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What do I love about pickleball?
It's a sense of community that pickleball
is breeding throughout the country.
It's the one sport that has transcended all boundaries.
Age, race, religion, sex, abled, disabled.
It doesn't matter if you're 7 years old or 97 years old.
You can go out and play and have a good time.
Pickleball is considered
the fastest-growing sport in the US,
with some reports claiming more than 36 million Americans
picked up a paddle just last year.
It's a magic moment in a sport
that is just becoming popular
in a way that we've not seen in my lifetime.
Bingo used to be the most attended thing at Cypress Cove,
and now it's pickleball.
There is a social part of it
that really does save many people's lives.
I've been at the bottom of the bottom,
but when I'm on the court,
all that matters is hitting this ball over this net.
Pickleball brought us together.
It's a pickleball love story.
It is.
It has made my life full.
It has made my life with a purpose.
The pickleball community
is so there for each other.
I've seen people's lives saved on the pickleball court,
and, unfortunately,
I've seen somebody die on the pickleball court.
But he died, he died doing what he loved.
The money being thrown around in pickleball
right now is insane.
Some of it wisely,
some of it may be not so wisely.
With its surging popularity,
conflict emerged between
the professional pickleball leagues MLP,
the team format backed by A-list investors,
and the PPA, considered by many the sport's true tour,
establishes player rankings
and determines the best player in the world.
Both leagues are competing for TV deals,
sponsors, and top talent.
I think there's some competition
between the leagues.
A lot of big money behind it,
a lot of billionaires who are funding pickleball.
Occasionally I have dreams about pickleball,
but as I've gotten more involved
in the organization part of pickleball
as opposed to the playing part,
those dreams sometimes turn into nightmares.
One or two of these leagues
are gonna go up in smoke.
Now, I don't know which one's gonna survive.
Probably the one who's got the most billionaires behind it.
To the big money coming into pickleball,
do what you wanna do, but don't ruin it.
Howdy.
My name is Mike Sliwa.
My friends call me Sleeves,
and I live in a yurt in Cliff, New Mexico.
And this is where I record
the Senior Pickleball Report Channel.
And I'm a pickleball fan.
A big pickleball fan.
So unless you live further off grid than I do,
you may not know what pickleball is.
It was invented by three guys
in Bainbridge Island, Washington, in the 1960s.
Lots of folks think the sport was named after
the family's founder dog, Pickles.
Truth is, it comes from the crew term "pickle boat,"
the boat made up of a hodgepodge of rowers
that really don't fit together as a team.
Makes sense if you recall,
pickleball was first played with equipment
from other popular sports of the day.
Anyways, COVID hits, pickleball explodes.
There's a paddle in everybody's hand,
and, of course, money starts to roll into the sport.
And that could be for the better or for the worse.
But what we get out of it
is a thing called professional pickleball.
Yeah, that's a thing.
Now we have competing leagues, we have competing halls of fame,
and now we have two rich guys who may or may not want to
control the entire pickleball universe.
And caught in the crossfire are a bunch of folks
just trying to make an honest living
as professional pickleball players.
So, buckle up. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.
But first, we have to go back to 2021
where this kinda got going.
The Major League Pickleball inaugural tournament
in a little dusty town called Dripping Springs, Texas.
I'm Ryan Sherry here at Dreamland.
I play tennis at the University of Florida.
Um, you know, I was there, I was number two in the nation.
Sixteen in the world in tennis.
Um, love pickleball.
Uh, a couple of years ago, I introduced to it
and, uh, you know, being 38 years old,
it's pretty cool to have an opportunity
to play pro, um, sport.
And I love it.
Marriages used to be getting broken
from guys going to bars and nightclubs.
Now it's staying too long at the pickleball, you know, complex.
It's, uh, it's just, it's just fun.
MLP is different from BPA or other tournaments
most of us play in every week.
It's an event.
It's a party event, which I love.
Just like in the NBA or NFL,
you got owners drafting their players.
Here it's two guys, two girls per team, four games a match.
If no one emerges a clear winner,
it's settled by a single showdown
where men and women can go head-to-head
in a way I've never seen in sports.
It's called a dreambreaker.
Uh, A, B, C, D, cut to the sound,
pickleball is awesome.
Welcome to Dreamland.
I am Steve Kuhn.
I'm the founder of Major League Pickleball and Dreamland.
I found Dreamland because I wanted to celebrate
what I think is the most powerful brand in human history,
the American dream.
At Dreamland, we celebrate that by doing mini golf,
which is a great American sport.
Pickleball, a great sport invented in America.
And all these sports are meant
as ways to bring people together.
We have plenty of things in this country right now
which are dividing us.
No one's talking about politics
on the pickleball court.
Everybody is having fun.
Some people describe America
as a place where you can have a second chance.
If things are not going well in your country,
you can come to America
and maybe find your way to the American dream.
Uh, some people have said
that pickleball is the same in sports.
You're a little bit older, but you can come to pickleball and probably compete.
Whether you compete at the highest level or not?
Maybe, but you certainly can have a great time,
and it's something you can probably play
for the rest of your life.
Because the name of pickleball is so strange,
people haven't taken it as seriously,
and I think it makes it less of a sport.
As an investor, as a hedge fund manager,
I look for things that are undervalued or mispriced.
Pickleball is undervalued. It's mispriced.
So I never answer the question,
"Why is the sport named pickleball?"
I always say that I'm thankful that it is.
Morgan, what's your biggest takeaway
as we've watched two and a half days of Major League pickleball?
Yeah, I mean, I think it has to be just...
People ask me,
why do I love the pickleball pros so much?
Obviously because I love the sport.
You're gonna love the players who are best at it.
It's a tough life to be a pickleball pro.
These pros are playing
sometimes 20 to 30 tournaments a year.
They're traveling every other week,
sometimes even more than that.
You're paying for the entry fees
and the tournaments and the hotels and the airfare.
It does get expensive.
Ohh!
Even though I'm making money through pickleball,
I still work.
A lot of people who play
professional pickleball,
they're probably professional at something else.
They might have a day job.
They might be a lawyer. They might be a teacher.
AJ Koller!
I remember AJ Koller was living out of his car.
I mean, not really out of his car, but not far from it,
while he was chasing the pickleball dream.
I mean, I think it's getting better and better,
and that's kind of why I'm in it,
'cause it really, it's changing a lot of people's lives.
How nervous are you right now?
I'm not nervous. Pressure is a privilege.
It's over. Game over.
- He's done. - Ohh!
Even for players in the top ten,
it's hard to make a living.
We have housing at Dreamland.
They can live there and train there.
It's important for them because they're on the road
so much these days.
They're playing so many tournaments
that I'm trying to make their lives
a little bit more financially successful
so that they can continue to help us grow the sport.
And you got the top players in the world here pretty much.
You know, not myself.
You know, I didn't get picked in this draft.
I'm more of a singles player.
A lot of these, uh,
a lot of these things are more focused
on doubles and mixed doubles.
But $100,000 prize, um,
the biggest prize in pickleball.
You know, really excited to finally, you know,
have somebody, you know, put the money out there to
get the top players here, and it's pretty, pretty amazing.
There's so many good things that are taking place with the sport.
It could be so much bigger.
And I just hope that I'm not
coming into the sport too early
where I'd miss out on some of the big money coming in.
Tyson's the guy you wanna root for every single week.
He's got the tats, and, you know, the arm sleeve.
