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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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-The best entertainment
I could possibly imagine.

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-None other than psychic
tarot card reader Miss Cleo.

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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-Find out what I see for you.

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Call me now
for a free tarot reading.

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-"Call me now."
-"Call me now."

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-"Call me now."
-"Call me now."

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-"Call me now."
-"Call me now."

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-"Call me now."
-"Call me now."

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-Don't make me take you
to church, young man.

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-She had such a presence.

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-Those commercials were epic
and legendary.

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-You have questions.
I have the answers.

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-She did things that no one else
would be able to do.

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-Oh, my God, I cannot believe
how right you are!

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-She was so relaxed in it,

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so you bought it hook,
line, and sinker.

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-This is amazing me.

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-It's okay. It amazes me
every time I do it, too.

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-Who's this woman?
What is this commercial?

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-What country are you from?

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What mystical tradition
are you working in?

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-There is more than one man.
-Uh-huh.

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-Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
-[ Laughs ]

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That shit is bomb.
-Why does she have an accent?

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-Wasn't she arrested for fraud?
Didn't she goes to jail?

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-Scammers gonna scam.
[ Laughs ]

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-And everybody had an opinion
about who she was,

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but they had no idea.

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-Her personal identity
was a real struggle for her.

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-What's really going on here?
Who is this person?

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Don't be fooled by thinking what
you know is the whole story.

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-So what's --
what's the real deal?

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♪♪

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♪♪

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I was 12 years old in 1997

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when Miss Cleo
first got on the airwaves.

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The '90s for me,
that is television shows

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in the height of sitcoms...

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-Monica's gonna totally
freak out!

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-...just like, really,
really warm and inviting.

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-Have no fear.
The Urk man is here.

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-But there were
so many commercials.

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You couldn't skip them.

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-Let's play Furby Says.
-[ Babbles ]

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-Commercials in the '90s
were saccharine sweet.

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-Commercials and infomercials --
specifically infomercials --

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were on the rise.
-BeDazzler --

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the kit that can change
your wardrobe

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from dull to daring.

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-Wrap and snap your hair
into the perfect bun.

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-Take it to the max
with Glow Pens.

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-My problem with
most exercise programs

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is finding time to do them.

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-The Internet was
in its infancy,

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and people used their phones
to dial all these hotline.

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-A 1-800 or 1-900,
you called --

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Now, I never did
this, Mom or Dad.

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This never happened.
I don't know how I know this.

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You know what I mean?
But you call,

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and it's either to talk
to somebody, to get information,

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and they charged you per minute.

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It's all going
on your parents' tab.

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You don't necessarily know
how much you're racking up

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because it wasn't like minutes
like it is now.

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-You now could, at that time,

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get information
about any industry,

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any hobby that you wanted --
sports information...

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-Dial 1-900-860-4GAME.

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-...jokes.
-♪ This is Dial an Insult ♪

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-If you call me right now,
I'll give you my private number

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-...pick-up line,
telling you where to meet girls,

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how to meet them,
and what to say.

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-Psychic hotline
was something new.

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-Psychic hotlines were huge.

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-Psychic Readers Network --
so many good reasons to call.

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-Congratulations.
You recently got engaged?

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-I just got engaged
two weeks ago.

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-Well, you better hope
she doesn't find out

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that you spent last Sunday night
with your old girlfriend.

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[ Dial tone ]
-Oh! Ooh! Hello?

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-They could be your soothsayer
and your therapist.

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-I felt like she was just right
with me

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and knew my life as soon
as I picked up the phone.

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-By the end of the conversation,

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I found -- it felt like
I had a friend.

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-By the time I hung up the
phone, I was very pumped up.

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-There were four or five
psychic networks out there,

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all pitching the --
the same thing

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in pretty much the same way.

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-There's a psychic
on every corner.

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You can call psychics,

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you can go see a psychic,
and whatever.

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But there was something
about Cleo.

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-If you've never seen
a Miss Cleo infomercial,

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I beg you to go to YouTube.

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♪♪

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-If your love life has trouble,
the power of the tarot can help.

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Call me
for your free reading now.

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There is a secret, baby --
you understand me?

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-Yes.
-...in this relationship.

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The situation
that we're looking at

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that is one
of another relationship.

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Let me stop trying to be polite.
You understand me?

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And the secret is yours,
is it not?

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-He was with someone else.
-And you are, too.

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-Miss Cleo
was a psychic advisor,

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and she read tarot cards.

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-"Girl, no, he didn't."
"Yes."

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Like, I felt like I was watching
a "Maury" episode,

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but, like, just her.

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-You were feeling as if she was
cheating on you, weren't you?

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-Yeah, I did.
-That's 'cause she was.

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-It was the best Insta Live
you could have had in 1997.

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It was so good.
So good.

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-If anyone watched TV
after midnight

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from, like, '99 to, like, 2002
or whatever,

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like, you knew
who Miss Cleo was.

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-Well, you never know where
Miss Cleo is going to show up.

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I'm on TV, I'm on the radio,
and sometimes, like today,

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I'm on TV
while I'm on the radio.

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-There's a dynamic energy
to her,

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and there's a presence to her.

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-I guess I would
describe it as charisma.

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-She's entertaining.

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She's got the look.

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-All right, go ahead.
-I recently divorced.

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-Mm-hmm.
Congratulations.

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-Thank you.
-[ Laughs ]

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-The thing that stood out about
the infomercial was her accent.

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-Look at those faces.
Those are beautiful faces.

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-It was clear that she was
appropriating the accent

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and that it wasn't
an authentic Jamaican accent.

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-She was quick on the draw.

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She would take these
sort of ordinary questions

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and launch into sort of,
like, very funny,

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very unexpected sort of spiels

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about whatever
the topic at hand was.

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-Who asked you to go out
of town, the stupid young one,

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or the married one?
-The married one.

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-That's what me thought.
Don't go. You hear me?

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-This was like the girlfriend
you invited over for coffee --

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your Black friend that you
invited over for coffee.

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She was like, "Mm,
honey, I told you.
I could have told you this.

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Oh, yeah, no, no.
No, that's the one.
He's been cheating on you.

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Oh, see, I'm gonna tell you
the real deal."

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They didn't just want to hear
about the future.

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They wanted what she gave,

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which other psychics and
other infomercials didn't give.

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She gave you the truth.

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-I don't want you
nowhere around him --

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not in his car,
not in his presence.

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Your mother would have
a proverbial fit.

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I once had gone from him.
You understand?

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-Yes, ma'am.
-I don't know that much

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about who she was.

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I don't know that much
about what her actual

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mystical abilities were
or weren't.

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I don't really believe in,
like, psychics or magic,

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but I do think that there are
certain people who are, like,

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good at being able to talk to
someone and sort of understand

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who they are
in an instinctive way

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and be able to give advice
in a way that feels magical.

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-I believe everyone has the
ability to tap into an energy

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that allows you to connect
to other humans.

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Some people practice it
a little bit more,

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so they're able to
really see auras and understand

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the human energy field

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and understand what chakras
are moving and what's not --

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you know,
this whole new-age practice.

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So when I saw Miss Cleo,
I did believe.

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-With the help of the spirits
and my tarot cards,

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I can see your life even more
clearly than you can yourself.

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-At that point,
she was inscrutable.

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We didn't know enough
about her personal life.

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We didn't know anything
about what she did prior.

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-Who's the real Miss Cleo,
right?

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Who is the real Miss Cleo?

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-There was a documentary
came out called "Hotline"

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that she was on,
so she was hoping

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that she would
be interviewed enough

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so people would see
that she was the real thing.

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It was actually filmed
in my living room at the house.

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-[ Speaking indistinctly ]

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Check your focus.

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Oh, you look wonderful.
-Oh, thank you.

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[ Both laugh ]

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My name is
Youree Dell Cleomili Harris.

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I'm also known as Miss Cleo.

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I am a trained priestess.

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I have many ways and abilities
to divine information.

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I absolutely commune and chat
with those on the other side.

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Some call them the dead.
Some call them spirits.

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[ Laughs ]

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But absolutely,
with the energies

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and the vibrations of those
that have crossed over.

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I would not call myself a medium

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because it is so much broader
than that for me.

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For me, it is a belief system.

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Some may even label it
a religion.

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-She would claim
she was a voodoo priestess.

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That's what her job was.

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-You know, people say, "Oh, I
don't -- I don't agree with you

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about this, that and the other,"
and I'll say, "Well, that's not

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what your aunt is saying,"
or whoever the spirit is

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that's come over, or, "That's
not what your dad is saying,"

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you know, and --
and more over than not,

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people hear that,
and there is a sense of peace.

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And -- And the spirits are
always so wonderful to me

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because they always give me
a piece of information

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that makes that connection.

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-You could sit down with her,

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and she could give you
the most insight

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on what is troubling
you the most.

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And you don't
have to say anything.

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She could see it.

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-She was disciplined
in her practice.

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She made sure she meditated.
She kept her altar.

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She'd think that
that really helped her

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manage her relationship
with the spirit world.

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-This poor woman.

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She was very, very, very hurt
in life.

224
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And two things happen.

225
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You either want to hurt others
when you're treated like that,

226
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or you decide
that you want to help others.

227
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And I felt that she wanted to be
the person that helped people.

228
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-Cleo could read people. She
could look at you and clock you.

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And I think when she knew
that she was in the presence

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of people that were open,
she would want to kind of go in

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and see what she could pull out
and also kind of teach you.

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-She started telling me about
my uncle that had passed away.

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I never mentioned my uncle.

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She was so specific
about his death

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and things
that he was accused of.

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See, this was not even a story
that I knew.

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I had to call my mother
when this was all over and said,

238
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"Cleo said this and this.
Does this make any sense?"

239
00:10:56,260 --> 00:10:59,861
She goes, "Oh, yeah,
that makes a lot of sense."

240
00:10:59,930 --> 00:11:02,230
-She had told me
about my friend Dolly --

241
00:11:02,299 --> 00:11:04,299
that her presence
was there with us.

242
00:11:04,368 --> 00:11:07,535
Dolly had passed away
at a very young age.

243
00:11:07,604 --> 00:11:09,238
She had said, "She's here,"

244
00:11:09,307 --> 00:11:10,906
said,
"She's holding something up.

245
00:11:10,975 --> 00:11:13,040
She wants you
to know she's okay.

246
00:11:13,109 --> 00:11:15,845
You worry about her. You think
about her all the time.

247
00:11:15,914 --> 00:11:17,345
She gave you something
to remember her,

248
00:11:17,414 --> 00:11:20,815
and she's holding up
something silver."

249
00:11:20,884 --> 00:11:23,185
Dolly gave me
a little silver ring.

250
00:11:23,254 --> 00:11:24,619
I still carry it.

251
00:11:24,688 --> 00:11:27,122
And it was pretty remarkable.

252
00:11:27,191 --> 00:11:29,485
-One of my fraternity brothers
came over.

253
00:11:29,554 --> 00:11:31,292
She said that, you know,
"I see

254
00:11:31,361 --> 00:11:34,295
you're gonna have a problem
with the left side of your body.

255
00:11:34,364 --> 00:11:36,063
You're gonna be numb,
the left side of your body.

256
00:11:36,132 --> 00:11:38,366
Something's gonna happen,"
and, like, two weeks later,

257
00:11:38,435 --> 00:11:39,935
he had a stroke

258
00:11:40,004 --> 00:11:42,904
and was paralyzed
on that side of his body.

259
00:11:42,973 --> 00:11:45,440
She saw it happening.

260
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:50,010
-Everyone perceived something
different from Cleo.

261
00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:53,315
I think that was, like, one
of the mysteries of Cleo.

262
00:11:53,384 --> 00:11:58,253
-But not everyone had
the same experience.

263
00:11:58,322 --> 00:12:03,391
♪♪

264
00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:07,266
[ Boat horn blowing ]

265
00:12:11,863 --> 00:12:15,303
-Seattle has a thriving
Black arts scene.

266
00:12:15,372 --> 00:12:19,908
We've always had tons and tons
of amazing performing artists.

267
00:12:19,977 --> 00:12:23,311
-You know,
Seattle is a small city,

268
00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:25,414
and it has
a small Black community.

269
00:12:25,483 --> 00:12:29,517
And Langston Hughes
was the center for that.

270
00:12:29,586 --> 00:12:32,354
I was the director.
I was in charge of the space.

271
00:12:32,423 --> 00:12:36,491
So we developed a season
of theater

272
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,160
and performing arts events.

273
00:12:38,229 --> 00:12:41,796
She was known for doing plays.

274
00:12:41,865 --> 00:12:44,727
She wrote plays,
and she directed plays.

275
00:12:44,796 --> 00:12:46,368
She made an arrangement
with us here

276
00:12:46,437 --> 00:12:48,436
at the -- at the facility
to produce a play,

277
00:12:48,505 --> 00:12:51,005
and she brought in
a lot of the actors,

278
00:12:51,074 --> 00:12:54,509
and the play was regarded
as a good production --

279
00:12:54,578 --> 00:12:58,413
good enough that I asked her
to be a part of the season.

280
00:12:58,482 --> 00:13:02,417
-I remember her as Ree --
Ree Perris.

281
00:13:02,486 --> 00:13:05,220
Ree was short for Youree.

282
00:13:05,289 --> 00:13:09,257
It always sounded made up to me.

283
00:13:09,326 --> 00:13:11,292
But I'm also the type of person
that's like,

284
00:13:11,361 --> 00:13:13,462
"Who am I to question,
you know?"

285
00:13:13,531 --> 00:13:16,198
I remember being comfortable
with her.

286
00:13:16,267 --> 00:13:18,333
I thought she was
a really nice lady,

287
00:13:18,402 --> 00:13:21,035
really interesting,
a little eccentric.

288
00:13:21,104 --> 00:13:24,639
-Having a character like that
moving through the space

289
00:13:24,708 --> 00:13:27,670
gave us all something
to laugh and joke about.

290
00:13:27,739 --> 00:13:29,978
-She could turn
into a character,

291
00:13:30,047 --> 00:13:32,613
you know, in conversation.

292
00:13:32,682 --> 00:13:35,511
You know, she could do
different things with her voice.

293
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:39,121
But as far as everyday speaking,

294
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:43,224
she did not have
a Jamaican accent.

295
00:13:43,293 --> 00:13:47,563
And I don't recall
if she ever gave any indication

296
00:13:47,632 --> 00:13:50,035
that she was Jamaican.

297
00:13:51,102 --> 00:13:52,533
I don't know.

298
00:13:52,602 --> 00:13:54,436
I want to say St. Louis
or something,

299
00:13:54,505 --> 00:13:56,805
but I don't know --
like, Midwest.

300
00:13:56,874 --> 00:13:59,140
And we didn't even ask
back then.

301
00:13:59,209 --> 00:14:04,512
-Miss Cleo is a character
that was born out of a play

302
00:14:04,581 --> 00:14:09,718
that Youree was working on
here at Langston Hughes

303
00:14:09,787 --> 00:14:13,054
called "For Women Only"
that she was to play.

304
00:14:13,123 --> 00:14:18,526
And so that idea
of this Jamaican shaman psychic

305
00:14:18,595 --> 00:14:21,531
was really birthed
out of a character

306
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,398
that she was working on

307
00:14:23,467 --> 00:14:27,302
when she spent a time here
in Seattle.

308
00:14:27,371 --> 00:14:31,806
She was under contract
and was paid her base amount,

309
00:14:31,875 --> 00:14:36,611
and then it was up to her to pay
the actors and different people

310
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,314
that she was gonna involve in
the productions.

311
00:14:39,383 --> 00:14:41,716
It was several thousand dollars,

312
00:14:41,785 --> 00:14:45,154
and she got the check
and never paid people.

313
00:14:45,223 --> 00:14:48,858
-They were pretty pissed off.

314
00:14:48,927 --> 00:14:50,392
-There was more excuses

315
00:14:50,461 --> 00:14:54,196
than there was actually
follow through.

316
00:14:54,265 --> 00:14:58,299
I think that she mentioned
having cancer at some point.

317
00:14:58,368 --> 00:15:00,268
You don't want
to not believe somebody

318
00:15:00,337 --> 00:15:02,070
when they're saying
that they're ill

319
00:15:02,139 --> 00:15:04,172
and they have something
going on.

320
00:15:04,241 --> 00:15:06,575
But things started
to not add up.

321
00:15:06,644 --> 00:15:10,111
-There were some challenges with
her relationships with people.

322
00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:12,114
I didn't know her, really,
right?

323
00:15:12,183 --> 00:15:14,715
I trusted in
her artistic pursuits.

324
00:15:14,784 --> 00:15:19,054
So there's a lot of mystery
around her time at Langston.

325
00:15:19,123 --> 00:15:21,056
There was a lot unknown.

326
00:15:21,125 --> 00:15:23,358
All I know is that
one day she was here,

327
00:15:23,427 --> 00:15:27,228
we did some cool plays,
and then she was gone.

328
00:15:27,297 --> 00:15:29,865
-And no one ever heard
from her again.

329
00:15:29,934 --> 00:15:35,303
♪♪

330
00:15:35,372 --> 00:15:37,238
-Caution -- a tarot card reading

331
00:15:37,307 --> 00:15:39,040
may be very personal
and intense.

332
00:15:39,109 --> 00:15:40,976
Be prepared
for amazing revelations.

333
00:15:41,045 --> 00:15:43,178
Call for your
free tarot reading now.

334
00:15:43,247 --> 00:15:45,613
-I came to work for the Hotline
as a suggestion

335
00:15:45,682 --> 00:15:50,252
from my sister-in-law
for a source of income

336
00:15:50,321 --> 00:15:52,520
that would work
with my schedule.

337
00:15:52,589 --> 00:15:54,389
And so she said,
"Well, you should go

338
00:15:54,458 --> 00:15:56,658
on one of those psychic lines."
And I was like, "Really?

