1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,734 --> 00:00:12,046 [lively music playing] 4 00:00:18,294 --> 00:00:20,468 [singers vocalizing] 5 00:00:25,439 --> 00:00:28,373 [Jule] I always worked with the same components. 6 00:00:28,476 --> 00:00:33,619 Sky, sun, sand, girl, swimsuit. 7 00:00:33,723 --> 00:00:36,864 Those five things happened every year. 8 00:00:36,967 --> 00:00:40,212 [reporter] The magazine reaches 70 million adults each year. 9 00:00:40,316 --> 00:00:42,663 Jule Campbell is theSwimsuit's founding editor. 10 00:00:42,766 --> 00:00:47,254 She oversaw every issue between 1965 and 1996. 11 00:00:47,357 --> 00:00:49,601 [Iooss] Let's get her jacket off. 12 00:00:49,704 --> 00:00:50,878 - Walter. Wait. - What? 13 00:00:50,981 --> 00:00:53,467 - You wait till she works it. - Okay. 14 00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:56,021 Because this is kind of a dock jacket. 15 00:00:56,125 --> 00:00:57,126 It's really important. 16 00:00:57,229 --> 00:00:58,299 How tight are you shooting? 17 00:00:58,403 --> 00:01:01,406 - I'm getting full body. - Good. 18 00:01:01,509 --> 00:01:03,822 That's not the way you wear one of those jackets, though. 19 00:01:03,925 --> 00:01:08,309 [reporter] You're looking at one of the most profitable ventures in publishing. 20 00:01:08,413 --> 00:01:10,208 [photographer] No, not a picture of her bum, 21 00:01:10,311 --> 00:01:11,864 but a picture where you see her bum. 22 00:01:11,968 --> 00:01:13,521 - No. - You don't want that? 23 00:01:13,625 --> 00:01:15,523 No. I think the way she's doing it, 24 00:01:15,627 --> 00:01:19,355 three quarters, a little cover. The rest will-- I got all the 25 00:01:19,458 --> 00:01:22,254 - NOW feminist women after me. - Okay. 26 00:01:22,358 --> 00:01:24,705 And I'm already going straight to hell. 27 00:01:26,776 --> 00:01:30,297 ♪ Oh, she looks cute In her bathing suit ♪ 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,816 ♪ Oh, me, oh, my 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,923 ♪ I see reflections of her... 30 00:01:36,026 --> 00:01:38,960 [reporter] But amidst the setting of serene water, 31 00:01:39,064 --> 00:01:40,928 there's been a storm of protest 32 00:01:41,031 --> 00:01:43,344 from anti-pornography groups. 33 00:01:43,448 --> 00:01:45,415 I'm taking the brunt for the others 34 00:01:45,519 --> 00:01:48,694 whose magazines expose a great deal more than we do. 35 00:01:48,798 --> 00:01:51,904 ♪ She looks cute In a bathing suit ♪ 36 00:01:52,008 --> 00:01:54,459 ♪ All men agree 37 00:01:54,562 --> 00:01:59,015 ♪ She could be Miss America For eternity ♪ 38 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:05,228 ♪ Oh, baby She's the one for me ♪ 39 00:02:09,025 --> 00:02:11,648 [reporter] The woman who lives in this historic farmhouse 40 00:02:11,752 --> 00:02:13,167 in rural New Jersey 41 00:02:13,271 --> 00:02:15,618 is a cook, a gardener, a grandmother, 42 00:02:15,721 --> 00:02:18,828 and the creator of one of the most controversial icons 43 00:02:18,931 --> 00:02:20,450 of American pop culture, 44 00:02:20,554 --> 00:02:23,729 the annual Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. 45 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:28,251 [Jule] I am happy that I never had a boring life. 46 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:32,255 A lot of struggles, but struggles are good. 47 00:02:32,635 --> 00:02:35,465 If you survive them, you're a stronger. 48 00:02:36,397 --> 00:02:39,435 Fight for what you really want. 49 00:02:39,538 --> 00:02:43,439 It wasn't easy working as a woman in Time Inc. 50 00:02:43,542 --> 00:02:49,203 The 1986, '87 and '88 cover model, Elle MacPherson. 51 00:02:49,307 --> 00:02:52,413 She was such a powerhouse with these guys. 52 00:02:52,517 --> 00:02:54,726 Just to go into the all-boys club at Sports Illustrated, 53 00:02:54,829 --> 00:02:55,865 especially at that time. 54 00:02:55,968 --> 00:02:57,729 It was run by men for men. 55 00:02:57,832 --> 00:03:00,145 She came in with a voice and an opinion, 56 00:03:00,249 --> 00:03:01,664 and she stood her ground 57 00:03:01,767 --> 00:03:05,012 and she never really got the credit that she deserved. 58 00:03:05,115 --> 00:03:06,220 Footballs were flying through the air, 59 00:03:06,324 --> 00:03:07,566 and she was being sexually harassed 60 00:03:07,670 --> 00:03:09,292 and making a lot less money. 61 00:03:09,396 --> 00:03:11,881 And then, meanwhile, guess who creates 62 00:03:11,984 --> 00:03:13,365 the billion-dollar franchise. 63 00:03:13,469 --> 00:03:15,505 [Jule] Beauty is in the beholder's eye. 64 00:03:15,609 --> 00:03:18,784 So, if someone finds this terribly sexy, that's okay. 65 00:03:18,888 --> 00:03:20,234 But I haven't exploited her. 66 00:03:20,338 --> 00:03:21,960 People are like, oh, it's gratuitous. 67 00:03:22,063 --> 00:03:24,169 That's because they didn't know the whole picture. 68 00:03:24,273 --> 00:03:27,759 [Porizkova] Women who support women? 69 00:03:27,862 --> 00:03:30,348 Women who see the beauty in women? 70 00:03:30,451 --> 00:03:32,142 Why would you not want to support them? 71 00:03:32,246 --> 00:03:34,041 She changed my life. 72 00:03:34,490 --> 00:03:36,457 [reporter] That issue is seen by an estimated 73 00:03:36,561 --> 00:03:38,770 50 million people every year, 74 00:03:38,873 --> 00:03:41,117 one third of them women. 75 00:03:41,221 --> 00:03:43,326 That might not be what you'd expect. 76 00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:45,225 But then again, Jule Campbell 77 00:03:45,328 --> 00:03:47,434 is not what you'd expect either. 78 00:03:49,090 --> 00:03:53,992 [Jule] If you respect beauty, you've nourished your soul. 79 00:03:55,407 --> 00:03:56,684 Oh, my God. 80 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,346 This is how I feel. Like an editor again. 81 00:04:04,968 --> 00:04:06,453 [whimsical music playing] 82 00:04:11,009 --> 00:04:11,872 That's Cheryl. 83 00:04:11,975 --> 00:04:13,908 [singers vocalizing] 84 00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:16,635 This is a good one. 85 00:04:16,739 --> 00:04:18,292 There are just so many things 86 00:04:18,396 --> 00:04:20,812 you can do on a beach and so many poses. 87 00:04:20,915 --> 00:04:23,780 And there's something a little special to it. 88 00:04:23,884 --> 00:04:26,507 [photographer] Yes. Yes. 89 00:04:26,611 --> 00:04:29,993 [Jule] I wasn't into the obviously sexy, 90 00:04:30,097 --> 00:04:33,618 which made it even sexier that you weren't. 91 00:04:35,067 --> 00:04:38,243 There's so much smut out there 92 00:04:38,347 --> 00:04:40,556 that to see a really kind of... 93 00:04:42,005 --> 00:04:45,388 semi-naked but clean, 94 00:04:45,492 --> 00:04:47,770 you really wanna keep it. 95 00:04:48,736 --> 00:04:49,910 I love this one. 96 00:04:51,325 --> 00:04:53,327 It's so modern. 97 00:04:53,741 --> 00:04:58,367 The hard thing for me working for a sports magazine 98 00:04:58,470 --> 00:05:01,991 is all the editors were guys. 99 00:05:02,094 --> 00:05:04,338 And when I showed the pictures, 100 00:05:04,442 --> 00:05:07,755 I would have the managing editor there, 101 00:05:07,859 --> 00:05:10,620 and he could salivate while he looked at them. 102 00:05:10,724 --> 00:05:12,829 Sometimes I'd wanna do this. 103 00:05:16,005 --> 00:05:18,904 [Jule] And they wanted the sexiest pictures. 104 00:05:19,008 --> 00:05:22,701 And I would take them out so they'd never even see them, 105 00:05:22,805 --> 00:05:25,739 because I thought it would cheapen the woman. 106 00:05:26,464 --> 00:05:28,707 This is not usable. 107 00:05:30,053 --> 00:05:32,262 Go in the bad pile. 108 00:05:32,366 --> 00:05:35,818 And they didn't care if they cheapened the woman at all. 109 00:05:35,921 --> 00:05:37,475 But I did. 110 00:05:37,889 --> 00:05:41,893 These are grown men with children, little boys. 111 00:05:47,070 --> 00:05:49,625 [Jule] You have to tell me about this documentary. 112 00:05:49,728 --> 00:05:51,834 [Jill] It's gonna be about you and your life. 113 00:05:52,248 --> 00:05:54,940 - [Jule] That's very ambitious. - [Jill] Do you like the idea? 114 00:05:56,356 --> 00:05:58,737 - Yeah, I'm astounded. - [laughing] 115 00:05:58,841 --> 00:06:00,739 I wouldn't even be here to say, 116 00:06:00,843 --> 00:06:03,949 "No. That didn't really happen that way." 117 00:06:04,053 --> 00:06:07,746 I'd love to hear what you would like to do, 118 00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:11,957 because I'm a pretty good visionary. 119 00:06:12,441 --> 00:06:15,789 I've kind of helped a lot of people 120 00:06:15,892 --> 00:06:17,687 that said, "I never thought of that." 121 00:06:17,791 --> 00:06:19,931 That's kind of why I'm doing what I do. 122 00:06:20,034 --> 00:06:24,487 [Jule] It's kind of unveiling tragedy... 123 00:06:24,591 --> 00:06:26,731 - [Jill] Yeah. - ...and unveiling happiness. 124 00:06:26,834 --> 00:06:30,286 [Jill] You need to look at other people's lives to learn. 125 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:34,324 What is the true meaning of documentary? 126 00:06:34,428 --> 00:06:38,087 Ooh, that's a good question. 127 00:06:38,190 --> 00:06:43,713 "Documentary: dealing freely with historical events, 128 00:06:43,817 --> 00:06:47,959 especially of a recent and controversial nature." 129 00:06:48,856 --> 00:06:51,238 Nobody uses a dictionary anymore. 130 00:06:51,341 --> 00:06:52,170 No. 131 00:06:52,273 --> 00:06:54,552 [chuckles] 132 00:07:07,150 --> 00:07:08,462 Yes. 133 00:07:10,119 --> 00:07:11,603 Wow. Okay. 134 00:07:21,302 --> 00:07:23,097 Is that a Tyra one? 135 00:07:24,374 --> 00:07:26,963 Oh, my God. It is. 136 00:07:27,067 --> 00:07:28,102 Christie. 137 00:07:29,552 --> 00:07:31,761 I wonder if this is Africa. 138 00:07:36,628 --> 00:07:39,907 [Bruce] So, her career, I don't think she ever thought of it 139 00:07:40,011 --> 00:07:41,184 as a business. 140 00:07:41,288 --> 00:07:43,946 She wasn't trying to create 141 00:07:44,049 --> 00:07:47,881 the most successful magazine in publishing history. 142 00:07:49,434 --> 00:07:51,298 [Jule] I really wanted to be an artist. 143 00:07:51,401 --> 00:07:53,024 My parents dissuaded me. 144 00:07:53,127 --> 00:07:54,715 They said I could be an art teacher. 145 00:07:54,819 --> 00:07:57,718 And that did not appeal to me. 146 00:07:57,822 --> 00:07:59,755 So, I went to journalism school. 147 00:07:59,858 --> 00:08:03,586 But I majored in advertising so I could use my art. 148 00:08:06,175 --> 00:08:08,488 [Bruce] She never talked about money. 149 00:08:08,591 --> 00:08:10,524 She didn't like talking about money. 150 00:08:10,628 --> 00:08:14,010 But she was driven by her aesthetics, 151 00:08:14,114 --> 00:08:19,084 the beauty she perceived in people, 152 00:08:19,188 --> 00:08:20,603 nature, 153 00:08:21,155 --> 00:08:22,674 clothes, 154 00:08:23,192 --> 00:08:24,055 objects. 155 00:08:24,158 --> 00:08:25,677 Sea glass, for example. 156 00:08:25,781 --> 00:08:28,162 She would collect things of no value. 157 00:08:28,542 --> 00:08:30,544 [Jule] These are just doodles. 158 00:08:30,648 --> 00:08:33,651 I'm in the garden room looking out. 159 00:08:34,065 --> 00:08:40,692 "What does the heart see that the eye doesn't or can't?" 160 00:08:40,796 --> 00:08:43,937 [Jill] Can you move that water thing? It's in the shot. 161 00:08:44,558 --> 00:08:48,251 Would Jule Campbell from SI want the Pyrex in the shot? 162 00:08:48,355 --> 00:08:51,600 No. The cleaner the better. 163 00:08:52,048 --> 00:08:54,982 So you know what your subject is. 164 00:08:55,569 --> 00:08:58,503 Everyone thinks differently, I think, when they're filming 165 00:08:58,607 --> 00:09:00,436 because they're seeing 166 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:02,921 and then they're trying to get it down 167 00:09:03,025 --> 00:09:04,992 so other people can see it. 168 00:09:05,096 --> 00:09:09,238 But I think filming is very personal, 169 00:09:09,652 --> 00:09:12,517 and it doesn't have to mean anything 170 00:09:12,621 --> 00:09:14,761 as long as you enjoy doing it. 171 00:09:16,970 --> 00:09:19,420 [MacCambridge] You were sort of in the first wave 172 00:09:19,524 --> 00:09:21,457 of independent women after the war 173 00:09:21,561 --> 00:09:24,598 who were making their own way out in the workplace. 174 00:09:24,702 --> 00:09:26,393 What was your first job after school? 175 00:09:26,496 --> 00:09:29,914 [Jule] Marketing consultants called Amos Parrish. 176 00:09:30,017 --> 00:09:32,433 I said, "I want to be in your fashion office." 177 00:09:32,537 --> 00:09:36,852 And he said, "Most of the women in our fashion office haven't been to college. 178 00:09:36,955 --> 00:09:40,200 He said, "Do you think they're gonna take you by the hand to teach you?" 179 00:09:40,303 --> 00:09:42,305 So, I said, "Well, you know, how can I get ahead?" 180 00:09:42,409 --> 00:09:46,620 And he said, "Go and work in a store and learn retailing." 181 00:09:46,724 --> 00:09:49,105 And that's why I got the job at Glamour. 182 00:09:49,209 --> 00:09:52,488 They said, "Well, we see you have your retailing experience. 183 00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:54,421 [woman] This is your first course 184 00:09:54,524 --> 00:09:56,803 in preparing for an office job. 185 00:09:56,906 --> 00:09:59,046 You're starting a new career. 186 00:09:59,150 --> 00:10:03,016 [Jule] The big job was filing. I've never filed in my life. 187 00:10:03,119 --> 00:10:05,052 The woman I was working for said, 188 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:07,261 "If you read everything that goes into this file, 189 00:10:07,365 --> 00:10:10,920 you'll know more about this magazine than anyone else." 190 00:10:11,024 --> 00:10:14,061 So, I started going into the office on Saturdays. 191 00:10:14,165 --> 00:10:16,719 From that point, it seems like every six months, 192 00:10:16,823 --> 00:10:18,341 I had a nice promotion. 193 00:10:18,445 --> 00:10:21,897 There was a long corridor, and I was in an office here. 194 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,624 But over here was the fashion office 195 00:10:24,727 --> 00:10:27,557 that I always wanted to get into 196 00:10:27,661 --> 00:10:29,111 because they were the ones 197 00:10:29,214 --> 00:10:31,458 who worked with the famous photographers 198 00:10:31,561 --> 00:10:33,391 and the models and so forth. 199 00:10:33,494 --> 00:10:37,671 Betty Downey was the fashion editor of Glamour. 200 00:10:38,258 --> 00:10:41,088 And I guess she'd been watching me, and she said, 201 00:10:41,192 --> 00:10:43,090 "I want that girl in my department." 202 00:10:43,194 --> 00:10:46,335 I eventually became accessories editor. 203 00:10:46,438 --> 00:10:49,994 [Jill] You told me once that you worked with Andy Warhol at Glamour. 204 00:10:50,097 --> 00:10:55,137 [Jule] Yeah. When I knew him, he was just coming up. 205 00:10:56,759 --> 00:10:58,312 [Jill] Do you like to talk about it? 206 00:10:58,416 --> 00:11:00,798 Yeah, I'm comfortable with it. 207 00:11:00,901 --> 00:11:03,663 [Jill] How did you get started at Sports Illustrated? 208 00:11:03,766 --> 00:11:06,286 How did I get started at Sports Illustrated? 209 00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:07,563 Oh, my God. 210 00:11:07,667 --> 00:11:10,359 That seems like a thousand years ago. 211 00:11:10,462 --> 00:11:14,259 It's like, "When did you have your first buggy ride?" 212 00:11:14,363 --> 00:11:16,330 Well, I remember when I was at Conde Nast, 213 00:11:16,434 --> 00:11:18,954 we were in a bar one night, and everyone was talking about 214 00:11:19,057 --> 00:11:21,232 this new sports magazine that was coming out. 215 00:11:21,335 --> 00:11:22,992 And, you know, in a hundred years, 216 00:11:23,096 --> 00:11:24,649 I never thought I would end up there. 217 00:11:24,753 --> 00:11:26,824 Fred hired me right on the spot. 218 00:11:26,927 --> 00:11:29,274 One interview, and we just clicked. 219 00:11:29,378 --> 00:11:32,381 He was tough on me. You know, he made me cry sometimes. 220 00:11:32,484 --> 00:11:36,178 [MacCambridge] You were a reporter within Smith's fashion section? 221 00:11:36,281 --> 00:11:39,112 [Jule] Yes. We did menswear, womenswear, 222 00:11:39,215 --> 00:11:41,459 we did vacation houses and so forth. 223 00:11:41,562 --> 00:11:44,842 Very often, on ski stories, we went together. 224 00:11:44,945 --> 00:11:47,568 You go to the best. The best source, 225 00:11:47,672 --> 00:11:50,882 you go to the best hotel, you get the best guide. 226 00:11:50,986 --> 00:11:54,506 And those are the kind of things I learned from him. 227 00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:57,889 Winning his respect is 228 00:11:57,993 --> 00:12:01,686 probably one of the highlights of my career. 229 00:12:02,204 --> 00:12:05,725 I started, I guess, by covering football games. 230 00:12:05,828 --> 00:12:07,416 What are you supposed to wear 231 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:11,523 if you're an elegant woman, and it's November? 232 00:12:11,938 --> 00:12:15,562 Oh, you don't have to be that bright to know. 233 00:12:15,665 --> 00:12:18,323 Number one, you bring a blanket. 234 00:12:18,703 --> 00:12:22,120 Number two, you wear something warm. 235 00:12:22,224 --> 00:12:25,745 Number three, you might have a little, uh, 236 00:12:25,848 --> 00:12:29,990 a little bottle of hooch to warm you up. 237 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,994 [whimsical music playing] 238 00:12:34,098 --> 00:12:36,686 I don't feel I was a woman ahead of my time 239 00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:40,621 because there were fashion magazines all over the place. 240 00:12:40,725 --> 00:12:43,452 I was tired of fashion magazines. 241 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,146 So, you go out and find something else. 242 00:12:54,394 --> 00:12:57,017 You gotta do what interests you. 243 00:12:57,121 --> 00:12:59,537 And then you hit on something 244 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,264 that's like a new roadway. 245 00:13:04,922 --> 00:13:07,545 It's amazing how things happen, isn't it? 246 00:13:09,167 --> 00:13:11,100 [Jill] How long were you there for? 247 00:13:11,204 --> 00:13:13,793 In Sports illustrated? I worked 60 years. 248 00:13:13,896 --> 00:13:16,899 The '60s, the '70s, '80s, the '90s, the aughts. 249 00:13:17,003 --> 00:13:19,764 I mean, they were just nonstop. 250 00:13:20,213 --> 00:13:23,250 I was freelance. I was contract. I was staff. 251 00:13:23,354 --> 00:13:26,460 I went through, you know, a lot of phases up there. 252 00:13:26,564 --> 00:13:27,910 That could have been the tennis. 253 00:13:28,014 --> 00:13:30,430 Jule Campbell's sporting look. 254 00:13:30,533 --> 00:13:32,328 That was my test shoot. 255 00:13:32,432 --> 00:13:34,917 My first recollection is when she hired me 256 00:13:35,021 --> 00:13:39,059 to do tennis fashion. I guess she was breaking me in. 257 00:13:39,163 --> 00:13:46,170 [Jule] It was just to be able to recognize talent, or humor. 258 00:13:46,273 --> 00:13:50,795 People who had adventure in their background. 259 00:13:50,899 --> 00:13:56,318 I found sports people were not phonies. 260 00:13:56,421 --> 00:13:58,734 I mean, she'd use other sports photographers, 261 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:00,805 but there were no girls in my portfolio. 262 00:14:00,909 --> 00:14:02,117 I look back, I mean, I don't even know 263 00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:05,120 how many women I shot as athletes. 264 00:14:06,984 --> 00:14:10,539 In the beginning, Jule did a ski story. 265 00:14:10,919 --> 00:14:14,612 She would kind of audition the models. 266 00:14:14,715 --> 00:14:17,201 How are they gonna be to travel with? What are they like? 267 00:14:17,304 --> 00:14:20,549 She really looked for, like, who the person is, 268 00:14:20,652 --> 00:14:22,413 and can she connect with them? 269 00:14:24,933 --> 00:14:25,934 [Iooss] Billy Kidd. 270 00:14:26,037 --> 00:14:28,419 [lively music playing] 271 00:14:28,522 --> 00:14:32,595 Oh, my God. I'm not a skier. You can see that quickly. 