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[Up-tempo pop music]
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[Eddie] You know, I'm curious though.
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You are actually
the number one employer
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- of human beings in Williamsburg.
- Yeah.
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How does it feel?
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Good. But we first came to Williamsburg--
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it's a good story.
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So we started in Montreal.
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And we came down to New York
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in the dotcom sort of era.
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So we moved to North 4th
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'cause Triple Five Soul gave us
part of their warehouse for free.
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[Shane] And at the time, this is like 2000
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and all the crack whores
were down there.
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And they were like $5 blowjobs,
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like the lowest common
denominator shit.
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We used to be extorted by
a crackhead named Crazy Larry.
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And he would literally shit
on our stoop
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unless we paid him a dollar.
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So we had to pay him a dollar
a day, extortion,
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or he would shit on our stoop.
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You know what I loved about it
is Manhattan was right there,
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and here was completely lawless.
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Like, there was no law,
there was nothing.
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Like, there was a coke place here,
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stayed open all night,
you could go buy coke.
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What was it called?
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Kokie's.
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My favorite bar was,
there was this--
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- ...you ever hear about the Chex Cash?
- [Eddie] Yeah.
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So Chex Cash was two 16-year-old kids.
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They took an old, deserted
check cashing place on the water.
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Ninety-nine cent beers,
punk rock on a jukebox,
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and, fucking, you'd just sit by the water
and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon for 99 cents.
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Boom, that's fucking Brooklyn.
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Brooklyn was,
for I'd say a decade,
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the coolest 20-block radius in the world.
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I like how you just put the...
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Can we get a shot
of him putting the bone on the table?
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This is a guy who grew up
in a steak house here,
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where he's just like,
"I'm gonna put the bone on the table now."
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[Upbeat music]
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[Glasses clink]
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[Pop music continues]
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[Eddie] I came up as a chef
in an era
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where everything was shifting
underneath my feet.
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[Chef] And I'll show you what you do.
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- [Whimpering]
- [Audience] Yeah!
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[Eddie] After watching Food Network
dominate food culture in America
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for the better part of a decade,
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food and travel exploded on the internet
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with websites like Eater
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and apps like Yelp.
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It was a hit, I mean a big hit.
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With all these new options,
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Food Network was becoming a joke.
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Oh, Lord.
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[Eddie] And a new voice had arisen.
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What do you think about
these guys like Emeril Lagasse
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and those guys
on the Food Network?
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Well, you're asking me to kick Santa Claus
in the crotch on television.
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- I mean...
- [Audience laughs]
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[Eddie] I idolized Tony
because he humanized people.
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{\an8}[Tony] How long you
been surfing now?
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You were the first.
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[Eddie] He broke stereotypes and centuries
of preconceived notions and prejudices
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with each one-hour episode.
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In the wake of his success,
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the Food Network scrambled
to find the next Tony Bourdain.
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They even started a new channel
called The Cooking Channel
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that went after young chefs
like myself.
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{\an8}How the hell have you been making money
here with all these deals?
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{\an8}We have a good product.
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{\an8}[Eddie] At one point,
I was offered a series
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{\an8}called Cheap Bites
with The Cooking Channel,
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{\an8}but I balked when a producer said,
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{\an8}"You could be the next
Asian hip-hop Guy Fieri."
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Every executive started coming
to my restaurant,
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but so did Tony.
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- What's up, Tony?
- [Tony] How are you, man?
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[Eddie] How's it going?
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- All good, how's things?
- Good to see you, man. Good, good, good.
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Delicious.
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[Eddie] I didn't really know
what the fuck I was doing
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with all the attention
and started to say wild things.
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I was like Rudy Gobert touching
all the mics during the pandemic,
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not understanding the gravity
of the situation.
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But Tony did.
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He saw the food establishment
trying to kill my career
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before it even really got started
and got my back.
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Tony took me to dinner
on the second floor of the Spotted Pig
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and told me one thing:
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"Eddie, at every turn,
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"they're gonna ask you to bite the dick.
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"And no matter what you do,
never bite the dick."
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And I didn't.
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I'm Christine Laskowski
with Signovision Journal,
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and tonight we're in Soho at
the McNally Jackson Bookstore.
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We're going to be hearing
from Taiwanese-American chef
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and author Eddie Huang
about his new memoir,
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Fresh Off the Boat.
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Let's go have a seat.
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[Eddie] I published a memoir
called Fresh Off the Boat.
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[Laughing]
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Then ABC bought my memoir,
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which became the first
Chinese-American sitcom of all time.
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- Excuse me?
- It's the American way, right?
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You know about that.
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[Narrator] Fresh Off the Boat.
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[Eddie] Life started to get weird.
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Executives tried plugging me into boxes,
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but I never fit.
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I got a TED fellowship
and lost it about 48 hours
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into the conference
because I left to do a podcast
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with Asa Kira and David Choe.
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I lasted about one week doing
a new show with Meghan McCain
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before they replaced me
with Baratunde.
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And despite Fresh Off the Boat's success,
I hated it creatively.
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I was out before the end
of the first season.
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At every turn,
I stayed true to myself,
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and the one place I felt at home
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was a place called VICE.
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{\an8}[Upbeat music fading]
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{\an8}I'm Shane Smith.
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{\an8}I'm Gavin McInnes.
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{\an8}I'm Suroosh Alvi.
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{\an8}And we're VICE Magazine,
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{\an8}and we're moving to New York City!
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{\an8}"V".
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[Upbeat music]
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[Eddie] VICE was a lot of things.
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A digital content creator.
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[Shane] Three million subs across brands
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and something like
half a billion video views.
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[Eddie] An ad agency.
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{\an8}- Another round?
- Nah.
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{\an8}I'm taking it slow.
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[Eddie] A news organization.
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[Applause]
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[Eddie] A media empire.
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[Man] What's the mission?
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The mission is to become
the largest media company
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in the world and to not suck.
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[Eddie] But originally, it was a magazine
started by Haitians in Montreal.
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[Shane] We were working at a
place called Voice in Montreal.
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It was a make-work project
for Haitian immigrants and us.
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And then after a while,
they owed us money,
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and they couldn't pay us,
so we took it,
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we dropped the 'O',
and called it VICE,
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and then that was it.
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[Spike] So you stole the magazine
from a non-profit organization
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that was trying to help Haitians?
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{\an8}Correct.
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{\an8}Dude, that's kind of not that nice.
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{\an8}Yeah.
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[Eddie] VICE was
successful for several reasons,
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but what they were selling,
if you ask Shane Smith,
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was cool.
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[Shane] Every generation, you have
a changing of the guard immediately.
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Woodward and Bernstein
were the punks of their generation,
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and now they're the old guard.
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By definition, when you have
a changing of the guard,
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you have a different language.
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{\an8}[Eddie] This sales pitch took VICE
at one point to a $6 billion valuation.
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And Shane was looked at
like this Professor X-like media mogul
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who could get along with mutants
and businessmen alike.
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What a fucking guy.
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Thank you.
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[Eddie] Then it went bankrupt.
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The VICE publishing business is now
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going to operate as a smaller,
break-even business.
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[Emojis bubbling]
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[Eddie] A lot of people lost their jobs.
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{\an8}A lot of people lost money.
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And some people like myself
never got paid what was owed.
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You could read about it here,
and here, and here.
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And I'm sure there'll be
an Alex Gibney-esque documentary
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with talking heads sitting on stools,
cutting the story into bite-sized pieces
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from mouth breathers
like this was WeWork or Enron.
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These people are risk takers.
They're impulsive.
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[Eddie] But VICE was different.
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At one point,
this was a free magazine
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that meant a lot to people.
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Not investors, not the market,
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not the trades, not demographics
or numbers in a spreadsheet,
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but actual fucking people.
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VICE's existence challenged
everything we knew
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about journalism and brands.
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We invested in story.
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{\an8}[Woman speaking Spanish]
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{\an8}[Eddie] And character.
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{\an8}[In Spanish]
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[Eddie] And showed that
with a "DIY fuck what you heard,
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"I'll see it for myself" attitude,
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you could get closer to the truth.
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But once it caught fire
and Shane saw the value,
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we all fell victim to a resource curse.
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The thing that I could see happening
was we get to New York,
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we lose our focus,
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and we start sort of venturing off
into the side projects,
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so much so that we forget the mag,
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which is the root of our everything.
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[Eddie] Looking at Shane's face,
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you could tell
this thing meant so much to him.
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It meant something to all of us,
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and we give our youth to this place.
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But I swear to fucking god,
it didn't have to end like this.
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[Pop instrumental music]
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[Music ends]
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[Crew] I'm sorry I need you
to clear this shot.
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00:10:01,210 --> 00:10:02,630
Yeah, thank you.
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00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,420
Zach?
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00:10:07,420 --> 00:10:10,380
{\an8}Stay next to this dude, and
then keep taking pictures of the frame.
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{\an8}I wanna see what it looks like.
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00:10:12,250 --> 00:10:13,420
[Laughs]
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What're you looking for in the frame?
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00:10:15,380 --> 00:10:17,790
- Just got to look fly.
- You got to look fly?
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00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,670
I feel like it's
a nice shot on you, bro.
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00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:21,670
Yeah, it's a nice shot.
Looks great.
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00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:23,250
- Let's do it.
- Alright, good.
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00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:25,580
- Dave approves the frame.
- Alright, let's go.
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Wait, I hate like at the beginning
of documentaries
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we can't use any
of the "Oh, do I look good? Oh, cool."
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Cut to the interview.
I hate that shit.
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None of that.
We start, we talk.
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You don't want foreplay.
You just, like,
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- rock it and roll.
- No foreplay.
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Yeah, so what was the
last year you worked at VICE?
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2007.
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Oh, wow. Okay.
So, you like dumb, early VICE.
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Started in... I want to say '98.
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Oh, wow.
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[Dave] Still in Montreal.
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In the early days in Montreal,
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I remember the loft,
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and it was a bunch
of like punk rock dudes
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who really loved Wu-Tang.
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00:11:01,580 --> 00:11:03,830
Like they loved Wu-Tang.
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00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,210
And that's why they gave me the platform.
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So, my first column
in VICE magazine was called
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00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:10,880
"Ask the Poindexter."
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00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,380
And it was fake letters written to me,
the Poindexter,
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00:11:15,460 --> 00:11:18,380
about like the most obscure hip hop facts.
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00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:22,000
It evolved into
an ad hoc position
247
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,880
of hip hop editor.
248
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,380
Because they were like,
we need someone that's a hip hop nerd
249
00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:30,750
that's going to write about this
from a unique perspective,
250
00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:33,330
even though my perspective
wasn't that unique,
251
00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:36,130
because I was just trying
to pay homage to Ego Trip and On The Go.
252
00:11:36,170 --> 00:11:37,670
And I have to say this,
253
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:40,330
because it's really like
those magazines raised me.
254
00:11:40,420 --> 00:11:44,540
Ego Trip specifically was a massive,
massive, massive influence on VICE.
255
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:46,670
- High concept.
- [Eddie] Yeah, satirical.
256
00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:49,420
[Dave] So that humor,
that kind of self-awareness
257
00:11:49,540 --> 00:11:52,630
was missing at the time
in a lot of hip hop journalism.
258
00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:54,290
So, when I came on board,
259
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:55,670
what I kept saying was like,
260
00:11:55,710 --> 00:11:57,710
"rappers are the funniest people
on earth."
261
00:11:57,750 --> 00:12:00,290
Like they are the most vibrant,
funniest people
262
00:12:00,380 --> 00:12:03,670
with the best sense of humor,
the best references.