339
00:15:56,727 --> 00:15:58,760
Those commercials
are really silly, you know?"

340
00:15:58,829 --> 00:16:02,630
I said, "I don't know. I..."
And she's like, "Just try it.

341
00:16:02,699 --> 00:16:04,700
If you don't like it,
you don't like it."

342
00:16:04,769 --> 00:16:06,068
-Psychic Readers Network,

343
00:16:06,137 --> 00:16:09,570
-We're talking '98, '99.

344
00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:13,542
We both were behind the camera
with the Psychic Network

345
00:16:13,611 --> 00:16:18,346
for about a year
before she became Miss Cleo.

346
00:16:18,415 --> 00:16:21,984
-We had a nice host,
and she was wonderful,

347
00:16:22,053 --> 00:16:23,484
but we were losing her,

348
00:16:23,553 --> 00:16:26,889
and they just didn't know
what they were going to do.

349
00:16:26,958 --> 00:16:28,656
They bring in this white woman

350
00:16:28,725 --> 00:16:30,592
that looks like
she's straight out of Boca.

351
00:16:30,661 --> 00:16:33,061
She's telling stories
and flipping cards,

352
00:16:33,130 --> 00:16:34,829
and nothing made any sense.

353
00:16:34,898 --> 00:16:37,499
I mean, we don't know.
We -- we're not tarot readers.

354
00:16:37,568 --> 00:16:41,802
And Cleo sees this commercial,
and she just goes nuts.

355
00:16:41,871 --> 00:16:44,706
It's like, "What?
What -- What are they doing?"

356
00:16:44,775 --> 00:16:46,174
Talks to the producer
and saying,

357
00:16:46,243 --> 00:16:48,010
"I was watching television,

358
00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:51,312
and I see
your latest commercial.

359
00:16:51,381 --> 00:16:52,647
It doesn't make any sense."

360
00:16:52,716 --> 00:16:55,450
So they hired Cleo
to come backstage with us

361
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,220
to set the deck, so we hired
actors, we had writers,

362
00:16:59,289 --> 00:17:00,721
but nothing looked right.

363
00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:04,125
Nothing sounded right.
It looked staged -- sound stage.

364
00:17:04,194 --> 00:17:05,795
The worst acting
you've ever seen.

365
00:17:05,864 --> 00:17:06,996
It was horrible.

366
00:17:07,065 --> 00:17:08,630
-Amazing Accuracy.

367
00:17:08,699 --> 00:17:10,832
-Psychics who are friendly,
who care.

368
00:17:10,901 --> 00:17:14,002
-They're trying different hosts.
Nothing's working.

369
00:17:14,071 --> 00:17:16,038
They're looking everywhere.

370
00:17:16,107 --> 00:17:19,574
So they hire Cleo
to host a show.

371
00:17:19,643 --> 00:17:23,312
-When they approached me
about being a spokesperson,

372
00:17:23,381 --> 00:17:26,147
my first initial response was,

373
00:17:26,216 --> 00:17:28,918
"I have a reputation
to maintain.

374
00:17:28,987 --> 00:17:30,785
I really can't.
I don't want to.

375
00:17:30,854 --> 00:17:35,290
You know, I don't think that
you all take it seriously."

376
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,459
Now, this is me
being on the line,

377
00:17:37,528 --> 00:17:40,961
recognizing now
that this is a business.

378
00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:44,532
And I thought, "Well, it would
be nice to do a commercial

379
00:17:44,601 --> 00:17:47,936
where people actually
can get some feedback.

380
00:17:48,005 --> 00:17:50,072
And I said, "Look, I'm gonna --

381
00:17:50,141 --> 00:17:51,940
you can put a camera
in front of me.

382
00:17:52,009 --> 00:17:56,144
I'm gonna do what I do at home.
I'm gonna read my cards.

383
00:17:56,213 --> 00:17:57,679
You can't tell me
how to read my cards.

384
00:17:57,748 --> 00:17:59,581
You can't tell me
when to read my cards.

385
00:17:59,650 --> 00:18:01,444
You can't tell me
what formation to use.

386
00:18:01,513 --> 00:18:04,586
I'm gonna read my cards. If
it works for you all, fabulous.

387
00:18:04,655 --> 00:18:07,690
If it doesn't,
it's all right with me."

388
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:08,989
-Caller?
-Yes.

389
00:18:09,058 --> 00:18:12,327
-Oh, hello. How are you today?
-Fine. How are you?

390
00:18:12,396 --> 00:18:14,796
-I'm doing absolutely
fabulous, darling.

391
00:18:14,865 --> 00:18:16,197
Can I get your --
-Wonderful, darling.

392
00:18:16,266 --> 00:18:18,734
-[ Laughs ]
I like you already.

393
00:18:18,803 --> 00:18:20,469
-And it blew up.

394
00:18:20,538 --> 00:18:23,939
-It was an infomercial.
[ Laughs ]

395
00:18:24,008 --> 00:18:25,840
That's where my head was at.

396
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:29,277
It was no --
literally, no big deal.

397
00:18:29,346 --> 00:18:31,413
If you want him to believe
that it's over,

398
00:18:31,482 --> 00:18:33,448
then you got to stop accepting
the booty calls

399
00:18:33,517 --> 00:18:34,950
at 2:00 a.m. in the morning.

400
00:18:35,019 --> 00:18:36,485
You understand?
-Yeah.

401
00:18:36,554 --> 00:18:39,454
-She didn't have to sell hard,
'cause her thing was,

402
00:18:39,523 --> 00:18:42,590
"You can come to me or not,
but I do have the answers."

403
00:18:42,659 --> 00:18:44,988
Let me take you back
five months.

404
00:18:45,057 --> 00:18:46,561
He got out
and cussed somebody out,

405
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:48,864
fi taking him parking space,
did he not?

406
00:18:48,933 --> 00:18:50,198
-Yeah. Oh, my Lord.

407
00:18:50,267 --> 00:18:51,766
-The conversations
that she's having

408
00:18:51,835 --> 00:18:54,535
on the phone are just like,
"You got that right,

409
00:18:54,604 --> 00:18:56,471
and you got that right
and you got that --

410
00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:57,840
and you got that right?"

411
00:18:57,909 --> 00:19:00,341
-The greatest numbers
they've ever had

412
00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:02,377
in the history
of the Psychic Network.

413
00:19:02,446 --> 00:19:07,148
Within two months
of that one show,

414
00:19:07,217 --> 00:19:09,818
everybody knew
who Miss Cleo was.

415
00:19:09,887 --> 00:19:14,857
-It is my pleasure to welcome
the one and only Miss Cleo.

416
00:19:14,926 --> 00:19:16,887
[ Cheers and applause ]

417
00:19:16,956 --> 00:19:18,393
[ Both speaking indistinctly ]

418
00:19:18,462 --> 00:19:19,794
-How you doing, sweetness?

419
00:19:19,863 --> 00:19:21,862
-I'm doing fine.
The question is, how are you?

420
00:19:21,931 --> 00:19:24,799
I can't go anywhere without
hearing your name or seeing you.

421
00:19:24,868 --> 00:19:26,668
-Yeah, it's a little bit
painful, huh?

422
00:19:26,737 --> 00:19:30,238
-I was doing her makeup
on the set when we met.

423
00:19:30,307 --> 00:19:33,174
-It was an experience.
She was so big --

424
00:19:33,243 --> 00:19:35,244
her voice, everything about her.

425
00:19:35,313 --> 00:19:37,345
-You couldn't help
but just pay attention

426
00:19:37,414 --> 00:19:39,581
to everything that she said.

427
00:19:39,650 --> 00:19:41,917
-Whose mother is this that I see
that seems to have

428
00:19:41,986 --> 00:19:44,553
a great deal to input.
-It's his mother.

429
00:19:44,622 --> 00:19:47,722
-Aha! Now we're getting down
to the good stuff.

430
00:19:47,791 --> 00:19:51,493
-I remember that -- that young
producer saying to me, he said,

431
00:19:51,562 --> 00:19:54,429
"You realize now that your life

432
00:19:54,498 --> 00:19:57,432
is not ever going
to be the same."

433
00:19:57,501 --> 00:19:59,467
-We're very excited
to have our next guest here.

434
00:19:59,536 --> 00:20:01,068
Her voice is as familiar
as her face,

435
00:20:01,137 --> 00:20:04,005
and her expert psychic advice
is just a phone call away.

436
00:20:04,074 --> 00:20:08,310
Please welcome shaman
and author Miss Cleo!

437
00:20:08,379 --> 00:20:10,645
-Miss Cleo can't
possibly be taking

438
00:20:10,714 --> 00:20:12,681
the whole world's calls,
you know?

439
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:15,350
Even if you are
calling and getting a psychic,

440
00:20:15,419 --> 00:20:17,613
it's certainly
not gonna be Miss Cleo.

441
00:20:17,682 --> 00:20:21,189
-Our operators are standing by
right now to receive your call.

442
00:20:21,258 --> 00:20:22,990
Our phone lines are open.

443
00:20:23,059 --> 00:20:28,230
-21 years ago, in 2001, I worked
for the Psychic Readers Network

444
00:20:28,299 --> 00:20:31,499
for one summer
as a phone psychic.

445
00:20:31,568 --> 00:20:33,301
My roommate had just been
looking in the back

446
00:20:33,370 --> 00:20:36,871
of the "Village Voice" for stuff
that we could do to make money.

447
00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:39,507
The first one she found,
actually, was for phone sex,

448
00:20:39,576 --> 00:20:40,876
and we thought
that seemed great.

449
00:20:40,945 --> 00:20:43,545
But the phone sex people
wouldn't hire us

450
00:20:43,614 --> 00:20:45,646
because young people
would always quit

451
00:20:45,715 --> 00:20:47,282
the phone sex jobs
after two days

452
00:20:47,351 --> 00:20:49,884
because, like, it turns out,
like, it's very disturbing work.

453
00:20:49,953 --> 00:20:54,189
-I found out about PRN
through a little flier

454
00:20:54,258 --> 00:20:58,359
that was put in my door,
and there was an advertisement

455
00:20:58,428 --> 00:21:01,063
if I could do readings
over the phone.

456
00:21:01,132 --> 00:21:04,333
So I contacted
and was hired on the spot.

457
00:21:04,402 --> 00:21:06,701
I was there
at the very beginning.

458
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:10,705
-I met the owners of the place.
That's who hired me.

459
00:21:10,774 --> 00:21:13,241
There was no interview.
There was nothing.

460
00:21:13,310 --> 00:21:16,979
"What's your name? That's nice.
Go. That desk is open.

461
00:21:17,048 --> 00:21:20,950
Sit there."
That's how I got hired.

462
00:21:21,019 --> 00:21:23,651
-I was unemployed.

463
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,023
I saw "telephone psychic"
in the newspaper, and I thought,

464
00:21:28,092 --> 00:21:29,557
"Wow, that sounds fun."

465
00:21:29,626 --> 00:21:33,428
I had been reading tarot cards
as a teenager

466
00:21:33,497 --> 00:21:35,630
for friends and stuff.
I'm like, "Sure."

467
00:21:35,699 --> 00:21:38,199
-They were looking for Jamaicans
'cause they realized that

468
00:21:38,268 --> 00:21:41,770
the Jamaican accent was --
people were willing to
spend more money.

469
00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:43,805
It wasn't a hard job to get.

470
00:21:43,874 --> 00:21:45,940
-Call me now
for a free tarot reading.

471
00:21:46,009 --> 00:21:48,671
We fought constantly
because they wanted me to say,

472
00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:52,613
"Call me now," and I would say,
"But they're not calling me.

473
00:21:52,682 --> 00:21:55,850
They're calling
all of these other people."

474
00:21:55,919 --> 00:22:00,455
But, you know,
by then, I was in a contract.

475
00:22:00,524 --> 00:22:02,052
-So this is how it worked.

476
00:22:02,121 --> 00:22:03,625
First of all, remember, again,

477
00:22:03,694 --> 00:22:05,827
this was 2001,
so we had a landline.

478
00:22:05,896 --> 00:22:08,829
They would route calls through
to your landline phone.

479
00:22:08,898 --> 00:22:11,567
So what you would do is
you'd dial in

480
00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:13,936
to, like, a 1-800 number,

481
00:22:14,005 --> 00:22:15,870
and that would put you
in the system.

482
00:22:15,939 --> 00:22:18,140
You would listen to a recording,
saying, like,

483
00:22:18,209 --> 00:22:21,310
"Welcome to the network.
You're logged in now."

484
00:22:21,379 --> 00:22:25,346
You hang up, and you would start
waiting for the calls to come.

485
00:22:25,415 --> 00:22:26,747
-I was working in an office.

486
00:22:26,816 --> 00:22:29,551
There were six of us
at the time.

487
00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:32,554
-They said we're gonna be
wearing these headsets,

488
00:22:32,623 --> 00:22:34,689
and when the phone calls
would come in,

489
00:22:34,758 --> 00:22:38,493
it was up for us then
to be ready to do a reading

490
00:22:38,562 --> 00:22:40,761
and, to the best of our ability,

491
00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:42,959
to stay on the phone
with people.

492
00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:44,399
That was the instruction.

493
00:22:44,468 --> 00:22:47,869
He started running ads where
the first 3 minutes were free.

494
00:22:47,938 --> 00:22:51,439
-Our lines are wide open.
Call in now for a free reading.

495
00:22:51,508 --> 00:22:53,140
-Try us right now for free.

496
00:22:53,209 --> 00:22:57,079
-In that 3 minutes, we had to
get their names and addresses,

497
00:22:57,148 --> 00:22:59,709
and then the next day,
we'd have to call in

498
00:22:59,778 --> 00:23:03,653
all the names and addresses
so they'd have a large roster

499
00:23:03,722 --> 00:23:06,458
for mailings for advertising.

500
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:12,661
-People were calling, paying
an outrageous sum to talk to me.

501
00:23:12,730 --> 00:23:14,629
People always ask me, like,

502
00:23:14,698 --> 00:23:16,431
"Oh, were you trained
for this job?"

503
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,966
No, there was no training.

504
00:23:18,035 --> 00:23:19,800
-The training that I received
when I started the job

505
00:23:19,869 --> 00:23:22,503
was mainly
just to go over the script.

506
00:23:22,572 --> 00:23:24,974
-"Welcome to the Psychic Readers
Network.

507
00:23:25,043 --> 00:23:27,209
Thank you for calling.
I'm Eileen."

508
00:23:27,278 --> 00:23:29,005
I got to use my real name.

509
00:23:29,074 --> 00:23:31,080
"And I'm here to give you

510
00:23:31,149 --> 00:23:34,316
your very own personalized
tarot reading.

511
00:23:34,385 --> 00:23:35,650
So let's begin."

512
00:23:35,719 --> 00:23:40,089
-Miss Cleo people
didn't know a damn thing.

513
00:23:40,158 --> 00:23:42,190
They knew nothing.
They weren't psychics.

514
00:23:42,259 --> 00:23:43,691
They read from a book.

515
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,688
They didn't know
what they were talking about.

516
00:23:45,757 --> 00:23:48,796
You called them, and they opened
their book, and they said,

517
00:23:48,865 --> 00:23:52,234
"I feel you have a problem.
What is the problem?

518
00:23:52,303 --> 00:23:55,236
Why are you calling?
I feel this about you.

519
00:23:55,305 --> 00:23:56,672
You are disturbed about..."

520
00:23:56,741 --> 00:23:58,707
All this was in a book.

521
00:23:58,776 --> 00:24:01,511
They gave them more garbage,
and they got paid.

522
00:24:01,580 --> 00:24:03,511
That was it.

523
00:24:03,580 --> 00:24:06,114
-The script was total crap.

524
00:24:06,183 --> 00:24:08,649
-Main reason people call
is 'cause of love,

525
00:24:08,718 --> 00:24:10,513
and there was a term --
"money or honey."

526
00:24:10,582 --> 00:24:12,720
They're either calling
about money or love.

527
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:15,089
-Did you have a particular
question for me, Hope?

528
00:24:15,158 --> 00:24:17,526
-Um, yes, I have a question
about this relationship

529
00:24:17,595 --> 00:24:19,060
what I'm in.
-Uh-huh?

530
00:24:19,129 --> 00:24:21,130
-We have two different
lifestyle, and I want to know,

531
00:24:21,199 --> 00:24:23,899
like, will it last,
or should I move on?

532
00:24:23,968 --> 00:24:27,669
-People are open on the phone.

533
00:24:27,738 --> 00:24:30,338
It's almost like a confessional.

534
00:24:30,407 --> 00:24:32,474
There was a couple that called,

535
00:24:32,543 --> 00:24:36,515
and the debate
was about oral sex.

536
00:24:38,415 --> 00:24:39,682
[ Laughs ]

537
00:24:39,751 --> 00:24:42,783
And they wanted me to referee.

538
00:24:42,852 --> 00:24:45,753
There was no reading
needed here.

539
00:24:45,822 --> 00:24:48,723
They had the wrong 800 number,
wrong 900 number.

540
00:24:48,792 --> 00:24:51,225
I don't know,
but they were cute.

541
00:24:51,294 --> 00:24:53,461
-Most of the people who call
didn't care if I was psychic.

542
00:24:53,530 --> 00:24:56,631
They really just wanted someone
to talk to and give them advice.

543
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:58,299
They just wanted
to tell me their problems

544
00:24:58,368 --> 00:25:02,904
and have someone to talk to
and have me be a sounding board.

545
00:25:02,973 --> 00:25:06,174
-When I went to become
their spokesperson,

546
00:25:06,243 --> 00:25:10,412
I still took calls on the
hotline for another six months.

547
00:25:10,481 --> 00:25:14,148
In order to stay in a high
priority on the phone line,

548
00:25:14,217 --> 00:25:18,786
your phone calls needed
to average 18 minutes or more.

549
00:25:18,855 --> 00:25:23,158
The objective was not
to help someone quickly.