272 00:14:34,494 --> 00:14:38,912 [Ireland] So, Jule asked me if I could ski, and I said yes. 273 00:14:39,016 --> 00:14:41,673 I didn't tell Jule I had only skied once, 274 00:14:41,777 --> 00:14:44,469 but I thought, "You know what? I'll go and I can do it." 275 00:14:44,573 --> 00:14:46,368 We get to the top of this mountain. 276 00:14:46,471 --> 00:14:48,335 The photographer, sports photographer... 277 00:14:48,439 --> 00:14:50,165 Because of course that's who she would hire. 278 00:14:50,268 --> 00:14:52,201 ...was gonna ski along with me. 279 00:14:52,305 --> 00:14:54,479 And very quickly, as I nearly took him out, he's like, 280 00:14:54,583 --> 00:14:58,311 "How about we just photograph Kathy holding the skis?" 281 00:14:58,414 --> 00:15:02,798 But, my goodness, what I wasn't prepared for was Jule Campbell. 282 00:15:02,902 --> 00:15:04,455 What an education. 283 00:15:04,558 --> 00:15:09,080 Experiencing this dynamic, brilliant, strong woman 284 00:15:09,184 --> 00:15:12,946 in a world that was really dominated by men. 285 00:15:13,050 --> 00:15:17,157 And I was in a world that was dominated 286 00:15:17,261 --> 00:15:21,782 by a lot of men who were of kind of sketchy character. 287 00:15:21,886 --> 00:15:23,819 It was a world that didn't feel safe. 288 00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:26,408 And I know I would not have stayed 289 00:15:26,511 --> 00:15:30,274 in that industry as long as I had if not for Jule. 290 00:15:33,242 --> 00:15:34,934 She always missed the farm. 291 00:15:35,037 --> 00:15:37,902 The trees that were so meaningful, 292 00:15:38,006 --> 00:15:40,318 that represented her parents. 293 00:15:40,422 --> 00:15:42,803 The memories that she had there. 294 00:15:42,907 --> 00:15:44,529 She fought so hard just, you know, 295 00:15:44,633 --> 00:15:48,223 to always keep and protect that farm. 296 00:15:48,326 --> 00:15:51,329 [Hannah] Feels like a good beach wedding dress. 297 00:15:51,433 --> 00:15:53,228 - [Jule] Beautiful. - Yeah. 298 00:15:53,331 --> 00:15:55,230 Do I just put my right foot back up, 299 00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:57,922 or do I bring them together first? 300 00:15:58,026 --> 00:16:00,407 Because, look, I'm doing this. 301 00:16:01,132 --> 00:16:03,065 And then do I just do this? 302 00:16:03,169 --> 00:16:06,827 That doesn't seem right. So, I do this. 303 00:16:06,931 --> 00:16:09,209 [Jule] Maybe another time when you come, 304 00:16:09,313 --> 00:16:11,177 we can take the Christmas tree down. 305 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,387 [chuckles] Or at this point, just leave it there. 306 00:16:14,490 --> 00:16:16,561 [Jill] It's only six months till Christmas. 307 00:16:16,665 --> 00:16:18,529 There's something... So, like, when we go back... 308 00:16:18,632 --> 00:16:21,981 It's too bad youth doesn't appreciate... 309 00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:24,155 being the way she is now 310 00:16:24,259 --> 00:16:26,916 because she won't be like that in even 10 years. 311 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:30,058 Gotta enjoy every age. 312 00:16:30,161 --> 00:16:32,957 [Bruce] Make sure you do all the twirling. That's good. 313 00:16:33,061 --> 00:16:34,200 Yeah. You don't have to twirl. 314 00:16:34,303 --> 00:16:36,133 Marriage is not easy. 315 00:16:36,236 --> 00:16:37,548 I don't care how much you love each other. 316 00:16:37,651 --> 00:16:38,790 You're realistic. 317 00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:41,655 [Jule] It's a give-and-take share. 318 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:44,589 - Yeah. - It's a big step. 319 00:16:44,693 --> 00:16:46,315 I have to thank your mother 320 00:16:46,419 --> 00:16:50,112 for keeping this a family after they broke up. 321 00:16:50,216 --> 00:16:51,769 I know. It's very nice. 322 00:16:51,872 --> 00:16:55,773 And I'm also glad you aren't just a kid. You're 30. 323 00:16:55,876 --> 00:16:58,431 - I was 30 when I was married. - I think it's good. 324 00:16:58,534 --> 00:17:01,158 Well, call me if you want the shoulder. 325 00:17:01,261 --> 00:17:05,127 - I got two of them. - Okay, I will. 326 00:17:05,231 --> 00:17:07,750 - I don't want to leave you. - God bless you. 327 00:17:07,854 --> 00:17:10,167 - You're not leaving me. - I know. 328 00:17:10,270 --> 00:17:12,583 - I've got the phone right here. - That's true. 329 00:17:12,686 --> 00:17:15,344 Bye, mother of the bride. 330 00:17:15,724 --> 00:17:17,726 - You're gonna cry. - I'm gonna cry for sure. 331 00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:19,555 - You are gonna cry. - [laughs] 332 00:17:21,247 --> 00:17:23,387 That's why when I say goodbye to people... 333 00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:26,045 Because I always think that might be the last one. 334 00:17:26,148 --> 00:17:29,358 But I don't say anything. I just think it. 335 00:17:36,193 --> 00:17:37,470 [dog barks] 336 00:17:40,714 --> 00:17:42,716 [pensive music playing] 337 00:17:51,104 --> 00:17:52,726 [Jill] How did you meet Ronnie? 338 00:17:53,658 --> 00:17:55,384 Fire Island. 339 00:17:55,488 --> 00:17:59,664 I was with a bunch of people from Glamour magazine 340 00:17:59,768 --> 00:18:04,013 and he was with Fortune magazine. 341 00:18:04,117 --> 00:18:07,741 We danced together weekends. 342 00:18:08,225 --> 00:18:10,296 I wasn't madly in love with him. 343 00:18:10,399 --> 00:18:12,953 I thought he was a snob. 344 00:18:13,057 --> 00:18:14,472 [Jill] You ended up marrying him. 345 00:18:14,576 --> 00:18:15,680 [Jule] Yeah. 346 00:18:15,784 --> 00:18:19,167 I wasn't in a hurry to get married, no. 347 00:18:19,650 --> 00:18:22,963 I didn't like that feeling of, "you're mine now. 348 00:18:23,067 --> 00:18:26,174 You don't do anything without going through me." 349 00:18:26,277 --> 00:18:28,072 It didn't sit well. 350 00:18:28,176 --> 00:18:30,937 Will you look at the waistline? 351 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,698 My mother made my dress. 352 00:18:34,285 --> 00:18:39,048 After the ceremony, the best men rocked the car. 353 00:18:39,152 --> 00:18:43,536 It was a blue Buick. And they rocked it and rocked it. 354 00:18:45,365 --> 00:18:50,405 [group] ♪ Happy birthday to you 355 00:18:50,508 --> 00:18:52,821 [Jule] I get very disturbed when I think of this. 356 00:18:52,924 --> 00:18:57,308 I don't remember a lot of things of Ronnie. 357 00:18:57,412 --> 00:18:58,482 Thank you, too. 358 00:18:58,585 --> 00:19:01,278 [melancholy music playing] 359 00:19:02,831 --> 00:19:06,559 Have to figure out how many years he's gone. 360 00:19:08,768 --> 00:19:10,597 We were the same age. 361 00:19:10,701 --> 00:19:14,636 I wonder why he had to die so much earlier than me. 362 00:19:17,432 --> 00:19:20,883 You know, it's like it came and went quickly. 363 00:19:27,269 --> 00:19:30,514 [reporter] Let's talk about the history of this at Sports Illustrated. 364 00:19:30,617 --> 00:19:32,757 It's somewhat of a tradition at this magazine 365 00:19:32,861 --> 00:19:35,139 to do an issue on bathing suits. 366 00:19:35,243 --> 00:19:37,521 [Jule] It started in 1964. 367 00:19:37,624 --> 00:19:39,764 In those days, we didn't have Super Bowl yet. 368 00:19:39,868 --> 00:19:42,146 The last football game was on Christmas 369 00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:44,010 or it was on New Year's. 370 00:19:44,113 --> 00:19:45,736 And the magazine was very thin. 371 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:48,532 And it was before baseball, after football. 372 00:19:48,635 --> 00:19:50,741 Sports Illustrated didn't make money for 10 years. 373 00:19:50,844 --> 00:19:52,191 Started to make money... 374 00:19:52,294 --> 00:19:53,744 Believe it or not, the whole magazine did. 375 00:19:53,847 --> 00:19:56,505 ...with the arrival of Swimsuit Issue. 376 00:19:56,609 --> 00:19:59,577 Andre Laguerre was the second managing editor of the magazine. 377 00:19:59,681 --> 00:20:02,477 He took the magazine from nowhere and created a form to it. 378 00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:04,479 [Jule] Andre was more of a renaissance man. 379 00:20:04,582 --> 00:20:08,241 He was a sports nut, but he wasn't a jock. 380 00:20:08,345 --> 00:20:11,348 He did a story on Proust. 381 00:20:11,451 --> 00:20:12,590 There was bridge in the magazine. 382 00:20:12,694 --> 00:20:14,454 So, it was much more involved 383 00:20:14,558 --> 00:20:16,629 with things other than sweat. 384 00:20:16,732 --> 00:20:18,424 [MacCambridge] The writer James Michener said 385 00:20:18,527 --> 00:20:20,943 the only American magazine that was better written 386 00:20:21,047 --> 00:20:22,738 than Sports Illustrated was the New Yorker. 387 00:20:22,842 --> 00:20:25,569 And it became the quintessential 388 00:20:25,672 --> 00:20:28,088 middle-class magazine of post-war America. 389 00:20:28,192 --> 00:20:31,437 And Andre Laguerre, a completely visionary editor 390 00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:35,130 who understood how magazines would work. 391 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:37,236 [Jule] Everybody was terrified of him. 392 00:20:37,339 --> 00:20:39,168 I was too, but not that terrified 393 00:20:39,272 --> 00:20:41,032 because I knew he liked me. 394 00:20:41,136 --> 00:20:42,586 You know, you could tell. 395 00:20:42,689 --> 00:20:45,554 Me being, you know, like, 22 or something 396 00:20:45,658 --> 00:20:48,730 and getting the elevator with Laguerre was like... 397 00:20:50,421 --> 00:20:52,665 He may have said hello to me, I'm not sure. 398 00:20:52,768 --> 00:20:54,114 And then, you know, after lunch, 399 00:20:54,218 --> 00:20:57,325 everybody been putting down the sauce. 400 00:20:57,428 --> 00:20:59,810 It was just like, you know, the old New York lunches 401 00:20:59,913 --> 00:21:02,433 you've seen in shows like Mad Men. 402 00:21:02,537 --> 00:21:04,849 Not a lot of things got done after three o' clock. 403 00:21:04,953 --> 00:21:06,575 [MacCambridge] We're talking about a time 404 00:21:06,679 --> 00:21:09,337 where there's men chasing women around desks. 405 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,339 Laguerre wasn't like that. 406 00:21:11,718 --> 00:21:14,687 Laguerre recognized in Campbell this spirit, 407 00:21:14,790 --> 00:21:16,447 but she also had this veneer of toughness. 408 00:21:16,551 --> 00:21:19,795 And he sort of took her under his wing. 409 00:21:19,899 --> 00:21:23,903 And one fall day in 1964, he calls his young assistant, 410 00:21:24,006 --> 00:21:27,700 fashion editor Jule Campbell into his office and says, 411 00:21:27,803 --> 00:21:30,737 "Jule, my dear, how would you like to go someplace beautiful 412 00:21:30,841 --> 00:21:33,464 and put a pretty girl on the cover?" 413 00:21:34,914 --> 00:21:36,950 [lively music playing] 414 00:21:38,883 --> 00:21:43,094 [Jule] I went to California because I thought we should use 415 00:21:43,198 --> 00:21:44,889 more natural kinds of women. 416 00:21:44,993 --> 00:21:47,133 California, they're bigger and healthier 417 00:21:47,236 --> 00:21:49,135 and look more like beach girls. 418 00:21:49,238 --> 00:21:50,585 That was in the days of Twiggy. 419 00:21:50,688 --> 00:21:52,690 Everyone was really, really skinny. 420 00:21:52,794 --> 00:21:54,727 When she appeared on the cover, 421 00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:56,453 it caused quite a sensation. 422 00:21:56,556 --> 00:21:59,456 Middle America just lost its mind. 423 00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,873 They made a big thing out of nothing. 424 00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:05,358 And that's how it got started. 425 00:22:05,462 --> 00:22:08,534 That the cover had to be something sexy 426 00:22:08,637 --> 00:22:11,122 that's gonna catch your eye. 427 00:22:11,226 --> 00:22:14,229 There was nothing sexy about it except it had cutouts. 428 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:17,715 [MacCambridge] You had hundreds of letters coming in saying, 429 00:22:17,819 --> 00:22:19,199 "Who is this Sue Peterson? 430 00:22:19,303 --> 00:22:20,925 She's wonderful. I wanna marry her." 431 00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:23,790 One writer wrote nudity was as dangerous 432 00:22:23,894 --> 00:22:25,965 to our country as the atom bomb. 433 00:22:26,068 --> 00:22:29,244 With those two polarized, very measured responses, 434 00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:33,075 Laguerre and Jule Campbell knew they were onto something. 435 00:22:36,251 --> 00:22:37,873 [Jill] And then I found this. 436 00:22:39,841 --> 00:22:42,982 [Jule] These are all very early pictures. 437 00:22:43,431 --> 00:22:45,812 The beginning of the swimsuit story. 438 00:22:45,916 --> 00:22:48,608 - [upbeat music playing] - [singers vocalizing] 439 00:22:55,512 --> 00:22:58,687 One of the things that made it work was 440 00:22:58,791 --> 00:23:02,864 I didn't have makeup people, I didn't have hair people. 441 00:23:02,967 --> 00:23:05,901 If a model got a sunburn, we photographed it. 442 00:23:06,005 --> 00:23:09,318 That looked natural. It was news. 443 00:23:09,422 --> 00:23:14,496 The element of surprise in any kind of merchandising and so forth, 444 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,396 is what everybody tries to do. 445 00:23:17,499 --> 00:23:20,640 It was a phenomenon because it sold 446 00:23:20,744 --> 00:23:22,124 twice as many magazines 447 00:23:22,228 --> 00:23:25,196 when I put one of my models on the cover. 448 00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:29,373 A woman in a swimsuit is hard to beat, 449 00:23:29,477 --> 00:23:32,687 no matter what kind of athlete you are. 450 00:23:32,790 --> 00:23:34,930 - [upbeat music continues] - [singers vocalizing] 451 00:23:39,452 --> 00:23:42,697 [MacCambridge] This was a time where, as pro football is growing, 452 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,010 advertisers are becoming aware 453 00:23:46,114 --> 00:23:49,980 that sports fans, which previously had been 454 00:23:50,083 --> 00:23:52,258 sort of this undesirable audience, 455 00:23:52,361 --> 00:23:54,950 was actually an upwardly mobile, 456 00:23:55,054 --> 00:23:56,676 attractive audience. 457 00:23:56,780 --> 00:24:00,024 It was a total male-dominated universe. 458 00:24:00,128 --> 00:24:01,854 And yet the one lady over there in the corner 459 00:24:01,957 --> 00:24:03,718 in this little small office 460 00:24:03,821 --> 00:24:05,582 with swimsuits hanging all over the place 461 00:24:05,685 --> 00:24:06,686 did the one issue of the year 462 00:24:06,790 --> 00:24:08,481 that generated a lot of money. 463 00:24:08,585 --> 00:24:11,104 [Iooss] Men ran the world and the staff 464 00:24:11,208 --> 00:24:12,416 and that was the way it was. 465 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:13,417 You know, it's like... 466 00:24:13,521 --> 00:24:15,177 It wasn't easy for her. 467 00:24:19,043 --> 00:24:24,532 [Jule] My whole kind of theory in showing sexy pictures, 468 00:24:24,635 --> 00:24:27,120 I didn't like lewdness. 469 00:24:27,224 --> 00:24:30,227 I found it not attractive, 470 00:24:30,330 --> 00:24:33,610 and I didn't feel it represented me. 471 00:24:33,713 --> 00:24:36,475 And I think the public respected that. 472 00:24:36,578 --> 00:24:38,580 What is lewd? 473 00:24:38,684 --> 00:24:42,066 Lewd is bad taste to me 474 00:24:42,170 --> 00:24:46,864 because how can you make nudity lewd... 475 00:24:48,417 --> 00:24:50,350 unless it's up here? 476 00:24:50,454 --> 00:24:52,663 Because nudity is quite beautiful. 477 00:24:52,767 --> 00:24:54,182 [reporter] What do you think about these new 478 00:24:54,285 --> 00:24:55,252 topless bathing suits? 479 00:24:55,355 --> 00:24:56,978 [woman] I suppose 480 00:24:57,081 --> 00:24:58,669 if I saw everybody else wearing them, I'd wear one. 481 00:24:58,773 --> 00:25:00,809 But you'd get picked up for indecent exposure. 482 00:25:00,913 --> 00:25:03,467 - But otherwise, you don't object? - Oh, no, not at all. 483 00:25:03,571 --> 00:25:06,297 Men walk around with only one half a bathing suit on. Why shouldn't I? 484 00:25:06,401 --> 00:25:10,370 [Jule] On that very first story that I did for Andre, 485 00:25:10,474 --> 00:25:14,996 there's also a story by Liz Smith, "The Nudity Cult." 486 00:25:17,239 --> 00:25:21,520 [Kennedy] Rudi Gernreich wasn't in Jule's firstSwimsuit Issue. 487 00:25:21,623 --> 00:25:25,869 He understood about fun and liberation of the female body. 488 00:25:25,972 --> 00:25:30,667 Not for the male gaze, but for the woman herself. 489 00:25:30,770 --> 00:25:32,841 That was the mood of the moment. 490 00:25:32,945 --> 00:25:35,672 I think a girl would have to go pretty low to wear such a thing. 491 00:25:35,775 --> 00:25:39,538 I think men won't have respect for any girl at all, whether she's good or bad. 492 00:25:39,641 --> 00:25:42,541 It'd be going back to the caveman days. 493 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,853 [Day] Women are always under the microscope 494 00:25:44,957 --> 00:25:47,373 and we're always being judged by what we wear 495 00:25:47,476 --> 00:25:48,477 and what we should have worn. 496 00:25:48,581 --> 00:25:50,203 And it's just, here we are, 497 00:25:50,307 --> 00:25:55,001 in one of our most revealing and natural 498 00:25:55,105 --> 00:25:58,453 and raw versions of ourselves in a swimsuit. 499 00:25:58,557 --> 00:26:01,042 And people are going to dissect that. 500 00:26:09,878 --> 00:26:11,880 [pensive music playing] 501 00:26:17,161 --> 00:26:18,956 [Jule] I think I was very pretty. 502 00:26:19,060 --> 00:26:22,926 But, you know, I never felt pretty. 503 00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:25,998 I never slept with any of my boyfriends. 504 00:26:26,101 --> 00:26:27,758 And it was because I was afraid of sex. 505 00:26:27,862 --> 00:26:30,278 I was raised with the nuns. 506 00:26:30,658 --> 00:26:33,177 You didn't even say the word "sex." 507 00:26:35,386 --> 00:26:37,837 But I did slide a little bit. 508 00:26:37,941 --> 00:26:40,184 [Jill] Sliding's good. 509 00:26:40,288 --> 00:26:41,910 I was a bad girl. 510 00:26:42,635 --> 00:26:44,844 - That's great. - [laughs] 511 00:26:44,948 --> 00:26:47,226 [host] Is there a line between modesty and immodesty 512 00:26:47,329 --> 00:26:48,434 that you draw on? 513 00:26:48,537 --> 00:26:50,022 People should know I'm censoring 514 00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:52,507 while we're working. Believe me. 515 00:26:52,611 --> 00:26:55,372 I strive to take beautiful pictures, 516 00:26:55,475 --> 00:26:57,581 and that's why our locations are so important. 517 00:26:57,685 --> 00:27:01,447 If we were taking girly pictures, we could do that in the studio. 518 00:27:01,550 --> 00:27:05,037 [Elle] She was very interested in the composition of the photography. 519 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,556 That it was more like a fashion story 520 00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:11,906 than it was a sort of gratuitous "girl on the beach" story. 521 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,599 She captured spirits. And yes, it was encased 522 00:27:15,703 --> 00:27:18,671 in these beautiful locations and bodies. 523 00:27:18,775 --> 00:27:21,570 And it wasn't about the very overt sexuality 524 00:27:21,674 --> 00:27:23,434 that we're seeing today. 525 00:27:23,538 --> 00:27:25,678 [lively music playing] 526 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,201 She loved giving people a start. 527 00:27:32,858 --> 00:27:35,515 Jule Campbell called me, and she said, 528 00:27:35,619 --> 00:27:37,345 "We got your suits, and we love them 529 00:27:37,448 --> 00:27:39,727 and we're gonna take them on our shoot with us." 530 00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:41,763 Holy cow, what's happening? 