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Ready to play? What's the day?

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Kids' TV -

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it's been entertaining
and educating us for generations.

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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But if you think
it's just about cartoons,

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competitions and...

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Crackerjack!

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..look again. Disgusting!

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Kids' TV has been challenging.

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It just went - boom!

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And that's when all the questions
started to be asked.

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I don't like the unruly children.
Hello?

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Programme makers have taken risks...

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In the event of a nuclear
war, where will you be?

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If something goes wrong,
put a camera on it.

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Madness, really,
but kids love madness.

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And the message has been,
it's OK to be different.

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A lot of people used to say to me,
"When you came onto the screen,

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"I suddenly knew
there was another world out there."

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Kids' telly is far
from safe and cuddly.

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It's brave and adventurous.

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Kids' TV has always felt progressive
and yet surprising from the start.

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I want to... Get down, Val.
..not to do that.

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Can I tell you a naughty story?
Yeah, tell us.

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This is the surprising story
of Kids' TV.

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When I was five, I came
to Wimbledon Common with my mum,

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and I remember thinking,
"The Wombles live here."

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Maybe if I looked hard enough,
I'd catch a glimpse of Orinoco,

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Uncle Bulgaria and Tomsk.

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# Remember, remember

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# Remember, remember... #

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It's Tomsk, with a rather large
piece of rubbish.

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# Remember you're a Womble... #

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I mean, I knew little about
social responsibility,

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but I got that these creatures
cleared up litter.

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And they were really
ahead of their time

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because they're into recycling
and upcycling.

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They're very eco-friendly.

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We found this... this thing
dumped in the bushes.

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What is it, Tobermory?

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Yes, this is a television set.

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Ah, television.

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That was one of my earliest
memories of kids' TV,

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until I was at primary school.

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A BBC camera crew came to film
some of the kids,

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and I was on a programme
called You And Me. Fi, fo, fum!

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As a shy little Asian girl,

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I was so excited to be picked,

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even if they did change my name.

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For Fatima.

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Not content with being a photograph
of Fatima,

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some years later, in 1992,

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I put myself forward to ask
Neil Kinnock a question

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on behalf of the Green Party

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for the Newsround
General Election Campaign.

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How can you claim to be concerned
about the environment

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when you wish to keep nuclear
weapons?

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The Wombles' message about
the environment had stayed with me.

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That's the power that kids' TV has.

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It might not have been obvious,

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but if you look closer at the shows
we grew up with,

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there's way more going on.

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Politics in The Clangers...

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Now, you have heard the campaigns
of the two political parties.

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It is time to cast your votes.

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Industrial unrest in Bagpuss.

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Stop quarrelling at once.

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Mice not work! Mice strike!

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Oh, indeed!

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Social change in
Mary, Mungo & Midge.

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They live with Mary's mother
and father

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in this tall block of flats.

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They live right at the top.

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The often trailblazing ways
of kids' TV have been with us

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throughout our childhood,
from toddlers to teens.

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You're all right, man,
you're all right. I'm here.

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As a two-year-old, I was transfixed
by one awesome woman.

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Sorry, Mum.
It was Floella Benjamin.

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# Underneath
the spreading chestnut tree

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# Where I held you on my knee... #

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I definitely wasn't the only one.

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# 'Neath
the spreading chestnut tree. #

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In 1976, when grown-ups
were tuning into news

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of violent scenes
at the Notting Hill Carnival...

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As the toll of injury
and damage to property

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was totted up, the great debate
began about why it happened.

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..and there were only four
black players in the top flight

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of English football...

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Ready to play? What's the day?

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..a new face broadcast to millions
of children on BBC's Play School.

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And this is Floella.

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Hello.

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She was the first presenter
from a diverse background

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I can remember seeing on TV.

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Do you know what time of year it is

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when the leaves start to change
colour and fall from the trees?

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It's autumn.

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I started off my career in a bank

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because I wanted to be the first

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black woman bank manager.

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Nice. Mission Impossible,

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because back in those days,
black people weren't allowed

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to meet the customers.

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You had to work behind the scenes.

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Floella was one of thousands
of Windrush immigrants

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growing up in Britain in the 1960s

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and later had dreams of making it
as an actress.

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Your opinion? Yeah, that's right.

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No-one wants to know what you think.

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Oh, don't you?

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In fact, the first drama that I did,
I played a 16-year-old shoplifter.

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I'll break it off
your stupid black head!

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And I said to the producer,
"Why do black people

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"always have to play thieves or
prostitutes or bus drivers?

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"Why can't they be professionals
like, you know,

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"like lawyers and accountants?"

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And he said to me, "Well,
Floella, that's not realistic."

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This chimes with memories
of the TV I watched

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with my family growing up.

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My parents loved Mind Your Language,
as it had Asian characters in.

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Would you tell him
I would like a word with him?

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Well, certainly.

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Which word would you like?

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Even though immigrants like them
were pretty often

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the butt of the joke.

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Foreigners!

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I was told a lot of times,

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"Shut up or you won't work again."

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I realised I had to make a change...
Yeah.

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..and to get into a world
where you showed people,

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children especially,
that you can succeed,

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there is a future.

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I was born in the West Indies,
an island called Trinidad.

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That's me.

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And this song is about all
the things I remember oh so well.

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# Oh, island in the sun... #

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I grew up watching you.

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And I remember watching you
because you had the braids

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with the colourful beads.

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And I just loved that.

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It was like, you know,
you were so magical.

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In fact, the BBC at that time
had to send out instructions

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of how to plait your hair with beads

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because the children
all wanted to look like me.

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The Floella - people'd be going
to the hairdressers saying,

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"Can I have a Floella?"
"I want a Floella."

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The children are playing in here
with bricks and blocks. Oops!

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Do you feel that children's TV
was much more receptive and open

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than the adult TV of the time?

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Oh, very much so, because it
accepted a lot of differences.

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# Build it up, build it up

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# Build it high

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# Build it up, up, up
into the sky

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# Build it up, build it up,
build it high... #

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After more than 30 years
of working in kids' TV,

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a child who came as part
of Windrush is now a baroness.

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My Lords, it's an honour
and a privilege

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to address this House
for the first time.

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My family motto is,
"Who would have thought?"

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Because you never know where life's
twists and turns will take you.

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She now fights for children's rights
in the House of Lords,

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but to millions,
she'll always be Auntie Flo.

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I want your children not
to be afraid of, but to accept.

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A lot of people used to say to me,
"When you came on to the screen,

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"I suddenly knew
there was another world out there."

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Yeah, my parents, whenever there
was, like, an Asian face

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or an ethnic minority brown face
on TV, they'd be calling us

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to come round and see.

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And, you know, it's so important.

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Oh, very much so.

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Through the...

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..square window.

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Thanks to Floella and her fellow
Play School host, Derek Griffiths...

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# I wish I could warble
like my sister Kate. #

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..and their predecessor,
Paul Danquah, in the '60s...

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Shall we look through
our round window?

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..millions of children started
seeing themselves on screen

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for the first time.

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It makes you wonder, though,

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how much does toddler TV
actually influence us?

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Well, to find out,
what we need to do

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is get inside the mind
of a two-year-old.

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Here at Birkbeck Baby Lab
in London,

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they're examining the role TV plays
in those formative years.

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It's a whole science in itself.

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I'm just going to start
the computer up.

