1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

3
00:00:21,772 --> 00:00:23,357
{\an8}
I must be in the mirror.

4
00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:25,276
{\an8}Uh-huh.
That's for Nicole.

5
00:00:25,276 --> 00:00:26,819
{\an8}Okay. Hm.

6
00:00:26,819 --> 00:00:28,612
{\an8}Well, honestly,
and I would love

7
00:00:28,612 --> 00:00:31,323
{\an8}if I had a chance to go
and buy some clothes.

8
00:00:31,323 --> 00:00:33,534
{\an8}Um...

9
00:00:33,534 --> 00:00:35,828
{\an8}Cut.

10
00:00:35,828 --> 00:00:37,496
{\an8}
Just one second, Dave.

11
00:00:37,496 --> 00:00:40,332
{\an8}Cole, you have to lean
back on the couch.

12
00:00:40,332 --> 00:00:42,585
Lean straight back, Cole.

13
00:00:42,585 --> 00:00:44,170
Okay.

14
00:00:44,170 --> 00:00:45,880
Um, I really want you
to take the lead in this.

15
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,758
I mean, I'm going to just ask
this and that question,

16
00:00:48,758 --> 00:00:51,427
but you take over
as much as you like.

17
00:00:51,427 --> 00:00:52,678
- Okay.
- You say that your book,

18
00:00:52,678 --> 00:00:55,681
in a sense, redefined sex.

19
00:00:55,681 --> 00:00:57,558
The stereotype in our culture

20
00:00:57,558 --> 00:01:00,561
has been that women should
orgasm from intercourse itself.

21
00:01:00,561 --> 00:01:03,272
That is from thrusting.

22
00:01:03,272 --> 00:01:05,483
- Billy, free to stop sniggering.

23
00:01:05,483 --> 00:01:06,859
Cut, please.

24
00:01:06,859 --> 00:01:08,486
At the start of your book,
you write,

25
00:01:08,486 --> 00:01:10,863
"Masturbation is,
in a very real sense,

26
00:01:10,863 --> 00:01:14,241
one of the most important
subjects discussed in this book

27
00:01:14,241 --> 00:01:16,368
and a cause for celebration."

28
00:01:16,368 --> 00:01:17,953
Would you talk about that?

29
00:01:17,953 --> 00:01:20,623
Well, masturbation is really
a cause for celebration

30
00:01:20,623 --> 00:01:24,210
because it represents
female sexuality underground.

31
00:01:24,210 --> 00:01:26,921
The majority of women,
even since Kinsey's time,

32
00:01:26,921 --> 00:01:29,507
know how to masturbate
to orgasm easily,

33
00:01:29,507 --> 00:01:31,133
regularly,
with great pleasure.

34
00:01:31,133 --> 00:01:33,552
So, this shows that women know
how to have orgasms

35
00:01:33,552 --> 00:01:36,764
when they want, contrary
to the popular stereotype

36
00:01:36,764 --> 00:01:39,391
that women have a "problem,"
in quotes,

37
00:01:39,391 --> 00:01:41,769
{\an8}with sex.

38
00:01:41,769 --> 00:01:44,438
{\an8}That's pretty
radical stuff for 1976.

39
00:01:44,438 --> 00:01:46,774
Yes, it was.
I looked sort of nervous.

40
00:01:46,774 --> 00:01:48,901
- Yeah.
- Did you feel nervous?

41
00:01:48,901 --> 00:01:51,278
I mean, you were talking about
things people didn't talk about.

42
00:01:51,278 --> 00:01:53,572
I suppose I was nervous,
of course.

43
00:01:55,491 --> 00:01:56,826
During the course
of this program,

44
00:01:56,826 --> 00:01:59,203
{\an8}we'll be talking about
intercourse,

45
00:01:59,203 --> 00:02:00,955
{\an8}masturbation, orgasm,

46
00:02:00,955 --> 00:02:04,333
{\an8}and other topics covered by
an extraordinary nationwide

47
00:02:04,333 --> 00:02:09,129
survey of female sexuality
called "The Hite Report."

48
00:02:09,713 --> 00:02:12,383
Shere, your book is
made up of this questionnaire.

49
00:02:12,383 --> 00:02:13,926
I'd like to know why you did it.

50
00:02:13,926 --> 00:02:16,428
I was in graduate school
and I was studying history

51
00:02:16,428 --> 00:02:18,639
of the Enlightenment,
of all things.

52
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,892
And it occurred to me
that sex also is an institution,

53
00:02:21,892 --> 00:02:24,436
especially the way
we practice intercourse,

54
00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:26,355
foreplay, and all of that.

55
00:02:26,355 --> 00:02:27,898
Who is Shere Hite?

56
00:02:27,898 --> 00:02:31,485
Her childhood interrupted
three times by divorce.

57
00:02:31,485 --> 00:02:33,654
A sexologist,
a social researcher,

58
00:02:33,654 --> 00:02:35,239
and even a cultural historian.

59
00:02:35,239 --> 00:02:37,616
Her research has made her
a best-selling author.

60
00:02:37,616 --> 00:02:39,034
{\an8}The Macmillan
Publishing Company

61
00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:42,454
{\an8}couldn't churn the books
out fast enough.

62
00:02:42,454 --> 00:02:44,081
"The Hite Report" gave voice

63
00:02:44,081 --> 00:02:47,751
to people who never had a voice,
to experiences people

64
00:02:47,751 --> 00:02:51,088
never had an opportunity
to even discuss before.

65
00:02:51,088 --> 00:02:53,632
The feelings and knowledge
and experience

66
00:02:53,632 --> 00:02:56,635
of thousands of women
in our time.

67
00:02:56,635 --> 00:02:57,887
Shere Hite has sold more than

68
00:02:57,887 --> 00:02:59,805
20 million books
around the world.

69
00:02:59,805 --> 00:03:02,099
36 countries
and 19 languages.

70
00:03:02,099 --> 00:03:04,143
Some of the best-selling books
of our time.

71
00:03:04,143 --> 00:03:06,687
Shere, you've probably
done more research

72
00:03:06,687 --> 00:03:08,480
in-depth on male sexuality

73
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,024
than anybody else
who ever lived.

74
00:03:10,024 --> 00:03:11,942
There is some
dispute about your methodology.

75
00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:13,736
You were criticized
by some of the reviewers.

76
00:03:13,736 --> 00:03:16,655
What she says
is always controversial.

77
00:03:16,655 --> 00:03:19,074
Do you think that out
of your work

78
00:03:19,074 --> 00:03:21,660
will come another
sexual revolution?

79
00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:23,579
This is going to lead
to real changes

80
00:03:23,579 --> 00:03:26,332
in the definition of sex
between men and women.

81
00:03:26,332 --> 00:03:29,543
Is there
any danger in that?

82
00:03:29,543 --> 00:03:32,630
Equality doesn't seem dangerous
to me.

83
00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:57,756
{\an8}After all, if it's possible
once, it's possible again.

84
00:04:57,756 --> 00:05:01,135
{\an8}What I'm trying to work out
is how.

85
00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:04,179
The most mysterious of organs,
the female vagina,

86
00:05:04,179 --> 00:05:07,850
the vulva, the uterus,
and especially the clitoris.

87
00:05:07,850 --> 00:05:09,935
Names and information
about these organs

88
00:05:09,935 --> 00:05:13,772
were suppressed for long periods
in Western history.

89
00:05:13,772 --> 00:05:15,190
For centuries, it was said

90
00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:17,943
that women have difficulty
having orgasms.

91
00:05:17,943 --> 00:05:19,945
Men's orgasms are
so much stronger,

92
00:05:19,945 --> 00:05:25,075
their sexual organs bigger,
and none of this is true.

93
00:05:25,075 --> 00:05:29,079
The most common means to orgasm
has no name at all.

94
00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:32,041
The fact that there's been
no word for clitoral stimulation

95
00:05:32,041 --> 00:05:35,252
for most of Western history
shows how clearly the culture

96
00:05:35,252 --> 00:05:38,297
has tried to stamp out
knowledge of women's bodies

97
00:05:38,297 --> 00:05:41,467
and to stamp out women's
enjoyment and pleasure.

98
00:05:57,483 --> 00:05:58,692
Speeding.

99
00:05:58,692 --> 00:05:59,693
Okay.
- Close in.

100
00:05:59,693 --> 00:06:01,111
Slate coming in.

101
00:06:01,111 --> 00:06:03,489
- Oh, my God, like the movies.
- Uh-huh.

102
00:06:07,951 --> 00:06:10,245
I live on
Central Park West,

103
00:06:10,245 --> 00:06:11,997
and I had seen her
in the neighborhood

104
00:06:11,997 --> 00:06:15,042
because she lived
right across the street.

105
00:06:16,376 --> 00:06:19,797
This wonderful creature going
along with this gorgeous hair.

106
00:06:19,797 --> 00:06:21,632
This pinky strawberry blonde.

107
00:06:21,632 --> 00:06:26,136
She had a sort of Lucille Ball
thing going with curls up top.

108
00:06:26,136 --> 00:06:29,723
Very graceful,
always dramatically dressed.

109
00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:31,725
And very striking,
very beautiful.

110
00:06:31,725 --> 00:06:36,438
She looked spectacular,
walking down the street.

111
00:06:36,438 --> 00:06:41,110
So, I'd seen her, but I didn't
know who she was or anything.

112
00:06:45,906 --> 00:06:48,075
{\an8}I went to a feminist party.

113
00:06:48,075 --> 00:06:52,871
{\an8}Everybody there was talking
about what she was doing.

114
00:06:52,871 --> 00:06:56,708
Night after night, grinding out
mimeograph questionnaires

115
00:06:56,708 --> 00:06:59,461
{\an8}on sex and sexuality.

116
00:07:11,932 --> 00:07:16,019
I made contact with her,
and I invited her to lunch,

117
00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:20,941
a place I went a lot, and mostly
men in this French restaurant.

118
00:07:20,941 --> 00:07:24,319
And in she came, tall, willowy.

119
00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,446
And after her entrance,
which stunned everyone,

120
00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:30,617
her voice sang out with
"the clitoris" and "the vagina."

121
00:07:30,617 --> 00:07:31,910
I was just like, "Oh, yes.

122
00:07:31,910 --> 00:07:33,245
Oh, really?
How interesting."

123
00:07:33,245 --> 00:07:35,956
And everybody was just
riveted by this.

124
00:07:35,956 --> 00:07:38,750
So, of course, I got excited.

125
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:40,294
I took on the book.

126
00:07:40,294 --> 00:07:42,671
Then I worked with her down
in her apartment,

127
00:07:42,671 --> 00:07:45,340
which is right
across the street.

128
00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,929
{\an8}
This is where I was living

129
00:07:50,929 --> 00:07:54,183
{\an8}in the basement
of the building.

130
00:07:54,183 --> 00:07:57,561
Those were the windows
and door outside my apartment.

131
00:07:57,561 --> 00:08:00,105
But I made it real nice.

132
00:08:00,105 --> 00:08:03,400
{\an8}But inside, it was beautiful.

133
00:08:11,992 --> 00:08:13,660
{\an8}My grandfather was
sending me to college.

134
00:08:13,660 --> 00:08:15,120
{\an8}I have been going
to state schools

135
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,956
{\an8}but now at Columbia,
the tuition was huge.

136
00:08:17,956 --> 00:08:19,374
{\an8}And I borrowed it from
the government loan.

137
00:08:19,374 --> 00:08:23,295
{\an8}But I felt,
how could I ever pay this back?

138
00:08:25,172 --> 00:08:27,674
{\an8}I was, in fact,
one of the only women

139
00:08:27,674 --> 00:08:30,344
{\an8}in that graduate
history program.

140
00:08:33,096 --> 00:08:34,806
{\an8}They thought I would
be a schoolteacher,

141
00:08:34,806 --> 00:08:36,892
but I knew
I was studying history

142
00:08:36,892 --> 00:08:38,977
because I couldn't
understand the present.

143
00:08:41,271 --> 00:08:43,315
Why were there
so many inequalities?

144
00:08:43,315 --> 00:08:46,944
Columbia has consistently
refused to alter these policies.

145
00:08:46,944 --> 00:08:49,947
Why were people
often so uncaring?

146
00:08:51,031 --> 00:08:53,408
Why couldn't everybody
have an equal chance?

147
00:08:53,408 --> 00:08:56,870
Changes that we keep
complaining about and groaning

148
00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:59,414
about are surface changes.

149
00:08:59,414 --> 00:09:01,083
They're merely irritants.

150
00:09:01,083 --> 00:09:03,001
The day I met Jacques Barzun,

151
00:09:03,001 --> 00:09:04,920
I told him
I had come to Columbia

152
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,922
{\an8}because I admired
his program,

153
00:09:06,922 --> 00:09:10,884
{\an8}History of Western Thought,
1789 to Present.

154
00:09:11,843 --> 00:09:13,345
In a timid voice, I said,

155
00:09:13,345 --> 00:09:18,725
"Did you have time to look
at my master's thesis?"

156
00:09:18,725 --> 00:09:20,227
"Well, I did read it.

157
00:09:20,227 --> 00:09:23,272
But honestly, I don't believe
you wrote it.

158
00:09:23,272 --> 00:09:25,023
And besides,
I'm absolutely sure

159
00:09:25,023 --> 00:09:26,441
that you don't have
most of these books

160
00:09:26,441 --> 00:09:30,153
at the University
of Florida library."

161
00:09:34,074 --> 00:09:37,244
That was one of my first
experiences in class prejudice,

162
00:09:37,244 --> 00:09:41,915
in addition to gender prejudice,
overtly expressed.

163
00:09:45,711 --> 00:09:48,380
I had no money, none.

164
00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:51,550
As a student,
I had to earn money on the side.

165
00:09:51,550 --> 00:09:56,680
{\an8}I was advised by people
around me in 1969

166
00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,391
to use my looks
to make a living.

167
00:10:01,310 --> 00:10:04,396
I first met Shere when
I was a studio manager

168
00:10:04,396 --> 00:10:07,607
at a photographer's studio
on Central Park West.

169
00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:12,612
Going through Shere's portfolio,
she had a very unique style,

170
00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:17,451
and I tried to show different
aspects of her personality.

171
00:10:19,870 --> 00:10:22,247
And she liked what I was doing.

172
00:10:22,247 --> 00:10:26,251
After my day at work and after
her pounding the pavement,

173
00:10:26,251 --> 00:10:30,255
Shere would bring
over her unique outfits.

174
00:10:30,255 --> 00:10:35,093
I would have Rolling Stones
on or the Beatles or Bob Dylan.

175
00:10:38,388 --> 00:10:40,140
She would much prefer to have

176
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:43,060
her favorite
Rachmaninoff concerto.

177
00:10:43,060 --> 00:10:44,936
And I didn't mind that.

178
00:10:44,936 --> 00:10:47,606
I listened to it.

179
00:10:47,606 --> 00:10:49,983
Barely. Yeah.

180
00:10:49,983 --> 00:10:51,610
It was fine.

181
00:10:51,610 --> 00:10:53,487
It was Shere.

182
00:10:58,492 --> 00:11:00,077
Having to support myself,

183
00:11:00,077 --> 00:11:02,120
what were my alternatives?

184
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,122
To become an out-and-out
prostitute?

185
00:11:04,122 --> 00:11:07,376
{\an8}To be a secretary?
To get married?

186
00:11:07,376 --> 00:11:11,046
{\an8}Of all forms of prostitution,
any job within the system is,

187
00:11:11,046 --> 00:11:12,672
{\an8}I preferred this.

188
00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:15,342
Modeling allowed me
the most independence of all

189
00:11:15,342 --> 00:11:19,346
with perhaps the least
personal involvement.

190
00:11:27,437 --> 00:11:29,564
Was she the model
for both women?

191
00:11:29,564 --> 00:11:33,360
Yeah, that's Shere
and this is Shere.

192
00:11:35,612 --> 00:11:37,197
{\an8}I had the Rolleiflex,

193
00:11:37,197 --> 00:11:40,492
{\an8}the finest camera you can own,
black and white Rollei.

194
00:11:40,492 --> 00:11:43,912
And it has an automatic shutter
release on it.

195
00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:45,497
And you set the time.

196
00:11:45,497 --> 00:11:48,041
She would move from one side
of me to the other,

197
00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:51,378
and I'd just stand there
with a gun.

198
00:11:55,090 --> 00:11:58,552
She made my career,
I think, virtually.

199
00:11:59,219 --> 00:12:00,971
She did this work
with illustrators

200
00:12:00,971 --> 00:12:05,559
because she couldn't get enough
work as a high fashion model.

201
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,019
Paperback book covers
and illustration

202
00:12:08,019 --> 00:12:09,729
was not held
in any esteem at all.

203
00:12:09,729 --> 00:12:12,941
They were frowned on.
It was low-grade art.

204
00:12:14,025 --> 00:12:16,445
And that's what I was doing.

205
00:12:18,321 --> 00:12:21,908
The two of us worked together
on all those covers.

206
00:12:21,908 --> 00:12:24,119
We were a team.

207
00:12:28,623 --> 00:12:30,459
I could earn a living.

208
00:12:30,459 --> 00:12:34,212
The work was self-defined,
and even sometimes artistic.

209
00:12:34,212 --> 00:12:36,214
Every day I wondered
how long it would be

210
00:12:36,214 --> 00:12:39,301
until I could be of some
real use in the world.

211
00:12:39,301 --> 00:12:41,386
Even though you were
with an agency,

212
00:12:41,386 --> 00:12:43,180
you could never tell
how much money

213
00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:45,223
you would have coming
in next month or next week.

214
00:12:45,223 --> 00:12:47,809
And every day I had
to search for jobs.

215
00:12:47,809 --> 00:12:50,896
Shere was always broke,
couldn't pay the rent,

216
00:12:50,896 --> 00:12:52,272
didn't have food.

217
00:12:52,272 --> 00:12:54,024
She had this tiny
little apartment.

218
00:12:54,024 --> 00:12:57,027
And when we go in
and she'd turn the lights on,

219
00:12:57,027 --> 00:12:59,905
the roaches were scattering.

220
00:12:59,905 --> 00:13:02,699
Exhibit A.
There were rats in the building.

221
00:13:02,699 --> 00:13:04,534
The other tenants and I were
in a struggle with...

222
00:13:04,534 --> 00:13:06,161
{\an8}
The owner of the building,

223
00:13:06,161 --> 00:13:08,872
{\an8}he would turn off the heat
in the winter.

224
00:13:08,872 --> 00:13:13,210
She was on a survival
situation in that apartment.

225
00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:15,253
It was really bad.

226
00:13:16,546 --> 00:13:19,799
It was very rough,
but she made the most of it.

227
00:13:24,095 --> 00:13:25,514
The nice thing about it,

228
00:13:25,514 --> 00:13:29,351
it had access to its own
little tiny backyard.

229
00:13:30,393 --> 00:13:32,020
She had a little dog, Rusty,

230
00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:35,190
and he would like
to be outdoors.

231
00:13:36,775 --> 00:13:40,612
I was crazy about her,
and we dated a bit.

232
00:13:40,612 --> 00:13:43,698
We were both young,
Midwesterners, new to New York,

233
00:13:43,698 --> 00:13:47,494
and we sort of liked being
a little bit different.

234
00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:55,919
We'd go to old films together,
downtown, films from the '30s

235
00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:57,003
and the '40s.

236
00:13:58,755 --> 00:14:00,757
We'd set up
pictures like that.

237
00:14:00,757 --> 00:14:03,510
Shere found
this Greta Garbo hat.

238
00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:07,389
Silly pictures.
They weren't job related.

239
00:14:07,389 --> 00:14:12,727
But her real interest was
more intellectually advanced.

240
00:14:12,727 --> 00:14:15,063
In graduate school,
I was a specialist

241
00:14:15,063 --> 00:14:16,398
in the French Revolution,

242
00:14:16,398 --> 00:14:19,568
{\an8}classical music
and Balkan farming.

243
00:14:21,278 --> 00:14:24,114
Despite this, I had
an inclination

244
00:14:24,114 --> 00:14:25,490
to take the historical facts

245
00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:28,493
as presented with
a grain of salt.

246
00:14:28,493 --> 00:14:33,331
It was really hard to be
in graduate school at that time.

247
00:14:33,331 --> 00:14:35,625
{\an8}It was perfectly
acceptable to write

248
00:14:35,625 --> 00:14:41,881
{\an8}dissertation number 3,483
on Shakespeare's Hamlet,

249
00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:45,719
but if you wanted to write
about sex or sexology,

250
00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:49,639
you would just
make them totally crazy.

251
00:14:49,639 --> 00:14:54,436
They told me to transfer to
the Women's Studies Department.

252
00:14:54,436 --> 00:14:57,606
There was no
Women's Studies Department.

253
00:14:57,606 --> 00:15:00,191
They were trying
to get rid of us,

254
00:15:00,191 --> 00:15:04,863
and Shere was facing
the same thing.

255
00:15:06,698 --> 00:15:10,410
I remember Shere as being
a bit shy.

256
00:15:10,410 --> 00:15:13,288
She told me
that she was bisexual.

257
00:15:13,288 --> 00:15:16,249
To make a statement like that,
as she did,

258
00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:20,211
was extremely unpopular
at that time.

259
00:15:20,211 --> 00:15:24,341
I met Shere at
the Gay Academic Union.

260
00:15:24,341 --> 00:15:26,801
We often met
on the Upper West Side,

261
00:15:26,801 --> 00:15:30,555
a group of graduate students,
college professors,

262
00:15:30,555 --> 00:15:34,267
and independent scholars
whose work was being

263
00:15:34,267 --> 00:15:38,563
dismissed,
ridiculed, diminished.

264
00:15:38,563 --> 00:15:41,316
People came with their research

265
00:15:41,316 --> 00:15:44,819
about artists' colonies
for lesbians in Paris,

266
00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:50,659
for example, gay men who had
encircled Virginia Woolf,

267
00:15:50,659 --> 00:15:53,411
women who were painting women.

268
00:15:53,411 --> 00:15:55,080
We couldn't believe it.

269
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,876
These things had been
firmly suppressed for decades.

270
00:16:00,919 --> 00:16:02,796
And we talked to each other

271
00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:08,134
about our common experience
in academia.

272
00:16:08,468 --> 00:16:10,011
Columbia was
a major dose of failure.

273
00:16:10,011 --> 00:16:14,474
Females don't belong.
I took a leave of absence.

274
00:16:14,683 --> 00:16:18,186
Also eating me up was the
passivity required of females,

275
00:16:18,186 --> 00:16:21,106
which made me very hostile.

276
00:16:21,106 --> 00:16:22,649
What do I do?

277
00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:25,902
I spend my days one by one
as a fashion model.

278
00:16:25,902 --> 00:16:30,699
Caught in such a horrible trap,
it's just incredible.

279
00:16:32,826 --> 00:16:35,995
False eyelashes were necessary
for modeling.

280
00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:38,998
Standing in front of the small
bathroom mirror every morning,

281
00:16:38,998 --> 00:16:43,211
putting them on, thinking,
"You're wasting your life.

282
00:16:43,211 --> 00:16:45,255
You're wasting your life."

283
00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:46,631
She once told me,

284
00:16:46,631 --> 00:16:48,800
"Trying to maintain beauty
the way I do..."

285
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,513
She says, "It's such a hard job,
just to work constantly."

286
00:16:53,513 --> 00:16:58,643
And she just seemed to be
at that point of giving up.

287
00:16:58,643 --> 00:17:01,104
{\an8}Modeling is bad
because it reinforces

288
00:17:01,104 --> 00:17:02,397
{\an8}all the stereotyped roles

289
00:17:02,397 --> 00:17:04,774
{\an8}already so damaging
in our society.

290
00:17:04,774 --> 00:17:09,946
{\an8}Wife, mother, sweetheart,
sexpot, loud-mouthed bitch.