531 00:27:41,867 --> 00:27:45,664 [Ireland] Jule's like, "Let's really try to make this suit sell 532 00:27:45,767 --> 00:27:47,769 because it'll really help her with her career." 533 00:27:49,944 --> 00:27:51,808 [Mills] You know, banks would talk to us, 534 00:27:51,911 --> 00:27:53,361 fabric suppliers would talk to us, 535 00:27:53,464 --> 00:27:54,742 big stores would talk to us. 536 00:27:54,845 --> 00:27:57,330 We couldn't really tell our story ourselves 537 00:27:57,434 --> 00:27:59,125 because we didn't have social media. 538 00:27:59,229 --> 00:28:00,817 You know, it kickstarted everything 539 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,577 to have someone like that say, 540 00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:04,165 "Your work means something." 541 00:28:08,410 --> 00:28:12,173 [Jill] I feel like you had a career that most women envy. 542 00:28:12,276 --> 00:28:13,243 Eh? 543 00:28:13,346 --> 00:28:15,141 [laughs] 544 00:28:15,245 --> 00:28:16,073 Sorry. 545 00:28:16,177 --> 00:28:18,179 [laughing] 546 00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:21,976 Eh? 547 00:28:22,735 --> 00:28:24,841 I can't hear you. 548 00:28:26,705 --> 00:28:28,603 I'm not helping you, am I? 549 00:28:28,707 --> 00:28:31,399 [Jill] No, it's good. It's awesome. 550 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,091 Oh, God. 551 00:28:34,195 --> 00:28:36,266 Why don't I tell you a story 552 00:28:36,369 --> 00:28:39,925 about how it feels to be getting old? 553 00:28:40,028 --> 00:28:41,512 Yes. 554 00:28:41,616 --> 00:28:42,651 - Really? - Yeah. 555 00:28:42,755 --> 00:28:43,929 I wanna know. 556 00:28:44,032 --> 00:28:45,931 I wanna know what's in front of me. 557 00:28:47,622 --> 00:28:50,452 - Cheers. - Here's to old age. 558 00:28:51,557 --> 00:28:53,179 It's a hoax. 559 00:28:54,422 --> 00:28:56,804 It's what you make it, kid. 560 00:28:56,907 --> 00:28:59,185 It's not always in the glass. 561 00:28:59,289 --> 00:29:01,118 [laughing] 562 00:29:01,222 --> 00:29:06,848 I think old age can be cruel. And it can be beautiful. 563 00:29:09,713 --> 00:29:13,786 It's funny when you get near the end of your life. 564 00:29:13,890 --> 00:29:17,825 I used to wonder what my mother was thinking. 565 00:29:17,928 --> 00:29:19,309 And now that I look back on it, 566 00:29:19,412 --> 00:29:22,312 I don't think she was thinking of anything 567 00:29:22,415 --> 00:29:25,902 because she was losing her memory. 568 00:29:26,005 --> 00:29:29,906 But I'm not in that kind of old age. 569 00:29:30,009 --> 00:29:33,012 I'm surprised I still have fight in me. 570 00:29:33,737 --> 00:29:35,118 And that's good. 571 00:29:37,534 --> 00:29:39,260 [Bruce] Hi, Mom. 572 00:29:39,363 --> 00:29:40,399 Hi. 573 00:29:41,538 --> 00:29:42,815 Nice to have you on the farm. 574 00:29:42,919 --> 00:29:44,403 We already know how photogenic you are 575 00:29:44,506 --> 00:29:46,508 from seeing you constantly on television. 576 00:29:46,612 --> 00:29:48,545 This is just a home made video. 577 00:29:48,648 --> 00:29:49,615 I'm not photogenic. 578 00:29:49,718 --> 00:29:50,892 I'm catching Mom. 579 00:29:50,996 --> 00:29:52,445 She's not wearing her blue and white striped shirt. 580 00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:55,517 Oh, I might say that, for Graham's very first birthday. 581 00:29:55,621 --> 00:29:57,381 He's getting a striped shirt. 582 00:30:01,869 --> 00:30:05,079 [all] ♪ Happy birthday to you 583 00:30:05,182 --> 00:30:08,841 [Jule] ♪ Happy birthday to me 584 00:30:08,945 --> 00:30:14,709 ♪ Happy birthday Happy birthday ♪ 585 00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:18,989 ♪ Happy birthday to me 586 00:30:23,925 --> 00:30:29,034 Ninety-five? My God, am I that old, Jill? 587 00:30:31,381 --> 00:30:34,453 Look how peaceful it is down there. 588 00:30:39,182 --> 00:30:42,047 You guys will be sitting out here 589 00:30:42,150 --> 00:30:46,568 maybe next year, reminiscing about this year 590 00:30:47,397 --> 00:30:48,985 and where I was. 591 00:30:49,364 --> 00:30:53,230 And I'll be saying, "Don't you dare forget me." 592 00:30:54,991 --> 00:30:59,961 Jill. I'm somewhere between crying and happy. 593 00:31:03,206 --> 00:31:05,967 Life is all too short. 594 00:31:06,071 --> 00:31:09,005 It comes, it stays, it goes. 595 00:31:14,217 --> 00:31:15,943 [Jill] This is called an iPhone. 596 00:31:16,046 --> 00:31:19,705 And they keep making these cameras better and better. 597 00:31:19,808 --> 00:31:22,708 Without all the bunch of equipment. 598 00:31:22,811 --> 00:31:24,330 Exactly. 599 00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:27,437 That's called the doggy pose. 600 00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:29,439 I'd say, "No doggy pose." 601 00:31:29,542 --> 00:31:32,131 Photographer always tried to do it. 602 00:31:32,235 --> 00:31:33,477 Because I used to hear the guys 603 00:31:33,581 --> 00:31:36,895 talk about the pictures and the doggy pose. 604 00:31:36,998 --> 00:31:40,243 - I really didn't like it. - It's kind of demeaning. 605 00:31:40,346 --> 00:31:41,623 Yes, very. 606 00:31:41,727 --> 00:31:45,455 That's Cheryl Tiegs. America's first supermodel. 607 00:31:45,558 --> 00:31:47,733 This is her Instagram. 608 00:31:47,836 --> 00:31:50,667 Oh, Jule. 609 00:31:50,770 --> 00:31:53,463 That's me? Look at how lively I was. 610 00:31:53,566 --> 00:31:57,536 I always thought of myself as strolling through life. 611 00:31:57,639 --> 00:32:01,160 [Jill] He literally is doing flips for you guys. 612 00:32:01,264 --> 00:32:02,817 [Tiegs] That's funny. 613 00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:06,579 Kourken. I had a little fling with him. 614 00:32:07,166 --> 00:32:09,479 [Jill] These photographers are pretty sexy. 615 00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:10,929 [Jill and Tiegs laughing] 616 00:32:11,032 --> 00:32:13,932 You said it, not me. [laughs] 617 00:32:14,553 --> 00:32:16,486 I rarely stop smiling. 618 00:32:17,659 --> 00:32:19,420 Happy little thing. 619 00:32:22,423 --> 00:32:27,359 It was a long time ago when we started Sports Illustrated. 620 00:32:27,462 --> 00:32:30,362 And I don't mean to jump on board, 621 00:32:30,465 --> 00:32:35,401 but Jule and I kind of became a team. 622 00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:39,026 I was in on it from the beginning. 623 00:32:39,129 --> 00:32:43,582 And my first cover, we were on the boat going home. 624 00:32:43,685 --> 00:32:48,656 I was cold, so Jule put on this long-sleeved bathing suit. 625 00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:50,623 I put my sunglasses on. 626 00:32:50,727 --> 00:32:52,349 Jay Maisel was taking pictures. 627 00:32:52,453 --> 00:32:54,006 He said, "Take your sunglasses off. 628 00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:55,214 Take your sunglasses off." 629 00:32:55,318 --> 00:32:56,975 I said, "No, I'm tired. 630 00:32:57,078 --> 00:32:58,666 I don't want my picture taken." 631 00:32:58,769 --> 00:33:01,082 And they put that on the cover. 632 00:33:01,186 --> 00:33:02,497 That was me, a real person. 633 00:33:02,601 --> 00:33:06,329 I wasn't a model at that moment. 634 00:33:06,708 --> 00:33:10,126 I felt very comfortable that it was a female 635 00:33:10,229 --> 00:33:14,682 because it is a very vulnerable situation. 636 00:33:14,785 --> 00:33:17,892 And I had the confidence 637 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:23,622 and the security to do what I had to do. 638 00:33:23,725 --> 00:33:28,592 The powerful position she put herself in, my God. 639 00:33:28,696 --> 00:33:32,182 [Deford] In 1965, Jule featured a model 640 00:33:32,286 --> 00:33:35,358 in a net swimsuit with a flesh-tone lining. 641 00:33:35,461 --> 00:33:38,016 Now, I understand that's not even real flesh. 642 00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:40,432 But the reaction was utter shock. 643 00:33:40,535 --> 00:33:42,468 And then, in 1978, 644 00:33:42,572 --> 00:33:45,092 readers really had something to be shocked about 645 00:33:45,195 --> 00:33:49,130 when Cheryl Tiegs appeared in the real thing. 646 00:33:49,855 --> 00:33:51,443 Oh. 647 00:33:51,857 --> 00:33:56,827 Well, you're not gonna bring up the white fishnet. 648 00:33:57,483 --> 00:34:02,937 [Jill] I mean, can I... How do I not bring up the white fishnet? 649 00:34:03,041 --> 00:34:06,665 The white fishnet was a throwaway shot. 650 00:34:06,768 --> 00:34:08,322 A picture you wouldn't even wanna show anyone. 651 00:34:08,425 --> 00:34:10,496 Taken on a miserable afternoon 652 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,051 in the middle of nowhere in the Amazon. 653 00:34:13,706 --> 00:34:15,329 [Jule] We were in Manaus. 654 00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:18,090 It was awful light. 655 00:34:18,677 --> 00:34:21,956 Then I went up to Cheryl, and because the light was bad, 656 00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:23,785 I said, "Would you please get wet?" 657 00:34:23,889 --> 00:34:25,994 Because I thought if her skin glistened, 658 00:34:26,098 --> 00:34:27,272 we'd get some highlights. 659 00:34:27,375 --> 00:34:29,032 Getting the suit wet 660 00:34:29,136 --> 00:34:32,484 was what made it so see-through. 661 00:34:32,587 --> 00:34:35,211 Before, it was just a bunch of cotton. 662 00:34:35,590 --> 00:34:39,249 [Jule] It wasn't, "I'll see more if the suit's wet." 663 00:34:42,114 --> 00:34:43,667 I edit all my own pictures. 664 00:34:43,771 --> 00:34:46,049 And I always edited them with Walter. 665 00:34:46,153 --> 00:34:47,740 And we pick out what we think 666 00:34:47,844 --> 00:34:48,776 are the best pictures 667 00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:49,742 and that's what we sell. 668 00:34:49,846 --> 00:34:51,019 And we went through the slides 669 00:34:51,123 --> 00:34:52,400 and put them in order 670 00:34:52,504 --> 00:34:54,575 to try to keep the interest going. 671 00:34:54,678 --> 00:34:57,233 And we put that as the last slide in the tray. 672 00:34:57,336 --> 00:35:00,167 [Jule] It was kind of, "Okay, wake up." 673 00:35:00,270 --> 00:35:01,892 And they printed it. 674 00:35:01,996 --> 00:35:03,515 Everyone knew SI then. 675 00:35:03,618 --> 00:35:06,207 [Iooss] Cheryl became a megastar. 676 00:35:06,311 --> 00:35:10,004 It just exploded. It changed the world. 677 00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:13,835 The simplicity, I think, of just a girl walking on the beach 678 00:35:13,939 --> 00:35:18,702 in a bathing suit like that was... I don't know. 679 00:35:18,806 --> 00:35:20,980 I don't know. It's not my favorite shot. 680 00:35:21,084 --> 00:35:23,017 [MacCambridge] It wasn't just 681 00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:25,019 that there was a beautiful woman 682 00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:28,022 with visible breasts in the pages of Sports Illustrated. 683 00:35:28,126 --> 00:35:30,887 It was a beautiful woman thatSports Illustrated readers 684 00:35:30,990 --> 00:35:34,270 felt like they knew. It was Cheryl freaking Tiegs. 685 00:35:34,373 --> 00:35:35,995 I mean, it was controversial. 686 00:35:36,099 --> 00:35:38,653 You could see anatomy, which, I think, 687 00:35:38,757 --> 00:35:42,347 even at that time, which wasn't like such a foreign idea, 688 00:35:42,450 --> 00:35:45,212 I think it was a foreign idea in mainstream media. 689 00:35:46,316 --> 00:35:48,215 [Kennedy] It was used in an artistic way 690 00:35:48,318 --> 00:35:51,942 to say, "We don't care about your boundaries." 691 00:35:52,046 --> 00:35:56,084 It wasn't to turn you on breasts. 692 00:35:56,188 --> 00:35:57,638 They're so political. 693 00:35:57,741 --> 00:36:00,813 You barely can't even see a nipple. But... 694 00:36:01,987 --> 00:36:03,333 It was the first. 695 00:36:03,437 --> 00:36:04,714 You're that scared of boobs, 696 00:36:04,817 --> 00:36:06,440 you better put your head in the sand. 697 00:36:06,543 --> 00:36:08,269 Like, honestly... Honestly, though, 698 00:36:08,373 --> 00:36:12,066 news flash, we all have nipples. [laughs] 699 00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:15,725 Except, mine do something. Half the population's doesn't. 700 00:36:15,828 --> 00:36:17,485 [laughs] 701 00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:19,177 Scary. 702 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,800 You've never seen a nipple before? 703 00:36:21,903 --> 00:36:23,905 [laughing] 704 00:36:25,597 --> 00:36:28,255 It's true, though. It comes down to that. 705 00:36:28,358 --> 00:36:30,533 [lively music playing] 706 00:36:44,581 --> 00:36:46,031 [protest chanting] Hey, ho 707 00:36:46,134 --> 00:36:48,033 Beauty pageants gotta go 708 00:36:48,136 --> 00:36:49,586 Jule used to get death threats. 709 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:52,279 They had people in front of the Time and Life building 710 00:36:52,382 --> 00:36:54,281 picketing. 711 00:36:54,729 --> 00:36:56,075 [protesters chanting] Join us now! 712 00:36:56,179 --> 00:36:58,146 Swimsuits in a sports magazine 713 00:36:58,250 --> 00:37:02,634 is presenting us with an image that's impossible to live up to. 714 00:37:02,737 --> 00:37:04,946 And that's very degrading and demeaning. 715 00:37:05,050 --> 00:37:08,053 The role that you have selected for women is degrading to women 716 00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:11,850 because you choose to see women as sex objects, not as full human beings. 717 00:37:11,953 --> 00:37:14,024 - Well, obviously, it's-- - Hold on, now. The day that-- 718 00:37:14,128 --> 00:37:15,302 [audience applauding] 719 00:37:15,405 --> 00:37:16,855 I wanna say-- I haven't finished. 720 00:37:16,958 --> 00:37:18,788 The day that you are willing to come out here 721 00:37:18,891 --> 00:37:22,274 with a cotton tail attached to your rear end... 722 00:37:22,378 --> 00:37:24,103 [audience laughing] 723 00:37:24,207 --> 00:37:26,865 [radio host 1] Some people would consider it nothing more than 724 00:37:26,968 --> 00:37:28,970 [stammers] soft-core porn. 725 00:37:29,074 --> 00:37:31,904 [Jule] No. We feel it's done in good taste. 726 00:37:32,008 --> 00:37:35,494 [radio host 1] I guess, Jule, we do know that sex sells, doesn't it? 727 00:37:35,598 --> 00:37:38,256 [Jule] If I felt sex sells, then I wouldn't work on this. 728 00:37:38,359 --> 00:37:39,843 I'm a career woman. I'm a mother. 729 00:37:39,947 --> 00:37:42,087 [radio host 1] It seems to be merely an excuse 730 00:37:42,190 --> 00:37:44,123 to show flesh. Come on, Jule. 731 00:37:44,227 --> 00:37:46,885 [radio host 2] There has been some criticism that 732 00:37:46,988 --> 00:37:50,958 what you're doing is taking advantage of females 733 00:37:51,061 --> 00:37:53,892 the way some of the magazines that are sold 734 00:37:53,995 --> 00:37:57,413 that are very much more explicit about sex. 735 00:37:57,516 --> 00:37:59,311 [Jule] I censor it very carefully. 736 00:37:59,415 --> 00:38:02,072 And I care if a feminist calls me and says, 737 00:38:02,176 --> 00:38:03,488 "Oh, well, you're selling out." 738 00:38:03,591 --> 00:38:04,834 I'm not selling out. 739 00:38:04,937 --> 00:38:05,697 It would be much easier 740 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,319 to photograph them unclothed. 741 00:38:07,423 --> 00:38:09,908 To make it attractive and appealing 742 00:38:10,011 --> 00:38:13,325 and still keep it in the realm of good taste 743 00:38:13,429 --> 00:38:16,570 I think is the reason it has been successful. 744 00:38:16,673 --> 00:38:18,123 [man 1] Dear Jule, you should get a bonus. 745 00:38:18,226 --> 00:38:20,884 [man 2] Thank you for making a cold winter bearable. 746 00:38:20,988 --> 00:38:22,300 [man 3] Can hardly wait for the letters. 747 00:38:22,403 --> 00:38:24,509 [Jule] We got thousands of people 748 00:38:24,612 --> 00:38:26,752 wanting to cancel their subscriptions 749 00:38:26,856 --> 00:38:28,996 or say I was a perv or something. 750 00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:30,377 I didn't know this for a while. 751 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:31,861 At the bar with Andre, 752 00:38:31,964 --> 00:38:33,138 they used to make bets 753 00:38:33,241 --> 00:38:35,209 on how many cancellations. 754 00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:36,417 [woman 1] Tiegs has no class left. 755 00:38:36,521 --> 00:38:38,695 [woman 2] You should be ashamed. 756 00:38:38,799 --> 00:38:40,663 - [woman 3] I was disgusted. - [woman 4] Smut. 757 00:38:40,766 --> 00:38:43,493 [man] When I want Playboy, I'll buy Playboy. 758 00:38:43,597 --> 00:38:45,495 The powers that be at Sports Illustrated 759 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:48,671 are overwhelmingly male and white. 760 00:38:48,774 --> 00:38:51,501 You're talking about hegemonic masculinity here. 761 00:38:51,605 --> 00:38:54,539 And they were looking to attract that coveted 762 00:38:54,642 --> 00:38:56,955 18 to 34 age demographic. 763 00:38:57,058 --> 00:39:00,372 [MacCambridge] There was a very fair question to be asked. 764 00:39:00,476 --> 00:39:03,133 Why are we looking at swimsuit models 765 00:39:03,237 --> 00:39:06,102 in what is supposed to be a news magazine devoted to sports? 766 00:39:06,205 --> 00:39:09,588 Doctoral theses have been written on that very subject. 767 00:39:09,692 --> 00:39:10,900 [Hagerman] The objectification. 768 00:39:11,003 --> 00:39:12,695 There's no question about that. Right? 769 00:39:12,798 --> 00:39:16,354 You have females in a magazine that are being consumed. 770 00:39:16,457 --> 00:39:18,666 [Kennedy] And that was what made women feel 771 00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:20,910 that other women were being exploited. 772 00:39:21,013 --> 00:39:23,395 The masculine gaze. 773 00:39:23,499 --> 00:39:26,536 But the swimsuit was a subversive item. 774 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,574 When they first started wearing swimsuits in the 1920s, 775 00:39:29,677 --> 00:39:32,715 the patriarchy in America didn't like it. 776 00:39:32,818 --> 00:39:35,027 So, everyone's got to step back 777 00:39:35,131 --> 00:39:39,204 and really accept the freedom of expression happening. 778 00:39:39,307 --> 00:39:41,379 Jule was part of that. 779 00:39:41,482 --> 00:39:44,796 And she had to push some boundaries. 780 00:39:44,899 --> 00:39:48,213 We are all beautiful human beings, all of us. 781 00:39:48,316 --> 00:39:50,318 So, take a picture of it. 782 00:39:50,422 --> 00:39:51,906 [chuckles] You know? 783 00:39:52,010 --> 00:39:54,357 Women should do what they wanna do, 784 00:39:54,461 --> 00:39:56,497 but don't do it with anger. 785 00:39:56,601 --> 00:40:00,743 Do it really quiet, maybe a little sneaky. Why not? 786 00:40:00,846 --> 00:40:03,470 So long as it's not dishonest. 787 00:40:03,884 --> 00:40:05,989 Just be kind of mysterious. 788 00:40:06,093 --> 00:40:09,924 Something comes up and you say, "I'm gonna think about that. 789 00:40:10,028 --> 00:40:11,685 I'll hold on that." 790 00:40:11,788 --> 00:40:14,584 You don't have to tell everybody what you're thinking, 791 00:40:14,688 --> 00:40:18,830 who you are, or why you did what you did. 792 00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:24,007 [MacCambridge] I was reading the Michael Gross book on models. 793 00:40:24,111 --> 00:40:28,011 He all but credits the beginning of the supermodel era 794 00:40:28,115 --> 00:40:32,430 to Cheryl Tiegs in that '78 Swimsuit Issue. 795 00:40:32,533 --> 00:40:37,055 Jule really is responsible for the supermodel. 796 00:40:37,158 --> 00:40:39,713 Jule wanted to know, who is this person? 797 00:40:39,816 --> 00:40:43,268 And she even included the names 798 00:40:43,371 --> 00:40:45,926 and gave the women an identity. 