He's got all the swag.
This is called flip flops.
These are called ups.
This is called being a stud.
So I don't know if I told you this morning,
but I was taking a shower with Banks.
She was sitting on the ground.
Next thing I know, there was something that came out of her.
And I believe she may have taken a shit in the shower.
I was in there with her.
Just to get my morning started.
A little early morning deuce in Dad's shower.
When I came to pickleball, it was about five years ago
and I only had one child, so it was very different.
I didn't have three other kiddos to worry about.
You know, we were kinda crossing our fingers,
I think, for a little bit and just saying, you know,
gosh, we really hope, hope this all works out and--
We're investing so much time, so much effort,
so much energy and trying to travel
and make this thing work, but financially,
you know, it didn't make sense for a couple years
and now it's starting to, so it's pretty cool.
Tyson's known to be crowd friendly,
but Ben is often described as the GOAT.
He had 170 straight wins in singles.
That's a crazy record.
- And there it is! - And that's gonna do it.
Ben Johns puts it away!
He's by far the best in the game.
Ben Johns, the best.
Ben in the last three, four years
has done some things that's pretty unprecedented.
Not just in this sport, in any sport,
to be at the top and to continue to win and work hard
and doesn't wanna lose.
I mean, that's impressive.
Yeah, you know, it just comes along with what I got.
So, I'm, uh, real happy about it.
I have people bringing me coffee, so it's a good day.
Underway men's doubles.
McGuffin staring in.
Got a touch of the ball here.
Ben Johns and Tyson McGuffin
are very different players.
They have very different style of their game.
Tyson, he puts in a lot of effort into every point.
He's always been kinda competing
and fighting for his spot.
There it is.
Oh.
He doesn't need to be miked up for the growling.
Ben, on the other hand, is super calm and collected.
You're rarely gonna see Ben react to a point.
Ben Johns lurking in the middle,
waiting for the right opportunity.
His game is very efficient.
Wow. And an 8-3 lead here for Johns and Nunnery.
And then you have the skill set,
the variety of shots that Ben has.
And Johns on fire in this match.
That ball stays in.
Johns and Nunnery will hand the Discovery Warriors
their first loss of this event.
Did not turn out in our favor.
Live to fight another day though. Back here tomorrow.
Dear Lord, be with the girls today.
Help them to have fun and keep them safe. Amen.
- Amen. - Amen.
Who are you cheering for?
Ohh! Let's go!
We've been playing pickleball for about four years now.
I first heard about pickleball was my grandfather.
He used to go and play all the time,
but we didn't really think much of it until we tried it.
In my previous life, I was an attorney,
but it got to the point where we started traveling so much with pickleball,
I decided that I was going to go inactive as an attorney
and travel the country playing pickleball with my daughter.
- Yeah!
Match goes to Leigh Waters
and Anna Leigh Waters.
Another women's doubles championship.
It's just so cool to be able
to travel with my family around the country,
getting to do something that we love.
It makes you like, think about, like, how lucky you are.
It's more nerve-racking watching her play
than me playing myself.
You gotta remember, she's 14 years old
and she's playing against mid 20-year-old,
30-year-old pros.
So it's, um, there's some nerves there,
but she can handle it.
Out of Delray Beach, Florida,
- Anna Leigh Waters!
Yeah, this is huge tonight.
It's the first ever Major League Pickleball championship.
So when you think of legacies,
you wanna win the first in something.
So, young Anna Leigh Waters wants it,
and the GOAT, Ben Johns, on the other side
absolutely wants to add to his legacy
by winning the first cup.
By many ranking systems,
Anna Leigh Waters is the number one
female player in the world.
Today in Major League Pickleball,
she plays up against Ben Johns,
the number one male player in the world.
Ben Johns went after Anna Leigh Waters.
She responded in a big way.
Watching them on the court
at the same time is amazing.
Oh-oh. There's another big shot by Anna Leigh Waters.
Kid is an absolute rock star.
You're on the side right here.
Your feet have to be on almost on this side of the line.
Okay? Because if they are...
- If you can shift... - Then I got it.
You got it.
What a hand battle. How about that?
When I go into this event, I said there was
three things that were important to me.
Did the players have a good time?
Did the fans have a good time?
And did the people watching it on the air,
do they love it?
- It's in. He's got a... - Tweener.
Ohh!
I think a lot of people live in a zero-sum world
where they think that someone else's success is bad for them.
Team BLQK, they take care of business.
This guy just too much.
I try to fight zero-sum thinking in my own life,
and I would encourage them to refresh.
Find joy in any place you can.
- Yes! Come on! - Yeah! Come on!
Rob Nunnery.
Biggest moment in his pickleball life.
When other people are seeing their dreams happen,
I think it's more likely that your dreams
are likely to come true as well.
There it is. Team BLQK.
Rob Nunnery, Irina Tereschenko,
Ben Johns, and Andrea Koop,
the first-ever Major League Pickleball champions.
I believe that the future
for Major League Pickleball is very bright.
My name is Connor Pardoe,
founder and creator
and current CEO of the PPA Tour.
The PPA is the professional tour of pickleball.
So what the PGA may be to golf
or what the ATP may be to tennis,
the PPA is to pickleball.
So we're the pro tour where the best players
in the world come and play over a 52-week period.
The most chaotic person in pickleball.
That causes me the most chaos. Jeez.
Um,
you know, I would say the most chaotic person
in pickleball up to this point has probably been the PPA Tour.
PPA said, uh, "The pros don't play when they wanna play.
They play when we tell them to play."
- You hear that? - That's the quote.
Whoo!
- Whoo! Yeah... - Dang.
I don't know if anyone that's ruffled as many feathers,
has pushed the envelope harder than our group.
Connor Pardoe is a trailblazer
in the sense that he's just, like, I'm gonna do this tour
and I don't care what I'm spending.
And I think he comes from a pretty wealthy family,
so I think there's deep pockets there to spend.
We're not just throwing money at something.
We wanna be a profitable business.
And that's what you have in the PPA tour.
Who knows where tomorrow's gonna be?
Like, let's just make sure that we're pushing the envelope
each and every day.
We are talking professional pickleball
and the momentum it is gaining
and the money being spent in this game.
You have Connor Pardoe of the PPA,
you have Steve Kuhn of MLP
spending large amounts of money
getting these leagues off the ground, and they do.
But it catches the attention
of Carolina Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon.
Tom Dundon comes from the subprime auto loan background,
made a lot of money there.
Dundon Capital Partners, DCP, led by Tom Dundon,
purchased the PPA, pickleballtournaments.com
and Pickleball Central. Boom.
He's the owner of the NHL Carolina Hurricanes.
He was a huge investor in Topgolf.
Mr. Pardoe will stay on, um,
and help run the league for the next couple years.
So who is Tom Dundon?
Tom's kind of a mysterious character to me, honestly.
I've never officially met Tom Dundon.
I mean, I've met him, shook his hand.
Um, I don't know if he remembers me.
I'd like to think he does.
I've never met the guy in my life,
so I couldn't tell you anything about him.
Tom Dundon really brought
a unique perspective on the sport
and how to make it extremely marketable and profitable.
He really brought a business element to pickleball.
He really took us ten years ahead.
I know Tom Dundon has been involved
in Topgolf, Carvana,
and he owns the Carolina Hurricanes.
He also was part of, I believe,
of a football league that did not make it.