291
00:17:12,532 --> 00:17:15,410
{\an8}Formula-- take an organism
with psyche

292
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,662
and drain it of all
but those characteristics,

293
00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:20,832
and you have left
a packaged chicken.

294
00:17:20,832 --> 00:17:23,626
Dehaired, ready to be
bought after being felt

295
00:17:23,626 --> 00:17:27,672
and squeezed to find
the juiciest specimen.

296
00:17:27,672 --> 00:17:32,927
We'll have order and submission,
nothing alive to frighten us.

297
00:17:32,927 --> 00:17:36,473
We only want a pleasure machine,
a piece of wet raw meat

298
00:17:36,473 --> 00:17:39,684
{\an8}to wrap around our cocks
and feel comforted by.

299
00:17:39,684 --> 00:17:41,352
{\an8}I can't stand it anymore.

300
00:17:41,352 --> 00:17:43,146
{\an8}I don't know what to do.

301
00:17:43,146 --> 00:17:47,525
{\an8}Now I'm crying again, and my
eyes will burn again tomorrow.

302
00:18:00,747 --> 00:18:03,333
Around that time, I did some
photos with my friend,

303
00:18:03,333 --> 00:18:06,711
the photographer Michael Wilson.

304
00:18:06,711 --> 00:18:11,299
And I consider this one
a sort of self-portrait,

305
00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:14,761
confronting myself.

306
00:18:14,761 --> 00:18:18,890
It's just as simple as know
yourself, not your role.

307
00:18:18,890 --> 00:18:21,351
It's hellishly hard.

308
00:18:24,062 --> 00:18:26,564
Who is the Olivetti girl?

309
00:18:26,564 --> 00:18:28,775
The Olivetti girl
is the best secretary

310
00:18:28,775 --> 00:18:30,235
in the office.

311
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:31,861
Would you believe
the men in this office

312
00:18:31,861 --> 00:18:34,197
never noticed me
until I became an Olivetti girl?

313
00:18:34,197 --> 00:18:36,991
What does the Olivetti girl
have that I don't have?

314
00:18:36,991 --> 00:18:38,952
The right equipment.

315
00:18:40,453 --> 00:18:43,122
I did a commercial
for a typewriter company.

316
00:18:44,707 --> 00:18:46,209
And they sat me down
in front of the typewriter,

317
00:18:46,209 --> 00:18:47,794
and I started typing
and he says,

318
00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:49,379
"No, look at the camera
and flirt with the camera."

319
00:18:49,379 --> 00:18:51,631
Now that I type sharper,
I look sharper.

320
00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:53,466
I said, "Well, yeah. But why?"

321
00:18:53,466 --> 00:18:56,052
And they said, "Well, because
the caption is going to say...

322
00:18:56,052 --> 00:18:57,762
The typewriter
with a brain inside.

323
00:18:57,762 --> 00:18:59,264
"...the typewriter
that's so smart

324
00:18:59,264 --> 00:19:01,099
that she doesn't have to be."

325
00:19:01,099 --> 00:19:02,559
Right?

326
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:05,019
I felt fairly odd about that.

327
00:19:05,019 --> 00:19:08,648
{\an8}Then I read in the newspaper
how there was some women's group

328
00:19:08,648 --> 00:19:10,775
{\an8}or something picketing in front
of the headquarters

329
00:19:10,775 --> 00:19:13,361
{\an8}of this corporation
on Park Avenue.

330
00:19:17,991 --> 00:19:20,535
{\an8}And I thought,
"Oh, it sounds interesting.

331
00:19:20,535 --> 00:19:21,995
{\an8}Should I go? Or shouldn't I?

332
00:19:21,995 --> 00:19:23,496
{\an8}Finally, I went.

333
00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:27,876
{\an8}I was treasurer of

334
00:19:27,876 --> 00:19:30,795
{\an8}the National Organization
for Women in New York.

335
00:19:30,795 --> 00:19:33,798
{\an8}The group that I was
very active in was

336
00:19:33,798 --> 00:19:36,718
the Image of Women Committee.

337
00:19:36,718 --> 00:19:38,928
I was at a NOW meeting.

338
00:19:38,928 --> 00:19:41,598
She just came in and sat
next to me.

339
00:19:41,598 --> 00:19:43,182
{\an8}I didn't tell anyone
at first

340
00:19:43,182 --> 00:19:46,936
{\an8}that I was in one of the ads
they were picketing,

341
00:19:46,936 --> 00:19:49,939
{\an8}listening to the animated
discussion I gained confidence,

342
00:19:49,939 --> 00:19:53,776
{\an8}and finally whispered to Joyce,
whom I had just met.

343
00:19:53,776 --> 00:19:55,778
She burst out,
"Listen, everybody,

344
00:19:55,778 --> 00:19:57,780
you'll never guess who's here."

345
00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:59,866
Everyone turned to stare.

346
00:19:59,866 --> 00:20:03,620
They said, "You see,
even the women in the ads

347
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:05,371
don't like them."

348
00:20:05,371 --> 00:20:09,542
And off they rushed into new
areas discussing this point.

349
00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:11,961
I loved it.

350
00:20:17,842 --> 00:20:20,929
And I got very involved
in that women's group.

351
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,434
{\an8}And I made friends
that I've still got today.

352
00:20:30,021 --> 00:20:33,691
♪ When I'm walking down
the street ♪

353
00:20:33,691 --> 00:20:36,152
♪ And every guy I meet ♪

354
00:20:36,152 --> 00:20:41,032
{\an8}♪ Says, "Baby, ain't you sweet,"
I just could scream ♪

355
00:20:41,032 --> 00:20:43,868
♪ Though I know
the guys are sick ♪

356
00:20:43,868 --> 00:20:45,912
♪ And think only
of their prick ♪

357
00:20:45,912 --> 00:20:50,708
♪ And I'm tired of fuckers
fucking over me ♪

358
00:20:52,168 --> 00:20:54,921
Okay. We're tired of fuckers
fucking over us.

359
00:20:54,921 --> 00:20:56,214
Right?

360
00:20:56,214 --> 00:20:57,674
Yeah.

361
00:20:57,674 --> 00:20:59,258
Let's do it for the time.

362
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:03,054
Don't forget that you've
the time to fall, all right?

363
00:21:03,054 --> 00:21:07,100
{\an8}♪ Hail! Hail!
The dykes are here! ♪

364
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:10,061
{\an8}♪ What the hell
do we care now? ♪

365
00:21:15,066 --> 00:21:17,360
It was new for me
to find a place

366
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,612
where I fit in so well.

367
00:21:19,612 --> 00:21:21,197
The movement's
intellectual debates

368
00:21:21,197 --> 00:21:24,826
made Columbia University's
look pale and anemic.

369
00:21:26,577 --> 00:21:30,748
Brilliant ideas were
a daily occurrence.

370
00:21:30,748 --> 00:21:33,876
{\an8}We wanted to
take on male institutions

371
00:21:33,876 --> 00:21:38,047
{\an8}and see whether we could
make a cultural change.

372
00:21:38,047 --> 00:21:40,717
We chose
the Natural History Museum.

373
00:21:40,717 --> 00:21:45,179
We called it
the Museum of Unnatural History.

374
00:21:45,179 --> 00:21:49,642
In the displays,
there were men hunting,

375
00:21:49,642 --> 00:21:52,770
fishing, building homes.

376
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:58,234
Every woman in every continent
of the world had a pot.

377
00:21:58,234 --> 00:22:01,904
Every woman had a baby
strapped to the front,

378
00:22:01,904 --> 00:22:05,950
to the back,
in a little basket like Moses.

379
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:10,121
Not just women, but how
indigenous people

380
00:22:10,121 --> 00:22:13,666
around the world
were being portrayed.

381
00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:20,214
I began to feel
a space in which I could be me,

382
00:22:20,214 --> 00:22:23,509
an atmosphere
that would not harm me.

383
00:22:23,509 --> 00:22:28,139
{\an8}Like a light suddenly
switched on in a dark room.

384
00:22:30,308 --> 00:22:33,436
We formed consciousness
raising groups.

385
00:22:33,436 --> 00:22:38,149
The idea was to just
listen to women's voices.

386
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:42,320
Cannot make these
decisions about your own body.

387
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,239
This is one thing we obviously
wanted, that women should have,

388
00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:47,241
should be able to have
abortions on demand.

389
00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:50,828
They should be, if not free,
they should be very low cost,

390
00:22:50,828 --> 00:22:52,163
so that there's no
discrimination

391
00:22:52,163 --> 00:22:54,165
on economic grounds.

392
00:22:54,165 --> 00:22:57,001
I was at the confluence
of three movements.

393
00:22:57,001 --> 00:22:59,962
One was the second stage
of the women's movement.

394
00:22:59,962 --> 00:23:02,090
{\an8}The second one was
the burgeoning

395
00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:04,759
{\an8}of the cognitive behavior
therapy movement,

396
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:06,385
and the sex revolution.

397
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:09,847
So, I was really in the right
place at the right time.

398
00:23:09,847 --> 00:23:12,517
And very lucky to be there.

399
00:23:12,517 --> 00:23:20,024
♪ This is the dawning
of the age of asparagus ♪

400
00:23:20,024 --> 00:23:23,402
♪ Age of asparagus ♪

401
00:23:23,402 --> 00:23:25,863
Good girl.

402
00:23:25,863 --> 00:23:27,657
I'm a clinical psychologist,

403
00:23:27,657 --> 00:23:30,785
and my specialty
is human sexuality

404
00:23:30,785 --> 00:23:32,995
and working with couples.

405
00:23:32,995 --> 00:23:35,456
I had a strong personal
interest in sex.

406
00:23:35,456 --> 00:23:39,043
In the early '60s,
when I first moved to New York

407
00:23:39,043 --> 00:23:44,173
and was making $75 a week
as a research assistant...

408
00:23:45,591 --> 00:23:48,427
...I discovered one evening when
I was walking around

409
00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:53,266
Fifth Avenue that men would
keep approaching me.

410
00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:56,894
Finally, it did occur to me when
one of them actually spoke up

411
00:23:56,894 --> 00:23:58,688
that he wanted to have sex.

412
00:23:58,688 --> 00:24:00,898
So, I thought, "What the hell?"

413
00:24:00,898 --> 00:24:03,484
So I started supplementing
my income

414
00:24:03,484 --> 00:24:07,280
by getting together with men
and having sex with them.

415
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,699
And some of them I actually
remained friendly with

416
00:24:09,699 --> 00:24:11,033
for years.

417
00:24:11,033 --> 00:24:13,244
It was an interesting
group of people.

418
00:24:13,244 --> 00:24:17,206
I also finished my undergraduate
degree at Columbia.

419
00:24:17,206 --> 00:24:21,127
So I had a personal and
professional interest in sex.

420
00:24:21,127 --> 00:24:25,006
And then right around
that same time, I met Shere.

421
00:24:25,006 --> 00:24:28,176
I think we were both very
committed to helping women,

422
00:24:28,176 --> 00:24:30,761
especially after
my internship experience

423
00:24:30,761 --> 00:24:32,763
where I was the only female
on the ward

424
00:24:32,763 --> 00:24:34,307
and couldn't have cases
of my own.

425
00:24:34,307 --> 00:24:37,518
And the chief psychiatrist
would often comment

426
00:24:37,518 --> 00:24:39,729
on my skirt length.

427
00:24:42,648 --> 00:24:46,152
And my first sexual relationship
with a man ended in disaster.

428
00:24:46,152 --> 00:24:48,988
I got pregnant, and I didn't
have another relationship

429
00:24:48,988 --> 00:24:50,448
with a man for a long time.

430
00:24:50,448 --> 00:24:53,284
And I also became terrified
of sexuality.

431
00:24:53,284 --> 00:24:56,954
You know, like, to know
or to try to know

432
00:24:56,954 --> 00:24:58,581
where I am, you know,

433
00:24:58,581 --> 00:25:03,127
and to be aware of how I feel,
not to just plunge.

434
00:25:03,127 --> 00:25:07,048
I don't like anybody who just
likes to plunge in

435
00:25:07,048 --> 00:25:09,091
and decide what is,
this a man, you know.

436
00:25:09,091 --> 00:25:10,885
All right, here, here we go,
rap, rap,

437
00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:12,470
and it's over,
because that's not it.

438
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:18,226
Sex is making love,
actually, not just fucking.

439
00:25:18,226 --> 00:25:21,145
At that point, I started
doing assertiveness training

440
00:25:21,145 --> 00:25:24,148
for women
and sex education workshops.

441
00:25:24,148 --> 00:25:28,277
How long women have to go
along with their bodies

442
00:25:28,277 --> 00:25:32,198
being this dark, mysterious,
kind of painful thing

443
00:25:32,198 --> 00:25:34,283
that they know nothing about?

444
00:25:34,283 --> 00:25:36,535
We gave women
the homework of going home

445
00:25:36,535 --> 00:25:39,956
and looking in the mirror
and examining their genitals,

446
00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:42,291
which many of them
had never done.

447
00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:46,170
And even more of them
had never seen the clitoris.

448
00:25:46,170 --> 00:25:47,922
The women's group
I was involved

449
00:25:47,922 --> 00:25:51,342
in got into a debate
about Masters and Johnson.

450
00:25:51,342 --> 00:25:53,177
In their first book,
they had said

451
00:25:53,177 --> 00:25:56,013
that women's orgasms needed
clitoral stimulation.

452
00:25:56,013 --> 00:25:57,723
But in the second book
they said,

453
00:25:57,723 --> 00:26:00,142
"Yes, but, even
though that's true,

454
00:26:00,142 --> 00:26:02,645
you should get indirect
clitoral stimulation

455
00:26:02,645 --> 00:26:04,355
through simple intercourse."

456
00:26:04,355 --> 00:26:06,857
So, I thought, "Well, maybe
we'll have a conference,

457
00:26:06,857 --> 00:26:09,694
we can debate this topic."

458
00:26:09,694 --> 00:26:11,487
But then all my friends said,

459
00:26:11,487 --> 00:26:13,781
"Yeah, well, who's gonna be the
first one to stand up and say,

460
00:26:13,781 --> 00:26:15,199
'Yeah, how I orgasm is...'"

461
00:26:15,199 --> 00:26:17,326
I mean, nobody was going
to do this, right?

462
00:26:17,326 --> 00:26:19,578
Shere would go to these
self-awareness meetings

463
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:25,334
and she started a conversation
about masturbation.

464
00:26:29,964 --> 00:26:32,341
She would ask everybody
in the audience,

465
00:26:32,341 --> 00:26:36,304
"Do you masturbate?"
You know, "Raise your hands."

466
00:26:36,304 --> 00:26:41,142
And most people are very shy
and did not do that.

467
00:26:41,142 --> 00:26:43,102
So she came up with this idea

468
00:26:43,102 --> 00:26:47,231
of making an anonymous
questionnaire.

469
00:26:47,231 --> 00:26:49,150
I made up a questionnaire.

470
00:26:51,277 --> 00:26:55,531
{\an8}I wanted women to send them
back to me anonymously.

471
00:26:59,493 --> 00:27:01,412
And since I had been
in graduate school,

472
00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:04,248
I sort of had an idea,
you know, how to do that.

473
00:27:04,248 --> 00:27:06,917
I started passing
it out around town.

474
00:27:08,294 --> 00:27:10,671
I was one of the helpers.

475
00:27:10,671 --> 00:27:12,631
I had the motorcycle.

476
00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:15,593
Shere would have a big
cardboard box of surveys,

477
00:27:15,593 --> 00:27:18,095
and we'd strap it on
with bungee cords

478
00:27:18,095 --> 00:27:19,472
on the back of the motorcycle.

479
00:27:19,472 --> 00:27:22,641
She'd put on her helmet
and hop on.

480
00:27:24,185 --> 00:27:26,270
Zoom across town to some place

481
00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:29,523
that was going to
distribute the surveys.

482
00:27:29,523 --> 00:27:34,362
Not just uptown or downtown,
all over the place.

483
00:27:34,362 --> 00:27:40,159
Up in the Bronx, Williamsburg,
Brooklyn, Chinatown.

484
00:27:41,494 --> 00:27:43,621
Then I began
distributing questionnaires

485
00:27:43,621 --> 00:27:45,623
to women all over the country,

486
00:27:45,623 --> 00:27:48,209
to women's groups,
to church groups,

487
00:27:48,209 --> 00:27:50,127
to all kinds of groups.

488
00:27:50,127 --> 00:27:53,255
I sent out questionnaires
in batches.

489
00:27:53,255 --> 00:27:56,592
I advertised the questionnaires
in magazines.

490
00:28:04,517 --> 00:28:08,896
{\an8}I was the editor
of a magazine called <i>Sexology.</i>

491
00:28:08,896 --> 00:28:10,940
It was a digest-size magazine

492
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:12,858
that was meant to bring
sex education

493
00:28:12,858 --> 00:28:15,111
to the general population.

494
00:28:15,111 --> 00:28:17,321
And I received a letter one day,

495
00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:19,698
and it just sort of
attracted my attention.

496
00:28:19,698 --> 00:28:21,534
Most letters that I would get
would be typewritten,

497
00:28:21,534 --> 00:28:26,080
but this one came with
a kind of a red bold

498
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,250
handwriting, very, very fluid.

499
00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:31,252
{\an8}"Dear Mr. Sage,

500
00:28:31,252 --> 00:28:33,337
{\an8}I've been distributing
the enclosed questionnaire

501
00:28:33,337 --> 00:28:35,172
{\an8}to women all over the country.

502
00:28:35,172 --> 00:28:37,800
{\an8}Would very much enjoy
contributing to your magazine.

503
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,302
{\an8}Sincerely, Shere Hite."

504
00:28:40,302 --> 00:28:43,931
The handwriting was alluring,
and so I was curious.

505
00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:48,686
We arranged to have lunch,
and this woman walks in

506
00:28:48,686 --> 00:28:54,024
kind of mix matched clothing
and an electric hairdo.

507
00:28:55,443 --> 00:28:57,695
We talked, and she explained
what she was doing.

508
00:28:57,695 --> 00:28:59,697
There was a kind of warmth
that was beginning

509
00:28:59,697 --> 00:29:01,323
to build up between us.

510
00:29:01,323 --> 00:29:03,826
You know, I didn't really know
how to deal with it

511
00:29:03,826 --> 00:29:06,370
since I was married at the time.

512
00:29:06,370 --> 00:29:08,038
I had to call my office
and explain

513
00:29:08,038 --> 00:29:10,374
that I'd be back
from lunch a little bit late.

514
00:29:10,374 --> 00:29:12,877
And, all of a sudden, somebody
crawled into the phone booth

515
00:29:12,877 --> 00:29:14,503
next to me, and it was her.

516
00:29:14,503 --> 00:29:16,464
She was gonna make a call
after I did.

517
00:29:16,464 --> 00:29:19,091
But normally people wait
until you exit the phone booth.

518
00:29:19,091 --> 00:29:25,681
It was kind of an intense
meeting of bodies.

519
00:29:25,681 --> 00:29:27,016
I went back to the office.

520
00:29:27,016 --> 00:29:29,518
Shere had already called
three times.

521
00:29:29,518 --> 00:29:33,731
I said, "This is going
to be a problem for you."

522
00:29:33,731 --> 00:29:38,402
We struck up a relationship,
and it went from there.

523
00:29:38,402 --> 00:29:40,404
She was always working,
and if she wasn't working,

524
00:29:40,404 --> 00:29:44,575
she was sleeping, and if she
wasn't sleeping, she was eating.

525
00:29:44,575 --> 00:29:48,496
One night, I went with her
to the printing press.

526
00:29:51,081 --> 00:29:52,458
{\an8}They printed anti-war leaflets

527
00:29:52,458 --> 00:29:54,585
{\an8}and all sorts of stuff
during the day,

528
00:29:54,585 --> 00:29:58,422
{\an8}and at night, they would allow
her to use the printing press.

529
00:29:58,422 --> 00:30:00,883
{\an8}I learned to run
a printing press myself.

530
00:30:00,883 --> 00:30:04,553
I had to pay for ink
and electricity and bring paper.

531
00:30:04,553 --> 00:30:07,431
They taught her how to
type up a mimeograph sheet

532
00:30:07,431 --> 00:30:11,435
that she'd put on the roller
and get it all going.

533
00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:15,564
Thousands of copies
by hand, herself.

534
00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:20,569
She would choose
the inks and mix them,

535
00:30:20,569 --> 00:30:24,198
the same color of her
nail polish at the time.

536
00:30:24,198 --> 00:30:27,451
Her hands would be stained
with ink.

537
00:30:27,451 --> 00:30:29,787
I put designs,
I used colored ink.

538
00:30:29,787 --> 00:30:34,124
I wanted people to feel this
was something very personal,

539
00:30:34,124 --> 00:30:35,960
{\an8}that they were
writing their diary,

540
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,714
{\an8}or just talking to themselves
in their most private moment.

541
00:30:41,257 --> 00:30:43,467
This is free.

542
00:30:44,343 --> 00:30:46,720
You can say whatever you want.

543
00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:11,537
It's not a multiple choice
questionnaire either,

544
00:31:11,537 --> 00:31:15,666
because we felt that, who would
know the categories of answers?

545
00:31:15,666 --> 00:31:19,670
So, we're asking
open ended questions.

546
00:31:19,670 --> 00:31:22,256
Would you like me to read
some of them?

547
00:31:22,256 --> 00:31:25,175
Okay, well,
it starts out mildly.

548
00:31:25,175 --> 00:31:27,303
Is one orgasm
sexually satisfying?

549
00:31:27,303 --> 00:31:29,555
If not, how many?

550
00:31:29,555 --> 00:31:31,098
How do your thoughts
and emotions

551
00:31:31,098 --> 00:31:34,893
affect your desire
for orgasms?

552
00:31:34,893 --> 00:31:37,396
If I read them all,
it will take all the time.

553
00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:39,356
- Well, there's...
- And then it, just a minute,

554
00:31:39,356 --> 00:31:41,692
and then it asks a lot
of questions about masturbation.

555
00:31:41,692 --> 00:31:43,527
What do you think
is the importance?

556
00:31:43,527 --> 00:31:45,446
Do you enjoy it?
And how do you do it?

557
00:31:45,446 --> 00:31:46,947
And that's really important,

558
00:31:46,947 --> 00:31:50,034
because that's when women
have most orgasms.

559
00:31:50,034 --> 00:31:53,454
So, how that's done, you know,
should be something

560
00:31:53,454 --> 00:31:57,374
that begins to be incorporated
into a lot of love making.

561
00:31:57,374 --> 00:32:00,794
And it's fascinating.
We have 2,000 answers back now.

562
00:32:00,794 --> 00:32:04,548
That's what all these things
are here.

563
00:32:04,548 --> 00:32:06,550
It's really wonderful every day
to get the mail.

564
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:09,970
You know, you open it up,
you get these fantastic things.

565
00:32:12,973 --> 00:32:14,642
I am 21 years old,

566
00:32:14,642 --> 00:32:17,478
of Hawaiian
and Chinese ancestry.

567
00:32:17,478 --> 00:32:19,396
I have been married
for two years.

568
00:32:19,396 --> 00:32:21,190
We're lower-middle class.

569
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:23,942
My husband, a college student,
and I, an unemployed secretary.

570
00:32:23,942 --> 00:32:27,237
I'm 23, Jewish,
raised mostly in New York.

571
00:32:27,237 --> 00:32:30,741
39 years old, Black,
physical education teacher.

572
00:32:30,741 --> 00:32:33,911
Age 47,
brought up strict Methodist.

573
00:32:33,911 --> 00:32:35,537
32, college dropout.

574
00:32:35,537 --> 00:32:37,706
I was 75
this September,

575
00:32:37,706 --> 00:32:40,417
living alone,
and I don't miss anything.

576
00:32:40,417 --> 00:32:42,252
I can always tell
if my partner

577
00:32:42,252 --> 00:32:44,880
{\an8}really wants me for me
or me for my body.