799 00:40:46,029 --> 00:40:49,101 [Jule] We have always recognized the name of the girl. 800 00:40:49,205 --> 00:40:52,795 So they become personalities more than models or mannequins. 801 00:40:52,898 --> 00:40:54,659 [Day] Models were hangers. 802 00:40:54,762 --> 00:40:57,558 Models were a prop to put the clothing on. 803 00:40:57,662 --> 00:40:59,422 [MacCambridge] Jule wrote those captions 804 00:40:59,526 --> 00:41:01,562 mentioning the models by name. 805 00:41:01,666 --> 00:41:03,875 And so the readers started to feel like 806 00:41:03,978 --> 00:41:05,635 they knew some of those models. 807 00:41:05,739 --> 00:41:07,706 [Alt] She didn't wanna objectify women. 808 00:41:07,810 --> 00:41:09,328 She wanted to make them people. 809 00:41:09,432 --> 00:41:11,365 [Roshumba] She was setting us up 810 00:41:11,469 --> 00:41:14,713 for a future of being a person of clout, 811 00:41:14,817 --> 00:41:18,130 putting our names in there first and last. 812 00:41:18,234 --> 00:41:19,338 That's what it did. 813 00:41:19,442 --> 00:41:20,857 Jule wanted that. 814 00:41:21,927 --> 00:41:23,481 [Banks] A high-fashion model doesn't mean 815 00:41:23,584 --> 00:41:25,310 that everybody knows your name. 816 00:41:25,413 --> 00:41:29,590 It means that everybody in the fashion industry knows your name. 817 00:41:29,694 --> 00:41:32,662 I knew that when Jule called me 818 00:41:32,766 --> 00:41:34,699 and said I was going to be on the cover of this magazine, 819 00:41:34,802 --> 00:41:38,841 I knew that everybody in America would know my name. 820 00:41:38,944 --> 00:41:42,085 I started to already think, "How can I apply this to a business?" 821 00:41:42,189 --> 00:41:43,708 Because, you know, being on the cover 822 00:41:43,811 --> 00:41:46,365 and having this adulation is one thing. 823 00:41:46,469 --> 00:41:49,541 But how can I translate that into a way 824 00:41:49,645 --> 00:41:52,786 that I can become financially independent, 825 00:41:52,889 --> 00:41:55,443 that I can start to command the work that I actually want to do? 826 00:41:55,547 --> 00:42:00,276 I was dreaming about being on the other side of the lens. 827 00:42:00,656 --> 00:42:03,521 Working with Jule truly helped me get there. 828 00:42:03,624 --> 00:42:06,627 [Day] They became so much more capable 829 00:42:06,731 --> 00:42:09,319 to, like, take that name and build brands around it 830 00:42:09,423 --> 00:42:12,633 and build lives around it and impact others around it. 831 00:42:12,737 --> 00:42:13,807 Bet your bottom dollar. 832 00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:15,256 [MacCambridge] Cheryl's billings 833 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,500 multiplied exponentially, and she wound up 834 00:42:17,604 --> 00:42:18,881 on the cover of Time later. 835 00:42:18,984 --> 00:42:20,779 [Jule] Then I found Christie. 836 00:42:20,883 --> 00:42:23,368 I spoke to the man who wrote 837 00:42:23,471 --> 00:42:24,749 the Sports Illustrated book, 838 00:42:24,852 --> 00:42:26,647 and he sent me the tapes 839 00:42:26,751 --> 00:42:28,131 of when he was interviewing Jule. 840 00:42:28,235 --> 00:42:30,755 So, this is Jule talking about meeting you. 841 00:42:30,858 --> 00:42:33,033 [Jule on recording] I just found her by chance. 842 00:42:33,136 --> 00:42:35,622 I was in California, passing through LA, 843 00:42:35,725 --> 00:42:36,968 and I called Nina Blanchard, 844 00:42:37,071 --> 00:42:39,246 and I said, "Do you have anyone known?" 845 00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:42,836 And when Christie walked in, I was blown away. 846 00:42:43,284 --> 00:42:47,357 [Brinkley] I had just done my first big shoot in Paris. 847 00:42:47,461 --> 00:42:50,982 And then they decided to give me the haircut of the moment. 848 00:42:51,085 --> 00:42:54,157 They chopped off my hair and gave me a perm. 849 00:42:54,261 --> 00:42:57,229 I didn't know what to do with this hair. 850 00:42:57,333 --> 00:42:59,266 So, I bought a bunch of berets, 851 00:42:59,369 --> 00:43:02,683 and I just stuck the whole thing in my beret. 852 00:43:02,787 --> 00:43:04,478 So, now here I am in LA, 853 00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:07,895 and I'm asked to go meet Jule Campbell. 854 00:43:07,999 --> 00:43:10,311 [Jule] She was as cute as could be. 855 00:43:10,415 --> 00:43:13,245 You know, I thought she looks like Miss California 856 00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:14,626 or Miss Sunkist Orange. 857 00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:15,834 Just exuded health 858 00:43:15,938 --> 00:43:18,285 and had these Mary Blue eyes. 859 00:43:18,388 --> 00:43:22,565 And I booked her for that story in Cancun. 860 00:43:22,669 --> 00:43:24,912 [Brinkley] She said that she remembered me 861 00:43:25,016 --> 00:43:27,087 because I was the girl in the beret. 862 00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:32,920 Look at this. I look like one of the Marx Brothers. 863 00:43:33,024 --> 00:43:34,750 [laughs] 864 00:43:34,853 --> 00:43:36,614 The message is that sometimes 865 00:43:36,717 --> 00:43:39,133 it's the things that make you most insecure 866 00:43:39,237 --> 00:43:41,826 are the things that make you the most memorable. 867 00:43:41,929 --> 00:43:46,589 So, be you and get discovered. 868 00:43:46,693 --> 00:43:50,179 My body was pretty bodacious. 869 00:43:50,282 --> 00:43:54,148 It wasn't like a model's body, which was my big insecurity 870 00:43:54,252 --> 00:43:57,773 because I didn't think I looked like a skinny model. 871 00:43:57,876 --> 00:44:01,397 She felt like it was inspirational 872 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:06,402 for women to feel like, "I wanna take care of myself," 873 00:44:06,505 --> 00:44:09,232 but she really was pushing the athletic part. 874 00:44:09,336 --> 00:44:12,995 And they took me out on this red dirt road. 875 00:44:13,098 --> 00:44:14,721 And I remember feeling like, 876 00:44:14,824 --> 00:44:16,964 I'm running like an athlete 877 00:44:17,068 --> 00:44:19,311 for Sports Illustrated. 878 00:44:19,415 --> 00:44:23,039 I was really trying to emphasize the run. 879 00:44:23,143 --> 00:44:27,457 So, that made me not feel so self-conscious about it 880 00:44:27,561 --> 00:44:29,183 was to be strong. 881 00:44:29,287 --> 00:44:30,944 She wasn't looking for perfection. 882 00:44:31,047 --> 00:44:35,189 She was looking for some sort of energy. 883 00:44:35,293 --> 00:44:41,230 The mixture of athletic and sexy 884 00:44:41,644 --> 00:44:44,509 to the perfect degree that she did it 885 00:44:44,612 --> 00:44:46,994 created a real niche. 886 00:44:47,098 --> 00:44:49,376 [Jule] Christie was a natural. That's about the only model 887 00:44:49,479 --> 00:44:50,791 I've ever worked with 888 00:44:50,895 --> 00:44:52,482 who did her first sitting 889 00:44:52,586 --> 00:44:55,451 and she could do no wrong in front of the camera. 890 00:44:55,831 --> 00:44:57,729 She just moved... She did everything right. 891 00:44:57,833 --> 00:45:00,801 And she worked for us... One, two, three, four... 892 00:45:00,905 --> 00:45:02,872 It was five years before she got a cover. 893 00:45:02,976 --> 00:45:06,289 And then she got three in a row, and she was made. 894 00:45:07,325 --> 00:45:08,636 [Brinkley] Thank you. 895 00:45:08,740 --> 00:45:10,846 [lively music playing] 896 00:45:13,365 --> 00:45:15,160 [Mulvoy] Jule would take off and do her thing 897 00:45:15,264 --> 00:45:17,093 for four or five weeks in the fall, 898 00:45:17,197 --> 00:45:18,577 deliver the pictures to Andre 899 00:45:18,681 --> 00:45:20,165 and Dick Gangel, the art director. 900 00:45:20,269 --> 00:45:23,375 And it was like an 8 or 10-page section in the magazine 901 00:45:23,479 --> 00:45:25,136 for a very long time. 902 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:26,931 [Jule] I think Andre liked me. 903 00:45:27,034 --> 00:45:30,003 because I'm very family oriented. 904 00:45:30,106 --> 00:45:32,902 He invited himself up to our farm for the weekend. 905 00:45:33,661 --> 00:45:35,560 He never gave me a big raise. 906 00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:39,426 I thought if he liked me so much, he should have given me a raise. 907 00:45:39,909 --> 00:45:42,981 [Mulvoy] Roy Terrell succeeded Andre in 1972. 908 00:45:43,085 --> 00:45:46,847 [MacCambridge] Terrell leaves in '79. And Rogin starts. 909 00:45:46,951 --> 00:45:49,436 [Jule] I asked him for a raise, Gil. 910 00:45:49,539 --> 00:45:51,265 And told him what I was earning. 911 00:45:51,369 --> 00:45:53,302 And his answer to me was 912 00:45:53,405 --> 00:45:54,510 "You've got a husband." 913 00:45:59,308 --> 00:46:01,724 I went into his office one day, and I said, 914 00:46:01,828 --> 00:46:03,657 "Would you write a letter for me? 915 00:46:03,761 --> 00:46:05,659 I want it from the managing editor. 916 00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:07,557 It's to Carol Alt. 917 00:46:07,661 --> 00:46:08,869 Will you ask her to put weight on 918 00:46:08,973 --> 00:46:10,664 and tell her I'm not gonna use her 919 00:46:10,768 --> 00:46:12,148 if she doesn't. 920 00:46:13,978 --> 00:46:15,600 [Jule] Time marches on. 921 00:46:15,703 --> 00:46:18,568 Yeah, unfortunately. 922 00:46:18,672 --> 00:46:21,330 Can you remember it all? 923 00:46:21,433 --> 00:46:23,919 I remember a lot of it. 924 00:46:24,436 --> 00:46:27,232 In the very beginning, when I was so young, 925 00:46:27,336 --> 00:46:29,372 my father and mother, they were worried. 926 00:46:29,476 --> 00:46:31,996 So, Jule wanted me to wear this G-string. 927 00:46:32,099 --> 00:46:35,516 And I was like, "[gasps] It's like being naked. 928 00:46:35,620 --> 00:46:38,830 I can't wear that G-string. I just can't do it." 929 00:46:38,934 --> 00:46:40,832 And Jule's like, "Okay, no worries. 930 00:46:40,936 --> 00:46:42,696 I want you in something you're comfortable in." 931 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,663 Then, when the magazine came out, 932 00:46:44,767 --> 00:46:46,804 there was Christie Brinkley with just the G-string. 933 00:46:46,907 --> 00:46:48,909 And I thought, "That looks so beautiful." 934 00:46:49,013 --> 00:46:51,670 And never again did I ever deny Jule 935 00:46:51,774 --> 00:46:54,294 a suit that she wanted to put on me. 936 00:46:54,397 --> 00:46:57,745 Gonna do an orange suit now and then a white suit. 937 00:46:57,849 --> 00:47:03,234 Because there's a white rim of light where the surface... 938 00:47:03,613 --> 00:47:06,168 [Alt] The best part was when we had to change on the beach. 939 00:47:06,271 --> 00:47:10,137 And Jule would stand around you with towels. 940 00:47:10,241 --> 00:47:12,830 The suit came down, the other suit went up. 941 00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:18,663 [Jule] The gutter of the center of the page 942 00:47:18,766 --> 00:47:20,423 will run right through her shoulder 943 00:47:20,527 --> 00:47:22,184 and through her bosom here. 944 00:47:22,287 --> 00:47:25,359 Now Walter and I are gonna have a conference over that. 945 00:47:25,773 --> 00:47:28,604 [Alt] She worked all year to do this. 946 00:47:29,018 --> 00:47:32,263 We burst through this forest to a shoreline. 947 00:47:32,366 --> 00:47:35,404 And there was this boat painted the rainbow colors of my suit. 948 00:47:35,507 --> 00:47:38,821 I was like, how did she know? Four o'clock in the morning. 949 00:47:38,925 --> 00:47:41,513 That boat, my suit, this guy. 950 00:47:41,617 --> 00:47:43,895 Like it was... 951 00:47:43,999 --> 00:47:47,174 We used to call them "the coffins." 952 00:47:47,278 --> 00:47:52,041 Ten, 15 giant coffins of bathing suits. 953 00:47:52,145 --> 00:47:56,321 And she would try the suits and try the suits and try the suits. 954 00:47:56,425 --> 00:47:59,359 ...to have a very subtle color. I haven't come to it yet. 955 00:47:59,462 --> 00:48:01,775 - You said this looked great. - That looked beautiful on her. 956 00:48:01,879 --> 00:48:04,122 [Alt] Because she looked at you. She looked at your personality. 957 00:48:04,226 --> 00:48:06,159 She looked at your body and said, "Okay, no, not that one." 958 00:48:06,262 --> 00:48:07,781 And sometimes, "What do you mean? 959 00:48:07,885 --> 00:48:09,024 Oh, I should look good in everything. 960 00:48:09,127 --> 00:48:11,681 I'm a model. I'm a model." 961 00:48:12,165 --> 00:48:14,477 - Thank you. - I'm very proud of you. 962 00:48:14,581 --> 00:48:15,789 Thank you. 963 00:48:15,893 --> 00:48:18,654 I sound like a mother. And I am a mother. 964 00:48:18,757 --> 00:48:20,932 Listen, you've been my mother for almost 40 years. 965 00:48:21,036 --> 00:48:24,142 - Or like my mother. - Very happy for you, honey. 966 00:48:25,764 --> 00:48:27,559 [Alt] So, I'll come back and visit. 967 00:48:28,664 --> 00:48:30,528 [clattering] 968 00:48:31,529 --> 00:48:33,911 [Jill] Oh, my God. 969 00:48:34,014 --> 00:48:37,984 I'm just trying to open the door a little. 970 00:48:38,087 --> 00:48:40,918 [Bruce] Mom, let's binge-watch Hoarders tonight. 971 00:48:41,297 --> 00:48:43,299 - [Jill laughs] - I can't hear you, Bruce. 972 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:46,199 - But maybe that's just as well. - A show on TV called Hoarders, 973 00:48:46,820 --> 00:48:51,066 where the authorities come and declutter it for you. 974 00:48:58,487 --> 00:48:59,971 [Jill] I mean, I'm just throwing out... 975 00:49:00,075 --> 00:49:05,321 You don't need this old AARP advertisement. 976 00:49:10,361 --> 00:49:11,914 You're not throwing that away, are you? 977 00:49:12,018 --> 00:49:13,605 - No. This is your box. - Oh. 978 00:49:13,709 --> 00:49:15,883 Your special box. 979 00:49:16,436 --> 00:49:21,199 I was an only child, you know, and I spent a lot of time alone. 980 00:49:21,303 --> 00:49:24,651 So, anything like that that I kept, 981 00:49:24,754 --> 00:49:28,103 I save it just for that memory. 982 00:49:28,206 --> 00:49:31,451 One little snapshot. One moment. 983 00:49:34,316 --> 00:49:36,904 Did Bruce ask you to do this? 984 00:49:37,008 --> 00:49:39,700 No, I offered to do it because I'm tired of-- 985 00:49:39,804 --> 00:49:43,152 Because I want the house to be unclogged. Do you mind? 986 00:49:44,602 --> 00:49:45,775 It's... 987 00:49:46,155 --> 00:49:48,123 It's very different feeling 988 00:49:48,226 --> 00:49:50,711 seeing other people going through your stuff. 989 00:49:50,815 --> 00:49:53,300 [Jill] No, I'm saying, do you wanna look at this? 990 00:49:53,404 --> 00:49:55,302 I'm not getting rid of it. 991 00:49:55,406 --> 00:49:57,753 [Jule] A lot of people made fun of me 992 00:49:57,856 --> 00:49:59,410 because I was sentimental, 993 00:49:59,513 --> 00:50:01,619 but I didn't let it get to me. 994 00:50:04,587 --> 00:50:08,350 I feel like I just died. That's why we're cleaning it out. 995 00:50:11,905 --> 00:50:14,701 - You did. And you're in... - What? 996 00:50:14,804 --> 00:50:16,875 You're in heaven. [laughs] 997 00:50:16,979 --> 00:50:19,878 I'm in heaven? This is heaven? 998 00:50:19,982 --> 00:50:22,295 - You're in hoarder's heaven. - Okay. 999 00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:26,471 [Jill chuckles] 1000 00:50:29,785 --> 00:50:31,097 Throw it out? 1001 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,546 - Mm-hm. - Okay. 1002 00:50:34,445 --> 00:50:37,931 I'd just as soon have you do it, than anyone, Jill. 1003 00:50:38,035 --> 00:50:39,415 Aw. 1004 00:50:49,598 --> 00:50:51,979 Actually, it's a really good shot of him. 1005 00:50:52,463 --> 00:50:54,051 It's just like he got a really good shot of you 1006 00:50:54,154 --> 00:50:56,122 walking in the bushes, which is really nice. 1007 00:50:56,225 --> 00:50:57,330 It's called B-roll. 1008 00:50:58,193 --> 00:51:00,333 Can we do one more of those? 1009 00:51:03,577 --> 00:51:04,475 [Jill chuckles] 1010 00:51:06,891 --> 00:51:08,996 All right. Turn around and walk up to the porch, 1011 00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,309 and then I'll meet you up there. 1012 00:51:11,792 --> 00:51:15,348 So, is it weird that I'm doing this documentary? 1013 00:51:17,557 --> 00:51:19,110 I think, uh... 1014 00:51:21,837 --> 00:51:24,081 I'm grateful. And... 1015 00:51:24,184 --> 00:51:27,360 There's admiration, respect. 1016 00:51:27,463 --> 00:51:29,120 The only thing is, I need my fact checker. 1017 00:51:29,224 --> 00:51:30,570 That would be you 1018 00:51:30,673 --> 00:51:33,331 since you know more about my mother than I do. 1019 00:51:33,435 --> 00:51:35,333 It's a surprising amount I don't know. 1020 00:51:35,437 --> 00:51:38,060 Because she kept me out of that life. 1021 00:51:38,164 --> 00:51:40,407 And I didn't seek to be in it. 1022 00:51:41,477 --> 00:51:43,445 She was hardly around. When she came home, 1023 00:51:43,548 --> 00:51:44,791 she didn't talk about work. 1024 00:51:44,894 --> 00:51:45,930 All I really cared about 1025 00:51:46,033 --> 00:51:47,276 was getting something to eat. 1026 00:51:47,380 --> 00:51:49,209 [interviewer] How did having a baby 1027 00:51:49,313 --> 00:51:51,384 change things for you? 1028 00:51:51,487 --> 00:51:53,110 I would do that differently. 1029 00:51:53,213 --> 00:51:55,560 I went back to work after seven weeks. 1030 00:51:55,664 --> 00:51:57,321 I would spend more time with my baby. 1031 00:51:57,424 --> 00:51:58,874 I have that guilt to live with. 1032 00:51:58,977 --> 00:52:01,428 - Do you feel guilty? - Because I can't remember. 1033 00:52:01,532 --> 00:52:03,982 I'd come home at night, and I was tired, 1034 00:52:04,086 --> 00:52:05,846 and someone else had bathed my baby. 1035 00:52:05,950 --> 00:52:08,090 Someone else had fed the baby. 1036 00:52:08,194 --> 00:52:10,610 And I missed taking him to school. 1037 00:52:10,713 --> 00:52:12,508 Who's that? 1038 00:52:12,612 --> 00:52:14,476 You tell me. This is your life. 1039 00:52:14,579 --> 00:52:16,029 - [Bruce] This is what we'd do. - [Jill] That's your dad. 1040 00:52:16,133 --> 00:52:19,205 [Bruce] The one with the long, floppy hair must be me. 1041 00:52:21,207 --> 00:52:23,140 [Jule] Look at Brucey. 1042 00:52:24,071 --> 00:52:27,592 [Bruce] Nonna. Oh, Nonno. 1043 00:52:27,696 --> 00:52:32,356 [Jule] I know when Bruce was born, my mother took over. 1044 00:52:32,459 --> 00:52:34,185 It was like her baby. 1045 00:52:35,669 --> 00:52:37,257 [Bruce] When I was very young, I missed her 1046 00:52:37,361 --> 00:52:39,984 when she was gone all the time. 1047 00:52:40,571 --> 00:52:45,438 I had a support system which included four au pairs. 1048 00:52:45,541 --> 00:52:47,992 So, there was Edna, the first one. 1049 00:52:48,095 --> 00:52:51,168 I later had Puluv, crazy Russian, 1050 00:52:51,271 --> 00:52:52,790 who thought it would toughen me up 1051 00:52:52,893 --> 00:52:57,588 to eat poison ivy and get soaking wet in the rain. 1052 00:52:58,485 --> 00:53:01,626 And then Greta, the bad one, 1053 00:53:01,730 --> 00:53:04,457 who used to throw things at me and beat me. 1054 00:53:05,251 --> 00:53:07,529 And then Erica, the sweet one. 1055 00:53:07,943 --> 00:53:10,635 [Jill] Did your mom know that that woman beat you? 1056 00:53:10,739 --> 00:53:14,225 Only when I told them. And then they fired her. 1057 00:53:14,329 --> 00:53:15,951 [Jule] Whenever I went on a trip, 1058 00:53:16,054 --> 00:53:17,401 I cooked for a whole week. 1059 00:53:17,504 --> 00:53:18,781 That's not the same 1060 00:53:18,885 --> 00:53:20,852 as having your mother's arms around you. 1061 00:53:20,956 --> 00:53:22,164 And I see this because I see 1062 00:53:22,268 --> 00:53:25,650 how my son is raising his children. 1063 00:53:25,754 --> 00:53:27,307 And I even say that to my husband. 1064 00:53:27,411 --> 00:53:29,413 I say, we weren't like that. 1065 00:53:29,896 --> 00:53:33,520 [Porizkova] She did talk quite a bit about Bruce 1066 00:53:33,624 --> 00:53:36,351 and was a little unsure if she had done 1067 00:53:36,454 --> 00:53:38,870 all she should have as a mom. 1068 00:53:38,974 --> 00:53:42,184 And you know what? That's a kind of a crap thing to put on women, 1069 00:53:42,288 --> 00:53:43,806 because what about Dad? 1070 00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:46,084 It's like, why are we supposed to be guilty 1071 00:53:46,188 --> 00:53:48,604 for not being enough around our kids? 1072 00:53:48,708 --> 00:53:52,159 [Jill] When I had my kids, she didn't want me to work. 1073 00:53:52,263 --> 00:53:53,989 Now I understand her better. 