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[Shaunagh] This is not just about rugby,
this is not just about the sport.
It's about women and it's about women's sport,
and it's about putting us on a platform,
and knowing that we can do it.
I challenge anyone to say that women's rugby is not good enough
and women are not enough, 'cause we are.
[triumphant music]
I'm still surprised, in 2021 that people...
are surprised that women even play rugby.
[Sue] I think women's rugby is so far behind men's.
If you think about the time at which more formal rugby started,
women really there were considered so frail and weak.
People used to come and watch a game
because they wanted a laugh at women rolling around in the mud.
So many people, men and women
believe women shouldn't be playing sport, shouldn't be playing rugby.
[Sue] Young girls growing up, if they don't see female athletes
being celebrated in the way male athletes are,
what is it going to say to them?
[reporter] Despite a healthy press interest back at Twickenham today,
there are no plans for the women's game to go professional.
Apparently, we're second-class citizens,
and that's just how we're supposed to be treated.
[Victoria] It's tough for female athletes.
They just wanna play a sport they love.
No matter what level it is, you tend to find that
they'll face a lot of abuse for it, whether it's at grass roots
or international level, in person or online.
I actually push back really hard against this idea of,
"Don't worry, it'll make you stronger,"
'cause it doesn't, it stays with you forever.
[Shaunagh] So my career path, in brief,
is pretty much started playing rugby at Medway Rugby Club in 2015.
Had my first game in December 2015,
and was playing for England by November 2017,
less than two years later.
I'm Shaunagh Brown
and I currently play rugby for Harlequins in England as a tighthead prop.
Before rugby, I was very much into my athletics.
It was shot-put and discus and, eventually, hammer throw as well.
And then my ultimate in the career was
competing for England at the Commonwealth Games in 2014,
throwing a hammer, made it to the final.
[upbeat music playing]
That was what I had done before rugby.
But even within that I would do, sort of, anything that came up
in terms of opportunity to try different sports.
I tried Highland games, Strong Woman competitions, boxing,
anything that was offered to me, I would try and say yes to,
and I think that's part of why I've been so successful so quickly in rugby.
It's just because of my sporting background,
like, in having a great foundation to go and do any sport.
From the Commonwealth Games,
I kind of was on a bit of a low with it all
and, sort of, started falling out of love with the sport,
and instead of just either carrying on and being unhappy
or just stopping altogether,
I thought I'll look for a new challenge.
And literally, just looked up my local rugby club.
Emailed them, said, "Can I come and play?"
And they went, "Yeah, of course, you can.
We train once a week, on a Tuesday.
You're very welcome to come down."
And so I did, with my mum, my superfan.
I'm 25 years old and my mum's introducing me, like,
"This is Shaunagh.
She's never played before, can she play?"
I'm like, "Mum, I'm 25, I can do it myself."
But yeah, she was very much present for my first session.
And even now, Mum is my superwoman, superfan.
I suppose, looking back, she has always been the person that she is.
When she was younger, she always had male boyfriends.
Not boyfriends but male friends.
All her friends were always boys.
You know, and she played football,
she hung upside down on the monkeybars,
and would say, "Don't make me wear a dress
'cause I don't want to show my knickers off," you know, stuff like that.
Growing up, would you agree that I was a tomboy?
Definitely.
And what about... [clicks tongue] er...
like, transgender? Did you ever think that I wanted to be a boy?
-No. -No.
I used to get that constantly, the question.
Not even a question, they'd say, "Oh, you wanna be a boy."
'Cause of how I used to do my hair.
Do you remember, how I used to do my hair with plaits?
It was always like, "Are you a boy or a girl?"
I'm like, "I'm a girl."
But I had that when I was younger, I was a tomboy.
Not as much as you,
'cause I grew out of mine.
I had my hair cut short, shaved and everything.
And people used to think I was a boy.
I remember sitting on the bus once
and a group of people thought I was a boy.
[Stef] I think there are probably a lot of women in the world
that are naturally not afraid of physicality,
not afraid of contact and not afraid of being strong.
And there are very few places that...
women with that mentality get to exist, but also excel,
and I think that's why rugby resonated so deeply with me.
I'm Stef Evans, I play for Bristol Bears women
and I founded Ruggette RFC.
It's exciting.
I started playing when I was in high school.
I tried other sports, I really wanted to be good at a sport,
and I just couldn't find one that I felt good at.
There's also not a lot of contact sports available for girls
or physical sports available for girls in school.
When a friend of mine asked me to come try out for rugby in grade ten,
I've never seen a rugby game before in my entire life.
I didn't even know what the ball looked like.
And I went to my first practice,
and there was an introductory element of contact to it,
which really blew my mind.
I had no idea what the rules were, still, and I was like, "Done, I'm in."
And I was like, alright, I'm gonna, for the next little while,
I'm gonna, put everything and to see how far I can take this.
And I'm gonna go until the point where somebody says, you know...
You wanna leave the jersey and the game as a whole better than you found it
and nobody is doing it without a huge level of love
and determination and passion.
And I think, maybe we wouldn't love it as much if the game wasn't as...
as empowering or as freeing, as it is for a lot of us.
There's not that many opportunities for the type of female
that excels in rugby to excel elsewhere in the same way.
You know, we need the sport just as much as the sport needs us.
[Shaunagh] For me, playing rugby for Harlequins is all I know.
I had-- My first club was Medway Rugby Club,
which I was at for half a season and ever since then
I've only ever known the Harlequins' way of playing rugby.
My whole rugby life is Harlequins.
So for me, it is a special club to me
and I still hope to grow the relationship as we continue in the future as well.
There are so many people that...
didn't realise that women aren't professional actually.
So when I tell people, in 2021,
I'm a professional rugby player and they go like, "That's cool."
As if it's completely normal and then I, sort of, emphasise
there's only 28 of us English professional women rugby players in the country.
