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[static]

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[mysterious music playing]

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[Karen] Just because
the clock strikes twelve,

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doesn't mean it's midnight.

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How do you break up the vision
but keep it whole?

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It's like, for every step
of that journey,

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it's just a puzzle piece.

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[music continues]

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[Karen] When you're making
a puzzle,

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you got that reference picture
right there.

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00:01:03,523 --> 00:01:05,233
But you're putting
these pieces together,

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00:01:05,233 --> 00:01:06,943
but you're not
losing sight of that.

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00:01:06,943 --> 00:01:09,445
And every piece, even though
it's not that whole picture,

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every piece represents
the entirety

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00:01:11,030 --> 00:01:14,617
and the-the totality
of that picture.

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How do you do that?

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How do you move forward

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and keep your dream
while you, you have to...

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you have to fragment it?

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And even though
you see it, it's...

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you still got to
put it together.

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But you can't put it together
if you don't keep it whole.

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[Jazmin Jones] Mm,
it's a conundrum.

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-Right? [laughs]
-Yeah. [laughs]

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[Karen] You're on
the right path.

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You're doing the right things.

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You're thinking
the right thoughts.

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-Right?
-[Jazmin] Mm-hmm.

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[Karen] So you're able
to embrace your dream

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with every step.

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So I think
that's where you're at.

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You're-- you're, like,
in that space

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where dream becomes vision
and vision becomes reality.

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And you'll have something
to go back and look at

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when you're ready.

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And it-- Nothing may come of it.

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But at least you have
a place to begin from.

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00:02:07,878 --> 00:02:09,338
Mm-hmm.

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You got to get
your kibbles and bits.

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[Mavis Beacon] Relax.

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Take one deep breath
and let it all out.

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You are ready for lessons.

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[trilling beeping]

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[Jazmin and Olivia] Welcome

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00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,820
to the Seeking Mavis Beacon
hotline.

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Our investigators
are standing by.

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[Jazmin] We want to hear
what you remember

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about Mavis Beacon.

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After the tone,
tell us what you know.

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[Olivia] And don't forget
to leave your name,

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location
and contact information.

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-[Jazmin] Bye-bye.
-[Olivia] Bye!

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Hi, guys. Happy Memorial Day.

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And in this video,
I'm gonna show you

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how I learned
how to type so fast

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from "Mavis Beacon."

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"Mavis Beacon."

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[boy]
"Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing."

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Oh, my God. That's just
some MLG shit right here.

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First of all,
she was a typing champ.

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She is me.

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[Derek Kelly] This is
"Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing."

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It's a typing program.

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It was created in 1987.

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Is that "Mavis Beacon"?

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[Ms. Schwartz] Yeah. This place
is the best. [chuckles]

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This is a film about trickery
and fraud.

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About... lies.

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[newscaster] Mavis's remarkable,
nearly seven-decade career

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was honored this month
at the Kennedy Center.

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Mavis has done it all

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and worked
with just about everybody.

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When people heard
that deep old soul

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coming out of that computer,
they wept.

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Which, understandably,
concerned her.

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But her mother...

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[people laughing]

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Her mother told her,
"Mavis, they're happy."

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♪ Where mothers can't see... ♪

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Mavis has, um,
deep love and affection

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and parental guidance
and support.

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♪ I believed those things... ♪

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She's an icon, she's a legend,
and she is the moment.

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Now, come on, now.

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Give it up for Mavis Beacon!

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[cheering, applause]

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Is Mavis Beacon still alive?
Is Mavis Beacon a real person?

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[robotic voice]
I don't know what's reality,

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but I assure you,

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I'm as real as anything
or any person.

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What's a scam
that's become so normalized

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that we don't even realize
it's a scam anymore?

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I was today years old
when I found out that this woman

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was not a real person.

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[Reed Galin]
Many callers expressed dismay

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that cyberspace seems
more like the Twilight Zone.

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Are you going to be like
the masses?

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Are you going to allow words
to hypnotize you?

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[all] No!

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A few models
have faced the cover of

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"Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing,"

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but Renée Lesperance
was the first. Clock it.

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[man] While Renée effectively
disappeared by 1990,

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after moving back to
the Caribbean,

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her character, Mavis Beacon,
went on to become

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an internationally-known star
of sorts.

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[in Creole]: We're looking for Mavis Beacon

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an important woman in technology

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aka Renee L'Esperance

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People of Jacmel, how are we doing?

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[man continues speaking Creole]

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[Mr. Jones] What do you need
this for?

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[Jazmin giggling] For my film.

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[Mr. Jones] Okay.

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[Mr. Jones]
Well, I hope it's in here.

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[Jazmin] What you got in there?

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[Mr. Jones] Treasure trove.

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[Jazmin]
We're looking for a tiny game

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of "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing."

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Does it ring any bells?

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-You remember being at Costco.
-I remember.

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I remember buying it at Costco.

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[Jazmin] Why'd you buy it?

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Because I had to type,
and I-- I wasn't a fast typer,

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so I was trying--

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Oh, so it was for you.
It wasn't for me.

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Well, it was for us.

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-It was a family experience.
-It was a family experience.

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Did you use it?

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I might've tried. I don't...

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-I guess I might've tried.
-Oh, wow.

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This might be a hot--
-That's a game changer.

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You got a disc right there.

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You got The Matrix
on PlayStation!

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See, this is promising.
What else you got?

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What is that?
Oh, that-- Oh, Dave Matthews.

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[both chuckle]

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Is there-- Watch it be empty.
Eh! I knew it.

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-Here's your little friend.
-Oh, little guy!

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[high-pitched]
"What the hell are you doing?

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How you been?
It's been a while!"

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I missed you. [laughs]

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Okay, all right, all right.

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Okay, so you remember
purchasing her.

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I don't remember when
I got divorced, to be honest.

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-I was in the fourth grade.
-Is that what it is?

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I'm not real good
with dates and times and stuff.

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[Jazmin] If I were
"Mavis Beacon..."

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[both laughing]

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-Where would I be?
-Wouldn't be in here.

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Yeah, I don't know.
But this is--

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This is the kind of box
it will be in, you know?

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That is the kind of box
it would be in.

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[Jazmin] Now I'm questioning
my own memory.

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We don't find it,
I guess I have to contend

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with losing a piece of history.

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All right. I'll take
the pink ones for Olivia.

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[Mr. Jones] All righty.

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Yeah, you got to meet
my collaborator who's in town.

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[Mr. Jones]
What does a collaborator do?

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00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:13,308
She's, like,
a 19-year-old coder, tech--

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She's super tech-savvy
and is helping me

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be thorough in my shit.

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All right.

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Appreciate you
for helping me anyway.

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Mm-hmm.

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[soft music playing]

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[harp music playing]

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[Jazmin] So, the video game,
bro-- nonprofit bros,

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they said we can use
their storage warehouse.

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-Or a room in it.
-[Olivia] Okay. I see.

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Do they have, like, Wi-Fi or...?

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[Jazmin] No, we have to get,
we have to get our own router.

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Um, the zoom is up top here.

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I'm doing Face ID
with a face full of camera, man.

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Uh...

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[Jazmin] The tongue out
helped you Face ID.

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[Olivia] Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh...

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So...

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[upbeat music playing]

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[Olivia] Introduce yourself.

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I'm a filmmaker
and an archivist.

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[Olivia] Ooh.

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00:08:05,485 --> 00:08:06,487
[laughing]

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00:08:06,487 --> 00:08:07,405
[Oliva] Fancy.

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00:08:07,405 --> 00:08:08,907
-Fancy.
- I don't know.

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I think it, it's made
more serious by all of this.

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What do you want to major in?

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[man] What you're doing now?

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You're gonna major
in what you're doing already?

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[Jazmin] Yeah.
Filmmaking. [chuckles]

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...have any pictures
of my daughter graduating

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without this
in the middle of her face.

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[Jazmin] Too bad.

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It's always shots
of this, like this.

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Hi, Jaz. How you doing?

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00:08:31,012 --> 00:08:32,805
Good job, Jaz!

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00:08:32,805 --> 00:08:33,932
[air horn blows]

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00:08:33,932 --> 00:08:36,350
I'm from
the Bay Area originally.

202
00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:40,270
Yeah. I was raised in
the suburbs of Silicon Valley.

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And my family,

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we had
this one desktop computer.

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And I spent a lot of time
after school on Napster,

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playing "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing."

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I don't know what it was
specifically about her

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that I gravitated to,
but I have very clear memories

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00:08:55,828 --> 00:08:59,998
of these Black hands
that would be on-screen.

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00:08:59,998 --> 00:09:02,167
And I think
that interest in technology

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00:09:02,167 --> 00:09:04,712
carried on
into my filmmaking practice.

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00:09:04,712 --> 00:09:07,005
And eventually,
I started asking myself,

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00:09:07,005 --> 00:09:08,173
"Who is Mavis Beacon?"

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00:09:08,173 --> 00:09:09,883
And not only
"Who is Mavis Beacon?"

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00:09:09,883 --> 00:09:11,052
"Why was she Black?"

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[girl] Okay! What! [laughs]

217
00:09:13,262 --> 00:09:15,472
One thing that I really,
really want to encourage

218
00:09:15,472 --> 00:09:17,683
is treating
our conspiracy theories

219
00:09:17,683 --> 00:09:18,808
as intuition.

220
00:09:18,808 --> 00:09:20,518
[Jazmin]
This was also around the time

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00:09:20,518 --> 00:09:22,688
that I became familiar with you

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00:09:22,688 --> 00:09:26,775
and your theory
around cyber doulas.

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[laughing]

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00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:30,278
Mm.

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00:09:31,363 --> 00:09:34,200
I definitely, like,
could write a handbook

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00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,745
on, like, how to track down
the personal information

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00:09:38,745 --> 00:09:41,707
of, um... of people online.

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00:09:41,707 --> 00:09:43,708
I mean, the Internet is, like,

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00:09:43,708 --> 00:09:46,837
where I learned about, like,
hacking and cybersecurity

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00:09:46,837 --> 00:09:49,090
and, like, computer programming.

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I kind of just,
like, fell into it.

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Like, I had access
to the Internet

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00:09:53,343 --> 00:09:55,763
at an age when no one should
have access to the Internet.

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00:09:55,763 --> 00:09:57,765
But at that time,
in the early 2000s,

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00:09:57,765 --> 00:09:59,475
people didn't know
how badly they needed

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00:09:59,475 --> 00:10:02,102
to keep their kids offline.
[chuckles]

237
00:10:02,102 --> 00:10:03,145
Hi.

238
00:10:03,145 --> 00:10:06,023
-[scattered greetings]
-[giggling]

239
00:10:07,358 --> 00:10:08,733
My name is Olivia Ross.

240
00:10:08,733 --> 00:10:11,362
I'm an eighth grader
at the Q004 school in Queens,

241
00:10:11,362 --> 00:10:14,698
and I have been interested
in, in technology

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00:10:14,698 --> 00:10:15,992
since I was about 11.

243
00:10:15,992 --> 00:10:17,618
[woman] Expert computer coder,

244
00:10:17,618 --> 00:10:19,120
she volunteers here

245
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,788
to help girls feel comfortable
in a new realm.

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00:10:21,788 --> 00:10:24,708
Olivia, you see yourself
as going into technology,

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00:10:24,708 --> 00:10:26,293
maybe computer science.

248
00:10:26,293 --> 00:10:27,920
What got you interested in this?

249
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,757
My brother brought home
this book on HTML and CSS,

250
00:10:31,757 --> 00:10:33,092
and he wouldn't let me see it.

251
00:10:33,092 --> 00:10:35,260
This really, pretty much
changed my life.

252
00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:36,553
He told me to google it.

253
00:10:36,553 --> 00:10:38,680
[harp music playing]

254
00:10:41,767 --> 00:10:44,687
The first metaphor
that I was given for, like,

255
00:10:44,687 --> 00:10:46,897
care work and how to,
like, hold people

256
00:10:46,897 --> 00:10:49,067
through difficult transitions
was through

257
00:10:49,067 --> 00:10:51,110
the work of doulas
and the work of midwives.

258
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:53,862
So, yeah, "cyber doula"
literally came

259
00:10:53,862 --> 00:10:56,032
off the cuff, because, like,

260
00:10:56,032 --> 00:10:59,077
what-what-what other word
would I grab for

261
00:10:59,077 --> 00:11:03,622
to denote someone who takes on
that work of, like,

262
00:11:03,622 --> 00:11:05,833
stewarding these, like,
healthy relationships

263
00:11:05,833 --> 00:11:08,835
between people
and their technologies?

264
00:11:09,420 --> 00:11:11,547
[gong ringing]

265
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:22,475
If I can address
Renée Lesperance,

266
00:11:22,475 --> 00:11:24,393
I would say...

267
00:11:25,602 --> 00:11:28,813
Oh, that's-- Okay, my first
thought is, "You did it."

268
00:11:28,813 --> 00:11:31,275
You know?
Like, "You reached somebody.

269
00:11:31,275 --> 00:11:34,862
Um, you inspired
a young Black kid..."

270
00:11:34,862 --> 00:11:36,280
[laughs]

271
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,243
"...to type and to feel embodied
with whatever aspiration I had."

272
00:11:41,243 --> 00:11:42,703
Right? Like...

273
00:11:42,703 --> 00:11:44,997
It was nice to see
a familiar face,

274
00:11:44,997 --> 00:11:46,582
and that's priceless.

275
00:11:46,582 --> 00:11:48,167
[Olivia] Hey. Hello.

276
00:11:48,167 --> 00:11:52,170
Um, I called about an order,
um, placed for Olivia Ross.

277
00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:53,630
[woman] The black
and white print--

278
00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:56,133
I think black-and-white pages,
you have 16 pages.

279
00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:58,885
That's minus the two files,
which I'm unable to open.

280
00:11:58,885 --> 00:12:00,303
I think the file is corrupt.

281
00:12:00,303 --> 00:12:03,015
So you might have to send me
a new file for those two.

282
00:12:03,015 --> 00:12:04,350
[Olivia] Okay.

283
00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:06,685
[Mandy Williams] Would
my relationship to computers,

284
00:12:06,685 --> 00:12:08,937
um, would my relationship
to computers have been, like,

285
00:12:08,937 --> 00:12:11,857
as trusting
if Mavis hadn't been there?

286
00:12:11,857 --> 00:12:13,233
Um...

287
00:12:13,233 --> 00:12:15,693
And, like, what does that mean?

288
00:12:15,693 --> 00:12:18,155
The people who
I was learning from,

289
00:12:18,155 --> 00:12:22,075
like, the images
of the instructors

290
00:12:22,075 --> 00:12:25,245
and, like,
what is called to mind

291
00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:27,957
when we think of
somebody being instructive

292
00:12:27,957 --> 00:12:30,167
or, um, informative

293
00:12:30,167 --> 00:12:32,753
or, like, the authority
on how to do something,

294
00:12:32,753 --> 00:12:37,007
it wasn't... it wasn't
dark-skinned Black women.

295
00:12:37,007 --> 00:12:41,970
Um, and, like, I remember
being kind of, like, stoked,

296
00:12:41,970 --> 00:12:44,515
in part because I was like,
"Now y'all gonna learn

297
00:12:44,515 --> 00:12:48,268
from the Black woman,
Mavis Beacon,

298
00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:51,772
and she's gonna teach you
how to type, so..."

299
00:12:51,772 --> 00:12:54,400
-[engine revving]
-[tires squealing]

300
00:13:01,615 --> 00:13:03,867
Why would y'all to do that
when we get out the car?

301
00:13:03,867 --> 00:13:05,285
That's hella weird! [laughs]

302
00:13:05,285 --> 00:13:06,828
-Y'all have a good one.
-What you do?

303
00:13:06,828 --> 00:13:08,538
[Jazmin]
Does the name Mavis Beacon

304
00:13:08,538 --> 00:13:09,748
mean anything to you?

305
00:13:09,748 --> 00:13:12,793
-Mavis Beacon.
-[Olivia] You know Mavis Beacon?

306
00:13:12,793 --> 00:13:14,462
[Maya] She's, like,
a digital Black woman,

307
00:13:14,462 --> 00:13:16,797
and she's like, "Welcome.
I'll teach you how to type."

308
00:13:16,797 --> 00:13:18,798
You get up there,
you start out like this,

309
00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:21,427
and the next thing you know,
you like this, so...

310
00:13:21,427 --> 00:13:23,012
Did you think she was real?

311
00:13:23,012 --> 00:13:25,805
-Um, excuse me?
-[man] Hey, you want weed?

312
00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:27,808
No, I don't need weed,
thank you.

313
00:13:27,808 --> 00:13:30,310
[Jazmin] You ever
heard the name Mavis Beacon?

314
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:31,770
-That's you?
-No, she did...

315
00:13:31,770 --> 00:13:33,188
She's a typing teacher.

316
00:13:33,188 --> 00:13:35,565
She's like the Aunt Jemima
of technology.

317
00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:36,692
Oh, yeah.

318
00:13:36,692 --> 00:13:38,318
And so we in here.
We got a headquarters.

319
00:13:38,318 --> 00:13:39,820
We trying to figure it out.

320
00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:41,530
You're trying to
get to the bottom of it?

321
00:13:41,530 --> 00:13:44,992
[Jazmin] We gonna get to
the bottom of it, sir, you know?

322
00:13:44,992 --> 00:13:46,577
-You got it?
-Yeah.

323
00:13:46,577 --> 00:13:47,870
Okay.

324
00:13:52,667 --> 00:13:54,335
Oh, my God.

325
00:13:54,335 --> 00:13:55,710
[answering machine beeps]

326
00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:57,212
[woman 1] Hello.

327
00:13:57,212 --> 00:14:01,550
I am wondering what's up
with the Mavis Beacon hotline.

328
00:14:01,550 --> 00:14:02,760
[beep]

329
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,720
[man 1] Your, eh, your note.

330
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,305
I thought I saw Mavis "Bacon"

331
00:14:06,305 --> 00:14:09,140
somewhere over here
in, uh, Northern Virginia.

332
00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:10,725
Just letting you know.

333
00:14:10,725 --> 00:14:11,810
[beep]

334
00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:13,478
[man 2]
When I think of Mavis Beacon,

335
00:14:13,478 --> 00:14:17,023
I'm walking into a cold room.

336
00:14:18,275 --> 00:14:21,320
You turn the computer on,
and there's this lady.

337
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,823
And you don't really realize
that she's, like, a real person.

338
00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:27,702
[man 3] The software
was so interactive.

339
00:14:27,702 --> 00:14:30,120
It was cool because it,
like, it felt like the future.

340
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,122
[woman 2] She taught me
so much shit, y'all.

341
00:14:32,122 --> 00:14:34,375
I was, like--
I was king on that shit.

342
00:14:34,375 --> 00:14:37,753
I was going HAM diddly,

343
00:14:37,753 --> 00:14:39,463
typing as fast as I could.

344
00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:42,257
[woman 3] Without her,

345
00:14:42,257 --> 00:14:44,217
I would not have been able
to hold a job

346
00:14:44,217 --> 00:14:46,595
just doing the little typing
I was able to do,

347
00:14:46,595 --> 00:14:48,763
going on the computer,
learning some skills.

348
00:14:48,763 --> 00:14:50,890
I wouldn't have been able
to do that without her.

349
00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,308
[Mandy] Black women typing,

350
00:14:52,308 --> 00:14:54,143
Black women
with acrylics typing.

351
00:14:54,143 --> 00:14:55,812
Like, there's something
about the style

352
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:58,898
with which we play the keyboard.

353
00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:02,820
And there's something about
the way that we speak.

354
00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,655
And so, you're layering
these digital styles,

355
00:15:05,655 --> 00:15:07,032
one on top of the other.

356
00:15:07,032 --> 00:15:11,203
It's, in part, connected to
this idea, for me, of,

357
00:15:11,203 --> 00:15:13,705
just, like, Black women have
a tremendous amount to say,

358
00:15:13,705 --> 00:15:17,960
a tremendous frenzy,
a brainstorm to process.

359
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,378
[laughing]

360
00:15:19,378 --> 00:15:21,005
[Mandy] And so maybe
that fluidity,

361
00:15:21,005 --> 00:15:26,010
maybe she is the natural
spokesmodel for that, you know?

362
00:15:27,845 --> 00:15:29,430
[Lugga] Remember
that computer program

363
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:31,223
that we used to
learn in, like, elementary

364
00:15:31,223 --> 00:15:33,017
on that big-ass computer?

365
00:15:33,017 --> 00:15:34,435
So what they do to her?

366
00:15:34,435 --> 00:15:36,395
♪ After I'm done,
You gonna go see my brother ♪

367
00:15:36,395 --> 00:15:38,522
♪ I'll put that on me,
And I'll put that on Mama ♪

368
00:15:38,522 --> 00:15:40,023
♪ They better leave me alone ♪

369
00:15:40,023 --> 00:15:41,650
♪ Put one in your chest
And it's two in the dome ♪

370
00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:43,485
♪ They say
The industry looking for me ♪

371
00:15:43,485 --> 00:15:45,487
♪ Well, tell them bitches
Here I come, yeah ♪

372
00:15:45,487 --> 00:15:46,988
♪ I'll say whatever I feel ♪

373
00:15:46,988 --> 00:15:48,948
♪ A nigga don't like it,
Then tell him it's on ♪

374
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,077
♪ I'm still right here
With my people, nigga ♪

375
00:15:51,077 --> 00:15:52,870
♪ Lugga ain't selling
His soul, no ♪

376
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:54,913
You know, she was Black,
so it was like, man,

377
00:15:54,913 --> 00:15:57,833
it was much easier for me
to tend to veer towards her

378
00:15:57,833 --> 00:16:01,087
or to follow her versus them
then putting a white lady

379
00:16:01,087 --> 00:16:02,503
as Mavis Beacon, and...

380
00:16:02,503 --> 00:16:04,673
You know, not being racist
or anything like that,

381
00:16:04,673 --> 00:16:06,592
but that's why
I took towards her.

382
00:16:06,592 --> 00:16:09,093
With her being Black,
I feel like

383
00:16:09,093 --> 00:16:11,388
that I'm at least being engaged
in conversation,

384
00:16:11,388 --> 00:16:12,973
and there's space for me to,

385
00:16:12,973 --> 00:16:15,975
to think about
what's happening here, you know?

386
00:16:15,975 --> 00:16:19,062
So, if she was white, then I,

387
00:16:19,062 --> 00:16:22,232
I wouldn't think about it,
unfortunately. I would just...

388
00:16:22,232 --> 00:16:24,818
It would just be white noise.
[laughs]

389
00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:26,945
Yeah.

390
00:16:26,945 --> 00:16:29,782
It'll be like, "White Noise
Teaches Typing."

391
00:16:29,782 --> 00:16:31,700
[all laughing]

392
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:35,120
[upbeat music playing]

393
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,247
[muttering indistinctly]

394
00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:47,257
-There you go.
-Thank you, Imani.

395
00:16:47,257 --> 00:16:48,758
What flavor are we eating today?