1074 00:53:54,092 --> 00:53:58,200 [chuckling] I was so angry when she was like that with me. 1075 00:53:58,304 --> 00:54:00,961 To this day, it's fucking hard to be a woman 1076 00:54:01,065 --> 00:54:04,241 who's trying to balance motherhood with a decent career. 1077 00:54:04,344 --> 00:54:06,933 We are supposed to make a choice, 1078 00:54:07,036 --> 00:54:08,624 while men can have both. Right? 1079 00:54:08,728 --> 00:54:11,075 Because a woman does all the work. 1080 00:54:11,455 --> 00:54:14,975 [Jule] I hated parents that pushed their children. 1081 00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:19,566 And I never pushed Bruce, but Bruce pushed himself. 1082 00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:25,158 He was always president of the class or whatever. 1083 00:54:25,641 --> 00:54:29,438 And he got into Harvard without a problem. 1084 00:54:29,542 --> 00:54:31,578 And I don't know why he pushed himself. 1085 00:54:31,682 --> 00:54:35,548 He wanted to be the best something, I think. 1086 00:54:35,651 --> 00:54:39,483 Yeah, I was seeking approval, for sure. 1087 00:54:39,586 --> 00:54:43,901 - Were you proud of her? - Yeah. Yeah, I was. 1088 00:54:47,663 --> 00:54:48,526 Hmm. 1089 00:54:55,015 --> 00:54:57,777 [Mulvoy] That is great design. And again here, look at-- 1090 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,435 She's running off. She's gonna run for a long time. 1091 00:55:00,538 --> 00:55:02,057 [MacCambridge] I remember reading somewhere, 1092 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,336 Jule Campbell has to wait outside the photo lab, 1093 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,959 because if Mark gets to the pictures first, 1094 00:55:08,063 --> 00:55:10,893 he's gonna want to run the ones that are the most revealing. 1095 00:55:10,997 --> 00:55:13,586 [Jule] No, that's not true. It doesn't work that way. 1096 00:55:13,689 --> 00:55:15,070 [MacCambridge] Right, and it never did. 1097 00:55:15,173 --> 00:55:17,106 [Jules] No. He likes to see a pretty girl 1098 00:55:17,210 --> 00:55:18,625 like any other man. 1099 00:55:18,729 --> 00:55:21,387 But maybe the pictures under his guidance 1100 00:55:21,490 --> 00:55:22,871 have been a little sexier. 1101 00:55:22,974 --> 00:55:26,012 But it's also because times have changed. 1102 00:55:26,115 --> 00:55:28,394 Each of the managing editors, 1103 00:55:28,497 --> 00:55:31,258 their perception of women is very interesting. 1104 00:55:31,362 --> 00:55:33,882 And I can't really tell you everything. 1105 00:55:35,228 --> 00:55:37,368 [mellow music playing] 1106 00:55:44,168 --> 00:55:47,102 It's time to start respecting women for who they are, 1107 00:55:47,205 --> 00:55:48,275 not the way that they look. 1108 00:55:48,379 --> 00:55:50,485 [crowd cheering] 1109 00:55:53,971 --> 00:55:58,631 [Hagerman] Ann Simonton was Swimsuit Issue model. 1110 00:55:59,010 --> 00:56:02,635 And later became one of the biggest critics 1111 00:56:02,738 --> 00:56:04,533 of the Swimsuit Issue. 1112 00:56:04,637 --> 00:56:06,466 [Simonton] We are anti-censorship. 1113 00:56:06,570 --> 00:56:08,675 We're also pro-nudity and sexuality. 1114 00:56:08,779 --> 00:56:12,196 Know that it's not the sex per se, 1115 00:56:12,299 --> 00:56:14,060 the explicitness per se, 1116 00:56:14,163 --> 00:56:16,614 but it's the marketing of women, 1117 00:56:16,718 --> 00:56:19,479 taking a real human being and turning her into an object 1118 00:56:19,583 --> 00:56:21,378 that we are against. 1119 00:56:21,757 --> 00:56:24,070 [Hagerman] From her own personal experience, 1120 00:56:24,173 --> 00:56:25,727 she talks about sexual assault. 1121 00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:28,143 It's time that we make some changes in the society. 1122 00:56:28,246 --> 00:56:31,595 Rape is a violent thing that's happening to too many women. 1123 00:56:32,078 --> 00:56:34,770 [Hagerman] You certainly can make that connection 1124 00:56:34,874 --> 00:56:36,634 between violence against women, 1125 00:56:36,738 --> 00:56:39,292 because that happens when women are seen 1126 00:56:39,396 --> 00:56:41,121 not as subjects with agency, 1127 00:56:41,225 --> 00:56:48,197 but as people to be consumed and to be maneuvered at will. 1128 00:56:48,301 --> 00:56:49,992 So, Ann Simonton, 1129 00:56:50,096 --> 00:56:52,374 she's like, "Okay, we've got this whole issue 1130 00:56:52,478 --> 00:56:53,720 about swimsuit models. 1131 00:56:53,824 --> 00:56:56,827 What if we devoted that to female athletes? 1132 00:56:56,930 --> 00:56:59,761 The guarantee was not to female athletes 1133 00:56:59,864 --> 00:57:03,040 that they at least show up in one issue a year. 1134 00:57:03,143 --> 00:57:06,146 That guarantee is given to swimsuit models. 1135 00:57:07,389 --> 00:57:10,219 [Jule] My answer to the feminists 1136 00:57:10,323 --> 00:57:12,359 who've given me a hard time, 1137 00:57:12,463 --> 00:57:15,673 if they knew that I'm never further away 1138 00:57:15,777 --> 00:57:17,261 than the photographer's elbow. 1139 00:57:17,364 --> 00:57:19,608 And I also have my own camera, 1140 00:57:19,712 --> 00:57:21,576 so I can see what he sees. 1141 00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:23,474 And if I don't like what he's doing, 1142 00:57:23,578 --> 00:57:25,476 I'll say, "I don't want that kind of picture, 1143 00:57:25,580 --> 00:57:27,616 a provocative position or whatever." 1144 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,654 And they'll say, "Oh, just a few pictures for me." 1145 00:57:30,757 --> 00:57:32,483 And I'll say, "No." And if he continues, 1146 00:57:32,587 --> 00:57:34,140 I just walk in front of his camera 1147 00:57:34,243 --> 00:57:35,659 and I go and fix her hair. 1148 00:57:35,762 --> 00:57:37,523 And I can hear him swearing behind me. 1149 00:57:37,626 --> 00:57:40,560 And when I turn around, I say, "Are you ready?" 1150 00:57:40,664 --> 00:57:42,976 This is somebody's daughter. 1151 00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,634 The reason this story has lasted as long 1152 00:57:45,738 --> 00:57:48,844 is that you walk a very thin line of propriety. 1153 00:57:48,948 --> 00:57:50,570 Now pull it over your head. 1154 00:57:50,674 --> 00:57:51,882 [Jules] Or are you gonna be nasty? 1155 00:57:51,985 --> 00:57:53,608 I don't care if they think I'm a nun. 1156 00:57:53,711 --> 00:57:55,575 And I surprise them the next series. 1157 00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:57,094 I always, from the beginning, 1158 00:57:57,197 --> 00:58:00,442 had one little picture that stirred the pot. 1159 00:58:00,546 --> 00:58:02,927 But it can't be too naughty. 1160 00:58:04,170 --> 00:58:06,724 I wasn't there to tease men. 1161 00:58:06,828 --> 00:58:09,796 I was there for being outside 1162 00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:12,385 and being healthy and being natural. 1163 00:58:12,489 --> 00:58:14,732 And I felt like Jule always had my back 1164 00:58:14,836 --> 00:58:16,596 and that she wasn't gonna allow 1165 00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:18,633 other people to be around 1166 00:58:18,736 --> 00:58:21,083 that were gonna exploit us in different ways. 1167 00:58:21,187 --> 00:58:24,121 She's doing the best she can with the tools that she has 1168 00:58:24,224 --> 00:58:27,469 and is working within the system that she exists in 1169 00:58:27,573 --> 00:58:28,815 and the time that she exists in. 1170 00:58:28,919 --> 00:58:31,818 One person can exact some change, 1171 00:58:31,922 --> 00:58:33,820 but one person cannot take down the whole system 1172 00:58:33,924 --> 00:58:35,719 and fight the entire editorial staff. 1173 00:58:35,822 --> 00:58:37,272 [woman 1] Sir, once again, 1174 00:58:37,375 --> 00:58:39,757 I would like to see Sports Illustrated explore 1175 00:58:39,861 --> 00:58:42,311 more of women's athletic abilities 1176 00:58:42,415 --> 00:58:43,899 and less of their bare bottoms. 1177 00:58:44,003 --> 00:58:45,763 [woman 2] I appreciate the public service you perform 1178 00:58:45,867 --> 00:58:47,109 by reminding your female readers 1179 00:58:47,213 --> 00:58:48,766 to resume their exercise programs. 1180 00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:50,561 May I suggest a similar issue 1181 00:58:50,665 --> 00:58:53,150 featuring Olympic water polo or swimming team 1182 00:58:53,253 --> 00:58:55,980 modeling the latest in men's swimwear. 1183 00:58:59,294 --> 00:59:04,195 [Hagerman] Jule's looking for athletic swimsuit models. 1184 00:59:04,299 --> 00:59:06,404 Not lewd, fairly covered. 1185 00:59:06,508 --> 00:59:09,822 Her success with the Swimsuit Issue 1186 00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:12,169 contributes to this real blurring 1187 00:59:12,272 --> 00:59:14,723 and this kind of emphasis 1188 00:59:14,827 --> 00:59:16,276 on female athletes 1189 00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:19,279 needing to look like swimsuit model stand-ins 1190 00:59:19,383 --> 00:59:21,834 to get any kind of attention from the magazine. 1191 00:59:21,937 --> 00:59:26,666 Sports isn't enough in the way that it's enough for men. 1192 00:59:26,770 --> 00:59:28,530 Jule's designed a responsibility. 1193 00:59:28,634 --> 00:59:29,980 She does it very well. 1194 00:59:30,083 --> 00:59:34,087 It complicates matters for female athletes. 1195 00:59:37,988 --> 00:59:39,817 [Elle] In the beginning, we were doing this shot, 1196 00:59:39,921 --> 00:59:42,026 and the guys were in the water 1197 00:59:42,130 --> 00:59:45,133 and Kathy, Dara, and I were walking past. 1198 00:59:47,031 --> 00:59:49,516 And then we did the same to them. 1199 00:59:49,965 --> 00:59:51,588 [Jill] Is this the men's polo team? 1200 00:59:51,691 --> 00:59:53,003 - [Hagerman] Yeah. - [Jill] Let's see. 1201 00:59:53,106 --> 00:59:54,245 Because I don't think they have in it 1202 00:59:54,349 --> 00:59:56,420 where the women are checking out the men. 1203 00:59:56,523 --> 00:59:59,147 And I found hundreds of those slides. 1204 00:59:59,596 --> 01:00:01,839 [Mulvoy] Well, what Jule does is working with the photographers. 1205 01:00:01,943 --> 01:00:04,186 They edit everything down to the last couple of hundred pictures. 1206 01:00:04,290 --> 01:00:06,223 Then I look at the last couple hundred pictures with them 1207 01:00:06,326 --> 01:00:10,158 and my art director and Jule and oftentimes the photographer. 1208 01:00:10,261 --> 01:00:13,057 And then pick the pictures from those last couple of hundred. 1209 01:00:13,161 --> 01:00:15,439 They always waited till I left the room. 1210 01:00:15,819 --> 01:00:18,442 I could hear as the door was closing, 1211 01:00:18,545 --> 01:00:21,307 "Oh, my, did you see... Mm. Mm." 1212 01:00:21,410 --> 01:00:24,241 And I think, "Grow up." 1213 01:00:24,344 --> 01:00:29,729 You have to know what I'm dealing with. Boys club. 1214 01:00:29,833 --> 01:00:31,248 Would you try that? Try that. Just... 1215 01:00:31,351 --> 01:00:33,871 [Jule] I didn't show anything I didn't like. 1216 01:00:33,975 --> 01:00:35,873 I had that control. 1217 01:00:35,977 --> 01:00:38,565 [Hagerman] She does have gatekeeping responsibility. 1218 01:00:38,669 --> 01:00:41,638 But are there photos that didn't make it into the Swimsuit Issue 1219 01:00:41,741 --> 01:00:44,641 that she wanted? And so that's huge. 1220 01:00:44,744 --> 01:00:48,023 You've got power. But up to a point. 1221 01:00:50,025 --> 01:00:53,442 I think anonymity is really pretty great. You know. 1222 01:00:53,546 --> 01:00:57,654 I wasn't ever particularly interested in the actual work, 1223 01:00:57,757 --> 01:01:00,415 but I wanted the job. I wanted to do SI. 1224 01:01:02,072 --> 01:01:06,697 Yeah. I hang photos of myself on trees. 1225 01:01:06,801 --> 01:01:10,011 And I just gaze at them adoringly all day long. 1226 01:01:10,114 --> 01:01:11,391 [Jill laughs] 1227 01:01:11,495 --> 01:01:13,773 It's only looking back now 1228 01:01:13,877 --> 01:01:15,706 with the context of MeToo 1229 01:01:15,810 --> 01:01:19,676 and all of us revisiting everything that we normalized so much 1230 01:01:19,779 --> 01:01:22,230 that I can say, "Oh, wow." 1231 01:01:22,851 --> 01:01:24,715 It's my last day here. 1232 01:01:24,819 --> 01:01:26,337 Last day of shooting, I'm leaving tomorrow. 1233 01:01:28,374 --> 01:01:32,136 We're just going to do a shot in the hotel whirlpool because it's cold. 1234 01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,276 Tell me how you feel knowing that this is my last day. 1235 01:01:34,380 --> 01:01:36,175 I know you guys are going to be in mourning. 1236 01:01:37,521 --> 01:01:38,936 [Iooss] She can go home and get her messages. 1237 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,663 "Oh, Stacey, do you want to go eat dinner tomorrow night at Au Bar?" 1238 01:01:41,767 --> 01:01:43,009 "No, I don't want him." 1239 01:01:43,113 --> 01:01:45,149 "Where's the guy I want? No message." 1240 01:01:45,253 --> 01:01:47,531 That's the way it always is, right? 1241 01:01:47,634 --> 01:01:48,394 [Stacey] Are you kidding? 1242 01:01:48,497 --> 01:01:49,706 The ones you want, you can't get. 1243 01:01:50,672 --> 01:01:51,880 There must be men you can't get. 1244 01:01:51,984 --> 01:01:53,468 [Stacey] I don't know, I never met one I couldn't get. 1245 01:01:53,571 --> 01:01:54,745 - [Iooss] Oh, stop. - [Stacey laughs] 1246 01:01:54,849 --> 01:01:56,229 You just met two. 1247 01:01:56,333 --> 01:01:57,748 - [Stacey laughs] - [Iooss] You met two. 1248 01:01:58,162 --> 01:02:00,164 [Iooss] Put it this way Stace, I've intoxicated myself 1249 01:02:00,268 --> 01:02:01,994 every night to the point of oblivion. 1250 01:02:02,097 --> 01:02:03,789 I still haven't knocked on your door. 1251 01:02:03,892 --> 01:02:04,997 [Stacey scoffs] Every night. 1252 01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:06,170 [Iooss] I'm going to show you in a minute why. 1253 01:02:07,137 --> 01:02:08,690 Yeah let's get serious. 1254 01:02:08,794 --> 01:02:11,037 This is not Mecca. 1255 01:02:11,658 --> 01:02:15,179 [Stacey] Hey, listen, after my last few days, it's Mecca, believe me. 1256 01:02:18,769 --> 01:02:19,736 [man] See Stace 1257 01:02:19,839 --> 01:02:21,772 This is, I'm sorry, It's going to hurt. 1258 01:02:21,876 --> 01:02:24,982 But see, that's the reason. I don't have to... 1259 01:02:25,086 --> 01:02:27,985 I get to throw that on the bed and lick her 1260 01:02:28,089 --> 01:02:30,816 into a frenzy any time I want, so 1261 01:02:31,782 --> 01:02:33,888 you know, what do I need you for? 1262 01:02:33,991 --> 01:02:35,890 - [Stacey] Exactly, I agree. - [man] That's right. 1263 01:02:36,545 --> 01:02:38,962 Let's hope she's still there when you get home, loser. 1264 01:02:39,065 --> 01:02:40,308 [man] Good point. 1265 01:02:45,796 --> 01:02:47,211 [Stacey] When I went to Paris 1266 01:02:47,315 --> 01:02:48,937 and I suddenly had to be working with 1267 01:02:49,041 --> 01:02:50,974 all these really famous photographers 1268 01:02:51,077 --> 01:02:53,045 who have been outed, who are notorious rapists, 1269 01:02:53,148 --> 01:02:55,668 who were so inappropriate. 1270 01:02:56,082 --> 01:03:00,984 And my response was always to joke 1271 01:03:01,087 --> 01:03:03,331 or to gross them out. 1272 01:03:03,434 --> 01:03:04,781 And that was a defense 1273 01:03:04,884 --> 01:03:07,404 against that power being taken away from me. 1274 01:03:07,507 --> 01:03:10,476 To make a deal with the devil every single day. 1275 01:03:10,579 --> 01:03:14,169 Just stay like that till the model comes out. 1276 01:03:14,273 --> 01:03:16,793 [Stacey] When I would vent to Jule about that stuff going on, 1277 01:03:16,896 --> 01:03:19,209 she would be outraged and supportive 1278 01:03:19,312 --> 01:03:22,281 and share her own stories and commiserate. 1279 01:03:22,384 --> 01:03:24,766 When you've almost been raped a few times and roofied 1280 01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:26,285 and beaten on the streets in Paris, 1281 01:03:26,388 --> 01:03:29,115 and had photographers exposing themselves to you, 1282 01:03:29,219 --> 01:03:31,704 and the former president groped you in front of Jeffrey Epstein 1283 01:03:31,808 --> 01:03:33,706 and, like, it goes on and on and on. 1284 01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:35,984 Um, yeah, I've got-- 1285 01:03:36,088 --> 01:03:38,090 You know, there's a lot of baggage there, 1286 01:03:38,193 --> 01:03:39,574 so there's a lot to sort through. 1287 01:03:39,677 --> 01:03:42,163 I do remember at one point this argument about, 1288 01:03:42,266 --> 01:03:45,338 "it's a celebration of the female form and everything." 1289 01:03:45,442 --> 01:03:50,999 But who was painting and carving the sculptures? The men. 1290 01:03:55,832 --> 01:03:58,524 - Can we cut to the Jamaica trip? - [Jill] Yes. 1291 01:03:58,627 --> 01:04:00,837 - [Iooss] Let's go to Jamaica. - [Jill] Yeah. 1292 01:04:00,940 --> 01:04:03,253 We had Kim Alexis, Carol Alt, 1293 01:04:03,356 --> 01:04:06,773 and then this phenom coming in. Paulina. 1294 01:04:06,877 --> 01:04:11,261 My assistant, Louis, and I were sitting in the bar in the hotel 1295 01:04:11,364 --> 01:04:12,779 and all we could think about, 1296 01:04:12,883 --> 01:04:14,264 "When is Paulina gonna come in?" 1297 01:04:14,367 --> 01:04:15,541 There's, like, an elderly couple 1298 01:04:15,644 --> 01:04:17,094 sitting over here to our right. 1299 01:04:17,198 --> 01:04:18,682 And this girl walks in. 1300 01:04:18,785 --> 01:04:20,408 And her T-shirt, handwritten, 1301 01:04:20,511 --> 01:04:23,583 "Too drunk to fuck." 1302 01:04:23,687 --> 01:04:25,896 I said, "You're gonna have to take that off. 1303 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,864 Jule's gonna have a heart attack." 1304 01:04:27,967 --> 01:04:30,314 That was the first time I ever met Paulina. 1305 01:04:30,418 --> 01:04:32,696 She's a concert pianist. She could play. 1306 01:04:32,799 --> 01:04:34,387 [playing soft music] 1307 01:04:37,218 --> 01:04:39,876 [plays off-key notes] 1308 01:04:39,979 --> 01:04:41,774 Aha. Hmm. 1309 01:04:41,878 --> 01:04:45,053 This is the piece that I played when we were in Jamaica. 1310 01:04:45,157 --> 01:04:47,745 When I ended, I noticed that was Walter 1311 01:04:47,849 --> 01:04:50,645 and his assistant sitting in the corner. 1312 01:04:52,164 --> 01:04:53,820 "Damn, that's great." 1313 01:04:53,924 --> 01:04:56,478 I think the pot might have had something to do with the fact 1314 01:04:56,582 --> 01:04:59,930 that Walter thought I was such a great pianist. 1315 01:05:01,932 --> 01:05:04,072 [playing delicate music] 1316 01:05:08,145 --> 01:05:12,563 In 1983, I lived in Paris. 1317 01:05:12,667 --> 01:05:15,221 I remember coming into an agency late in the afternoon. 1318 01:05:15,325 --> 01:05:18,535 "Guess what? We think you might have a booking 1319 01:05:18,638 --> 01:05:22,021 for Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. 1320 01:05:22,125 --> 01:05:24,403 And literally, my reaction was like, 1321 01:05:24,506 --> 01:05:27,440 "[groans] I don't do tennis clothes, okay?" 1322 01:05:27,544 --> 01:05:29,926 And they're like, "No, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. 1323 01:05:30,029 --> 01:05:32,514 We're not talking about tennis clothes here. We're talking about..." 1324 01:05:32,618 --> 01:05:35,138 And then, of course, they went into a lengthy explanation 1325 01:05:35,241 --> 01:05:39,936 of what the Swimsuit Issue meant in the United States. 1326 01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:42,007 And then, of course, enter famous story. 