybe explaining away
certain phenomena.

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Maybe it was a certain time
of the year

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where certain meteorologic
events occurred,

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like the Leonid meteor shower
or the Perseid meteor shower.

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So we used to try to eliminate
all the natural events

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00:08:45,483 --> 00:08:46,943
that might be happening
in the sky

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before we thought maybe there
might be something more to it.

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00:08:51,115 --> 00:08:52,783
But how skeptical are you?

181
00:08:53,450 --> 00:08:58,330
Well, I would like to see
some evidence.

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00:08:58,372 --> 00:09:00,457
You don’t think it would be
appropriate at the moment to...

183
00:09:00,457 --> 00:09:01,750
No. I haven’t.

184
00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:04,212
But from what I see
from some of the children,

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I do believe
that something happened.

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00:09:07,088 --> 00:09:09,008
I’m not all that gullible.

187
00:09:09,008 --> 00:09:11,385
But this to me
is a very typical case

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00:09:11,385 --> 00:09:14,847
and I’ve handled several
hundreds in southern Africa.

189
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I certainly believe
the children.

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00:09:17,808 --> 00:09:20,687
There’s some extremely
interesting pictures

191
00:09:20,687 --> 00:09:22,480
and there’s certainly
some of the things that tell me

192
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,648
they couldn’t have known about.
Impossible.

193
00:09:30,487 --> 00:09:32,948
I can remember it like it
was yesterday.

194
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,620
It was easy to put down, because
that’s exactly what I had seen.

195
00:09:38,787 --> 00:09:43,333
So, you know, it’s something
that I’ll never, ever forget.

196
00:09:46,212 --> 00:09:49,590
In ’94 I was in grade 2
at the time at Ariel.

197
00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:52,092
My teacher was Mrs. Chipo.

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00:09:52,552 --> 00:09:56,347
What I can remember was we were
playing around in the,

199
00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:58,848
in the playground area.

200
00:09:58,848 --> 00:10:00,852
It was one of those
rare occasions when the teachers

201
00:10:00,852 --> 00:10:02,978
were having a staff meeting,
so it was quite a long break.

202
00:10:02,978 --> 00:10:06,190
We were happy to have those
because there was more playtime.

203
00:10:06,190 --> 00:10:08,150
And there was, like,
a flash of light.

204
00:10:08,858 --> 00:10:13,030
And it was bright, bright silver
and everything. It shot past.

205
00:10:14,532 --> 00:10:16,617
At the time, I mean,
I remember it well.

206
00:10:16,658 --> 00:10:20,747
We were on the field playing our
football and a friend of mine,

207
00:10:20,747 --> 00:10:23,748
Vimbai, said, "Hey, Luke,
do you see that in the sky?

208
00:10:23,748 --> 00:10:25,333
What is that? What is that?"

209
00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:27,378
So I was looking up
and I saw it.

210
00:10:27,378 --> 00:10:30,505
And it was for want of
a better word, you know, a UFO.

211
00:10:30,505 --> 00:10:31,965
I wasn’t sure what it was.

212
00:10:31,965 --> 00:10:34,843
But it was a silver object
that was in the sky.

213
00:10:34,843 --> 00:10:36,970
And we were both, like,
looking at it.

214
00:10:36,970 --> 00:10:40,933
And I only saw it
for possibly a few seconds.

215
00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:43,310
And it seemed to,

216
00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:46,063
to move off a bit
and then suddenly vanished.

217
00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:49,317
And we were, were both sort of
standing there looking up,

218
00:10:49,358 --> 00:10:51,443
saying, you know,
"Geez, what was that?"

219
00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:54,155
But didn’t put too much
thought to it

220
00:10:54,155 --> 00:10:57,575
and obviously went straight back
to playing our football match.

221
00:10:57,575 --> 00:11:01,162
A few minutes later, there’s a
whole sort of commotion going on

222
00:11:01,162 --> 00:11:02,830
and there were
a whole bunch of kids

223
00:11:02,830 --> 00:11:05,082
down at the bottom
of the, the playground.

224
00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:10,503
We were sitting on one of
the logs that we always sat on,

225
00:11:10,503 --> 00:11:11,880
eating our lunch,

226
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,802
and I noticed that people
were pointing at this one thing,

227
00:11:16,385 --> 00:11:18,303
or something, in the bush.

228
00:11:18,303 --> 00:11:22,307
And I got up to see
what was going on

229
00:11:22,307 --> 00:11:24,977
because one person
actually started crying.

230
00:11:24,977 --> 00:11:26,312
And, you know, like I said,

231
00:11:26,312 --> 00:11:30,357
because we were the older group
on the playground,

232
00:11:30,357 --> 00:11:36,572
we all, people in my year,
um, just were kind of concerned

233
00:11:36,572 --> 00:11:38,198
about what was going on
with everyone else.

234
00:11:38,198 --> 00:11:40,533
There was a big group of kids
all sort of gathered at,

235
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,285
right at the bottom
of the playing field pointing

236
00:11:42,285 --> 00:11:44,538
and making a noise
and shouting and screaming.

237
00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:47,458
And I went up to sort of see
what was going on,

238
00:11:47,458 --> 00:11:50,710
try to, you know, um,
calm everybody down.

239
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:52,170
You know, and my initial thought

240
00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:53,422
was somebody had hurt
themselves or something.

241
00:11:53,838 --> 00:11:57,258
OK. So if I was there.

242
00:11:58,468 --> 00:12:01,388
So, say, a couple of hundred
meters up it was right there.

243
00:12:02,055 --> 00:12:04,725
So it seemed to be right
on the cross-country course.

244
00:12:05,225 --> 00:12:08,353
I remember seeing
two flashing lights.

245
00:12:08,353 --> 00:12:10,272
And I saw, like, a big silver,

246
00:12:11,565 --> 00:12:14,860
like a saucer kind of thing
that was hovering.

247
00:12:15,527 --> 00:12:18,988
And then it landed or hovered
on a, on a stone.

248
00:12:18,988 --> 00:12:27,413
And I saw two figures come out.
Really black, but their face,

249
00:12:27,457 --> 00:12:29,708
you could actually see
not much of their face,

250
00:12:29,708 --> 00:12:32,085
but it was really,
really white in color.

251
00:12:32,085 --> 00:12:35,088
The skin pigmentation
was very–I don’t,

252
00:12:35,088 --> 00:12:36,340
I don’t know how your can...

253
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:38,717
Pale doesn’t even, it,
it looked plastic.

254
00:12:39,343 --> 00:12:41,178
You know?
It looked like, uh,

255
00:12:41,178 --> 00:12:44,765
someone who had
too much, too much Botox.

256
00:12:44,765 --> 00:12:46,142
Now when I think about it,

257
00:12:46,142 --> 00:12:48,102
I’m like, that’s,
that’s exactly what...

258
00:12:48,102 --> 00:12:51,438
At the time I didn’t have
a color or word for it.

259
00:12:51,438 --> 00:12:53,523
Um, but that’s exactly
what it looked like.

260
00:12:53,523 --> 00:12:59,738
It was very smooth
and soft-looking.

261
00:12:59,738 --> 00:13:02,282
It looked like it,
you’d slide right off

262
00:13:02,323 --> 00:13:06,703
if you tried to touch him.
He had, just, yeah.

263
00:13:06,703 --> 00:13:08,747
I suddenly realized that it,

264
00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:10,875
that’s not,
he’s not quite normal.

265
00:13:11,458 --> 00:13:14,712
I didn’t actually know about
UFOs and aliens at the time.

266
00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:17,338
So I just thought
he was a strange person.

267
00:13:17,965 --> 00:13:21,885
But it was the eyes that,
that made him.

268
00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:26,098
So, that kind of shape.
I think the eyes were obviously

269
00:13:26,098 --> 00:13:28,642
a lot more fluid,
round, shiny, protruded.

270
00:13:29,685 --> 00:13:32,897
Almost like rugby balls
or America,

271
00:13:32,897 --> 00:13:34,940
you know, American footballs.

272
00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:36,900
Huge eyes on the,
on the side of his face.

273
00:13:37,652 --> 00:13:39,612
And so I looked over
and sort of thought

274
00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:41,655
I could see something unusual
going on in the bushes as well.

275
00:13:41,655 --> 00:13:43,573
And I was like, yeah, there is.
There’s got to be something.

276
00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:44,950
It looks like
there’s something there.

277
00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:46,660
And the realization that there
was something moving–and

278
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:49,330
it appeared to be
coming towards us as well–that,

279
00:13:49,330 --> 00:13:50,998
I felt scared at that point.

280
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,875
The panic spread.

281
00:13:54,502 --> 00:13:56,170
I was looking for my
for my brother and sister

282
00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:58,922
to make sure that they were OK.
And when I did have them,

283
00:13:58,922 --> 00:14:00,840
then we continued
to look onward.

284
00:14:01,717 --> 00:14:03,885
They just seemed confused.
Like, what is going on?

285
00:14:03,885 --> 00:14:06,055
One moment we’re playing,
next moment everybody’s looking,

286
00:14:06,055 --> 00:14:08,057
pointing and everybody’s
in a panic.

287
00:14:08,557 --> 00:14:10,267
That was a little bit scary.

288
00:14:14,980 --> 00:14:17,858
I just turned twenty eight.

289
00:14:19,443 --> 00:14:23,822
I ended a relationship.
I was engaged for six years.

290
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,202
You know, this whole topic
definitely weighed

291
00:14:28,202 --> 00:14:30,328
on our relationship.

292
00:14:32,748 --> 00:14:35,542
So I moved in with my folks.

293
00:14:36,502 --> 00:14:38,253
I’m thankful that
I’m here right now

294
00:14:38,253 --> 00:14:40,713
and with my family
who supports me.

295
00:14:44,552 --> 00:14:49,055
As for future goals,
plans, work, I have no idea.

296
00:14:53,143 --> 00:14:56,230
But I feel alone.

297
00:15:17,458 --> 00:15:19,962
"Dear Emily,
I hope this finds you well.

298
00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:24,007
As you may have seen
on our Facebook page, next month

299
00:15:24,007 --> 00:15:27,385
we will be celebrating
our 25th year as a school.

300
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,513
I know it’s short notice
coming from Canada,

301
00:15:30,722 --> 00:15:33,017
but we’d love
to have you join us.

302
00:15:33,183 --> 00:15:34,435
If you can’t make it,

303
00:15:34,477 --> 00:15:37,647
know that you are always welcome
to visit your old home.

304
00:15:37,647 --> 00:15:38,855
Love, Judy."

305
00:16:06,133 --> 00:16:08,260
It brings up a lot for me.

306
00:16:10,053 --> 00:16:13,223
It’s a reminder of pain,

307
00:16:14,223 --> 00:16:17,060
of holding something inside.

308
00:16:19,647 --> 00:16:23,067
I don’t want to hold
onto those feelings anymore.

309
00:16:45,755 --> 00:16:49,677
We haven’t got all day.
This lady and gentlemen

310
00:16:49,677 --> 00:16:52,137
are from South African
Broadcasting Corporation.

311
00:16:52,888 --> 00:16:54,807
They’ve come to talk
to some of you.

312
00:16:54,848 --> 00:16:56,767
Hi everybody. My name’s Nicki.

313
00:16:56,767 --> 00:16:58,977
OK, and that’s Ivan
with the camera.

314
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,438
And we’re going to actually
speak to a few of you

315
00:17:01,438 --> 00:17:03,523
who did see something that day

316
00:17:03,523 --> 00:17:06,735
and ask you what happened,
what you felt when you saw it

317
00:17:07,652 --> 00:17:08,903
and that sort of thing,
you know.

318
00:17:08,903 --> 00:17:10,197
So very, very casual.

319
00:17:10,197 --> 00:17:12,573
You must say exactly
what you want to say, OK?

320
00:17:13,117 --> 00:17:14,993
What were you doing
on the day?

321
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:20,832
Well, I was walking and I saw
this maroon color in the sky.

322
00:17:21,625 --> 00:17:24,252
And me and my friends
were following it.

323
00:17:24,837 --> 00:17:28,298
And then we saw this light
in the in the Msasa trees.

324
00:17:28,298 --> 00:17:32,510
Then I saw something shining
and somebody sitting on it.

325
00:17:33,220 --> 00:17:35,180
And they were wearing
pure black.

326
00:17:35,972 --> 00:17:40,310
We saw this black figure
running in a slow motion.

327
00:17:40,852 --> 00:17:42,270
The strange thing
was it seemed to be

328
00:17:42,270 --> 00:17:43,938
in very slow motion,

329
00:17:43,938 --> 00:17:45,690
which to us seemed
very interesting

330
00:17:45,690 --> 00:17:48,318
because Cynthia had come across
this kind of event

331
00:17:48,318 --> 00:17:50,487
in some of our other cases
around the world

332
00:17:50,487 --> 00:17:53,698
where she had reports of,
you know, alien encounters.

333
00:17:53,698 --> 00:17:55,117
Cynthia, how long

334
00:17:55,117 --> 00:17:57,452
have you been
investigating UFO phenomena?

335
00:17:57,452 --> 00:17:59,663
Well, about 17 years.

336
00:17:59,872 --> 00:18:05,460
I’m, I’m the continental
coordinator in Africa for MUFON.

337
00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:10,798
MUFON has over 5,000 members,
most of whom are scientists.

338
00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:14,470
You interviewed the children.
What was your conclusion?

339
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:15,970
I believe them.

340
00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:19,642
I believe they saw
what they said they saw.

341
00:18:19,642 --> 00:18:23,270
I think that perhaps some have
been influenced by others

342
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:26,565
and they’ve added a little bit
here and a little bit there,

343
00:18:26,565 --> 00:18:31,445
but basically they put, drew in
their drawings many things

344
00:18:31,445 --> 00:18:33,738
that I don’t think
that they could know about.

345
00:18:34,322 --> 00:18:36,115
How big was the figure?

346
00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:38,410
It was about as big
as a grade six.

347
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,703
How tall would have said?

348
00:18:41,622 --> 00:18:44,040
Maybe about three
and a half feet.

349
00:18:44,082 --> 00:18:47,837
There’s another one, he,
he, he was a bit short.

350
00:18:47,837 --> 00:18:51,423
As an investigator
I’ve learned that

351
00:18:52,007 --> 00:18:54,383
if they tell
exactly the same story,

352
00:18:54,383 --> 00:18:57,012
then there’s corroboration,
they’ve got together

353
00:18:57,012 --> 00:18:58,472
and they’re doing it.

354
00:18:58,472 --> 00:19:03,685
But if they tell a similar story
but from different viewpoints,

355
00:19:04,227 --> 00:19:05,812
to me, that’s the truth.

356
00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:10,358
We saw two of them, one was
standing in front of the ship

357
00:19:10,358 --> 00:19:12,945
and then the other one had,
um, long hair.

358
00:19:13,445 --> 00:19:15,322
But the one was standing
in front

359
00:19:15,322 --> 00:19:17,115
didn’t have any hair at all.

360
00:19:17,115 --> 00:19:19,200
Show me with your hands
how big the eyes were.

361
00:19:19,242 --> 00:19:21,495
They were shaped
like something like that.

362
00:19:21,495 --> 00:19:25,082
Big head and big black eyes

363
00:19:25,082 --> 00:19:27,167
and was dressed
in a black body suit.

364
00:19:27,167 --> 00:19:30,003
What did you think it was?
I don’t know.

365
00:19:30,003 --> 00:19:32,297
I just thought it was
some type of alien

366
00:19:32,297 --> 00:19:34,048
from a different planet.

367
00:19:34,717 --> 00:19:38,303
What are they talking about?
I had no experience of UFOs

368
00:19:38,303 --> 00:19:41,515
or anything like that apart from
seeing Steven Spielberg’s film,

369
00:19:41,515 --> 00:19:44,058
"Close Encounters
of the Third Kind" or whatever.

370
00:19:45,185 --> 00:19:47,187
I just thought
they're all bonkers!

371
00:19:48,147 --> 00:19:51,567
I was just a hard-assed
journalist, skeptical as,

372
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:55,987
as everybody would be!
What is this? I want to know.

373
00:19:55,987 --> 00:19:59,575
I mean, the BBC want to know.
What is going on here?