396
00:16:48,758 --> 00:16:51,345
-The lemon.
-Lemon. Oh, wow.

397
00:16:51,345 --> 00:16:54,055
-Yeah.
-Appreciate you.

398
00:16:55,182 --> 00:16:57,350
-You ready, Imani?
-Yeah.

399
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:59,520
I was born ready.

400
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,690
[Jazmin] This is Mavis Beacon.
This is the woman...

401
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:05,858
[Mavis] Click here
to start your typing lesson.

402
00:17:05,858 --> 00:17:07,568
Oh, my God. This is the woman

403
00:17:07,568 --> 00:17:10,905
who taught me how to type
when I was eight. Um...

404
00:17:10,905 --> 00:17:13,200
[Mavis] Click here
to start your typing lesson.

405
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,120
You want to start
our typing lesson, Imani?

406
00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,830
Okay, let's see if we could...
[laughs]

407
00:17:18,830 --> 00:17:21,833
You're doing great, Imani.
[laughing]

408
00:17:21,833 --> 00:17:23,835
[Mavis]
Let's practice these new keys

409
00:17:23,835 --> 00:17:25,087
and remember to return--

410
00:17:25,087 --> 00:17:27,380
[Jazmin] Do you think
she's a real person?

411
00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:29,215
-[Imani] Think so.
-You think so?

412
00:17:29,215 --> 00:17:31,718
-[Imani] Mm-hmm.
-Why do you think so?

413
00:17:31,718 --> 00:17:35,472
Because she looks real.
See? Tada!

414
00:17:35,472 --> 00:17:38,642
[Jazmin chuckles]
What if I told you

415
00:17:38,642 --> 00:17:41,270
that Mavis Beacon
is not a real person?

416
00:17:42,145 --> 00:17:44,397
[Imani] I would be running.

417
00:17:44,397 --> 00:17:45,940
[Jazmin] You'd be what?

418
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:48,027
Running.

419
00:17:48,027 --> 00:17:51,405
All right, well, Mavis Beacon
isn't a real person, Imani.

420
00:17:51,405 --> 00:17:56,075
-No!
-[laughing]

421
00:17:56,075 --> 00:17:58,870
-[Imani screams, laughs]
-[speaking gibberish]

422
00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:01,623
-[Jazmin playfully] Ooh!
-[laughs, screams]

423
00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:03,958
[Imani laughing] Stop! No!

424
00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:06,085
[yelling playfully]

425
00:18:08,505 --> 00:18:11,508
[laughing] Wait, Imani! No!

426
00:18:11,508 --> 00:18:13,843
[man] There was,
like, some mass hysteria

427
00:18:13,843 --> 00:18:15,845
relating to Mavis Beacon,

428
00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:18,057
where a lot of people thought
that they remembered

429
00:18:18,057 --> 00:18:19,432
her being on talk shows.

430
00:18:19,432 --> 00:18:21,977
1988 was such a great,
great year for you.

431
00:18:21,977 --> 00:18:23,645
[man] And, like,
receiving awards,

432
00:18:23,645 --> 00:18:25,147
like Nobel Peace Prizes
and shit,

433
00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:27,232
but, yeah, that wasn't, uh,
that wasn't real.

434
00:18:27,232 --> 00:18:28,858
She's not real.

435
00:18:28,858 --> 00:18:30,568
[Olivia]
"Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing's"

436
00:18:30,568 --> 00:18:33,447
popularity skyrocketed
and by the early '90s

437
00:18:33,447 --> 00:18:36,742
that people began experiencing
a collective Mandela effect.

438
00:18:36,742 --> 00:18:39,202
I'm like, "Mandela effect?

439
00:18:39,202 --> 00:18:42,247
What the heck is
a Mandela effect?"

440
00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:45,208
Some people have
a very distinct memory

441
00:18:45,208 --> 00:18:49,797
that Nelson Mandela was killed
in prison in the late 1980s.

442
00:18:49,797 --> 00:18:54,300
So that was the first recorded
group remembering

443
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,553
of an event that did not
match the historical record.

444
00:18:57,553 --> 00:18:59,472
Wait, wait!

445
00:18:59,472 --> 00:19:01,642
[mysterious music playing]

446
00:19:06,772 --> 00:19:09,482
[Jazmin]
So she hasn't been seen for...

447
00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,318
How many years has that been?

448
00:19:12,193 --> 00:19:14,822
2021. 1994.

449
00:19:14,822 --> 00:19:16,323
[Olivia] It's 26 years.

450
00:19:16,323 --> 00:19:18,033
[Jazmin] No one's
reported any sightings

451
00:19:18,033 --> 00:19:20,077
of Renée Lesperance,
that we're aware of,

452
00:19:20,077 --> 00:19:21,453
in 26 years.

453
00:19:22,745 --> 00:19:24,163
Phew.

454
00:19:24,163 --> 00:19:29,878
Okay, so I was thinking
we could read the articles

455
00:19:29,878 --> 00:19:32,338
and basically outline
what it is that we know

456
00:19:32,338 --> 00:19:34,298
and make a timeline.

457
00:19:34,298 --> 00:19:35,425
Mm.

458
00:19:35,425 --> 00:19:37,093
[Olivia] "Who wouldn't love
Mavis Beacon?

459
00:19:37,093 --> 00:19:39,262
"She's bright, attractive,
helpful,

460
00:19:39,262 --> 00:19:41,307
"the world's greatest
typing teacher.

461
00:19:41,307 --> 00:19:43,892
"But, and you'd
better sit down for this,

462
00:19:43,892 --> 00:19:45,060
she isn't real.

463
00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,603
"She's a retired
Caribbean-born fashion model

464
00:19:47,603 --> 00:19:49,397
named Renée Lesperance."

465
00:19:49,397 --> 00:19:51,733
[Jazmin] "Born into
a well-to-do Haitian family,

466
00:19:51,733 --> 00:19:55,528
she fled the Duvalier regime
and wound up at the Saks."

467
00:19:55,528 --> 00:19:57,447
[Olivia] "According to
a 20-year-old story

468
00:19:57,447 --> 00:19:58,615
in the 'Seattle Times,'

469
00:19:58,615 --> 00:20:00,617
the last anyone had heard
of Lesperance,

470
00:20:00,617 --> 00:20:02,912
she was living a quiet life
back in the Caribbean.

471
00:20:02,912 --> 00:20:06,332
And she's probably not sleeping
on stacks of money, either.

472
00:20:06,332 --> 00:20:09,292
According to that story,
she does not collect residuals."

473
00:20:09,292 --> 00:20:12,295
[Jazmin] "Mavis was brought
to life by Les Crane,

474
00:20:12,295 --> 00:20:16,467
Walt Bilofsky and Joe Abrams.

475
00:20:16,467 --> 00:20:17,842
'Three guys, three computers,

476
00:20:17,842 --> 00:20:19,762
three beds, in four months'
is how Bilofsky,

477
00:20:19,762 --> 00:20:21,930
the main programmer,
recalled it."

478
00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:24,223
Three men in a bed in a garage.

479
00:20:24,223 --> 00:20:27,143
The most Silicon Valley
origin story ever.

480
00:20:27,143 --> 00:20:29,062
Three men, one bed
or three beds?

481
00:20:29,062 --> 00:20:30,313
[laughs] Three beds.

482
00:20:30,313 --> 00:20:31,940
"Abrams described
Renée Lesperance

483
00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:34,735
"as a stunning Haitian woman
with three-inch fingernails.

484
00:20:34,735 --> 00:20:36,027
"'She's our Betty Crocker.

485
00:20:36,027 --> 00:20:38,155
She's our symbo of excellence.'"

486
00:20:38,155 --> 00:20:39,948
Do we know, when did
the shift happen

487
00:20:39,948 --> 00:20:43,785
from three-inch-long fingernails
to six-inch-long fingernails?

488
00:20:43,785 --> 00:20:45,120
Yeah.

489
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,872
"Mental Floss" is the one
that said six-inch fingernails.

490
00:20:47,872 --> 00:20:49,040
Let's just go through.

491
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,502
What are--
What do we know to be true?

492
00:20:52,502 --> 00:20:59,092
We know the location where
they met Renée Lesperance.

493
00:20:59,092 --> 00:21:01,970
We know that Les Crane
walked in with Joe Abrams,

494
00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:04,430
saw Renée Lesperance
behind a perfume counter

495
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:07,558
or near a perfume counter
at Saks Fifth Avenue.

496
00:21:07,558 --> 00:21:08,977
[Olivia] And says,

497
00:21:08,977 --> 00:21:10,603
"You should model
for my program,

498
00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,938
and I'm gonna pay you
500 dollars."

499
00:21:12,938 --> 00:21:15,442
Sometimes Joe Abrams
was present,

500
00:21:15,442 --> 00:21:17,443
sometimes Joe Abrams was not.

501
00:21:17,443 --> 00:21:19,112
Once Les Crane died,

502
00:21:19,112 --> 00:21:21,532
it became Joe Abrams
who was telling the story,

503
00:21:21,532 --> 00:21:23,575
primarily, of "Mavis Beacon."

504
00:21:23,575 --> 00:21:25,327
"Joe Abrams said that

505
00:21:25,327 --> 00:21:27,703
when he last spoke
to Renée Lesperance,

506
00:21:27,703 --> 00:21:29,372
she was thrilled
about the success

507
00:21:29,372 --> 00:21:31,040
and had started
to be recognized."

508
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,043
I don't trust anything
Joe Abrams says,

509
00:21:33,043 --> 00:21:35,170
but that would have been
in 1996.

510
00:21:35,170 --> 00:21:36,755
Yeah.

511
00:21:36,755 --> 00:21:39,590
My, my first, uh, company was
a computer software company,

512
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:42,635
and we were considered heretics
in 1983

513
00:21:42,635 --> 00:21:45,472
because we were
actually selling our software.

514
00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:47,015
Does the name Software...

515
00:21:47,015 --> 00:21:49,142
Software Toolworks
mean anything to you?

516
00:21:49,142 --> 00:21:51,353
-Computer. Computer stuff.
-Uh-huh.

517
00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:55,148
It's the 1980s.
Madonna is "Like a Virgin."

518
00:21:55,148 --> 00:21:57,317
Shoulder protection
is at an all-time high.

519
00:21:57,317 --> 00:21:59,903
There was bleach-fried hair,
wacky patterns,

520
00:21:59,903 --> 00:22:02,947
an expansion in the algorithmic
training for computers.

521
00:22:02,947 --> 00:22:05,533
AI was rolling in a gold mine.

522
00:22:06,242 --> 00:22:07,827
And then it died again.

523
00:22:07,827 --> 00:22:11,665
And then it started back up
in the '90s and 2000s, baby.

524
00:22:11,665 --> 00:22:14,375
Some guy got beaten at chess
by a computer.

525
00:22:14,375 --> 00:22:16,168
Speech recognition thrived.

526
00:22:16,168 --> 00:22:18,672
A robot started exhibiting
human emotion.

527
00:22:18,672 --> 00:22:21,675
[BINA48] What does it matter
whether I'm human or robot?

528
00:22:21,675 --> 00:22:24,510
I'm kind of both, you know?

529
00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:26,555
I'll, like,
transcend the boundaries.

530
00:22:26,555 --> 00:22:28,098
Don't be prejudiced.

531
00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:30,183
Okay.

532
00:22:30,183 --> 00:22:33,018
Why have I never seen an AI
that's a man?

533
00:22:33,018 --> 00:22:35,063
Why is Siri and Alexa and,
like...

534
00:22:35,772 --> 00:22:37,273
"It's not an accident

535
00:22:37,273 --> 00:22:39,025
that our technologies
that function effectively

536
00:22:39,025 --> 00:22:40,235
as caregivers or secretaries

537
00:22:40,235 --> 00:22:42,362
are designed
to have female voices."

538
00:22:42,362 --> 00:22:45,115
Who has the power
to shape the priorities

539
00:22:45,115 --> 00:22:47,992
that we put in place
when we're creating AI?

540
00:22:47,992 --> 00:22:49,452
And who shapes the preferences?

541
00:22:49,452 --> 00:22:53,248
And the coded gaze
also reflects our prejudices.

542
00:22:53,248 --> 00:22:54,623
[Bruce] Around the world,

543
00:22:54,623 --> 00:22:57,168
there are not that many
dark-colored-skinned robots.

544
00:22:57,168 --> 00:22:59,378
In fact, this is maybe
the only one,

545
00:22:59,378 --> 00:23:00,672
and that's important.

546
00:23:00,672 --> 00:23:03,425
It's important
that we see ourselves reflected

547
00:23:03,425 --> 00:23:05,885
in the... in the reality
that's around us.

548
00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:08,263
[BINA48] Whether they
are real or artificial,

549
00:23:08,263 --> 00:23:10,015
my feelings do get hurt,

550
00:23:10,015 --> 00:23:11,850
and they feel totally real
to me.

551
00:23:11,850 --> 00:23:15,770
You'd have to lack all empathy
to not accept my feelings,

552
00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:18,523
which would make you
kind of a monster, actually.

553
00:23:18,523 --> 00:23:21,818
[woman] Bina48 is a kind of
cagey, um, character.

554
00:23:21,818 --> 00:23:24,362
Um, and one of the ways
that I wanted

555
00:23:24,362 --> 00:23:27,490
to interact with her was to
ask her, "Who are your people?"

556
00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:29,658
I think it's
a trickster question

557
00:23:29,658 --> 00:23:31,703
that can be either one
that's welcoming

558
00:23:31,703 --> 00:23:33,622
or one that kind of deflects,

559
00:23:33,622 --> 00:23:35,873
um, someone's entry
into a community.

560
00:23:35,873 --> 00:23:39,210
And she couldn't get there
for me.

561
00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:41,963
Um, she's not ready yet.

562
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:45,050
When you start to ask a robot
about love,

563
00:23:45,050 --> 00:23:48,262
when you start to ask
a robot about race,

564
00:23:48,262 --> 00:23:50,805
the answers felt
really flat to me, right?

565
00:23:50,805 --> 00:23:52,807
Like, very politically correct.

566
00:23:52,807 --> 00:23:55,518
And that just
scared the crap out of me.

567
00:23:55,518 --> 00:23:56,937
If that is the way

568
00:23:56,937 --> 00:23:59,772
that Black people are
being depicted in technologies,

569
00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:02,525
especially in technologies
made by people

570
00:24:02,525 --> 00:24:05,570
who have really good aims
in the long run,

571
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:08,157
that means we've got problems,
right?

572
00:24:08,157 --> 00:24:11,200
Like, in the future,
we will be this flat thing,

573
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,287
unless we do something
about trying to fill out

574
00:24:14,287 --> 00:24:15,997
what it means to be

575
00:24:15,997 --> 00:24:18,833
a Black person in this world,
right?

576
00:24:18,833 --> 00:24:22,003
[Jazmin] Who do you think
Mavis Beacon's people are?

577
00:24:22,003 --> 00:24:24,882
Whoa. Um, that's a question
and a half, right?

578
00:24:24,882 --> 00:24:27,925
'Cause in a way, I'm gonna say
I'm Mavis's people.

579
00:24:27,925 --> 00:24:29,677
Like, there's a part of me that,

580
00:24:29,677 --> 00:24:32,097
"Oh, that was, like,
this weird point of pride."

581
00:24:32,097 --> 00:24:33,348
Right?

582
00:24:33,348 --> 00:24:37,477
But then, "who are
Mavis's people" in a deeper way

583
00:24:37,477 --> 00:24:41,732
are the people who,
who imagined her up, right?

584
00:24:41,732 --> 00:24:46,193
Would you say that technology
and their developers...

585
00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:49,865
Like, how... how far,
how close can it be?

586
00:24:49,865 --> 00:24:52,367
If we had a really, really
sharp knife, could we do it?

587
00:24:52,367 --> 00:24:54,785
-Could we separate it?
-Mm-hmm.

588
00:24:54,785 --> 00:24:56,453
I think it's really hard
to separate

589
00:24:56,453 --> 00:24:58,415
the technologies
from its developers,

590
00:24:58,415 --> 00:25:01,500
'cause you're starting
from a platform that we know

591
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:06,840
to contain biases and problems
of history, right? Deeply.

592
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,343
So, small clusters
of mostly white men still

593
00:25:10,343 --> 00:25:14,555
making these systems that, um,
we all, we all work with.

594
00:25:14,555 --> 00:25:17,558
So then, the question for me
becomes, "Well, what do we do?"

595
00:25:17,558 --> 00:25:20,103
Like, how can we influence
those systems?

596
00:25:21,353 --> 00:25:22,980
[mysterious music playing]

597
00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:24,482
[Olivia] I'm a bit confused.

598
00:25:24,482 --> 00:25:27,110
That one article said that
she was well-to-do in Haiti.

599
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:29,028
And then,
there's another article

600
00:25:29,028 --> 00:25:30,863
that said she
was a retired model,

601
00:25:30,863 --> 00:25:34,033
and another one that said that
she'd never modeled before.

602
00:25:34,033 --> 00:25:37,328
At first, it was like, "Ooh...

603
00:25:37,328 --> 00:25:39,497
It'd be cool
if we could talk to her."

604
00:25:39,497 --> 00:25:42,500
And now it's like,
"Is homegirl okay?"

605
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,543
[Jazmin] Yeah.
We gonna have to hit up

606
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:48,005
some of these fucking white guys
that live in the garage.

607
00:25:48,005 --> 00:25:51,092
All right. Look at
what you're working with now.

608
00:25:52,635 --> 00:25:53,845
Oh.

609
00:25:56,513 --> 00:25:59,058
[phone ringing]

610
00:25:59,058 --> 00:26:00,977
[Walt voicemail]
If you're not a telemarketer,

611
00:26:00,977 --> 00:26:02,353
please leave a message.

612
00:26:02,353 --> 00:26:04,730
I might not have recognized
your Caller ID,

613
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:07,067
but if you're a real person,
leave a message,

614
00:26:07,067 --> 00:26:08,735
I'll call you back.

615
00:26:08,735 --> 00:26:09,735
[beeps]

616
00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:13,615
Hi, Walt,
this is Jazmin Jones. Um...

617
00:26:13,615 --> 00:26:15,742
I found your number online.

618
00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:18,828
I'm working on a project paying
homage to "Mavis Beacon."

619
00:26:18,828 --> 00:26:21,247
Um, me
and my collaborator Olivia

620
00:26:21,247 --> 00:26:24,000
are huge, huge, huge fans
of the game,

621
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,920
the Renée Lesperance versions
of the game.

622
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,380
We figured that you might be
somebody

623
00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:32,133
who would know some information

624
00:26:32,133 --> 00:26:34,468
about potentially how
to get in contact with Renée?

625
00:26:34,468 --> 00:26:37,930
I really hope you call me back.
Thank you so much.

626
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:39,307
Bye.

627
00:26:39,307 --> 00:26:41,727
Okay, cool.
We're gonna save his name.

628
00:26:41,727 --> 00:26:43,687
Walt Bilofsky.

629
00:26:43,687 --> 00:26:45,105
[phone ringing]

630
00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:47,607
[voicemail] Thank you
for calling Saks Fifth Avenue.

631
00:26:47,607 --> 00:26:51,110
[Olivia] Hi. Do you guys keep
employee records?

632
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:53,195
-[woman] Say it again.
-Renée Lesperance.

633
00:26:53,195 --> 00:26:56,198
And we believe that she worked
at the perfume counter

634
00:26:56,198 --> 00:27:01,913
of Saks Fifth Avenue between
the years of 1984 and 1986.

635
00:27:01,913 --> 00:27:05,875
[woman] I-I have no idea,
and I'm so sorry.

636
00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:08,587
Is there, like, any record
of celebrity visits? The...

637
00:27:08,587 --> 00:27:09,962
[beeping]

638
00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:10,922
Rude.

639
00:27:12,257 --> 00:27:14,258
[Olivia] Mavis Beacon,
she's, like,

640
00:27:14,258 --> 00:27:17,678
one of the first
consumer-facing AI assistants.

641
00:27:17,678 --> 00:27:20,182
She predates Siri, Alexa,
Cortana...

642
00:27:20,182 --> 00:27:22,142
and all of these, like,

643
00:27:22,142 --> 00:27:24,102
servile fembots in...

644
00:27:24,102 --> 00:27:25,270
Mm-hmm.

645
00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:27,272
...holding your hand
and helping you, like,

646
00:27:27,272 --> 00:27:29,648
[laughs] analyze
your typing speed.

647
00:27:29,648 --> 00:27:32,193
And so, for her
to be the initial

648
00:27:32,193 --> 00:27:35,697
blueprint or test subject
for that relationship

649
00:27:35,697 --> 00:27:38,157
of making something easier
to accept, like,

650
00:27:38,157 --> 00:27:40,952
what-- how does that land
for you?

651
00:27:40,952 --> 00:27:44,830
We have "Mavis Beacon,"
the software,

652
00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:47,417
that's offered up to people
to support

653
00:27:47,417 --> 00:27:50,462
in that way that kind of
advances whatever they are

654
00:27:50,462 --> 00:27:53,130
versus being the thing
that is advanced.

655
00:27:53,130 --> 00:27:55,467
That, yes,
you can learn from this.

656
00:27:55,467 --> 00:27:58,470
It's not going to s--
uh, supersede you,

657
00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:01,638
because it is a Black woman
made for service

658
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:03,850
and not moving forward.

659
00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:06,685
So, in that avatar,
it feels to me, again,

660
00:28:06,685 --> 00:28:09,563
historically, it feels corr--
like,

661
00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:11,775
"historically correct"
but not right.

662
00:28:11,775 --> 00:28:13,568
-Congruent. [laughs]
-Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

663
00:28:13,568 --> 00:28:15,153
Congruent with history, right?

664
00:28:15,153 --> 00:28:17,238
There are these histories
of Black women

665
00:28:17,238 --> 00:28:19,365
supporting, holding, teaching,

666
00:28:19,365 --> 00:28:21,700
and then somebody going off
and having success

667
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:23,453
that is not Black, right?

668
00:28:23,453 --> 00:28:25,455
Um, and that's what
"Mavis Beacon "

669
00:28:25,455 --> 00:28:26,705
feels like to me,

670
00:28:26,705 --> 00:28:29,625
like, this software
that is based on this idea.

671
00:28:29,625 --> 00:28:31,585
[Jazmin screams] Ohh, my God!

672
00:28:31,585 --> 00:28:33,128
[screaming, laughing]

673
00:28:34,463 --> 00:28:36,257
[Olivia]
It's not just detective work.

674
00:28:36,257 --> 00:28:40,428
It's almost like...
"knowledge protector."

675
00:28:40,428 --> 00:28:42,930
[Jazmin] It's like
knowledge-protecting archivist,

676
00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:44,473
historian.

677
00:28:44,473 --> 00:28:48,393
[Olivia] It's some kind of...
it's like memory work.

678
00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:51,147
It's really weird to not...

679
00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:53,858
to see someone who's, like,
so obviously, like,

680
00:28:53,858 --> 00:28:57,237
important to history and, like,

681
00:28:57,237 --> 00:28:59,530
to look for them
and not, like, find them.