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Much of today's toddler TV
is created with speech therapists

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and psychologists.

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Early examples
of this were Teletubbies

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and In The Night Garden.

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One! Two. Two! Three. Three!

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Hello. Hi. Nice to meet you.
Welcome to the baby lab.

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So the families come into here.

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We have cameras which are
tracking the children's gaze.

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Claire Essex is using eye-tracking
technology

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to analyse Kya's
understanding and concentration.

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This is Kya's gaze
as she's watching it.

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Basically,
by looking at the blocks,

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you can tell how engaged they are.

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Avi's mum has brought him to the lab
to watch his favourite programme.

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Teletubbies! Time for Teletubbies!

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# Tinky Winky
Tinky Winky! #

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Teletubbies first broadcast in 1997

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and it became an instant hit
with toddlers.

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Dipsy and Laa-Laa and Po.

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But not with all parents
and educators.

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Tinky Winky, Dipsy,
Laa-Laa and Po

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have taken the country by storm.

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Four British stars had their debut
on American television last night.

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Their arrival is being compared
to Beatlemania.

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Oh, dear!

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Despite being underpinned
by science,

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adults found it weird, creepy,

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and thought their kids were being
taught to speak gobbledygook.

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Uh-oh!

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Professor Tim Smith has studied
the effects of Teletubbies.

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There was that whole hoo-ha
about Teletubbies saying, "Uh-oh."

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Is that bad for children?

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People may look at it and think
it's just so weird.

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It's so radically different
to adult TV,

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but they're being sensitive

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to sound forms and they're kind of
like the real origins of language.

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And that's what was reflected
in the show.

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They were trying to get the kids to,
in a non-language-based way,

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get used to sounds
and their associations

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with certain characters.

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Time for Tubby bye-bye.

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Oh! No...

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They have figured out what works,

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what gets the right kind
of attention from the kids.

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So the power of TV on young minds
has now been proved by science.

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But the older the kids get,
the tougher they are to please.

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Jackanory and Play School,
do you like them?

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00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,800
No. Why don't you like Play School?
Because it's so babyish.

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TV for schoolkids was born
in the '40s and grew up in the '50s.

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You might as well have a guess.

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00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,920
Sugar Plum Fairy. No!

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Back then,
it was on its best behaviour.

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Hello, everyone.

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I'm Jennifer Gay, one of
the children's announcers.

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There was just one channel.

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But then the BBC came
under fierce competition

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from a new rival in 1955 - ITV.

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Brash and confident,
the impact was immediate.

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Kids abandoned the BBC

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for more entertaining telly

248
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,280
on the other side.

249
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,520
# Robin Hood, Robin Hood
riding through the glen. #

250
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,640
ITV came up with instant hits
like Robin Hood.

251
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,600
And later, Torchy.

252
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,320
Put your curlers in
and you'll have frizzy hair

253
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,640
in the morning. Woof!

254
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,640
And the BBC had to take
a long, hard look at itself.

255
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,240
Crackerjack!

256
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,120
In response, they created
a wave of new programming

257
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,640
like Animal Magic.

258
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:01,920
See what I mean?

259
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,480
Gosh, I see what you mean.

260
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,960
Well, I do.

261
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,400
And a favourite that's still on
to this very day.

262
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,240
Blue Peter is the longest-running
kids' show in the UK.

263
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,320
It was also the show that gave me
my break in the '90s.

264
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,120
Hi. Hello. Nice to meet you.

265
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,560
I'll just... I'll just...

266
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,720
Don't be offended by that.
There you go.

267
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,000
I'm in!

268
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,400
First broadcast in 1958,

269
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,400
it now goes live at five
on a Friday from Salford.

270
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,000
Let's have a little wander.

271
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,720
It's been updated since my day,
but still remains pretty familiar.

272
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,840
The main components of the set
are still the same as ever.

273
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,520
Sort of the chat area,
the seat unit, the make area.

274
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,200
What are they making today?

275
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,640
Tie-dye, I think. Tie-dye T-shirts?

276
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040
That is retro. I love that.

277
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,760
Oh. Do I get a hello hug?

278
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,440
Oh, of course. And you're
wearing the gold badge!

279
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,760
I realised early on
I was following in the footsteps

280
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,040
of a long line of adventurous
Blue Peter women.

281
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,800
In fact,
it's an electric exercise horse.

282
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,640
Check in. Check out. Up. Down. Out!

283
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,880
Valerie Singleton joined
the programme in the early '60s.

284
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,240
I want to... Get down, Val.

285
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,760
Not to do that.

286
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,000
Her tenure spanned a decade
of change

287
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,160
which would see women
strike for equal pay...

288
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,320
How long are you prepared
to stay out on strike?

289
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,520
A year! A year, a year.

290
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,040
..and protest
against the Miss World contest.

291
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,960
For anyone watching, she was
fearless and unflappable.

292
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,520
When the spray had settled,

293
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,520
all I could see was the remains
of Val's boat. A terrifying crash.

294
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,000
And the boat just tipped over
and I went in.

295
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,160
We were rescued, though,
fortunately.

296
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,600
I'm very cold and rather wet.

297
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,920
I'm shaking a bit.

298
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,800
That's very nice. Thank you.

299
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,960
Yeah! Patissiere, don't you know?

300
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,160
Danish biscuits, too, my favourite.
Ooh la la!

301
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,520
Personally, I never said,
"Here's one I made earlier,"

302
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,440
so, you know... When Janet Ellis
joined in the 1980s,

303
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,120
the stunts
were just as adventurous.

304
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,200
The way the items were divvied up,

305
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,600
there was never a suggestion

306
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,680
that it was a girls'
or a boys' item ever. Ever.

307
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:33,960
Well, they deliberately,

308
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,480
actually, when I was doing it,

309
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,640
gave the boys the sort of things
that would have been a girls' item,

310
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:39,720
like Daniel the baby.

311
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,080
Yeah. Yeah.

312
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,880
There we are. This is Daniel.

313
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,080
He's the first baby
we've ever had on Blue Peter.

314
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,400
We're going to give him a bottle.

315
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,080
Probably just a little bit hungry.

316
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,640
There we are. Come.
Babies are pretty fragile.

317
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,800
They need to be handled
very carefully indeed.

318
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,400
And then Johnny did the cooking.

319
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,880
I start to cut the onion up...

320
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,840
Of course, he made such a mess of
it.

321
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,680
Dollop, dollop, doll...
Oh, that's a big dollop.

322
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,560
And while women couldn't join
the Marines until 2018,

323
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,320
the women of Blue Peter
were giving the training a go

324
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,800
from decades earlier.

325
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,080
That's it. Stand up.

326
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,920
Three, two, one - go!

327
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,720
Although I was a bit rubbish.

328
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,440
Don't let go next time!

329
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,040
Good effort. Well done.

330
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,400
Excellent. Argh!

331
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,480
Quick. I can't believe that
I've done it! Roll in the snow.

332
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,720
Oh. Aah!

333
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,680
Whatever the boys did,
the girls matched it.

334
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,280
Janet's assignment with the RAF
made her a record-breaker.

335
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,480
She became the first British woman

336
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,360
to achieve a 90-second
free fall parachute jump...

337
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,520
..despite a few little setbacks.

338
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,160
Yeah. Oh, look, here I am, having
broken my little pelvis in hospital.

339
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,240
That was on jump 23.