550
00:25:23,227 --> 00:25:25,727
It was to drag it out.

551
00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:27,196
-So if you were able to keep
people on the phone

552
00:25:27,265 --> 00:25:30,331
for a really long time,
you would get more calls.

553
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,001
Usually, I did a fake voice.

554
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:34,169
I realized quickly that, like,

555
00:25:34,238 --> 00:25:39,040
if I pretended to be a woman,
it did go better.

556
00:25:39,109 --> 00:25:41,837
I had Cassandra, who was, like,
sort of, like, Southern.

557
00:25:41,906 --> 00:25:43,945
I mean, I'm sure it's, like,
totally offensive to people

558
00:25:44,014 --> 00:25:45,781
who are actually
from the American South.

559
00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:47,249
"Thank you
for calling the network.

560
00:25:47,318 --> 00:25:49,845
This is Cassandra speaking.
How may I help you?

561
00:25:49,914 --> 00:25:52,888
Hmm. Every day we're faced
with so many choices in life.

562
00:25:52,957 --> 00:25:54,617
I cannot tell you
what the future holds,

563
00:25:54,686 --> 00:25:56,425
but on the road of life,
we're always presented

564
00:25:56,494 --> 00:25:59,059
with forks in the road,
and when we come to a fork,

565
00:25:59,128 --> 00:26:02,525
we must be prepared for
the choices that we must make."

566
00:26:02,594 --> 00:26:04,131
She was popular.
People liked Cassandra.

567
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,834
But, like, you can only do
a voice like that for so long,

568
00:26:06,903 --> 00:26:08,904
especially if you're, like,
chain smoking

569
00:26:08,973 --> 00:26:10,539
while you're doing it,
which I was.

570
00:26:10,608 --> 00:26:13,174
Myself was, like, a strange
thing to be as a phone psychic

571
00:26:13,243 --> 00:26:17,312
because it was very obvious,
I think, that I was just a kid.

572
00:26:17,381 --> 00:26:19,414
We were given instructions
about what to do

573
00:26:19,483 --> 00:26:21,416
if people did ask for Miss Cleo.

574
00:26:21,485 --> 00:26:22,784
"Oh, hold on just a second.

575
00:26:22,853 --> 00:26:24,286
Like, let me go see
if I can find her."

576
00:26:24,355 --> 00:26:26,621
Like, put down the phone
and, like, walk around

577
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:29,824
and be, "Oh, Miss Cleo!
Miss Cleo, like, can you come?

578
00:26:29,893 --> 00:26:31,393
Like, uh, someone wants
to talk to you,"

579
00:26:31,462 --> 00:26:33,160
and then, like, you're supposed
to do that for as long

580
00:26:33,229 --> 00:26:35,964
as you possibly could
and then come back and be like,

581
00:26:36,033 --> 00:26:37,598
"Oh, I'm sorry.
She went to lunch or something

582
00:26:37,667 --> 00:26:41,570
and she's not here. Like, you're
gonna have to talk to me today."

583
00:26:41,639 --> 00:26:43,638
[ Dial tone ]

584
00:26:43,707 --> 00:26:46,641
-You know you made it big when
people are making fun of you.

585
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:50,546
When people are making fun
of you, you're golden, girl.

586
00:26:50,615 --> 00:26:53,248
[ Telephone rings ]

587
00:26:53,317 --> 00:26:56,779
[ Laughter ]

588
00:26:56,848 --> 00:27:01,589
-Miss Talula on the line,
ready to tell your future.

589
00:27:01,658 --> 00:27:03,024
-When I was doing
"That's So Raven,"

590
00:27:03,093 --> 00:27:06,394
it was fun to be able to create
that character

591
00:27:06,463 --> 00:27:11,433
loosely based around her,
but Raven's version.

592
00:27:11,502 --> 00:27:14,530
There must have been a super fan
of Miss Cleo's

593
00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:17,139
on our writing staff
at the time.

594
00:27:17,208 --> 00:27:19,941
-Call me now!
Call me psychics!

595
00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:22,044
It was also something new
and fresh,

596
00:27:22,113 --> 00:27:24,146
and there were many eyes
going to there,

597
00:27:24,215 --> 00:27:25,714
so everybody wanted
a piece of it.

598
00:27:25,783 --> 00:27:29,718
-Dave Chappelle's
Educated Guess Line.

599
00:27:29,787 --> 00:27:31,486
-Hold up.
I'm seeing something.

600
00:27:31,555 --> 00:27:33,689
It's your parents.
-Oh, God.

601
00:27:33,758 --> 00:27:36,257
-They're angry -- real angry.

602
00:27:36,326 --> 00:27:39,960
They kicked you out for dating
a Black dude, didn't they?

603
00:27:40,029 --> 00:27:41,930
-Oh, my God, there's no way
you could have known that

604
00:27:41,999 --> 00:27:43,232
unless you knew me.

605
00:27:43,301 --> 00:27:45,367
-Or if I dated
four white girls myself.

606
00:27:45,436 --> 00:27:47,569
Thanks for playing.
[ Dial tone ]

607
00:27:47,638 --> 00:27:49,238
-Call me now, darling.

608
00:27:49,307 --> 00:27:52,741
-Actually, your accent sounded
a little like Ireland

609
00:27:52,810 --> 00:27:54,409
for a minute there.

610
00:27:54,478 --> 00:27:56,745
[ Telephone rings ]

611
00:27:56,814 --> 00:27:58,346
-♪ Call me now ♪

612
00:27:58,415 --> 00:27:59,815
♪ C-Call me now ♪

613
00:27:59,884 --> 00:28:01,283
♪ C-C-C-Call me now ♪

614
00:28:01,352 --> 00:28:04,686
-Princess Destiny.
Your future is my commission.

615
00:28:04,755 --> 00:28:07,689
-Ooh, that was
my 173rd call today.

616
00:28:07,758 --> 00:28:09,659
I'm starting to believe
in myself.

617
00:28:09,728 --> 00:28:11,426
-Hello, darling.

618
00:28:11,495 --> 00:28:14,129
This is Miss Cleo
coming to live from our studio.

619
00:28:14,198 --> 00:28:16,798
-When MADtv said, "Okay,
we're gonna start

620
00:28:16,867 --> 00:28:23,867
doing some Miss Cleo parodies,"
it was not so much about her

621
00:28:24,742 --> 00:28:26,942
more than it was
about the predictions.

622
00:28:27,011 --> 00:28:28,977
How do we have fun with that?

623
00:28:29,046 --> 00:28:32,480
-Hello. Is -- Is this Cleo?
-Yes, baby, it is.

624
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:35,850
-Oh, honey, you're the one
that can see into the future?

625
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:37,853
-Yes, darling,
you got the right Cleo.

626
00:28:37,922 --> 00:28:39,188
-Oh, honey, can --

627
00:28:39,257 --> 00:28:41,690
can I ask you a questions.
-Go on.

628
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:44,760
-Was you working
on September the 10th?

629
00:28:44,829 --> 00:28:47,262
[ Laughter ]

630
00:28:47,331 --> 00:28:49,298
-Hey, Miss Cleavon,
I'm no psychic,

631
00:28:49,367 --> 00:28:51,932
but I got a feeling you're not
even from the islands.

632
00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:54,903
-Oh, don't be messing
with Miss Cleavon now.

633
00:28:54,972 --> 00:28:56,505
I don't know
what you're talking about.

634
00:28:56,574 --> 00:28:59,308
Miss Cleavon is from Jamaica.

635
00:28:59,377 --> 00:29:04,879
-With Miss Cleo, I thought
of her character as intriguing.

636
00:29:04,948 --> 00:29:08,383
I was drawn to her
because you don't see,

637
00:29:08,452 --> 00:29:11,921
at least at that time, you
didn't see many representations,

638
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:13,221
first of all, of Black women,

639
00:29:13,290 --> 00:29:16,090
but specifically
of Jamaican Black women.

640
00:29:16,159 --> 00:29:20,428
And so as a Jamaican, she
immediately caught my attention.

641
00:29:20,497 --> 00:29:24,834
-The light of truth will not
be denied. Call now.

642
00:29:24,903 --> 00:29:27,169
-I guess on some level
was the question

643
00:29:27,238 --> 00:29:30,872
"Why is this person
impersonating a Jamaican?"

644
00:29:30,941 --> 00:29:33,008
-If she just had
a New York accent

645
00:29:33,077 --> 00:29:35,911
or, you know,
a Wisconsin accent,

646
00:29:35,980 --> 00:29:38,113
it would feel inauthentic.

647
00:29:38,182 --> 00:29:40,982
I didn't know
if it was real or not.

648
00:29:41,051 --> 00:29:44,052
But it made me feel like
I could trust her.

649
00:29:44,121 --> 00:29:49,725
-There is no one in my circles
back then or now

650
00:29:49,794 --> 00:29:51,226
who has ever suggested

651
00:29:51,295 --> 00:29:53,262
that they believe
she is Jamaican.

652
00:29:53,331 --> 00:29:57,031
And this is among, you know,
Jamaicans, African-Americans.

653
00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:00,269
But it's interesting that,
in other communities,

654
00:30:00,338 --> 00:30:04,873
there is almost a defense
of that identity as Jamaican.

655
00:30:04,942 --> 00:30:08,904
She tapped into
what people believed

656
00:30:08,973 --> 00:30:11,413
were the kinds
of characteristics you needed

657
00:30:11,482 --> 00:30:12,981
to have to be a psychic.

658
00:30:13,050 --> 00:30:15,216
It's clear that
there was something about

659
00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:21,422
that renegotiated identity
that was valuable.

660
00:30:21,491 --> 00:30:25,694
-When we think of Caribbean
accents or even African accents,

661
00:30:25,763 --> 00:30:28,229
we're thinking old world.

662
00:30:28,298 --> 00:30:33,702
We're thinking the power of
things that we give credence to,

663
00:30:33,771 --> 00:30:37,106
whether it be psychic, mystic --

664
00:30:37,175 --> 00:30:38,506
because when we think
of the Caribbean

665
00:30:38,575 --> 00:30:41,610
and we think of Africa,
we think of tribes.

666
00:30:41,679 --> 00:30:45,147
We think of voodoo.

667
00:30:45,216 --> 00:30:49,084
Caribbean and African Diaspora
in general

668
00:30:49,153 --> 00:30:53,555
has a long history
of being framed

669
00:30:53,624 --> 00:31:00,624
as a place that is bizarre,
that is other, that is unusual.

670
00:31:01,598 --> 00:31:06,934
And all of those characteristics
connect to the fantastic.

671
00:31:07,003 --> 00:31:14,003
The idea that a Black body has
these fantastical capabilities

672
00:31:14,005 --> 00:31:18,346
taps into sort of
an underlying understanding

673
00:31:18,415 --> 00:31:22,985
I think many of us have
of Blackness

674
00:31:23,054 --> 00:31:26,288
as strangeness, really.

675
00:31:26,357 --> 00:31:28,990
So there were things
about her race,

676
00:31:29,059 --> 00:31:32,861
I would say even her size
and her gender,

677
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:35,296
that helped to
make it believable

678
00:31:35,365 --> 00:31:39,101
that she was associated
with the fantastic.

679
00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:42,371
She's sort of progeny of Mammy
in some ways

680
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,576
and the mammy figure, who was
seen as nurturing but other.

681
00:31:48,645 --> 00:31:51,446
-Us is gonna kill
the high-steppin'-est rooster

682
00:31:51,515 --> 00:31:55,117
in the yard and a great big bowl
of milk gravy and grits.

683
00:31:55,186 --> 00:31:57,914
And waffles?
-There was a level of comfort

684
00:31:57,983 --> 00:32:01,957
that the owners
of the Psychic Network

685
00:32:02,026 --> 00:32:04,326
needed customers to have.

686
00:32:04,395 --> 00:32:07,328
And the mammy figure
has historically,

687
00:32:07,397 --> 00:32:11,366
though problematically,
been a figure

688
00:32:11,435 --> 00:32:16,504
that provides nurturing
to the white community.

689
00:32:16,573 --> 00:32:18,969
-Thank you for spending time
with me

690
00:32:19,038 --> 00:32:22,310
and allowing me to share
my life, my culture,

691
00:32:22,379 --> 00:32:26,685
and my sense of spirituality
here on "Mind and Spirit."

692
00:32:28,952 --> 00:32:31,353
-We don't have a lot
of back story.

693
00:32:31,422 --> 00:32:36,391
She didn't talk about
what went on before.

694
00:32:36,460 --> 00:32:38,226
-A lot of her life
was such a mystery,

695
00:32:38,295 --> 00:32:39,894
even for people
that spoke to her a lot.

696
00:32:39,963 --> 00:32:42,764
Part of her not wanting
to talk about her history --

697
00:32:42,833 --> 00:32:45,234
history was just painful.

698
00:32:45,303 --> 00:32:47,435
The little we do know
about Cleo's back story

699
00:32:47,504 --> 00:32:49,537
can really only be understood
by piecing together

700
00:32:49,606 --> 00:32:52,407
the different things she told
each of us over the years.

701
00:32:52,476 --> 00:32:58,413
-I recall the story
going something like...

702
00:32:58,482 --> 00:33:04,720
um, she was brought to America
when she was very young

703
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:06,721
from Jamaica.

704
00:33:06,790 --> 00:33:11,459
-She told me her mother
brought her to the states,

705
00:33:11,528 --> 00:33:15,330
in particular Los Angeles,
and gave her away.

706
00:33:15,399 --> 00:33:20,736
-Cleo had a sense
that her biological mother

707
00:33:20,805 --> 00:33:22,537
needed to do what she did.

708
00:33:22,606 --> 00:33:25,540
It wasn't because
she was some young woman

709
00:33:25,609 --> 00:33:29,612
who didn't want
the responsibility.

710
00:33:29,681 --> 00:33:30,778
It was deeper than that.

711
00:33:30,847 --> 00:33:36,318
-She gave her away
to a Jamaican couple

712
00:33:36,387 --> 00:33:40,221
who took in several children
from Jamaica

713
00:33:40,290 --> 00:33:42,557
to give them a better life.

714
00:33:42,626 --> 00:33:44,959
-I think she had eight
or nine brothers.

715
00:33:45,028 --> 00:33:49,031
I always got the sense
that she was kind of one of --

716
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:51,233
if not the last one
to be adopted,

717
00:33:51,302 --> 00:33:54,302
maybe one of the last
to be adopted.

718
00:33:54,371 --> 00:33:56,805
-So this woman
that didn't like her,

719
00:33:56,874 --> 00:33:58,073
didn't want to have a girl,

720
00:33:58,142 --> 00:33:59,741
didn't want anything
to do with her,

721
00:33:59,810 --> 00:34:02,277
but she promised this woman
that she'd raise her daughter

722
00:34:02,346 --> 00:34:06,048
in the States with education,
so she would raise them,

723
00:34:06,117 --> 00:34:08,083
support them, and educate them.

724
00:34:08,152 --> 00:34:10,452
-So she went to school.

725
00:34:10,521 --> 00:34:13,788
That gave
a little more discipline.

726
00:34:13,857 --> 00:34:18,260
-I remember her talking
about how much

727
00:34:18,329 --> 00:34:21,763
taller she was
than her classmates

728
00:34:21,832 --> 00:34:26,234
and how awkward
she felt in school.

729
00:34:26,303 --> 00:34:30,438
Enrolling her
in that private school

730
00:34:30,507 --> 00:34:36,711
was to put her in an environment
that was more religious,

731
00:34:36,780 --> 00:34:40,816
more traditional,
to kind of keep her in line,

732
00:34:40,885 --> 00:34:43,084
you know, spiritually, sexually.

733
00:34:43,153 --> 00:34:46,055
[ Laughs ]
It didn't work, but...

734
00:34:46,124 --> 00:34:48,190
uh...

735
00:34:48,259 --> 00:34:51,459
-You know, on television,
they wanted me to appear

736
00:34:51,528 --> 00:34:54,295
like I had just arrived
on the scene,

737
00:34:54,364 --> 00:34:55,696
straight out of bush.

738
00:34:55,765 --> 00:34:57,432
Well, that wasn't the case.
I was educated.

739
00:34:57,501 --> 00:35:00,702
I actually had a higher up
tell me one time,

740
00:35:00,771 --> 00:35:04,501
"Well, don't tell me you went
to an all-girl boarding school."

741
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:06,541
"Why not?"

742
00:35:06,610 --> 00:35:08,910
"Well, we really don't
want people, you know,

743
00:35:08,979 --> 00:35:11,079
to think that, you know."

744
00:35:11,148 --> 00:35:14,114
"What, that I'm educated?"

745
00:35:14,183 --> 00:35:19,421
-She was a person that suffered
for the way she looked,

746
00:35:19,490 --> 00:35:21,189
the way she spoke,

747
00:35:21,258 --> 00:35:27,528
because she would not silence
herself from what her truth was.

748
00:35:27,597 --> 00:35:29,930
-This is the story
she told all of us.

749
00:35:29,999 --> 00:35:33,405
But we'll never know
how much of it is true.

750
00:35:35,106 --> 00:35:37,439
-Truth is dimensional, my dears.

751
00:35:37,508 --> 00:35:40,676
It is not one dimensional.
It is multi dimensional.

752
00:35:40,745 --> 00:35:43,212
And that is why the cards work.

753
00:35:43,281 --> 00:35:45,647
Here she is.
There is one...

754
00:35:45,716 --> 00:35:47,282
[ Static ]

755
00:35:47,351 --> 00:35:48,984
-It's about to go down, y'all...

756
00:35:49,053 --> 00:35:51,353
-I used to watch a lot of BET
growing up.