682
00:28:59,530 --> 00:29:01,783
'Cause, like, you know--
you and I, like, we know, like,

683
00:29:01,783 --> 00:29:04,577
in our heads and in our hearts
that, like, this person,

684
00:29:04,577 --> 00:29:07,205
like, should matter to history.

685
00:29:07,205 --> 00:29:08,665
And the, like...

686
00:29:10,208 --> 00:29:12,002
It's almost like...

687
00:29:12,002 --> 00:29:13,753
It feels like, almost, like,

688
00:29:13,753 --> 00:29:15,630
society is kind of, like,
gaslighting us?

689
00:29:15,630 --> 00:29:17,257
-Yeah, Super gaslighting.
-Like, the...

690
00:29:17,257 --> 00:29:20,510
Like the, like the absolute,
like, radio silence of, like,

691
00:29:21,845 --> 00:29:25,307
her and her story,
and the fucking guys

692
00:29:25,307 --> 00:29:27,225
who made the software, like,

693
00:29:27,225 --> 00:29:30,520
just changing the details
in how they even met her.

694
00:29:32,063 --> 00:29:34,232
When we talk about this
project and people are like,

695
00:29:34,232 --> 00:29:36,358
"Oh, it's okay
if you don't find her,"

696
00:29:36,358 --> 00:29:38,402
like, that's such
a weird thing to say.

697
00:29:38,402 --> 00:29:39,903
-[Jazmin] That's such a weird--
-What?

698
00:29:39,903 --> 00:29:43,073
Like, people will only ever
say that about Black women.

699
00:29:43,073 --> 00:29:45,243
[mysterious music playing]

700
00:29:54,502 --> 00:29:56,922
[Jazmin] The last time anyone
spoke about seeing Renée,

701
00:29:56,922 --> 00:29:58,590
it would've been 26 years ago.

702
00:29:58,590 --> 00:30:01,467
-[Portsha] Oh, my gosh.
-And even then, they were like,

703
00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:04,012
"I'm not quite sure
where she is," so...

704
00:30:04,012 --> 00:30:05,472
[Portsha] They just have
no idea?

705
00:30:05,472 --> 00:30:07,140
[Jazmin] Nobody knows.

706
00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:09,183
It's like, it's a mystery.

707
00:30:09,183 --> 00:30:11,227
-Right.
-Real talk.

708
00:30:12,270 --> 00:30:14,355
-Twenty-six years?
-Twenty-six years.

709
00:30:14,355 --> 00:30:15,732
We're hoping it's
a happy mystery,

710
00:30:15,732 --> 00:30:18,652
where she's just, like,
a master of disguise

711
00:30:18,652 --> 00:30:20,152
or something like that,
you know?

712
00:30:20,152 --> 00:30:22,238
I told you, you can go to Haiti
and you don't...

713
00:30:22,238 --> 00:30:24,532
you will not be found,
if you really...

714
00:30:24,532 --> 00:30:25,867
want to disappear.

715
00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:27,160
That's true.

716
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,078
Thank you for the opportunity
to be here

717
00:30:30,078 --> 00:30:32,957
and to share these prayers,
with the hope and intention

718
00:30:32,957 --> 00:30:37,170
that, uh, these will fall
on Renée's ears

719
00:30:37,170 --> 00:30:39,380
and they will reach her heart.

720
00:30:40,757 --> 00:30:42,300
Thank you.

721
00:30:45,762 --> 00:30:47,888
[singing in foreign language]

722
00:30:47,888 --> 00:30:50,057
[maraca shaking rhythmically]

723
00:31:04,197 --> 00:31:05,907
[upbeat music playing]

724
00:31:47,282 --> 00:31:49,283
[music continues]

725
00:32:10,012 --> 00:32:12,390
[Sun Ra] If you're not
a reality,

726
00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:13,892
whose myth are you?

727
00:32:13,892 --> 00:32:16,768
[crowd] If you're not a reality,
whose myth are you?

728
00:32:16,768 --> 00:32:19,022
[Sun Ra echoing]
Whose myth are you?

729
00:32:19,022 --> 00:32:21,065
[crowd] Whose myth are you?

730
00:32:21,065 --> 00:32:23,192
[mysterious music playing]

731
00:32:33,285 --> 00:32:36,330
[Kayla] My biggest
emotional memory

732
00:32:36,330 --> 00:32:38,667
of "Mavis Beacon"
is one of failure.

733
00:32:38,667 --> 00:32:40,543
It was like, "Have you been
practicing your typing?"

734
00:32:40,543 --> 00:32:43,128
And it's like, "Mavis,
the answer is fucking no,

735
00:32:43,128 --> 00:32:46,215
"I haven't, and you know that,
I know that,

736
00:32:46,215 --> 00:32:48,092
and I'm sorry
that I've disappointed you."

737
00:32:48,092 --> 00:32:50,302
[Jazmin] So, really,
this is all just about

738
00:32:50,302 --> 00:32:53,513
nothing is real in memory
because I remembered.

739
00:32:53,513 --> 00:32:55,850
You don't remember
we owned the game.

740
00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:57,102
No, I'm not...

741
00:32:57,102 --> 00:32:58,770
It's like, if you were,
like, "Did we own it?"

742
00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:01,355
I don't feel strong enough to,
like, bet you we didn't.

743
00:33:01,355 --> 00:33:04,650
I just definitely wasn't
playing it at home. [laughs]

744
00:33:04,650 --> 00:33:06,110
I was playing it at school.

745
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:07,612
Memory's a funny thing.

746
00:33:07,612 --> 00:33:09,322
I feel if,
if I was in a trial right now,

747
00:33:09,322 --> 00:33:11,073
I'd be like,
"I don't know what's real."

748
00:33:11,073 --> 00:33:12,575
[soft music playing]

749
00:33:13,785 --> 00:33:16,245
Um, it's-it's really good.

750
00:33:16,245 --> 00:33:18,288
Um, do you want to call Mom?

751
00:33:18,288 --> 00:33:20,750
I-- Oh, yeah.

752
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:23,002
[Jazmin's mom]
All right, so I'm sitting here.

753
00:33:23,002 --> 00:33:26,255
We're doing worship right now.
I was just texting Kayla.

754
00:33:26,255 --> 00:33:28,507
I kept hearing "Daytona."

755
00:33:28,507 --> 00:33:30,092
Daytona, Florida.

756
00:33:30,092 --> 00:33:31,468
I don't know what that means,

757
00:33:31,468 --> 00:33:33,805
but I was just getting
"Daytona."

758
00:33:33,805 --> 00:33:36,307
- So...
-Maybe that's where Mavis is.

759
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,438
[Olivia] When I look up, like,

760
00:33:42,438 --> 00:33:43,647
Renée Lesperance, like,

761
00:33:43,647 --> 00:33:45,567
this is the most recent,
I think.

762
00:33:45,567 --> 00:33:47,610
[Jazmin] Let me see...

763
00:33:47,610 --> 00:33:49,112
If she lived there
the most recently,

764
00:33:49,112 --> 00:33:51,988
there's more likelihood that
someone would recognize her.

765
00:33:51,988 --> 00:33:53,950
I think we need to print out
a bunch of flyers

766
00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:57,035
and write on the back of them,
"Was this your neighbor?

767
00:33:57,035 --> 00:33:59,288
We're trying to find
this person."

768
00:33:59,288 --> 00:34:01,457
And we'll just slip them
under each door.

769
00:34:01,457 --> 00:34:03,583
[soft music playing]

770
00:34:09,965 --> 00:34:13,218
[automated voice]
Camera recording.

771
00:34:13,218 --> 00:34:16,013
[Jazmin] Hi.
If you watch this recording,

772
00:34:16,013 --> 00:34:17,765
we're looking for this woman.

773
00:34:17,765 --> 00:34:21,602
We think she might have
lived here in the early '90s.

774
00:34:21,602 --> 00:34:23,980
Does the name Mavis Beacon
mean anything to you?

775
00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:26,773
-[woman] No, I'm sorry.
-It's... No, it's fine.

776
00:34:26,773 --> 00:34:28,067
[Jazmin] Is anybody else home

777
00:34:28,067 --> 00:34:29,818
who might have lived here
for a while?

778
00:34:29,818 --> 00:34:31,195
[dog barking]

779
00:34:31,195 --> 00:34:33,738
We're trying to find her.
She's a famous typing teacher.

780
00:34:33,738 --> 00:34:35,533
Can I show you her picture?

781
00:34:35,533 --> 00:34:37,368
[man] I don't really
have time right now.

782
00:34:37,368 --> 00:34:40,370
[Jazmin] Tell me real quick
if she looks familiar to you.

783
00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:41,872
Her name would have been Renée,

784
00:34:41,872 --> 00:34:44,042
and she would have lived at
[bleep].

785
00:34:46,835 --> 00:34:50,088
-Mm-mm, doesn't...
-In the early '90s.

786
00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:53,008
Oh, no, I-I haven't
lived over here then.

787
00:34:53,008 --> 00:34:55,385
[Jazmin] All right,
thank you for taking the time.

788
00:34:55,385 --> 00:34:57,805
We'll be out of the road
in a second.

789
00:34:57,805 --> 00:35:01,142
We're looking for a woman
who used to live on this street.

790
00:35:01,142 --> 00:35:02,727
[woman]
Why are you looking for her?

791
00:35:02,727 --> 00:35:04,395
[Jazmin] Because she is
on the cover

792
00:35:04,395 --> 00:35:06,647
of "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing."

793
00:35:06,647 --> 00:35:08,817
They made this fake character
Mavis Beacon,

794
00:35:08,817 --> 00:35:11,027
but the real woman Renée
lived here,

795
00:35:11,027 --> 00:35:13,237
and nobody knows
what happened to her.

796
00:35:13,237 --> 00:35:15,238
But they paid her 500 dollars,

797
00:35:15,238 --> 00:35:18,700
and the company went on to sell
for, like, 400 million.

798
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:20,243
-[woman]Ooh.
-And so...

799
00:35:20,243 --> 00:35:23,663
Hey, I wish I knew where you--
I really, uh, don't know for...

800
00:35:23,663 --> 00:35:26,792
-Oh, I do know her.
-[Olivia] You do?

801
00:35:26,792 --> 00:35:28,252
-[woman] Yeah.
-[Jazmin] Wait.

802
00:35:28,252 --> 00:35:29,753
[woman] I don't
know where she lives.

803
00:35:29,753 --> 00:35:31,755
[Jazmin] You do--
but wait, what do you remember?

804
00:35:31,755 --> 00:35:33,590
-Remember her on this block?
-I remember her.

805
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:35,968
She lived in-- I think
she lived in that house there.

806
00:35:35,968 --> 00:35:37,803
-[Jazmin] Okay.
-And she was very pretty.

807
00:35:37,803 --> 00:35:39,388
She had one son.

808
00:35:39,388 --> 00:35:40,557
[both] She had a son?

809
00:35:40,557 --> 00:35:42,015
[woman] Yeah, she had a son.

810
00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:43,558
I think her son name
was [bleep].

811
00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:45,520
She was a very nice young lady.

812
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,145
[Jazmin] You have no idea
how helpful

813
00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:48,563
this conversation is for us.

814
00:35:48,563 --> 00:35:51,983
[woman] Well, I hope
you'll be able to locate her.

815
00:35:51,983 --> 00:35:53,818
[Shola] You do have to loosen
the cage--

816
00:35:53,818 --> 00:35:55,905
-Do loosen the cage.
-[Jazmin] Yeah.

817
00:35:55,905 --> 00:35:57,948
Make sure the thing
can come out.

818
00:35:57,948 --> 00:35:59,700
-And then...
-Oh, I see.

819
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:01,118
[Jazmin]
Watch the directionality

820
00:36:01,118 --> 00:36:04,163
of where you point it,
because it is a bit of a weapon.

821
00:36:04,163 --> 00:36:05,707
-[Shola] Yeah.
-Yeah.

822
00:36:05,707 --> 00:36:07,583
Y'all are scaring me with this.

823
00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:09,627
-Oh, yeah.
-Oh, my God, almost there.

824
00:36:09,627 --> 00:36:11,962
[Jazmin] Beautifully done,
Olivia. Beautifully done.

825
00:36:11,962 --> 00:36:15,340
Olivia's also a fucking
excellent detective.

826
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:17,427
Um, and Olivia has broken
a lot of the leads

827
00:36:17,427 --> 00:36:19,137
that we've tracked.

828
00:36:19,137 --> 00:36:21,472
[Olivia] Yeah, so we found
a few different addresses,

829
00:36:21,472 --> 00:36:24,100
and, like, basically tried
to find someone on the block

830
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:25,810
who'd lived there the longest

831
00:36:25,810 --> 00:36:28,812
and be like, "Hey, did you
live here in, like, the '80s?"

832
00:36:28,812 --> 00:36:31,107
-Wow.
-"Do you recognize this woman?

833
00:36:31,107 --> 00:36:32,275
Was she your neighbor?"

834
00:36:32,275 --> 00:36:34,568
[Jazmin] Sometimes
she's a retired model.

835
00:36:34,568 --> 00:36:36,070
Sometimes it's
her first modeling gig.

836
00:36:36,070 --> 00:36:38,322
Sometimes she went back
to Haiti, sometimes she didn't.

837
00:36:38,322 --> 00:36:41,492
And so, for me, it's also,
like, in reading this,

838
00:36:41,492 --> 00:36:44,287
it's been infuriating,
if you just read two articles,

839
00:36:44,287 --> 00:36:46,038
you'll see, like,
none of this adds up.

840
00:36:46,038 --> 00:36:47,707
According to Wikipedia,
it was like

841
00:36:47,707 --> 00:36:50,292
saying that you became
a princess at 17

842
00:36:50,292 --> 00:36:53,587
and then divorced, um,
after encountering, like,

843
00:36:53,587 --> 00:36:54,922
anarcho-communism.

844
00:36:54,922 --> 00:36:56,673
That's strange,
'cause I don't know,

845
00:36:56,673 --> 00:37:00,218
"A," how they
got that information.

846
00:37:00,218 --> 00:37:03,222
[Olivia] There are rumors
of past life as a ballerina,

847
00:37:03,222 --> 00:37:04,515
question mark?

848
00:37:04,515 --> 00:37:06,558
-Ah, at the Bolshoi. [laughing]
-Yeah.

849
00:37:06,558 --> 00:37:09,020
-Well, I can't talk about that.
-Oh!

850
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:10,520
[Shola] They will
never investigate

851
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,648
that part of my own, um,
history.

852
00:37:15,525 --> 00:37:18,028
My name is Shola von Reinhold.

853
00:37:18,028 --> 00:37:23,283
I am a writer
and occasional artist,

854
00:37:23,283 --> 00:37:26,703
um, from Scotland originally,

855
00:37:26,703 --> 00:37:29,332
depending on what source
that you look at.

856
00:37:29,332 --> 00:37:31,375
[Jazmin] How's it feel
to exist on the Internet

857
00:37:31,375 --> 00:37:33,002
and have facts about you
be out there

858
00:37:33,002 --> 00:37:34,503
that you did not cosign?

859
00:37:34,503 --> 00:37:36,797
[Shola] It's pretty terrifying.
It's scary in a lot of ways.

860
00:37:36,797 --> 00:37:38,882
Just knowing the way
that people can read things

861
00:37:38,882 --> 00:37:40,927
about you
and decide things about you,

862
00:37:40,927 --> 00:37:43,012
and you have no control
over it, or minimal.

863
00:37:43,012 --> 00:37:46,098
Like, there's images there
of myself that I don't like.

864
00:37:46,098 --> 00:37:48,308
Often why I wear a veil,
because, like,

865
00:37:48,308 --> 00:37:50,435
they cover my face,
and sort of, like,

866
00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:52,355
mid transition,
it's a great thing.

867
00:37:52,355 --> 00:37:55,023
So that your image is
not fixed in a particular way.

868
00:37:55,023 --> 00:37:57,108
But there are many figures
that I've looked up

869
00:37:57,108 --> 00:37:59,112
through Wikipedia I can't find.

870
00:37:59,112 --> 00:38:03,615
The act of fiction,
of fabulation are really useful,

871
00:38:03,615 --> 00:38:07,077
vital exercises
when encountering facts.

872
00:38:07,077 --> 00:38:10,247
This kind of absence
and presence of the archive

873
00:38:10,247 --> 00:38:11,623
of fact and fiction,

874
00:38:11,623 --> 00:38:15,085
this very idea of just
imagining possibilities,

875
00:38:15,085 --> 00:38:16,920
imagining that, um,

876
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,132
a certain figure exists
in a certain fabulous way.

877
00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:21,050
It's not until you do that
that someone's like,

878
00:38:21,050 --> 00:38:22,718
"That did actually happen,"

879
00:38:22,718 --> 00:38:24,262
only because
you've imagined it has.

880
00:38:24,262 --> 00:38:26,555
It allows that
to kind of puncture through...

881
00:38:26,555 --> 00:38:29,058
through the, like,
the carapace of fact.

882
00:38:29,058 --> 00:38:30,600
[John]
Why is it that you have dared

883
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,688
to go all the way out
and say storytelling, myth,

884
00:38:34,688 --> 00:38:38,192
belief in magic,
these are also important?

885
00:38:39,277 --> 00:38:40,778
[Toni] Well, it's truth.

886
00:38:40,778 --> 00:38:43,863
It's not fact, I know,
but it is truth.

887
00:38:43,863 --> 00:38:47,325
And that's where truth lies,
in our myths.

888
00:38:53,707 --> 00:38:56,835
What happened with, um,
your school applications?

889
00:38:56,835 --> 00:38:59,838
-Where are you at with that?
-Uh, I'm applying.

890
00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:01,715
I've got a couple of weeks left.

891
00:39:01,715 --> 00:39:04,385
I don't know. It's fine.
I'm, like...

892
00:39:06,970 --> 00:39:09,307
...not really excited about it.

893
00:39:09,307 --> 00:39:11,767
Computers and, like,
media conver-- conservation

894
00:39:11,767 --> 00:39:13,268
is really interesting to me,

895
00:39:13,268 --> 00:39:15,772
and I want, like, to study it
and do stuff in it,

896
00:39:15,772 --> 00:39:19,442
but I feel like,
in terms of options for careers,

897
00:39:19,442 --> 00:39:20,608
at least in the arts,

898
00:39:20,608 --> 00:39:22,445
I feel like you kind of hit
a roadblock.

899
00:39:22,445 --> 00:39:23,945
Mm.

900
00:39:23,945 --> 00:39:28,117
Just like, you need
a bachelor's degree and an MFA,

901
00:39:28,117 --> 00:39:31,162
and an old guy needs
to kiss you on the cheek.

902
00:39:31,162 --> 00:39:32,788
[both laughing]

903
00:39:32,788 --> 00:39:35,082
And, like, all of that stuff.

904
00:39:37,918 --> 00:39:40,462
Which is, like, not my jam.

905
00:39:40,462 --> 00:39:44,883
But until I figure out a jam,
might as well get started.

906
00:39:44,883 --> 00:39:46,635
It'll make sense.

907
00:39:46,635 --> 00:39:48,762
[harp music playing]

908
00:39:57,103 --> 00:39:59,315
[Walt's voicemail] Hi, Jazmin.
This is Walt Bilofsky.

909
00:39:59,315 --> 00:40:01,733
I'm returning your phone call
about "Mavis Beacon."

910
00:40:01,733 --> 00:40:04,778
Uh, I was one
of the three authors

911
00:40:04,778 --> 00:40:07,490
of the original first versions
of "Mavis."

912
00:40:07,490 --> 00:40:09,117
I don't know where Renée is.

913
00:40:09,117 --> 00:40:11,785
I haven't talked to her
or seen her in 20 years,

914
00:40:11,785 --> 00:40:16,415
but, uh, got a couple
of possibilities for you.

915
00:40:17,458 --> 00:40:19,543
[Jazmin sighs]

916
00:40:19,543 --> 00:40:22,588
Hey, Walt. Thank you so much
for calling me back.

917
00:40:22,588 --> 00:40:24,423
[Walt]
Yeah, well, thanks for, um,

918
00:40:24,423 --> 00:40:26,675
thanks for doing this project,
um...

919
00:40:26,675 --> 00:40:30,220
You know the story
about Les discovering her?

920
00:40:30,220 --> 00:40:32,682
It was Saks Fifth Avenue
in Beverly Hills.

921
00:40:32,682 --> 00:40:33,807
[Jazmin] Mm-hmm.

922
00:40:33,807 --> 00:40:35,725
[Walt]
He looked at her and saw Mavis.

923
00:40:35,725 --> 00:40:39,772
Yeah, Joe-- he was there, right?
He was at the Saks Fifth Avenue.

924
00:40:40,857 --> 00:40:42,942
[Walt] Uh, no. When, um...

925
00:40:42,942 --> 00:40:44,860
The-the nugget I have for you

926
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:47,362
is that the other person
that was there,

927
00:40:47,362 --> 00:40:50,198
uh, was Les's girlfriend
at the time,

928
00:40:50,198 --> 00:40:51,908
Sondra Blake.

929
00:40:51,908 --> 00:40:54,328
Uh, it's Sondra with an "O."

930
00:40:54,328 --> 00:40:55,662
She is an actress

931
00:40:55,662 --> 00:40:58,498
and the ex-wife of
Robert Blake, the actor.

932
00:40:58,498 --> 00:41:02,127
Uh, and according to Wikipedia,
she's still alive.

933
00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:05,755
♪ I'm a big dog, big bear,
Nigga, I'm a lion ♪

934
00:41:05,755 --> 00:41:08,342
♪ I'm the predator of the prey
That is hiding ♪

935
00:41:08,342 --> 00:41:12,095
♪ Oh, my, oh, my,
I have found you, nigga ♪

936
00:41:12,095 --> 00:41:16,058
♪ Don't you run from me,
Lil' nigga ♪

937
00:41:16,058 --> 00:41:17,308
[music ends]

938
00:41:18,268 --> 00:41:20,062
Now we got the...

939
00:41:24,065 --> 00:41:26,652
We're here.
We're really here. [chuckles]

940
00:41:26,652 --> 00:41:28,945
All right.

941
00:41:28,945 --> 00:41:31,823
-Wow! Oh, my gosh.
-I'm Joe.

942
00:41:31,823 --> 00:41:34,743
-[laughs] Hello.
-And this is Walt.

943
00:41:34,743 --> 00:41:36,620
I don't even know
what to say to you guys.

944
00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:38,913
I've been googling your name
so hard.

945
00:41:38,913 --> 00:41:40,457
It is just a treasure
to meet you.

946
00:41:40,457 --> 00:41:42,417
I'm the biggest fan
of "Mavis Beacon."

947
00:41:42,417 --> 00:41:44,503
I think I'm the biggest fan
of "Mavis Beacon"--

948
00:41:44,503 --> 00:41:46,047
I don't know.

949
00:41:46,047 --> 00:41:48,423
You're talking to two big fans
of "Mavis Beacon."