263
00:12:03,830 --> 00:12:06,080
All you need to do
is transcribe.
264
00:12:06,170 --> 00:12:08,830
- [Eddie] That's sick.
- [Dave] And that started in '98,
265
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,580
and I went until 2007.
266
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:13,960
And then when the band
became bigger,
267
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,790
I was like,
you know, I'm an artist,
268
00:12:15,830 --> 00:12:17,540
I'm signed to the label.
269
00:12:17,630 --> 00:12:20,710
I don't really need to be writing
music criticism for the magazine.
270
00:12:20,750 --> 00:12:22,460
- For the magazine. You know?
- [Eddie] Yeah.
271
00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:23,920
- [Needy Girl playing]
- ♪ Wanna be by yourself ♪
272
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,130
♪ And no one else ♪
273
00:12:25,210 --> 00:12:26,540
♪ Alright ♪
274
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,790
♪ Alright ♪
275
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,790
[Eddie] Your quarantine album
you start writing,
276
00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:35,580
you just, you want wax now,
you know, like you're good, dawg.
277
00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:37,830
- That's different. [Laughs]
- That's better.
278
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,000
Congratulations, man.
279
00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:42,710
[Up-tempo pop music]
280
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:44,880
[Dave] Looking back in VICE Magazine,
281
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,380
they let me do whatever I wanted
282
00:12:46,380 --> 00:12:49,000
because they knew
that they did not know this music
283
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,670
and they did not revere
284
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:52,920
- ...the music as much as I did.
- [Eddie] Yeah.
285
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,880
And you would think that
you would write an article, it's VICE,
286
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,460
people thought we just wrote this
and sent it in.
287
00:12:58,580 --> 00:13:00,040
Like no way.
288
00:13:00,130 --> 00:13:03,000
Revisions, edits,
this paragraph needs to go there.
289
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,960
Like really, you know, rigorous.
290
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,210
People never knew that
or it didn't come off
291
00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:08,830
because the tone was so spontaneous.
292
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,080
But these things were really labored over,
at least for me.
293
00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:18,080
You know, Jesse was a really,
really rigorous and demanding editor.
294
00:13:18,170 --> 00:13:19,420
- [Eddie] Pearson?
- Yeah.
295
00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:22,630
[Eddie] Yo, Jesse Pearson
brought that literary bent.
296
00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:25,790
Him and Gavin merged
and they did something really special
297
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,670
that should not be overlooked
because like--
298
00:13:28,750 --> 00:13:30,830
But that story gets eclipsed.
299
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,540
At that time already, so 2000,
300
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:38,960
it was already starting
to rumble under the surface.
301
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,330
[Dave] I remember reading
Gavin's "VICE Guide to Hate".
302
00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,460
That's a very important article
in the sort of journalistic bent.
303
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:48,830
I remember reading that
and being like, "This is weird."
304
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,330
Like some of it's funny,
some of it's,
305
00:13:51,420 --> 00:13:54,290
you know, today you would say
like edgelord or whatever.
306
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:57,500
I don't know what he does now.
I don't follow.
307
00:13:57,540 --> 00:13:59,380
But in those days,
308
00:13:59,460 --> 00:14:02,130
he was a hysterically funny writer.
309
00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:05,920
So, when he wrote
the "VICE Guide to Hate", it was funny.
310
00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:09,290
You know, so you kind of like,
you felt uncomfortable.
311
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:10,710
You were like, "This is weird."
312
00:14:10,750 --> 00:14:12,420
Like, "What does he really think?"
313
00:14:12,420 --> 00:14:14,750
I think that was the question
on our minds.
314
00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:17,960
Does he really think this,
or is he being funny?
315
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,040
Which as you know is the strategy
behind a lot of hate speech,
316
00:14:22,130 --> 00:14:23,750
even today, right?
It's 4chan.
317
00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:25,670
It's the Pepe meme, right?
"I'm just joking."
318
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:27,630
- Yeah.
- That's classic. But...
319
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:31,750
before it went to shit or it went too far
320
00:14:31,830 --> 00:14:34,670
or before it became even just corny,
321
00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:38,420
Gavin was a really,
really funny writer.
322
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:44,670
Like truly, a really,
really, really funny writer.
323
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:47,330
[Upbeat music]
324
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,210
[Eddie] Speaking of Dave 1
got me thinking.
325
00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:55,920
I knew that Gavin got kicked out
of VICE before I got there.
326
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,420
And people actively
tried not to mention his name
327
00:14:58,420 --> 00:15:00,540
around the office like he was Voldemort.
328
00:15:00,580 --> 00:15:02,920
But I never knew why Gavin got kicked out
329
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,540
or how VICE ended up in Shane's hands.
330
00:15:05,630 --> 00:15:07,750
And watching this cautious,
331
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:10,040
fantastic, curated man
332
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:13,080
who was literally checking
the frame of the shot
333
00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:15,380
dance around the topic of Gavin
334
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:17,630
while simultaneously dropping hints,
335
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:20,670
made me realize I had a lot to uncover.
336
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:23,210
[Upbeat music]
337
00:15:24,250 --> 00:15:26,080
[Eddie] I really liked that article.
338
00:15:26,170 --> 00:15:29,460
- [Amy] I grew up orthodox Jewish.
- [Eddie] Yeah.
339
00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:31,500
So feel free
to ask me questions.
340
00:15:31,540 --> 00:15:33,750
{\an8}But growing up Orthodox Jewish,
I would say...
341
00:15:33,790 --> 00:15:35,920
{\an8}sort of led the way to working at VICE
342
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,080
{\an8}because I did not fit in there.
343
00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:39,790
I was a total misfit.
344
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,790
And I was so sheltered.
345
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,920
As soon as I was free of there,
346
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,790
I was like,
"Get me the hell out of here.
347
00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:47,330
"And I want to do everything.
348
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:49,580
"And I want
to do the weirdest shit I can do."
349
00:15:49,630 --> 00:15:52,420
I was always drawn to things
that were frightening
350
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:57,210
because I just wanted to experience life
outside of this tiny bubble
351
00:15:57,290 --> 00:16:00,000
where everyone liked
and did the same thing.
352
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,330
{\an8}Jesse Pearson,
353
00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:05,040
{\an8}who was the glue for everything
in the early days,
354
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,130
he and I both worked at this
magazine called Index,
355
00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:10,080
and he brought a copy of VICE.
356
00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:11,670
It was the year 2000.
357
00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:14,920
And I just remember looking at it
and thinking, "What?
358
00:16:15,250 --> 00:16:16,790
- What is this?
- [Laughs]
359
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,330
"Oh, my God, what is this?"
360
00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:21,290
So I thought, this is like a zine,
361
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:24,210
but somehow with like,
amazing production values.
362
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:28,170
Was the beauty of VICE that you could
just talk about anything you wanted there?
363
00:16:28,170 --> 00:16:33,580
Yes. I don't think they ever said no
to anything I ever wanted to write.
364
00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:37,580
The stuff you were doing,
like the guide to female ejaculation,
365
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:40,500
[Eddie] I have been seeing stuff
that you should be proud.
366
00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:41,750
[Amy laughs]
367
00:16:41,830 --> 00:16:43,670
[Amy] So, you had the VICE guide to,
368
00:16:43,750 --> 00:16:46,080
you know, all different sexual acts,
369
00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:49,000
{\an8}but they didn't have one
for female ejaculation.
370
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,250
{\an8}So I said, "May I please add this
to the fantastic guides?"
371
00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:55,380
'Cause those were all pretty good.
They were funny
372
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:56,960
and the advice was pretty solid.
373
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,290
So I just wanted to, you know add to it.
374
00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:00,790
[Laughs]
375
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,250
[Eddie] I realize talking to you
that I'm still really figuring out
376
00:17:04,330 --> 00:17:07,210
how I feel about my time at VICE.
377
00:17:07,290 --> 00:17:10,080
They created this place that young people
378
00:17:10,170 --> 00:17:13,210
got to write and create
and be right and be wrong
379
00:17:13,290 --> 00:17:14,830
and figure their shit out.
380
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,250
[Amy] Yeah, it's a very
different time now.
381
00:17:17,330 --> 00:17:20,460
There wasn't really
any canceling, I guess.
382
00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:23,630
I mean, you could,
just because it wasn't so...
383
00:17:23,670 --> 00:17:25,630
it was such a small audience.
384
00:17:25,670 --> 00:17:27,040
And it was a free magazine.
385
00:17:27,130 --> 00:17:30,540
You could either pick it up and look at it
and like it or throw it in the garbage.
386
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:32,580
- [Eddie] Yeah.
- [Chuckles] That was it.
387
00:17:32,670 --> 00:17:35,380
[Amy] At the time,
I had a lot of different jobs.
388
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:37,750
I also had a blog called Teenage Unicorn.
389
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:40,880
It's not online anymore.
I scrubbed it. [Laughs]
390
00:17:41,670 --> 00:17:44,210
But I have a picture
of a really fun barbecue
391
00:17:44,290 --> 00:17:46,830
that Gavin had where he, like,
he put his dick on a bun.
392
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,630
And then he put ketchup on it,
393
00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:51,210
which is actually more offensive
because you don't put ketc--
394
00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:53,380
- [Eddie] Mustard.
- Mustard all the way.
395
00:17:53,460 --> 00:17:57,670
So, you know, I was more mad
about the ketchup than anything.
396
00:17:59,290 --> 00:18:03,830
I don't know. Does it sound terrible
if I just say it was funny?
397
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,380
I'm sure somebody
can figure out an equation,
398
00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:10,080
like politically,
where that is wrong.
399
00:18:10,170 --> 00:18:11,960
And there's probably many reasons--
400
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,960
[Amy] Well, it's wrong
if it's not your friend
401
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,170
And you explicitly ask
them not to. [Laughs]
402
00:18:19,580 --> 00:18:22,170
After Jesse Pearson left and then I left,
403
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:24,580
they got this giant influx of money
404
00:18:24,670 --> 00:18:26,540
and suddenly you could do
these crazy things
405
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:28,290
but for a much bigger audience.
406
00:18:28,380 --> 00:18:30,880
And I kind of feel like
that's where things got iffy
407
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,500
because suddenly you had like
a lot of people in the office
408
00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:36,250
who aren't all friend--
like long-time friends
409
00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:38,460
and you can't do the same
kind of crazy shit
410
00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:39,960
because you'll offend someone.
411
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,630
Gavin likes rules, obviously.
412
00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:43,880
"Do's and don'ts."
413
00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,920
Some of the do's and don'ts
were hilarious and right on.
414
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,380
But a lot of the do's and don'ts
415
00:18:50,460 --> 00:18:54,330
were very much like how to be a woman,
416
00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:56,580
how to be an attractive woman,
417
00:18:56,670 --> 00:18:59,670
how to be an attractive woman to men.
418
00:19:00,170 --> 00:19:05,540
But Gavin wasn't mean to me
or wasn't scary enough
419
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:08,000
- To make me be like, "whoa."
- [Eddie] Yeah.
420
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,710
He would have stupid shit on his desk,
421
00:19:10,790 --> 00:19:13,880
you know... racist stuff,
422
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:16,960
and I would just roll my eyes
'cause I was like,
423
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,830
- He's like an edgelord, you know?
- [Eddie] Yeah.
424
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,630
He'd say something shocking
and I'd say like, "Alright, Howard Stern,"
425
00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:24,920
- Like it just was his shtick.
- Yeah.
