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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[ Suspenseful music plays ]

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[ Camera shutters clicking ]
Good morning.

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I'm Jeff Berman,
U.S. attorney

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for the Southern District
of New York.

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Today we announce criminal
charges against this man,

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Lawrence Ray,

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who, for nearly a decade,

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exploited and abused
young women and men

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emotionally, physically,
and sexually

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for his own financial gain.

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**

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Kerik:
Who is Larry Ray?

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Nobody really knows.

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Ray has been charged
with nine counts,

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including sex trafficking,
extortion,

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forced labor,
and money laundering.

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Kerik:
He was a master manipulator,
a master con man.

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But every single relationship
he had was based on a fraud.

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Melendez:
Larry, has filled this void
for the kids

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of having a parental figure
that was there for them

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and wanted to listen to them.

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Reporter:
Investigators claim that Ray
groomed the roommates,

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conducting therapy sessions.

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He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

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and some weird theory called
Quest for Potential.

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He manipulated them
into making their worlds

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smaller and smaller,

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until they were totally
dependent upon him.

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How could these
bright young students

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have gone along with this?

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Marcus:
Larry tells them they have
to work all day.

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Figliuzzi:
They become profit centers.

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He has them literally drain

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the bank accounts
of their parents.

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Reporter:
Ray initially befriended
his victims,

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moving into their own campus
housing before encouraging them,

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the summer
after their sophomore year,

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to move in with him
to a Manhattan apartment.

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He would begin to instruct them
to have sex with each other

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and do various things that they
weren't comfortable with.

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Larry has to force her
to continue being a prostitute.

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Figliuzzi:
We're dealing with brain
control, mind control.

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We're looking
at a con artist on steroids.

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[ Thudding ]

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Spit them out.

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**

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**

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[ Birds chirping ]

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I was looking for a story
I could work on.

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A friend of mine had gone

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to her five-year reunion
at Sarah Lawrence.

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People at the reunion were
gossiping about these rumors

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about what had happened
to some of these kids

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who they'd gone to school with.

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And somebody had found
this website.

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It was pretty unsettling.

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It had a lot
of different headers

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that were called things like,

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"I poisoned people
because my mother told me to,"

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or "I am a liar and I am working
for the government,"

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and there was a link
to this video.

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Sunday, March 22nd

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Please talk audibly Claudia.

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It's Sunday, March 22nd

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This girl was sort of
being interviewed.

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Start from the most
current time backwards.

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The most current time

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And first, you making this
by your own free will?

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Yes.

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Anybody pay you?

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No.

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Anybody threaten you?

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No.

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Anybody coerce you?

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No.

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It begins with Claudia saying,

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"I'm making this
of my own free will,"

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which is, first of all,
like, "Hmm,

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if you have to say that,
you're probably not."

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Okay, so when did you
poison last?

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And a man is off-camera,

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asking her questions
in this deep voice,

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an older man's voice.

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So you're saying you
put mercury on where?

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On the doorknobs
in the hospital?

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Yeah

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your food.

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Other things I touched
or anybody touched?

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Yeah.

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It was clear that something
weird was going on.

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My thinking about it
turned from,

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"Oh, is Claudia this like,
you know, evil poisoner?",

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which was how the website
presented her,

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into, "Something wrong is being
done to her by this guy."

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And, you know,
that's the first time

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I kind of encountered Larry Ray.

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I just started reaching
out to people

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that were named on the website

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to talk to them about what had
been going on with Claudia

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and what had happened to her.

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And I pitched it
to New York Magazine

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on the initial striking thing,

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which was that a man moved
into his daughter's dorm room.

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**

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**

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Sarah Lawrence is a small
liberal arts college

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in upstate New York,

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where people are really
dedicated to learning

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and are extremely intelligent.

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It's a very hard school
to get into.

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It seems to attract young people
who are interested in the arts,

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interested in literature,
interested in theater, maybe.

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I wanted to study literature,
so I went there.

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It was a beautiful,
leafy, green campus

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and it was not too far
from the city.

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**

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Talia Ray grew up in New Jersey.

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She was a really driven student.

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She had this group of friends

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that she moved in with
sophomore year,

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into campus housing.

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And they were
freestanding houses

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all kind of arranged in a row,

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a pathway
from this little forest.

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They were going to have fun,

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hang out, make food together,
throw some parties.

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Classic sophomore year
of college stuff.

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**

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Marcus:
Daniel Levin was
from New Jersey.

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He was kind of a shy kid,

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but he was excited
to make new friends.

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He wanted to be a writer,
I believe.

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Then there's Santos Rosario,

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which was Talia's
former boyfriend

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turned friend and roommate.

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Marcus:
His parents owned a travel
agency in the Bronx,

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small family business.

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It was the American dream.

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Claudia was from Los Angeles.

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She was super creative.

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She liked to tell stories.

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You know, her friends
from high school

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thought of her as gregarious
and, you know,

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she'd also had a really
sheltered kind of childhood.

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And then there's
Isabella Pollok.

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Marcus:
She was from San Antonio,

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very far away from home.

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She was pretty shy,
also pretty sheltered.

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She and Talia quickly,
really bonded

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and became like
really close friends.

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The group of students
who were Talia's housemates

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were, you know,
18, 19 years old.

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Most of them from good families,

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good academic backgrounds.

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What's important to remember --

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the human brain
is not fully developed

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until you're 25 years old,

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so, that's a very
vulnerable period.

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They definitely were trying
to figure out who they were

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and where they belonged
in this world at college,

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kind of leaning on each other
to try to figure out

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what they were supposed
to be doing.

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**

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When Talia showed up
at Sarah Lawrence

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and met this group,

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her dad was a central part
of her conversations.

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She would describe how he was

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this amazing, smart person
that she idolized.

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He is an extremely
important person

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who had all these important
connections in New York.

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She painted him as someone
who had been wrongly pursued

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by law enforcement
because he had powerful enemies.

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She described him
as some political martyr

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who'd taken on corruption

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and been punished
and was in jail.

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When she was seven,

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Larry and Talia's mother,
Teresa, got divorced

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and the custody dispute
quickly turned extremely nasty.

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Years later, Talia refuses
to live with her mom

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and, at a certain point,

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Larry and Talia essentially go
on the run.

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They're tracked down
by U.S. Marshals

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and, you know,
they burst through the door

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and arrest Larry.

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Larry Ray goes to jail
for the child custody dispute.

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The way that Talia
describes her father

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to her friends at Sarah Lawrence

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is that he has been
wrongfully accused

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of this child custody dispute
and shouldn't be in jail.

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Hates her mother
for putting him there.

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Talia is obsessed with Larry.

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He is the perfect dad ever

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and he has been
wrongfully convicted.

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One day she basically says, "My
dad is getting out of prison,"

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and he needed a place
to kind of land

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after getting out of jail.
She was like,

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"Yeah, my dad's going
to come visit

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and maybe, you know,
spend the night and," yeah.

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**

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It's totally not unusual
for parents to drop by colleges

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and even spend
the night sometimes.

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And then he kind of stayed.

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I think the initial reaction
was probably their gut reaction

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and should've been one
that they listened to,

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was like, "Why is this grown man
in our college dorm room?

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This is weird."

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Marcus:
But he sort of installed himself
in the common room

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as like a father figure
for the dorm.

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I thought he was very cool,
very smart,

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very composed,
and very inspirational.

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As Claudia:
He was very friendly

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and he seemed, you know,

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sort of very different
from anyone,

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like very magnetic,
charismatic kind of personality.

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He'd make dinner for everyone
or he'd order food,

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these kind of lavish meals.

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You know, you're a college
student. That's awesome.

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So kids would kind of hang out
with him and listen to him talk

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and he'd give these
almost sort of like lectures

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at night in the common room.

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So, I think that, while their
immediate reaction was like,

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"Talia, why did you just bring
your father into our house?",

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quickly transited into, "Talia,
I can't imagine your father

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not being in this house."

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Being in college is a uniquely
vulnerable point

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in the life of a lot of people.

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You're away from home
for the first time.

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You're in a strange place,

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not exactly sure
what you're doing.

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It was --

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It was really hard for me.

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I-I was not really prepared
to live alone.

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I had like never done laundry
before going to college.

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I had a lot of separation
anxiety from my parents.

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I just felt very sort of
anchorless and anxious

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and didn't really have
a good handle on myself.

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Larry sold himself as an expert
in self-improvement,

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some sort of combination
of a life coach and therapist.

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00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,679
Somebody tells you,
"I got the answers,"

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and can do it
in a confident way,

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is in a position
to exert undue influence.

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00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:12,200
"I have exactly the answer

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and I am the bridge
to mental health for you,"

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and that can be powerful.

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I'm having anxiety
and all these problems

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and Santos was like,
"Why don't you talk to Larry?

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He's great.
He's been helping me."

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I ended up confiding
in him a lot

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00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:32,519
about issues that I have
with my family,

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00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,879
my depression that I struggled
with in high school.

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Larry really listened
and really, really seemed

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00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,080
as though he actually
very much wanted to help me.

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00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,200
I shared a lot
of very personal things.

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He spoke a lot
about inspirational things,

257
00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:52,559
like honesty, principles,
science, and philosophy.

258
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,399
I considered him a very honest
and truthful person.

259
00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,440
And, initially,
I felt it was important to me

260
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,000
to be a good person,
you know, be like him,

261
00:13:03,039 --> 00:13:04,600
be honest and be truthful.

262
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:09,679
**

263
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,960
Marcus:
He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

264
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,759
and how everybody has
a potential

265
00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:16,159
that they can achieve.

266
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,360
Some weird theory called
Quest for Potential.

267
00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:25,639
As Felicia:
He framed it
as helping them optimize

268
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,399
and helping them get
over their insecurities

269
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,039
and become happier,
more effective people.

270
00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:34,200
Larry promised young people

271
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,399
who were very confused
and felt alienated

272
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,679
that he was the person who was
going to pull them out of it.

273
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,519
He's helping them reveal
hidden truths about themselves

274
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,240
and changing the programing

275
00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:50,879
that their evil parents
and evil society,

276
00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:52,440
all these things that were
sort of done to them.

277
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,840
He is intentionally
changing their mind-set.

278
00:13:57,639 --> 00:14:00,320
Larry said that he had
extensive military training

279
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,720
in the mind
and human behavior,

280
00:14:02,759 --> 00:14:05,039
from different departments
of the government,

281
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,639
so, DOD, FBI, CIA,
DIA, Marine Corps.

282
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,759
Marcus:
The sort of climax of it

283
00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:19,639
would be these stories
about his heroic past.

284
00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:24,360
Larry claimed to the kids
that he helped negotiations

285
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:25,559
to end the war in Kosovo.

286
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,559
He claimed to be related
to Al Capone.

287
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:29,720
The list goes on.

288
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:32,759
He was very good
at mythmaking about himself.

289
00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:34,600
I think, if you were
to sit Larry Ray down

290
00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:37,240
and ask him the question,
"Larry, who are you?"...

291
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,360
...I think he'd con you
in his own answer

292
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:47,039
because I'm not sure Larry Ray
knows who he really is.