340
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,120
I went on and did the high altitude
jump that John Noakes had done

341
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:10,840
for 25,000 feet.

342
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,840
And I finished on 35.
Oh, my gosh,

343
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,640
you did an awful lot of damage
to yourself. I did.

344
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,960
On air for 64 years
and still going strong,

345
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,400
what Blue Peter believes
is that you have to see it to be it.

346
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,600
Now you meet people and they say,

347
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,000
"I'm a hat designer
because of Blue Peter

348
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,040
"or I'm an artist because of it,
or a carpenter."

349
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,800
Yes, well, that's the thing. It's
what we encouraged people to do.

350
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,840
And for me, that's the legacy
of Blue Peter. Yeah.

351
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,400
The amount of people that come
and say that

352
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,360
is still quite astounding. Yeah.

353
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,640
From its earliest days,
kids' TV challenged convention,

354
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,760
even attempting stuff that
grown-up telly hadn't tried yet,

355
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,240
like when it came
to making programmes

356
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,720
for deaf and hard of hearing
viewers.

357
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,200
Hello.

358
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,480
My name is Cyril Fry.

359
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,720
Earlier attempts like this series,
which debuted in the 1950s,

360
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,680
didn't always hit the mark.

361
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,800
I'm going to tell you a story.

362
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,920
I can't imagine why.

363
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,560
But it blazed a trail
for something ground-breaking.

364
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,760
One day, two student animators
got a phone call from the BBC,

365
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,680
who were interested in using
their work

366
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,120
in the long-running show Vision On.

367
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,800
We now know them as Aardman
Animations,

368
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,840
famous for hits like
Wallace & Gromit and Chicken Run...

369
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,000
Chicken pies?!

370
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,040
Ladies, please.

371
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,000
..and a little creature made
of modelling clay called Morph.

372
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,640
I've made him thousands of times,
I think.

373
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,480
He is just made of plasticine.

374
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,320
It's just solid plasticine.

375
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,720
There's no special effects.

376
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,160
Morph was actually
a breakthrough character.

377
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,800
But before the success of Morph,
the boys learnt their craft

378
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,520
through Vision On.

379
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,960
And Vision On
was this extraordinary programme.

380
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,760
It was designed for children
who were deaf and hard of hearing.

381
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,640
It was a very interesting collection
of people that they had assembled.

382
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,720
Tony Hart doing his drawings...

383
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,200
..and a couple
of different mime artists.

384
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,040
There was... Sylvester McCoy
did it for a while.

385
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,000
Sylvester!

386
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,840
And a guy called Wilf Lunn,
who made machines.

387
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,040
And Pat Kissel, who was also
an artist and did the signing.

388
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,360
And that's the theme
for today's programme.

389
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,720
Sign language was a key part
of Vision On from the outset.

390
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,440
Hello. The theme of
today's programme is...

391
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,720
The deal was always that what we did
would have to be silent.

392
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,160
That's how we got started.

393
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,160
A predecessor to Morph appeared
in Vision On,

394
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,720
although with
a slightly larger nose.

395
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,720
And I call this Morph because it's
an amorphous lump of clay

396
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,920
and more
fuss and bother than any other clay.

397
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,120
Morph himself debuted on Take Hart
in 1977

398
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:19,080
and eventually went on
to star in his own series.

399
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,160
It was pushing boundaries,

400
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,560
the discipline of it being silent
and not using words.

401
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,920
I mean, for us personally,
that was a great learning place.

402
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,760
Dave and I never were taught
formally about animation at all.

403
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,240
We'd just learnt
from good old Vision On.

404
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,360
One unexpected success
of Vision On was the gallery.

405
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,720
Kids of all ages would submit
their pieces of art

406
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,960
in the hope that they would be
featured on screen.

407
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600
Thank you for sending us
your paintings.

408
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,600
This was an early instance
of audience interaction,

409
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,880
which was becoming
a major feature of kids' TV.

410
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,680
There is a prize
for all those we show.

411
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,720
While Vision On asked for our art,

412
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,640
Blue Peter's audience interaction
went one step further.

413
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,080
Collect this, bake this, make
this... Marvellous news.

414
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,240
Our totaliser's flashing away

415
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,960
at the 400 medi-bike stage.

416
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,600
So there we have our launch site.

417
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,000
Next up - the island landscape.

418
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,080
Something like this.

419
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,120
This is the one I had in the airing
cupboard for two days.

420
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,560
Tracey Island!

421
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,600
Oh, I remember it so well.

422
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,480
But in 1973, one series not only
showed the audience

423
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,800
how to make stuff, but actually
recruited them to do it on screen.

424
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,720
# Why don't you
Why don't you... #

425
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,120
Why Don't You? gave kids a voice,
and they took control.

426
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,840
We've been making up some disco gear
from ideas that you've sent us.

427
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,840
There's this belt I made up
from an idea sent in

428
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,040
by Paula Flatman and Samantha Figg
in East London.

429
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,160
They made it out of sweetie papers.

430
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,480
Have you got the answer
to the puzzle yet?

431
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,600
No. There it is.

432
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,480
Oh...

433
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:19,960
Long before YouTube and TikTok,

434
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,680
it was a different kind of
user-generated content,

435
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,960
though arguably a bit more low-tech.

436
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,000
We've been absolutely flooded
with letters. We won!

437
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,640
Yay!

438
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,680
The series broadcasts
from different parts of the UK

439
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,400
with local presenters
and diverse accents.

440
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,560
It's a recipe for sweet fried eggs.

441
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,640
And the funny thing is,

442
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,240
it's got nothing at all
to do with eggs, right?

443
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,880
In 1981,

444
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,520
Why Don't You? broadcast
from an area

445
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,600
that often resembled a war zone.

446
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,800
Alternative Ulster
by Stiff Little Fingers

447
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,840
Belfast was in the midst
of the Troubles,

448
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,040
with the Army on the street
and frequent bomb threats,

449
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,040
when a group of fresh-faced
youngsters were chosen

450
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,200
to front the show.
I'm going to be showing you

451
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,640
how to make
this really trendy jewellery.

452
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,560
This was a region
typically seen on adult TV

453
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,520
through a lens of violence.

454
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,840
The Belfast gang returned
over the years.

455
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,880
And I've come here to meet
Jenny and Emma, two of the gang

456
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,720
from the mid-'80s who
filmed in a disused railway station.

457
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,320
Just my luck, I always seem
to fall off in this game.

458
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,880
So that's Emma there.

459
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,160
Oh, yeah!

460
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,360
That's me beside her in one of my
outfits that my mother bought me.

461
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,920
You know, one of the... Very smart.
Yeah, nice.

462
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,120
I would like to point out

463
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,600
that my mother would never
have let me go out in that outfit

464
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,120
because it would have got wrecked.

465
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,400
It would have been covered in dirt.
Yeah, it's so clean!

466
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,400
That's it today. I'm starving.

467
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,560
Sausage rolls. They're great.
There's not many ingredients.

468
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,120
Have a pencil and paper ready
to write them down.

469
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,200
Sausage rolls! I remember that.

470
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,760
Sausage rolls. I'd be like...

471
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,120
He used to make
the most rubbish things.

472
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,440
It's a really great way
to impress your friends.

473
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,080
And it's dead trendy.

474
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800
But, like, I used to always make
them at home before I got on to it.

475
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,560
I used to make them. Yeah.