757
00:35:51,422 --> 00:35:53,288
I always had the TV on,

758
00:35:53,357 --> 00:35:57,759
and I do remember
hearing the voice

759
00:35:57,828 --> 00:36:01,429
and looking up
and seeing her face,

760
00:36:01,498 --> 00:36:05,468
and basically going, "Oh, shit."
[ Laughs ]

761
00:36:05,537 --> 00:36:07,436
-I hear she's on TV,

762
00:36:07,505 --> 00:36:10,438
doing this character
called Miss Cleo.

763
00:36:10,507 --> 00:36:14,143
-It kind of was this trickle
down of coming back here

764
00:36:14,212 --> 00:36:16,511
and being like, "Did you see?

765
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:18,981
Did you --
you heard of Miss Cleo?"

766
00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:20,848
-That's her!

767
00:36:20,917 --> 00:36:22,751
-"You heard about Ree
and what she's doing?

768
00:36:22,820 --> 00:36:26,521
She's doing this Jamaican accent
role on TV,

769
00:36:26,590 --> 00:36:28,757
and she's telling
people's fortunes."

770
00:36:28,826 --> 00:36:32,827
-It was a shock,
like, having the TV on

771
00:36:32,896 --> 00:36:38,333
and looking up and being like,
"What the hell?"

772
00:36:38,402 --> 00:36:40,868
-Call me now for your
free tarot reading.

773
00:36:40,937 --> 00:36:43,604
-Call 1-800-980-8637.
[ Telephone dialing ]

774
00:36:43,673 --> 00:36:47,142
-I had callers that would call
over and over again

775
00:36:47,211 --> 00:36:50,278
whenever there was,
you know, something happening.

776
00:36:50,347 --> 00:36:53,214
-When you are calling
at an odd hour

777
00:36:53,283 --> 00:36:56,351
and you're spending $5 a minute,

778
00:36:56,420 --> 00:36:59,454
you're in a vulnerable place.

779
00:36:59,523 --> 00:37:01,622
-They were depressed
or they were anxious

780
00:37:01,691 --> 00:37:03,325
or they were concerned
or worried

781
00:37:03,394 --> 00:37:05,893
or afraid about something.

782
00:37:05,962 --> 00:37:10,598
They wanted someone
who they perceived as psychic

783
00:37:10,667 --> 00:37:15,770
to tell them, to reassure them,
to give them direction.

784
00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:20,108
-I got this call, and the woman
who called me was crying.

785
00:37:20,177 --> 00:37:23,611
And she was telling me about
the difficulties in her life.

786
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,648
I think her relationship
had ended

787
00:37:26,717 --> 00:37:29,584
and now she didn't have
a place to live.

788
00:37:29,653 --> 00:37:31,319
The call just went on and on.

789
00:37:31,388 --> 00:37:33,556
I think it was, like,
a half an hour.

790
00:37:33,625 --> 00:37:35,189
And on the one hand,

791
00:37:35,258 --> 00:37:38,526
I suppose that was a good thing
for the network, right?

792
00:37:38,595 --> 00:37:44,799
Because they wanted a long call.
But for me, I felt awful.

793
00:37:44,868 --> 00:37:50,772
I had crossed a line
with what my own ethics were.

794
00:37:50,841 --> 00:37:53,875
It didn't feel right
for someone to pay --

795
00:37:53,944 --> 00:37:56,678
I don't know what she paid --
$100 for the call.

796
00:37:56,747 --> 00:37:58,780
It didn't feel right for her
to pay so much money

797
00:37:58,849 --> 00:38:00,883
when she could literally
get it for free

798
00:38:00,952 --> 00:38:03,285
at the community
mental health center.

799
00:38:03,354 --> 00:38:06,554
-I didn't feel qualified
to help them,

800
00:38:06,623 --> 00:38:08,591
and I felt like
it was my responsibility

801
00:38:08,660 --> 00:38:09,890
to help them sometimes.

802
00:38:09,959 --> 00:38:11,392
I'm like, "The spirits
are telling me,

803
00:38:11,461 --> 00:38:12,928
don't call Miss Cleo.

804
00:38:12,997 --> 00:38:15,225
Like, it's expensive.

805
00:38:15,294 --> 00:38:16,598
You don't have
the money for this."

806
00:38:16,667 --> 00:38:18,667
Like, and also, like,
I didn't have any money.

807
00:38:18,736 --> 00:38:20,535
I didn't --
I probably didn't even have,

808
00:38:20,604 --> 00:38:22,271
like, $10
in my checking account.

809
00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:24,672
So just, like, there was
something sick about trying to,

810
00:38:24,741 --> 00:38:26,641
like, tell people that,
like, "Oh, I think

811
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:28,610
you're gonna come into a large
fortune," or whatever.

812
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:30,712
Like, it just was
too depressing.

813
00:38:30,781 --> 00:38:32,414
-The people that worked
on the line

814
00:38:32,483 --> 00:38:36,051
were working on the line for
as little as 12 cents a minute

815
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,121
to as much as -- as 20,
24 cents a minute.

816
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:43,825
And so those people
are not the bad guys.

817
00:38:43,894 --> 00:38:46,060
Even if they weren't
great psychics, you know,

818
00:38:46,129 --> 00:38:49,730
even if they didn't give you --
they were not the bad ones.

819
00:38:49,799 --> 00:38:51,767
-There were a lot
of people involved

820
00:38:51,836 --> 00:38:55,537
in the hierarchy of it, okay?

821
00:38:55,606 --> 00:38:56,938
There were a lot
of people involved

822
00:38:57,007 --> 00:38:59,402
that were making money
from this,

823
00:38:59,471 --> 00:39:02,344
and they didn't want
to stop making money.

824
00:39:02,413 --> 00:39:06,481
And the more money they made,
the more money they wanted.

825
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:08,483
-The psychics would
get in trouble

826
00:39:08,552 --> 00:39:10,886
if we couldn't give every name
and address

827
00:39:10,955 --> 00:39:12,753
for every call we had received.

828
00:39:12,822 --> 00:39:14,523
-They will get
your phone number,

829
00:39:14,592 --> 00:39:16,158
they will get your name,

830
00:39:16,227 --> 00:39:18,092
they will get everything
you want to tell them,

831
00:39:18,161 --> 00:39:22,497
and they will take you for
every possible cent you can get.

832
00:39:22,566 --> 00:39:25,134
-As things went along,
we started to hear, like,

833
00:39:25,203 --> 00:39:27,001
I think there were
kind of, like, rumors.

834
00:39:27,070 --> 00:39:29,738
-Well, I realized the company
was having some legal trouble

835
00:39:29,807 --> 00:39:32,573
maybe in the last, like, month.

836
00:39:32,642 --> 00:39:34,875
It was just rumors.
Just rumors.

837
00:39:34,944 --> 00:39:37,412
-I do specifically remember
that, you know,

838
00:39:37,481 --> 00:39:39,848
when we would call in
to the system

839
00:39:39,917 --> 00:39:43,050
to, like, start a day's work
or a night's work,

840
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,986
there would be a message that we
would, like, have to listen to.

841
00:39:46,055 --> 00:39:48,423
"This is the president
of the Psychic Readers Network,"

842
00:39:48,492 --> 00:39:52,327
or whatever, and he, you know,
it was a prerecorded message

843
00:39:52,396 --> 00:39:55,263
where he said, "I know many
of you have been hearing

844
00:39:55,332 --> 00:39:59,534
terrible things about Miss Cleo
and the Psychic Readers Network.

845
00:39:59,603 --> 00:40:01,670
I want to set
the record straight.

846
00:40:01,739 --> 00:40:04,139
Miss Cleo is a woman

847
00:40:04,208 --> 00:40:07,376
of extraordinary talent
and psychic ability.

848
00:40:07,445 --> 00:40:11,546
The Psychic Readers Network is
for entertainment purposes only.

849
00:40:11,615 --> 00:40:13,582
If anybody is telling you
anything else,

850
00:40:13,651 --> 00:40:16,017
you are hearing a lie.

851
00:40:16,086 --> 00:40:19,121
-Those hotlines definitely
preyed on those souls

852
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:22,056
that needed to be seen.

853
00:40:22,125 --> 00:40:27,829
-So that's why it was inevitable
to be able to scam people,

854
00:40:27,898 --> 00:40:33,368
because they're going in it
with such an emotional desire

855
00:40:33,437 --> 00:40:35,804
that they're not paying
attention to anything else.

856
00:40:35,873 --> 00:40:39,775
Those things were powerful,
but that was why, also,

857
00:40:39,844 --> 00:40:42,043
it became its downfall.

858
00:40:42,112 --> 00:40:44,546
-If you're up in the middle
of the night channel surfing,

859
00:40:44,615 --> 00:40:46,448
you may come across
one of those infomercials

860
00:40:46,517 --> 00:40:49,984
that promises you to put -- put
you in touch with a psychic.

861
00:40:50,053 --> 00:40:52,420
Most viewers probably
just keep on surfing,

862
00:40:52,489 --> 00:40:55,490
but those who stop and call in,

863
00:40:55,559 --> 00:40:57,858
well, they're put in touch
with something, all right --

864
00:40:57,927 --> 00:41:02,497
a telephone bill way beyond
what they probably expected.

865
00:41:02,566 --> 00:41:04,566
-Call now
for a free tarot reading

866
00:41:04,635 --> 00:41:06,602
and discover the truth today.

867
00:41:06,671 --> 00:41:07,837
Call me now.

868
00:41:07,906 --> 00:41:10,072
Call now and try it for free.

869
00:41:10,141 --> 00:41:12,741
-Well, here's one
she just didn't see coming.

870
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:14,309
A legal fight
with the government

871
00:41:14,378 --> 00:41:16,678
is in the cards for Miss Cleo.

872
00:41:16,747 --> 00:41:18,447
-Miss Cleo calls herself
a psychic,

873
00:41:18,516 --> 00:41:20,882
so you'd think she would have
seen this one coming.

874
00:41:20,951 --> 00:41:22,750
Now, personally, I think
she should have seen it coming.

875
00:41:22,819 --> 00:41:24,953
-The state of Florida
is suing you.

876
00:41:25,022 --> 00:41:26,755
But then you probably
knew that anyway,

877
00:41:26,824 --> 00:41:28,023
didn't you, Miss Cleo?

878
00:41:28,092 --> 00:41:29,758
-Hundreds of people
have complained

879
00:41:29,827 --> 00:41:32,627
about a so-called
free tarot card reading --

880
00:41:32,696 --> 00:41:37,065
one they were charged
more than $100.

881
00:41:37,134 --> 00:41:39,767
-Rather than consulting
her tarot cards,

882
00:41:39,836 --> 00:41:42,804
Miss Cleo and the Psychic
Readers Network

883
00:41:42,873 --> 00:41:45,273
had better consult
their lawyers.

884
00:41:45,342 --> 00:41:46,807
-My name is Dave Aronberg.

885
00:41:46,876 --> 00:41:49,611
I'm the state attorney
for Palm Beach County,

886
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,842
and I was the assistant attorney
general

887
00:41:52,911 --> 00:41:58,787
who started the investigation
against Psychic Readers Network,

888
00:41:58,856 --> 00:42:00,288
including Miss Cleo.

889
00:42:00,357 --> 00:42:02,891
-The charges --
deceptive advertising,

890
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,025
billing people who never
made any calls,

891
00:42:05,094 --> 00:42:07,862
and sending out illegally
threatening dunning letters.

892
00:42:07,931 --> 00:42:10,965
-Which of course means that the
people who dial up

893
00:42:11,034 --> 00:42:15,936
for $4.99 a minute
are often played for the Fool.

894
00:42:16,005 --> 00:42:18,973
-The Psychic Readers Network
obviously thought that the words

895
00:42:19,042 --> 00:42:21,910
"for entertainment only"
was sort of like magic dust

896
00:42:21,979 --> 00:42:25,080
that just made
their false statement of,

897
00:42:25,149 --> 00:42:28,749
"We're for real,"
gone into thin air,

898
00:42:28,818 --> 00:42:31,053
that you could say
all these lies you wanted,

899
00:42:31,122 --> 00:42:33,421
but as long as you had
those three magic words,

900
00:42:33,490 --> 00:42:35,456
poof, they were gone.

901
00:42:35,525 --> 00:42:37,958
But that's not how it works.

902
00:42:38,027 --> 00:42:41,457
I wasn't there to take down
the psychic industry.

903
00:42:41,526 --> 00:42:43,899
I was there to investigate
a company

904
00:42:43,968 --> 00:42:46,034
that was defrauding consumers.

905
00:42:46,103 --> 00:42:47,802
-We settled with them
three separate times.

906
00:42:47,871 --> 00:42:50,472
This is their fourth bite
at the apple.

907
00:42:50,541 --> 00:42:52,674
And now we decided
to stop settling

908
00:42:52,743 --> 00:42:54,176
and actually start suing.

909
00:42:54,245 --> 00:42:56,812
-Dave Aronberg
saw our commercial,

910
00:42:56,881 --> 00:42:59,280
did not like what he was seeing.

911
00:42:59,349 --> 00:43:01,082
I was very glad
when I heard from Dave

912
00:43:01,151 --> 00:43:04,319
that somebody was doing
something about it,

913
00:43:04,388 --> 00:43:05,920
because it had to be done.

914
00:43:05,989 --> 00:43:09,158
-There were many hundreds,
if not thousands of complaints

915
00:43:09,227 --> 00:43:12,727
about the company over years
from callers

916
00:43:12,796 --> 00:43:14,695
who claimed
to have been billed,

917
00:43:14,764 --> 00:43:16,331
even though they never
made the calls,

918
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,302
others whose children who are
underage had made the calls

919
00:43:20,371 --> 00:43:24,039
and the phone company
had deleted it from the bills,

920
00:43:24,108 --> 00:43:25,875
but then they were getting
collection letters

921
00:43:25,944 --> 00:43:27,642
from Psychic Readers Network.

922
00:43:27,711 --> 00:43:29,745
-One of the complaints
against Miss Cleo

923
00:43:29,814 --> 00:43:31,546
came from Paula Castro.

924
00:43:31,615 --> 00:43:35,250
-This is the first letter
that I received on August 21st,

925
00:43:35,319 --> 00:43:41,255
a collection letter for unpaid
services, charging me $289.

926
00:43:41,324 --> 00:43:44,593
-The Castros didn't pay because
they say they never even thought

927
00:43:44,662 --> 00:43:46,594
about calling the 800 number.

928
00:43:46,663 --> 00:43:49,698
Then threatening collections
letters started showing up.

929
00:43:49,767 --> 00:43:51,299
-They pressure you.

930
00:43:51,368 --> 00:43:54,339
-There were even some complaints
from people who worked for them.

931
00:43:57,307 --> 00:44:00,041
All these individuals
were complaining

932
00:44:00,110 --> 00:44:02,705
about a company
based in Fort Lauderdale,

933
00:44:02,774 --> 00:44:06,151
which just happened
to be in our backyard.

934
00:44:07,851 --> 00:44:09,852
There were other cases
around the country

935
00:44:09,921 --> 00:44:11,720
involving Psychic Readers
Network

936
00:44:11,789 --> 00:44:13,388
that were similar to ours.

937
00:44:13,457 --> 00:44:16,024
Even though Miss Cleo
was a very compelling character

938
00:44:16,093 --> 00:44:19,628
and someone who could be seen
as credible

939
00:44:19,697 --> 00:44:21,363
because she held herself out

940
00:44:21,432 --> 00:44:24,133
as a Jamaican Shango
Shaman psychic.

941
00:44:24,202 --> 00:44:26,502
And how would you know
that's not true?

942
00:44:26,571 --> 00:44:27,902
-The case went nowhere

943
00:44:27,971 --> 00:44:30,538
until former employee
turned whistleblower

944
00:44:30,607 --> 00:44:34,676
Barbara Melot dropped
this bombshell in a hearing.

945
00:44:34,745 --> 00:44:37,946
-There were no Shango shamans
working in the call center.

946
00:44:38,015 --> 00:44:40,182
There are no Shango shamans.

947
00:44:40,251 --> 00:44:42,049
-We were going to help
in any way we could

948
00:44:42,118 --> 00:44:45,086
because we agreed there was
something very wrong there.

949
00:44:45,155 --> 00:44:47,355
-The difference between
our investigation

950
00:44:47,424 --> 00:44:51,460
and the ones that had been
conducted around the country

951
00:44:51,529 --> 00:44:55,730
was that we included Miss Cleo

952
00:44:55,799 --> 00:44:58,633
as a named party
in this investigation.

953
00:44:58,702 --> 00:45:01,069
The others just named
the Psychic Readers Network

954
00:45:01,138 --> 00:45:04,706
and perhaps the two owners
of the company.

955
00:45:04,775 --> 00:45:07,842
But no one had ever named
Miss Cleo before.

956
00:45:07,911 --> 00:45:11,112
And the reason we were able
to name Miss Cleo

957
00:45:11,181 --> 00:45:16,251
was because we found a document
in doing our research

958
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,954
that was a collection letter
given to us

959
00:45:19,023 --> 00:45:22,557
by someone who complained
about the company

960
00:45:22,626 --> 00:45:24,125
that was signed by Miss Cleo.

961
00:45:24,194 --> 00:45:27,896
-Since state investigators
admit they can't read minds,

962
00:45:27,965 --> 00:45:30,098
they've subpoenaed
her birth records.

963
00:45:30,167 --> 00:45:32,067
They want to know if the woman
who lives

964
00:45:32,136 --> 00:45:35,337
in this Broward County
suburb is Miss Cleo.

965
00:45:35,406 --> 00:45:39,408
And is she really the master
tarot card reader from Jamaica

966
00:45:39,477 --> 00:45:40,743
she claims to be?

967
00:45:40,812 --> 00:45:45,875
♪♪

968
00:45:45,944 --> 00:45:49,111
-So a friend and colleague
knew about it first.

969
00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:51,553
So she kind of just casually
brought it up with me and said,

970
00:45:51,622 --> 00:45:53,188
"You know, you might want
to look into this.

971
00:45:53,257 --> 00:45:55,658
This seems like it'd be
an interesting story."

