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Grandma Chelly was always,
to us, larger than life.

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- What happened?
- Yes, we do.

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What happened? What happened?

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And she was also
unusual and eccentric.

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What are you doing?

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She was completely the most

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un-grandma person that,
you know, anyone could have.

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In fact, when I used to meet
people for the first time

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and they would ask about me
and stuff like that,

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and then I would mention
something about my grandmother,

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"She owns most of the porno
theaters in New York,"

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and then, of course,
I would get that classic pause,

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which I think I actually
enjoyed, which was,

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"Yeah, right. No. What does your
grandmother really do?"

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And I was, like, "No.
That's the truth, actually."

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Except for the fact
that she was...

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Jewish who celebrated
Christmas in a porn theater,

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it doesn't get
any weirder than that.

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Going into her apartment

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was always
an interesting experience.

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Because we were little,
we didn't really understand

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that she was living
over an all-male

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gay pornographic movie theater.

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So, here we were dressed
in our little, you know,

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Lord and Taylor coats and our
shopping bags from Westchester.

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And my mother would
knock on the box office.

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There was usually
somebody there that she knew,

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and they would buzz us in

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and we'd just be
in the lobby for a little bit,

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and make a right and go up
a very steep group of stairs

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into her apartment.

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And then, we were
in her apartment,

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and then you were
in a different world.

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Everything looked very golden.

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It was sort of like a kitsch
version of a '70s Trump,

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sort of mixed in with a Greek
Corinthian column mixed in.

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It was all just
a mélange of strangeness.

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It was quite a scene.

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The cast of characters
that she had around her

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were just like
caricatures of caricatures.

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You never quite knew who
was a lover, who was a friend,

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who was an ex,
who was a future thing.

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There was this cabal
of Greek witches.

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You know, very heavyset,

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dark dressed women with deep
voices, full of cigarettes.

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And then, she would
usually be sitting on the couch,

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center stage.

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She was holding court.

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Like a mafia queen.

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She had a very funny way
of speaking.

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She had this very sort of strong

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kind of voice, like this,
and she used to curse a lot.

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It was always entertaining.
It was just a show.

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I mean, it was always just
like a crazy family circus.

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And I always got this feeling
there were secrets going on,

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that I had no idea
what was going on.

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Behind the Christmas tree,

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there were all the monitors
of all the porn theaters

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in black and white, showing
all these surveillance cameras

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and things like that.

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So, even that was
a whole level of craziness.

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We would love
to watch the videos,

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so we could see who was
coming into the theater

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and count how many men
with raincoats and umbrellas.

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That's how we
entertained ourselves.

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But you didn't understand it.

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I mean, nobody, not one person,

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ever explained it to us.

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Nobody ever sat down and said,

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"This might make you feel
uncomfortable," or nothing.

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It was just like, "Here you go."

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Oh, my God. What we got now?

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I was very prideful about her

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because she was
so completely unusual.

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Everything you said about her

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just sounded like
it was made up.

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QUEEN OF THE DEUCE

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New York, in the 1970s,

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was in a state of crisis pretty
much for the whole decade.

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Businesses were moving out
of the city, into the suburbs.

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People were leaving the city
to move to the suburbs.

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Although it was an incredibly
dire economic situation,

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it was an incredibly
creative period,

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marked by this incredible sense
of innovation and exploration.

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GAY PRIDE

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NY IST RUN ADULTS
FREESTYLE LOVE THE CONTEST

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New York City

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was very different in the 1970s.

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Everything that I remember

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was X-rated theaters everywhere.

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You know, my mother's theaters
up and down the street.

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Chelly Wilson was one of
the most successful Greek women

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in America back then,

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and this was porno movies
24 hours, I would say.

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It never closed.

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People just walk in
one after another.

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Very smart and
very successful woman.

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She knew what she was doing.

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Chelly Wilson was a known person

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on 42nd Street,
also known as the Deuce.

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I worked for Show World Center,

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which was a sort of
a landmark staple at that time.

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It was actually a...

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a sex emporium

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that had videos

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and live entertainment,

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and what we call booth babies,

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where there were girls
inside a booth.

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You couldn't touch them

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because there was a piece of
glass between you and them.

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Chelly obviously knew
about us and we knew about her.

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And then, when I got to meet
her, we just happened to click.

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We took a liking to each other.

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I admired her so much,
and I think, perhaps,

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that's why
she took a liking to me,

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because she saw
the admiration I had on my face

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when I would speak to her.

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Well, she had the nerve to do
and the foresight to do things

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that I never would've
thought of doing

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or would've had the nerve to do.

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I'm not saying that she had great,

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high ideals,

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but she was a force of nature,

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and that was
what I found fascinating.

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And really,
you know, as a young kid,

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to see people
that can be that forcible

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is really inspiring because you
realize, "I can do it, too."

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I started out my photo career

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working on hardcore porn films,

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and I got the job because
my ex-husband was a producer.

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Herb Nitke. He made a movie
called The Devil in Miss Jones.

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The Devil in Miss Jones
was an enormous hit.

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And Herb did business with her.

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I remember meeting her
and just thinking

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she was just larger than life.

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She was powerful-looking.

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She was like a ball of fire

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and just incredibly engaging,
like you could not not like her.

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It was just something about her
that was... that drew you in.

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To tell you the honest truth,

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I think I fell
in love with Chelly,

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in a way, before I ever
met her daughter Bondi.

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I always basically wanted
to be in the theater

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and that's why
I came to New York.

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But that's a very tough
business to get into,

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especially when you're
trying to be a performer.

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And so, I wasn't having too much
luck with finding acting jobs.

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So, I took a job cutting film.

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A friend of mine
named Sandy Johnson

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had been working for Chelly.

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So, he said,
"I want you to meet her."

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We go to the Eros,
and we go up through the lobby,

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and up the stairs
into an apartment,

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a very nice apartment.

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And in the living room,
holding court,

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was this woman in a muumuu,
half-reclined on the sofa.

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And there were five or six
people all talking to her,

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and in front of her was
a long glass coffee table

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supported by
two white elephants.

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That was where all her papers
were. That was her desk.

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I said, "Who is this?"
"That's Chelly Wilson.

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"She makes a lot of films

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and she has a lot of theaters."

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I noticed some shopping bags
all around the desk,

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and I looked down
and they were filled with cash.

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And I nudged Sandy
and I said, "What...

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What is this?"

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"That's from the theaters."

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"Sandy, come over here.

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Give me a kiss."

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So, he did,
and then, he introduced me.

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"Don.
Oh, Don, do you make movies?

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You want to make movies for me?
We can do business."

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Of course, she was
tremendous at business.

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She just did amazing things.

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I think Chelly was one of
the first, if not the first,

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to import homosexual films
to New York City.

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The Adonis...

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that was a nice theater.

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The Adonis Theater
was one of the, sort of, premier

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gay porn theaters.

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It was so famous,

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it became, then,
a topic of a porn movie itself.

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And one of the things I like
about the porn movie,

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it's called A Night at the Adonis,

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is that it portrays the Adonis
as a kind of community center.

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What about that guy there?
The one with all the keys.

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We call him the Jingler.
He's an artist at giving head.

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Going to the Adonis
was a time in my life

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when I was trying to
explore my sexuality.

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I would go to have gay sex,
and it was a lot of fun.

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It was all about finding a place

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where you can
express your feelings,

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express your sexuality.

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I love this place.

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Now, I don't think there's
a room in this building

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I haven't fucked in.

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She named it the Adonis

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after she acquired it.

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00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,376
Before the Adonis,
it was the Tivoli.

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She bought the Tivoli
property from Gulf and Western.

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That was really
a premier theater.

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I think it opened in the '20s.

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She acquired the property
on a very good deal

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00:10:36,975 --> 00:10:39,191
because it was a porn theater.

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00:10:39,216 --> 00:10:40,735
She was a great wheeler-dealer.

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She had a lot of chutzpah.

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Actually,
I think she loved the deal

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00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,376
and making the deal

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more than she ever loved
what the deal finally led to.

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It was fun,

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00:10:50,728 --> 00:10:52,384
but she certainly
didn't care about

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gathering lots of money
to show off.

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00:10:54,931 --> 00:10:58,734
She was not into luxury.

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00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:00,495
She's living over
a porn theater.

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00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,336
She could have afforded
a very nice apartment,

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00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,711
any place in the city, but no,

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00:11:05,736 --> 00:11:07,936
didn't matter; this was home.

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00:11:11,094 --> 00:11:14,043
That was it, which is
the movie theater. Yeah.

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00:11:14,352 --> 00:11:16,536
Now, they changed the inside.

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00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,207
They did a restaurant.

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00:11:18,232 --> 00:11:20,928
But the structure,
it's the same.

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00:11:21,652 --> 00:11:24,563
She really started at the Cameo.

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Then, she picked up the Tivoli,
which became the Adonis.

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00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,696
Then, she got the Eros
and the Venus.

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00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,930
Then, there was the Lido West,

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00:11:32,955 --> 00:11:35,016
and then there was a Lido East.

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00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,896
So, that's how many theaters?
It's a lot of theaters.

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00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,696
This is the famous
Cameo Theater.

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00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,896
That would play
the X-rated movies,

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00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,736
for 24 hours, I don't know
for how many years.

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00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,576
People just come in and out,
in and out, in and out.

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00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,296
But this was the main
attraction, all these lights;

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00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,256
this would light up the
entire 44th and Eighth Avenue.

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00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,096
And this is where
I used to work.

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00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,280
It was very convenient to go
from one place to another.

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00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,816
She would call me, say,
"Do this, do that."

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00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,016
And I would leave my job

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00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,856
with my boss's permission,
because they were good friends.

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00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,576
You could never
say no to Chelly;

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00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,976
whatever she wanted
to do had to be done.

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00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,832
That means, "Shut up. I will
pay you," and she always did.

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00:12:21,004 --> 00:12:23,896
She will call me
and she will say,

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00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,692
"Bring me four or five
cartons of cigarettes."

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00:12:27,761 --> 00:12:29,776
Means, "Has to be done now."

248
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,777
"Tóra." And you know,
we would do what she wanted.

249
00:12:33,802 --> 00:12:35,895
My sister
and I always used to say,

250
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,496
"Mother, leave us
all your boyfriends."

251
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,293
Because she had all these people
that would do things for her,

252
00:12:42,318 --> 00:12:44,855
tremendous connections
in all different areas.

253
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,664
So, she would use them
if she needed to.

254
00:12:47,689 --> 00:12:50,456
She would call me
just to go upstairs

255
00:12:50,481 --> 00:12:52,351
and just listen to her.

256
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,176
"Sit down."

257
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,296
Okay. I'll sit down, you know?

258
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,777
And she would curse people

259
00:12:57,802 --> 00:13:00,203
that I had no idea
who she was talking about.

260
00:13:00,290 --> 00:13:03,058
Not long.
20 minutes, half an hour.

261
00:13:03,126 --> 00:13:06,617
Then, she open up the closet,
give me a $100 bill.

262
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,183
"Get out of here now.
Now, get the hell out."

263
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,176
As a matter of fact...

264
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,738
"Go to hell."

265
00:13:12,763 --> 00:13:14,259
That was her...

266
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,656
She didn't mean that.
I know what she meant.

267
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:18,360
Like, "It's enough."
You know, I know that.

268
00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:20,514
A lot of times,
she was very angry.

269
00:13:20,539 --> 00:13:21,816
She would try to tell you,

270
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,343
"You stupid idiot. You didn't
do what I told you to do."

271
00:13:24,368 --> 00:13:28,095
Well, she was very emotional,
because she's Greek.

272
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,064
And so, her temper would
overflow a lot

273
00:13:32,089 --> 00:13:34,136
and she enjoyed that.

274
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,164
She really enjoyed getting
into emotional explosions.

275
00:13:37,189 --> 00:13:40,652
But it was a great relationship
between all these people here.

276
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,176
We were all like brothers.

277
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,976
We're like family.

278
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,616
The Eighth Avenue
was to accept the person.

279
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,416
If they're gay,
if they're Black, white.

280
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,416
There was no racism
at all back then.

281
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,136
I rather would never came back
and see it like this.

282
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,656
Right now, I don't see any life.

283
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,416
I see people walking around,

284
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,368
but if they call this life? No.

285
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,456
Here she's in
her glories right now.

286
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,106
She'd say, "I accomplished
what I wanted to do."

287
00:14:09,131 --> 00:14:11,696
That's exactly
how she was most of the time.

288
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,479
Most of the time, wearing black

289
00:14:13,504 --> 00:14:15,330
and holding
a cigarette or a cigar.

290
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,136
She would rarely smile
that I remember.

291
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:20,616
Even here, she's not smiling.

292
00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:23,697
She never spoke
about the past. No.

293
00:14:27,933 --> 00:14:29,429
Her sister and her brother

294
00:14:29,454 --> 00:14:30,906
were killed in the Holocaust.