1327 01:05:42,110 --> 01:05:44,250 [stylist] What were you doing in Jamaica? 1328 01:05:44,354 --> 01:05:48,565 Um, Sports Illustrated, the bathing suits issue, 1329 01:05:48,668 --> 01:05:50,670 you know, the very sexy one. 1330 01:05:50,774 --> 01:05:53,087 But they was... They were almost ready to throw... 1331 01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:56,538 I mean, to send me back after the first night. 1332 01:05:56,642 --> 01:05:57,815 Well, why? 1333 01:05:57,919 --> 01:06:01,233 Because I wore a very indecent T-shirt. 1334 01:06:01,336 --> 01:06:05,133 Well, I would think a pretty girl could wear what she wanted to to any hotel. 1335 01:06:05,237 --> 01:06:07,377 Well, there was a text on the white T-shirt. 1336 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:12,037 Oh. [chuckles] Well, what'd it say? 1337 01:06:12,140 --> 01:06:13,555 "Too drunk to fuck." 1338 01:06:14,453 --> 01:06:15,350 Were you? 1339 01:06:16,317 --> 01:06:17,214 Never. 1340 01:06:17,318 --> 01:06:19,492 [hard rock music playing] 1341 01:06:22,323 --> 01:06:24,325 [Jule] She was a naughty girl, 1342 01:06:24,428 --> 01:06:28,570 but I got along with her, and we became friends. 1343 01:06:28,674 --> 01:06:31,711 [Jule] We have to take some comedic pictures of Paulina 1344 01:06:31,815 --> 01:06:33,230 because she's got the best humor. 1345 01:06:33,334 --> 01:06:36,716 [whimsical music playing] 1346 01:06:36,820 --> 01:06:40,513 She was a natural beauty with a very dirty mouth. 1347 01:06:40,617 --> 01:06:43,206 [laughing] 1348 01:06:43,309 --> 01:06:44,655 She used to surprise me. 1349 01:06:44,759 --> 01:06:47,658 She was like an angel with a foul mouth. 1350 01:06:48,901 --> 01:06:52,422 [Porizkova] This was my idea to tie my hair with my bra 1351 01:06:52,525 --> 01:06:54,734 because I was always running around topless. 1352 01:06:54,838 --> 01:06:57,875 And then Jule was like, "Hey, why don't we... 1353 01:06:57,979 --> 01:06:59,463 Why don't we do a shot of that?" 1354 01:06:59,567 --> 01:07:02,639 The palm leaf was Walter's inspiration. 1355 01:07:03,088 --> 01:07:06,643 This is the girl I was then. You know? 1356 01:07:06,746 --> 01:07:08,679 It's one of the best pictures I've ever taken. 1357 01:07:08,783 --> 01:07:10,785 [mellow music playing] 1358 01:07:13,615 --> 01:07:15,376 [Porizkova] And this is what Jule taught me. 1359 01:07:15,479 --> 01:07:17,274 When you have a bikini on, 1360 01:07:17,378 --> 01:07:22,624 all you have to do is embrace your body and who you are. 1361 01:07:22,728 --> 01:07:25,938 And there is such a sense of freedom to that. 1362 01:07:26,042 --> 01:07:27,284 [Letterman] Do you find that models 1363 01:07:27,388 --> 01:07:28,734 tend to be vain and shallow 1364 01:07:28,837 --> 01:07:30,080 - and superficial? - Absolutely. 1365 01:07:30,184 --> 01:07:31,495 - Oh, really? - Hm. 1366 01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:34,119 But you don't include yourself in that category. 1367 01:07:34,222 --> 01:07:35,672 Of course not. I don't think of myself as a model. 1368 01:07:35,775 --> 01:07:37,812 Oh, really? What do you think of yourself as? 1369 01:07:37,915 --> 01:07:40,228 - Human being, Dave. - Well, see that. 1370 01:07:40,332 --> 01:07:42,472 [audience laughing and applauding] 1371 01:07:43,749 --> 01:07:45,233 Human being. 1372 01:07:45,337 --> 01:07:46,890 [Porizkova] It's so funny because the shots 1373 01:07:46,993 --> 01:07:48,409 are so much less overt. 1374 01:07:48,512 --> 01:07:51,860 They're so much less sexually, whatever, explicit, 1375 01:07:51,964 --> 01:07:53,172 or whatever it is these days. 1376 01:07:53,276 --> 01:07:54,898 But this is where we get to 1377 01:07:55,001 --> 01:07:56,106 how times have changed. 1378 01:07:56,210 --> 01:08:01,180 We have, I think, evolved as a society 1379 01:08:01,284 --> 01:08:03,493 and things that were absolutely normal 1380 01:08:03,596 --> 01:08:06,841 and acceptable 40 years ago no longer are. 1381 01:08:06,944 --> 01:08:09,085 And I always just speak from personal experience 1382 01:08:09,188 --> 01:08:12,847 that, to me, when I felt objectified, 1383 01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:17,852 it was because I didn't have a say in how I was portrayed. 1384 01:08:17,955 --> 01:08:24,583 Now, when I put myself out in a bikini or nothing, 1385 01:08:24,686 --> 01:08:25,791 that's my choice. 1386 01:08:25,894 --> 01:08:29,070 To me, it's objectification or celebration. 1387 01:08:29,174 --> 01:08:31,072 Can it be both at the same time? 1388 01:08:31,176 --> 01:08:32,625 I don't see why not. 1389 01:08:32,729 --> 01:08:34,731 We have been taught 1390 01:08:34,834 --> 01:08:38,700 that our bodies are valuable if they're pretty. 1391 01:08:38,804 --> 01:08:41,496 So, then, if you exhibit that body, 1392 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,569 you are technically objectifying yourself, 1393 01:08:45,673 --> 01:08:47,709 but you're also celebrating yourself. 1394 01:08:47,813 --> 01:08:52,162 We, as women, this is what we have been given as our powers, 1395 01:08:52,266 --> 01:08:54,440 and then we are shamed for using them. 1396 01:08:54,544 --> 01:09:00,239 Well, women will be shamed for everything, won't they? 1397 01:09:00,343 --> 01:09:02,345 [playing soft music] 1398 01:09:05,658 --> 01:09:07,384 - [Jill] Whoo! - I got through that one 1399 01:09:07,488 --> 01:09:10,629 without fucking up once. Yes. Whoo! 1400 01:09:11,181 --> 01:09:13,218 [MacCambridge] It was under Mulvoy that the thing went 1401 01:09:13,321 --> 01:09:14,598 from being 20 pages 1402 01:09:14,702 --> 01:09:17,601 to being 36 or 40 pages all of a sudden. 1403 01:09:17,705 --> 01:09:19,914 [Jules] Well, Mark was the one who made it larger 1404 01:09:20,017 --> 01:09:21,778 right off the bat. 1405 01:09:22,192 --> 01:09:24,298 In 1984, when I did get the magazine, 1406 01:09:24,401 --> 01:09:25,609 I set out to do several things. 1407 01:09:25,713 --> 01:09:27,404 I wanted to redesign the magazine. 1408 01:09:27,508 --> 01:09:29,544 I wanted to run pictures larger. 1409 01:09:29,648 --> 01:09:31,581 And I think, in very small order, 1410 01:09:31,684 --> 01:09:35,343 we doubled and tripled the size of the annual Swimsuit Issue. 1411 01:09:35,447 --> 01:09:38,104 This year has to sell more than last year. 1412 01:09:38,208 --> 01:09:39,761 That pressure was always there. 1413 01:09:39,865 --> 01:09:44,387 1975, seven pages. 1973, seven pages. 1414 01:09:44,490 --> 01:09:47,183 Here we have... I think it was 48. I lost count. 1415 01:09:47,286 --> 01:09:48,667 [Elle] Most of the advertising 1416 01:09:48,770 --> 01:09:51,428 that was invested into the business the whole year 1417 01:09:51,532 --> 01:09:55,467 came from the interest driven by that particular issue. 1418 01:09:55,570 --> 01:09:57,262 So, we had a lot of pressure on us 1419 01:09:57,365 --> 01:09:58,884 to perform to a certain extent. 1420 01:09:58,987 --> 01:10:00,610 I know Jule did, too. 1421 01:10:00,713 --> 01:10:02,370 Sports Illustrated putting out 1422 01:10:02,474 --> 01:10:05,373 its 25th anniversary Swimsuit Issue. 1423 01:10:05,477 --> 01:10:07,444 Rather than the normal several pages 1424 01:10:07,548 --> 01:10:08,756 that they have once a year, 1425 01:10:08,859 --> 01:10:11,172 they put out a special entire issue. 1426 01:10:11,276 --> 01:10:12,622 And I remember going to the ad people 1427 01:10:12,725 --> 01:10:14,520 and said, "Listen, I need a lot of pages." 1428 01:10:14,624 --> 01:10:18,144 You put 30 or 40 or 50 more pages with swimsuits, 1429 01:10:18,248 --> 01:10:21,458 and you sell a couple of million copies on the newsstand. 1430 01:10:21,562 --> 01:10:22,804 That's a lot of money. 1431 01:10:22,908 --> 01:10:26,152 [Saralegui] Jule was able to take this idea 1432 01:10:26,256 --> 01:10:27,947 and migrate it 1433 01:10:28,051 --> 01:10:30,916 to all of these different platforms successfully. 1434 01:10:32,158 --> 01:10:34,057 [reporter] This year, the photo spread is the subject 1435 01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,335 of a new $1 million documentary. 1436 01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,027 We've already pre-sold 600,000 cassettes. 1437 01:10:39,131 --> 01:10:46,276 [Brinkley] Jule got Hemmingway's tracker to fulfill her vision. 1438 01:10:46,380 --> 01:10:49,210 Knee on the roof, elephants around me, 1439 01:10:49,314 --> 01:10:51,419 ears flapping, and all of that. 1440 01:10:51,937 --> 01:10:54,767 I think Alexa was there because right before the trip, 1441 01:10:54,871 --> 01:11:00,911 I lost my nanny. And Jule's like, "Bring her with us." 1442 01:11:01,015 --> 01:11:04,743 The tracker was telling us, "If you were to get between 1443 01:11:04,846 --> 01:11:09,472 the mother and the baby elephant, she will be angry. 1444 01:11:09,575 --> 01:11:11,646 So, the only thing you can do 1445 01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:16,306 to calm an enraged elephant is to purr. 1446 01:11:16,410 --> 01:11:18,895 But if you don't soothe the elephant, 1447 01:11:18,998 --> 01:11:24,003 they will roll your car over again and again 1448 01:11:24,107 --> 01:11:30,527 until they know that everyone on the inside is dead." 1449 01:11:30,976 --> 01:11:35,670 Okay. All right, well, let's go find some elephants. 1450 01:11:35,774 --> 01:11:38,017 John Zimmerman is in the vehicle 1451 01:11:38,121 --> 01:11:40,986 right behind me with his lens, 1452 01:11:41,089 --> 01:11:42,953 and Alexa was in my vehicle. 1453 01:11:43,057 --> 01:11:46,854 - [trumpeting] - And we come through these bushes. 1454 01:11:46,957 --> 01:11:52,031 Right in the middle of the mama elephant and the baby. 1455 01:11:52,135 --> 01:11:54,896 [Jule] Oh, he's doing things with his trunk. Nice. 1456 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,418 [Brinkley] And the mama elephant is mad as hell. 1457 01:11:59,522 --> 01:12:01,006 [Jule] Here he comes. 1458 01:12:02,628 --> 01:12:04,009 [Zimmerman] It's okay, Christie. 1459 01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:11,016 [Brinkley] Hemingway's tracker says, "Start purring." 1460 01:12:11,637 --> 01:12:14,157 And I'm like, "Purr. 1461 01:12:14,260 --> 01:12:16,090 Purr." 1462 01:12:16,193 --> 01:12:18,368 [purring] 1463 01:12:20,577 --> 01:12:22,579 Jule's like, "Good, good." 1464 01:12:22,683 --> 01:12:24,650 So, I was like, "Protect my baby. 1465 01:12:24,754 --> 01:12:26,169 Purr. 1466 01:12:26,272 --> 01:12:27,446 I don't know about this." 1467 01:12:27,550 --> 01:12:29,517 [man] Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. 1468 01:12:29,621 --> 01:12:30,725 [elephant trumpets] 1469 01:12:30,829 --> 01:12:32,209 [Jule] Go away. 1470 01:12:32,658 --> 01:12:35,005 - Let's go. This is ridiculous. - [Zimmerman] Hey, Sam. 1471 01:12:35,109 --> 01:12:38,630 [Brinkley] I love elephants and I would do anything for them. 1472 01:12:38,733 --> 01:12:40,735 - [Jule] She's got the baby. - [Brinkley] But at that moment, 1473 01:12:40,839 --> 01:12:43,876 I was a mama protecting my baby. 1474 01:12:43,980 --> 01:12:46,016 [dramatic music playing] 1475 01:12:49,813 --> 01:12:52,471 [reporter 1] Swimsuit video sales at $19.95 a cassette 1476 01:12:52,575 --> 01:12:54,922 could reach $15 million. 1477 01:12:55,025 --> 01:12:57,407 Another money maker: swimsuit calendars. 1478 01:12:57,511 --> 01:12:59,340 The grand total for the Swimsuit Issue? 1479 01:12:59,444 --> 01:13:01,135 More than $32.5 million, 1480 01:13:01,238 --> 01:13:04,483 or about 1/3 of SI's profit for all of last year. 1481 01:13:04,587 --> 01:13:06,692 [dramatic music continues] 1482 01:13:09,246 --> 01:13:12,111 [reporter 2] How many photographs do you suppose are taken? 1483 01:13:12,215 --> 01:13:14,942 [Jule] Are you ready? Ninety thousand slides. 1484 01:13:15,045 --> 01:13:16,944 - Ninety thousand? - Approximately, yeah. 1485 01:13:17,047 --> 01:13:18,739 Is this going to be an annual event 1486 01:13:18,842 --> 01:13:21,051 where you'll, in effect, put out an extra issue? 1487 01:13:21,155 --> 01:13:24,192 - I hope not. - You hope not. Because of the work involved? 1488 01:13:24,296 --> 01:13:26,678 [Mulvoy] Once you do that, you can't say, "We're not doing it next year." 1489 01:13:26,781 --> 01:13:28,473 Well, excuse me? How else... 1490 01:13:28,576 --> 01:13:30,854 You know, we're accustomed to making a lot of money. 1491 01:13:30,958 --> 01:13:33,167 That made more money, that single issue, 1492 01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:35,341 than Time magazine made all year. 1493 01:13:35,445 --> 01:13:37,033 [keypad beeping] 1494 01:13:37,136 --> 01:13:39,518 [telephones ringing] 1495 01:13:40,036 --> 01:13:42,866 - [man 1] Sports Illustrated senior editor. - [man 2] Senior editor. 1496 01:13:42,970 --> 01:13:44,730 - [woman] Jule Campbell. - [man 3] Jule Campbell. 1497 01:13:44,834 --> 01:13:46,283 [man 4] Jule Campbell, senior editor 1498 01:13:46,387 --> 01:13:48,734 of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. 1499 01:13:49,114 --> 01:13:51,806 Managing editor told me he was going to fire her. 1500 01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:55,638 I said, "Why would you fire her before her 25th anniversary?" 1501 01:13:56,604 --> 01:13:58,434 He said, "cost." 1502 01:13:58,537 --> 01:14:01,644 What, for Paulina? Yeah. I can't wait. 1503 01:14:01,747 --> 01:14:03,887 You know, I'm in a real, real bind. 1504 01:14:03,991 --> 01:14:07,443 I can't do that anymore, you know, it's my people. 1505 01:14:07,546 --> 01:14:09,479 [Jule] I don't make that much money. 1506 01:14:09,583 --> 01:14:12,517 I have been offered so many jobs through the years. 1507 01:14:12,620 --> 01:14:15,692 I told Mark this when I used to ask him for raises. 1508 01:14:15,796 --> 01:14:17,383 Look at the money she is making for SI, 1509 01:14:17,487 --> 01:14:20,179 Why does she stay there unless she's making a lot of money? 1510 01:14:20,559 --> 01:14:24,874 It's been very bad. I know I am the lowest paid Senior Editor there. 1511 01:14:25,391 --> 01:14:28,878 And it's taken a lot out of my heart. 1512 01:14:29,292 --> 01:14:33,469 She was such an important piece of that company's success. 1513 01:14:33,572 --> 01:14:37,403 Would have been nice to see her have some sort of interest in the business, 1514 01:14:37,507 --> 01:14:39,198 but at those times, you know, you didn't. 1515 01:14:39,302 --> 01:14:40,648 And even for my lingerie business, 1516 01:14:40,752 --> 01:14:42,857 I didn't have an interest in the business either. 1517 01:14:42,961 --> 01:14:46,136 I'm sure it was horrible for her, 1518 01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,727 all the politics involved in being a woman in a man's world. 1519 01:14:50,831 --> 01:14:52,384 I couldn't have done it. 1520 01:14:52,488 --> 01:14:54,731 Do you like a dominant man? 1521 01:14:54,835 --> 01:14:55,870 - A dominant man? - Yeah. 1522 01:14:55,974 --> 01:14:57,562 What do you mean by dominant? 1523 01:14:57,665 --> 01:14:59,598 You mean, like, bigger than me 1524 01:14:59,702 --> 01:15:02,221 or just dominant up here? 1525 01:15:02,325 --> 01:15:04,603 I got exclusive interviews with many of the models 1526 01:15:04,707 --> 01:15:05,846 in this intimate setting. 1527 01:15:05,949 --> 01:15:08,711 Just a chance to chat with them. 1528 01:15:09,090 --> 01:15:11,161 [Stacey] It was a bit of a zoo once it came out. 1529 01:15:11,265 --> 01:15:12,542 And we had those... 1530 01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:15,234 big parties, 1531 01:15:15,338 --> 01:15:18,375 and I'd always have to do tons of radio interviews, 1532 01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:19,825 all those shock jocks and stuff, 1533 01:15:19,929 --> 01:15:23,449 and they'd be so disgusting and sexist and... 1534 01:15:23,553 --> 01:15:24,623 [host] Are you ready to try this? 1535 01:15:24,727 --> 01:15:26,556 - Ready. - Stacey. Have at it. 1536 01:15:26,660 --> 01:15:28,869 Well, Ingrid and I were just trying to figure out 1537 01:15:28,972 --> 01:15:31,561 how to warm you up on this cold February morning. 1538 01:15:31,665 --> 01:15:33,977 And then it came to us. Hardball. 1539 01:15:34,081 --> 01:15:36,497 - [reporter 1] You're unmarried. - Yes, I'm unmarried, but I'm-- 1540 01:15:36,601 --> 01:15:38,430 Which athlete would you marry? 1541 01:15:38,534 --> 01:15:40,570 [reporter 2] Did you mean it when you wrote "love and kisses" 1542 01:15:40,674 --> 01:15:42,089 on a poster to me? 1543 01:15:42,192 --> 01:15:43,331 - [chuckles] - Come on. 1544 01:15:43,435 --> 01:15:44,885 How can you ask me such a thing? 1545 01:15:44,988 --> 01:15:47,301 They really didn't realize they were being offensive. 1546 01:15:47,404 --> 01:15:48,820 It was just the way the culture was. 1547 01:15:48,923 --> 01:15:51,339 [host] Do you feel comfortable fully dressed in a suit? 1548 01:15:51,443 --> 01:15:53,238 [giggles] Yeah, I do. 1549 01:15:53,341 --> 01:15:55,102 What is it that you look for? 1550 01:15:55,481 --> 01:15:59,140 Oh, I look for intelligence, believe it or not, first, 1551 01:15:59,244 --> 01:16:03,489 and naturalness and how people project. 1552 01:16:03,593 --> 01:16:05,388 Those are three important things. 1553 01:16:05,491 --> 01:16:07,148 And I look at figures, too. 1554 01:16:07,252 --> 01:16:10,600 I would suspect. I mean, isn't that what the-- 1555 01:16:10,704 --> 01:16:13,569 I mean, this issue sells a multiple. 1556 01:16:13,672 --> 01:16:15,640 I mean, what, 25 times or 40 times 1557 01:16:15,743 --> 01:16:17,469 what a normal issue on the newsstands sells? 1558 01:16:17,573 --> 01:16:20,679 - You bet. - And I would suspect it is not 1559 01:16:21,473 --> 01:16:22,750 intelligence, whatever, 1560 01:16:22,854 --> 01:16:24,269 - is it, that most people-- - Yeah, it helps. 1561 01:16:24,372 --> 01:16:25,546 I'm sure you know this. 1562 01:16:25,650 --> 01:16:26,685 In front of the camera, 1563 01:16:26,789 --> 01:16:29,205 if you have a beautiful face, 1564 01:16:29,308 --> 01:16:33,036 but if she doesn't understand what you're trying to do, 1565 01:16:33,140 --> 01:16:35,245 you're through shooting in an hour. 1566 01:16:35,349 --> 01:16:37,282 [pensive music playing] 1567 01:16:45,221 --> 01:16:46,463 [Jill] Are you bored? 1568 01:16:46,567 --> 01:16:50,433 [Jule] Bored? No, I'm never bored. 1569 01:16:50,536 --> 01:16:52,331 I'm agitated lots of times 1570 01:16:52,435 --> 01:16:56,197 because I can't do the things I used to do 1571 01:16:56,301 --> 01:16:59,511 if I were a normal person again. 1572 01:16:59,615 --> 01:17:02,445 I don't feel like a normal person anymore. 1573 01:17:02,548 --> 01:17:04,861 I feel like a shell. 1574 01:17:08,485 --> 01:17:10,798 But I'm very grateful I'm a shell. 1575 01:17:10,902 --> 01:17:14,250 I could be a piece of dust, too. [chuckles] 1576 01:17:14,353 --> 01:17:16,597 [Jill] Are you losing your memory, do you think? 1577 01:17:16,701 --> 01:17:18,392 Are you scared of that? 1578 01:17:18,495 --> 01:17:23,639 No. I think as you get older, you get more memory. 1579 01:17:24,018 --> 01:17:26,020 Because there are a lot of things 1580 01:17:26,124 --> 01:17:29,748 that were wonderful or horrible, 1581 01:17:29,852 --> 01:17:33,718 but you never had the time to relive them. 1582 01:17:34,132 --> 01:17:38,412 Very often, I can sit there in my chair. And I'm alone, 1583 01:17:38,515 --> 01:17:41,760 and I decide what I wanna think about that day. 1584 01:17:41,864 --> 01:17:44,073 [pensive music continues] 1585 01:17:45,695 --> 01:17:47,248 [kids laughing] 1586 01:17:55,015 --> 01:17:59,675 [Banks] Oftentimes, beauty is dictated by the powers that be. 1587 01:17:59,778 --> 01:18:01,228 And historically, the powers that be 1588 01:18:01,331 --> 01:18:04,680 had a lot of power to dictate what beauty was. 1589 01:18:05,646 --> 01:18:09,063 Beauty is true diversity. 1590 01:18:09,167 --> 01:18:11,583 [Jule] It took a lot of heat because in the early years, 1591 01:18:11,687 --> 01:18:14,517 I didn't have any African American models. 