374
00:20:10,627 --> 00:20:12,045
There’s a truth behind,
you know,

375
00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:13,880
your environment
shaping who you are.

376
00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:20,220
For me, growing up in Africa
was normal. It was just home.

377
00:20:23,015 --> 00:20:25,225
You’re growing up in an area

378
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:27,102
where you need to be aware
of your environment.

379
00:20:27,268 --> 00:20:29,980
This is not living in America.

380
00:20:30,938 --> 00:20:33,025
You’re in Africa.

381
00:20:33,025 --> 00:20:34,735
You’re in Zimbabwe.

382
00:20:35,943 --> 00:20:39,197
We didn’t grow up around TV.
People like to joke about.

383
00:20:39,197 --> 00:20:40,740
"Oh, did you have
running water?" Yes.

384
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:42,700
That was,
that was luxury, actually.

385
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,203
That’s something
you were lucky to have.

386
00:20:46,955 --> 00:20:51,960
Or electricity, because the
places that we went to a lot,

387
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,712
I mean, they’d have nothing.

388
00:20:53,712 --> 00:20:55,588
You live in a mud hut.
Thatched roof.

389
00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:59,342
You live every single day
to live and hope you can.

390
00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:03,180
Yeah, so it was
completely different.

391
00:21:33,877 --> 00:21:36,630
OK, mom, dad.
Do you remember this place?

392
00:21:38,132 --> 00:21:39,842
We used to stop here
all the time.

393
00:21:42,302 --> 00:21:45,388
This is really...
I feel at home.

394
00:21:47,223 --> 00:21:48,725
If you go back to Ariel,

395
00:21:48,725 --> 00:21:51,520
it means I get to go back
to the spot where it happened.

396
00:21:52,312 --> 00:21:53,897
I don’t know
how I’m going to feel.

397
00:21:54,063 --> 00:21:55,982
I don’t know what
it’s going to bring up.

398
00:21:55,982 --> 00:22:00,070
But I feel really blessed to be
able to do that in my life.

399
00:22:09,747 --> 00:22:11,247
My family’s religious

400
00:22:11,247 --> 00:22:13,833
and we came to Africa
for mission work.

401
00:22:14,835 --> 00:22:16,962
My brother and sister
also attended Ariel.

402
00:22:16,962 --> 00:22:19,547
They were very traumatized
about the event.

403
00:22:19,547 --> 00:22:22,175
Talking about it
in a religious environment

404
00:22:22,175 --> 00:22:24,427
wasn’t something
that was allowed to be done.

405
00:22:25,928 --> 00:22:28,515
I was very quickly removed
out of the situation,

406
00:22:28,515 --> 00:22:33,353
so it was pack up everything
and we flew into Canada.

407
00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:37,690
I didn’t get to have
the opportunity of growing up

408
00:22:37,690 --> 00:22:39,358
with the friends
in that environment

409
00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,110
who had had that occur to them.

410
00:22:57,835 --> 00:23:00,672
I’m looking for to, uh,
reconnect again.

411
00:23:01,757 --> 00:23:05,843
I haven’t been back to Ariel
for just over 20 years.

412
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,075
Oh, my gosh!

413
00:23:41,128 --> 00:23:48,512
Holy... And the classrooms.

414
00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:53,725
Hi!
How are you doing?

415
00:23:53,892 --> 00:23:55,143
Good. How are you?

416
00:23:55,143 --> 00:23:56,393
Good.
Emily.

417
00:23:56,393 --> 00:23:57,978
Ms. Bates is right in there.

418
00:23:58,020 --> 00:23:59,647
How are you?
How are you?

419
00:23:59,647 --> 00:24:00,898
I’m good.

420
00:24:00,898 --> 00:24:02,108
Yeah. And you?

421
00:24:02,108 --> 00:24:03,902
Good. I’m really glad
to be back.

422
00:24:03,902 --> 00:24:05,528
Bit of a shock to come...
...back.

423
00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:08,072
Yeah.
Come home, whatever.

424
00:24:08,072 --> 00:24:09,573
Home.
Yes, home.

425
00:24:09,573 --> 00:24:10,825
It is!
’Tis.

426
00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:12,077
Home.
Always.

427
00:24:12,077 --> 00:24:13,328
Yes.

428
00:24:13,328 --> 00:24:14,537
It’s good to see you.

429
00:24:14,537 --> 00:24:16,372
Thank you. Oh, my goodness.

430
00:24:17,457 --> 00:24:22,170
That’s Rachel.
This is Paul, my brother,

431
00:24:22,170 --> 00:24:25,465
who also attended the school.
So we’re a family of three here.

432
00:24:25,465 --> 00:24:27,967
So will someone be able
to show me around the school?

433
00:24:27,967 --> 00:24:29,427
Victor is going
to show you around.

434
00:24:29,427 --> 00:24:30,970
Oh, hi, Victor! Emily.

435
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:33,723
Nice, nice to meet you.
It’s nice to meet you, too.

436
00:24:35,142 --> 00:24:37,227
I’m walking
where I used to step.

437
00:24:37,227 --> 00:24:40,105
Yeah.
It, it feels incredible.

438
00:24:46,903 --> 00:24:49,405
Today we’ve got
a special visitor in our midst.

439
00:24:50,448 --> 00:24:51,908
It’s Emily Trim

440
00:24:51,908 --> 00:24:55,578
and she was here at
the Ariel School 21 years ago.

441
00:25:00,292 --> 00:25:02,668
Was Mr. Mackie here
when you guys were here?

442
00:25:02,668 --> 00:25:04,753
Yes.
Do you remember Mrs. Hwacha?

443
00:25:04,753 --> 00:25:06,338
Yes.
Yes.

444
00:25:07,132 --> 00:25:08,800
She was I think
my grade three teacher.

445
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,385
Was she?
Yes.

446
00:25:11,427 --> 00:25:12,970
Then she came and,

447
00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:15,098
sort of like stalking
in the supermarket, in SPAR,

448
00:25:15,265 --> 00:25:18,727
when you were phoning me.
And the trolley was full of...

449
00:26:19,453 --> 00:26:20,413
Are you having a good day?

450
00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:21,957
Yes.

451
00:26:21,957 --> 00:26:24,125
Yes? Is it lunchtime
right now for you?

452
00:26:24,125 --> 00:26:26,460
Yes.
Yes. Wonderful.

453
00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:28,212
There were the boundary
logs here.

454
00:26:29,422 --> 00:26:32,633
And that field wasn’t there.
Uh, so it was all brush and...

455
00:26:32,633 --> 00:26:34,302
And you were guys
went down to the logs?

456
00:26:34,302 --> 00:26:36,805
Well, I was right on the log
when it actually happened.

457
00:26:36,805 --> 00:26:38,515
You were there?
Yes. I was here.

458
00:26:38,515 --> 00:26:40,225
And you saw them? You are
the ones who drew those...

459
00:26:40,267 --> 00:26:41,517
Yes.
...funny pictures.

460
00:26:41,517 --> 00:26:42,768
Yes.
Oh, OK.

461
00:26:42,768 --> 00:26:44,020
Yeah.

462
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:45,688
Nice to meet you.
Where are you staying?

463
00:26:45,688 --> 00:26:49,400
With Ms. Bates.
OK. OK. OK.

464
00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:00,245
We have the shower
down there.

465
00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:05,125
And this is your room here.
Everyone’s got a fan.

466
00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:07,085
I don’t have mozzie nets,
I’m afraid.

467
00:27:07,085 --> 00:27:08,837
You don’t have what?
Mosquito nets.

468
00:27:08,878 --> 00:27:10,463
It’s OK.

469
00:27:32,443 --> 00:27:33,862
And what did
your other friends say?

470
00:27:33,903 --> 00:27:35,322
They were scared.

471
00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:38,323
We wanted to tell the teachers
but some of us were too shy to.

472
00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:40,660
We, we ran down
to the teachers

473
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:42,328
and we went into the office

474
00:27:42,328 --> 00:27:44,788
and we started
telling the teachers.

475
00:27:44,788 --> 00:27:47,125
And then they said
maybe there’s nothing.

476
00:27:47,125 --> 00:27:48,543
And how did that make you feel

477
00:27:48,543 --> 00:27:50,628
when they said
maybe there’s nothing?

478
00:27:50,628 --> 00:27:53,798
Well, we felt very sad
because we did see something.

479
00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:57,385
Cheryl, what was your reaction
when Candice and Teagan

480
00:27:57,385 --> 00:27:59,178
told you about the UFOs

481
00:27:59,178 --> 00:28:01,138
and the aliens
that they saw on Friday?

482
00:28:01,848 --> 00:28:04,808
Um, I don’t know, really.
I found it very hard to believe.

483
00:28:04,808 --> 00:28:06,728
I’ve always taught my children
seeing is believing

484
00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:08,480
and unfortunately
I didn’t see,

485
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,900
so I don’t know if I believe.
We always joke

486
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:14,152
that the children saw
these little green men come out.

487
00:28:14,152 --> 00:28:16,195
And they say, "No, mummy,
but we did see."

488
00:28:16,947 --> 00:28:20,575
So I don’t know. I do believe
Candace to a certain extent."

489
00:28:20,575 --> 00:28:21,827
What did the man look like?

490
00:28:21,827 --> 00:28:23,495
Why would they make up
such a story?

491
00:28:23,495 --> 00:28:26,580
And kids of that age,
6 to 9, 10,

492
00:28:27,248 --> 00:28:29,375
they wouldn’t be able to
sustain such a story

493
00:28:29,375 --> 00:28:30,668
for such a long time.

494
00:28:30,668 --> 00:28:31,878
And one of them’s
going to crack.

495
00:28:31,878 --> 00:28:33,253
And then it will be,

496
00:28:33,253 --> 00:28:35,005
then it will be unrolling
a ball of string, you know,

497
00:28:35,047 --> 00:28:37,883
all the rest of them would,
would, um, crack as well.

498
00:28:37,883 --> 00:28:39,802
So would you want to talk
about it to friends

499
00:28:39,843 --> 00:28:41,930
or other people you meet in
the future when you get older?

500
00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:43,432
Or do you just want
to forget about it?

501
00:28:43,432 --> 00:28:44,682
No, I don’t want
to forget about it.

502
00:28:44,682 --> 00:28:46,852
I want to keep it in
because I know that it was true.

503
00:28:46,852 --> 00:28:49,437
And I want to talk
to other people about it.

504
00:28:49,437 --> 00:28:51,022
They were fascinated.

505
00:28:51,605 --> 00:28:53,567
They accepted it
in their full stripe.

506
00:28:53,567 --> 00:28:56,235
They knew what they’d seen.
They’re not stupid.

507
00:28:57,487 --> 00:29:00,365
Children are so much
more open than adults.

508
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:03,910
I’ve always kept an open mind
about the life, the universe,

509
00:29:03,910 --> 00:29:06,788
and everything, God, Buddha,
whatever you want to call it.

510
00:29:06,788 --> 00:29:10,625
But this story was something
I hadn’t encountered before.

511
00:29:12,127 --> 00:29:14,878
In October of 1983
I went to Zimbabwe

512
00:29:14,878 --> 00:29:16,965
which was going
through massacres

513
00:29:16,965 --> 00:29:20,552
and I went all over Africa
being a camera man,

514
00:29:20,552 --> 00:29:25,055
doing what’s called "bang bang",
which is serious war zone.

515
00:29:25,055 --> 00:29:26,307
I had done a lot.

516
00:29:26,307 --> 00:29:30,145
I’d done Angola, Rwanda,
Liberia, Nigeria.

517
00:29:30,145 --> 00:29:32,563
I’d done lots of war zones.

518
00:29:32,563 --> 00:29:35,608
A lot of friends
and my crew were killed.

519
00:29:35,608 --> 00:29:37,985
And I survived.
That was my job.

520
00:29:39,028 --> 00:29:40,780
But this was a bolt
out of the blue.

521
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,992
I mean, I wasn’t expecting this
because I was, I was a realist.

522
00:29:44,617 --> 00:29:46,535
It was totally out of my remit.

523
00:29:46,577 --> 00:29:50,498
I could handle war zones but I
could not handle this UFO thing.

524
00:29:50,498 --> 00:29:52,375
It just didn’t make sense.

525
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:55,837
And that’s when I had
to call in extra help.

526
00:29:56,795 --> 00:29:59,757
Cynthia Hind put me in touch
with Dr. John Mack.

527
00:30:00,675 --> 00:30:03,595
And, uh, I got his number
at Harvard University.

528
00:30:03,637 --> 00:30:05,053
Tim Leach

529
00:30:05,053 --> 00:30:08,140
from BBC Television News
in Harare, Zimbabwe.

530
00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:09,725
Message for Dr. John Mack.

531
00:30:10,518 --> 00:30:14,897
This concerns a UFO sighting
over a school

532
00:30:15,648 --> 00:30:19,568
where it hovered, landed,
a black man got out.

533
00:30:20,195 --> 00:30:21,863
But of course
we’re having difficulty

534
00:30:21,863 --> 00:30:24,615
being taken seriously
despite it being the BBC.

535
00:30:24,615 --> 00:30:27,452
Please call me as soon
as you can. Thank you.

536
00:30:28,035 --> 00:30:30,538
I said, "Listen, I don’t know
what’s going on,

537
00:30:30,538 --> 00:30:34,458
but this is way outside
my normal ballgame.

538
00:30:34,458 --> 00:30:36,168
What do I do?"
And John Mack said,

539
00:30:36,168 --> 00:30:38,378
"As soon as I can break away
I’m coming over."

540
00:30:38,378 --> 00:30:40,632
And he did.

541
00:30:43,217 --> 00:30:45,052
With his credentials

542
00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:48,138
as head of the Department
of Psychiatry at Harvard,

543
00:30:48,682 --> 00:30:53,393
I sat up and took notice.
That took it to another depth.

544
00:30:53,393 --> 00:30:55,145
And their stories are
consistent...There’s

545
00:30:55,145 --> 00:30:56,688
some details
that are not consistent,

546
00:30:56,688 --> 00:30:58,900
like the boys saying
the two different days and...

547
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:02,445
Do you think it’s possible
that one, uh, imaginative child,

548
00:31:02,445 --> 00:31:06,823
uh, had a story and kind of
stirred the, the rest of them?

549
00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:09,118
No, I don’t believe.
I don’t believe.

550
00:31:09,118 --> 00:31:10,995
I honestly believe
they saw something,

551
00:31:11,955 --> 00:31:14,873
but for me to actually draw
a conclusion as to what it is,

552
00:31:15,792 --> 00:31:18,127
I don’t think I could do that
at this point in time.

553
00:31:18,127 --> 00:31:21,130
OK. How many of them reported
seeing the craft?

554
00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:22,382
In other words...

555
00:31:22,382 --> 00:31:23,758
Probably in the region
of about 60.

556
00:31:23,758 --> 00:31:25,092
More of them could have seen it

557
00:31:25,092 --> 00:31:28,053
and they’re just too embarrassed
to talk about it.

558
00:31:28,053 --> 00:31:31,473
Or we haven’t, actually
haven’t had the grade ones

559
00:31:31,515 --> 00:31:32,808
and twos involved.

560
00:31:32,808 --> 00:31:34,018
You haven’t spoke...

561
00:31:34,018 --> 00:31:35,312
So the six
and seven-year-olds.

562
00:31:35,312 --> 00:31:37,272
Right. How long would you, uh,

563
00:31:37,313 --> 00:31:40,065
estimate that the scene
actually lasted?

564
00:31:40,065 --> 00:31:42,610
It took over about 10
to 15 minutes.

565
00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:44,028
Really, that long?

566
00:31:44,028 --> 00:31:49,700
Did they describe any other,
sensory experiences like smell

567
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,660
or sound
or anything of that kind?

568
00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:53,245
Nothing at all actually.
Honestly nothing.

569
00:31:53,245 --> 00:31:55,957
I don’t think anybody’s
actually asked on at question.

570
00:31:58,125 --> 00:32:01,878
You’ve you’ve talked
with the BBC people

571
00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:03,965
and with Nicki Carter
here before, right?

572
00:32:03,965 --> 00:32:05,215
Yes. Yes.