They're like, "Wow, I thought everyone was professional."
Especially, when you play Premiership Rugby,
with Harlequins amongst the top ten clubs in the country,
they just assume everyone's professional,
when actually so much of our team...
go to work.
[Stef] The vast majority of the people that play
in my league don't have agents,
we don't get paid.
You know, some get something,
some get expenses, some get nothing, a lot get nothing.
And we don't have somebody advocating for our...
you know, on behalf of us.
To play the Premiership, you have to, obviously, give up a lot of things,
or manage a lot of things.
Most of the difficulty lies in scheduling,
because you have a huge workload
associated with training, with fitness
that has to be worked around or fit in
with the things you have to do for your career.
[Shaunagh] Whether it's nine to fives,
or whether they're teachers, whether they're soldiers, paramedics.
We have doctors, we have dentists within our team
and still expecting to play a professional level of rugby
whilst not being professional rugby players.
[Stef] You also have to block out time for recovery,
which is usually the first thing that you want to cut into
when you are trying to fit in a lot of other things,
usually to do with your day job.
But It's really important in order to keep yourself at a good enough standard
that you can perform in a way you want to perform.
A lot of people that aren't intimately
acquainted with what it's like to do it
don't understand the level of commitment required.
It can be physically demanding, of course,
and it can be mentally and emotionally demanding.
But for me, anyway, the hardest part is that validation process.
That's the part that I feel the most taxed by.
Like you spend a lot of time having these little micro conversations
justifying and explaining what you do and why it takes so much time.
That can be, I think, emotionally very draining.
It is an honour to be a professional
female in sport because, growing up,
sport has been and is my whole life.
And it's something I always wanted to do.
So it's an honour now that I am a full-time
professional athlete and it makes me proud to say out loud.
It does come with pressures and you are...
rightly so, expected to know a lot more about rugby and the game and the team.
To work harder in the gym and put more time in
and, sort of, be that even within our team,
be that senior player, be that role model.
To enable other people to, sort of, come in
and want to follow in your footsteps.
[Stef] When I was a kid and I was growing up,
it wasn't a very body-positive place.
Especially, for somebody who didn't look like...
you know, what most people thought a woman should look like.
or a girl should look like.
I've always been a large person, I've always been big,
and as a kid, I got bullied really badly for it actually
all throughout elementary school and into high school as well.
And being physical in sports in school
didn't really help that whole dynamic, I guess.
It seems to give people who are already
looking for ways to attack me, it seemed to to give them more ammunition.
Starting about six or seven,
until I went to high school at 13,
I had this group of boys who used to follow me home from school
throwing rocks at me.
They used to tell me, like, I should go kill myself
because I was fat and ugly.
So I felt...
for the majority of my time at school,
like pretty monstrous actually.
Like something was wrong with the way I looked.
But then also, something was wrong with the way I acted.
And probably also why I felt so strongly about
finding a place where I could fit in
because I didn't feel like I had that.
I think that rugby...
Oh, I'm going to cry.
I think that rugby
was the first time I can remember feeling like,
maybe the problem wasn't me.
Maybe the problem was that I hadn't found a place
that I could exist the way that I was.
And rugby is inclusive in so many different ways.
It celebrates a lot of different body types,
especially at a recreational level,
it's something that doesn't discriminate, like everybody is welcome.
There's just a lot of things about the game itself of rugby that,
I think, create a community around it that is extremely inclusive
and becomes welcoming to a lot of people
who have never, maybe felt that in other arenas.
I think that my experience is probably specific to a few key things.
That feeling, I think, is probably pretty universal
for a lot of people who play it.
[Shaunagh] Growing up in terms of negativity,
I'd say I got teased at school a lot.
[sighs] I would say it was constant but from different people
and to the point where I just thought that was normal.
Like if I get teased, everyone must get teased,
the whole thing of not really being aware
of what's going on.
The fact that I was a bit different.
I'd get called a he-she, a she-man, she-hulk.
Mum used to tell me, "Ah, they're just jealous."
So that's all I kind of went with. I thought, they're just jealous.
Again, the strong mum that I had just to tell me that, like,
"You are good enough, you can do what you want to do.
You can be different and it's OK."
There are not many big stories I can tell you
where I was discriminated against.
But it's more just the subtleties of constant society saying,
"Oh, you shouldn't be looking like that,
you shouldn't be talking like that, you shouldn't be wearing that."
And just having a mum who just said,
"Do what you want.
Do what you want."
For me now, as I'm getting older,
I realise how powerful that was and how much again Mum has done for me
and us, as her kids and grandkids growing up now.
I love it now.
I'm like the odd one out so often.
I just enjoy reminding people that we can be whoever we want to be.
We can do what we wanna do.
If you wanna be a girl and wear a dress, that's fine.
If you wanna play rugby and wear make-up, that's fine.
If you don't wanna wear makeup, that's also fine.
It's just like doing what you want to do
because you want to do it, not because
your mum, your dad, your friends, your teachers,
or society tells you to do it.
It's just about feeling comfortable within yourself.
It's just a lot easier to live how you want to live, in my opinion.
[player] Up! Up! Up! Up!
Push it, you got it, you got it! Yay!
Whoo!
[cheering]
There aren't a whole lot of female role models available in the media
that have any, sort of, diversity to them.
When we look at the type of femininity that we still tend to
celebrate the most or tends to offer women
the most power in society.
We still see a lot of reality stars, models, singers,
and there is absolutely nothing wrong with portraying yourself like that
or by accessing power by what you look like,
that's absolutely fine.
But that can't be the only way
that we offer women and girls success in the world.
There have to be other options
because not everybody fits in the same box.
And there are a lot of women and girls that
could use role models that don't all look the same.
Female rugby players really kind of hit that nail on the head
because there is so much diversity
and body type and I think that
there is something very powerful about them being athletes.