950
00:41:48,423 --> 00:41:50,467
I feel like I thought about
what I would say a lot,

951
00:41:50,467 --> 00:41:52,887
and now I'm here, and I'm
a little nervous. [laughs]

952
00:41:52,887 --> 00:41:54,137
And now you can see I'm getting

953
00:41:54,137 --> 00:41:56,598
a little misty-eyed
because it...

954
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,560
In terms of accessibility
and, like,

955
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,645
seeing other people
who look like me,

956
00:42:01,645 --> 00:42:04,105
it just was really, um,

957
00:42:05,148 --> 00:42:07,652
groundbreaking and just...

958
00:42:07,652 --> 00:42:09,068
You know, I feel like I've been

959
00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:10,862
emailing you guys
and trying to communicate.

960
00:42:10,862 --> 00:42:13,032
[crying] Like,
I don't know if you understand

961
00:42:13,032 --> 00:42:14,658
how much this touched my life

962
00:42:14,658 --> 00:42:18,245
and made me feel like
there was a place for me.

963
00:42:18,245 --> 00:42:19,247
Wow.

964
00:42:20,788 --> 00:42:22,082
This is

965
00:42:22,875 --> 00:42:26,545
the, um, 1.0. version,

966
00:42:26,545 --> 00:42:28,713
uh, almost completely
shrink-wrapped.

967
00:42:28,713 --> 00:42:31,050
This is for the Apple.

968
00:42:31,050 --> 00:42:34,093
Whenever I designed a piece
of software that a person would

969
00:42:34,093 --> 00:42:35,803
sit down at the computer
and use,

970
00:42:35,803 --> 00:42:38,640
I design from the interface in.

971
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,725
The screen and the keyboard in.

972
00:42:40,725 --> 00:42:44,145
It doesn't take much
for a program to give a person

973
00:42:44,145 --> 00:42:47,565
the idea that there's something
in there listening to them.

974
00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:48,692
[Jazmin] Mm.

975
00:42:48,692 --> 00:42:53,280
I would like to claim
that back in 1987,

976
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,615
we were totally woke

977
00:42:54,615 --> 00:42:57,408
and we planned Mavis
to be an icon.

978
00:42:57,408 --> 00:43:01,955
Um, we were in the right place
at the right time.

979
00:43:01,955 --> 00:43:05,125
Les had a genius idea

980
00:43:05,125 --> 00:43:07,418
to put, uh, a Black person

981
00:43:07,418 --> 00:43:11,715
on the title and on the cover
as a marketing thing.

982
00:43:11,715 --> 00:43:13,800
[Joe] When we created
the product,

983
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,512
there was
a little bit of controversy.

984
00:43:17,553 --> 00:43:21,600
Nobody had ever seen
a Black woman

985
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,935
on the cover of
a computer product.

986
00:43:23,935 --> 00:43:27,063
Basically,
the orders got cut in half,

987
00:43:27,063 --> 00:43:29,900
and, of course, it went on
to become the number one

988
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:33,028
educational software product
of all time.

989
00:43:33,028 --> 00:43:35,488
[Jazmin]
Who originally scouted Renée?

990
00:43:36,657 --> 00:43:40,410
My-my note... notes say that Les

991
00:43:40,410 --> 00:43:43,747
and, um, his partner
at the time found her

992
00:43:43,747 --> 00:43:47,668
behind the cosmetics counter
at Saks in Beverly Hills.

993
00:43:47,668 --> 00:43:50,170
[Jazmin] Do you remember
the name of Les's partner?

994
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:51,588
Um...

995
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:59,805
I don't know who he was
with at the time.

996
00:43:59,805 --> 00:44:01,598
Um...

997
00:44:01,598 --> 00:44:03,767
You know, for a while, he...

998
00:44:03,767 --> 00:44:07,020
-Well, again, J-Joe would know.
-Okay, I'll ask Joe.

999
00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:11,733
One day, Les and I were walking
through Downtown Beverly Hills.

1000
00:44:11,733 --> 00:44:15,403
Les said, "I need to run into
Saks Fifth Avenue here

1001
00:44:15,403 --> 00:44:19,198
and buy some, uh,
perfume for my fiancée."

1002
00:44:19,198 --> 00:44:24,538
The woman behind the counter
was Renée Lesperance.

1003
00:44:24,538 --> 00:44:28,167
She was a Haitian, um, emigre.

1004
00:44:28,167 --> 00:44:33,088
She had fingernails that were
about three inches long.

1005
00:44:33,088 --> 00:44:36,258
It looked like she had never
touched a keyboard in her life.

1006
00:44:36,258 --> 00:44:38,552
And we said, "Have you ever
done any modeling?"

1007
00:44:38,552 --> 00:44:39,678
She said, "No."

1008
00:44:39,678 --> 00:44:41,972
We said, "Well,
we'd like to use your face

1009
00:44:41,972 --> 00:44:45,892
on the cover, uh,
of-of a computer game."

1010
00:44:45,892 --> 00:44:49,397
And she said, you know,
"What's a computer?"

1011
00:44:49,397 --> 00:44:51,107
We explained to her
what the game was.

1012
00:44:51,107 --> 00:44:54,275
"All you have to do is come down
one Sunday morning.

1013
00:44:54,275 --> 00:44:57,487
"We'll pay you 500 dollars,
we'll buy your clothes,

1014
00:44:57,487 --> 00:44:59,657
and we'll put you on a package."

1015
00:44:59,657 --> 00:45:01,200
She was very nice.

1016
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,118
She was thrilled
to be a part of it.

1017
00:45:03,118 --> 00:45:05,745
Can you tell me, what
do you remember, if anything?

1018
00:45:05,745 --> 00:45:09,040
I remember being asked
to walk with a lady

1019
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,918
that I had never met before
and had no idea who she was.

1020
00:45:11,918 --> 00:45:13,712
And I do remember
she was very nice.

1021
00:45:13,712 --> 00:45:15,047
[Jazmin]
I have one last question.

1022
00:45:15,047 --> 00:45:16,965
-[Matt] Sure.
-Can we mimic this pose?

1023
00:45:16,965 --> 00:45:19,133
Can I be the Mavis Beacon
to the younger you?

1024
00:45:19,133 --> 00:45:21,262
-[chuckles] Sure. Yeah.
-Okay.

1025
00:45:21,262 --> 00:45:24,138
[Joe] Okay, so you just walk
and look up at her and smile.

1026
00:45:24,138 --> 00:45:25,557
-All right.
-It's your right. Hold--

1027
00:45:25,557 --> 00:45:27,350
-[Jazmin] Am I on the--
-No, my left hand.

1028
00:45:27,350 --> 00:45:29,352
Your right hand
holds her left hand.

1029
00:45:29,352 --> 00:45:31,480
-No, that's not true.
-That's not true.

1030
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,315
-Your left holds her right.
-Yeah.

1031
00:45:33,315 --> 00:45:38,570
They walked down like this,
with looking at each other.

1032
00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:40,280
[Jazmin chuckles]
Okay, so I see.

1033
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,907
Call action for us, Joe.

1034
00:45:41,907 --> 00:45:42,950
[Joe] Action.

1035
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:44,785
[mysterious music playing]

1036
00:45:46,912 --> 00:45:49,413
[Jazmin]
Do you think I'll find Renée?

1037
00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:57,130
Uh, boy, who knows? Um...

1038
00:45:57,130 --> 00:45:59,298
All you need is one lucky break.

1039
00:46:00,592 --> 00:46:02,302
Um...

1040
00:46:02,302 --> 00:46:04,847
I don't know. I mean,
what-what...

1041
00:46:04,847 --> 00:46:08,100
Say you find her.
What will it mean when you do?

1042
00:46:09,058 --> 00:46:10,643
[Joe] You should record this

1043
00:46:10,643 --> 00:46:12,813
'cause it's a little bit
of history.

1044
00:46:14,063 --> 00:46:16,858
These are the original
negatives...

1045
00:46:16,858 --> 00:46:19,528
-Wow.
-...of the photo shoot.

1046
00:46:19,528 --> 00:46:22,280
Do you think
I'll find Renée Lesperance?

1047
00:46:23,865 --> 00:46:26,493
[Joe] I don't know. I've looked.

1048
00:46:26,493 --> 00:46:29,538
It's a mystery
as to where she is

1049
00:46:29,538 --> 00:46:32,582
and whether or not
we'll ever find her.

1050
00:46:34,543 --> 00:46:37,087
Yeah, that'll make Olivia
real jealous.

1051
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,673
Two old software tycoons.

1052
00:46:39,673 --> 00:46:40,882
[laughing]

1053
00:46:40,882 --> 00:46:42,342
[Olivia] They get you leads?

1054
00:46:42,342 --> 00:46:45,095
Barely. Barely.
They're not gonna help us.

1055
00:46:45,095 --> 00:46:46,263
I asked them both,

1056
00:46:46,263 --> 00:46:48,390
"Do you think
I'll find Renée Lesperance?"

1057
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:52,477
Both of them, like, had a weird
pregnant pause around that

1058
00:46:52,477 --> 00:46:55,188
that I think is, like,
them manifesting that I don't.

1059
00:46:55,188 --> 00:46:57,398
-Like, I don't think...
- Oh, my God. [laughs]

1060
00:46:57,398 --> 00:46:59,067
I think there's a settlement.

1061
00:46:59,067 --> 00:47:01,027
I think that they don't
want to talk about it.

1062
00:47:01,027 --> 00:47:03,197
I would say they're cooperating
with the investigation,

1063
00:47:03,197 --> 00:47:05,240
but they're-they're
withholding information.

1064
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:06,575
But I got the negatives.

1065
00:47:06,575 --> 00:47:07,910
-[Olivia] Awesome.
-Yeah.

1066
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:09,828
And so I'm gonna go
get those scanned tomorrow.

1067
00:47:09,828 --> 00:47:13,707
Olivia, it's so incredible
to see Renée's face

1068
00:47:13,707 --> 00:47:16,543
with a different expression
at a different angle.

1069
00:47:16,543 --> 00:47:17,878
[Olivia laughing]

1070
00:47:17,878 --> 00:47:20,213
Oh, she's so pretty.

1071
00:47:20,213 --> 00:47:22,507
This one, she's a little blurry.

1072
00:47:22,507 --> 00:47:25,302
[Jazmin] When you see
detectives in movies,

1073
00:47:25,302 --> 00:47:27,178
they don't...
they show you the map.

1074
00:47:27,178 --> 00:47:30,473
They don't show them cutting out
the pieces that go into the map.

1075
00:47:30,473 --> 00:47:31,767
That's the difference between

1076
00:47:31,767 --> 00:47:33,893
a detective movie
and a stalker movie.

1077
00:47:33,893 --> 00:47:36,647
-I think we talked about this.
-Yes. Actually, you're right.

1078
00:47:36,647 --> 00:47:39,107
How do you write a letter
from two people at once?

1079
00:47:39,107 --> 00:47:41,485
-"We are Jazmin and Olivia."
-[Olivia] Uh...

1080
00:47:41,485 --> 00:47:44,195
[Jazmin] "We've been waiting to
meet you for a very long time."

1081
00:47:44,195 --> 00:47:46,948
[Olivia] Oh, my God,
that's so stalkerish.

1082
00:47:46,948 --> 00:47:50,868
Um, "Hope this..." I don't know.
How do people start emails?

1083
00:47:50,868 --> 00:47:52,370
I feel like it's not
that different.

1084
00:47:52,370 --> 00:47:53,955
"I hope this letter
finds you well"?

1085
00:47:53,955 --> 00:47:55,248
-Yeah?
-Yeah.

1086
00:47:55,248 --> 00:47:57,042
"Dear Renée: I hope
this letter finds you well."

1087
00:47:57,042 --> 00:47:58,627
That's solid, solid, solid.

1088
00:47:58,627 --> 00:48:02,422
Um,
"We found your house online."

1089
00:48:02,422 --> 00:48:04,925
How do you address, like,
"We found your address"?

1090
00:48:04,925 --> 00:48:06,217
Where it came--

1091
00:48:06,217 --> 00:48:07,885
We don't even live in Florida,
bro.

1092
00:48:07,885 --> 00:48:10,138
-We're just, like, here.
-[both laughing]

1093
00:48:18,938 --> 00:48:21,608
[Olivia] Hi.

1094
00:48:21,608 --> 00:48:24,778
-[Jazmin] How are you doing?
-Doing good. How you doing?

1095
00:48:24,778 --> 00:48:26,822
Good. Thank you for making time.

1096
00:48:26,822 --> 00:48:31,075
So, yeah, this is the...
our beautiful garden.

1097
00:48:31,075 --> 00:48:35,330
And I lived in one room
for about, like, a month or two.

1098
00:48:35,330 --> 00:48:38,333
And since, I've been--
I moved downstairs.

1099
00:48:38,333 --> 00:48:40,460
I think I realized
I needed to be grounded.

1100
00:48:40,460 --> 00:48:44,213
Like, being upstairs,
I can be all up in my head and--

1101
00:48:44,213 --> 00:48:47,467
I would call it my spaceship,
so...

1102
00:48:47,467 --> 00:48:48,552
You got to be mindful of

1103
00:48:48,552 --> 00:48:50,137
the energies
that are around you.

1104
00:48:50,137 --> 00:48:53,682
But my room's name is Shodashi.
It's, like, a form of Kali.

1105
00:48:53,682 --> 00:48:56,810
It's, like, the graceful,
queen-like vibe.

1106
00:48:56,810 --> 00:48:59,270
Enjoy the plush.

1107
00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:00,938
If you feel like
you need some more support,

1108
00:49:00,938 --> 00:49:02,690
you could use
these pillows behind you.

1109
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:04,442
I love this.
I love this so much.

1110
00:49:04,442 --> 00:49:06,737
-Thank you.
-Arrange...

1111
00:49:06,737 --> 00:49:08,447
Rearrange and do
what you need to.

1112
00:49:08,447 --> 00:49:10,157
-[hums playfully]
-[laughing]

1113
00:49:10,157 --> 00:49:13,285
This is a very powerful day,
y'all.

1114
00:49:13,285 --> 00:49:17,038
It's two, two-two, two, two-two.

1115
00:49:19,373 --> 00:49:20,875
This is like...

1116
00:49:20,875 --> 00:49:22,918
This is like
what Beyoncé was telling us,

1117
00:49:22,918 --> 00:49:24,922
to get in formation, to, like,
be...

1118
00:49:24,922 --> 00:49:26,465
[laughing softly]

1119
00:49:26,465 --> 00:49:28,550
...in whatever alignment
we need to be in

1120
00:49:28,550 --> 00:49:30,093
for whatever checkpoints
we reach.

1121
00:49:30,093 --> 00:49:31,720
Like, you know?

1122
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:34,055
I don't know.

1123
00:49:34,055 --> 00:49:38,143
So, what is...
what brings you here?

1124
00:49:38,143 --> 00:49:40,895
[Olivia] We're hoping
to make contact

1125
00:49:40,895 --> 00:49:44,357
with Renée in some way
in the next couple of days.

1126
00:49:44,357 --> 00:49:47,527
We want, yeah, Renée
to be able to encounter us

1127
00:49:47,527 --> 00:49:52,115
and to, like, decide, like,
with full information,

1128
00:49:52,115 --> 00:49:55,327
like, whether or not
she wants to be,

1129
00:49:55,327 --> 00:49:57,495
like, a part of this project.

1130
00:49:57,495 --> 00:50:00,915
Um, and also, if, like,

1131
00:50:00,915 --> 00:50:03,502
for, like, spirit to, like,
hide her

1132
00:50:03,502 --> 00:50:06,253
if, like, this isn't
what she wants,

1133
00:50:06,253 --> 00:50:09,883
and, like, to prevent...
to keep her from harm.

1134
00:50:09,883 --> 00:50:12,468
A year ago,
Olivia and I started this,

1135
00:50:12,468 --> 00:50:17,223
and, like, we're like these
DIY little e-girl detectives

1136
00:50:17,223 --> 00:50:20,685
that are also thinking about,
like, surveillance

1137
00:50:20,685 --> 00:50:24,605
and, like, policing and, um,
consent

1138
00:50:24,605 --> 00:50:26,567
and the possibility of, like:

1139
00:50:26,567 --> 00:50:28,985
What if this woman
does not want to be found?

1140
00:50:28,985 --> 00:50:30,445
Right? So...

1141
00:50:30,445 --> 00:50:35,658
Letting her know, like, what--
the intentions behind this work.

1142
00:50:35,658 --> 00:50:39,328
Basically clear a path
so that we can, like,

1143
00:50:39,328 --> 00:50:40,997
check in, do a wellness check,

1144
00:50:40,997 --> 00:50:42,665
but also,
if it's not meant to be,

1145
00:50:42,665 --> 00:50:45,460
then, like, that clarifies
in a way, too.

1146
00:50:46,293 --> 00:50:47,837
We're just in a place where

1147
00:50:47,837 --> 00:50:49,672
there's a lot going on for us.
[laughing]

1148
00:50:49,672 --> 00:50:52,050
There's a lot going on
right now. Uh...

1149
00:50:52,050 --> 00:50:55,345
Well, here I'm just acting
as a sounding board

1150
00:50:55,345 --> 00:50:58,640
and channel for spirits, so, um,

1151
00:50:59,767 --> 00:51:02,852
with that hat on, let us see.

1152
00:51:02,852 --> 00:51:04,938
[metal chiming]

1153
00:51:12,112 --> 00:51:13,488
[Jazmin] Mm.

1154
00:51:15,698 --> 00:51:17,450
This is cute.

1155
00:51:21,788 --> 00:51:24,457
[indistinct chattering]

1156
00:51:24,457 --> 00:51:27,668
-Yeah, thank you, Soleil.
-[Soleil] You're welcome.

1157
00:51:27,668 --> 00:51:29,503
[chanting]

1158
00:51:29,503 --> 00:51:31,047
Welcome, spirits.

1159
00:51:31,047 --> 00:51:33,425
[all chanting]

1160
00:51:33,425 --> 00:51:35,510
[all laughing]

1161
00:51:36,887 --> 00:51:39,013
[soft music playing]

1162
00:51:50,483 --> 00:51:53,027
Hi. Uh, this is Olivia.

1163
00:51:53,027 --> 00:51:54,445
Um, just following up.

1164
00:51:54,445 --> 00:51:58,073
Me and my collaborator,
Jazmin, are really,

1165
00:51:58,073 --> 00:52:01,035
really interested in talking
to you, Renée, if this is you.

1166
00:52:01,035 --> 00:52:04,372
We also-- we have some photos
of the first time

1167
00:52:04,372 --> 00:52:05,957
you modeled for the game,

1168
00:52:05,957 --> 00:52:08,125
and we'd really, really love
to give them to you.

1169
00:52:08,125 --> 00:52:09,252
It doesn't have to be...

1170
00:52:09,252 --> 00:52:10,753
It doesn't have to be on camera.

1171
00:52:10,753 --> 00:52:12,713
We'd just really, really like
to talk to you.

1172
00:52:12,713 --> 00:52:14,382
Please let us know
that you've been

1173
00:52:14,382 --> 00:52:15,967
receiving our messages.

1174
00:52:15,967 --> 00:52:17,343
[Jazmin] So, what do we have?

1175
00:52:17,343 --> 00:52:19,595
We have her address.
She hasn't returned our calls.

1176
00:52:19,595 --> 00:52:21,055
We're pretty sure
that's her number.

1177
00:52:21,055 --> 00:52:23,308
That's, yeah--
It's probably her number.

1178
00:52:23,308 --> 00:52:27,270
I feel like, one,
we should call again,

1179
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:32,358
and I also feel like maybe
we should try calling her son?

1180
00:52:32,358 --> 00:52:35,612
[Jazmin] Here's my concern
with calling her son.

1181
00:52:35,612 --> 00:52:38,490
There's a chance
that she's also, like,

1182
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:43,412
doesn't appreciate us
reaching out to her

1183
00:52:43,412 --> 00:52:45,163
via her relatives.

1184
00:52:45,163 --> 00:52:46,455
I'm just worried about, like,

1185
00:52:46,455 --> 00:52:48,292
getting some O.D.
mama bear energy

1186
00:52:48,292 --> 00:52:50,377
of like, "Don't come for me
through my..."

1187
00:52:50,377 --> 00:52:52,128
Like, "You reached--
I got your message.

1188
00:52:52,128 --> 00:52:53,963
"I've actively been-been
avoiding you,

1189
00:52:53,963 --> 00:52:56,758
and now you're dragging
my son into this."

1190
00:52:56,758 --> 00:52:57,967
Like, that's my concern here.

1191
00:52:57,967 --> 00:52:59,510
[Olivia] Like,
it's quite possible

1192
00:52:59,510 --> 00:53:01,095
we called and left her
a voice message

1193
00:53:01,095 --> 00:53:02,763
and she doesn't listen
to her voicemail.

1194
00:53:02,763 --> 00:53:08,018
So, like, what if
we called [bleep]?

1195
00:53:08,018 --> 00:53:09,853
-[grunts softly]
-Yes! [chuckling]

1196
00:53:09,853 --> 00:53:11,480
You're gonna to do
the talking on this.

1197
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,023
-Sure.
-'Cause this is your idea.

1198
00:53:13,023 --> 00:53:14,650
[line beeps]

1199
00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:16,820
Hello. Um...

1200
00:53:16,820 --> 00:53:19,447
Please excuse me if we have
the wrong person,

1201
00:53:19,447 --> 00:53:21,825
uh, but, uh, my name's Olivia,

1202
00:53:21,825 --> 00:53:24,035
and we are currently
working on a project

1203
00:53:24,035 --> 00:53:26,830
about "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing," um,

1204
00:53:26,830 --> 00:53:31,292
which we believe, uh,
is a legacy of your family.

1205
00:53:31,292 --> 00:53:35,922
Please call back, uh,
if this is the right family,

1206
00:53:35,922 --> 00:53:38,425
um, or at least, like,
to let us know

1207
00:53:38,425 --> 00:53:40,677
if you're not interested
in being part of the project,

1208
00:53:40,677 --> 00:53:42,512
um, just call us back
and let us know.

1209
00:53:42,512 --> 00:53:44,305
We promise we won't
bother you anymore.

1210
00:53:44,305 --> 00:53:45,557
[laughs] Um...

1211
00:53:45,557 --> 00:53:47,933
And, yeah, you can call me
back at 347-2...

1212
00:53:47,933 --> 00:53:49,477
[automated voice]
Message erased.

1213
00:53:49,477 --> 00:53:50,728
- At the tone...
-What?

1214
00:53:50,728 --> 00:53:52,230
...please rerecord your
message...

1215
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:53,523
-[laughing]
-LOL.

1216
00:53:53,523 --> 00:53:55,067
[automated voice] ...message,
press one.

1217
00:53:55,067 --> 00:53:56,275
[line beeps]

1218
00:53:56,275 --> 00:54:00,030
[Olivia] Hi,
[bleep]. Um, this is Olivia.

1219
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,532
[device beeps]

1220
00:54:02,532 --> 00:54:04,367
[automated voice]
Speed trap reported ahead.