573
00:32:05,215 --> 00:32:06,508
OK.
But the experience

574
00:32:06,508 --> 00:32:08,093
is still fresh
in your mind, is that right?

575
00:32:08,093 --> 00:32:09,303
Yes.
OK.

576
00:32:09,303 --> 00:32:12,890
What were you doing at the time?

577
00:32:13,975 --> 00:32:16,268
Well, I was playing at,
in the playground

578
00:32:16,268 --> 00:32:19,897
and then we just,
we saw something silver

579
00:32:19,897 --> 00:32:23,192
and then we quickly ran
to the log, to the logs.

580
00:32:23,192 --> 00:32:27,530
And then we saw a silver,
silver thing.

581
00:32:27,530 --> 00:32:29,823
And we saw a man
standing next to it.

582
00:32:29,823 --> 00:32:31,408
And what did he look like?

583
00:32:32,243 --> 00:32:35,497
Well, he had big eyes that,
like, pointed.

584
00:32:36,663 --> 00:32:38,207
Pointed, big eyes?
Yes.

585
00:32:38,207 --> 00:32:41,210
Can, can you... Maybe you
could just draw the head.

586
00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:42,712
What, what...
Do you like to draw?

587
00:32:42,712 --> 00:32:43,922
Yes.

588
00:32:43,922 --> 00:32:45,673
OK. Pull your chair up
and we’ll go.

589
00:32:49,635 --> 00:32:51,845
And what, these are what?
What are you drawing here?

590
00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:53,848
The eyes.
The eyes. OK.

591
00:32:53,848 --> 00:32:55,808
And I couldn’t see his nose
and his mouth,

592
00:32:55,808 --> 00:32:57,268
but his nose was pretty small.

593
00:32:57,268 --> 00:32:58,518
So his eyes were large.

594
00:32:58,518 --> 00:32:59,728
Is that right?
Yes.

595
00:32:59,728 --> 00:33:01,147
Did you look into the eyes?

596
00:33:01,147 --> 00:33:03,232
I mean, could you make, did you
have a sense that you were...

597
00:33:03,273 --> 00:33:05,818
No. All we saw was his eyes.
They were black.

598
00:33:05,818 --> 00:33:07,528
Black.
But, like, were looking at you

599
00:33:07,528 --> 00:33:10,448
or were you at,
at, at, uh, at him?

600
00:33:10,448 --> 00:33:12,450
Seemed that he was looking
at all of us.

601
00:33:13,868 --> 00:33:16,828
Have you,
have you ever seen a UFO.

602
00:33:16,828 --> 00:33:18,873
Have I? I never have, no.

603
00:33:29,550 --> 00:33:31,593
And I didn’t see
anything over there.

604
00:33:31,593 --> 00:33:33,012
No nose.
You didn’t see a nose?

605
00:33:33,012 --> 00:33:35,890
No.

606
00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:40,060
I just,
my heart kind of went faster

607
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:41,395
and then slower

608
00:33:41,395 --> 00:33:44,648
and then faster and the slower
all at the same time.

609
00:33:45,525 --> 00:33:48,027
Now was that...
That was excitement and...?

610
00:33:48,027 --> 00:33:49,612
Yeah. Excitement
and scariness.

611
00:33:49,612 --> 00:33:51,988
And scary. And how,
well you said happy too.

612
00:33:51,988 --> 00:33:54,742
Yeah.
Yeah. Happy because?

613
00:33:55,660 --> 00:33:57,245
Because...

614
00:33:58,037 --> 00:34:03,000
I saw something strange
and something peculiar

615
00:34:04,293 --> 00:34:06,378
and something
nobody had ever seen.

616
00:34:07,797 --> 00:34:10,717
Haley, you,
something scared you.

617
00:34:10,717 --> 00:34:12,050
Is that right?
Yes.

618
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:14,470
What, what scared you?
The noise.

619
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:16,263
What noise?

620
00:34:16,263 --> 00:34:18,015
The noise that we heard
in the air.

621
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,477
You heard a noise in the air?
Yes.

622
00:34:20,477 --> 00:34:23,687
What was it like?
Like a roar or a buzz or a hum

623
00:34:23,687 --> 00:34:25,022
or what kind of a noise?

624
00:34:25,022 --> 00:34:27,233
It was like someone
was blowing a flute.

625
00:34:27,233 --> 00:34:28,943
And that scared you?

626
00:34:28,943 --> 00:34:30,528
Yes.
Mm hmm.

627
00:34:30,528 --> 00:34:32,822
And what did you do when,
when you were afraid?

628
00:34:34,448 --> 00:34:37,202
Um, I ran away from it.

629
00:34:37,202 --> 00:34:38,870
Mm hmm.

630
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:43,623
We told the teacher but
she said just forget about it.

631
00:34:45,585 --> 00:34:48,378
People who have
these experiences

632
00:34:48,378 --> 00:34:49,630
are very serious about them.

633
00:34:49,672 --> 00:34:53,175
And I think that generally
speaking when something

634
00:34:53,175 --> 00:34:56,345
powerful, important,
exciting, scary has happened,

635
00:34:56,845 --> 00:34:59,265
that it’s useful
to talk about it,

636
00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:01,767
to have open discussion.

637
00:35:01,767 --> 00:35:04,562
And it doesn’t mean you have
to impose a point of view.

638
00:35:05,353 --> 00:35:09,108
It’s not about what we believe;
it’s what their experience is

639
00:35:09,108 --> 00:35:10,735
and how they find the adults

640
00:35:10,777 --> 00:35:13,695
around being receptive
to that experience.

641
00:35:14,947 --> 00:35:18,575
And you said that, uh,
you saw two, um,

642
00:35:19,243 --> 00:35:20,995
what would you call them?
Um...

643
00:35:21,037 --> 00:35:22,872
Aliens.
Aliens, you call them.

644
00:35:24,332 --> 00:35:29,170
And, and where the aliens
in relation to the to the craft?

645
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:30,838
I saw one over here.

646
00:35:30,838 --> 00:35:36,010
And I saw one, one of these
men by, by the spaceship.

647
00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:38,930
It looks like it was guarding
by the big spaceship.

648
00:35:39,513 --> 00:35:43,935
And there was another one
running, running in the grass.

649
00:35:43,935 --> 00:35:47,188
And how did he run compared to
the, say, a way a kid would run?

650
00:35:47,188 --> 00:35:50,190
He ran normally like us
but bouncy

651
00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:52,067
as if a human
would run on the moon.

652
00:35:52,943 --> 00:35:56,030
As there were less gravity
and it seemed light. Is that...?

653
00:35:56,072 --> 00:36:00,075
Yes. But not, not as much
as a human on the moon.

654
00:36:00,075 --> 00:36:03,537
Not that extreme.
When he ran his distance,

655
00:36:03,537 --> 00:36:05,790
he stopped and he looked
at us at for a while

656
00:36:06,582 --> 00:36:08,167
and then he ran back again.

657
00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:10,878
The one thing that
I’ve told everybody

658
00:36:10,878 --> 00:36:12,213
is we are dealing
with children here.

659
00:36:12,213 --> 00:36:13,630
Right.

660
00:36:13,630 --> 00:36:16,258
Sometimes the imagination
can get carried away with them.

661
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,218
Yeah. OK.

662
00:36:18,218 --> 00:36:20,805
How many of you still think
they were just making it up?

663
00:36:21,472 --> 00:36:24,642
And what got me was that
there were no adults outside.

664
00:36:25,308 --> 00:36:26,518
Nobody, none of us saw it.

665
00:36:26,518 --> 00:36:28,228
We just happened to be
in a staff meeting.

666
00:36:28,228 --> 00:36:29,813
I totally believe
the children.

667
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,775
They came running up here
in such a panic

668
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,318
and, I mean,
even if we had staged it

669
00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:37,488
they could not have run
all together like that.

670
00:36:37,488 --> 00:36:39,698
Just heard them screaming,
screaming, "Ah!"

671
00:36:39,698 --> 00:36:42,993
and they were here. You know?
And a child can’t make that up.

672
00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:46,705
And I mean, children know when
other children are conning them.

673
00:36:46,705 --> 00:36:49,542
And they were, like, about
100 of them that just came here.

674
00:36:49,542 --> 00:36:53,628
They didn’t see anything.
I think they said making,

675
00:36:53,628 --> 00:36:55,673
make-believe story
that actually created.

676
00:36:55,673 --> 00:36:56,965
That’s my feeling.

677
00:36:56,965 --> 00:36:59,135
What do you think
started the story?

678
00:36:59,135 --> 00:37:00,427
Since during that time,

679
00:37:00,427 --> 00:37:03,888
there were the talk
about meteorites and all that.

680
00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:07,435
I suppose they,
somebody created this story

681
00:37:07,435 --> 00:37:11,105
and they sort of thought
maybe they had seen something.

682
00:37:12,315 --> 00:37:13,983
You think that the
children’s imaginations

683
00:37:13,983 --> 00:37:15,525
are getting carried with them.

684
00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:18,153
But I became convinced
when I saw the drawings,

685
00:37:18,153 --> 00:37:20,447
because so many of the drawings
were similar.

686
00:37:20,447 --> 00:37:24,077
And also when they wrote their
stories in their storybooks.

687
00:37:24,077 --> 00:37:26,328
They, they definitely
seem genuine because, I mean,

688
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:28,413
they all wrote
completely different stories

689
00:37:28,413 --> 00:37:30,290
but they had seen
the same thing.

690
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:31,792
And I think
that’s what convinced me

691
00:37:31,792 --> 00:37:34,712
because I think I was
as skeptical as everybody else.

692
00:37:34,712 --> 00:37:35,963
It wasn’t just Ariel School.

693
00:37:35,963 --> 00:37:38,465
There were a lot
of different occurrences

694
00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:41,635
that happened over the,
the, probably that whole week.

695
00:37:41,635 --> 00:37:43,262
I live here at the school,

696
00:37:43,887 --> 00:37:45,848
so I try not to think
about it at all.

697
00:37:46,473 --> 00:37:48,392
Because if I do
I have sleepless nights.

698
00:37:48,392 --> 00:37:49,727
Then you have
sleepless nights?

699
00:37:49,727 --> 00:37:51,145
I do!

700
00:37:51,145 --> 00:37:53,647
I’ve had a lot of sleepless
nights since it happened.

701
00:37:53,647 --> 00:37:55,900
So I tried to put it
out of my mind.

702
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:58,860
What do you think about
the reality aspect of it?

703
00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:00,528
Seeing is believing.
I don’t know.

704
00:38:00,528 --> 00:38:02,238
But then I’m also scared
of the unknown,

705
00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:04,575
so it’s something
that I block off

706
00:38:04,575 --> 00:38:06,493
because
I’d rather get on with school.

707
00:38:06,493 --> 00:38:08,078
Do you think the kids
are telling the truth

708
00:38:08,078 --> 00:38:09,372
or do you think they are,
they kind of...

709
00:38:09,372 --> 00:38:10,622
I think they are

710
00:38:10,622 --> 00:38:11,957
...embellished it,
imagined it?

711
00:38:11,957 --> 00:38:13,375
Yeah. I think that I’d rather
not think about it...

712
00:38:13,375 --> 00:38:14,627
You’d rather not?
...again, because

713
00:38:14,627 --> 00:38:16,003
now if I think about it tonight

714
00:38:16,045 --> 00:38:18,005
I’ll have another
sleepless night.

715
00:38:18,005 --> 00:38:20,382
Because I’m waiting for an
alien to come through the walls.

716
00:38:20,382 --> 00:38:21,592
So...

717
00:38:21,633 --> 00:38:24,053
Some of the kids in my class
are so frightened.

718
00:38:24,595 --> 00:38:26,513
I actually can see that.

719
00:38:26,513 --> 00:38:28,390
It must have affected them
so much

720
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:33,062
that they sort of imagine
something will happen to them.

721
00:38:33,062 --> 00:38:36,148
They’re still young
and you don’t know sort of,

722
00:38:36,148 --> 00:38:38,733
how to act
and how to speak to them.

723
00:38:38,775 --> 00:38:40,027
You’re a bit careful.

724
00:38:40,027 --> 00:38:41,945
If we’re going to keep
discussing this,

725
00:38:41,945 --> 00:38:44,573
the parents have been knocking
on my door every single day.

726
00:38:44,615 --> 00:38:45,908
Yeah.

727
00:38:45,908 --> 00:38:49,828
Um, I don’t think
you can generalize

728
00:38:51,747 --> 00:38:53,165
when it comes
to something like this.

729
00:38:53,165 --> 00:38:54,542
You got to be extremely careful

730
00:38:54,542 --> 00:38:56,877
which way the parent
is going to jump.

731
00:38:56,877 --> 00:38:59,588
If he’s going to jump the wrong
way, you’ve caused a problem.

732
00:38:59,588 --> 00:39:01,298
Right.
You’ve caused a problem.

733
00:39:01,298 --> 00:39:03,050
I think you’re all...
You’re not solving it.

734
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:05,427
You’re probably all aware
of this caution

735
00:39:05,427 --> 00:39:07,597
that Colin is talking about.

736
00:39:07,597 --> 00:39:10,557
We had one child who was very
upset by the whole thing.

737
00:39:11,350 --> 00:39:12,893
Unfortunately he’s not
at the school anymore.

738
00:39:12,893 --> 00:39:14,603
He’s actually gone
back to Canada.

739
00:39:14,603 --> 00:39:17,482
He was having sleepless nights
and this was a 12,

740
00:39:17,482 --> 00:39:20,192
13-year-old child.
Basically the cause of that

741
00:39:20,192 --> 00:39:23,070
was his parents refused to
discuss the situation with him.

742
00:39:23,862 --> 00:39:28,283
His parents were very religious
and according to them

743
00:39:28,283 --> 00:39:29,993
this sort of thing
doesn’t happen.

744
00:39:38,335 --> 00:39:41,088
Just down that road, yes.

745
00:39:41,255 --> 00:39:42,757
Oh, my gosh.

746
00:39:42,757 --> 00:39:44,967
I can’t believe
I’m going to see Mrs. Hwacha.

747
00:39:48,845 --> 00:39:50,765
And she,
her name suits her, too.

748
00:39:50,765 --> 00:39:52,725
Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
You know? Mrs. Hwacha.

749
00:39:52,725 --> 00:39:54,102
Mrs. Hwacha. Watch!

750
00:39:54,102 --> 00:39:55,143
Exactly!

751
00:39:58,105 --> 00:39:59,440
I remember she was
very strict.

752
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,358
Was it, like, very, very strict.

753
00:40:01,358 --> 00:40:02,735
Like, everything was done
by her book.

754
00:40:02,777 --> 00:40:03,943
Yeah.

755
00:40:05,695 --> 00:40:08,240
There we go.
Judge Hwacha.

756
00:40:10,242 --> 00:40:11,577
That’s her car there, yeah?

757
00:40:11,577 --> 00:40:16,457
Yes.
OK. Ms. Hwacha’s coming.

758
00:40:16,498 --> 00:40:19,210
She’s coming out now.
Yeah. Emily Trim.

759
00:40:19,210 --> 00:40:21,503
Yes! You remember?

760
00:40:21,503 --> 00:40:23,713
Yes! Mrs. Hwacha!

761
00:40:25,298 --> 00:40:30,303
Mrs. Hwacha!
I’m now old.

762
00:40:31,055 --> 00:40:32,640
I'm now old. I know.

763
00:40:32,682 --> 00:40:34,433
You don’t see me to be old?

764
00:40:34,433 --> 00:40:37,562
No!
I missed you.

765
00:40:37,562 --> 00:40:38,770
Pardon?

766
00:40:38,770 --> 00:40:40,898
I missed you.
You missed me?

767
00:40:41,232 --> 00:40:42,440
Mm hmm.

768
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,445
I was a little bit difficult.
Wasn’t I?

769
00:40:46,612 --> 00:40:48,238
No. You?

770
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,532
Mm.

771
00:40:49,532 --> 00:40:53,868
Oh. You were, you were strict.

772
00:40:54,745 --> 00:40:56,163
You were strict!

773
00:40:56,330 --> 00:40:59,375
That is exactly
what I wanted to hear!

774
00:40:59,375 --> 00:41:02,587
Yes! You were strict.

775
00:41:02,587 --> 00:41:05,672
But you were fair, you know?
You were fair.