578
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,883
{\an8}For years I never
told my real needs to a man.

579
00:32:47,883 --> 00:32:50,594
{\an8}To a woman, I can say
how I want to feel.

580
00:32:50,594 --> 00:32:52,096
{\an8}I never even
told my mother

581
00:32:52,096 --> 00:32:53,555
{\an8}when I started menstruating.

582
00:32:53,555 --> 00:32:55,307
{\an8}And I went on birth control
on my own

583
00:32:55,307 --> 00:32:56,642
{\an8}through Planned Parenthood.

584
00:32:56,642 --> 00:32:58,936
{\an8}I'd like to thank them
right here.

585
00:32:58,936 --> 00:33:00,562
{\an8}I don't fall in love.

586
00:33:00,562 --> 00:33:04,441
{\an8}I find it hard to trust,
to be open with men.

587
00:33:04,441 --> 00:33:06,360
{\an8}I would like
to act freely

588
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,279
{\an8}and happily on
my impulses and desires.

589
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:10,698
{\an8}For many years,

590
00:33:10,698 --> 00:33:13,200
{\an8}I thought I was different
to other women.

591
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,994
{\an8}It has caused me
a great deal of worry.

592
00:33:17,579 --> 00:33:19,623
{\an8}I am now,
at this moment,

593
00:33:19,623 --> 00:33:21,709
{\an8}on a freighter in the North Sea

594
00:33:21,709 --> 00:33:25,295
{\an8}where I have been a cook
for 10 weeks.

595
00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:26,839
{\an8}It is a drizzly night.

596
00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:31,760
{\an8}We're stuck on a sandbar
in rough water and fog.

597
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,596
I have never written
about sex before.

598
00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:38,308
And, as I enjoy writing
and I enjoy sex,

599
00:33:38,308 --> 00:33:41,937
it could be
an intriguing exercise.

600
00:33:41,937 --> 00:33:46,483
Previously, I thought little of
the women's lib and its issues.

601
00:33:46,483 --> 00:33:49,778
But I have not yet in my life
experienced a heavier,

602
00:33:49,778 --> 00:33:52,823
more concentrated dose
of male chauvinism

603
00:33:52,823 --> 00:33:54,908
than provided by being
the only woman

604
00:33:54,908 --> 00:34:00,289
on a freighter among young men
who I am unwilling to fuck.

605
00:34:03,417 --> 00:34:06,795
{\an8}I'm a little provoked
with men at sea.

606
00:34:13,969 --> 00:34:15,387
I didn't know their names,

607
00:34:15,387 --> 00:34:17,264
but I knew where they were from.

608
00:34:17,264 --> 00:34:19,683
I knew their age.

609
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:24,021
I never had heard in detail
how women felt about

610
00:34:24,021 --> 00:34:28,358
all kinds of things having to do
with our private lives.

611
00:34:28,358 --> 00:34:30,944
And I thought
they were very important.

612
00:34:33,113 --> 00:34:36,033
I thought, "Every
woman's gonna want to read this,

613
00:34:36,033 --> 00:34:38,035
you know, and men should, too."

614
00:34:38,035 --> 00:34:41,538
{\an8}Masters and Johnson had
just come out with a study,

615
00:34:41,538 --> 00:34:43,332
{\an8}and there was
the Kinsey report.

616
00:34:43,332 --> 00:34:47,461
My husband said, "Well, there's
only one title this could be.

617
00:34:47,461 --> 00:34:49,671
"The Hite Report."

618
00:34:51,048 --> 00:34:53,550
I have a geographical
distribution, at this point.

619
00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:56,553
It turned out to cover
the whole country very well.

620
00:34:56,553 --> 00:34:59,848
And I'm doing
the statistics now.

621
00:34:59,848 --> 00:35:04,728
She would give me these
oversized sheets of graph paper

622
00:35:04,728 --> 00:35:08,607
that had columns-- orgasm,
masturbation, intercourse,

623
00:35:08,607 --> 00:35:12,861
clitoral stimulation,
other, and notes.

624
00:35:12,861 --> 00:35:16,990
{\an8}I grew up in a family where sex
was treated very clinically.

625
00:35:16,990 --> 00:35:19,493
It's like something you pick up
with a tweezers

626
00:35:19,493 --> 00:35:21,036
and put over here.

627
00:35:21,036 --> 00:35:25,541
It was just not something
that would ever be fun.

628
00:35:25,541 --> 00:35:29,753
I was 18, and a sophomore
at Barnard College.

629
00:35:29,753 --> 00:35:32,297
I went by myself to this
NOW conference

630
00:35:32,297 --> 00:35:34,550
just out of sheer curiosity.

631
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,594
And I saw this stunning woman
behind a table

632
00:35:37,594 --> 00:35:41,640
that was laden high
with these very interesting,

633
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,894
daring, kind of
forbidden questionnaires.

634
00:35:45,894 --> 00:35:48,605
And I said, "Can I work for you?
I'll work for you for nothing."

635
00:35:48,605 --> 00:35:50,524
And she said,
"I have to pay you.

636
00:35:50,524 --> 00:35:52,150
I just can't pay you
very much."

637
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:53,569
And it was that fast.

638
00:35:53,569 --> 00:35:56,113
You know, we just clicked.

639
00:35:58,115 --> 00:36:01,785
I would sit out in the hallway
outside her apartment,

640
00:36:01,785 --> 00:36:06,707
and smoke like a fiend,
with a stack of questionnaires.

641
00:36:07,541 --> 00:36:08,625
Do you have orgasms?

642
00:36:08,625 --> 00:36:10,127
- Yes.
- Yes.

643
00:36:10,127 --> 00:36:11,712
Several times a week.

644
00:36:11,712 --> 00:36:14,047
No, because it
would take lots of encouragement

645
00:36:14,047 --> 00:36:16,049
and not being uptight
about the whole thing.

646
00:36:16,049 --> 00:36:19,094
Yes, but in my rather
long life, too few.

647
00:36:19,094 --> 00:36:20,804
I'm not really sure
that what I think

648
00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:22,806
may have been an orgasm
really was one.

649
00:36:22,806 --> 00:36:25,017
I don't know what would
contribute to having them.

650
00:36:25,017 --> 00:36:27,769
I don't think I feel free
to have them.

651
00:36:27,769 --> 00:36:30,606
Please describe what
an orgasm feels like to you.

652
00:36:30,606 --> 00:36:32,065
How does your body feel?

653
00:36:32,065 --> 00:36:33,817
Fluttery sort of feeling.

654
00:36:33,817 --> 00:36:35,819
Almost as if my body
wasn't there.

655
00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:38,989
Like you can't move
and, I mean, just like caught.

656
00:36:38,989 --> 00:36:41,158
That's when
it's really getting good.

657
00:36:41,158 --> 00:36:45,162
Some women will say one thing,
others say another.

658
00:36:45,162 --> 00:36:48,415
Often, I touch
my face with my left hand.

659
00:36:48,415 --> 00:36:50,792
Sometimes I kiss this hand.

660
00:36:50,792 --> 00:36:52,294
When I'm close to coming,

661
00:36:52,294 --> 00:36:54,963
I have to hold on
really tight to something.

662
00:36:54,963 --> 00:36:56,965
Waves flushing
through my body,

663
00:36:56,965 --> 00:37:01,553
beginning at my clitoris
and spreading forever outward.

664
00:37:01,553 --> 00:37:03,639
Like any feeling,
you can't say.

665
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:05,349
What does cold feel like,
you know?

666
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:06,767
What does anything feel like?

667
00:37:06,767 --> 00:37:09,019
You have to translate
from prose

668
00:37:09,019 --> 00:37:11,647
these little mini stories
that women were writing

669
00:37:11,647 --> 00:37:14,691
into something like,
always, usually.

670
00:37:14,691 --> 00:37:17,152
Do your orgasms usually occur
during cunnilingus,

671
00:37:17,152 --> 00:37:20,197
manual clitoral stimulation,
intercourse,

672
00:37:20,197 --> 00:37:21,365
or other activities?

673
00:37:21,365 --> 00:37:23,367
Sometimes. Rarely. Never.

674
00:37:23,367 --> 00:37:26,036
I've never reached
orgasm through intercourse.

675
00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:28,205
I always have them
during masturbation.

676
00:37:28,205 --> 00:37:30,582
I've only made love
once with a woman.

677
00:37:30,582 --> 00:37:32,334
I was too nervous
to achieve orgasm.

678
00:37:32,334 --> 00:37:35,837
I've also had orgasms
with no sexual stimulation.

679
00:37:35,837 --> 00:37:38,465
Just running down a street,
in dreams,

680
00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:40,550
and at other odd moments.

681
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:42,135
And then we would count them up.

682
00:37:42,135 --> 00:37:45,597
Always numeral I-A,
followed by a T in a circle,

683
00:37:45,597 --> 00:37:47,307
always apart.

684
00:37:47,307 --> 00:37:49,601
My legs usually
collapse in a diamond shape.

685
00:37:49,601 --> 00:37:51,520
And that is how I fall asleep.

686
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,772
Open, closed, apart,
apart, apart.

687
00:37:53,772 --> 00:37:56,483
We tried to put together
a composite picture

688
00:37:56,483 --> 00:37:57,859
of what everybody said.

689
00:37:57,859 --> 00:37:59,569
I love vaginal penetration

690
00:37:59,569 --> 00:38:01,363
if accompanied
by clitoral foreplay.

691
00:38:01,363 --> 00:38:03,949
Circle with X in it
means manual stimulation,

692
00:38:03,949 --> 00:38:05,909
plus, intercourse equals orgasm.

693
00:38:05,909 --> 00:38:08,036
Purple, prefer with penetration.

694
00:38:08,036 --> 00:38:11,790
It was kind of like embroidery,
like little stitches,

695
00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:13,333
then they all had
to come together

696
00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:16,670
and mean something and form
a larger pattern.

697
00:38:22,342 --> 00:38:24,261
The statistics
that we're getting,

698
00:38:24,261 --> 00:38:28,015
if you want to use that term,
and faking orgasm is like 95%.

699
00:38:28,015 --> 00:38:30,976
Because even women who,
you know,

700
00:38:30,976 --> 00:38:32,769
they know better
and they understand,

701
00:38:32,769 --> 00:38:35,272
they've been in consciousness
raising and all of this,

702
00:38:35,272 --> 00:38:38,066
they still do it sometimes

703
00:38:38,066 --> 00:38:41,069
because the men haven't been
in consciousness raising.

704
00:38:41,069 --> 00:38:43,947
And, you know, like, a lot
of women don't like intercourse

705
00:38:43,947 --> 00:38:45,949
that much, and they've got
somebody on top of them,

706
00:38:45,949 --> 00:38:48,118
they can't breathe,
they're lying there,

707
00:38:48,118 --> 00:38:49,536
they can't move, right?

708
00:38:51,288 --> 00:38:52,414
She's laughing. So...

709
00:38:54,374 --> 00:38:55,792
Anyway, the phrase is,

710
00:38:55,792 --> 00:38:58,253
"Anything to get them off,"
you know?

711
00:38:58,253 --> 00:38:59,629
And that's really terrible

712
00:38:59,629 --> 00:39:01,423
when it gets to that state,
you know?

713
00:39:01,423 --> 00:39:06,219
We've been adapting our bodies
to male sexuality for centuries.

714
00:39:06,219 --> 00:39:08,805
And so I think that now
what we have to do

715
00:39:08,805 --> 00:39:11,641
is we have to take ourselves
out of that situation,

716
00:39:11,641 --> 00:39:13,977
see ourselves
just for ourselves,

717
00:39:13,977 --> 00:39:15,687
and then take that knowledge

718
00:39:15,687 --> 00:39:18,023
and relate to other people
of whatever sex,

719
00:39:18,023 --> 00:39:21,610
but to be doing things
that are right for us.

720
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,744
This really became my life
for five years,

721
00:39:30,744 --> 00:39:34,247
and it was more fulfilling than,
in many ways,

722
00:39:34,247 --> 00:39:36,333
many of the relationships
that you could have

723
00:39:36,333 --> 00:39:41,338
because so many women telling me
so many things really,

724
00:39:41,338 --> 00:39:45,342
I felt that I had 3,000
very close friends, really.

725
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:50,680
We went to celebrate
the book coming out,

726
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,267
and we had lunch
in the Tavern on the Green.

727
00:39:57,395 --> 00:40:01,358
And it was so beautiful,
and there was rain coming down

728
00:40:01,358 --> 00:40:04,319
on top of a skylight.

729
00:40:06,905 --> 00:40:09,741
It was just a wonderful day.

730
00:40:10,742 --> 00:40:14,538
We were so happy,
both glowing.

731
00:40:14,538 --> 00:40:16,414
"We did it."

732
00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:22,712
It was before
all the terrible criticism,

733
00:40:22,712 --> 00:40:25,215
I think, had come her way.

734
00:40:39,271 --> 00:40:41,189
Some years later,

735
00:40:41,189 --> 00:40:46,069
I learned that the sales manager
had ordered the sales force

736
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:49,906
not to get more than
4,000 advance orders,

737
00:40:49,906 --> 00:40:51,867
which would determine
the printing,

738
00:40:51,867 --> 00:40:55,370
which would determine
the book's fate.

739
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:57,247
They hated the book.

740
00:40:57,247 --> 00:40:59,666
They really tried
to sabotage it,

741
00:40:59,666 --> 00:41:01,918
keep it down, keep it down.

742
00:41:01,918 --> 00:41:03,920
They were only gonna
print 4,000 copies

743
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,755
and do no publicity.

744
00:41:05,755 --> 00:41:07,883
And after five years' work,
I really didn't think it was

745
00:41:07,883 --> 00:41:10,594
right to let it just go down
the drain like that.

746
00:41:10,594 --> 00:41:13,930
We were talking about
how the book can be presented.

747
00:41:13,930 --> 00:41:16,349
And she said,
"This is a news story."

748
00:41:16,349 --> 00:41:19,936
I said, "Well, then why not have
a news conference?"

749
00:41:19,936 --> 00:41:21,938
This was like
a lightning bolt splitting

750
00:41:21,938 --> 00:41:24,232
and hitting two
heads simultaneous.

751
00:41:24,232 --> 00:41:26,026
And within really just
a few short days,

752
00:41:26,026 --> 00:41:27,819
we put this together.

753
00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:30,864
{\an8}I'm Shere Hite,
the author of "The Hite Report,"

754
00:41:30,864 --> 00:41:33,450
{\an8}which is a study
of 3,000 women.

755
00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:34,618
Can you hear me?

756
00:41:34,618 --> 00:41:35,952
Can everyone hear?
Okay.

757
00:41:35,952 --> 00:41:37,537
We thought it would be best

758
00:41:37,537 --> 00:41:39,998
that she have a panel so that
not only could she

759
00:41:39,998 --> 00:41:41,875
present the book
from her point of view,

760
00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:43,293
but others could be in support.

761
00:41:43,293 --> 00:41:45,295
{\an8}This is Kay Whitlock
from NOW,

762
00:41:45,295 --> 00:41:47,964
{\an8}the National NOW
Sexuality Taskforce

763
00:41:47,964 --> 00:41:50,300
on Lesbianism and Sexuality.

764
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,929
I was thrilled that
Shere would actually reach out

765
00:41:53,929 --> 00:41:56,181
to this lesbian
NOW Taskforce.

766
00:41:56,181 --> 00:42:00,018
{\an8}There were several people
speaking, all esteemed

767
00:42:00,018 --> 00:42:03,104
{\an8}sexuality educators
and researchers,

768
00:42:03,104 --> 00:42:06,650
{\an8}and I was kind of
the young punk on the block.

769
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:08,443
{\an8}As women, we will not be free

770
00:42:08,443 --> 00:42:12,030
until we come to terms with our
own definitions of sexuality,

771
00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:15,200
and take charge
of our own sexual lives.

772
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,994
When I got a copy
of Shere's book,

773
00:42:17,994 --> 00:42:24,292
I just thought,
"Holy shit, this is amazing."

774
00:42:24,292 --> 00:42:27,254
Lesbian, heterosexual,
bisexual, celibate,

775
00:42:27,254 --> 00:42:29,756
"The Hite Report"
doesn't fall prey

776
00:42:29,756 --> 00:42:33,093
into dividing people
as society does.

777
00:42:33,093 --> 00:42:35,971
Some people's reaction
was that it sounded

778
00:42:35,971 --> 00:42:37,722
very radical.

779
00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:39,891
To me, it doesn't
sound radical at all.

780
00:42:39,891 --> 00:42:41,768
The most important finding
in my study

781
00:42:41,768 --> 00:42:44,396
is that a majority of women
don't orgasm from intercourse.

782
00:42:44,396 --> 00:42:47,524
That's what we're here
to talk about today.

783
00:42:47,524 --> 00:42:49,150
This is Janet Wolfe.

784
00:42:49,150 --> 00:42:52,445
Suppose men were
programmed with the idea

785
00:42:52,445 --> 00:42:56,241
that their sex organ
was their testicles,

786
00:42:56,241 --> 00:42:59,035
women would diddle around
every once in a while,

787
00:42:59,035 --> 00:43:00,370
on the penis.

788
00:43:00,370 --> 00:43:03,873
But men were expected
to have orgasm

789
00:43:03,873 --> 00:43:08,211
simply by stimulating
their balls.

790
00:43:08,211 --> 00:43:10,213
What would that have been like?

791
00:43:10,213 --> 00:43:11,923
I mean, it's inconceivable
for people to think,

792
00:43:11,923 --> 00:43:15,260
but that's exactly
what happened to women.

793
00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:19,097
In short, our whole idea
of sex must be re-evaluated.

794
00:43:19,097 --> 00:43:21,433
We need to make a new
kind of physical relations

795
00:43:21,433 --> 00:43:25,061
to go with a new,
more humane society,

796
00:43:25,061 --> 00:43:27,439
and that's my statement.

797
00:43:30,191 --> 00:43:33,069
Hello.
I'm Geraldo Rivera.

798
00:43:33,069 --> 00:43:35,071
Good evening, and welcome
to a special edition

799
00:43:35,071 --> 00:43:36,531
of "Good Night America."

800
00:43:36,531 --> 00:43:38,241
The words
"clitoris" and "orgasm"

801
00:43:38,241 --> 00:43:40,493
{\an8}were not permitted
in many newspapers,

802
00:43:40,493 --> 00:43:43,580
as if that part of women's
anatomy was dirty

803
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:45,165
and had to be hidden.

804
00:43:45,165 --> 00:43:48,460
Masturbation, orgasm,
don't get hung up,

805
00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:50,795
don't get turned on,
and don't get turned off

806
00:43:50,795 --> 00:43:52,589
by the use of those words.

807
00:43:52,589 --> 00:43:54,132
They're just words.

808
00:43:54,132 --> 00:43:56,176
So even to use
the words was heroic

809
00:43:56,176 --> 00:43:58,053
on the part of journalists.

810
00:43:58,053 --> 00:44:00,013
Please join me in welcoming
our special guest

811
00:44:00,013 --> 00:44:01,723
this evening, Miss Shere Hite.

812
00:44:06,644 --> 00:44:09,189
- Hi.
- Hi.

813
00:44:09,189 --> 00:44:12,359
Your book has really caused
a tremendous stir.

814
00:44:12,359 --> 00:44:15,111
And I just wonder,
Masters and Johnson went to

815
00:44:15,111 --> 00:44:18,782
great lengths to describe
exactly how women achieved

816
00:44:18,782 --> 00:44:22,160
orgasm through intercourse.

817
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,287
Your study contradicts that.

818
00:44:24,287 --> 00:44:26,289
I want you to talk a little bit
more about that, Shere.

819
00:44:26,289 --> 00:44:29,292
Masters and Johnson made
a tremendous step forward

820
00:44:29,292 --> 00:44:33,171
in that they studied and showed
clinically, for the first time,

821
00:44:33,171 --> 00:44:36,049
that all orgasms are caused
by clitoral stimulation.

822
00:44:36,049 --> 00:44:38,301
And we really have them
to thank for that.

823
00:44:38,301 --> 00:44:41,513
However, when they described
how it's done,

824
00:44:41,513 --> 00:44:45,892
the thrusting of the penis
causes the vaginal lips to move,

825
00:44:45,892 --> 00:44:47,435
which causes the skin

826
00:44:47,435 --> 00:44:49,312
that's connected
to the clitoris to move,

827
00:44:49,312 --> 00:44:51,856
which causes the glans
to move over the clitoris,

828
00:44:51,856 --> 00:44:54,401
which supposedly
gives you orgasm.

829
00:44:54,401 --> 00:44:56,277
But that doesn't work
for most women,

830
00:44:56,277 --> 00:44:59,406
and I called it, unkindly,
a Rube Goldberg model.

831
00:44:59,406 --> 00:45:01,449
There's just too many
variables involved.

832
00:45:01,449 --> 00:45:03,368
It's funny, when you describe it
that way, it kind of sounds

833
00:45:03,368 --> 00:45:05,245
like the knee bone
connected to the shinbone.

834
00:45:05,245 --> 00:45:06,871
That's right.

835
00:45:06,871 --> 00:45:08,039
That's right.

836
00:45:09,499 --> 00:45:11,000
What percentage of...

837
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,170
Shere was breaking
a functional silence.

838
00:45:14,170 --> 00:45:17,924
It was brave in a way
that took my breath away.

839
00:45:17,924 --> 00:45:19,634
I wonder what the notoriety

840
00:45:19,634 --> 00:45:21,636
that has attached
already to "The Hite Report,"

841
00:45:21,636 --> 00:45:25,348
and certainly that will grow,
what effect has it had on you?

842
00:45:25,348 --> 00:45:27,725
The main problem I've been
up against is to try

843
00:45:27,725 --> 00:45:30,603
and make sure that things
that are written reflect

844
00:45:30,603 --> 00:45:33,064
accurately what it is
that the book is saying,

845
00:45:33,064 --> 00:45:34,941
and keep the emphasis
on the fact

846
00:45:34,941 --> 00:45:36,317
that women are speaking out,

847
00:45:36,317 --> 00:45:38,027
and that it's
a communal discussion

848
00:45:38,027 --> 00:45:40,196
and not anything
having to do with me.

849
00:45:40,196 --> 00:45:41,614
Have you been successful
in hearing...

850
00:45:41,614 --> 00:45:43,533
I think pretty much most of
the things

851
00:45:43,533 --> 00:45:45,952
that have been written have been
very good and very serious.

852
00:45:45,952 --> 00:45:47,203
I'm very pleased.

853
00:45:47,203 --> 00:45:48,288
National Public Radio...

854
00:45:48,288 --> 00:45:49,706
Author Shere Hite.

855
00:45:49,706 --> 00:45:51,541
The Hite Report,
phenomenal success.

856
00:45:51,541 --> 00:45:53,126
<i>News Weekly,</i>
biggest sex study

857
00:45:53,126 --> 00:45:54,919
since Masters and Johnson.

858
00:45:54,919 --> 00:45:57,380
{\an8}The book got such good
coverage and such good press

859
00:45:57,380 --> 00:46:01,426
{\an8}from the get-go,
primarily from women.

860
00:46:03,845 --> 00:46:06,890
There's very short amount
of time between the release

861
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:11,102
of the book and kind of the book
becoming a phenomenon.

862
00:46:12,896 --> 00:46:16,566
It was so short that
I think she was swept up in it,

863
00:46:16,566 --> 00:46:18,443
and she could only
have been surprised

864
00:46:18,443 --> 00:46:22,155
for a very short amount of time
before the reality hit her,

865
00:46:22,155 --> 00:46:24,365
"This is a success."

866
00:46:27,368 --> 00:46:29,245
But we have
new book on it today.

867
00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:30,872
Is there
a new book on sex?

868
00:46:30,872 --> 00:46:32,248
"The Hite Report."