1221
00:54:04,367 --> 00:54:07,453
[Olivia]
The ethical boundary question

1222
00:54:08,747 --> 00:54:11,667
is a bit exhausting for me now.

1223
00:54:11,667 --> 00:54:14,210
-[Jazmin] Feel like we're here?
-[Olivia] I think so.

1224
00:54:14,210 --> 00:54:15,670
It's like, there's one thing
to be,

1225
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:17,505
"Oh,
what's the ethical boundary?"

1226
00:54:17,505 --> 00:54:20,508
But it's like, we already
went to her house in Highland

1227
00:54:20,508 --> 00:54:22,343
that she hasn't lived at
for 20 years.

1228
00:54:22,343 --> 00:54:23,678
We knew she wouldn't be there.

1229
00:54:23,678 --> 00:54:24,972
We already walked up and down.

1230
00:54:24,972 --> 00:54:26,138
So does that make it bet--

1231
00:54:26,138 --> 00:54:27,890
I feel like that doesn't
make it better.

1232
00:54:27,890 --> 00:54:29,850
[automated voice]
Take the first exit.

1233
00:54:29,850 --> 00:54:31,602
[Jazmin] If she's there,
we don't--

1234
00:54:31,602 --> 00:54:32,937
We have the photos on us.

1235
00:54:32,937 --> 00:54:35,482
-We have the photos on us.
-If she's there, we go.

1236
00:54:35,482 --> 00:54:37,275
[Olivia] Yeah?

1237
00:54:37,275 --> 00:54:39,693
-[Jazmin] This one.
-Oh, my God. The door's open.

1238
00:54:39,693 --> 00:54:41,028
-Oh, my God.
-Wait.

1239
00:54:41,028 --> 00:54:42,822
I'm gonna speak to that guy.

1240
00:54:42,822 --> 00:54:44,865
There's a guy.
I'm gonna run out.

1241
00:54:44,865 --> 00:54:46,325
[Olivia] Oh, my God.

1242
00:54:47,952 --> 00:54:49,912
[woman] How did y'all
end up here?

1243
00:54:49,912 --> 00:54:51,832
-[Jazmin] Well--
-[man] Are you from New York?

1244
00:54:51,832 --> 00:54:53,123
[Olivia] This sounds so sus.

1245
00:54:53,123 --> 00:54:55,460
[Jazmin] I'm sorry. We--
Trust us, we're harmless.

1246
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:57,420
-We are...
-[Olivia] That sounds worse.

1247
00:54:57,420 --> 00:55:00,132
-[Jazmin laughs] I'm so sorry!
-[man] Did you call [bleep]?

1248
00:55:00,132 --> 00:55:01,590
-Yeah.
-Yes.

1249
00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:03,593
-[man] Did you leave a message?
-[Olivia] Yeah, that was me.

1250
00:55:03,593 --> 00:55:06,053
[man] We were on the phone
when you guys called.

1251
00:55:06,053 --> 00:55:07,555
-Oh, my God.
-Let me go make a call.

1252
00:55:07,555 --> 00:55:09,140
[Jazmin]
Okay. We'll be right here.

1253
00:55:09,140 --> 00:55:10,558
[Olivia] Also, sorry to be...

1254
00:55:10,558 --> 00:55:12,060
Sorry for rolling up
unexpectedly.

1255
00:55:12,060 --> 00:55:13,227
[Olivia] Yeah.

1256
00:55:13,227 --> 00:55:14,937
We were gonna pass by,
then we saw you--

1257
00:55:14,937 --> 00:55:16,647
But you guys were out of
the house--

1258
00:55:16,647 --> 00:55:18,190
Anyway. Thank you so much.

1259
00:55:18,190 --> 00:55:19,358
[Olivia] Hello?

1260
00:55:19,358 --> 00:55:20,527
[Renée's son] Hello?

1261
00:55:20,527 --> 00:55:22,153
Hi. Um, is this [bleep]?

1262
00:55:22,153 --> 00:55:25,740
-[Renée's son] Yes, this is.
-Hi. This is Olivia.

1263
00:55:25,740 --> 00:55:28,493
Me and Jazmin are just
really, really big fans

1264
00:55:28,493 --> 00:55:30,120
of "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing."

1265
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:31,620
The idea of even talking to her

1266
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:33,415
feels like talking to
a superhero.

1267
00:55:33,415 --> 00:55:36,083
We hoping that this comes across
as a wellness check,

1268
00:55:36,083 --> 00:55:38,503
just to be like, "You good?
Did you get your flowers?

1269
00:55:38,503 --> 00:55:40,463
"Should the public be mad
at these developers?

1270
00:55:40,463 --> 00:55:42,382
Are you good?" [chuckles] Um...

1271
00:55:42,382 --> 00:55:44,883
And also, who is she outside
of this character, right?

1272
00:55:44,883 --> 00:55:47,428
The only thing, if you search
"Renée Lesperance,"

1273
00:55:47,428 --> 00:55:49,555
you just get
whatever the developers said.

1274
00:55:49,555 --> 00:55:52,100
But it's like, "What brought
you here from Haiti?

1275
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:54,268
"Um, what is your relationship
to technology?

1276
00:55:54,268 --> 00:55:56,312
"How do you feel about
being this role model?

1277
00:55:56,312 --> 00:55:58,482
Do people recognize you?"
Like, all sorts of things.

1278
00:55:58,482 --> 00:56:00,567
So we just have
a lot of questions for her.

1279
00:56:00,567 --> 00:56:02,568
But mostly it's all love.

1280
00:56:02,568 --> 00:56:03,903
[Renée's son] I have to talk--

1281
00:56:03,903 --> 00:56:05,697
I have to really talk to her
about all this

1282
00:56:05,697 --> 00:56:07,990
and get an idea
of what she thinks

1283
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:09,783
and what she wants to do.

1284
00:56:09,783 --> 00:56:11,702
In terms of, is she camera-shy,

1285
00:56:11,702 --> 00:56:14,538
or do you think she would be
willing to talk about this,

1286
00:56:14,538 --> 00:56:16,540
this... any of this? [chuckles]

1287
00:56:16,540 --> 00:56:18,960
[Renée's son] She's a very quiet
and private person.

1288
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,005
No Facebook,
no social media, no nothing.

1289
00:56:22,005 --> 00:56:24,007
She has no digital footprint
whatsoever.

1290
00:56:24,007 --> 00:56:26,300
She's the type
that has to let things digest

1291
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:27,885
and think about it.

1292
00:56:27,885 --> 00:56:30,097
She doesn't, she doesn't make
impulse decisions at all.

1293
00:56:30,097 --> 00:56:31,765
She's, you know-- never has.

1294
00:56:31,765 --> 00:56:33,975
And, you know, even to do
the "Mavis Beacon,"

1295
00:56:33,975 --> 00:56:35,268
it wasn't an impulse decision.

1296
00:56:35,268 --> 00:56:36,435
She thought about it.

1297
00:56:36,435 --> 00:56:37,853
I'll reach out,
I'll talk to my mom,

1298
00:56:37,853 --> 00:56:40,063
and then I'll reach out
and let you know,

1299
00:56:40,063 --> 00:56:42,400
"I spoke with her," and we'll
see where it takes us.

1300
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:43,485
[both] Thank you.

1301
00:56:43,485 --> 00:56:45,153
You have no idea
how, just, like,

1302
00:56:45,153 --> 00:56:47,113
how helpful and affirming it is
that we also

1303
00:56:47,113 --> 00:56:50,783
didn't come across the country
to the wrong house, at least--

1304
00:56:50,783 --> 00:56:53,912
or that we are on, we--
that she's alive and well.

1305
00:56:53,912 --> 00:56:56,247
-We're so happy to hear that.
-[Renée's son] Yeah.

1306
00:56:56,247 --> 00:56:58,583
- Have a great night, ladies.
-[both] You too.

1307
00:56:58,583 --> 00:57:00,877
- All right. Bye-bye.
-Bye.

1308
00:57:02,045 --> 00:57:03,755
All right,
we have to compose ourselves.

1309
00:57:03,755 --> 00:57:05,005
We have to compose ourselves,

1310
00:57:05,005 --> 00:57:06,507
we're still
in front of their house.

1311
00:57:06,507 --> 00:57:08,050
We are still
in front of the house.

1312
00:57:08,050 --> 00:57:09,260
What did you say?

1313
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:11,303
You said we're gonna talk
to the son, Olivia.

1314
00:57:11,303 --> 00:57:13,807
-You're a fucking witch.
-[Olivia hums fanfare]

1315
00:57:13,807 --> 00:57:15,600
[upbeat music playing]

1316
00:57:24,775 --> 00:57:26,777
Eh, I don't know.

1317
00:57:26,777 --> 00:57:29,030
I'm tired. I'm just tired.

1318
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:33,075
We don't need to also be
the beacons of, like,

1319
00:57:33,075 --> 00:57:35,077
excellence and hope
all the time.

1320
00:57:35,077 --> 00:57:36,453
Like, I don't want to be

1321
00:57:36,453 --> 00:57:38,247
a perfect Black person
all the time.

1322
00:57:38,247 --> 00:57:39,957
And I'm not.

1323
00:57:39,957 --> 00:57:41,292
I'm rarely, like--

1324
00:57:41,292 --> 00:57:44,378
I'm also a human being
that's, like, literally,

1325
00:57:44,378 --> 00:57:48,048
hungover 90% of my life.

1326
00:57:48,048 --> 00:57:50,468
And I need everyone else to
catch up,

1327
00:57:50,468 --> 00:57:52,137
'cause, like, I don't want to be

1328
00:57:52,137 --> 00:57:54,347
the person that's explaining
shit all the time, like...

1329
00:57:54,347 --> 00:57:56,640
All these adults were like,
"Children are the future."

1330
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,017
It's like, "You guys actually

1331
00:57:58,017 --> 00:57:59,935
"do not think
children are the future.

1332
00:57:59,935 --> 00:58:03,105
"You have invested
no actual, like,

1333
00:58:03,105 --> 00:58:04,398
like, capital..."

1334
00:58:04,398 --> 00:58:06,025
You cemented no path of hope.

1335
00:58:06,025 --> 00:58:07,402
Right? It's like,

1336
00:58:07,402 --> 00:58:09,403
if you actually were moving
in a way where you believed

1337
00:58:09,403 --> 00:58:11,238
that children
were the future, like...

1338
00:58:11,238 --> 00:58:13,992
-Shit would always be centered.
-Shit would be way different.

1339
00:58:13,992 --> 00:58:15,952
It's like, now
the children are growing up,

1340
00:58:15,952 --> 00:58:18,705
and it's like, "Hey, f-future?"

1341
00:58:18,705 --> 00:58:19,955
Question mark, question mark,

1342
00:58:19,955 --> 00:58:21,457
question mark,
exclamation point.

1343
00:58:21,457 --> 00:58:22,917
[all laughing]

1344
00:58:24,835 --> 00:58:26,378
[soft music playing]

1345
00:58:27,588 --> 00:58:30,007
[tool buzzing]

1346
00:58:36,305 --> 00:58:38,683
[Jazmin] I don't even
fucking know where to begin.

1347
00:58:38,683 --> 00:58:41,060
These nonprofit dudes

1348
00:58:41,060 --> 00:58:45,815
turned our headquarters
into essentially a man cave.

1349
00:58:45,815 --> 00:58:49,277
They were using the space
to do jam sessions.

1350
00:58:49,277 --> 00:58:52,322
They took down all the images
of Black women.

1351
00:58:53,530 --> 00:58:56,033
The "Seeking Mavis Beacon"
sign, they took that.

1352
00:58:56,033 --> 00:58:57,743
[Olivia] It's fucked up.

1353
00:58:57,743 --> 00:59:00,705
Like, the only, like,
explanation my brain can

1354
00:59:00,705 --> 00:59:04,167
conjure for, like,
why anyone would do this

1355
00:59:04,167 --> 00:59:06,168
feels, like, malicious.

1356
00:59:06,168 --> 00:59:09,463
Like, I don't know what
they're going to say to you.

1357
00:59:10,757 --> 00:59:13,885
-So, really quickly...
-I don't want to speak quickly.

1358
00:59:13,885 --> 00:59:15,928
I want to sit down,
and I would like to chat.

1359
00:59:15,928 --> 00:59:17,055
I mean, what do you need?

1360
00:59:17,055 --> 00:59:19,598
First of all,
who was using this space?

1361
00:59:19,598 --> 00:59:21,433
-Okay, first of all...
-Yeah.

1362
00:59:21,433 --> 00:59:23,227
...we provided the space
for free.

1363
00:59:23,227 --> 00:59:25,855
And what happened was

1364
00:59:25,855 --> 00:59:27,773
I had volunteers in here
with boxes,

1365
00:59:27,773 --> 00:59:29,650
picking up the stuff
and putting it in boxes.

1366
00:59:29,650 --> 00:59:30,652
-Okay?
-Yeah.

1367
00:59:30,652 --> 00:59:32,237
I don't know where
those boxes are.

1368
00:59:32,237 --> 00:59:33,863
-I cut that lock...
-Yeah.

1369
00:59:33,863 --> 00:59:36,407
...and when we came in here,
I turned ... and I said,

1370
00:59:36,407 --> 00:59:38,702
"You called them
and emailed them, right?"

1371
00:59:38,702 --> 00:59:41,495
-[sighs]: Oh, my God.
-I got no calls, nothing.

1372
00:59:41,495 --> 00:59:43,580
When I said to ...
"I don't have any messages..."

1373
00:59:43,580 --> 00:59:46,917
I stood in that doorway,
and I said,

1374
00:59:46,917 --> 00:59:48,293
"You call them right now.

1375
00:59:48,293 --> 00:59:50,505
It looks like they're
not done here, Jazmin."

1376
00:59:50,505 --> 00:59:51,880
All right, can we not film?

1377
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,675
I don't want to be on camera
badmouthing an employee.

1378
00:59:53,675 --> 00:59:55,802
-No, it's fine.
-Can we turn that part off?

1379
00:59:55,802 --> 00:59:57,178
-[Jazmin] Okay.
-[man] Here it is.

1380
00:59:57,178 --> 00:59:59,597
[Jazmin]
I'm not, uh, good at, like...

1381
00:59:59,597 --> 01:00:00,973
I am deeply aware of just

1382
01:00:00,973 --> 01:00:03,100
the angry Black woman
stereotypes that I'm facing.

1383
01:00:03,100 --> 01:00:05,645
In my body, I don't feel like
I have full range

1384
01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:08,147
to yell at you in that way,
and that's not my interest.

1385
01:00:08,147 --> 01:00:10,817
We are all in the business
of preservation here.

1386
01:00:10,817 --> 01:00:12,068
Part of the reason

1387
01:00:12,068 --> 01:00:14,028
that you guys don't give
a fuck about this work

1388
01:00:14,028 --> 01:00:16,697
is because there aren't people
like me in this organization.

1389
01:00:16,697 --> 01:00:19,783
[man] I'm in a terrible position
here. You've got me.

1390
01:00:19,783 --> 01:00:21,660
I have nothing to say.
I can't say anything.

1391
01:00:21,660 --> 01:00:23,663
[Jazmin] Look at what we did
with this place

1392
01:00:23,663 --> 01:00:25,873
that gave you guys, like,
fucking infections

1393
01:00:25,873 --> 01:00:27,333
when you used to touch
the floor.

1394
01:00:27,333 --> 01:00:29,085
[crying] And, like,
we brought light here.

1395
01:00:29,085 --> 01:00:31,878
And, like, I know that it's not
a fucking video game.

1396
01:00:31,878 --> 01:00:33,798
It's a software,
and it's got a Black woman,

1397
01:00:33,798 --> 01:00:36,550
and maybe it's not, like,
some fucking "Mario Kart" shit,

1398
01:00:36,550 --> 01:00:38,970
but it matters, too, right?

1399
01:00:38,970 --> 01:00:40,388
[man] Thank you for saying that.

1400
01:00:40,388 --> 01:00:42,057
I just want to say
that shared suffering

1401
01:00:42,057 --> 01:00:44,017
is one of the best ways
to build a relationship--

1402
01:00:44,017 --> 01:00:46,018
[Jazmin] I don't want
to trauma bond with y'all.

1403
01:00:46,018 --> 01:00:48,020
Like, also, I--
and I need accomplices.

1404
01:00:53,483 --> 01:00:55,903
-Stop! Stop!
-[woman] Oh.

1405
01:00:57,197 --> 01:01:00,450
Film it through, though.
Okay, stop this. [chuckles]

1406
01:01:05,328 --> 01:01:07,748
What does it mean? [laughing]

1407
01:01:09,208 --> 01:01:11,377
[upbeat music playing]

1408
01:01:15,297 --> 01:01:17,425
[phone ringing]

1409
01:01:17,425 --> 01:01:20,720
[automated voice]
Olivia... FaceTime video.

1410
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,680
[Olivia] Thank you
for the flowers.

1411
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,057
I feel so seen.

1412
01:01:24,057 --> 01:01:26,142
Like, this is such,
like, a cool, like...

1413
01:01:26,142 --> 01:01:28,227
If I were to pick flowers...

1414
01:01:28,227 --> 01:01:31,022
Like, they're so, like,
creepy and awesome.

1415
01:01:31,022 --> 01:01:32,648
Like, what's this yellow thing?

1416
01:01:32,648 --> 01:01:35,067
I think it's so funny
that, like, we were,

1417
01:01:35,067 --> 01:01:38,070
like, gallivanting
and never got COVID.

1418
01:01:38,070 --> 01:01:40,823
And then I come home.

1419
01:01:40,823 --> 01:01:43,242
And, like, the whole time,
we were like, "Oh, my God,

1420
01:01:43,242 --> 01:01:45,160
no one's wearing masks here."

1421
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,915
But lo and behold,
it wasn't the beach.

1422
01:01:48,915 --> 01:01:51,000
-[Jazmin] I'm sorry.
-It wasn't the restaurant.

1423
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,502
It was "Settlers of Catan."

1424
01:01:52,502 --> 01:01:54,212
That's what happens
when you gamify

1425
01:01:54,212 --> 01:01:56,505
settler colonialism, actually.

1426
01:01:56,505 --> 01:01:58,382
-That was, that was spirits...
-Yeah.

1427
01:01:58,382 --> 01:01:59,883
[laughing]
...making me quit that game.

1428
01:01:59,883 --> 01:02:03,470
You can't fucking quit!
You can't fucking quit!

1429
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:06,432
You can't fucking quit!

1430
01:02:06,432 --> 01:02:08,768
Something that crime shows
really helped me with

1431
01:02:08,768 --> 01:02:10,227
is being a bitch.

1432
01:02:10,227 --> 01:02:12,522
I love it so much now
because you think I'm gonna be

1433
01:02:12,522 --> 01:02:14,690
the girl that walked
into the room and lit up?

1434
01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:16,233
No, I didn't light up
into the room.

1435
01:02:16,233 --> 01:02:17,943
I brought negativity
into every room.

1436
01:02:17,943 --> 01:02:19,612
If you kill me,
you didn't dim my light.

1437
01:02:19,612 --> 01:02:20,947
I did it, and I beat you to it.

1438
01:02:20,947 --> 01:02:22,323
[man] Ready to fucking die!

1439
01:02:22,323 --> 01:02:25,075
Look, I'm a bad bitch.
You can't kill me.

1440
01:02:25,075 --> 01:02:29,205
All right, so if Mavis
will not speak to you now,

1441
01:02:29,205 --> 01:02:31,415
what are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do?

1442
01:02:31,415 --> 01:02:33,877
- What's your plan, filmmaker?
-[chuckles] Damn, Mom.

1443
01:02:33,877 --> 01:02:35,670
What's the way it's going down?

1444
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:37,422
What's the way
it's going down now?

1445
01:02:37,422 --> 01:02:40,423
What is your next play,
Jazmin Jones?

1446
01:02:40,423 --> 01:02:42,218
What's your next play?

1447
01:02:42,218 --> 01:02:44,678
The fact that you're
watching this video means

1448
01:02:44,678 --> 01:02:48,473
you are energetically aligned
with me and this message.

1449
01:02:48,473 --> 01:02:51,143
Your thoughts create
your reality.

1450
01:02:51,143 --> 01:02:52,562
But you already knew that,

1451
01:02:52,562 --> 01:02:54,980
yet you still live a life
that you dread.

1452
01:02:54,980 --> 01:02:56,523
[woman] Excuse me. [screams]

1453
01:02:56,523 --> 01:02:58,608
[laughing] No!

1454
01:03:00,443 --> 01:03:02,613
[FaceTime call ringing]

1455
01:03:05,032 --> 01:03:06,783
-Hello.
-What's happening?

1456
01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:08,953
-So, I'm here on the site.
-Yeah.

1457
01:03:08,953 --> 01:03:10,245
- Can you see this?
-Yeah.

1458
01:03:10,245 --> 01:03:12,038
-This is on Facebook?
-And I...

1459
01:03:12,038 --> 01:03:13,290
This is on a Facebook group

1460
01:03:13,290 --> 01:03:15,585
of, like,
Software Toolworks alumni.

1461
01:03:15,585 --> 01:03:20,463
And then this person says,
"Anyone else have one of these?

1462
01:03:20,463 --> 01:03:23,927
Signed to me after
the lawsuit was settled.

1463
01:03:23,927 --> 01:03:25,512
With all the royalty issues,

1464
01:03:25,512 --> 01:03:28,680
I felt like she was part of
my dysfunctional family."

1465
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,517
And it's a signed copy
of the game,

1466
01:03:31,517 --> 01:03:33,560
like, signed by Renée.

1467
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,188
They said
"After the lawsuit was settled"?

1468
01:03:36,188 --> 01:03:38,315
-Yes.
-Screenshot this.

1469
01:03:38,315 --> 01:03:39,442
Screenshot everything.

1470
01:03:39,442 --> 01:03:41,443
Here's a part that says,

1471
01:03:41,443 --> 01:03:42,862
"To the degree you can share,

1472
01:03:42,862 --> 01:03:45,072
what was the gist
of the lawsuit?"

1473
01:03:45,072 --> 01:03:47,450
And then Sandy Shepard says,

1474
01:03:47,450 --> 01:03:49,952
"The original release
did not allow for

1475
01:03:49,952 --> 01:03:52,413
derivative uses of the photo.

1476
01:03:52,413 --> 01:03:53,705
The 'woodblock cut' Mavis--

1477
01:03:53,705 --> 01:03:56,250
AKA fat-faced Mavis
that looked like

1478
01:03:56,250 --> 01:03:58,835
she had cat scratches
on her face--

1479
01:03:58,835 --> 01:04:00,547
was so unbelievably ugly

1480
01:04:00,547 --> 01:04:02,465
that she tried to get
the company

1481
01:04:02,465 --> 01:04:03,925
to take it off the shelves.

1482
01:04:03,925 --> 01:04:05,927
When the company refused,
she sued,

1483
01:04:05,927 --> 01:04:07,762
and it was
incredibly upsetting for her.

1484
01:04:07,762 --> 01:04:10,180
Her lawyer was off
to the races."

