1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:14,222 --> 00:00:17,475 [eerie music playing] 4 00:00:25,442 --> 00:00:27,694 -[birds chirping] -[boys talking indistinctly] 5 00:00:28,987 --> 00:00:30,989 [somber music playing] 6 00:00:37,954 --> 00:00:40,290 [man] The values of the Boy Scouts of America 7 00:00:40,373 --> 00:00:44,210 were taking young men and giving them a role in life. 8 00:00:45,211 --> 00:00:47,255 It was different. It was a guiding tool. 9 00:00:50,508 --> 00:00:53,845 [Doug Kennedy] I thought Scouts was a great thing. I really did. 10 00:00:54,888 --> 00:00:59,476 It was Norman Rockwell. It was Mom, Pop, and apple pie. 11 00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:03,772 Memorial Day parades, 12 00:01:03,855 --> 00:01:06,608 and the Scout troops would be holding the flag. 13 00:01:07,317 --> 00:01:09,611 It was America and patriotism. 14 00:01:13,490 --> 00:01:15,533 [Patrick Boyle] To be a Boy Scout meant something. 15 00:01:16,201 --> 00:01:19,537 It grew into the biggest youth club in America, 16 00:01:20,330 --> 00:01:22,457 and maybe the most famous youth club in the world. 17 00:01:22,540 --> 00:01:24,542 [music flourishes] 18 00:01:26,753 --> 00:01:30,507 Your Scout law commands you to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, 19 00:01:30,590 --> 00:01:32,550 friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, 20 00:01:32,634 --> 00:01:35,762 cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. 21 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:48,191 [Christopher Haywood] Pitching tents, making fires, 22 00:01:48,274 --> 00:01:52,195 cooking things on an open fire, and just sitting around telling stories. 23 00:01:52,278 --> 00:01:54,405 [Doug Kennedy] Learning how to fend for yourself, 24 00:01:54,489 --> 00:01:57,575 learning to cook, learning to set up a camp, 25 00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:02,247 learning to identify plants… [chuckling] …and poison ivy especially. 26 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:06,042 You go to summer camp, and you learn to shoot a rifle, 27 00:02:06,126 --> 00:02:09,337 and you learn archery, and you learn how to build a rope bridge, 28 00:02:09,420 --> 00:02:11,548 and you learn life-saving first aid. 29 00:02:14,008 --> 00:02:17,720 [Christopher Hurley] Boy Scouts, for me, just represented the best of America. 30 00:02:20,056 --> 00:02:23,685 But the Boy Scouts had this dirty little secret. 31 00:02:25,895 --> 00:02:27,772 It was all just veneer 32 00:02:27,856 --> 00:02:30,984 to mask what was a very dangerous organization. 33 00:02:31,484 --> 00:02:33,987 [ominous music playing] 34 00:02:38,283 --> 00:02:40,451 [anchorwoman] Today, the Boy Scouts of America, 35 00:02:40,535 --> 00:02:42,787 one of the biggest youth organizations in the country, 36 00:02:42,871 --> 00:02:44,789 filed for bankruptcy protection. 37 00:02:44,873 --> 00:02:47,208 The Scouts face an onslaught of lawsuits 38 00:02:47,292 --> 00:02:49,544 from men who claimed they were sexually abused, 39 00:02:49,627 --> 00:02:52,922 sometimes going back decades, by scoutmasters and other leaders. 40 00:02:53,006 --> 00:02:57,468 [male reporter] More than 82,000 alleged victims span generations. 41 00:02:57,552 --> 00:02:59,554 [music intensifies] 42 00:03:00,805 --> 00:03:03,683 [Drew Tessier] People need to understand what happened. What took place. 43 00:03:04,267 --> 00:03:07,312 [female reporter] A day of reckoning for the Boy Scouts of America. 44 00:03:07,395 --> 00:03:09,397 [male reporter] An American institution in turmoil. 45 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,525 The Boy Scouts of America filing for bankruptcy. 46 00:03:13,109 --> 00:03:17,739 [Tim Kosnoff] This is history's largest case of child sexual abuse 47 00:03:17,822 --> 00:03:19,616 connected to one organization. 48 00:03:19,699 --> 00:03:22,535 Larger than any other youth-serving organization, 49 00:03:22,619 --> 00:03:27,373 larger than the Catholic Church, larger than the Southern Baptist Church. 50 00:03:28,291 --> 00:03:31,669 [man 2] They wanna know what happened. They want the truth to come out. 51 00:03:31,753 --> 00:03:33,796 And they want to know who knew what, 52 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,716 when did they know it, and how did this happen to them? 53 00:03:37,425 --> 00:03:40,178 [Anthony Mandich] They don't want to face the evil that lurks within. 54 00:03:40,261 --> 00:03:42,472 There's a cancer in the Boy Scouts. 55 00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:45,516 [Nussbaum] This is something I held on as a secret, even after everything. 56 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,143 Something I never told anybody. 57 00:03:47,852 --> 00:03:49,103 Not even my own children. 58 00:03:49,187 --> 00:03:50,605 [dramatic music playing] 59 00:03:50,688 --> 00:03:52,482 I got a text from one of my children today. 60 00:03:52,565 --> 00:03:55,318 They said, "I wanna let you know I'm very proud of what you're doing." 61 00:03:55,985 --> 00:03:57,362 "And I know it's not easy, 62 00:03:58,321 --> 00:04:00,782 but, uh, I'm proud of you." 63 00:04:02,116 --> 00:04:04,869 [Kosnoff] This is a human rights movement we're talking about today. 64 00:04:04,953 --> 00:04:06,913 A civil rights movement for children 65 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:11,501 against one of the biggest offenders in the world, the Boy Scouts of America. 66 00:04:14,963 --> 00:04:17,882 I don't care if I bring the whole temple down 67 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:19,259 on everybody's heads. 68 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:20,969 I will not stand for this. 69 00:04:21,719 --> 00:04:22,887 This is an abomination. 70 00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:25,682 [dramatic music playing] 71 00:04:35,066 --> 00:04:37,068 [music fades] 72 00:04:38,987 --> 00:04:41,614 [birds chirping in distance] 73 00:04:53,001 --> 00:04:54,794 I am Detective Mike, 74 00:04:54,877 --> 00:04:57,964 former detective of the City of Plano Police Department. 75 00:04:58,715 --> 00:05:00,008 I became a detective, 76 00:05:00,091 --> 00:05:02,552 and I got on the SWAT team about the same time in '86. 77 00:05:03,344 --> 00:05:05,888 Always investigated crimes against children. 78 00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:06,973 [Johnson] Hello. 79 00:05:07,056 --> 00:05:07,974 Hi. 80 00:05:08,057 --> 00:05:11,561 [Johnson] So, a child- and family-friendly room like this is where 81 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:16,399 any police detective or an advocate for a victim, child or teen, 82 00:05:16,482 --> 00:05:19,319 that has experienced any type of abuse or sexual abuse, 83 00:05:19,402 --> 00:05:21,821 this is where we sit and talk to them, interview them. 84 00:05:21,904 --> 00:05:25,616 This is huge, this whole area for all police departments. 85 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,077 Uh, that commitment to the, you know, 86 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:32,874 that victim-sensitive trauma-informed care, uh, 87 00:05:32,957 --> 00:05:36,586 that we provide to families and victims after they've experienced, 88 00:05:36,669 --> 00:05:40,840 what for many of them is arguably, the worst, uh, experiences of their life. 89 00:05:41,716 --> 00:05:45,386 For 16 years, I did nothing but investigate child sexual abuse. 90 00:05:46,387 --> 00:05:49,265 So I've interviewed a lot of kids, varying ages, 91 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:52,352 and interrogated a lot of perpetrators, talked to a lot of parents, 92 00:05:52,435 --> 00:05:54,228 been to a lot of crime scenes, 93 00:05:54,312 --> 00:05:57,106 as well as worked on some things federally and nationally 94 00:05:57,190 --> 00:05:59,150 with two different administrations. 95 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:01,652 [interviewer] Before we get into what happened later, 96 00:06:01,736 --> 00:06:04,364 I mean, just start with when you were first hired by the Boy Scouts. 97 00:06:04,447 --> 00:06:07,867 You were the youth protection director at national headquarters. 98 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:09,911 Uh, why did you decide to take the job? 99 00:06:09,994 --> 00:06:13,122 So I will, uh, you know, I always ask people when I get asked that, 100 00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:16,167 "Do you want the truth, or what I was told to say?" [laughing] 101 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:19,837 I mean, just-- You know, so-- I'm gonna tell you the truth, all right? 102 00:06:19,921 --> 00:06:22,423 -[interviewer] I actually wanna know both. -You wanna-- Okay. 103 00:06:22,507 --> 00:06:24,884 I wanna tell you the truth. How's that? I can do the truth. 104 00:06:24,967 --> 00:06:27,303 [gentle, intriguing music playing] 105 00:06:27,387 --> 00:06:29,055 [Johnson] When I started in 2010 106 00:06:29,138 --> 00:06:32,350 as youth protection director for the Boy Scouts of America, 107 00:06:32,433 --> 00:06:34,852 I was excited. 108 00:06:34,936 --> 00:06:36,270 I was pumped. 109 00:06:36,354 --> 00:06:39,357 I was a little anxious because, you know, what is it? 110 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,859 This was the first position like this 111 00:06:41,943 --> 00:06:45,696 for any major youth-serving organization, or any youth-serving organization ever, 112 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:48,116 especially somebody with my background and skill sets. 113 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:53,496 I thought I was going to work to keep kids safe in a major institution. 114 00:06:56,582 --> 00:06:59,127 The Boy Scouts are, at the national level, 115 00:06:59,210 --> 00:07:02,171 and even at the council level, all about the brand. 116 00:07:02,755 --> 00:07:04,173 It's a beautiful brand. 117 00:07:04,674 --> 00:07:07,969 Boy Scouts of America conjures up parades, and apple pie, 118 00:07:08,052 --> 00:07:10,054 American flag, you know, and all that. 119 00:07:10,138 --> 00:07:14,600 And they don't like anything too negative that's associated with the brand. 120 00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:18,438 So I come in and I say, "Okay. We're a high-risk organization," 121 00:07:18,521 --> 00:07:21,649 just as a general discussion point, because it is. 122 00:07:21,732 --> 00:07:23,526 "What can we do to keep kids safe, 123 00:07:23,609 --> 00:07:25,528 given that we're a high-risk organization?" 124 00:07:26,988 --> 00:07:28,823 You are a youth-serving organization. 125 00:07:28,906 --> 00:07:32,326 You're the Boy Scouts of America youth-serving organization. All right? 126 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:33,744 You have no choice. 127 00:07:33,828 --> 00:07:38,499 You have to be beyond reproach on something as very basic as that. 128 00:07:39,083 --> 00:07:41,085 [interviewer] What were they telling you to say? 129 00:07:41,169 --> 00:07:43,421 Oh, that Boy Scouts of America is safe. 130 00:07:43,504 --> 00:07:46,007 That Boy Scouts of America is the gold standard. 131 00:07:46,090 --> 00:07:51,053 That Boy Scouts of America has a rigorous application of screening process. 132 00:07:51,137 --> 00:07:54,515 That the Boy Scouts of America conducts criminal background checks 133 00:07:54,599 --> 00:07:56,142 of all of its leaders. 134 00:07:56,225 --> 00:08:01,564 Uh, you know, that the youth protection program is better and by far 135 00:08:01,647 --> 00:08:04,567 than any other, uh, youth-serving organization program. 136 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:07,403 [interviewer] They wanted you to project their image of safety. 137 00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:10,573 -Market this image of safety. -That's not what you were seeing though. 138 00:08:10,656 --> 00:08:12,283 That's totally not what I'm seeing. 139 00:08:12,909 --> 00:08:16,704 I became aware that they weren't telling me everything. 140 00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:18,498 They were withholding information. 141 00:08:19,123 --> 00:08:21,125 [eerie music playing] 142 00:08:23,628 --> 00:08:25,630 [papers rustling] 143 00:08:30,593 --> 00:08:33,679 [Boyle] I kind of stumbled onto the story just out of pure curiosity 144 00:08:33,763 --> 00:08:34,597 as a reporter. 145 00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:40,394 I had read a news brief in the New York Times back in the '80s 146 00:08:40,478 --> 00:08:43,606 about one Scout leader being convicted of abusing Scouts. 147 00:08:43,689 --> 00:08:47,401 And I clipped the brief out and put it in my ideas file that every reporter has, 148 00:08:47,485 --> 00:08:49,153 and I forgot about it. 149 00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:51,614 Then years later, I was working in Washington 150 00:08:51,697 --> 00:08:55,076 and read in my own newspaper about a lawsuit in Virginia 151 00:08:55,159 --> 00:08:58,788 in which a boy, who had been molested by a Scout leader, had sued the Scouts. 152 00:08:58,871 --> 00:09:00,706 And, as a part of that lawsuit, 153 00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:03,918 the Boy Scouts had to turn over to this-- the lawyer for the boy 154 00:09:04,001 --> 00:09:07,171 confidential files about people who had been kicked out of Scouting 155 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:09,298 for alleged child molestation. 156 00:09:13,386 --> 00:09:15,096 And I said, "Wow." 157 00:09:18,474 --> 00:09:20,059 I went over to Virginia naively 158 00:09:20,142 --> 00:09:22,853 with one legal pad in my hand to look at the files. 159 00:09:22,937 --> 00:09:26,148 I figured I'd spend a few hours there. And I began reading them and taking notes. 160 00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:30,611 And I quickly realized there is a lot more information here than I even imagined. 161 00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:34,156 I was blown away by opening these files. 162 00:09:36,701 --> 00:09:40,246 Oh, this is from Scouting in 1923. I've never seen this. 163 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:46,502 So, these are pages from Scouting magazine in the 1920s 164 00:09:47,336 --> 00:09:52,174 where the Scouts have actually written about people kicked out from Scouting. 165 00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:55,177 "Red flag--" There's a headline here. "Red-flag this man." 166 00:09:55,886 --> 00:09:57,096 "Red-flag this man." 167 00:09:58,639 --> 00:09:59,807 "Warning." Wow. 168 00:10:02,935 --> 00:10:04,520 The Confidential Files, as they're known, 169 00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:07,231 really began back in England right at the beginning. 170 00:10:08,024 --> 00:10:10,401 Soon after the Scouts were founded in England in 1908, 171 00:10:10,484 --> 00:10:12,820 the Scouts there realized they had a problem 172 00:10:12,903 --> 00:10:16,407 because Scouting has always attracted men who are attracted to boys. 173 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:19,535 The struggle for the company has been to keep them out and keep it quiet. 174 00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,872 And these efforts started back in England 175 00:10:22,955 --> 00:10:25,082 when they had to kick out the doctor 176 00:10:25,166 --> 00:10:28,127 at the very first Boy Scout camp in the world. 177 00:10:32,673 --> 00:10:36,761 In the United States, they created, what they called, the Red Flag List. 178 00:10:38,387 --> 00:10:42,058 There was a Times story in 1935 where they talked about the Red Flag List. 179 00:10:45,770 --> 00:10:47,563 This Red Flag List in the United States 180 00:10:47,647 --> 00:10:50,775 eventually evolved into what they call the "Ineligible Volunteer File." 181 00:10:52,026 --> 00:10:54,403 But in the Scouts they call it the Confidential Files, 182 00:10:54,487 --> 00:10:57,865 and for very good reason because they intended to keep everything confidential. 183 00:10:58,866 --> 00:11:00,868 Some people called it the "perversion files." 184 00:11:05,247 --> 00:11:08,167 During that time, we didn't know how many files there were. 185 00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:11,504 I had the 231 original files, 186 00:11:11,587 --> 00:11:14,090 plus I supplemented it with my own information. 187 00:11:15,091 --> 00:11:16,717 These files were so sensitive 188 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:19,053 that the Boy Scouts did everything they could to make sure 189 00:11:19,136 --> 00:11:21,389 that they could not be seen by parents, 190 00:11:21,472 --> 00:11:25,101 by police, by prosecutors, even by other Scout leaders. 191 00:11:25,935 --> 00:11:28,312 They had it under lock and key in national headquarters. 