The arena of sport offers a way to celebrate your body
and to value your body and to love your body quite a lot.
But not for what it looks like, but for what it can do.
I think it's very important that we make it very obvious to women
and to young girls, especially, that they can access power
with their bodies in a way that's not tied to what it looks like.
That's, I think, a hugely powerful message that women's rugby can communicate.
[Victoria] I think I love rugby
because of the community that it creates for people.
As soon as you put your body on the line
for 22 other people, you've made friends for life.
And that I wouldn't give up for the world.
I'm Victoria Rush.
I'm a rugby player and a producer.
Rugby's always been a hobby, it's just been something I loved.
It's gone in and out of my life for many years.
And then in 2020, during lockdown,
I realised how much I missed the community of players.
It's actually the "I am Enough" movement
that really brought me back into the game.
I started "I am Enough" by posting a photo of me in my kit,
in all the kits I'd ever played in to represent who I am
and what rugby means to me
and to give other people the opportunity
to do the same.
It resonated with how I'd always felt in sport,
that I wasn't enough as I am
to represent my team or myself.
The movement went so far and so wide,
we had players from London to Hong Kong,
Australia, U.S.A., all coming together
who cared about the sport as much as I did.
And that moment for me made me realise how much I needed to come back.
So when the Canterbury Irish kit launch came out,
ah, and you saw the pictures...
For me, in my head, I'm just like, ugh...
"Classic." And it doesn't come as a surprise.
[Victoria] They launched the kit with male players
but to represent the female kit, they used models.
And that really for all women in the game
represented everything that we faced.
And it was very much, oh...
like another campaign that's overlooked us as women players.
It may not have been
a massive decision they made. In fact, I know it wasn't.
It's just that lack of thought,
and lack of realising that...
it's probably not a good idea,
and that could come down to who's making those decisions,
and that's a whole different conversation as to who's in those board meetings,
who's got the power to make those decisions.
It was good to Canterbury to then be big enough and brave enough
to come out and apologise because they could've done
what so many companies do and pretend that it's not a thing and downplay it.
But they publicly apologised,
and then moved forward from that
and come out with the positive statements
as to how that gonna change the game
and how important brands are to rugby.
They've taken the hit in that moment in time.
But actually, there's a lot of people who would've sat back
and had to look at their selves
and had a look at what people they're using to promote their products.
Like how many women's products they have available even on their page
and now it's about looking forward and looking for change.
2020, I think, for all women's sport felt different.
Our games were given up a lot earlier,
a lot faster and a lot more easily.
There was this huge sense of loss
to women's sport and rugby, especially.
We thought with "I Am Enough" that we had really made a significance change,
but roll forward, six months later,
and we weren't ready for what was gonna happen next.
[chiming]
#icare started in response to
some trolling that was posted on a Six Nations postponement
announcement that went out on Sky Sports.
It was very simply a post saying
that the Women's Six Nations had been postponed.
There was no opinion or judgment attached to that,
it was just communicating the fact that postponement was happening.
It was really disappointing that the Six Nations was postponed,
but I think the response was just so much worse.
There was a huge amount of people commenting on that post,
something to the lines of, "nobody cares" or "this doesn't matter,"
or "nobody cares about women's rugby".
And I felt like it was very important for us as a community to make it
abundantly clear to anybody who was commenting on that post
but also anybody who was looking at that post and going through the comments
that quite a lot of us do care deeply about the sport.
I think #icare just showed the community that we are still...
together, we're in this together.
To have hundreds, if not thousands of people
tell you that they care too, men and women.
It's a huge movement and it's starting to really be proud of
and to not really forget on the tougher days.
I also think it's really important for anybody seeing it
especially young girls who might come across that posts
or might see anything to do with #icare
as a movement, as a hashtag,
to know that the way that they want to exist in sports
or as an athlete is something that a lot of people care very deeply about.
And they might come across messaging in the future that suggests otherwise,
but I hope that they come away with their interaction with #icare
and with this movement knowing that those messages are in the minimum
and the vast majority of us and the vast majority of the world
at large wants them to be here,
and holds a place for them.
[indistinct background chatter]
[Stef] In the world of women's rugby,
I think, it feels a little bit uphill all the time.
Day in and day out to some degree
validating why we try so hard at this,
why we put so much into it, why it matters.
This sport gives me so much, it gives everybody who plays it so much
and the idea that somebody wants to go out of their way
to tell me that that doesn't matter, I think, is not OK.
[upbeat music playing]
[whistle blows]
The whole reason that it's possible for something
like the comments that were being made to happen
is because, for a lot of those people,
that might be the first time they are coming across women's rugby content
or the first time they're coming across
women's sport content in a significant way
on a channel that they are used to following.
We're not creating enough content around women's rugby,
we're not creating enough content around women's sport, in general,
because if we were, those thoughts wouldn't be happening
and they would not be expressed on the internet.
When they postponed the Six Nations,
I felt a lot of hope that having those dates
run separately to the men's tournament.
And a lot of excitement as well that that could be a huge opportunity.
And I almost immediately felt, "OK, you know, this is frustrating."
But there's a big advantage that we could play with this
if we do it right as a community.
So Six Nations this year was...
it was different in a lot of ways, some good, some bad.
The main reason why we played
in April as opposed to the usual slot was because of COVID,
and it was a kind of the forced move.
But it actually turned out to be a lot better for us
and we discovered that, like, we get a lot more media attention around it.
We're now not in a shadow of the men,
we have the month of April to do our Six Nations.
And actually, when you speak to journalists,
they prefer it as well, and people in the media,
because they don't have to write about three rugby games
'cause you've also got the under-20 men's as well.
They could just write about one rugby game a week
and it's just that constant flow of rugby
and you don't joke about three buses...
waiting ages for a bus and then three buses come along at once.