476
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,600
Today we're going to make
pink splodge.

477
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,680
You have six plastic cups
all stuck together.

478
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,920
I know I look a right plonker,

479
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,680
but I'm actually trying
to do something.

480
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840
I remember thinking they've got
such cool accents as well.

481
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,800
You know, that was the thing
that stood out for me

482
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,000
about Northern Ireland.

483
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,640
Over to you, Emma. Ross, I haven't
got everything I need yet,

484
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,920
so you go on ahead.
There were no Northern Irish voices

485
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,040
on national television, really,

486
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,640
from a positive perspective.
Any children could say,

487
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,800
"Oh, they seem really nice,
they're having fun.

488
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,800
"Maybe Northern Ireland's
not as scary a place

489
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,000
"as it's been made out."

490
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,680
How important do you think it was

491
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,720
that Why Don't You?
came from Belfast?

492
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,520
Really, really important.

493
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,520
Belfast was always known

494
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,960
across the world for violence,

495
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,680
for conflict, for murder,
for bombings.

496
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,280
People were terrified of
what Northern Ireland represented.

497
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,800
Just to normalise
young people in Belfast,

498
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,080
I would love to think that it
helped change the mindset

499
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,560
of children everywhere.

500
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,760
Bye!

501
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,600
Bye!

502
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,200
Anyone want a sausage roll?

503
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,600
Throughout the '70s,

504
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,000
kids' TV knew the power
this interactivity could have,

505
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,000
but it was on Saturday morning
TV where it was turbo-charged.

506
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,520
My Generation by The Who

507
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,960
# People try to put us down

508
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,680
# Talkin' 'bout my generation... #

509
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,920
By 1975, around half of all
households had a landline phone.

510
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,200
This meant tween kids who were
allowed to use it could now interact

511
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,560
on live TV.

512
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,600
In the mid '70s, the BBC
and ITV went head-to-head

513
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,440
for the Saturday morning crown.

514
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,840
And much like the Blue Peter versus
Magpie debate that preceded it,

515
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,680
when it came to
Saturday morning TV,

516
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,400
there was only one question -

517
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,360
were you Tiswas or
were you Swap Shop?

518
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,440
Hello, Anthony. Hello.
Hi. What can I do...?

519
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,080
I can remember trying to call
Swap Shop in the early '80s

520
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,560
and never being able to get
through

521
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,920
because the line
was constantly engaged.

522
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,440
Let's have a look at the board.

523
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,120
At number ten, Alison Scott.

524
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,680
But I really wanted
to swap my Yahtzee for KerPlunk.

525
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,160
Hello, Noel. Hello? Who's this?

526
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,200
You could even take part

527
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,240
when the roadshow
rocked up to your town.

528
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,480
Keith, where are you?

529
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,600
I'm in Cornwall.

530
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,840
In Pontypool.

531
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,960
I'm on the north-west coast
of Britain.

532
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,000
This morning,
I'm actually in London.

533
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,280
OK, Keith, could you just smile
one moment?

534
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,360
Yes. Just give me a...

535
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,200
But on ITV, there was Tiswas...

536
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,120
We're on! We're on. Good morning.

537
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,960
..where you could be
locked in a cage

538
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,160
or be flanned by
the Phantom Flan Flinger.

539
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,880
Houdi Elbow,
man of mystery, clairvoyant...

540
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,600
It hit screens in 1974
and was less scripted.

541
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,600
When I was young,
I watched Tiswas.

542
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,920
I always thought
Tiswas was much more anarchic.

543
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,080
We've just heard that a circus lorry
with a cargo of tigers

544
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,400
has just crashed into
the lions' den at Leicester Zoo.

545
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,800
Motorists are advised to avoid
the snarl-up.

546
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,080
Madness, really.

547
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,160
But kids love madness.

548
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,800
I wasn't much of a Tiswas fan.
Oh, really? No.

549
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,040
Because I'd watched the first ever
Swap Shop with Noel... Right.

550
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,200
..and I thought, "Oh my God,
that's what I want to do."

551
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,240
All we've got is this mop here.

552
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,040
If you sort of have a look around...

553
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,360
Both shows took
kids behind the camera.

554
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:25,440
Strange, see, we've got Gary,
who's hiding away over there.

555
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,880
They were incredibly popular
and set a style

556
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,400
for Saturday morning
kids' shows that followed.

557
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,280
Anybody got
any more questions here?

558
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,600
Yeah. What's your question?

559
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,280
Hello. How many...?
In how many...? Whoops.

560
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,920
How many countries have
you released records in?

561
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Oh, all over the world.
All over the world.

562
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,200
Sarah Greene was drafted
in from Blue Peter to the chaotic,

563
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,360
unpredictable world
of Saturday Superstore.

564
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,880
OK, Eliot, what's your question?

565
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,760
I'd like to ask Five Star why
they're so BLEEP. Cut the BLEEP.

566
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,080
Thanks very much, Eliot.

567
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,760
Oh, Konnie, I love what you've done
with this room.

568
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,080
Do you like it? Yeah, and
the wallpaper and everything.

569
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Do you like my phone?
And I like the...

570
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Oh. Does it bring back memories?

571
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,040
It does a bit, yeah. If you'd like
to pick up your phones.

572
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,160
They were props,
but the child at home

573
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,800
got this immediate contact,

574
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,320
and there is some magic about that.

575
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,080
Who's on line four, please?
James Mullen.

576
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720
I give in. Why did the dinosaur
cross the road?

577
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Because there weren't chickens
in those days.

578
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,960
Brillo!

579
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,280
Who's on line one? Yeah.

580
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,480
Hello?

581
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,520
The Vodafone subscriber
you are calling is not available.

582
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Please dial later.

583
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,440
Saturday morning telly
could make household names

584
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,880
of those presenters who were able
to cope with hours of mayhem.

585
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,400
It's getting faster!

586
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,760
Phillip Schofield joined Sarah
as presenter of Going Live! in 1987.

587
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,000
Spin. You all right?

588
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,720
Going into Saturday mornings,

589
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,920
I mean, I was nervous.

590
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,560
I didn't sleep the night before.

591
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,160
OK. OK. All right.
Run VT. Run VT.

592
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,080
Five, four... Right, so,
a little bit of this. In three...

593
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,760
In 1996, a 25-year-old Zoe Ball took
over the reins

594
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,160
of Saturday morning's
three-hour marathon Live & Kicking.

595
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,360
Yes! Hello!

596
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,960
Good morning and hello.
I'm Zoe Ball.

597
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,360
And I'm Jamie Theakston.

598
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,560
Is that William?

599
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,760
No, it's Katie.

600
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Oh, hello, Katie.
Sorry, is William there, please?

601
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,040
No, I was on last week.

602
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,840
Oh, we have got the wrong number.
Fantastic!

603
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,000
What was it like having
all that viewer interaction?

604
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040
I loved it, because the kids
watching feel connected... Yes.

605
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,320
..included, feel part of the fun,

606
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,920
feel listened to
and are laughing with you

607
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,760
rather than sitting outside
watching this kind of party go on.

608
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,080
Everyone wants to be invited
to the party.

609
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,160
Yes! But kids are so unpredictable
as well

610
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,800
and they'd just tell
you how they really felt. Yeah.

611
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,160
And it's like you could get
a million comedy writers

612
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960
and you wouldn't get stuff...
You'd never get gold like that.