192 00:11:28,396 --> 00:11:30,272 And they knew how sensitive this was. 193 00:11:35,194 --> 00:11:38,364 The Boy Scouts knew that for this product to sell well, 194 00:11:38,447 --> 00:11:41,742 that they had to have the highest integrity among the Boy Scout leaders. 195 00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:43,369 So, parents were convinced 196 00:11:43,452 --> 00:11:46,622 that when you put your boy in the hands of the Boy Scouts, 197 00:11:46,706 --> 00:11:49,834 you are handing them over to the most responsible men, 198 00:11:49,917 --> 00:11:52,378 the most honest men, the men of the highest integrity. 199 00:11:52,461 --> 00:11:54,088 So, not only was your boy safe, 200 00:11:54,171 --> 00:11:56,799 but these men were great role models for your child. 201 00:11:57,758 --> 00:11:59,969 I have to suspect part of it was also strategic. 202 00:12:00,052 --> 00:12:02,346 They didn't want to open this up 203 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:06,308 because if they started talking very bluntly about sex abuse in Scouting, 204 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:09,270 it might scare parents, scare sponsors, and they didn't need that. 205 00:12:09,353 --> 00:12:12,314 'Cause they were doing fine. The program was making money, lots of Scouts. 206 00:12:15,484 --> 00:12:18,904 I was just stunned by the fact that I would talk to Boy Scout officials 207 00:12:18,988 --> 00:12:23,200 about my discoveries in the files, and I was giving them news. 208 00:12:23,784 --> 00:12:28,330 I knew things about abuse in Scouting that nobody in Scouting claimed to know. 209 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,793 I knew what your numbers were. I knew what the patterns were. 210 00:12:32,877 --> 00:12:34,879 I knew where your vulnerabilities were. 211 00:12:37,173 --> 00:12:38,924 They were naive about sex abuse in general, 212 00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:42,553 but they had essentially a product defect that they were ignoring. 213 00:12:43,137 --> 00:12:45,639 And it was that this organization was built in a way 214 00:12:45,723 --> 00:12:48,684 that molesters could get in, abuse kids and get away with it. 215 00:12:48,768 --> 00:12:49,935 [eerie music playing] 216 00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:53,856 When I first did the story and said there were 400 cases, 217 00:12:53,939 --> 00:12:56,400 people told me I was making a big thing out of nothing. 218 00:12:56,484 --> 00:12:58,110 That, really, there's not that many cases. 219 00:12:58,194 --> 00:13:00,863 I got a lot of angry letters from people saying, 220 00:13:00,946 --> 00:13:03,866 "You're smearing the Boy Scouts over a problem that's minuscule." 221 00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:05,409 People kept using that word. 222 00:13:09,079 --> 00:13:12,792 "How dare you accuse the Scouts of this. You're trying to ruin this organization." 223 00:13:12,875 --> 00:13:15,711 You really had to go out on a limb 224 00:13:15,795 --> 00:13:17,922 to make a public accusation against the Boy Scouts 225 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:21,175 because you were accusing, usually, a respected community leader 226 00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:24,553 of what many people would consider the worst crime imaginable. 227 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,266 But there is a truth there, 228 00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:32,394 and even if it's an inconvenient truth, I'm gonna get at the truth. 229 00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:36,315 And I ended up being one of the ways that these files became public. 230 00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:42,613 Every file was stunning first because of the story that it tells. 231 00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:46,492 But collectively, they told a different kind of story. 232 00:13:51,413 --> 00:13:52,665 I'll give you an example. 233 00:13:53,290 --> 00:13:58,045 It wasn't unusual for a leader to get into the Scouts after having been banned. 234 00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:02,007 Thomas Hacker was based primarily in Illinois. 235 00:14:03,008 --> 00:14:05,845 [ominous music playing] 236 00:14:13,227 --> 00:14:15,229 [children's voices echo in distance] 237 00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:20,860 [Mark Eaton] Our troop, we did a lot of campouts. 238 00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:22,194 We did a lot of camping. 239 00:14:23,028 --> 00:14:27,950 At the time, it was just, uh, a nice guy that was taking an interest in me 240 00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:29,827 and wanted to get to know me. 241 00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:35,165 He became a leader, and then ultimately became our scoutmaster of the troop. 242 00:14:35,249 --> 00:14:37,042 He was deacon of the church. 243 00:14:38,043 --> 00:14:43,340 He was very much so a authoritarian figure in my life growing up. 244 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:47,469 It took me until I was in my early 40s 245 00:14:47,553 --> 00:14:51,223 to realize I was a victim, and I hadn't done something wrong. 246 00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:55,603 [voice breaking] That somehow at 10, I should have known better. 247 00:14:58,564 --> 00:15:00,649 Somehow, at about 11 or 12, 248 00:15:01,317 --> 00:15:04,278 I should have been able to see what this guy was doing. 249 00:15:04,361 --> 00:15:08,574 Somehow at 13 or 14, I should have said something. 250 00:15:08,657 --> 00:15:10,659 [thunder rumbles] 251 00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:14,496 The touching, it was pretty much every campout. 252 00:15:15,247 --> 00:15:19,335 There's, you know, six to eight kids in there, 253 00:15:19,418 --> 00:15:22,087 and everybody's pants down. 254 00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:25,925 It was a tough conversation. 255 00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:28,510 I really didn't tell my parents much. 256 00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:32,640 I gave them enough of what they needed, but I didn't go into details. 257 00:15:34,683 --> 00:15:35,809 Just feeling… 258 00:15:37,436 --> 00:15:38,687 Like, dude, you-- you… 259 00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:39,939 [sighs] 260 00:15:43,651 --> 00:15:45,486 You took my childhood. 261 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:48,405 You took my… my growing up. 262 00:15:50,407 --> 00:15:52,743 I was so angry. 263 00:15:53,243 --> 00:15:56,580 I was never really good at controlling my temper. 264 00:15:56,664 --> 00:15:58,666 And just being frustrated and… 265 00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:03,003 punching holes in walls. 266 00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:08,300 Eagle Scout is the highest rank in Boy Scouts. 267 00:16:08,384 --> 00:16:09,927 It's a pretty big achievement. 268 00:16:10,010 --> 00:16:13,555 And it's just this big ceremony, at times solemn. 269 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:16,767 You get dignitaries, state senators, 270 00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:20,771 or the local mayor come in and give a speech. 271 00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:23,732 -[interviewer] He's there watching this. -Mm-hmm. 272 00:16:25,234 --> 00:16:29,530 How do you take this award ceremony and then try to tie it together 273 00:16:29,613 --> 00:16:34,702 with this hidden-in-plain-sight type of abuse that's going on? 274 00:16:34,785 --> 00:16:36,787 [sad music playing] 275 00:16:37,371 --> 00:16:41,583 I want to take some of the stigma away from it, from boys being victims. 276 00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:45,045 I don't care what anybody says, there's still a very bad stigma 277 00:16:45,129 --> 00:16:48,173 about a boy being a victim of sexual abuse by another male. 278 00:16:49,049 --> 00:16:52,219 I want to take that stigma away because it's not the boy's fault. 279 00:16:52,886 --> 00:16:57,474 [reporter] A South Suburban scoutmaster is in jail tonight on $500,000 bond, 280 00:16:57,558 --> 00:17:00,477 charged with sexually abusing three boys in his troop. 281 00:17:00,561 --> 00:17:04,314 Thomas Hacker faces five counts of aggravated criminal sexual assault. 282 00:17:04,398 --> 00:17:07,234 The boys were members of a scout troop at an Oak Lawn church. 283 00:17:07,317 --> 00:17:10,779 Hacker began working as a scoutmaster for the troop eight years ago. 284 00:17:16,785 --> 00:17:19,913 [Christopher Hurley] Hacker was, in fact, in the IV Files. 285 00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:24,376 When he was discovered at the time, 286 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:27,463 he was the most prolific pedophile 287 00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:32,259 in the history of… maybe of America, or of the world, honestly. 288 00:17:32,342 --> 00:17:35,554 He-- He had molested hundreds of boys. 289 00:17:35,637 --> 00:17:36,764 And they knew that. 290 00:17:36,847 --> 00:17:40,726 And they knew he used their organization to do that. 291 00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:45,606 [Boyle] He would abuse kids, get caught, say, "I'll get help." 292 00:17:45,689 --> 00:17:48,567 "Please don't charge me with a crime. I'll go away." And he'd go away. 293 00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:51,111 And he'd move to another town or move on to another youth group. 294 00:17:51,779 --> 00:17:55,657 [Hurley] This was full sexual, oral, anal, 295 00:17:55,741 --> 00:18:00,829 sexual abuse on dozens of occasions for many of them, 296 00:18:00,913 --> 00:18:03,207 and in group settings. 297 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:08,504 The extent of notice that the Scouting organization had 298 00:18:08,587 --> 00:18:12,883 as to his propensity to molest boys was off the charts. 299 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:19,598 I'd never taken the deposition of a serial pedophile, 300 00:18:19,681 --> 00:18:22,226 and I didn't know what to expect. 301 00:18:24,019 --> 00:18:26,855 My question to him is, "Why did you choose the Boy Scouts?" 302 00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:29,483 And he said, "Because they made it so easy." 303 00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:34,488 They did nothing. They-- They did nothing to put up barriers for him. 304 00:18:35,197 --> 00:18:36,782 And he knew it, and he used it. 305 00:18:44,456 --> 00:18:46,667 We represent 4,000 victims. 306 00:18:47,292 --> 00:18:50,003 The thing I've learned, from now the bankruptcy 307 00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:54,299 and all the other clients I represent, is that there are more Hackers out there. 308 00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,345 There are more that have managed not to get caught. 309 00:18:59,346 --> 00:19:04,309 It takes incredible courage for guys to come forward, and they've-- And… 310 00:19:07,938 --> 00:19:08,814 I'm… 311 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,945 I'm… I'm proud of every single one of them. 312 00:19:16,071 --> 00:19:18,115 It's not easy, and… 313 00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:21,994 You know, you-- you worry… 314 00:19:23,662 --> 00:19:27,082 You know, the burden, you know-- The burden I carry is, you know, 315 00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:30,878 disa-- is possibly disappointing them, so I don't want that. 316 00:19:32,296 --> 00:19:34,298 [birds chirping] 317 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:40,304 [Johnson] "Sexual abuse." Those two words are kind of PG. 318 00:19:41,388 --> 00:19:42,472 It's easy to say. 319 00:19:43,557 --> 00:19:45,559 People are uncomfortable with sexual abuse. 320 00:19:47,227 --> 00:19:50,355 People don't wanna visualize that these young men, and now men, 321 00:19:50,439 --> 00:19:54,151 that are on this lawsuit were having sex with men in their cars, 322 00:19:54,234 --> 00:19:56,528 in tents, at their house. 323 00:19:57,404 --> 00:19:58,280 I say these things, 324 00:19:58,363 --> 00:20:00,240 and I'm not trying to say 'em to incite you, 325 00:20:00,324 --> 00:20:01,950 but that's what sexual abuse is. 326 00:20:02,659 --> 00:20:04,536 We're talking about these men 327 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:08,123 who have experienced or suffered X-rated activities 328 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:12,794 as children in the Scouting program, and who are they gonna talk to about it? 329 00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:17,007 They're still grappling with their own internal experiences, 330 00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:20,052 demons, some of them, with what happened. 331 00:20:24,389 --> 00:20:27,059 My full name is Douglas Kennedy. 332 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:28,727 I go by Doug. 333 00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:31,563 [melancholy music playing] 334 00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:36,860 My father passed away from cancer when I was 13 months old. 335 00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,613 Never knew him. 336 00:20:40,614 --> 00:20:41,949 My mother never remarried. 337 00:20:42,032 --> 00:20:43,325 And this was back in the day 338 00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:46,703 when being a single parent wasn't as common as it was today. 339 00:20:46,787 --> 00:20:49,790 There were a lot of days where we didn't really know 340 00:20:49,873 --> 00:20:53,293 where the next meal was gonna come from, but we were proud. 341 00:20:55,379 --> 00:20:57,798 Eventually, my mother, in the summertime, 342 00:20:57,881 --> 00:21:03,720 got me involved with the YMCA and working at a YMCA day camp. 343 00:21:03,804 --> 00:21:05,055 Around that same time, 344 00:21:05,138 --> 00:21:07,099 I was pretty active in-- in the Boy Scouts. 345 00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:10,143 It was meaningful to me in my life. 346 00:21:10,227 --> 00:21:13,063 But the Scouting movement as a whole, it was fun, 347 00:21:13,146 --> 00:21:14,940 and I thought it had the right mission. 348 00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:21,071 I'm quoted in Boys' Life. "Set the table for lunch." 349 00:21:21,154 --> 00:21:24,324 "'Hamburgers ready in three minutes,' Doug Kennedy shouted." 350 00:21:24,408 --> 00:21:26,451 And my picture's there. 351 00:21:29,913 --> 00:21:33,208 I can still see… the window. 352 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:36,044 There's a porch to the lodge. 353 00:21:36,128 --> 00:21:40,966 Bare light bulb light shines through. I go to sleep like it's any other night. 354 00:21:41,049 --> 00:21:42,926 [sad, eerie music playing] 355 00:21:43,427 --> 00:21:45,846 And I woke up in the middle of the night, 356 00:21:45,929 --> 00:21:48,932 and the camp director had… 357 00:21:50,475 --> 00:21:53,562 pulled the sleeping bag back. 358 00:21:54,104 --> 00:21:56,231 He had pulled my shorts down. 359 00:21:58,358 --> 00:21:59,192 And… 360 00:22:00,902 --> 00:22:03,447 his head was down in my crotch, 361 00:22:04,072 --> 00:22:06,241 and his legs were up wrapped around my head. 362 00:22:06,867 --> 00:22:09,995 And when I say "wrapped around my head," he was naked. 363 00:22:11,455 --> 00:22:14,082 Wrapped around my head, and I-- I could not move. 364 00:22:15,792 --> 00:22:20,255 He was bigger than me, wiry, strong for his size. 365 00:22:22,174 --> 00:22:24,718 And I remember thinking, "What's going on?" 366 00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:27,679 Like this is a joke or funny or something. 367 00:22:28,513 --> 00:22:32,017 And then I realize that he has me in his mouth. 368 00:22:32,893 --> 00:22:37,606 I'm trying to get his legs off from around my head, 369 00:22:37,689 --> 00:22:38,815 and I can't do it. 370 00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:44,154 It's always about power. It's a power dynamic. 371 00:22:44,237 --> 00:22:47,741 He has the power over me, and he knows it on so many levels. 372 00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:48,950 He's my employer. 373 00:22:49,034 --> 00:22:52,662 He's the person who's putting food on the table, the person my mother trusts. 374 00:22:52,746 --> 00:22:54,664 He's the person everybody else is gonna believe. 375 00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:57,876 If I had said anything, 376 00:22:57,959 --> 00:23:01,004 the solution would have been I would have been sent home. 377 00:23:03,256 --> 00:23:04,800 You disassociate. 378 00:23:04,883 --> 00:23:07,260 It's almost like you're looking at yourself. 