It's no good to have all three buses...
You can't get on all three buses, you can only get on one at a time,
so why not spread them out.
We're in 2021, you still can't access the Allianz Premier 15s easily.
Unless you're a die-hard fan willing to persevere through
all sorts of forms and websites,
it's actually quite difficult to stream what you wanna watch.
And that's going to massively inhibit
young kids coming and finding the game
and learning about rugby and learning about women's rugby.
There are so many amazing players that they don't get to see,
that it's a loss, if anything, to the game.
[Shaunagh] This is part of the problem, is you have to look for it.
It is out there sometimes,
but you have to go lookin'.
And even when you know what you're looking for,
again, we hear stories from people,
"I couldn't find a live stream." "The website wasn't working."
"I had to sign my life away to, sort of, get it."
The Premiership is not televised yet.
In all honesty, I don't think it's ready,
in terms of a product, to go on TV,
because we're not all professional players.
We can go and win games by like 40 or 50-nil sometimes
and I'm not sure people seeing that is gonna grow the game.
[players shouting]
[whistle blows]
[Shaunagh] Getting it more accessible, but also improving the product
for people to want to watch it rather than having to go looking for it.
We're doing as much as we can in the sport.
There's always more to do.
And I would like to think I do my bit,
like having other people do their bit as well.
As long as we all do our bit to promote the sport.
[Victoria] There are so many things in the game, that need to change
but the one thing I think we all agree on is that we need a kit for women,
so why are still playing in men's kit?
It doesn't fit and it doesn't work for us.
[Stef] The reason that it's so, in my opinion,
inappropriate for women to wear men's shorts to play and train in
is that you'll end up with all sorts of rubbing.
You'll have to be rolling your shorts up to have them fit.
I've had repetitive hip flex or strain
from scrumming in men's shorts,
something that has to be managed with a physio
because of wearing men's shorts.
There is definitely an aesthetic component to it
but the largest component of it is performance based.
The shorts are probably the thing that most people,
most women, will identify with as being like
the catalyst, the hardest thing to solve to play rugby in.
I had a lot of conversations with male players
or people that are in positions of purchasing
for their club about kit.
And they'll usually say,
"Oh, we would really love to have women's kit,
we would really love that."
And if you ask them, they would absolutely tell you
that they love their women's programme and I believe that they do.
But immediately, on the other side of that,
they will say, "Well, we have to buy one pair of shorts."
There will be a financial or economical reason
that they have to purchase one short for the entire club.
My standard response to that is, "OK, well, for the last 75-ish years,
you've done that it that way with men's kit,
why don't, for next year, why don't we just do the exact same thing?
We'll buy one short and we'll just buy women's shorts
and the men can figure out, do the same thing.
They can do their sizechart and be like, 'OK, I would be a whatever,'
and we'll just, like, for one year."
And they always laugh.
They always laugh, they snort, "That would be ridiculous."
And I'm like, "So you agree?"
It sounds a bit dramatic to say it makes you feel unwanted,
but kind of something like that.
It's a mixed message of, like, "Come into this community
and play this sport, we want you here.
But we make nothing for you to do the sport in."
I started Ruggette because,
well, selfishly I didn't have shorts that I felt comfortable playing in
and I wanted to solve that problem for myself, I guess.
This is a classic femfit short.
It's our best-selling short, we have this in multiple fabrics now.
We have it in a ton of colours,
a ton of fabrics, a ton of finishing options.
We do custom stuff for teams.
I don't think about what it feels like to play in them
'cause I forget that I'm wearing them
because I don't have to be thinking about what I'm wearing.
And that was the biggest...
annoyance, previously wearing men's shorts,
being pulled away mentally from what you're doing.
To think about like, "This is uncomfortable."
I'm adjusting, I'm adjusting my shorts,
you're pulling your shorts down, you're pulling your shorts up,
you're re-rolling the waist,
you might not even realise how often you are doing it until you're not.
The fact that you can
just not have that whole mental process happen
is quite freeing, really,
'cause you can focus on what you're supposed to be doing,
which is playing a sport.
Regardless of the level that you play at, you know,
we all deserve to have the experience of feeling like
the kit that we're playing the sport in
can keep up with what we're doing.
Boots to me is not something I recognise as being a problem as a woman
because I wear size 8...
size 8s and size 9s,
which is a common men's size, so I don't have a problem.
But then our smaller players, who are size 4, 5, and 6s,
they have no choice but to wear children's boots.
And some say, "It's only a pair of boots."
There's a difference.
Even physically, how many studs are in there, etcetera.
Why should women have to be made to go to children's section to buy their boots?
[Stef] Whilst there's still a lot of work to be done,
and as far as making sure that
the women's game is invested in the same way as the men's
and that trying to narrow the gaps between
countries that have more and countries that have less for their programmes.
We're far from done, as far as achieving some sort of equality in rugby.
However, that said, we've also never seen this much investment in the women's game,
we've never seen this many platforms delivering content for the women's game.
We've also never, before now I have never seen this many supporters
wanting to consume that content
and asking for it if it doesn't exist.
That's a huge change in women's rugby as a whole.
[Shaunagh] It's just about advertising role models,
showing different faces, showing different body sizes,
body shapes, different mindsets.
Hi. I'm Zainab Alema, aka "The Bulldozer."
I'm a neonatal nurse by profession and a rugby player by passion
and I've won Sunday Times Grassroots Sportswoman of the Year 2020
and I love a cheeky Earl Grey.
I got into rugby at the age of 14.
So I was at high school and my PE teacher said,
"Right, girls, we're gonna do rugby today as a session."
And I was like, yes, bring it on.
So we had a rugby session and I absolutely fell in love.
Like the moment I touched that rugby ball, it was just like magic.
Running through people. Running with the ball.
It was amazing.
I went into rugby because I loved it, 'cause I just enjoyed it.