776
00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:06,632
I was very fair.

777
00:41:06,632 --> 00:41:08,342
Yes.
But...

778
00:41:08,342 --> 00:41:10,845
Strict. And it was beautiful.

779
00:41:11,012 --> 00:41:13,513
Oh
Beautiful

780
00:41:15,057 --> 00:41:17,017
There is this business of,

781
00:41:17,017 --> 00:41:20,770
um, us being, asked
about the aliens.

782
00:41:21,313 --> 00:41:22,648
Yeah.
Up to this end.

783
00:41:22,648 --> 00:41:23,898
Mm hmm.

784
00:41:23,898 --> 00:41:25,775
Yeah, because you saw that,
those things.

785
00:41:25,775 --> 00:41:27,903
You saw those people?
Mm hmm.

786
00:41:27,903 --> 00:41:31,740
We asked the children,
the school children

787
00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:33,992
then to draw.

788
00:41:34,702 --> 00:41:36,120
Yes.
You remember?

789
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,122
Mm hmm.
You also drew?

790
00:41:38,122 --> 00:41:40,165
Mm hmm.

791
00:41:40,540 --> 00:41:42,668
So Mr. Mackie asked us,

792
00:41:43,543 --> 00:41:46,297
we put all the papers
according to the classes,

793
00:41:47,172 --> 00:41:51,510
finished this class,
to the other, to the other,

794
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:55,513
to the other.
They were all the same.

795
00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:57,015
Same.

796
00:41:57,015 --> 00:42:03,480
We ended up concluding
that certainly we saw people.

797
00:42:05,315 --> 00:42:07,610
They’re going? Where to?

798
00:42:07,610 --> 00:42:09,653
Yeah.
How did they come there?

799
00:42:09,653 --> 00:42:10,905
Mm hmm.

800
00:42:10,947 --> 00:42:13,323
Who are they? Are they people?

801
00:42:15,283 --> 00:42:21,165
We couldn’t tell.
That’s what this story is.

802
00:42:21,165 --> 00:42:23,375
Yes.
That’s what you saw also.

803
00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:30,673
Yes. I had kept
those papers myself.

804
00:42:30,673 --> 00:42:31,800
You Did?

805
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,927
I don’t know
what happened to them.

806
00:42:33,927 --> 00:42:35,512
Ah! I’m looking for mine.

807
00:42:36,055 --> 00:42:38,973
I... You can’t find it?
I can’t find mine.

808
00:42:38,973 --> 00:42:40,558
Same with me.

809
00:42:40,558 --> 00:42:45,438
Because I had thought it was
something I must also hold onto.

810
00:42:47,858 --> 00:42:50,152
I didn’t know what that meant.

811
00:42:54,573 --> 00:42:56,492
Uh, these eyes,
did you look at them?

812
00:42:56,492 --> 00:42:57,910
Yes.

813
00:42:57,910 --> 00:43:00,287
What feeling did that give you
when you looked in the eyes?

814
00:43:00,287 --> 00:43:01,497
It made me shake a little.

815
00:43:01,497 --> 00:43:02,247
Made you shake.

816
00:43:02,247 --> 00:43:03,582
It was a terrifying feeling.

817
00:43:03,582 --> 00:43:04,292
A what?

818
00:43:04,292 --> 00:43:05,083
A terrifying.

819
00:43:05,083 --> 00:43:06,502
A terrifying feeling.
Yes.

820
00:43:06,502 --> 00:43:08,337
And what made it terrifying?

821
00:43:08,337 --> 00:43:10,130
The way he was looking at me.

822
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:11,632
How did he look at you?

823
00:43:11,632 --> 00:43:14,885
Strangely, like and old woman
who hadn’t seen a kid before.

824
00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:16,262
Like a what?

825
00:43:16,262 --> 00:43:17,512
An old woman who hasn’t
seen a kid before.

826
00:43:17,512 --> 00:43:19,432
An old woman
who hasn’t seen a kid before?

827
00:43:19,432 --> 00:43:21,433
Yes. She stares like this.

828
00:43:21,433 --> 00:43:23,643
OK, let me, I’m going
to ask you to do something.

829
00:43:23,643 --> 00:43:28,065
Try to just be in that
feeling for a moment.

830
00:43:28,065 --> 00:43:30,317
Try to remember
that terrifying feeling. OK?

831
00:43:30,317 --> 00:43:31,818
Can you do that?

832
00:43:31,818 --> 00:43:35,113
I know it’s unpleasant,
but nothing bad will happen. OK?

833
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,615
And just try to tell me
what that terror,

834
00:43:37,615 --> 00:43:38,867
what’s in the terror.

835
00:43:38,867 --> 00:43:41,620
See what,
what you find in the terror.

836
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,915
What, what,
what it might be about.

837
00:43:45,832 --> 00:43:48,418
It was making me all scared
and my heart

838
00:43:48,418 --> 00:43:50,420
was now starting to pump faster

839
00:43:50,420 --> 00:43:52,965
and it was making me
all woozy now.

840
00:43:52,965 --> 00:43:55,383
Like woozy, losing...
Yes.

841
00:43:55,383 --> 00:43:56,885
Like, like you were going
to faint, you mean?

842
00:43:56,885 --> 00:43:58,095
Yeah.
Did you faint?

843
00:43:58,095 --> 00:43:59,722
No.
Yeah. Yeah.

844
00:43:59,722 --> 00:44:01,348
And then I was looking
at him, right?

845
00:44:01,348 --> 00:44:01,932
Yeah.

846
00:44:01,932 --> 00:44:03,225
And then he was looking
at me back.

847
00:44:03,225 --> 00:44:04,810
How could I just keep on
looking at him?

848
00:44:04,810 --> 00:44:06,603
So I just stopped
and I looked sideways,

849
00:44:06,645 --> 00:44:08,772
so he wouldn’t keep on
making me feeling faint.

850
00:44:09,105 --> 00:44:10,857
But you kept looking?
Yes.

851
00:44:10,857 --> 00:44:11,983
Why did you keep looking?

852
00:44:11,983 --> 00:44:13,860
I don’t know. Something just
attracted me to look at him.

853
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:16,030
Something attracted you, huh?
Yes.

854
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:19,742
The other man, he,
his eyes looked at me as if, um,

855
00:44:19,908 --> 00:44:22,995
"I want to..."
Things like that.

856
00:44:22,995 --> 00:44:24,872
I want to what?
I want you.

857
00:44:24,872 --> 00:44:26,290
I want you?
Yeah.

858
00:44:26,290 --> 00:44:27,540
I want you in what?

859
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:29,333
Like, I want you
to come with me?

860
00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:31,087
Yeah. I want you
to come with me.

861
00:44:31,087 --> 00:44:32,797
I want you to come.

862
00:44:32,838 --> 00:44:34,548
Did you go with him,
do you think?

863
00:44:36,342 --> 00:44:38,385
No.
Only my eyes went with him.

864
00:44:38,385 --> 00:44:40,303
Your eyes went with him?
And my feeling.

865
00:44:40,303 --> 00:44:41,763
And your feeling
went with him.

866
00:44:41,763 --> 00:44:43,598
So was there a part of you
that wanted to go with him?

867
00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:44,850
Yeah.

868
00:44:44,850 --> 00:44:46,602
That felt, like,
drawn to go with him?

869
00:44:46,643 --> 00:44:47,895
Yeah.
OK.

870
00:44:47,895 --> 00:44:49,438
Can you say what that felt like?

871
00:44:52,398 --> 00:44:55,443
Again, scary
and a little excited.

872
00:44:55,443 --> 00:44:56,653
Yeah.

873
00:44:56,653 --> 00:44:59,113
And, and a little
I shouldn’t go.

874
00:44:59,948 --> 00:45:02,910
Yeah. And yet I want to go?

875
00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:04,495
Yeah.
Yeah.

876
00:45:05,245 --> 00:45:07,580
John Mack seemed to have
brought out that information,

877
00:45:07,580 --> 00:45:10,750
because we just took it out
in a very analytical way.

878
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:12,418
We just said,
"What did you see?"

879
00:45:13,003 --> 00:45:14,672
and "What did the aliens
look like?"

880
00:45:14,672 --> 00:45:17,132
"What did they do?"
But we never thought

881
00:45:17,758 --> 00:45:22,470
there might be some kind of
emotional, deeper effect.

882
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:24,515
You know, it really
gave you goosebumps,

883
00:45:24,515 --> 00:45:26,267
if I might put it that way.

884
00:45:26,267 --> 00:45:27,977
You know, there’s something
more going on here

885
00:45:27,977 --> 00:45:29,562
than what met the eye.

886
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:32,355
What made you scream?

887
00:45:35,442 --> 00:45:37,987
I was just getting
very scared.

888
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:39,947
What were you
scared would happen?

889
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:42,657
Now don’t be afraid to make,
say,

890
00:45:42,657 --> 00:45:45,327
even if you think
it’s not sensible,

891
00:45:46,537 --> 00:45:48,955
just tell me what
you were afraid might happen.

892
00:45:49,832 --> 00:45:52,208
Um, I thought
the aliens would attack me.

893
00:45:52,208 --> 00:45:55,128
Would attack you? And do what?
Hurt you?

894
00:45:55,128 --> 00:45:56,338
Yes.

895
00:45:56,338 --> 00:45:58,507
How would they do that?
I don’t know.

896
00:45:59,132 --> 00:46:00,467
Mm hmm.

897
00:46:00,467 --> 00:46:02,928
It looked evil because it was
just staring at me.

898
00:46:04,178 --> 00:46:08,017
With what? Starting at you
as if what? As if to do what?

899
00:46:10,143 --> 00:46:11,937
As if it wanted to come
and take us.

900
00:46:24,492 --> 00:46:27,702
I know this is hard.
I know it’s hard. Try to...

901
00:46:29,955 --> 00:46:32,623
It’s hard to put into words
what you felt, I’m sure.

902
00:46:37,212 --> 00:46:41,383
John did this public meeting
in Harare.

903
00:46:41,383 --> 00:46:44,468
He did an incredible service
to the community

904
00:46:44,468 --> 00:46:48,557
who were worried
and just wanted answers.

905
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:53,603
Dr. John Mack
is a true academic.

906
00:46:54,605 --> 00:46:58,233
He’s a professor of psychiatry
at Harvard University.

907
00:46:58,942 --> 00:47:01,445
I think we’re very, very lucky
in this country

908
00:47:01,445 --> 00:47:02,947
to have somebody of his caliber.

909
00:47:02,947 --> 00:47:05,948
So can we have a big hand
for Dr. Mack?

910
00:47:10,912 --> 00:47:13,165
Thrilled to be here tonight
to have a chance

911
00:47:13,165 --> 00:47:15,708
to talk with you
about this phenomenon.

912
00:47:16,377 --> 00:47:18,628
I’m trained in adult
and child psychiatry

913
00:47:18,628 --> 00:47:20,963
and adult
and child psychoanalysis.

914
00:47:20,963 --> 00:47:25,468
And I’m a relative newcomer
to the UFO field.

915
00:47:26,052 --> 00:47:28,138
And the reason for this trip

916
00:47:28,180 --> 00:47:33,518
is the incident that took place
in Ruwa at the Ariel School.

917
00:47:33,518 --> 00:47:34,853
A number of you

918
00:47:34,853 --> 00:47:38,440
I’m sure know something
about what took place there.

919
00:47:38,982 --> 00:47:41,485
The children we talked
with clearly

920
00:47:41,485 --> 00:47:44,403
were talking about a phenomenon

921
00:47:44,403 --> 00:47:47,365
that occurred
in physical reality.

922
00:47:47,365 --> 00:47:49,533
In other words,
their stories were consistent

923
00:47:49,533 --> 00:47:51,453
and the way they talked about it

924
00:47:51,453 --> 00:47:54,873
left virtually no question
in our minds

925
00:47:54,873 --> 00:47:59,628
that what happened was just
about what they said happened.

926
00:48:02,713 --> 00:48:04,675
I know it’s strange,
very weird.

927
00:48:04,675 --> 00:48:06,427
Yeah. I just got so scared.

928
00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:08,970
So, yeah.

929
00:48:09,597 --> 00:48:11,390
If I had to describe that day,

930
00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:13,558
the first thing that I remember
is the light

931
00:48:13,558 --> 00:48:16,227
and sound is the main thing
that just strikes me.

932
00:48:16,227 --> 00:48:17,812
And then the two shadows.

933
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,023
But especially the sound
and the light.

934
00:48:21,023 --> 00:48:22,275
The light because it was
so bright,

935
00:48:22,275 --> 00:48:24,527
the sound because it scared me.
So...

936
00:48:24,568 --> 00:48:27,197
Yeah, we heard a sound
in that, that direction.

937
00:48:27,197 --> 00:48:29,700
It was sort of like
a buzzing noise.

938
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:33,245
It was a very, you know,
it was like a buzzing.

939
00:48:33,245 --> 00:48:36,290
The buzzing of what you would
hear at an electric station

940
00:48:36,290 --> 00:48:39,208
or, um, anywhere close to that.

941
00:48:40,293 --> 00:48:43,255
Like, something’s
being zapped almost.

942
00:49:16,538 --> 00:49:20,417
I noticed that there was
a large shape amongst the trees,

943
00:49:20,417 --> 00:49:23,128
which we couldn’t really
figure out what it was.

944
00:49:24,628 --> 00:49:27,298
It looked like a, a big rock.

945
00:49:28,467 --> 00:49:31,135
It looked like water
was trickling over it

946
00:49:31,135 --> 00:49:33,347
and the sun was reflecting
in that water.

947
00:49:36,808 --> 00:49:38,393
That’s the best way
I can describe it.

948
00:49:38,435 --> 00:49:43,065
It didn’t look like a, a smooth
metallic object as you would,

949
00:49:43,732 --> 00:49:47,777
you would think when you were
looking at a UFO on TV

950
00:49:47,777 --> 00:49:50,072
as we depict them.
It looked natural.

951
00:49:50,072 --> 00:49:52,823
It didn’t look like
anything man-made.

952
00:49:53,283 --> 00:49:57,745
You saw it again appearing
in kind of like in spots.

953
00:49:57,745 --> 00:49:59,497
You saw it and then
you didn’t see it.

954
00:49:59,497 --> 00:50:00,915
You know,
and then you saw it again.

955
00:50:00,915 --> 00:50:05,087
In the same general area,
but it was, that kind of was,

956
00:50:05,087 --> 00:50:07,130
you know, like I said,
what made you think twice,

957
00:50:07,172 --> 00:50:09,590
like, OK, did I, did I see it?
Didn’t I see it?

958
00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:11,133
But when every, you know,
then everyone else

959
00:50:11,133 --> 00:50:14,345
started saying, "Yes, I see it."
And it was the same thing

960
00:50:14,345 --> 00:50:16,723
when we saw
whatever beings where there.

961
00:50:16,723 --> 00:50:18,183
You know?

962
00:50:18,183 --> 00:50:20,768
It wasn’t like they were just
standing and looking at you.

963
00:50:21,395 --> 00:50:26,357
You would see them in various
places at various times.

964
00:50:26,357 --> 00:50:27,692
So you didn’t know
if it was one,

965
00:50:27,692 --> 00:50:29,277
if it was more than one.

966
00:50:30,195 --> 00:50:33,490
He moved kind of strangely.
I’d say almost like,

967
00:50:34,867 --> 00:50:37,410
say, a very graceful
sort of movement.

968
00:50:37,410 --> 00:50:40,080
You know, not like he was
stumbling around or anything.

969
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,875
He, like, sort of like glided
from, while he was walking.

970
00:50:45,002 --> 00:50:47,087
There wasn’t
any gravitational pull.

971
00:50:47,087 --> 00:50:48,630
It was, uh, very fluid.

972
00:50:50,423 --> 00:50:54,635
So when he was moving
it was very fluid and flowy

973
00:50:54,635 --> 00:50:56,888
and it wasn’t
kind of jerky or...

974
00:50:58,348 --> 00:50:59,640
Yeah.

975
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,227
The strange thing was it was
running in slow motion,

976
00:51:03,395 --> 00:51:06,063
as if you would watch a replay
in a football match.