I heard there was some friction
in the dissolving of that league,
some contracts that weren't paid.
- Let's go, Tom! - I like Tom a lot.
I think he's doing good things for the sport.
I thought he was not the guy
that I think everybody kind of painted him out to be,
which was like this evil empire type dude.
He's clearly just elevated it on the pro level.
He has a rolodex that I've never quite seen anything like.
I don't think there's anyone in the world
that he's not at least two phone calls away from.
Maybe not one phone call,
but if you wanna get a hold of Justin Bieber,
he's probably two phone calls away.
When you have somebody as successful as Tom Dundon,
people stop and they listen.
So this is where it gets tricky.
Time comes into the sport,
and he wants his top players
to sign exclusive three-year contracts.
What does that mean?
Well, it means they have to play the PPA.
Also means they can't play Steve's MLP.
Now, three years in pickleball is like how we count dog years.
Things change so quickly in this sport.
You're out there grinding.
We don't know which tour is gonna survive.
So at the end of the day, Steve Kuhn's big dream
for Major League Pickleball is really in danger.
According to No Man's Land blog,
uh, the PPA has secured and signed 22 of the top players
to exclusively play for the PPA.
So when the contracts came in to these players,
it was one of the most emotionally taxing times
'cause they were given very short timelines
to actually sign anything,
uh, let alone review what was happening.
And they were forced to make decisions
that were gonna impact the next few years of their life.
I would say the PPA is
very well known for, "Here's a contract, sign.
If you don't sign it, you know, you, you can't play."
I think that created a lot of panic and struggle
for, like, a lot of my friends.
You know, some of them had to
somehow back out and hire lawyers.
I don't know if that was quite fair to do to, you know,
people in their 20s who have no real clue what they're doing.
And you're, you know,
a 50-something-year-old billionaire
who really has all the resources.
So players were really kind of caught in a bind.
You know, if they signed these exclusive contracts,
well, that means no more MLP.
So ultimately these players,
some of them who lived at Steve's complex, Dreamland,
left to go sign with Connor and Tom.
The landscape of pickleball, it was confusing.
The PPA was definitely ahead.
We had the best players under contract.
We had the most revenues.
We had the TV deals.
But Major League Pickleball was an amazing idea
and an amazing format
and something that is so electric.
Whoo!
So I put Tom Dundon
and Steve Kuhn together in a room
and tried to work something out, and it didn't really work.
I think two egos got in the way.
You know, Steve, Steve wanted
to have the best players in the world
participate in, in his tournament.
Uh, Tom said, "What's in it for me?
"I've got these guys under contract with PPA.
Why should I change the contract for your benefit?"
That new Sports Illustrated article.
It's got a lot of heat. But we're all trying to find our path.
And there's competing tours and competing hall of fames
and competing certifications and competing camps.
I mean, honestly, it goes on and on and on.
We, we need to have just one outlet.
It was like, screw you, man, I'm gonna win this.
And Steve said something that, you know,
"Well, you know, I'll buy you out."
And Tom said, "No, no, no, no, I buy you out."
It was kind of over before it even started.
Like, nobody went in
actually wanting to make anything happen.
It was, it felt like, more like peacocking.
You're killing me. You are killing me.
It's probably best that we-- that we move on from that one.
Welcome to Indian Wells, California,
site of the Margaritaville USA Pickleball National Championships.
This is the Mecca of pickleball.
US Championships, what we call Nationals,
is the longest standing pro tournament in pickleball.
Um, so I think it's been going on since 2008, 2009,
like, way before anybody was really playing the sport.
So it kinda has that old feel to it,
almost like Wimbledon for tennis or something like that.
And with today, like, having two pro tours,
it kinda brings all the players together.
But I would say pickleball is organized chaos right now.
You've got this amazing tide of chaos right here
and a couple people trying to corral it.
I'd say, embrace the chaos. Let, let it just rain.
I don't think some people realize
that I am still in school, and, you know,
I'm still trying to be a kid at the same time
as I am a professional pickleball player.
So it can be really, really challenging.
Somebody called me a fraud,
and I said, "You're terrible for pickleball
and you're ugly and get out of here."
Uh, I actually li... I actually lost that match.
A couple of years ago, nobody knew who I was at all.
I was not verified on Instagram. I was a nobody.
And, uh, you know,
now I got that cool little blue check mark,
which definitely helps.
I'm starting to be spotted at airports.
I'm getting spotted at restaurants.
Obviously, like, when I'm at tournaments
I get, like, bombarded.
I think his, his look helps now.
Yeah, the distinctive features of the tats
and the mullet and the mustache.
And I may have got a new pair of veneers as well,
which, which definitely helps.
Over the last two or three years,
I think I've been able to, like,
really build a character and own it.
I think there's a lot of brands out there that truly love that,
and like the organic message that I'm trying to send.
One of the more, like, attractive media pieces
that have been put out was this Barstool article
naming me the most electrifying guy in sports.
And, honestly, I can't tell you how many brands
came knocking on the door once that thing came out.
Essentially, the article just made me sound like a legend,
and that's my true image.
I'm trying to be louder than life.
When we were growing up,
Tyson looked like a normal,
clean cut, All-American guy.
No tats, no, no new teeth, no mullet.
No any of that.
So me and all my friends
and my little sister had the biggest crush on him.
I'm a huge believer in, like,
if you look good, you play good
and it's just nice to have a good smile.
You know, it is.
Whoa! Come on!
First match of the day, easy work as always, you know.
You are listening to Radio Margaritaville.
We are here joined by Ryan Sherry.
Ryan, you've been so instrumental
in kind of building up this tournament,
in this sport really over the past couple years.
Tell me about that, and sort of the growth that you've seen.
People kinda know what it is now.
I used to, you know, get an elevator
and meet some girl, "What are you doing?"
Uh, I couldn't even... I didn't wanna say pickleball.
I didn't wanna explain.
Um, but now I'm kinda, you know,
I don't mind saying it, you know? - Sure.
This is a hobby for me.
I'm not getting sponsorships 'cause I don't want 'em.
You know, I got responsibility.
My business Legacy Pro Sports helps
former NFL football players, post-career.
You know, the disability,
through the NFL Players Association
is there for them.
They have to go apply.
But only about 10% of the guys actually get it.
And we're probably about 50%.
I mean, you're dealing with guys with, you know,
whether it's child support issues,
whether it's, you know,
coming from, you know, no family, friends that,
you know, took their money and invested it in something
that, you know, they didn't even know what was going on.
That's where we come in.
The Sher Bear, Ryan Sherry.
He is the John Daly of pickleball.
He's out partying till all hours of the night.
And you look at him and you would say,
"This guy is not a pro pickleball player,"
but he's one of the best singles players in the world.
Ryan Sherry is a legend.
It pisses me off that he is three steps faster than me.
What a shot from Sherry.
And three levels smarter.
And he looks like a fat troll.
Championship point.
And it's the backhand that does it for Sherry.
He is a champion.
I also believe that he's been
one of the most important people in the sport.
He's been a huge connector.
For brands such as the PPA, and ESPN, MLP.
He is a mad man with a huge heart.
Who's ready for some ladies pro doubles?
I'm watching one of closest friends, Parris Todd,
um, love the girl to death.
She's been there for me, been there for her.
We both won our first tournaments the same week.
Parris Todd!
Parris Todd, she's one of the new crop of players
coming into the sport that's looking at pickleball
as a professional career.