293
00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:50,879
Larry Ray is someone
who can become

294
00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:53,759
whoever you want him to be

295
00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:57,440
and whoever he needs you
to think he is.

296
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:11,000
**

297
00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:13,799
**

298
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,360
Larry Ray is Larry Grecco,
one thing.

299
00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:17,799
That's the name
he was born under.

300
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,840
Melendez:
Larry grew up in Brooklyn.

301
00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:22,120
I mean, if you hear him,

302
00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:24,600
he's a quintessential
Brooklyn boy.

303
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,360
At a certain point,
his parents divorced

304
00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:32,639
and Mom remarried
a man named Gordon Ray...

305
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,759
...and Larry took
his stepfather's last name.

306
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:39,399
He served in the military
for 19 days.

307
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,360
He was discharged
for reasons that are unclear.

308
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,840
He married his high school
sweetheart, Teresa.

309
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,480
Jacobs:
He's known a lot of people.

310
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:53,639
He's known
a lot of connected people.

311
00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:56,919
He seems to sort of fit in
where he goes,

312
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,279
whether that be law enforcement
or, reportedly,

313
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,399
he had some Mafia connections
in Brooklyn.

314
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:06,399
Melendez:
He seemingly knew everybody.

315
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,200
Really good friends
with Bernie Kerik.

316
00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:11,200
Bernie Kerik was

317
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,240
the New York City
police commissioner.

318
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,200
And he was somebody Giuliani
had brought up

319
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,360
from just being
an undercover cop

320
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:19,720
into being like, you know,

321
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:21,360
a high-ranking member
of the administration.

322
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,639
Kerik:
In 1995, I met Larry Ray.

323
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:29,759
We would work out together.

324
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,559
We'd have coffee, have lunch.

325
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,759
He was extremely charismatic.

326
00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:37,519
He was very smart.

327
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:39,240
Very, very smart.

328
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,519
Marcus:
It's this sort of like

329
00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:43,039
mutually beneficial
business relationship,

330
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,759
but it's also a real friendship.

331
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,000
Larry's the best man
at Bernie's wedding.

332
00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:50,720
Kerik:
Looking back, it's kind of
strange, you know.

333
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:53,399
You get married, you have
all these wedding photos

334
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,480
and I've got a thousand
wedding photos

335
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:58,720
and not one
has my best man in it.

336
00:16:58,759 --> 00:17:01,320
They've all been discarded.

337
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:09,160
And Larry Ray helped Kerik
broker an introduction

338
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,160
between Rudy Giuliani
and Mikhail Gorbachev.

339
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,160
[ Speaking foreign language ]

340
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,599
Larry was flying into JFK

341
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680
and he comes out of the
international terminal

342
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,240
and he says, "Bern,
I want you to meet

343
00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:24,039
President Gorbachev."

344
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:25,799
I said, "Okay, alright."

345
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,039
I told him the mayor.

346
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,160
I said, "Gorbachev is here.

347
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,400
He'd love to see you,
if you have a minute,"

348
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,200
and Giuliani said, "Absolutely.
Bring him down."

349
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,160
[ Flashbulbs exploding ]

350
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,359
For a politician
like Rudy Giuliani,

351
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,720
that kind of photo op

352
00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:44,400
[ Flashbulb explodes ]
is worth more

353
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,640
than its weight in gold.

354
00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:48,960
It was pretty slick.

355
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:49,880
[ Flashbulb explodes ]

356
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:57,200
**

357
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,200
**

358
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,359
Lalich:
You've got this guy who just
spent years in prison.

359
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,119
He lands in this dorm
with these young, vulnerable,

360
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,079
eager roommates of his daughter,
who adores him,

361
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,319
who basically set them up
to like him.

362
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,000
And so, for him, you can see
where his little wheels

363
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:23,839
are turning and thinking, "Oh."

364
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,920
Marcus:
Isabella was clearly
the closest to Talia

365
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,240
and the closest to Larry.

366
00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:35,599
And Larry would often sleep
in Isabella's room.

367
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,720
Ray told residents of the
apartment that she needed help,

368
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:43,240
she needed supervision,
essentially, you know.

369
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:45,039
Instead of it being
something sexual,

370
00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:46,279
he was really just there

371
00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:49,359
to supervise her
through the night.

372
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,240
I was pretty freaked out,
at first.

373
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:53,200
I didn't really know what
to think.

374
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,160
I thought it was weird.

375
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,480
He got her like this coat
that she really loved,

376
00:18:57,519 --> 00:19:01,119
that was like significantly more
elegant than her other clothing.

377
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,440
So, she seemed to like actually
open up more after meeting him.

378
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,559
He just said
that he was helping her

379
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:09,480
through some
psychological issues

380
00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:12,000
or emotional issues
she was having.

381
00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:16,880
**

382
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,240
Marcus:
And then, at the end
of that semester,

383
00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:23,400
Isabella's parents
get a phone call from Larry.

384
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,559
He said, "If she comes home
for Christmas,

385
00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:32,200
she's going to be
reliving trauma

386
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,400
and she's going
to kill herself."

387
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,400
He told them that, you know,

388
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,279
Isabella didn't feel safe
with them.

389
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:42,759
That was a complete shock.

390
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,480
Lalich:
He was breaking her
from her family.

391
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:49,000
The purpose is separating you
from friends and family,

392
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:51,279
any support system
you may have had.

393
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:53,519
And, obviously,
making the decision for her

394
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:55,359
that she wasn't going
to go home

395
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,359
and Isabella
isn't protesting that,

396
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,039
so, the family gets
completely flummoxed,

397
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:02,599
like, "What the hell's
going on here?"

398
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:05,839
Marcus:
But their hands
were kind of tied.

399
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,200
I mean, you can't take an adult

400
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,960
away from a situation
she wanted to be in.

401
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,240
And so it's the beginning

402
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:15,799
of breaking everyone off
from anyone else.

403
00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:23,200
**

404
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,000
**

405
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:28,480
My name is Lee Chen.

406
00:20:28,519 --> 00:20:31,400
I'm a businessman based
primarily here in Manhattan.

407
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,200
I first remember meeting
Larry Ray,

408
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,200
he was a person
with a commanding presence.

409
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,599
We had engaged in several
business dealings.

410
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,799
He seemed like
a very kind person.

411
00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:52,480
I thought that he was caring

412
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:58,079
and he exhibited signs
that he had a lot of compassion.

413
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,000
[ Horns honking ]

414
00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:03,400
There was a time
during Christmas break

415
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,319
Larry had brought back
to my apartment,

416
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,319
not only Talia,
but also Isabella Pollok.

417
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,160
Marcus:
Larry would take them out
to these like lavish dinners.

418
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,319
He'd often pay in cash.

419
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,559
He had all this cash
in his backpack.

420
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,680
Larry's in control
of everything --

421
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,400
what they eat, where they go,
what they do.

422
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,400
And there's a really odd
kind of dynamic

423
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,599
between Larry and Isabella
which seems really sexual,

424
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,119
even though it's supposedly all
about helping her.

425
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,799
What he was doing was
establishing full control.

426
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:40,400
He's away from the campus,

427
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,680
any like people saying, "What
the hell is going on there?"

428
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,359
And so he is reinforcing

429
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,720
that separation
from the outside world.

430
00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:57,200
**

431
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,920
**

432
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,279
Often, I wasn't there

433
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:06,160
because I'd been traveling
for business.

434
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,200
When I came back from a trip,

435
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,079
he had moved himself
into my bedroom.

436
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,119
But it wasn't just him.

437
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,160
And it wasn't just him
and Talia.

438
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,400
I only had one bed
[ Chuckling ] in my bedroom.

439
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,599
It was him, Talia, and Isabella.

440
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,039
And they were sleeping
in my bed, all together!

441
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,759
Larry's stroking Isabella's hair
on the bed

442
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:35,799
and calling her his baby girl.

443
00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:40,440
She's, what, 19, maybe 20?

444
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,920
This man's in his 50s.

445
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,359
You know, she's sleeping
in his bed every night,

446
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,640
so he can help her,
whatever that means.

447
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,440
It was methodically
choosing one person

448
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,839
who became totally
dependent on him...

449
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,160
...and then could sort of
systematically work

450
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,680
through the rest of the people.

451
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:09,240
[ Suspenseful music plays ]

452
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:20,279
**

453
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:29,519
**

454
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:32,359
Larry has filled this void
for the kids

455
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,680
of having a parental figure
that was there for them

456
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,799
and wanted to listen to them
and had time for them.

457
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,119
Daniel was coming to him
with some of his insecurities

458
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,599
and he had a pretty
normal question,

459
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,519
which was he was struggling
with his sexuality,

460
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:52,160
you know,
"Am I straight or gay?"

461
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,000
Larry, in a very definitive way,
said, "You're not gay.

462
00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:58,880
You know, you're straight."

463
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,319
And, once Larry knew that,
Larry was able

464
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,039
to really use that
against Daniel

465
00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,200
and use that
in Daniel's relationship

466
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,240
with his family and his father.

467
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,680
Daniel's dad wrote to him
in an email,

468
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,480
"It's like you're hypnotized
when I talk to you.

469
00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:20,359
It's like, 'What's up
with you'", you know?

470
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,559
There was a real shift

471
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,400
in these people's
outward personalities.

472
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,319
Isabella's aunt and her mother
flew to New York

473
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,880
and they had dinner
with Isabella and Larry

474
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,599
and Larry just seemed very much

475
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,759
to be kind of in control
of the conversation

476
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:39,960
and Isabella seemed
to just kind of go along

477
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,319
with whatever he said.

478
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,680
So, you know,
they went back to San Antonio.

479
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:48,079
The history of this case
is replete

480
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,400
with people trying their best

481
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,720
to draw the attention
of authorities.

482
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,279
Some 50-year-old guy's living
in the dorm.

483
00:24:57,319 --> 00:24:58,720
It's strange.

484
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,279
Marcus:
Some of the parents thought
it was pretty weird,

485
00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:04,640
especially as the situation
progressed.

486
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,079
The parents said
that they made complaints

487
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,640
to the school administrators.

488
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,480
Parents writing to,
speaking with,

489
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:15,279
Sarah Lawrence officials.

490
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:17,440
At least one student
communicating

491
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,960
with the dean of students,
"We've got an issue here."

492
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:30,279
**

493
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:40,279
**

494
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:50,279
**

495
00:25:50,319 --> 00:26:00,279
**

496
00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:03,480
**

497
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:06,279
The next summer,
Larry had started to bring more

498
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:09,200
and more students into my home.

499
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:14,440
Marcus:
Dan, Claudia, and Santos were
kind of like the newer acolytes,

500
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,839
the ones who were kind of

501
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,640
more recently falling
under the sway of Larry

502
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,400
and seeking him out
for guidance

503
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,319
and so they sort of all end up
living there.

504
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,480
Larry, Isabella, and Talia
shared the bedroom

505
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:29,079
and, in the living room,
we got

506
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,079
two king-size,
blow-up mattresses,

507
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,440
which we would put
on the ground

508
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,119
and they would completely
cover the ground.