977
00:51:06,063 --> 00:51:09,902
It was running in slow-motion
diagonally down the field.

978
00:51:10,735 --> 00:51:13,070
And then suddenly
it would reappear in the corner

979
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:15,073
where it started
and do the same thing.

980
00:51:16,073 --> 00:51:18,535
And then it would reappear
and do the same thing.

981
00:51:19,743 --> 00:51:23,707
And that was frightening,
more frightening than seeing

982
00:51:24,248 --> 00:51:25,958
what these things actually were,

983
00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:28,962
was not being able to see them
long enough, I guess.

984
00:51:34,008 --> 00:51:39,807
It really ripped my socks off.
It was unbelievable.

985
00:51:41,140 --> 00:51:44,310
I’ve got to justify myself
to the BBC and...

986
00:51:44,937 --> 00:51:49,482
How am I going to explain to
a serious BBC editor in London

987
00:51:49,482 --> 00:51:52,485
that this is not an April Fool’s
joke in September?

988
00:51:53,987 --> 00:51:55,905
The BBC always have this policy

989
00:51:55,905 --> 00:51:58,325
that you don’t run
with one source.

990
00:51:59,117 --> 00:52:01,537
You got to get two or three,
preferably three.

991
00:52:01,537 --> 00:52:04,788
And I had 20, 30, 40.

992
00:52:05,915 --> 00:52:09,335
Now I put a, a lot of stake
on the physical evidence.

993
00:52:09,335 --> 00:52:14,090
But I don’t
primarily emphasize that not

994
00:52:14,090 --> 00:52:15,800
because I don’t think
it’s critically important.

995
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,303
I think that physical evidence
is very valuable.

996
00:52:19,303 --> 00:52:21,263
But for me my strongest suit

997
00:52:21,263 --> 00:52:26,812
is my clinical investigative
approach to create trust,

998
00:52:26,853 --> 00:52:29,940
to bring forth whatever it is,

999
00:52:29,940 --> 00:52:32,692
and the memories and experiences
come flooding back.

1000
00:52:33,943 --> 00:52:36,572
Now the fact is that people
aren’t threatened

1001
00:52:36,572 --> 00:52:39,115
when they come forward
about this.

1002
00:52:39,115 --> 00:52:42,077
Children, very reluctant
to tell their parents,

1003
00:52:42,077 --> 00:52:45,038
and a mother or father
may say to a child,

1004
00:52:45,038 --> 00:52:46,748
"Oh, you must have been
making it up.

1005
00:52:46,748 --> 00:52:49,918
You, your imagination
is too, uh, too lively."

1006
00:52:49,918 --> 00:52:51,753
And then the child
sort of grumbles

1007
00:52:51,753 --> 00:52:55,132
and they go inside and they do
what I call "going underground".

1008
00:52:55,798 --> 00:53:00,512
They know what happened to them,
but they don’t tell anybody.

1009
00:53:03,013 --> 00:53:05,267
I mean you just felt
nobody really cared.

1010
00:53:07,477 --> 00:53:10,022
Who do you talk to?
How do you understand it?

1011
00:53:11,355 --> 00:53:14,692
The people in my life that were
supposed to be the closest

1012
00:53:14,692 --> 00:53:16,485
and, um, the support system,

1013
00:53:20,365 --> 00:53:22,325
it didn’t feel like
it was there.

1014
00:53:23,327 --> 00:53:26,203
There was nobody there to say,
"Now it’s OK to talk about it."

1015
00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:29,248
So we never did. And as children
you have a huge imagination,

1016
00:53:29,248 --> 00:53:32,002
so you see those sort of things
and not know what they are.

1017
00:53:32,002 --> 00:53:34,963
And you, you’re left with this,
well, "where am I?"

1018
00:53:34,963 --> 00:53:38,342
limbo state of
"Am I safe or am I not safe?"

1019
00:53:38,342 --> 00:53:41,595
So it was, I think as
a protective mechanism,

1020
00:53:41,595 --> 00:53:44,472
block it out, turn it off,
don’t, don’t go back to it.

1021
00:53:46,933 --> 00:53:49,268
I haven’t really talked
to anyone about it.

1022
00:53:49,268 --> 00:53:51,062
I usually kept it quiet,
you know,

1023
00:53:51,062 --> 00:53:54,523
because most people
probably think I’m a,

1024
00:53:54,523 --> 00:53:55,942
you know, a bit nuts.

1025
00:53:57,318 --> 00:53:58,945
You’re not exactly going to
bring up

1026
00:53:58,945 --> 00:54:03,198
this kind of conversation at a,
at a bar or a restaurant or...

1027
00:54:04,242 --> 00:54:05,993
You know?
People think you’re crazy.

1028
00:54:06,535 --> 00:54:08,203
It’s very hard.
It’s kind of strange, I guess,

1029
00:54:08,203 --> 00:54:09,747
because they don’t believe you.

1030
00:54:09,747 --> 00:54:11,332
Some of my close friends
know about it.

1031
00:54:11,332 --> 00:54:13,250
But it’s more like not a joke;
but they’re like,

1032
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:14,543
’Huh, you’re crazy"
type of thing,

1033
00:54:14,543 --> 00:54:16,003
like laughter type of,

1034
00:54:16,003 --> 00:54:18,507
like it’s something funny to,
something to laugh about.

1035
00:54:19,090 --> 00:54:20,758
If this had been
ten years ago,

1036
00:54:20,758 --> 00:54:23,260
I wasn’t in a place where I
really wanted to talk about it.

1037
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:25,055
I just didn’t want to be
associated with that.

1038
00:54:25,263 --> 00:54:26,513
I was very self-conscious.

1039
00:54:26,513 --> 00:54:29,642
So, yeah, it’s kind of hard
to talk about it. It is.

1040
00:54:30,768 --> 00:54:36,440
Because it’s not something
that I bring up to anybody ever.

1041
00:54:38,192 --> 00:54:40,320
My husband doesn’t
even know about it.

1042
00:54:54,042 --> 00:54:57,128
Oh, true expression
of how it felt at times.

1043
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,382
It’s really, really difficult
to face yourself.

1044
00:55:01,675 --> 00:55:04,552
That’s a scary time.
Very, very scary time.

1045
00:55:06,763 --> 00:55:09,057
A lot of this was done
in black at first,

1046
00:55:09,723 --> 00:55:12,310
because I think that’s
how I was really feeling.

1047
00:55:15,522 --> 00:55:22,320
This is me with my hands
over my eyes trying to hide away

1048
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,572
from everything
that’s been going on.

1049
00:55:25,573 --> 00:55:30,953
It got really, really dark.
I love this piece.

1050
00:55:32,247 --> 00:55:33,915
It’s when I started using color.

1051
00:55:33,915 --> 00:55:38,712
It’s still a stern face,
but I think it’s more confident.

1052
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:42,215
Yeah, this one.

1053
00:55:42,215 --> 00:55:47,053
So here, this is the mouth,
like, being zipped up.

1054
00:55:48,513 --> 00:55:52,600
This was, like, when all you
want to do is just talk

1055
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,020
and you feel like
you have no one to talk to.

1056
00:55:59,815 --> 00:56:02,985
I didn’t realize that it
affected the children that much.

1057
00:56:02,985 --> 00:56:04,237
Mm hmm.

1058
00:56:04,237 --> 00:56:05,947
But it obviously has.
Yes.

1059
00:56:05,947 --> 00:56:07,365
It was quite difficult,
wasn’t it?

1060
00:56:07,365 --> 00:56:09,783
Because your mum and dad
would not have believed.

1061
00:56:10,702 --> 00:56:12,453
They, they believed
that something had occurred,

1062
00:56:12,495 --> 00:56:14,872
but it was very difficult
to integrate...

1063
00:56:14,872 --> 00:56:17,125
Very difficult to put
your religion and your,

1064
00:56:17,125 --> 00:56:20,503
see the Christian side of it
with that happening.

1065
00:56:20,503 --> 00:56:21,712
So, Mr. Sitoni, yes. Come in.

1066
00:56:21,712 --> 00:56:22,922
Oh, hi, Ms. Bates.
Hi!

1067
00:56:22,922 --> 00:56:24,173
How are you doing?

1068
00:56:24,173 --> 00:56:25,508
Oh, I’m OK, Mrs. Bates.
How are you?

1069
00:56:25,508 --> 00:56:26,717
Yes.
Hello.

1070
00:56:26,717 --> 00:56:28,260
Hi, how are you?
It’s good to see you.

1071
00:56:28,260 --> 00:56:30,012
It’s good to see you, too.
Back to your roots, are you?

1072
00:56:30,012 --> 00:56:31,222
Absolutely.

1073
00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:32,598
All right. I know.
That’s beautiful.

1074
00:56:32,598 --> 00:56:36,352
Yeah, connecting and seeing,
seeing the school again

1075
00:56:36,393 --> 00:56:39,355
and, you know, the event
that occurred here in 1994.

1076
00:56:39,355 --> 00:56:40,898
Oh, yes, the aliens
and all that. All right.

1077
00:56:40,898 --> 00:56:42,192
Yes.
Beautiful.

1078
00:56:42,192 --> 00:56:43,860
So that’s,
that’s what I’m here for.

1079
00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:45,278
Oh, that’s wonderful.
Yeah.

1080
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,947
Maybe, if you’re in tomorrow,
if you don’t mind...

1081
00:56:46,947 --> 00:56:48,197
Yeah.

1082
00:56:48,197 --> 00:56:50,158
...we can do the
tradition thing. Do you mind?

1083
00:56:50,158 --> 00:56:52,077
I would love to do that.
Ah, you’d love to. OK.

1084
00:56:52,077 --> 00:56:54,120
Yeah, because culture
is a huge part of this.

1085
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,622
Introduce you to a few people?

1086
00:56:55,622 --> 00:56:57,998
I’ll walk you out and you can
visit all the sacred places

1087
00:56:57,998 --> 00:56:59,208
and you can talk to them.

1088
00:56:59,208 --> 00:57:01,293
And you can then,
so when you come back here,

1089
00:57:01,293 --> 00:57:02,212
like, wow.

1090
00:57:02,295 --> 00:57:04,047
Yes!
Yeah, OK. No, beautiful.

1091
00:57:04,088 --> 00:57:05,548
Thank you.
Good to see you, isn’t it?

1092
00:57:05,548 --> 00:57:06,800
Good to see you, too.

1093
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,008
Later. Ms. Bates.

1094
00:57:08,008 --> 00:57:09,593
Thanks, Mr. Sitoni.

1095
00:57:37,163 --> 00:57:41,625
I saw these beings
and they have black eyes.

1096
00:57:42,418 --> 00:57:46,172
We’ve, we’ve got those ones.
We experience quite a lot.

1097
00:57:46,672 --> 00:57:48,592
A lot?
Yeah.

1098
00:57:48,592 --> 00:57:51,593
Is it the same description
as how I describe it, with...

1099
00:57:51,593 --> 00:57:52,970
Yes.
...that?

1100
00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:56,390
Yeah, they come, they come
in different versions, yeah.

1101
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:57,975
They come in different versions.

1102
00:58:16,202 --> 00:58:17,912
I don’t know
what you’ve heard.

1103
00:58:36,555 --> 00:58:39,808
I’m supposed to talk about
with, not,

1104
00:58:39,808 --> 00:58:40,893
it’s not, you know, not for...

1105
00:58:43,187 --> 00:58:44,313
Yes.

1106
00:59:53,465 --> 00:59:54,717
The sacred shrines.
Yes.

1107
00:59:54,758 --> 00:59:56,010
So it’s really
important that...

1108
00:59:59,305 --> 01:00:00,557
Mm hmm

1109
01:00:06,228 --> 01:00:07,105
Mm hmm

1110
01:00:10,317 --> 01:00:11,817
Did you hear about it?
Sure.

1111
01:00:11,817 --> 01:00:12,818
With Ariel when it happened?

1112
01:00:16,238 --> 01:00:19,492
Can you point to us where
the Ariel school is from here?

1113
01:00:24,997 --> 01:00:26,582
Oh my gosh!

1114
01:00:27,500 --> 01:00:29,418
Had you had those thoughts
before this experience?

1115
01:00:29,418 --> 01:00:30,712
No.

1116
01:00:30,712 --> 01:00:35,298
No. And did, how did
those thoughts come to you?

1117
01:00:35,298 --> 01:00:39,803
Did they come to you
from the craft or from...

1118
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:42,015
From the man.
The man.

1119
01:00:42,807 --> 01:00:46,060
And the man, did the man say
those things to you?

1120
01:00:46,935 --> 01:00:49,105
How did he get that
across to you?

1121
01:00:50,482 --> 01:00:52,567
Well, he never said anything.

1122
01:00:52,567 --> 01:00:54,985
It’s just that
the face, his, the eyes.

1123
01:00:55,987 --> 01:00:57,655
Fungai, what do you imagine

1124
01:00:57,655 --> 01:00:59,282
is his reason for
visiting earth?

1125
01:01:00,533 --> 01:01:02,618
I think it’s about something
that’s going to happen.

1126
01:01:02,660 --> 01:01:03,995
Something that’s
going to happen?

1127
01:01:03,995 --> 01:01:05,747
Yes.
Like what?

1128
01:01:05,747 --> 01:01:08,165
Um, it’s pollution
or something.

1129
01:01:08,165 --> 01:01:10,083
Pollution?
Yes.

1130
01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:13,838
And how did he get that idea
of pollution across to you?

1131
01:01:13,838 --> 01:01:16,798
Um, the way he was staring.
The way he was staring?

1132
01:01:16,798 --> 01:01:18,133
Yes.

1133
01:01:18,133 --> 01:01:20,387
Somehow there was a message
about pollution

1134
01:01:20,387 --> 01:01:21,762
from the way he was staring?

1135
01:01:21,762 --> 01:01:23,013
Yes.

1136
01:01:23,013 --> 01:01:28,937
I think they want, um,
people to know

1137
01:01:28,937 --> 01:01:32,190
that we’re actually making harm
on this world

1138
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:34,275
and we mustn’t get
too technologed.

1139
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,860
How did that get
communicated to you?

1140
01:01:36,902 --> 01:01:38,112
I don’t know.

1141
01:01:38,112 --> 01:01:39,322
But somehow it did?

1142
01:01:39,363 --> 01:01:41,240
Yeah. It came through my head.

1143
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,492
Through your head?

1144
01:01:42,533 --> 01:01:44,952
Did it talk, like,
through words or...?

1145
01:01:44,952 --> 01:01:46,370
My conscience, I think.
Your what?

1146
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:47,788
My conscience told me.

1147
01:01:47,788 --> 01:01:49,207
It came to you through your,
your conscience told you.

1148
01:01:49,207 --> 01:01:50,542
Yeah.

1149
01:01:50,542 --> 01:01:52,585
You mean while you were
in contact with the being,

1150
01:01:52,585 --> 01:01:53,837
you mean or what?

1151
01:01:53,837 --> 01:01:56,213
While I was... While the being
was looking at me.

1152
01:01:56,213 --> 01:01:57,757
While it was looking at you.

1153
01:01:58,507 --> 01:02:00,843
It was like this lake
of calmness in his eyes.

1154
01:02:01,468 --> 01:02:03,053
I was compelled to look at him.

1155
01:02:03,053 --> 01:02:06,515
It wasn’t like I,
I wanted to look away from him.

1156
01:02:07,267 --> 01:02:11,353
Time became very still
and very bizarre.

1157
01:02:12,105 --> 01:02:14,190
In my mind, technology...

1158
01:02:14,232 --> 01:02:17,485
and, and not, not good feelings
about technology either.

1159
01:02:17,485 --> 01:02:20,362
It was like technology
was a bad, dirty word.

1160
01:02:21,030 --> 01:02:24,367
I think that he was saying
to me, beware of the technology.

1161
01:02:24,367 --> 01:02:25,785
Don’t go into it too heavy

1162
01:02:25,785 --> 01:02:28,162
because it’s, it’s not going
to be good for you.

1163
01:02:29,038 --> 01:02:31,457
It was only when I was
looking at him and his face

1164
01:02:31,498 --> 01:02:34,168
and his eyes that I got that.