Loves pushing the fashion envelope
in the pickleball world, which I think is needed.
I don't think I'd look good in anything she wears,
so, you know, darn.
Um...
But definitely one to watch.
My name is Parris Todd.
I am currently ranked top 15
in every single division in pickleball right now.
I have been on this journey for about a year now.
I originally started, I was a professional tennis player.
Trying to kill the ball.
I turned pro when I was 14 years old,
so I was touring all over the world
with both my parents.
Mexico City.
Go, Parris Todd.
What do you have to say to your fans?
What do you gotta say?
Oh, no, you're gonna get her started.
We don't wanna go there.
"Was Parris rebellious?"
Okay, so I had to read books on the strong-willed child.
Where are you going?
It's like you weren't there when she lit her bedroom on fire.
You weren't there... Like, I could go on and on.
Even her piano teacher had her by the neck and dropped her off
at our doorstep and said, "She's unteachable."
You weren't there when she got kicked out of school.
I mean...
When she was seven years old,
the very first day when I took her to Bollettieri,
I woke her up in bed with a camera.
- Hi. Yeah.
You know, you talk about manifest.
You know, she was already trained
then, "I'm a world champion."
And that wasn't our goal.
That was never our intention.
All we did, me and Angela, as parents
was just fostered that and encouraged that and just,
you know, started to do the things that we knew
that we needed to do to build a champion.
I think after playing about six months,
I really started to have, like, a little bit of success
in some singles wins.
Parris Todd with a championship point.
Parris Todd!
A major victory over the great Anna Leigh Waters.
For me, being a professional athlete,
it's also about my brand
and building, you know, myself.
Ohh!
Well, congratulations.
Parris Todd, Lauren Stratman, moving on to the second round.
Parris said this, I asked her, "What is your goal?"
That's what I asked Parris.
"What is your goal for the first year?"
She said, "I wanna make a million dollars."
I said, "Okay."
Alright, big news, Tom is sitting pretty.
He's got all the players wrapped up.
Um, Steve's kinda hung out in the wind.
He doesn't have anybody, so he's gotta think of a way
that he can get back into the game.
And he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
He basically gets celebrity investors
like Tom Brady, LeBron James, and Drew Brees
to buy MLP teams.
A massive number of celebrity and pro athletes
are investing in, yes, pickleball,
including Kevin Love, Tom Brady, and LeBron James.
I'm super excited to announce
that I'm officially joining the MLP family, pickleball.
Let's go.
♪ It's about to be a problem ♪
♪ Yeah, we on fire, better not try us ♪
♪ 'Cause we gon' run it up when we touchdown ♪
If you're gonna raise money to try and build the next big sport,
who better to invest than athletes
who, you know, have been at the highest level.
Someone like LeBron is buying a team,
shit is pretty real!
So now he's back in the game
and all the players really wanna play MLP,
so they're the ones really putting the pressure on Tom.
But Tom's not a guy to just sit around.
So what does he do?
He starts his own
celebrity-invested team league.
He calls it VIBE.
Um, I don't know if I wanna talk about VIBE.
You really want me to talk about it?
I will if you really want me to.
Okay. Um...
VIBE Pickleball was our opportunity
to launch our own team league.
Whether we liked it or not, we had somebody
coming to us every week wanting to buy a team,
even though we didn't do that.
And we were gonna bring in Mark Cuban
and Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Phelps.
I'm really close with Tom Dundon.
And, you know, he was talking about the VIBE group,
if I had any interest in it.
And I said, "Absolutely, I would love to be a part of it."
Reached out to Michael Phelps and talked to Devin Booker.
VIBE team owner Mark Cuban is in attendance right now.
Everybody seems to love pickleball these days.
We came up with the taglines,
we got the T-shirts, we got the players promoting it,
we got celebrity owners involved.
Was VIBE ever gonna launch? I... It's hard to believe so.
I mean, they have the hoodies, they have the hoodies.
So that makes it a business, right?
VIBE, I believe was the greatest marketing ploy
that pickleball has ever seen.
I think it was really just T-shirts with the logo VIBE.
Again, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass on that one too.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go 0-for-2 on that.
So who knows if VIBE was an actual league
or a negotiating tactic.
Either way, it got Steve back to the table
and force a merger of sorts.
And these two rivals now were becoming partners.
What could possibly go wrong?
I don't know that the merger makes sense
from a personality standpoint.
If you're having a lot of trouble
discussing major issues when you're dating,
it's probably not a great idea to get married.
We all have egos. I'm sure Tom Dundon has one.
I'm sure I have one.
When I looked at the situation calmly,
I thought this was better for the goals
that I originally did this, to have the merger.
It was better for the sport.
Uh, it was better to bring more people to the game.
Uh, better for the pro players.
This was the right thing to do.
So now that Tom's players
in the PPA could play MLP,
the PPA used that time and opportunity
to sign more players to contracts.
This really wasn't Steve's ethos
about telling players what to do.
He wanted players to be able to chase their dreams
wherever they wanted to do that.
Alright, we are back for another Kitchen conversation.
This week we have the hottest name
on the Tour of Pickleball, Parris Todd.
Parris is definitely the talk of the pro circuit right now,
as she's the only top pro player
who has refused to sign the PPA MLP contract.
Good. Yeah. Perfect.
Eyes up here. Eyes up, eyes up.
We offered her a very good deal,
and it was a very, I think, generous and fair deal,
but that doesn't mean that she can't think something different.
Parris is asking for ridiculous money.
You can't ask for $350,000 a year
from an organization who's not even making that in profit each year.
What do we think about Parris Todd holding out?
For whatever her reasons are, she chose not to,
and she chose not to put herself in the draft.
Um, whether it was money or whether it was exclusivity,
whatever, I don't know.
I like Parris, but I think
she's overvalued herself as a player.
Beautiful. Good.
I don't know what's going on there.
She's a tough cookie.
I'll tell you what, I think she wants a set figure.
So it's gonna be interesting to see what takes place there.
When you're doing something
that is different from other people,
there's always gonna be people that step in
and that will say things, and gossip goes around.
And especially in pickleball, it's such a small world.
They think that I'm crazy
and think I'm asking for way too much.
And it's not easy to hear
the gossip that goes on behind the scenes
and people not agreeing with what I'm doing.
But if I don't stand up, then who is gonna do it?
Right. And I totally admire you for that.
Lord, I thank You and I come into agreement
and I pray for all the sponsors
and all those who are sitting on the fence
and thinking about it.
I ask, Lord, that You would increase
their portfolios exponentially, Lord God,
that it would just be a drop in the bucket for them
to wanna be a part of this organization
and this industry that's booming.
And I thank You, Lord, for my child.
I thank You, Lord, that You have given her supernatural strength.
- Golden goose. - The golden goose.
- Yeah, baby. - Her ability, her agility.
Lord, I thank You that You will rise her
to places of great expectation.
And we put it under the blood of Jesus.
And we give You all the praise, all the honor,
and all the glory.
- And Parris said... - Amen.
- Amen! - Anything you wanna add?
Um, I just, Lord, I just pray over the players.
Only You know where the sport is going.
Only You know where You wanna put each of Your children.
We're here in the Mandalay Bay Convention Center.
We have the MLP draft, which is so incredible.
We have the top players in the world here getting drafted,
and, uh, there's also just an event going on here,
and they're bringing in four professional tennis players
in a team-style tournament this weekend.