379 00:23:08,804 --> 00:23:13,558 It's part of a mechanism to say, "Something bad is happening to you." 380 00:23:13,642 --> 00:23:15,852 "But let's get our head somewhere else." 381 00:23:15,936 --> 00:23:18,772 You're separating from the physical part of this. 382 00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:23,068 [voice breaking] But what happened to me… 383 00:23:24,653 --> 00:23:26,154 just took something away. 384 00:23:32,994 --> 00:23:34,287 It felt like forever. 385 00:23:35,247 --> 00:23:37,749 It's a moment in time that's burned into my head. 386 00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:42,087 [morose string music playing] 387 00:23:43,588 --> 00:23:45,340 [Haywood] Christopher Haywood. 388 00:23:46,591 --> 00:23:48,844 Grew up on the South Side of Chicago. 389 00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:53,557 My abuse lasted nine years. 390 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:57,602 It would continue till I was 18. 391 00:23:59,938 --> 00:24:03,358 Being told by him, "No one will believe you. You're a kid." 392 00:24:03,442 --> 00:24:06,736 "And what I'll say, people will believe. They wouldn't believe you." 393 00:24:06,820 --> 00:24:10,615 So, that type of thing has-- has stuck in my mind, 394 00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:15,287 so even him making threats, you know, of hurting somebody close to me. 395 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,874 It could be my mother, my sisters. 396 00:24:18,957 --> 00:24:21,626 Going to the point where he'd say "killing." 397 00:24:22,419 --> 00:24:26,006 Just hearing that as a child, it messes with your psyche. 398 00:24:28,758 --> 00:24:31,636 I just felt at the time just not to say nothing, 399 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,638 just to make sure everybody was all right. 400 00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,559 [Tom Krumins] In my case, he was an older Scout 401 00:24:37,642 --> 00:24:39,269 that had been bullying people. 402 00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:42,939 I tried to say, "Can you leave? I don't want to be here." 403 00:24:43,023 --> 00:24:45,025 And that's when he pulled out the knife. 404 00:24:45,692 --> 00:24:48,028 I tried to push past him once, um… 405 00:24:48,778 --> 00:24:50,238 He pressed the knife right here. 406 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:52,532 Barely pierced the skin, but that was enough. 407 00:24:52,616 --> 00:24:54,117 I-- I knew I was powerless. 408 00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:58,622 As he was assaulting me, he kept saying, 409 00:24:58,705 --> 00:25:01,374 "You're nothing, and you're never gonna be nothing." 410 00:25:03,293 --> 00:25:06,379 That shame became mine. And it's still there. 411 00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:08,632 And when something goes wrong, 412 00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:13,595 it confirms in my mind what I have always known to be true: 413 00:25:13,678 --> 00:25:16,014 I am nothing, and I'm never gonna be nothing. 414 00:25:16,723 --> 00:25:18,141 That's what the assault did. 415 00:25:20,977 --> 00:25:25,857 My abuse happened about 200 yards away from my mother, my father, 416 00:25:25,941 --> 00:25:28,818 and hundreds, if not thousands, of Scouts and parents. 417 00:25:28,902 --> 00:25:30,153 It was that close. 418 00:25:30,946 --> 00:25:33,156 The-- The weight of it was too high. 419 00:25:34,282 --> 00:25:35,659 I couldn't handle it. 420 00:25:35,742 --> 00:25:36,660 [sniffles] 421 00:25:38,954 --> 00:25:41,998 In senior year of college, I'd climb to the top 422 00:25:42,082 --> 00:25:44,876 of, uh, one of the research buildings on campus. 423 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,546 Um, it was a place I'd snuck up to a lot. 424 00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:49,214 [chuckling] And it was kind of… 425 00:25:49,881 --> 00:25:55,303 Uh, it had a great view of the city. And, um, while I was up there, I… 426 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,722 wanted to jump. 427 00:25:57,806 --> 00:26:01,768 I tried to convince myself to do it, and I just couldn't get that-- 428 00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,605 I think that strength, honestly, to-- to do what I needed. 429 00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:08,858 And so, I looked at my watch, which this is what I had on. 430 00:26:09,526 --> 00:26:12,445 And it read 12:32. 431 00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:15,615 And I tried to trick myself into doing it. 432 00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:19,494 I said, "Okay, well, when this hits 12:33, I'm just gonna do it." 433 00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:23,290 "Um, it's not gonna be my choice. It's just, snap, that's the moment." 434 00:26:23,373 --> 00:26:26,918 And I took off the watch, and I was trying to work up the courage, 435 00:26:27,002 --> 00:26:28,795 and, you know, bang my hand against the wall, 436 00:26:28,878 --> 00:26:29,921 and I was trying to… 437 00:26:30,005 --> 00:26:34,009 [inhales] …I don't know, find a way to do the thing I was too afraid to do. 438 00:26:34,092 --> 00:26:36,845 And in the act of that, I broke the watch. 439 00:26:36,928 --> 00:26:39,556 And it never got to 12:33. 440 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:52,319 [Johnson] Interesting story about that picture of me as a Cub Scout. 441 00:26:52,402 --> 00:26:53,528 My mother died, 442 00:26:53,612 --> 00:26:56,156 and my father had al-- had already passed away, 443 00:26:56,239 --> 00:26:58,241 and we had to pack everything up 444 00:26:58,325 --> 00:27:01,161 and put it into storage to get rid of the, you know, sell our house. 445 00:27:01,828 --> 00:27:05,790 Years later, within a month of me going to work for the Boy Scouts of America, 446 00:27:05,874 --> 00:27:07,500 I went to the storage room, 447 00:27:07,584 --> 00:27:11,046 knew the quilts would be in this big cedar cabinet, opened it up, 448 00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,297 pulled one of the quilts out, 449 00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:14,341 and literally being protected by the quilt, 450 00:27:14,424 --> 00:27:16,509 whoever put it in there, put it between-- 451 00:27:16,593 --> 00:27:19,012 was that picture which I'd never seen before. 452 00:27:19,095 --> 00:27:22,307 So I felt like it was, you know, kind of a thing, 453 00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:24,893 that this was something that was destined to be, 454 00:27:24,976 --> 00:27:26,269 destined to happen. 455 00:27:28,229 --> 00:27:30,315 I thought when I started with the Boy Scouts 456 00:27:30,398 --> 00:27:33,652 that I was gonna get support and, "Mike, here's what you need to know." 457 00:27:34,402 --> 00:27:37,280 "Boom, here's the stack. You need to start going through this." 458 00:27:37,364 --> 00:27:40,325 [chuckling] "This is our history, this is what we do, and why we do it." 459 00:27:40,825 --> 00:27:42,118 The desk was clear. Nothing. 460 00:27:42,202 --> 00:27:49,084 So, I literally went to my then boss, VP level, Jim Terry, 461 00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:53,588 and I said, "Is there any standard-of-care type documents?" 462 00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:55,173 He says, "No, no, Mike. I'm not aware." 463 00:27:55,256 --> 00:27:57,217 [intriguing music playing] 464 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:00,720 So, I reached out to a colleague of mine at the Center for Disease Control. 465 00:28:00,804 --> 00:28:03,306 She works in the division of violence prevention. 466 00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:07,560 I said, "Hey, is there a standard-of-care document for youth-serving organizations?" 467 00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:10,689 She said, "Oh, yeah, Mike. Boy Scouts participated in it." I'm like, "What?" 468 00:28:12,607 --> 00:28:15,485 So, she sends me the document I just referred to. 469 00:28:15,568 --> 00:28:17,904 So as soon as I get it, I start reading through it. 470 00:28:17,987 --> 00:28:20,740 I get to the back, the participant list. 471 00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:24,411 And it literally-- I think the second or third name on there is James Terry, 472 00:28:24,494 --> 00:28:25,870 Boy Scouts of America. 473 00:28:27,747 --> 00:28:28,790 So, I take this doc-- 474 00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:31,251 [interviewer] This is what he's telling you they don't have. 475 00:28:31,334 --> 00:28:34,462 Never heard of it. Like it doesn't-- You know, so I take that book. 476 00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:36,756 Literally, it's a book. I take it to his office. 477 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,092 I'm like, "Uh, Jim, would you explain this to me?" 478 00:28:39,175 --> 00:28:42,554 And he basically just tells me, "Well, I really didn't participate in it." 479 00:28:42,637 --> 00:28:46,057 "It was a man by the name of Doug Smith. They just put my name on it." 480 00:28:46,141 --> 00:28:48,893 I'm like, "Did you know it existed?" He goes, "Yeah, I knew it existed." 481 00:28:48,977 --> 00:28:50,645 "Well, who is Doug Smith?" 482 00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:54,315 He was a national staff person at the national headquarters 483 00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:58,695 of Boy Scouts of America there in Irving, who got arrested in a child porn sting. 484 00:28:58,778 --> 00:29:00,905 I'm like, "Excuse me? What?" 485 00:29:00,989 --> 00:29:04,492 We prepared, uh, materials 486 00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:09,289 to… to help, uh, local councils and local units, 487 00:29:10,248 --> 00:29:12,709 uh, provide safe programs for children. 488 00:29:12,792 --> 00:29:15,211 [reporter] What were the circumstances under which you ceased 489 00:29:15,295 --> 00:29:16,421 working for the BSA? 490 00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:20,550 [inhales] Uh… I… Uh… 491 00:29:20,633 --> 00:29:24,929 I submitted my letter of retirement after the police had come to my house. 492 00:29:25,013 --> 00:29:27,015 [dramatic music playing] 493 00:29:27,807 --> 00:29:30,226 [Johnson] Federal child porn sting. 494 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:31,644 Went to prison. 495 00:29:31,728 --> 00:29:33,897 Here I am, I'm the new youth protection director. 496 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:35,398 They never told me about this guy. 497 00:29:35,482 --> 00:29:37,484 [music fades] 498 00:29:39,068 --> 00:29:40,862 They were withholding information. 499 00:29:40,945 --> 00:29:44,032 I go, "Wait a minute, how am I gonna protect kids in their organization 500 00:29:44,115 --> 00:29:48,369 if I don't have access to the information about kids in their organization?" 501 00:29:48,453 --> 00:29:52,040 So, I guess that's an organizational decision that they made. 502 00:29:52,749 --> 00:29:57,086 Well, to me, to help me figure out what the policies, procedures, 503 00:29:57,170 --> 00:30:00,006 the content needs to be, I need that information. 504 00:30:01,466 --> 00:30:04,886 My frustrations in Scouting, I'm going into these meetings sometimes, 505 00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:07,931 or sometimes I'm literally going to the general counsel, 506 00:30:08,014 --> 00:30:10,016 because I'm reporting to him. 507 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,602 [tense, morose music playing] 508 00:30:26,032 --> 00:30:28,243 I was the general counsel of the Boy Scouts of America. 509 00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:33,915 Both youth protection and membership standards came under me 510 00:30:33,998 --> 00:30:38,211 until some point during the bankruptcy, at which point we moved it over. 511 00:30:39,754 --> 00:30:41,089 I came in as a kid. 512 00:30:41,172 --> 00:30:43,424 Went through all Scouting. I'm an Eagle Scout. 513 00:30:43,508 --> 00:30:45,093 When my son came of age, 514 00:30:45,176 --> 00:30:48,096 he became a Scout leader and was a leader in a unit. 515 00:30:49,931 --> 00:30:53,017 I would tell you that we're a microcosm of our entire society. 516 00:30:53,101 --> 00:30:56,104 If we had a problem, our society had a problem, 517 00:30:56,187 --> 00:30:58,022 many other institutions had the problem. 518 00:30:58,106 --> 00:31:02,402 We just happened to be the one with the deep pocket right now. 519 00:31:03,236 --> 00:31:05,572 And the one that's willing to make the social commitment 520 00:31:05,655 --> 00:31:08,908 to try to make it right and to try to apologize, 521 00:31:09,534 --> 00:31:12,787 to try to do everything we can to keep kids safe, 522 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:15,331 and to try to compensate for these victims. 523 00:31:15,415 --> 00:31:16,791 But then to continue the mission. 524 00:31:18,459 --> 00:31:21,004 And many of the survivors are very clear. 525 00:31:21,087 --> 00:31:24,549 They want Scouting to continue because of the good it did. 526 00:31:24,632 --> 00:31:26,718 And we want to continue to do that. 527 00:31:29,387 --> 00:31:32,473 [interviewer] Michael Johnson was a youth protection director of the Boy Scouts. 528 00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:35,977 He said that the organization is still not safe for boys or girls. 529 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:37,395 How do you respond to that? 530 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:39,230 Shocked. 531 00:31:39,814 --> 00:31:42,191 Personally, very, very disappointed. 532 00:31:42,734 --> 00:31:45,320 He never expressed that sentiment. 533 00:31:45,403 --> 00:31:49,741 He approved and, on a number of occasions while he worked for the Boy Scouts, 534 00:31:49,824 --> 00:31:54,787 championed our program and how effective our safe-- youth safety programs were. 535 00:31:54,871 --> 00:31:59,584 He and I worked very closely together on developing many of our new, current, 536 00:31:59,667 --> 00:32:02,629 modern youth protections, and we did not have many disagreements. 537 00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:06,716 I remember him saying that he felt that we supported-- 538 00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:09,469 I supported the reforms that he was suggesting 539 00:32:09,552 --> 00:32:11,846 more than he had felt anyone had done before. 540 00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:16,184 [interviewer] He tells a different story. He basically says that he's frustrated 541 00:32:16,267 --> 00:32:19,479 trying to put some of these youth protection programs in place, 542 00:32:19,562 --> 00:32:21,064 and that he's getting resistance. 543 00:32:21,147 --> 00:32:23,983 [sputters] All I can tell you is I was shocked. 544 00:32:26,027 --> 00:32:28,696 [Johnson] I don't know how else to put it. He's lying. 545 00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:31,991 I can put it-- I guess there's a softer term. 546 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:36,829 Uh… B-- Being deceptive, not telling the truth. 547 00:32:36,913 --> 00:32:39,958 How-- Whatever term is comfortable, uh, you know, for people. 548 00:32:40,541 --> 00:32:44,045 Uh, the fact is, especially in the last three or four years, 549 00:32:44,128 --> 00:32:47,715 he and I were constantly, uh, battling. 550 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,386 Contentious on each various item 551 00:32:51,469 --> 00:32:54,180 that I was trying to get through with Scouting. 552 00:32:54,263 --> 00:32:56,224 Uh, I literally referred to it as the gauntlet. 553 00:32:57,350 --> 00:33:00,895 The messaging he wants out there is, 554 00:33:00,979 --> 00:33:05,733 is that Boy Scouts is like any other organization in America, 555 00:33:05,817 --> 00:33:08,361 and that these guys could come from anywhere, 556 00:33:08,444 --> 00:33:10,196 and there's nothing we can do to prevent them. 557 00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:11,489 All of that is not true. 558 00:33:12,323 --> 00:33:17,495 Boy Scouts is exceptional in the opportunities that it presents 559 00:33:17,578 --> 00:33:24,460 to perpetrators to access children in no to very low supervised situations. 560 00:33:24,544 --> 00:33:26,671 Name another youth-serving organization 561 00:33:26,754 --> 00:33:30,550 that has overnight access to kids over multiple days. 562 00:33:31,134 --> 00:33:36,472 Name another organization that a scoutmaster has the power 563 00:33:36,556 --> 00:33:40,226 over whether or not this youth can become an Eagle Scout. 564 00:33:40,309 --> 00:33:42,854 Now you back up a little bit and you think to yourself, 565 00:33:42,937 --> 00:33:45,023 "How easy is it to get into Scouting?" 566 00:33:45,606 --> 00:33:48,818 And so now you start to see where those weaknesses are. 567 00:33:48,901 --> 00:33:53,698 It's removing those risk areas, known risk areas, 568 00:33:53,781 --> 00:33:56,951 that helps you create this safer environment 569 00:33:57,035 --> 00:33:59,871 for kids who participate in the Scouting programs. 