426
00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:30,960
Did you ever hear
about the... VICE initiation thing
427
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,790
where they gave out like rings
and pins and stuff?
428
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,210
[Eddie] I mean, I got a ring,
but I don't know how you guys--
429
00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:38,040
See, I never got a ring.
I got a pin.
430
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,330
And that's fucked up.
431
00:19:39,420 --> 00:19:41,460
- I've never heard about the pin--
- I didn't want a ring.
432
00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:42,290
[Crew speaking]
433
00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:44,670
- Damn. You can think about it
- Let me tell you--
434
00:19:44,670 --> 00:19:46,210
while they do the new card.
435
00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:50,080
So Gavin had this thing
where he would hand out these pins,
436
00:19:50,170 --> 00:19:52,420
and he had like a Hitler doll,
437
00:19:52,540 --> 00:19:55,460
and he would be like,
he would dub you with it.
438
00:19:55,580 --> 00:19:57,040
And I was like, "Fuck no."
439
00:19:57,130 --> 00:19:58,250
[Crew 2] Mark.
440
00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:01,500
- [Eddie sighs]
- What was I saying?
441
00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:03,920
Something came up
with my therapist where I said,
442
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,670
"Oh, but you're not supposed to do that
443
00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:08,670
"when you're my age," she was like,
"Where are you getting this from?"
444
00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:11,630
And I was like,
"Holy shit, from Gavin."
445
00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:12,920
Like 20 years later,
446
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:18,380
I've internalized...
these rules that are absurd.
447
00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:23,040
And there's a very infamous... story.
448
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:26,080
[Chuckles] It's so stupid.
449
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:28,040
{\an8}Jesse and Lesley,
450
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:31,040
{\an8}and me and Gavin were hanging out.
451
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:34,210
Gavin just went on one of his comedy bits
452
00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:36,710
about like how a woman should look.
453
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,750
- [Eddie] Oh.
- And when he got to um...
454
00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:42,330
the labia, he said,
455
00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:45,210
"Ugh, labia has to be
perfectly symmetrical.
456
00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:47,420
"Otherwise, it's just disgusting."
457
00:20:47,540 --> 00:20:51,790
And I just was like,
"Ugh, I keep-- like, come on already."
458
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,130
And they were like,
"Oh, someone has asymmetrical labia."
459
00:20:55,170 --> 00:20:57,250
[Boisterous laughter]
460
00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:02,960
And I was like, "I don't know,
but like I'm just enough."
461
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,170
[Laughter]
462
00:21:05,250 --> 00:21:08,210
[Uptempo theme music]
463
00:21:10,670 --> 00:21:14,630
[Eddie, voice over] Despite knowing
what Gavin became after his time at VICE,
464
00:21:14,670 --> 00:21:17,540
hearing Amy talk about
his errors is shocking.
465
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:20,330
It's one of those things
that doesn't feel real.
466
00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:24,460
It doesn't make sense until people like
Dave and Amy paint the portrait for you.
467
00:21:24,540 --> 00:21:25,920
Looking at it in retrospect,
468
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,420
you may be wondering why any of us went
to work at a place like this.
469
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:31,630
For a lot of us,
we were rejected everywhere
470
00:21:31,670 --> 00:21:35,040
and spent most of our youth looking
for a place to be ourselves,
471
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,880
even if the place
was founded by a guy like Gavin.
472
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:40,080
You could see Gavin as a savior,
473
00:21:40,170 --> 00:21:41,420
a cult leader,
474
00:21:41,540 --> 00:21:43,210
or maybe just a chilly pimp.
475
00:21:43,290 --> 00:21:44,580
They never had a daddy,
476
00:21:44,670 --> 00:21:46,710
so when they call someone "Daddy,"
477
00:21:46,790 --> 00:21:48,420
that's everything they got.
478
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:50,710
[Eddie] No matter what he does,
479
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:53,920
he was the first person to see value
in some of these writers,
480
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,000
and they'll always have
a place in their hearts for him.
481
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,500
It's a tough thing
for people to understand
482
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:01,540
who weren't in situations like this.
483
00:22:02,540 --> 00:22:05,080
Sometimes you love people that hurt you
484
00:22:05,170 --> 00:22:07,830
simply because they were
the first to love you at all.
485
00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:12,290
[Music fades]
486
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,130
[Eddie] I'm curious,
not just in the context of VICE,
487
00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:17,290
like, what drew you to writing?
488
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:19,630
{\an8}[Jesse] Reading, I think,
drew me to writing.
489
00:22:19,670 --> 00:22:22,830
{\an8}I was drawn to reading first as an escape
from my life as a kid.
490
00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:24,460
{\an8}You know, it was like a safe place.
491
00:22:24,460 --> 00:22:26,420
I think that if you read enough,
492
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:29,670
you've got a natural inclination to write,
it just starts to happen.
493
00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:31,460
But writing writing, you know,
494
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:33,210
in terms of,
like, prose, journalism,
495
00:22:33,210 --> 00:22:36,710
started for me with punk rock probably,
with zines, certain zines.
496
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:40,210
There was kind of a zine explosion for me.
And a lot of them were--
497
00:22:40,290 --> 00:22:41,670
not even
what you might call punk.
498
00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:44,210
They were more like,
some people call them hate literature,
499
00:22:44,210 --> 00:22:45,420
you know to some degree.
500
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,880
I was attracted to that stuff.
501
00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:50,250
Also, independent comics
were really big for me
502
00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:53,290
in terms of inspiring me
to like know that I could do something
503
00:22:53,290 --> 00:22:54,960
without having to have permission.
504
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,960
[Eddie] When I read the old VICE shit,
505
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,000
you weren't trying
to capture youth culture.
506
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,540
You weren't trying
to define youth culture.
507
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:05,670
You were just sharing the shit
you were interested in,
508
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:07,880
and because it was so specific,
509
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,380
it became representative.
510
00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:12,130
[Jesse] I think Gavin started it
before we even met him.
511
00:23:12,130 --> 00:23:15,630
And then I came in, and then I brought in
Amy Kellner and Lesley Arfin.
512
00:23:15,670 --> 00:23:18,330
And I think the four of us defined a tone.
513
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:22,170
I always refer to it as,
like, hyper-intelligent valley girl.
514
00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:23,500
- [Eddie laughs]
- You know what I mean?
515
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:25,880
Like, you know
you can drop continental philosophy,
516
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,670
but you also say totes.
517
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:32,540
{\an8}[Eddie] When you were there, it felt like
the wildest literary magazine.
518
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,420
You know, like,
I would give this shit to my kid to read,
519
00:23:35,420 --> 00:23:36,420
to be like,
520
00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:38,290
"This is the literature of that time."
521
00:23:38,290 --> 00:23:41,130
"These are the romantic
poets of the early aughts."
522
00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:43,040
- [Jesse] That's cool. Yeah, that's great.
- [Eddie] Right?
523
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,710
[Eddie] Like, you have
Miranda July in here.
524
00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:46,330
You have Ottessa Moshfegh in here.
525
00:23:46,330 --> 00:23:47,420
Natasha Lyonne.
526
00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:49,790
Like, this shit is a time capsule.
527
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,710
So, those are,
those are of a certain era.
528
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:54,630
I mean this one was really
controversial with some readers.
529
00:23:54,670 --> 00:23:57,130
- It's cops telling their own stories.
- [Eddie] Wow.
530
00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:59,880
"The bag is NYPD slang
for the full uniform.
531
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:02,540
[Eddie] "If your bag is perfectly pressed,
532
00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:04,830
"crispy condition,
you're probably a pussy.
533
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,630
"Real cops wear busted-out uniforms
as a sign of experience and pride."
534
00:24:08,670 --> 00:24:10,380
[Jesse sniggers]
535
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:12,290
[Eddie] Do's and don'ts, baby.
536
00:24:12,380 --> 00:24:13,960
"She's either an empowered slut
537
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,920
"or the kind of person
that will tell your boss
538
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,000
"you made up the nickname Bald Hitler."
539
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:19,790
[Jesse] Wow.
540
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,580
[Eddie] And, you know,
a lot has been said about Gavin
541
00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:24,960
and his political views and as a person.
542
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,670
{\an8}[Jesse] Oh, yeah. I mean,
there were pieces in VICE
543
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:29,710
{\an8}that were starting
to indicate conservatism
544
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:31,670
even before I came in in 2002.
545
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:33,460
There were little things here and there.
546
00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:35,670
So, I think Gavin was exploring
these ideas way earlier
547
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:37,580
- than a lot of people think he was.
- Yeah.
548
00:24:37,630 --> 00:24:39,330
So, it was bubbling, yeah.
It was bubbling.
549
00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:41,080
And I think Shane...
550
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,540
Fuck it, I'll just say it.
I think Shane was, like,
551
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:47,210
jealous of Gavin being the face
of VICE for a long time,
552
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:48,830
and he wanted some of that shine too.
553
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,670
And he saw this as a way.
554
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:51,960
So, he made his move.
555
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:54,630
- Did you have a ring at VICE?
- I had a ring.
556
00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:56,540
I lost it like a week
after they gave it to me.
557
00:24:56,580 --> 00:24:58,960
- [Eddie] You didn't give a fuck?
- Fuck, no. I'm not gonna wear that.
558
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,960
To me, it would feel like
wearing your own band's T-shirt,
559
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,380
you know, which is a lame move.
560
00:25:03,380 --> 00:25:06,330
[Eddie] I think they tried to
like, get our loyalty with it.
561
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:08,670
And the only people
that ever thought it was cool
562
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:11,670
were like the business people
that invested and like got a ring.
563
00:25:11,710 --> 00:25:14,790
And, like, of course,
you cornballs thought this shit was cool.
564
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,210
- And you're wearing it to this day.
- Yeah.
565
00:25:17,290 --> 00:25:19,210
[Jesse] Shane was a good businessman
in a certain way.
566
00:25:19,210 --> 00:25:20,500
Like, he could really sell.
567
00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:24,630
But his approach to selling, I always kind
of liken it to P.T. Barnum, you know?
568
00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:27,750
Where you're like,
a carnival barker, you know?
569
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:29,710
Taking the freaks, who were us,
570
00:25:29,790 --> 00:25:31,460
and selling them to the squares.
571
00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:36,630
He wanted consciously to win
that sector of culture over to himself,
572
00:25:36,670 --> 00:25:37,830
you know what I mean?
573
00:25:38,380 --> 00:25:41,290
I don't think it succeeded, you know?
574
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960
[Eddie] After you left,
it's just kids with guns.
575
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,000
[Jesse] Well, that's kind of why I left.
576
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,290
I quit in 2010 because
577
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:51,630
the bosses at that point,
578
00:25:51,670 --> 00:25:53,670
were wanting the magazine
to become kind of like
579
00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:55,420
a catalogue for the video content.
580
00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:57,710
And it was like
these attempts at hard news.
581
00:25:57,790 --> 00:26:00,540
Sending some kid to a country
that they'd never been to,
582
00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:03,880
and basically the thrust of these pieces
would be like, "It's scary here."
583
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,670
And I found that really irresponsible
and really othering.
584
00:26:06,670 --> 00:26:08,330
I was like,
"I don't want a piece of this."
585
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:10,500
And that's a filter they chose to put on,
you know?
586
00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:12,290
To look at the world that way.
587
00:26:12,380 --> 00:26:14,040
Somebody went to Liberia,
588
00:26:14,130 --> 00:26:16,790
and they were talking about
how scary everything was.
589
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,880
[Gunfire]
590
00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:24,790
[Gunfire]
591
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,880
This is like a civil war
on steroids.