613
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,000
Yeah. You'd never know where it
would go.

614
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,280
What would be your most embarrassing
moment that you would like to erase?

615
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,320
Wow.

616
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,440
Whoa.

617
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Right, and then I... aargh!

618
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,480
No script.
No script at all? No.

619
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,840
Follow us if you can. Come on.

620
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,480
This is live. This is unscripted.

621
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,240
Be careful.

622
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,800
It felt exciting because
you could dip behind the scenes.

623
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,440
If something goes wrong,

624
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,680
put a camera on it. Yes.

625
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,640
Your cameramen are getting better
at walking backwards, aren't they?

626
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,320
New ideas, freedom and adventure.

627
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,760
Hello, Anna. Send your question
to the Prime Minister.

628
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,280
Hello? Hello, Alison.

629
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,600
Hello.
In the event of a nuclear war,

630
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,640
where will you be?

631
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,600
Oh, my goodness me.

632
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,640
It seemed nothing was off limits.

633
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,360
Politicians were regularly
grilled by kids.

634
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,600
I should be in London.

635
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,960
Oh, don't you have your own bunker
or something?

636
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,000
But I mean, obviously,
there are boundaries, but...

637
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,480
But as far as we were concerned,

638
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,040
we just wanted to make it open
to anyone,

639
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,520
which is why we had, you know,

640
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,520
sort of Margaret Thatcher
and Mo Mowlam

641
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,600
and, you know, all sorts of people
would come on.

642
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,080
One MP who publicly suggested

643
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,720
kids' TV had a negative impact
on its viewers agreed to take part

644
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,760
in the press conference segment
on Going Live!

645
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,800
and face his fiercest critics.

646
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,440
How much children's television
would you watch yourself?

647
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,120
I've started to watch
a little of it.

648
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,600
I've never seen anyone so terrified
in their lives.

649
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Let's go to the phones.

650
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,680
There's things like Going Live!
which give people a chance

651
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,320
to argue with people,
well, with people like you on.

652
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,640
Well, that's what you're doing,
very successfully. Yeah...

653
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,160
The live interaction on
Saturday morning TV

654
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,760
could change lives,

655
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,280
demonstrated by Growing Pains.

656
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,080
You were talking about the subject
of AIDS.

657
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,320
Now, we've had a few letters
from people

658
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,080
who are still a bit
confused about the whole thing.

659
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Answering letters about
very serious, very serious problems,

660
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,520
everything from
eating disorders to abuse.

661
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,760
"My dad has been abusing me
since I was seven and a half

662
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,280
"and it's got worse as time
has gone on.

663
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,520
"I try so hard not to make him angry
when he's in my room,

664
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,840
"but he wants to be angry and
it makes things better for him."

665
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,640
And at times it became...

666
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,840
..heartbreakingly serious.

667
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,000
And those calls
would have changed children's lives.

668
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,200
And we got a letter.

669
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,640
She's living with relatives.

670
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,800
"After writing the letter
and hearing what you said,

671
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,520
"I could not stand it going on
any more and I told my gran."

672
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,560
That was a real achievement,
managing to do that. Yeah.

673
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,760
"So I'm living with my gran
and grandad now

674
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,000
"and I'm happier than I have
ever been in my whole life."

675
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,640
It's kind of amazing for, you know,
Saturday morning TV, essentially.

676
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,720
Yeah, that was because of a group
of people

677
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,480
who were prepared
to take those risks.

678
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,920
Thank you very much
for your letters, your phone calls,

679
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,400
your All About Mes, your ideas.

680
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,320
Broadcast bosses realised the power
of this unscripted interaction

681
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,960
and it was soon seen
in many adult telly shows

682
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,320
like The Big Breakfast.

683
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,240
..of the day is what... Ah!

684
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Mate, all right, that's enough.

685
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,640
The mayhem of Saturday
morning kids' TV

686
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,720
would continue for years to come,

687
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,080
kind of chaotically entertaining
while educating.

688
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,400
And meanwhile, running parallel
on a weekday

689
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,560
was a show doing much
the same thing.

690
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,720
This show was grabbing kids'
attention

691
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,720
and doing stuff that even your
most favourite teacher

692
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,880
probably wouldn't attempt.

693
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,560
In the late '70s, only
around 14% of school leavers

694
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,600
went on to higher education.

695
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,320
At the same time, kids' TV tried
to make education more accessible

696
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,760
to everyone and help with tricky
subjects like maths and science.

697
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,640
One entertainer found a way to teach
the basics

698
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,600
that made everyone
sit up and listen. Oh!

699
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,840
As long as the system took...

700
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,480
Oh!

701
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Ah! Ah!

702
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,360
When I was
a kid, everyone spoke like that.

703
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,120
You see, everyone at the BBC,

704
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,760
it was all terribly London,
you know.

705
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,360
So did I ever think
I'd be in television?

706
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,320
Not in a million years.

707
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:20,720
It was a different world.

708
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:23,480
They recruited me
to get a northern accent.

709
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,160
Hello. Thank you and welcome to
Think Of A Number.

710
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,360
Now... Before he started in TV,

711
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,280
Johnny Ball had been
a stand-up comedian.

712
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,880
So, when I was doing the clubs,

713
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,880
"Hello, still doing that programme,
John?"

714
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,440
I'd go, "Yeah. Still watching it?
Right..."

715
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,840
So he had a unique way
of selling his subject.

716
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,040
You have fun with it first and
then you slowly turn the screw,

717
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,600
so by the end of the programme,

718
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,320
you're saying educationally
sound things, you know.

719
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,640
Fire! Ha-ha!

720
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,040
We did a programme on fire, right?

721
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,520
We think again.

722
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,080
I am the devil and I'm coming
out of a fiery hellfire.

723
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,920
Fire, the element of the devil!
Fire, that all men fear the most!

724
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,520
Fire, with its licking flame

725
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,720
that can roast, or bake, or boil,
or...

726
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,720
We were going to talk about a priest
who was burnt at the stake

727
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:15,480
because of their religion...

728
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,160
The plastic on the back of my neck
was burning,

729
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,600
because it was so, so hot.

730
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,560
Fire, that can burn you...

731
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,200
I came out...

732
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,280
..frazzle. Oh, help!

733
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,160
The tail
was definitely on fire. Oh!

734
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,680
That is mad! With health
and safety nowadays,

735
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,120
your programme wouldn't get made.

736
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,000
His series were runaway successes.

737
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,840
He was the maths and science
teacher we all really wanted.

738
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,400
You didn't expect that, did you?

739
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,000
We started getting letters.

740
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,240
"I'm going to be a scientist
because of you."

741
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,000
Because you will have changed
people's life trajectories.

742
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,800
One day, somebody's going to come
up to me and say,

743
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,200
"I became a scientist because of
you."

744
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:02,840
And they're going to knee me in the
groin

745
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,520
because I've sent them the wrong
way!

746
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,720
While Johnny Ball tried to make
difficult subject matter

747
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,640
accessible through entertainment,

748
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,280
some kids' TV drama producers

749
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,240
were trying to do much the same
thing

750
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:26,640
in reflecting an ever-changing
society.

751
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,960
There were still period classics
like The Secret Garden

752
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560
and fantasy dramas like
The Box Of Delights.

753
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,480
But there was also something
more raw and more real.

754
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,320
After the Divorce Act of 1969,
families became much more complex

755
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,480
and kids' drama was swiftly
on the case.