869
00:46:32,248 --> 00:46:34,918
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
a woman's point of view.

870
00:46:34,918 --> 00:46:36,794
Ugh!

871
00:46:36,794 --> 00:46:39,506
You know, only been 200 million
years we've been doing this.

872
00:46:39,506 --> 00:46:41,591
All of a sudden, they got to
give you diagrams how to do it.

873
00:46:41,591 --> 00:46:43,092
- That's right.
- You don't think that the women

874
00:46:43,092 --> 00:46:44,802
should have any point of view?

875
00:46:44,802 --> 00:46:46,095
No, no.

876
00:46:46,095 --> 00:46:48,014
I say what they're doing
is making a book

877
00:46:48,014 --> 00:46:49,265
out of a woman's point of view.

878
00:46:49,265 --> 00:46:50,850
In the bookstores these days,

879
00:46:50,850 --> 00:46:52,769
there's one section
that's getting almost as big

880
00:46:52,769 --> 00:46:55,355
as the cooking book section,
and that's female sexuality.

881
00:46:55,355 --> 00:46:57,065
Is there room for yet
another book?

882
00:46:57,065 --> 00:46:59,234
There is, apparently,
"The Hite Report."

883
00:46:59,234 --> 00:47:01,903
Consequences
of publishing a successful book

884
00:47:01,903 --> 00:47:04,030
{\an8}were a real culture shock to me.

885
00:47:04,030 --> 00:47:06,282
It seems odd to me
that penetration

886
00:47:06,282 --> 00:47:07,617
wouldn't satisfy a woman,

887
00:47:07,617 --> 00:47:09,702
and I wonder
if we're made wrong.

888
00:47:09,702 --> 00:47:11,996
Or if there's
some terrific joke.

889
00:47:11,996 --> 00:47:16,042
I found the newspaper
and TV situation confusing.

890
00:47:16,042 --> 00:47:18,086
What does
your study tell us

891
00:47:18,086 --> 00:47:21,297
about how women
really do define sex?

892
00:47:21,297 --> 00:47:26,052
Well, women see sex as something
that values very much

893
00:47:26,052 --> 00:47:28,388
the intimacy,
the closeness, touching,

894
00:47:28,388 --> 00:47:30,807
the expression of feelings.

895
00:47:30,807 --> 00:47:32,267
That's not new.

896
00:47:32,267 --> 00:47:34,143
That we know.
We've known that women...

897
00:47:34,143 --> 00:47:36,688
Well, you see,
I can't do it by...

898
00:47:36,688 --> 00:47:39,148
You see, I'm already finding
myself when I said that,

899
00:47:39,148 --> 00:47:40,984
saying something
that doesn't...

900
00:47:40,984 --> 00:47:42,485
You see, I have to couch
the language

901
00:47:42,485 --> 00:47:44,654
in a way that reflects
how my study went.

902
00:47:44,654 --> 00:47:48,074
I can't-- you said I was--
I'm undefining sex.

903
00:47:48,074 --> 00:47:51,536
I can't tell you
what the new sex will be.

904
00:47:51,536 --> 00:47:53,871
{\an8}
I didn't know how to react.

905
00:47:53,871 --> 00:47:57,000
{\an8}Articles often seemed not
to reflect the ideas

906
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,167
I meant to communicate.

907
00:47:58,167 --> 00:47:59,877
Was it a political ploy

908
00:47:59,877 --> 00:48:04,299
you were using to suggest
that women didn't need men?

909
00:48:04,299 --> 00:48:05,842
But why would I want to do that?

910
00:48:05,842 --> 00:48:07,677
Well, that came through to me...

911
00:48:07,677 --> 00:48:10,054
Can I quote you from page 169,
I'll quote you directly...

912
00:48:10,054 --> 00:48:13,308
If there has been
a backlash to your report

913
00:48:13,308 --> 00:48:19,314
amongst men it is because of
a fear that masturbation

914
00:48:19,314 --> 00:48:21,190
will then become
the ultimate sex act

915
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:23,026
and men will become
in some way irrelevant.

916
00:48:23,026 --> 00:48:24,861
That's terrible.

917
00:48:24,861 --> 00:48:27,447
All you need is one super stud
around to service each nation.

918
00:48:27,447 --> 00:48:29,032
What about the men
in your life?

919
00:48:29,032 --> 00:48:30,533
Are they intimidated by the fact

920
00:48:30,533 --> 00:48:33,328
that you are now
such an expert in this field?

921
00:48:33,328 --> 00:48:35,371
No, I don't think so.

922
00:48:35,371 --> 00:48:38,082
I think everybody
that I know is

923
00:48:38,082 --> 00:48:41,586
very involved in the spirit
of the whole thing and very...

924
00:48:41,586 --> 00:48:43,713
Everybody is so excited
about the changes

925
00:48:43,713 --> 00:48:47,592
that are possible and involved
in their own change

926
00:48:47,592 --> 00:48:51,554
that I haven't found
that at all.

927
00:48:59,479 --> 00:49:02,523
She moved to
the Hotel Alden down the block,

928
00:49:02,523 --> 00:49:05,777
quite different
from the basement apartment.

929
00:49:07,362 --> 00:49:09,489
As the book became successful,

930
00:49:09,489 --> 00:49:12,241
Shere threw a party
to celebrate

931
00:49:12,241 --> 00:49:15,620
all of the respondents
to the questionnaire.

932
00:49:15,620 --> 00:49:18,373
And she'd gotten enough money
back to reimburse

933
00:49:18,373 --> 00:49:19,957
all of the people
who had loaned her money

934
00:49:19,957 --> 00:49:23,961
over the course
of the writing of the book.

935
00:49:23,961 --> 00:49:26,631
I remember the cake,

936
00:49:26,631 --> 00:49:29,384
and I remember all the names
going around the cake.

937
00:49:29,384 --> 00:49:31,844
And that was very important
to her.

938
00:49:31,844 --> 00:49:35,431
{\an8}She's a very generous person
who shares the credit.

939
00:49:35,431 --> 00:49:39,519
She did ask me to give her
money, and I gave her money.

940
00:49:40,603 --> 00:49:42,438
Shere had gotten
a meager advance,

941
00:49:42,438 --> 00:49:45,900
but the book
was years in creation.

942
00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:48,152
She would borrow money
from anybody

943
00:49:48,152 --> 00:49:50,697
who seemed to be coming along.

944
00:49:51,781 --> 00:49:54,826
{\an8}A lot of people
fell in love with the project

945
00:49:54,826 --> 00:49:56,953
and in love with Shere.

946
00:49:58,413 --> 00:49:59,956
At one point,
she turned to me,

947
00:49:59,956 --> 00:50:02,125
and she said, "You know,
I'm kind of short of money,

948
00:50:02,125 --> 00:50:07,714
{\an8}and you've never offered
to loan me any money," you know?

949
00:50:09,674 --> 00:50:12,468
Sure, the answer is sure.

950
00:50:12,468 --> 00:50:15,304
I had to go to a bank and get
a cash advance

951
00:50:15,304 --> 00:50:17,140
on my credit card.

952
00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:18,975
Men have all the money.

953
00:50:18,975 --> 00:50:22,562
They also have a lot easier time
getting loans than women do.

954
00:50:22,562 --> 00:50:24,147
Women couldn't get
a credit card.

955
00:50:24,147 --> 00:50:25,690
You had to have
a man vouch for you.

956
00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:27,567
I mean, the laws were horrific.

957
00:50:27,567 --> 00:50:30,069
She actually borrowed money
from someone

958
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:31,696
who worked in my building.

959
00:50:31,696 --> 00:50:34,657
The porter. He became
a good friend of hers.

960
00:50:34,657 --> 00:50:38,578
He helped support her
while she was writing this.

961
00:50:39,871 --> 00:50:43,666
Maybe that was
the happiest I've ever seen her.

962
00:50:43,666 --> 00:50:47,920
She had a smile on her face
that just was endless.

963
00:50:51,966 --> 00:50:54,469
This is for you.

964
00:50:54,469 --> 00:50:57,346
Yeah. I can't read that.

965
00:50:57,346 --> 00:50:59,474
I can't read most of them.

966
00:50:59,474 --> 00:51:02,351
Did you get any
interesting letters yet?

967
00:51:02,351 --> 00:51:04,353
I've been doing
a questionnaire for men

968
00:51:04,353 --> 00:51:06,105
for two years, and in a couple
more years,

969
00:51:06,105 --> 00:51:07,523
I'll be done with it.

970
00:51:07,523 --> 00:51:08,983
TIME Magazine
suggests your next book

971
00:51:08,983 --> 00:51:10,777
will be called
"Do Men Need Intercourse?"

972
00:51:10,777 --> 00:51:12,528
No, it's not going
to be called that.

973
00:51:12,528 --> 00:51:16,032
It's going to be about
how men feel about sex.

974
00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:22,205
I had a few
boyfriends over those years.

975
00:51:22,205 --> 00:51:24,040
{\an8}One, I liked a lot.

976
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,625
{\an8}A struggling young artist.

977
00:51:25,625 --> 00:51:30,046
{\an8}I moved to New York
January of 1977.

978
00:51:30,046 --> 00:51:32,507
{\an8}I had a raw loft in Chelsea.

979
00:51:32,507 --> 00:51:34,133
I was living out of a suitcase.

980
00:51:34,133 --> 00:51:36,469
I didn't even have a dresser
to put my clothes in.

981
00:51:36,469 --> 00:51:40,097
I got on to a painting crew
at the Alden Hotel,

982
00:51:40,097 --> 00:51:42,558
painting all the corridors.

983
00:51:42,558 --> 00:51:44,602
One day, a door opened
and a woman

984
00:51:44,602 --> 00:51:47,271
with bright orange hair
came out.

985
00:51:47,271 --> 00:51:49,398
She said, "Hello.

986
00:51:49,398 --> 00:51:53,402
Would you be interested
in painting my windows?"

987
00:51:53,402 --> 00:51:55,530
I didn't know who she was.

988
00:51:55,530 --> 00:51:59,575
I noticed boxes and boxes
of books with the title

989
00:51:59,575 --> 00:52:00,993
"The Hite Report."

990
00:52:00,993 --> 00:52:02,870
And they were in all
different languages,

991
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:04,413
Hebrew even.

992
00:52:04,413 --> 00:52:07,416
We hit it off right away.

993
00:52:07,416 --> 00:52:09,168
She gave me a copy.

994
00:52:09,168 --> 00:52:11,337
And I guess I had what you
would call a baptism of fire.

995
00:52:11,337 --> 00:52:16,259
I learned a lot about her ideas,
being more aware of my feelings

996
00:52:16,259 --> 00:52:21,472
and also how my behavior
affected her and other women.

997
00:52:21,472 --> 00:52:24,684
She was so interesting
and so charming.

998
00:52:24,684 --> 00:52:27,854
I was kind of mesmerized,
I guess.

999
00:52:31,315 --> 00:52:35,778
{\an8}He was beautiful,
in both body and spirit.

1000
00:52:39,031 --> 00:52:42,743
I don't remember much about
how we made love.

1001
00:52:44,328 --> 00:52:46,038
Though I remember that together,

1002
00:52:46,038 --> 00:52:51,794
we concocted magnificent shades
of pale yellow, ivory, and rose

1003
00:52:51,794 --> 00:52:55,715
in different finishes
for the walls and moldings.

1004
00:52:56,632 --> 00:52:59,093
When the sunlight
hit these colors,

1005
00:52:59,093 --> 00:53:01,637
the walls appeared luminescent.

1006
00:53:01,637 --> 00:53:04,307
She was just working
all the time.

1007
00:53:04,307 --> 00:53:08,728
It was a small one-bedroom,
and she used the front room

1008
00:53:08,728 --> 00:53:13,149
as the office, couple of doors
on file cabinets for desks,

1009
00:53:13,149 --> 00:53:16,944
and she had a lot of people
working for her.

1010
00:53:18,362 --> 00:53:20,823
While she was working
on the men's book,

1011
00:53:20,823 --> 00:53:23,159
she was also conceiving
a follow-up survey

1012
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:26,621
for women
about their emotional lives.

1013
00:53:26,621 --> 00:53:29,165
Even though she had a completely
different background

1014
00:53:29,165 --> 00:53:31,500
from so many of the women
that were writing

1015
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:33,085
and filling out
the questionnaires,

1016
00:53:33,085 --> 00:53:36,172
she was experiencing
what they were experiencing,

1017
00:53:36,172 --> 00:53:38,215
what does it mean
to be in a relationship.

1018
00:53:38,215 --> 00:53:40,593
So she was one of them.

1019
00:53:40,593 --> 00:53:42,094
The purpose
of this questionnaire

1020
00:53:42,094 --> 00:53:43,971
is to hear women's
point of view on questions

1021
00:53:43,971 --> 00:53:47,558
that were left unanswered
in the original Hite Report.

1022
00:53:47,558 --> 00:53:50,770
How women feel about love,
relationships, marriage,

1023
00:53:50,770 --> 00:53:55,566
and monogamy were not covered
due to lack of funds.

1024
00:53:55,566 --> 00:53:57,568
I think these should be taped.

1025
00:53:57,568 --> 00:54:01,113
You need somebody to hire
and efficiently send...

1026
00:54:01,113 --> 00:54:02,740
Now, here's...

1027
00:54:02,740 --> 00:54:04,492
In some cases,
women would record cassettes

1028
00:54:04,492 --> 00:54:07,703
of their replies
to the questionnaire.

1029
00:54:09,163 --> 00:54:12,249
Looks like I have to
switch to a tape recorder

1030
00:54:12,249 --> 00:54:13,542
because this is ridiculous.

1031
00:54:13,542 --> 00:54:17,046
It's taking me much too long
to type.

1032
00:54:17,046 --> 00:54:20,007
{\an8}The women's movement,
I think, is interesting.

1033
00:54:20,007 --> 00:54:23,844
{\an8}I'm a Black woman,
and I'm doing some research

1034
00:54:23,844 --> 00:54:28,683
{\an8}now on the Black woman's
feminist movement.

1035
00:54:28,683 --> 00:54:31,894
I think we've always been torn.

1036
00:54:31,894 --> 00:54:34,814
We don't want to put
our men down.

1037
00:54:34,814 --> 00:54:37,692
And we're not exactly
what a white woman

1038
00:54:37,692 --> 00:54:40,987
is in terms
of what her goals are.

1039
00:54:40,987 --> 00:54:44,156
It's a very tricky situation.

1040
00:54:45,825 --> 00:54:49,829
{\an8}I'm embarrassed to admit
that I skimmed "The Hite Report"

1041
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:51,455
{\an8}for my own answers.

1042
00:54:51,455 --> 00:54:55,084
{\an8}I answered that questionnaire
when I was 20 years old.

1043
00:54:55,084 --> 00:54:58,337
One time,
as a sneaky experiment,

1044
00:54:58,337 --> 00:55:03,718
I showed the book
to a boyfriend, a new boyfriend,

1045
00:55:03,718 --> 00:55:06,178
pretending to just
randomly open a page,

1046
00:55:06,178 --> 00:55:11,851
but actually opening it
to a quote by me about sex.

1047
00:55:11,851 --> 00:55:14,437
He read the page and then
he said, "This is gross.

1048
00:55:14,437 --> 00:55:15,771
Did you read this one?"

1049
00:55:15,771 --> 00:55:19,108
Pointing to what I had written.

1050
00:55:19,108 --> 00:55:23,279
What is your
own description of yourself?

1051
00:55:23,279 --> 00:55:26,490
I'm a female, very proud
of being a woman.

1052
00:55:26,490 --> 00:55:28,409
I like being a woman.

1053
00:55:28,409 --> 00:55:31,037
I think I'm very strong.

1054
00:55:31,037 --> 00:55:36,459
I can do anything that I set
my mind to doing.

1055
00:55:36,459 --> 00:55:37,960
And I like that.

1056
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,714
I like the strength
of the female.

1057
00:55:42,798 --> 00:55:44,800
She would listen
to them and remark

1058
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,969
upon how lovely
these people sounded,

1059
00:55:46,969 --> 00:55:50,347
and their tone of voice and how
gracious and caring they were,

1060
00:55:50,347 --> 00:55:52,600
and aspirational they were.

1061
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,351
Wouldn't it be?
Couldn't it be?

1062
00:55:54,351 --> 00:55:55,644
That was who she was.

1063
00:55:55,644 --> 00:55:57,229
She was drawing strength
from them

1064
00:55:57,229 --> 00:56:00,941
in a way that helped propel
her further in her work.

1065
00:56:00,941 --> 00:56:04,820
{\an8}My name is Mariko Tse.
I am a spokesperson

1066
00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:08,074
{\an8}for the Asian/Pacific
American Women's Caucus.

1067
00:56:08,074 --> 00:56:12,661
National Indian Women's
and Alaskan Natives Caucus.

1068
00:56:12,661 --> 00:56:15,664
I'm Sandra Serrano Sewell,
president of

1069
00:56:15,664 --> 00:56:18,667
Comisión Femenil
Mexicana Nacional.

1070
00:56:18,667 --> 00:56:21,545
In Houston, there's a huge
National Women's Conference.

1071
00:56:21,545 --> 00:56:24,924
The largest gathering
of women in American history.

1072
00:56:24,924 --> 00:56:26,675
They will approve
a national plan

1073
00:56:26,675 --> 00:56:28,511
to improve the status of women.

1074
00:56:28,511 --> 00:56:31,806
There were strong differences
of opinion on how to do that.

1075
00:56:31,806 --> 00:56:34,016
And Texas Congresswoman
Barbara Jordan

1076
00:56:34,016 --> 00:56:36,852
appealed for reason
and compromise.

1077
00:56:36,852 --> 00:56:39,480
And when the debate
becomes heated,

1078
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,360
I hope you will remember
Lyndon Johnson's invocation

1079
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,196
of Isaiah's invocation,

1080
00:56:47,196 --> 00:56:51,200
"Come now, let us
reason together."

1081
00:56:54,036 --> 00:56:56,831
Across town there was
an even bigger gathering.

1082
00:56:56,831 --> 00:56:58,707
Many are
Fundamentalist Christian.

1083
00:56:58,707 --> 00:57:00,876
They're against
the Equal Rights Amendment.

1084
00:57:00,876 --> 00:57:03,129
They're against
abortion on demand.

1085
00:57:03,129 --> 00:57:06,048
They're against laws
favoring homosexuals.

1086
00:57:06,048 --> 00:57:08,425
Their numbers indicate
that a lot of people

1087
00:57:08,425 --> 00:57:10,177
in this country fear the changes

1088
00:57:10,177 --> 00:57:13,931
that the women's movement
is trying to make.

1089
00:57:13,931 --> 00:57:17,977
Shere knew sexuality
was one of the things

1090
00:57:17,977 --> 00:57:21,897
that could be most easily
weaponized by the right,

1091
00:57:21,897 --> 00:57:26,402
with the deadliest
possible consequences.

1092
00:57:26,402 --> 00:57:33,242
♪ Yes, Jesus loves me ♪

1093
00:57:33,242 --> 00:57:36,996
In 1977, Anita Bryant
surfaces in

1094
00:57:36,996 --> 00:57:38,789
Dade County, Florida.

1095
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:41,083
With a religious fervor
that has made her America's

1096
00:57:41,083 --> 00:57:43,002
most controversial
woman overnight,

1097
00:57:43,002 --> 00:57:46,255
her group is crusading
to repeal a new Dade County Law

1098
00:57:46,255 --> 00:57:50,009
which protects homosexuals
in jobs and housing.

1099
00:57:50,009 --> 00:57:53,387
{\an8}For the first time,
I know the Christian community

1100
00:57:53,387 --> 00:57:56,640
{\an8}have never been involved in any
political controversial issue,

1101
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,517
and they're not
only involved,

1102
00:57:58,517 --> 00:58:00,060
but they're committed.

1103
00:58:00,060 --> 00:58:02,563
There starts to be
a solidification

1104
00:58:02,563 --> 00:58:08,944
of a right-wing movement
toward real political power.

1105
00:58:08,944 --> 00:58:10,946
Billy Graham, Pat Robertson,

1106
00:58:10,946 --> 00:58:13,699
{\an8}Jim Dobson's
Focus on the Family,

1107
00:58:13,699 --> 00:58:17,870
{\an8}Jerry Falwell
and his Moral Majority.

1108
00:58:17,870 --> 00:58:21,790
Almost always you're going
to find an argument

1109
00:58:21,790 --> 00:58:24,627
about the corruption
of innocent children

1110
00:58:24,627 --> 00:58:27,296
at the heart of
any kind of culture war.

1111
00:58:27,296 --> 00:58:29,173
I like all those badges
you got there.

1112
00:58:29,173 --> 00:58:32,593
Homosexuals cannot
reproduce biologically,

1113
00:58:32,593 --> 00:58:37,264
but they have to reproduce
by recruiting our children.

1114
00:58:37,264 --> 00:58:41,101
Shere paid for
Mary Calderone and me

1115
00:58:41,101 --> 00:58:43,103
to go to Dade County
and spend time

1116
00:58:43,103 --> 00:58:47,024
working in the campaign
to defeat Anita Bryant.

1117
00:58:47,024 --> 00:58:48,776
The campaign
has been vicious,

1118
00:58:48,776 --> 00:58:51,320
with television commercials,
the Save Our Children Group

1119
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,906
is appealing
to parental anxieties.

1120
00:58:53,906 --> 00:58:55,574
When they take
to the streets,

1121
00:58:55,574 --> 00:58:58,911
it's a parade of homosexuals,
men hugging other men,

1122
00:58:58,911 --> 00:59:00,829
cavorting with little boys.

1123
00:59:00,829 --> 00:59:02,706
The country is really,
at this moment,

1124
00:59:02,706 --> 00:59:05,000
looking to Dade County
to save us

1125
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,170
from a wave of reaction
and viciousness and bigotry.

1126
00:59:08,170 --> 00:59:10,673
One gay spokesman
had his car fire bombed

1127
00:59:10,673 --> 00:59:14,677
after doing
a television interview.

1128
00:59:14,677 --> 00:59:16,971
In Florida's Dade County
referendum,

1129
00:59:16,971 --> 00:59:20,391
those advocating job and housing
rights for homosexuals

1130
00:59:20,391 --> 00:59:23,143
lost badly,
by more than two to one.

1131
00:59:23,143 --> 00:59:26,689
The campaign led by
Anita Bryant was the winner.

1132
00:59:26,689 --> 00:59:29,358
The war goes on
to save our children,

1133
00:59:29,358 --> 00:59:31,527
because the seed
of sexual sickness

1134
00:59:31,527 --> 00:59:35,531
that germinated in Dade County
has already been transplanted

1135
00:59:35,531 --> 00:59:38,909
by misguided liberals in
the U.S. Congress.

1136
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:41,620
Shere was just right there.

1137
00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:45,124
There was no question
of her understanding

1138
00:59:45,124 --> 00:59:49,336
of the politics
of anti-gay movements

1139
00:59:49,336 --> 00:59:53,799
and how this was building
and what this constituted.

1140
00:59:53,799 --> 00:59:58,262
If we're going to undefine,
not redefine, but undefine,

1141
00:59:58,262 --> 01:00:01,390
how we relate to each other,
so that each individual can

1142
01:00:01,390 --> 01:00:04,560
decide how to share their body
with another person,

1143
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,146
then I think we have
to imagine people

1144
01:00:07,146 --> 01:00:11,025
will love people
of the same sex, also.

1145
01:00:11,191 --> 01:00:13,777
She cared passionately
about a better world

1146
01:00:13,777 --> 01:00:18,032
for everyone, without labels,
without repression.

1147
01:00:18,032 --> 01:00:21,076
It's hard to express just
how revolutionary

1148
01:00:21,076 --> 01:00:23,996
I think that was at the time.