570 00:33:59,954 --> 00:34:01,122 [dog barks in distance] 571 00:34:01,205 --> 00:34:03,666 You talk to a lot of these young men, they'll tell you, 572 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:05,960 "My parents dropped me off at his house." 573 00:34:06,044 --> 00:34:11,174 We've had cases where the adult stayed the night at the kid's house. 574 00:34:11,257 --> 00:34:12,550 [tense music playing] 575 00:34:18,806 --> 00:34:22,560 [Boyle] Troop 137 in New Orleans was a nightmare for the Boy Scouts 576 00:34:22,643 --> 00:34:24,228 in a very special way. 577 00:34:25,229 --> 00:34:27,940 It was one of the few cases where you could say 578 00:34:28,024 --> 00:34:29,901 a troop had actually become a sex ring. 579 00:34:30,568 --> 00:34:32,570 Several men became leaders of a troop in New Orleans, 580 00:34:32,653 --> 00:34:35,907 specifically to get access to boys to molest. 581 00:34:36,949 --> 00:34:39,619 They literally recruited boys into this troop. 582 00:34:39,702 --> 00:34:43,331 And they had sex parties at their houses. 583 00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:45,792 They took pictures of the boys naked. 584 00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:48,628 They traded pictures with other pedophiles around the country. 585 00:34:51,297 --> 00:34:53,716 [Richard Windmann] I grew up in New Orleans back in the '70s. 586 00:34:54,509 --> 00:34:57,095 My parents separated very early so, 587 00:34:57,178 --> 00:35:00,765 uh, my brother and I lived with my mom. 588 00:35:01,557 --> 00:35:03,935 Two men, they approached my mom. 589 00:35:04,018 --> 00:35:06,938 They told her that they were in the, uh, neighborhood 590 00:35:07,021 --> 00:35:10,650 looking for new Scouts for their new troop. 591 00:35:11,234 --> 00:35:14,946 They agreed to pay for everything "because you're a single mom." 592 00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:17,949 "So don't worry about the cost or anything." 593 00:35:19,826 --> 00:35:24,705 Boy Scouts of America should never let a bunch of single men start a troop. 594 00:35:27,166 --> 00:35:29,377 There were four primary leaders. 595 00:35:29,961 --> 00:35:30,962 Tom Woodall, 596 00:35:31,045 --> 00:35:32,463 Lewis Sialle, 597 00:35:33,131 --> 00:35:34,382 Richard Halvorsen, 598 00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:36,717 and Harry Cramer. 599 00:35:40,012 --> 00:35:41,180 They take you out to eat. 600 00:35:41,264 --> 00:35:44,392 They bring you to the trampoline park to help Mom out. 601 00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:48,146 -[woman talking indistinctly] -[Windmann chuckles] Sea monkeys. 602 00:35:48,229 --> 00:35:51,566 [sighs] My mom wouldn't buy me any for Christmas. 603 00:35:51,649 --> 00:35:54,652 And so Harry Cramer, uh, said, you know, 604 00:35:54,735 --> 00:35:58,239 "Uh, you can have sea monkeys, but they have to be at my house." 605 00:35:59,073 --> 00:36:00,449 "You can't tell Mom." 606 00:36:00,533 --> 00:36:02,201 [eerie music playing] 607 00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:05,246 None of the scoutmasters had children of their own. 608 00:36:05,329 --> 00:36:08,958 And, you know, I'm not old enough to be a Boy Scout. 609 00:36:10,001 --> 00:36:13,087 There was a lot of red flags that should have been caught. 610 00:36:15,173 --> 00:36:18,426 The boys came from single-parent homes. 611 00:36:18,926 --> 00:36:20,636 They were all poor. 612 00:36:21,470 --> 00:36:23,931 There was never merit badge work to do. 613 00:36:24,015 --> 00:36:26,726 You know, we did campouts, but that was just, you know, 614 00:36:26,809 --> 00:36:29,812 a convenient thing to do where you can rape a kid. 615 00:36:29,896 --> 00:36:33,482 So, it appeared on the outside like we were actually a real troop, 616 00:36:33,566 --> 00:36:34,442 but we weren't. 617 00:36:36,777 --> 00:36:39,906 Men would fly from out of town, from all over. 618 00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:44,076 Mostly Western Europe, but all over the United States as well. 619 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,038 And we were raped by them as well. 620 00:36:47,121 --> 00:36:51,292 We were-- We were sold to them, you know, rented out, whatever you want to call it. 621 00:36:52,376 --> 00:36:58,049 And, uh, they always took, uh, pictures and videos of us all the time. 622 00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:03,346 They would bring you to hotels primarily in the French Quarter. 623 00:37:04,430 --> 00:37:08,601 In fact, uh, my mom dropped me off at the hotels a couple of times. 624 00:37:09,602 --> 00:37:11,437 [interviewer] What did she think was happening? 625 00:37:12,104 --> 00:37:14,565 Just visiting a scoutmaster from out of town. 626 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:19,111 Especially when it's done to you by authority figures, 627 00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:21,906 you don't trust anybody. 628 00:37:26,994 --> 00:37:27,870 You're hurtin'. 629 00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:30,581 You don't want to go to school the next day. 630 00:37:30,665 --> 00:37:32,750 You cry when nobody can see you. 631 00:37:35,169 --> 00:37:37,546 My mom, she brought me to a doctor. 632 00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:39,298 He was an older gentleman. 633 00:37:39,382 --> 00:37:41,425 [chuckling] Always had a cigarette in his mouth. 634 00:37:42,134 --> 00:37:45,263 And I don't know why, but I trusted the doctor. 635 00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:49,433 You know, he pulled up his chair, and he said, "What's goin' on?" 636 00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:51,686 I-- I told him about the rape. 637 00:37:52,478 --> 00:37:54,605 Um, he said, "Who's raping you?" 638 00:37:54,689 --> 00:37:57,733 I said, "A lot of people are raping me in the Boy Scouts." [chuckles] 639 00:37:59,568 --> 00:38:01,821 And he was like, "Get me their information." 640 00:38:02,822 --> 00:38:04,240 "And I'll take care of it." 641 00:38:04,865 --> 00:38:06,325 "Nobody will know it's you." 642 00:38:06,409 --> 00:38:08,869 -[melancholy music playing] -[sirens wailing] 643 00:38:08,953 --> 00:38:12,373 They raided the houses, got the kiddie porn, arrested them. 644 00:38:12,456 --> 00:38:14,375 So, it hits the Nightly News. 645 00:38:14,458 --> 00:38:16,002 [people clamoring] 646 00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:20,047 The aggressive, cruel, crass nature 647 00:38:20,131 --> 00:38:22,675 of these violations is such that these little minds 648 00:38:22,758 --> 00:38:26,137 are going to be affected for a long, long time. 649 00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:30,224 [Windmann] When I got older, 650 00:38:30,308 --> 00:38:34,729 I was one of the first people to get a copy of the perversion files. 651 00:38:34,812 --> 00:38:35,896 It was leaked to me. 652 00:38:36,647 --> 00:38:38,733 And just reading through all of it 653 00:38:38,816 --> 00:38:40,985 and what they knew was going on at the time, 654 00:38:41,068 --> 00:38:42,570 and they did nothing about it, 655 00:38:43,487 --> 00:38:44,572 it makes you angry. 656 00:38:51,037 --> 00:38:54,332 [interviewer] Did you ever get an apology or attempt to make amends from the Scouts? 657 00:38:54,415 --> 00:38:55,249 [Windmann] Never. 658 00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:57,168 -[interviewer] Nothing? -Never. 659 00:38:58,127 --> 00:38:58,961 Mm. 660 00:39:01,339 --> 00:39:02,757 How do you feel about that? 661 00:39:03,799 --> 00:39:05,593 Pissed off. Angry. 662 00:39:07,470 --> 00:39:08,929 Angry. Very angry. 663 00:39:12,975 --> 00:39:15,519 [interviewer] What failures do you think the Boy Scouts made 664 00:39:15,603 --> 00:39:17,688 that could've contributed to the scope of that problem? 665 00:39:17,772 --> 00:39:19,857 [McGowan] I think it's bigger than the Boy Scouts. 666 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:23,402 Remember, the Boy Scouts of America did not abuse these kids. 667 00:39:23,486 --> 00:39:25,571 We had some bad people that got in. 668 00:39:25,654 --> 00:39:28,199 -We read about-- -People under the banner of Boy Scouts… 669 00:39:28,282 --> 00:39:30,951 -We have school-- -…or were volunteers at the Boy Scouts. 670 00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:32,328 -Scoutmasters… -[McGowan] Sure. 671 00:39:32,411 --> 00:39:34,622 …or people that were largely involved with the program. 672 00:39:34,705 --> 00:39:37,833 -That's what this number represents. -[McGowan] Well, they're people. 673 00:39:37,917 --> 00:39:40,920 Just like schoolteachers and everybody else. There are bad people. 674 00:39:41,003 --> 00:39:42,880 There's no way to profile them ahead of time 675 00:39:42,963 --> 00:39:45,132 and to identify people ahead of time. 676 00:39:45,216 --> 00:39:47,301 All you can do is use a program like we do, 677 00:39:47,385 --> 00:39:50,763 which is to keep kids as safe as we can and to continually improve that. 678 00:39:50,846 --> 00:39:54,058 And to try to continually, you know, improve our efforts. 679 00:39:54,141 --> 00:39:58,938 But nobody has a profile of a would-be abuser 680 00:39:59,021 --> 00:40:02,274 that you can apply as a litmus test to keep someone out. 681 00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:06,112 [Boyle] The Confidential Files do show you the risky situations 682 00:40:06,195 --> 00:40:07,363 for the Scouts. 683 00:40:07,446 --> 00:40:10,366 What situations are likely, or more likely, 684 00:40:10,449 --> 00:40:12,201 to expose your boys to somebody 685 00:40:12,284 --> 00:40:15,329 who wants to molest them, regardless of who that person is. 686 00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:19,375 I went down to Texas to talk to the Boy Scouts down at headquarters. 687 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,629 I'm interviewing the guy whose name and stamp 688 00:40:23,712 --> 00:40:26,465 is on the front page of just about every Confidential File. 689 00:40:26,549 --> 00:40:29,802 His signature is right next to where they describe the incident 690 00:40:29,885 --> 00:40:31,429 in a couple lines. 691 00:40:31,512 --> 00:40:34,473 Joe Anglim says to me he's never read a Confidential File. 692 00:40:34,557 --> 00:40:35,933 -Never read it? -Never read it. 693 00:40:36,016 --> 00:40:38,602 I said, "I've got hundreds of files with your name on it." 694 00:40:38,686 --> 00:40:40,104 He said, "But I don't read them." 695 00:40:40,187 --> 00:40:43,774 I said, "Did you ever count your files or analyze them 696 00:40:43,858 --> 00:40:45,776 to learn about sex abuse in Scouting?" 697 00:40:45,860 --> 00:40:47,695 He says, "No." And I said, "Why not?" 698 00:40:47,778 --> 00:40:49,905 He said, "Because nobody's told us we have a problem, 699 00:40:49,989 --> 00:40:51,532 and that we have to do that." 700 00:40:51,615 --> 00:40:55,035 I said, "How would you know you have a problem unless you read the files?" 701 00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,997 And he said, "Because we know we don't have a problem, 702 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,040 because we have a great program, 703 00:41:00,124 --> 00:41:02,585 and we don't have any reason to believe we have a problem." 704 00:41:02,668 --> 00:41:06,130 "So we didn't look at the files and study them because nobody said we should, 705 00:41:06,213 --> 00:41:11,051 and we didn't ask anybody to look at them because we didn't think we had a problem." 706 00:41:11,135 --> 00:41:12,887 -That's the response. -That was the response. 707 00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:14,972 [melancholy music playing] 708 00:41:21,103 --> 00:41:23,606 [Johnson] One of the things they had in their marketing messaging 709 00:41:23,689 --> 00:41:25,441 that used to drive me nuts is, 710 00:41:25,524 --> 00:41:28,944 "The Boy Scouts has a rigorous application and screening process." 711 00:41:29,028 --> 00:41:30,154 Like, that's bullshit. 712 00:41:30,821 --> 00:41:33,240 And it's not true. That's never been true. 713 00:41:33,324 --> 00:41:36,494 I said, "Why don't we at least use a government ID?" 714 00:41:36,577 --> 00:41:39,079 You have to use it to buy groceries, right, show your ID. 715 00:41:39,163 --> 00:41:41,832 You have to use it to get on the airplane. Show your ID. 716 00:41:41,916 --> 00:41:44,585 What don't we at least check a government-based ID, 717 00:41:44,668 --> 00:41:47,338 driver's license or passport 718 00:41:47,421 --> 00:41:50,966 or state identif-- identification card to see and make sure? 719 00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:52,843 And, uh, they refused to do that. 720 00:41:52,927 --> 00:41:55,304 -They refused to do that? -Inconvenience and cost. 721 00:41:57,973 --> 00:42:00,559 [interviewer] They didn't want to check a government ID 722 00:42:00,643 --> 00:42:02,311 on scoutmasters or volunteers. 723 00:42:02,394 --> 00:42:04,813 [Johnson] They didn't want to check a government ID 724 00:42:04,897 --> 00:42:08,651 on scoutmasters or volunteers interacting with your children. 725 00:42:08,734 --> 00:42:10,444 [interviewer] Because it was inconvenient. 726 00:42:10,528 --> 00:42:11,362 And cost. 727 00:42:12,279 --> 00:42:15,491 [interviewer] And whatever cost it'd take for that person's time to check the ID. 728 00:42:15,574 --> 00:42:16,408 Yes. 729 00:42:16,492 --> 00:42:19,328 Whether the information is to identify fugitives 730 00:42:19,411 --> 00:42:21,163 or criminal history records. 731 00:42:21,247 --> 00:42:23,207 [Boyle] The Boy Scouts stood out 732 00:42:23,290 --> 00:42:25,167 in their opposition to the Child Protection Act. 733 00:42:25,251 --> 00:42:27,711 Most of the big youth organizations supported it. 734 00:42:27,795 --> 00:42:31,298 And it reflected the Boy Scouts' fear of two things. 735 00:42:31,382 --> 00:42:35,469 One of which was spending more money, because they had a lot of volunteers. 736 00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:39,515 And two, they didn't want to spend the money on-- on the fingerprint checks. 737 00:42:40,015 --> 00:42:45,062 But also, the Scouts really kept resisting putting added requirements 738 00:42:45,145 --> 00:42:49,358 on the local organizations in order to weed out child molesters. 739 00:42:49,441 --> 00:42:51,652 Because they felt there was only so much they could do. 740 00:42:51,735 --> 00:42:54,947 And because they always were in dire need of volunteers, 741 00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:56,782 they didn't want to scare away volunteers. 742 00:42:58,117 --> 00:43:01,495 [Johnson] I'll never forget, a chief Scout executive I was working under at the time 743 00:43:01,579 --> 00:43:04,832 literally caught me in the hallway and said, "Well-- Well, Mike, you know, 744 00:43:04,915 --> 00:43:06,166 we were told by our lawyers 745 00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:09,211 and our risk management people, or whomever, that-- 746 00:43:09,295 --> 00:43:12,673 "Don't contact the parents if there's an allegation of child sex abuse." 747 00:43:12,756 --> 00:43:15,467 I said, "Sir, well, I guess you need to make a decision." 748 00:43:15,551 --> 00:43:18,387 "You can listen to them, or you can listen to me." 749 00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:20,806 "I'll tell you this, I know what the hell I'm talking about." 750 00:43:22,850 --> 00:43:27,104 [chuckling] One of the many big arguments I had with general counsel is 751 00:43:27,187 --> 00:43:30,899 I insisted on anybody that's placed on the IV File, 752 00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:34,695 perversion file, or volunteer screening database, whatever it's called, 753 00:43:34,778 --> 00:43:37,573 for anything that has to do with sexual abuse of a child, 754 00:43:37,656 --> 00:43:41,869 allegation, grooming, whatever, needs to be reported to law enforcement. 755 00:43:41,952 --> 00:43:44,121 Well, he comes into my office, he was very upset. 756 00:43:44,204 --> 00:43:47,958 "The law doesn't mandate that we report all these allegations of abuse 757 00:43:48,042 --> 00:43:51,170 unless there's reasonable suspicion that there's sexual abuse." 758 00:43:53,088 --> 00:43:56,508 [interviewer] We've found lots of examples where in these files, time and again, 759 00:43:56,592 --> 00:43:58,677 the scoutmasters are told not to tell parents 760 00:43:58,761 --> 00:44:00,638 or not to tell law enforcement about abuse. 761 00:44:00,721 --> 00:44:04,600 And we have a lot of first-hand experience about the people telling us this too. 762 00:44:04,683 --> 00:44:06,810 When mistakes were made, mistakes were made. 763 00:44:07,311 --> 00:44:10,064 And if people did that, they were wrong, and we failed. 764 00:44:10,814 --> 00:44:14,401 And I'm ho-- I know we're doing better, and I hope we'll continue to do better. 