1592 01:18:14,620 --> 01:18:18,348 And I had to fight that all the way. 1593 01:18:18,452 --> 01:18:20,143 Now I can talk about it, 1594 01:18:20,247 --> 01:18:23,146 but it was very, very, very difficult. 1595 01:18:24,941 --> 01:18:29,014 [Alt] Jule always had Black girls, Spanish girls, 1596 01:18:29,532 --> 01:18:31,016 all ethnicities. 1597 01:18:33,329 --> 01:18:36,746 I'm talking about the '60s, the '70s and the '80s, 1598 01:18:36,850 --> 01:18:39,266 when this wasn't even spoken about. 1599 01:18:39,369 --> 01:18:40,819 By the way, back then, 1600 01:18:40,923 --> 01:18:43,132 a brunette was something unusual. 1601 01:18:43,235 --> 01:18:44,823 So, we've come a really long way. 1602 01:18:44,927 --> 01:18:47,136 [funky music playing] 1603 01:18:54,591 --> 01:19:00,321 I did not see myself as the all-American girl, but Jule did. 1604 01:19:01,667 --> 01:19:03,669 The fashion runways, you know, 1605 01:19:03,773 --> 01:19:07,328 similar looking ladies like me were there. That was acceptable. 1606 01:19:07,432 --> 01:19:10,400 But Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? 1607 01:19:11,194 --> 01:19:12,402 Come on. 1608 01:19:12,506 --> 01:19:14,232 The response to having 1609 01:19:14,335 --> 01:19:16,786 a natural Black woman in it was incredible. 1610 01:19:16,890 --> 01:19:18,857 - What do you mean, natural? - Meaning someone 1611 01:19:18,961 --> 01:19:22,205 who, when you see me, you know that I'm a Black woman. 1612 01:19:22,309 --> 01:19:24,621 [Roshumba] Jule made me a standard of beauty. 1613 01:19:24,725 --> 01:19:29,040 A woman that's considered desirable, inspirational. 1614 01:19:29,143 --> 01:19:30,904 You can aspire to be that. 1615 01:19:34,010 --> 01:19:35,356 [Naomi] There's 10 people in a commercial, 1616 01:19:35,460 --> 01:19:38,014 and you see, like, nine Caucasian people 1617 01:19:38,118 --> 01:19:40,292 and one ethnic person. 1618 01:19:40,396 --> 01:19:43,986 That's where you know you're only gonna get one chance. 1619 01:19:44,918 --> 01:19:46,333 [photographer] Okay. 1620 01:19:47,058 --> 01:19:48,714 I hated the picture. 1621 01:19:48,818 --> 01:19:52,857 The first one. Oh, my God, I hated it so bad. 1622 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:54,479 I was in the Florida Keys. 1623 01:19:54,582 --> 01:19:57,965 I was leaning against some bushes or something 1624 01:19:58,069 --> 01:20:00,174 in this one-piece swimsuit. Like... 1625 01:20:00,278 --> 01:20:02,418 [Jill] Was that it? [laughs] 1626 01:20:02,521 --> 01:20:04,938 I did not like this picture. What is wrong with me? 1627 01:20:05,041 --> 01:20:08,217 I like this picture now. That is so interesting, right? 1628 01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:10,736 Maybe Jule wanted to preserve a little bit of, like, 1629 01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:12,221 young innocence or something. 1630 01:20:12,324 --> 01:20:13,774 And I wanted be like Paulina, like, 1631 01:20:13,878 --> 01:20:16,673 ooh, and wet in the water, you know? 1632 01:20:16,777 --> 01:20:18,227 And so I think I didn't appreciate it. 1633 01:20:18,330 --> 01:20:20,401 But now as an adult, I think it's very sweet. 1634 01:20:20,505 --> 01:20:22,300 No wonder my mama... My mama loved this picture. 1635 01:20:22,403 --> 01:20:25,821 Jule wasn't the type of person who wanted to check a box. 1636 01:20:25,924 --> 01:20:29,169 She spent her time developing a concept. 1637 01:20:29,272 --> 01:20:32,206 Her vision was the blueprint 1638 01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:35,865 for what we're seeing today as far as standards of beauty. 1639 01:20:35,969 --> 01:20:40,145 She was pushing with Roshumba, with natural hair. 1640 01:20:40,249 --> 01:20:44,287 Forty years later, natural hair is having its moment. 1641 01:20:44,391 --> 01:20:46,911 And she was doing it in the '80s, 1642 01:20:47,014 --> 01:20:50,155 when it was all about artifice and everything 1643 01:20:50,259 --> 01:20:53,987 and really celebrating Roshumba's natural beauty. 1644 01:20:54,090 --> 01:20:56,541 Right now, brands and society 1645 01:20:56,644 --> 01:21:00,545 are forced to have diversity and inclusion in fashion, 1646 01:21:00,648 --> 01:21:02,788 because if they don't, they get called out. 1647 01:21:02,892 --> 01:21:07,586 MJ Day was doing it right before the power of social media, 1648 01:21:07,690 --> 01:21:11,280 and Jule Campbell was doing it when it didn't exist. 1649 01:21:11,383 --> 01:21:15,698 I always say that if you don't see it, 1650 01:21:15,801 --> 01:21:17,665 it's kind of hard to dream it. 1651 01:21:17,769 --> 01:21:20,979 I hadn't seen Black girls on the cover of huge magazines 1652 01:21:21,083 --> 01:21:22,463 like the Sports Illustrated. 1653 01:21:23,326 --> 01:21:25,535 1996. 1654 01:21:25,639 --> 01:21:27,606 Dang, look at that. 1655 01:21:28,987 --> 01:21:30,506 [Iooss] It was just howling there. 1656 01:21:30,609 --> 01:21:33,060 The wind was insane down there on the beaches. 1657 01:21:33,164 --> 01:21:34,751 I said, "Just start swirling around." 1658 01:21:34,855 --> 01:21:36,512 And they started to have fun. 1659 01:21:36,615 --> 01:21:39,515 And one image out of all those pictures worked. 1660 01:21:39,618 --> 01:21:43,726 I feel like Jule was being political with this. 1661 01:21:43,829 --> 01:21:46,763 This is not just two girls, you know, 1662 01:21:46,867 --> 01:21:51,044 on the sand in South Africa. Apartheid had just ended. 1663 01:21:51,147 --> 01:21:53,425 You know, this is her putting a Black girl 1664 01:21:53,529 --> 01:21:56,946 and a white girl together in South Africa and saying, "What? 1665 01:21:57,050 --> 01:21:58,223 What? What, America? What?" 1666 01:21:58,327 --> 01:21:59,880 Like she was a little bit of a gangster. 1667 01:21:59,984 --> 01:22:01,571 This is a gangster move right here. 1668 01:22:01,986 --> 01:22:04,367 The moment this cover came out. 1669 01:22:04,471 --> 01:22:06,266 - [photographer 1] Tyra! - [photographer 2] Stacey, over here! 1670 01:22:06,369 --> 01:22:08,371 [photographer 3] Everybody in the center, please! 1671 01:22:08,475 --> 01:22:11,133 "Dude, that's Tyra. Oh, my God. Super hot." 1672 01:22:11,236 --> 01:22:14,377 Gave everybody permission to say that Black is beautiful, 1673 01:22:14,481 --> 01:22:16,897 because it is beautiful, always has been. 1674 01:22:17,001 --> 01:22:18,519 But I think there was something about 1675 01:22:18,623 --> 01:22:20,487 being on the cover of this magazine that made us say, 1676 01:22:20,590 --> 01:22:22,351 "Yes, it's okay to acknowledge that." 1677 01:22:22,454 --> 01:22:24,042 Turn your head, take a look. Yes. 1678 01:22:24,146 --> 01:22:25,526 Because it's just as beautiful 1679 01:22:25,630 --> 01:22:28,460 as the white girl standing next door to you. 1680 01:22:28,564 --> 01:22:30,946 The all-American girl can be Black. 1681 01:22:31,049 --> 01:22:33,051 Because she is. 1682 01:22:33,155 --> 01:22:35,778 It's one of my favorite covers. 1683 01:22:35,881 --> 01:22:39,092 It works. It says a lot of things. 1684 01:22:40,956 --> 01:22:45,063 I always feel like it's the last time I'm gonna see you. 1685 01:22:45,546 --> 01:22:49,067 It's not gonna be the last time because you're in amazing shape. 1686 01:22:49,171 --> 01:22:51,276 [melancholy music playing] 1687 01:22:53,727 --> 01:22:55,901 [Jule] I don't want you to feel obligated. 1688 01:22:56,005 --> 01:22:57,213 [Jill] We love it. 1689 01:22:57,317 --> 01:22:59,975 - Jule. - [Jule] Sorry I'm crying. 1690 01:23:02,598 --> 01:23:06,084 [nurse] Rapid response team, three reps, nurses' station. 1691 01:23:06,188 --> 01:23:11,020 [Jule] I fell to the floor. Stupid. 1692 01:23:11,641 --> 01:23:16,405 What'll they do, take my brain out, fix it and put it back? 1693 01:23:16,508 --> 01:23:19,615 [Jill] Just your hip, not your brain. 1694 01:23:20,202 --> 01:23:22,721 - [Jule] You'll be here when I wake up? - [Jill] I will be here. 1695 01:23:22,825 --> 01:23:24,620 - They're gonna call me. - [Jule] If I wake up. 1696 01:23:24,723 --> 01:23:28,520 - [Jill] You will wake up. Okay? - [Jule] Thank you. 1697 01:23:28,624 --> 01:23:30,143 [kissing sounds] 1698 01:23:30,246 --> 01:23:31,972 God bless you. 1699 01:23:32,076 --> 01:23:34,181 [emotional music playing] 1700 01:23:52,510 --> 01:23:54,960 [Jule] Our Father who art in heaven, 1701 01:23:55,064 --> 01:23:56,514 hallowed be thy name, 1702 01:23:57,549 --> 01:23:59,862 thy kingdom come, thy will be done 1703 01:23:59,965 --> 01:24:02,244 on earth as it is in heaven. 1704 01:24:02,347 --> 01:24:05,730 Give us this day our daily bread... 1705 01:24:06,317 --> 01:24:08,388 - [Bruce] The other one broke. - What a difference. 1706 01:24:08,491 --> 01:24:12,150 [Bruce] Michelle's helping reorganize things a little bit. 1707 01:24:12,254 --> 01:24:13,565 Just getting started to-- 1708 01:24:13,669 --> 01:24:15,602 Kick the leg. You're doing it wrong. 1709 01:24:15,705 --> 01:24:19,330 - From the knee. Hold that down. - Watch me. Yeah, just... 1710 01:24:19,433 --> 01:24:21,021 - Yeah. - Like that. Yeah. 1711 01:24:21,125 --> 01:24:22,540 - Yeah. - Hold the leg. 1712 01:24:22,643 --> 01:24:24,231 - Yeah. Good. - Hm? 1713 01:24:24,335 --> 01:24:28,304 - Your muscles feel strong. - Well, that's her good leg. 1714 01:24:28,408 --> 01:24:30,893 The other one is the one she broke her hips. 1715 01:24:30,996 --> 01:24:32,446 That's the bad leg. 1716 01:24:32,550 --> 01:24:34,138 Does it hurt? 1717 01:24:34,241 --> 01:24:35,863 - No. - That's good. 1718 01:24:37,589 --> 01:24:41,628 [Jule] The only thing I'm grateful for 1719 01:24:41,731 --> 01:24:45,390 is that I haven't lost my memory. 1720 01:24:45,494 --> 01:24:48,807 I know I forget things and so forth, 1721 01:24:48,911 --> 01:24:50,292 but I don't think I forget things 1722 01:24:50,395 --> 01:24:52,880 more than anyone else my age. 1723 01:24:55,331 --> 01:24:59,024 - [Roshumba laughing] Oh, my God. - Get out of my yard. 1724 01:24:59,128 --> 01:25:01,613 [Roshumba laughing] 1725 01:25:01,717 --> 01:25:02,994 [Stacey] Oh, my goodness. 1726 01:25:03,098 --> 01:25:04,375 [Roshumba] I can just remember Jule 1727 01:25:04,478 --> 01:25:06,446 always trying to push the envelope. 1728 01:25:06,549 --> 01:25:08,103 I remember she would always ask me, 1729 01:25:08,206 --> 01:25:10,105 "What are you going to do after modeling?" 1730 01:25:10,208 --> 01:25:13,038 "Save your pennies." - Yes, save your pennies. 1731 01:25:13,142 --> 01:25:15,040 - [Jill] Say "Hi" to her. - Hi. 1732 01:25:15,489 --> 01:25:18,147 - [Jule] Thank you. - Oh, my God. [gasps] 1733 01:25:18,251 --> 01:25:20,080 - Jule. - [Jule] Hello? 1734 01:25:20,184 --> 01:25:23,704 Hi, Jules. Guess who's on the phone? 1735 01:25:23,808 --> 01:25:29,710 It's Roshumba and Stacey. The Williams sisters. 1736 01:25:30,090 --> 01:25:33,128 Oh, I love you, Jule. How are you? 1737 01:25:34,094 --> 01:25:36,234 [Jule] I'm alive, honey. [laughs] 1738 01:25:36,338 --> 01:25:39,410 - Aw. - And I'm pretty good. 1739 01:25:39,513 --> 01:25:41,101 - [Stacey chuckles] - Thankfully. 1740 01:25:41,205 --> 01:25:42,965 We were just talking about you, 1741 01:25:43,068 --> 01:25:44,415 and how much you loved us 1742 01:25:44,518 --> 01:25:46,589 and made us feel beautiful and strong. 1743 01:25:46,693 --> 01:25:48,488 - [Jules] You're making me cry. - Aw. 1744 01:25:48,591 --> 01:25:51,422 - I love you so much. - I love you, too, Jule. 1745 01:25:51,525 --> 01:25:52,699 You were one of the only ones 1746 01:25:52,802 --> 01:25:54,563 - where I didn't feel like... - Yes. 1747 01:25:54,666 --> 01:25:57,048 I had to sort of diminish myself 1748 01:25:57,152 --> 01:26:00,155 um, spiritually, physically, or, you know, intellectually. 1749 01:26:00,258 --> 01:26:01,156 - Right? - That's true. 1750 01:26:01,259 --> 01:26:02,812 Thank you for your vision, 1751 01:26:02,916 --> 01:26:07,403 and seeing and looking forward and always wanting to diversify. 1752 01:26:07,507 --> 01:26:10,820 I understand now what you were trying to do then, 1753 01:26:10,924 --> 01:26:15,135 - and thank you. - Right now I'm crying. 1754 01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:19,001 I am so happy and proud of you. 1755 01:26:19,104 --> 01:26:22,556 Will I ever, ever see you again? 1756 01:26:22,660 --> 01:26:24,524 Yes, you will. 1757 01:26:24,627 --> 01:26:29,908 My dream is to put my arms around each of you. 1758 01:26:30,012 --> 01:26:33,464 - Yeah. - So, I have a goal, too. 1759 01:26:33,947 --> 01:26:35,604 You're my beautiful babies. 1760 01:26:35,707 --> 01:26:39,401 Aw, we'll always be your babies. Forever. 1761 01:26:40,954 --> 01:26:43,232 I need a minute. 1762 01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:47,409 She was a big part of our lives for a lot of years. 1763 01:26:50,032 --> 01:26:51,999 [melancholy music playing] 1764 01:26:55,175 --> 01:26:56,521 [laughter] 1765 01:26:59,144 --> 01:27:01,354 - How are you? - So nice to meet you. 1766 01:27:01,457 --> 01:27:04,495 I hope you know you have such an impact, 1767 01:27:04,598 --> 01:27:09,085 and I hope to continue that legacy. 1768 01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:11,640 You will. And you have us supporting you 1769 01:27:11,743 --> 01:27:13,055 - every step of the way. - The sisterhood. 1770 01:27:13,158 --> 01:27:14,470 The sisterhood is real. 1771 01:27:14,574 --> 01:27:17,542 I never really thought 1772 01:27:17,646 --> 01:27:19,579 that modeling was in the cards for me. 1773 01:27:19,682 --> 01:27:22,823 I think I've always been very focused on my studies. 1774 01:27:22,927 --> 01:27:26,413 I basically got discovered by the SI swim team 1775 01:27:26,517 --> 01:27:27,621 through Instagram. 1776 01:27:27,725 --> 01:27:30,072 They ran a poll on their Instagram 1777 01:27:30,175 --> 01:27:33,351 saying, "What Insta baddie do you wanna see in the next issue?" 1778 01:27:33,455 --> 01:27:34,973 Here I am. [laughs] 1779 01:27:35,077 --> 01:27:37,113 [Fields] I searched "change." 1780 01:27:37,217 --> 01:27:39,150 They wanted new women, new models, 1781 01:27:39,254 --> 01:27:40,910 you know, more relatable to the public. 1782 01:27:41,014 --> 01:27:45,501 So they chose astronauts, they chose nurses, lawyers. 1783 01:27:45,605 --> 01:27:47,469 I applied and I got in. 1784 01:27:47,572 --> 01:27:49,781 I was like, "Wow, me?" 1785 01:27:49,885 --> 01:27:51,231 This is crazy. 1786 01:27:51,335 --> 01:27:54,199 This is a fitting photo? Are you kidding me? 1787 01:27:54,303 --> 01:27:55,408 Look at this. 1788 01:27:55,511 --> 01:27:56,788 [Nance] It's a little soft core. 1789 01:27:56,892 --> 01:27:58,859 That's Ingrid, right? What is that? 1790 01:27:58,963 --> 01:28:00,240 Why did I do that? 1791 01:28:00,344 --> 01:28:01,621 Wearing a swimsuit 1792 01:28:01,724 --> 01:28:04,002 I don't feel that it diminishes me in any way. 1793 01:28:04,106 --> 01:28:05,245 What do you guys think about that? 1794 01:28:05,349 --> 01:28:07,247 Like, yes, there is sex appeal, 1795 01:28:07,351 --> 01:28:09,007 but, you know, you can be both. 1796 01:28:09,111 --> 01:28:10,250 And I don't think that one 1797 01:28:10,354 --> 01:28:11,803 should take away from the other. 1798 01:28:11,907 --> 01:28:13,115 One man even said, 1799 01:28:13,218 --> 01:28:14,737 "Well, you're posting it. 1800 01:28:14,841 --> 01:28:16,843 You're choosing to be sexualized." 1801 01:28:16,946 --> 01:28:19,570 And I'm just like, "I am choosing to love my body 1802 01:28:19,673 --> 01:28:21,641 and to be confident in who I am." 1803 01:28:21,744 --> 01:28:24,299 Well, the Madonna whore thing is totally patriarchal. 1804 01:28:24,402 --> 01:28:27,440 - [Nance] Yeah, exactly. - So, just reject it. 1805 01:28:27,543 --> 01:28:29,614 We're working on a patriarchal society. 1806 01:28:29,718 --> 01:28:31,754 We can be sexual. You don't get to sexualize us. 1807 01:28:31,858 --> 01:28:34,757 Exactly, exactly. It's our choice. It's our agency. 1808 01:28:34,861 --> 01:28:37,519 They don't control what beauty is. We do now. 1809 01:28:37,622 --> 01:28:40,798 - And there's a lot of backlash. - And they hate it. 1810 01:28:40,901 --> 01:28:43,387 - Yes, they don't like it - [Fields] It throws them far. 1811 01:28:43,490 --> 01:28:49,772 They hate that they can't control what a beautiful person is. 1812 01:28:49,876 --> 01:28:52,188 So, we need to get this light on you. 1813 01:28:52,292 --> 01:28:55,433 [Day] It's intimidating to a certain type of person 1814 01:28:55,537 --> 01:28:57,297 to look at a woman and see her 1815 01:28:57,401 --> 01:28:59,437 embracing herself in all her glory 1816 01:28:59,541 --> 01:29:02,371 and all of her... You know, what makes her special 1817 01:29:02,475 --> 01:29:03,924 and even more of a reason 1818 01:29:04,028 --> 01:29:06,168 why we need to keep on doing what we're doing. 1819 01:29:06,271 --> 01:29:07,721 Because it needs to not be a thing. 1820 01:29:07,825 --> 01:29:08,757 [woman] If you want ad space, 1821 01:29:08,860 --> 01:29:11,035 you must prove you are a brand 1822 01:29:11,138 --> 01:29:12,381 creating change for women. 1823 01:29:12,485 --> 01:29:13,727 [Day] We actively decided 1824 01:29:13,831 --> 01:29:16,074 to not take anyone's business 1825 01:29:16,178 --> 01:29:19,284 that wasn't supporting progress for women. 1826 01:29:19,388 --> 01:29:20,838 Yeah, you're leaving money on the table, 1827 01:29:20,941 --> 01:29:23,565 but we are creating content about women. 1828 01:29:23,668 --> 01:29:25,774 It's swimsuit content, it's lifestyle content, 1829 01:29:25,877 --> 01:29:27,776 it's health and wellness content. 1830 01:29:27,879 --> 01:29:29,985 So, there was a tweet by Jordan Peterson. 1831 01:29:30,088 --> 01:29:31,504 That is Yumi Nu. 1832 01:29:31,607 --> 01:29:35,300 I tweeted out, "Sorry. Not beautiful." 1833 01:29:35,404 --> 01:29:36,543 She's not bad-looking. 1834 01:29:36,647 --> 01:29:38,718 This woman has some extra body fat. 1835 01:29:38,821 --> 01:29:41,617 People who cast this particular model for this cover, 1836 01:29:41,721 --> 01:29:43,619 they knew exactly what they were doing 1837 01:29:43,723 --> 01:29:45,794 and what kind of audience they were trying to pander to. 1838 01:29:45,897 --> 01:29:49,038 They're not on her side. They're exploiting her. 1839 01:29:49,142 --> 01:29:52,179 The Sports Illustrated cover, it's obviously exclusionary. 1840 01:29:52,283 --> 01:29:54,112 It excludes everyone. 1841 01:29:54,216 --> 01:29:57,253 You have to be young. You have to be shapely 1842 01:29:57,357 --> 01:29:58,841 in a very particular way. 1843 01:29:58,945 --> 01:30:01,223 And that would be with a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.68. 1844 01:30:01,326 --> 01:30:04,640 Because that's what's being established cross-culturally as ideal 1845 01:30:04,744 --> 01:30:08,126 from the perspective of male sexual interest, let's say. 1846 01:30:08,230 --> 01:30:11,060 But that's also associated with fertility. 1847 01:30:11,164 --> 01:30:16,238 Not everyone is a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model, period. 1848 01:30:16,341 --> 01:30:18,654 And fuck you if you don't like it. 1849 01:30:18,758 --> 01:30:22,589 I mean, I don't even know why you girls bother at this point. 1850 01:30:22,693 --> 01:30:28,526 Like, give it up, it's me. I win, you lose. 1851 01:30:30,355 --> 01:30:32,979 [Cretaz] I wrote an article for CNN 1852 01:30:33,082 --> 01:30:35,775 called "Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue 1853 01:30:35,878 --> 01:30:38,847 is a step back in time and not in a good way." 1854 01:30:38,950 --> 01:30:42,126 My work sometimes makes me a buzzkill. 1855 01:30:42,229 --> 01:30:45,716 But you criticize something because you care. 1856 01:30:45,819 --> 01:30:48,753 What can be really empowering on an individual level 1857 01:30:48,857 --> 01:30:51,791 can actually reinforce systems of oppression 1858 01:30:51,894 --> 01:30:54,725 on, like, a societal and, like, macro level. 