972
00:45:55,727 --> 00:45:58,026
I was a reporter and columnist

973
00:45:58,095 --> 00:45:59,961
at the "Seattle
Post-Intelligencer,"

974
00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:01,229
which was a newspaper.

975
00:46:01,298 --> 00:46:03,598
Miss Cleo was here in the '90s,

976
00:46:03,667 --> 00:46:05,900
and she worked
with this community theater,

977
00:46:05,969 --> 00:46:09,170
and she apparently kind of did
the dirty on them a little bit.

978
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,207
You know, she left a little
trail of broken hearts behind.

979
00:46:12,276 --> 00:46:14,710
My editor was like, "Yeah,
but everybody knows Miss Cleo.

980
00:46:14,779 --> 00:46:16,846
Find out what happened."

981
00:46:16,915 --> 00:46:18,847
And so I just started
making calls

982
00:46:18,916 --> 00:46:20,781
and asking questions about,

983
00:46:20,850 --> 00:46:22,717
"Do you remember working
with this woman?

984
00:46:22,786 --> 00:46:26,054
What was she like?
Where did she say her name was?

985
00:46:26,123 --> 00:46:29,090
What can you tell me
about her time here?"

986
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:31,292
-To be able to come
into a community

987
00:46:31,361 --> 00:46:35,891
that you're not from
and embed yourself

988
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,933
in the way that she did
and convince people

989
00:46:39,002 --> 00:46:43,032
that they should pay her for the
great things and her big ideas,

990
00:46:43,101 --> 00:46:46,308
it was just like, wow, like,
you know, she left here

991
00:46:46,377 --> 00:46:48,878
and left a lot
of people disgruntled.

992
00:46:48,947 --> 00:46:50,412
Then she was able
to go somewhere else

993
00:46:50,481 --> 00:46:53,781
and convince people
that she was this other person,

994
00:46:53,850 --> 00:46:58,020
that she was a psychic, and that
she was a Jamaican woman.

995
00:46:58,089 --> 00:47:00,855
-She told people various stories
about herself.

996
00:47:00,924 --> 00:47:03,925
She said she'd gone
to the University of
Southern California.

997
00:47:03,994 --> 00:47:06,962
She presented herself as a -- as
a very together person, right?

998
00:47:07,031 --> 00:47:08,396
Like, "I have --
I have this education.

999
00:47:08,465 --> 00:47:10,432
I went to school in California.
I have a degree.

1000
00:47:10,501 --> 00:47:12,767
I've studied, you know, like,
theater and creative arts."

1001
00:47:12,836 --> 00:47:18,139
And the web of stories,
it seems, is far and wide.

1002
00:47:18,208 --> 00:47:20,876
I just remember looking
at the copy of the lawsuit

1003
00:47:20,945 --> 00:47:22,411
and the various names on it,

1004
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,282
and I just thought, "Man,
it's a long list of aliases."

1005
00:47:27,351 --> 00:47:29,384
You're Cleomili, whatever.

1006
00:47:29,453 --> 00:47:32,187
Like, there's, like,
four or five names.

1007
00:47:32,256 --> 00:47:35,056
I don't know what
this woman's actual name is,

1008
00:47:35,125 --> 00:47:38,227
so -- 'cause I didn't have
her birth certificate,

1009
00:47:38,296 --> 00:47:40,661
so I just called the university
and just basically said,

1010
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:44,099
"I work for this newspaper,
I'm a reporter.

1011
00:47:44,168 --> 00:47:47,636
And do you know anybody
who, under these names --

1012
00:47:47,705 --> 00:47:49,004
have you ever had a student

1013
00:47:49,073 --> 00:47:51,072
either attend or graduate
under these names?"

1014
00:47:51,141 --> 00:47:53,775
And they got back to me
pretty quickly and said,

1015
00:47:53,844 --> 00:47:56,281
"Nope, nobody."

1016
00:47:58,349 --> 00:48:00,682
-That's the enigma
of this woman.

1017
00:48:00,751 --> 00:48:03,151
That could really be her.

1018
00:48:03,220 --> 00:48:05,353
She seemed to be smart enough
and skilled enough

1019
00:48:05,422 --> 00:48:06,955
to have gone to that school.

1020
00:48:07,024 --> 00:48:08,957
I mean, really,
she was demonstrably

1021
00:48:09,026 --> 00:48:11,096
an intelligent woman.

1022
00:48:13,630 --> 00:48:17,198
-I got some random call one day
from some private investigator.

1023
00:48:17,267 --> 00:48:19,029
She said, "Hey, I saw you on TV.

1024
00:48:19,098 --> 00:48:21,432
I've got her birth certificate.
You want it?"

1025
00:48:21,501 --> 00:48:23,471
I was like, "Yes."

1026
00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:25,706
-She was asked
about her birth certificate,

1027
00:48:25,775 --> 00:48:28,010
which shows her to have
been born in Los Angeles

1028
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:30,312
to American parents.

1029
00:48:30,381 --> 00:48:32,447
-But she tried to keep it
purposely vague.

1030
00:48:32,516 --> 00:48:35,050
You may have this birth
certificate, but is it accurate?

1031
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:37,052
"Well, yeah, I mean,
I can't dispute that.

1032
00:48:37,121 --> 00:48:38,987
But there are lots of reasons

1033
00:48:39,056 --> 00:48:40,856
why I speak
with a Jamaican accent,

1034
00:48:40,925 --> 00:48:43,192
and I'm really from Jamaica."

1035
00:48:43,261 --> 00:48:46,228
But doesn't this document
prove otherwise?

1036
00:48:46,297 --> 00:48:49,564
I mean,
that's how the deposition went.

1037
00:48:49,633 --> 00:48:51,600
-It's -- It's a fairly
straightforward question.

1038
00:48:51,669 --> 00:48:54,335
Is she or is she not
from Jamaica?

1039
00:48:54,404 --> 00:48:59,607
-She is -- She is from Jamaica
in as much as anyone

1040
00:48:59,676 --> 00:49:03,206
who has Jamaican ties
to that country

1041
00:49:03,275 --> 00:49:05,981
or to any other country
that they claim they speak --

1042
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:08,150
she speaks with
the Jamaican accent,

1043
00:49:08,219 --> 00:49:10,485
and is as much as Jamaican

1044
00:49:10,554 --> 00:49:13,521
as anyone that claims
that country or their culture.

1045
00:49:13,590 --> 00:49:17,492
-The Western perspective
of papers

1046
00:49:17,561 --> 00:49:24,561
and legal documents
being the basis for who you are

1047
00:49:24,701 --> 00:49:30,605
ended up becoming very central,
because in our American culture,

1048
00:49:30,674 --> 00:49:34,509
legal documents
indicate identity.

1049
00:49:34,578 --> 00:49:37,945
And I think that here there is,
"What is the evidence?

1050
00:49:38,014 --> 00:49:40,715
What is the paperwork?
What is the legal document?"

1051
00:49:40,784 --> 00:49:47,784
But across the African diaspora,
the question of identity,

1052
00:49:48,192 --> 00:49:50,459
it just -- just takes
some intriguing turns.

1053
00:49:50,528 --> 00:49:54,996
-The more obvious explanation is
that she was born Los Angeles,

1054
00:49:55,065 --> 00:49:56,865
she created this
Miss Cleo character,

1055
00:49:56,934 --> 00:49:58,466
which had a Jamaican accent,

1056
00:49:58,535 --> 00:50:01,536
and she lived the gimmick
for much of her life.

1057
00:50:01,605 --> 00:50:03,171
I don't know
if it's true or not,

1058
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,141
but all I know is
I had the birth certificate,

1059
00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:08,210
and to explain
that there are 10 kids

1060
00:50:08,279 --> 00:50:09,777
and all this whole
elaborate story,

1061
00:50:09,846 --> 00:50:11,908
and that's why she has
this Jamaican accent,

1062
00:50:11,977 --> 00:50:15,016
maybe I'm just
a little skeptical

1063
00:50:15,085 --> 00:50:16,284
based on the investigation,

1064
00:50:16,353 --> 00:50:19,088
but this is the mythology
of Miss Cleo.

1065
00:50:19,157 --> 00:50:21,356
-She was a character
on that show,

1066
00:50:21,425 --> 00:50:24,226
but the real Cleo was spiritual.

1067
00:50:24,295 --> 00:50:26,394
She was a guide.
She was gifted.

1068
00:50:26,463 --> 00:50:29,031
Sometimes people
with extreme gifts

1069
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:31,065
have a hard time
handling those gifts.

1070
00:50:31,134 --> 00:50:36,003
-She -- She did have certain
spirits that she called on.

1071
00:50:36,072 --> 00:50:43,072
Max was a personality that
she had when she needed to rest.

1072
00:50:43,381 --> 00:50:48,649
She would get so exhausted
by the spirits

1073
00:50:48,718 --> 00:50:55,356
giving her work to do,
so Cleo would become Max,

1074
00:50:55,425 --> 00:50:57,692
who was a male figure.

1075
00:50:57,761 --> 00:51:02,397
Max would come in, introduce
himself as Max, you know.

1076
00:51:02,466 --> 00:51:05,333
"Cleo's resting right now."

1077
00:51:05,402 --> 00:51:07,502
Her gait would be different.

1078
00:51:07,571 --> 00:51:12,102
Her speech,
the sound of her voice,

1079
00:51:12,171 --> 00:51:17,312
the expressions on her face
all changed.

1080
00:51:17,381 --> 00:51:21,917
-There's Gra-mere.
So Gra-mere was very formal.

1081
00:51:21,986 --> 00:51:25,320
So I was Patricia to Gra-mere.

1082
00:51:25,389 --> 00:51:30,459
She was like a wise, old woman

1083
00:51:30,528 --> 00:51:34,495
who's speaking
partly in metaphor,

1084
00:51:34,564 --> 00:51:38,366
like in a multi-layered
kind of speak.

1085
00:51:38,435 --> 00:51:41,636
I found myself wanting
to kind of understand

1086
00:51:41,705 --> 00:51:47,842
every word she was saying
and still having a hard time.

1087
00:51:47,911 --> 00:51:50,273
-Kind of scary stuff --
it's kind of scary.

1088
00:51:50,342 --> 00:51:54,616
In my house now, this is another
person in the same body,

1089
00:51:54,685 --> 00:51:58,423
because seriously, I didn't know
who that person was.

1090
00:52:00,389 --> 00:52:05,394
-There were always things being
communicated to her, it seemed,

1091
00:52:05,463 --> 00:52:08,930
like, almost like
a continuous stream.

1092
00:52:08,999 --> 00:52:12,801
-She goes, "This is not just
a suggestion that I'm making.

1093
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:15,237
I am following
what is told to me.

1094
00:52:15,306 --> 00:52:18,841
That's my job,
that I hear the spirits,

1095
00:52:18,910 --> 00:52:21,376
and now I have
to convey a message.

1096
00:52:21,445 --> 00:52:23,478
And if I don't get
that message across,

1097
00:52:23,547 --> 00:52:25,780
they get very
disappointed in me."

1098
00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:29,317
-We have disagreements,
perhaps, over the mechanism

1099
00:52:29,386 --> 00:52:32,587
of her spirituality,
if that --

1100
00:52:32,656 --> 00:52:36,728
but, like, it was still
very real for her.

1101
00:52:40,597 --> 00:52:44,533
-There are some who may insist

1102
00:52:44,602 --> 00:52:49,437
that this is classic
mental health,

1103
00:52:49,506 --> 00:52:53,512
split personality,
whatever you want to call it.

1104
00:52:57,514 --> 00:53:00,349
-I think that Cleo,
as the character

1105
00:53:00,418 --> 00:53:03,552
that you saw on TV
or the character in my life,

1106
00:53:03,621 --> 00:53:05,281
may have been a character

1107
00:53:05,350 --> 00:53:11,927
to cope with whatever
was going on in her life.

1108
00:53:11,996 --> 00:53:13,362
A lot of people do that.

1109
00:53:13,431 --> 00:53:16,765
We create personas
of the people we want to be

1110
00:53:16,834 --> 00:53:21,536
and in some ways, like, fulfill
them by trying to act them out.

1111
00:53:21,605 --> 00:53:23,805
-I can't see someone choosing
to do that

1112
00:53:23,874 --> 00:53:27,609
unless they were just trying
to deal with some things

1113
00:53:27,678 --> 00:53:30,540
that they were not equipped
to deal with.

1114
00:53:30,609 --> 00:53:34,749
Maybe she had a really nice
childhood with loving parents

1115
00:53:34,818 --> 00:53:38,886
and nothing but stability
and apple pie every day.

1116
00:53:38,955 --> 00:53:43,495
I don't know, but that's --
I don't think that was the case.

1117
00:53:46,329 --> 00:53:50,933
-I remember her telling me that
she first considered suicide

1118
00:53:51,002 --> 00:53:52,905
at the age of 7.

1119
00:53:55,806 --> 00:54:00,608
So, yeah, her --
her childhood was...

1120
00:54:00,677 --> 00:54:03,846
was really, really challenging.

1121
00:54:03,915 --> 00:54:05,780
[ Wind chimes tinkling ]

1122
00:54:05,849 --> 00:54:10,719
-She had a family member. It was
a regular visit to the house.

1123
00:54:10,788 --> 00:54:14,823
She was 11,
alone in her bedroom,

1124
00:54:14,892 --> 00:54:20,499
and I guess that he had made
attempts at her before.

1125
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,466
And she would run away,
you know.

1126
00:54:25,535 --> 00:54:29,170
But this one time,
he had her trapped,

1127
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,173
and she was in there.

1128
00:54:31,242 --> 00:54:38,242
♪♪

1129
00:54:38,749 --> 00:54:44,286
She had no safe place
in that upbringing.

1130
00:54:44,355 --> 00:54:46,688
There was no one to trust,

1131
00:54:46,757 --> 00:54:49,892
and there was no love,
understanding.

1132
00:54:49,961 --> 00:54:54,896
♪♪

1133
00:54:54,965 --> 00:54:58,300
-When you're all about, like,
"How can I get past this?

1134
00:54:58,369 --> 00:55:00,335
How can I make it
to the next thing?"

1135
00:55:00,404 --> 00:55:01,702
you're not maybe thinking
clearly.

1136
00:55:01,771 --> 00:55:03,438
You're thinking from the point
of a --

1137
00:55:03,507 --> 00:55:06,807
perspective of a person
who is traumatized,

1138
00:55:06,876 --> 00:55:09,278
who might not have
a tremendous amount

1139
00:55:09,347 --> 00:55:13,548
of self-worth and confidence.

1140
00:55:13,617 --> 00:55:16,051
You don't think that the person
who you really are

1141
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,988
is worth knowing.

1142
00:55:19,057 --> 00:55:21,990
So you do the thing
that you think

1143
00:55:22,059 --> 00:55:24,359
is gonna help you survive

1144
00:55:24,428 --> 00:55:26,595
and get to the next --
to the next day.

1145
00:55:26,664 --> 00:55:31,100
-And if you split a part of you
off in order to do that,

1146
00:55:31,169 --> 00:55:33,468
you'll keep going.

1147
00:55:33,537 --> 00:55:38,139
So whatever part that was
that enabled her to live

1148
00:55:38,208 --> 00:55:39,708
in that household, it grew,

1149
00:55:39,777 --> 00:55:46,051
and it became part of who
the world got to know as Cleo.

1150
00:55:48,685 --> 00:55:51,486
-All right.
This is a very important story.

1151
00:55:51,555 --> 00:55:54,323
The future for Miss Cleo's
psychic hotline --

1152
00:55:54,392 --> 00:55:56,158
not looking good today.

1153
00:55:56,227 --> 00:55:59,794
-The U.S. government
came in through the FTC,

1154
00:55:59,863 --> 00:56:02,964
and they really brought
the hammer down.

1155
00:56:03,033 --> 00:56:05,633
-My name was proposed by
the Federal Trade Commission

1156
00:56:05,702 --> 00:56:07,670
when they brought
an enforcement action

1157
00:56:07,739 --> 00:56:10,238
against these -- the entities

1158
00:56:10,307 --> 00:56:14,242
that were promoting
these psychic networks,

1159
00:56:14,311 --> 00:56:17,479
basically as an arm
of the court to investigate

1160
00:56:17,548 --> 00:56:20,815
and then report back
to the court my findings.

1161
00:56:20,884 --> 00:56:23,584
-It was just a normal day,
and the federal agency came in

1162
00:56:23,653 --> 00:56:26,055
and took all the computers,

1163
00:56:26,124 --> 00:56:27,689
I mean, a lot of boxes.

1164
00:56:27,758 --> 00:56:31,792
There was a lot of TV stations
and so forth, too.

1165
00:56:31,861 --> 00:56:35,097
-I had an opportunity to spend
a good deal of time

1166
00:56:35,166 --> 00:56:36,965
with Miss Cleo herself.

1167
00:56:37,034 --> 00:56:38,933
I asked
if I could interview her,

1168
00:56:39,002 --> 00:56:42,837
and she invited me over
to her house in Fort Lauderdale.

1169
00:56:42,906 --> 00:56:46,241
She showed me her contract,
which she complained about.

1170
00:56:46,310 --> 00:56:49,544
She said, "I signed
a really bad contract

1171
00:56:49,613 --> 00:56:51,580
because they're using my name.

1172
00:56:51,649 --> 00:56:53,781
I'm bringing in
all this business,

1173
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:59,421
but I'm getting a salary,
basically, and no benefits.

1174
00:56:59,490 --> 00:57:01,656
I'm an independent contractor."

1175
00:57:01,725 --> 00:57:04,860
-Even our current attorney
general at the time

1176
00:57:04,929 --> 00:57:07,290
thought I was making
far more money

1177
00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:10,098
until I submitted
my tax returns.

1178
00:57:10,167 --> 00:57:14,269
And he -- I'll never forget it.
He was stunned.