509
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,440
And then there were two --

510
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,359
there was a longer couch
and a shorter couch.

511
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,720
It's a one-bedroom apartment,

512
00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:42,640
but there's multiple people
sleeping there.

513
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,599
There's not enough space
for everybody.

514
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,480
Many times,
when I'd come back from a trip,

515
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:52,480
whether it be business
or personal,

516
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:55,680
I'd find all these people
in my living room.

517
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,400
And Larry standing there,

518
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,000
like a general talking
to his assembled troops.

519
00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:06,839
They're really now what I call
a self-sealed system.

520
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,799
You're closed
to the outside world.

521
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:11,240
You may be living
in the middle of Manhattan,

522
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,400
but you're
in an altered reality.

523
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,440
Figliuzzi:
Larry Ray took it upon himself
to study cults.

524
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,359
He wanted to hone
and refine his con skills

525
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,960
and turn them
into cult development skills.

526
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,279
**

527
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:38,720
**

528
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:42,119
He would start every morning
by playing the song

529
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,160
to wake them up
and it would be like,

530
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,799
"Okay, you know,
Larry's in charge."

531
00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:51,640
[ Upbeat rock plays ]

532
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,079
He was the day in,
day out ringleader

533
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,559
of what this group was doing.

534
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,400
He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

535
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,200
and how everybody
has a potential

536
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,279
that they can achieve.

537
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:05,480
He'd tell you what to do.

538
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:08,559
He'll tell you
what was wrong with you.

539
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:10,000
[ Suspenseful music plays ]

540
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:12,279
The sort of climax of it

541
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:18,240
would be these nighttime
sort of sessions

542
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,279
where they would
sit around and talk.

543
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:25,160
It sounded like there was
very little sleep,

544
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,319
sitting around all hours
of the night,

545
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,519
analyzing themselves

546
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:31,160
and analyzing each other
at nauseam.

547
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,000
He was starting to test them

548
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:37,200
in ways that would
really push them.

549
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,279
The discussions would become
like focused on one person.

550
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:46,880
This long, drawn out period
of interrogation,

551
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,559
basically with them,
at first, denying,

552
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:51,319
and then, eventually,
after hours,

553
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:54,680
confessing to having done
something wrong.

554
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,480
As Santos:
He kept calling me a liar,

555
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:58,480
saying that what I was saying
wasn't true

556
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:00,200
and that I should give him

557
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,279
a list of things
that I did wrong.

558
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,160
And he would periodically
have me affirm

559
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,359
how I harmed him
throughout the day

560
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,200
or throughout the time
that I knew him.

561
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:15,319
He's brainwashing them
by forcing them to,

562
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:17,680
over and over again,
under pressure,

563
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,960
admit to doing things
that they hadn't done,

564
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,759
until they either believed it
or said that they believed it.

565
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,279
And then, instead of using
those stories

566
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:31,079
to help people feel better
about themselves,

567
00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:32,680
he turned them around
and used them

568
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,240
to humiliate people
and to control them.

569
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:38,200
Lalich:
How could these bright
young students

570
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,279
have gone along with this?

571
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:42,480
It's the months
of indoctrination,

572
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:45,839
to the point where they have
internalized the beliefs

573
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,200
and the behaviors that Larry
has been imparting to them.

574
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,240
Pressure would ratchet up...

575
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:55,480
...where it wouldn't just be
about like,

576
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:57,319
"You know, how can we help
this person's mental health?"

577
00:29:57,359 --> 00:29:59,759
It would be like,
"What did this person do

578
00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:01,759
to disrupt the group?"

579
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,160
Personally, I felt like
everyone only spoke to me

580
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,400
because Larry,

581
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,720
you know, told them to.

582
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,400
He actually told me
they only spoke to me

583
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,319
because he told them to,
multiple times.

584
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:22,799
So, I felt very ostracized
and on thin ice.

585
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,279
He manipulated them
into making their worlds

586
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:30,359
smaller and smaller,

587
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,720
until they were totally
dependent upon him.

588
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,039
[ Melancholy tune plays ]
[ Birds chirping ]

589
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:51,359
**

590
00:30:51,400 --> 00:31:01,359
**

591
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:07,920
**

592
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:14,039
Marcus:
Iban Goicoechea was a former
boyfriend of Talia's.

593
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:21,160
**

594
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,559
He spent a lot of time
in the apartment.

595
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:23,920
He was very much part
of the group.

596
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,200
Hines:
Iban was just very,
very easy to be around.

597
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,680
His smile was electric.

598
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,720
He had a gift
for breaking tension

599
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:33,799
and just making the mood light.

600
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,880
He saw Larry
as kind of a mentor

601
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,640
and a guiding light
who had looked after him.

602
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,119
He believed that Larry
was sort of this example

603
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,640
of this heroic Marine
that he wanted to emulate.

604
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,400
He enlisted in the Marines,
which Larry pushed him to do,

605
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,759
even though Larry was not
in the Marines,

606
00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:01,559
and by the time of the students
living in the apartment,

607
00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:04,799
he's come back
from serving in Afghanistan.

608
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,079
He'd been through some
really traumatizing things

609
00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:11,400
in Afghanistan.

610
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,440
He'd seen some people close
to him die

611
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,680
and he was experiencing PTSD.

612
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,920
I felt that Larry had
placed himself in a position

613
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,680
where Iban saw him
as a factor in his treatment

614
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,240
and I think it's something
Larry took advantage of.

615
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:32,359
Sometimes I'd be hanging out
with Iban.

616
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,359
He'd just like
pick up the phone,

617
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,720
"Yes, yes," boom, hang up,

618
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:36,279
and then he's like,
"Got to go."

619
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:39,640
Like, "Oh, he's got to be ready
at all times."

620
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,160
He often played a role
of sort of like a gofer.

621
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,240
Larry would have him
drive him around.

622
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:53,920
As I was reporting the story,
I spoke with Iban.

623
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,640
When I talked to him,
it was in 2019.

624
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,400
He's helped me through a lot of

625
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:02,759
I mean

626
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,640
a lot of emotional battles
that I've had.

627
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,880
Directing me and guiding me
I should say

628
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,640
He was there for me to help me,
sort of

629
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,519
get my bearings again when
I came back to civilian society.

630
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:21,599
He kind of saw himself
as on a mission for Larry.

631
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,400
And it was his duty to,

632
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,160
if Larry ever needed anything,

633
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,319
in the same way as he would obey
a commander in the military,

634
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:33,400
he would do what Larry needed.

635
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,960
As time passed, Larry began

636
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680
to also test them
with physical violence.

637
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,559
In the beginning,
sort of small things

638
00:33:48,599 --> 00:33:51,920
that weren't necessarily scary,
like shoving.

639
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,559
And then as time went on,

640
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,680
these things became
actually violent.

641
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,039
Larry described how like Iban
had come to some sort of

642
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:07,519
very critical turning point
in his processing or therapy

643
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,639
and, in order to push him
towards the right decision,

644
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:14,039
Larry like took the edge
of a spatula

645
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,599
and pressed into his neck
and told him it was a knife

646
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:21,440
and told him he was going to die
and he should just let go

647
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,320
of whatever psychological thing
he was holding onto.

648
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,760
**

649
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,519
Larry was an obsessive
documentarian

650
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:35,920
of what his life
was comprised of

651
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,239
and what the victims were doing
and what they owed him.

652
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,559
Larry would hit them
or make them do things

653
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:48,119
while simultaneously
firing off questions

654
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:49,880
and forcing them to admit
things that they

655
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,119
didn't even know existed
until that second.

656
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,320
Daniel:
Months ago.

657
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,760
Ray: You're trying
to parse again.

658
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,719
[Indistinct] tongue.

659
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:57,960
I'm being honest.

660
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,760
Give me your tongue.
[ Laughs ]
[Bleep]

661
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,000
Stick it out.
Stick your tongue out.

662
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:04,159
Next it's gonna be the
head of your cock.

663
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:05,119
[Bleep]

664
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:07,960
You understand?
See this how it feels?

665
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,559
What if I picked you
up like that?
Picked you up by your tongue?

666
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:11,559
[ Moans ]

667
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:12,559
Huh?

668
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:13,920
You're a grown man,
I'm a grown man.

669
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Uh-huh.

670
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,280
I don't like what you did.

671
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,360
[ Muffled ]
I know.

672
00:35:18,119 --> 00:35:19,320
-You hear me?
-Mm-hmm.

673
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,920
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

674
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,920
Now one more time and I'm gonna
split your tongue in half.

675
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,320
You doubting me Danny?

676
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,400
No.
[ Sniffles, clears throat ]

677
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,480
Larry Ray is the epitome
of a malignant narcissist.

678
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,840
He is vengeful,

679
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,920
he is mean,

680
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,760
he is motivated by power,

681
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,559
and he is dangerous.

682
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,320
These narcissists
are so full of themselves

683
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,440
and they want
to record everything

684
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,920
as proof of what they're able
to accomplish.

685
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,719
He was starting to advise them
on their sex lives

686
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,800
and begin to put pressure
on them

687
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,440
to be more open sexually.

688
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,679
And I think a lot of it,
for Larry,

689
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,920
was about using sex
as sort of a tool

690
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,920
to destabilize them,
make them uncomfortable.

691
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,360
It was a tactic.

692
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,000
It's a way to hook someone in,
you know?

693
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:29,480
How could you be more honored
than to have the revered person

694
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:32,239
wanting to have
a sexual relationship?

695
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,599
It's one of the deepest,

696
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:36,239
most intimate ways
to control someone.

697
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,800
Larry came out of the bedroom

698
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,480
and it was just us
in the living room

699
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:43,880
and like stood over me.

700
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,360
Started grabbing himself like
under his pants

701
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,360
and started talking
about like orgasms

702
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,000
and how he could make me orgasm
without touching.

703
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,559
He also suggested that Dan
and I have sex right there.

704
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:01,360
And, when he left, we did.

705
00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:04,599
And Iban was like next
to us.

706
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,280
Larry really targeted
and humiliated Daniel

707
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,239
because of his issue
of sexual exploration.

708
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,039
And he told Daniel to go in the
other room and put on a dress.

709
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:23,000
It's one of the women's dresses.

710
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,559
And so, in front of everybody,

711
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:29,320
he's making fun of him
in this dress.

712
00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:38,079
And then he asked Isabella
to bring out a sex toy

713
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:41,239
and then told Daniel to try

714
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,519
and put that into himself,
in front of the whole group.

715
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,320
And they all sort of
stood around,

716
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,800
making fun of him for this.

717
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,440
You can imagine the trauma
for Daniel

718
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,400
to have to go through
such an experience

719
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,559
of shame and humiliation.

720
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,280
Melendez:
He just got bolder and bolder.

721
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:05,760
As it snowballed,

722
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,559
it became this cult
he could completely control.

723
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:14,519
**

724
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:16,960
Lee Chen is growing
increasingly disturbed

725
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,559
by what's happening here

726
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,360
and it's not just the mental

727
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,719
and physical abuse
he's witnessing,

728
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,960
it's also what Larry's doing
in his apartment.