592
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,880
It's a post-apocalyptic Armageddon
593
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,580
with child soldiers smoking heroin,
cross-dressing cannibals,
594
00:26:32,670 --> 00:26:34,000
systematic rape.
595
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:36,420
It's total hell on earth.
596
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:38,290
[Gun fires]
597
00:26:38,380 --> 00:26:39,540
[Jesse] And then like a week later,
598
00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:41,830
I saw an episode
of Anthony Bourdain's show at the time,
599
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,380
and he was in the same place,
600
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:46,040
walking down the street, like,
"It's vibrant here, it's exciting.
601
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,790
"Gonna try some food
and meet some people."
602
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:50,670
Just these two completely
different approaches to these places.
603
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:53,420
I think I even told Shane this
at some point like, 'coolness',
604
00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:55,580
whatever you want to say about
that word and concept,
605
00:26:55,630 --> 00:26:58,040
and how complicated it is
and how problematic it can be,
606
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,920
'coolness' is not
a renewable resource.
607
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,920
You know, if you have it
and you want to sell it,
608
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,330
you can sell it once.
609
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:06,330
[Up-tempo pop music]
610
00:27:08,830 --> 00:27:11,040
[Eddie] Speaking to Jesse
reminded me of the time
611
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,040
I went to Jamaica for Huang's World.
612
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:15,170
I didn't like VICE's coverage
of Black people
613
00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:18,630
because it was always kids
with guns or dudes with drugs.
614
00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:20,500
I grew up working for a Jamaican chef
615
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:22,790
at my dad's restaurant named Chef Andy,
616
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,420
and he was none of those things.
617
00:27:24,420 --> 00:27:26,630
I wanted to show the Jamaica
that he told me about,
618
00:27:26,670 --> 00:27:28,540
so I visited schoolchildren
619
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:30,710
and spoke to people
about Marcus Garvey.
620
00:27:30,790 --> 00:27:33,460
There is way more to Jamaica
than just the whole party
621
00:27:33,580 --> 00:27:36,670
and the hype life,
smoking weed and all of that.
622
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:38,170
There's a lot more.
623
00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:40,380
[Eddie] But when I got back,
Eddy Moretti,
624
00:27:40,460 --> 00:27:42,210
the number two at VICE at that time,
625
00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:43,630
went off on me saying,
626
00:27:43,670 --> 00:27:45,630
"Where's the guns? Where's the drugs?"
627
00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:47,250
"Where's Trench Town?"
628
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:51,960
I told him I wasn't down for
his ghetto safari kids with guns bullshit,
629
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,000
and he suspended me.
630
00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:56,710
When I went back to Jamaica
for the reshoot,
631
00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:58,750
I put this clip in,
but they took it out
632
00:27:58,830 --> 00:28:01,790
because it made fun
of their approach to journalism.
633
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,710
Yo, if this was
any other VICE show coming here,
634
00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:06,290
it'd be like this.
635
00:28:07,630 --> 00:28:10,880
[Dramatically] So, we are in the
mountains of Jamaica right now,
636
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,710
and this is very, very dangerous.
637
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:16,250
Many people have died here.
638
00:28:16,670 --> 00:28:18,920
Thomas Horton has died here three times.
639
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,130
VICE: HBO.
We go there.
640
00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:30,130
[Singing in Arabic]
641
00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:40,420
[Spike] Now, I always think that
a lot of what VICE has done
642
00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:42,920
has happened because
of your sheer will of it...
643
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,250
Yeah, I think that too.
[Laughter]
644
00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:47,630
I think...
I think because you're like...
645
00:28:47,670 --> 00:28:50,670
I mean, you know, it's part,
like this sort of...
646
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,080
part you know, having a vision,
647
00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:56,580
part P.T. Barnum hyping it
648
00:28:56,670 --> 00:29:00,710
and you know sort of willing everyone
to you know, to go along with you.
649
00:29:01,670 --> 00:29:04,790
Yeah. When you're starting out,
you have to definitely,
650
00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:09,210
you know be louder noise
than the other guys.
651
00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:10,580
You freak me out.
652
00:29:10,670 --> 00:29:12,920
No, I'm the only one
that doesn't freak you out.
653
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,920
- Oh, that's right.
- So, you've forgotten that.
654
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,130
[Pensive music]
655
00:29:21,540 --> 00:29:24,170
[Lesley Arfin] There was
a writer, Christi Bradnox,
656
00:29:24,670 --> 00:29:28,210
{\an8}who wrote the
"VICE Guide to Eating Pussy",
657
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:32,540
{\an8}and I was like,
"This is what I want to write."
658
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:36,460
It was like telling guys what to do,
or girls or whatever.
659
00:29:36,580 --> 00:29:38,960
I was like,
"This is exactly the type of shit
660
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,290
that I want to do when I leave school."
661
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,250
It was so funny and really
like a celebration of women.
662
00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:51,460
And I just wanted to write
the kind of shit that VICE was writing.
663
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:53,830
So, when I first started at VICE,
664
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,670
I told Gavin, I'm like, "Look,
I don't know who Christi Bradnox is,
665
00:29:57,710 --> 00:30:00,790
"but I want to... this is
what I want to write one day.
666
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,000
"Like, I want to...
I want to be her."
667
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,330
And he goes,
"I'm Christi Bradnox."
668
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,040
And I was like,
"Well, I still want to write like her."
669
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:13,380
Gavin was always very, very funny.
670
00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:15,670
He's a very funny,
very charismatic person,
671
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:17,420
for better or for worse.
672
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:19,330
- Shane isn't.
- Yeah.
673
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,170
He went out with my friend.
674
00:30:21,170 --> 00:30:23,250
I don't give a shit
about talking shit about Shane.
675
00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:25,420
- [Eddie] Yeah.
- He went out with my friend
676
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:30,500
and, like, bought her this
really ugly painting
677
00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:32,380
that was like,
it wasn't a painting.
678
00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:36,210
It was like a sand art,
and she was like,
679
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,790
"Oh, Shane got that for me.
680
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:41,580
"He said that, like,
Buddhists made it,
681
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:45,460
"and it takes them, like, you know,
seven years to do every grain of sand."
682
00:30:45,580 --> 00:30:47,670
And I'm like, "I saw that at the airport."
683
00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:48,420
[Eddie laughs]
684
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:49,830
"But of course
he told you that."
685
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,000
- You know?
- [Eddie] Yeah, yeah.
686
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
[Lesley] Like, I don't care
what you have. Be normal.
687
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,250
Even when you have dinner with Shane,
he always will take my hand and be like,
688
00:30:56,250 --> 00:30:58,420
"This is about to be
the best meal you've ever had."
689
00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:00,750
- And I'm like, “Homie".
- Hundred percent, dude.
690
00:31:00,790 --> 00:31:02,420
"We're at Nobu, dawg.”
691
00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:04,500
[Lesley] It's, like,
not even good anymore.
692
00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:06,250
This is a Japanese Cheesecake Factory.
693
00:31:06,250 --> 00:31:07,830
So, in that sense, like,
694
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,080
both Gavin and Shane do have
like this cult leader thing,
695
00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:13,170
and Gavin probably, like,
696
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:16,670
could have been,
like a really good cult leader.
697
00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:21,880
But I don't really think
that Gavin believes in anything.
698
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,250
I think he believes in jokes.
699
00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:27,000
My name is Gavin McInnes.
700
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,500
I'm judging the Air Guitar
Brooklyn Championships.
701
00:31:31,630 --> 00:31:35,880
My brother has Down syndrome, so I have
a bit of a soft spot for shit like that.
702
00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:39,790
I don't know how you could ever
take this seriously and not be a dick.
703
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:41,130
[Eddie] You were humorous like--
704
00:31:41,130 --> 00:31:43,670
Yeah, it was like Mad Magazine
for grown-ups.
705
00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:46,130
At VICE we weren't journalists.
706
00:31:46,130 --> 00:31:51,130
In fact we probably ruined journalism
for the rest of the world
707
00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:52,710
- that came after.
- Yeah.
708
00:31:52,790 --> 00:31:54,960
Because we were not fact-checkers.
709
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,000
This was all,
"Let's go someplace
710
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,790
"and infiltrate and become part of it,
711
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,380
"and then we'll report back."
712
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:04,080
You have a duty as a journalist.
713
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:05,790
We did not have that.
714
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,710
We did not have those skills.
715
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:09,790
We weren't interested
in being that.
716
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,750
We were biased.
There was nothing journalistic about VICE.
717
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:16,540
And I was super insecure,
you know?
718
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:18,130
Like, I just wanted to, like...
719
00:32:18,130 --> 00:32:20,170
I just wanted like, guys to like me
720
00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:22,670
and to, like,
feel like I was good at my job.
721
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,250
And so...
722
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:28,460
Gavin, who was really like a true believer
723
00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:31,670
in, like anarchy and, like...
724
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,670
would make racist jokes,
I made them, too.
725
00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:42,330
Because I cared more about
being accepted by him
726
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,540
and feeling insecure and wanting to fit in
727
00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,750
than, like what--
than actually hurting people
728
00:32:47,790 --> 00:32:49,210
and what that meant.
729
00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:50,750
And...
730
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:53,670
in retrospect...
731
00:32:55,460 --> 00:32:57,920
I was wrong.
732
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,580
And like, it's not okay,
733
00:32:59,670 --> 00:33:02,290
but also, I can't go back in time.
734
00:33:02,420 --> 00:33:04,920
I just wasn't as smart
as I could have been.
735
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,210
You know, like
I cared more about being cool
736
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:10,790
than I did about being right
or like kind.
737
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:16,750
[Eddie] So I was curious,
what happened that day that Gavin left?
738
00:33:17,290 --> 00:33:21,500
Okay, Gavin had been gone for two weeks
739
00:33:21,580 --> 00:33:24,080
because Sophie--
his daughter Sophie was born.
740
00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:25,250
His first kid.
741
00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:28,670
Prior to that, Gavin had gone to,
742
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:30,420
I believe, it was like a...
743
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,080
{\an8}a David Duke conference.
744
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:35,420
{\an8}I just took it with a grain of salt
745
00:33:35,540 --> 00:33:37,880
{\an8}because that's how I took
everything Gavin said.
746
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,750
{\an8}So he goes to this David Duke thing,
747
00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:41,250
and they lose advertisers.
748
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:43,830
So Shane says, "No bueno.
749
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,290
"Jesse's the editor now.
You're not."
750
00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:49,710
"Why are advertisers pulling?
This is what we do.”
751
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:53,170
"Advertisers are pulling" because you're
associating yourself with David Duke,
752
00:33:53,170 --> 00:33:54,540
"and that's scary,
753
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:59,670
"and so they don't want their product
to be advertised in the magazine.”
754
00:33:59,710 --> 00:34:02,830
"Okay, fuck you.
I'll show you what's scary.”
755
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,920
Right?
756
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:06,670
So then Gavin comes back
from two weeks,
757
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:09,920
and he's like, "Where the fuck is my desk?
Where's all my stuff?"
758
00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:12,000
None of his stuff was there.
759
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,380
He's asking everybody,
like, "Where's my chair?
760
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:15,830
"Have you seen my chair, my desk?
761
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,080
"This isn't my computer.
762
00:34:17,170 --> 00:34:19,210
"What the fuck?"
763
00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:21,170
And everybody's quiet.
764
00:34:21,250 --> 00:34:23,250
[Whispering]
"What the fuck is going on?"
765
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:25,080
"What the fuck?"