295
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,536
In a lot of families,
people never talk about it.

296
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,764
That's not unusual that they
don't talk about the Holocaust.

297
00:14:40,303 --> 00:14:41,616
It wasn't something

298
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,049
that, you know,

299
00:14:44,074 --> 00:14:47,260
we were educated about
or told about.

300
00:14:47,791 --> 00:14:50,456
I didn't grow up
with my mother telling me,

301
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,924
"You had an uncle. You had
an aunt. You had grandparents."

302
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:58,266
I didn't even know
I had a sister

303
00:14:58,291 --> 00:15:00,154
until she came from Greece.

304
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,856
I had no idea that I was Jewish.

305
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,536
Everything was on
a need-to-know basis, I guess.

306
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,776
That is what
I do regret because,

307
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,619
had I really realized that
and appreciated that,

308
00:15:13,869 --> 00:15:16,776
I might have asked my mother
many, many more questions

309
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,068
that I didn't ask. And I
might have gotten answers,

310
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,176
and I might have even
been very surprised

311
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,336
by what the answers were,

312
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,336
and I do regret that.

313
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,776
In 1983, I got Bondi
to sit down with Chelly

314
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,976
and do an interview, because I
began to feel that the memories

315
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,856
that she had were going to fade,

316
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,216
or we were going to lose them
if anything happened to her,

317
00:15:38,907 --> 00:15:40,860
and it was amazing.

318
00:15:41,188 --> 00:15:42,616
Three. One, two, three.

319
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,896
Testing. One, two, three.

320
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,576
Tell me about the family.

321
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,328
The great grandfather comes
from Spain.

322
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,364
My father, Davico Serero,
went to Salonika.

323
00:15:54,723 --> 00:15:57,735
SALONIKA, GREECE

324
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,062
Salonika, known as Thessaloniki,

325
00:16:04,087 --> 00:16:07,008
had a very large
Jewish population.

326
00:16:10,015 --> 00:16:14,690
The language they spoke was
Ladino, which is Judeo-Spanish.

327
00:16:14,715 --> 00:16:17,016
That was her first language.

328
00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:19,137
She learned Greek in the streets

329
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,864
and she learned French
in school.

330
00:16:24,028 --> 00:16:27,416
She was a Sephardic Jew, and
they were extremely religious.

331
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,214
Society in Thessaloniki
was very strict,

332
00:16:31,239 --> 00:16:34,016
and it was very difficult
for her to deal with that.

333
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,372
She was more expansive
than that.

334
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,736
And she, apparently,

335
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,188
was a whirlwind even then,
in her early days.

336
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,216
They called me Solomon Serero

337
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,056
because I was like a tomboy.

338
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,176
And I loved to go to the theatre.

339
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,496
I became president
of the theatre club.

340
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,436
I was studying,
I wanted to be a doctor.

341
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,896
I used to play violin, you know,

342
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,296
and I went to a concert.

343
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,416
When I took the tram

344
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,096
somebody entered and
stepped on my foot.

345
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:15,176
He opens his mouth and says
"Pardon, mademoiselle."

346
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,456
This son of a bitch, Moise Bourla,
comes after me,

347
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,252
comes after me, comes after me.

348
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,533
And he says to my father,

349
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,080
"I have the honour to ask you
for the hand of your daughter."

350
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,136
And when my father
saw that he spoke French,

351
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,376
my father gave in to him.

352
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,536
He comes home and says,

353
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,696
"I found the man for you,
you're getting married."

354
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,856
I said, "Papa, are you crazy?
I don't know the guy!"

355
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,256
"We'll introduce you to the guy."

356
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,856
When introduced to the guy,
I wanted to vomit.

357
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,296
He was short, he was a mess,
he didn't know how to speak Greek.

358
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,856
So then they got me engaged.

359
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,936
He wanted to kiss me and I said,
"You son of a bitch,

360
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,416
don't you put your hands on me!

361
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:55,456
I'll kill you!"

362
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,536
And I put my hands with my nails

363
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,056
and I scratched him all over.

364
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,852
He was so repulsive to me,
the son of a bitch!

365
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,176
My mother always said
that she got married

366
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,736
because her father
wanted her to get married.

367
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,456
And she respected her father
very much, but she said,

368
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,416
"When you die,
I'm going to get divorced."

369
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,376
What she resented most
was the fact that

370
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,876
it was an arranged marriage.
It was not her choice.

371
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,616
And that's it, I got married.

372
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,532
And Dino was born.

373
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:29,496
And then I left him.

374
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:30,816
And you went to France?

375
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,468
I went to France, he took Dino.

376
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,136
He kidnapped Dino.

377
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,776
I went to France, to my aunt's.

378
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,176
She was not meant to be
a housewife.

379
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:39,736
Let's put it that way.

380
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,336
She was not noikokyrá,
I don't think.

381
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,976
My father wrote me a letter,

382
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,896
"Please come back, I don't feel
good, I'm going to die,"

383
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:47,936
and so forth.

384
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,976
I said "OK".

385
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,256
So I came back.

386
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:51,336
In the meantime,

387
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,416
my husband made me go with him
in order to bring Dino.

388
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,456
He blackmailed me.

389
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,416
"You are not going to
see Dino if you don't stay with me."

390
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,376
And he took me
to a hotel to go with him.

391
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,736
I was like a mummy, you know,
he was kissing me all over.

392
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,056
And I wanted to kill him! Repulsive!

393
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,176
Every kiss he put on my body, I
wanted to kill him. It was torture!

394
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,856
And then, you got pregnant
and you had Paulette?

395
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,376
- Yeah.
- Did you stay with him?

396
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,736
No, after Paulette, I just left him.
I threw him out.

397
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,776
She got a
Jewish divorce, called a "get,"

398
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,352
so that Moise could remarry.

399
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,416
Oh, this is me and my brother.

400
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,056
I remember.

401
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,136
You know what I remember
about this picture?

402
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,496
Holding his hand,

403
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,256
or he's holding my hand.

404
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,921
I was born in Athens.

405
00:19:39,946 --> 00:19:42,095
And so, the divorce was,

406
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,959
she would take the daughter
and he will take my brother,

407
00:19:46,984 --> 00:19:50,128
Daniel, and this is how we were.

408
00:19:50,277 --> 00:19:52,158
My mother had a business.

409
00:19:52,183 --> 00:19:53,533
I had my own store.

410
00:19:53,558 --> 00:19:56,736
"ARKTOS" Rachel Serero, R. S.

411
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,376
I was making frigidaires,
I was making stoves and everything.

412
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,856
I was making a lot of money.

413
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,696
And she complained
to her secretary.

414
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,656
Her name was Ellie.

415
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,536
"What am I going to
do with Paulette?"

416
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,856
Ellie said to her,

417
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,136
"Don't worry about it.
We'll take Paulette.

418
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,056
"We'll bring you to Mama Yulia
and she'll take care of her.

419
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,976
So, you don't have
to worry about it."

420
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,616
I think she knew her
limitations.

421
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,576
I think she knew, "I'm not
a mother."

422
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,656
You know, "I can be something,
but not a mother."

423
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,416
And then, the story goes,

424
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,816
or the myth goes, that a man
came in the middle of the night

425
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,296
and scooped her up
and brought her to this family.

426
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,976
Julia, who we used to call Yaya.

427
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,376
This is the way I went
to Yaya's house from here.

428
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,936
Who is it? I don't know.

429
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,616
All I know, he took...
They took me.

430
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,136
They were taking me to Yaya's.

431
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,176
They're in a taverna,
having a good time,

432
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,896
and they're taking
a picture of me sleeping.

433
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,976
I look horrible.
I look like an orphan.

434
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,576
Look at my shoes.
I have dirty feet.

435
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,016
Obviously, my mother
told them to do it,

436
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,016
and whatever Chelly says,
everybody does.

437
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,776
There was one thing
my mother said to Ellie.

438
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,056
"Make sure that
she doesn't speak Spanish

439
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,816
"when you take her home.

440
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,936
I want her to speak only Greek."

441
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,816
And the reason for that,
I found out later,

442
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,504
it was because
the Greek Jews had an accent.

443
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,176
Poland, September, 1939.

444
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,456
The German foe begins
its ruthless march of conquest

445
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,252
and sets the stage
for World War II.

446
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,736
And then the war started.

447
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,296
I went to see all of them

448
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,736
and I said, "Now look, because
I know they're going to kill

449
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,616
all the Jews, I can get passports
for you to go to America."

450
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,296
Because my friend was
the mayor of Athens, Kotzias.

451
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,216
I said, "Let's go."

452
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,336
"What!?"

453
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,616
Are you crazy, Solomon Serero?

454
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,056
We've got so much gold here.
We've got so much property.

455
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,056
We've got everything. We're going
to leave everything and go?

456
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,576
"We do business with the Germans!"

457
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,736
So I didn't trust anybody!

458
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,496
I went to Mama Yulia, I said,
"I'm leaving you a letter."

459
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,376
You're going to keep Paulette here.

460
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,496
Under no circumstance will you
deliver Paulette to my family.

461
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,656
No mother, no father,
no sister, to nobody!

462
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,456
"She stays with you until I say so."

463
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,460
And I left Paulette there.
Four years old.

464
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,816
She gave me a kiss.

465
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,788
She says, "I'm going away.
I'll be back to get you."

466
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,976
She took her pinky ring out
and gave me her pinky ring,

467
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,300
and that was it, and she left.

468
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,376
My mother left Greece in 1939

469
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,456
on the Nea Hell as,
the last boat that left Athens

470
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,912
for America
before the war broke out.

471
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,656
It's hard to think about.

472
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,792
How do you leave your child...

473
00:23:15,802 --> 00:23:20,798
and go to a country that you
don't know anything about?

474
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,338
I came to the United States
with five dollars in my pocket.

475
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,816
So I didn't know about America.

476
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,856
I didn't know how very difficult
it was.

477
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,696
I don't know about that.
You know?

478
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,216
And I met some people,
Kay and Chrissy, on the boat.

479
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,856
So when I came out, I said
"Where are we going to go?"

480
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,300
"We're going to go to
the Rex Hotel with five dollars."

481
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,496
I said, "Kay, one day,
you're going to be my helper."

482
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,296
"Are you crazy?" she says to me.
I say, "I'm not crazy."

483
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,928
I said, "I bet you any money you're
going to be my employee one day."

484
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,216
Mr. Yiannopoulos owns
a lot of stands, you know,

485
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,868
with hot dogs and everything.

486
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:12,496
And the next day, he says to me,
"You know something,

487
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:13,976
I want to do business with you."
I said, "Okay."

488
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,200
So he took me with a car to
Dyckman Street.

489
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,056
He says, "We're going to
put the stand there.

490
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,016
It's going to cost maybe $6,000,
plus merchandise.

491
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,136
So you give me $50 a month."

492
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,256
She sold hot dogs
and soda, and she used to go,

493
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,404
"Pepsi-Cola, Coca-Cola, 7 Up."

494
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,096
And I took Kay as my employee.

495
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,456
I said, "See? We should've
made a bet.

496
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,976
I took you as an employee."

497
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,016
My job, when I was very little,

498
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,456
was to fill up
these bags with peanuts.

499
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,936
I was supposed to put
13 peanuts in the bag.

500
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,456
She sold them for 15 cents.

501
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,096
And I said to my mother,

502
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,576
"You're cheating the people.
You're charging too much."

503
00:24:54,172 --> 00:24:57,068
And my mother said,
"Don't be a stupid.

504
00:24:57,093 --> 00:24:59,176
You have to make a profit."

505
00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,385
My first business lesson.

506
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,776
Salonika is in German hands.

507
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,976
This was the headquarters
of the Allies.

508
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,696
Now, this important port has been
conquered by our troops

509
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,992
after four and a half days.

510
00:25:21,947 --> 00:25:23,525
During the war,

511
00:25:23,853 --> 00:25:26,607
my uncle came to Athens

512
00:25:26,632 --> 00:25:28,415
to take me to Thessaloniki

513
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,009
so we can all be together,
all the family.

514
00:25:31,189 --> 00:25:34,896
Yaya, Mama Yulia, said,
"No, you can't take her."

515
00:25:35,322 --> 00:25:38,158
He said, "Yes. I'm her brother."

516
00:25:38,183 --> 00:25:39,759
But she told him,

517
00:25:39,784 --> 00:25:43,975
"Your sister told me not to give
Paulette to anyone.

518
00:25:45,341 --> 00:25:47,376
"Even if my mother
comes out of the grave,

519
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,017
you don't give her to her."

520
00:25:52,199 --> 00:25:56,375
As most Sephardic Jews
did in Salonika,

521
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,216
they wanted the families
to stay together.

522
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,146
But it saved Paulette's life
that they weren't together.

523
00:26:04,952 --> 00:26:07,259
The Germans were rounding up

524
00:26:07,794 --> 00:26:10,490
all the Jews in Salonika

525
00:26:10,608 --> 00:26:13,704
and sending them off
to Auschwitz.