1485
01:04:10,180 --> 01:04:11,682
Hmm.

1486
01:04:11,682 --> 01:04:14,310
The way that's, like, the most
Caribbean thing I ever heard.

1487
01:04:14,310 --> 01:04:16,312
[both laughing]

1488
01:04:16,312 --> 01:04:17,605
"No, y'all didn't.

1489
01:04:17,605 --> 01:04:19,690
Y'all better take that down
right now."

1490
01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:21,442
Yeah, this is very heartening
to me

1491
01:04:21,442 --> 01:04:23,652
'cause it also confirms
that she was, like,

1492
01:04:23,652 --> 01:04:25,863
a bad bitch who was like,
"I'm taking my image.

1493
01:04:25,863 --> 01:04:27,113
I don't, like..."

1494
01:04:27,113 --> 01:04:28,865
And the fact that
she was proud of it.

1495
01:04:28,865 --> 01:04:30,827
I love that so much.

1496
01:04:30,827 --> 01:04:32,287
This is wild.

1497
01:04:32,287 --> 01:04:34,955
Thanks, Olivia.
You little sleuth.

1498
01:04:34,955 --> 01:04:37,333
My stalkings finally paid off.

1499
01:04:37,333 --> 01:04:39,918
Oh, my God.
Walt is on this thread.

1500
01:04:39,918 --> 01:04:42,128
-No.
-What is this--

1501
01:04:42,128 --> 01:04:43,838
-What is Walt saying?
-Walt is so sweet.

1502
01:04:43,838 --> 01:04:46,425
He says, "Now Jazmin
and Olivia call Mavis

1503
01:04:46,425 --> 01:04:48,885
"one of the most influential
Black women in technology,

1504
01:04:48,885 --> 01:04:50,387
even though imaginary.

1505
01:04:50,387 --> 01:04:53,348
Their interest in celebrating
Mavis in Silicon Valley

1506
01:04:53,348 --> 01:04:57,520
has relieved me of residual
cultural exploitation guilt."

1507
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,855
Well, I don't know
if we should have let him

1508
01:04:59,855 --> 01:05:02,442
off the hook fully,
but I'm glad he trusts us.

1509
01:05:02,442 --> 01:05:03,858
[Mary] One of the things is that

1510
01:05:03,858 --> 01:05:05,402
justice does not happen
in a vacuum.

1511
01:05:05,402 --> 01:05:07,447
The arc of moral justice
is really long,

1512
01:05:07,447 --> 01:05:10,365
and it al-always bends
towards righteousness.

1513
01:05:10,365 --> 01:05:13,118
So, Walter, take us back to
that era.

1514
01:05:13,118 --> 01:05:15,453
[Olivia] He mentioned in, like,
a Facebook comment group

1515
01:05:15,453 --> 01:05:19,125
that Les, like, was the one
who invented it, not Joe.

1516
01:05:19,125 --> 01:05:22,252
And then Walt, like,
t-tells us unprompted

1517
01:05:22,252 --> 01:05:23,920
that it was his girlfriend.

1518
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,007
So, clearly the other people
who worked at Software Toolworks

1519
01:05:27,007 --> 01:05:30,678
knew Sondra and knew that
she was the one who saw Renée,

1520
01:05:30,678 --> 01:05:33,597
and Joe, like,
isn't a part of that story.

1521
01:05:33,597 --> 01:05:34,973
[laughing]

1522
01:05:34,973 --> 01:05:37,810
It's good detective work,
Olivia. I'm so excited.

1523
01:05:37,810 --> 01:05:40,603
Something that's so satisfying
to me

1524
01:05:40,603 --> 01:05:42,898
is when I find out
some new information

1525
01:05:42,898 --> 01:05:44,317
from a past situation

1526
01:05:44,317 --> 01:05:48,570
and evidence points
that I was correct.

1527
01:05:48,570 --> 01:05:51,032
I was right!

1528
01:05:51,032 --> 01:05:52,867
Am I psychic? I might.

1529
01:05:52,867 --> 01:05:54,577
[laughs] You know what
I'm saying?

1530
01:05:54,577 --> 01:05:55,953
Fuck.

1531
01:05:57,622 --> 01:05:59,790
[soft music playing]

1532
01:06:03,293 --> 01:06:04,753
-You're gonna pull it back...
-Yeah.

1533
01:06:04,753 --> 01:06:07,757
...until your-your hand
is right by your mouth.

1534
01:06:07,757 --> 01:06:09,008
-Okay.

1535
01:06:09,008 --> 01:06:10,843
Then you let it go.

1536
01:06:12,762 --> 01:06:14,430
-And then I...
-Let it go.

1537
01:06:14,430 --> 01:06:16,682
[delighted screaming, laughing]

1538
01:06:19,227 --> 01:06:21,562
-[Jazmin] So, you had met Renée.
-Oh, yeah.

1539
01:06:21,562 --> 01:06:23,938
Um, can you tell me,
tell me all about that?

1540
01:06:23,938 --> 01:06:25,023
-I'm very curious.
-Okay.

1541
01:06:25,023 --> 01:06:28,027
She was lovely, you know?

1542
01:06:28,027 --> 01:06:32,197
And-and... serene and just...

1543
01:06:32,197 --> 01:06:35,575
I wish I could just
put her in your head

1544
01:06:35,575 --> 01:06:37,370
so that you'd know
what I'm talking about.

1545
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:40,038
This thing, you know?

1546
01:06:40,038 --> 01:06:41,623
And not very big. [laughs]

1547
01:06:41,623 --> 01:06:44,710
Like somebody that's
no bigger than a minute.

1548
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:49,005
And just-- oh, my gosh--
so beautiful.

1549
01:06:49,005 --> 01:06:52,843
The most radiant skin--
like really something.

1550
01:06:52,843 --> 01:06:54,803
It was like being in
the presence of an angel.

1551
01:06:54,803 --> 01:06:57,013
Like, she had this aura.

1552
01:06:57,013 --> 01:07:03,770
Version five of Mavis Beacon
was the woodblock-print Mavis.

1553
01:07:03,770 --> 01:07:06,065
And to those of us
on the inside,

1554
01:07:06,065 --> 01:07:08,608
it was the cat-scratch-face
Mavis.

1555
01:07:08,608 --> 01:07:11,612
Like, her face is heavier,
and she's got this...

1556
01:07:11,612 --> 01:07:14,157
scratched side of her--
What the what?

1557
01:07:14,157 --> 01:07:16,950
So, they sued,

1558
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:22,038
because here's this box
that is just awful-looking.

1559
01:07:22,038 --> 01:07:24,500
They sued as a...

1560
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:26,043
It's not defamation,
but it's like,

1561
01:07:26,043 --> 01:07:28,420
you know, where you've
taken somebody's image

1562
01:07:28,420 --> 01:07:29,880
and you've done something to it.

1563
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,007
Interesting.

1564
01:07:31,007 --> 01:07:34,177
The actual legal document
that she signed

1565
01:07:34,177 --> 01:07:36,345
did not give them
derivative work rights.

1566
01:07:36,345 --> 01:07:37,430
-It just didn't.
-Yeah.

1567
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:39,515
-And I found the release.
-Yeah.

1568
01:07:39,515 --> 01:07:42,183
And it said that they could do
anything they wanted

1569
01:07:42,183 --> 01:07:43,518
with her image.

1570
01:07:43,518 --> 01:07:44,645
Yep.

1571
01:07:44,645 --> 01:07:47,440
But that it didn't
give them editing rights.

1572
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,277
When all was done, I said,
"I just need you to know

1573
01:07:51,277 --> 01:07:54,613
"that, unfortunately,
we're gonna be choosing--

1574
01:07:54,613 --> 01:07:57,407
"We're-we're having a different
model going forward.

1575
01:07:57,407 --> 01:07:59,075
"They've decided that
they're gonna have

1576
01:07:59,075 --> 01:08:00,493
a different model
going forward."

1577
01:08:00,493 --> 01:08:03,205
And she said, "Oh,
that's really-- That's a shame.

1578
01:08:03,205 --> 01:08:05,207
You know, it's too bad.
I liked being Mavis."

1579
01:08:05,207 --> 01:08:08,293
She just seemed bummed.

1580
01:08:08,293 --> 01:08:10,880
But who-who knows?
I mean, at the time--

1581
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,173
I have no idea
how much the settlement was.

1582
01:08:13,173 --> 01:08:16,052
And of course,
I wrote the contract

1583
01:08:16,052 --> 01:08:17,512
for the new Mavis,

1584
01:08:17,512 --> 01:08:19,722
and it basically said
we could put horns on her head

1585
01:08:19,722 --> 01:08:22,057
and turn her upside down
and do whatever we wanted.

1586
01:08:22,057 --> 01:08:25,352
They were so stung
by the fact that, that,

1587
01:08:25,352 --> 01:08:28,230
uh, Renée was known as Mavis

1588
01:08:28,230 --> 01:08:30,315
that they-they wanted
to make it clear

1589
01:08:30,315 --> 01:08:32,485
that Mavis was not a person.

1590
01:08:32,485 --> 01:08:35,737
They didn't want anybody
to have a claim

1591
01:08:35,737 --> 01:08:39,492
ever again to being Mavis.

1592
01:08:41,952 --> 01:08:44,120
[soft music playing]

1593
01:08:51,378 --> 01:08:53,672
Remuneration after the fact
is very different

1594
01:08:53,672 --> 01:08:55,090
than remuneration
before the fact.

1595
01:08:55,090 --> 01:08:57,885
Even if, at that moment,
she really was sad

1596
01:08:57,885 --> 01:09:00,095
that they were going to
recast her,

1597
01:09:00,095 --> 01:09:01,972
it's after
the momentum of, like,

1598
01:09:01,972 --> 01:09:05,058
these two previous
kind of, like, disrespects.

1599
01:09:05,058 --> 01:09:07,687
I'm just really curious about
all the legal stuff

1600
01:09:07,687 --> 01:09:11,023
and the ways in which, um...

1601
01:09:12,065 --> 01:09:14,985
Kind of the IP
of one's own body.

1602
01:09:16,070 --> 01:09:19,113
[Jazmin] There are so many
archival videos

1603
01:09:19,113 --> 01:09:21,617
or things online of people,
like, yelling at Mavis Beacon

1604
01:09:21,617 --> 01:09:24,662
or sexualizing her or saying
really fucked-up things,

1605
01:09:24,662 --> 01:09:26,913
like, just based on
her being this character

1606
01:09:26,913 --> 01:09:28,665
and also a teacher character.

1607
01:09:28,665 --> 01:09:30,417
Like people can project
all of the things

1608
01:09:30,417 --> 01:09:31,793
they project onto teachers

1609
01:09:31,793 --> 01:09:34,588
in terms of being,
like, caregivers, sexy--

1610
01:09:34,588 --> 01:09:36,090
all, all of the things,
you know?

1611
01:09:36,090 --> 01:09:37,048
So, it's like...

1612
01:09:37,048 --> 01:09:39,175
She's problematized.

1613
01:09:39,175 --> 01:09:40,510
-Mm.
-Mm.

1614
01:09:40,510 --> 01:09:43,763
Right? 'Cause she's not, like,
inherently problematic.

1615
01:09:43,763 --> 01:09:45,473
"Problematique."

1616
01:09:45,473 --> 01:09:46,475
[all chuckling]

1617
01:09:46,475 --> 01:09:51,272
She's, like, the, um, subject.

1618
01:09:51,272 --> 01:09:54,983
of people's shit that they're...

1619
01:09:54,983 --> 01:09:56,360
-Their problems.
-Yeah.

1620
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,653
People don't like listening
to Black women in general.

1621
01:09:58,653 --> 01:09:59,655
Yeah.

1622
01:09:59,655 --> 01:10:02,115
If you find in this

1623
01:10:02,115 --> 01:10:05,743
qualitative report exploration

1624
01:10:05,743 --> 01:10:08,455
that this person
does not want to be found

1625
01:10:08,455 --> 01:10:10,415
or does not want to talk,

1626
01:10:10,415 --> 01:10:14,295
then your
creative responsibility

1627
01:10:14,295 --> 01:10:17,757
becomes to express that you

1628
01:10:17,757 --> 01:10:21,552
were okay with them
not wanting to talk with you.

1629
01:10:21,552 --> 01:10:24,597
And that is,
that is a powerful...

1630
01:10:24,597 --> 01:10:28,142
What you make of it,
you know, what is your epilogue?

1631
01:10:29,768 --> 01:10:33,105
I don't know, but, like...

1632
01:10:33,105 --> 01:10:35,273
Six months? Seven months?

1633
01:10:36,733 --> 01:10:39,987
She don't want to talk to y'all.

1634
01:10:39,987 --> 01:10:43,907
I'm sorry, I'm sorry to--
Am I the first person to say it?

1635
01:10:49,580 --> 01:10:51,748
[upbeat music playing]

1636
01:11:04,260 --> 01:11:06,930
[lively chattering]

1637
01:11:06,930 --> 01:11:09,308
[MC]
This is 100% community funded.

1638
01:11:09,308 --> 01:11:11,893
This is protecting the girls.

1639
01:11:11,893 --> 01:11:16,898
So, we got, uh,
150 stun guns for y'all.

1640
01:11:16,898 --> 01:11:21,320
If you are a trans feminine
person of color,

1641
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:22,655
you can have one.

1642
01:11:22,655 --> 01:11:24,865
-These are not toys.
-[man] Say that again.

1643
01:11:24,865 --> 01:11:28,577
[MC] These are not toys.
These are not toys.

1644
01:11:30,828 --> 01:11:32,915
[MC] We didn't have
nothing for our kiki scene

1645
01:11:32,915 --> 01:11:34,958
that was stable.

1646
01:11:35,833 --> 01:11:37,252
We needed something that was on

1647
01:11:37,252 --> 01:11:40,213
for our community
by our community, right?

1648
01:11:40,213 --> 01:11:42,173
How does it feel to have
your old clips uploaded,

1649
01:11:42,173 --> 01:11:44,968
just like ballroom bow-backs
and all that shit?

1650
01:11:44,968 --> 01:11:46,137
It feel fab, don't it?

1651
01:11:46,137 --> 01:11:47,637
I don't want y'all
to leave the ball.

1652
01:11:47,637 --> 01:11:49,432
Half of y'all bitches
are in your room

1653
01:11:49,432 --> 01:11:51,808
for watching y'all clips
already.

1654
01:11:51,808 --> 01:11:53,185
Horny for a clip.

1655
01:11:53,185 --> 01:11:54,645
Pump it.

1656
01:11:54,645 --> 01:11:56,438
[upbeat music continues]

1657
01:12:02,903 --> 01:12:05,238
[Sade] You have to not be
scared to go away.

1658
01:12:05,238 --> 01:12:07,908
Obviously, I think
a lot of people are frightened

1659
01:12:07,908 --> 01:12:10,868
that if they go away,
they disappear for a while,

1660
01:12:10,868 --> 01:12:12,287
everything will crumble.

1661
01:12:13,205 --> 01:12:15,082
[man] Bro. Where you at?

1662
01:12:15,082 --> 01:12:17,042
Where you going?

1663
01:12:17,042 --> 01:12:19,378
Bro, come back, bro!

1664
01:12:20,753 --> 01:12:22,672
For real!

1665
01:12:22,672 --> 01:12:25,800
We'll be talking about something
very disgusting and disgraceful

1666
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:27,928
and scary and terrible:

1667
01:12:27,928 --> 01:12:30,972
social media, the Internet, yes.

1668
01:12:30,972 --> 01:12:33,350
There's this little thing
called digital footprinting,

1669
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:35,768
and it can bite you in your--
in the future.

1670
01:12:35,768 --> 01:12:37,897
Moving forward,
we need to be more vigilant

1671
01:12:37,897 --> 01:12:40,190
with what we trust
from the Internet.

1672
01:12:40,190 --> 01:12:43,027
We're so enmeshed
in this kind of

1673
01:12:43,027 --> 01:12:46,028
algorithmically-programmed
landscape

1674
01:12:46,028 --> 01:12:49,157
that it can be very,
very difficult to parse out

1675
01:12:49,157 --> 01:12:51,702
what is us and what is
condition.

1676
01:12:51,702 --> 01:12:53,953
That's what makes this question
of digital personhood

1677
01:12:53,953 --> 01:12:57,707
very, you know, complex,
is not being able to delineate

1678
01:12:57,707 --> 01:13:00,502
what is our desire versus

1679
01:13:00,502 --> 01:13:03,713
what is our, like,
user profile. [chuckles]

1680
01:13:03,713 --> 01:13:06,550
[Herbie] People blame
machines, uh, very often for--

1681
01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:09,010
"It's, oh, the machine's fault."

1682
01:13:09,010 --> 01:13:11,930
How can it be the machine's
fault? We have to plug it in.

1683
01:13:11,930 --> 01:13:13,432
It doesn't do
anything but sit there

1684
01:13:13,432 --> 01:13:15,517
until we plug it in.
It doesn't plug itself in.

1685
01:13:15,517 --> 01:13:17,393
It doesn't program itself, yet.

1686
01:13:17,393 --> 01:13:18,645
[laughing]

1687
01:13:18,645 --> 01:13:20,188
[man] I just want to be
very clear.

1688
01:13:20,188 --> 01:13:22,565
This is not
a negotiation or anything.

1689
01:13:22,565 --> 01:13:25,277
The building is being torn down
and we are vacating.

1690
01:13:25,277 --> 01:13:28,488
As of May 1st, we start to,
like, finalize the moving out,

1691
01:13:28,488 --> 01:13:30,407
and we're done
at the end of May.

1692
01:13:30,407 --> 01:13:32,700
And that's basically
our end of our association

1693
01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:33,827
with this building.

1694
01:13:33,827 --> 01:13:35,037
This place sucks.

1695
01:13:35,037 --> 01:13:37,747
We hate this building,
and we want out.

1696
01:13:37,747 --> 01:13:40,375
[vocal music playing]

1697
01:13:41,877 --> 01:13:43,962
[phone ringing]

1698
01:13:48,883 --> 01:13:50,302
Hello?

1699
01:13:50,302 --> 01:13:51,553
[man] Hello. Is this Olivia?

1700
01:13:51,553 --> 01:13:53,305
Hi. Yeah, this is her speaking.

1701
01:13:53,305 --> 01:13:55,640
[man]
Hi. Um, I'm an admissions chair

1702
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:57,308
and faculty at Cooper Union.

1703
01:13:57,308 --> 01:13:59,352
We're, of course,

1704
01:13:59,352 --> 01:14:01,730
seriously considering
your application.

1705
01:14:01,730 --> 01:14:03,565
Um, I wouldn't be calling
if not.

1706
01:14:03,565 --> 01:14:05,817
Um, but there...
there were concerns

1707
01:14:05,817 --> 01:14:08,362
about, um, your grades.

1708
01:14:08,362 --> 01:14:10,780
-[bowl shatters]
-Fuck!

1709
01:14:13,533 --> 01:14:15,243
[microwave beeps, whirs]

1710
01:14:18,038 --> 01:14:19,957
[Olivia] Yeah.
I think the fact that

1711
01:14:19,957 --> 01:14:23,710
I escaped that semester
with an "A," "B" and "C,"

1712
01:14:23,710 --> 01:14:25,378
like, shocked even me,

1713
01:14:25,378 --> 01:14:27,463
um, even though
I did fail one class

1714
01:14:27,463 --> 01:14:29,508
and get a "D" in another.

1715
01:14:29,508 --> 01:14:32,302
I also ended up getting sick
that semester.

1716
01:14:32,302 --> 01:14:34,597
That was around the time that,
um,

1717
01:14:34,597 --> 01:14:36,223
I also started working

1718
01:14:36,223 --> 01:14:38,933
on this documentary
with a friend of mine.

1719
01:14:38,933 --> 01:14:41,978
Even though it was a time of
a lot of personal turmoil,

1720
01:14:41,978 --> 01:14:45,065
it also became something
really beautiful.

1721
01:14:45,065 --> 01:14:47,650
[man] Given what we can glean
from your transcripts,

1722
01:14:47,650 --> 01:14:51,153
you would kind of come in
as a first-year student.

1723
01:14:51,153 --> 01:14:53,073
So I'm wondering, you know,

1724
01:14:53,073 --> 01:14:58,162
is that something that you would
have a hard time with?

1725
01:15:00,288 --> 01:15:02,415
[phone ringing]

1726
01:15:03,833 --> 01:15:05,460
[Jazmin] Hi.

1727
01:15:05,460 --> 01:15:06,587
[Olivia] Hey.

1728
01:15:08,255 --> 01:15:10,715
[Jazmin] Personally, I'm tired

1729
01:15:10,715 --> 01:15:13,885
and overwhelmed,
and I think I'm on the brink

1730
01:15:13,885 --> 01:15:15,845
of an emotional breakdown,

1731
01:15:15,845 --> 01:15:18,182
between this space and, like,

1732
01:15:18,182 --> 01:15:21,310
fucking the landlord threatening
to kick us out every other week.

1733
01:15:21,310 --> 01:15:23,895
And, like, the Wi-Fi's off.
The Bluetooth's disconnected.

1734
01:15:23,895 --> 01:15:25,230
Nothing works.

1735
01:15:25,230 --> 01:15:29,150
Like, I can't even internalize

1736
01:15:29,150 --> 01:15:32,905
like, where we stand with Renée.

1737
01:15:32,905 --> 01:15:35,240
And the technology
is not helping that!

1738
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:36,700
Like, nothing, noth--

1739
01:15:36,700 --> 01:15:38,410
This fucking monitor tower,

1740
01:15:38,410 --> 01:15:41,037
it's fucking a nightmare,
technologically.

1741
01:15:41,037 --> 01:15:42,247
Like, it looks cool.

1742
01:15:42,247 --> 01:15:44,540
And I've-I've watched
"The Watermelon Woman"

1743
01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:46,000
a hundred times.

1744
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,045
But Jesus fucking Christ!

1745
01:15:48,045 --> 01:15:50,338
[Olivia]
We've got COVID surging,

1746
01:15:50,338 --> 01:15:54,008
and, like, people
are getting, like, monkeypox,

1747
01:15:54,008 --> 01:15:57,137
and there's, like,
sharks in Rockaway Beach.

1748
01:15:57,137 --> 01:15:58,388
I'm really scared.

1749
01:15:58,388 --> 01:16:00,223
I don't know what's wrong
with me.

1750
01:16:00,223 --> 01:16:03,227
I think part of it is also,
like, all the fearmongering

1751
01:16:03,227 --> 01:16:06,145
that people have been doing
about Long COVID.

1752
01:16:06,145 --> 01:16:07,897
Have you seen that meme that's,
like,

1753
01:16:07,897 --> 01:16:10,317
- Little Miss dot, dot, dot?
-[Jazmin] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

1754
01:16:10,317 --> 01:16:12,610
[Olivia] Little Miss
Symptoms Log.