765 00:44:14,485 --> 00:44:17,905 But the fact is, people sometimes have made mistakes. 766 00:44:19,281 --> 00:44:21,116 [interviewer] Just to be clear, that's wrong. 767 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,161 If kids were repeatedly told not to tell authorities or parents… 768 00:44:24,244 --> 00:44:26,038 -[McGowan] Absolutely wrong. -…that is wrong. 769 00:44:26,121 --> 00:44:30,501 We train kids to do just the other, and have for the last 20 years or more. 770 00:44:30,584 --> 00:44:32,461 [interviewer] Be clear what you train kids to do. 771 00:44:32,544 --> 00:44:34,880 [McGowan] Resist. Report. 772 00:44:34,963 --> 00:44:37,591 Know what the barriers to abuse are, 773 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,719 and to make sure that those barriers to abuse are respected 774 00:44:40,803 --> 00:44:42,930 by the adult leaders they work with. 775 00:44:43,013 --> 00:44:45,349 [interviewer] Report means go straight to law enforcement. 776 00:44:45,432 --> 00:44:48,727 Well, for a Scout, it means go to a trusted adult. 777 00:44:49,395 --> 00:44:51,313 Could be a parent, could be a leader. 778 00:44:51,397 --> 00:44:54,775 [sputters] But they're trained to go to someone they're comfortable enough with 779 00:44:54,858 --> 00:44:56,485 to tell the information to. 780 00:44:57,194 --> 00:45:01,699 And from there, the trusted adult is responsible 781 00:45:01,782 --> 00:45:07,079 for making the communication both to law enforcement and to the BSA. 782 00:45:08,664 --> 00:45:10,999 [Johnson] The perpetrator who's sexually abusing the youth 783 00:45:11,083 --> 00:45:13,419 or sexually harassing them or bothering them 784 00:45:13,502 --> 00:45:16,505 is typically what was formerly a trusted adult. 785 00:45:17,381 --> 00:45:19,591 My recommendation was to create a hotline, 786 00:45:20,509 --> 00:45:24,138 uh, that kids could call on their own. 787 00:45:24,221 --> 00:45:28,976 There's been some wonderful research that kids of today, especially, 788 00:45:29,059 --> 00:45:34,940 really use a text and chat feature for anonymous reporting. 789 00:45:35,023 --> 00:45:38,569 Because the fact is, while some kids will tell their parents, 790 00:45:38,652 --> 00:45:42,239 some kids will tell what they identify as a trusted adult, 791 00:45:42,322 --> 00:45:45,451 most kids want to kind of figure things out for themselves. 792 00:45:45,534 --> 00:45:48,829 You know, they got these computers in their hands now, 793 00:45:48,912 --> 00:45:50,706 uh, especially the older teens. 794 00:45:51,457 --> 00:45:54,334 But when I took that proposal to Steve McGowan 795 00:45:54,418 --> 00:45:56,837 and the then-vice president John Mosby, 796 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,173 it was, like, not "No," but "Hell no." 797 00:45:59,256 --> 00:46:02,885 "We just want kids reporting to their trusted adults, to scoutmasters." 798 00:46:03,761 --> 00:46:05,846 [Kennedy] The Boy Scouts, over the years, have had 799 00:46:05,929 --> 00:46:08,474 what they call their youth protection policies. 800 00:46:08,974 --> 00:46:10,517 They have evolved over time. 801 00:46:10,601 --> 00:46:13,687 One of the cornerstones of their youth protection 802 00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:15,439 is two-deep leadership. 803 00:46:15,522 --> 00:46:18,942 No Scout is ever going to be alone with another person. 804 00:46:19,026 --> 00:46:22,237 There's been a number of other changes that have happened over time, 805 00:46:22,321 --> 00:46:24,156 but it obviously hasn't worked. 806 00:46:25,616 --> 00:46:27,785 [Boyle] When they developed their protection training, 807 00:46:27,868 --> 00:46:29,244 their education materials for kids, 808 00:46:29,328 --> 00:46:31,747 they developed some really nice programs, uh, and videotapes 809 00:46:31,830 --> 00:46:34,124 for the leaders and for the kids about sex abuse. 810 00:46:34,708 --> 00:46:38,670 For a long time, they didn't require kids or leaders to go through that training. 811 00:46:39,797 --> 00:46:42,299 I said, "Why don't you require it?" They said, "It's more work." 812 00:46:42,382 --> 00:46:43,801 "But we'll make it available." 813 00:46:43,884 --> 00:46:46,762 What's interesting about this is they'd tell parents and the media, 814 00:46:46,845 --> 00:46:49,389 "Well, we developed this great child protection program 815 00:46:49,473 --> 00:46:52,059 that goes out to the kids and the-- and the leaders." 816 00:46:52,142 --> 00:46:54,853 And people assume everybody goes through it, but it wasn't true. 817 00:46:56,605 --> 00:46:59,775 [Johnson] One of the things I used to get from our old general counsel was, 818 00:46:59,858 --> 00:47:02,861 "Well, we have to be careful of defaming anybody's character." 819 00:47:02,945 --> 00:47:06,490 And I said, "Well, have you ever-- Has the organization ever been sued 820 00:47:06,573 --> 00:47:08,450 for making a report of child sex abuse?" 821 00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:09,451 Guess what? 822 00:47:11,078 --> 00:47:11,954 Zero. 823 00:47:12,830 --> 00:47:14,164 We've never been sued. 824 00:47:14,248 --> 00:47:15,415 And on top of that… 825 00:47:15,499 --> 00:47:19,002 [chuckling] …I think we'd be in a better position if we did report. 826 00:47:19,086 --> 00:47:22,089 I'd rather defend ourselves for trying to protect kids 827 00:47:22,172 --> 00:47:26,385 than have it not reported and have to explain why we never told anybody. 828 00:47:27,135 --> 00:47:29,012 What better way to protect the community 829 00:47:29,096 --> 00:47:31,390 than to make sure to report it to law enforcement? 830 00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:37,771 I am hardwired to protect my community. 831 00:47:37,855 --> 00:47:41,608 That's what I did in law enforcement. That whole "protect and serve" thing? 832 00:47:42,359 --> 00:47:45,654 I hope you can tell where I'm gonna stand on-- on that issue. 833 00:47:47,906 --> 00:47:49,074 We're talking kids. 834 00:47:50,075 --> 00:47:51,702 We're talking people's children. 835 00:47:52,661 --> 00:47:53,495 Okay? 836 00:47:58,542 --> 00:48:01,044 [Boyle] The early Scout movement was built largely on religion. 837 00:48:01,128 --> 00:48:04,673 It is almost a religious movement, even though it's technically secular. 838 00:48:06,049 --> 00:48:09,720 The Boy Scout program was set up in a way that was perfect for religions 839 00:48:09,803 --> 00:48:11,430 to adopt it as their youth program. 840 00:48:11,513 --> 00:48:14,433 And, in fact, religions became the foundation of Scouting. 841 00:48:15,434 --> 00:48:17,144 You could be a Mormon, a Catholic, 842 00:48:17,227 --> 00:48:19,855 you could be Jewish, you could be of Islamic faith. 843 00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:24,735 When you've read a few hundred of the Confidential Files, 844 00:48:24,818 --> 00:48:28,488 it becomes a little bit hard to be shocked anymore. 845 00:48:29,281 --> 00:48:32,951 One of the cases that really shocked me was the case of Christopher Schultz. 846 00:48:33,035 --> 00:48:35,037 [ominous organ music playing] 847 00:48:39,666 --> 00:48:43,086 Christopher went to a local Catholic school where brother Edmund-- 848 00:48:43,170 --> 00:48:44,922 He was a Catholic brother, was a teacher. 849 00:48:47,424 --> 00:48:49,968 Brother Edmund was also the head of the local Scout troop, 850 00:48:50,052 --> 00:48:51,803 which Christopher belonged to. 851 00:48:51,887 --> 00:48:54,348 So he was the scoutmaster, and he was the teacher. 852 00:49:00,103 --> 00:49:04,399 [Schultz] It's like this bad intersection of crossroads is what we got sucked into. 853 00:49:04,483 --> 00:49:08,445 And he was good at being able to pick out his prey and isolate, 854 00:49:08,528 --> 00:49:11,823 and do whatever he was looking to do. 855 00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:16,411 I was a-- a target, 856 00:49:17,579 --> 00:49:20,791 but to be used as leverage for the real target, which was my brother. 857 00:49:21,458 --> 00:49:26,380 And my brother was his-- uh, was his preferred, uh, victim. 858 00:49:28,298 --> 00:49:30,384 [Boyle] He'd been at their house. They trusted him. 859 00:49:30,467 --> 00:49:32,552 So, they go up to this camp over the weekend. 860 00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:34,888 Brother Edmund commits some pretty serious 861 00:49:34,972 --> 00:49:37,349 sadomasochistic sex acts on Christopher. 862 00:49:40,268 --> 00:49:44,147 [Schultz] He started to, uh, break down and have panic attacks, 863 00:49:44,231 --> 00:49:47,317 and he started to go through bouts of hallucinations, 864 00:49:47,401 --> 00:49:49,861 auditory and visual, for the rest of that year. 865 00:49:49,945 --> 00:49:54,282 He could see and hear Brother Edmund reminding him not to tell anybody, 866 00:49:54,366 --> 00:49:56,535 you know, otherwise he was gonna kill him. 867 00:50:01,915 --> 00:50:04,668 This is the first time I've gotten out of the car and walked this area. 868 00:50:04,751 --> 00:50:06,336 And it-- it's hard. 869 00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:09,214 It's a time that I wish I could forget and erase. 870 00:50:10,173 --> 00:50:13,468 And it reminds me of a period of my life that I lost. 871 00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:21,893 It's one of the last pictures of my brother and I. 872 00:50:21,977 --> 00:50:26,106 That would have been probably May of '78, I think I was saying. 873 00:50:26,189 --> 00:50:27,983 Uh, so I was in eighth grade. 874 00:50:28,066 --> 00:50:30,027 So it would be, like, our eighth grade graduation. 875 00:50:36,074 --> 00:50:39,870 Even though it's small, it's probably the last formal picture of my brother. 876 00:50:44,374 --> 00:50:47,335 I was supposed to look after my little brother, to protect him. 877 00:50:49,838 --> 00:50:51,631 [Boyle] Christopher Schultz epitomized 878 00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:55,260 the worst thing that could happen to a family in an abuse case. 879 00:50:55,343 --> 00:50:56,678 Not only was your son abused, 880 00:50:56,762 --> 00:50:59,973 but he was so emotionally distraught that he took his own life. 881 00:51:02,601 --> 00:51:05,729 Brother Edmund was kicked out of the church and fled the state. 882 00:51:05,812 --> 00:51:08,398 What happened to the Schultzs was they were also ostracized 883 00:51:08,482 --> 00:51:11,234 by part of their community, by people from the church. 884 00:51:12,569 --> 00:51:14,404 In several of the cases in Scouting, 885 00:51:14,488 --> 00:51:17,908 people say that people in the Scouting community called them 886 00:51:17,991 --> 00:51:21,620 or saw them at meetings and said, "How dare you accuse the Scouts of this?" 887 00:51:21,703 --> 00:51:23,914 "You're trying to ruin this organization." 888 00:51:29,211 --> 00:51:31,004 [Schultz] We were 100% shunned. 889 00:51:31,505 --> 00:51:34,966 I remember one of the parish priests coming to the house 890 00:51:35,050 --> 00:51:37,886 when my father was at work, sitting down, talking to my mother, 891 00:51:37,969 --> 00:51:40,889 trying to leverage and pressure her to drop all this stuff. 892 00:51:42,057 --> 00:51:44,351 If we didn't drop it, "You're gonna be run out of town." 893 00:51:44,434 --> 00:51:47,104 "And there's nothing I can do about it. I'm trying to help you." 894 00:51:47,187 --> 00:51:49,064 "All you have to do is stop what you're doing." 895 00:51:49,147 --> 00:51:51,775 "If you don't, bad stuff will happen to you and your family." 896 00:51:51,858 --> 00:51:54,236 "Do you really want that to happen, Mrs. Schultz?" 897 00:51:54,319 --> 00:51:57,697 The length certain people were going to, to try and get you to shut up 898 00:51:57,781 --> 00:52:00,492 and-- and get this to go away to protect the Church. 899 00:52:01,076 --> 00:52:05,372 To me, the hypocrisy of both organizations are what got me the angriest. 900 00:52:09,042 --> 00:52:10,252 I hold them accountable. 901 00:52:12,796 --> 00:52:14,589 There is blood on their hands. 902 00:52:19,594 --> 00:52:22,681 [Boyle] Religious leaders were on the board of directors of the Scouts. 903 00:52:23,306 --> 00:52:25,183 If you think of the Boy Scouts as a corporation, 904 00:52:25,267 --> 00:52:28,145 these Church leaders that are on the board of directors 905 00:52:28,228 --> 00:52:29,896 are essentially their investors. 906 00:52:29,980 --> 00:52:31,982 [intriguing music playing] 907 00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:38,238 [Johnson] All the boys in the Mormon church, 908 00:52:38,321 --> 00:52:40,115 I'm not talking about just in one state, 909 00:52:40,198 --> 00:52:43,410 nationally, in the United States, go through Scouting. 910 00:52:44,161 --> 00:52:46,830 That is their youth ministry, whereas the other churches, 911 00:52:46,913 --> 00:52:49,207 it was dependent on the Catholic Church's diocese 912 00:52:49,291 --> 00:52:50,834 if they had a Scouting program, 913 00:52:50,917 --> 00:52:53,295 or the Methodists, or Episcopalians, or what have you. 914 00:52:53,378 --> 00:52:55,172 For the Mormons, all boys went through it. 915 00:52:56,089 --> 00:53:00,385 So, that is a significant membership, as well as volunteer, 916 00:53:00,468 --> 00:53:03,930 as well as money contribution and resource issue. 917 00:53:05,807 --> 00:53:08,310 [Jon Conte] Scouts are an independent organization, 918 00:53:08,393 --> 00:53:13,148 but felt that they had to honor the biases or perspectives of their sponsors. 919 00:53:13,857 --> 00:53:16,151 And the Catholic Church, and the Mormon Church, 920 00:53:16,234 --> 00:53:18,945 is historically homophobic. 921 00:53:21,031 --> 00:53:25,160 [Randall Hoenig] In 1978, they officially put in their ban on homosexuals. 922 00:53:26,328 --> 00:53:29,164 That was the first time the Boy Scouts stepped in 923 00:53:29,247 --> 00:53:31,875 and put on a requirement like that. 924 00:53:33,043 --> 00:53:37,172 The thought was it would end all these pedophile cases that were springing up. 925 00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:42,010 [Kathryn Robb] Outside people will say who the perpetrator is. 926 00:53:42,093 --> 00:53:45,972 "Oh, it's a gay problem." Right? Gays are pedophiles. 927 00:53:46,848 --> 00:53:50,602 There's research that most perpetrators are straight men. 928 00:53:52,604 --> 00:53:55,607 I also think homophobia plays a really big role 929 00:53:55,690 --> 00:53:58,318 in why a lot of men can't come forward. 930 00:53:58,401 --> 00:54:02,405 It plays into their shame and pain and struggle. 931 00:54:04,991 --> 00:54:08,245 [Drew Tessier] My abuse took place when I was 12. 932 00:54:08,328 --> 00:54:09,996 I came forward when I was 13. 933 00:54:11,248 --> 00:54:15,835 Growing up in the '90s as an abuse victim, as a closeted homosexual, 934 00:54:15,919 --> 00:54:20,006 when the organization was still very outwardly homophobic, 935 00:54:20,090 --> 00:54:23,593 this is the worst thing that you could be as a man. 936 00:54:24,219 --> 00:54:27,681 When I told a teacher about what happened, I was immediately told, 937 00:54:27,764 --> 00:54:29,766 "You've done the right thing. This is a good thing." 938 00:54:29,849 --> 00:54:32,477 "Now, this hasn't made you question your sexuality, has it?" 939 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,730 "Because, you know, uh, being gay is-- is a terrible sin." 940 00:54:36,898 --> 00:54:40,443 The initial letter that my abuser, Dr. Crosley, wrote me was, 941 00:54:40,527 --> 00:54:41,820 "Yes, I'm sorry." 942 00:54:41,903 --> 00:54:44,990 "But this doesn't make you gay, and this doesn't make me gay." 943 00:54:46,574 --> 00:54:51,663 I think it takes years to shed the shame that is, you know, 944 00:54:51,746 --> 00:54:55,792 sort of heaped on you directly or indirectly your entire life. 945 00:54:56,293 --> 00:54:59,421 I don't think there was a separation in people's minds 946 00:54:59,504 --> 00:55:02,340 between pedophilia and homosexuality. 947 00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:07,387 [Johnson] One of the first national meetings I went to, 948 00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:10,849 I was walking with one of the assistant chief Scout execs, 949 00:55:10,932 --> 00:55:12,726 who commented that homosexuals are pedophiles, 950 00:55:12,809 --> 00:55:16,730 and that's our primary problem in Boy Scouts with youth protection. 951 00:55:16,813 --> 00:55:19,482 And I said, "Uh, no, no." Yeah. And, like, he goes, 952 00:55:19,566 --> 00:55:22,360 "Yeah, Mike. You need to understand that homosexuals are pedophiles." 953 00:55:22,444 --> 00:55:25,447 I'm like, "No, they're not." And he's like, "Mike, no, yes, they are." 954 00:55:25,530 --> 00:55:29,117 Understand, this is a VP-level assistant chief Scout executive saying this to me. 955 00:55:29,701 --> 00:55:32,245 I'm like, "No, they're not." I said, "Who do you think--" 956 00:55:32,329 --> 00:55:35,373 [chuckling] "I mean, you realize that's my whole world, okay?" 957 00:55:35,457 --> 00:55:38,376 "It's interviewing victims and interrogating perpetrators." 