1179
00:57:14,338 --> 00:57:19,708
He was absolutely stunned
at what I was being paid

1180
00:57:19,777 --> 00:57:22,510
and how little I was being paid.

1181
00:57:22,579 --> 00:57:24,146
-Yo, Cleo never had a bag?

1182
00:57:24,215 --> 00:57:26,214
I mean, the thing that's going
through my head right now

1183
00:57:26,283 --> 00:57:28,683
is the work
that she does spiritually,

1184
00:57:28,752 --> 00:57:31,020
if it's real,
never makes a lot of money.

1185
00:57:31,089 --> 00:57:32,954
If it's fake,
it makes a lot of money.

1186
00:57:33,023 --> 00:57:35,290
-That first commercial
that I did for them,

1187
00:57:35,359 --> 00:57:39,861
they paid me $1,750.

1188
00:57:39,930 --> 00:57:44,036
And that commercial
made them millions.

1189
00:57:46,002 --> 00:57:48,770
-She didn't even have the right
to her own image.

1190
00:57:48,839 --> 00:57:51,572
-At one point in time,
it was real clear to me

1191
00:57:51,641 --> 00:57:54,475
that the persona
that they wanted to create

1192
00:57:54,544 --> 00:58:00,281
was quite different from the
person that was Youree Cleomili.

1193
00:58:00,350 --> 00:58:01,616
It's all about the illusion.

1194
00:58:01,685 --> 00:58:03,285
-And what happened
to the accident, man?

1195
00:58:03,354 --> 00:58:05,019
It sort of comes and it goes,
doesn't it?

1196
00:58:05,088 --> 00:58:07,888
You know what I mean?
-They said, "No, no, no, no, no.

1197
00:58:07,957 --> 00:58:10,292
You know, it's all right.
You can use a little patois.

1198
00:58:10,361 --> 00:58:12,161
Let's see how..." And they
would -- they would tell me,

1199
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:14,629
"Dial it up.
You know, dial it up.

1200
00:58:14,698 --> 00:58:16,264
You're -- You're getting
too passive.

1201
00:58:16,333 --> 00:58:17,765
We want you more animated."

1202
00:58:17,834 --> 00:58:22,103
You know, and I'm --
I'm animated enough. Trust this.

1203
00:58:22,172 --> 00:58:24,473
"You're -- You're -- You're
trying to create a character."

1204
00:58:24,542 --> 00:58:28,009
I'm not a character. I'm a --
I'm a -- I'm a real person.

1205
00:58:28,078 --> 00:58:34,882
-Her persona as Miss Cleo became
an asset of the company's.

1206
00:58:34,951 --> 00:58:40,823
They basically owned her --
her image and her persona.

1207
00:58:40,892 --> 00:58:42,224
-Not having the money to go up

1208
00:58:42,293 --> 00:58:44,892
against big corporations
is very scary.

1209
00:58:44,961 --> 00:58:48,897
And there was no hashtag
camaraderie back then.

1210
00:58:48,966 --> 00:58:52,267
-So when your name
becomes a brand,

1211
00:58:52,336 --> 00:58:56,808
you really have to have
the savvy or the legal counsel.

1212
00:58:59,376 --> 00:59:03,245
There were collection letters
that went out with a forgery.

1213
00:59:03,314 --> 00:59:06,046
My name was found to be forged
on a number of documents,

1214
00:59:06,115 --> 00:59:10,385
which I didn't find out about
until I was deposed.

1215
00:59:10,454 --> 00:59:11,752
-She was a paid employee

1216
00:59:11,821 --> 00:59:13,688
that was a spokesperson
for a company,

1217
00:59:13,757 --> 00:59:17,359
and she seemed pretty upset
with the company

1218
00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:19,289
the more she learned about it.

1219
00:59:19,358 --> 00:59:20,829
She was part of the marketing.

1220
00:59:20,898 --> 00:59:23,198
I mean, she was in the tarot
cards the company sold,

1221
00:59:23,267 --> 00:59:26,368
the game boards they would sell,
the ads.

1222
00:59:26,437 --> 00:59:30,305
She was everywhere, but as far
as getting a cut

1223
00:59:30,374 --> 00:59:32,975
of the company profits,

1224
00:59:33,044 --> 00:59:34,643
it didn't appear
she was getting any of that.

1225
00:59:34,712 --> 00:59:39,647
We could not tie her to the
decisions made by the company

1226
00:59:39,716 --> 00:59:41,582
other than being
the spokesperson

1227
00:59:41,651 --> 00:59:44,352
for a fraudulent enterprise.

1228
00:59:44,421 --> 00:59:45,553
-Who's running the company?

1229
00:59:45,622 --> 00:59:47,189
Who's collecting
the $4.99 a minute?

1230
00:59:47,258 --> 00:59:49,591
That's the person who's
running the scam, not Miss Cleo.

1231
00:59:49,660 --> 00:59:53,861
-Does anybody know that there's
two guys in Fort Lauderdale

1232
00:59:53,930 --> 00:59:56,731
that were the brains
in the operation behind this?

1233
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,135
-She is merely the face
of a company

1234
01:00:00,204 --> 01:00:04,639
that I found was owned
by two individuals.

1235
01:00:04,708 --> 01:00:06,207
-And so we dropped her
from the lawsuit

1236
01:00:06,276 --> 01:00:11,013
and continued the action against
the owners of the company

1237
01:00:11,082 --> 01:00:13,015
and the company itself.

1238
01:00:13,084 --> 01:00:17,889
-The two principals were
Mr. Feder and Mr. Stolz.

1239
01:00:20,457 --> 01:00:22,223
-A lot of people feared them,

1240
01:00:22,292 --> 01:00:25,627
and not necessarily
in a physical threatening way,

1241
01:00:25,696 --> 01:00:27,930
but, you know, they were wealthy

1242
01:00:27,999 --> 01:00:30,165
and powerful
in the business world.

1243
01:00:30,234 --> 01:00:31,766
-They weren't
the smartest people.

1244
01:00:31,835 --> 01:00:33,168
They weren't
the brightest people.

1245
01:00:33,237 --> 01:00:35,069
They weren't
the best-looking people.

1246
01:00:35,138 --> 01:00:40,609
The only thing they were
interested in was making money.

1247
01:00:40,678 --> 01:00:42,410
-This was a company
to try to milk

1248
01:00:42,479 --> 01:00:47,348
as much money from your pocket
as possible through deception.

1249
01:00:47,417 --> 01:00:51,619
People who were calling largely
were poor, desperate, lonely.

1250
01:00:51,688 --> 01:00:54,155
The company was charging
$5 a minute.

1251
01:00:54,224 --> 01:00:58,226
-Living the life of luxury,
I'm sure, and hiding behind it.

1252
01:00:58,295 --> 01:01:01,697
It's just...bottom feeders,
really.

1253
01:01:01,766 --> 01:01:03,766
It's disgusting.

1254
01:01:03,835 --> 01:01:08,771
♪♪

1255
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,206
-The scale was enormous.

1256
01:01:11,275 --> 01:01:16,211
What we found was
they had a nationwide network

1257
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:20,948
of these psychic readers
in various cities and towns,

1258
01:01:21,017 --> 01:01:25,921
and they would hire individuals
to do gig work.

1259
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:28,323
But it was very,
very widespread.

1260
01:01:28,392 --> 01:01:33,562
They had hundreds and hundreds
of these psychic readers.

1261
01:01:33,631 --> 01:01:35,865
People were calling Miss Cleo,

1262
01:01:35,934 --> 01:01:37,867
but they're not getting
Miss Cleo.

1263
01:01:37,936 --> 01:01:40,968
They're getting
some paid employee

1264
01:01:41,037 --> 01:01:45,174
who was given incentives to take
advantage of individuals.

1265
01:01:45,243 --> 01:01:47,676
-They're disgusting
human beings.

1266
01:01:47,745 --> 01:01:50,945
-The defendants realized
that they were in

1267
01:01:51,014 --> 01:01:56,351
for some real difficulty,
and so they cut a deal.

1268
01:01:56,420 --> 01:01:58,988
-Maybe she saw it coming,
but Miss Cleo is going to

1269
01:01:59,057 --> 01:02:01,123
have to use her powers
to find a new job.

1270
01:02:01,192 --> 01:02:03,358
The companies behind
her psychic hotline

1271
01:02:03,427 --> 01:02:05,260
have reached a settlement
with the federal government

1272
01:02:05,329 --> 01:02:08,497
that puts her crystal ball
in mothballs.

1273
01:02:08,566 --> 01:02:12,067
-The companies agreed to shut
down their pay-per-call business

1274
01:02:12,136 --> 01:02:14,069
and make an expensive
settlement.

1275
01:02:14,138 --> 01:02:16,638
-The company will cancel
half a billion dollars

1276
01:02:16,707 --> 01:02:20,709
it billed to consumers
and pay a $5 million fine.

1277
01:02:20,778 --> 01:02:26,181
-But it was estimated that,
over a period of years,

1278
01:02:26,250 --> 01:02:30,151
they had billed
about $1,000,000,000.

1279
01:02:30,220 --> 01:02:33,255
They were being slapped
on the wrist.

1280
01:02:33,324 --> 01:02:36,158
-And those guys --
are they in jail yet?

1281
01:02:36,227 --> 01:02:37,759
They're not gonna be in jail.

1282
01:02:37,828 --> 01:02:40,362
They own a jail in Florida?
Probably.

1283
01:02:40,431 --> 01:02:42,564
-The owners of the company
were arrested

1284
01:02:42,633 --> 01:02:44,865
in the state of Missouri.

1285
01:02:44,934 --> 01:02:47,669
They were arrested
in the morning time,

1286
01:02:47,738 --> 01:02:50,905
and they had a bail hearing,

1287
01:02:50,974 --> 01:02:54,108
and they were back in Florida
for dinner.

1288
01:02:54,177 --> 01:02:57,179
-I think they may have
tried to survive after
that, but they couldn't.

1289
01:02:57,248 --> 01:02:59,847
The negative publicity
from these actions

1290
01:02:59,916 --> 01:03:03,318
had to scare a lot of callers
away.

1291
01:03:03,387 --> 01:03:08,088
Miss Cleo had become estranged
from the company

1292
01:03:08,157 --> 01:03:12,026
at some point in all this,
and the company just --

1293
01:03:12,095 --> 01:03:14,296
I don't think could
really survive without her.

1294
01:03:14,365 --> 01:03:17,933
-Did you not hear the news?
I've been dismissed.

1295
01:03:18,002 --> 01:03:20,802
But nobody wanted
to talk about that.

1296
01:03:20,871 --> 01:03:22,604
Nobody wanted
to talk about that.

1297
01:03:22,673 --> 01:03:26,474
And that makes you angry.

1298
01:03:26,543 --> 01:03:29,510
-Hearing that these two random
white men

1299
01:03:29,579 --> 01:03:34,883
took advantage of Miss Cleo
and millions of people

1300
01:03:34,952 --> 01:03:38,887
around the country,
I'm like..."America.

1301
01:03:38,956 --> 01:03:42,327
That just --
there you go, America."

1302
01:03:45,229 --> 01:03:48,831
-Once it was off the front page,
if you will,

1303
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:50,893
people just -- I don't know --

1304
01:03:50,962 --> 01:03:53,135
they either misremember
or they don't know

1305
01:03:53,204 --> 01:03:57,506
and they kind of guess
or they listen to...

1306
01:03:57,575 --> 01:04:00,241
what somebody told them
some time.

1307
01:04:00,310 --> 01:04:04,179
That's why Cleo always used
the word "exonerated,"

1308
01:04:04,248 --> 01:04:07,316
which, by that time,
nobody was paying attention.

1309
01:04:07,385 --> 01:04:10,085
-I've been called everything
from a demon

1310
01:04:10,154 --> 01:04:11,887
by some church shows

1311
01:04:11,956 --> 01:04:13,688
to straight out a fraud.

1312
01:04:13,757 --> 01:04:16,659
Oh, and a thief
on top of everything else.

1313
01:04:16,728 --> 01:04:18,126
-A what?
-A thief.

1314
01:04:18,195 --> 01:04:20,695
You know,
and I am none of those things.

1315
01:04:20,764 --> 01:04:24,827
-I do think she bears some moral
and ethical responsibility here.

1316
01:04:24,896 --> 01:04:27,202
You can't put your head
in the sand,

1317
01:04:27,271 --> 01:04:30,138
say you don't know
what was going on,

1318
01:04:30,207 --> 01:04:31,707
when all these people
are being scammed

1319
01:04:31,776 --> 01:04:33,242
and people are being hurt.

1320
01:04:33,311 --> 01:04:36,544
The company thrived because
they had a spokesperson

1321
01:04:36,613 --> 01:04:40,082
that was engaging
and charismatic and likable,

1322
01:04:40,151 --> 01:04:41,649
and without her,

1323
01:04:41,718 --> 01:04:45,253
would so many people out there
have been scammed?

1324
01:04:45,322 --> 01:04:47,690
Would so many people out
there have been hurt?

1325
01:04:47,759 --> 01:04:49,124
I-I don't think so.

1326
01:04:49,193 --> 01:04:51,326
-Did you feel at all like you
were misleading

1327
01:04:51,395 --> 01:04:53,328
those who trusted you?
-No, I did not,

1328
01:04:53,397 --> 01:04:56,865
because everything
that I said on the television

1329
01:04:56,934 --> 01:05:00,102
that were my words was real.

1330
01:05:00,171 --> 01:05:02,972
-It's so easy to point
the finger at her

1331
01:05:03,041 --> 01:05:05,507
as opposed to the people
who were the masterminds

1332
01:05:05,576 --> 01:05:08,510
of the business
and who made, you know,

1333
01:05:08,579 --> 01:05:12,847
tremendous amounts of money off
of her expertise, really.

1334
01:05:12,916 --> 01:05:19,388
-"Miss Cleo Bilks American
Consumer out of $356 Million."

1335
01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:22,257
And I had a nephew that showed
up a little bit later

1336
01:05:22,326 --> 01:05:24,292
and said, "Auntie,
you've been holding out on me."

1337
01:05:24,361 --> 01:05:26,594
I said, "Look, I want them
to tell me where the money is,

1338
01:05:26,663 --> 01:05:30,165
so I can go get it.
I'm happy to pay my taxes."

1339
01:05:30,234 --> 01:05:32,834
-If Cleo has a buttload of money
stashed somewhere,

1340
01:05:32,903 --> 01:05:36,071
I would probably know it, right?

1341
01:05:36,140 --> 01:05:39,674
She was a roommate at my house.

1342
01:05:39,743 --> 01:05:45,113
-The industry/the media knows
what people are gonna watch,

1343
01:05:45,182 --> 01:05:52,182
and it's not a beautiful,
kind-hearted conversation

1344
01:05:52,657 --> 01:05:53,989
of positivity.

1345
01:05:54,058 --> 01:05:57,392
It is the rise and fall
of a pop star

1346
01:05:57,461 --> 01:06:02,431
and the sex scandal
of the high-end media mogul.

1347
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:05,300
-How they portrayed Cleo
destroyed her.

1348
01:06:05,369 --> 01:06:07,235
They took her identity.
They took her name.

1349
01:06:07,304 --> 01:06:10,166
They sensationalized her.
They villainized her.

1350
01:06:10,235 --> 01:06:13,574
Of course that had an effect
on her. How could it not?

1351
01:06:13,643 --> 01:06:19,080
-I surely did believe that,
if the truth was there

1352
01:06:19,149 --> 01:06:22,851
in black and white,
that, um...

1353
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,520
I'm sorry.

1354
01:06:24,589 --> 01:06:26,125
-It's alright.

1355
01:06:30,327 --> 01:06:35,097
...that surely
people would have sense.

1356
01:06:35,166 --> 01:06:37,500
People would understand.

1357
01:06:37,569 --> 01:06:39,367
[ Sniffles ]

1358
01:06:39,436 --> 01:06:41,637
But that's not the way it goes.

1359
01:06:41,706 --> 01:06:48,706
♪♪

1360
01:06:50,181 --> 01:06:57,181
♪♪

1361
01:06:58,823 --> 01:07:05,823
♪♪

1362
01:07:07,499 --> 01:07:14,499
♪♪

1363
01:07:15,773 --> 01:07:22,044
-It's hard to imagine your
very identity being questioned.

1364
01:07:22,113 --> 01:07:24,512
"You're not real.
That's fake."

1365
01:07:24,581 --> 01:07:27,683
-I stand before you today
and proudly proclaim,

1366
01:07:27,752 --> 01:07:29,484
I am a voodoo woman,

1367
01:07:29,553 --> 01:07:32,787
and Y. Cleomili is my name.

1368
01:07:32,856 --> 01:07:37,359
-So that every single time
you open your mouth...

1369
01:07:37,428 --> 01:07:39,928
-So you're probably
a little bit tired,

1370
01:07:39,997 --> 01:07:41,296
a little bit worn out,

1371
01:07:41,365 --> 01:07:44,399
but I don't want you
to be faint of heart.

1372
01:07:44,468 --> 01:07:49,371
-...everywhere you go,
as soon as you begin speaking,

1373
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,609
people automatically think
you're a fraud.

1374
01:07:54,678 --> 01:07:57,045
-You been to Jamaica?
[ Chuckles ]

1375
01:07:57,114 --> 01:07:58,846
No, she wasn't Jamaican.

1376
01:07:58,915 --> 01:08:04,553
-In the Jamaican community.
It was just sort of comical

1377
01:08:04,622 --> 01:08:07,823
that there was this person
on television

1378
01:08:07,892 --> 01:08:09,490
pretending to be Jamaican.

1379
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:12,860
And it was obvious to
every Jamaican that she was not.

1380
01:08:12,929 --> 01:08:16,131
-Not one time did she not speak
with a Jamaican accent

1381
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:17,766
the whole time I knew her.