526
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,884
They took them all.

527
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:19,115
My aunts, my uncles,
these friends of my mother.

528
00:26:23,517 --> 00:26:26,216
I know that, in Athens,

529
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,936
the way that the Jewish people
were treated

530
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,616
was a lot different
than it was in Salonika,

531
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,736
because the clergy of
the Greek Orthodox Church

532
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,256
was very into trying
to help the Jews

533
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,896
and trying to keep them
away from the Germans.

534
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,616
My Greek mother told me,
she said to me,

535
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,456
"You're a very lucky person.

536
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,176
"You have two mothers,

537
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,816
one who's away and she's going
to come and get you, and me."

538
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,976
You know, if Chelly hadn't

539
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,456
picked that family
in particular,

540
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,736
you know, who knows what
would have happened?

541
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,696
I'm sure there
are many other good,

542
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,736
righteous Gentiles in Greece,

543
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,416
of course,
but they risked their lives.

544
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,216
They were a wonderful family,
obviously,

545
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,216
who made very great sacrifices

546
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,976
and put their own lives in danger

547
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,916
to have Paulette living there
as an openly hidden child.

548
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,940
Everybody
knew that I was Jewish.

549
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,800
That I was Jewish,

550
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,908
everyone knew it.

551
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,456
They also loved
this family very much

552
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,416
because she was
a wonderful lady,

553
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,168
and I guess they protected her.

554
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,776
And we were scared, because

555
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,776
if the Germans came,

556
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,936
they were not going to take me;

557
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,896
they were going to
take everybody.

558
00:28:01,389 --> 00:28:04,533
You had to protect yourself
and everybody else,

559
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,506
because you say
one wrong word...

560
00:28:08,411 --> 00:28:10,971
And everybody
was paranoid, you know?

561
00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:14,407
"Where did you find the meat?
Where'd you find the olive oil?"

562
00:28:14,586 --> 00:28:16,176
There was no food.

563
00:28:16,201 --> 00:28:19,204
I mean, it wasn't only the Jews
that suffered during the war.

564
00:28:19,229 --> 00:28:22,376
There was starvation in Athens.
It was incredible.

565
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,135
It was terrible. It was awful.

566
00:28:28,037 --> 00:28:29,831
Chelly was very worried about

567
00:28:29,856 --> 00:28:32,229
everything
that was going on in Greece.

568
00:28:35,377 --> 00:28:36,976
She was making money

569
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,237
at the refreshment stand
and sending the money to Greece,

570
00:28:40,533 --> 00:28:44,333
to buy pieces of newsreel
footage and cultural footage

571
00:28:44,358 --> 00:28:46,575
to put together
a film about Greece

572
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,256
in order to raise money,

573
00:28:48,281 --> 00:28:51,096
to help the Greek War effort
against the Germans.

574
00:28:51,121 --> 00:28:52,998
So, that was
Greece on the March.

575
00:28:57,901 --> 00:29:00,120
She went to play her film

576
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,854
at the Cameo Theater,
which was called the Squire.

577
00:29:03,879 --> 00:29:07,981
So, she needed somebody
with the projector.

578
00:29:08,006 --> 00:29:09,936
Rex was a film projectionist

579
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,456
who came from a big
theatrical family in England.

580
00:29:12,846 --> 00:29:15,336
And they were also Jewish,

581
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,256
but they never told anyone

582
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,725
because there was
very little work for Jews.

583
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,389
So, they changed
their name to Wilson

584
00:29:24,414 --> 00:29:27,651
and got work theatrically.

585
00:29:27,931 --> 00:29:30,375
He was very clever, technically.

586
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,166
He knew cameras.
He knew projectors.

587
00:29:33,346 --> 00:29:35,901
And he was fascinated by her.

588
00:29:35,926 --> 00:29:37,378
I don't know why, but he was.

589
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,816
This Rex Wilson was in love with me,
we got married.

590
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,136
The guy was coming every night
and lighting my cigarettes.

591
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,448
He gave me cigarettes.

592
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,556
So I married him.

593
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,456
It was nice, he was providing
me with cigarettes.

594
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,976
My father was very romantic.

595
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,204
Love at first sight.
He loved her right away.

596
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,936
My mother
didn't speak English then,

597
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,456
and my dad never spoke
any other language,

598
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,816
except for English.

599
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,040
They did not communicate.

600
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,896
Their relationship
was very tumultuous.

601
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,816
There were tremendous fights.

602
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,696
My mother threw
the mattress out of the window.

603
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,936
The neighbors
would call the police

604
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,524
because she threw every dish
in the house and glass at him.

605
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,776
She went to work for
the Hudson Shipping Company,

606
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,176
and she was the liaison

607
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,312
for the war effort in Greece.

608
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,156
And I sent $100,000 in
merchandise.

609
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,696
Rice, sugar,
flour and everything else.

610
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,336
She was very nervous about
the children, their safety.

611
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,496
And she was trying to get
information from the Red Cross,

612
00:31:04,651 --> 00:31:07,547
which she got some little bits
and pieces of information

613
00:31:07,572 --> 00:31:09,208
about how they were doing.

614
00:31:09,896 --> 00:31:13,256
Daniel,
he was stuck in Solanika.

615
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,333
Somebody helped him and hid him.

616
00:31:19,325 --> 00:31:22,333
The war ended. The British came.

617
00:31:24,652 --> 00:31:28,508
Everybody was happy.

618
00:31:28,532 --> 00:31:31,068
And then, finally, we got
a letter from my mother.

619
00:31:31,092 --> 00:31:34,628
I found out that
she was in America

620
00:31:34,652 --> 00:31:38,788
and that
she was coming to take me.

621
00:31:38,812 --> 00:31:42,024
She was going to go and get
my brother first in Palestine.

622
00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:57,708
My grandmother was
going to Israel to get Daniel,

623
00:31:57,732 --> 00:32:00,268
who had left Greece
after the war

624
00:32:00,292 --> 00:32:02,844
and had joined forces in Israel.

625
00:32:04,892 --> 00:32:06,668
He was in a kibbutz.

626
00:32:06,692 --> 00:32:07,828
And then,
he went to the Haganah.

627
00:32:07,852 --> 00:32:09,457
He went to the army.

628
00:32:09,482 --> 00:32:11,148
Of course,
he didn't like it there.

629
00:32:11,172 --> 00:32:12,788
He was miserable, miserable.

630
00:32:12,812 --> 00:32:16,308
My grandmother went to
Israel, again bribed someone.

631
00:32:16,332 --> 00:32:19,348
There was always a bribe
involved to bring him back,

632
00:32:19,372 --> 00:32:21,868
because once you join the army,
you couldn't just leave.

633
00:32:21,892 --> 00:32:24,400
So, she had to do
some negotiations.

634
00:32:27,252 --> 00:32:30,428
So, she got
on a boat and she got him in,

635
00:32:30,452 --> 00:32:31,628
and she said to him,

636
00:32:31,652 --> 00:32:33,828
"Now, we're going to Athens.

637
00:32:33,852 --> 00:32:35,908
"You're going to stay
in your cabin.

638
00:32:35,932 --> 00:32:38,828
You don't come out from
the cabin."

639
00:32:38,852 --> 00:32:42,900
I had Dino stolen from Israel.

640
00:32:43,332 --> 00:32:44,948
So I said to Dino,
"Stay in the cabin."

641
00:32:44,972 --> 00:32:46,788
So I got out of the boat.

642
00:32:46,812 --> 00:32:50,024
I went to Mama Yulia.
Paulette was there.

643
00:32:50,332 --> 00:32:54,108
And the poor kids, I kissed them.

644
00:32:54,132 --> 00:32:57,188
And I say, "You want some money
for a taxi to go home?"

645
00:32:57,212 --> 00:33:00,748
Because I have a big trunk...

646
00:33:00,772 --> 00:33:02,108
With two feet.

647
00:33:02,132 --> 00:33:03,908
With legs.

648
00:33:03,932 --> 00:33:08,024
"Let me get it out and
I'll come home."

649
00:33:08,292 --> 00:33:10,268
And where is Dino?

650
00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:13,148
He's telling the man
who's watching on the boat,

651
00:33:13,172 --> 00:33:19,388
"My mother brought me from Israel,
and is going to take me to America."

652
00:33:19,412 --> 00:33:21,428
"You were on the boat?" "Yeah."

653
00:33:21,452 --> 00:33:23,948
They grabbed him
to take him to Immigration!

654
00:33:23,972 --> 00:33:25,788
I go to Immigration and I say,

655
00:33:25,812 --> 00:33:28,788
"You come with me,
we'll go to the mayor of Athens."

656
00:33:28,812 --> 00:33:31,268
So I took the two people there
by car.

657
00:33:31,292 --> 00:33:33,948
My car with a chauffeur
was waiting.

658
00:33:33,972 --> 00:33:37,188
And I go to Kotzias.

659
00:33:37,212 --> 00:33:39,368
"Oh, Chelly!"

660
00:33:40,252 --> 00:33:43,628
So I tell the story of
what happened to Dino

661
00:33:43,652 --> 00:33:46,748
and the officers were crying.
Everybody was crying.

662
00:33:46,772 --> 00:33:48,228
And that's it! Finished!

663
00:33:48,252 --> 00:33:51,468
In the meantime,
Dino is already on the boat.

664
00:33:51,492 --> 00:33:53,062
I let him go!

665
00:33:53,087 --> 00:33:54,609
Goodbye, Dino!

666
00:33:54,831 --> 00:33:57,327
A friend of mine had a ship.

667
00:33:57,352 --> 00:34:00,179
It cost me $1,000
to put him downstairs.

668
00:34:02,256 --> 00:34:06,272
This is the day before
I left to come to America.

669
00:34:06,297 --> 00:34:07,679
- This one?
- Yes.

670
00:34:07,704 --> 00:34:09,527
- You see this dress?
- Yeah.

671
00:34:09,552 --> 00:34:12,088
This dress was
made out of a parachute.

672
00:34:12,113 --> 00:34:13,730
Wow.

673
00:34:15,342 --> 00:34:17,968
I was getting ready
to go to America,

674
00:34:17,993 --> 00:34:20,249
and that was a big thing.

675
00:34:20,606 --> 00:34:23,062
And all my friends were,
"Oh, my God.

676
00:34:23,148 --> 00:34:25,496
You're going to go to America?
What are you going to do?"

677
00:34:25,683 --> 00:34:28,820
I used to say to them,
"I'm going to be a movie star."

678
00:34:29,024 --> 00:34:32,226
My mother came, so she can
arrange about the papers,

679
00:34:32,251 --> 00:34:34,667
the passports,
when I'm going to leave,

680
00:34:34,692 --> 00:34:36,788
what ship am I going to be in.

681
00:34:37,355 --> 00:34:40,748
I was 12-and-a-half years old.
I didn't speak English.

682
00:34:40,772 --> 00:34:42,988
But when I came
to the United States,

683
00:34:43,012 --> 00:34:45,388
she didn't come with me;
I came by myself.

684
00:34:46,812 --> 00:34:50,429
When I came on the ship,
everybody, you know,

685
00:34:50,454 --> 00:34:53,042
we got up to see
the Statue of Liberty.

686
00:34:54,517 --> 00:34:58,312
And I looked down and
I see all these yellow cars,

687
00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:01,868
and I said, "Oh, in America,
they have yellow cars."

688
00:35:01,892 --> 00:35:03,696
It was the taxis.

689
00:35:05,224 --> 00:35:07,714
Nobody explained
anything to you.

690
00:35:08,165 --> 00:35:10,587
And poor Bondi was...
They were telling her,

691
00:35:10,612 --> 00:35:12,428
"Paulette is coming.
Paulette is coming."

692
00:35:12,452 --> 00:35:14,068
What did she know
who Paulette was?

693
00:35:14,092 --> 00:35:15,828
And she was waiting
for me to come.

694
00:35:15,852 --> 00:35:20,252
She was very young.
Beautiful, beautiful child.

695
00:35:21,332 --> 00:35:23,468
The best day of my life
was when Paulette came.

696
00:35:23,492 --> 00:35:27,788
I was only four,

697
00:35:27,812 --> 00:35:31,024
but I just loved her right away.

698
00:35:33,772 --> 00:35:35,748
I tried to teach Bondi
to speak Greek.

699
00:35:35,772 --> 00:35:37,828
Paulette would
teach me some Greek

700
00:35:37,852 --> 00:35:39,468
and I would teach
her some English.

701
00:35:39,492 --> 00:35:40,908
We used to go... Eye,

702
00:35:40,932 --> 00:35:42,068
nose,

703
00:35:42,092 --> 00:35:43,268
mouth,

704
00:35:43,292 --> 00:35:44,308
hair.

705
00:35:44,332 --> 00:35:45,788
And I would say
the English word.