766
00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:27,420
And then Gavin just was like,
767
00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:30,420
"Fuck this fucking bullshit, whatever."
768
00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:33,330
Don't know the exact words.
Stormed out.
769
00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:35,580
I don't think he ever
went back to the office.
770
00:34:35,670 --> 00:34:36,920
It was a huge moment,
771
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,830
a huge, pivotal,
traumatic moment for his life.
772
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,580
His entire identity
was that magazine, right?
773
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,580
And he got booted out.
774
00:34:47,540 --> 00:34:50,170
[Eddie] None of us
are born knowing the answers.
775
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:52,790
If people don't get to express themselves
776
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,380
and they don't get to learn
through some of these mistakes,
777
00:34:55,380 --> 00:34:58,080
then you're just bottled up,
and you're like,
778
00:34:58,170 --> 00:35:01,250
- "Okay, I'm gonna keep it to myself."
- Right, and then what happens?
779
00:35:01,250 --> 00:35:03,460
- You're gonna explode.
- You explode and you start...
780
00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:04,540
[Clears throat]
781
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:08,670
a group that is physically scary,
like the Proud Boys.
782
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:11,170
[Pulsing electronic beat]
783
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,380
I went to America...
784
00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:16,790
in the '90s.
785
00:35:17,630 --> 00:35:19,670
Yeah. Boo!
786
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:22,080
Boo it up!
787
00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:25,420
Free speech is very dangerous...
788
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:27,040
to the state.
789
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,540
The government doesn't like free speech,
790
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,920
and they've tricked us
into culturally thinking
791
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,670
that we don't like free speech.
792
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:37,130
We don't like telling stories.
793
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:39,000
We're worried about offending people.
794
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,380
But we're not.
795
00:35:43,290 --> 00:35:45,040
What happened to the West?
796
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,960
We're fighting to be ourselves.
797
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,210
We're fighting to be proud
and unashamed of who we are.
798
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:52,460
And what are we?
799
00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:54,170
We're Westerners!
800
00:35:57,210 --> 00:36:00,830
If you want to come here
and you have those values, come on in.
801
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,670
But if you want to tell us what to do,
you can fuck off.
802
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,540
[Cheers and applause]
803
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,580
I'm so nervous about meeting Eddie.
804
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:14,040
Oh, my god.
Hope he likes me.
805
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,210
{\an8}I don't know Chinese.
Does he speak English?
806
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,920
{\an8}'Cause we could use Google Translate.
807
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,540
[Eddie, voice over] As I was getting ready
to enter the scene,
808
00:36:22,580 --> 00:36:25,330
I could hear Gavin telling
jokes about speaking Chinese.
809
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:28,170
We've met before.
Did you know we did comedy together?
810
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:29,250
Where?
811
00:36:29,330 --> 00:36:31,170
[Gavin] At Brooklyn Brewery.
812
00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:33,540
- [Eddie] No way!
- Yeah. Everyone loved you,
813
00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:36,080
which I suspect is based on race.
814
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:37,330
Yeah, probably.
815
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:40,250
[Eddie, voice over] I felt like his
strategy was to try and shock me,
816
00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:42,210
like he shocks everyone else.
817
00:36:42,210 --> 00:36:45,000
But I didn't want to get
caught in his vortex arguing.
818
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,880
Oh, fuck, I got gum on my pants.
819
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,420
Do you-- you know how to
get gum off your pants?
820
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:51,250
[They laugh]
821
00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:54,460
[Eddie] The positions he takes are so far
outside the realm of reason and logic
822
00:36:54,460 --> 00:36:57,670
that you lose as soon
as you meet him on that ground.
823
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:00,250
- Do you want a drink?
- I'll have a drink. What d'you have?
824
00:37:00,250 --> 00:37:02,710
I'm having Coors Banquet
'cause of the Bud Light incident.
825
00:37:02,750 --> 00:37:04,790
[Eddie] I only wanted to know two things.
826
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,040
- We got Gatorade. We got Jameson.
- I will have the Malibu watermelon.
827
00:37:09,130 --> 00:37:11,630
[Eddie] One, is this truly who you are?
828
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:13,330
- This is all fake.
- Oh, fuck.
829
00:37:13,420 --> 00:37:15,460
This is a fake bar you're in.
You're in a studio.
830
00:37:15,460 --> 00:37:17,920
- I'll come around and see what's real.
- These are all lies.
831
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,250
I'll have a fruit punch
Gatorade with Jameson.
832
00:37:20,330 --> 00:37:21,920
- Oh, that's a fun idea.
- Yeah.
833
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,290
[Eddie] And two,
834
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,380
how the fuck did you let Shane take over
the company that you gave your voice to?
835
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:33,710
The story of VICE
is there's really two stories,
836
00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:36,290
and Shane is the backbone
of both of them.
837
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:38,790
So the first story is my years at VICE,
838
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,630
and that was--
that culture was punk rock.
839
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:44,630
Like everyone's friends,
everyone hangs out, you know.
840
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:46,880
Open floor plan, no offices.
841
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,330
Everyone can hear you on the phone.
842
00:37:49,420 --> 00:37:54,330
So Shane managed to take that esoteric,
hardcore DIY shit
843
00:37:54,420 --> 00:37:55,920
and make it profitable.
844
00:37:56,580 --> 00:37:58,580
Then when I left,
Shane's attitude was,
845
00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:59,830
"Where's the money?"
846
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,880
And the money was with young girls.
847
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,330
"Alright, what are they into?
848
00:38:03,330 --> 00:38:04,540
"I don't care what it is.
849
00:38:04,580 --> 00:38:05,750
"If it's kiddie porn,
850
00:38:05,830 --> 00:38:07,670
"if it's snuff films, what are they into?
851
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:11,080
"Oh, they're into woke shit.
Okay, let's do a bunch of woke shit."
852
00:38:11,170 --> 00:38:13,130
Yeah, I know you got an NDA,
but it's like,
853
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:15,670
did you choose to leave,
or did you get forced out?
854
00:38:18,330 --> 00:38:21,330
I just became incompatible with the brand.
855
00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:25,920
Like, you know,
I had an ad agency after that,
856
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,460
and it got shut down 'cause I said
trans people are mentally ill gays.
857
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:32,210
I think too...
858
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:37,830
the problem
with salesmen is it's not cool.
859
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,580
I think it is cool.
You make the world go round,
860
00:38:41,250 --> 00:38:44,130
but used-car salesmen ruined sales.
861
00:38:44,210 --> 00:38:45,960
And I think Shane hated being the like,
862
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,040
uncool guy for so long.
863
00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:50,540
Yeah, I wanted to ask you
a very real question,
864
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:52,830
and it's like,
one of the main reasons I came,
865
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,580
'cause I watch all your shit,
866
00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:57,960
and I see everything you're doing,
and I know your old work at VICE.
867
00:38:58,210 --> 00:39:01,460
My feeling is
you really are being the person
868
00:39:01,580 --> 00:39:03,170
on some Life of David Gale shit.
869
00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:05,040
What's David Gale?
870
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,000
[Spacey] I'm a murderer four days shy
of his execution.
871
00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:12,380
[Man on film] The murder's way too clumsy.
872
00:39:12,460 --> 00:39:14,250
This guy is a major intellectual.
873
00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:15,880
Life of David Gale is this film
874
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,130
where Kevin Spacey is trying
to overturn capital punishment.
875
00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:23,580
So what he does is
him and his partner set up a murder,
876
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:27,540
but she's killing herself,
and he sets himself up
877
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:29,750
as the person that did the murder,
878
00:39:29,830 --> 00:39:31,790
and when he dies,
they release the video
879
00:39:31,830 --> 00:39:33,580
and realize they killed
an innocent man.
880
00:39:33,630 --> 00:39:37,670
So I'm playing a Hitler character
to expose racists?
881
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:39,920
That's what I think.
882
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,830
- That's a terrible theory.
- That's what I think, Gavin.
883
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,710
But, if you really
believe this shit, then--
884
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:46,080
Believe what shit, though?
885
00:39:46,170 --> 00:39:48,380
Like well I mean,
886
00:39:48,460 --> 00:39:49,880
like...
887
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:51,790
all of it.
888
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,580
{\an8}If your boss grabs your ass
and it doesn't hurt
889
00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:56,210
{\an8}and you don't like it, quit.
890
00:39:56,290 --> 00:39:57,580
{\an8}- [Host] That's harassment.
- Yeah,
891
00:39:57,630 --> 00:39:59,040
{\an8}- that's harassment.
- [Gavin] Okay, then quit.
892
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,790
{\an8}I'm so glad you found it out on TV
893
00:40:00,830 --> 00:40:03,250
{\an8}that you can't grab somebody's ass.
894
00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:04,790
{\an8}I swear to God,
I did not know that.
895
00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:07,080
{\an8}Do you think
white supremacy exists in the US?
896
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:08,630
{\an8}Not to any measurable degree.
897
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:13,330
{\an8}Women do earn less in America
because they choose to.
898
00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:14,880
{\an8}They don't go the extra mile.
They don't work all weekend.
899
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,790
{\an8}Why am I sitting here?
I'm sitting here.
900
00:40:16,830 --> 00:40:19,420
{\an8}You're making a mistake.
You would be much happier at home
901
00:40:19,420 --> 00:40:21,040
{\an8}- with a husband and children.
- Oh, boy.
902
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,670
{\an8}You're not supposed to say it,
903
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:24,670
{\an8}but one of the biggest problems
with Jews is--
904
00:40:24,670 --> 00:40:26,670
{\an8}- Ow! Ow! What the...
- [Laughter]
905
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,880
{\an8}I was gonna say the problem with Jews
is there's not enough of them.
906
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,750
{\an8}[Laughter]
907
00:40:34,290 --> 00:40:36,580
[Gavin] I've never met a bona fide racist.
908
00:40:36,670 --> 00:40:37,880
Like, it's not a thing.
909
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,080
Yet it's all the fucking...
910
00:40:40,170 --> 00:40:43,290
Joe Biden says white supremacy
is the number one threat
911
00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:44,790
to this country, and you're like,
912
00:40:44,830 --> 00:40:47,580
"Okay, can I meet one
of these fucking guys?"
913
00:40:47,630 --> 00:40:49,000
What is this issue?
914
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,330
Yo, I'm wondering if this--
915
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:54,830
you're taking this position
and being this character.
916
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,750
What character?
Like, what position?
917
00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:59,420
I think women would be much happier
at home.
918
00:40:59,540 --> 00:41:01,000
Is that sexist?
919
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,000
I can't tell you how many women
I know that fucking hate their jobs.
920
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,880
But there's a lot of men
that hate their jobs.
921
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,880
Generally men, when they talk about work,
they want to help the other guy.
922
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,460
Women aren't into solutions.
They just wanna bitch.
923
00:41:11,580 --> 00:41:13,040
When you give them a solution,
they're like,
924
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,290
"What the fuck are you doing?
925
00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:15,920
"I'm going to continue bitching."
926
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,960
I have an idea.
927
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,290
I think we should arm wrestle
to see what the truth is.
928
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:22,330
- Okay, I'll arm wrestle you.
- Let's fucking arm wrestle.
929
00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:23,960
So, one, two, three.
930
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,290
- Yes.
- One, two, three.
931
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:28,380
[Straining]
932
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:30,130
Women are happier at home.
933
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:32,040
Amelia Earhart. [Laughing]
934
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,920
Feminism has ruined women.
935
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,750
Gloria Steinem was a shield for Shane.