1149
01:00:27,249 --> 01:00:29,043
{\an8}There are
consciousness-raising groups

1150
01:00:29,043 --> 01:00:31,754
all over the country exploring
how women feel about themselves,

1151
01:00:31,754 --> 01:00:33,964
their sexuality,
their role in society.

1152
01:00:33,964 --> 01:00:35,632
But so far we've heard
very little from men

1153
01:00:35,632 --> 01:00:37,509
on these subjects.

1154
01:00:37,509 --> 01:00:39,595
Here at last is the
long-awaited companion volume

1155
01:00:39,595 --> 01:00:43,849
to Shere Hite's blockbuster
bestseller on female sexuality.

1156
01:00:43,849 --> 01:00:45,517
Welcome, Shere Hite.

1157
01:00:47,311 --> 01:00:50,939
"The Hite Report on Male
Sexuality" continues to carry on

1158
01:00:50,939 --> 01:00:52,775
{\an8}in the author's
controversial tradition.

1159
01:00:52,775 --> 01:00:54,276
{\an8}Here is Shere Hite.

1160
01:00:54,276 --> 01:00:57,071
Why are people so fascinated
with all this?

1161
01:00:57,071 --> 01:00:58,947
Well, you know, there are
many books on sex

1162
01:00:58,947 --> 01:01:00,491
that don't sell at all.

1163
01:01:00,491 --> 01:01:02,868
So the idea that people
are fascinated with sex,

1164
01:01:02,868 --> 01:01:04,661
per se, may not be correct.

1165
01:01:04,661 --> 01:01:06,038
My area was a little different.

1166
01:01:06,038 --> 01:01:07,790
I'm really trying to draw
a picture,

1167
01:01:07,790 --> 01:01:09,333
a larger picture
of the society

1168
01:01:09,333 --> 01:01:13,003
and how people are feeling
within that society.

1169
01:01:13,003 --> 01:01:15,130
The women's movement,

1170
01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:19,385
how has it affected
the male's sexual response?

1171
01:01:19,385 --> 01:01:22,346
Um, I think that the women's
movement can only help men,

1172
01:01:22,346 --> 01:01:25,182
because men complained
over and over in my study,

1173
01:01:25,182 --> 01:01:27,768
and that's certainly not
the first time they complained,

1174
01:01:27,768 --> 01:01:31,980
that they felt a lot
of pressures on them to perform.

1175
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:33,399
They had to get an erection.

1176
01:01:33,399 --> 01:01:35,109
You have to have intercourse
long enough

1177
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:37,027
for the woman to have an orgasm.

1178
01:01:37,027 --> 01:01:39,405
My study showed,
in the first book,

1179
01:01:39,405 --> 01:01:43,117
that most women can orgasm
easily from clitoral stimulation

1180
01:01:43,117 --> 01:01:44,743
and not from intercourse
so much.

1181
01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:49,081
I know a lot of women,
though, that, that...

1182
01:01:49,081 --> 01:01:50,624
Well, never mind, go ahead.

1183
01:01:50,624 --> 01:01:52,126
No, go ahead.

1184
01:01:52,126 --> 01:01:54,086
No, no, go ahead.
I don't mean to interrupt.

1185
01:01:54,086 --> 01:01:56,004
David, please finish
the statement.

1186
01:01:56,004 --> 01:01:57,464
You don't want to leave
the audience hanging.

1187
01:01:57,464 --> 01:01:59,591
"I know a lot of women that..."

1188
01:01:59,591 --> 01:02:00,843
We'll pick it up there.

1189
01:02:00,843 --> 01:02:02,261
That don't...

1190
01:02:02,261 --> 01:02:03,846
God, how do you
talk about this stuff?

1191
01:02:03,846 --> 01:02:06,640
- Don't have orgasms.
- That don't-- that don't--

1192
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:07,850
- The usual way.
- Yeah.

1193
01:02:07,850 --> 01:02:09,226
- Right.
- Yeah.

1194
01:02:09,226 --> 01:02:12,062
That have orga--
That if you're going to...

1195
01:02:14,356 --> 01:02:18,068
They-- They are embarrassed
by clitoral stimulation, also.

1196
01:02:18,068 --> 01:02:20,112
You know what I'm saying?

1197
01:02:20,112 --> 01:02:23,323
Shere didn't smoke
when we were together.

1198
01:02:23,323 --> 01:02:27,411
She was a bad girl when
she wanted to be a bad girl.

1199
01:02:27,411 --> 01:02:28,912
I'm Bette Davis.

1200
01:02:28,912 --> 01:02:30,372
I'm Marlene Dietrich.

1201
01:02:30,372 --> 01:02:33,000
She, essentially, smoked
in Mike Douglas' face.

1202
01:02:35,002 --> 01:02:36,336
- Sorry.
- That's a bad habit.

1203
01:02:36,336 --> 01:02:37,754
- Yeah, I guess you're right.
- Yeah.

1204
01:02:37,754 --> 01:02:39,673
♪ When you're laying
so close to me ♪

1205
01:02:39,673 --> 01:02:42,885
The adjective I would
apply to Shere is "flamboyant."

1206
01:02:42,885 --> 01:02:44,428
That's what she wanted to be.

1207
01:02:44,428 --> 01:02:47,264
And that's what she came
across as being.

1208
01:02:47,264 --> 01:02:49,892
{\an8}♪ I love to love you, baby ♪

1209
01:02:49,892 --> 01:02:52,352
Not scary, not even
nervous making,

1210
01:02:52,352 --> 01:02:55,147
but it kept you
with your wits about you.

1211
01:02:55,147 --> 01:02:56,690
Sex expert Shere Hite

1212
01:02:56,690 --> 01:03:01,737
{\an8}on her new surprising report
on male sexuality.

1213
01:03:01,737 --> 01:03:03,906
I knew, of course,
that there would be a great deal

1214
01:03:03,906 --> 01:03:06,825
of interest in this book,
because the first Hite Report

1215
01:03:06,825 --> 01:03:08,827
was such a sensational success.

1216
01:03:08,827 --> 01:03:11,246
{\an8}Shere, in your report
on female sexuality,

1217
01:03:11,246 --> 01:03:13,749
{\an8}men were staggered to learn
that clitoral stimulation

1218
01:03:13,749 --> 01:03:15,918
was much more important
than penetration.

1219
01:03:15,918 --> 01:03:17,461
The world was agog.

1220
01:03:17,461 --> 01:03:19,880
Now what did you find out
in male sexuality

1221
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,465
that was equally astonishing?

1222
01:03:21,465 --> 01:03:24,843
What will women who read
this book find out about men

1223
01:03:24,843 --> 01:03:26,261
that they did not know before?

1224
01:03:26,261 --> 01:03:28,847
1,100 pages,
7,000 interviews altogether.

1225
01:03:28,847 --> 01:03:31,183
I think Shere decided
to do the male book

1226
01:03:31,183 --> 01:03:35,479
{\an8}because we would understand
more about men's issues,

1227
01:03:35,479 --> 01:03:38,357
their inability to communicate.

1228
01:03:40,275 --> 01:03:42,611
Men's book, why so angry?

1229
01:03:42,611 --> 01:03:46,448
{\an8}Too many demands, men don't
feel free to be themselves.

1230
01:03:46,448 --> 01:03:48,700
{\an8}What are the values men
are taught?

1231
01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:50,285
{\an8}Why do men want sex?

1232
01:03:50,285 --> 01:03:53,622
{\an8}How do men feel about women,
us, and themselves?

1233
01:03:53,622 --> 01:03:58,085
{\an8}For me, a crucial thing
in my experience

1234
01:03:58,085 --> 01:04:01,838
of working on that book
was when I asked to read

1235
01:04:01,838 --> 01:04:05,676
a whole lot of
the filled out questionnaires.

1236
01:04:07,427 --> 01:04:12,599
{\an8}Somewhere between 60 and 100
questionnaires that I read full.

1237
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:15,769
{\an8}Age 50, occupation,
college professor.

1238
01:04:15,769 --> 01:04:17,771
Black,
born and upbrought,

1239
01:04:17,771 --> 01:04:19,231
until 11, in a small town.

1240
01:04:19,231 --> 01:04:20,816
I work in a mill
for a mining company.

1241
01:04:20,816 --> 01:04:23,485
Age 62. English.
Youngest of three children.

1242
01:04:23,485 --> 01:04:25,779
I'm 57.
I love my wife and children.

1243
01:04:25,779 --> 01:04:29,449
These guys, not about
their sex lives

1244
01:04:29,449 --> 01:04:34,162
or their fantasies
or their frustrations.

1245
01:04:34,162 --> 01:04:37,874
But when they started
answering the questions

1246
01:04:37,874 --> 01:04:40,085
about their emotional life,

1247
01:04:40,085 --> 01:04:44,923
I haven't had many
sadder experiences

1248
01:04:44,923 --> 01:04:47,092
as an editor in my life.

1249
01:04:47,092 --> 01:04:50,679
What did your father
tell you about how to be a man?

1250
01:04:50,679 --> 01:04:53,682
25.
I've always been emotional.

1251
01:04:53,682 --> 01:04:57,769
I cried very easy as a child,
not from being hurt physically,

1252
01:04:57,769 --> 01:04:59,313
but mentally.

1253
01:04:59,313 --> 01:05:01,148
My father would sometimes
tell me to shut up,

1254
01:05:01,148 --> 01:05:03,233
and I tried, but it was hard.

1255
01:05:03,233 --> 01:05:05,027
I never was close
to my father.

1256
01:05:05,027 --> 01:05:07,904
We just discussed matters
of minor importance to us

1257
01:05:07,904 --> 01:05:11,199
like soccer results
and acts of the government.

1258
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:12,743
He was the hard parent.

1259
01:05:12,743 --> 01:05:16,204
And I respected him
and had fear of his anger.

1260
01:05:16,204 --> 01:05:19,333
No, I have never
cried myself to sleep.

1261
01:05:19,333 --> 01:05:22,169
But I've really felt
unloved and discarded.

1262
01:05:22,169 --> 01:05:24,129
{\an8}I have
felt rejected at times,

1263
01:05:24,129 --> 01:05:25,547
{\an8}but assuming
that I've been misjudged,

1264
01:05:25,547 --> 01:05:27,633
{\an8}I try not to take
the rejection to heart.

1265
01:05:27,633 --> 01:05:31,011
{\an8}After all, I can't be
more alone than I am now.

1266
01:05:31,011 --> 01:05:36,016
Over and over again,
they said the same thing.

1267
01:05:36,016 --> 01:05:38,560
We have no one to talk to.

1268
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:44,441
We can't share things
with people, even our wives.

1269
01:05:44,441 --> 01:05:47,569
I have no warmth
nor closeness in my life.

1270
01:05:47,569 --> 01:05:49,571
{\an8}The only feeling of warmth
that I get

1271
01:05:49,571 --> 01:05:53,950
{\an8}is when I'm through with work
and am free to do what I want.

1272
01:05:53,950 --> 01:05:56,745
We're isolated.

1273
01:05:56,745 --> 01:05:59,331
We assumed that, yeah,
our lives were difficult,

1274
01:05:59,331 --> 01:06:01,917
we had to work, but we were men,

1275
01:06:01,917 --> 01:06:04,836
we had women in our beds,
they were happy.

1276
01:06:04,836 --> 01:06:08,131
And then, all of a sudden,
a book comes out and says to us,

1277
01:06:08,131 --> 01:06:09,675
we're not happy.

1278
01:06:09,675 --> 01:06:12,094
Welcome to
"Leave It To the Women."

1279
01:06:12,094 --> 01:06:15,430
Today's panelists are
actor/male stripper John Gibson,

1280
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:19,184
actor Gil Gerard,
actor/writer Ron Masak,

1281
01:06:19,184 --> 01:06:21,645
and myself, Michael Conrad.

1282
01:06:21,645 --> 01:06:24,940
Here's our host,
Stephanie Edwards.

1283
01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:27,484
Shere Hite has joined us,
and we welcome you, Shere.

1284
01:06:27,484 --> 01:06:29,528
The author or the compiler
of the information in

1285
01:06:29,528 --> 01:06:31,571
"The Hite Report
on Male Sexuality."

1286
01:06:31,571 --> 01:06:33,281
- Welcome.
- Thank you.

1287
01:06:33,281 --> 01:06:37,119
The book did well, but not,
I think,

1288
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:38,662
as I thought it might do.

1289
01:06:38,662 --> 01:06:40,539
Did you recognize yourself
in this book at all?

1290
01:06:40,539 --> 01:06:42,374
I didn't, no,
as a matter of fact,

1291
01:06:42,374 --> 01:06:43,792
I would like to get to that.

1292
01:06:43,792 --> 01:06:45,210
I didn't recognize myself
into this book,

1293
01:06:45,210 --> 01:06:46,920
- or anybody that I know.
- No kidding?

1294
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,507
No, but I don't know
the 7,239 men.

1295
01:06:50,507 --> 01:06:52,134
- Did you see yourself at all,

1296
01:06:52,134 --> 01:06:53,552
the fellows who say

1297
01:06:53,552 --> 01:06:55,011
they feel as though
they must perform?

1298
01:06:55,011 --> 01:06:56,930
No, I have to say the majority
of the material

1299
01:06:56,930 --> 01:07:00,600
that I went over in the book
that I'm not familiar with.

1300
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,102
Really?
- No, I don't agree with a lot

1301
01:07:02,102 --> 01:07:03,687
of what she has to say.

1302
01:07:03,687 --> 01:07:06,481
Men weren't ready.
You can see it.

1303
01:07:06,481 --> 01:07:09,276
Not only don't they
understand intimacy,

1304
01:07:09,276 --> 01:07:10,736
they don't want
to know about it.

1305
01:07:10,736 --> 01:07:13,155
We'd like to ask you
before the men pounce

1306
01:07:13,155 --> 01:07:18,118
on what they've already heard,
what you found it meant

1307
01:07:18,118 --> 01:07:19,661
to be a man in our society,

1308
01:07:19,661 --> 01:07:22,581
from those who answered
your questionnaire?

1309
01:07:22,581 --> 01:07:24,833
I think it's difficult
for men to criticize

1310
01:07:24,833 --> 01:07:29,171
the idea of masculinity
because if a man criticizes

1311
01:07:29,171 --> 01:07:31,673
the idea of masculinity, whether
it's a sexual connotation,

1312
01:07:31,673 --> 01:07:34,134
or just what kind of
a job you have,

1313
01:07:34,134 --> 01:07:37,179
then he runs the risk of having
other men look down on him

1314
01:07:37,179 --> 01:07:39,765
and think that, "Well,
he can't make it as a man."

1315
01:07:39,765 --> 01:07:42,434
So it's very hard for men
to speak out about that.

1316
01:07:42,434 --> 01:07:43,810
I don't agree
with that at all.

1317
01:07:43,810 --> 01:07:45,395
What don't you agree with?

1318
01:07:45,395 --> 01:07:47,230
I don't agree with that at all,
that a man

1319
01:07:47,230 --> 01:07:49,775
can't speak out about the role
of what makes a man masculine

1320
01:07:49,775 --> 01:07:52,235
without other men
coming down on him about it.

1321
01:07:52,235 --> 01:07:53,695
I don't agree
with that at all.

1322
01:07:53,695 --> 01:07:55,530
No, I meant, I meant
he can't criticize...

1323
01:07:55,530 --> 01:07:57,282
Sure, he can.
- ...what he's supposed to be.

1324
01:07:57,282 --> 01:07:59,075
That's never been my experience
with anyone I've ever known.

1325
01:07:59,075 --> 01:08:03,121
I happen to agree
with Miss Hite in this respect.

1326
01:08:03,121 --> 01:08:05,499
When I was a boy, nobody cried.

1327
01:08:05,499 --> 01:08:10,045
I remember very clearly
running away from a man,

1328
01:08:10,045 --> 01:08:12,005
and I was caught,
I was the slowest.

1329
01:08:12,005 --> 01:08:14,090
And I was caught,
and he beat me up.

1330
01:08:14,090 --> 01:08:17,719
And I was crying.
And I walked up to the guys,

1331
01:08:17,719 --> 01:08:21,389
and they just looked at me
like I was dirt.

1332
01:08:21,389 --> 01:08:24,643
I didn't cry for 25 years
after that.

1333
01:08:24,643 --> 01:08:27,270
Now, what I'm concerned
with is what type of person

1334
01:08:27,270 --> 01:08:31,691
is going to stay home and answer
170 questions, essay format?

1335
01:08:31,691 --> 01:08:33,944
I mean, does that
give us a good...

1336
01:08:33,944 --> 01:08:36,238
Representation.
- ...representation of what

1337
01:08:36,238 --> 01:08:37,989
the male sexuality is all about?

1338
01:08:37,989 --> 01:08:39,324
I don't believe it does.

1339
01:08:39,324 --> 01:08:41,701
People criticized
her methodology

1340
01:08:41,701 --> 01:08:44,579
because they didn't understand
what it was,

1341
01:08:44,579 --> 01:08:47,541
and so they could
discount her findings.

1342
01:08:47,541 --> 01:08:51,127
72% of the men who were married
said they had had

1343
01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:53,964
extramarital affairs within
the first two years of marriage.

1344
01:08:53,964 --> 01:08:57,092
Gil has been married,
how many years?

1345
01:08:57,092 --> 01:08:59,427
Two years now.
Two years on October 20th.

1346
01:09:01,054 --> 01:09:03,265
And your wife is about to give
birth, even as we speak.

1347
01:09:03,265 --> 01:09:05,100
As we speak, yes.
Any second it can happen, yes.

1348
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:07,352
Did you recognize
yourself in here, Gil?

1349
01:09:07,352 --> 01:09:09,145
No, I didn't.

1350
01:09:09,145 --> 01:09:12,440
I didn't recognize myself nor
most of the people that I know.

1351
01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:14,276
I think that there must be
people out there

1352
01:09:14,276 --> 01:09:15,610
with these kinds of thoughts.

1353
01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:16,778
But have you read
the book?

1354
01:09:16,778 --> 01:09:18,446
I read some of it.

1355
01:09:18,446 --> 01:09:20,031
I skipped some. I didn't have
time to read, I guess.

1356
01:09:20,031 --> 01:09:21,616
They really weren't
paying attention

1357
01:09:21,616 --> 01:09:23,201
to reading the material.

1358
01:09:23,201 --> 01:09:25,370
They didn't really understand
the sophistication

1359
01:09:25,370 --> 01:09:27,706
of her methodology.

1360
01:09:27,706 --> 01:09:32,168
It was referred to continuously
that the 72% of these men...

1361
01:09:32,168 --> 01:09:33,837
Of married men.
- Well, of married men.

1362
01:09:33,837 --> 01:09:38,550
That's not right.
72% of the 7,239 men,

1363
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:43,680
which is only 6% of the 190,000
things she sent out.

1364
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,183
If I were doing a typical
sampling of muffins

1365
01:09:47,183 --> 01:09:48,768
in market research

1366
01:09:48,768 --> 01:09:51,563
on an essay-type distribution
the way I did it,

1367
01:09:51,563 --> 01:09:53,565
you would get about 2%
or 3% answering,

1368
01:09:53,565 --> 01:09:55,609
and that's considered
valid market research.

1369
01:09:55,609 --> 01:09:59,321
So out of maybe 400,000
questionnaires you sent out

1370
01:09:59,321 --> 01:10:01,156
to both female and male,

1371
01:10:01,156 --> 01:10:04,159
you're saying only 8%
of all of those people responded

1372
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:06,119
from which you have two books

1373
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:09,748
that are being considered
almost like

1374
01:10:09,748 --> 01:10:12,584
Kinsey's report
and Masters and Johnson,

1375
01:10:12,584 --> 01:10:14,836
an authority.

1376
01:10:14,836 --> 01:10:16,880
Masters and Johnson had
a total of 700 people.

1377
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,007
Kinsey had a total of 11,000.

1378
01:10:19,007 --> 01:10:20,467
But all we can do is try

1379
01:10:20,467 --> 01:10:22,677
and match it
to the population demographics.

1380
01:10:22,677 --> 01:10:24,888
She received
a tremendous amount of criticism

1381
01:10:24,888 --> 01:10:27,515
because they said
this is not a scientific study.

1382
01:10:27,515 --> 01:10:29,351
In the press, it's often said
that my work is,

1383
01:10:29,351 --> 01:10:32,812
quote, "unscientific," unquote,
which drives me crazy

1384
01:10:32,812 --> 01:10:35,899
because what they mean is,
is it representative?

1385
01:10:35,899 --> 01:10:37,776
"Scientific"
can mean many things.

1386
01:10:37,776 --> 01:10:40,070
There has never been a perfect
sample in sex research,

1387
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:41,905
and there won't be
for some time

1388
01:10:41,905 --> 01:10:44,658
because if you were going
to do a random sample,

1389
01:10:44,658 --> 01:10:45,992
most people wouldn't answer

1390
01:10:45,992 --> 01:10:47,702
because they wouldn't
be anonymous

1391
01:10:47,702 --> 01:10:49,162
and their names
would be known.

1392
01:10:49,162 --> 01:10:50,789
So of course,
they wouldn't answer.

1393
01:10:50,789 --> 01:10:54,542
I don't know anything
about methodology.

1394
01:10:54,542 --> 01:10:58,171
She got what she could
get out of it.

1395
01:10:58,171 --> 01:11:00,590
And it was effective.
And I think useful.

1396
01:11:00,590 --> 01:11:02,592
I just had to get back,
excuse me,

1397
01:11:02,592 --> 01:11:04,886
to this word "measure,"

1398
01:11:04,886 --> 01:11:07,889
because that's, pardon me,
a very male word.

1399
01:11:07,889 --> 01:11:09,766
And it's not a word
I would ever use.

1400
01:11:09,766 --> 01:11:12,560
And I don't wish to measure men.

1401
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,771
What I'm trying to do
is provide a forum

1402
01:11:14,771 --> 01:11:17,440
in which men can see
how many other men feel.

1403
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:19,234
"Measure" is a very male word?

1404
01:11:19,234 --> 01:11:20,735
Perhaps not all men,

1405
01:11:20,735 --> 01:11:23,279
but it's a forum
in which men can talk.

1406
01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:24,572
And they can talk to each other,

1407
01:11:24,572 --> 01:11:26,282
and they can talk
to other women.

1408
01:11:26,282 --> 01:11:29,202
But I'm not trying to say
that you should be this way

1409
01:11:29,202 --> 01:11:30,912
or you should be that way,

1410
01:11:30,912 --> 01:11:32,580
and, if you're not, there's
something wrong with you.

1411
01:11:32,580 --> 01:11:35,250
That's the very antithesis
of what I'm doing.

1412
01:11:35,250 --> 01:11:38,878
They just were vehement,
and they wrote incredibly

1413
01:11:38,878 --> 01:11:42,173
nasty letters to Shere,
and she got phone calls.

1414
01:11:44,843 --> 01:11:47,095
{\an8}She didn't understand why
this book

1415
01:11:47,095 --> 01:11:51,141
{\an8}was the object of scorn
and hatred.

1416
01:11:51,599 --> 01:11:54,102
I felt naked, scrutinized.

1417
01:11:54,102 --> 01:11:56,938
So many inaccurate things
and strange things

1418
01:11:56,938 --> 01:11:59,983
were being said
about me in the press.

1419
01:12:01,317 --> 01:12:04,237
As a model, I had always made it
a point of honor

1420
01:12:04,237 --> 01:12:06,448
to use my own full name.

1421
01:12:06,448 --> 01:12:08,742
It was discovered that I had
been featured in the nude

1422
01:12:08,742 --> 01:12:11,911
in <i>Playboy</i>
several years earlier.

1423
01:12:15,874 --> 01:12:19,377
Photographed for <i>Playboy</i>
meant immediate disrespect

1424
01:12:19,377 --> 01:12:21,755
and disregard for my work.

1425
01:12:21,755 --> 01:12:23,715
I couldn't be a good researcher

1426
01:12:23,715 --> 01:12:27,927
{\an8}because I was "just a bimbo
who had posed nude."