When I got to uni,
I just, sort of, took a step back and was like, "OK."
First of all, where are all the other Black girls?
Second of all, I'm the only Muslim on my team.
Where are the people that look like me?
You know. And I felt really isolated.
So going to uni was a massive eye-opener
and it really showed me the reality of the kind of space that I'm in.
I felt like I didn't fit in,
especially in regards to the drinking aspect.
You know, rugby is a very...
the culture of rugby, alcohol's really big, you know.
And, being a Muslim girl that doesn't drink, I found myself...
really in awkward positions.
So there actually was a point in my rugby journey where I felt like...
It was actually after uni. So having those experiences, I thought,
I don't know if I want to go back to rugby.
[indistinct chatter]
[Zainab] And I thought, actually let me check
in the rugby rule book to see if they actually allow
women to wear hijab,
to wear the head scarf because my faith is a big part of me
and my identity and I wanted to know if rugby, you know, accepted that.
So I went over the rule book,
just scanning through the section, the laws about clothing.
It was there in black and white in the rugby rule book
that I could wear a head scarf and play rugby.
And that for me was like, oh...
see, like, this is it.
Like, you belong in rugby. This is rugby telling you you're welcome.
And I just took that and ran with it
and actually it showed in the way I play.
My confidence just spiked up, like, "You've got this."
[coach giving feedback, indistinct]
There are so many people that would've automatically assumed that,
"I wear hijab. I can't play rugby," when that's not the case.
It's just sometimes you just need that little reminder that,
"Oh," again, like, "if she can do it, I can do it."
Visibility is major. Absolutely major.
I think women in general, when you have powerful role models,
if a young girl switches on a TV and sees
another woman doing something they love,
that's representation, that's visibility
and through that you're gonna get more people
wanting to join sport and wanting to follow their passions.
[cheering and applause]
Change in perceptions, I think, is a big one.
I've said to people, I didn't feel like I belonged in rugby.
That's sort of my initial force.
That perception, we can't be having that, you know.
But now, I can comfortably say as a Black Muslim woman,
I belong in rugby.
One thing that I think we're all starting to realise is that male allies
can have such a huge impact on women's sport.
Male allies in the women's game are hugely important
and always welcome and, like I say, a giant like Ugo Monye
being a very active ally
for the women's game is huge
because he's a kind of person, no matter what he's talking about,
people sit up and listen.
So I'm Ugo Monye, a former rugby player, here at Harlequins for 14 years.
Also played for England and the British and Irish Lions.
It's not an understatement to say that that rugby changed my life,
and we don't have enough time
to get into all those details, but it generally did.
My daughters are four and one and a half, or just about.
I hope that by the age when they're able to make their own decisions,
become teenagers and get exposed to
lots of different sports that they route into,
whether it's rugby, tennis, football, whatever it is,
I just hope they have a positive experience.
We have the great game, but if there's anything I can do to help better it,
to help promote it,
to help get more visibility, more eyes,
inspire people to get involved in it in any way, then,
yeah, I definitely want to be that guy.
It's easy to assume that only girls follow us.
But actually boys and men follow us, too.
And it's becoming a bit more socially acceptable for men
to come up to us and say, "Congratulations."
I think sometimes, they might feel a bit like, "Ooh, it's a bit weird,"
like, following women's sport as a man
but it's becoming a lot more normal, thankfully.
[Stef] The most important thing I would like
any male associated with sport or with rugby
to know off the bat is that their voices are needed in this conversation.
I also think that the way the world works right now,
with the way our social media algorithms work, for example,
a lot of people are existing in bubbles that never ever talk about
or discuss women's rugby.
And I can shout as much as I want and they will never hear me.
If a male player or a male administrator or just a male
who comes across this and understands the significance of it,
if they lend their voice to the conversation,
those are ripples on a completely different pond that I can't reach.
[Ugo] I don't think it's overcomplicated.
But I do think because we live in this
"every time you speak up or something, you are woke", I think that...
tends to then be a barrier to men speaking out 'cause they don't want to be
called that. I've been called it. Whatever, like, brush it off.
[Stef] Obviously, I would never ask anybody
to say anything that they didn't believe in.
I think it's important that
the male voices that we hear in this conversation are genuine
and that they mean what they say because,
you know, we don't need any more posturing in this community,
that's for sure.
But it's important to understand
that not only do we welcome them into this conversation,
but we need them, in order to reach places that we can't reach,
no matter how much we try.
Some person who's really helped me along this journey
has been Sue Anstiss,
and she is a phenomenal human being.
She is also a force of nature.
And I love her relentless attitude.
She puts women's sport
front and centre of every agenda.
She's been a great ally to myself
in order for me to hopefully be
her best male ally can for women's rugby.
She's a boss.
How lovely. Oh!
It often surprises and slightly disappoints me
that we don't see more professional footballers and rugby players and so on
perhaps calling out the negativity we see on social media.
Having someone re-tweet some content or a quote
actually can be hugely powerful in terms of changing perceptions
and those men who are in that
well-respected positions actually can make a massive difference in women's sport.
Having Sue involved in this documentary was almost a no-brainer.
She needs no introduction.
She's an absolute power house of women's sport
and she really understands
what has happened in other sports
that can translate so well into rugby.
In terms of investment in women's sport,
I think in the past, it's been a bit of a worthy, something we ought to do,
it's the right thing to do and more and more sponsors announcing
there's huge commercial value to be investing in women's sport.
And I think sometimes, we feel that fans in women's sport
are just women. But it's not just women that watch women's sport,
men and women watch.
However, there is also this opportunity to tap in to a huge fanbase
that perhaps hasn't followed much sport in the past,
which is women and families
and, you know, women make up 70, 80% of decision making
in terms of purchases that are made within the home.
So, women, are really powerful.
[Shaunagh] So, semi-final week.