936
00:41:38,830 --> 00:41:39,420
[Laughing]
937
00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:41,170
Gloria Steinem killed men's clubs.
938
00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:43,000
That's why Proud Boys did so well,
939
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,670
'cause men's clubs are supposed to exist.
940
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:48,710
I'll never get to fuck my wife
again if I lose [laughing].
941
00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:51,960
[Straining]
942
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,710
This sucks.
This sucks.
943
00:41:57,710 --> 00:41:59,630
[Panting]
944
00:42:00,830 --> 00:42:03,130
I guess women are great
in the workforce.
945
00:42:03,210 --> 00:42:06,460
- They're great in the workforce, man.
- I love them suing people.
946
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:08,170
Their stupid HR jobs,
947
00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:11,040
Controlling the company's
social media. [Cackles]
948
00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:14,420
No, I really think everyone
should have the opportunity.
949
00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:16,830
No one's saying
they shouldn't have the opportunity,
950
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,670
but women tend to be happier at home.
951
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:20,330
You don't want government,
952
00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:22,420
you don't like law, but you love rules.
953
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:24,880
- Like, do's and don'ts is rules.
- Yeah, but it's a joke.
954
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,790
I'm not trying to catch you, either.
I'm just--
955
00:42:26,830 --> 00:42:28,880
Right, but I can't--
I don't enforce these rules.
956
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:29,960
But I can have rules.
957
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,420
I do think there is a thing about you
that people are just scared of.
958
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:35,330
What kind of pussy is scared of ideas?
959
00:42:35,330 --> 00:42:36,580
Like a Holocaust denier.
960
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:39,040
That's a pretty horrible idea.
961
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:41,250
Pedophilia, terrible idea.
962
00:42:41,330 --> 00:42:43,420
Say you think all Blacks
should go back to Africa.
963
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:46,000
That's a dumb belief.
It doesn't scare me.
964
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,330
I won't argue with you.
[Laughing]
965
00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:50,380
- No?
- Yo, you are consistent.
966
00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:52,670
Well, I'm too lazy to lie, so.
967
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:58,250
I just wish I could argue with people
about things I believe in, you know?
968
00:42:58,330 --> 00:43:00,750
[Pensive music]
969
00:43:01,250 --> 00:43:03,790
[Eddie] I think what I struggle
with personally
970
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,830
when speaking to Gavin is the idea
that he could possibly believe this shit.
971
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,790
What do you think is in the interest
of your country right now?
972
00:43:10,830 --> 00:43:13,080
{\an8}[Speaking Italian]
973
00:43:17,330 --> 00:43:19,420
{\an8}[Eddie, voice over] I've met
white supremacists.
974
00:43:19,420 --> 00:43:22,460
{\an8}I specialize in talking
to these dumb fucks.
975
00:43:22,580 --> 00:43:25,500
{\an8}When I was interviewing
a white nationalist group, Forza Nuova,
976
00:43:25,540 --> 00:43:27,000
{\an8}on our Sicily episode,
977
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,790
{\an8}a passerby recognized them
978
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,500
{\an8}and challenged them about
their anti-immigration stance,
979
00:43:31,540 --> 00:43:32,710
{\an8}and they didn't like it.
980
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,420
{\an8}[Eddie] Within minutes,
they phoned plainclothes cops
981
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:45,250
{\an8}to arrest us and take our footage.
982
00:43:45,330 --> 00:43:48,000
{\an8}[Men arguing in Italian]
983
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,250
[Man 1] Who cares?
We didn't do anything wrong.
984
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:51,750
[Man 2] Why did they say
they're taking you in?
985
00:43:51,790 --> 00:43:53,880
[Man 1] I fought them
on giving my ID card.
986
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,170
Let's go, guys. Let's go, guys.
987
00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:57,170
Bye-bye. Let's go.
988
00:43:57,670 --> 00:44:00,500
[Eddie] I believe that those people
believe the shit they're saying.
989
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:01,330
[Laughter]
990
00:44:01,420 --> 00:44:05,250
[Eddie] But there's something about Gavin
that makes me feel he knows better.
991
00:44:05,330 --> 00:44:07,130
He knows his opinions are horseshit.
992
00:44:07,210 --> 00:44:10,580
I think he's less a white supremacist
and more of a nihilist,
993
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:14,540
cashing in on this ridiculous caricature
he's turned himself into.
994
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:19,250
And I feel this way because VICE was full
of people like this guy.
995
00:44:19,330 --> 00:44:22,540
{\an8}They get off on having these
ideas and being edgelords
996
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:24,960
{\an8}because making people
feel uncomfortable
997
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,540
{\an8}makes them feel powerful.
998
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,080
It's all a punk rock fake-out.
999
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:34,420
Gavin is still out here making money,
feeding his family,
1000
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:36,210
telling incendiary jokes
1001
00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:38,540
because there's a large swath
of this nation
1002
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:40,460
that takes it as the truth.
1003
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,630
This guy's not crazy.
1004
00:44:42,670 --> 00:44:44,920
He's accidentally representative.
1005
00:44:45,540 --> 00:44:49,790
But how the fuck did Shane
take this man's voice and magazine
1006
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,630
and sell it
to people like Disney?
1007
00:44:52,670 --> 00:44:56,170
[Fireworks exploding ]
1008
00:45:11,330 --> 00:45:14,130
[Eddie] I like being a dad so far,
like three months.
1009
00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:15,880
- [Eddie] I've been enjoying it.
- [Dave laughs]
1010
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,210
[Eddie] It's been cool.
1011
00:45:17,290 --> 00:45:19,670
[Dave] Damn, three months.
You're new. You're fresh in it.
1012
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:21,250
{\an8}[Woman] Hi, guys.
1013
00:45:21,250 --> 00:45:22,960
{\an8}[Eddie] Thank you for
having us here today.
1014
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,500
[Woman] I'm happy to meet you guys.
1015
00:45:24,540 --> 00:45:28,000
[Eddie] Yeah. So I figured you could read
my friend Dave's palm first.
1016
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,670
- Oh, no. [Chuckles]
- Can I see your palms?
1017
00:45:29,710 --> 00:45:32,420
- Yeah.
- Okay, close your eyes.
1018
00:45:32,540 --> 00:45:36,420
[Woman] Well, I do feel that you have
a lot of deja vu, a lot of wisdom.
1019
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:39,000
- [Dave clears throat]
- Do you write a lot?
1020
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,130
Well, yeah.
1021
00:45:40,210 --> 00:45:42,500
I used to write
for a magazine called VICE.
1022
00:45:42,540 --> 00:45:44,210
And I think
those early issues of VICE,
1023
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:46,210
there was an issue
where I painted the cover,
1024
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:48,670
and I wrote like three articles
in it under different names,
1025
00:45:48,670 --> 00:45:50,420
I did the comic strip in the back.
1026
00:45:50,540 --> 00:45:53,330
You know, basically whatever I want.
I could do a goofy hitchhiking show
1027
00:45:53,330 --> 00:45:54,170
and serious news.
1028
00:45:54,250 --> 00:45:56,000
What I loved
about your show though,
1029
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,710
like, besides the camera work
which was phenomenal,
1030
00:45:58,790 --> 00:46:00,040
was it was honest.
1031
00:46:00,130 --> 00:46:01,170
You know what I mean?
1032
00:46:01,210 --> 00:46:03,460
You straight up went
to go find a dinosaur
1033
00:46:03,580 --> 00:46:05,750
and you were like,
"I can't fucking find it."
1034
00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:08,380
- [Burping]
- [Car honking]
1035
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:13,210
[David] We just said
we wanted to see the dinosaur
1036
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:15,580
and they kept saying,
"Do you want to see the dinosaur?
1037
00:46:15,630 --> 00:46:16,920
"Do you wanna see
this dinosaur?"
1038
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,540
"Yes, we want to see the dinosaur."
1039
00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:21,380
So we had to do this ritual.
1040
00:46:21,460 --> 00:46:23,920
So they pour us this clear liquid.
1041
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,420
[Tribal drum rhythm]
1042
00:46:27,540 --> 00:46:29,130
I don't know what was in that stuff.
1043
00:46:29,130 --> 00:46:31,210
And then like some kind of dream
or something,
1044
00:46:31,210 --> 00:46:33,790
this thing just came out
and the people just screamed
1045
00:46:33,830 --> 00:46:36,630
and they were either
saying he's an evil spirit
1046
00:46:36,670 --> 00:46:38,000
or it's the dinosaur.
1047
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,290
And I'm like,
"Oh, I guess that's the dinosaur."
1048
00:46:40,290 --> 00:46:42,040
And as fucked up as I was you know
1049
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:44,000
I was believing it at the time.
1050
00:46:44,330 --> 00:46:46,710
[Woman] But I'm going to say
you had a void.
1051
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:49,750
There was a void energy,
like just a numb energy.
1052
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:53,130
I can feel it, but you tell
me what it was. [Chuckles]
1053
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:54,250
[Dave] Yeah, it was--
1054
00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:56,920
Can you tell if he's still cancelled
by looking at his hand?
1055
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,330
[Laughter]
1056
00:46:59,420 --> 00:47:01,960
Well, I still feel
you have a lot to achieve
1057
00:47:02,210 --> 00:47:04,420
because you're very honest,
you're very pure,
1058
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:06,130
and that's why people saw that.
1059
00:47:07,330 --> 00:47:09,750
[Eddie] You weren't there
when it turned to shit.
1060
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,750
But you still told me not to go.
1061
00:47:11,830 --> 00:47:13,920
Yeah, 'cause I was like,
"You will get fucked over."
1062
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,670
[Eddie] I just thought that because,
like, I had an attorney,
1063
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:18,790
we had a contract,
they're going to owe me money
1064
00:47:18,830 --> 00:47:20,960
- ...because legally in America--
- They do.
1065
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,210
they owe me money.
1066
00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:23,880
You knew you weren't getting
that money.
1067
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,580
[Eddie] No, I genuinely did.
That's where I'm stupid.
1068
00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:27,710
No, you're not stupid.
1069
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:30,540
I think he really did believe.
He really did trust them.
1070
00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:33,630
[Eddie] I saw Shane
fuck a lot of people over.
1071
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:35,380
- Yeah.
- And like, I didn't like it.
1072
00:47:35,380 --> 00:47:37,170
And I did speak up for them.
1073
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:40,750
You know, at VICE they would give
everybody these rings that said VICE.
1074
00:47:40,830 --> 00:47:42,920
- Really?
- And they gave me a gold one,
1075
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,330
but they didn't give anybody else
on my crew the VICE ring.
1076
00:47:46,420 --> 00:47:49,670
So I went and I made 'Rice' rings
for everybody on my crew,
1077
00:47:49,710 --> 00:47:51,580
and I paid for it
because I was just like,
1078
00:47:51,630 --> 00:47:53,830
"Yo, all for one or like none for all."
1079
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,960
- You know, like Goonies.
- [Dave] Right.
1080
00:47:56,670 --> 00:47:59,000
I don't know if you wanna use any
of this for the documentary,
1081
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,380
but like how long do you want
to feel that for?
1082
00:48:01,420 --> 00:48:03,500
- Didn't you just have a baby?
- [Eddie] Yeah, I did.
1083
00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:05,460
- Yeah, you just had a baby.
- [Eddie] Three months old.
1084
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:06,580
Yeah, three-month-old baby.
1085
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:08,710
What a great time
to make a documentary about VICE.
1086
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:10,330
- [Woman] You got your baby.
- Go fucking home
1087
00:48:10,330 --> 00:48:11,670
and be with your kid, dude.