1165
01:02:34,168 --> 01:02:35,587
As soon as I looked
away from him,

1166
01:02:35,587 --> 01:02:37,588
that’s when all of reality and,

1167
01:02:37,588 --> 01:02:40,340
and everything
that was happening came back to.

1168
01:02:40,340 --> 01:02:44,095
And that’s when I realized
that something really strange

1169
01:02:44,137 --> 01:02:46,055
is happening here.

1170
01:02:46,055 --> 01:02:47,682
It's fascinating.

1171
01:02:48,307 --> 01:02:53,187
This was imagery coming through
from them communication,

1172
01:02:53,228 --> 01:02:55,898
but it’s done through,
right in your brain.

1173
01:02:58,358 --> 01:03:00,820
You, you were saying
that you thought that they maybe

1174
01:03:00,820 --> 01:03:03,907
were trying to tell us something
like, uh, about the future.

1175
01:03:03,907 --> 01:03:07,285
Can you say more of what your
thought is? What was it like?

1176
01:03:07,285 --> 01:03:11,330
It was like on the world,
all the trees will just go down

1177
01:03:11,330 --> 01:03:12,915
and,

1178
01:03:13,540 --> 01:03:16,252
and there were will be no air
and people will be dying.

1179
01:03:16,835 --> 01:03:22,383
I think that in space there’s
no love and down here there is.

1180
01:03:22,425 --> 01:03:23,843
There is love?
Yes.

1181
01:03:23,843 --> 01:03:24,843
Mm hmm.

1182
01:03:27,638 --> 01:03:29,807
Is there anything
we can do with that love,

1183
01:03:29,807 --> 01:03:31,642
as far as taking care
of the earth?

1184
01:03:31,642 --> 01:03:35,353
You talked about the,
that they, their message,

1185
01:03:35,353 --> 01:03:37,190
that we don’t take
care of the earth.

1186
01:03:38,148 --> 01:03:40,067
No.
Why not?

1187
01:03:40,735 --> 01:03:42,195
Several of them talked
about, uh,

1188
01:03:42,237 --> 01:03:44,988
a message being transmitted
through the eyes,

1189
01:03:44,988 --> 01:03:47,617
that the beings were trying
to tell us something.

1190
01:03:47,617 --> 01:03:50,537
What gave that
a certain edge of sincerity

1191
01:03:50,537 --> 01:03:52,622
was they weren’t offering
solutions,

1192
01:03:52,622 --> 01:03:54,165
like we’ve got to become
environmentally conscious

1193
01:03:54,165 --> 01:03:55,583
and, you know,
do something about the earth.

1194
01:03:55,583 --> 01:03:57,000
So I’d say, "Well, what
are we supposed to do?"

1195
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,460
And they would say, "Well, no.

1196
01:03:58,460 --> 01:04:01,088
That’s not what they were doing,
what they were conveying.

1197
01:04:01,088 --> 01:04:04,342
They, they were simply telling
us that this is what’s going on

1198
01:04:04,342 --> 01:04:06,177
and they felt very upset
about it."

1199
01:04:06,177 --> 01:04:08,930
But it wasn’t like a,
you know, ecological,

1200
01:04:09,930 --> 01:04:11,598
uh, political program
or something.

1201
01:04:11,598 --> 01:04:14,018
So that, that gave it
this kind of authenticity.

1202
01:04:18,605 --> 01:04:21,067
At first no news coverage
took it seriously.

1203
01:04:21,067 --> 01:04:24,153
And I leave you to check
for little green men

1204
01:04:24,153 --> 01:04:25,613
and flying saucers and...

1205
01:04:25,613 --> 01:04:27,532
And then when Reuters got hold
of it, it got very serious.

1206
01:04:27,532 --> 01:04:28,782
There was a bit of a buzz

1207
01:04:28,823 --> 01:04:30,702
and it was in the news
and everything.

1208
01:04:30,702 --> 01:04:33,745
You had people that knew
about the school from all over,

1209
01:04:34,205 --> 01:04:38,250
not just in Zimbabwe,
but it was all over the world.

1210
01:04:43,838 --> 01:04:45,423
On the other side
of the world,

1211
01:04:45,423 --> 01:04:48,510
an unusual visitor called into
a Zimbabwean playground.

1212
01:04:49,137 --> 01:04:50,597
Unexplained Mysteries;

1213
01:04:50,597 --> 01:04:53,723
Something major has
happened in Africa

1214
01:04:53,723 --> 01:04:56,477
a unique mass encounter
between aliens

1215
01:04:56,477 --> 01:04:58,103
and school children.

1216
01:04:59,688 --> 01:05:02,190
Hello, welcome back. Someone
who started off as a skeptic,

1217
01:05:02,190 --> 01:05:04,402
and you’re a Pulitzer prize
winner and all the rest of it,

1218
01:05:04,402 --> 01:05:05,737
have actually been convinced

1219
01:05:05,737 --> 01:05:07,447
that the people you interviewed
at great length

1220
01:05:07,447 --> 01:05:09,323
and talked to about
their encounters with aliens,

1221
01:05:09,365 --> 01:05:10,783
they were actually
telling the truth.

1222
01:05:10,783 --> 01:05:12,327
There is something out there
trying to contact us.

1223
01:05:12,327 --> 01:05:13,868
Yeah, there’s some kind
of authentic mystery here,

1224
01:05:13,868 --> 01:05:17,415
which my training in psychiatry
just hasn’t prepared me for.

1225
01:05:17,415 --> 01:05:18,623
With all the skill
that you have,

1226
01:05:18,623 --> 01:05:21,252
you’re a top American
psychiatrist at Harvard–you

1227
01:05:21,252 --> 01:05:23,462
would be able to tell
when people were telling fibs.

1228
01:05:23,462 --> 01:05:25,213
That’s what I’m supposed
to be trained to do,

1229
01:05:25,213 --> 01:05:26,965
is to distinguish
between fantasy,

1230
01:05:26,965 --> 01:05:30,052
dreams, psychosis,
or authentic experience.

1231
01:05:30,052 --> 01:05:32,972
And this is, has all the marks
of authentic experience.

1232
01:05:32,972 --> 01:05:34,723
So we just stared at it.

1233
01:05:34,723 --> 01:05:38,518
And we heard this flute,
sort of like a flute noise.

1234
01:05:38,518 --> 01:05:42,690
Then I saw this black figure
running in slow motion

1235
01:05:42,690 --> 01:05:45,442
and then I didn’t want
to see it, so I looked away.

1236
01:05:45,483 --> 01:05:48,653
And I looked again
and it wasn’t there anymore.

1237
01:05:48,653 --> 01:05:50,322
When you looked
at those children,

1238
01:05:50,907 --> 01:05:56,662
they were absolutely credible.
And you can look at their faces,

1239
01:05:56,828 --> 01:05:58,913
even on television
you can look at their faces

1240
01:05:58,913 --> 01:06:00,875
and know if they’re
bullshitting or not.

1241
01:06:00,917 --> 01:06:02,502
And they weren’t.

1242
01:06:03,043 --> 01:06:04,295
We came away convinced

1243
01:06:04,295 --> 01:06:06,713
that an extraordinary event
occurred here.

1244
01:06:06,713 --> 01:06:09,842
Uh, one of, uh, quite unique,
I think, in UFO history.

1245
01:06:10,802 --> 01:06:13,928
If there’s anything
that could convince a skeptical,

1246
01:06:13,928 --> 01:06:17,558
closed-minded public
that some kind of intelligence

1247
01:06:17,558 --> 01:06:19,685
that is not,
as the headmaster said,

1248
01:06:19,685 --> 01:06:22,855
"of this world", than this event
should persuade people.

1249
01:06:34,325 --> 01:06:39,163
I believe overall this
is a phenomenon of enormous

1250
01:06:39,163 --> 01:06:43,083
complexity, meaning, and value
for understanding of ourselves,

1251
01:06:43,083 --> 01:06:44,668
who we are in the universe.

1252
01:06:44,668 --> 01:06:47,253
And we’re just beginning
to grasp what this is about.

1253
01:06:47,505 --> 01:06:48,963
Welcome back
to Larry King Live.

1254
01:06:48,963 --> 01:06:51,758
He’s a Harvard psychiatrist
and though he was once skeptical

1255
01:06:51,758 --> 01:06:53,385
that beings visited
from other planets,

1256
01:06:53,385 --> 01:06:54,720
he now believes differently.

1257
01:06:55,178 --> 01:06:56,597
John Mack has been
a psychiatrist

1258
01:06:56,597 --> 01:06:59,015
at Harvard University
for more than 30 years now.

1259
01:06:59,015 --> 01:07:01,060
he won a Pulitzer Prize
two decades ago

1260
01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:04,813
for writing a psychological
biography of Lawrence of Arabia.

1261
01:07:04,813 --> 01:07:06,607
But these days his writings
have placed him

1262
01:07:06,648 --> 01:07:08,233
on the academic fringe.

1263
01:07:08,233 --> 01:07:10,235
Meet Dr. John Mack,

1264
01:07:10,235 --> 01:07:13,655
a believer in aliens
from outer space.

1265
01:07:13,655 --> 01:07:16,117
What would the academics
up at Harvard University

1266
01:07:16,117 --> 01:07:17,702
think about all this?

1267
01:07:17,702 --> 01:07:21,080
We started to hear that John
was getting to be in trouble.

1268
01:07:21,288 --> 01:07:23,748
His practice was beginning
to be largely

1269
01:07:23,748 --> 01:07:26,627
about the investigation
of these strange phenomena.

1270
01:07:27,293 --> 01:07:31,715
He had started support groups
so that the various people

1271
01:07:31,715 --> 01:07:35,677
who had reported
these strange phenomena

1272
01:07:35,677 --> 01:07:38,097
could hear the stories
from each other

1273
01:07:38,097 --> 01:07:40,808
and begin to feel
a little bit normal.

1274
01:07:40,808 --> 01:07:42,908
No matter how I looked at it,

1275
01:07:42,910 --> 01:07:45,145
they were talking the way people

1276
01:07:45,145 --> 01:07:47,815
talk about something
that's happened to them.

1277
01:07:48,398 --> 01:07:49,983
I was stuck with this dilemma.

1278
01:07:49,983 --> 01:07:52,695
what do you do at that point?
Do you say, Well, I’m sorry.

1279
01:07:52,695 --> 01:07:54,322
There’s got to be
some kind of mental illness

1280
01:07:54,322 --> 01:07:55,948
I’ve ever heard of before?

1281
01:07:55,948 --> 01:07:59,033
Or do you say maybe
what I thought was possible

1282
01:07:59,033 --> 01:08:00,410
wasn’t complete.

1283
01:08:00,452 --> 01:08:05,665
It seems to me it’s clinically
and humanly more honest

1284
01:08:05,707 --> 01:08:08,793
to say there’s something
I don’t know here

1285
01:08:08,793 --> 01:08:11,005
and to follow
your clinical instincts.

1286
01:08:11,172 --> 01:08:15,008
What did you say?
What did you tell your mom?

1287
01:08:15,843 --> 01:08:17,928
This is Kayleigh talking now.
Go ahead.

1288
01:08:17,928 --> 01:08:21,182
I said, "Mummy, I saw
an alien at school."

1289
01:08:21,182 --> 01:08:25,937
Then they, my mummy said, um,
she, my mum never believed me.

1290
01:08:25,937 --> 01:08:29,063
Yeah? Does that upset you when
your mom didn’t believe you?

1291
01:08:29,732 --> 01:08:31,692
Yeah. Sometimes.

1292
01:08:31,692 --> 01:08:33,068
Kayleigh!
Hi!

1293
01:08:33,068 --> 01:08:34,653
Hi!
How are you?

1294
01:08:34,653 --> 01:08:35,863
I’m good. How are you?

1295
01:08:35,863 --> 01:08:37,113
Good.

1296
01:08:37,113 --> 01:08:38,490
Oh, it’s so nice to see you.
I know!

1297
01:08:38,532 --> 01:08:39,742
How does it feel?

1298
01:08:39,742 --> 01:08:40,910
It’s crazy.

1299
01:08:40,910 --> 01:08:42,160
Right?
It is.

1300
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:43,578
So do you want
to take a little walk?

1301
01:08:43,578 --> 01:08:44,955
Oh, my gosh. And, I mean...

1302
01:08:44,955 --> 01:08:47,040
I know, we have to look.
OK, let’s look.

1303
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,627
OK.
I was trying to find mine.

1304
01:08:49,668 --> 01:08:52,755
And I’ve been looking
to find all my pieces

1305
01:08:52,755 --> 01:08:55,173
because I don’t have
my drawings as well.

1306
01:08:55,173 --> 01:08:56,675
See, like these ones
you can’t see.

1307
01:08:56,675 --> 01:08:59,303
I know!
That’s why I’m like, oh.

1308
01:08:59,845 --> 01:09:02,973
Right?
It’s not here.

1309
01:09:02,973 --> 01:09:05,058
Well, we could keep going.

1310
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:07,143
Tell me what you remember.

1311
01:09:08,228 --> 01:09:09,980
See, I was playing
rugby over here.

1312
01:09:10,730 --> 01:09:13,358
In this open part over here.
With the little boys.

1313
01:09:13,358 --> 01:09:14,610
Yeah.

1314
01:09:14,610 --> 01:09:16,320
And then all the logs
were down there.

1315
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:17,988
Were all here.

1316
01:09:19,573 --> 01:09:22,618
I don’t know why I remember a
huge tree like this down there.

1317
01:09:22,618 --> 01:09:25,037
Because that was,
that field wasn’t there.

1318
01:09:27,372 --> 01:09:31,460
This is where I kind of remember
it happening.

1319
01:09:33,170 --> 01:09:34,755
Like standing over there.

1320
01:09:35,422 --> 01:09:38,300
I then ran, I must have
run there, closer to...

1321
01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:40,760
I remember being close
to the tuck shop.

1322
01:09:41,803 --> 01:09:43,472
Well, that’s why,
I remember right here.

1323
01:09:43,472 --> 01:09:45,515
And I remember Lisil
and I right there.

1324
01:09:46,100 --> 01:09:49,937
So it must be there.
And, yeah.

1325
01:09:49,937 --> 01:09:51,647
Emily!

1326
01:09:51,647 --> 01:09:52,898
Yes

1327
01:09:52,898 --> 01:09:54,817
Ms. Bates found
some of the drawings.

1328
01:09:54,817 --> 01:09:56,110
Ms. Bates found
some of the drawings?

1329
01:09:56,110 --> 01:09:57,402
They’re in an envelop
on the desk.

1330
01:09:57,402 --> 01:09:59,280
Oh!

1331
01:09:59,655 --> 01:10:01,448
Up in the office there.

1332
01:10:01,448 --> 01:10:04,200
But I think there’s been
such a runaround this morning.

1333
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,162
They’re trying to do things.

1334
01:10:06,162 --> 01:10:07,705
They just let us know
they’re there.

1335
01:10:07,705 --> 01:10:09,248
Oh, how exciting.
Right?

1336
01:10:10,958 --> 01:10:12,292
I hope mine’s there.

1337
01:10:12,292 --> 01:10:13,877
I, I really hope
mine’s there, too.

1338
01:10:13,877 --> 01:10:15,212
I think they’re both there.

1339
01:10:15,212 --> 01:10:17,297
I haven’t opened anything.
I haven’t looked.

1340
01:10:18,465 --> 01:10:22,762
Oh, my gosh.
You must be kidding me!

1341
01:10:23,678 --> 01:10:25,932
I’m scared.

1342
01:10:25,932 --> 01:10:27,808
I’m kind of scared, too.

1343
01:10:27,808 --> 01:10:30,018
You don’t have to be scared.

1344
01:10:30,018 --> 01:10:32,478
OK, you open it with me.
Open it together.

1345
01:10:33,397 --> 01:10:34,732
We’ll do it together.

1346
01:10:35,773 --> 01:10:38,443
Let’s take a peek.

1347
01:10:46,035 --> 01:10:47,620
Oh, my gosh!
Oh, my gosh!

1348
01:10:47,620 --> 01:10:49,162
You see, I’m sure...

1349
01:10:49,162 --> 01:10:53,708
You can’t see it very nice,
but I’m sure this was the tree.

1350
01:10:54,502 --> 01:10:56,337
I’ve drawn this again.