1427
01:12:39,814 --> 01:12:41,357
{\an8}
Did you have another comment?

1428
01:12:41,357 --> 01:12:43,193
{\an8}Oh, no.
I just had one other question.

1429
01:12:43,193 --> 01:12:46,446
{\an8}I remember some years ago
there was a profile done on you.

1430
01:12:46,446 --> 01:12:48,782
{\an8}And I think it was
<i>Playboy</i> magazine.

1431
01:12:48,782 --> 01:12:51,117
{\an8}- And they had some...
- A profile?

1432
01:12:51,117 --> 01:12:52,410
Well...

1433
01:12:53,703 --> 01:12:55,789
Hate to hear
about this whole thing.

1434
01:12:57,874 --> 01:12:59,876
It was some-- there were
some semi-nude photographs.

1435
01:12:59,876 --> 01:13:02,837
- Ah.
- And I was just wondering...

1436
01:13:02,837 --> 01:13:04,547
It's not that
she didn't expect it.

1437
01:13:04,547 --> 01:13:07,884
I think she didn't expect it
to persist the way it did.

1438
01:13:07,884 --> 01:13:10,804
I think she thought eventually
this will just blow over

1439
01:13:10,804 --> 01:13:13,723
and they'll move on
to the next target.

1440
01:13:13,723 --> 01:13:15,850
But she stayed a target
for a long time.

1441
01:13:15,850 --> 01:13:18,311
I was just wondering
what were those frilly

1442
01:13:18,311 --> 01:13:20,230
green things
that you were wearing?

1443
01:13:21,773 --> 01:13:23,399
The frilly green things?

1444
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:26,528
I guess you had to be there
just to know, you know?

1445
01:13:26,528 --> 01:13:29,322
- I guess so.
- I guess so.

1446
01:13:30,865 --> 01:13:33,368
Well, did you have
another question about that?

1447
01:13:33,368 --> 01:13:35,161
No, that's it.

1448
01:13:35,161 --> 01:13:38,206
Plan for not being
a stereotyped creation

1449
01:13:38,206 --> 01:13:39,582
of your society.

1450
01:13:39,582 --> 01:13:43,128
Number one,
spend three days alone.

1451
01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:49,551
Number two,
take yourself seriously.

1452
01:13:51,052 --> 01:13:53,555
Number three,
whenever caught in a situation

1453
01:13:53,555 --> 01:13:56,641
where you are made to feel
girlish and helpless,

1454
01:13:56,641 --> 01:13:58,059
bitchy and aggressive,

1455
01:13:58,059 --> 01:14:00,520
or any other stereotype,
leave immediately

1456
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,482
and do any action
which you enjoy and is yours.

1457
01:14:27,755 --> 01:14:30,216
Number four,
rely on your own

1458
01:14:30,216 --> 01:14:34,012
financial resources
at all times.

1459
01:14:37,182 --> 01:14:40,894
{\an8}Shere had to sue Macmillan
to get her full earnings.

1460
01:14:40,894 --> 01:14:43,563
{\an8}They had put a limit
on the amount of income

1461
01:14:43,563 --> 01:14:45,440
{\an8}she could get per year.

1462
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:49,235
{\an8}It's a tax-free,
interest-free, eternal loan.

1463
01:14:49,235 --> 01:14:53,198
{\an8}Here I am, me, propping up
this stupid company.

1464
01:14:53,198 --> 01:14:56,826
There was a settlement,
and she was given a payout.

1465
01:14:56,826 --> 01:14:59,996
All of a sudden,
she had $250,000,

1466
01:14:59,996 --> 01:15:02,457
so she wanted to buy a place.

1467
01:15:02,457 --> 01:15:04,834
And she was so excited.

1468
01:15:08,588 --> 01:15:10,757
{\an8}I bought an apartment.

1469
01:15:14,510 --> 01:15:16,095
I was the first tenant,

1470
01:15:16,095 --> 01:15:19,933
what used to be the Heart Fund
building on Fifth Avenue

1471
01:15:19,933 --> 01:15:22,101
and 64th Street.

1472
01:15:22,101 --> 01:15:26,314
As I was passing through
the lobby and her door was open,

1473
01:15:26,314 --> 01:15:29,484
I don't remember if I said,
"Shere Hite,"

1474
01:15:29,484 --> 01:15:31,152
or if she said, "Gene."

1475
01:15:31,152 --> 01:15:32,987
{\an8}What do you do?
I stick my tongue out.

1476
01:15:32,987 --> 01:15:34,948
{\an8}What do you do?
I'm writing a book.

1477
01:15:34,948 --> 01:15:36,991
She invited me in to say,
"Hey, come on in.

1478
01:15:36,991 --> 01:15:39,410
Let me show you where I live."

1479
01:15:43,122 --> 01:15:48,002
Shere wound up taking the first
unit on the first floor facing

1480
01:15:48,002 --> 01:15:49,837
Fifth Avenue.

1481
01:15:49,837 --> 01:15:53,967
It could have been
a small palazzo in Europe

1482
01:15:53,967 --> 01:15:57,637
with beautiful vases and
art pieces all over the place.

1483
01:15:57,637 --> 01:15:59,639
Very ornate.

1484
01:15:59,639 --> 01:16:02,976
Both of us had a love
of the decorative arts,

1485
01:16:02,976 --> 01:16:06,980
surrounding ourselves
with beautiful things.

1486
01:16:06,980 --> 01:16:10,525
It gave us relief
from the heavy workloads

1487
01:16:10,525 --> 01:16:12,944
that we both had.

1488
01:16:12,944 --> 01:16:14,445
I needed beauty around me

1489
01:16:14,445 --> 01:16:19,200
{\an8}to forget painful images
seen in the press.

1490
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,830
Number five,
enjoy yourself a lot.

1491
01:16:28,793 --> 01:16:31,087
{\an8}I had lots of parties.

1492
01:16:33,548 --> 01:16:35,591
So, you couldn't come
to my Valentine's party?

1493
01:16:35,591 --> 01:16:37,051
No, I would've loved to...

1494
01:16:37,051 --> 01:16:39,262
She just invited
a whole range of people.

1495
01:16:39,262 --> 01:16:40,972
I remember women from Coyote,

1496
01:16:40,972 --> 01:16:43,391
which was a prostitutes'
rights organization.

1497
01:16:43,391 --> 01:16:45,268
Flo Kennedy.
Swifty Lazar.

1498
01:16:45,268 --> 01:16:47,562
I was there,
with my new wife, Sybil.

1499
01:16:47,562 --> 01:16:49,147
Julien, the night doorman.

1500
01:16:49,147 --> 01:16:52,233
There were people
of all different walks of life.

1501
01:16:56,446 --> 01:16:59,032
Sometimes I'd come in
late from the studio or on tour,

1502
01:16:59,032 --> 01:17:00,867
and the door would be open.

1503
01:17:00,867 --> 01:17:02,243
We palled around.

1504
01:17:02,243 --> 01:17:03,911
Donna Summer is downstairs.

1505
01:17:03,911 --> 01:17:05,496
"Oh, Donna, what are you
doing here?"

1506
01:17:05,496 --> 01:17:07,081
"I just moved in here."

1507
01:17:07,081 --> 01:17:10,209
"Oh, really? I'm up on top.
"Hey, come on over."

1508
01:17:10,209 --> 01:17:12,920
She was curious about
this rock star thing

1509
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:14,380
and the sexuality there.

1510
01:17:14,380 --> 01:17:17,008
"What you do?
And why do you do it?"

1511
01:17:18,718 --> 01:17:20,136
Shere was inquisitive.

1512
01:17:20,136 --> 01:17:22,096
Most people when they ask
you questions,

1513
01:17:22,096 --> 01:17:24,307
don't follow it up with, why?

1514
01:17:24,307 --> 01:17:27,727
And it makes you sort of...

1515
01:17:27,727 --> 01:17:29,520
"Yeah, why?"

1516
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,147
She chose that part
of New York,

1517
01:17:31,147 --> 01:17:35,193
the creative side
and the movement side.

1518
01:17:41,532 --> 01:17:44,702
♪ Happy birthday to me,
happy birthday to me ♪

1519
01:17:44,702 --> 01:17:48,539
And so on her birthday,
heavily attended by New York's

1520
01:17:48,539 --> 01:17:49,957
radical chic crowd...

1521
01:17:49,957 --> 01:17:51,459
Did you see what
Shere gave me?

1522
01:17:51,459 --> 01:17:53,961
Isn't it fabulous?
I can't get over it.

1523
01:17:53,961 --> 01:17:55,546
It's so beautiful.

1524
01:17:55,546 --> 01:17:58,216
...Flo trots out her
defense of prostitutes

1525
01:17:58,216 --> 01:17:59,842
with a little ditty.

1526
01:17:59,842 --> 01:18:06,140
♪ Everybody needs a hooker
once in a while ♪

1527
01:18:06,140 --> 01:18:07,809
Shere was
forward thinking.

1528
01:18:07,809 --> 01:18:11,854
It helps, I believe, to come
from a small town

1529
01:18:11,854 --> 01:18:13,981
and then see a difference.

1530
01:18:13,981 --> 01:18:15,983
New York, you've got room
to breathe

1531
01:18:15,983 --> 01:18:17,527
and you can weave and dodge,

1532
01:18:17,527 --> 01:18:19,404
and there's a lot
of other people in the way.

1533
01:18:19,404 --> 01:18:24,367
You have a better chance
of developing your own soul

1534
01:18:24,367 --> 01:18:27,328
and becoming whoever you want.

1535
01:18:28,830 --> 01:18:31,082
I was working
at the <i>Village Voice.</i>

1536
01:18:31,082 --> 01:18:34,460
{\an8}We met 'cause
I photographed her.

1537
01:18:34,460 --> 01:18:38,089
I loved her style.
I loved the way she dressed.

1538
01:18:39,048 --> 01:18:42,176
I could also tell
that she loved working.

1539
01:18:42,176 --> 01:18:45,263
And so, I think I was
kind of standing back.

1540
01:18:45,263 --> 01:18:47,014
I was showing the way
she worked more than

1541
01:18:47,014 --> 01:18:50,101
I was showing
her personality.

1542
01:18:50,101 --> 01:18:53,813
It was as if I couldn't
quite get near her.

1543
01:18:53,813 --> 01:18:57,692
And then I saw a picture of her
as a child, and I said,

1544
01:18:57,692 --> 01:19:01,404
"Can I take a picture
of this picture?"

1545
01:19:03,573 --> 01:19:07,869
She looks like she's about
6 or 7,

1546
01:19:07,869 --> 01:19:11,497
but she looks extremely
self-possessed.

1547
01:19:11,497 --> 01:19:15,418
And I thought, this child
looked very lonely.

1548
01:19:17,211 --> 01:19:19,046
And as I got to know her,

1549
01:19:19,046 --> 01:19:22,800
I found out
that the child was lonely.

1550
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:25,553
I grew up in a very small town

1551
01:19:25,553 --> 01:19:29,140
and was very much
of a churchgoer.

1552
01:19:29,765 --> 01:19:32,268
I grew up with my grandparents,
so it was

1553
01:19:32,268 --> 01:19:37,273
an even older generation
than normally would have been.

1554
01:19:39,442 --> 01:19:43,821
There was no discussion of sex
or menstruation

1555
01:19:43,821 --> 01:19:45,323
or anything like that.

1556
01:19:45,323 --> 01:19:49,744
Just a discussion that you had
to get married

1557
01:19:49,744 --> 01:19:52,205
and men married nice girls,

1558
01:19:52,205 --> 01:19:54,624
and you should always do
what you should.

1559
01:19:54,624 --> 01:19:56,250
She was reluctant to talk
about it,

1560
01:19:56,250 --> 01:19:57,793
and I had to ask her about it,

1561
01:19:57,793 --> 01:19:59,962
and she was still reluctant
to talk about it.

1562
01:19:59,962 --> 01:20:03,758
{\an8}Mother and father.

1563
01:20:03,758 --> 01:20:06,719
{\an8}I was a mistake.

1564
01:20:06,719 --> 01:20:10,014
{\an8}He left after a year or so.

1565
01:20:10,014 --> 01:20:12,266
{\an8}She was just out of high school.

1566
01:20:12,266 --> 01:20:15,937
{\an8}I was a hindrance and made her
too old,

1567
01:20:15,937 --> 01:20:17,939
{\an8}a nuisance and in the way.

1568
01:20:17,939 --> 01:20:19,649
{\an8}Worthless.

1569
01:20:19,649 --> 01:20:22,568
{\an8}A piece of garbage.

1570
01:20:22,568 --> 01:20:24,403
{\an8}Then she left.

1571
01:20:33,162 --> 01:20:36,082
{\an8}How would you define love?

1572
01:20:36,082 --> 01:20:39,460
{\an8}Is it the thing you work at
for a long period of time?

1573
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:42,505
{\an8}Or is it the strong feeling
you feel for someone,

1574
01:20:42,505 --> 01:20:45,591
right from the beginning,
for no known reason?

1575
01:20:47,426 --> 01:20:49,512
Does the relationship fill
your deepest

1576
01:20:49,512 --> 01:20:53,266
needs for closeness
with another person?

1577
01:20:53,266 --> 01:20:57,395
Or do you prefer not to share
every part of yourself?

1578
01:20:57,395 --> 01:21:01,482
She could come off
as being a bit cold.

1579
01:21:01,482 --> 01:21:03,526
One reason I liked
photographing her

1580
01:21:03,526 --> 01:21:07,822
was that I was sort of
breaking the image.

1581
01:21:07,822 --> 01:21:11,450
Obviously, image was
very important to her.

1582
01:21:11,450 --> 01:21:15,871
I was hoping to make her
feel comfortable in her skin.

1583
01:21:16,747 --> 01:21:22,628
But she carried the weight
of the criticism all the time.

1584
01:21:23,588 --> 01:21:27,592
I wanted her to be
happier than she was.

1585
01:21:35,224 --> 01:21:39,395
Shere had clearly
invented Shere Hite.

1586
01:21:39,395 --> 01:21:42,356
A lot of people simply
couldn't take her seriously

1587
01:21:42,356 --> 01:21:44,609
because of the way
she presented herself,

1588
01:21:44,609 --> 01:21:50,197
but presenting herself
that way was who she was.

1589
01:21:51,198 --> 01:21:56,912
That was really important to her
to be the <i>Playboy</i> girl

1590
01:21:56,912 --> 01:22:00,458
while working for a PhD.

1591
01:22:00,458 --> 01:22:02,460
She needed to see herself
that way.

1592
01:22:02,460 --> 01:22:05,129
We all need to see ourselves
in certain ways.

1593
01:22:05,129 --> 01:22:10,217
But partly because of her
flamboyance, people noticed.

1594
01:22:10,217 --> 01:22:13,346
She wanted to be seen.

1595
01:22:15,556 --> 01:22:17,808
New York,
summer 1988,

1596
01:22:17,808 --> 01:22:21,479
Horicke and Hite in their
apartment on Fifth Avenue.

1597
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,357
Three years ago,
the German-born concert pianist

1598
01:22:24,357 --> 01:22:27,652
and the best-selling writer
were married.

1599
01:22:35,368 --> 01:22:37,912
Shere Hite's books
have sold five million copies.

1600
01:22:37,912 --> 01:22:40,414
They've been translated
into 14 languages

1601
01:22:40,414 --> 01:22:43,459
and banned in eight countries.

1602
01:22:43,459 --> 01:22:45,002
Hite's latest book,

1603
01:22:45,002 --> 01:22:47,630
"Women and Love,"
caused a flurry of news stories

1604
01:22:47,630 --> 01:22:49,924
{\an8}weeks before the book
even hits the stores.

1605
01:22:49,924 --> 01:22:51,425
You may have read about it,

1606
01:22:51,425 --> 01:22:53,052
and perhaps
even argued about it.

1607
01:22:53,052 --> 01:22:55,763
And even though today is
its official publication date,

1608
01:22:55,763 --> 01:22:59,934
it has already been widely
endorsed and widely criticized.

1609
01:22:59,934 --> 01:23:03,062
The press conference
was on the day

1610
01:23:03,062 --> 01:23:05,272
that the book went on sale.

1611
01:23:05,272 --> 01:23:07,608
{\an8}It was a packed house.

1612
01:23:07,608 --> 01:23:09,485
{\an8}I thought, "Wow,
this is really terrific.

1613
01:23:09,485 --> 01:23:11,487
All these people want
to hear Shere."

1614
01:23:11,487 --> 01:23:13,614
And then I heard some of
the people say,

1615
01:23:13,614 --> 01:23:15,616
"Well, they want to see
what she's gonna do.

1616
01:23:15,616 --> 01:23:17,993
She's difficult,
and she's just weird."

1617
01:23:19,370 --> 01:23:21,872
Good morning.
Thank you for coming.

1618
01:23:26,252 --> 01:23:30,506
Doing this study, I realized
that when women talk about love,

1619
01:23:30,506 --> 01:23:33,300
it's much more
than talking about love.

1620
01:23:33,300 --> 01:23:35,511
You know, love has been
trivialized for so long

1621
01:23:35,511 --> 01:23:38,806
and how women feel about love
has been trivialized.

1622
01:23:38,806 --> 01:23:40,725
It isn't trivial.

1623
01:23:42,143 --> 01:23:44,520
Number 19.
How would you define love?

1624
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:47,606
Oh, gracious, Shere.

1625
01:23:47,606 --> 01:23:49,066
It was
an excellent feeling,

1626
01:23:49,066 --> 01:23:52,111
and then again, it was
a very anxious feeling,

1627
01:23:52,111 --> 01:23:53,487
a vulnerable feeling.

1628
01:23:53,487 --> 01:23:56,115
My heart could be broken
at any time.

1629
01:23:56,115 --> 01:23:58,701
{\an8}I don't even know if
I'm capable of it at this point.

1630
01:23:58,701 --> 01:24:00,661
{\an8}I've just had so many
bad relationships.

1631
01:24:00,661 --> 01:24:03,414
I don't think they've had
anything to do with love.

1632
01:24:03,414 --> 01:24:05,958
I'm in love
with my children.

1633
01:24:05,958 --> 01:24:08,669
I don't think I'm in love
with my husband.

1634
01:24:08,669 --> 01:24:10,588
{\an8}I could never
really communicate with him.

1635
01:24:10,588 --> 01:24:12,673
{\an8}I could never really share
with him.

1636
01:24:12,673 --> 01:24:15,176
{\an8}My lover hit me
because I pulled the covers

1637
01:24:15,176 --> 01:24:16,886
{\an8}off of him at night.

1638
01:24:16,886 --> 01:24:19,430
{\an8}If I didn't fill up the ice
cube trays all the way up,

1639
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:21,724
{\an8}he would scream at me.

1640
01:24:21,724 --> 01:24:24,935
{\an8}I have had
an extramarital affair.

1641
01:24:24,935 --> 01:24:31,275
I was looking for re-affirmation
of myself as a woman.

1642
01:24:31,776 --> 01:24:34,195
{\an8}I had sex outside
of my marriage,

1643
01:24:34,195 --> 01:24:37,865
{\an8}wanting to test my real capacity
for love.

1644
01:24:37,865 --> 01:24:39,658
The great majority
of women are saying

1645
01:24:39,658 --> 01:24:41,619
that they're frustrated
and dissatisfied

1646
01:24:41,619 --> 01:24:43,788
with their relationships
with men emotionally.

1647
01:24:43,788 --> 01:24:45,706
They want things
to be different.

1648
01:24:45,706 --> 01:24:48,793
{\an8}And they've been trying and
trying to get that to happen,

1649
01:24:48,793 --> 01:24:51,670
{\an8}but aren't having a whole lot
of success with it.

1650
01:24:51,670 --> 01:24:53,589
{\an8}The most
startling statistic,

1651
01:24:53,589 --> 01:24:57,468
{\an8}Hite says 70% of women
married more than five years

1652
01:24:57,468 --> 01:25:00,471
{\an8}say they are having
extramarital affairs.

1653
01:25:00,471 --> 01:25:02,473
{\an8}
When "Women and Love" came out,

1654
01:25:02,473 --> 01:25:07,061
I remember being called
into my boss's office.

1655
01:25:07,061 --> 01:25:08,562
He knew that I knew Shere.

1656
01:25:08,562 --> 01:25:11,148
He said, "Have you seen
this book?"

1657
01:25:11,148 --> 01:25:12,608
I said, "Yes."

1658
01:25:12,608 --> 01:25:14,568
He said, "Have you read it?"
I said, "Yes."

1659
01:25:14,568 --> 01:25:17,655
He said, "This book
is preposterous."

1660
01:25:17,655 --> 01:25:20,699
I said, "Well, Shere wrote
a book about men,

1661
01:25:20,699 --> 01:25:23,911
and men were unfaithful
to their wives

1662
01:25:23,911 --> 01:25:25,329
in the first five years,

1663
01:25:25,329 --> 01:25:27,790
and no one was shocked
by that statistic.

1664
01:25:27,790 --> 01:25:30,835
Who do you think
they were sleeping with?"

1665
01:25:30,835 --> 01:25:38,592
His jaw fell because
her implications

1666
01:25:38,592 --> 01:25:42,012
made him have to think
about his marriage now.

1667
01:25:42,012 --> 01:25:45,224
The wedding day, promises
of a long and faithful life

1668
01:25:45,224 --> 01:25:47,184
together from the happy couple.

1669
01:25:47,184 --> 01:25:50,396
But according to a book about
to be published in America,

1670
01:25:50,396 --> 01:25:53,232
it's a dream
that rarely comes true.

1671
01:25:53,232 --> 01:25:54,733
A new survey of American woman

1672
01:25:54,733 --> 01:25:57,027
has come up
with some troubling results.

1673
01:25:57,027 --> 01:25:59,905
{\an8}Shere Hite says
that only 13% of women

1674
01:25:59,905 --> 01:26:03,117
{\an8}married more than two years
are in love with their husbands.

1675
01:26:03,117 --> 01:26:07,538
{\an8}To find out
that this was a two-way street

1676
01:26:07,538 --> 01:26:09,790
{\an8}was just too much
for many of them to handle.

1677
01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:11,917
{\an8}I call "The Hite Report"
the Hate Report

1678
01:26:11,917 --> 01:26:14,795
{\an8}because it really is filled
with a lot of hate toward men.

1679
01:26:14,795 --> 01:26:18,632
{\an8}It's some interesting gossipy
stuff about people's lives,

1680
01:26:18,632 --> 01:26:20,551
{\an8}but a study it ain't.

1681
01:26:20,551 --> 01:26:23,512
{\an8}I believe her questionnaire
is as biased

1682
01:26:23,512 --> 01:26:25,139
{\an8}as any questionnaire can be.

1683
01:26:25,139 --> 01:26:27,641
{\an8}When you have pages and pages
and pages of statistics,

1684
01:26:27,641 --> 01:26:29,685
no matter what you say
in the body of it,

1685
01:26:29,685 --> 01:26:32,938
it acts as if it's science
and it's not science.

1686
01:26:32,938 --> 01:26:36,567
It is a scientific sample
and a scientific study.

1687
01:26:36,567 --> 01:26:40,487
Where she stuck her
neck out is to say that

1688
01:26:40,487 --> 01:26:43,240
her research is scientific.

1689
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:44,992
For Shere, this mattered.

1690
01:26:44,992 --> 01:26:46,827
The reporter,
David Streitfeld,

1691
01:26:46,827 --> 01:26:48,495
interviewed quite
a lot of people

1692
01:26:48,495 --> 01:26:50,289
about Shere Hite and her book.

1693
01:26:50,289 --> 01:26:51,916
One professor put it this way.

1694
01:26:51,916 --> 01:26:55,127
"Hite does not report
how many people answered

1695
01:26:55,127 --> 01:26:56,712
each of her questions.