1088
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:13,500
[Dave] This is a weird Chink right here.
1089
00:48:13,540 --> 00:48:14,920
[Woman] Well, you guys have
a connection though.
1090
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,540
You know that.
1091
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:17,420
Oh yeah?
1092
00:48:17,540 --> 00:48:20,540
I mean, he's pretty psychic.
He told me not to go to VICE.
1093
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:23,580
When I met you, you had just written
Fresh Off the Boat.
1094
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:26,380
And you were like a, you know,
it became a huge TV show.
1095
00:48:26,420 --> 00:48:27,790
ABC bought it.
1096
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,460
But I told you from the beginning,
I was like,
1097
00:48:31,580 --> 00:48:34,670
"It's ABC, corporate America,
white television.
1098
00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:36,710
"You think they're gonna
make your book the way--"
1099
00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:38,330
[Woman] It wasn't exactly how
you wrote it, right?
1100
00:48:38,330 --> 00:48:40,670
[Dave] Yeah, and he got angry,
and I was like...
1101
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:42,580
I always thought I could persevere.
1102
00:48:42,670 --> 00:48:44,630
I thought I could be like the change.
1103
00:48:44,670 --> 00:48:48,710
And so how long do you want to keep
repeating that and feeling that feeling?
1104
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:50,670
What is it that you want to manifest?
1105
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:51,790
No, my thing is this.
1106
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,580
I don't think it's about revenge.
1107
00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:56,080
It's justice.
1108
00:48:56,170 --> 00:48:58,130
[Eddie] Other people got fucked
over more than me.
1109
00:48:58,130 --> 00:49:00,420
And I was like,
"Somebody got to say something."
1110
00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:03,330
- [Woman] I believe--
- But why does it have to be you?
1111
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,250
[Eddie] Choe fucking pisses me off
1112
00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,040
because it's easy for him
to say, "Let it go."
1113
00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:11,130
Homie's got Facebook money.
1114
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:15,540
But I also don't fault Choe
because he doesn't know that I'm broke.
1115
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,130
VICE owes me hundreds
of thousands of dollars.
1116
00:49:19,210 --> 00:49:21,540
My son was born three months ago.
1117
00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:23,830
There's a triple strike going on in LA
1118
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,580
and I overdrafted
my bank account this month.
1119
00:49:26,670 --> 00:49:29,830
So yeah, I'm having a lot
of trouble letting this go.
1120
00:49:31,540 --> 00:49:33,330
And sometimes I wonder,
1121
00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:36,670
would life have been better as
the Asian hip-hop Guy Fieri?
1122
00:49:37,330 --> 00:49:39,790
[Funk music]
1123
00:49:48,130 --> 00:49:49,630
Hey, I'm Guy Fieri,
1124
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:52,630
and haven't been
to a new restaurant in 37 seasons.
1125
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:56,170
But when I heard about
Thai Taco Tuesdays at Anajak Thai,
1126
00:49:56,250 --> 00:49:58,460
I just had to come
to Sherman Oaks and check out
1127
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:00,420
what Chef Justin Pichetrungsi's doing.
1128
00:50:00,540 --> 00:50:01,670
Come on in!
1129
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:04,250
It's not fucking open!
1130
00:50:04,330 --> 00:50:06,710
[Rock music]
1131
00:50:09,290 --> 00:50:10,630
Hell yeah, brother.
1132
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:12,460
{\an8}I'm with VICE legend Santiago Stelley.
1133
00:50:12,460 --> 00:50:14,750
{\an8}- How you doing, Santi?
- I'm good, buddy. How you doing?
1134
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:16,670
{\an8}Hell yeah, thanks for being
on Triple D, man.
1135
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:19,130
Weren't you working
on some magazine called Colors before?
1136
00:50:19,130 --> 00:50:21,960
Yeah, so I worked for years
at Colors Magazine.
1137
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,880
My first contact ever with VICE
1138
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:28,040
was because they had taken
a page out of Colors magazine,
1139
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:31,790
literally just ripped it
and published it in VICE
1140
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,630
as some sort of an advert
for a shoe company or something.
1141
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:37,920
Hell no, brother.
I wouldn't even do shit like that.
1142
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,330
I haven't shown up on my show
for fucking 10 seasons,
1143
00:50:40,330 --> 00:50:42,500
but you know not to take
a frame from another show
1144
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:43,670
and put it in your show.
1145
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:47,330
[Santi] Right? So, VICE was just
starting to do video,
1146
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:49,500
and after meeting them,
they asked me if I'd go
1147
00:50:49,540 --> 00:50:52,830
to Bolivia to shoot
a documentary the next day.
1148
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,540
Hell yeah, Bolivia, baby.
[Exaggerated laugh]
1149
00:50:55,630 --> 00:50:56,630
Fucking A.
1150
00:50:56,670 --> 00:51:01,460
And ended up going to shoot
VICE Guide to Travel in 2006.
1151
00:51:01,580 --> 00:51:03,750
What are some of your favorite pieces
from that era?
1152
00:51:03,790 --> 00:51:07,290
I went to Colombia with Thomas Morton
1153
00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:09,330
and with Ryan Duffy,
and in that shoot,
1154
00:51:09,420 --> 00:51:11,210
I think we were there for about two weeks.
1155
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:13,170
We shot "Columbian's Devil's Breath,"
1156
00:51:13,250 --> 00:51:15,080
which is the world's deadliest drug,
1157
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:17,000
on YouTube nowadays,
1158
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,710
"The Sewers of Bogota,"
"Bulletproof Tailor,"
1159
00:51:19,790 --> 00:51:20,710
[Gunshots]
1160
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:22,580
"The Donkey Fucking Piece."
1161
00:51:23,210 --> 00:51:24,880
{\an8}[Speaking Spanish]
1162
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,670
It was just kind of all on the fly.
1163
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:31,920
And when you do things on the fly,
I mean...
1164
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,330
it just has a different energy,
you know?
1165
00:51:36,210 --> 00:51:38,500
{\an8}If you see the "Columbian's
Devil's Breath" piece,
1166
00:51:38,540 --> 00:51:41,920
{\an8}there's a junkie who helps us
to go buy what we need.
1167
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,670
We landed at Bogota,
and 20 minutes after that,
1168
00:51:44,750 --> 00:51:46,330
we were shooting with this guy.
1169
00:51:46,670 --> 00:51:48,960
{\an8}And Ryan kind of built
the whole doc around it.
1170
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,250
{\an8}Those kind of moments,
that kind of spontaneity,
1171
00:51:52,330 --> 00:51:54,750
{\an8}we kind of went into every shoot
1172
00:51:54,830 --> 00:51:56,670
{\an8}with that mentality.
1173
00:51:56,750 --> 00:51:59,790
{\an8}It's hard because that's not
how content is produced, right?
1174
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,670
It's not okay
by the industry standards or whatever.
1175
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:05,630
You gotta help me
get something straight here.
1176
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:11,210
Everybody always says,
"Spike Jonze, creative director of VBS,"
1177
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:12,960
but you're the creative director.
1178
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,960
Can you have two creative directors?
1179
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,920
Well, I mean, the whole Spike thing
was used for years.
1180
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,000
We talked and--
you know, that was--
1181
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:26,330
that was the sales department
or marketing kind of... tool.
1182
00:52:29,460 --> 00:52:31,960
I feel excited
and anxious that, you know,
1183
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,500
just to make sure we actually
seize the opportunity as well as we can.
1184
00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:37,290
I think we're just
at the beginning.
1185
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:40,380
I feel like we've just built the
foundation of what it can be.
1186
00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:42,380
It's like Viceland 1.0 right now.
1187
00:52:43,710 --> 00:52:46,880
[Santi] When we were doing VBS
for the first five, six, seven years,
1188
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,330
you know, I never had
any interaction with Spike.
1189
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:50,920
Neither did anybody else.
1190
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,040
But for the most part,
those formats that went on Viceland,
1191
00:52:54,130 --> 00:52:56,000
as little as I followed it,
1192
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,750
were formats that had
been created on VBS, right?
1193
00:52:58,830 --> 00:53:02,790
They weren't even
VICE dot-com period formats.
1194
00:53:02,830 --> 00:53:05,290
And those formats, now
they seem like obvious things,
1195
00:53:05,290 --> 00:53:08,500
but they weren't at the time.
Nobody was doing any of this stuff.
1196
00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:10,580
As a guy stuck in a scripts format,
1197
00:53:10,670 --> 00:53:13,500
I was always very jealous about the stuff
you guys were doing
1198
00:53:13,540 --> 00:53:14,670
'cause you're breaking form
1199
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:16,790
- ...and, you know, subverting things,
- Yeah.
1200
00:53:16,830 --> 00:53:19,210
and when I have to do my show
talking like this,
1201
00:53:19,290 --> 00:53:20,500
it hurts my throat, man.
1202
00:53:20,580 --> 00:53:25,130
Fuck. Gotta drink so much water
on Triple D just to keep this voice up.
1203
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:27,330
Alright, guys.
1204
00:53:28,330 --> 00:53:31,710
So we got noodle supreme with shrimp.
1205
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:36,130
Pad pong karee.
It's like a Chinese-Thai seafood dish.
1206
00:53:36,210 --> 00:53:39,000
And then we got, you know, Dad's ribs.
1207
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:40,250
Oh, hell yeah.
1208
00:53:40,330 --> 00:53:42,170
- So enjoy.
- Thank you. Appreciate it.
1209
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:44,170
- Thank you.
- [Waiter] Yeah, dig in.
1210
00:53:45,290 --> 00:53:48,420
I think at this point
I can cease being Guy Fieri.
1211
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:49,830
- No.
- There you go.
1212
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,460
The food...
1213
00:53:52,290 --> 00:53:55,580
Oh, man.
Bro, it is so hard to be Guy Fieri.
1214
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:56,750
It's not even funny.
1215
00:53:56,830 --> 00:53:58,580
[Eddie] I have so much more respect
for that guy
1216
00:53:58,630 --> 00:54:00,670
after being Guy Fieri
for like three hours.
1217
00:54:00,710 --> 00:54:02,790
But the shit that you and Jesse did,
1218
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,040
when you were doing it,
1219
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,380
what credit did you get on each piece?
1220
00:54:06,460 --> 00:54:08,250
- There were no directors.
- Yeah.
1221
00:54:08,330 --> 00:54:11,670
But then when you're the guy who went
and spent a month in prison in Colombia,
1222
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:15,830
which is... you know,
stressful, interesting situation.
1223
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,580
Happy I had that opportunity,
1224
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:20,040
but it's a stressful situation to be in.
1225
00:54:20,130 --> 00:54:22,500
And then you're not really
getting credited for it, right?
1226
00:54:22,540 --> 00:54:24,960
The show doesn't jump out
of a bush into the camera.
1227
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,670
- That's right.
- It's directed, captured, hosted,
1228
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:28,920
it's lived.
1229
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,170
And at VICE, the funny thing is,
1230
00:54:31,250 --> 00:54:33,040
no one got a director's credit,
1231
00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:35,290
but Shane and Eddie's names
1232
00:54:35,380 --> 00:54:38,210
are on every single piece
of content at VICE.
1233
00:54:38,290 --> 00:54:41,670
[Eddie] I personally feel that they
didn't give director credits
1234
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:43,830
because they didn't
want people to come up.
1235
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:48,670
Not having the director credit really hurt
a lot of young directors at VICE.
1236
00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:51,210
For production out in the field,
1237
00:54:51,290 --> 00:54:54,290
we were always trying
to send an expert, right?