1859 01:30:54,828 --> 01:30:57,486 I don't doubt that the people who are in the magazine 1860 01:30:57,590 --> 01:31:00,627 feel empowered, but it doesn't necessarily mean 1861 01:31:00,731 --> 01:31:03,941 that it's moving the needle on a systemic level 1862 01:31:04,044 --> 01:31:07,876 if we are just reproducing the same idea 1863 01:31:07,979 --> 01:31:09,602 with just different kinds of bodies 1864 01:31:09,705 --> 01:31:11,362 and different kinds of people. 1865 01:31:11,466 --> 01:31:12,605 [Jill] What about women just wanting 1866 01:31:12,708 --> 01:31:15,366 to feel and look sexy and share that? 1867 01:31:15,470 --> 01:31:16,574 [Cretaz] Because we live in a world 1868 01:31:16,678 --> 01:31:18,162 in which the male gaze 1869 01:31:18,265 --> 01:31:19,750 is the dominant gaze, 1870 01:31:19,853 --> 01:31:21,821 sometimes the things that we think are sexy 1871 01:31:21,924 --> 01:31:25,272 are actually impacted by what we've been told is sexy. 1872 01:31:25,376 --> 01:31:29,414 We feel sexy because this is what we have been taught 1873 01:31:29,518 --> 01:31:30,623 sexy looks like. 1874 01:31:30,726 --> 01:31:31,934 So, what would it look like 1875 01:31:32,038 --> 01:31:34,316 to take men out of the equation altogether? 1876 01:31:34,419 --> 01:31:36,836 What would the gaze look like then? 1877 01:31:36,939 --> 01:31:40,287 I consider the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition 1878 01:31:40,391 --> 01:31:41,288 to be for women. 1879 01:31:41,392 --> 01:31:42,704 And, you know, 1880 01:31:42,807 --> 01:31:44,637 if men wanna enjoy 1881 01:31:44,740 --> 01:31:46,535 and celebrate it and take a look at it, awesome. 1882 01:31:46,639 --> 01:31:50,263 It's something that Jule set in motion long ago. 1883 01:31:50,366 --> 01:31:54,336 [Cretaz] This is what we are told is attractive, 1884 01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:55,993 but the magazine itself 1885 01:31:56,096 --> 01:31:59,790 does feel like a holdover from a previous century. 1886 01:31:59,893 --> 01:32:02,482 And in a lot of ways, it's archaic. 1887 01:32:02,586 --> 01:32:04,967 We've seen females in hijabs. 1888 01:32:05,071 --> 01:32:08,592 We've seen females who identify as trans. 1889 01:32:08,695 --> 01:32:10,110 Is that good? Sure. 1890 01:32:10,214 --> 01:32:14,287 It's expanding notions of femaleness, 1891 01:32:14,390 --> 01:32:20,638 but it elevates their physicality over anything else. 1892 01:32:20,742 --> 01:32:22,709 [Deford] I don't have any problem in saying that it's sexist. 1893 01:32:22,813 --> 01:32:24,642 I don't think there's any question about that. 1894 01:32:24,746 --> 01:32:26,644 People come up to me and say, "I know why you have 1895 01:32:26,748 --> 01:32:27,749 that Swimsuit Issue. 1896 01:32:27,852 --> 01:32:30,855 It makes money." Yeah. 1897 01:32:30,959 --> 01:32:33,030 So the question is, why does it make money? 1898 01:32:33,133 --> 01:32:36,965 And what does that tell us about American society? 1899 01:32:37,068 --> 01:32:40,002 That we really would prefer to see women in swimsuits, 1900 01:32:40,106 --> 01:32:41,866 and when we see our female athletes, 1901 01:32:41,970 --> 01:32:44,144 we prefer to see them in swimsuits. 1902 01:32:44,248 --> 01:32:47,803 There's two ways that change really happens. 1903 01:32:47,907 --> 01:32:50,910 One is the idea that you blow the entire system up. 1904 01:32:51,013 --> 01:32:55,121 And the other is attempts to change the system from within. 1905 01:32:55,224 --> 01:32:57,261 [Mills] You have to do it very methodically, 1906 01:32:57,364 --> 01:33:00,022 push where you know you can make some gains 1907 01:33:00,126 --> 01:33:03,474 and, quite frankly, maybe make some compromises. 1908 01:33:03,578 --> 01:33:07,789 At the end of the day, it's important to look back on 1909 01:33:07,892 --> 01:33:13,173 what Jule did and really look at the changes she did make, 1910 01:33:13,277 --> 01:33:17,246 not the changes that maybe didn't happen during her tenure. 1911 01:33:17,695 --> 01:33:20,284 [Mulvoy] The Jule era was coming to a close. 1912 01:33:20,387 --> 01:33:21,596 And it had to come to a close. 1913 01:33:21,699 --> 01:33:23,701 I was leaving as editor at the end of '96. 1914 01:33:23,805 --> 01:33:25,082 There was a new editor coming in. 1915 01:33:25,185 --> 01:33:27,636 Jule had had a 30-year run of doing it. 1916 01:33:27,740 --> 01:33:29,569 It was time to change. 1917 01:33:29,673 --> 01:33:31,122 I don't want to get into that discussion. 1918 01:33:31,226 --> 01:33:32,537 How they treated her, 1919 01:33:32,641 --> 01:33:33,884 and who did it and everything. 1920 01:33:33,987 --> 01:33:36,162 No, I don't wanna get into that. 1921 01:33:37,473 --> 01:33:38,785 No. 1922 01:33:39,648 --> 01:33:41,823 [funky music playing] 1923 01:33:44,377 --> 01:33:46,793 [Day] I was hired by Elaine. 1924 01:33:46,897 --> 01:33:50,314 Elaine quit, like, six months after I was hired. 1925 01:33:50,417 --> 01:33:53,593 So, I worked for everybody. I worked for everyone except for Jule. 1926 01:33:53,697 --> 01:33:55,837 And I was the assistant. 1927 01:33:56,285 --> 01:33:59,012 You know, they literally asked her to retire. 1928 01:34:01,325 --> 01:34:04,052 Those are the notes she wrote to defend her job. 1929 01:34:04,155 --> 01:34:05,191 "So far, the way I'm doing it 1930 01:34:05,294 --> 01:34:08,608 seems to be working out pretty well. 1931 01:34:08,712 --> 01:34:10,852 It's my personality, my vision. 1932 01:34:11,300 --> 01:34:13,889 You can't train someone to be you." 1933 01:34:13,993 --> 01:34:15,097 So true. 1934 01:34:15,201 --> 01:34:18,722 "I have to fight in many instances." 1935 01:34:19,377 --> 01:34:22,415 I can only imagine what it felt like to get to this point, 1936 01:34:22,518 --> 01:34:24,106 to have to write this list. 1937 01:34:27,316 --> 01:34:28,076 These hit home. 1938 01:34:28,179 --> 01:34:30,078 But that's the industry, right? 1939 01:34:32,908 --> 01:34:34,496 When they're done with you, they're done with you. 1940 01:34:34,599 --> 01:34:36,429 Is it a symptom of the place 1941 01:34:36,532 --> 01:34:41,779 or is it a symptom of the people that were there at the time? 1942 01:34:43,401 --> 01:34:45,300 I think it's sort of symbolic for everything. 1943 01:34:45,403 --> 01:34:48,890 Like, why is all this stuff so hotly contested at times? 1944 01:34:48,993 --> 01:34:51,168 It's because you fear the power that women possess 1945 01:34:51,271 --> 01:34:54,378 when they feel the confidence to do what they wanna do. 1946 01:34:58,623 --> 01:35:03,490 All these things are in place to kind of stop us. 1947 01:35:03,594 --> 01:35:06,010 Why? Because you're a certain age? 1948 01:35:06,114 --> 01:35:09,255 Then clearly your expiration date is up. 1949 01:35:19,437 --> 01:35:21,439 [melancholy music playing] 1950 01:35:25,823 --> 01:35:29,482 [MacCambridge] In the mid-90s, SI does reader studies on the swimsuit issues. 1951 01:35:29,585 --> 01:35:31,967 The majority of readers say what they would like is 1952 01:35:32,071 --> 01:35:36,489 more familiar swimsuit models in more provocative poses. 1953 01:35:36,592 --> 01:35:38,456 They don't care about the beautiful sunsets. 1954 01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:41,563 They just wanna see models in less clothes. 1955 01:35:41,666 --> 01:35:43,841 [Mulvoy] You know your worth. We know your worth. 1956 01:35:43,945 --> 01:35:45,947 We think we've more than properly 1957 01:35:46,050 --> 01:35:48,708 compensated you for your worth. 1958 01:35:48,812 --> 01:35:51,090 [Day] They don't take into consideration 1959 01:35:51,193 --> 01:35:55,750 that institutional knowledge and innate ability. 1960 01:35:55,853 --> 01:35:57,717 And I would assume that the same thing 1961 01:35:57,821 --> 01:35:59,374 will happen to me and the next person, 1962 01:35:59,477 --> 01:36:01,410 and the next person, right? 1963 01:36:01,514 --> 01:36:04,586 She brought it to a place that was celebrated. 1964 01:36:04,689 --> 01:36:06,933 How did I have time for all this? 1965 01:36:07,037 --> 01:36:09,591 [Day laughs] Good question. 1966 01:36:09,694 --> 01:36:13,422 You did a lot of stuff, lady. [laughs] 1967 01:36:13,526 --> 01:36:17,116 These are all... This is just one little shoot of yours. 1968 01:36:18,220 --> 01:36:22,121 Jule, you're very special to me, 1969 01:36:22,224 --> 01:36:23,847 to the girls. 1970 01:36:25,469 --> 01:36:26,470 I mean... 1971 01:36:29,266 --> 01:36:33,132 We did things that, you know, will never be done again. 1972 01:36:33,615 --> 01:36:36,445 [Elle] Dearest Jule, I'm back in my Marrakesh 1973 01:36:36,549 --> 01:36:40,311 for vacation with my man. I'm in heaven. 1974 01:36:40,415 --> 01:36:45,247 My dearest Jule, just one more month until the big day. 1975 01:36:45,351 --> 01:36:50,459 Dearest Jule, I miss you terribly and so much. 1976 01:36:50,563 --> 01:36:52,151 Need to talk to you. 1977 01:36:52,254 --> 01:36:56,811 I feel so isolated. I miss you and I love you. 1978 01:36:56,914 --> 01:36:58,364 Love, Elle. 1979 01:37:00,435 --> 01:37:02,161 [laughing] Hi. 1980 01:37:02,264 --> 01:37:03,714 Ooh! 1981 01:37:03,818 --> 01:37:05,543 My goodness. 1982 01:37:05,647 --> 01:37:08,339 - You're one of my babies. - I am. 1983 01:37:09,271 --> 01:37:10,825 Look at you. 1984 01:37:10,928 --> 01:37:12,654 - I'm just taking you all in. - Are you happy? 1985 01:37:12,757 --> 01:37:14,518 - Very. - Life is good to you. 1986 01:37:14,621 --> 01:37:15,899 Life is good to me. 1987 01:37:18,246 --> 01:37:22,008 [Jule] I like it, too, that you don't put a lot of makeup on 1988 01:37:22,112 --> 01:37:25,184 because I think that makes you look younger. 1989 01:37:25,287 --> 01:37:29,050 You know you can study your face when you're alone. 1990 01:37:29,153 --> 01:37:29,947 Yes. 1991 01:37:30,051 --> 01:37:31,846 And be comfortable 1992 01:37:31,949 --> 01:37:35,332 - using different faces. - Yeah. True. 1993 01:37:35,435 --> 01:37:38,749 - And you learned that. - You taught me that. 1994 01:37:38,853 --> 01:37:42,373 - You... No one taught you. - You did. 1995 01:37:42,477 --> 01:37:43,996 That was the beginning of my understanding 1996 01:37:44,099 --> 01:37:47,792 that beauty comes from the inside. 1997 01:37:48,207 --> 01:37:51,003 When you look at this face, what do you see? 1998 01:37:53,074 --> 01:37:54,799 Very alive picture. 1999 01:37:54,903 --> 01:37:58,734 I see my fear. 2000 01:37:58,838 --> 01:38:02,290 I see my wanting to do a really good job 2001 01:38:02,393 --> 01:38:04,154 and not quite sure of myself. 2002 01:38:04,257 --> 01:38:08,192 If I had learned to honor my body when I was this age... 2003 01:38:08,296 --> 01:38:11,713 Because I look back, and I go, "Wow. 2004 01:38:11,816 --> 01:38:13,991 This girl was phenomenal." 2005 01:38:14,095 --> 01:38:17,753 And at the time, I never felt that. 2006 01:38:17,857 --> 01:38:22,758 My shoulders are too broad, and my legs are too long, 2007 01:38:22,862 --> 01:38:26,728 and my breasts are too big, and my head is too small. 2008 01:38:26,831 --> 01:38:31,181 Cascades of hair. I love it. 2009 01:38:32,803 --> 01:38:34,909 You're such an amazing woman. 2010 01:38:37,118 --> 01:38:38,326 I wish you good things. 2011 01:38:38,429 --> 01:38:40,121 Do you have a good man in your life? 2012 01:38:40,224 --> 01:38:42,778 Ha-ha! She's always interested in my personal life. 2013 01:38:42,882 --> 01:38:44,953 She's always been. 2014 01:38:45,057 --> 01:38:47,887 I do that with everyone. It makes me happy. 2015 01:38:47,991 --> 01:38:49,647 - Yes. - If I don't like them, 2016 01:38:49,751 --> 01:38:51,926 - I don't bother asking. - I know. 2017 01:38:52,029 --> 01:38:53,824 - I don't need to have a man... - That's right. 2018 01:38:53,928 --> 01:38:56,171 - ...to be happy. - That's... 2019 01:38:56,275 --> 01:38:58,656 But then you would see something. 2020 01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:00,520 Yeah. And that is my truth. 2021 01:39:00,624 --> 01:39:02,108 And you will get happiness 2022 01:39:02,212 --> 01:39:04,214 because you already have it in you. 2023 01:39:04,317 --> 01:39:05,801 Exactly. 2024 01:39:06,216 --> 01:39:07,769 - It's true. - Do you like me preaching? 2025 01:39:07,872 --> 01:39:10,358 I love you preaching. 2026 01:39:10,461 --> 01:39:12,360 You're not preaching, lady. You're teaching. 2027 01:39:12,463 --> 01:39:14,845 I've been there and back a lot. 2028 01:39:14,949 --> 01:39:19,470 - It's good I'm not jealous. - What would you be jealous of? 2029 01:39:19,574 --> 01:39:20,920 - You. - No! 2030 01:39:21,024 --> 01:39:22,784 You're amazing. 2031 01:39:22,887 --> 01:39:24,544 - Seriously. - You taught me. 2032 01:39:24,648 --> 01:39:28,169 - I see a great future ahead for you. - Thank you. 2033 01:39:28,272 --> 01:39:31,068 - You said that to me in 19-- - I do. I'm not joking. 2034 01:39:31,172 --> 01:39:33,001 You told me that in 1982. 2035 01:39:33,105 --> 01:39:34,727 [Elle] Wow! 2036 01:39:34,830 --> 01:39:37,695 Jule had a Polaroid camera. She took Polaroids of everything. 2037 01:39:37,799 --> 01:39:40,112 She would use them to get a feeling 2038 01:39:40,215 --> 01:39:41,630 for what the suit was gonna be. 2039 01:39:41,734 --> 01:39:44,944 So, we would kind of pose it out with her. 2040 01:39:45,048 --> 01:39:47,119 Maybe I can do something with them. 2041 01:39:47,222 --> 01:39:49,397 Yes, you should do something with them. 2042 01:39:51,951 --> 01:39:55,472 - One, deux... - Trois. 2043 01:39:55,575 --> 01:39:57,405 [camera whirring] 2044 01:40:03,480 --> 01:40:06,207 I wrote to you all these postcards. 2045 01:40:06,310 --> 01:40:08,657 [mellow music playing] 2046 01:40:12,558 --> 01:40:14,042 It's amazing. 2047 01:40:15,664 --> 01:40:17,666 I'd forgotten about this. 2048 01:40:24,397 --> 01:40:26,675 [Graham] I found Wiz's old camera. 2049 01:40:26,779 --> 01:40:29,023 I'm glad you're using it. 2050 01:40:32,992 --> 01:40:35,926 We have a very curious, loving family. 2051 01:40:36,030 --> 01:40:37,031 Yes. 2052 01:40:38,618 --> 01:40:40,896 [both laugh] 2053 01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,314 - What is this? - This is a real tattoo. 2054 01:40:44,417 --> 01:40:46,178 - It's your drawing. - It's not gonna wash off? 2055 01:40:46,281 --> 01:40:48,180 No. Wiz helped you with this. 2056 01:40:48,283 --> 01:40:50,734 You and him drew these for the Knicks. 2057 01:40:50,837 --> 01:40:53,254 You told me to put it on my outside of my arm. 2058 01:40:53,357 --> 01:40:55,221 I was gonna do it on the inside, and at Christmas, 2059 01:40:55,325 --> 01:40:56,740 you told me to do it on the outside. 2060 01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:06,715 Oh, my God. I look like I died and came back. 2061 01:41:06,819 --> 01:41:08,165 [Graham laughs] 2062 01:41:08,614 --> 01:41:11,720 - [Jill] You look great. - I have to have a copy of that. 2063 01:41:11,824 --> 01:41:16,380 - [Jill] Okay. - That's you and your brother. 2064 01:41:17,968 --> 01:41:19,901 That's my mother. 2065 01:41:20,004 --> 01:41:21,523 - Is that your mother? - Yeah. 2066 01:41:22,559 --> 01:41:24,319 - No. - Yeah. 2067 01:41:28,185 --> 01:41:30,705 How could I get that so mixed up? 2068 01:41:30,808 --> 01:41:35,537 I'm his mama. I'm Jill. I'm Jill, the mother. 2069 01:41:37,263 --> 01:41:40,163 - No. - I'm Jill. Remember? 2070 01:41:40,266 --> 01:41:42,475 I'm Jill. That's Graham. 2071 01:41:43,718 --> 01:41:47,515 - Don't do all this to me. - Okay. All right. 2072 01:41:49,862 --> 01:41:51,864 Let's talk about something else. 2073 01:41:58,008 --> 01:42:00,597 How can I think of anything else? 2074 01:42:04,256 --> 01:42:05,636 [Jill] It's okay, Mumu. 2075 01:42:06,982 --> 01:42:09,364 Don't worry. It's okay. 2076 01:42:09,468 --> 01:42:11,401 - Okay. - Don't feel bad. 2077 01:42:11,504 --> 01:42:13,851 How long have we known each other? 2078 01:42:15,957 --> 01:42:17,441 Let me see. 2079 01:42:22,343 --> 01:42:25,553 - Thirty-six years. - Oh, my God. 2080 01:42:31,317 --> 01:42:34,769 That would make you Bruce as your father? 2081 01:42:35,494 --> 01:42:40,154 No, he's my, um, ex-husband. 2082 01:42:41,327 --> 01:42:43,778 Bruce and I were married. 2083 01:42:44,365 --> 01:42:47,368 - You remember? - We'll talk about that another time. 2084 01:42:47,471 --> 01:42:49,163 - Yeah. - It's just too much 2085 01:42:49,266 --> 01:42:52,890 - that's come down that I've... - Yeah. 2086 01:42:53,305 --> 01:42:57,516 I'm too organized, and I don't have it in... 2087 01:42:57,619 --> 01:42:59,380 - Yeah. - In its own place. 2088 01:42:59,483 --> 01:43:02,176 Okay. Okay. That's okay. 2089 01:43:12,669 --> 01:43:16,431 - Yay! - Thank you, everybody. 2090 01:43:16,535 --> 01:43:18,744 [tender music playing] 2091 01:43:23,783 --> 01:43:25,337 Make a wish. 2092 01:43:26,579 --> 01:43:29,582 [Bruce] You look ridiculous. [laughs] 2093 01:43:30,721 --> 01:43:33,690 Okay. The fire is going down on these candles. 2094 01:43:33,793 --> 01:43:35,657 This is my daughter. 2095 01:43:38,039 --> 01:43:40,490 Just a minute. Give me... [laughs] 2096 01:43:40,593 --> 01:43:45,219 There's so many wishes. I can only do one. 2097 01:43:47,773 --> 01:43:49,775 [mumbling] 2098 01:43:55,159 --> 01:43:56,885 [Jill] What's your toast? 2099 01:43:56,989 --> 01:43:58,024 Here's to you. 2100 01:43:58,128 --> 01:43:59,578 Here's to me. 2101 01:43:59,681 --> 01:44:01,890 [Jill] I hope we never disagree. 2102 01:44:03,996 --> 01:44:05,584 And if we do, 2103 01:44:06,757 --> 01:44:08,276 to hell with you. 2104 01:44:08,380 --> 01:44:09,346 Here's to me. 2105 01:44:09,450 --> 01:44:11,624 [Jill laughing] 2106 01:44:14,455 --> 01:44:16,733 [Jule] It's my favorite toast. 2107 01:44:16,836 --> 01:44:20,357 Because it brings a smile to your face. 2108 01:44:20,461 --> 01:44:24,085 You guys made this a very special day. 2109 01:44:24,188 --> 01:44:26,329 Ronnie says thank you. 2110 01:44:27,364 --> 01:44:29,504 And my mother and father say thank you 2111 01:44:29,608 --> 01:44:31,023 because they know I'm happy. 2112 01:44:31,126 --> 01:44:33,163 [Jill] Aw. 2113 01:44:33,267 --> 01:44:36,753 Always loved it coming down in the morning 2114 01:44:36,856 --> 01:44:42,103 and finding all the glasses and stuff on the table from-- 2115 01:44:42,206 --> 01:44:44,588 [stammers] Your last drinks. 2116 01:44:44,692 --> 01:44:47,177 [sentimental music playing] 2117 01:44:47,591 --> 01:44:49,766 So, I think we'll do the same thing. 2118 01:44:49,869 --> 01:44:50,939 [chuckles] 2119 01:44:56,462 --> 01:44:58,637 [sentimental music continues] 2120 01:44:58,740 --> 01:45:00,708 [inaudible] 2121 01:45:06,403 --> 01:45:08,578 [sentimental music continues] 2122 01:45:21,418 --> 01:45:23,627 [Jill] Here's to you and here's to me. 2123 01:45:23,731 --> 01:45:28,425 I hope we never disagree. But if we do, to hell with you. 2124 01:45:28,529 --> 01:45:31,428 Here's to me. But I do love you. 2125 01:45:37,227 --> 01:45:39,436 [sentimental music continues] 2126 01:46:07,533 --> 01:46:09,742 - [lively music playing] - [singers vocalizing] 2127 01:46:33,110 --> 01:46:35,112 [funky music playing] 2128 01:46:58,446 --> 01:47:00,655 [singers vocalizing] 2129 01:47:02,277 --> 01:47:03,796 ♪ Oh, yeah 2130 01:47:07,144 --> 01:47:09,146 [singers vocalizing] 2131 01:47:10,907 --> 01:47:12,460 ♪ Oh, yeah 2132 01:47:15,739 --> 01:47:17,189 [mellow music playing] 2133 01:47:17,292 --> 01:47:19,502 [laughter] 2134 01:47:19,605 --> 01:47:20,917 You've taught me so many things, 2135 01:47:21,020 --> 01:47:22,125 - so many important-- - I got more. 2136 01:47:22,228 --> 01:47:23,402 You got more? Well, bring it on. 2137 01:47:23,506 --> 01:47:26,336 I need to hear. What you got for me? 2138 01:47:26,440 --> 01:47:27,648 [both laugh] 2139 01:47:27,751 --> 01:47:29,339 I save some for Christmas. 2140 01:47:29,443 --> 01:47:32,618 - Okay. For Christmas I get more Jule lessons. - And Easter. 2141 01:47:32,722 --> 01:47:35,345 Yeah, you are... You are my wonderful mentor... 2142 01:47:35,449 --> 01:47:37,243 - Yes. At birthdays. - ...teacher, family. 2143 01:47:37,347 --> 01:47:39,004 You are awesome. 2144 01:47:39,107 --> 01:47:42,525 ♪ Oh, yeah