We have the best of the best. Everyone's here.
Especially the players that couldn't play last year
that now with the merge are able to play.
I'm really excited 'cause I didn't get to play last year.
I think all of us PPA players saw how much fun it was,
so we're happy to be able to join for next year.
We're in Las Vegas right now for the MLP draft.
Well, I can't play.
Hopefully, I can get drafted for MLP.
But the system is based upon analytics,
but they're not based upon intangibilities.
I mean, Tim Tebow, great quarterback,
safe to say had the best fourth quarter QBR rating
in the history of football.
But he was terrible in other quarters.
So if you were gonna, you know, draft him based on statistics,
well, he's not there.
Eli Manning, not there.
But Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer.
I'm a Hall of Famer.
Safe to say based upon what I've done,
the people I've beaten, but I'm not used to
playing people six hours a day
and then go play a 23-year-old, you know?
I mean, Heidi Klum, she's not used to
going and running, you know, a marathon
than going to the runway.
She needs her time to prepare.
You know, I'm not saying I'm Heidi Klum,
but I need time to prepare.
In the last year,
the valuation of our MLP team
has increased from the low $200,000
to north of five million dollars.
Here we go. Here we go.
The MLP, when I started,
the teams were on for $100,000.
And once PPA and MLP joined up,
it started to go up to around three to six million,
is the numbers I heard.
And, you know, in five years
I could easily see that trend continuing
and it could be upwards of 20 million.
Like everything in our culture right now,
valuations just go up like crazy because of a feeling.
Well, what's wild to me is I've had people call me,
who, you know, have a lot of money,
and when they tell me the valuation
that they're talking about now,
which I have no idea what's it's true or not,
it's about eight times what I'm in at.
Would I invest in a pickleball team at $5 million?
No, 'cause it's like Starbucks.
Why didn't I know? It's like Uber.
Why didn't I know? It's too late for me.
I've had a couple that I got in early on,
so I missed pickleball.
It's almost impossible to explain
why pickleball has taken off the way that it did,
but clearly people respond well to it
and they're willing to pay large amounts of money for it.
And some of the players are making a lot of money.
♪ I'm an all star in every sport ♪
♪ Bases loaded we run it full court ♪
♪ It's a touchdown you better press record ♪
♪ I'm a champion with rings but I need more ♪
♪ I'm an all star in every sport ♪
♪ Bases loaded we run it full court ♪
First of all, how do you value a pro pickleball player?
At the moment it's like,
what's their following on Instagram?
Like, how many ads can they be in?
'Cause I don't really think it's based on who's winning.
Most of the hard work is done off the court,
like not just with training and stuff,
but, like, you know, contracts and interviews
and, you know, stuff like that.
I'm Anna Leigh Waters
and I'm pumped to be the new Lock Laces athlete.
I'm sponsored by Fila.
You know, Fila is an international company.
So it's just been, like, really amazing to see
how pickleball has grown as like I've kind of grown with it.
When you have any large amount of money
being thrown around, that's amazing for pickleball.
It's amazing for the pros.
There's really nobody that loses, that's for sure.
You have people making, like,
$150,000, $200,000 a year on paddle deals.
For sure Ben Johns is selling product.
His paddles are the best.
Joola is getting their worth of whatever they paid Ben.
Anytime I need to fuel my performance,
Pickle Fuel is what gets me to that next level.
More money comes in, more fame comes in.
I mean, it's life. More money, more problems.
I think Puff Daddy said it. Biggie or whoever.
"Mo Money Mo Problems." It was Puffy, right?
Mase? Good outfits, weren't they?
You have Skechers deals worth 250 plus.
Hi, I'm Tyson McGuffin,
and I'm a Skechers Elite professional pickleball player.
When I first started this back in 2016,
I thought there was no way in hell
I was gonna be in a position
where I could just play full-time
and be like a full-time athlete.
Back to center court here at Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.
So I'm expecting more intense women's doubles action here.
What a point! Now, that's the kinda point that can spark a little fire
and get the MO going the other way.
Oh, yeah.
So I'm the observer.
I'm the narrator. I sort of... what I'm seeing.
He is sort of an expert
and, uh, he knows what he's talking about.
And so he can provide that color and analysis.
And I sort of...
I'm great for, I think, for the, for the new eye.
Yeah. And there's, there's good banter.
We just say whatever we want, and, uh--
- It's really relaxed. - It's great.
I heard it was, like, seven million people
are watching this tournament here from Las Vegas
on the Tennis Channel,
like, maybe seven and a half million people.
Oh, sorry. Wait a minute, that was thousand.
Seven thousand people are...
Not a lot.
Wow.
Tereschenko did a great job there
of holding that outside forehand dink and...
There's not that many people watching the sport.
So until there's more viewership,
people are basically, like, betting on a promise.
And it's kind of like a scary thing...
'cause that could eventually fall.
I think we're in the midst of a bubble
that is frothing right now.
There's just no way
a lot of us are worth what we're getting paid.
My first check in 2020 was for $250.
That didn't even cover my entry fees, anything.
Now it's like you get paid to go to the tournament.
Prize money is going up.
I always wanna be optimistic about it,
but the average sports fan is not gonna tune in
and watch me dink and win a firefight.
Like, my own father doesn't watch some of my matches
'cause he just thinks it's too boring.
This isn't the NBA where they're making millions off of us.
They've self-admitted.
They're making nothing off of us.
The first pick in the 2023
Major League Pickleball draft,
the New Jersey 5s select Anna Leigh Waters.
I almost compare the PPA and MLP
and what they're doing to, to like raising venture capital
as an early stage startup
where, you know, you're not really making money,
but you just are pumping in so much and elevating it
to where, you know, it has inherent value
until they do make money.
As an accountant, I think going through their books
would just be crazy.
MLP-PPA merger, we're about to see
the best of the best compete against each other next year.
How cool is that for the sport?
Yeah, I'm super excited.
I have a theory because of the MLP and PPA merger,
once they come together and they have all the players,
they're not gonna pay us anymore.
I'm not gonna get an appearance fee
to show up to a tournament
where they are not seeing any profit return on.
Like, see ya, kick rocks, you know.
Something that just got thrown our way,
this bubbly team event taking place this weekend.
My set guarantee to show up was supposed to be 40.
I was told last week that it's now five.
Uh, typical pickleball bullshit, if you know what I mean.
Another prime example.
We were all supposed to stay at Mandalay Bay.
We were told the week of the event
that we're all being moved to.
My wife contacted the PPA and said,
there was no way we're staying at. That place looks like
it's been chewed up and spit out and stomped on.
And, yes, we are heading in the right direction
and the PPA tour seems like it's the right tour
and there's plenty of longevity,
but there's just a lot of red flags
that, that comes with it, if you know what I mean.
Apparently a bunch of wealthy people have
decided that, that this is like a game
that they sort of can control what's going on
as far as, you know, having their sort of little hobby,
uh, that they can potentially make money off of
is the way I see it.
You know, I find it strange
that they are asking people to pay a lot of money,
like my friend Kim Clijsters, who I love,
I go, "Where's your team?"
"I don't know. It's gonna be something."
Well, shouldn't that, you know, when you're investing in a team,
I would think it would matter a little bit where it is.
But apparently it's so big that it doesn't matter.
It could be up in a cloud and you can make millions.
You have this interesting phenomenon
where athletes from other sports
who are going to retire, move into the pickleball arena.