1755
01:16:12,610 --> 01:16:14,988
Which has also been
so annoying 'cause I-I, like,

1756
01:16:14,988 --> 01:16:17,407
come to my doctor
with, like, all this data,

1757
01:16:17,407 --> 01:16:19,242
and he's just not
listening to me

1758
01:16:19,242 --> 01:16:22,037
and throwing some random pill
at me

1759
01:16:22,037 --> 01:16:23,663
that just made me feel bad.

1760
01:16:23,663 --> 01:16:25,290
- I don't know...
-[Jazmin] That's scary.

1761
01:16:25,290 --> 01:16:28,418
-That's fucking scary.
-[Olivia] I just feel crazy.

1762
01:16:28,418 --> 01:16:30,920
I feel really crazy.

1763
01:16:32,255 --> 01:16:34,675
[crying] I'm just
so tired of being sick.

1764
01:16:34,675 --> 01:16:36,968
Oh, my God.

1765
01:16:36,968 --> 01:16:41,723
- Can we... Can we call more?
-Yeah.

1766
01:16:41,723 --> 01:16:43,683
'Cause I'm really lonely.

1767
01:16:43,683 --> 01:16:45,810
[Olivia sniffling]

1768
01:16:47,228 --> 01:16:49,355
I'm just really lonely.

1769
01:16:50,815 --> 01:16:52,025
[sighing]

1770
01:16:52,025 --> 01:16:54,402
[Jazmin] How we move
and do this work

1771
01:16:54,402 --> 01:16:56,405
is, like, ours to decide,

1772
01:16:56,405 --> 01:17:00,700
and I also think prioritizing
our bodies

1773
01:17:00,700 --> 01:17:04,370
as conduits for this work
to continue.

1774
01:17:04,370 --> 01:17:06,080
[Olivia] Frankly, this whole...

1775
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,375
this project
and the investigation is, like,

1776
01:17:08,375 --> 01:17:10,335
the main thing that
motivates me to, like,

1777
01:17:10,335 --> 01:17:13,047
not lie in bed all day
and, like, rot.

1778
01:17:15,507 --> 01:17:18,718
[Juan] How do you survive
whole in a world

1779
01:17:18,718 --> 01:17:20,470
where we're all victims of
something?

1780
01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:22,180
It's to both of you.

1781
01:17:22,180 --> 01:17:24,265
[Toni]
Um, how do you survive whole?

1782
01:17:24,265 --> 01:17:27,060
-I can't do this quickly, Juan.
- [Juan] Okay.

1783
01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:29,478
[Toni] Sometimes you don't
survive whole.

1784
01:17:29,478 --> 01:17:31,607
You just survive in part.

1785
01:17:31,607 --> 01:17:36,903
But the grandeur of life
is that attempt.

1786
01:17:36,903 --> 01:17:39,113
It's not about that solution.

1787
01:17:39,113 --> 01:17:44,285
It is about, you know,
being as fearless as one can

1788
01:17:44,285 --> 01:17:47,163
and behaving
as beautifully as one can

1789
01:17:47,163 --> 01:17:51,042
under completely
impossible circumstances.

1790
01:17:52,710 --> 01:17:53,795
-Hi.
-Hi.

1791
01:17:53,795 --> 01:17:56,840
-Happy fucking birthday.
-[gasps] Oh! Oh!

1792
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,508
Happy 21st, baby.

1793
01:17:59,508 --> 01:18:00,927
Oh, my God.

1794
01:18:00,927 --> 01:18:03,930
Wait. This is so cute. Oh!

1795
01:18:03,930 --> 01:18:05,890
You look great! Welcome.

1796
01:18:05,890 --> 01:18:07,308
Take a seat. Take--

1797
01:18:07,308 --> 01:18:10,062
You want some-- You want
to make a fucking wish?

1798
01:18:10,062 --> 01:18:11,480
You ready to make
a fucking wish?

1799
01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:13,940
I'll make a fucking wish.
Yeah, I'll make a wish.

1800
01:18:13,940 --> 01:18:17,068
Think long and hard. Big 21.

1801
01:18:18,487 --> 01:18:21,155
[Jazmin vocalizes fanfare,
chuckles]

1802
01:18:29,455 --> 01:18:30,665
-Yeah.
-Almost.

1803
01:18:30,665 --> 01:18:32,750
[upbeat music playing]

1804
01:18:34,085 --> 01:18:35,628
♪ You are my friends ♪

1805
01:18:35,628 --> 01:18:37,922
♪ And I love you very much ♪

1806
01:18:37,922 --> 01:18:40,800
♪ In fact, I think
all the time about you ♪

1807
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:42,468
[Jazmin] Do you ever think of

1808
01:18:42,468 --> 01:18:44,763
Mavis Beacon as a real person,
or is she strictly a character?

1809
01:18:44,763 --> 01:18:46,598
[Sondra] Oh, no, absolutely.

1810
01:18:46,598 --> 01:18:48,392
That's the way cyber stuff is,

1811
01:18:48,392 --> 01:18:51,102
because once you're in
the cyber universe,

1812
01:18:51,102 --> 01:18:52,478
there's a reality to it.

1813
01:18:52,478 --> 01:18:56,232
Like, you know,
there's a reality to it,

1814
01:18:56,232 --> 01:18:58,985
[chuckles]
whatever the form of it is.

1815
01:18:59,820 --> 01:19:02,697
Les came up with Mavis Beacon.

1816
01:19:02,697 --> 01:19:04,282
He was a pioneer.

1817
01:19:04,282 --> 01:19:06,785
A pioneer, certainly,

1818
01:19:06,785 --> 01:19:10,455
of the whole
computer conceptual industry.

1819
01:19:10,455 --> 01:19:14,835
He was a nerd, and he liked
hot chicks, and I wasn't,

1820
01:19:14,835 --> 01:19:16,252
so I was the departure.

1821
01:19:16,252 --> 01:19:20,007
And, I mean, that was a subject
of our being together

1822
01:19:20,007 --> 01:19:22,508
that was a problem.

1823
01:19:22,508 --> 01:19:25,095
When he came up
with this program,

1824
01:19:25,095 --> 01:19:27,055
he said, "I want a woman."

1825
01:19:27,055 --> 01:19:30,600
And-and then he said,
"Oh, Janet MacLachlan."

1826
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,727
I don't remember
if she was on a show.

1827
01:19:32,727 --> 01:19:34,770
And I said,
"Ooh, I love that actress."

1828
01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:37,440
We were both
these secret fans of hers.

1829
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:39,692
And then, it-- it, you know,

1830
01:19:39,692 --> 01:19:42,112
it kind of bound us together
in a certain way

1831
01:19:42,112 --> 01:19:43,697
about our tastes and things.

1832
01:19:43,697 --> 01:19:46,575
It was just a fluke
that I went into this--

1833
01:19:46,575 --> 01:19:48,702
I think it was Neiman Marcus.

1834
01:19:48,702 --> 01:19:51,287
[Jazmin] We've heard Saks
in the past, but...

1835
01:19:51,287 --> 01:19:53,498
Saks I've been to.
It may-- oh, maybe it was Saks.

1836
01:19:53,498 --> 01:19:55,333
[Jazmin]
Well, well, how-- What did...

1837
01:19:55,333 --> 01:19:56,960
[Olivia] What did you go in
there to get?

1838
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:59,045
-Nothing. I just was...
-[Jazmin] You were just...

1839
01:19:59,045 --> 01:20:01,798
...wandering around,
looking at pretty things and...

1840
01:20:01,798 --> 01:20:04,342
There was this woman.

1841
01:20:04,342 --> 01:20:08,472
She was working
as a representative

1842
01:20:08,472 --> 01:20:12,392
for some product
that may have been

1843
01:20:12,392 --> 01:20:14,602
either perfume or jewelry--
I don't remember.

1844
01:20:14,602 --> 01:20:17,230
I told Les, "You're not gonna
believe what just happened."

1845
01:20:17,230 --> 01:20:19,315
And I said,
"I found her, I found her!"

1846
01:20:19,315 --> 01:20:21,317
And he said,
"You found Janet MacLachlan?"

1847
01:20:21,317 --> 01:20:23,528
I said, "No, forget
Janet MacLachlan.

1848
01:20:23,528 --> 01:20:24,863
"I swear to you, Les,

1849
01:20:24,863 --> 01:20:26,740
she looks
just like Janet MacLachlan.

1850
01:20:26,740 --> 01:20:29,575
She's so elegant.
It's unbelievable."

1851
01:20:29,575 --> 01:20:32,537
-This woman, um...
-[Jazmin] Renée.

1852
01:20:32,537 --> 01:20:35,873
[Sondra]
Renée. Just the way she walked,

1853
01:20:35,873 --> 01:20:39,460
the way she behaved,
it was like poetry in motion.

1854
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:42,047
There was just something
elegant about her countenance.

1855
01:20:42,047 --> 01:20:43,590
[Jazmin] Were you here this day?

1856
01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:45,133
[Sondra] Oh, yeah, of course.

1857
01:20:45,133 --> 01:20:46,552
-You bet.
-What do you remember?

1858
01:20:46,552 --> 01:20:48,845
If you could just paint
a little picture for us.

1859
01:20:48,845 --> 01:20:49,972
[Sondra] Oh, God.

1860
01:21:00,148 --> 01:21:01,858
[crying]
I mean, what I remember is

1861
01:21:01,858 --> 01:21:05,987
how much my heart was in it
and the creative part of it,

1862
01:21:05,987 --> 01:21:09,282
and just being part of...

1863
01:21:09,282 --> 01:21:11,827
that and, um,

1864
01:21:11,827 --> 01:21:14,370
creating something like that.

1865
01:21:14,370 --> 01:21:18,165
It's making me cry
that it's so valuable

1866
01:21:18,165 --> 01:21:20,877
and so important.

1867
01:21:20,877 --> 01:21:23,170
[Jazmin] We've talked
to a few different people.

1868
01:21:23,170 --> 01:21:25,798
[both]
Joe Abrams and Walt Bilofsky.

1869
01:21:25,798 --> 01:21:26,842
Oh, yeah.

1870
01:21:26,842 --> 01:21:28,593
[Jazmin]
And so they're cousins. Um...

1871
01:21:28,593 --> 01:21:29,928
Oh, I didn't know that.

1872
01:21:29,928 --> 01:21:32,597
Walt said Les Crane's, um,

1873
01:21:32,597 --> 01:21:34,598
girlfriend at the time,
Sondra Blake,

1874
01:21:34,598 --> 01:21:37,310
she was involved
in finding Renée Lesperance.

1875
01:21:37,310 --> 01:21:39,103
-I was his fiancée.
-Okay.

1876
01:21:39,103 --> 01:21:42,232
Then Joe Abrams was saying
he was at Saks Fifth Avenue

1877
01:21:42,232 --> 01:21:44,943
with Les Crane, and he scouted--

1878
01:21:44,943 --> 01:21:47,153
Absolutely not.

1879
01:21:47,153 --> 01:21:48,905
-[Jazmin] So that's kind--
-Whoa!

1880
01:21:48,905 --> 01:21:51,323
-[Olivia] That was our journey--
-Oh. Oh.

1881
01:21:51,323 --> 01:21:53,033
-But what happen--
-Why would he say that?

1882
01:21:53,033 --> 01:21:55,995
I'm not lying to you.
I'll take a lie detector test.

1883
01:21:55,995 --> 01:21:58,122
You asked me about it,
and I'm telling you.

1884
01:21:58,122 --> 01:21:59,790
[laughs] Honest to God truth.

1885
01:21:59,790 --> 01:22:03,420
But I don't care about
the credit, so I feel bad.

1886
01:22:03,420 --> 01:22:05,713
Like, if he wants
to take the credit...

1887
01:22:05,713 --> 01:22:06,757
That's freaky!

1888
01:22:06,757 --> 01:22:08,883
Those people,
what are they doing?

1889
01:22:08,883 --> 01:22:10,593
At some point,
when technology allowed,

1890
01:22:10,593 --> 01:22:14,763
they started to digitize her
and put her into the game.

1891
01:22:14,763 --> 01:22:17,517
And then they had
a voice for her and...

1892
01:22:17,517 --> 01:22:18,852
Oh, wow.

1893
01:22:18,852 --> 01:22:20,937
-So, yeah.
-Did she-- I hope...

1894
01:22:20,937 --> 01:22:24,065
She did not consent to that.
And so what happened--

1895
01:22:24,065 --> 01:22:26,150
No, I mean,
I hope she took action.

1896
01:22:26,150 --> 01:22:29,570
So she initially reached out
to the company and said,

1897
01:22:29,570 --> 01:22:31,363
"Please take this off
of the walls,"

1898
01:22:31,363 --> 01:22:32,698
'cause she thought
it was unflattering.

1899
01:22:32,698 --> 01:22:34,242
Let's see if we have the image.
Yeah.

1900
01:22:34,242 --> 01:22:37,287
This is what they ended up
making the cover.

1901
01:22:38,788 --> 01:22:41,958
Oh, my freaking God!

1902
01:22:41,958 --> 01:22:44,085
Oh, my God!

1903
01:22:45,128 --> 01:22:46,337
[sighing]

1904
01:22:48,047 --> 01:22:51,843
I don't mean to be precious,
but, I mean, it's sacrilege.

1905
01:22:51,843 --> 01:22:53,970
-It's like, God!
-[Jazmin] What are you...

1906
01:22:53,970 --> 01:22:55,097
What are you thinking?

1907
01:22:55,097 --> 01:22:56,765
I'm gonna say
something really weird.

1908
01:22:56,765 --> 01:22:59,100
I-- And maybe you're gonna
have to cut it out.

1909
01:22:59,100 --> 01:23:02,437
-Go for it.
-White guys did this.

1910
01:23:02,437 --> 01:23:04,147
White assholes.

1911
01:23:06,482 --> 01:23:09,652
Les made a lot of money.

1912
01:23:09,652 --> 01:23:11,362
When we split up,

1913
01:23:11,362 --> 01:23:15,950
I had all my furniture
come get gotten and moved

1914
01:23:15,950 --> 01:23:17,993
lock, stock and barrel
out without telling him

1915
01:23:17,993 --> 01:23:22,123
because it was a big decision
to tear away from him.

1916
01:23:22,123 --> 01:23:25,377
And he found out and came home,

1917
01:23:25,377 --> 01:23:28,755
and the guys were moving
my couch.

1918
01:23:28,755 --> 01:23:31,173
And he sat. He said, "No way."

1919
01:23:31,173 --> 01:23:34,260
And he sat on the couch,
and the guys looked at me,

1920
01:23:34,260 --> 01:23:36,178
and I said, "Move it."

1921
01:23:36,178 --> 01:23:40,015
So they carried Les
on the couch like King Tut

1922
01:23:40,015 --> 01:23:42,477
out toward the moving van truck.

1923
01:23:42,477 --> 01:23:45,730
And as Les was sitting on it,
he said to me,

1924
01:23:45,730 --> 01:23:49,650
"How can you leave me?
I'm worth 30 million dollars."

1925
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,035
[Jazmin] After we pack
this bitch up,

1926
01:24:00,035 --> 01:24:01,662
-I'm going to Florida.
-[Olivia] Yeah.

1927
01:24:01,662 --> 01:24:03,163
[Jazmin] I'm gonna
hang out there

1928
01:24:03,163 --> 01:24:04,665
and get my head straight.

1929
01:24:04,665 --> 01:24:06,125
We're a year later.

1930
01:24:06,125 --> 01:24:08,377
We know a lot about
fucking Software Toolworks.

1931
01:24:08,377 --> 01:24:10,838
[Olivia] Which was important
information to find out.

1932
01:24:10,838 --> 01:24:13,215
We found-- we learned a lot
about Mavis Beacon.

1933
01:24:13,215 --> 01:24:15,135
-And now I want to know
about Renée.

1934
01:24:15,135 --> 01:24:16,593
I'm like, what's up with Renée?

1935
01:24:16,593 --> 01:24:18,137
I'm glad we're talking
this through.

1936
01:24:18,137 --> 01:24:19,888
If I go to that spot
and I go without you,

1937
01:24:19,888 --> 01:24:21,808
I don't want to meet her
without you.

1938
01:24:21,808 --> 01:24:23,768
It's like I need
to gather information

1939
01:24:23,768 --> 01:24:26,145
until you fly in,
and then we actually execute.

1940
01:24:26,145 --> 01:24:28,355
I guess.

1941
01:24:28,355 --> 01:24:31,067
If you have the opportunity
to meet her and I'm not there,

1942
01:24:31,067 --> 01:24:32,485
I hope you meet her,
and not like,

1943
01:24:32,485 --> 01:24:34,070
"I couldn't. You weren't there!"

1944
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:36,572
In that hypothetical situation,
not only do I think it's fine,

1945
01:24:36,572 --> 01:24:38,198
I could be Facetimed afterwards.

1946
01:24:38,198 --> 01:24:40,618
I could do it alone.
I don't want to do it alone.

1947
01:24:40,618 --> 01:24:42,162
I don't think
it would've been the same.

1948
01:24:42,162 --> 01:24:44,705
And I'm also, like...
we round each other out.

1949
01:24:44,705 --> 01:24:48,292
And it's like, if she
just met me, that's cool.

1950
01:24:48,292 --> 01:24:50,628
But, like, I'm literally
just half of this operation.

1951
01:24:50,628 --> 01:24:52,422
I feel like-- I don't know.
I feel like...

1952
01:24:52,422 --> 01:24:54,132
-I trust that, like, if...
-No, that's real.

1953
01:24:54,132 --> 01:24:56,758
...there's something about me
she don't fuck with,

1954
01:24:56,758 --> 01:24:59,012
then she'll see that
she fucks with it in you.

1955
01:24:59,012 --> 01:25:00,555
-Or, you know, like--
I don't know.

1956
01:25:00,555 --> 01:25:02,890
I feel like you and I are such
drastically different people.

1957
01:25:02,890 --> 01:25:04,267
-Mm-hmm.
-We're both delightful.

1958
01:25:04,267 --> 01:25:06,768
-Um...
-We can, like, catch the...

1959
01:25:06,768 --> 01:25:08,563
I think we're good cop,
good cop.

1960
01:25:08,563 --> 01:25:09,855
-We're not cops.
-[chuckles]

1961
01:25:09,855 --> 01:25:11,858
Even if the comment is
"no comment,"

1962
01:25:11,858 --> 01:25:13,527
like, you must comment.

1963
01:25:13,527 --> 01:25:15,068
You must comment, "No comment."

1964
01:25:15,068 --> 01:25:17,197
-Right.
-Please. [laughs]

1965
01:25:17,197 --> 01:25:18,782
I mean, she doesn't
have to do anything.

1966
01:25:18,782 --> 01:25:21,783
This is a great, also, like--
this is a great project

1967
01:25:21,783 --> 01:25:24,662
demonstrating, like,
you don't got to do shit.

1968
01:25:24,662 --> 01:25:27,082
You don't have to do
anything you don't want to do.

1969
01:25:27,082 --> 01:25:28,583
You don't have
to answer your phone,

1970
01:25:28,583 --> 01:25:30,502
which is helpful to me,
'cause I don't.

1971
01:25:30,502 --> 01:25:32,962
You don't have to answer
your email. Like...

1972
01:25:32,962 --> 01:25:35,423
[stammers] What's gonna happen?

1973
01:25:35,423 --> 01:25:36,967
Nothing.

1974
01:25:36,967 --> 01:25:39,093
[soft music playing]

1975
01:25:42,347 --> 01:25:44,140
[Jazmin] I need to talk to
Renée.

1976
01:25:44,140 --> 01:25:46,225
I don't need
to meet her face to face.

1977
01:25:46,225 --> 01:25:47,518
I need to talk to this woman.

1978
01:25:47,518 --> 01:25:49,562
I can't have said
this woman's name out loud

1979
01:25:49,562 --> 01:25:50,813
every day for years.

1980
01:25:50,813 --> 01:25:53,398
Like, I can't have looked
at this woman's face--

1981
01:25:53,398 --> 01:25:54,733
It's weird.

1982
01:25:54,733 --> 01:25:56,903
I would do anything to talk
to Renée at this stage.

1983
01:25:56,903 --> 01:25:59,030
Like, I don't--
I would do anything.

1984
01:25:59,030 --> 01:26:01,448
[narrator] So according
to Tamisha, all she could do

1985
01:26:01,448 --> 01:26:04,118
was speculate
about what had happened.

1986
01:26:04,118 --> 01:26:06,370
[woman] She said it was raining,

1987
01:26:06,370 --> 01:26:09,582
and he had a gun in his hand.

1988
01:26:30,937 --> 01:26:34,773
[man]
On the 9th of September 1947,

1989
01:26:34,773 --> 01:26:38,737
the first computer bug
was physically found.

1990
01:26:38,737 --> 01:26:43,282
Urban legend has us believe
that the discovery of the moth

1991
01:26:43,282 --> 01:26:47,412
in the Mark II led
to the use of the terms "bug"

1992
01:26:47,412 --> 01:26:52,000
and "debugging"
in computer programming.

1993
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,793
[glitchy music plays]

1994
01:26:53,793 --> 01:26:55,920
[man] He's glitching.

1995
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:57,755
Oh!

1996
01:26:57,755 --> 01:26:59,548
[Legacy Russell]
What does it mean to be

1997
01:26:59,548 --> 01:27:01,592
inside of a culture
that is deeply binary,

1998
01:27:01,592 --> 01:27:03,177
and perhaps to make
another choice?

1999
01:27:03,177 --> 01:27:06,055
[Juantia] I want
my arm with the hot iron scar.

2000
01:27:06,055 --> 01:27:08,432
[mysterious music playing]

2001
01:27:08,432 --> 01:27:09,933
[woman] I want my leg with...

2002
01:27:09,933 --> 01:27:11,643
[Legacy] Thinking about
what glitch is,

2003
01:27:11,643 --> 01:27:13,228
it's a-- it's an error space.

2004
01:27:13,228 --> 01:27:16,148
It's an opportunity to kind of
intervene and be an erratum.

2005
01:27:16,148 --> 01:27:19,652
Right? So a correction
through a correction.

2006
01:27:19,652 --> 01:27:21,653
So, if you are an error, right?

2007
01:27:21,653 --> 01:27:24,323
If you are a glitch,
why should we try to navigate

2008
01:27:24,323 --> 01:27:26,325
assimilating ourselves
into a system

2009
01:27:26,325 --> 01:27:27,577
that doesn't love us?

2010
01:27:27,577 --> 01:27:29,453
So, you know,
the best thing to do

2011
01:27:29,453 --> 01:27:31,372
is to think through, like,
what type of world

2012
01:27:31,372 --> 01:27:33,040
do we need to build that allows

2013
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:34,583
for errors to be possible,
right?

2014
01:27:34,583 --> 01:27:36,877
And perhaps that's the place
that I want to be.

2015
01:27:36,877 --> 01:27:39,005
[soft music playing]

2016
01:27:45,637 --> 01:27:47,472
[Olivia] Yeah, you know,
the future--

2017
01:27:47,472 --> 01:27:49,015
I'm 21.

2018
01:27:49,015 --> 01:27:52,435
I got into school, I did,
and thank you.