729
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,960
Larry had asked me to help him
reorganize the apartment

730
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,239
because it was a mess

731
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,360
and repaint the walls
of the foyer

732
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,199
and remodel the bathroom.

733
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,840
And it quickly devolves
into Larry wanting

734
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,760
to fix this
one-bedroom apartment

735
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,880
and it's up to these kids
to fix it for him.

736
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,280
I mean, Santos Rosario
was a 19-year-old kid.

737
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,159
He does not know how
to fix walls

738
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,920
or do manual labor
or home improvement.

739
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,320
Larry had completely changed
the appearance of my apartment.

740
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,920
He took down walls,
painted the foyer pink,

741
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,599
and left electrical wires
hanging in the breeze.

742
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:13,559
It was the most incredible
thing I'd ever seen.

743
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,119
Larry had never
paid me any rent.

744
00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:19,559
I'd gotten completely fed up

745
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,840
and I told him,
"I don't want to hear it.

746
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,719
[ Laughing ]
You have to get out."

747
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,760
I sent him a ten-day notice
to leave.

748
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,159
That's when he changed
the locks on my apartment,

749
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:34,239
so I can no longer get
into my own home.

750
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:39,079
I took Larry
to New York County Civil Court.

751
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:46,039
It took me over three years
to gain an eviction judgment.

752
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:57,239
**

753
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,639
it would never get published

754
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:01,639
because your publisher
would say,

755
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:04,039
"It's too much.
It's too much.

756
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:05,800
That could never happen.

757
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,360
Never!

758
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,320
Nobody's going to believe this.

759
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,119
So go back and do it all
over again

760
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:12,440
because it's not going to work."

761
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,559
That's the only way to describe

762
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:20,960
the insanity of Larry Ray's
con ability, if you will.

763
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,440
I think the way that Larry
always wanted to be was

764
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,320
the way that he portrayed
himself to other people.

765
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,039
He really wanted
to be important.

766
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,760
Over the course of the '90s,

767
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,599
we can really see
Larry and Bernie

768
00:40:37,639 --> 00:40:39,480
kind of riding high together.

769
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:40,960
It's mutually beneficial,

770
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,119
where Kerik gets
Larry's connections

771
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:49,320
to meet influential people
and kind of advance his rise.

772
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,840
Meanwhile, Larry is using
Kerik's influence

773
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,440
for meeting as many powerful
people as possible

774
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,679
and playing them off each other.

775
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,280
And then things
kind of went south.

776
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,760
Larry Ray does not discriminate

777
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,840
on getting access
to powerful players

778
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,920
and that includes
organized crime members.

779
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,800
**

780
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,280
Larry Ray served
as a confidential source

781
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,719
for the FBI,

782
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,760
talking about a $40 million
Wall Street scheme.

783
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,400
He's aware of a Wall Street
fraud connected

784
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,079
to the Gambino crime family.

785
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,760
But Larry is putting himself
out as an informant

786
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,960
to cover his own role
in the scheme.

787
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,039
Eventually, the FBI catches on
that, "Wait a minute.

788
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:46,519
Our informant is actually part
of this crime."

789
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,239
Twenty people arrested,
including stockbrokers

790
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,800
and alleged associates
of the Gambino crime family.

791
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,599
Kerik:
My cellphone rings.

792
00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:58,840
Larry calls me,
tells me he's been arrested

793
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,360
and he wanted to see me
and wanted me to help him.

794
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:06,440
"No, you don't understand.

795
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,960
The FBI's got it wrong,"
and all this other stuff.

796
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,639
You know, "Can you call
the U.S. attorney?

797
00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:15,639
Can you call a judge?"

798
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:18,599
I said, "I'm not doing any
of that.

799
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:20,079
You know, you're indicted.

800
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:21,840
I can't get involved."

801
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,559
**

802
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:28,679
He's sentenced
to five years of probation,

803
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,159
with the caveat that, you know,
if he commits more crimes

804
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:33,400
during this,
he'll be in prison.

805
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,760
Larry doesn't take that well.

806
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,320
In Larry Ray's mind,
Bernie Kerik owed him.

807
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,480
He made Bernie Kerik.

808
00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:44,559
Larry decides, "I'm going
to take out my revenge,"

809
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,840
and that takes the form
of calling the media.

810
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,599
He starts talking
about ethics violations

811
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:53,760
that Bernie Kerik
might be involved in.

812
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,400
Reporter:
Ray was a one-time felon
turned FBI informant,

813
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,719
but he turned on Kerik,
telling authorities

814
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,599
how Kerik took $150,000
in free apartment renovations

815
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:06,840
from a mob-linked
construction firm.

816
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,480
Some of it was checks,
some was cash.

817
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:10,880
Reporter:
Kerik went to prison.

818
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,920
Kerik:
I blame all of it on Larry Ray.

819
00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:17,639
He started the investigation

820
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:21,039
that eventually resulted
in me going to prison

821
00:43:21,079 --> 00:43:23,440
and he was very proud of it.

822
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:32,440
**

823
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:38,760
**

824
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,079
By the time Larry gets
out of jail in 2010,

825
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:42,480
he's completely alone.

826
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,559
Any sort of connection
he used to have is gone.

827
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,679
He is no longer
of any importance in the city.

828
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:52,400
But it's fascinating
because the way

829
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,559
that Talia described him
to her friends

830
00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:58,519
her freshman year of college
at Sarah Lawrence is

831
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:01,039
that he still has that power.

832
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:04,079
Larry pulls Bernie Kerik out

833
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:06,960
when he starts telling
the college students

834
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,039
really powerful people
are coming after him.

835
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:18,440
**

836
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:24,639
**

837
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:27,960
Jacobs:
Santos Rosario,
he had two sisters.

838
00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:33,960
Yalitza attended Columbia
as an undergraduate.

839
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:40,880
Felicia's gone to Harvard

840
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,840
and she's now doing her medical
residency in Los Angeles.

841
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,000
She was well on her way
to a successful life

842
00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:49,199
with a meaningful career.

843
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:56,639
Santos had expressed interest
in connecting Felicia with Larry

844
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:59,440
because he felt Larry
was helping him

845
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,920
identify his issues
and overcome them

846
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,800
and he wanted his sister Felicia
to get the same benefit.

847
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:11,440
And, you know,
she's introduced to Larry

848
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,360
and begins talking to him
at length on the phone.

849
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,239
**

850
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,000
Felicia was essentially

851
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:25,639
recruited and groomed
long-distance.

852
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,960
We were on the phone together.

853
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:33,000
Oh, I thought he was really
nice, charming, smart.

854
00:45:35,679 --> 00:45:39,239
We ended up talking every day,
multiple times a day.

855
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,360
So, we were friendly.

856
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,840
We talked
about my siblings a lot

857
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,079
because he was spending
a lot of time with them.

858
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,679
Then it got to be romantic.

859
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:57,039
And Larry plays off of that
and gets her to

860
00:45:57,079 --> 00:46:00,559
kind of do things that she's
not comfortable with.

861
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,239
At first, he asked about how
many people I slept with.

862
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,639
Then what kind of sex
did I like,

863
00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:08,239
who did I like to sleep with?

864
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,480
That was at first.

865
00:46:11,039 --> 00:46:15,079
He insisted that I was to go out
and have sex with strangers.

866
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,960
While she was still living
in Los Angeles,

867
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,400
working on her residency,

868
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,000
Felicia started fulfilling these
sexual requests for Larry.

869
00:46:25,039 --> 00:46:27,679
She believed she was
in a relationship with him

870
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,039
and she didn't want to do any
of that, and pushed back.

871
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:32,519
But, ultimately,
he convinced her

872
00:46:32,559 --> 00:46:34,880
that she would do these things,
if she loved him.

873
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:41,159
Larry also wanted to see me
having sex with someone else

874
00:46:41,199 --> 00:46:42,920
and he wanted me to record it.

875
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,280
Larry wouldn't stop asking.

876
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:48,480
He was getting more angry

877
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:51,840
and so I decided I would comply
and appease him.

878
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:54,679
I didn't want to, though.

879
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,599
It's remarkable that someone
like Felicia...

880
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:06,360
...with her education
and her life experience...

881
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,880
...that she got sucked in
so completely and so quickly.

882
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:16,639
You have to ask yourself,
"How does that happen?"

883
00:47:16,679 --> 00:47:19,000
Felicia was most likely

884
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:21,760
in a vulnerable place
at that point.

885
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,079
She's in her medical residency.

886
00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:26,199
That's tough.

887
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,920
Perhaps learned enough
from Santos

888
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,360
of the things that would make
her more suggestible to his --

889
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,639
whatever he was saying
on the phone to her.

890
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:39,000
It really shows how good
he was at what he did,

891
00:47:39,039 --> 00:47:43,039
which is what some of the people
in his previous lives

892
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:44,119
had said about him.

893
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:52,679
**

894
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,239
He talked about how he had

895
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,360
helped bring down
Bernard Kerik...

896
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:00,559
...and basically put him in jail
and that, now, Bernard Kerik

897
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:03,079
and others were after him
and were trying to hurt him.

898
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,960
He talked about how the people
who were trying to hurt him

899
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,559
would target everyone who he was
associated with or cared about.

900
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:12,199
I had become extremely paranoid.

901
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,880
I was terrified that people
were going to come and kill me.

902
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,440
I was just scared
out of my mind.

903
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,719
I couldn't sleep.

904
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,800
She goes from being somebody
who is like

905
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,320
on a really solid
upward trajectory...

906
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:29,840
...to somebody who has moved her
mattress into the living room

907
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,440
and installed cameras
around her apartment

908
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,960
that Larry encouraged her
to buy and set up

909
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,480
because she's afraid
that people are out to get her.

910
00:48:37,519 --> 00:48:39,559
He really preys on this

911
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:42,840
to induce her
to leave her residency

912
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,960
and abandon her dreams
of being a doctor.

913
00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:51,559
She just drops all of this
because she's afraid and in love

914
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:53,800
and thinks that Larry
can protect her.

915
00:48:55,679 --> 00:49:00,000
And so she moves to New York...

916
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:03,360
...and moves into the apartment.

917
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:12,440
**

918
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,639
**

919
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:15,960
Ray:
Do you want
to hurt yourself?

920
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,320
What?

921
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,000
I don't.
I don't want to.

922
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:23,480
I don't want to.

923
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:25,280
-What?
-I don't want to hurt myself.

924
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,079
Unh-unh-unh unh-unh!

925
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:30,199
I don't know, why was it
so difficult to say that?

926
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,280
Is that accurate?

927
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:34,800
No, no, I do.

928
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:35,840
I still want to.

929
00:49:37,519 --> 00:49:39,599
And have you been thinking
about hurting yourself?

930
00:49:39,639 --> 00:49:40,559
Um --

931
00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:47,039
These young people were
very much hostages,

932
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:49,760
in a very real sense.

933
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,719
Melendez:
Santos went through some awful

934
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,360
emotional, physical,
psychological abuse.

935
00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:01,639
So, there's a video of Santos
slapping himself in the face...

936
00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:07,400
...while his sister Felicia
is next to him on the couch...