756
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,720
One feels so sorry for the child,
though. Such a grubby little thing.

757
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,280
From Kizzy, where an orphan
traveller child is threatened

758
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:00,840
with being taken into care...

759
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,680
Can I live with you?

760
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,680
They won't let you stay here either.

761
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,400
..to Break In The Sun, where a young
girl runs away

762
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,080
from her violent stepfather.

763
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,400
I hate him, he's a swine.

764
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,280
Always hitting me - sometimes for
nothing.

765
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,520
And The Cuckoo Sister, where a baby
snatched from her pram

766
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,080
returns to her birth mother.

767
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Oh, my dear.

768
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,760
Mum said to wait for an answer.

769
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,480
Here was a grittier world.

770
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,640
The kitchen stank of wet dog!

771
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,360
And I never want to see you ever
again.

772
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,960
Then Tracy Beaker hit our
screens in 2002.

773
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,480
I'm in Newcastle to meet actor
Dani Harmer,

774
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,280
who's grown up playing Tracy,

775
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,320
a young girl who spent her childhood
in a care home.

776
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,920
First ever series.
I was 12 years old.

777
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,160
12 years old! Oh, my God.

778
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,480
Now I'm 33.

779
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,480
That was two decades ago.
Yeah, let's have a nosey.

780
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,080
We're on the set of the 10th series
of The Dumping Ground,

781
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,840
a spin-off based on the home Tracy
used to live in.

782
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,320
The first house that we ever used
was actually based

783
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,120
on a real care
home that someone had gone to visit.

784
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,520
And each room, the kid decorated
themselves.

785
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,320
So you could almost see
their personality

786
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,560
as you walked
into the room, which I love.

787
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,320
Back upstairs.

788
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,040
Not till I've given that Tracy
Beaker a good slap!

789
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,160
Upstairs! Leave it, Justine!

790
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,520
Not everyone felt it was appropriate
teatime viewing.

791
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,440
There was a lot of controversy
actually, as well, wasn't there?

792
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,360
Because, you know, things
like, "Bog off!" Bog off!

793
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,320
And I still get it now where parents
come up to me and say, like,

794
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,120
"I banned my child
from watching your programme."

795
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,440
I'm like, OK.

796
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,200
..truth telling. You think
you know everything, don't you?

797
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,080
Why is everyone asking for the truth
if they can't take it?

798
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,120
They kind of didn't want their kids
copying her behaviour.

799
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,200
Most people saw her as just
a naughty kid

800
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,240
rather than looking
into why she was like that,

801
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,080
why she reacted that way.

802
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,840
Aren't you coming out? In a minute.

803
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,440
I don't see why she made a fuss.

804
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,080
He's nothing special.

805
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,520
I'd rather have a dad like that,
that visited,

806
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,120
than none at all.

807
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,520
Are you crying?

808
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,760
Bog off,

809
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,480
Tracy Beaker never cries.

810
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,200
It's the Dumping Ground dust,

811
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,520
gets my hay fever.

812
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,000
During this time, there's
less and less nuclear families.

813
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,520
Family structures
can be complicated.

814
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,840
Lots of people have, you know,
an absent parent or no parents.

815
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,840
How important do you think
it is for kids to see themselves

816
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,080
reflected in what they watch?

817
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,960
I have met loads of care-experienced
people that thank me

818
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,200
because they found that being in
care

819
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,160
was the best situation for them,

820
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,360
and it took them
out of a very horrible situation.

821
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Feeling better?

822
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,920
The Beaker-verse has been on TV
for over 20 years,

823
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,400
with a grown-up Tracy coming back
onto our screens

824
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,160
in Tracy Beaker Returns.

825
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,680
They wanted Tracy to come
back as a care worker.

826
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,000
See how she kind of manages
in a position of authority,

827
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,600
which she absolutely hated
when she was younger.

828
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,840
She would hate anyone
telling her what to do.

829
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,160
Do you know my mum, Tracy Beaker?

830
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,000
Morning!

831
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,800
You'll know her, if you live
on the Duke estate.

832
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,480
Dani then portrayed Tracy
as a single parent.

833
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,960
This series didn't sugar-coat
the problems of the world.

834
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,000
You can see that they are actually
struggling, trying to pay bills,

835
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,800
trying to keep a roof over
everyone's head.

836
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,200
And we don't back away from that.

837
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,600
It's not all shiny and happy.

838
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,360
Shows like these were tackling
real-world issues,

839
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,960
issues that some
felt were better left well alone.

840
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,920
And as the viewers got older,
the issues got bigger.

841
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,800
And as the issues got bigger,

842
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,720
they got that bit
much more controversial.

843
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:04,640
Teenage Kicks
by The Undertones

844
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,800
From Children's Ward, that explored
attitudes to HIV and AIDS

845
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,680
in the early '90s...

846
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,320
He's got HIV!

847
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,800
I'm not having you in here with
that.

848
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,240
I want you home!

849
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,520
Dad, it's safe.
The nurses are happy.

850
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,520
They know what they're doing.
Darren...

851
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,680
..to Press Gang, that didn't shy
away

852
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,160
from issues like suicide in young
people.

853
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,880
Blaming yourself is stupid, Lynda,
really stupid.

854
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,600
It's a fact of life.
You can't confess to a suicide.

855
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,640
Creatives at the heart of these
shows

856
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,520
went on to write ground-breaking
dramas like Sherlock...

857
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:48,960
Sherlock!

858
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,560
..and It's A Sin.

859
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,440
Their radical edge was sharpened
making teen TV,

860
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,920
but one show got into trouble with
politicians and parents.

861
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,800
I think it's a load of rubbish,
to be quite honest.

862
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,920
I don't like the unruly children.

863
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,400
It shocks people because the
children are all, "Cor, blimey!"

864
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,600
And it's all comprehensive
and everything.

865
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,200
The language is terrible
in it,

866
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,920
the way that the children talk to
the teachers

867
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,880
and they smack each other,
the children.

868
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,680
This is the actual...
This is the Holy Grail.

869
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,000
Yeah, that's the, that's the very
one. Wow.

870
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,160
Phil Redmond was an ambitious
young writer

871
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,440
who had an idea
about a comprehensive school.

872
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,600
The first episode was just
about first day at school,

873
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,560
and introducing the characters.

874
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,040
All present and correct, ready
to start their new lives

875
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,200
at Grange Hill.

876
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,200
Let's hope it's a pleasant
experience for them.

877
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,240
Oh, I'm sure it will be, Mrs Munroe,
one big happy family...

878
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:53,800
"As he says this, Tricia leans over
forward

879
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,680
"and belts Tucker over
the head with her rule..."

880
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,400
Grange Hill burst
onto our screens

881
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,800
on 8th February 1978,

882
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,040
firmly aimed at the teen market.

883
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,200
Two-faced little bitch!

884
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:19,960
It was all about doing things
that you shouldn't really be doing -

885
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,160
smoking behind the bike sheds...

886
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,760
Things like student militancy,
periods and bras...

887
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,160
And we're talking late '70s. It
really was kind of ahead of its time

888
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,080
because I can't think
of any other children's programmes

889
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,360
that did that back then.

890
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,960
Do you know what my dad says about
this lot?

891
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,240
They should all be sent
back to where they belong.

892
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:41,520
Yeah, in the jungle. Then your dad
should go where he belongs -

893
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:42,920
a loony bin.