You're gonna have tennis players
who made it to the highest levels.
Like a John Isner or a Jack Sock.
They will be able to have a longer shelf life
on a pickleball court.
Right here at Tennis Channel we had Andrea Petkovic,
who was one of the great tennis players of the modern age,
and we said, "Well, what do you think of pickleball?"
And she said, "Well, I think it's a great game."
I said, "Well, but tennis is a sport."
And we said, "Well, what's the difference?"
And she said, "Well, a game is something you can play
while you're drinking."
I don't think the best players in the world
are drinking a cocktail
while they're playing at the highest level.
I will bring the rum to our matches and anybody,
if they need some, give 'em a little shot.
They play better. I've tested it.
In pickleball, if you're a really good athlete
there's a fair chance that, you know,
you could be competitive in this game.
Will Jack Sock be better than Ben Johns?
That's an interesting twist that hasn't really existed
with any other sport in a very meaningful way.
Michael Jordan found out he wasn't
a professional baseball player, right?
Even though if anyone could transfer,
you, you would have thought it would have been him.
I don't know if LeBron's going to pickleball after this,
but, you know, seeing Sam Querrey
going from the tennis circuit to this
is just unbelievable.
finals,.
You look like you're 400 years old with that on.
In this respect, I think it's more
of an extension of their careers.
They're getting to the point
where they're not gonna train for tennis
and put their bodies through everything
that tennis requires.
- No.
At the beginning of the year my ranking was dropping.
I wasn't enjoying tennis as much,
and then ultimately, I had a...
I tore the tendon in my elbow here,
and I'm honestly happy that I tore the tendon.
It kind of helped me make the decision to retire.
Oh, any top tennis player that came in
and thinks they could just play the next week?
Singles, maybe they can come over
and they can compete fairly quickly.
Maybe give 'em six months or so.
Game translates a little bit better.
Playing doubles pickleball
is like going from checkers to chess.
Nice. Let's go, let's go right here.
The part I really don't like is when they started
to make it seem like it's harder or better than tennis.
I'm like... no.
I think the best pickleball player would be someone
who's like, five feet tall but extremely long arms.
The top five male tennis player in the world
would come over and lose to Anna Leigh Waters.
Without a doubt, I'll bet everything I have on it.
It's a battle of the sexes.
We've got Anna Leigh Waters and Jessie Irvine
playing Jack Sock and John Isner.
Can the tennis stars show us what they've learned?
This is a Bobby Riggs type of situation here.
And a gorgeous ATP from Jessie Irvine.
Look how much fun John Isner is having.
He's jawing away on Twitter.
"Yeah, my team's gonna win.
This is only about who's gonna get second place."
Oh, get up, Jack Sock. Oh, no.
Ooh!
I think tennis players are realizing
it's not the step down thing.
Pickleball is... difficult.
We are on Tennis Channel and Isner and Sock have love.
Very hard to control the pace of play.
So they're all learning that.
Oh, and he goes tweener into the net.
With anything work hard enough at it,
you know you can get good, but they're not the same.
- Ooh! - Look at Sock hustle.
This is a different team here from Isner and Sock.
These guys are on fire right now.
Look at Sock pull that down the line.
And Sock is coming for Anna Leigh Waters.
I mean, Jack Sock is really good.
And if you know Jack, you've seen him play tennis.
He was eighth in the world in singles.
He's won multiple Grand Slam titles in doubles
and that translates over to pickleball.
ATP from Jack Sock!
Who saw a third game in this coming?
Not one soul.
And Jack Sock speeds it up down the middle.
But look at her blast the big man.
I think all the other pickle players there
wanted the girls to beat them to prove, like,
hey, there's a big difference
between, like, the top pickle players
and these tennis players that came in.
Drama building here.
It's seven-eight.
And those hands of Sock.
Pressure was on the girls to win that.
As a tennis player, I absolutely loved it.
And they have done it!
Sock, Isner lose game one 11-0
and come roaring back to win 11-9.
The tennis world is probably crowing right now
because John Isner and Jack Sock
beat Jessie Irvine and Anna Leigh Waters,
which I didn't see coming, nobody saw coming.
It's not about, like, this is going to be a sport
where it's gonna bypass tennis,
and, um, it's gonna become
one of the biggest sports in the world or something.
I would find that laughable, honestly.
As more and more money pours into the sport,
seems to be gaining a lot of attention from people,
the MLP draft basically had a few surprises.
Hardly any of the celebrity ownership showed up.
Tyson really wasn't drafted all that high.
And, Parris, well, she opted out completely
and basically nobody watched on television.
So the future of professional pickleball
hangs in the balance.
I mean, pickleball is fun.
We got into it because it was fun.
You have a blast,
and, yes, it's competitive,
but I think people now are seeing it as a job.
Who's that?
Pro pickleball has definitely changed in the last five years,
and I think it's gonna continue to change.
How's the event going?
Yeah? How many people do we have here?
Will you say hello to my husband?
Just say hello, Joe.
- It's the wrong way around. - Yeah, you're right.
Hi, Joe. I heard you're leaving your wife for me.
No, he's not.
- That was cute. - Of course.
You know, I'm always thinking of,
for me, life after pickleball.
I'm not stupid enough to know that my shelf life
is gonna last forever.
Hey, how are ya?
We've seen the evolution of pro sports before.
We know that path that it's gonna take.
It can either be smooth or bumpy,
depending on, on the entities that are in the pro space
and how they decide to play nice in the sandbox or not.
I hope none of that gets into the amateur recreational space
because it is a phenomenal space,
and if that keeps going,
then pickleball will survive.
- Thank you. - Great to have you guys here.
Thanks for coming. What do you think? Maybe?
- Thank you. - Good luck, folks.
The APP tour was a vision
that I came up with back in spring of 2019.
My whole goal was to provide a great experience
that all players can benefit from,
regardless of what their playing ability is.
Your check for super senior is up with Dana,
up at the information desk. I already wrote it yesterday.
If people wanna label us as a minor league tour,
I suggest they come out there
and put their paddle in a hand
and go out there and see
if they can win an APP Tour stop.
Let's go. Come on, Parris.
I think right now the sport is in the unique phase
where the pros and the amateurs are still at the same venue.
There it is, right there. Come on.
Nice, Parris.
It's just so unique
that you can run into a Parris Todd
at the lunch truck while you're an amateur player
and get a chance to meet with them.
William. Whoo!
The sport is still in a phase
where the pros are still very approachable.
Let's go!
Good game, guys. Come on.
It's good, good to be tested.
Why did Parris not sign the PPA MLP contract?
- Here we go. - It's a good question.
Come on!
There's a lot of misconceptions about Parris
and the road she's taking.
And you read the social media feeds like,
"Oh, she overvalued herself
and she doesn't know what she's doing."
What's, what's wrong with being very valuable?
It's like, that's what we raised you to be, valuable.
A lot of people said she asked for too much money.
It was never about money from the leagues.
The leagues offered her a lot of money.
It was about the obligations and the restrictions.
I mean, she's literally hitting it so freakin' hard.
Main restriction was
that you could only play PPA tournaments.
If you're only playing on one league,
then you limit your eyeballs that you're gonna be able to have.
So why don't you just go back and renegotiate the deals?
You don't like the restrictions, negotiate it.
There was a time period put on that.
It's unfortunate the way that it all got set up with the merger,
that PPA also controlled MLP.