937
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,639
...and she appears to be
really unwell

938
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:11,280
and is kind of freaking out.

939
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:18,719
Santos spends an hour slapping
himself in the face pretty hard.

940
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,000
Stop talking Felicia.

941
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:22,079
He was doing this
because Larry told him

942
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:24,639
it was the only way
to get his sister Felicia

943
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:26,400
to stop talking or to be quiet.

944
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,719
I think Larry was able
to justify in his brain

945
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,239
as someone was helping me.

946
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:32,000
Can I get up now?!

947
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:33,559
No Felicia, stop talking.

948
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:37,599
Larry would pit one of his
followers against another

949
00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:40,639
and use them to shame each other
and police each other,

950
00:50:40,679 --> 00:50:44,079
to just drill feelings
of guilt and shame

951
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,360
into the minds of his followers.

952
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,519
I wanna go change my clothes.

953
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:51,840
Like, I don't want to be
in here.

954
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:52,599
So excuse me.

955
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:53,840
ISABELLA: Do not leave it.

956
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,440
ISABELLA:
Do not leave the room Felicia.

957
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:56,679
ISABELLA: You're a danger
to yourself and others, clearly.

958
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,079
[ Crying ]
I'm not.

959
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,920
Felicia was favored early on,

960
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,639
which can make you feel
very special, like,

961
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:08,239
"Oh, this incredible man is
in a relationship with me."

962
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,840
[ Shouts ]

963
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:11,039
Ray:
[Indistinct]

964
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:14,000
And then he just
most brutally destroyed her.

965
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:15,280
Felicia, lay down.

966
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:16,639
[ Crying out ]

967
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:19,599
Watching Larry physically
overpower her

968
00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:22,400
and physically restrain her.

969
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,320
And restrained her,
really, in every way --

970
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,519
physically and emotionally.

971
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:31,119
It was a long, drawn out,
tortured conditioning period.

972
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,960
Are you gonna behave?

973
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:40,280
**

974
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,039
I was terrified.

975
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:43,440
He said he would help me.

976
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,079
I felt it was too much for me.

977
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,000
The concept of being
that bad of a person

978
00:51:49,039 --> 00:51:50,679
was just intolerable.

979
00:51:52,159 --> 00:51:53,320
So I'm going back to bed.

980
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:54,320
Goodbye, guys.
Good night.

981
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:55,800
So then I went ahead

982
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,440
and I tried to end it.
Ray: Why are you doing that?

983
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,360
[ Slam ]

984
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,239
[ Water running ]

985
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:02,280
I was in the bathroom

986
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,880
and I saw a bottle of pills.

987
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,960
ISABELLA:
I hear a pill bottle opening.

988
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:11,880
ISABELLA: And closing.

989
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,679
[ Thudding ]

990
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,559
And then Larry had gotten up.

991
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:21,239
He realized I was out of bed.

992
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,239
And he came, slammed the door
open from the bathroom,

993
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:26,440
and then yanked me by the hair.

994
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,199
Spit them out.

995
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,119
Spit 'em.

996
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:30,719
And then said to Isabella,

997
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,639
"Don't let this fucking cunt
kill herself in my apartment."

998
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:41,320
**

999
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,079
Lalich:
At least three of the women
tried to commit suicide.

1000
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:52,639
And that's not surprising,
given what they were enduring.

1001
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:55,760
It's beyond comprehension,
what was being done to them.

1002
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,280
And, of course,
it seems only natural

1003
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,519
that they would reach a point

1004
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:01,760
where they just couldn't
take it anymore.

1005
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:07,079
Suicide becomes
an overriding theme,

1006
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:09,000
where Larry tells them,

1007
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:11,199
"All of you are prone
to suicide.

1008
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,840
There's been so many suicide
attempts among you.

1009
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,679
You are all uniquely at risk
and only I can save you."

1010
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:39,519
**

1011
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:43,199
**

1012
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,440
Williams:
To an extent, pretty much all
of us had PTSD.

1013
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,559
It's somewhere around 20 guys
since 2011

1014
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:54,079
who committed suicide.

1015
00:53:56,599 --> 00:53:58,599
Both people who were
more close to me

1016
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:01,320
and then people who were like
in my unit, as a whole.

1017
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,800
One of the primary symptoms
in PTSD

1018
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,360
and associated
with combat trauma is

1019
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,639
paranoia and hyperawareness,
basically.

1020
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:10,719
For Iban, it definitely
didn't seem like

1021
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,039
that was the main driver.

1022
00:54:13,079 --> 00:54:14,280
It seemed like it was

1023
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,760
the thoughts that Larry
had put it in his head

1024
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,159
that always somebody was
out to get him.

1025
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:21,440
When I spoke to Iban,

1026
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,840
he sounded rational
and coherent

1027
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,559
and, yet, he was talking
about something

1028
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:28,039
that seemed very divorced
from reality.

1029
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,760
[ Horns honking ]

1030
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,119
EZRA: Did you ever see Larry
targeted by governmental forces?

1031
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:38,519
While we were in New York,
were definitely followed.

1032
00:54:38,559 --> 00:54:41,480
I was a driver for him
for a while.

1033
00:54:41,519 --> 00:54:44,840
And she was being followed
on the streets.

1034
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,719
Sometimes we would see them.

1035
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,039
Other times we didn't see
anything.

1036
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:52,480
But there were times where it
was obvious that he was
being followed.

1037
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,320
He was like,
"Oh, you know, with Larry,

1038
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:57,920
Bernard Kerik's still
out to get him."

1039
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,719
It was this paranoid rambling
of people associated with Larry

1040
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,800
who don't like him
or out to get Iban as well.

1041
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:15,519
**

1042
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:21,920
**

1043
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,320
So, in spring of 2013,

1044
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,760
a number of these students go
down to North Carolina,

1045
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,199
where Larry's stepfather,
Gordon Ray, lives.

1046
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,119
And Talia's also living there.

1047
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,280
And Gordon has a property.

1048
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,079
It's a large, semirural house

1049
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:40,639
in Pinehurst, North Carolina,
which is a small town.

1050
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,920
Santos and Dan stay in New York,
but the rest of them --

1051
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,719
Claudia, Yalitza,
Felicia, Isabella --

1052
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:56,159
are all down in Pinehurst
and they're doing hard labor.

1053
00:55:59,559 --> 00:56:02,480
Cult leaders typically
exploit their followers

1054
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:03,880
in whatever way they can.

1055
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,519
So, it's not surprising
that Larry would go that route

1056
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:10,800
of getting free labor.

1057
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,599
Marcus:
This property is a total mess.

1058
00:56:13,639 --> 00:56:15,480
Essentially,
they rip up all this sod.

1059
00:56:15,519 --> 00:56:16,719
They have
to put new sod down.

1060
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,719
They have to dig
drainage ditches.

1061
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,639
They have to use backhoes
and this machinery,

1062
00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:23,840
none of which they have
any idea how to use.

1063
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,400
And Larry tells them
they have to like work all day

1064
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,079
and they eat
when he tells them to eat

1065
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:32,679
and they can't come inside
until this work is done.

1066
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,440
Here we really see
the hierarchy,

1067
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:36,800
even within the group,

1068
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,320
where Talia is the most
favored among them.

1069
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,440
So, while they're all
outside working,

1070
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:43,599
she's inside, you know, working

1071
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:45,599
on her application
to law school.

1072
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:47,639
You know, she's not
out in the fields.

1073
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,440
Ray:
They got to get it
down from the other side

1074
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,039
and then get the water
to run inside it.

1075
00:56:55,079 --> 00:56:56,519
Would you believe
this overflowed

1076
00:56:56,559 --> 00:56:58,400
right onto the lawn?
Look at this.

1077
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:04,119
**

1078
00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:06,360
You've been hurting me
for so long behind my back,

1079
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,480
doing damaging things,
destroying property.

1080
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:10,719
I don't want to.

1081
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:11,639
-Don't want to what?
-[ Sniffle ]

1082
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:13,679
I don't want to damage things.

1083
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,719
Well, when was the last time
you damaged something?

1084
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,400
Larry had a background
of extorting people

1085
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,039
and financial fraud.

1086
00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:23,440
He created this whole scene
where he convinced them

1087
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:24,960
that they broke
everything of his

1088
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,719
and then you've come up
with these amounts,

1089
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,559
you know,
like thousands of dollars,

1090
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:30,400
that they supposedly owed him.

1091
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,199
I was trying to --

1092
00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:34,519
You were trying
to damage it

1093
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:36,599
and do -- and aren't you
doing that?

1094
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:37,519
Yes.

1095
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,440
We were talking
about how much damage I did

1096
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,039
and I gave him
the estimate of $100,000.

1097
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,599
And he said,
"It sounds about right."

1098
00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:51,519
And I said,
"It's probably more."

1099
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:55,719
And he looks like,
"Yeah, it's probably more."

1100
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,440
The group was firmly
under Larry Ray's thumb

1101
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,559
and completely sold on the idea

1102
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:05,559
that they owed him
this massive debt

1103
00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:08,360
that they really would never
be able to work off.

1104
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,679
And these things they'd done
became a mechanism

1105
00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:15,840
for Larry to extract money
from their families.

1106
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,119
They began to go
to their family and friends

1107
00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:22,719
and tell them that they had
done something wrong

1108
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,239
and that they had
to pay him back

1109
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:25,920
and could they help them out?

1110
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,480
You know, at one point,
the Rosario parents,

1111
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:29,360
they weren't especially wealthy.

1112
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:30,920
They had managed to

1113
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:32,760
save enough money
to buy a small house.

1114
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,599
And they ended up giving

1115
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:39,159
six-figure amounts to Larry.

1116
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:45,119
There was one day when Santos
was on the phone with Talia

1117
00:58:45,159 --> 00:58:46,559
about how to get his parents

1118
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:48,920
to give him money
to make repairs

1119
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,599
and, occasionally, Talia would
hand the phone to Larry

1120
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:53,480
and Larry would talk to Santos.

1121
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,719
It was like a large amount
of money,

1122
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,559
like $20,000, around $20,000.

1123
00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:03,320
Santos succeeded.

1124
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,920
And I remember Larry talking
to him and saying, "Good job.

1125
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,039
See, doesn't that feel better,
you know?

1126
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:11,920
Making repairs
is the right thing to do,"

1127
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,000
that kind of thing.

1128
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,920
They become profit centers.

1129
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,920
And Larry Ray
is exploiting that.

1130
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,480
He has them drain the bank
accounts of their parents,

1131
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:25,559
in some cases, the life savings,

1132
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:27,559
because they convince
their parents,

1133
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:30,400
"I have done this kind
of damage.

1134
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,480
I owe this guy
this kind of money.

1135
00:59:32,519 --> 00:59:33,920
I'm in big trouble."

1136
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,280
[ Horns honking ]

1137
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:45,920
**

1138
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,920
According to the evidence
that was presented,

1139
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,280
Claudia was in a situation
where Larry was demanding

1140
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,039
thousands and thousands
of dollars from her...