1351
01:10:58,005 --> 01:11:01,717
Like, like, exactly like this.

1352
01:11:03,052 --> 01:11:04,970
You see silver
shining as well.

1353
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:06,222
Uh huh.

1354
01:11:06,222 --> 01:11:08,598
I mean, I said I saw,
like, a crazy light.

1355
01:11:08,598 --> 01:11:14,980
Oh, my gosh!
With this coming down.

1356
01:11:17,107 --> 01:11:20,360
I think
I blocked out a lot, man.

1357
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,070
You remember, and like we keep
saying, like,

1358
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:24,197
I think we blocked out a lot.

1359
01:11:24,197 --> 01:11:29,953
I really do as well.
Yeah. Holy shit!

1360
01:11:33,498 --> 01:11:35,375
Wow!

1361
01:11:35,375 --> 01:11:38,295
I know. Think it a lot of
people, like, didn’t believe us.

1362
01:11:47,178 --> 01:11:51,892
It’s beautiful.
It’s so peaceful.

1363
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,480
Yes.
I have the best memories here.

1364
01:11:57,480 --> 01:11:59,065
Me, too.
Of us.

1365
01:12:00,525 --> 01:12:02,152
I’ve been so terrible.

1366
01:12:02,152 --> 01:12:03,403
Well, Ms. Bates is,
she wants...

1367
01:12:03,445 --> 01:12:04,697
So terrible.

1368
01:12:04,697 --> 01:12:06,198
...she wants to see you.

1369
01:12:06,198 --> 01:12:07,992
She’s a, she’s a little hurt
because she feels like...

1370
01:12:07,992 --> 01:12:09,242
I know.

1371
01:12:09,283 --> 01:12:10,577
...the students have avoided
this place

1372
01:12:10,577 --> 01:12:11,828
for a such a long time.

1373
01:12:11,828 --> 01:12:13,330
Well, you see,
that’s the thing, is, like...

1374
01:12:13,330 --> 01:12:14,540
I know.

1375
01:12:14,540 --> 01:12:15,748
...what happened.

1376
01:12:15,748 --> 01:12:17,083
I know.

1377
01:12:17,083 --> 01:12:18,835
I think that’s why
I’ve never come back.

1378
01:12:18,835 --> 01:12:20,128
I don’t want to deal with...

1379
01:12:20,128 --> 01:12:21,380
Deal with it.

1380
01:12:21,380 --> 01:12:23,632
...coming here and remembering
all the stuff.

1381
01:12:23,632 --> 01:12:25,008
I think that’s honest,

1382
01:12:25,008 --> 01:12:26,927
the honest God’s truth
of why I didn’t come.

1383
01:12:26,927 --> 01:12:30,763
Yeah.
So 20 years later...

1384
01:12:33,975 --> 01:12:35,560
We still have the same story.

1385
01:12:36,603 --> 01:12:38,522
But that’s the funny thing,
is, like, I’m adamant

1386
01:12:38,522 --> 01:12:42,442
about this tree and the light.
And there on my picture,

1387
01:12:42,483 --> 01:12:45,445
which I don’t even remember
drawing, it’s there!

1388
01:12:45,445 --> 01:12:47,488
It’s there!
And I drew that.

1389
01:12:50,283 --> 01:12:52,035
I can’t wait to show my mum.

1390
01:12:54,830 --> 01:12:56,790
You have to see it
to believe it.

1391
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:58,667
If, if somebody’s a staunch
believer that it’s not,

1392
01:13:00,002 --> 01:13:01,587
how is me

1393
01:13:01,587 --> 01:13:04,213
telling them my experience
going to change what they think?

1394
01:13:04,213 --> 01:13:05,882
It will change
what they think about me.

1395
01:13:05,882 --> 01:13:08,177
It’s not going to change what
they think about the universe.

1396
01:13:08,177 --> 01:13:09,928
And I don’t need that.

1397
01:13:09,928 --> 01:13:13,515
But with 60 of us
all saying it together,

1398
01:13:14,015 --> 01:13:17,060
that will change what that one
person thinks of the universe.

1399
01:13:23,858 --> 01:13:26,153
Many of you are going to think
my guests today

1400
01:13:26,153 --> 01:13:27,905
have lost their minds

1401
01:13:28,072 --> 01:13:32,283
To be honest, their stories
do sounds really crazy.

1402
01:13:32,283 --> 01:13:34,787
But we were intrigued
by this man.

1403
01:13:34,787 --> 01:13:38,415
He is Dr. John Mack,
who does believe their stories.

1404
01:13:38,415 --> 01:13:41,835
The president’s lawyer said,
"What do you think it’s like

1405
01:13:41,835 --> 01:13:43,420
for the dean
for the medical school

1406
01:13:43,462 --> 01:13:46,757
to see one of his professors
on Oprah Winfrey

1407
01:13:46,757 --> 01:13:48,050
saying that men, women,

1408
01:13:48,050 --> 01:13:50,468
and children are being taken
by little green men?"

1409
01:13:51,345 --> 01:13:56,642
It does reflect, I think,
the anxiety that this caused.

1410
01:13:56,975 --> 01:13:58,602
Doctor, is the profession
embarrassed

1411
01:13:58,602 --> 01:14:01,605
when one of your colleagues
puts forward theories like this?

1412
01:14:01,605 --> 01:14:03,607
Oh, yes.
We’re very embarrassed.

1413
01:14:03,607 --> 01:14:05,025
Embarrassed for the profession

1414
01:14:05,025 --> 01:14:07,777
and a little worried
about John himself.

1415
01:14:07,777 --> 01:14:09,153
What?
He’s gone of the rails a bit?

1416
01:14:09,195 --> 01:14:13,575
Well, John is a man of great
gift and great intelligence,

1417
01:14:13,575 --> 01:14:15,118
but he’s also a man of,

1418
01:14:15,118 --> 01:14:16,953
who tends to take
on enthusiasms.

1419
01:14:16,953 --> 01:14:20,165
And this times he’s gone,
yeah, gone too far.

1420
01:14:20,165 --> 01:14:21,542
We’re worried about him.

1421
01:14:21,542 --> 01:14:25,503
We hope he’ll pull himself
together, come back.

1422
01:14:27,463 --> 01:14:31,760
I sensed that I ought to try
to get ahead of the curl on,

1423
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,970
on the high exposure that I had.

1424
01:14:34,513 --> 01:14:35,888
But I was too late.

1425
01:14:35,888 --> 01:14:38,350
There was something afoot.

1426
01:14:38,892 --> 01:14:41,102
They were putting together
a committee

1427
01:14:41,102 --> 01:14:45,815
to look into the work
and see if I had maintained

1428
01:14:45,815 --> 01:14:48,318
the standards
of the Harvard Medical School.

1429
01:14:49,653 --> 01:14:52,238
I am, uh, Arnold Relman.

1430
01:14:52,238 --> 01:14:53,823
I am a physician.

1431
01:14:54,658 --> 01:14:57,327
I was asked by the dean
of the Harvard Medical School

1432
01:14:57,327 --> 01:15:01,748
to look into John’s activities
in view of all the publicity

1433
01:15:01,748 --> 01:15:05,335
and the fact that John was using
the Harvard Medical School’s

1434
01:15:05,335 --> 01:15:06,920
name quite liberally,

1435
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:08,547
and implied
the Harvard Medical School

1436
01:15:08,547 --> 01:15:11,007
was somehow sponsoring
what he was doing,

1437
01:15:11,007 --> 01:15:13,468
the dean wanted to know,
what is he doing?

1438
01:15:14,762 --> 01:15:17,305
His research is
shattering preconceptions

1439
01:15:17,305 --> 01:15:18,848
about alien abductions.

1440
01:15:18,890 --> 01:15:21,893
He’s studied over 100 people
and is convinced

1441
01:15:21,893 --> 01:15:23,270
they are telling the truth.

1442
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:24,688
John, you have
a very high profile.

1443
01:15:24,730 --> 01:15:26,940
And the fact that you’re
a professor at Harvard tends

1444
01:15:26,940 --> 01:15:28,317
to make people believe you.

1445
01:15:28,358 --> 01:15:30,110
And do you think you could be
seriously misleading people

1446
01:15:30,110 --> 01:15:31,820
about what’s going on here?

1447
01:15:31,820 --> 01:15:37,867
The concern is what is his
relationship to the subjects?

1448
01:15:37,867 --> 01:15:42,705
Is their psychological welfare
being protected?

1449
01:15:43,582 --> 01:15:48,420
And is this a violation of
medical standards?

1450
01:16:11,277 --> 01:16:13,028
I miss this place so much.

1451
01:16:13,653 --> 01:16:16,407
You know, just after talking
to Ms. Hwacha

1452
01:16:16,448 --> 01:16:18,867
and, you know, just kids
and the school.

1453
01:16:18,867 --> 01:16:20,368
Because we were
listening to music.

1454
01:16:20,368 --> 01:16:21,662
And the music in the...

1455
01:16:21,662 --> 01:16:25,248
You tear up.
I’m like, what’s going on?

1456
01:16:26,917 --> 01:16:29,127
It’s a horrible feeling
to feel alone.

1457
01:16:31,253 --> 01:16:33,923
But you've got us now.
You’ve got the whole Ariel

1458
01:16:33,923 --> 01:16:36,968
family, like, everybody’s there,
like, looking out for you.

1459
01:16:36,968 --> 01:16:39,387
Tracy said he’ll be
on the other side.

1460
01:16:39,387 --> 01:16:42,473
And everybody’s there for you.
Everybody’s looking out for you.

1461
01:16:44,852 --> 01:16:47,728
God, I needed that,
you know, so badly.

1462
01:16:55,278 --> 01:16:59,240
They forget that there’s a human
being behind all of this

1463
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,410
and nobody asked
for it to happen.

1464
01:18:25,243 --> 01:18:26,828
There’s Lisil.

1465
01:18:26,828 --> 01:18:31,750
Lisil, Fungai, Grant.
I remember her, too.

1466
01:18:33,710 --> 01:18:36,253
I remember the face,
but I don’t remember the name.

1467
01:18:43,678 --> 01:18:46,180
There are many people
who probably are not going

1468
01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:47,848
to believe certain things

1469
01:18:47,848 --> 01:18:50,268
until they happen
to them, period.

1470
01:18:51,478 --> 01:18:54,605
That probably is even
more pronounced in the West

1471
01:18:54,647 --> 01:18:56,232
compared to many other cultures

1472
01:18:57,608 --> 01:19:01,112
because we have advanced
so far technologically,

1473
01:19:01,112 --> 01:19:03,448
because our technology,
which is, you know,

1474
01:19:03,448 --> 01:19:06,993
based in science
is so dramatically powerful

1475
01:19:06,993 --> 01:19:09,620
that people start thinking
that must be all there is.

1476
01:19:11,205 --> 01:19:15,002
A lot of the criticism
about John and John’s work

1477
01:19:15,710 --> 01:19:19,547
pre-supposed
that it was simply impossible

1478
01:19:20,132 --> 01:19:22,717
that people could be visited
by aliens,

1479
01:19:22,717 --> 01:19:24,135
that aliens even exist,

1480
01:19:24,677 --> 01:19:29,390
To reduce knowledge of reality
to purely the physical world,

1481
01:19:29,390 --> 01:19:34,020
what about the whole emotional
world, the spiritual world.

1482
01:19:34,020 --> 01:19:35,938
When you go into
subatomic reality,

1483
01:19:35,980 --> 01:19:37,273
there is not material world.

1484
01:19:37,273 --> 01:19:39,985
There’s only possibility
and probability.

1485
01:19:39,985 --> 01:19:43,238
The new findings in physics,
if you take them seriously,

1486
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,240
are just as undermining
of the dominant worldview

1487
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,993
as anything I’m talking about.

1488
01:19:48,993 --> 01:19:50,328
Baloney!

1489
01:19:50,328 --> 01:19:52,580
Old-fashioned physics,
new-fashioned physics,

1490
01:19:52,580 --> 01:19:54,707
quantum mechanics,
string theory,

1491
01:19:54,707 --> 01:19:56,208
you got to have evidence.

1492
01:19:56,208 --> 01:19:58,628
You have to be able
to measure something.

1493
01:19:58,628 --> 01:20:04,467
I am morally
and virtually certain

1494
01:20:05,552 --> 01:20:07,137
that what we’re dealing with

1495
01:20:07,137 --> 01:20:11,432
is some kind of internal
psychological phenomenon.

1496
01:20:11,432 --> 01:20:13,935
It is inconceivable to me

1497
01:20:13,935 --> 01:20:16,647
that these people
are being abducted by aliens.

1498
01:20:16,647 --> 01:20:17,938
If they were,

1499
01:20:17,938 --> 01:20:21,568
then the whole world
as we know it is upside down.

1500
01:20:23,237 --> 01:20:26,823
Harvard University was
the kind of global champion

1501
01:20:26,823 --> 01:20:29,408
of the classical
liberal worldview.

1502
01:20:30,368 --> 01:20:34,455
And that he was trying to
propose an alternative worldview

1503
01:20:34,455 --> 01:20:37,667
with the reality of
extra-terrestrial intelligence.

1504
01:20:39,335 --> 01:20:42,255
A worldview is
a kind of psychic glue.

1505
01:20:42,963 --> 01:20:44,548
It sort of orients you.

1506
01:20:45,175 --> 01:20:47,385
It’s what allows people to think
they know

1507
01:20:47,385 --> 01:20:50,638
who they are in the worlds
that matter to us, family,

1508
01:20:51,305 --> 01:20:54,267
groups that we’re in,
institutions, schools.

1509
01:20:57,145 --> 01:20:59,647
What’s possible
is a matter of worldview.

1510
01:21:00,565 --> 01:21:02,317
A culture decides what’s real.

1511
01:21:02,317 --> 01:21:04,402
What’s real in this culture
is completely different

1512
01:21:04,402 --> 01:21:06,362
than what’s true
in other cultures.

1513
01:21:09,950 --> 01:21:13,328
I really think human egoism
in the broadest sense

1514
01:21:13,328 --> 01:21:14,955
is what is at stake,

1515
01:21:15,663 --> 01:21:18,583
our sense of value,
our sense of who we are.

1516
01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:22,962
Are we powerful, are we in
charge of our own fate.

1517
01:21:24,380 --> 01:21:28,718
Freud said there’s three
big blows to human egoism.

1518
01:21:28,718 --> 01:21:34,015
And the first was the discovery
by Copernicus and Galileo

1519
01:21:34,015 --> 01:21:37,768
that the Earth was not
at the center of the cosmos.

1520
01:21:37,810 --> 01:21:42,565
Second was Darwin’s finding that
we’re not particularly different

1521
01:21:42,565 --> 01:21:46,485
from the other animal species.
Freud claimed his was the third,

1522
01:21:46,485 --> 01:21:50,282
that we’re not really in charge
of our own individual lives.

1523
01:21:50,282 --> 01:21:52,658
And this, I think,
could be a fourth.

1524
01:21:52,658 --> 01:21:55,203
We’re far from being
the most intelligent

1525
01:21:55,203 --> 01:21:58,415
or advanced creatures
in the cosmos.

1526
01:22:04,878 --> 01:22:08,300
I think in the broad scheme
of things,

1527
01:22:09,175 --> 01:22:12,053
it’s not a socially
good thing to do.

1528
01:22:12,053 --> 01:22:15,640
It promotes
the cult of mysticism

1529
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,768
and magic and superstition.

1530
01:22:18,810 --> 01:22:21,062
You know, the X-File
kind of mentality.

1531
01:22:21,062 --> 01:22:23,398
They’re, they’re out there
and the government won’t,

1532
01:22:23,398 --> 01:22:25,650
won’t let us find out about it.

1533
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:27,860
It’s childish.

1534
01:22:27,860 --> 01:22:30,530
And it’s not good
for the American public.

1535
01:22:33,367 --> 01:22:35,643
Why should this
be so remarkable

1536
01:22:35,645 --> 01:22:37,787
when we claim to believe in God

1537
01:22:37,787 --> 01:22:39,247
and all kinds of spirits,

1538
01:22:39,288 --> 01:22:42,458
and yet there’s something about
this one which takes a form

1539
01:22:42,458 --> 01:22:44,627
that is particularly
disturbing to us?