958 00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:41,880 "If they were, I would tell you. All right? But that's not the issue." 959 00:55:43,590 --> 00:55:45,884 [interviewer] Here's someone at the top level conflating 960 00:55:45,967 --> 00:55:47,594 homosexuality and pedophilia. 961 00:55:47,677 --> 00:55:50,764 Not only at the very top level, he wasn't the only one. 962 00:55:51,848 --> 00:55:53,558 This was a reoccurring theme. 963 00:55:59,439 --> 00:56:01,858 [interviewer] More than one person told us in the organization, 964 00:56:01,941 --> 00:56:06,488 even at the very top levels, homosexuality was equated with pedophilia. 965 00:56:06,571 --> 00:56:08,990 Was that belief common among leadership in the Scouts, 966 00:56:09,074 --> 00:56:10,658 that there was a connection here? 967 00:56:10,742 --> 00:56:12,619 I can't speak to what they thought. But I think-- 968 00:56:12,702 --> 00:56:15,955 Well, you can attest to what the tone is inside the leadership 969 00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:17,165 and what was being said. 970 00:56:17,248 --> 00:56:21,127 -You were there at that-- at that time. -No, I never experienced that in my time. 971 00:56:21,211 --> 00:56:26,049 I experienced it in my life for many years as I grew up in society, 972 00:56:26,132 --> 00:56:28,760 and communities, and churches, and things like that. 973 00:56:28,843 --> 00:56:30,845 That there were a number of common misperceptions. 974 00:56:30,929 --> 00:56:33,431 But I never experienced that while I was in Scouting. 975 00:56:33,515 --> 00:56:35,141 -Do you believe there's a link? -No. 976 00:56:35,225 --> 00:56:38,061 Did the focus for so long on gay Scout leaders 977 00:56:38,144 --> 00:56:40,063 lead the organization down the wrong path? 978 00:56:40,146 --> 00:56:42,732 In other words, away from solving the problems of abuse? 979 00:56:42,816 --> 00:56:44,401 I can't answer that. I don't know. 980 00:56:44,484 --> 00:56:47,487 -Is that a distraction from the problem? -No. I don't think so. 981 00:56:47,570 --> 00:56:49,739 -You don't think it was a distraction? -No. 982 00:56:49,823 --> 00:56:51,825 [birds chirping] 983 00:56:52,575 --> 00:56:54,160 [Johnson] I remember thinking 984 00:56:54,244 --> 00:56:57,539 this organization is focused more on getting gays out 985 00:56:57,622 --> 00:57:00,834 than protecting kids from child molesters. 986 00:57:00,917 --> 00:57:04,254 They think getting gays out is protecting kids from child molesters, 987 00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:07,966 and they're, like, going down the completely wrong path. 988 00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:11,803 Then I learned about the Dale decision. [chuckles] 989 00:57:12,345 --> 00:57:15,140 The U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments today 990 00:57:15,223 --> 00:57:18,226 over banning gays from being Boy Scout leaders. 991 00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:21,020 The issue is a New Jersey Court's ruling 992 00:57:21,104 --> 00:57:24,149 that it violates a state anti-discrimination law. 993 00:57:24,232 --> 00:57:27,569 [reporter] Is not being a homosexual a core issue to being a Scout? 994 00:57:27,652 --> 00:57:31,281 The message of the Boy Scouts is what kind of behavior boys should engage in, 995 00:57:31,364 --> 00:57:33,533 and that's morally straight and clean behavior. 996 00:57:35,118 --> 00:57:38,371 [interviewer] Why did Boy Scouts defend this so rigorously in the Dale decision 997 00:57:38,455 --> 00:57:40,331 that went all the way to the Supreme Court? 998 00:57:40,415 --> 00:57:44,461 -I wasn't there or part of the decision. -You were a lawyer and general counsel. 999 00:57:44,544 --> 00:57:48,465 No, I can't tell you what happened in 1990, 2000, whenever. 1000 00:57:48,548 --> 00:57:50,258 Whichever year that decision was. 1001 00:57:51,468 --> 00:57:54,137 You have no thoughts on why they went to the Supreme Court 1002 00:57:54,220 --> 00:57:57,891 to defend-- to defend the right to discriminate against gay Scout leaders? 1003 00:57:57,974 --> 00:57:58,975 Well, I think that… 1004 00:57:59,058 --> 00:58:03,563 [chuckles] …it reflected the values of the organization at the time. 1005 00:58:04,147 --> 00:58:06,566 Which have changed, as have society's values. 1006 00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:10,987 Homosexuality was considered by the organization 1007 00:58:11,070 --> 00:58:13,281 to be inconsistent with the values of Scouting. 1008 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,826 We have adapted, and we have embraced diversity. 1009 00:58:17,660 --> 00:58:19,370 We have brought girls in the program. 1010 00:58:19,454 --> 00:58:22,332 We have evolved, and we'll continue to evolve. 1011 00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:28,004 And in some ways, we are right alongside. In some ways, we may be a little behind. 1012 00:58:28,087 --> 00:58:30,215 In some ways, we may be a little bit forward. 1013 00:58:30,298 --> 00:58:31,758 It's a private organization. 1014 00:58:31,841 --> 00:58:33,718 Until the constituents of that organization 1015 00:58:33,801 --> 00:58:35,303 are ready for that change, 1016 00:58:35,386 --> 00:58:38,515 then it's very difficult to try to implement those kind of changes. 1017 00:58:38,598 --> 00:58:40,725 The people need to be brought along in time. 1018 00:58:40,808 --> 00:58:44,687 They need to be able to adjust to it. It's like any other changes that we have. 1019 00:58:48,858 --> 00:58:52,612 I'm the new youth protection director. As I was starting wanting to do some, 1020 00:58:52,695 --> 00:58:56,282 what I thought were very medium-level policies 1021 00:58:56,366 --> 00:59:00,161 and content training upgrades for youth protection, 1022 00:59:00,245 --> 00:59:02,705 I kept getting told that the Mormons may not like that. 1023 00:59:02,789 --> 00:59:03,748 Mormons don't like that. 1024 00:59:03,831 --> 00:59:06,918 And I told them, I said, "I came to work for the Boy Scouts of America." 1025 00:59:07,001 --> 00:59:10,713 "I came here to protect the kids, the boys and girls of the Boy Scouts." 1026 00:59:10,797 --> 00:59:14,259 "I am not working for the Mormon Church and the Catholic Church." 1027 00:59:15,301 --> 00:59:17,387 And I'll remember-- I'll never forget this, Jim Terry, 1028 00:59:17,470 --> 00:59:19,764 the same assistant chief Scout executive, told me, 1029 00:59:19,847 --> 00:59:21,975 "Mike, you need to understand something." 1030 00:59:22,058 --> 00:59:25,562 I'm like, "What is that, sir?" He says, "The Mormons are sacrosanct." 1031 00:59:25,645 --> 00:59:27,647 [suspenseful music playing] 1032 00:59:30,483 --> 00:59:32,694 [McGowan] At the time of the change, there was no pressure 1033 00:59:32,777 --> 00:59:35,446 being exerted on us at all, and-- 1034 00:59:35,530 --> 00:59:37,240 -By the Mormons? -No. 1035 00:59:37,323 --> 00:59:39,617 No pressure from the Mormons to keep the gay ban in place. 1036 00:59:39,701 --> 00:59:41,661 -No. -Was that a concern by--? 1037 00:59:41,744 --> 00:59:44,038 Was it a concern? Well, sure it was a concern. 1038 00:59:44,122 --> 00:59:46,833 I mean, we were concerned about all of our constituents. 1039 00:59:46,916 --> 00:59:48,876 We're concerned about our stakeholders, 1040 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,922 and-- and the organization continuing to be able to maintain that relationship. 1041 00:59:53,006 --> 00:59:56,884 But, uh, no, there was no-- There were no threats. 1042 00:59:57,468 --> 00:59:59,554 There was no gnashing of teeth. 1043 00:59:59,637 --> 01:00:01,639 [somber music playing] 1044 01:00:16,237 --> 01:00:18,239 [birds chirping] 1045 01:00:22,910 --> 01:00:24,912 [music fades] 1046 01:00:29,667 --> 01:00:33,796 [Boyle] Legally, the Scouts continually succeeded for decades 1047 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,549 by basically hiding the abuse as best they could, 1048 01:00:36,633 --> 01:00:39,218 not even look at their own cases and playing hardball in court. 1049 01:00:39,302 --> 01:00:42,472 When they did go to court against a family, they'd ask the kid, 1050 01:00:42,555 --> 01:00:44,807 "You know, did you enjoy the sex with the adult?" 1051 01:00:45,725 --> 01:00:47,018 They would tell the juries, 1052 01:00:47,101 --> 01:00:49,145 "This kid was damaged goods by the time he came to us 1053 01:00:49,228 --> 01:00:51,439 because the kid had been emotionally troubled." 1054 01:00:51,981 --> 01:00:53,775 -[interviewer] Damaged goods? -Damaged goods. 1055 01:00:53,858 --> 01:00:58,613 Because one of the ironies of this is that, abuse experts will tell you, 1056 01:00:58,696 --> 01:01:03,117 that kids who are troubled in some way, emotionally troubled, 1057 01:01:03,201 --> 01:01:06,788 are particularly vulnerable to the attention of an adult 1058 01:01:06,871 --> 01:01:09,832 who is grooming them, and then, among other things, 1059 01:01:09,916 --> 01:01:11,918 starts luring them into sexual activity. 1060 01:01:14,796 --> 01:01:15,880 Lawyers would call me. 1061 01:01:15,963 --> 01:01:18,966 "Can I come see your files?" Lawyers had always been generous to me. 1062 01:01:19,050 --> 01:01:21,719 I consider these public record. So I said, "Sure, come by my house." 1063 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,974 One of the attorneys who came to get the files was Tim Kosnoff. 1064 01:01:27,850 --> 01:01:30,687 [Kosnoff] I tracked Boyle down and he was living in D.C. 1065 01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:34,357 I said, "What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna hire a high-speed scanning service 1066 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,901 to come and set two scanners up in that bedroom 1067 01:01:36,984 --> 01:01:38,736 and they're gonna scan all those files." 1068 01:01:38,820 --> 01:01:40,947 There were about 150,000 pages. 1069 01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:46,369 We litigated that up to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court said 1070 01:01:46,452 --> 01:01:50,081 the Boy Scouts had to produce an additional 3,200 files. 1071 01:01:53,418 --> 01:01:56,170 You'd read about the Boy Scouts going to trial somewhere, 1072 01:01:56,254 --> 01:01:58,715 and they usually got the snot kicked out of them. 1073 01:01:58,798 --> 01:02:00,633 [suspenseful string music playing] 1074 01:02:01,134 --> 01:02:04,137 One huge blunder came in Portland. 1075 01:02:04,220 --> 01:02:06,431 That was a case involving the Mormon Church. 1076 01:02:06,514 --> 01:02:08,891 The Mormons wisely settled that case. 1077 01:02:08,975 --> 01:02:11,894 But the Boy Scouts threw the dice in Oregon, 1078 01:02:11,978 --> 01:02:15,231 which was the worst place in the world for them to roll the dice 1079 01:02:15,314 --> 01:02:17,316 because Oregon has punitive damages. 1080 01:02:18,359 --> 01:02:21,904 [Boyle] The Portland lawsuit brought by Kerry Lewis was a watershed moment, 1081 01:02:21,988 --> 01:02:24,657 and it was really a big explosion in the face of the Boy Scouts. 1082 01:02:26,951 --> 01:02:29,495 [Mones] Kerry was moleste by Timur Dykes. 1083 01:02:33,666 --> 01:02:37,920 Timur Dykes was a Scout leader in a Mormon-sponsored troop. 1084 01:02:38,796 --> 01:02:41,132 There was a warning about him to the local bishop. 1085 01:02:41,215 --> 01:02:43,134 The bishop still allowed him to stay in the troop. 1086 01:02:43,217 --> 01:02:46,471 And he molested at some point, I believe, 1087 01:02:46,554 --> 01:02:49,932 15 to 17 of the 31 kids in the troop. 1088 01:02:52,143 --> 01:02:57,315 We wanted to put for the jury that Kerry Lewis was a victim 1089 01:02:57,398 --> 01:03:00,943 of not just Timur Dykes but of the Boy Scouts of America. 1090 01:03:01,027 --> 01:03:03,029 [music intensifies] 1091 01:03:06,324 --> 01:03:09,786 We wanted the jury to have a granular understanding 1092 01:03:09,869 --> 01:03:14,290 of what the Boy Scouts knew historically about the problem of sexual abuse. 1093 01:03:16,167 --> 01:03:20,546 [Kosnoff] The jury came back and awarded the plaintiff in that case $18 million. 1094 01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:22,757 That, of course, made a lot of headlines. 1095 01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:28,179 And then those lawyers got the court to order that these perversion files, 1096 01:03:28,262 --> 01:03:31,307 that they come into the public record as evidence in that trial. 1097 01:03:31,390 --> 01:03:34,060 And therefore, the public had a right of access to them. 1098 01:03:37,396 --> 01:03:40,525 [Kelly Clark] We are today releasing, pursuant to court order, 1099 01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:44,362 uh, about 1,200 files, uh, 1100 01:03:44,445 --> 01:03:49,367 kept by the Boy Scouts of America historically from 1965 to 1985, 1101 01:03:49,450 --> 01:03:50,910 that the Boy Scouts of America 1102 01:03:50,993 --> 01:03:53,663 has historically referred to as the "perversion files." 1103 01:03:53,746 --> 01:03:55,289 [intriguing music playing] 1104 01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:58,876 [Mones] Kerry Lewis became the voice of a lot of voiceless people. 1105 01:03:59,418 --> 01:04:02,463 The significance to the public is the same significance 1106 01:04:02,547 --> 01:04:06,551 as it was at trial to the jury, which is that they represent 1107 01:04:06,634 --> 01:04:10,805 a body of knowledge that the Boy Scouts of America had 1108 01:04:10,888 --> 01:04:16,477 that no other youth organization had at that time or-- or since. 1109 01:04:16,561 --> 01:04:18,563 [dramatic music playing] 1110 01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:23,359 I just don't believe the Boy Scouts understood, 1111 01:04:23,442 --> 01:04:27,697 really understood, the gravity of what it was. 1112 01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:29,907 The femoral artery was cut, 1113 01:04:30,575 --> 01:04:33,202 and they were slowly bleeding out, but they didn't see it that way. 1114 01:04:35,371 --> 01:04:38,207 The Boy Scouts had knew this stuff was going on 1115 01:04:38,291 --> 01:04:41,377 and just swept it under the rug, or didn't call the cops, 1116 01:04:41,460 --> 01:04:43,254 or didn't call social services 1117 01:04:43,337 --> 01:04:47,008 and let the lives of these boys just be torn asunder. 1118 01:04:49,302 --> 01:04:51,804 [male reporter] The Boy Scouts have resisted legal efforts 1119 01:04:51,888 --> 01:04:53,931 to make more of the files public. 1120 01:04:54,015 --> 01:04:57,059 Now, however, details have been put online, 1121 01:04:57,143 --> 01:05:00,605 listing the names of some 1,900 Scout leaders 1122 01:05:00,688 --> 01:05:03,190 suspected or convicted of abusing children. 1123 01:05:03,774 --> 01:05:06,777 Victims' rights attorney, Tim Kosnoff, posted the list. 1124 01:05:06,861 --> 01:05:10,656 The cat was pretty much out of the bag, involving the Boy Scouts of America. 1125 01:05:12,867 --> 01:05:17,163 They have abused their privilege and their position since the beginning 1126 01:05:17,246 --> 01:05:19,916 because they never told people 1127 01:05:19,999 --> 01:05:22,084 about the nature and extent of the problem. 1128 01:05:22,168 --> 01:05:24,879 They never told parents. They never warned Scouts. 1129 01:05:25,463 --> 01:05:30,635 So they became an organization which was lying to the American people, 1130 01:05:30,718 --> 01:05:33,304 to parents, and to Congress in their annual reports 1131 01:05:33,387 --> 01:05:35,806 about the actual risks of Scouting. 1132 01:05:39,185 --> 01:05:41,771 [Boyle] It's frankly hard for me to understand, even to this day, 1133 01:05:41,854 --> 01:05:43,856 how you could have all those files 1134 01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:47,026 about sex abuse in your organization and not think you had a problem. 1135 01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:48,986 And let's just give the best intentions. 1136 01:05:49,070 --> 01:05:52,156 The guys running the Boy Scouts had a very good program, 1137 01:05:52,239 --> 01:05:54,659 they believed in it, and didn't want to put it at risk 1138 01:05:54,742 --> 01:05:57,703 by scaring people unnecessarily about a small problem. 1139 01:05:57,787 --> 01:06:00,706 The question is, when do you decide a small problem isn't small? 1140 01:06:02,416 --> 01:06:05,628 [Hamilton] It's a lot like the Catholic Church with its secret archives. 1141 01:06:05,711 --> 01:06:10,007 Adults are keeping track of their potential liabilities. 1142 01:06:10,091 --> 01:06:15,096 They see that this is potentially problematic for them and their reputation. 1143 01:06:17,223 --> 01:06:20,935 The Boy Scouts represents itself as a place of honor. 1144 01:06:21,435 --> 01:06:25,147 And so, these files are the evidence 1145 01:06:25,231 --> 01:06:28,567 that could hurt their reputation as being honorable. 