1141
00:59:57,519 --> 00:59:59,719
...and he managed
to convince her

1142
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,639
that the only way
she could possibly

1143
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:05,079
make the kind of money
that she needed to make was

1144
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:07,159
to begin selling herself.

1145
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:12,920
**

1146
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,159
So, she began working
as a prostitute.

1147
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,840
Larry convinced Claudia
that she owes him,

1148
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,320
which, at this point is,
you know,

1149
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:23,559
into the hundreds
of thousands of dollars

1150
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:25,519
for damaged machinery
in Pinehurst.

1151
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:28,840
She begins sleeping
with men for money.

1152
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,880
And Larry is, you know,
intimately involved.

1153
01:00:34,159 --> 01:00:36,280
Pushing her to set up a website.

1154
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:45,719
**

1155
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,559
And giving Larry the money.

1156
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,719
I wanted to repair what I
believed I had done to Larry.

1157
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,440
And it was because I felt
immense pressure from Larry

1158
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:58,719
to get money for him.

1159
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,719
She starts living in hotels...

1160
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:09,519
...seeing clients in hotels,

1161
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:12,159
and any money,
except what's required

1162
01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:15,519
to pay rent and for food,
is all given to Larry.

1163
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:19,119
Melendez:
She was just turned into this
like money vehicle

1164
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:20,599
and was no longer a person.

1165
01:01:20,639 --> 01:01:23,840
She was just going hotel
to hotel, working constantly.

1166
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,480
The pressure just to make money
was just constant...

1167
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,800
...and extremely intense.

1168
01:01:33,559 --> 01:01:35,719
He would threaten
to blackmail my clients.

1169
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:37,599
He would threaten me
physically.

1170
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:39,920
He would threaten
to put me in prison.

1171
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:47,519
**

1172
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:49,920
**

1173
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,920
Somebody had found this website
that was pretty unsettling

1174
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,159
and there was a link
to this video.

1175
01:01:57,199 --> 01:01:58,559
Ray:
Speak audibly, Claudia.

1176
01:01:58,599 --> 01:02:00,360
I didn't care
about other people.

1177
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,280
Okay, so, say again.

1178
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,559
I wanted to poison you and I
didn't care about other people.

1179
01:02:06,119 --> 01:02:10,119
In that video, Claudia kind of
appears to be on autopilot.

1180
01:02:10,159 --> 01:02:12,119
Larry Ray would accuse
Claudia of things

1181
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:13,440
that absolutely made no sense,

1182
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,960
like poisoning
or conspiracies to kill.

1183
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,880
And, first, are you making
this by your own free will?

1184
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:20,679
Yes.

1185
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,519
And, if she said anything other
than, "Yes, I did,"

1186
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:26,800
Larry would say,
"But that's not the truth.

1187
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,679
You have to tell the truth."

1188
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:30,800
And these conversations
would be recorded.

1189
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,599
So the truth really meant
generating blackmail material.

1190
01:02:34,639 --> 01:02:37,119
I poisoned you multiple times

1191
01:02:37,159 --> 01:02:40,840
with vials of poison.

1192
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,679
At the same time, you were
trying to convince me

1193
01:02:42,719 --> 01:02:45,920
that you were a good person
and regretted ever doing this

1194
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,320
and that you would
never do it again.

1195
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,400
Yeah.

1196
01:02:49,239 --> 01:02:50,360
Why were you doing that?

1197
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,079
So I could continue to have
access to you.

1198
01:02:56,159 --> 01:02:59,119
So, I think, by the time
she like admits

1199
01:02:59,159 --> 01:03:00,920
to all these poisonings,
she just wants to get out.

1200
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,840
She just wants to put distance
between her and Larry

1201
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:05,880
and get out of the situation
as fast as possible.

1202
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:12,320
**

1203
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,079
The money from Claudia's clients
gets transferred to Isabella

1204
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,320
and she becomes a crucial part
of Larry's operation.

1205
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:21,719
Everyone in a cult,
to some degree,

1206
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:23,079
becomes a perpetrator.

1207
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,519
In Isabella's case,
she really became

1208
01:03:26,559 --> 01:03:29,159
sort of the right-hand person
to Larry.

1209
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:32,760
She was, in a sense,
the bookkeeper

1210
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,559
for Claudia's prostitution.

1211
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:38,280
There were clear accounting
ledgers kept

1212
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,679
that tell us the kind of income

1213
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:43,079
that Claudia was producing
for Larry.

1214
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:46,320
And yet, the amount of money
that he says she owes him

1215
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:47,519
never seems to go down.

1216
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:49,360
[ Horns honking ]

1217
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:54,199
**

1218
01:03:54,239 --> 01:03:58,480
You know, she ends up doing this
for four years...

1219
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:00,719
...no holidays...

1220
01:04:01,719 --> 01:04:03,760
...seeing up to five
clients a day...

1221
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:09,159
...and ends up giving him more
than $2 million.

1222
01:04:09,199 --> 01:04:15,440
**

1223
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:19,480
Jacobs:
She didn't really have
anything for herself.

1224
01:04:20,679 --> 01:04:25,519
She lived in constant fear
of Larry punishing her

1225
01:04:25,559 --> 01:04:28,400
and it seems like
almost everything she did

1226
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,920
during that time period was done
in order to keep him happy.

1227
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:41,519
**

1228
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:44,679
**

1229
01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:47,719
He was committed
to a psychiatric facility,

1230
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,559
which, from his perspective,
all that does is reinforce

1231
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:54,920
the "Everyone's out to get me"
narrative, right?

1232
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,000
And I'm sure Larry leaned
into that.

1233
01:04:57,039 --> 01:04:58,559
You know, "I told you
they'd come for you."

1234
01:04:58,599 --> 01:04:59,559
Like I don't know,
"I've been telling you

1235
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:00,920
this was going to happen to you.

1236
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,800
Now it's happened
and you can't trust anyone."

1237
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,280
He was kind of like
the New Jersey city kid

1238
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,840
and I was the, you know,

1239
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:11,760
they would call me
Mountain Goat. [ Laughs ]

1240
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:15,840
And I was always like,
"No, you got to come out

1241
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,920
and experience nature,
experience the woods."

1242
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,440
And my wife and I
had been having conversations

1243
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,039
with him on the phone.
We're like, "Hey,

1244
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:25,079
why don't you come,
move out to Oregon for a bit,

1245
01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:27,639
see if you can, you know, do
something different out here?"

1246
01:05:27,679 --> 01:05:29,440
He seemed, you know,
pretty enthusiastic

1247
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,599
about it and everything
and he got cleared

1248
01:05:31,639 --> 01:05:33,800
with his medical staff
to come out and do it.

1249
01:05:36,119 --> 01:05:37,360
We kind of noticed,

1250
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,920
shortly after him getting here,
you know,

1251
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,880
he just seemed like there was
no passion for anything

1252
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,000
and there was just like
nothing that he wanted to do.

1253
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:50,719
I was worried.

1254
01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:56,760
[ Suspenseful music plays ]

1255
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:03,880
Lalich:
For everyone who's in a cult,
there are always doubts,

1256
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,639
but, of course
you can't express them.

1257
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:07,159
You can't say anything
to anybody,

1258
01:06:07,199 --> 01:06:09,719
so you put them on the shelf
in the back of your head

1259
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:10,960
and, when that shelf breaks,

1260
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,360
you realize,
"This is not healthy.

1261
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,000
There's something
not right here,"

1262
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:17,840
and then you may start
to think about leaving.

1263
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:24,599
**

1264
01:06:24,639 --> 01:06:27,480
After a while, Daniel just
reached a breaking point

1265
01:06:27,519 --> 01:06:28,960
where he kind of broke through
and realized

1266
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,840
like what Larry was sort of
presenting as this,

1267
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,599
you know, enlightenment
was just -- none of it was real.

1268
01:06:35,639 --> 01:06:37,639
He was making it up
as he was going along.

1269
01:06:37,679 --> 01:06:39,199
"This guy doesn't know
what he's talking about,"

1270
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:41,239
and, shortly after that,
he left.

1271
01:06:43,719 --> 01:06:46,880
For Santos, I think he had
a really hard time

1272
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,320
reckoning with the idea
that Larry,

1273
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,159
someone that was there for him,
someone that listened to him,

1274
01:06:52,199 --> 01:06:55,119
someone that like justified some
of his emotions

1275
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:58,480
about his family
or his parents or his sisters,

1276
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:00,159
was actually
a really bad person.

1277
01:07:01,559 --> 01:07:04,760
At a certain point,
Santos, essentially,

1278
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,400
hits his limit
and stops talking to Larry.

1279
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,000
He feels abused and he leaves.

1280
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:14,400
He sort of gets
some low-wage jobs,

1281
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:15,800
but he cut off contact.

1282
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:24,599
**

1283
01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:27,280
**

1284
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:28,599
During the eviction process,

1285
01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:32,599
it took over three years
to gain judgment.

1286
01:07:32,639 --> 01:07:36,199
Then to get the marshal
to take action,

1287
01:07:36,239 --> 01:07:38,800
it took another few years.

1288
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:44,000
**

1289
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:49,039
It was, finally, a big relief
to get Larry out of my home.

1290
01:07:49,079 --> 01:07:51,639
You know, by this point,
he's mostly living,

1291
01:07:51,679 --> 01:07:54,880
on a day-to-day basis,
with Isabella and Felicia.

1292
01:07:56,039 --> 01:07:59,159
They spend some time in hotels.

1293
01:07:59,199 --> 01:08:00,760
They stay in some Airbnbs.

1294
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,880
Eventually, they land
at a house in New Jersey

1295
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,840
owned by his friend
Scott Mueller.

1296
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:16,600
**

1297
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,119
**

1298
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:20,640
There were very few spurts

1299
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:22,600
that Talia was not
in contact every day,

1300
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,680
but it was practically
every day,

1301
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,640
sometimes multiple times a day,
especially with Isabella.

1302
01:08:29,039 --> 01:08:34,000
Talia clearly comes out
as a key player in the con.

1303
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:38,119
She bought it to the point
that she sold it to other people

1304
01:08:38,159 --> 01:08:40,760
and continued to believe the lie

1305
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:42,439
throughout the history
of this case.

1306
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:52,399
**

1307
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,000
**

1308
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:59,119
Melendez:
This is already years into her
being a prostitute.

1309
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:01,640
She ended up telling one
of her clients

1310
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,119
in a moment of fear,
but also, I think,

1311
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:07,600
trying to get out of the
situation that she was in.

1312
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,920
Larry realized
that something had happened

1313
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:15,760
and he responds by showing up
to one of her hotel rooms.

1314
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,319
Larry and Isabella became aware

1315
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:22,840
that Claudia had tipped off one
of her clients

1316
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,640
to the fact that they named him
on a website

1317
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,199
exposing his involvement
with Claudia,

1318
01:09:29,239 --> 01:09:31,479
who was a prostitute.

1319
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:36,840
Melendez:
And he responds by showing up
to one of her hotel rooms.

1320
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,920
Larry and Isabella came
to Claudia's hotel room...

1321
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:44,720
...and Larry tortured her

1322
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,720
over the course
of a horrific night of abuse.