706
00:35:45,812 --> 00:35:47,908
She would say the Greek word.

707
00:35:47,932 --> 00:35:49,188
She would talk to me constantly.

708
00:35:49,212 --> 00:35:50,748
I didn't know
what she was saying.

709
00:35:50,772 --> 00:35:54,308
She was the most adorable child.

710
00:35:54,332 --> 00:35:55,948
But it was
very difficult for me.

711
00:35:55,972 --> 00:35:57,348
I didn't want to be here.

712
00:35:57,372 --> 00:36:00,370
I never unpacked
my bag for months.

713
00:36:00,395 --> 00:36:04,229
My mother, she understood
where I came from

714
00:36:05,151 --> 00:36:08,676
and she wanted me

715
00:36:08,701 --> 00:36:12,169
to be here, to become

716
00:36:13,012 --> 00:36:14,428
American.

717
00:36:15,165 --> 00:36:16,747
She took two chairs,

718
00:36:16,772 --> 00:36:19,280
and she says to me, "This is..."

719
00:36:19,321 --> 00:36:22,301
"This is Greece and this is America."

720
00:36:23,124 --> 00:36:27,620
If you want to be in Greece,
sit in this chair.

721
00:36:27,645 --> 00:36:30,701
If you want to be in America,
sit in this one.

722
00:36:30,726 --> 00:36:32,907
"You can't sit in both chairs."

723
00:36:33,442 --> 00:36:38,168
"If you can make it five years,
you'll never want to go back."

724
00:36:42,292 --> 00:36:44,028
- I love this picture.
- Oh, this is the best.

725
00:36:44,052 --> 00:36:46,268
That picture is so wonderful.

726
00:36:46,292 --> 00:36:47,948
This is the best.
This is classic.

727
00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:50,297
Her bathing suit didn't
close up. She didn't care.

728
00:36:50,322 --> 00:36:51,738
Oh, my God.

729
00:36:52,852 --> 00:36:54,428
I don't think my mother

730
00:36:54,452 --> 00:36:57,294
ever went back
to Thessaloniki, never.

731
00:36:57,326 --> 00:36:59,915
It only held
bad memories for her,

732
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:02,067
very bad memories,

733
00:37:03,972 --> 00:37:05,801
nothing but loss.

734
00:37:06,805 --> 00:37:08,657
Only 5%

735
00:37:08,682 --> 00:37:12,387
of the Jewish population
survived.

736
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,508
To this day, I don't know what
happened to my mother's mother.

737
00:37:19,602 --> 00:37:22,738
One of the last times
I saw my mother at home,

738
00:37:23,052 --> 00:37:25,228
she looked very
desolate, you know?

739
00:37:25,252 --> 00:37:27,428
And I said to her,
"Mother, what's wrong?"

740
00:37:27,452 --> 00:37:28,748
She wouldn't tell me.

741
00:37:28,772 --> 00:37:30,268
I said, "Tell me.
Maybe I can help you."

742
00:37:30,292 --> 00:37:34,348
Because she would
always say she could help me

743
00:37:34,372 --> 00:37:37,700
or anybody with whatever
problems that they would have.

744
00:37:37,725 --> 00:37:39,348
And, um...

745
00:37:40,895 --> 00:37:42,351
And she said...

746
00:37:42,376 --> 00:37:44,711
"I want to see my sister."

747
00:37:48,479 --> 00:37:51,292
This was so many years later.

748
00:37:52,347 --> 00:37:55,913
And I said, "No, you're right.
I can't help you."

749
00:37:56,695 --> 00:38:00,116
So, then she said, she went,

750
00:38:00,141 --> 00:38:04,921
"Hmm. Can you bring me
a Nazi, so I can shoot him?"

751
00:38:07,267 --> 00:38:10,147
My sister has said
that there was a time

752
00:38:10,172 --> 00:38:13,268
when you could get reparations,
but my mother didn't want it

753
00:38:13,292 --> 00:38:14,788
because she said
it was blood money.

754
00:38:14,812 --> 00:38:17,308
She didn't want it
because she had paid too dear

755
00:38:17,332 --> 00:38:21,068
for that money,
and she wouldn't take it.

756
00:38:21,092 --> 00:38:24,628
I think my mother did have

757
00:38:24,652 --> 00:38:27,308
survivor's guilt.

758
00:38:27,332 --> 00:38:30,868
This picture, I have to
know who these people are.

759
00:38:30,892 --> 00:38:32,988
I'm never going
to find out, am I?

760
00:38:33,012 --> 00:38:34,948
I have no idea, Bondi.

761
00:38:34,972 --> 00:38:37,988
I wonder if I showed pictures
to everybody in Salonika,

762
00:38:38,012 --> 00:38:40,028
if somebody might
remember somebody.

763
00:38:40,052 --> 00:38:41,668
They're all dead, Bondi.

764
00:38:41,692 --> 00:38:43,760
I know.

765
00:38:48,172 --> 00:38:50,508
My mother's aunt Allegra

766
00:38:50,532 --> 00:38:55,188
left Salonika in 1932
to go to France.

767
00:38:55,266 --> 00:38:56,828
At the end of the war,

768
00:38:56,852 --> 00:39:00,988
my mother heard from Allegra
that she had survived.

769
00:39:01,539 --> 00:39:05,788
And the letter that
my mother responded with

770
00:39:05,812 --> 00:39:09,100
was found in Allegra's papers.

771
00:39:09,125 --> 00:39:13,348
It is written in Ladino.
Judeo-Spanish.

772
00:39:14,111 --> 00:39:16,498
"My dearest Allegra.

773
00:39:17,132 --> 00:39:19,908
"Oh, Allegra, just seeing
your name on the envelope

774
00:39:19,932 --> 00:39:21,868
"made my heart skip a beat.

775
00:39:21,892 --> 00:39:24,148
"Adding one more person
to the list of survivors

776
00:39:24,172 --> 00:39:26,388
"fills my heart with joy.

777
00:39:26,992 --> 00:39:30,188
"I can't even begin to describe
the anguish I suffered

778
00:39:30,212 --> 00:39:32,664
"thinking of each
and every one of you.

779
00:39:33,772 --> 00:39:36,468
"I spent entire nights
without sleeping

780
00:39:36,492 --> 00:39:37,898
"and days without eating.

781
00:39:38,652 --> 00:39:41,828
"I can assure you that
if it wasn't for my husband,

782
00:39:41,852 --> 00:39:46,520
whom I love dearly, I would've
ended up in an insane asylum."

783
00:39:57,092 --> 00:40:00,974
My mother always used the
expression "God bless America."

784
00:40:01,067 --> 00:40:03,698
She truly felt it.

785
00:40:04,364 --> 00:40:06,387
She really did
love this country,

786
00:40:06,412 --> 00:40:09,800
and she loved, I guess,
the freedom that she had here.

787
00:40:13,532 --> 00:40:16,548
And there were always
strangers living with us

788
00:40:16,572 --> 00:40:18,428
that she would pick up from
I don't know where.

789
00:40:18,452 --> 00:40:20,348
But I remember waking up

790
00:40:20,372 --> 00:40:23,108
and walking over people
sleeping in the dining room

791
00:40:23,132 --> 00:40:27,228
and under the table, over,
on top of the table,

792
00:40:27,252 --> 00:40:30,468
that she would just pick up
that jumped boat

793
00:40:30,492 --> 00:40:32,108
and wanted to stay here,

794
00:40:32,132 --> 00:40:34,188
and she was going to
help them get their papers,

795
00:40:34,212 --> 00:40:36,108
and she did.

796
00:40:36,132 --> 00:40:39,068
Her main thing was
to support the Greek people.

797
00:40:39,092 --> 00:40:43,028
She played Greek films
on weekends.

798
00:40:43,052 --> 00:40:46,788
She had all the people
in Astoria and Queens,

799
00:40:46,812 --> 00:40:49,748
they would come in and see
the films booked into the Cameo.

800
00:40:49,772 --> 00:40:53,380
They also played at the Tivoli.

801
00:40:55,172 --> 00:40:57,788
For us, back then,
to work on Sunday was a sin.

802
00:40:57,812 --> 00:41:00,748
Like, you know, we just
had the Greek mentality.

803
00:41:00,772 --> 00:41:02,346
You never work on Sunday.

804
00:41:02,438 --> 00:41:04,565
And we used to go to the movies,

805
00:41:05,489 --> 00:41:08,535
but she would bring
all these nice films.

806
00:41:11,363 --> 00:41:13,477
She certainly knew
who was doing what

807
00:41:13,502 --> 00:41:15,749
and who had the assets,
and all of

808
00:41:15,774 --> 00:41:18,243
the big Greek producers
and distributors knew her

809
00:41:18,268 --> 00:41:20,395
and they would ship films
to her.

810
00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:23,790
All the good names,
she was on it.

811
00:41:28,652 --> 00:41:31,160
And always a comedy and a sad.

812
00:41:41,132 --> 00:41:44,168
It wasn't making
a whole lot of money.

813
00:41:46,252 --> 00:41:48,308
A few people had suggested,
"Chelly, why don't you try

814
00:41:48,332 --> 00:41:51,108
these other films?"

815
00:41:51,132 --> 00:41:55,068
So, she got a few films and,
all of a sudden,

816
00:41:55,092 --> 00:41:57,380
the money came rolling in.
"This is good!"

817
00:42:01,864 --> 00:42:04,268
A lot of theaters were driven
into having a product

818
00:42:04,292 --> 00:42:07,268
that they could buy
reasonably, if not cheap,

819
00:42:07,292 --> 00:42:10,348
and get people to see, which was
a very good audience.

820
00:42:10,372 --> 00:42:12,028
You didn't need
a lot of matrons.

821
00:42:12,052 --> 00:42:14,508
They didn't go to eat candy
and popcorn and stuff.

822
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,188
So, you had a very good audience

823
00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:19,388
who paid a higher price than
the general ticket admission.

824
00:42:19,412 --> 00:42:22,628
She was very good
at recognizing opportunities

825
00:42:22,652 --> 00:42:23,840
and taking advantage of them.

826
00:42:26,292 --> 00:42:28,316
Oh!

827
00:42:32,452 --> 00:42:35,532
Chelly was the first person
we ever sold a movie to.

828
00:42:36,692 --> 00:42:39,908
It was the summer of 1965.

829
00:42:39,932 --> 00:42:41,908
I was selling a movie
that I had invested in.

830
00:42:41,932 --> 00:42:44,348
The title was Flesh and Lace,

831
00:42:44,372 --> 00:42:46,668
which, in those days,
was an adult film,

832
00:42:46,692 --> 00:42:50,668
which today could play
regular TV in the afternoon.

833
00:42:50,692 --> 00:42:52,068
Who is she?

834
00:42:52,092 --> 00:42:54,148
Beverly Hill, my roommate.

835
00:42:54,172 --> 00:42:56,388
It had one flash
scene of a naked woman

836
00:42:56,412 --> 00:42:58,708
on a bed on her stomach,

837
00:42:58,732 --> 00:43:02,788
and another scene of a
nightclub with a girl dancing.

838
00:43:02,812 --> 00:43:04,188
It was just a nice story.

839
00:43:04,212 --> 00:43:06,468
Get out of here.

840
00:43:06,492 --> 00:43:08,348
Joanie, please.

841
00:43:08,372 --> 00:43:11,496
I said, get out of my sight!

842
00:43:14,252 --> 00:43:17,468
We needed to play it in New York
and Chelly had a theater.

843
00:43:17,492 --> 00:43:20,028
We made an
arrangement with Chelly,

844
00:43:20,052 --> 00:43:23,108
where the first $4,500
of receipts would go to Chelly,

845
00:43:23,132 --> 00:43:26,988
and then, there was $600
advertising expense,

846
00:43:27,012 --> 00:43:30,148
and that would be taken off
the top before the $4,500.

847
00:43:30,172 --> 00:43:32,988
And then, we were to get 90%
of everything above that

848
00:43:33,012 --> 00:43:34,628
and she would
get 10% above that.

849
00:43:34,652 --> 00:43:39,028
Well, about two weeks before
the play date, she said,

850
00:43:39,052 --> 00:43:42,948
"We need to raise the
advertising $400 more."

851
00:43:42,972 --> 00:43:45,388
And then, we got another call
a week before to raise it.

852
00:43:45,412 --> 00:43:48,748
It wound up being $6,000
before we got any money.

853
00:43:48,772 --> 00:43:51,828
What we didn't know because we
didn't have her experience was,

854
00:43:51,852 --> 00:43:54,868
we were not just allowing her
to take the first $4,500

855
00:43:54,892 --> 00:43:58,508
or the first $6,000;
we were guaranteeing it.

856
00:43:58,532 --> 00:44:01,908
And then, we found out
before the movie opened

857
00:44:01,932 --> 00:44:04,628
that the theater
never did $6,000,

858
00:44:04,652 --> 00:44:06,468
which would be a very typical
Chelly kind of deal.