1540
01:22:45,628 --> 01:22:47,463
There’s a lot of harrumphing
that goes on.

1541
01:22:47,505 --> 01:22:50,592
"Well, we don’t really want
to be identified

1542
01:22:50,633 --> 01:22:52,427
with this kind of science.

1543
01:22:52,427 --> 01:22:56,263
It’s OK to be identified
with other bizarre views

1544
01:22:56,263 --> 01:23:00,602
that might emanate.
But we have our limits, too."

1545
01:23:00,602 --> 01:23:03,397
Remember, we’re a university
that has a divinity school.

1546
01:23:04,272 --> 01:23:06,357
We know the boundaries.

1547
01:23:06,357 --> 01:23:09,943
Theology is OK,
but extra-terrestrials, no.

1548
01:23:09,943 --> 01:23:12,155
Angels, yes.
Extra-terrestrials, no.

1549
01:23:15,950 --> 01:23:19,245
Let’s just sit down
and rationally,

1550
01:23:19,245 --> 01:23:20,913
objectively talk it through,

1551
01:23:20,913 --> 01:23:23,500
because there’s a lot
we don’t understand.

1552
01:23:24,542 --> 01:23:27,878
there’s a lot we worship
in our various religions

1553
01:23:29,005 --> 01:23:31,758
that’s meaningful
and inexplicable.

1554
01:23:33,968 --> 01:23:36,387
You can’t just rule stuff
out willy-nilly

1555
01:23:36,387 --> 01:23:41,392
because there is a magical side
of life that is very precious.

1556
01:23:44,437 --> 01:23:46,272
I’m a Christian in my beliefs,

1557
01:23:46,272 --> 01:23:48,525
but that doesn’t mean to say
that I think,

1558
01:23:48,567 --> 01:23:50,152
um, there’s no other types of,

1559
01:23:50,735 --> 01:23:53,028
or forms of life
that exist in the universe.

1560
01:23:53,362 --> 01:23:58,283
There is a God, but there’s
also other things around

1561
01:23:59,327 --> 01:24:01,287
that can’t be explained.

1562
01:24:01,287 --> 01:24:05,250
You know?
It’s, it’s another creature.

1563
01:24:07,210 --> 01:24:09,003
They teach you there’s
no such things as aliens

1564
01:24:09,003 --> 01:24:11,505
because, I mean,
God created just human beings.

1565
01:24:11,505 --> 01:24:14,592
That’s what I was taught;
that’s what I grew up thinking.

1566
01:24:14,592 --> 01:24:17,428
The universe is so big
so I can’t completely say

1567
01:24:17,428 --> 01:24:18,972
it’s fact
that there’s no such thing

1568
01:24:18,972 --> 01:24:21,850
as life outside
of Earth’s solar system.

1569
01:24:22,558 --> 01:24:24,143
The universe is a beautiful,
strange place

1570
01:24:24,143 --> 01:24:27,355
and we’re just human beings
and we can’t know everything.

1571
01:24:29,648 --> 01:24:32,235
Maybe we don’t have
the capacity to understand it.

1572
01:24:33,193 --> 01:24:38,282
We may be just exploring
the limited reaches of space.

1573
01:24:39,658 --> 01:24:43,455
Beyond that we absolutely know
nothing in terms of life

1574
01:24:43,455 --> 01:24:46,248
or how life exists elsewhere.

1575
01:24:47,292 --> 01:24:49,793
Maybe it’s too disturbing.

1576
01:24:53,130 --> 01:24:56,633
In the beginning of my
going public with this,

1577
01:24:56,633 --> 01:25:01,347
I received absolutely
no general acceptance.

1578
01:25:01,347 --> 01:25:04,100
There were no particular
advantages to be gained

1579
01:25:04,100 --> 01:25:05,935
and every disadvantage.

1580
01:25:05,935 --> 01:25:08,522
And there were assaults
from every direction

1581
01:25:08,522 --> 01:25:11,065
in terms of the main part
of my profession.

1582
01:25:12,608 --> 01:25:13,902
If it was an opportunity,

1583
01:25:13,902 --> 01:25:16,612
it was an opportunity
to commit professional suicide.

1584
01:25:18,447 --> 01:25:20,032
It’s a dirty subject.

1585
01:25:21,075 --> 01:25:23,327
If you want to sustain
a career in the BBC

1586
01:25:23,368 --> 01:25:25,663
after having been
in many war zones,

1587
01:25:26,455 --> 01:25:29,167
you don’t suddenly come up
with a UFO story

1588
01:25:30,125 --> 01:25:32,253
which was absolutely waterproof.

1589
01:25:33,170 --> 01:25:37,133
Then they just said, "No.
Tim’s suffering from the stress

1590
01:25:37,133 --> 01:25:39,052
and the strains
of all the war zones he’s done.

1591
01:25:39,093 --> 01:25:42,055
He’s lost the plot.
He’s gone bonkers."

1592
01:25:43,598 --> 01:25:49,770
I think that’s when my career
with the BBC ended.

1593
01:25:51,730 --> 01:25:56,818
Gone. I think I, I,
I lost my credibility,

1594
01:25:56,862 --> 01:25:59,280
because you don’t talk
about these things.

1595
01:26:05,662 --> 01:26:06,872
When I was in residency,

1596
01:26:06,872 --> 01:26:10,250
John’s office
was on the main floor

1597
01:26:10,250 --> 01:26:12,918
of the psychiatric wing.

1598
01:26:12,918 --> 01:26:14,878
When I came back in 2004

1599
01:26:14,878 --> 01:26:17,382
his office was offsite.

1600
01:26:17,382 --> 01:26:19,967
And I actually took that
as a sort of metaphor

1601
01:26:19,967 --> 01:26:24,138
for him being pushed out
and extruded in a certain sense.

1602
01:26:25,557 --> 01:26:29,352
Finally the dean of the
medical school wrote a letter

1603
01:26:29,893 --> 01:26:34,648
to John basically apologizing
and saying that they were,

1604
01:26:34,690 --> 01:26:37,777
that it was unfortunate
that he had misconstrued

1605
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,447
what it was
that they were trying to do.

1606
01:26:40,988 --> 01:26:45,033
And as I say, and reiterated
this totally foolish position

1607
01:26:45,033 --> 01:26:47,703
that they had that all the dean
was trying to do

1608
01:26:47,703 --> 01:26:51,582
was to get some information
so he could respond to calls

1609
01:26:51,582 --> 01:26:53,083
that he was getting.

1610
01:26:53,083 --> 01:26:55,545
And so that they ended up
dropping the entire thing

1611
01:26:56,212 --> 01:26:57,672
and letting him go back

1612
01:26:57,672 --> 01:26:59,965
to doing his normal work
at the university.

1613
01:27:01,342 --> 01:27:05,095
I accept, Dr. Mack’s
statements at face value.

1614
01:27:05,095 --> 01:27:08,850
He is inquiring and probing and
he has the right to be wrong.

1615
01:27:08,850 --> 01:27:12,895
The most fundamental right that
any academic has

1616
01:27:12,895 --> 01:27:17,650
is the right to be wrong.
Prove that he’s wrong.

1617
01:27:17,650 --> 01:27:19,360
That’s the job
of other academics.

1618
01:27:20,862 --> 01:27:23,990
He became the iconic figure
of someone

1619
01:27:24,032 --> 01:27:26,783
from inside a major institution

1620
01:27:26,783 --> 01:27:29,203
who was willing
to take the risks

1621
01:27:29,203 --> 01:27:32,665
and pay the consequences
for what he believed in.

1622
01:27:33,917 --> 01:27:38,295
My respect for Dr. John Mack
for his courage,

1623
01:27:38,295 --> 01:27:40,798
for the difficulties
that he’s undergone.

1624
01:27:40,798 --> 01:27:44,843
And I think any human being
would have to admit

1625
01:27:44,843 --> 01:27:47,055
that if the UFO phenomenon

1626
01:27:47,097 --> 01:27:49,932
is occurring
as the reports suggest,

1627
01:27:49,932 --> 01:27:52,602
it’s the most important
event in human history.

1628
01:28:35,060 --> 01:28:38,230
We’re going
to Canada with you.

1629
01:28:38,230 --> 01:28:40,608
We can fit in one suitcase!

1630
01:28:42,235 --> 01:28:43,987
I’m going to miss you
when you go.

1631
01:28:43,987 --> 01:28:45,988
You’re going to miss me
when I go?

1632
01:28:45,988 --> 01:28:47,240
Yes!

1633
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:49,325
Oh, my gosh!
I’m going to miss all of you!

1634
01:28:51,618 --> 01:28:53,788
I really thank you
for everything.

1635
01:28:53,788 --> 01:28:56,207
I know, I felt so welcome here.

1636
01:28:57,042 --> 01:28:58,960
We do our best.
Yes.

1637
01:29:00,962 --> 01:29:04,715
Healing process, eh?
Come on, you’ll be fine.

1638
01:29:04,757 --> 01:29:07,843
I know.
Absolutely fine.

1639
01:30:06,568 --> 01:30:08,237
Mommy!

1640
01:30:16,578 --> 01:30:19,457
It’s a very precious
thing to me,

1641
01:30:20,332 --> 01:30:22,418
to be able to have
this drawing again

1642
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:28,173
and look at it
and say after 21 years

1643
01:30:28,173 --> 01:30:31,052
I’m still depicting it
exactly the same way

1644
01:30:31,802 --> 01:30:34,097
and I can put it
with the rest of them.

1645
01:30:35,263 --> 01:30:39,185
I have probably over 300 pieces
and it started here.

1646
01:30:43,982 --> 01:30:47,527
I don’t know what it means
for me further down the road,

1647
01:30:48,110 --> 01:30:49,695
but I feel more confident.

1648
01:30:50,738 --> 01:30:54,825
It’s a stepping stone forward
to go out, show my art,

1649
01:30:54,867 --> 01:30:57,745
share my story,
and feel good about it.

1650
01:31:00,748 --> 01:31:03,333
With my family, they’ve been
extremely supportive

1651
01:31:03,333 --> 01:31:05,335
throughout this whole thing.
And they’ve understood

1652
01:31:05,335 --> 01:31:07,922
that this is something
that I’ve had to go through.

1653
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:11,717
My mother has started
speaking a bit about it.

1654
01:31:14,012 --> 01:31:18,057
My father for the first time at
the dinner table brought it up.

1655
01:31:18,682 --> 01:31:22,395
But I don’t know
if this is something

1656
01:31:22,395 --> 01:31:26,940
that they’ll ever be able
to accept completely,

1657
01:31:26,940 --> 01:31:30,528
but I know that they love me
and they trust me.

1658
01:31:31,487 --> 01:31:34,907
They know because they were
there that something happened.

1659
01:31:53,592 --> 01:31:56,678
I’d like to introduce to you,
Emily Trim,

1660
01:31:56,678 --> 01:32:01,017
one of the witnesses
at Ruwa, Zimbabwe, in 1994.

1661
01:32:10,860 --> 01:32:13,278
"That was the day
my world shattered.

1662
01:32:14,697 --> 01:32:16,032
And my outlook on the world

1663
01:32:16,032 --> 01:32:18,242
became something
completely brand new to me.

1664
01:32:19,618 --> 01:32:21,870
I’m thankful for going through
such a process

1665
01:32:21,912 --> 01:32:25,207
and a journey in life
which has led me to discover,

1666
01:32:25,875 --> 01:32:27,793
look deeper into the meanings
of things,

1667
01:32:27,793 --> 01:32:29,378
and become more self-aware.

1668
01:32:30,545 --> 01:32:33,507
And I appreciate you taking
the time to allow me to speak

1669
01:32:34,300 --> 01:32:37,052
and thank you for
your understanding in something

1670
01:32:37,052 --> 01:32:38,595
so very personal."

1671
01:32:56,780 --> 01:32:59,450
I don’t know why
it had to be Ruwa,

1672
01:33:00,492 --> 01:33:04,497
a small, rural, farming town.
I truly don’t.

1673
01:33:06,915 --> 01:33:11,920
But for whatever reason, it did.
It, it happened.

1674
01:33:14,882 --> 01:33:16,550
I’d like to know
what we’d seen

1675
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:19,970
and find out what it wanted.

1676
01:33:21,055 --> 01:33:24,308
Why us? Why us kids?
You know?

1677
01:33:27,268 --> 01:33:29,688
It was a wonderful
experience actually,

1678
01:33:30,397 --> 01:33:31,815
because I know definitely

1679
01:33:31,815 --> 01:33:34,277
I’m not going to see
something like that ever again.

1680
01:33:34,277 --> 01:33:35,862
Maybe. Who knows?

1681
01:33:36,945 --> 01:33:40,282
And it’s something that I will
pass on to my kids one day.

1682
01:33:43,702 --> 01:33:46,163
They might be just here
as observers.

1683
01:33:48,582 --> 01:33:51,668
We’re just an interesting part
of the local community,

1684
01:33:51,710 --> 01:33:55,088
like we go to safari in Africa

1685
01:33:55,088 --> 01:33:57,967
or see this other creature
that is unique to that world.

1686
01:34:05,850 --> 01:34:07,810
For some people it is scary,
very scary,

1687
01:34:07,810 --> 01:34:12,357
because it kind of
makes them feel humanity

1688
01:34:12,398 --> 01:34:15,358
is not in complete control
of our destinies

1689
01:34:16,652 --> 01:34:19,363
and we think we are the dominant
species on the planet.

1690
01:34:19,488 --> 01:34:21,782
But maybe, maybe we are the
dominant species on the planet,

1691
01:34:21,782 --> 01:34:23,283
but maybe not
the dominant species

1692
01:34:23,283 --> 01:34:24,868
in this corner of the universe.

1693
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:29,957
I think it’s certainly
open-minded.

1694
01:34:29,957 --> 01:34:33,585
I think it’s a bit arrogant
to say that we are the only life

1695
01:34:33,585 --> 01:34:35,503
in the galaxy or the universe.

1696
01:34:36,380 --> 01:34:39,550
Yeah, I think it’s good to speak
about it, speak about it.

1697
01:34:40,092 --> 01:34:43,470
If there was one experience
I’d like to relive,

1698
01:34:43,470 --> 01:34:45,848
it would be
that particular experience.

1699
01:34:47,182 --> 01:34:49,268
I don’t really say
"I swear, man! It was there!"

1700
01:34:49,268 --> 01:34:50,560
That sort of thing, you know?

1701
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,103
Like, you don’t
have to believe me.

1702
01:34:52,103 --> 01:34:53,355
I’m sure a lot of people

1703
01:34:53,355 --> 01:34:55,440
who’ve seen it
barely believe themselves.

1704
01:34:56,692 --> 01:34:58,693
I don’t think that
the answer’s out there.

1705
01:34:58,693 --> 01:35:02,948
I don’t think that I’m going to
find an answer from Googling it

1706
01:35:02,990 --> 01:35:05,283
or from talking
to others about it.

1707
01:35:05,283 --> 01:35:09,997
I think it’s a, it’s a, it’s
a long story, is the answer.

1708
01:35:09,997 --> 01:35:13,542
I think the answer will come
maybe in this lifetime,

1709
01:35:13,542 --> 01:35:15,627
maybe in the next.
I don’t know.

1710
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:22,383
I’m glad I was there.
It really stretched my mind

1711
01:35:23,218 --> 01:35:28,932
and gave me a new perspective
on life, the universe,

1712
01:35:28,932 --> 01:35:30,683
and everything, really.

1713
01:35:30,683 --> 01:35:32,812
I would not have missed that
for the world.

1714
01:35:35,857 --> 01:35:37,442
That’s all I can say.

1715
01:37:40,188 --> 01:37:41,565
Would you like to
see him again?

1716
01:37:42,148 --> 01:37:42,858
Yes.

1717
01:37:42,858 --> 01:37:44,443
You would like to
see him again.

1718
01:37:44,693 --> 01:37:46,862
And if you saw him again,
what would you do?

1719
01:37:47,445 --> 01:37:49,030
I’ll ask him some questions.

1720
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:51,158
What would you like
to ask him?

1721
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,660
I’ll ask him what is
he doing on earth

1722
01:37:53,660 --> 01:37:55,412
and what does he want
with us?