So she basically got shut out of the MLP
because she wouldn't do that.
And that was part of the power play I think.
Yes!
You gotta have an entrepreneurial mindset
where it's like, I'm not just gonna take a paycheck.
I'm gonna go make my own paycheck,
and I'm gonna make paychecks for other people as well too.
- You know, roll the dice. - That's exactly what we did.
Congratulations punching your ticket
to Championship Sunday, so...
That's our encouragement for her.
Go be you and go fly like the eagle.
Don't be a chicken on the farm.
It's hard to believe that nearly two years ago,
we had the first MLP event.
It was pretty amateur, like, you know,
Steve was worried about his league even staying around
'cause Tom was really controlling all the top players.
And, you know, look where we are now.
Both leagues are thriving.
And this, you know, supposed merger,
things are looking pretty optimistic
for professional pickleball.
♪♪
I think the relationship between PPA and MLP
is actually going better than people might have thought,
including probably myself, to be honest.
Let's go, Pioneers.
And I think that could have massive impacts
on making the sport more popular.
I think there are about
three to five brand names in the sport
who really matter and lend credibility
to any of the events that they're playing.
Yeah!
I think you have Ben Johns,
you have Anna Leigh, you have Tyson,
and then you could argue a couple of more,
but I don't think that any of them
are on the level of those three.
Stars in the world today dictate what happens.
So the question is Anna Leigh, Ben Johns,
do they become bigger than the game?
Um, we'll find out.
Yeah!
Who wins and loses in this situation,
like, I think the players were waiting for a long time
'cause we had the APP, we had MLP, and PPA,
and Steve and Tom were just
in direct competition with each other.
So you could go here and get this offer
and you could go here, and then you could go here.
Now that they've merged,
we've kind of lost all of our powers.
Once the players are bought up, there's no bidding war anymore.
Steve Kuhn makes me feel a little bit better about it.
Come on!
Because I really do feel like he truly loves it.
And he will stick through it thick and thin.
But we need to form some kinda coalition
or something like that.
We have to have some standards.
Alright, guys, I like pickleball,
like, as much as the next person.
I'm loving it. I love playing these tournaments.
The only problem is they have no locker rooms at these events.
So I just pulled into a truck stop
that has, like, showers and stuff.
I sacrificed the Filas.
There was zero shot I was touching
the floor in this place.
Alright. First-ever truck stop shower complete.
Uh, and I got out alive, most importantly.
There's no parking for the pro players.
Whereas PPA, MLP, there's always... - Yeah.
We've been walking an average of
probably a mile and a half a day
just because we've had to park up the hill.
We're all kinda getting hosed to a certain degree.
And now we're all under contract,
and we may be getting used and abused a little bit
and it shouldn't be taking place.
So something needs to be done.
You know, there's a lot of things that you could change.
You're talking about having 401s,
but there's no ice at tournaments.
I mean, come on, like, let's,
you know, let's start with the basics.
Let's go!
Now they're only down five, anything is possible.
Since this last MLP, you had players
who had their airfare covered,
their housing, whether it was hotel or a house,
their rental car, their food costs covered.
And there were players that had to pay their way.
So, unfortunately, sometimes players are losing money.
From a pro pickleball standpoint,
I think that needs to change.
Championship point.
- Yeah! - Seattle Pioneers
will take their second straight championship
in the first ever MLP Championship Dreambreaker.
♪ I was scared of snakes ♪
♪ I was getting nervous ♪
♪ But I learned they had a vital role to play ♪
♪ A little understanding goes a long way ♪
Breaking news.
The merger is off.
It's bloodbath in pickle land.
Connor has said that he knew something was up
because everything was great, on the up and up,
and then all of a sudden he gets...
Like, he's not hearing from them anymore.
Thursday, it breaks that MLP
is going to go off on their own,
and they're no longer gonna do the deal with the PPA.
And they're signing top players.
And, yep, and all of a sudden...
Yeah, they're essentially, they're signing top players.
It's PPA versus MLP.
It's become this crazy divide.
It was an arms race, but here's what's wild.
The owners of MLP did not know about this.
They had no clue that Steve Kuhn had done this.
We're talking to players, they want confidentiality.
We're talking to agents, they want confidentiality.
We're trying to be effective in signing
as many players as we can.
We are, we are walking down a high-wire and--
We're actually, we're sprinting on a high-wire.
We were told specifically and directly
that they had no interest in ever, you know,
reaching anywhere near the amount
that we paid our players.
Yes.
It was a non-binding memorandum of understanding,
a non-binding MoU.
And we didn't succeed in closing that deal
right after it was written.
In that time, the world changes.
Yeah?
Is that removing Tom or is that removing Connor?
I think Tom's problem is there's probably something
in the PPA purchase that requires him to keep Connor,
at least for a certain period of time.
Steve has talked to his father multiple times
over the last few days.
He hasn't asked for a specific offer.
We don't wanna, like, throw out a number
that they're just gonna, like, take back, shop, counter.
Riley would be like a diamond, man.
- Yeah. - You know he brings Ben.
Ben should be with us anyway.
This will be a career. He'll be a CEO someday.
He should be a part of what you are doing.
He should be part of that.
We got some more work to do here.
Uh, many of the players have signed with us.
We'd like to sign all of 'em.
We've got a lot of yeses.
We've had a lot of, you know, very close so far,
not signed, but very close.
We have zero, uh, people who've said no.
Major League Pickleball threw a huge offer Ben's way.
Uh, but with the expectation that he likely would not take it.
But what are they asking?
Like, we'll fix it, so she's always number one?
- We can't do that. - No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no.
Some sort of point system or some sort of...
Right.
We've got a couple of options on the table, guys, okay?
One would be, you know,
taking partial ownership of an existing team.
Like, for example, she could take,
you know, I'm gonna regret saying this.
She could take my stake in the Florida Smash.
She gets a third of a team,
mark-to-market $3.5 million right now.
If we use a bazooka right now,
we might be able to get her and win this thing,
and it would actually may be symbolic
coming from the CEO to give up his stake.
I mean, again, that's a $10 million gift then.
That's, that's a lot. That's two bazookas.
I know MLP gave Anna Leigh,
literally, we'll call it an FU deal.
Like, here, let's throw just absolute crazy money
and see if she bites.
These are real pro athlete numbers now.
Yeah, Anna Leigh and Parris Todd and Lea Jansen,
that's, that's, that's a knockout.
It's just, it's just Catherine on her own
hitting the ball against the wall.
We got Parris Todd, I don't know if you know that.
Sure.
Yeah. More, more than average.
While we were on here, I just got a notification that Parris signed MLP.
That's big.
If Parris signed, I think we'd expect
Hunter and Yates to follow.
And probably Simone.
Let's go. Yes.
Tyson McGuffin's deal was two years.
What do you guys think he was getting for two years?
It was one million for two years.
I just don't know if it was a mil a year
or if it was a mil over two years.
I mean, this has been 36 hours straight,
pretty much like this.
But, uh, we're coming at this
from the perspectives of the athletes first.
And, you know, are we gonna get ripped
by some of our owners and investors
for having, you know,
gone too far in some of these contracts?
Yeah, that's the next fight.
That's the next fight. That's coming.
Right now, I'm just feeling exhaustion, to be honest.
But I think I've run out of emotions for the day.
I had a lot yesterday and a lot earlier today,
but right now I'm just kind of at peace.