859
00:44:06,492 --> 00:44:08,428
But as luck would have it,

860
00:44:08,452 --> 00:44:11,308
in the first week,
the film did $10,000,

861
00:44:11,332 --> 00:44:14,348
which was
quite an accomplishment.

862
00:44:14,372 --> 00:44:16,988
We broke the
theater house record,

863
00:44:17,012 --> 00:44:19,908
and people were coming over
and patting us on the back.

864
00:44:19,932 --> 00:44:21,468
It was good for her, too,

865
00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:24,628
because it established
a new paradigm for her theater.

866
00:44:24,652 --> 00:44:26,668
That was indecent.

867
00:44:26,692 --> 00:44:30,308
Honey, that's what I am.
Indecent.

868
00:44:30,771 --> 00:44:32,894
And that's what
I've always been.

869
00:44:40,852 --> 00:44:44,028
You have to understand, in 1965,

870
00:44:44,052 --> 00:44:45,812
the mores
of America were changing.

871
00:44:49,452 --> 00:44:51,228
Obviously, there was a demand,

872
00:44:51,252 --> 00:44:52,908
because if there
wasn't a demand,

873
00:44:52,932 --> 00:44:55,468
it would not
have been successful,

874
00:44:55,492 --> 00:44:58,548
and it was extremely
successful, so...

875
00:44:58,572 --> 00:45:01,548
It was a forbidden
fruit for many years,

876
00:45:01,572 --> 00:45:05,468
and now it was available,
and people wanted to see it.

877
00:45:05,492 --> 00:45:07,948
She made a lot of money,

878
00:45:07,972 --> 00:45:11,148
and she had very many
people working for her

879
00:45:11,172 --> 00:45:14,588
who stayed in the apartment
and they took care of her.

880
00:45:14,612 --> 00:45:16,268
Plus they were cooks.

881
00:45:16,292 --> 00:45:18,868
You know, they would clean
the apartment, all women.

882
00:45:18,892 --> 00:45:21,068
One of them,
as I recall, was Machi,

883
00:45:21,092 --> 00:45:25,748
and she would come up with
shopping bags full of cash.

884
00:45:25,772 --> 00:45:27,988
Shopping bags.

885
00:45:28,012 --> 00:45:32,748
As the future came upon us,
Chelly purchased theaters.

886
00:45:33,151 --> 00:45:35,068
I know one of them,
on Eighth Avenue,

887
00:45:35,092 --> 00:45:37,793
was the Eros,
and then the Venus.

888
00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:40,655
She named her theaters
after Greek gods, okay?

889
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,424
It was about making money, honey.
Making money.

890
00:45:43,449 --> 00:45:47,827
She used to have Friday night
poker games at her apartment.

891
00:45:47,852 --> 00:45:49,588
So, you go into this, like,

892
00:45:49,613 --> 00:45:52,656
seedy theater lobby
on Eighth Avenue,

893
00:45:52,852 --> 00:45:56,588
and you go in, very steep
stairway that you had to go up.

894
00:45:56,612 --> 00:45:59,308
And the place is
locked like a fortress,

895
00:45:59,332 --> 00:46:01,788
like a steel door
with a thousand locks on it.

896
00:46:01,812 --> 00:46:06,548
And then, we get in and
it's, like, this hugely ornate,

897
00:46:06,572 --> 00:46:08,828
amazing apartment.

898
00:46:08,852 --> 00:46:10,828
There was a round table

899
00:46:10,852 --> 00:46:13,268
and there would be
little tables,

900
00:46:13,292 --> 00:46:15,788
so you could put your drink,
your coffee, your ashtray.

901
00:46:15,812 --> 00:46:17,668
Back then,
everybody would smoke.

902
00:46:17,692 --> 00:46:19,388
And she had the whole,

903
00:46:19,412 --> 00:46:22,268
like, little crew
of all the cool people.

904
00:46:22,292 --> 00:46:25,068
Jamie Gillis was there,

905
00:46:25,092 --> 00:46:27,708
Mickey Zaffarano,

906
00:46:27,732 --> 00:46:29,908
and Herb Nitke,

907
00:46:29,932 --> 00:46:32,188
and they would literally
play poker all night long.

908
00:46:32,212 --> 00:46:33,908
There would be money
all over the place.

909
00:46:33,932 --> 00:46:36,348
20s, 50s, 100s.

910
00:46:36,372 --> 00:46:38,868
Those games would...
You know, very high stakes

911
00:46:38,892 --> 00:46:42,428
and they would go on
sometimes for days.

912
00:46:42,452 --> 00:46:44,508
I'm sure a lot of
business went down.

913
00:46:44,532 --> 00:46:47,388
And, yeah, if Mickey was there,
he would pop in, I'm sure,

914
00:46:47,412 --> 00:46:48,927
to do a little business.

915
00:46:48,952 --> 00:46:51,888
Some of the stories I've heard,
she was involved with the Mafia.

916
00:46:51,913 --> 00:46:55,347
I think you had to be to be part
of the pornography industry

917
00:46:55,372 --> 00:46:57,548
in the '60s and '70s.

918
00:46:57,614 --> 00:46:58,824
Yeah.

919
00:47:00,844 --> 00:47:01,908
Yes.

920
00:47:01,932 --> 00:47:03,034
They protected us.

921
00:47:03,059 --> 00:47:06,900
At the poker games, she was
almost always the only woman,

922
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:09,864
and she sat at the
head of the table, always.

923
00:47:09,940 --> 00:47:13,333
The fact that Chelly
was able to hold her own

924
00:47:13,358 --> 00:47:15,894
in that world of all those guys

925
00:47:15,919 --> 00:47:18,147
who are all sharks
in one way or another,

926
00:47:18,172 --> 00:47:20,028
is beyond commendable.

927
00:47:20,052 --> 00:47:21,708
I mean, what a woman.

928
00:47:21,732 --> 00:47:23,428
It was all about
the fun of the deal.

929
00:47:23,452 --> 00:47:25,520
It was all about the fun
of gambling.

930
00:47:27,631 --> 00:47:29,667
The one thing
I learned about gamblers,

931
00:47:29,692 --> 00:47:31,679
having spent a lot
of time with them,

932
00:47:31,704 --> 00:47:33,280
they don't actually care
about winning.

933
00:47:33,305 --> 00:47:35,761
I mean, they care about
winning in the moment,

934
00:47:35,786 --> 00:47:38,610
but they mostly just
want to keep gambling.

935
00:47:38,635 --> 00:47:42,187
She loved people who knew how to
talk, and get things done,

936
00:47:42,212 --> 00:47:44,868
and sneak behind things,
and go around things,

937
00:47:44,892 --> 00:47:48,308
and she just adored
people like that.

938
00:47:48,332 --> 00:47:51,068
And unfortunately, she got
involved with a few of them

939
00:47:51,092 --> 00:47:53,908
and got taken a bit
from time to time,

940
00:47:53,932 --> 00:47:55,468
because they were good at it.

941
00:47:55,492 --> 00:47:57,508
It was a lot of
bar booth places.

942
00:47:57,532 --> 00:48:00,148
"Bar booth" means
the place to play dice.

943
00:48:00,172 --> 00:48:03,908
She would start going
over there very often,

944
00:48:03,932 --> 00:48:05,948
and she lost a lot of money,
I believe.

945
00:48:05,972 --> 00:48:08,744
I heard from my boss,
Petrópolis...

946
00:48:09,212 --> 00:48:11,588
"They fleeced her yesterday."

947
00:48:12,132 --> 00:48:13,548
"We took a couple hundred
thousand dollars

948
00:48:13,572 --> 00:48:15,588
or maybe more, maybe more."

949
00:48:15,612 --> 00:48:18,828
But she wouldn't give up because
whatever she lost, in one week,

950
00:48:18,852 --> 00:48:20,788
she would get it back.

951
00:48:20,812 --> 00:48:24,348
Not from the gambling,
but from the business she had.

952
00:48:24,372 --> 00:48:27,628
No matter how much she lose,
everything would come back.

953
00:48:32,892 --> 00:48:36,348
The porn industry
focused on 42nd Street

954
00:48:36,372 --> 00:48:37,828
because that's where
the theaters were.

955
00:48:37,852 --> 00:48:39,948
These big theaters,
huge theaters,

956
00:48:39,972 --> 00:48:43,308
many of them
not having enough business.

957
00:48:43,332 --> 00:48:45,868
And so, they would
eventually move to porn,

958
00:48:45,892 --> 00:48:47,566
which was the most lucrative.

959
00:48:47,694 --> 00:48:48,988
In the early days,

960
00:48:49,012 --> 00:48:52,108
because there was no real
porn industry producing films

961
00:48:52,132 --> 00:48:56,619
on a regular basis, the theaters
ended up producing porn as well.

962
00:49:00,892 --> 00:49:04,508
My mother and her partner
then, who was Lee Pomeranz,

963
00:49:04,532 --> 00:49:06,512
formed Chellee Films.

964
00:49:09,092 --> 00:49:12,548
She probably thought about,
well, I'll make films.

965
00:49:12,572 --> 00:49:14,708
I have a theater to play them.
And that, you know,

966
00:49:14,732 --> 00:49:17,548
she thought this would be
a good business venture.

967
00:49:17,572 --> 00:49:20,298
This is the story
of a silk-stocking industry.

968
00:49:20,323 --> 00:49:23,219
An industry of perversion.

969
00:49:23,861 --> 00:49:25,773
Scarf of Mist,

970
00:49:25,798 --> 00:49:29,107
Thigh of Satin is different.

971
00:49:29,209 --> 00:49:32,265
And then, ultimately,
she distributed them as well.

972
00:49:32,290 --> 00:49:35,106
So, it was, you know,
like they did in Hollywood,

973
00:49:35,131 --> 00:49:38,227
before it was broken up,
where you own the theater,

974
00:49:38,252 --> 00:49:40,588
you produced the film,
and you distributed the film.

975
00:49:40,612 --> 00:49:42,068
We made a few films

976
00:49:42,092 --> 00:49:45,480
for them when I wasn't
married to Bondi.

977
00:49:49,692 --> 00:49:51,388
The way I got into the business

978
00:49:51,412 --> 00:49:53,788
was a film called
Scare Their Pants Off.

979
00:49:53,812 --> 00:49:55,908
On weekends,

980
00:49:55,932 --> 00:49:58,880
for three weekends,
we made Scare Their Pants Off.

981
00:50:01,052 --> 00:50:04,836
A film with a little nudity,
but some horror also.

982
00:50:07,572 --> 00:50:10,548
It was a lot like
off-off-Broadway theater.

983
00:50:10,572 --> 00:50:13,428
Please don't hurt me.
I keep telling you.

984
00:50:13,452 --> 00:50:16,068
I know what you
keep telling you me!

985
00:50:16,092 --> 00:50:19,548
You keep telling me
we got the wrong girl

986
00:50:19,572 --> 00:50:22,608
and that damn silly nonsense!

987
00:50:25,452 --> 00:50:27,628
Everybody sort of
hoop-skipping along

988
00:50:27,652 --> 00:50:29,808
and having a good time
and making these films.

989
00:50:32,732 --> 00:50:35,028
They didn't pay an awful lot.

990
00:50:35,052 --> 00:50:37,548
But if you made enough of them,
you made a living,

991
00:50:37,572 --> 00:50:39,148
and there were
some good people in it.

992
00:50:39,172 --> 00:50:40,748
Are we all set up
for that party?

993
00:50:40,772 --> 00:50:43,388
Party? Since when did
you all get so civilized?

994
00:50:43,412 --> 00:50:44,805
You mean orgy.

995
00:50:44,830 --> 00:50:48,399
You had to have actors,
so you couldn't show sex.

996
00:50:48,424 --> 00:50:51,107
So, you had to have people
who could act like

997
00:50:51,132 --> 00:50:53,388
the sex was
taking place and real.

998
00:50:53,412 --> 00:50:55,571
And so, it meant acting.

999
00:50:57,551 --> 00:50:59,664
It was fairly easy to cast.

1000
00:51:00,470 --> 00:51:02,427
What usually happened is

1001
00:51:02,452 --> 00:51:05,839
there were people
who were around as models.

1002
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,834
Musicians,

1003
00:51:08,325 --> 00:51:11,863
actors, various kinds
of entertainers

1004
00:51:11,888 --> 00:51:13,664
who were not doing well,

1005
00:51:13,689 --> 00:51:15,626
and so, they would do porn
for a little extra money.

1006
00:51:15,650 --> 00:51:18,643
What I want now is
some of your ass, all right?

1007
00:51:18,668 --> 00:51:20,339
You're always after my ass.

1008
00:51:21,630 --> 00:51:24,434
I want to fill up 40
feet of screen with your ass.