1146 01:06:30,236 --> 01:06:35,074 So the instinctual move was to just make sure they buried it, 1147 01:06:35,157 --> 01:06:38,911 because the institution is more important than the individual. 1148 01:06:42,373 --> 01:06:44,667 [Kosnoff] The only defenses that the Boy Scouts 1149 01:06:44,750 --> 01:06:47,628 and their insurance companies have had in all these years 1150 01:06:47,712 --> 01:06:49,338 is the statute of limitations, 1151 01:06:49,422 --> 01:06:53,217 where these regressive, predator-friendly laws 1152 01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:57,555 have closed the courthouse doors to victims at age 21. 1153 01:06:58,806 --> 01:07:01,392 A statute of limitations is just a deadline. 1154 01:07:01,976 --> 01:07:03,561 It's the arbitrary deadline 1155 01:07:03,644 --> 01:07:06,605 set for when you file a lawsuit or you prosecute. 1156 01:07:06,689 --> 01:07:09,608 We don't have a statute of limitations for murder. 1157 01:07:09,692 --> 01:07:13,446 We tend to have shorter statutes of limitations for contract disputes. 1158 01:07:13,529 --> 01:07:17,658 Child sex abuse in this universe is a lot more like murder 1159 01:07:17,742 --> 01:07:19,285 than it is like a contract 1160 01:07:19,368 --> 01:07:23,414 because the victim didn't understand what happened to them. 1161 01:07:23,497 --> 01:07:24,790 [tapping on keyboard] 1162 01:07:24,874 --> 01:07:31,213 Child sex abuse festers and lives on in the soul of the child for decades. 1163 01:07:31,297 --> 01:07:33,466 It's not a broken leg. 1164 01:07:33,549 --> 01:07:35,676 The more I worked on statute of limitations, 1165 01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,889 the more I saw that we were just suppressing the victims 1166 01:07:39,972 --> 01:07:46,270 across the United States, silencing them, and empowering the organizations. 1167 01:07:46,937 --> 01:07:48,731 When I started looking at this 1168 01:07:48,814 --> 01:07:52,026 in the midst of the Catholic sex abuse scandal, 1169 01:07:52,109 --> 01:07:56,822 I started to ask what would happen if you just said, 1170 01:07:56,906 --> 01:07:59,492 "Forget the statute of limitations. Let's just get rid of it." 1171 01:07:59,575 --> 01:08:02,328 So I started working on those issues. 1172 01:08:02,411 --> 01:08:08,292 Right now, we're in the midst of this vibrant social movement 1173 01:08:08,375 --> 01:08:12,838 in which survivors are coming forward and demanding justice. 1174 01:08:12,922 --> 01:08:16,217 And they changed the world with their stories, no question about it. 1175 01:08:17,176 --> 01:08:22,139 And lawmakers, even those who love the Boy Scouts, 1176 01:08:22,223 --> 01:08:26,560 or love the churches, or love the boarding schools, 1177 01:08:26,644 --> 01:08:31,857 those people are actually paying attention and siding with the children. 1178 01:08:31,941 --> 01:08:34,735 And so now, a third of the states have completely opened 1179 01:08:34,819 --> 01:08:36,862 the statute of limitations at some point. 1180 01:08:39,448 --> 01:08:42,701 [Michael Pfau] When the statute of limitations changed 1181 01:08:42,785 --> 01:08:44,995 in New York, New Jersey, and California, 1182 01:08:45,079 --> 01:08:49,917 three very, very populous states with lots of people, 1183 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,002 lots of children, and lots of Scouts, 1184 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,757 the Boy Scouts faced exposure that they'd never faced before. 1185 01:09:01,387 --> 01:09:05,391 [Hurley] The Boy Scouts concluded that they were gonna get inundated with claims, 1186 01:09:05,474 --> 01:09:06,475 which they were, 1187 01:09:06,559 --> 01:09:10,229 and they felt that the easiest way for them to manage that 1188 01:09:10,312 --> 01:09:11,397 would be bankruptcy. 1189 01:09:11,480 --> 01:09:13,482 [dramatic string music playing] 1190 01:09:17,069 --> 01:09:19,363 [male reporter] The clock is ticking for survivors of abuse 1191 01:09:19,446 --> 01:09:20,698 by Boy Scout leaders. 1192 01:09:20,781 --> 01:09:23,492 Monday is the deadline to file a proof of claim 1193 01:09:23,576 --> 01:09:26,537 before potentially losing that chance forever. 1194 01:09:28,164 --> 01:09:31,709 [Kennedy] When the bankruptcy occurred and claims started to get filed, 1195 01:09:31,792 --> 01:09:34,879 I was asked for a prediction, and I said… 1196 01:09:34,962 --> 01:09:39,633 [exhales] "I'm gonna say, on the high end, maybe 10,000 people are gonna come forth." 1197 01:09:39,717 --> 01:09:43,095 [phones ringing] 1198 01:09:44,096 --> 01:09:47,433 [Jason Amala] You start to see the numbers come in, and we're passing 20,000, 1199 01:09:47,516 --> 01:09:51,562 we're passing 30,000, we're passing 40,000, passing 50,000. 1200 01:09:52,188 --> 01:09:53,439 And it's like, "Oh my God." 1201 01:09:54,607 --> 01:09:56,817 [Hurley] We knew it was gonna be a big number, 1202 01:09:56,901 --> 01:10:01,322 but I have to say, I was amazed at how big that number got. 1203 01:10:04,909 --> 01:10:08,579 A staggering 82,000 alleged victims 1204 01:10:08,662 --> 01:10:12,416 have made sexual abuse claims against the Boy Scouts of America. 1205 01:10:12,499 --> 01:10:17,421 We've gone from 231 files about abusers, didn't know how many victims then, 1206 01:10:17,504 --> 01:10:21,467 to 82,000 victims, which is just mind-blowing. 1207 01:10:21,550 --> 01:10:22,551 [music fades] 1208 01:10:25,679 --> 01:10:29,683 [Kennedy] I think at the heart of the experience for a lot of survivors 1209 01:10:29,767 --> 01:10:32,102 is that notion of not being in control. 1210 01:10:32,186 --> 01:10:35,689 I wasn't in control when I was abused. 1211 01:10:35,773 --> 01:10:40,277 My abuser controlled that situation leading up to it, and during, and after. 1212 01:10:40,361 --> 01:10:45,616 So, anytime I can take back a little bit of control for what happened to me, 1213 01:10:45,699 --> 01:10:47,368 it's very, very powerful. 1214 01:10:47,451 --> 01:10:50,329 [dramatic, pensive music playing] 1215 01:11:00,506 --> 01:11:02,216 [Nussbaum] I'm not out to be a millionaire. 1216 01:11:02,299 --> 01:11:03,717 I'm not out to get a bunch of money. 1217 01:11:03,801 --> 01:11:06,303 I have a great retirement from the military. 1218 01:11:06,387 --> 01:11:07,846 I-- I don't need that. 1219 01:11:07,930 --> 01:11:09,306 What I'm hoping to get out 1220 01:11:09,390 --> 01:11:13,143 is that no child will ever be hurt again the way I was. 1221 01:11:14,144 --> 01:11:17,064 That has always been my goal, that has always been my number one thing, 1222 01:11:17,147 --> 01:11:19,525 was that the Boy Scouts not only are responsible, 1223 01:11:19,608 --> 01:11:21,610 take responsibility for what happened, 1224 01:11:21,694 --> 01:11:24,321 but they have a new campaign and a new challenge, 1225 01:11:24,405 --> 01:11:26,365 and that's to make sure this never happens again. 1226 01:11:28,993 --> 01:11:31,745 [Krumins] There isn't a single survivor that's in this for the money. 1227 01:11:31,829 --> 01:11:34,665 That is not the driving force for any of us. 1228 01:11:34,748 --> 01:11:37,418 We want to feel like our voices are heard. 1229 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,379 We want to feel like there's an opportunity to heal. 1230 01:11:40,462 --> 01:11:42,339 [sad string music playing] 1231 01:11:42,423 --> 01:11:46,302 [John Sakowicz] I'm speaking on behalf of no other survivor or no other group, 1232 01:11:46,385 --> 01:11:50,180 but I will tell you unequivocally, I want to speak for the dead. 1233 01:11:50,264 --> 01:11:52,683 I wanna speak for those kids who did not survive, 1234 01:11:52,766 --> 01:11:57,563 those kids who were lost to suicide, alcohol, addiction, mutilation, 1235 01:11:57,646 --> 01:11:59,273 self-mutilation, self-harm. 1236 01:11:59,356 --> 01:12:03,694 I'm here to speak for my Pa-- friend, Patrick… um… 1237 01:12:05,654 --> 01:12:07,114 who I miss to this day. 1238 01:12:11,201 --> 01:12:13,203 [music continues] 1239 01:12:15,247 --> 01:12:20,836 The time has come for a full accounting of what has gone on in this organization, 1240 01:12:20,919 --> 01:12:23,881 which, in my opinion, is nothing less than an atrocity. 1241 01:12:23,964 --> 01:12:25,424 And it has to stop. 1242 01:12:26,216 --> 01:12:28,677 [Douglas Baird] Negotiations in a bankruptcy are often heated. 1243 01:12:28,761 --> 01:12:32,973 This particular case has been unusually and extremely difficult. 1244 01:12:33,057 --> 01:12:34,767 [intriguing music playing] 1245 01:12:34,850 --> 01:12:38,062 The Boy Scouts' case may be one of the most complicated 1246 01:12:38,145 --> 01:12:40,773 and structurally difficult bankruptcies ever. 1247 01:12:41,357 --> 01:12:45,527 In the simplest bankruptcy case, typically the debtor will have assets. 1248 01:12:46,195 --> 01:12:50,199 If it's a business, then that business will have assets. 1249 01:12:50,282 --> 01:12:51,992 It'll have airplanes, it'll have machinery. 1250 01:12:52,076 --> 01:12:54,328 If you think of a typical corporation, 1251 01:12:54,411 --> 01:12:56,455 figuring out its assets is just not that hard. 1252 01:12:56,538 --> 01:12:58,332 At-- At some fundamental level, 1253 01:12:58,415 --> 01:13:00,667 you can just sell the assets, turn it into cash. 1254 01:13:00,751 --> 01:13:03,504 It becomes much, much harder when what you have 1255 01:13:03,587 --> 01:13:08,342 is not one neat pile of assets, but many related organizations, 1256 01:13:08,425 --> 01:13:12,012 all of whom may or may not be legally responsible. 1257 01:13:13,514 --> 01:13:17,434 If, for example, you are victimized and you were in South Dakota, 1258 01:13:17,518 --> 01:13:20,229 not clear you should have any claim to assets 1259 01:13:20,312 --> 01:13:23,273 that are owned by a local organization in New York, 1260 01:13:23,357 --> 01:13:24,650 and vice versa. 1261 01:13:24,733 --> 01:13:28,362 It's not clear that you might all have rights against the national organization. 1262 01:13:28,445 --> 01:13:31,740 But how many assets does the national organization actually have? 1263 01:13:32,324 --> 01:13:36,870 Put simply, pooling together the assets in this case is enormously complicated. 1264 01:13:37,538 --> 01:13:40,624 Ultimately, we really should care about the victims 1265 01:13:40,707 --> 01:13:43,752 and whether they're actually getting their rights vindicated. 1266 01:13:43,836 --> 01:13:47,464 And in this complicated a process, with this many moving pieces, 1267 01:13:47,548 --> 01:13:49,383 it's hard to say that's actually happening. 1268 01:13:50,801 --> 01:13:52,928 [Hamilton] No one was thinking about child sex abuse 1269 01:13:53,011 --> 01:13:55,139 when Chapter 11 was put into place. 1270 01:13:55,222 --> 01:13:59,726 So, now you get a bad actor is the debtor, 1271 01:13:59,810 --> 01:14:02,438 and the whole legal scaffolding 1272 01:14:02,521 --> 01:14:06,942 that is now around the debtor is all about protecting the debtor. 1273 01:14:07,025 --> 01:14:12,322 All of a sudden, sex abuse victims in the thousands are now creditors. 1274 01:14:12,406 --> 01:14:16,743 They are legally equivalent to the roofer that wasn't paid yet. 1275 01:14:16,827 --> 01:14:20,330 And they're told they're now a herd, 1276 01:14:21,039 --> 01:14:24,376 and they're not going to have individual lawsuits. 1277 01:14:25,878 --> 01:14:30,007 We've drafted legislation to amend the bankruptcy code because of that. 1278 01:14:30,090 --> 01:14:35,721 I mean, it simply was never intended to be a warehouse for sex abuse survivors. 1279 01:14:39,057 --> 01:14:41,185 [Baird] You worry a lawyer will settle on the cheap. 1280 01:14:41,935 --> 01:14:45,564 Why litigate a case in full if, with a one-minute phone call, 1281 01:14:45,647 --> 01:14:47,649 I can get half that amount? 1282 01:14:47,733 --> 01:14:50,110 It's not great for the victim, but very good for the lawyer 1283 01:14:50,194 --> 01:14:54,406 because they're still getting 30% or 50% for doing almost no work. 1284 01:14:54,490 --> 01:14:57,826 That's what you need to worry about, the ways in which the lawyer's incentives 1285 01:14:57,910 --> 01:15:00,454 are gonna depart from the incentives of the victim. 1286 01:15:02,456 --> 01:15:05,667 Chapter 11 bankruptcy is not the place for child abuse. 1287 01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:14,092 [Hamilton] It's a legal proceeding that turns the victims into collateral damage, 1288 01:15:14,176 --> 01:15:16,094 just like they were as a kid. 1289 01:15:16,178 --> 01:15:21,308 And then you reach the settlement, you know, the end of the bankruptcy, 1290 01:15:21,391 --> 01:15:24,102 and what is the glory of that? 1291 01:15:24,186 --> 01:15:26,688 The offending institution gets to live on. 1292 01:15:27,397 --> 01:15:28,815 And they get to say, 1293 01:15:28,899 --> 01:15:32,402 "If you didn't come forward during the bankruptcy, you don't have a claim." 1294 01:15:33,654 --> 01:15:36,406 Bankruptcy is constructed for the powerful. 1295 01:15:37,115 --> 01:15:38,575 And the powerful win. 1296 01:15:42,871 --> 01:15:45,374 [interviewer] The Boy Scouts argued for a very long time 1297 01:15:45,457 --> 01:15:47,459 that sexual abuse was a minuscule problem. 1298 01:15:47,543 --> 01:15:49,920 This was a minuscule problem. This was a small thing. 1299 01:15:50,003 --> 01:15:53,006 Given the existence of the files, everything that we know now, 1300 01:15:53,090 --> 01:15:56,927 82,000 people coming forward, this is a lot of real individuals in pain. 1301 01:15:58,428 --> 01:16:00,681 That was a lie. That was a cover-up, right? 1302 01:16:00,764 --> 01:16:03,141 The Boy Scouts lied about that not being a problem. 1303 01:16:03,225 --> 01:16:06,061 Oh yeah, 82,000 over what period of time? 1304 01:16:06,770 --> 01:16:09,565 And we don't even know that that's the number. 1305 01:16:09,648 --> 01:16:10,857 But one is too many. 1306 01:16:10,941 --> 01:16:13,235 -[interviewer] But why should-- -One was too many. 1307 01:16:13,318 --> 01:16:14,695 [pensive string music playing] 1308 01:16:14,778 --> 01:16:17,030 We're a microcosm of the society that we're in. 1309 01:16:17,114 --> 01:16:19,658 Ninety-five percent of abuse happens in the home, 1310 01:16:19,741 --> 01:16:21,743 or with someone within the family. 1311 01:16:22,244 --> 01:16:26,540 What have you read lately in the news about kids that are being sexually abused? 1312 01:16:26,623 --> 01:16:30,252 It's happening in the schools, and it's happening in other places. 1313 01:16:31,587 --> 01:16:33,630 We believe one of the best ways we can do it, 1314 01:16:33,714 --> 01:16:35,716 in addition to all the things we're doing, 1315 01:16:35,799 --> 01:16:38,802 is to set up a basis by which you can track these people 1316 01:16:38,885 --> 01:16:41,763 and keep them from getting into organizations. 1317 01:16:41,847 --> 01:16:45,726 Because that's what we know they do do, is they seek access to youth. 1318 01:16:46,643 --> 01:16:49,605 Until we can prevent them from getting access to youth, 1319 01:16:49,688 --> 01:16:53,483 we will never be as far along the road in protecting these kids. 1320 01:16:53,567 --> 01:16:55,777 And that, to us, is the most important thing. 1321 01:16:57,821 --> 01:16:59,865 Is it absolutely, perfectly safe, 1322 01:16:59,948 --> 01:17:02,451 and you guarantee no one will ever have an accident, 1323 01:17:02,534 --> 01:17:05,454 no one will ever have an undesirable person doing something, 1324 01:17:05,537 --> 01:17:06,997 or trying to do something with them? 1325 01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,207 No, you create as many safeguards as you can. 1326 01:17:11,376 --> 01:17:14,254 There's no perfect plan, and there's no endless stream of money. 1327 01:17:14,338 --> 01:17:17,799 And no amount of money is gonna compensate any of these survivors, 1328 01:17:17,883 --> 01:17:20,177 any of these victims, for what happened to them. 1329 01:17:20,260 --> 01:17:24,056 No amount of apologies is ever going to erase, 1330 01:17:24,139 --> 01:17:26,600 and that's not what we're trying to do. 1331 01:17:26,683 --> 01:17:28,518 We're bringing them into our governance. 1332 01:17:28,602 --> 01:17:30,395 We're bringing them into our youth protection. 1333 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:33,482 We're asking survivors that are willing to come out and come forward 1334 01:17:33,565 --> 01:17:37,069 and to monitor what we're doing because we are committed to this. 1335 01:17:37,152 --> 01:17:38,779 But nobody is more sorry, 1336 01:17:39,529 --> 01:17:43,575 and nobody thinks that the compensation these survivors get will ever be enough. 1337 01:17:46,578 --> 01:17:49,581 [interviewer] Kind of the way I see it is that trust is key to the Scouts. 1338 01:17:49,665 --> 01:17:52,542 I mean, I don't want to put my kids in the Scouts unless I trust them. 1339 01:17:52,626 --> 01:17:54,252 You can go ask-- go ask the leaders. 1340 01:17:54,336 --> 01:17:57,130 [interviewer] What-- What? I'm asking you. I'm asking you. 1341 01:17:57,214 --> 01:17:58,632 -[chuckles] -I'd go visit units. 1342 01:17:58,715 --> 01:18:00,008 I'd go look at the units. 1343 01:18:00,092 --> 01:18:02,427 [interviewer] Why should Americans trust the Scouts? 