I think we're... Yeah, I know what we're trying to do
and what, what we're hoping to accomplish,
and I know how great it's gonna be.
I hope you know, Ben and Anna Leigh
will, will join us on this journey.
Uh, our goal would be, you know, working with them
and all the other great players on MLP
to show more people how amazing this sport is.
I feel like just in the last 48 hours
of, of these negotiations,
I mean, I feel like we literally just witnessed
the professionalization of this sport.
You know me, I'm at, I'm at every event
watching every point.
By the way, I'm watching the,
I'm watching the PPA right now.
Like, this is what I do.
We hear that there's a lot of burnout.
I mean, this, this tour has been a grind for them.
You know, they have a great run.
They're on the court for 12 hours
for three days in a row,
and even if they win everything, win the championship,
they're on a plane four days later.
Uh, it's a grind and, and it's burning 'em out.
It's burning out their bodies. It's burning 'em out.
I mean, it's burning out fans interest, to be honest.
It just feels like the right thing to do for the sport.
Last time I asked you this question you wouldn't answer it.
So we're gonna try again.
Tell me about your relationship with Tom Dundon.
I don't have much of a relationship with Tom Dundon, to be honest.
I've only met him...
I only met him in person, I...
I wanna say once. Right?
I've never spoken to him in my life.
Not even on an email.
I think I met him in person once.
So not much of a relationship, to be honest.
And, uh, what about Connor Pardoe?
Funny, fun, fun questions.
- Yeah... - Don't say anything.
Yeah.
Uh... Wow.
Uh, it's the story of...
people absolutely falling in love
with something that they never thought they would, for most of 'em.
I mean, you never thought you'd fall in love with pickleball.
Yeah, but that's not the story.
The story is...
No, the story is about a guy with a dream.
And he's, and he's manifested it...
- Well, that's nice. - ...just through
10,000 hours of finding something he loved.
This is, you know, his, his, his second mountain that he found.
And he's, uh, you know, he found a sport that he loved
and changed it into something even better
and, you know, made it, made it what it is now,
and it's, it's, it's amazing.
It's, it's almost killed him several times in the process.
You're laughing, but you know I'm right.
That's, that's almost not a joke. - It's not a joke.
It's almost killed you several times in the process.
- But... - Yeah.
You know, you're doing it for the love
and now you're doing it for,
to make it better for the players and...
- and you're almost there. - Yeah.
I can't imagine these players ever anticipated
making this type of money.
All the players I talked to,
they assumed that pickleball would get to this level,
but it was the next generation
that was gonna reap the reward.
So, Anna Leigh, three mil for, for three years, she was given.
She asked for 48 hours to decide.
She ends up going with the PPA.
Tyler said that Ben signed a three-year deal,
but PPA's announcement was only a one-year deal.
Yeah, right.
So I think that's interesting too,
'cause if it is only a one-year deal...
you know, Ben's a free agent after next year.
What is the likelihood that these two entities
smooth it over once again at some point?
And I know that doesn't seem, like,
possible or feasible in this moment.
But again, you know, especially when big money is involved,
it seems like cooler heads prevail.
You know, Kuhn doesn't have as much control, right?
He is one of five board seats.
Dundon is one of five board seats.
Uh, and Pardoe is not on that board.
So, you know, Steve and Pardoe can't, you know,
turn the guns on each other and blow this thing up again.
Now players can train full-time.
They can wrap themselves around good people.
Uh, they can use resources, body work,
trainers, coaches, you know...
- Recovery. - They have a little extra dough now.
So, definitely invest your money the right way.
Every player that has worked their butts off,
or that has been here for the last few years or more,
like, time is now.
But a lot of people fail to realize
the economics behind this.
The economics behind MLP
is that at the moment, they were not profitable
or even making money.
They were losing a lot of money.
Steve decides to...
I don't wanna use the word, "pull a fast one,"
but Steve decides to move the goalposts one more time.
You know, we need money. We need to sell a team.
- Mm-hmm. - Is my understanding.
And they were like, well, selling another team now
goes against the terms of the new merger.
Yeah.
And at that point,
several members that are on the MLP board
were like, "Dude, we're out. We're over this. We're out."
The next day, Steve, basically,
I think he has a little bit of a,
we'll call it a, come to Jesus meeting with himself. - Uh-huh.
Realizes that maybe he's finally lost, you know,
his last allies within the MLP
and he releases a statement.
Sleeves here with your Senior Pickleball Report.
Let's get it going.
Steve Kuhn resigns. What happened?
I mean, they were just dominating, you know,
in the war room, signing all these players.
And at the end of the day, you know,
he resigns with a letter? What went wrong?
Well, I think he got caught up in a bidding war
and he really lost, you know, control of the situation
and the trust and faith of his shareholders
by really trying to raise more capital
by selling other MLP franchises,
and intentional or not,
it started to feel and maybe look
a little like a Ponzi scheme.
So, at the end of the day,
he didn't get Ben or Anna Leigh,
which who knows the impact of that.
And, you know, he's ousted by the very league that he created.
A lot of people sort of think of Steve Kuhn
as the ideologue in this story.
I'm curious, in your past business experience
what might make an ideologue fall short?
Everybody has this dream
of what things can become or this idea,
and there's a big difference
between ideas and execution.
And I probably focus more on the execution
and feel like if you execute every day
and do things a certain way,
the outcome should be certain.
But if you start with the outcome
and you expect people to treat you
as if you've already accomplished the things
that we had not in pickleball accomplished,
then you don't get taken seriously
and you probably fail.
Um, so I just think we...
I just go about it different.
I think in recent weeks there was merger,
then there wasn't, then there is.
Um, and so that, that part
has been, uh,
maybe a little emotional and a little traumatic,
but the end is...
the end is everybody should be focused
on how do we continue
to elevate the game and grow the sport.
And it feels like that's where it's headed.
Um...
there's just, there's a lot of hard work
that needs to be done.
And the less you can spend
arguing about who's better,
um, or who did what to whom.
Uh, it'd be better to just focus on
more fans, better production,
better venues, better sponsors,
better social media, better website.
And I think that's...
It feels like that's where it's headed right now,
is that you can actually sort of...
elevate the sport to where
people think it's possible to go.
And so until you prove it, it's just a story.
I tell my kids, if I want a story, I'll buy a book.
And so right now we're telling a story
about where this is gonna go.
And now it's up to us to go do the work
to make sure it gets there.
Whew! What a ride, folks.
A little bumpy along the way, but, hey, at the end of the day,
stay calm and paddle on.
One, two, one, two, three and...
♪ Two at a time they fall in line ♪
♪ The usual suspects ♪
♪ In the morning light ♪
♪ A firefight ♪
♪ Ready at the net ♪
♪ My shoes are tied ♪
♪ My laces tight ♪
♪ I got my sun hat, my water ♪
♪ My paddles, my life ♪
♪ Ready to fight ♪
♪ I don't easily scare ♪
♪ You can't go in the kitchen ♪
♪ If you take it in the air ♪
♪ Two at a time they fall in line ♪
♪ The usual suspects ♪
♪ In the morning light ♪
♪ A firefight ♪
♪ Ready at the net ♪
♪ My shoes are tied, my laces tight ♪
♪ I got my sun hat, my water ♪
♪ My paddles, my life ♪
♪ Ready to fight ♪
♪ I don't easily scare ♪
♪ You can't go in the kitchen ♪
♪ If you take it in the air ♪
Whoo!