1009
00:51:25,508 --> 00:51:26,697
In the early days,

1010
00:51:26,722 --> 00:51:28,708
the nudity wasn't really
highly important,

1011
00:51:28,732 --> 00:51:30,748
and it was just basically
topless if it was.

1012
00:51:30,772 --> 00:51:32,560
But later on, it changed a lot.

1013
00:51:32,585 --> 00:51:34,361
It's an industry
that grew hair by hair,

1014
00:51:34,386 --> 00:51:35,842
one pubic hair at a time.

1015
00:51:35,881 --> 00:51:38,227
The public wanted
as much as they could see.

1016
00:51:38,252 --> 00:51:40,548
Every film had a little more
than the last film.

1017
00:51:40,572 --> 00:51:41,708
Baby...

1018
00:51:41,732 --> 00:51:42,748
You don't give yourself credit.

1019
00:51:42,772 --> 00:51:44,108
Baby, you're going overboard.

1020
00:51:44,132 --> 00:51:45,428
What do you think
I want you to do?

1021
00:51:45,452 --> 00:51:46,682
Sleep with the guy?

1022
00:51:47,492 --> 00:51:49,268
Oh, wow.

1023
00:51:49,292 --> 00:51:50,708
Honey, you're crazy.

1024
00:51:50,732 --> 00:51:53,428
Softcore porn evolved.

1025
00:51:53,452 --> 00:51:56,588
So at first, you had
what they called beaver,

1026
00:51:56,612 --> 00:51:59,028
which was just a female crotch.

1027
00:51:59,052 --> 00:52:00,988
And then, they moved
to pickle and beaver,

1028
00:52:01,012 --> 00:52:03,468
which was a penis
and female crotch.

1029
00:52:03,492 --> 00:52:04,868
And so, eventually,
hardcore emerged.

1030
00:52:04,892 --> 00:52:08,708
And so, you had penetration.

1031
00:52:08,732 --> 00:52:12,148
The industry exploded until
there was nothing left to see.

1032
00:52:12,172 --> 00:52:15,828
Hardcore pornography
really emerged in 1969,

1033
00:52:15,852 --> 00:52:17,472
almost, like, on the dot.

1034
00:52:18,892 --> 00:52:21,508
I've never seen
a film like this before.

1035
00:52:21,532 --> 00:52:23,248
Oh, it's different, all right.

1036
00:52:27,532 --> 00:52:30,628
Chellee was soft core.
Then after that,

1037
00:52:30,652 --> 00:52:32,708
it led to Variety Films,

1038
00:52:32,732 --> 00:52:36,308
and Variety Films
was Chelly and Bondi.

1039
00:52:36,332 --> 00:52:38,108
I didn't have
much to do with the productions.

1040
00:52:38,132 --> 00:52:39,868
I just did the distribution.

1041
00:52:39,892 --> 00:52:42,576
Variety was mostly hardcore.

1042
00:52:46,452 --> 00:52:48,348
You know, as I got older
and was a teenager,

1043
00:52:48,372 --> 00:52:51,268
I knew what pornography was.
It was conflicting.

1044
00:52:51,292 --> 00:52:52,748
Pornography
is a lie about women!

1045
00:52:52,772 --> 00:52:54,188
Why?

1046
00:52:54,212 --> 00:52:56,468
Pornography lies about women!

1047
00:52:56,492 --> 00:52:58,988
I thought of
Grandma Chelly as a feminist

1048
00:52:59,012 --> 00:53:00,868
earlier in her life.

1049
00:53:00,892 --> 00:53:02,508
The pictures and the information

1050
00:53:02,532 --> 00:53:03,828
that I knew about
her living in Greece,

1051
00:53:03,852 --> 00:53:05,868
owning a business,

1052
00:53:05,892 --> 00:53:07,308
smoking cigarettes,
wearing pants,

1053
00:53:07,332 --> 00:53:08,748
having short hair,

1054
00:53:08,772 --> 00:53:11,788
lent itself to the sort
of Simone de Beauvoir,

1055
00:53:11,812 --> 00:53:13,628
you know, idea of a feminist.

1056
00:53:13,652 --> 00:53:15,828
Then, when I went
to college, you know,

1057
00:53:15,852 --> 00:53:18,108
and I'm studying feminism,

1058
00:53:18,132 --> 00:53:22,028
and pornography is
the antithesis of feminism.

1059
00:53:22,052 --> 00:53:24,748
So, I thought of her
as perpetuating

1060
00:53:24,772 --> 00:53:29,388
a very destructive view
of men and women's bodies.

1061
00:53:29,412 --> 00:53:31,468
She never had any
compunctions about any of that.

1062
00:53:31,492 --> 00:53:33,948
Couldn't care less
about the content.

1063
00:53:33,972 --> 00:53:35,508
My mother would never apologize

1064
00:53:35,532 --> 00:53:38,028
for who she was or what she did

1065
00:53:38,052 --> 00:53:40,275
ever, ever, ever,

1066
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:42,199
even though
she grew up in a culture

1067
00:53:42,224 --> 00:53:46,135
where everything
that she was about was wrong.

1068
00:53:46,502 --> 00:53:47,998
Do you have a lot of friends?

1069
00:53:48,172 --> 00:53:49,828
No, I-I hate men.

1070
00:53:50,118 --> 00:53:51,228
What?

1071
00:53:51,253 --> 00:53:53,163
I can't stand
when a man touch me.

1072
00:53:53,258 --> 00:53:55,751
I knew she was gay.
Nobody ever said to me,

1073
00:53:55,776 --> 00:53:57,296
"Your grandmother's gay."

1074
00:54:00,399 --> 00:54:04,089
Or, "If she's gay, why is
she married to Rex Wilson?"

1075
00:54:04,114 --> 00:54:08,292
I mean, it was just assumed
that this was her lifestyle,

1076
00:54:08,431 --> 00:54:10,139
this is who she was.

1077
00:54:12,612 --> 00:54:14,636
Happy Pride Day, y'all!

1078
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:23,907
Today, you would say
she was completely out,

1079
00:54:23,932 --> 00:54:25,348
proud of who she is.

1080
00:54:25,372 --> 00:54:27,508
She'd never pretended
to be anybody other.

1081
00:54:27,532 --> 00:54:29,348
But when we were growing up,

1082
00:54:29,372 --> 00:54:32,948
you didn't talk as openly about
who's gay, who's not gay.

1083
00:54:32,972 --> 00:54:34,776
You know, she had many
gay male friends.

1084
00:54:37,412 --> 00:54:38,668
The first time

1085
00:54:38,692 --> 00:54:40,548
that anybody ever said
anything to me,

1086
00:54:40,572 --> 00:54:42,668
it was at a funeral.

1087
00:54:42,692 --> 00:54:45,188
A friend of mine was next
to me and she looks over

1088
00:54:45,212 --> 00:54:48,868
and she says to me, "I didn't
know your mother was gay."

1089
00:54:48,892 --> 00:54:51,308
And I said, "Hmm."

1090
00:54:51,332 --> 00:54:53,268
I guess I didn't know either,

1091
00:54:53,292 --> 00:54:55,828
or I didn't know that everybody
knew and I didn't know.

1092
00:54:55,852 --> 00:54:58,508
But I wasn't
even really aware of it

1093
00:54:58,532 --> 00:55:00,988
or I just didn't
want to see it, because

1094
00:55:01,012 --> 00:55:03,028
in those years that I grew up,

1095
00:55:03,052 --> 00:55:07,276
it was not something
that you accepted so easily.

1096
00:55:10,172 --> 00:55:11,388
Hi, ma!

1097
00:55:11,412 --> 00:55:12,508
Today, it's like, whatever.

1098
00:55:12,532 --> 00:55:14,188
The sky is blue. You're gay.

1099
00:55:14,212 --> 00:55:16,148
It's, like, no big deal.

1100
00:55:18,252 --> 00:55:22,388
Noni and Eva did live with us.

1101
00:55:22,412 --> 00:55:27,028
This was her other family.

1102
00:55:27,052 --> 00:55:29,828
Eva was the
opera singer from Greece.

1103
00:55:29,852 --> 00:55:33,508
Machi and Angela were friends

1104
00:55:33,532 --> 00:55:35,584
who came to live
with her at various times.

1105
00:55:35,609 --> 00:55:37,105
They were all gay.

1106
00:55:37,612 --> 00:55:39,868
They would clean,
they would cook,

1107
00:55:39,892 --> 00:55:41,788
and they were always there.

1108
00:55:41,812 --> 00:55:44,100
- Hi, Angela.
- Hi, honey.

1109
00:55:47,012 --> 00:55:50,428
Rexy, she definitely
had a very interesting

1110
00:55:50,452 --> 00:55:54,908
and loving relationship
with for a very long time.

1111
00:55:54,932 --> 00:55:58,068
Even when she started
living with Eva and Noni,

1112
00:55:58,092 --> 00:56:01,188
Rexy was still there and he was
still a part of the family,

1113
00:56:01,212 --> 00:56:02,748
as long as he wanted to be.

1114
00:56:02,772 --> 00:56:05,148
Eventually, he felt dispossessed

1115
00:56:05,172 --> 00:56:09,548
and moved himself
to Puerto Rico.

1116
00:56:09,572 --> 00:56:11,828
But when he came back,
he was always welcomed.

1117
00:56:11,852 --> 00:56:13,988
He was always taken care of.

1118
00:56:14,012 --> 00:56:17,364
He was going blind,
and she took care of him.

1119
00:56:18,372 --> 00:56:21,628
Her first husband Moise
became a friend of hers,

1120
00:56:21,652 --> 00:56:24,788
and they would write letters
back and forth in French.

1121
00:56:24,812 --> 00:56:27,948
I think she lived for
the family,

1122
00:56:27,972 --> 00:56:32,592
and that included
the extended family.

1123
00:56:36,972 --> 00:56:38,668
At the time...

1124
00:56:38,692 --> 00:56:41,228
It was late '60s,
I believe. Yes, late '60s.

1125
00:56:41,252 --> 00:56:45,108
And Chelly Wilson decided
to open up a Greek restaurant.

1126
00:56:45,132 --> 00:56:47,908
She opened up
the place called Mykonos,

1127
00:56:47,932 --> 00:56:51,348
and she had the right person
to run the place,

1128
00:56:51,372 --> 00:56:52,868
Noni Kanjaraki.

1129
00:56:58,932 --> 00:57:02,628
She would have her lover,
Noni, singing there,

1130
00:57:02,652 --> 00:57:04,828
who was a sort of opera singer.

1131
00:57:04,852 --> 00:57:07,428
Gravelly, six packs of
cigarettes a day kind of singer.

1132
00:57:07,452 --> 00:57:08,640
Very nice voice.

1133
00:57:15,713 --> 00:57:18,227
So, it was strange going
to the house and seeing Noni

1134
00:57:18,252 --> 00:57:19,891
in a sort of, like, nightgown,

1135
00:57:19,916 --> 00:57:22,171
walking around with
her cigarettes and so forth.

1136
00:57:22,196 --> 00:57:24,573
And then, like, at that night,
she would be in this restaurant,

1137
00:57:24,597 --> 00:57:26,147
singing and be all glamored up

1138
00:57:26,172 --> 00:57:28,545
in this sort of kitsch
sequin thing.

1139
00:57:29,215 --> 00:57:30,631
The Mykonos opened

1140
00:57:30,656 --> 00:57:33,588
basically for Noni
to have a place to sing,

1141
00:57:33,613 --> 00:57:35,095
and for them to have
a place of their own.

1142
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:37,850
It was going to be, like, a
little boîte in the beginning,

1143
00:57:37,875 --> 00:57:41,455
and then, it ended up being
a full-blown restaurant.

1144
00:57:41,972 --> 00:57:46,122
THEW GREEKS HAVE A WORD FOR FUN-DINING

1145
00:57:59,551 --> 00:58:01,028
It was very lively.

1146
00:58:01,052 --> 00:58:03,433
My sister worked there
as a hostess.

1147
00:58:03,458 --> 00:58:06,757
That was the place to be

1148
00:58:06,852 --> 00:58:10,495
and the place to stay
till 4:00 in the morning.

1149
00:58:13,174 --> 00:58:14,158
STANDING ROOM ONLY RESTAURANT

1150
00:58:14,182 --> 00:58:16,796
MYKONOS (N.Y.) IS GREECE
TRANSPLANTED TO NEW WORLD

1151
00:58:18,722 --> 00:58:22,131
ACCORDING TO MRS. CHELLY WILSON,
NOBODY EVER WANTS TO LEAVE MYKONOS!

1152
00:58:26,692 --> 00:58:30,148
The food was fabulous.

1153
00:58:30,173 --> 00:58:34,110
Vassilis Photopoulos did
the design of the restaurant.

1154
00:58:34,135 --> 00:58:36,187
Beautiful murals.

1155
00:58:36,834 --> 00:58:40,107
Vassilis had won the Academy
Award for Zorba the Greek

1156
00:58:40,132 --> 00:58:41,564
for the Art Direction.