1382
01:08:17,835 --> 01:08:23,338
-It's easier for Black people
to convince non-Black people

1383
01:08:23,407 --> 01:08:24,906
of their exoticism.

1384
01:08:24,975 --> 01:08:27,909
Whereas, Black folks --
we're gonna be like, "Mm-kay."

1385
01:08:27,978 --> 01:08:34,978
Like, there's a bit more vetting
that comes from within.

1386
01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:38,854
What it sounds like
is that where she was,

1387
01:08:38,923 --> 01:08:40,422
she wasn't in a Black community.

1388
01:08:40,491 --> 01:08:42,290
It wasn't a whole lot
of Black people.

1389
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:43,958
It was majority white folks.

1390
01:08:44,027 --> 01:08:47,596
It was easy for her to go into
the community that she was in,

1391
01:08:47,665 --> 01:08:51,200
that she lived
the rest of her life in,

1392
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:56,204
and convince people
of who she wanted to be.

1393
01:08:56,273 --> 01:09:00,242
-So now we're getting a chance
to see the cracks in the facade,

1394
01:09:00,311 --> 01:09:01,676
to see the human being.

1395
01:09:01,745 --> 01:09:03,278
-"She wasn't from here.
She wasn't from there.

1396
01:09:03,347 --> 01:09:04,980
She didn't do this.
We don't know."

1397
01:09:05,049 --> 01:09:07,449
Who cares?
I don't care.

1398
01:09:07,518 --> 01:09:11,186
-Love doesn't have an accent.

1399
01:09:11,255 --> 01:09:13,688
Compassion
doesn't have an accent.

1400
01:09:13,757 --> 01:09:17,927
-She created this powerful,
comfortable character and being.

1401
01:09:17,996 --> 01:09:20,090
I get her.
I get it.

1402
01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:21,596
This is her way
to be in the world

1403
01:09:21,665 --> 01:09:23,831
and say, "I am worthy.
I am valid."

1404
01:09:23,900 --> 01:09:25,800
-When you think about
the question of identity

1405
01:09:25,869 --> 01:09:29,304
and who we are
and how we become who we are,

1406
01:09:29,373 --> 01:09:33,541
maybe we don't all arrive
at it the same way.

1407
01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:35,510
-She was not wanting to come
out of her house,

1408
01:09:35,579 --> 01:09:37,578
not wanting anyone to see her.

1409
01:09:37,647 --> 01:09:39,714
We let her know
that she wasn't alone,

1410
01:09:39,783 --> 01:09:43,618
that she didn't have to try
to tell us who she was

1411
01:09:43,687 --> 01:09:46,588
because we knew who she was,
and it was important for us

1412
01:09:46,657 --> 01:09:48,389
to try to get her
out of that house

1413
01:09:48,458 --> 01:09:50,459
and start to breathe again.

1414
01:09:50,528 --> 01:09:54,263
Tim, being, so many ways,
the big brother --

1415
01:09:54,332 --> 01:09:56,498
he just wouldn't take no
for an answer.

1416
01:09:56,567 --> 01:09:59,501
-We found where she lived
and knocked on her door

1417
01:09:59,570 --> 01:10:02,870
and asked her to come
to our house one Sunday.

1418
01:10:02,939 --> 01:10:07,543
It took every -- practically
wrestling that woman into a car

1419
01:10:07,612 --> 01:10:09,244
to get her to our house.

1420
01:10:09,313 --> 01:10:11,479
The first Sunday she came,

1421
01:10:11,548 --> 01:10:14,749
it was very quiet
and very peaceful.

1422
01:10:14,818 --> 01:10:18,386
And we ate and we drank
and we talk and we laughed.

1423
01:10:18,455 --> 01:10:21,789
-♪ There's nothing to it ♪

1424
01:10:21,858 --> 01:10:24,792
♪ 'Cause I believe I can fly ♪
-Whoo!

1425
01:10:24,861 --> 01:10:27,762
-We started having these
Sunday barbecues at our house.

1426
01:10:27,831 --> 01:10:32,968
Cleo showed up one day,
and it was almost instantaneous.

1427
01:10:33,037 --> 01:10:35,136
She just --
there was just a connection.

1428
01:10:35,205 --> 01:10:37,872
From that point on, I mean,
I saw her every Sunday

1429
01:10:37,941 --> 01:10:42,410
for the next 5 to 6, 7 years,
something like that.

1430
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,845
Sunday barbecues
were really big at our house,

1431
01:10:44,914 --> 01:10:48,784
and she was the cornerstone
to all of that.

1432
01:10:48,853 --> 01:10:54,923
♪♪

1433
01:10:54,992 --> 01:11:00,861
♪♪

1434
01:11:00,930 --> 01:11:06,567
-When I met her, she was just
coming out of seclusion.

1435
01:11:06,636 --> 01:11:12,240
So she had lived
for several years as a recluse,

1436
01:11:12,309 --> 01:11:15,447
hidden away from society.

1437
01:11:18,215 --> 01:11:22,150
She was completely silenced.

1438
01:11:22,219 --> 01:11:28,589
And Cleo -- that's not her
natural way of living.

1439
01:11:28,658 --> 01:11:32,222
And then she found my
coffee house, and there she was.

1440
01:11:32,291 --> 01:11:35,630
It was kind of a-a safe place
for her.

1441
01:11:35,699 --> 01:11:39,167
-♪ Left a good job in the city ♪

1442
01:11:39,236 --> 01:11:40,768
-When I had my coffee house,

1443
01:11:40,837 --> 01:11:45,540
it was quite a quirky,
weird little place.

1444
01:11:45,609 --> 01:11:49,444
-Cleo latched onto that place.

1445
01:11:49,513 --> 01:11:51,574
-♪ For the answers
for all them ♪

1446
01:11:51,643 --> 01:11:57,681
-Mother Earth was our local
LGBT-friendly coffee shop.

1447
01:11:57,750 --> 01:12:03,091
♪♪

1448
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:08,496
♪♪

1449
01:12:08,565 --> 01:12:11,599
I was organizing
in Palm Beach County

1450
01:12:11,668 --> 01:12:16,971
with a small group of activists
for LGBT equality,

1451
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,809
and I wanted to go south and do
the same in Broward County.

1452
01:12:21,878 --> 01:12:26,042
So I asked, "Who out there can
help me organize Broward County

1453
01:12:26,111 --> 01:12:29,384
to fight for equal rights?"

1454
01:12:29,453 --> 01:12:32,920
Cleo said she would do it.

1455
01:12:32,989 --> 01:12:35,691
She was one of the few people
that raised her hand

1456
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,826
and said, "I'll -- I'll help."

1457
01:12:38,895 --> 01:12:42,965
I quickly figured out
that Cleo was the activist type.

1458
01:12:43,034 --> 01:12:44,833
-At the time, 2005-2006,

1459
01:12:44,902 --> 01:12:46,701
different bills
were being passed

1460
01:12:46,770 --> 01:12:48,636
and introduced
in the state of Florida.

1461
01:12:48,705 --> 01:12:52,307
She was sick of it and was like,
"I need to do something."

1462
01:12:52,376 --> 01:12:55,142
-She wanted to go
"catch a fire,"

1463
01:12:55,211 --> 01:12:59,414
which I think is Jamaican for
when they wanted to raise hell.

1464
01:12:59,483 --> 01:13:01,882
-I was very active
in the state of Florida,

1465
01:13:01,951 --> 01:13:05,553
standing up for things
that I perceive are -- are right

1466
01:13:05,622 --> 01:13:07,822
and correct and -- and good.

1467
01:13:07,891 --> 01:13:09,490
-She wanted
to make a difference,

1468
01:13:09,559 --> 01:13:11,893
and she knew how to move people.

1469
01:13:11,962 --> 01:13:14,696
She felt like she needed to use
what her gift was

1470
01:13:14,765 --> 01:13:16,799
to help the community,
to help move people

1471
01:13:16,868 --> 01:13:18,266
in the right direction.

1472
01:13:18,335 --> 01:13:21,673
[ Indistinct conversation ]

1473
01:13:24,675 --> 01:13:27,575
-What's up, mofos?
-Hi.

1474
01:13:27,644 --> 01:13:29,344
-What, Mom?
-Hi, sweetheart.

1475
01:13:29,413 --> 01:13:31,446
-Remind me to tell you
the balance of it.

1476
01:13:31,515 --> 01:13:33,848
-So I'm cooking some tilapia.

1477
01:13:33,917 --> 01:13:36,784
And she introduced me
to the community,

1478
01:13:36,853 --> 01:13:39,755
and she took me
to my first Pride March,

1479
01:13:39,824 --> 01:13:42,657
working for
Equality Florida,

1480
01:13:42,726 --> 01:13:46,294
trying to collect signatures
to stop an Amendment 2

1481
01:13:46,363 --> 01:13:47,795
to from appearing on the ballot,

1482
01:13:47,864 --> 01:13:50,031
which was basically
an anti-gay-marriage bill

1483
01:13:50,100 --> 01:13:52,662
that existed before
the Supreme Court decision.

1484
01:13:52,731 --> 01:13:56,166
Really, that was my first
exposure to the gay community.

1485
01:13:56,235 --> 01:13:58,073
She would call me her godson.

1486
01:13:58,142 --> 01:14:02,711
It was like she is my guardian,
and I am her son,

1487
01:14:02,780 --> 01:14:04,580
but, like, in a spiritual sense.

1488
01:14:04,649 --> 01:14:06,081
I was already a nerdy kid.

1489
01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:09,284
I didn't want to add more
kind of like --

1490
01:14:09,353 --> 01:14:10,552
be identifying with something

1491
01:14:10,621 --> 01:14:13,422
that would make me
more ostracized.

1492
01:14:13,491 --> 01:14:16,924
But, you know, I already knew
by the time I was, you know,

1493
01:14:16,993 --> 01:14:19,094
figuring out who I liked to look
at, I was looking at boys.

1494
01:14:19,163 --> 01:14:22,130
I actually knew
probably for a few years

1495
01:14:22,199 --> 01:14:25,567
before I actually came out,
and I came out at 16.

1496
01:14:25,636 --> 01:14:27,602
-When Cleo helped him,

1497
01:14:27,671 --> 01:14:29,837
ultimately,
they helped each other.

1498
01:14:29,906 --> 01:14:33,108
-And it was Matt's coming out
that was her impetus

1499
01:14:33,177 --> 01:14:38,180
to -- to come out,
because she -- she couldn't live

1500
01:14:38,249 --> 01:14:39,747
the lie any longer.

1501
01:14:39,816 --> 01:14:42,850
-She says, "If Matt can do it,
I can do it."

1502
01:14:42,919 --> 01:14:46,788
-She told me that she was
going to publicly come out

1503
01:14:46,857 --> 01:14:48,924
and that she had actually
mentioned me

1504
01:14:48,993 --> 01:14:51,587
in this article
for "The Advocate."

1505
01:14:51,656 --> 01:14:55,430
I remember her being
really excited about it

1506
01:14:55,499 --> 01:14:58,194
and feeling like
she had the space

1507
01:14:58,263 --> 01:14:59,967
to actually tell her story.

1508
01:15:00,036 --> 01:15:04,039
It felt absolutely amazing.
People were appreciative.

1509
01:15:04,108 --> 01:15:07,142
People were lovely,
very, very supportive.

1510
01:15:07,211 --> 01:15:08,909
-But, like, she kind of, like,
whispered it to me

1511
01:15:08,978 --> 01:15:11,546
and I was like, "Wait, what?"
-I heard she was family.

1512
01:15:11,615 --> 01:15:16,384
Then I heard she was a part of
the LGBTQ plus XYZ community.

1513
01:15:16,453 --> 01:15:18,787
Yes, go ahead, Miss Cleo.

1514
01:15:18,856 --> 01:15:21,256
-It's -- It's hard to --
to try to imagine

1515
01:15:21,325 --> 01:15:23,253
what things
must've been like for Cleo,

1516
01:15:23,322 --> 01:15:25,226
because we were so different.

1517
01:15:25,295 --> 01:15:26,995
I'm a white, gay dude.

1518
01:15:27,064 --> 01:15:30,431
That's, like, a very different
space to grow up

1519
01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:32,834
than -- in the --
in the 2000's --

1520
01:15:32,903 --> 01:15:36,238
than a Black lesbian woman
in the '70s, right?

1521
01:15:36,307 --> 01:15:42,610
♪♪

1522
01:15:42,679 --> 01:15:45,380
-Well, my name now
is Matt Sheridan,

1523
01:15:45,449 --> 01:15:49,351
but when I was with Cleo,
my name was MaryAnn Sheridan,

1524
01:15:49,420 --> 01:15:52,387
because I was a lesbian
when I was with Cleo,

1525
01:15:52,456 --> 01:15:55,690
and I am a transgender man now.
[ Laughs ]

1526
01:15:55,759 --> 01:15:59,660
I felt just as secure with her,
really, as she did with me,

1527
01:15:59,729 --> 01:16:01,130
'cause I needed that, too,
you know?

1528
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:02,830
I mean, I needed that,
and she was there.

1529
01:16:02,899 --> 01:16:04,932
She was very supportive
of anything

1530
01:16:05,001 --> 01:16:07,135
I wanted to do in my life
or what I was doing,

1531
01:16:07,204 --> 01:16:08,969
my dreams, my aspirations,
whatever.

1532
01:16:09,038 --> 01:16:11,139
We bounced stuff
off of each other all the time.

1533
01:16:11,208 --> 01:16:12,940
You know, we did
the Pride Festival.

1534
01:16:13,009 --> 01:16:16,043
She was the master
of ceremonies, so that was fun.

1535
01:16:16,112 --> 01:16:18,680
We didn't -- We didn't
do a whole bunch of stuff,

1536
01:16:18,749 --> 01:16:20,082
but we didn't need to.

1537
01:16:20,151 --> 01:16:22,183
When she cooked, too,
she was an awesome cook.

1538
01:16:22,252 --> 01:16:24,319
I mean, she's the one that got
me hooked on sweet potato pie.

1539
01:16:24,388 --> 01:16:27,988
And I said to her, "This is my
first interracial relationship."

1540
01:16:28,057 --> 01:16:31,326
She didn't believe me.
She said, "I don't believe you."

1541
01:16:31,395 --> 01:16:33,928
I said, "I'm telling you."
I said, "Wait, no.

1542
01:16:33,997 --> 01:16:37,132
Technically, it is, but I had
this really vivid,

1543
01:16:37,201 --> 01:16:39,134
realistic dream
with Janet Jackson,"

1544
01:16:39,203 --> 01:16:42,304
so after I told her that,
she got jealous --

1545
01:16:42,373 --> 01:16:43,938
jealous of Janet.

1546
01:16:44,007 --> 01:16:47,175
I was like, "It was a dream,
but it was realistic."

1547
01:16:47,244 --> 01:16:50,411
-Cleo, Come on, girl,
You can't be mad at that.

1548
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:53,881
It's Janet. I'm -- I'm --
She got a baby at about 65,

1549
01:16:53,950 --> 01:16:55,584
and I'm still like, "Hey, honey,
I'll be right back."

1550
01:16:55,653 --> 01:16:57,085
Like, come on, it's Janet.

1551
01:16:57,154 --> 01:16:59,349
-We had a great time.
We did.

1552
01:16:59,418 --> 01:17:00,722
The only reason we parted ways

1553
01:17:00,791 --> 01:17:02,157
is because we just had
a little difference.

1554
01:17:02,226 --> 01:17:03,825
She was more want to be out
and about,

1555
01:17:03,894 --> 01:17:06,026
of course, probably because
of her newfound freedom.

1556
01:17:06,095 --> 01:17:08,429
"I want to be out and about.
I'm out of the cage."

1557
01:17:08,498 --> 01:17:12,701
-You know, she wanted
to kind of come out of seclusion

1558
01:17:12,770 --> 01:17:14,336
and start living, you know?

1559
01:17:14,405 --> 01:17:20,141
-I was being entertained to do
a reality TV dating show...

1560
01:17:20,210 --> 01:17:22,610
[ Laughs ]

1561
01:17:22,679 --> 01:17:24,980
...where they were gonna find
Miss Cleo a girlfriend,

1562
01:17:25,049 --> 01:17:27,882
'cause at the time,
I didn't have one.

1563
01:17:27,951 --> 01:17:32,153
Before I got much more into
setting up the pilot,

1564
01:17:32,222 --> 01:17:34,456
I met my -- my present partner,
so...

1565
01:17:34,525 --> 01:17:36,023
[ Laughs ]

1566
01:17:36,092 --> 01:17:41,130
...she saved me from weeks
of kissing, you know, strangers.

1567
01:17:41,199 --> 01:17:43,566
I don't know.
-I think if Cleo had

1568
01:17:43,635 --> 01:17:45,266
a love of her life,

1569
01:17:45,335 --> 01:17:50,242
the one who came closest
to that was Lou.

1570
01:17:52,176 --> 01:17:56,611
-I went for a walk
to the coffee shop.

1571
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:03,218
Patti was outside, talking to
this amazing-looking woman

1572
01:18:03,287 --> 01:18:10,092
that I didn't recognize,
but just beaming smile.

1573
01:18:10,161 --> 01:18:12,827
I was immediately
attracted to her.

1574
01:18:12,896 --> 01:18:15,998
Patti introduced her to me
as Miss Cleo.

1575
01:18:16,067 --> 01:18:18,032
I never put two and two
together,

1576
01:18:18,101 --> 01:18:22,169
but Patti then went inside
and let us alone to chat,

1577
01:18:22,238 --> 01:18:25,606
and we just ended up laughing
together and having some fun.

1578
01:18:25,675 --> 01:18:29,844
When I met her, I had just
come out, and I was 61.

1579
01:18:29,913 --> 01:18:36,050
Then I met Miss Cleo,
my first relationship.