Last session before the semi-final on Saturday.
And we get the pleasure of training at the Stoop tonight,
which is unusual for us.
But everyone loves being at the Stoop all the time.
So it's good. It'll be like a nice captain's run kind of feel to it
and we'll know exactly what to expect come Saturday.
[phone chimes]
-Hello. -[Zac, over phone] Yeah.
Look, Zac. Do you want to be on camera?
Where are you?
A camera is filming me today. You're on camera.
So this is the best thing about anyone coming to the Stoop.
You walk through the gate...
and you see my face.
Let's get closer.
Ready?
When I had more hair, as well.
Watch, like this.
It's knockout stages.
So we win. We have another week of a game.
If we don't win. That's it. Our season's done.
So there's a sort of a tenseness to the camp.
But, at the same time, you want to be jovial.
You don't wanna have too many big changes because...
actually what we've done throughout the season has clearly worked
because it's got us there in the first place.
So, yes, we're training for Saturday, but also,
as long as we train well for Saturday,
we then have another Saturday on our hands,
which will be an even bigger game.
[player 1] Let's go!
[player 2] On three.
-One, two, three. -[all] Quins!
[commentator] Show time.
[crowd cheering]
[applause]
[crowd chanting]
[applause]
I wanna be the best man ally I can be for women's game so...
I'm listening, I'm learning, erm...
And I'm trying to do my bit.
But, it's important to us, people like you,
who are the forefront of the game,
how can I help and how can other male allies really help
support the women's game?
I think the most basic form of help is just
remembering that social media is the ultimate and...
Like re-tweet and stuff or...
Just saying you're watching the game or, even if you're not watching it,
like, say where people can watch it,
talk about individual players
and having conversations about rugby
and interchanging both of them, like,
swapping in players and not talking about necessarily the men's team
or the women's team, like, it's just talking about rugby.
And then when you get to the higher levels, like,
people like yourself who are really, like,
in that rugby world, is come and...
not only come and watch us play but come and watch us train,
come and have conversations with us, like, you'll learn so much about,
like, the good side of us and the team and the stories, like.
-So many people have full-time jobs. -That's the best bit.
Yeah, so many people have full-time jobs and you'll be surprised, like,
someone just finished a nine-hour shift and has come straight to training.
And you'll think, "Oh, why are these people late to a meeting?
This is disgraceful, like, you're players, you should be on time for meetings."
But, actually, you'll find out
they've just got straight on the M25 after a nine-hour shift.
And they've had a chance to eat a sandwich on the way
and they've got three minutes to get changed into kit and be in a meet.
And you're like, oh, OK, maybe I understand
why it's a bit more relaxed around timings and bits like that.
I know for a fact that if I had to work a full-time job,
nine-hour shifts and train, I would never have achieved
the small things that I did in my career.
There's just no way. I wouldn't be able to do the both.
We know where the men's game's at.
Financially, it's...
a lot greater than the women's game.
It's been professional for over 26 years,
so some of the structures that we have within our game are...
they're deep rooted and...
give us a great platform.
But it's how you can use that platform to be able to amplify
the other part of our game, which is the women's game.
I know loads of lads who have little girls
who might wanna be rugby players.
Think about them and just step up and just say something.
Being inactive is... I just don't think is an option anymore.
[Zainab] So, since we've last spoken
I've decided to go on a journey
and that end goal is to play for England
and essentially make history
in being the first Muslim woman to play for England.
I put this picture up on social media
and I just got people talking, like,
would this be strange to see someone, you know, a Muslim woman play for England?
I was so scared to tell people because I was scared of what they'll say.
I'm currently at Barnes but I'm moving to Richmond.
So, Richmond play at the championship,
that's one above where I currently play for Barnes.
Sometimes I do sit down and think,
"What have I done? I just told the world that I..."
But I'm not putting pressure on myself, if I'm honest with you,
and the impact that it's having, just me saying I wanna play for England...
The impact that it's having is incredible.
On my page, I have a tab called "Support"
and this is where I essentially store all of the messages
of support on my social media.
And it helps me get through, you know, when I'm feeling a bit down,
when I feel a bit deflated, I go through the messages
of people just being so lovely.
For some, you know, people saying,
"Get those reps in, that's all it is."
That's Simi from Bristol Bears. She's a massive support.
"Just wanted to say you are smashing it, keep doing what you're doing."
"Zee, you're looking in shape, girl. Love it."
"Keep going, your journey is going to be something special,
I can see it."
Things like that is just awesome.
"I'm living for this journey, see.
When you win, I feel like I win, keep grinding."
Can you imagine someone telling you, like,
they're winning because you're winning? Like...
It's just... it's just... I can't even believe it.
World Rugby getting in there saying,
"Keep doing what you're doing, you...
you are an amazing inspiration to so many."
So, I've got the support of World Rugby.
You know, with all the misogynistic comments on social media,
the downside I guess of
being a female athlete where you get people just commenting
and being really nasty.
Can you imagine, like, if those comments...
all of those comments were actually positive comments.
I'd make such a massive impact to just women's sport in general.
That first cup I get is not for me,
it's literally for everybody that ever didn't really fit in.
Anyone that ever felt like they weren't good enough
or they couldn't follow their dreams.
So many odds I guess are against me, in general, not just for my identity
but just in general.
And for me to get there, if I can do it then anyone can, like anyone can.
All of the women that play for England, they all inspire me.
Just to be rubbing shoulders with them
would be absolutely amazing.
Would be absolute dream come true.
[Sue] In terms of the last year, and the impact of COVID,
I think at the beginning, there was this huge fear
that... Well, women's sport did stop much faster than men's sport.
There wasn't an opportunity to play, there wasn't coverage.
There was the worry that we would lose all that incredible momentum
we've built up over the last decade.
But, actually, it stimulated loads of conversation
around women's sport and why it matters
and funding and investment.