894
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,040
It just went boom with the
controversy.

895
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,400
And that's when all the questions
started to be asked

896
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,320
from teachers' unions
through to politicians.

897
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,520
"Dear Sir, I am surprised and
annoyed that the BBC continue

898
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,640
"to screen Grange Hill.

899
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,160
"To illustrate acts of thieving,
bullying, smoking,

900
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,680
"and often stupidities for young
minds, is to promote them."

901
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,360
I would strongly disagree
with that view

902
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,080
because that's the classic letter
that you have to be wary of,

903
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,160
because they're the guys
who don't want you to tell the truth

904
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,960
about society, because policymakers
do not want you

905
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,360
to actually tell the truth, you
know.

906
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,280
They don't want to hear it
because it outlines their failings.

907
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,080
And I remember this question
in the House,

908
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,120
someone asking the Home Secretary,

909
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,200
"Is this really what the BBC
Licence Fee should be funding?"

910
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,800
You know, that kind of thing.

911
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,320
Zammo, are you all right?

912
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,840
One of the most controversial
storylines

913
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,600
was Zammo's descent into drug abuse.

914
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,240
This bravely put the issue of heroin
addiction

915
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,840
at the centre
of a popular children's drama.

916
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,200
One of the big issues in society

917
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,120
is that given the right social
circumstances,

918
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,120
almost anybody
can fall into that kind of abyss.

919
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,200
And so we had to try and explain
how Zammo would get to that low ebb,

920
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,080
to try and find an escape
route to go into that kind of thing.

921
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,400
Then we had the second series,
which shows Zammo's rehabilitation,

922
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,880
You mustn't worry. I'm fine.

923
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,600
I like it here.
I like the gardening.

924
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,720
The very people who were against,
at the beginning, all the teaching,

925
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,880
the educationalists, the health
experts,

926
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,400
were then coming this programme
saying, actually,

927
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,640
"You're reaching
the audience we can't reach."

928
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,440
And that's cemented in me the belief
I've always had

929
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,720
that if you do
dramas about social issues,

930
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:27,800
you have to offer a way out.

931
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,120
Yeah, absolutely.

932
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,160
And it was also something that
reached out to teen audiences

933
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,120
because you had, like,
the Just Say No single.

934
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,240
That was - it was huge.

935
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,440
# Just say no... #

936
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:40,840
Yeah. Go on.

937
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,760
# Just say no

938
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,040
# Just say no

939
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,080
# Just say no

940
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,680
# Just say no

941
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,120
# Just say no

942
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:51,280
# Just say no

943
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,520
# Just say no... #

944
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,520
What would you say is the role
of kids' TV?

945
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,800
Kids' TV can be pure entertainment

946
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,840
or to actually help
people navigate society.

947
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,320
And you're not alone.

948
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,360
You know, everything you're going
through,

949
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,800
somebody else has been through and
somebody else will go through.

950
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,360
And I think that is a very, really
important role

951
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,920
that children's TV should do,

952
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,600
particularly on our public service
broadcasters.

953
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,920
But it wasn't just at home
that kids were watching TV.

954
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,720
BBC Television for schools was also
creating dramas

955
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:32,120
that often provoked debate in class.

956
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,480
Back in 1987, homosexual acts
between men under the age of 21

957
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,000
were still illegal.

958
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,360
A law was about to be passed

959
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,960
limiting the discussion
of homosexuality in schools.

960
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,040
It was pretty much a case
of "don't say gay".

961
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,760
Children who need to be taught
to respect traditional moral values

962
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,800
are being taught that they have
an inalienable right to be gay.

963
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,720
There was a storm of protests.

964
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,880
And I do apologise if you're
hearing quite a lot of noise

965
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,080
in the studio at the moment.

966
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,400
I'm afraid that we have rather
been invaded.

967
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,720
Led away, the women repeated their
protest.

968
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,760
We're protesting about
rights for lesbian and gay people.

969
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,360
And thrust into the middle
of this debate

970
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,560
were writer Leslie Stewart and
director Roger Tonge.

971
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,040
We filmed here in '86.

972
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,320
Yeah.

973
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,040
Beware!

974
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,880
Dangerous deviants!

975
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,600
# Shall we dance?

976
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,040
# Shall we still be... #

977
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,080
Do you remember this one? Yeah,
right. Yes, I do. I just love it.

978
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Describing it as a sex film.

979
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,920
Come on.

980
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,000
Come on. Come on, then.

981
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,960
Two Of Us was one of the first
British dramas

982
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,560
to put young gay lives in the
spotlight

983
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,560
More than a decade before
Queer As Folk in 1999.

984
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:09,840
Let's write a love story that
happens to be between two boys.

985
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,320
Matthew!

986
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,080
If you were 16, it was illegal.

987
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Quite so.

988
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,960
And that's why it was very dangerous
making it.

989
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,120
And that's why it really got a lot
of opposition to us making it.

990
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,080
The Government actually brought out
new guidelines

991
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,840
and the newspapers
said, "Gay Lessons Ban At Last."

992
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,520
Do you remember that? Yeah.

993
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,880
At a time of increased homophobia,

994
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,440
this kiss was cut
from the original drama.

995
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,600
I love you.

996
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,800
"Disgusting".

997
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,040
But amidst the tabloid headlines,
young people's lives were changed.

998
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,840
We had enormous number of letters
from youngsters.

999
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,840
We spent, what was it, Ealing,
in your office, reading letters

1000
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,800
and then trying not to cry?

1001
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,160
Yes.

1002
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,280
Remember the letter from a boy?

1003
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,560
"I'm 19 years old.

1004
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,920
I've tried to commit suicide
three times.

1005
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,960
"Now I've seen your film,
and I feel clean about myself

1006
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,480
"for the first time."

1007
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,960
Eventually, on February 2nd,
1990, Two Of Us was broadcast

1008
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,880
with the kiss restored.

1009
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,280
I love you.

1010
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,200
We were highlighting the
difficulties of being a young gay

1011
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,200
when the law is so horribly
oppressive

1012
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,760
and when the law promotes homophobia

1013
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,480
and makes life so terribly
difficult.

1014
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:28,520
Yes.

1015
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:33,200
While Two Of Us was a standout
film in the 1980s,

1016
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,080
Kids' TV is still treading carefully

1017
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,760
when it comes to representing
the LGBTQ+ community.

1018
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,320
Producers did venture into
this territory in 2014,

1019
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,120
with young
trans boy Leo telling his story.

1020
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:54,280
Gender, to me, is what you feel
inside, not what you were born with.

1021
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,040
The film won a BAFTA, amongst other
awards, when it was broadcast.

1022
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,160
However, this area, along
with how and when it's presented

1023
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,240
to young audiences, continues
to be debated.

1024
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,720
Today, online kids' content is more
accessible than ever before,

1025
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,200
24 hours a day, seven days a week.

1026
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,440
It can normalise and even celebrate
difference, or at least it tries to.

1027
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,200
And sometimes that change can be
driven by the kids themselves.

1028
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,160
Hello.
I'm just finishing off a picture.

1029
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,840
Can you see what it is?

1030
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,960
A young presenter named Cerrie
Burnell was given her big break

1031
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,920
as one of the faces of CBeebies
in 2009.

1032
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,880
I'm at the BBC studios in Salford
to hear how she found herself

1033
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,120
at the centre of a media storm.