1696
01:26:56,712 --> 01:26:59,924
So, I can't tell whether she
means 70% of 1,000 women

1697
01:26:59,924 --> 01:27:03,969
or 70% of 10 women, so
the statistic is meaningless."

1698
01:27:03,969 --> 01:27:07,389
The ABC News/Washington Post
poll decided to conduct

1699
01:27:07,389 --> 01:27:11,518
a scientific telephone survey
of 1,500 men and women

1700
01:27:11,518 --> 01:27:15,022
over age 18
in a nationwide random sample.

1701
01:27:15,022 --> 01:27:17,691
The idea was to determine
if the trends

1702
01:27:17,691 --> 01:27:20,110
Hite found could be confirmed.

1703
01:27:20,110 --> 01:27:21,487
They were not.

1704
01:27:21,487 --> 01:27:22,863
We presented Shere Hite

1705
01:27:22,863 --> 01:27:24,782
with our findings
during an interview.

1706
01:27:24,782 --> 01:27:26,700
After looking over
the statistics,

1707
01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:30,079
she had this reaction
to the numbers on infidelity.

1708
01:27:30,079 --> 01:27:33,582
You call me on the phone,
you think I'm gonna tell you?

1709
01:27:33,582 --> 01:27:36,877
You've got to be joking.

1710
01:27:36,877 --> 01:27:41,173
I always thought she fought
too hard with her adversaries.

1711
01:27:41,173 --> 01:27:44,593
She may have been better off
just saying to them,

1712
01:27:44,593 --> 01:27:46,804
"The work speaks for itself."

1713
01:27:46,804 --> 01:27:51,767
This is a creative project,
which develops as it goes.

1714
01:27:51,767 --> 01:27:53,811
She was very sensitive
to criticism,

1715
01:27:53,811 --> 01:27:56,063
and that was maybe
her Achilles heel.

1716
01:27:56,063 --> 01:27:59,149
Today, the author
of this much publicized book

1717
01:27:59,149 --> 01:28:04,738
has agreed to face an audience
filled entirely with men,

1718
01:28:04,738 --> 01:28:06,407
except for me.

1719
01:28:06,407 --> 01:28:07,992
Hi, everybody.

1720
01:28:07,992 --> 01:28:09,910
When she learned
that she was going to be dealing

1721
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:12,788
with an all-male audience,
Shere asked me to come with her

1722
01:28:12,788 --> 01:28:15,082
to provide her
some moral support.

1723
01:28:15,082 --> 01:28:18,961
I wasn't allowed to be in the
audience, but I was backstage.

1724
01:28:18,961 --> 01:28:21,505
What your study does is say
that all the problems,

1725
01:28:21,505 --> 01:28:25,801
everything that's wrong with
relationships, is men's fault.

1726
01:28:25,801 --> 01:28:27,511
You guys are the guilty ones.

1727
01:28:27,511 --> 01:28:28,762
And I'm saying we're all guilty.

1728
01:28:28,762 --> 01:28:30,431
It's society as a whole.

1729
01:28:30,431 --> 01:28:32,016
This whole idea that somehow

1730
01:28:32,016 --> 01:28:33,976
it's an equal problem,
it's not quite so simple.

1731
01:28:33,976 --> 01:28:36,061
Look at our body language,
it's very different.

1732
01:28:36,061 --> 01:28:38,897
You live in a world in which
power gives you the right

1733
01:28:38,897 --> 01:28:41,942
to sit with your legs apart,
and you go like this.

1734
01:28:41,942 --> 01:28:43,610
And you're going like this.

1735
01:28:43,610 --> 01:28:44,945
Now look at me,
I'm sitting here like this,

1736
01:28:44,945 --> 01:28:47,239
because I think
there's a big difference

1737
01:28:47,239 --> 01:28:48,615
between men and women.

1738
01:28:48,615 --> 01:28:49,658
No way.
- Come on.

1739
01:28:49,658 --> 01:28:51,118
Yes, sir.

1740
01:28:51,118 --> 01:28:52,995
Yes, you know,
this is the first time

1741
01:28:52,995 --> 01:28:54,496
I've ever heard
that being able to sit

1742
01:28:54,496 --> 01:28:55,831
with your legs split
is a privilege.

1743
01:28:55,831 --> 01:28:58,125
Well, you've now heard it.

1744
01:28:58,125 --> 01:28:59,585
You've now heard it.

1745
01:28:59,585 --> 01:29:01,170
Shere's report
is flawed extensively.

1746
01:29:01,170 --> 01:29:03,797
Only 5% of the people
that she sent a report to

1747
01:29:03,797 --> 01:29:05,632
would even respond to her.

1748
01:29:05,632 --> 01:29:07,134
And she only asked women.

1749
01:29:07,134 --> 01:29:08,552
{\an8}Why didn't she ask any men...

1750
01:29:08,552 --> 01:29:10,679
{\an8}- Where's Janet?
- ...what they thought?

1751
01:29:10,679 --> 01:29:12,806
I was able to go in
in between breaks.

1752
01:29:12,806 --> 01:29:15,059
I would just keep reinforcing
the fact that

1753
01:29:15,059 --> 01:29:17,519
although it would
have been preferable

1754
01:29:17,519 --> 01:29:19,146
if they had read the book

1755
01:29:19,146 --> 01:29:22,858
and given her positive
feedback on it, they didn't.

1756
01:29:22,858 --> 01:29:24,610
Did you see the report
she did on men?

1757
01:29:24,610 --> 01:29:26,487
I've only been aware
of this report,

1758
01:29:26,487 --> 01:29:29,114
and everything I've heard
about her has been negative.

1759
01:29:29,114 --> 01:29:30,824
- Okay--
- She's only looking at one side,

1760
01:29:30,824 --> 01:29:32,284
the side that she chooses
to look at.

1761
01:29:32,284 --> 01:29:34,203
I think, first of all,
that a lot of people

1762
01:29:34,203 --> 01:29:36,872
who criticize the book
haven't even read the book.

1763
01:29:36,872 --> 01:29:40,834
And I would like to stop,
for whatever reason,

1764
01:29:40,834 --> 01:29:43,504
discussing how flawed
the statistics are,

1765
01:29:43,504 --> 01:29:46,965
how many people responded,
because the truth of the matter

1766
01:29:46,965 --> 01:29:50,135
is whether 4,000
or 50,000 responded,

1767
01:29:50,135 --> 01:29:51,678
nobody can deny
that there's a problem.

1768
01:29:51,678 --> 01:29:53,180
That's what we want
to talk about,

1769
01:29:53,180 --> 01:29:54,973
is the fact
that there's a problem.

1770
01:29:54,973 --> 01:29:56,809
When I've been in relationships,
the women, instead of

1771
01:29:56,809 --> 01:29:59,228
communicating and saying there's
something wrong, what they do is

1772
01:29:59,228 --> 01:30:01,063
they pout and they don't want to
tell you what the problem is.

1773
01:30:01,063 --> 01:30:03,023
And I think that we just need
to communicate more.

1774
01:30:03,023 --> 01:30:04,858
Well, you have a whole
book of women telling what's

1775
01:30:04,858 --> 01:30:08,237
the problem, and men are
reacting like they'd been shot,

1776
01:30:08,237 --> 01:30:12,866
or they're reacting with
total terror or total outrage.

1777
01:30:12,866 --> 01:30:15,994
What I'm complaining about
is the general approach

1778
01:30:15,994 --> 01:30:19,665
to this whole program, which
started back with women's lib.

1779
01:30:19,665 --> 01:30:21,542
And since then, men have
been murdered

1780
01:30:21,542 --> 01:30:23,001
and gotten away with it.

1781
01:30:23,001 --> 01:30:24,419
We have had our children
taken away from us,

1782
01:30:24,419 --> 01:30:26,088
we've had our homes
taken away from us,

1783
01:30:26,088 --> 01:30:28,048
and we've had our jobs
taken away from us.

1784
01:30:28,048 --> 01:30:30,884
Let women have 47%
of the labor force,

1785
01:30:30,884 --> 01:30:32,386
but I don't want to hear you

1786
01:30:32,386 --> 01:30:34,763
complaining about it,
you started the program.

1787
01:30:38,350 --> 01:30:40,561
You all who are applauding,
you sound angry. You're angry...

1788
01:30:40,561 --> 01:30:44,398
We went to Oprah's
favorite thrift shop afterward

1789
01:30:44,398 --> 01:30:48,402
to sort of cleanse ourselves of

1790
01:30:48,402 --> 01:30:52,281
the nasty words
that had been thrown around.

1791
01:31:00,873 --> 01:31:03,083
I think the years and years
and years of her

1792
01:31:03,083 --> 01:31:06,044
working on these projects,
the amount of effort it took,

1793
01:31:06,044 --> 01:31:10,257
and then to get this kind of
treatment from so many people,

1794
01:31:10,257 --> 01:31:13,010
it just was like someone
stabbed me in the back again

1795
01:31:13,010 --> 01:31:17,347
and again and again and again
until she reached the end of it.

1796
01:31:23,770 --> 01:31:25,439
Yes, you're very pretty.

1797
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:29,943
You're the prettiest
little thing I ever saw.

1798
01:31:29,943 --> 01:31:32,154
Sally Jessy Raphael had a show

1799
01:31:32,154 --> 01:31:34,114
that was very popular
at the time.

1800
01:31:34,114 --> 01:31:39,077
It was a really big deal
to actually book her show.

1801
01:31:39,077 --> 01:31:42,748
The morning that she was
supposed to be doing it,

1802
01:31:42,748 --> 01:31:45,000
the limo driver was there
to pick her up,

1803
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:47,961
and she wasn't quite ready yet.

1804
01:31:47,961 --> 01:31:50,797
I went to pick up
Miss Hite yesterday morning

1805
01:31:50,797 --> 01:31:53,217
to take her back
to New Haven for her taping.

1806
01:31:53,217 --> 01:31:55,969
Frank says
he waited and waited.

1807
01:31:55,969 --> 01:31:58,096
She kept him waiting for so long

1808
01:31:58,096 --> 01:32:00,933
that they said, "Okay, well,
we no longer can do a live show.

1809
01:32:00,933 --> 01:32:03,060
We're now going to have
to do a taped."

1810
01:32:03,060 --> 01:32:05,520
And then it got so late
that they said,

1811
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,189
"Okay, just forget it."

1812
01:32:07,189 --> 01:32:08,982
So, I walked across the street
and to tell her that,

1813
01:32:08,982 --> 01:32:10,692
"I'm sorry, dear.

1814
01:32:10,692 --> 01:32:12,402
I can't take you back with me,
I'm gonna leave alone."

1815
01:32:12,402 --> 01:32:13,987
Those were your words,
"I'm sorry, dear?"

1816
01:32:13,987 --> 01:32:15,280
-"I'm sorry, dear."
- Right.

1817
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:17,991
And when I said "dear,"
she freaked out.

1818
01:32:17,991 --> 01:32:20,369
She went violent on me,
grabbed me by the throat,

1819
01:32:20,369 --> 01:32:23,413
and tried to dig her nails
into my windpipe.

1820
01:32:23,413 --> 01:32:26,833
The next day she was scheduled
to be interviewed

1821
01:32:26,833 --> 01:32:28,794
by Maury Povich on his show,

1822
01:32:28,794 --> 01:32:31,588
and it was going to be
a live interview.

1823
01:32:40,889 --> 01:32:43,600
Will I be able to see it
before we start?

1824
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:45,018
I don't think so.

1825
01:32:45,018 --> 01:32:46,645
We're just kind of
running out of time.

1826
01:32:46,645 --> 01:32:48,355
If you want to push
that little piece into your--

1827
01:32:48,355 --> 01:32:50,232
I heard you.

1828
01:32:50,232 --> 01:32:51,984
How's that?
Does it look okay?

1829
01:32:51,984 --> 01:32:53,402
Is my hair crooked?

1830
01:32:53,402 --> 01:32:56,154
Five seconds.

1831
01:32:57,906 --> 01:33:00,117
Seriously.

1832
01:33:04,204 --> 01:33:06,331
Shere Hite knows what
men think about women

1833
01:33:06,331 --> 01:33:09,251
and what women think
about men, in bed and out.

1834
01:33:09,251 --> 01:33:12,421
It's been quite a week for you,
I know, steeped in controversy,

1835
01:33:12,421 --> 01:33:15,924
particularly about another
ABC/Washington Post poll

1836
01:33:15,924 --> 01:33:19,052
that says basically
that much of your findings

1837
01:33:19,052 --> 01:33:20,887
are quite different from theirs.

1838
01:33:20,887 --> 01:33:22,806
How do you think
this could happen?

1839
01:33:22,806 --> 01:33:26,893
The Washington Post/ABC people
called women on the telephone.

1840
01:33:26,893 --> 01:33:28,687
I mean, imagine the scenario.

1841
01:33:28,687 --> 01:33:31,189
You receive a phone call,
you're standing in the kitchen,

1842
01:33:31,189 --> 01:33:34,526
and right next to you is your
husband stirring the lasagna,

1843
01:33:34,526 --> 01:33:36,903
and they say to you,

1844
01:33:36,903 --> 01:33:39,072
"Are you having
extramarital sex?"

1845
01:33:39,072 --> 01:33:40,782
Well, of course not.

1846
01:33:40,782 --> 01:33:42,743
So your findings you feel
because of the way you--

1847
01:33:42,743 --> 01:33:44,536
- That's one reason.
- Right.

1848
01:33:44,536 --> 01:33:48,415
What happened yesterday in
New York with the limo driver?

1849
01:33:48,415 --> 01:33:50,042
Did you accost him?

1850
01:33:50,042 --> 01:33:51,710
- No.
- You didn't?

1851
01:33:51,710 --> 01:33:53,003
No.

1852
01:33:53,003 --> 01:33:55,380
I felt like it, but I didn't.

1853
01:33:55,380 --> 01:33:57,132
You didn't.

1854
01:33:57,132 --> 01:33:59,760
We just happen to have
the limousine driver with us.

1855
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:01,428
Frank Nicoletti.

1856
01:34:01,428 --> 01:34:03,305
Well, if that's
the reason that you've given,

1857
01:34:03,305 --> 01:34:04,973
you know, to come
and interview me,

1858
01:34:04,973 --> 01:34:08,435
then you've done so
under a false reason,

1859
01:34:08,435 --> 01:34:11,396
because I asked what
the interview would be about,

1860
01:34:11,396 --> 01:34:13,607
and it seems to me
that by doing this,

1861
01:34:13,607 --> 01:34:16,777
you're doing what I'm saying
and what women are saying

1862
01:34:16,777 --> 01:34:18,445
in my book that
men generally do.

1863
01:34:18,445 --> 01:34:21,782
They don't want to listen
to what the issues are.

1864
01:34:21,782 --> 01:34:23,784
But you want to
bring up something else.

1865
01:34:23,784 --> 01:34:29,122
And so, therefore, you have now
lied to get this interview.

1866
01:34:29,122 --> 01:34:30,540
And so, therefore,

1867
01:34:30,540 --> 01:34:34,044
I can't continue
the interview unfortunately.

1868
01:34:34,044 --> 01:34:36,838
I would have liked to talked
to women in the audience

1869
01:34:36,838 --> 01:34:38,799
about what this book is about.

1870
01:34:38,799 --> 01:34:40,967
But if you don't want to listen,

1871
01:34:40,967 --> 01:34:43,136
then you're very similar
to many men

1872
01:34:43,136 --> 01:34:44,930
- that women describe in my book.
- Oh, I'm similar?

1873
01:34:44,930 --> 01:34:46,848
Well, let's find out
what happened yesterday

1874
01:34:46,848 --> 01:34:48,266
from the limo driver.

1875
01:34:48,266 --> 01:34:49,976
Frank Nicoletti is
with us in New York.

1876
01:34:49,976 --> 01:34:51,395
And let's give him
a chance to talk.

1877
01:34:51,395 --> 01:34:53,230
Alright, Frank?

1878
01:34:53,230 --> 01:34:56,233
Shere, I don't know why you say
you didn't accost me.

1879
01:34:56,233 --> 01:34:58,068
I certainly didn't accost you.

1880
01:34:58,068 --> 01:35:00,237
You tried to disfigure me.

1881
01:35:00,237 --> 01:35:01,822
Stop it, you.

1882
01:35:01,822 --> 01:35:03,865
Just like-- same way
you did there, dear.

1883
01:35:03,865 --> 01:35:05,158
That's exactly what you did.

1884
01:35:05,158 --> 01:35:06,493
Following me
across the room.

1885
01:35:06,493 --> 01:35:08,203
You don't have the right
to do that.

1886
01:35:08,203 --> 01:35:09,871
I have the right to get up
and walk off camera.

1887
01:35:09,871 --> 01:35:11,623
You sure--
you can do that,

1888
01:35:11,623 --> 01:35:13,667
but we'd like to hear the story
of what happened yesterday,

1889
01:35:13,667 --> 01:35:14,960
and Mr. Nicoletti is here.

1890
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,545
I don't know
why she's lying.

1891
01:35:16,545 --> 01:35:18,255
This is why I asked you
to check on that.

1892
01:35:18,255 --> 01:35:19,297
Well...

1893
01:35:19,297 --> 01:35:20,757
Don't touch me.

1894
01:35:20,757 --> 01:35:22,342
No, I don't want to tell
any of them anything.

1895
01:35:22,342 --> 01:35:24,010
Listen, Shere.
No, I'm sorry.

1896
01:35:24,010 --> 01:35:26,513
I don't care.

1897
01:35:26,513 --> 01:35:28,348
I'm going. I don't care.

1898
01:35:28,348 --> 01:35:31,101
You're not going to keep me
physically here.

1899
01:35:31,101 --> 01:35:32,811
I'm leaving.

1900
01:35:32,811 --> 01:35:34,646
What was that?

1901
01:35:34,646 --> 01:35:35,897
What happened?

1902
01:35:35,897 --> 01:35:37,357
Yeah, did you follow her?

1903
01:35:37,357 --> 01:35:38,900
Yeah, I tried
until she grabbed me.

1904
01:35:38,900 --> 01:35:40,318
She grabbed you?

1905
01:35:40,318 --> 01:35:43,196
Yeah, she grabbed
the whole camera.

1906
01:35:43,196 --> 01:35:44,865
Trying to help women.

1907
01:35:48,201 --> 01:35:51,955
By the next day, it was--
the whole campaign

1908
01:35:51,955 --> 01:35:53,415
was starting to unravel.

1909
01:35:53,415 --> 01:35:56,042
On "A Current Affair,"
this happened.

1910
01:35:56,042 --> 01:35:57,252
Stop it, you.

1911
01:35:57,252 --> 01:35:58,712
No more nice guy.

1912
01:35:58,712 --> 01:36:00,046
Things were played and played
and played

1913
01:36:00,046 --> 01:36:01,673
and played and played.

1914
01:36:01,673 --> 01:36:03,467
Here's what
happened on New York television.

1915
01:36:03,467 --> 01:36:04,968
What are you,
following me across the room?

1916
01:36:04,968 --> 01:36:06,553
Shere Hite,
the best-selling author,

1917
01:36:06,553 --> 01:36:09,431
has made millions dishing
out criticism of men,

1918
01:36:09,431 --> 01:36:12,350
but when it comes to accepting
any criticism herself,

1919
01:36:12,350 --> 01:36:14,394
as we'll see,
that's quite a different story.

1920
01:36:14,394 --> 01:36:16,229
Fort Worth, Texas. Hello.

1921
01:36:16,229 --> 01:36:18,023
Hello, Miss Hite.
I've read all of your books.

1922
01:36:18,023 --> 01:36:20,609
And my biggest criticism that
I have of you is the fact

1923
01:36:20,609 --> 01:36:23,361
that you seem to have
the attitude that just because

1924
01:36:23,361 --> 01:36:25,489
women disapprove
of something that a man does...

1925
01:36:25,489 --> 01:36:28,742
I watched the Larry King
interview with her,

1926
01:36:28,742 --> 01:36:30,368
and I was just shocked.

1927
01:36:30,368 --> 01:36:34,247
Her eyes looked
kind of dead to me.

1928
01:36:34,247 --> 01:36:36,124
Even if she was angry
about something,

1929
01:36:36,124 --> 01:36:38,835
there was always
a spark of real life.

1930
01:36:38,835 --> 01:36:40,504
It felt like the Shere I knew,

1931
01:36:40,504 --> 01:36:43,340
the life was draining
out of her.

1932
01:36:45,133 --> 01:36:46,676
I thought, "Oh, my God,

1933
01:36:46,676 --> 01:36:49,596
I really have no idea
the toll this has taken."

1934
01:36:49,596 --> 01:36:52,807
Why is Shere Hite so sensitive
about criticism?

1935
01:36:52,807 --> 01:36:56,269
You know you're doing exactly
what, you're doing exactly...

1936
01:36:56,269 --> 01:36:58,021
- May I finish my question?
- No.

1937
01:36:58,021 --> 01:37:00,106
And, in fact, I think that
you're gonna keep on like this

1938
01:37:00,106 --> 01:37:01,525
during the entire thing.

1939
01:37:01,525 --> 01:37:03,818
And you know
what you're doing?

1940
01:37:03,818 --> 01:37:05,237
Excuse me?

1941
01:37:05,237 --> 01:37:06,863
I don't care to have
this part filmed.

1942
01:37:06,863 --> 01:37:08,156
You know what you're doing?

1943
01:37:08,156 --> 01:37:09,908
Exactly what the men
in the book do.

1944
01:37:09,908 --> 01:37:12,410
Then you're gonna say you've
been accused of man bashing.

1945
01:37:12,410 --> 01:37:13,995
- What you got to...
- You've been accused...

1946
01:37:13,995 --> 01:37:16,081
Turn that [bleep] thing off.

1947
01:37:16,081 --> 01:37:17,499
You've been accused
of man bashing.

1948
01:37:17,499 --> 01:37:19,334
Yeah, and it's gonna happen
right here.

1949
01:37:19,334 --> 01:37:20,919
So, do you want to do
a decent interview,

1950
01:37:20,919 --> 01:37:22,295
or do you want to leave?

1951
01:37:22,295 --> 01:37:23,797
I will do the interview
that I want to do.

1952
01:37:23,797 --> 01:37:25,674
Well then, go home
and go back...

1953
01:37:25,674 --> 01:37:29,177
And that's how we
parted company with Shere Hite.

1954
01:37:29,177 --> 01:37:32,013
You know, all publicity
is good publicity.

1955
01:37:32,013 --> 01:37:33,807
That's my job.

1956
01:37:33,807 --> 01:37:38,311
Um, in this case, you know,

1957
01:37:38,311 --> 01:37:39,729
I think that was the exception
to the rule.

1958
01:37:39,729 --> 01:37:43,149
Maybe this wasn't
such great publicity.

1959
01:37:43,149 --> 01:37:47,529
And it certainly stopped
pretty much anyone

1960
01:37:47,529 --> 01:37:51,658
at Knopf working on the book
any longer.

1961
01:37:51,658 --> 01:37:54,661
Watching Shere's
reputation in the States decline

1962
01:37:54,661 --> 01:37:56,371
was really painful.

1963
01:37:56,371 --> 01:37:58,665
Over the course of getting
to know her friends in L.A.

1964
01:37:58,665 --> 01:38:01,459
or here, and my story with her
would become known.

1965
01:38:01,459 --> 01:38:03,712
And people would have
changing responses.

1966
01:38:03,712 --> 01:38:06,673
Initially, people would think,
"Wow, you knew her?"

1967
01:38:06,673 --> 01:38:10,343
And then as she lost
that kind of luster,

1968
01:38:10,343 --> 01:38:15,432
people would look at me as if,
"What was with you?"

1969
01:38:15,432 --> 01:38:18,184
I came back to New York
on a visit,

1970
01:38:18,184 --> 01:38:19,894
and I was walking with my wife,

1971
01:38:19,894 --> 01:38:22,105
and we were walking by
her apartment on Fifth Avenue,

1972
01:38:22,105 --> 01:38:23,690
and I said,
"We have to stop by."