[Stef] If you looked at just the numbers,
the size of the women's rugby market,
how quickly it's grown over the last couple of years,
how many people play.
If you could pitch that to an investor
without having the words "women" or "rugby" in it,
if you just showed them the numbers,
the market reach, the growth potential,
anybody with any sense of business
would invest in it, but the second that you add in
"women's rugby" to it or "women's sport",
then you get all the hesitancy and that's what I find really confusing.
Because the numbers don't suggest that it's a bad investment.
So if the numbers aren't what's bothering you,
then it's the women's rugby part that's bothering you.
And that's not a business thing, that's a sexism thing.
Women's rugby and women's sport is a huge market
with untapped growth potential.
Nobody is taking full advantage of the market value of female players.
Not even close.
And the numbers in our game suggest that,
at bare minimum, there's 2.4 million people
who want to watch our games,
so the fact that they're not being put out there in a huge way,
from a business perspective, is very confusing.
Summing up the Premier Final in a sentence? [sighs]
That's a task in itself.
It's just emotional.
[indistinct announcement]
[Shaunagh] Leading up to it, like, it was a build up of emotion
and I almost felt like we should've sung the National Anthem first.
It was that kind of... that's how much it meant to all of us.
Fans were in. Like, take it all in.
For me, sport is about those moments
and literally looking around the stadium
and just seeing how many people you're making happy that day.
[announcer] And now please welcome Harlequin's women.
[cheers and applause]
When that first whistle goes, that's it. We're at war.
There's no... there is some smiling but, you know,
it's about what happens next
and about continuing it and sticking to
what we've done for the whole year in training.
Rachel Burford went down, I think, sort of, about 12-13 minutes in
and she rarely goes down.
But if she does go down, nine out of ten times
she gets up, like, maybe fully strapped up
and actually, she did get back up and it was like a phew!
But then, she went down again like, literally a few seconds later.
And what turned out to be like...
what kept her off, not only for the whole game,
but then out for a few months as well with surgery.
She is an inspiration.
I don't use it that often, that word.
But she is an inspiration. It sort of took us...
it took us by surprise, obviously, because it's an injury
but for it to happen so early and it was a kind of
emergency stations, like, where do we go from here?
After the semifinal, I... It was about 11:30 at night,
phone went... Ugo Monye.
And it's like a two and half minute voice note.
He just goes,
"So, I've watched the semi-final again.
I've watched it a few times and now I'm ready to give you an analysis on it.
And basically, you need to stop passing the ball.
All they need from you is to carry."
And I'm like, right, this is Ugo Monye.
England Sevens and 15s, British and Irish Lions.
He's telling me to carry.
I'm just gonna carry and I love it as well.
So, he's telling me to do it.
Don't pass too much, just carry.
That game was just about everyone doing their strengths
and not trying to do too much fancy stuff
and doing outside of that because that's how we were gonna win
and that's how we did win.
[cheering]
[Shaunagh] Final whistle went.
I started crying instantly.
Anyone... and then like hugging everyone and anyone that come up to me.
Our communications officer came over to us.
He went, "Mate, you've just won Player of the Match," and I went, "Oooh!"
I started all over again, like more tears and I was crying.
As I walked over to that microphone,
I didn't know that I was gonna say that. I didn't, like...
I didn't plan it or anything. It's just...
It's just the thoughts that are in my head, all day, every day.
Shaunagh, a huge congratulations,
erm, on the club's first ever Premier 15s title.
You've done it on the third time of asking.
What does that mean to you personally?
Well, I'm crying, so it must mean a lot 'cause I don't really cry.
But it's tears of happiness and...
my mum is in the crowd and she wasn't gonna come,
and I'm so glad that she did.
[reporter] Ah, Shaunagh, it's lovely to see that emotion.
It's lovely to see how much it means and I guess,
you know, this club has walked away from two consecutive finals
as runners up.
So, does this mean even more because of that disappointment?
[Shaunagh] Yeah. As I say, third time lucky.
But there was no luck involved in today at all.
It's hard work all season.
Last week, we thought we put on a performance of our season.
But clearly, we've come out and done it again.
I'm so proud of everyone and no individual
should be singled out because we're such a team
and I can't wait to be with the girls again.
[reporter] What does this mean to you guys as players and the club as a whole?
This is not just about rugby. This is not just about the sport.
It's about women and it's about women's sport.
And it's about putting us on a platform and knowing that we can do it.
And we have come out and put on an international standard of rugby
in front of fans and this is what rugby should be, week in, week out.
Men or women's. We're here and I challenge anyone to say that
women's rugby is not good enough
and women are not good enough, 'cause we are.
[crowd cheering]
[Shaunagh] Speaking to some rugby girls I've not seen in a while
and she said, "I'm so glad that you said it."
And it's everything I've ever wanted to say,
but just not had the guts to say it out loud.
I've never had so much attention, like media attention,
social media, my own phone.
It just went crazy from that interview.
And the amount of games I played for England.
We've won three Grand Slams
and nobody cared about that as much as they cared about
just a few sentences I said at the end of a really good game of rugby.
And the amount of grown men had said, "I cried.
You made me cry for the first time in ten years.
I was watching it and my wife was like,
'What are you doing? Come and watch it.' Then they all started crying."
In my head, I'm still just a kid from Peckham.
Just having a go at throwing an egg around on a bit of grass.
But it's just that if I can make a change to their life
just by being there or just by playing,
that's my why, that's why I do it.
[indistinct chatter]
[Shaunagh] Zac!
Shaunagh!
One... Again, one, two, three.
One more. One, two, three.
Shall we talk about the family group chat after the game?
What happened?
Erm, I don't know.
I got one sentence. "Well done, Shaunagh."
And that was it and they all started talking about new potatoes.
Who said, "Well done"?
I did. I said, "Well done, Shaunagh."