1034
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,440
Come on, meet friends and discover
and do. Finding out things

1035
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:47,920
that are magic and new.

1036
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,080
Here on CBeebies, you can learn
through play.

1037
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600
So come and have fun every day.

1038
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,040
Let's have a look.

1039
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,280
Oh, my God.

1040
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,720
It's got that same really kind
of homely feel.

1041
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:02,360
The colours and the shapes
are big and bold.

1042
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,000
It's joyful as well.

1043
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,240
Does it bring back memories
of your time here?

1044
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:07,400
Yeah.

1045
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,760
I feel like I could just sit
down and do some birthdays...!

1046
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,280
Read some cards out, and a story and
then maybe introduce the show.

1047
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,240
Boing, boing.

1048
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:19,640
This is a happy little kangaroo.

1049
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,760
But somehow... Cerrie was a
favourite with her young audience

1050
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,800
and became an important public
figure,

1051
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,200
particularly for some living
with a disability.

1052
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,680
When you were growing up,
did you feel represented?

1053
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,120
No.

1054
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:38,400
I never saw anyone who even
vaguely looked like me.

1055
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,400
When I was growing up,

1056
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,120
I loved my little arm.

1057
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,200
I was very comfortable
with who I was.

1058
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,720
And looking back, you know,

1059
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:53,680
there was very little positive
portrayal that was authentic.

1060
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,520
And I think that was why

1061
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,360
there was a really huge, shocked
and a negative reaction

1062
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,160
because people have never
seen it before.

1063
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,880
Some parents complained
that a children's TV presenter

1064
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,560
is scaring their kids
because she has only one arm.

1065
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,960
Viewers' complaints
that the very sight of them

1066
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,400
is frightening the kiddies.

1067
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,440
The parents are worried
that their children might be scared

1068
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,320
when they watch her.

1069
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,080
Cerrie's presence on screen
provoked a reaction

1070
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,600
from a small but
vocal number of adult viewers.

1071
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,960
But she was ready for the fight.

1072
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,800
I think this just highlights
the kind of discrimination

1073
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,320
that disabled people face every
day in every walk of life.

1074
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,520
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.

1075
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,040
Simply the fact that, you know,
I'm on the telly

1076
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:37,680
has kind of brought this out.

1077
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,760
Can I just ask, did you have any
conversations behind the scenes

1078
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,000
in terms of the production teams
or whatever,

1079
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,800
about what to do about your arm?

1080
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,240
Was there ever a conversation
where someone said, you know,

1081
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,320
"What to do about Cerrie's arm?"
No. I mean, it sounds terrible...

1082
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,040
Were you expecting that reaction?

1083
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,600
If you grow up with a disability,
you are aware

1084
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,120
of how society perceives you.

1085
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,680
This is people not being comfortable
with disability, full stop,

1086
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,120
because you've not put enough
of it on telly.

1087
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,400
So let's change that, shall we?

1088
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,680
Do any of you know what you'd like
to be when you grow up?

1089
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,120
A footballer. A footballer?

1090
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,720
Play lots of games.

1091
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:18,280
That's what I get to do!

1092
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,680
So maybe you could be a children's
TV presenter.

1093
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,520
Perhaps next time
you're at the beach....

1094
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,760
Being able to see yourself
represented in a bright, sparkly,

1095
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:34,080
safe and nurturing and fun
environment is,

1096
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,000
is just uplifting.

1097
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,640
Blast-off!

1098
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,960
Fast forward 12 years,
and it's a different world.

1099
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,200
We're going through
a disco world.

1100
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,720
OK, here we go.

1101
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:47,680
George may be the first children's
TV presenter with Down's syndrome,

1102
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,040
but kids just love him
for his dance moves.

1103
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,920
..Through rock climbing.

1104
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,760
Yes, George... Copy my moves!

1105
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,000
OK, here we go.

1106
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,800
When I started working at CBeebies,

1107
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,000
no-one mentioned I had
Down's syndrome.

1108
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,280
which is really, really good,
because they just see me as George,

1109
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,640
and that's really, really important.

1110
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:16,040
This space rocket... George is
a role model for today's kids,

1111
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,440
but he's also been shaped
by what's gone before.

1112
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,960
It's a play bus!

1113
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,000
One small spider...

1114
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,400
..with wriggly toes,

1115
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,000
wriggled
and danced up to my nose.

1116
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,200
As part
of pre-school favourite Playbus,

1117
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,600
Dave Benson Phillips became
the new face of a form of language

1118
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,480
aimed at people who struggle
to communicate through speech.

1119
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,080
They said, "Right, you're going
to learn Makaton."

1120
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,600
So Makaton is a sort of form
of sign language.

1121
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,120
Yes. So this lady called Margaret
Walker invented Makaton,

1122
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,760
and she had this amazing bunch
of people who were helping me

1123
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,240
to learn signs for poems.

1124
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,120
The wheels on the bus go
round and round.

1125
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,080
I didn't realise and I don't think
they did either

1126
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,960
how big this thing
was going to become.

1127
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,400
We had children with special needs
who'd watched the show,

1128
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,040
nurseries and playgroups, and they
would all be looking for this bit,

1129
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,080
this poem, this rhyme.

1130
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,720
Pet animals...

1131
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:23,560
Makaton would become a central
part of communicating

1132
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,760
for one of kids' TV's biggest stars,
Mr Tumble.

1133
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,160
What's that, Mr Tumble?

1134
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,640
A tortoise.

1135
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,120
Taught in nurseries

1136
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,280
across the UK, there are now
over 100,000 users

1137
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,760
whose communication
has been massively helped.

1138
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,640
One of those Makaton
users was George Webster.

1139
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,960
I was inspired by Mr Tumble, he was
my hero when I was growing up.

1140
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,320
Soup!

1141
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,800
I used Makaton before I spoke
with words.

1142
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,360
My favourite word was "more".
"More, more, more food!"

1143
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,840
It's really, really important
for children to have role models.

1144
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,400
And it's really important to have a
role model who looks different.

1145
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,760
Because different is good.

1146
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,000
Kids' TV doesn't always get
things right, but at its best,

1147
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,520
it's holding our hand as we navigate
our way through childhood.

1148
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,320
Every day of my life,

1149
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,200
I get a letter, or an email, saying,

1150
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,840
"Dear Floella, you don't know
what you mean to me.

1151
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,800
"When I was little, I knew
somebody loved me."

1152
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,640
We always, when we ended the show,
you don't just leave a child.

1153
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,960
You don't just leave them -
children wait.

1154
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,560
You know, we say, "Well,
it's time for us to go now,

1155
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,280
"but we'll be back again."

1156
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,040
But it's time for us to go now.
Bye-bye till tomorrow.

1157
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,280
Goodbye.

1158
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,000
We'll see you on Thursday, bye-bye!

1159
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,400
Bye-bye! Bye!

1160
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,840
As the world has changed, kids'
TV has changed with it.

1161
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,360
But what has remained the same

1162
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,240
is the need for kids to see
themselves, hear themselves,

1163
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,600
and feel they're not alone.
And as a mum of two,

1164
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,760
and someone that's pretty much
worked with kids my whole career,

1165
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,320
I definitely think that's something
worth fighting for.

1166
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,200
And full disclosure - at the very
least, it gives some of us

1167
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,520
the opportunity to go to the loo
on our own.