1157
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:43,005
Handsome, handsome guy.

1158
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:46,201
Bondi used to be...
Oh, she loved him.

1159
00:58:46,783 --> 00:58:50,872
I met a lot of Greek stars
and American stars.

1160
00:58:50,897 --> 00:58:52,233
Yul Brynner.

1161
00:58:52,258 --> 00:58:54,114
Jackie with Onassis came.

1162
00:58:54,412 --> 00:58:56,028
Shirley MacLaine.

1163
00:58:56,052 --> 00:58:57,148
Bobby Kennedy.

1164
00:58:57,172 --> 00:58:58,268
Rod Steiger.

1165
00:58:58,292 --> 00:58:59,988
Everybody went to Mykonos.

1166
00:59:00,012 --> 00:59:03,228
She did the smartest thing.
She brought in a pelican.

1167
00:59:03,252 --> 00:59:04,468
Yes, she did.

1168
00:59:04,492 --> 00:59:06,428
She brought the mayor,
with the pelican

1169
00:59:06,452 --> 00:59:08,828
from the island of Mykonos.

1170
00:59:10,222 --> 00:59:12,436
PETER PELICAN'S BEAK IS FULL OF GOOD WILL

1171
00:59:12,461 --> 00:59:14,929
Over there,
the pelican is considered to be

1172
00:59:14,954 --> 00:59:16,930
a bird of peace.

1173
00:59:16,955 --> 00:59:22,067
And he is here as a peace... As
a symbol of peace to the world.

1174
00:59:22,092 --> 00:59:25,140
And everybody came
to see the pelican.

1175
00:59:25,165 --> 00:59:28,433
It was lined out the
door to come have dinner,

1176
00:59:29,074 --> 00:59:32,348
and this was constant for about
a year or two, like, nonstop.

1177
00:59:32,372 --> 00:59:36,097
You would see only limousines
outside just to see

1178
00:59:36,122 --> 00:59:37,938
the pelican.

1179
00:59:37,963 --> 00:59:40,429
It was a very fun place to go.

1180
00:59:43,128 --> 00:59:45,944
And then,
we had Bondi's wedding there,

1181
00:59:45,969 --> 00:59:48,886
which was beautiful.

1182
01:00:01,883 --> 01:00:04,883
The place was full of flowers.

1183
01:00:05,217 --> 01:00:08,997
My mother had built a floral...

1184
01:00:09,022 --> 01:00:10,787
It was almost like a huppah

1185
01:00:10,812 --> 01:00:14,360
that a Jewish couple
would get married under.

1186
01:00:14,563 --> 01:00:17,352
PRESENTING DON WALTERS AND BONDI WILSON

1187
01:00:17,377 --> 01:00:19,072
STRICTLY X RATED PREFORMANCE

1188
01:00:19,097 --> 01:00:21,684
We were opening
a new film at the time

1189
01:00:21,709 --> 01:00:24,387
that I was getting married
and I was very, very busy.

1190
01:00:24,412 --> 01:00:26,628
So, I didn't really
have that much to do

1191
01:00:26,652 --> 01:00:29,336
with what happened
at my wedding.

1192
01:00:42,823 --> 01:00:44,879
My mother wasn't that
interested in business

1193
01:00:44,904 --> 01:00:46,760
because Mykonos was going on.

1194
01:00:46,785 --> 01:00:48,348
So, she was more
interested in the restaurant

1195
01:00:48,372 --> 01:00:50,418
than she was in the films.

1196
01:00:50,607 --> 01:00:53,640
So, I was doing all of the work.

1197
01:00:57,105 --> 01:00:58,906
In the early '70s,

1198
01:00:58,931 --> 01:01:02,429
it was a very exciting
but fraught time.

1199
01:01:04,234 --> 01:01:07,058
There were all kinds
of legal implications.

1200
01:01:10,082 --> 01:01:12,742
Hardcore never became legal.

1201
01:01:12,767 --> 01:01:14,726
A community could ban,

1202
01:01:15,495 --> 01:01:18,711
in its local area,
certain kinds of porn,

1203
01:01:18,892 --> 01:01:23,228
if it didn't satisfy what
they call community standards.

1204
01:01:23,252 --> 01:01:26,148
The federal government
was prosecuting people

1205
01:01:26,172 --> 01:01:27,836
and a lot of people
were getting busted.

1206
01:01:29,664 --> 01:01:33,046
DA MOVES TO SEIZE "MISS JONES"

1207
01:01:33,228 --> 01:01:35,628
HERBERT NITKE CHARGED WITH OBSCENITY

1208
01:01:35,653 --> 01:01:38,828
Herb, my ex-husband,
was charged with obscenity

1209
01:01:38,852 --> 01:01:41,066
three different times;
major cases,

1210
01:01:41,091 --> 01:01:44,427
like serious,
you will go to jail,

1211
01:01:44,452 --> 01:01:46,608
felony kind of cases.

1212
01:01:49,132 --> 01:01:53,468
Bondi was not real keen
about the possibilities

1213
01:01:53,492 --> 01:01:57,586
of getting harassed or arrested
running a distribution company.

1214
01:01:57,611 --> 01:01:59,676
She was good at running
a distribution company,

1215
01:01:59,701 --> 01:02:01,427
but she didn't like the fact

1216
01:02:01,452 --> 01:02:04,719
that the FBI might
wander in and harass her.

1217
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,467
It wasn't until the business

1218
01:02:07,492 --> 01:02:10,852
got a little more dangerous
that it got more difficult.

1219
01:02:11,902 --> 01:02:15,672
And for me,
it got most difficult

1220
01:02:15,697 --> 01:02:17,700
when I got arrested

1221
01:02:18,056 --> 01:02:21,718
for distributing a film,
Illusions of a Lady.

1222
01:02:22,252 --> 01:02:26,731
Yes. You really
are quite lovely.

1223
01:02:26,756 --> 01:02:29,346
The indictment
was on interstate shipment

1224
01:02:29,371 --> 01:02:31,147
of obscene material

1225
01:02:31,172 --> 01:02:33,860
and conspiracy against
the United States.

1226
01:02:33,997 --> 01:02:35,723
So, I felt very threatened

1227
01:02:35,748 --> 01:02:38,347
and I felt she didn't
really understand it.

1228
01:02:38,547 --> 01:02:39,901
"Everything's going
to be okay, darling.

1229
01:02:39,925 --> 01:02:41,258
Everything's going to be okay."

1230
01:02:41,283 --> 01:02:42,991
In the meantime,
it was a felony charge.

1231
01:02:43,016 --> 01:02:45,708
It was...
I was arrested by the FBI.

1232
01:02:45,732 --> 01:02:47,388
I mean, it was not
everything is okay.

1233
01:02:47,817 --> 01:02:50,262
I had to go to trial
in New Orleans.

1234
01:02:50,287 --> 01:02:54,782
And I had been told, too, that
I could plead nolo contendere,

1235
01:02:54,972 --> 01:02:57,388
and I wouldn't have to worry
about a trial or anything else.

1236
01:02:57,413 --> 01:02:59,987
And I said, "No.
I didn't do anything wrong."

1237
01:03:00,012 --> 01:03:01,668
"I'm going to fight this
all the way down.

1238
01:03:01,692 --> 01:03:03,454
I'm not copping any plea."

1239
01:03:03,479 --> 01:03:07,303
I apparently have
a tic I wasn't aware of,

1240
01:03:07,328 --> 01:03:08,778
which is I giggle.

1241
01:03:09,681 --> 01:03:12,669
So, every time they would
ask me a question, I giggled.

1242
01:03:13,403 --> 01:03:16,268
My husband believes that's
why I didn't get convicted...

1243
01:03:16,979 --> 01:03:18,942
because I was too stupid.

1244
01:03:19,984 --> 01:03:23,426
So, we all got off,
which was wonderful.

1245
01:03:23,451 --> 01:03:26,090
Of course,
they asked the jury why,

1246
01:03:26,562 --> 01:03:30,338
and the jury,
which was mostly women,

1247
01:03:30,574 --> 01:03:34,670
they said because
the Obscenity Law said

1248
01:03:34,695 --> 01:03:36,551
"current community standards,"

1249
01:03:36,652 --> 01:03:39,748
and they said, "They make these
films down here in the Quarter."

1250
01:03:39,772 --> 01:03:41,379
So, that was it.

1251
01:03:41,404 --> 01:03:44,380
Current community standards,
it wasn't violating anything.

1252
01:03:44,524 --> 01:03:46,157
So, that was the end of that.

1253
01:03:46,182 --> 01:03:49,758
Basically, things are changing
and I think Hair, Oh! Calcutta!,

1254
01:03:49,783 --> 01:03:51,427
when you have a Paramount movie

1255
01:03:51,452 --> 01:03:53,428
such as Tropic of Cancer
using words like "fuck"

1256
01:03:53,452 --> 01:03:56,108
and showing a bush,
it would indicate

1257
01:03:56,132 --> 01:03:58,068
that the American public
is maturing.

1258
01:04:01,457 --> 01:04:03,987
I lived on 45th Street,

1259
01:04:04,012 --> 01:04:06,228
right across from the theater.
It was wonderful,

1260
01:04:06,252 --> 01:04:08,548
but the building was
full of prostitutes.

1261
01:04:08,908 --> 01:04:11,922
The porn industry
was very closely associated

1262
01:04:11,947 --> 01:04:14,068
with other kinds of sex work,

1263
01:04:14,833 --> 01:04:16,615
prostitution,

1264
01:04:17,132 --> 01:04:19,146
striptease,

1265
01:04:19,804 --> 01:04:22,900
and in New York City that was
centered at Times Square.

1266
01:04:24,145 --> 01:04:26,227
I mean, try to understand,
42nd Street,

1267
01:04:26,252 --> 01:04:28,056
you had a lot of blood banks.

1268
01:04:31,166 --> 01:04:34,126
It was a tough, tough area.

1269
01:04:35,004 --> 01:04:37,787
It was also a very violent
period, lots of drug use.

1270
01:04:37,812 --> 01:04:38,988
No!

1271
01:04:39,012 --> 01:04:40,428
You would see people,

1272
01:04:40,452 --> 01:04:42,548
I mean, ripping chains
off people's necks.

1273
01:04:42,572 --> 01:04:44,447
It was terrible.

1274
01:04:46,372 --> 01:04:47,788
It was scary.

1275
01:04:47,812 --> 01:04:51,708
Nowhere, for $1,
nowhere, change, waters.

1276
01:04:51,732 --> 01:04:53,725
I take change, credit cards,
phone numbers and everything.

1277
01:04:53,749 --> 01:04:55,875
Check out,
check it out, check it out.

1278
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:57,596
I was in Vietnam.

1279
01:04:57,621 --> 01:05:00,365
I was more afraid of walking
down 42nd Street at that time

1280
01:05:00,390 --> 01:05:01,951
than I was in Vietnam.

1281
01:05:04,314 --> 01:05:07,662
It seemed dark.

1282
01:05:07,906 --> 01:05:09,896
"FOR GOD'S SAKE, GET OUT!"

1283
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,508
Quiet on the set, please.
Please, quiet.

1284
01:05:17,532 --> 01:05:19,005
We're going to go for
a sound take.

1285
01:05:19,030 --> 01:05:21,046
Chelly! Chelly, darling!

1286
01:05:21,071 --> 01:05:24,247
You want for posterity,
that means the future,

1287
01:05:24,272 --> 01:05:25,928
to have your photo up?

1288
01:05:25,953 --> 01:05:28,725
We'll play it at The Adonis
before every show.

1289
01:05:32,749 --> 01:05:35,307
We stopped making films
sometime in the '80s,

1290
01:05:35,332 --> 01:05:37,908
and then the theaters
ultimately closed

1291
01:05:37,932 --> 01:05:41,107
in the '90s, with Giuliani.

1292
01:05:41,132 --> 01:05:42,935
Giuliani was our nemesis.

1293
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,126
He came after us
with a vengeance.

1294
01:05:45,151 --> 01:05:47,047
A huge urban renewal project

1295
01:05:47,072 --> 01:05:49,408
has closed many
porno-related businesses,

1296
01:05:49,433 --> 01:05:50,729
and big business,

1297
01:05:50,754 --> 01:05:53,130
like Disney and Sony,
have invested millions.

1298
01:05:53,332 --> 01:05:54,828
Most of the people
in New York city

1299
01:05:54,852 --> 01:05:56,748
would like to ban
sex shops, porn shops,

1300
01:05:56,772 --> 01:05:58,326
do away with them completely.

1301
01:06:01,744 --> 01:06:02,966
Nowadays,

1302
01:06:02,991 --> 01:06:05,513
I think there are two porn
theaters left in New York City.

1303
01:06:05,538 --> 01:06:07,693
One is out in Queens.

1304
01:06:08,373 --> 01:06:11,201
Yeah, we're constantly looking
for, like, the last,

1305
01:06:11,511 --> 01:06:14,056
the last porn theater.