And then Anna said, "Have you got any new potatoes left?"
We like to keep her down to earth, you know.
Keep her feet firmly on the ground.
She said, "I've just got Player of the Match and we won the cup.
And you're worried about potatoes."
[Lesley] I do get a lot of people saying to me,
"Oh, you must be so proud," you know.
Of course I am. You know, what more can I say? I am proud.
I suppose other people see her very differently to me
and it is like that, "Oh, you must be so proud.
You know, she has achieved so much."
Yes, I'm proud. I'll be proud of her no matter what she'd done.
But, you know, I'm very proud of her.
But she's still Shaunagh and she always will be.
I liked the way you spoke. You know, you were very...
-Passionate. -Passionate. Yeah. Controlled, yeah.
-Controlled?! -Controlled?!
I was in tears, Granddad.
I think the fact that she's doing it for women
is the best thing, because...
if it wasn't rugby, it may be something else,
'cause she's always been
doing jobs that women don't like, gas engineer, firefighter.
So she's been like that for a long time
and that inspiration, she just...
she oozes it, you know, she just...
She just corrects me every time.
If I refer to the dog as a "he". "She!"
Or if I say, "Where's the workman, today?"
"Who says it's a workman?"
It's not that it's on her mind all the time, but she is aware
that women are equal to men.
You know, so she reminds me of it every single day.
How do you guys feel about the World Cup next year,
the fact that it's postponed?
Are you looking forward to it? You gonna come watch?
Hoping I'll be in the team? What are our thoughts?
Well, I hope you're in the team, 'cause I intend on going there.
I think the achievements she would like at this moment in time in rugby
is to play in the World Cup.
Yeah, she would love to do that and I would love her to do that.
If she could get into that team for the World Cup
that would be her, sort of, pinnacle of her career in rugby, I think.
Never before in the history of women's rugby
have we seen this many people willing to lend their voices to the discussion,
willing to take on roles in growing the game
and putting so much time into it.
But also, you know, we've never seen this many people
wanting to support the games, wanting to consume the content we put out.
[Sue] Across the decades, we've thought this is gonna be the moment,
but I really do feel it's now. I think just too much has happened
across too many sports for us not to see this momentous growth keep going.
And it's not just in terms of the visibility of women's sport
but also investment and funding and sponsorship
and governance and women in key board roles and coaches and officials.
It's women across sport, so I really do feel now is the time.
It could make a massive difference to have
a fully professional Allianz Premier 15s.
We kind of celebrate these amazing female athletes
that hold down three jobs and their frontline NHS workers and...
That's all fine, but the only reason they're doing three jobs
and also play rugby is because they're not being paid
to play professionally in the way that men are.
Whilst, it is amazing that they do all this, but they won't need to
because they'll be able to be paid professionally to do the job,
and then when they are, we'll just see the increase in standards of play
which we've already witnessed in the last five years.
But when women can actually play full-time
and they're not trying to work full-time, and then train in the evening
and, you know, play a couple times a week,
we'll see that increase in the quality of play,
equalizing across the teams as well, so, much more competition.
There's been an enormous amount of momentum for the women's game.
Zee is now a Canterbury Ambassador,
and I truly believe that there's something to do
with the movements that we've had over the last few years.
But now we gotta make sure that we carry the momentum we have forwards with us.
We keep our voices heard and we make sure that that doesn't change.
You could Tweet about it.
You could celebrate their moments,
you could celebrate their victories.
You could point people in the direction of where they can watch it.
That's a simple thing, which takes not a lot of time,
certainly doesn't cost any money.
Connect with them, talk to them.
Show them some love, show them some support.
[Stef] The more that you can watch and like and support,
and talk about it in a public way,
the content relating to women's rugby, and to teams you like.
That's a bigger action than you might realise.
And it has knock-on effects in a number of different ways
but it helps people that are looking at our sports
from an investment perspective.
It helps them believe that it matters to other people.
There are moments where it's really difficult
and there are definitely times that you're so tired, you don't...
you struggle to find a reason why you're doing all this.
And in those moments, I think a lot about
the concept of leaving the jersey better than you found it
for the next generation, like I...
grew up not ever thinking that there would be any professional
women's sports in any capacity, much less for rugby.
There are so many young girls watching our games, following us on social media,
who are going to grow up knowing that this is a possibility for them,
and knowing that this is something that they could do
and they could make a career out of.
And that's what keeps me going when I'm struggling to find a reason to.
I think it's the hope that what I'm doing is going to make things better
for the next generation.
[Shaunagh] It's got to come in investment
and investment is the word it is,
it's not throwing money at a situation,
or throwing money down a drain, it's an investment.
And in so many financial situations in life,
when you invest in,
whether it's a product, or a service or a person,
or property... like, you don't get your money back straight away.
You don't get your money back in five or ten years.
You get your money back in the 20, 25 years-plus slot.
So it's about companies now realising
that it's a good time to invest in women's rugby
and accept that they're not going to get their returns anytime soon.
But number one, it's the right thing to do,
and number two, they will get it...
it will be...
in 25 years, when we are fully professional
as a sport, as a Premier 15s...
that people will look back and go, "Oh..."
I'm so glad that this company put the money in at this point
because that's now the reason the game is so good.
[cheers and applause]
And if you put your money where your mouth is,
us, as women,
we'll show you we are worthy, as we always do.
Mic drop!
-I can do the snappy thing now. -[director] OK.
[crew] Take one.
[Lesley] Oh! This is technical stuff. Ooh!
-Action! -I don't get the clicky board!
The only reason I did this documentary is just to be the person that goes...
But now I'm not. No.
And if you want to hit record 'cause obviously that's--
-Oh, it's recording. -I'm already recording.
Oh, sorry, mate.
I'll do my Beyoncé bit in a minute.
[crew 2] Rolling.