1323
01:09:49,079 --> 01:09:52,399
He comes in and immediately
starts berating her

1324
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:53,680
and hitting her

1325
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,960
and yelling at her
for the simple task

1326
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,079
of trying to tell somebody
what was happening to her.

1327
01:10:00,199 --> 01:10:01,880
He told me to strip naked.

1328
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,760
I was physically bound
to a chair.

1329
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:08,479
I could not leave.

1330
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,319
The way that Claudia
described it,

1331
01:10:10,359 --> 01:10:12,319
Isabella was in the room.

1332
01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:15,640
I remember her saying that, when
Larry was pouring water over me

1333
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,239
and lowering
my body temperature,

1334
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:20,760
she at one point was like,
"Claudia, you're such a faker.

1335
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,319
This water is room temperature.

1336
01:10:22,359 --> 01:10:23,800
It's not even cold."

1337
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:30,439
Jacobs:
Larry repeatedly suffocated
Claudia with a plastic bag.

1338
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,000
It was relentless

1339
01:10:32,039 --> 01:10:34,239
and it was painful
and it was terrifying.

1340
01:10:36,279 --> 01:10:39,680
He ended up smothering me,

1341
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,159
choking me to the point
of passing out.

1342
01:10:43,039 --> 01:10:44,439
I was terrified.

1343
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:46,479
I was trembling.

1344
01:10:47,239 --> 01:10:49,000
Lalich:
And it's just beyond cruelty.

1345
01:10:49,039 --> 01:10:52,600
Destroying this perfectly
normal student,

1346
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,000
force her to become a sex worker

1347
01:10:55,039 --> 01:10:57,399
and then not only take
all the money,

1348
01:10:57,439 --> 01:10:59,239
but torture her in between.

1349
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:02,640
At a certain point, they even
ordered burgers and fries

1350
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,720
and, you know,
they were eating dinner

1351
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,000
while she was tied naked
to a chair in front of them.

1352
01:11:08,039 --> 01:11:10,439
And then the torture
started all over again.

1353
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,279
And, at the end of it,
he finally unbound her

1354
01:11:14,319 --> 01:11:15,880
from the chair, let her go.

1355
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,439
She slept for a few hours.

1356
01:11:18,119 --> 01:11:20,840
Then she woke up
and went back to work.

1357
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:26,760
And it wasn't very long
after that

1358
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,479
Claudia showed signs of finally
becoming fed up

1359
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,800
with what she was being
put through

1360
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:38,760
and she confided in the same
client about what was going on

1361
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,439
and he provided her the escape
that she desperately needed.

1362
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:45,680
He got her a train ticket.

1363
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,880
And she left the city.

1364
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,399
She got away.

1365
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,840
I mean, this is somebody
who was giving, in some cases,

1366
01:11:54,880 --> 01:12:00,960
over $100,000 a month directly
to fund Larry and Isabella.

1367
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,760
They sent her a series of emails
and trying to guilt trip

1368
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,000
and intimidate her
into returning,

1369
01:12:09,039 --> 01:12:10,880
but she didn't.

1370
01:12:12,199 --> 01:12:15,000
And that's the beginning
of the end of this story.

1371
01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:22,840
**

1372
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,680
I just started reaching out
to people

1373
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,760
and people that knew Claudia
really well,

1374
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:28,159
her family and friends,
and they were like,

1375
01:12:28,199 --> 01:12:30,079
"None of us have talked to her
for six years."

1376
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:33,560
I pretty soon was put in contact
with Daniel Levin.

1377
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:34,920
He agreed to talk to me

1378
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,760
and that was when it really
became clear like

1379
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,119
this was like something
really bad and really abusive.

1380
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:42,880
I felt like I had to get
the story out there

1381
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,760
to try and get these people
some help.

1382
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,680
So, James Walsh and I
published the article

1383
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:51,000
at the end of April 2019.

1384
01:12:51,039 --> 01:12:55,119
Almost a decade from the time
that Larry first walked

1385
01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:57,680
into the dorm at Sarah Lawrence,

1386
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,439
this piece comes out
in New York Magazine,

1387
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,119
this unbelievably wild tale.

1388
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:05,000
The story came out

1389
01:13:05,039 --> 01:13:06,520
and we were all in the newsroom

1390
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,479
and all of us kind of started
freaking out

1391
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,000
because it was
a very weird story.

1392
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:17,960
And another repercussion of the
publication of the article

1393
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,720
was that Isabella's mother
and aunt and Felicia's mother

1394
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,920
went to New Jersey
and they knocked on the door

1395
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:27,800
and they essentially tried
to rescue their daughters.

1396
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,840
Larry apparently hid
in the back of the house

1397
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,359
and the daughters refused
to come out.

1398
01:13:33,399 --> 01:13:34,800
You know, even then,
there was nothing

1399
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:35,800
that they could really do.

1400
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,479
These are still adults.

1401
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,439
So that New York Magazine
article,

1402
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:47,199
thankfully, made its way
to an FBI supervisor

1403
01:13:47,239 --> 01:13:49,159
in the New York FBI Field Office

1404
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:51,239
and that supervisor said,

1405
01:13:51,279 --> 01:13:52,600
"I think we need
to look at this."

1406
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,039
And they proceeded to knock it
out of the park,

1407
01:13:55,079 --> 01:13:59,600
determining how much
income Larry Ray had

1408
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,000
that was from sex trafficking,

1409
01:14:02,039 --> 01:14:06,560
from depleting the bank accounts
of the kids' parents.

1410
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,039
They acquired cellphone records.

1411
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:14,600
Their emails show them
being controlled, confessing.

1412
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,399
Now, all kinds
of things happening

1413
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:18,800
and references to violence.

1414
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,199
Then comes a search warrant

1415
01:14:21,239 --> 01:14:24,439
of the residence
in Piscataway, New Jersey.

1416
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:29,680
[ Siren wailing ]
Early in the morning,

1417
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,840
Larry is in bed

1418
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,840
and a team of federal agents
and NYPD officers come

1419
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,560
into the house,
place him under arrest,

1420
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,000
and begin interrogating him

1421
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:44,199
and going through everything
in the house

1422
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:45,960
and seizing recordings

1423
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,239
of thousands of phone calls,
videos,

1424
01:14:49,279 --> 01:14:51,439
several dozen hard drives,

1425
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,279
several dozen cellphones,
laptops,

1426
01:14:55,319 --> 01:14:58,600
as well as handwritten ledgers
and handwritten journals

1427
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,520
he'd seized from the students.

1428
01:15:02,039 --> 01:15:05,439
And it is an agent's dream
to have a search

1429
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:10,239
where that much documentation
of illegality exists.

1430
01:15:11,279 --> 01:15:13,680
The same documentation used

1431
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,760
to control and humiliate
these kids

1432
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,279
was the same documentation used
in court

1433
01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:23,600
to absolutely nail Larry Ray.

1434
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:24,680
[ Camera shutters clicking ]
Good morning.

1435
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,600
I'm Jeff Berman,
U.S. attorney

1436
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,800
for the Southern District
of New York.

1437
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,319
Today we announce criminal
charges against this man,

1438
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:34,000
Lawrence Ray,

1439
01:15:34,039 --> 01:15:35,640
who, for nearly a decade,

1440
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,800
exploited and abused
young women and men

1441
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:42,319
emotionally, physically,
and sexually

1442
01:15:42,359 --> 01:15:43,800
for his own financial gain.

1443
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:44,640
[ Camera shutters clicking ]

1444
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:46,479
The indictment contained

1445
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,079
sex trafficking,
sex trafficking conspiracy,

1446
01:15:49,119 --> 01:15:50,439
racketeering conspiracy,

1447
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:55,079
extortion, money laundering --
a vast set of charges.

1448
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:57,800
[ Camera shutter
clicking continuously ]

1449
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,600
I heard about Larry
being arrested

1450
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,119
on just a like
a Google News alert.

1451
01:16:03,159 --> 01:16:04,720
Just popped up
and said he was arrested

1452
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,159
and so I was worried
about what Iban might do.

1453
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,560
Just because of his level
of devotion towards him,

1454
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,159
that this looked like,
in Larry's world,

1455
01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:17,800
the culmination of,
"Everyone's trying to get me."

1456
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,640
Now, they got him
and I had no idea, you know,

1457
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,560
what he had put in his head,
what he should do.

1458
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:28,600
**

1459
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,920
I went to bed and, about 10:30,
11:00 at night,

1460
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:34,800
[ Siren wailing ]
hear, you know,
a knock on the door.

1461
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,920
And it was a Linn County
sheriff's deputy.

1462
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,880
He initially asks if I know
someone named "Eye-ban,"

1463
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,039
because he, obviously, doesn't
know how to pronounce his name.

1464
01:16:43,079 --> 01:16:45,520
And I was thinking,
"Oh, crap, what did he do?"

1465
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,760
But then he is asking
about his tattoos

1466
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,159
or if he has
any identifiable markers.

1467
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:56,359
So, now, I'm like, "Okay, like
[ Laughing ] wha--

1468
01:16:56,399 --> 01:16:57,800
what's going on?"

1469
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,399
And I guess the point is like,
"Oh, he was found dead."

1470
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:05,600
**

1471
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,640
To my knowledge,
Iban tried to slit his wrists

1472
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:10,520
and was unsuccessful

1473
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:12,399
and then got up
and walked into traffic

1474
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:14,560
and laid down on a highway.

1475
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:19,479
[ Melancholy tune plays ]

1476
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:26,600
**

1477
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:30,000
**

1478
01:17:30,039 --> 01:17:33,800
And it seemed like Iban created
like a rabbit hole for himself

1479
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,640
that he couldn't get out of
with that paranoia.

1480
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,880
At the end of the day,
I think that it's all on Larry.

1481
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,399
I think that,
if it wasn't for him,

1482
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,399
Iban, you know, he might still
have mental health struggles,

1483
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:50,279
but not to that degree.

1484
01:17:50,319 --> 01:17:53,520
I absolutely blame Larry 100%
for Iban's death.

1485
01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:59,840
[ Suspenseful music plays ]

1486
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:02,399
Felicia was talking
to the government,

1487
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,800
but she still, essentially,
was on Larry's side.

1488
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,199
And then, at a certain point,

1489
01:18:07,239 --> 01:18:08,840
she kind of came
to a realization

1490
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:13,399
and began actually cooperating
and turned on Larry.

1491
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:18,000
Santos, he was played videos
of what Larry had done to him

1492
01:18:18,039 --> 01:18:20,880
and then he just realized like,
"I'm being abused,"

1493
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,560
and he began cooperating
as well.

1494
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:27,399
So, Felicia, Santos, Yalitza,
Claudia, and Dan,

1495
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:29,760
they all handed over documents

1496
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,840
and spent innumerable hours
talking to the government.

1497
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,239
Isabella was initially
described as a victim.

1498
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,640
The government was hoping
that she would also flip.

1499
01:18:42,039 --> 01:18:43,600
Probably expecting
that she would

1500
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:44,560
and she didn't.

1501
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:48,000
**

1502
01:18:54,319 --> 01:18:55,319
Reporter:
Headlines for you.