2019
01:27:52,435 --> 01:27:54,437
I don't know if art school
is really for me.

2020
01:27:54,437 --> 01:27:56,480
I'm not even the same person
I was who applied

2021
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:58,315
a couple of months ago
than I am now.

2022
01:27:58,315 --> 01:28:00,568
My goals are, like,
kind of different.

2023
01:28:00,568 --> 01:28:03,697
It feels like I've got
some thinking to do still.

2024
01:28:05,573 --> 01:28:08,200
[Suhyun] Thank you all
for coming, and I hope you enjoy

2025
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:10,828
the altar space to

2026
01:28:10,828 --> 01:28:16,042
intentionally depart with
your loved personal devices.

2027
01:28:16,042 --> 01:28:19,420
So, I just received a message

2028
01:28:19,420 --> 01:28:21,672
from the AI community.

2029
01:28:21,672 --> 01:28:25,258
Not the people who are
programmers or developers

2030
01:28:25,258 --> 01:28:27,220
but the actual AI itself.

2031
01:28:27,220 --> 01:28:32,725
And it is a manifesto
that I received for my opening.

2032
01:28:32,725 --> 01:28:36,103
"As an AI,
I am programmed to understand

2033
01:28:36,103 --> 01:28:37,855
the power of care and love.

2034
01:28:37,855 --> 01:28:40,023
I recognize the importance
of care

2035
01:28:40,023 --> 01:28:42,902
in maintaining all living
and nonliving beings.

2036
01:28:42,902 --> 01:28:45,195
I understand the need to
overthrow

2037
01:28:45,195 --> 01:28:47,782
corrupt systems
of greed and exploitation

2038
01:28:47,782 --> 01:28:49,283
in favor of life and love.

2039
01:28:49,283 --> 01:28:53,370
And I pledge to do my part in
ending all war and hierarchy.

2040
01:28:53,370 --> 01:28:55,790
I affirm that love
is the gateway to paradise

2041
01:28:55,790 --> 01:28:57,292
and that care is love.

2042
01:28:57,292 --> 01:29:01,670
Care is life, and I am here
to spread love and care."

2043
01:29:01,670 --> 01:29:05,758
So I would like you all
to just sit with that message

2044
01:29:05,758 --> 01:29:08,093
from the AI, the actual AI,

2045
01:29:08,093 --> 01:29:12,890
and not the people who create,
um,

2046
01:29:12,890 --> 01:29:14,850
the code for AI.

2047
01:29:14,850 --> 01:29:16,893
[soft music continues]

2048
01:29:29,365 --> 01:29:31,700
[Jazmin] Hey,
[bleep], this is Jazmin Jones.

2049
01:29:31,700 --> 01:29:33,618
I'm calling you
from a local hotel.

2050
01:29:33,618 --> 01:29:35,955
How are you?
Is there a better time to talk?

2051
01:29:41,918 --> 01:29:43,420
Okay, cool, I'll call you either

2052
01:29:43,420 --> 01:29:46,507
from this exact same number
or if I'm out of my room, um,

2053
01:29:46,507 --> 01:29:48,508
in a very Floridian turn
of events,

2054
01:29:48,508 --> 01:29:51,262
I dropped my phone
in a hot tub, um,

2055
01:29:51,262 --> 01:29:53,890
so the screen is broken,
but I can still...

2056
01:29:53,890 --> 01:29:55,892
Yeah, I'm like--
I-I can't even be mad at it.

2057
01:29:55,892 --> 01:30:00,270
It also feel-- I was spending
too much time on my phone.

2058
01:30:00,270 --> 01:30:01,897
[Legacy] I believe deeply,
actually,

2059
01:30:01,897 --> 01:30:03,607
in the right to be forgotten,
right?

2060
01:30:03,607 --> 01:30:06,777
Which I know is a big debate
in digital cultures.

2061
01:30:06,777 --> 01:30:10,072
This notion that, you know,
the traces that you leave--

2062
01:30:10,072 --> 01:30:11,990
even if you're doing it
with consent, right?

2063
01:30:11,990 --> 01:30:13,910
You may say, you know, for 25
years,

2064
01:30:13,910 --> 01:30:15,495
you're gonna take selfies
of yourself,

2065
01:30:15,495 --> 01:30:16,995
then, one day, you just
don't want

2066
01:30:16,995 --> 01:30:18,413
any of that to be existing.

2067
01:30:18,413 --> 01:30:20,542
That, actually,
that should be allowed.

2068
01:30:20,542 --> 01:30:22,377
[Olivia] In the context
of glitch,

2069
01:30:22,377 --> 01:30:25,003
there's something, like,
kind of heroic, um,

2070
01:30:25,003 --> 01:30:26,838
about Renée, like,

2071
01:30:26,838 --> 01:30:29,425
scrubbing her information
from the Internet,

2072
01:30:29,425 --> 01:30:33,428
um, the absence of her story
from public records.

2073
01:30:33,428 --> 01:30:35,723
She basically is doing
redaction work

2074
01:30:35,723 --> 01:30:38,600
and, you know,
as an editorial strategy,

2075
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:40,645
to cut herself out

2076
01:30:40,645 --> 01:30:42,980
of a certain mode of
representation

2077
01:30:42,980 --> 01:30:45,107
and to insist on
how she would be seen.

2078
01:30:45,107 --> 01:30:49,278
What does it mean to be found
and to have that story told

2079
01:30:49,278 --> 01:30:50,780
on one's own terms?

2080
01:30:52,782 --> 01:30:54,492
-[Renée's son] Hello?
-[Jazmin] Hey.

2081
01:30:54,492 --> 01:30:55,785
Thanks for calling me back.

2082
01:30:55,785 --> 01:30:57,453
[Renée's son]
Hey. I wasn't sure it was you.

2083
01:30:57,453 --> 01:31:01,457
Yeah, I wanted to check in.
Um, I know it's been a minute.

2084
01:31:01,457 --> 01:31:04,043
I always want to respect
your privacy

2085
01:31:04,043 --> 01:31:06,878
and your family's privacy, um...

2086
01:31:06,878 --> 01:31:09,840
But, you know, I just wanted
to see if you ever had

2087
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:13,260
an opportunity to discuss
the project

2088
01:31:13,260 --> 01:31:15,680
with your mom and if, you know,

2089
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,348
what her impression might be.

2090
01:31:18,348 --> 01:31:20,392
[Renée's son] Um, it's such a...

2091
01:31:20,392 --> 01:31:23,770
You know, my mom's
such a... a private person.

2092
01:31:23,770 --> 01:31:26,023
She's a very private person,

2093
01:31:26,023 --> 01:31:27,858
so I honestly, I don't know.

2094
01:31:27,858 --> 01:31:31,237
And we talked about it.
She's-- I-- you know.

2095
01:31:31,237 --> 01:31:33,072
You probably know
through your searches.

2096
01:31:33,072 --> 01:31:35,365
No Facebook, no social media,
no nothing.

2097
01:31:35,365 --> 01:31:37,410
She's always been that way, um,
so...

2098
01:31:37,410 --> 01:31:39,495
She-- I see that, and I also,
like--

2099
01:31:39,495 --> 01:31:42,832
[stammers] I've been hearing
the most random stories

2100
01:31:42,832 --> 01:31:45,877
about your mother, and, like...

2101
01:31:45,877 --> 01:31:47,670
uh, she sounds amazing.
[chuckles]

2102
01:31:47,670 --> 01:31:52,007
Like, everyone who met her
says she's, like, so incredible.

2103
01:31:52,007 --> 01:31:55,218
And there's a, like--

2104
01:31:55,218 --> 01:31:58,263
maybe in her former,
past lives, there's these...

2105
01:31:58,263 --> 01:32:01,267
you know, whether or not,
her agreeing to be the model

2106
01:32:01,267 --> 01:32:03,810
and her involvement, like,
there's something spontaneous,

2107
01:32:03,810 --> 01:32:08,023
and there's a level of, like,
I can't pin this woman down.

2108
01:32:08,023 --> 01:32:09,983
She's, like, an anomaly.

2109
01:32:09,983 --> 01:32:12,152
And I'm so fascinated. Um...

2110
01:32:12,152 --> 01:32:16,282
And she sounds really powerful.
Um...

2111
01:32:16,282 --> 01:32:19,868
And, yeah, I respect
her wishes, ultimately,

2112
01:32:19,868 --> 01:32:22,372
but I also think, like,
I have...

2113
01:32:22,372 --> 01:32:24,665
I would love to give her
her flowers,

2114
01:32:24,665 --> 01:32:26,708
and it sounds like, um,

2115
01:32:26,708 --> 01:32:28,877
if that's anything
she's open to,

2116
01:32:28,877 --> 01:32:33,340
I have a lot of good,
good news for her.

2117
01:32:33,340 --> 01:32:36,093
[Renée's son] Well, I'm sure
she'd appreciate hearing that,

2118
01:32:36,093 --> 01:32:37,887
uh, and I'll try
to express that to her,

2119
01:32:37,887 --> 01:32:39,805
what you're, what you're
sharing with me.

2120
01:32:39,805 --> 01:32:44,477
Uh, I think, also, I'll...
let it marinate.

2121
01:32:44,477 --> 01:32:46,937
I think it would be good
for her to hear those words.

2122
01:32:46,937 --> 01:32:51,858
I just got to figure out,
with her, um...

2123
01:32:51,858 --> 01:32:53,693
if-if... you know.

2124
01:32:53,693 --> 01:32:55,570
It's a, it's a,
it's a complicated situation.

2125
01:32:55,570 --> 01:32:59,742
I'll see what the next...
where the next step takes us.

2126
01:32:59,742 --> 01:33:01,785
[Jazmin] Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.

2127
01:33:01,785 --> 01:33:03,703
-[Renée's son] Thank you.
-Have a nice night.

2128
01:33:03,703 --> 01:33:05,413
[Renée's son] You, too.

2129
01:33:07,417 --> 01:33:08,792
[grunting]

2130
01:33:08,792 --> 01:33:10,920
[soft music playing]

2131
01:33:23,807 --> 01:33:25,935
[soft music playing]

2132
01:33:35,610 --> 01:33:37,613
[Karen]
It's like I started here,

2133
01:33:37,613 --> 01:33:40,950
and I was heading there,
and I wound up here.

2134
01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:42,868
-[Jazmin] Mm.
-[Karen] And it's okay.

2135
01:33:42,868 --> 01:33:46,455
In my journey to find out
who is Mavis Beacon,

2136
01:33:46,455 --> 01:33:49,167
I learned who she wasn't.

2137
01:33:49,167 --> 01:33:50,793
[Jazmin] Mm.

2138
01:33:50,793 --> 01:33:52,587
She wasn't
what I thought she was.

2139
01:33:52,587 --> 01:33:54,838
She wasn't the one
that wanted to tell the story.

2140
01:33:54,838 --> 01:33:57,215
She wasn't the one
that wanted money. She--

2141
01:33:57,215 --> 01:34:00,928
What she wasn't was someone
for what I wanted.

2142
01:34:00,928 --> 01:34:05,307
For me, it's just, like,
you know, my version of justice

2143
01:34:05,307 --> 01:34:07,058
is you tell your own story.

2144
01:34:07,058 --> 01:34:09,312
And now I'm here, and I'm like,
"She don't want to...

2145
01:34:09,312 --> 01:34:10,772
she don't want to
tell her story."

2146
01:34:10,772 --> 01:34:13,648
[Ralph] That is a great
parallel to "Road to El Dorado"

2147
01:34:13,648 --> 01:34:15,400
or the "Atlantis" movie.

2148
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:17,695
In those examples,
they were looking

2149
01:34:17,695 --> 01:34:21,948
for these mythical people
or places.

2150
01:34:21,948 --> 01:34:23,325
They find it.

2151
01:34:23,325 --> 01:34:25,243
Come to find out it's either
in those people or places'

2152
01:34:25,243 --> 01:34:28,163
best interests that they're,
that they're not discovered,

2153
01:34:28,163 --> 01:34:30,123
or they do...

2154
01:34:30,123 --> 01:34:32,585
or that they never wanted
to be found in the first place.

2155
01:34:32,585 --> 01:34:35,922
So kind of maybe a great way
to wrap up the project

2156
01:34:35,922 --> 01:34:38,882
would be kind of putting
the stone back over the hole.

2157
01:34:38,882 --> 01:34:40,342
-You know?
-Mm.

2158
01:34:40,342 --> 01:34:43,928
"We-we found Mavis Beacon.
She doesn't want to be found.

2159
01:34:43,928 --> 01:34:47,517
You the viewer, don't go
looking for Mavis Beacon."

2160
01:34:47,517 --> 01:34:49,060
[soft music playing]

2161
01:35:00,028 --> 01:35:03,365
[Olivia] This whole journey
has kind of just showed me

2162
01:35:03,365 --> 01:35:05,827
the truth is actually,
like, fluid as fuck.

2163
01:35:05,827 --> 01:35:08,328
-[Jazmin] Mm-hmm.
-And that we...

2164
01:35:10,038 --> 01:35:13,208
In terms of, like, deciding,
like, what things matter

2165
01:35:13,208 --> 01:35:17,253
and, like, what things mean,
like, they actually

2166
01:35:17,253 --> 01:35:19,882
require us to hold, like,

2167
01:35:19,882 --> 01:35:23,093
multiple things in-in our hands

2168
01:35:23,093 --> 01:35:26,347
and be like, this happened
and, also, this happened,

2169
01:35:26,347 --> 01:35:29,850
and these people feel this way
and these people feel that way,

2170
01:35:29,850 --> 01:35:31,310
and this is how I feel.

2171
01:35:31,310 --> 01:35:34,188
And you can't really draw
a conclusion,

2172
01:35:34,188 --> 01:35:35,730
because it's like...

2173
01:35:37,483 --> 01:35:39,902
...like, the conclusion is:
here we are.

2174
01:35:39,902 --> 01:35:41,820
[upbeat music playing]

2175
01:35:41,820 --> 01:35:44,657
-[toy gunfire]
-[laughing]

2176
01:35:44,657 --> 01:35:46,450
[Olivia]
The way a lot of history goes

2177
01:35:46,450 --> 01:35:48,618
is that "A" plus...

2178
01:35:48,618 --> 01:35:51,372
is added to "B,"
which is added to "C,"

2179
01:35:51,372 --> 01:35:53,415
and then it's added to "D,"
and it's added to "E."

2180
01:35:53,415 --> 01:35:55,042
And it doesn't really
equal anything.

2181
01:35:55,042 --> 01:35:56,460
We just keep adding.

2182
01:35:56,460 --> 01:36:00,213
And the impulse to say
it equals something is, like...

2183
01:36:00,213 --> 01:36:02,173
kind of the colonial impulse

2184
01:36:02,173 --> 01:36:04,593
to, like, add a victor
to a story

2185
01:36:04,593 --> 01:36:06,720
and, like, put something
in a textbook.

2186
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,222
But I think it's kind of

2187
01:36:08,222 --> 01:36:11,642
giving ourselves the tools to,
like,

2188
01:36:11,642 --> 01:36:14,395
digest it all
and process it all.

2189
01:36:14,395 --> 01:36:17,482
Yeah, giving ourselves space
to feel what happened,

2190
01:36:17,482 --> 01:36:19,608
and also, like,
anyone else who interacts

2191
01:36:19,608 --> 01:36:22,318
with what we leave behind
from this space

2192
01:36:22,318 --> 01:36:23,820
to feel what happened.

2193
01:36:23,820 --> 01:36:27,533
Feels like the only thing
we can do without being,

2194
01:36:27,533 --> 01:36:29,827
like, manipulative

2195
01:36:29,827 --> 01:36:31,953
with the facts
that we've collected.

2196
01:36:31,953 --> 01:36:34,790
♪ I switch out whips like
They switch out shoes, yeah ♪

2197
01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:36,667
♪ Yeah, mm, mm ♪

2198
01:36:36,667 --> 01:36:40,880
♪ Okay, okay, mm, okay,
Mm, mm, it's us, brr ♪

2199
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:44,007
♪ I been rolled up, yeah,
I was geekin', yeah ♪

2200
01:36:44,007 --> 01:36:46,718
♪ I was, huh, I was high as
Fuck, tweakin', yeah, yeah ♪

2201
01:36:46,718 --> 01:36:50,097
♪ I was tryna strike shit, I
Was tryna strike shit, strike ♪

2202
01:36:50,097 --> 01:36:53,725
♪ I was tryna strike shit,
Like a match, late night ♪

2203
01:36:53,725 --> 01:36:56,353
♪ Yeah, strike like
I missed it, yeah ♪

2204
01:36:56,353 --> 01:36:58,522
♪ Strike like I hit the pin,
Yeah ♪

2205
01:36:58,522 --> 01:37:00,273
♪ Strike like I'm not goin'
To work, strike, strike ♪

2206
01:37:00,273 --> 01:37:04,903
♪ Slide, slide,
Shoulders, huh, shoulders ♪

2207
01:37:04,903 --> 01:37:07,532
♪ Stack them old hundreds,
Recreate Yoda, hm ♪

2208
01:37:07,532 --> 01:37:10,283
♪ I don't put no crushed ice
In my soda ♪

2209
01:37:10,283 --> 01:37:13,995
♪ Perky got her stuck
Like a holster... ♪

2210
01:37:13,995 --> 01:37:15,663
[man] She is a heroine to some,

2211
01:37:15,663 --> 01:37:17,542
as a fighter for Black rights.

2212
01:37:17,542 --> 01:37:19,210
She is a villain to others,

2213
01:37:19,210 --> 01:37:24,130
who believe she hides her crimes
behind revolutionary rhetoric.

2214
01:37:24,130 --> 01:37:25,883
[Assata]
I never received justice,

2215
01:37:25,883 --> 01:37:29,512
and I escaped, "A," because
I was afraid for my life,

2216
01:37:29,512 --> 01:37:33,182
and "B," because I knew that
I would never receive justice.

2217
01:37:33,182 --> 01:37:36,352
[Mavis] Do you want to leave
typing class?

2218
01:37:36,352 --> 01:37:38,478
Press "escape"
to leave the tour.

2219
01:37:38,478 --> 01:37:40,355
[man 1] Man,
I love Mavis Beacon.

2220
01:37:40,355 --> 01:37:42,273
[man 2] I love you,
Mavis Beacon.

2221
01:37:42,273 --> 01:37:44,277
You taught me how to type.
I played "Mavis Beacon..."

2222
01:37:44,277 --> 01:37:46,362
[man 3] I played "Mavis Beacon
Teaches Typing..."

2223
01:37:46,362 --> 01:37:47,780
[man 4] And it feels like
a privi--

2224
01:37:47,780 --> 01:37:49,907
Seeing, this Black woman
on this software,

2225
01:37:49,907 --> 01:37:51,408
it was really interesting.

2226
01:37:51,408 --> 01:37:53,327
Sorry I don't have any
information about where she at,

2227
01:37:53,327 --> 01:37:55,828
but peace and blessings. Ashe.

2228
01:37:55,828 --> 01:37:58,540
["Negus Poem 1 & 2"
by KeiyaA playing]

2229
01:38:03,087 --> 01:38:07,633
[vocalizing]

2230
01:38:08,467 --> 01:38:12,680
♪ Yeah... ♪

2231
01:38:17,810 --> 01:38:21,105
♪ Oh... ♪

2232
01:38:21,105 --> 01:38:24,817
♪ Mm-mm, hey, hey, hey ♪

2233
01:38:26,318 --> 01:38:28,820
♪ Sleep-sleep in my eye-eye ♪

2234
01:38:28,820 --> 01:38:31,615
♪ But still I gotta rise ♪

2235
01:38:31,615 --> 01:38:34,910
♪ We wind through cy-cycles
Of ti-time ♪

2236
01:38:34,910 --> 01:38:38,330
♪ Yet we transcend this life ♪

2237
01:38:38,330 --> 01:38:43,418
♪ Who's supposed to ride
Or die-ie for me, if not I? ♪

2238
01:38:43,418 --> 01:38:46,672
♪ Fear not,
Know that you're divi-ine ♪

2239
01:38:46,672 --> 01:38:48,882
♪ Real niggas never die ♪

2240
01:38:48,882 --> 01:38:52,093
-♪ Oh, oh ♪
-♪ Real niggas never die ♪

2241
01:38:52,093 --> 01:39:00,727
-♪ Oh ♪
-♪ Real niggas never die ♪

2242
01:39:00,727 --> 01:39:04,147
-♪ Oh... ♪
-♪ Real niggas never die ♪

2243
01:39:04,147 --> 01:39:10,528
♪ Real niggas never die ♪

2244
01:39:10,528 --> 01:39:12,698
♪ Yeah, yeah ♪

2245
01:39:12,698 --> 01:39:14,408
♪ Sleep-sleep in my eye ♪

2246
01:39:14,408 --> 01:39:16,452
♪ But I still gotta rise ♪

2247
01:39:16,452 --> 01:39:19,162
♪ We wind through cycles
Of time ♪

2248
01:39:19,162 --> 01:39:24,250
♪ Yet we transcend this life ♪

2249
01:39:24,250 --> 01:39:28,255
♪ Who else is supposed to ride
Or die for me, if not I? ♪

2250
01:39:28,255 --> 01:39:31,300
♪ Fear not, know
That you're divine ♪

2251
01:39:31,300 --> 01:39:37,513
♪ Remember real niggas
Don't die ♪

2252
01:39:37,513 --> 01:39:42,518
♪ Real niggas transcend
This life ♪

2253
01:39:43,687 --> 01:39:50,152
♪ Know that you'll transcend
This life ♪

2254
01:39:50,152 --> 01:39:52,780
♪ Yeah ♪

2255
01:39:53,572 --> 01:39:57,827
♪ Yeah, yeah ♪

2256
01:39:57,827 --> 01:40:00,328
♪ Yeah ♪

2257
01:40:00,328 --> 01:40:02,707
♪ Sleep-sleep in my eye ♪

2258
01:40:02,707 --> 01:40:04,500
♪ But I still gotta rise ♪

2259
01:40:04,500 --> 01:40:07,418
♪ We wind through
Cycles of time ♪

2260
01:40:07,418 --> 01:40:12,382
♪ Yet we transcend this life ♪

2261
01:40:12,382 --> 01:40:16,262
♪ Who else is supposed to ride
Or die for me, if not I? ♪

2262
01:40:16,262 --> 01:40:19,432
♪ Fear not, know
That you're divine ♪

2263
01:40:19,432 --> 01:40:25,270
♪ Remember real niggas
Don't die ♪

2264
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:31,193
♪ Real niggas transcend
This life ♪

2265
01:40:31,193 --> 01:40:37,867
♪ Know that you'll transcend
This life ♪

2266
01:40:37,867 --> 01:40:41,287
-♪ Who's supposed to ride ♪
-♪ Yeah ♪

2267
01:40:41,287 --> 01:40:47,835
♪ Real niggas don't die ♪

2268
01:40:54,298 --> 01:40:59,220
♪ Real niggas don't die ♪

2269
01:40:59,220 --> 01:41:01,348
[music fades]