1973
01:38:23,690 --> 01:38:25,400
We went to the doorman,
and I said,

1974
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,736
"Could you please buzz
Shere's apartment?"

1975
01:38:27,736 --> 01:38:30,614
He said, "She doesn't
live here anymore."

1976
01:38:30,614 --> 01:38:33,700
He said, "Over the course
of a couple of nights,

1977
01:38:33,700 --> 01:38:36,870
she just disappeared,
and she was gone."

1978
01:38:47,172 --> 01:38:48,673
{\an8}Good morning.

1979
01:38:48,673 --> 01:38:51,301
{\an8}The public ordeals
of Clarence Thomas are over.

1980
01:38:51,301 --> 01:38:53,637
He survived his final
Senate test by the closest

1981
01:38:53,637 --> 01:38:56,598
winning margin in the history
of Supreme Court nominees.

1982
01:38:56,598 --> 01:39:00,310
Literally and judicially,
he's now set for life.

1983
01:39:01,603 --> 01:39:03,563
Leaders of the
women's movement in this country

1984
01:39:03,563 --> 01:39:05,482
had big questions
about Clarence Thomas

1985
01:39:05,482 --> 01:39:07,108
almost from the day
he was nominated.

1986
01:39:07,108 --> 01:39:08,526
Was he too conservative?

1987
01:39:08,526 --> 01:39:10,028
Would he vote to overturn
Roe v. Wade?

1988
01:39:10,028 --> 01:39:13,573
Then came the charges
of sexual harassment.

1989
01:39:13,573 --> 01:39:17,577
He spoke about acts that he had
seen in pornographic films

1990
01:39:17,577 --> 01:39:21,498
involving such matters as women
having sex with animals,

1991
01:39:21,498 --> 01:39:25,001
and films showing group sex
or rape scenes.

1992
01:39:25,835 --> 01:39:27,420
According
to all the polls,

1993
01:39:27,420 --> 01:39:29,422
American women
weren't listening.

1994
01:39:29,422 --> 01:39:31,841
They supported Thomas.

1995
01:39:31,841 --> 01:39:33,635
Is feminism dead?

1996
01:39:33,635 --> 01:39:36,262
I think that there is
a certain backlash

1997
01:39:36,262 --> 01:39:38,390
in the culture
at large that's internalized

1998
01:39:38,390 --> 01:39:39,766
by some of our students.

1999
01:39:39,766 --> 01:39:41,476
They don't like to use
the F-word.

2000
01:39:41,476 --> 01:39:44,145
I kind of have a negative idea
of feminism.

2001
01:39:44,145 --> 01:39:45,522
It's too radical.

2002
01:39:45,522 --> 01:39:46,981
I don't think it's
really done much.

2003
01:39:46,981 --> 01:39:48,775
I think it's sort of
faded away with time.

2004
01:39:48,775 --> 01:39:51,569
{\an8}In the last decade,
we've seen a powerful

2005
01:39:51,569 --> 01:39:53,571
{\an8}and often unrecognized backlash

2006
01:39:53,571 --> 01:39:55,490
{\an8}that's taken many
different forms.

2007
01:39:55,490 --> 01:39:59,160
{\an8}He said that if I ever told
anyone of his behavior

2008
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:00,912
{\an8}that it would ruin his career.

2009
01:40:00,912 --> 01:40:03,748
{\an8}What we saw and what I saw
as an African-American woman

2010
01:40:03,748 --> 01:40:07,460
{\an8}was, if you come forward,
you will be called a liar,

2011
01:40:07,460 --> 01:40:10,755
an erotomaniac
and mentally disturbed.

2012
01:40:10,755 --> 01:40:12,590
What do you get?
You get humiliated.

2013
01:40:12,590 --> 01:40:14,467
You get your character
assassinated.

2014
01:40:14,467 --> 01:40:16,511
Big winner is obviously
Clarence Thomas.

2015
01:40:16,511 --> 01:40:18,304
Losers, perhaps,
the Women's Movement?

2016
01:40:18,304 --> 01:40:20,014
Perhaps.
And, in fact, in this half hour,

2017
01:40:20,014 --> 01:40:21,599
we're going to talk about
the White House strategy,

2018
01:40:21,599 --> 01:40:24,686
what George Bush may do...

2019
01:40:26,438 --> 01:40:29,899
{\an8}This, my friends,
this is radical feminism.

2020
01:40:29,899 --> 01:40:33,987
{\an8}The agenda that Clinton and
Clinton would impose on America.

2021
01:40:33,987 --> 01:40:37,657
It's not the kind of change
we can abide in a nation

2022
01:40:37,657 --> 01:40:40,577
we still call God's country.

2023
01:41:20,909 --> 01:41:27,081
{\an8}I met her at the launch
for Women and Love in London.

2024
01:41:27,916 --> 01:41:32,128
I went along as a journalist
and interviewed her.

2025
01:41:32,128 --> 01:41:34,547
So, we started talking.

2026
01:41:34,547 --> 01:41:37,383
She'd had such bad experiences
in the States

2027
01:41:37,383 --> 01:41:40,720
that she was always nervous.

2028
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:45,350
She just kept herself
really very private.

2029
01:41:45,350 --> 01:41:46,559
You live
in Europe now.

2030
01:41:46,559 --> 01:41:48,186
Where's your home?

2031
01:41:48,186 --> 01:41:51,564
Well, it's hard to say
that I have a fixed address.

2032
01:41:51,564 --> 01:41:53,316
- You move around a lot?
- Yes, I do.

2033
01:41:53,316 --> 01:41:54,651
What are the cities you live in?

2034
01:41:54,651 --> 01:41:56,569
Well, London is
my publishing base,

2035
01:41:56,569 --> 01:41:58,530
and I spend a lot
of time in Germany,

2036
01:41:58,530 --> 01:42:00,573
because of my husband,
of course, is German.

2037
01:42:00,573 --> 01:42:03,201
And we spend a lot of time
in Paris, too.

2038
01:42:03,201 --> 01:42:06,663
A lot of people say you've kind
of become a self-imposed exile,

2039
01:42:06,663 --> 01:42:09,707
that you've left
the United States in protest.

2040
01:42:09,707 --> 01:42:12,210
My books are very well received
in many countries

2041
01:42:12,210 --> 01:42:13,920
besides the United States.

2042
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:18,258
And there was so much hysteria
over my last report

2043
01:42:18,258 --> 01:42:20,051
in the United States that,

2044
01:42:20,051 --> 01:42:23,096
I don't know, I just didn't
feel a need to come back.

2045
01:42:23,096 --> 01:42:26,099
She started living some
of the time in my flat

2046
01:42:26,099 --> 01:42:29,519
in London, because before that,
she'd go between the Hilton

2047
01:42:29,519 --> 01:42:31,604
and this, actually,
it was a squat.

2048
01:42:31,604 --> 01:42:34,566
It was a squat
in a council flat.

2049
01:42:34,566 --> 01:42:39,028
Literally on a futon
on the floor in a tiny room.

2050
01:42:41,364 --> 01:42:42,782
{\an8}"Dear Sonny,

2051
01:42:42,782 --> 01:42:46,870
{\an8}I'm having
a terrible cash flow problem.

2052
01:42:47,537 --> 01:42:50,206
{\an8}There were no bids
for the paperback rights

2053
01:42:50,206 --> 01:42:52,250
{\an8}to 'Women and Love.'

2054
01:42:52,250 --> 01:42:53,668
{\an8}No offers of interest

2055
01:42:53,668 --> 01:42:57,171
{\an8}in publishing
any future books of mine.

2056
01:42:57,171 --> 01:43:02,051
{\an8}I had to sell my apartment
to pay off the research debts."

2057
01:43:03,970 --> 01:43:07,807
I got a sense that the
press interest was dwindling.

2058
01:43:07,807 --> 01:43:11,853
And, you know, she wanted
to get her message across.

2059
01:43:11,853 --> 01:43:14,188
She wanted press,
but she wanted to control it,

2060
01:43:14,188 --> 01:43:15,982
which is the old conundrum.

2061
01:43:15,982 --> 01:43:19,903
It's what everyone wants and is
almost impossible to achieve.

2062
01:43:19,903 --> 01:43:22,238
- Okay, ready?
Yeah, let's go.

2063
01:43:22,238 --> 01:43:23,740
Okay.

2064
01:43:23,740 --> 01:43:25,199
So, you gave a speech here
at this bookstore?

2065
01:43:25,199 --> 01:43:26,910
Yes, I did.

2066
01:43:26,910 --> 01:43:29,162
It was about fundamentalism
and how it affects women.

2067
01:43:29,162 --> 01:43:31,539
- And how long ago was that?
- About a year ago.

2068
01:43:31,539 --> 01:43:34,250
You have your whole
book display in here now?

2069
01:43:34,250 --> 01:43:35,668
I guess so.

2070
01:43:35,668 --> 01:43:37,503
You have three
new books out right now.

2071
01:43:37,503 --> 01:43:39,172
Yes.

2072
01:43:39,172 --> 01:43:41,799
Now the novel is
all about you, is it not?

2073
01:43:41,799 --> 01:43:44,427
Well, the main character
is a dog,

2074
01:43:44,427 --> 01:43:47,013
and the second main character
is somebody who's sort of

2075
01:43:47,013 --> 01:43:49,349
like me, who asks a lot of
questions, about a woman

2076
01:43:49,349 --> 01:43:50,808
who asked too many questions,

2077
01:43:50,808 --> 01:43:52,852
and all the trouble
that gets her into.

2078
01:43:52,852 --> 01:43:55,188
Now this book,
the book on the family,

2079
01:43:55,188 --> 01:43:58,691
the nuclear family, it's not
available in the U.S. right now.

2080
01:43:58,691 --> 01:44:00,401
No.
- Why not?

2081
01:44:00,401 --> 01:44:01,945
I wish I knew
the answer to that.

2082
01:44:01,945 --> 01:44:04,530
You're gonna have to ask
the publisher that.

2083
01:44:04,530 --> 01:44:06,324
I'm starting to stutter.

2084
01:44:06,324 --> 01:44:08,910
Are you concerned ever that
it seems to be your personality,

2085
01:44:08,910 --> 01:44:10,954
your appearance,
your lifestyle that gets

2086
01:44:10,954 --> 01:44:13,039
in the way
of the messages in your book?

2087
01:44:13,039 --> 01:44:15,750
Yes, maybe I should
write anonymously.

2088
01:44:15,750 --> 01:44:17,877
Hold on
half a second.

2089
01:44:17,877 --> 01:44:19,754
{\an8}How do you feel about the fact
that I'm telling you that

2090
01:44:19,754 --> 01:44:21,756
{\an8}Shere Hite doesn't have a
publisher for her latest report?

2091
01:44:21,756 --> 01:44:23,216
{\an8}Doesn't make any sense.

2092
01:44:23,216 --> 01:44:26,386
Shere Hite's books have sold
like hotcakes

2093
01:44:26,386 --> 01:44:29,722
over and over, book after book.

2094
01:44:29,722 --> 01:44:32,809
She's made a great deal of money
for her publishers,

2095
01:44:32,809 --> 01:44:34,727
and she's very well known.

2096
01:44:34,727 --> 01:44:37,897
How can you shut somebody
like this up?

2097
01:44:37,897 --> 01:44:39,565
It's outrageous.

2098
01:44:39,565 --> 01:44:42,193
I can really understand
why she would choose

2099
01:44:42,193 --> 01:44:43,903
not to live here even.

2100
01:44:43,903 --> 01:44:46,698
She told me the last time
I talked to her

2101
01:44:46,698 --> 01:44:50,034
she can't make a living
in this country.

2102
01:44:50,034 --> 01:44:51,911
And if she can't publish
in this country

2103
01:44:51,911 --> 01:44:55,498
and she's a writer, then
she can't make a living here.

2104
01:44:55,498 --> 01:44:57,542
And so she's being censored.

2105
01:44:57,542 --> 01:45:00,878
Not only just criticized
and censured,

2106
01:45:00,878 --> 01:45:05,299
she's being censored,
too, silenced.

2107
01:45:09,137 --> 01:45:11,931
Are you saying things people
don't want to hear or just

2108
01:45:11,931 --> 01:45:13,516
things that people
don't agree with?

2109
01:45:13,516 --> 01:45:15,143
I think one reason my work
is controversial

2110
01:45:15,143 --> 01:45:18,062
because I usually connect it
to politics.

2111
01:45:18,062 --> 01:45:21,024
This kind of atmosphere of
violence against what was known

2112
01:45:21,024 --> 01:45:24,027
as feminism
gave the feeling of right

2113
01:45:24,027 --> 01:45:26,821
to those who would have
bombed abortion clinics,

2114
01:45:26,821 --> 01:45:29,615
also to those who were
leaving messages on my machines,

2115
01:45:29,615 --> 01:45:30,950
standing outside of my house,

2116
01:45:30,950 --> 01:45:32,869
showing my address
on television.

2117
01:45:32,869 --> 01:45:35,038
I mean, it even makes me nervous
to talk to you.

2118
01:45:35,038 --> 01:45:37,874
I mean, and I'm not sitting in
the United States right now,

2119
01:45:37,874 --> 01:45:41,210
but it still makes me nervous
to talk to you.

2120
01:45:46,174 --> 01:45:49,302
{\an8}I was a young photographer
coming to Paris,

2121
01:45:49,302 --> 01:45:55,099
{\an8}and I was called from a German
magazine to do her portrait.

2122
01:45:55,099 --> 01:45:57,310
I thought she was just
stunning and beautiful.

2123
01:45:57,310 --> 01:46:02,106
But I could see that she was
kind of checking me out.

2124
01:46:02,106 --> 01:46:05,818
This is the first session
I did with her.

2125
01:46:05,818 --> 01:46:08,946
And when you look at it,
you can see in her eyes,

2126
01:46:08,946 --> 01:46:13,076
she doesn't know
if she can trust me.

2127
01:46:13,951 --> 01:46:16,662
When she saw
the first pictures,

2128
01:46:16,662 --> 01:46:18,122
and she liked herself,

2129
01:46:18,122 --> 01:46:21,834
I think that's when
she started to trust me.

2130
01:46:26,714 --> 01:46:29,383
She was swimming
in the fountain,

2131
01:46:29,383 --> 01:46:32,637
which is normally not allowed.

2132
01:46:35,264 --> 01:46:39,811
But she just followed her
feeling, and I followed her.

2133
01:46:40,728 --> 01:46:44,273
We started to do more
and more pictures.

2134
01:46:47,151 --> 01:46:51,030
{\an8}Iris and I developed
a truly close friendship.

2135
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:53,783
Just like a fan, some,
more movement like this.

2136
01:46:53,783 --> 01:46:56,452
It was a dialogue between us.

2137
01:46:58,746 --> 01:47:01,165
She liked how I saw her.

2138
01:47:03,042 --> 01:47:06,170
There was an understanding
from my soul to your soul,

2139
01:47:06,170 --> 01:47:09,882
two women working together
and trusting each other,

2140
01:47:09,882 --> 01:47:14,887
helping each other also
to be not afraid.

2141
01:47:14,887 --> 01:47:17,140
We did things normally
you're not allowed to do,

2142
01:47:17,140 --> 01:47:20,017
but we just did it,
and nobody stopped us.

2143
01:47:29,026 --> 01:47:31,821
I am on a journey.

2144
01:47:33,197 --> 01:47:37,410
As I was traveling,
suddenly the landscapes I saw

2145
01:47:37,410 --> 01:47:40,746
seemed to coincide with
some interior landscape

2146
01:47:40,746 --> 01:47:43,166
I had been seeking.

2147
01:47:44,876 --> 01:47:47,086
{\an8}I have a strong memory
of my bedroom

2148
01:47:47,086 --> 01:47:49,297
{\an8}at my grandmother's house.

2149
01:47:49,297 --> 01:47:54,844
So simple as to be austere,
but it had a special atmosphere.

2150
01:47:55,178 --> 01:47:57,471
I would lie in bed listening
to the sounds of the trains

2151
01:47:57,471 --> 01:48:02,351
passing by in the distance
or the last bird singing.

2152
01:48:03,311 --> 01:48:06,147
{\an8}One of those evenings,
a strange desire began

2153
01:48:06,147 --> 01:48:10,276
{\an8}to creep over me,
a deep craving.

2154
01:48:12,195 --> 01:48:14,363
I learned that the sensations
could be increased

2155
01:48:14,363 --> 01:48:19,493
by moving my legs around with
my body pressed against the bed.

2156
01:48:19,493 --> 01:48:23,789
One day, doing this, I felt
a wonderful explosion

2157
01:48:23,789 --> 01:48:25,833
deep inside my body.

2158
01:48:25,833 --> 01:48:28,461
The pleasure was like
an electric shock.

2159
01:48:28,461 --> 01:48:34,050
I wanted to do it over and over,
and I did, again and again.

2160
01:48:36,510 --> 01:48:41,974
But soon I worried, had I broken
something inside my body?

2161
01:48:41,974 --> 01:48:44,477
No one had ever told me
anything about their having

2162
01:48:44,477 --> 01:48:46,812
such an experience.

2163
01:48:46,812 --> 01:48:48,981
Maybe it was unnatural.

2164
01:48:48,981 --> 01:48:53,778
So that's where we were thinking
about ecstasy, joy,

2165
01:48:53,778 --> 01:48:55,905
pleasure for women.

2166
01:48:55,905 --> 01:48:59,742
{\an8} How can you
show a female body

2167
01:48:59,742 --> 01:49:05,581
{\an8}with power, spiritualism,
beauty, and eroticism?

2168
01:49:06,082 --> 01:49:08,542
In the visual representation

2169
01:49:08,542 --> 01:49:13,089
of the woman, we were thinking
that it is missing something.

2170
01:49:13,089 --> 01:49:16,217
You never see an intelligent
portrait of a woman,

2171
01:49:16,217 --> 01:49:21,138
an intelligent face,
and at the same time a vulva.

2172
01:49:21,138 --> 01:49:25,726
An icon of woman complete
means with sexuality.

2173
01:49:29,230 --> 01:49:32,275
Taking photos
and having sexual discussions

2174
01:49:32,275 --> 01:49:35,027
{\an8}with Iris was a further way
of getting permission

2175
01:49:35,027 --> 01:49:41,075
{\an8}to have a sexual body,
this time from the female world.

2176
01:49:43,202 --> 01:49:47,581
Women reclaiming themselves
from the culture.

2177
01:49:50,167 --> 01:49:53,421
{\an8} I am
the founder of a magazine

2178
01:49:53,421 --> 01:49:57,800
{\an8}called Gaze, which is a magazine
that explores the female gaze.

2179
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:03,139
{\an8} Early in
my career as a journalist,

2180
01:50:03,139 --> 01:50:05,349
{\an8}I discovered Shere Hite

2181
01:50:05,349 --> 01:50:08,728
{\an8}a very unknown icon in Europe
and France.

2182
01:50:08,728 --> 01:50:11,689
{\an8}I quickly understood that
the history of female sexuality

2183
01:50:11,689 --> 01:50:16,068
{\an8}was very much a story that
repeated itself.

2184
01:50:16,068 --> 01:50:20,781
{\an8}Since the first anatomical
diagrams of the clitoris,

2185
01:50:20,781 --> 01:50:25,578
{\an8}which date from
the 17th century to today,

2186
01:50:25,578 --> 01:50:31,334
{\an8}it's a story of the successive
erasure of knowledge.

2187
01:50:35,338 --> 01:50:37,381
When I mentioned that

2188
01:50:37,381 --> 01:50:40,051
I'm doing this interview about
Shere to a group of

2189
01:50:40,051 --> 01:50:41,927
{\an8}young radical feminists,
they said,

2190
01:50:41,927 --> 01:50:43,346
{\an8}"Well, who is she?"

2191
01:50:43,346 --> 01:50:45,306
I said, "You've got
to be kidding me."

2192
01:50:45,306 --> 01:50:48,184
She was in the media
all the time,

2193
01:50:48,184 --> 01:50:51,103
and, you know, you couldn't help
but know about her work,

2194
01:50:51,103 --> 01:50:53,230
but who's talking
about it now?

2195
01:50:53,230 --> 01:50:55,441
We're gonna have to bleep
the word "vagina."

2196
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:58,402
{\an8}But not penis?

2197
01:50:58,402 --> 01:50:59,737
{\an8}Please, please,
let's stay clinical.

2198
01:50:59,737 --> 01:51:01,322
Let's use hoo-ha.

2199
01:51:03,407 --> 01:51:05,159
You know, I thought
you would be a first

2200
01:51:05,159 --> 01:51:08,454
on television with a man
talking about the clitoris.

2201
01:51:08,454 --> 01:51:09,955
I can't do that.

2202
01:51:11,665 --> 01:51:13,709
- Come on, yes, you can.
I can't do that. No.

2203
01:51:13,709 --> 01:51:16,545
There's a disappearance
of feminist knowledge,

2204
01:51:16,545 --> 01:51:18,964
systematically,
century after century,

2205
01:51:18,964 --> 01:51:20,466
decade after decade.

2206
01:51:20,466 --> 01:51:22,301
{\an8}<i>Newsweek</i> says
"The Hite Report"

2207
01:51:22,301 --> 01:51:24,637
{\an8}is the 30th-best-selling
book of all time.

2208
01:51:24,637 --> 01:51:26,222
Really? How wonderful.

2209
01:51:26,222 --> 01:51:28,808
It's the 30th-best-selling book
of all time?

2210
01:51:28,808 --> 01:51:30,643
I can't believe it.

2211
01:51:30,643 --> 01:51:33,729
That's quite extraordinary.

2212
01:51:33,729 --> 01:51:38,359
But I would be surprised
if many young women knew of it.

2213
01:51:39,527 --> 01:51:42,571
I don't hear people
talking about it anymore.

2214
01:51:42,571 --> 01:51:44,615
This is a drawing made
by a woman

2215
01:51:44,615 --> 01:51:47,576
of a woman's anatomy
seen from the side.

2216
01:51:47,576 --> 01:51:52,081
At that time, no drawings other
than of the reproductive system,

2217
01:51:52,081 --> 01:51:55,251
the uterus and so on,
were available.

2218
01:51:56,961 --> 01:51:58,879
{\an8}Male ownership of
women's sexuality

2219
01:51:58,879 --> 01:52:01,382
{\an8}is what makes
patriarchy possible.

2220
01:52:01,382 --> 01:52:05,428
As women, we deserve the right
to own our own bodies.

2221
01:52:07,054 --> 01:52:08,556
I just find it troublesome

2222
01:52:08,556 --> 01:52:11,100
that perhaps younger women
coming along

2223
01:52:11,100 --> 01:52:14,186
will have to fight
the same battles over again.

2224
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:19,316
But I see that just
since I've been answering

2225
01:52:19,316 --> 01:52:23,821
these questions, that the most
important thing to me now

2226
01:52:23,821 --> 01:52:25,990
is freedom.

2227
01:52:25,990 --> 01:52:28,576
Feminine,
how do I define it?

2228
01:52:28,576 --> 01:52:35,666
I define it as I can be anything
from Cleopatra to Bette Davis.

2229
01:52:35,666 --> 01:52:41,172
Feminine is being anything
I want to be.

2230
01:53:17,041 --> 01:53:18,751
{\an8}That's the end.

2231
01:53:18,751 --> 01:53:21,921
{\an8}It's been enlightening for me
to answer the questions

2232
01:53:21,921 --> 01:53:24,590
{\an8}and tell you all my secrets.

2233
01:53:24,590 --> 01:53:27,426
Now I have to go
and feed my daughter.

2234
01:53:27,426 --> 01:53:29,428
Good luck.

2235
01:53:29,428 --> 01:53:31,680
Mommy.