1503
01:18:55,359 --> 01:18:56,600
This out of New York --

1504
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,119
A dad accused of running
a sex cult

1505
01:18:59,159 --> 01:19:01,640
from his daughter's dorm room.
Remember this?

1506
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,680
He's due in court
in the next half hour.

1507
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,239
Reporter #2:
Ray's charged with nine counts,
including extortion,

1508
01:19:06,279 --> 01:19:08,479
money laundering,
and sex trafficking.

1509
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,560
The prosecutor called Ray
a flight risk

1510
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,640
and a danger to the community.

1511
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,039
The government described Talia;

1512
01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:17,279
and Gordon Ray,
Larry's stepfather;

1513
01:19:17,319 --> 01:19:21,279
as coconspirators,
but neither have been charged.

1514
01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:23,600
Talia is the ultimate
true believer

1515
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,760
because not only
has she continued

1516
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:28,880
to stick by her father,

1517
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,680
her father is a blood relative

1518
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:33,680
and I think that
may have figured

1519
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,279
into the prosecutive
decisions here.

1520
01:19:36,319 --> 01:19:41,560
The idea of charging a daughter
for believing her father's lies,

1521
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,600
going back all the way
to childhood,

1522
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,680
it could be too much for a jury,

1523
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,960
just distracting
from the case at hand.

1524
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,600
Larry appears to have
essentially insulated

1525
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:56,159
his immediate family

1526
01:19:56,199 --> 01:20:00,680
from the most incriminating
parts of what he was doing.

1527
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,880
But he had Isabella
recording information

1528
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,560
about the money coming
from Claudia,

1529
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,199
which makes her
a direct accessory.

1530
01:20:07,239 --> 01:20:15,680
**

1531
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:22,680
**

1532
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:24,920
Where there's a trial
and people have

1533
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,600
to get up on the stand and talk

1534
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,479
about what they experienced,

1535
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,199
what they saw,
what happened to them,

1536
01:20:31,239 --> 01:20:34,239
I can't think of anything
that could be harder, really.

1537
01:20:34,279 --> 01:20:42,199
**

1538
01:20:42,239 --> 01:20:46,119
First of all, you have to sit
there in front of your abuser.

1539
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:49,640
You probably haven't seen
that person in, perhaps, years.

1540
01:20:51,319 --> 01:20:53,439
To have that person
looking at you,

1541
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,760
trying to shut you up
with their eyes.

1542
01:20:57,359 --> 01:20:58,680
They deserve awards

1543
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,520
because they're helping
bring these people down.

1544
01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:05,079
Larry Ray's trial was
a jury trial,

1545
01:21:05,119 --> 01:21:08,239
so, you've got to convince
a group of citizens,

1546
01:21:08,279 --> 01:21:10,239
beyond a reasonable doubt,

1547
01:21:10,279 --> 01:21:13,920
that these cult members were
truly, against their will,

1548
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:17,640
unable to consent
to what was done to them.

1549
01:21:19,119 --> 01:21:23,119
Larry recorded everything
and we got to watch it.

1550
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,079
And it was really hard to watch

1551
01:21:26,119 --> 01:21:28,800
because Larry's physically
beating them.

1552
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:32,960
The more I heard,
the more I realized

1553
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:37,640
that Larry Ray was far more
of a demon

1554
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:39,680
than anyone ever imagined.

1555
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,279
I think the problem
for the defense was,

1556
01:21:44,319 --> 01:21:46,039
no matter how you spin this,

1557
01:21:46,079 --> 01:21:49,239
you're facing incredibly
damaging videos

1558
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:52,439
of your client
physically harming people.

1559
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:57,119
**

1560
01:21:57,159 --> 01:22:00,840
The witnesses were
remarkably composed,

1561
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,359
considering what they
had gone through

1562
01:22:03,399 --> 01:22:07,079
and the nature of what they were
describing for the jury --

1563
01:22:07,119 --> 01:22:09,720
the torture,
the humiliation, the shame.

1564
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,680
So, imagine this incredibly
vulnerable person

1565
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,880
who was part of this and having
to talk about what happened,

1566
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:20,119
what was done to you,
and to say that publicly.

1567
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,840
That's hard.
That's tough.

1568
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,039
Claudia really had
a pretty high burden

1569
01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:29,720
because she was
a sex trafficking victim,

1570
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,880
so, it was not easy, I'm sure,

1571
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,239
for her to sit there
and recount,

1572
01:22:34,279 --> 01:22:35,840
in laborious detail,

1573
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:38,079
all of the things
that had happened to her.

1574
01:22:38,119 --> 01:22:40,960
All of a sudden,
as Claudia is describing

1575
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:42,399
being a forced prostitute,

1576
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:45,600
one of Larry's lawyers stands up
and asks for a break

1577
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,840
and, usually, during testimony,
that doesn't really happen.

1578
01:22:50,119 --> 01:22:53,640
He seems to go
through some kind of seizure

1579
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:55,279
in the courtroom, right there.

1580
01:22:55,319 --> 01:22:56,800
[ Siren wailing ]

1581
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:00,279
And he has to be carried
out of the courthouse

1582
01:23:00,319 --> 01:23:01,880
on a stretcher.

1583
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:03,880
And he's making like
eye contact with people,

1584
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:05,680
like he's trying to like see
who's there,

1585
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:07,119
how many people are around him

1586
01:23:07,159 --> 01:23:09,000
as he gets put
into the ambulance.

1587
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:13,079
In the witness room,
you can audibly hear

1588
01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:14,840
Claudia crying
as we're all walking out,

1589
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:16,800
trying to figure out
what's happening.

1590
01:23:19,119 --> 01:23:20,680
And I said, "I know him.

1591
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,600
I know exactly what he's doing.

1592
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:25,680
He's trying to influence
the jury.

1593
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:29,720
He's trying to create
this self-pity thing."

1594
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:31,640
I said,
"He's doing it on purpose."

1595
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:39,680
**

1596
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,640
**

1597
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:44,680
As with anything related
to Larry,

1598
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:46,680
you have to expect some kind
of curveball.

1599
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,079
I mean, is he going to be able
to like, somehow,

1600
01:23:49,119 --> 01:23:51,600
at the last minute,
like prolong this

1601
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:53,800
so that the victims
no longer want to testify

1602
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,680
or they're unsettled,
and what happens?

1603
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:58,199
You know,
it didn't end up working.

1604
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:00,239
There were two seizures
and then there weren't any more.

1605
01:24:00,279 --> 01:24:03,239
[ Siren wailing ]

1606
01:24:03,279 --> 01:24:12,159
**

1607
01:24:12,199 --> 01:24:15,720
In all, the jury only
deliberated for four hours,

1608
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:17,920
which, for a trial
that lasted a month

1609
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,560
and for as many counts
as he was accused of,

1610
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,239
kind of speaks
to where the jury was

1611
01:24:22,279 --> 01:24:24,079
before they even got
to the verdict room.

1612
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:26,840
It didn't take the jury
very long

1613
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:28,880
to come back
with a unanimous verdict

1614
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,680
that Larry was guilty
on all counts.

1615
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:34,079
Kerik:
He knew it was coming.

1616
01:24:34,119 --> 01:24:36,560
The court testimony
was overwhelming.

1617
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:38,760
I knew he would be convicted.

1618
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:41,880
Marcus:
There is justice
for the victims.

1619
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:44,399
They wanted Larry
to get arrested

1620
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:46,079
and indicted and convicted

1621
01:24:46,119 --> 01:24:48,520
and I think it was
really powerful for them.

1622
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,920
They could now
resume their lives.

1623
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,319
They see justice
has been served for him.

1624
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:02,079
There's nothing harsh enough
that could happen to him,

1625
01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:04,199
based on what he did
to those kids.

1626
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:08,479
There certainly have been
other evil cult leaders,

1627
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,039
but the extent of what he did

1628
01:25:10,079 --> 01:25:12,079
and the amount of time
he was allowed to do it,

1629
01:25:12,119 --> 01:25:15,600
with such concentration
and precision...

1630
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,960
...that was almost
beyond anything I've heard of.

1631
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,880
I don't think there's
an ounce of regret.

1632
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,560
He just destroyed
people's lives.

1633
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,680
He loved feeling powerful.

1634
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,359
And I almost call him
a power addict.

1635
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:34,439
The way that you can judge
other people is

1636
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,479
how they treat other humans.

1637
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,239
Just a horrific individual.

1638
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,720
There's this
inevitable question

1639
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:48,520
of why nothing was done earlier.

1640
01:25:49,319 --> 01:25:51,079
The guilt that must be felt,

1641
01:25:51,119 --> 01:25:53,199
not only by Sarah Lawrence
administrators,

1642
01:25:53,239 --> 01:25:58,479
but the guilt of the victims'
parents must be painful.

1643
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,079
I have no trouble
blaming Sarah Lawrence

1644
01:26:01,119 --> 01:26:03,239
for letting somebody move
into the dorm.

1645
01:26:03,279 --> 01:26:04,560
What was Sarah Lawrence to do?

1646
01:26:05,119 --> 01:26:07,800
They could've made sure he got
out of the dorm.

1647
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:09,479
But I'm not sure,
had they gotten him

1648
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:10,640
out of the dorm sooner,

1649
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:12,079
anything would've
been different.

1650
01:26:12,119 --> 01:26:15,079
The really troublesome stuff
happens later,

1651
01:26:15,119 --> 01:26:17,279
at the apartment
on the Upper East Side.

1652
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,560
Larry Ray was one of the most
skilled con artists

1653
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,399
I've seen in 25 years.

1654
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:28,640
There may not have been much
more that you could've done.

1655
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:31,279
I think the biggest question
about this case is

1656
01:26:31,319 --> 01:26:33,800
why Larry Ray did what he did.

1657
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:36,920
In terms of what drove him,

1658
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:41,560
I don't know if it's as simple
as he wanted money and sex,

1659
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:43,039
although I think
he certainly did.

1660
01:26:44,119 --> 01:26:46,720
He was like somebody who,
for decades,

1661
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,720
was able to carve out a space
for himself

1662
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:51,119
outside of the typical rules

1663
01:26:51,159 --> 01:26:54,079
where he could exploit
people's vulnerabilities.

1664
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,960
And it was these exact
same tools

1665
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,720
which eventually led
to his downfall

1666
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,760
because he recorded
his own crimes.

1667
01:27:03,319 --> 01:27:06,880
Part of his defense was that he
really believed the conspiracy

1668
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:10,920
and that these kids were bad
actors working for Bernie Kerik.

1669
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:13,479
Whether he believed it or not,

1670
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:16,960
it's hard to say
why he would ever,

1671
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,279
and how he could,
torture these young people

1672
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:24,000
so extensively,
in the ways that he did.

1673
01:27:24,039 --> 01:27:33,680
**

1674
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:43,680
**

1675
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:53,680
**

1676
01:27:53,720 --> 01:28:03,680
**

1677
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:13,680
**

1678
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:23,680
**

1679
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:33,680
**

1680
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:43,680
**

1681
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,239
**