1344 01:18:02,511 --> 01:18:05,639 Why should we look at this and say, "They've got it"? 1345 01:18:05,722 --> 01:18:08,934 Look at what we're doing to keep kids safe. 1346 01:18:10,394 --> 01:18:13,188 Look at the protections that we're offering, 1347 01:18:13,271 --> 01:18:14,690 and then make up your own mind. 1348 01:18:21,113 --> 01:18:23,073 [music fades] 1349 01:18:23,156 --> 01:18:24,658 [Johnson] The whole 95% thing, 1350 01:18:24,741 --> 01:18:27,619 he talks about things like he's an expert on this, 1351 01:18:27,703 --> 01:18:30,622 which he's not even factually accurate or correct. 1352 01:18:32,416 --> 01:18:36,044 He's deflecting to general society, 1353 01:18:36,128 --> 01:18:39,214 and schools, and all that, and not focusing on-- I mean, listen. 1354 01:18:41,508 --> 01:18:46,555 The Boy Scouts of America is coming out of an 82,000-plus and counting 1355 01:18:46,638 --> 01:18:50,559 boys-to-men survivors of sexual abuse. 1356 01:18:50,642 --> 01:18:53,687 And he's deflecting to talk about other entities? 1357 01:18:56,106 --> 01:19:00,402 Boy Scouts wants society to think that sexual abuse 1358 01:19:00,485 --> 01:19:03,280 in the Boy Scouts of America is all in the past. 1359 01:19:04,072 --> 01:19:05,615 Look at the numbers, 1360 01:19:05,699 --> 01:19:09,536 because there are a lot more 40, 30, 20 years ago. 1361 01:19:09,619 --> 01:19:14,249 But what they're not telling you is it takes a man, 1362 01:19:14,332 --> 01:19:18,003 not as a boy, a man, at least 20 years-- 1363 01:19:18,086 --> 01:19:21,047 And again, "if they tell anybody about it." 1364 01:19:21,131 --> 01:19:25,343 "Most men" only tell somebody who's, like, 1365 01:19:25,427 --> 01:19:28,555 their wife or a therapist, or somebody that's trusted to them, 1366 01:19:28,638 --> 01:19:32,934 but most of them never tell anybody that can do anything about it and stop it. 1367 01:19:33,018 --> 01:19:36,813 I want you to think about that for boys that are currently in Scouting right now. 1368 01:19:39,775 --> 01:19:41,902 Keep in mind, there's been no congressional 1369 01:19:41,985 --> 01:19:45,155 statewide investigation into what happened. 1370 01:19:50,702 --> 01:19:54,831 [Kennedy] The only way this isn't going to continue to happen 1371 01:19:54,915 --> 01:19:59,544 is if someone steps forward and says, "We need to investigate this." 1372 01:20:00,337 --> 01:20:03,799 Whether it's a congressperson, senator, president, 1373 01:20:03,882 --> 01:20:06,968 that's willing to have the courage to say-- 1374 01:20:07,052 --> 01:20:10,013 Department of Justice, some other entity. 1375 01:20:10,096 --> 01:20:12,224 "Let's figure out what happened here 1376 01:20:12,307 --> 01:20:15,519 because by understanding it, we can prevent it." 1377 01:20:15,602 --> 01:20:18,939 And I use the word "courage" very, very specifically 1378 01:20:19,022 --> 01:20:23,819 because part of the Boy Scouts charter, that's authorized by Congress, 1379 01:20:23,902 --> 01:20:29,115 lays out they're responsible for teaching patriotism and courage. 1380 01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:32,327 So that's what we need on the behalf of our elected leaders right now, 1381 01:20:32,410 --> 01:20:36,331 to step in and say, "What happened?" 1382 01:20:37,415 --> 01:20:41,044 "Let's get an idea of what we can do to solve this." 1383 01:20:41,127 --> 01:20:43,129 [suspenseful music playing] 1384 01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:52,931 [interviewer] You came forward in a pretty spectacular way 1385 01:20:53,014 --> 01:20:54,683 and spoke out against the Boy Scouts. 1386 01:20:54,766 --> 01:20:56,226 Why'd you want to come forward? 1387 01:20:56,309 --> 01:20:59,813 To me, being silent knowing what I know is being complicit. 1388 01:21:00,605 --> 01:21:02,607 You talk to the people who "know me" know me, 1389 01:21:02,691 --> 01:21:05,443 they know I don't yield, I don't quit. 1390 01:21:05,527 --> 01:21:08,947 And I was working up to the day I left to keep Scouts safe, 1391 01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:13,952 even though I knew that it was, like, four steps forward, two steps back. 1392 01:21:14,703 --> 01:21:19,207 Part of my employment contract had a part in there that, to get my severance, 1393 01:21:19,291 --> 01:21:22,335 that I had to sign a form, a waiver with them. 1394 01:21:22,419 --> 01:21:25,171 And they said, "No, you can't talk to anybody about anything 1395 01:21:25,255 --> 01:21:27,757 that has anything to do with the Boy Scouts of America." 1396 01:21:28,508 --> 01:21:31,011 I don't do excuses. Either you do it, or you don't. 1397 01:21:31,094 --> 01:21:34,598 That's how my daddy raised me, you know? Either you do it, or you don't. 1398 01:21:34,681 --> 01:21:37,559 I went in the Boy Scouts of America to do a job. 1399 01:21:37,642 --> 01:21:41,271 I went in there to help the organization do a better job of keeping kids safe. 1400 01:21:41,354 --> 01:21:43,398 I was-- And I would say I had some successes, 1401 01:21:43,481 --> 01:21:46,359 even going up against the crap I was having to deal with. 1402 01:21:46,443 --> 01:21:48,945 Uh, but ultimately, I-- I failed. 1403 01:21:49,029 --> 01:21:49,905 [music building] 1404 01:21:49,988 --> 01:21:54,784 I'm here to tell you that the organization is still not safe for boys and girls. 1405 01:21:56,328 --> 01:21:59,831 I have investigated and protected children my whole life. 1406 01:21:59,915 --> 01:22:01,708 I am not gonna sit here and be quiet 1407 01:22:01,791 --> 01:22:05,795 while I know kids are still at risk of being sexually abused in Scouting. 1408 01:22:07,047 --> 01:22:10,342 So, if I am not saying anything, I am complicit. 1409 01:22:10,425 --> 01:22:12,135 That's not gonna happen. 1410 01:22:12,218 --> 01:22:13,637 I can't be complicit. 1411 01:22:14,429 --> 01:22:16,389 I said, "I'll walk away from it." 1412 01:22:17,682 --> 01:22:19,684 [music peaks, fades] 1413 01:22:21,186 --> 01:22:24,856 One of my epiphanies in life is I get to choose who defines me. 1414 01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:26,191 That's a big deal. 1415 01:22:26,274 --> 01:22:33,281 Today I will be introducing first Michael Johnson. 1416 01:22:33,365 --> 01:22:36,201 This call to action is not meant to end Scouting. 1417 01:22:36,284 --> 01:22:38,870 Anybody who knows me, you Scouters that are out there… 1418 01:22:38,954 --> 01:22:41,665 If you know me, you know that's not what this is about. 1419 01:22:41,748 --> 01:22:46,086 We must instead create the independent accountability 1420 01:22:46,169 --> 01:22:52,133 and oversight that is necessary for a safer Scouting program right now. 1421 01:22:52,884 --> 01:22:56,388 The organization, as it now stands, fails to meet this ideal. 1422 01:22:57,389 --> 01:23:01,142 It fails our nation, it fails our families, 1423 01:23:01,226 --> 01:23:03,478 it fails every Scout in the program. 1424 01:23:03,561 --> 01:23:04,980 [gentle music playing] 1425 01:23:05,063 --> 01:23:07,899 My good friend is a national survivor. 1426 01:23:07,983 --> 01:23:09,693 He's talked about his story. 1427 01:23:09,776 --> 01:23:11,653 He said, "Mike, let me explain something to you." 1428 01:23:11,736 --> 01:23:14,322 He said, "You show me a man that's been sexually abused, 1429 01:23:14,406 --> 01:23:15,824 I'll show you a lot of shame." 1430 01:23:15,907 --> 01:23:19,661 And I think about that. "Shame" is a big word for a man. 1431 01:23:20,203 --> 01:23:21,705 [voice breaking] And I told him, um… 1432 01:23:23,581 --> 01:23:27,502 And I said, "You know what? I don't like the idea of these men carrying any shame." 1433 01:23:27,585 --> 01:23:30,922 "If anybody ought to be carrying shame, it's the Boy Scouts of America." 1434 01:23:31,673 --> 01:23:36,344 To you survivors, and I feel strongly about speaking directly to you. 1435 01:23:36,428 --> 01:23:39,681 I've had the opportunity to meet numerous of you over the years, 1436 01:23:39,764 --> 01:23:41,975 while I was at Boy Scouts and since I've left. 1437 01:23:43,101 --> 01:23:44,227 [stifles sob] 1438 01:23:45,395 --> 01:23:47,230 [voice breaking] And then the Scouts… 1439 01:23:49,399 --> 01:23:50,650 that left Scouting… 1440 01:23:53,486 --> 01:23:54,487 [breathes heavily] 1441 01:23:55,613 --> 01:23:57,157 …because they didn't want to put up with 1442 01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,701 their sexual abuse-- their continued sexual abuse. 1443 01:24:02,287 --> 01:24:04,956 So, this is for each and every single one of you. 1444 01:24:05,707 --> 01:24:08,877 Because I never forgot you while I was there, 1445 01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,213 and I will never forget you and your experiences. 1446 01:24:14,799 --> 01:24:16,968 The survivors have been very kind. 1447 01:24:17,761 --> 01:24:18,970 Uh, you know, the guys… 1448 01:24:19,054 --> 01:24:20,305 [inhales] Um… 1449 01:24:26,895 --> 01:24:29,314 These men have validated what I did. 1450 01:24:29,939 --> 01:24:33,068 They're the courageous. They're the ones that are heroic. 1451 01:24:37,655 --> 01:24:39,741 [Haywood] What made me want to say something? 1452 01:24:40,325 --> 01:24:41,284 I got tired. 1453 01:24:41,868 --> 01:24:43,620 It was either now or never. 1454 01:24:45,246 --> 01:24:49,709 I can remember on the night, my mother was staying on 73rd and Coles. 1455 01:24:51,878 --> 01:24:57,050 And Carl lived 72nd and South Shore Drive, which is right around the corner. 1456 01:24:58,093 --> 01:25:00,887 I had just built up the courage in me, 1457 01:25:00,970 --> 01:25:04,974 and something in my-- in me said, "Leave. Leave." 1458 01:25:06,768 --> 01:25:10,188 He was there at the house. I ran out. And it's a high-rise building. 1459 01:25:10,271 --> 01:25:13,858 I didn't even take the elevator. I ran down the stairs. Left everything. 1460 01:25:13,942 --> 01:25:16,778 Just whatever I had on is what went with me. 1461 01:25:17,362 --> 01:25:22,659 And, you know, I ran in with this look on my face and the feeling over me. 1462 01:25:22,742 --> 01:25:24,244 [hopeful music playing] 1463 01:25:24,327 --> 01:25:26,955 So, I get to my mother's house. 1464 01:25:27,038 --> 01:25:29,541 She just keeps saying, "What happened? What happened?" 1465 01:25:30,041 --> 01:25:34,003 It just was building. It was-- It was building. And my blood was boiling. 1466 01:25:35,797 --> 01:25:37,966 The following day, I wind up telling her. 1467 01:25:39,676 --> 01:25:42,262 It felt like a lot of stuff was released. 1468 01:25:43,096 --> 01:25:46,391 I knew it was over after me leaving there that night, 1469 01:25:46,474 --> 01:25:47,851 that it was done. 1470 01:25:48,977 --> 01:25:52,272 I feel like now I can better share my story. 1471 01:25:53,690 --> 01:25:56,067 I felt justice could come my way. 1472 01:25:58,069 --> 01:26:00,321 -[dramatic string music playing] -[dog barks] 1473 01:26:02,073 --> 01:26:05,493 [Kennedy] I kept this bottled up until I was about 50, 1474 01:26:05,994 --> 01:26:09,747 and was going through some struggles. 1475 01:26:09,831 --> 01:26:11,833 Midlife crisis, I guess. 1476 01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:15,211 My wife and I, we had grown apart a little bit. 1477 01:26:16,171 --> 01:26:18,256 And she knew there was something else going on. 1478 01:26:18,339 --> 01:26:21,551 She knew that there was something I wasn't telling her. 1479 01:26:22,177 --> 01:26:23,094 And I told her. 1480 01:26:24,179 --> 01:26:28,474 Her initial reaction, I was so proud, was she was so angry. 1481 01:26:28,558 --> 01:26:30,560 She was so angry at what happened to me. 1482 01:26:30,643 --> 01:26:35,732 And-- And she said, you know, you know, "Goddamn Scouts." 1483 01:26:37,775 --> 01:26:42,363 My mother, the number of times I wanted to tell her, 1484 01:26:43,406 --> 01:26:46,409 "I just need to let you know something that happened to me, 1485 01:26:46,492 --> 01:26:52,415 and the reason why I became so distant at the end of high school and in college." 1486 01:26:52,498 --> 01:26:54,417 I mean, we never talked in college. 1487 01:26:55,335 --> 01:26:57,670 She eventually ended up getting lung cancer, 1488 01:26:57,754 --> 01:27:00,256 and the doctor called me in and said, 1489 01:27:00,340 --> 01:27:03,968 "Either you or me has to tell your mother she has inoperable lung cancer." 1490 01:27:04,552 --> 01:27:06,763 She ended up living three months. 1491 01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,852 [voice breaking] Um, we-- we shared a lot over those three months. 1492 01:27:13,811 --> 01:27:15,730 But-- But I never told her. 1493 01:27:19,484 --> 01:27:20,735 I never told her. [inhales] 1494 01:27:22,528 --> 01:27:25,823 [interviewer] When did you first tell somebody, come forward, talk about it? 1495 01:27:25,907 --> 01:27:28,243 Maybe, like, 15 years ago or something like that. 1496 01:27:28,326 --> 01:27:29,702 Like, when I was an adult already. 1497 01:27:30,620 --> 01:27:32,789 I never even considered telling anybody. 1498 01:27:32,872 --> 01:27:36,292 Maybe it's just because so many people did come forward or whatever. 1499 01:27:36,376 --> 01:27:38,962 For the most part, this right now is the first time, uh, 1500 01:27:39,045 --> 01:27:41,005 most people are gonna find out, you know? 1501 01:27:41,089 --> 01:27:43,132 I'm embarrassed of this shit. 1502 01:27:43,216 --> 01:27:45,635 [voice breaking] I really am. It embarrasses me. It's like… 1503 01:27:46,928 --> 01:27:48,972 It sucks, man. It just sucks. 1504 01:27:49,931 --> 01:27:52,183 It makes me so-- I have such anger problems. 1505 01:27:52,267 --> 01:27:56,437 I just get so mad, I feel like I just got cheated out of so much shit in my life 1506 01:27:56,521 --> 01:27:59,065 because of this shit, like, for real, just cheated out of it. 1507 01:28:01,526 --> 01:28:03,403 It's cathartic. I mean, really and truly. 1508 01:28:03,486 --> 01:28:05,738 I mean, it feels hurt, but it feels good too 1509 01:28:05,822 --> 01:28:08,283 because, you know, I don't want to have this feeling forever. 1510 01:28:08,366 --> 01:28:10,326 I don't want to have it anymore. 1511 01:28:11,995 --> 01:28:13,997 [music fades] 1512 01:28:14,956 --> 01:28:16,332 [Nussbaum] I just wish, uh… 1513 01:28:18,084 --> 01:28:21,504 I wish they were alive today, so I could tell them what happened to me. 1514 01:28:23,589 --> 01:28:25,591 You know, keeping that a secret for so long. 1515 01:28:30,138 --> 01:28:30,972 [sniffles] 1516 01:28:33,224 --> 01:28:34,642 I honestly think, uh… 1517 01:28:36,894 --> 01:28:40,023 I think my parents would-- My father would have been receptive 1518 01:28:40,690 --> 01:28:41,733 and understood. 1519 01:28:42,442 --> 01:28:44,360 He probably would have been angry. [chuckles] 1520 01:28:44,861 --> 01:28:46,821 Angry that I didn't tell him sooner. 1521 01:28:52,702 --> 01:28:54,203 It's just something you keep. 1522 01:28:54,787 --> 01:28:56,998 And I'll let you all know this, uh, 1523 01:28:58,541 --> 01:29:01,419 five people in the room, you're the first that ever heard that. 1524 01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:06,215 Why now? 1525 01:29:07,342 --> 01:29:10,094 [inhales] Because I just feel like I, uh, unloaded 1526 01:29:10,178 --> 01:29:11,804 a ton of rocks off my shoulders. 1527 01:29:13,306 --> 01:29:14,766 [waves crashing] 1528 01:29:17,477 --> 01:29:20,021 To know you're not alone, though, is a different story. 1529 01:29:20,646 --> 01:29:22,315 To know you're not in a fight alone. 1530 01:29:24,108 --> 01:29:26,527 A fight for what? To be normal. To feel normal. 1531 01:29:32,283 --> 01:29:36,162 This is the trophy award my father got for being a scoutmaster. 1532 01:29:36,746 --> 01:29:39,582 [chuckling] It's seen better days, 1533 01:29:39,665 --> 01:29:43,211 but it's also the thing that gives me that connection to him 1534 01:29:43,294 --> 01:29:45,463 more than anything else, and, uh… 1535 01:29:47,173 --> 01:29:48,049 This is… 1536 01:29:49,467 --> 01:29:52,178 This is why I'm speaking up, 'cause, uh… 1537 01:29:56,474 --> 01:29:58,142 It's what an Eagle would do. 1538 01:29:59,477 --> 01:30:02,522 [chuckling] I can't tell you how many times I look at this, 1539 01:30:02,605 --> 01:30:04,607 and I'll just hold it this same way and I'll cry. 1540 01:30:10,571 --> 01:30:13,116 Some of the wings you can look and see 1541 01:30:13,199 --> 01:30:15,868 there's kind of a haphazard glue job on it 'cause… 1542 01:30:18,371 --> 01:30:22,125 at some points in the past, I've gotten so angry at what this represents 1543 01:30:22,208 --> 01:30:25,086 that I've just chucked it at the wall and then… [sniffles] 1544 01:30:28,881 --> 01:30:30,341 …struggled to piece it together. 1545 01:30:30,425 --> 01:30:32,427 [gentle string music playing] 1546 01:30:33,386 --> 01:30:37,890 This bankruptcy isn't the end. This is just one step in the process. 1547 01:30:38,683 --> 01:30:39,809 [music continues] 1548 01:31:22,059 --> 01:31:23,060 [music continues] 1549 01:33:11,711 --> 01:33:13,004 [music fades] 1550 01:33:13,087 --> 01:33:15,089 [birds chirping]