1306
01:06:19,473 --> 01:06:21,109
WHAT A GREAT 35 YEARS
GOOD BYE FRIENDS

1307
01:06:21,134 --> 01:06:24,322
Once Giuliani came
and closed all of the theaters,

1308
01:06:24,347 --> 01:06:27,123
Grandma Chelly had to
make an adjustment.

1309
01:06:27,148 --> 01:06:29,547
She had investments
in real estate.

1310
01:06:29,572 --> 01:06:31,068
I know that a lot of people

1311
01:06:31,092 --> 01:06:32,388
were going to her for money,

1312
01:06:32,412 --> 01:06:36,228
and I always felt
that I didn't want to go

1313
01:06:36,252 --> 01:06:37,908
and hang out with her because
sometimes she would say,

1314
01:06:37,932 --> 01:06:39,709
"Are you okay with money?
Do you need some money?"

1315
01:06:39,733 --> 01:06:41,216
And she would shove, you know,

1316
01:06:41,241 --> 01:06:43,428
hundreds or whatever
it is, in my pocket,

1317
01:06:43,452 --> 01:06:44,951
and it made me feel weird.

1318
01:06:44,976 --> 01:06:46,908
And I was, like,
"I don't want to visit her

1319
01:06:46,932 --> 01:06:48,548
if I'm going to get money,
you know, each time,"

1320
01:06:48,572 --> 01:06:50,728
because I got kind of
freaked out by it.

1321
01:06:50,753 --> 01:06:53,627
I know it sounds strange, but it
just made me too weirded out.

1322
01:06:53,652 --> 01:06:54,400
You know?

1323
01:06:54,425 --> 01:06:56,745
It's like I didn't want to have
that relationship with her.

1324
01:06:58,209 --> 01:07:00,306
And I think there was a time
she tried to give me a building,

1325
01:07:00,330 --> 01:07:02,060
but my father
talked her out of it.

1326
01:07:02,143 --> 01:07:05,517
Thank God. What would I do with
a brownstone in New York?

1327
01:07:07,287 --> 01:07:08,338
Anyway...

1328
01:07:08,363 --> 01:07:10,035
- Sorry.
- Yeah.

1329
01:07:12,566 --> 01:07:14,714
But she was very happy
that I was in film.

1330
01:07:14,739 --> 01:07:18,587
She did finance my first real
attempt at being a filmmaker,

1331
01:07:18,612 --> 01:07:21,628
which was sort of like this
supernatural vampire thriller,

1332
01:07:21,652 --> 01:07:23,508
which took place in
the theater that she owned

1333
01:07:23,532 --> 01:07:26,128
or the abandoned theater
that she owned, the Adonis.

1334
01:07:27,233 --> 01:07:29,585
I said to myself,
"This is a haunted mansion."

1335
01:07:32,212 --> 01:07:33,628
For me, it was like

1336
01:07:33,652 --> 01:07:35,588
the porn version
of the Chronicles of Narnia.

1337
01:07:35,612 --> 01:07:37,372
It's just...
Just everything was weird.

1338
01:07:39,673 --> 01:07:42,467
So, I said, "Okay, well, what do
you do with a place like this?

1339
01:07:42,492 --> 01:07:44,668
You make a vampire movie."

1340
01:07:44,692 --> 01:07:46,068
Sweetie, you don't know

1341
01:07:46,092 --> 01:07:48,188
the first thing about
being a detective.

1342
01:07:48,212 --> 01:07:51,988
So, I wrote a movie
called Gargoyle and Goblin.

1343
01:07:52,012 --> 01:07:54,268
Turn him to stone.

1344
01:07:54,292 --> 01:07:57,585
And I had free run of the place,
and we shot in 16 millimeter,

1345
01:07:57,610 --> 01:07:59,554
and I showed her
all the footage.

1346
01:08:00,215 --> 01:08:02,387
She had a pretty good laugh
at it.

1347
01:08:02,412 --> 01:08:03,948
To Chelly.

1348
01:08:04,415 --> 01:08:05,844
Chelly!

1349
01:08:06,314 --> 01:08:07,698
To Nikki.

1350
01:08:08,034 --> 01:08:09,501
Honestly,
I think she was probably

1351
01:08:09,526 --> 01:08:11,868
the only member of my family
that I really admired,

1352
01:08:11,892 --> 01:08:14,108
mostly because
I knew where she came from

1353
01:08:14,132 --> 01:08:17,548
and how she built this empire
essentially on just being gutsy.

1354
01:08:17,572 --> 01:08:19,148
She was a businesswoman

1355
01:08:19,172 --> 01:08:20,987
and she was very good
at what she did,

1356
01:08:21,012 --> 01:08:22,828
from selling chestnuts

1357
01:08:22,853 --> 01:08:25,307
to buying, you know,
property in New York

1358
01:08:25,332 --> 01:08:26,588
that was worth a fortune.

1359
01:08:26,612 --> 01:08:27,828
She did very well.

1360
01:08:27,852 --> 01:08:29,392
Oh, my God!

1361
01:08:31,245 --> 01:08:32,548
Oh, my God!

1362
01:08:32,572 --> 01:08:34,766
Because there was always a plan.

1363
01:08:34,791 --> 01:08:38,665
You might not have known what
it was, but she had a plan.

1364
01:08:38,945 --> 01:08:42,681
As I started to get older
and know more about the story

1365
01:08:42,932 --> 01:08:45,628
of my mother
and how she survived

1366
01:08:45,652 --> 01:08:48,867
and what my grandmother
did on behest of her family,

1367
01:08:48,892 --> 01:08:52,828
I started to see her picture
in a larger way.

1368
01:08:52,853 --> 01:08:54,189
There's something

1369
01:08:54,214 --> 01:08:58,950
that I feel that I owe to her,

1370
01:08:58,981 --> 01:09:00,517
my grandmother.

1371
01:09:00,542 --> 01:09:02,158
She might not have thought

1372
01:09:02,183 --> 01:09:04,547
that what she was doing
was an act of resistance,

1373
01:09:04,572 --> 01:09:08,585
by coming to United States and
leaving my mother, but it was.

1374
01:09:14,142 --> 01:09:17,662
I think she had an invincibility
sort of idea about herself.

1375
01:09:18,927 --> 01:09:21,143
And then, as she got older,

1376
01:09:21,652 --> 01:09:25,268
I think she realized that, you
know, she has limitations, too.

1377
01:09:25,292 --> 01:09:27,308
What is it?

1378
01:09:27,332 --> 01:09:28,740
Oh!

1379
01:09:40,272 --> 01:09:42,808
Later in her life,
she started to get sicker.

1380
01:09:42,833 --> 01:09:44,667
You know,
she had many heart attacks.

1381
01:09:44,692 --> 01:09:46,708
She was a chain-smoker
for many years.

1382
01:09:46,732 --> 01:09:48,828
She quit smoking, but, you know,

1383
01:09:48,852 --> 01:09:51,404
I think she survived five heart
attacks, if not more.

1384
01:09:53,803 --> 01:09:56,099
And I think she then
became scared.

1385
01:09:56,452 --> 01:09:58,188
I hope
it's going to fit you, Ma.

1386
01:09:58,212 --> 01:10:00,148
You know,
she loved life so much.

1387
01:10:02,012 --> 01:10:03,748
Because if it doesn't fit...

1388
01:10:03,772 --> 01:10:05,668
It fits.

1389
01:10:05,692 --> 01:10:07,108
How was your birthday?

1390
01:10:07,132 --> 01:10:08,428
Good. Very good, very good.

1391
01:10:08,452 --> 01:10:10,508
- Good.
- The best.

1392
01:10:10,532 --> 01:10:12,434
Terrific.

1393
01:10:15,359 --> 01:10:17,138
When Grandma Chelly was dying,

1394
01:10:17,187 --> 01:10:19,348
she had the forethought
to write this letter.

1395
01:10:19,372 --> 01:10:22,628
She made the shopping list
for what she wanted Bondi

1396
01:10:22,652 --> 01:10:26,316
and my mother
to buy to eat at her funeral,

1397
01:10:26,341 --> 01:10:28,835
and we had to follow it
to the T.

1398
01:10:30,582 --> 01:10:32,694
Spinach pie,

1399
01:10:33,118 --> 01:10:35,214
pickles, whitefish,

1400
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:38,451
Nova Scotia, mustard, everything.

1401
01:10:38,799 --> 01:10:40,867
Olives, baklava.

1402
01:10:41,847 --> 01:10:48,463
Huevos haminados,
those eggs they made in Salonika.

1403
01:10:48,612 --> 01:10:51,500
She said, "I want you
to eat this food."

1404
01:10:52,005 --> 01:10:55,507
"I want you to enjoy it.
I want you to toast me.

1405
01:10:55,532 --> 01:10:57,268
"And I want you to know

1406
01:10:57,292 --> 01:11:00,738
that I am with God
and I have no regrets."

1407
01:11:04,295 --> 01:11:05,769
That was a very nice gift

1408
01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:08,170
that she gave to all of us,
to say that.

1409
01:11:15,692 --> 01:11:18,460
We used to joke that
she died on Thanksgiving,

1410
01:11:18,485 --> 01:11:20,988
so that she would see us
with all the food.

1411
01:11:21,012 --> 01:11:23,788
And so, when we had Thanksgiving
just two days ago,

1412
01:11:23,812 --> 01:11:26,428
even my mother and Bondi
were, like, "Yes, mother.

1413
01:11:26,452 --> 01:11:29,301
Here, we're taking
pictures of the food."

1414
01:11:29,326 --> 01:11:31,147
Those things in life
were important to her.

1415
01:11:31,172 --> 01:11:33,468
Food, survival.

1416
01:11:33,492 --> 01:11:36,000
You claim your space.
You are who you are.

1417
01:11:39,372 --> 01:11:42,228
While you're here now,
you're going to enjoy yourself

1418
01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:45,344
and make the best
out of everything.

1419
01:11:50,722 --> 01:11:54,680
NEW JERSEY

1420
01:12:13,519 --> 01:12:16,015
Why am I building this?

1421
01:12:16,135 --> 01:12:17,968
I feel like I'm possessed.

1422
01:12:19,923 --> 01:12:24,293
I have wanted to build this
since I was 16 years old.

1423
01:12:25,292 --> 01:12:27,188
So, at a certain point, I said,

1424
01:12:27,212 --> 01:12:28,650
"Okay, I'll build
this whole thing

1425
01:12:28,675 --> 01:12:30,960
and the story will come to me."

1426
01:12:31,138 --> 01:12:35,285
Sort of like Game of Thrones
meets Private Ryan, in space.

1427
01:12:35,652 --> 01:12:37,508
I'm going to roll this puppy

1428
01:12:37,532 --> 01:12:40,868
into a studio and shoot a movie.

1429
01:12:40,892 --> 01:12:43,868
Also, I'm very kind of proud of
the fact that, somehow,

1430
01:12:43,892 --> 01:12:48,188
this lineage of film making
has continued throughout.

1431
01:12:48,212 --> 01:12:53,409
I can't imagine Chelly
divorced from movies at all.

1432
01:12:53,434 --> 01:12:57,843
So, for me, it just kept
in line with the family.

1433
01:12:59,209 --> 01:13:00,865
Oh, she would love to see this.

1434
01:13:00,890 --> 01:13:02,610
I think she would get
a real kick out of it.

1435
01:13:04,452 --> 01:13:07,228
I think that definitely
being raised in that family,

1436
01:13:07,742 --> 01:13:09,386
the weirdness of it

1437
01:13:09,411 --> 01:13:12,511
made me numb to
everybody else's reality.

1438
01:13:13,372 --> 01:13:15,675
It was always like
being in another world.

1439
01:13:16,421 --> 01:13:18,800
So, with that kind
of a life upbringing,

1440
01:13:18,825 --> 01:13:20,773
I don't think I had any choice.

1441
01:13:21,144 --> 01:13:24,067
When I see what people do with
their lives as a daily grind,

1442
01:13:24,092 --> 01:13:26,708
you know, you wake up, you have
your, whatever breakfast,

1443
01:13:26,732 --> 01:13:28,348
you go nine hours a day,
whatever,

1444
01:13:28,372 --> 01:13:30,108
I look at that
like science fiction;

1445
01:13:30,132 --> 01:13:32,386
I don't know
how anyone does that.

1446
01:13:32,411 --> 01:13:34,627
And that might sound
incredibly spoiled

1447
01:13:34,652 --> 01:13:37,855
or entitled or whatever it is.

1448
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,511
But I mean, if you're
not here to create something,

1449
01:13:40,536 --> 01:13:43,867
or to give someone else
escapism, or have a message,

1450
01:13:43,892 --> 01:13:46,664
or do something,
then what are you doing?

1451
01:13:50,972 --> 01:13:52,913
QUEEN OF THE DEUCE