1580
01:18:36,119 --> 01:18:40,322
I was just so thrilled
because she was so interesting,

1581
01:18:40,391 --> 01:18:45,627
and I was thinking, "What in the
world would she see in me,

1582
01:18:45,696 --> 01:18:48,698
this white woman
from Wisconsin?"

1583
01:18:48,767 --> 01:18:50,732
I couldn't put that together,

1584
01:18:50,801 --> 01:18:52,801
but she thought
that I was funny.

1585
01:18:52,870 --> 01:18:55,403
She loved me.

1586
01:18:55,472 --> 01:19:00,002
-I just kind of watched it
unfold, and it was beautiful.

1587
01:19:00,071 --> 01:19:04,779
I think that there were
so many things on Cleo's list

1588
01:19:04,848 --> 01:19:07,082
that she could
check off with Lou.

1589
01:19:07,151 --> 01:19:12,154
-I do believe that,
when you are ready,

1590
01:19:12,223 --> 01:19:14,723
that those things do come
to you.

1591
01:19:14,792 --> 01:19:16,919
It wasn't a coincidence,

1592
01:19:16,988 --> 01:19:20,829
and I don't necessarily believe
in fate either.

1593
01:19:20,898 --> 01:19:23,165
-Time is manmade.
Time is elusive.

1594
01:19:23,234 --> 01:19:25,934
People say, "Can you fall
in love at first sight?"

1595
01:19:26,003 --> 01:19:28,202
Absolutely, you can.

1596
01:19:28,271 --> 01:19:31,772
-They kind of moved around
each other very, very smoothly.

1597
01:19:31,841 --> 01:19:37,045
They appeared to kind of enjoy
being in each other's presence.

1598
01:19:37,114 --> 01:19:40,916
-So was she ready for me?
Apparently so.

1599
01:19:40,985 --> 01:19:44,056
And I was most certainly
ready for her.

1600
01:19:46,257 --> 01:19:51,960
The story about Cleo was she was
a deeply feeling person,

1601
01:19:52,029 --> 01:19:58,066
felt pain, emotional pain,
like everybody else.

1602
01:19:58,135 --> 01:20:00,368
I loved all of those things
about her,

1603
01:20:00,437 --> 01:20:07,437
but the gift that she had
was a gift and a burden.

1604
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,016
It was difficult.

1605
01:20:13,850 --> 01:20:17,285
-I could see where people
would judge her.

1606
01:20:17,354 --> 01:20:21,390
But, you know, if we're going
with the assumption

1607
01:20:21,459 --> 01:20:24,293
that the reason
that she cultivated Miss Cleo

1608
01:20:24,362 --> 01:20:27,129
was to deal with the wound
of that deep trauma

1609
01:20:27,198 --> 01:20:32,234
that she had experienced,
like, she found an outlet.

1610
01:20:32,303 --> 01:20:34,573
And that's what we do
as human beings.

1611
01:20:36,340 --> 01:20:38,701
-She made something of herself,

1612
01:20:38,770 --> 01:20:40,042
and you have to
as a Black woman.

1613
01:20:40,111 --> 01:20:44,880
She said, "I am not about
to sit here and...

1614
01:20:44,949 --> 01:20:47,382
not do something about this."

1615
01:20:47,451 --> 01:20:51,486
-I've sympathized with her
over the years as well,

1616
01:20:51,555 --> 01:20:55,857
because I imagine
that she moved through life

1617
01:20:55,926 --> 01:20:57,927
with a certain level
of heaviness

1618
01:20:57,996 --> 01:21:00,128
that she couldn't lift.

1619
01:21:00,197 --> 01:21:03,531
If I can balance
my recollections of her

1620
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,835
with acknowledging
that there are ways

1621
01:21:06,904 --> 01:21:08,870
in which she caused people pain,

1622
01:21:08,939 --> 01:21:12,475
but there are also ways
in which she brought people joy,

1623
01:21:12,544 --> 01:21:14,075
then I'm okay with that.

1624
01:21:14,144 --> 01:21:16,211
I think, for me as an adult now,

1625
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,180
I understand a little bit
better, perhaps,

1626
01:21:19,249 --> 01:21:21,851
what it must have been like
to be her.

1627
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,252
-So there's all the wounds,
right?

1628
01:21:24,321 --> 01:21:30,860
All the damage, and then
on the flip side of that,

1629
01:21:30,929 --> 01:21:36,531
is this heart
that loves fiercely.

1630
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,535
-But I think her trauma
was driven.

1631
01:21:40,604 --> 01:21:45,107
Her trauma was truly driven
to become who she was.

1632
01:21:45,176 --> 01:21:47,209
If she were here today,
I think she would say

1633
01:21:47,278 --> 01:21:51,212
it wasn't her intention
to hurt people.

1634
01:21:51,281 --> 01:21:55,316
-How our relationship ended
is not fully known to me.

1635
01:21:55,385 --> 01:21:57,452
We had a great relationship.

1636
01:21:57,521 --> 01:22:02,257
But, you know, I probably would
say, the last couple years,

1637
01:22:02,326 --> 01:22:07,930
it was closer to roommate
than a romantic relationship.

1638
01:22:07,999 --> 01:22:10,093
We were starting
to get distanced now.

1639
01:22:10,162 --> 01:22:13,234
She was starting to be away
from the house more.

1640
01:22:13,303 --> 01:22:15,170
She was going over
to a friend's house,

1641
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:18,302
and before I knew it,
she said, "I'm moving out."

1642
01:22:18,371 --> 01:22:25,371
♪♪

1643
01:22:26,517 --> 01:22:28,183
-She told me about this dream,

1644
01:22:28,252 --> 01:22:30,651
and there would be an elderly
woman sitting in a chair

1645
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:35,018
that's off in a distance,
like in a cloudy, hazy...

1646
01:22:35,087 --> 01:22:37,287
And she would started
to walk up to this woman

1647
01:22:37,356 --> 01:22:40,395
and the woman yelled back at
her, "What are you doing here?

1648
01:22:40,464 --> 01:22:43,135
You're not supposed
to be here yet."

1649
01:22:45,903 --> 01:22:47,402
And that's when she woke up,

1650
01:22:47,471 --> 01:22:53,375
and she really felt
that she was gone at that point.

1651
01:22:53,444 --> 01:22:56,979
You know,
she had no fear of it happening.

1652
01:22:57,048 --> 01:23:04,048
♪♪

1653
01:23:05,089 --> 01:23:07,555
-This is your godmother.

1654
01:23:07,624 --> 01:23:10,525
I'm gonna try and see
if you're gonna be home.

1655
01:23:10,594 --> 01:23:13,098
Call me back, though, eh?
Bye-bye.

1656
01:23:14,864 --> 01:23:19,334
-I didn't even know
that she had cancer.

1657
01:23:19,403 --> 01:23:25,936
From what I heard, she had gone
on a trip to the Bahamas

1658
01:23:26,005 --> 01:23:31,579
as kind of a last trip
of her life.

1659
01:23:31,648 --> 01:23:34,850
And they didn't --
they didn't make it.

1660
01:23:34,919 --> 01:23:37,180
She had to come back.

1661
01:23:37,249 --> 01:23:41,323
-She called me just before
she went into hospice,

1662
01:23:41,392 --> 01:23:45,297
and she just wanted
to say goodbye.

1663
01:23:46,530 --> 01:23:49,097
I just said, "I so appreciate

1664
01:23:49,166 --> 01:23:51,266
everything that you've done
for me.

1665
01:23:51,335 --> 01:23:53,672
I am so grateful."

1666
01:23:56,340 --> 01:23:59,244
My life was forever changed.

1667
01:24:03,214 --> 01:24:06,916
-We all went up to the hospital.

1668
01:24:06,985 --> 01:24:08,683
-I was like, "Fuck, like,
that's --

1669
01:24:08,752 --> 01:24:10,419
I'm -- I'll meet you
right there."

1670
01:24:10,488 --> 01:24:12,687
I just started heading south.

1671
01:24:12,756 --> 01:24:15,791
-I was wondering, like, you
know, "Should I go out there?

1672
01:24:15,860 --> 01:24:17,292
Can I go out there?"

1673
01:24:17,361 --> 01:24:19,327
-I probably got to Jacksonville,

1674
01:24:19,396 --> 01:24:21,396
and my mom called me
and she said....

1675
01:24:21,465 --> 01:24:23,498
-"Don't come. Turn around.

1676
01:24:23,567 --> 01:24:25,801
This can not be
your last memory.

1677
01:24:25,870 --> 01:24:27,135
Turn around."

1678
01:24:27,204 --> 01:24:29,371
-'Cause she's so far gone
at this point

1679
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:33,108
that she's not even
really able to recognize us.

1680
01:24:33,177 --> 01:24:36,344
-I kissed Cleo's cheek.

1681
01:24:36,413 --> 01:24:37,946
I told her we loved her,

1682
01:24:38,015 --> 01:24:40,983
and I know that
she could hear us and feel us.

1683
01:24:41,052 --> 01:24:47,389
♪♪

1684
01:24:47,458 --> 01:24:50,558
Till the next time.

1685
01:24:50,627 --> 01:24:55,530
-Well-known TV psychic Miss Cleo
died today in Palm Beach County.

1686
01:24:55,599 --> 01:24:57,098
Terry Parker joins us live
from Lake Worth.

1687
01:24:57,167 --> 01:25:00,235
Terry, I know you spoke
with a friend of Miss Cleo's.

1688
01:25:00,304 --> 01:25:05,675
-She was funny
and boisterous and, um...

1689
01:25:05,744 --> 01:25:07,576
uh...

1690
01:25:07,645 --> 01:25:11,179
Was kind of a rebel at heart.

1691
01:25:11,248 --> 01:25:16,719
♪♪

1692
01:25:16,788 --> 01:25:21,823
♪♪

1693
01:25:21,892 --> 01:25:26,561
-It was a being she took
on personally, psychologically,

1694
01:25:26,630 --> 01:25:28,797
emotionally, and invested in.

1695
01:25:28,866 --> 01:25:30,894
That's why we were invested.
Was it accurate?

1696
01:25:30,963 --> 01:25:32,501
Did it always come true?
No.

1697
01:25:32,570 --> 01:25:35,203
But did she make you feel good
in that moment?

1698
01:25:35,272 --> 01:25:36,671
Did she make you feel that

1699
01:25:36,740 --> 01:25:39,540
you can turn that into
your own personal reality?

1700
01:25:39,609 --> 01:25:44,379
-Was it, you know, performative?
Yes.

1701
01:25:44,448 --> 01:25:47,617
Was she actually, you know,
trying to help people?

1702
01:25:47,686 --> 01:25:49,818
Yes, again.

1703
01:25:49,887 --> 01:25:53,422
-What she gave to the camera,
she gave in real life.

1704
01:25:53,491 --> 01:25:56,219
-You got to see
the vulnerable pieces of her.

1705
01:25:56,288 --> 01:25:59,561
-I want people to change
their mind about Cleo.

1706
01:25:59,630 --> 01:26:05,400
I want people to see
how -- how real this is.

1707
01:26:05,469 --> 01:26:08,837
I don't want her to be a cliché.

1708
01:26:08,906 --> 01:26:15,477
The real story from beginning
of difficulty and heartbreak

1709
01:26:15,546 --> 01:26:20,249
and yet her ability to give
and to help people.

1710
01:26:20,318 --> 01:26:26,922
-And whatever happened that
allowed our union to be made,

1711
01:26:26,991 --> 01:26:28,456
what a gift.

1712
01:26:28,525 --> 01:26:32,527
What she gave us is better
than anything in life

1713
01:26:32,596 --> 01:26:36,831
that you could desire
to accumulate -- wisdom.

1714
01:26:36,900 --> 01:26:43,205
-In between all of the parodies,
in between all of the lawsuits,

1715
01:26:43,274 --> 01:26:46,576
in between all of the scamming,
there was a golden truth

1716
01:26:46,645 --> 01:26:48,304
that outweighed it all.

1717
01:26:48,373 --> 01:26:50,178
-I had someone say to me
once, "Well, Miss Cleo,

1718
01:26:50,247 --> 01:26:52,313
it's not so much that you tell
everybody what they do,

1719
01:26:52,382 --> 01:26:55,483
but you inspire them."

1720
01:26:55,552 --> 01:27:00,322
So perhaps it's nothing more
than that for any of us.

1721
01:27:00,391 --> 01:27:02,390
Perhaps it's nothing
more than that.

1722
01:27:02,459 --> 01:27:05,593
-Her desire and her want
for herself

1723
01:27:05,662 --> 01:27:07,663
became her want for the world --

1724
01:27:07,732 --> 01:27:11,466
to be loved, to be validated,

1725
01:27:11,535 --> 01:27:15,403
and to find a place
that was a safe haven within you

1726
01:27:15,472 --> 01:27:17,642
for your own success.

1727
01:27:19,609 --> 01:27:21,544
And I think that's greater
than any psychic ability

1728
01:27:21,613 --> 01:27:23,846
on this fucking planet.

1729
01:27:23,915 --> 01:27:25,180
-Some call me the devil.

1730
01:27:25,249 --> 01:27:28,316
They wave their Bibles
and curse the ground I walk.

1731
01:27:28,385 --> 01:27:31,314
My response?
Never what they expect.

1732
01:27:31,383 --> 01:27:33,855
I travel with an entourage
you cannot see.

1733
01:27:33,924 --> 01:27:36,425
Trips to the cemetery
just before midnight

1734
01:27:36,494 --> 01:27:39,860
with offerings of music,
drink, and lots of sweets,

1735
01:27:39,929 --> 01:27:43,165
making it possible for me
to reach out and touch you,

1736
01:27:43,234 --> 01:27:45,700
no matter the country or city.

1737
01:27:45,769 --> 01:27:48,437
Can't care what you believe.
It's all about what I believe.

1738
01:27:48,506 --> 01:27:51,706
But I thought you know --
warlocks, wizards,

1739
01:27:51,775 --> 01:27:55,143
masquerading as magicians
and illusionists,

1740
01:27:55,212 --> 01:27:57,812
they're all real, too.

1741
01:27:57,881 --> 01:28:01,849
A most exquisite coup d'état,
convincing people

1742
01:28:01,918 --> 01:28:06,154
that witches and warlocks
and magic doesn't really exist.

1743
01:28:06,223 --> 01:28:08,123
How is ignorance so bliss?

1744
01:28:08,192 --> 01:28:09,691
Got an itch, an upset stomach,

1745
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,026
or a headache so bad
you can hardly see?

1746
01:28:12,095 --> 01:28:16,065
Doctors can't find a reason.
Sounds like voodoo to me.

1747
01:28:16,134 --> 01:28:17,532
Laugh if you want,

1748
01:28:17,601 --> 01:28:20,002
mock us if you dare,
but don't come crying to me

1749
01:28:20,071 --> 01:28:21,502
when you start to lose
all your hair.

1750
01:28:21,571 --> 01:28:24,606
And for the record,
voodoo is not bad.

1751
01:28:24,675 --> 01:28:27,442
It can heal your body,
protect your home,

1752
01:28:27,511 --> 01:28:30,011
quiet your soul,
block your enemy,

1753
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:33,414
keep you connected with loved
ones on the other side

1754
01:28:33,483 --> 01:28:35,584
so you don't have to feel alone.

1755
01:28:35,653 --> 01:28:38,085
Rude bwoy, fass gyal,
poor man, rich man,

1756
01:28:38,154 --> 01:28:42,157
my little black book holds
more secrets than Heidi Fleiss

1757
01:28:42,226 --> 01:28:44,029
and the DC Madam.

1758
01:28:47,031 --> 01:28:49,164
What threat do I pose,
and to who?

1759
01:28:49,233 --> 01:28:53,001
See here, my dears,
I've got nothing to prove.

1760
01:28:53,070 --> 01:28:56,466
Be slow to criticize
what you don't understand,

1761
01:28:56,535 --> 01:28:58,607
lest the hair you lost
will start to grow back

1762
01:28:58,676 --> 01:29:01,242
in the palm of your hand.

1763
01:29:01,311 --> 01:29:02,610
Throughout Jah's land,

1764
01:29:02,679 --> 01:29:05,047
from continent to continent,
we are spread.

1765
01:29:05,116 --> 01:29:06,609
Our task is great.

1766
01:29:06,678 --> 01:29:09,784
So even if you kill me,
those who are left to carry on

1767
01:29:09,853 --> 01:29:12,220
have no problem
chatting with the dead.

1768
01:29:12,289 --> 01:29:15,323
[ Laughs ]

1769
01:29:15,392 --> 01:29:16,858
I don't want you to cry.

1770
01:29:16,927 --> 01:29:19,160
I want to try and say something
to make you stop crying.

1771
01:29:19,229 --> 01:29:20,695
I want you to feel stronger.

1772
01:29:20,764 --> 01:29:23,030
I want you
to feel more empowered.

1773
01:29:23,099 --> 01:29:26,468
It's okay if you feel
a little bit lost right now,

1774
01:29:26,537 --> 01:29:28,503
because later,
you're gonna find yourself

1775
01:29:28,572 --> 01:29:31,072
and you can take back
your power.

1776
01:29:31,141 --> 01:29:36,479
Do not feel like a victim
to any situation or to any one.

1777
01:29:36,548 --> 01:29:38,446
I am what you see today,

1778
01:29:38,515 --> 01:29:42,851
and I will probably be that way
until I'm ready to cross over,

1779
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:47,122
and will probably stay that same
way, even on crossover.

1780
01:29:47,191 --> 01:29:50,553
Because that's what I do.
I take care of people.

1781
01:29:50,622 --> 01:29:54,696
I don't work for the living.
I work for the dead.

1782
01:29:54,765 --> 01:29:56,631
The living
can't tell me anything.

1783
01:29:56,700 --> 01:29:59,468
You know, the dead -- they
always have good intent.

1784
01:29:59,537 --> 01:30:02,938
[ Laughs ]

1785
01:30:03,007 --> 01:30:12,684
♪♪