1238
00:54:54,380 --> 00:54:57,170
Not somebody who's like,
camera-ready but just like,
1239
00:54:57,250 --> 00:54:59,960
somebody who has deep knowledge
on a subject matter.
1240
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,130
For the most part,
people were journalists
1241
00:55:02,130 --> 00:55:05,040
or had some sort of journalistic,
journalism background.
1242
00:55:05,130 --> 00:55:08,380
But in post-production,
all of our editors came from film school.
1243
00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:12,000
And so for a long time,
a lot of the directors were the editors,
1244
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,210
because they were
these kind of film school kids
1245
00:55:14,210 --> 00:55:15,630
who knew how to tell a story,
1246
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:18,290
and they were the ones
just figuring out a pile of tapes.
1247
00:55:18,290 --> 00:55:20,170
What do we do with this, you know?
1248
00:55:20,250 --> 00:55:23,210
And then Shane just kind of sits
in front of this bear
1249
00:55:23,290 --> 00:55:26,380
and regales stories of,
like, his adventures,
1250
00:55:26,460 --> 00:55:29,750
and the assumption is always there that
he's the guy who went and shot this story.
1251
00:55:29,790 --> 00:55:31,960
- [Eddie] Because Shane is a sales guy.
- Yeah.
1252
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,670
[Eddie] He wasn't a creative guy.
1253
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:36,670
But Shane was somebody who you really just
had to give him a little script
1254
00:55:36,670 --> 00:55:38,210
or here's your stand-up,
you know,
1255
00:55:38,210 --> 00:55:39,960
and just bare minimum, man.
1256
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,790
I mean, we shot a ton of interviews
where he just didn't show up.
1257
00:55:43,830 --> 00:55:46,960
Not because-- I mean, he made it
all the way to Guadalajara, Mexico,
1258
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,830
but then he stayed in the hotel
the day of the shoot.
1259
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,170
And then after the shoot,
he inserts himself in post-production.
1260
00:55:53,250 --> 00:55:56,830
And stylistically,
that's off from what we do.
1261
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,210
It's disrespectful.
1262
00:55:58,290 --> 00:56:00,330
Yeah, it was just
very performative, right?
1263
00:56:00,330 --> 00:56:02,880
It was like he would do
these kind of stand-ups.
1264
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,790
He'd wait for the cop car sirens
to be flashing by,
1265
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,670
and then he'd do his, you know,
urgent-sounding stand-up, right?
1266
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:12,960
I went through that process once with him
and just thought, “Man, I can't.
1267
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,040
"Like, this, like,
I'm gonna kill somebody.”
1268
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,040
And I think he probably felt the same way,
1269
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,830
and we never did a production again.
1270
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:20,960
It's a totally different
type of production.
1271
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,420
- Yeah, the Shane production.
- It's a totally different--
1272
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:25,420
- Yeah, it's "Weekend at Bernie's."
- Yeah.
1273
00:56:25,420 --> 00:56:26,420
Yeah.
1274
00:56:27,380 --> 00:56:31,630
[Eddie] How did the VICE on HBO show
come out of your guys' work?
1275
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:33,380
So I'm not credited on the HBO show
1276
00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:35,630
because I left once we'd finished it,
1277
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:37,670
but my credit was removed.
1278
00:56:38,330 --> 00:56:40,750
But that was built off of our story bible.
1279
00:56:40,830 --> 00:56:43,580
I mean, we kept a story bible
in the content department,
1280
00:56:43,630 --> 00:56:47,670
and you know, there were stories that
we looked at for years to make, right?
1281
00:56:47,710 --> 00:56:50,670
And eventually when first the
"VICE Guide to Everything"
1282
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:52,790
came around or the HBO show
came around,
1283
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,170
we just opened up that VICE story bible.
1284
00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:57,040
- [Eddie] And then repurposed them.
- And then repurposed them.
1285
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,540
I mean, a lot of things
were reshot.
1286
00:56:58,580 --> 00:57:02,000
But when it was republished, the credits
at the end were taken off of everything,
1287
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:03,920
and mostly it was interns.
1288
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,420
They'd have them set
up every one of these pieces.
1289
00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:09,210
It literally had been done
five, six years prior.
1290
00:57:09,290 --> 00:57:12,170
I'm Chantal from
the VICE office in Brooklyn.
1291
00:57:12,250 --> 00:57:14,130
I'm Katie from
the VICE office in Brooklyn.
1292
00:57:14,130 --> 00:57:16,330
I'm Chelsea from
the VICE office in Brooklyn.
1293
00:57:16,380 --> 00:57:18,000
- Brooklyn.
- Brooklyn, New York.
1294
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,750
Our colleagues in China spent some time
with Enbo Fight Club.
1295
00:57:20,790 --> 00:57:24,250
Our colleagues over at VICE Colombia
explored the Indigenous queer community
1296
00:57:24,250 --> 00:57:25,790
at an Amazonian beauty pageant.
1297
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,040
This is VICE China's
Out of Place: Part One.
1298
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:29,790
This is Indonesian Death Cult.
1299
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,670
This is Templo de Lucifer.
1300
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:33,290
- Stay tuned.
- Stay tuned.
1301
00:57:33,380 --> 00:57:34,630
Stay tuned.
1302
00:57:34,670 --> 00:57:36,670
[Santi] Which, in fact,
I mean, was a part of why I left.
1303
00:57:36,670 --> 00:57:38,580
I mean, I had spent years
1304
00:57:38,670 --> 00:57:40,710
kind of not being credited for my stuff,
1305
00:57:40,790 --> 00:57:43,130
not being reimbursed for my stuff.
1306
00:57:43,210 --> 00:57:45,580
And on top of it, like, you know,
1307
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:48,290
I was told for a whole long time
1308
00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:52,170
that they were gonna stop with
this Spike Jonze kind of pitch, you know,
1309
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:54,960
and that they'd give credit
where credit was due, and they did not.
1310
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,960
I mean, there was none of that
at any point.
1311
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,830
So at some point,
you're like, "You know what?
1312
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,670
I'm out of here.
What's the purpose?"
1313
00:58:01,420 --> 00:58:04,250
[Eddie, voice over] Hearing Santiago talk
about the Shane production
1314
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:07,920
reminded me of this infamous
David Carr piece on VICE.
1315
00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:12,290
It was the first time
I ever heard someone call out
1316
00:58:12,330 --> 00:58:15,630
VICE's bullshit style
of quote-unquote "journalism".
1317
00:58:19,460 --> 00:58:21,790
If you're a CNN viewer and you go,
1318
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,130
"Hm, I'm looking at human shit
on the beach."
1319
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:28,880
I'm going to tell you one thing.
I'm a regular guy.
1320
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,130
And I go to these places and I go, okay,
everyone talked to me about cannibalism.
1321
00:58:33,210 --> 00:58:35,080
Right? Everyone talked to me
about cannibalism.
1322
00:58:35,130 --> 00:58:38,580
Now I'm getting a lot of shit for saying
what cannibalism stuff, whatever.
1323
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:40,250
Everyone talked to me about cannibalism!
1324
00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:43,130
Yeah, most of my boys,
they would drain the blood
1325
00:58:43,210 --> 00:58:45,670
from an innocent child
and drink it before going to battle.
1326
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:47,790
- So you kill the child?
- Yes.
1327
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,630
- And then you drink the blood?
- Yeah.
1328
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:52,250
I lifted it up to the temple.
I'm gonna eat it.
1329
00:58:52,330 --> 00:58:53,920
[Shane] That's fucking crazy.
1330
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,670
So our audience goes,
"That's fucking insane, that's nuts."
1331
00:58:57,710 --> 00:59:00,710
And New York Times
meanwhile is writing about surfing.
1332
00:59:00,790 --> 00:59:02,880
And I'm sitting there going,
you know what,
1333
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,670
I'm not gonna talk about surfing.
I'm gonna talk about cannibalism.
1334
00:59:05,710 --> 00:59:08,420
- 'Cause that fucks me up.
- Just a sec, time out.
1335
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,920
Before you ever went there,
1336
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,210
we've had reporters there
1337
00:59:13,290 --> 00:59:15,750
reporting on genocide after genocide.
1338
00:59:15,830 --> 00:59:20,630
Just 'cause you put on a fucking safari
helmet and went and looked at some poop,
1339
00:59:20,670 --> 00:59:22,830
doesn't give you the right
to insult what we do.
1340
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,290
So continue, continue.
1341
00:59:25,420 --> 00:59:28,670
I'm just saying that I'm not a journalist.
I'm not there to report.
1342
00:59:28,670 --> 00:59:29,790
Obviously.
1343
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,580
[Eddie, voice over] This interview
really changed the culture at VICE.
1344
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:34,880
It went all around the office,
and for the first time,
1345
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,380
we'd seen our bosses
get spanked in public.
1346
00:59:37,830 --> 00:59:40,580
The immediate reaction
from the top down
1347
00:59:40,670 --> 00:59:44,670
was that we needed the respect
of real journalists like David Carr.
1348
00:59:44,750 --> 00:59:47,040
In retrospect,
it was the right instinct
1349
00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:49,710
to consider accountability as journalists.
1350
00:59:49,790 --> 00:59:52,580
And this kicked off perhaps
the most productive era
1351
00:59:52,670 --> 00:59:55,210
at VICE since Gavin left.
1352
00:59:55,290 --> 00:59:57,880
[Rhythmic hand claps]
1353
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,500
{\an8}Hi, I'm Shane Smith.
We're here in the offices of VICE.
1354
01:00:00,540 --> 01:00:01,790
We shoot a lot of stuff here.
1355
01:00:01,830 --> 01:00:03,880
These are all the magazine covers
over the years.
1356
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:05,460
We've been doing this a long time.
1357
01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:08,250
We started out as a magazine,
then we went into online video.
1358
01:00:08,250 --> 01:00:10,000
Most recently,
our YouTube channels
1359
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,000
like VICE, Creators Project,
Motherboard, Noisey.
1360
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,830
But what I want to show you today
1361
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,080
is something brand new
and really exciting.
1362
01:00:17,170 --> 01:00:18,670
We're gonna go check it out.
Come with me.
1363
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:20,540
- Come with me.
- [Upbeat music]
1364
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:24,210
[Eddie] After the rise of VBS and
verticals like Munchies and Noisey,
1365
01:00:24,790 --> 01:00:27,580
Shane's next trip was VICE on HBO.
1366
01:00:27,670 --> 01:00:30,210
And with the Dennis Rodman
North Korea episode,
1367
01:00:30,290 --> 01:00:33,000
VICE's power was undeniable.
1368
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:34,210
♪ I saw you there ♪
1369
01:00:34,290 --> 01:00:35,380
♪ You were walking
down the street ♪
1370
01:00:35,380 --> 01:00:36,880
♪ You stay awake, ♪
1371
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,920
[Eddie] Shane had combined
hard-hitting, front line news
1372
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,460
with insane access
and entertainment value.
1373
01:00:43,580 --> 01:00:44,670
♪ I saw you there, ♪
1374
01:00:44,750 --> 01:00:46,000
♪ You were walking
down the street ♪
1375
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,210
♪ Walking downtown ♪
1376
01:00:47,290 --> 01:00:48,750
♪ Make me dance to the beat ♪
1377
01:00:48,830 --> 01:00:52,000
While they preserved the integrity
of the VICE on HBO show,
1378
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,040
Shane spun a multitude of businesses
off the reputation of that show,
1379
01:00:56,170 --> 01:00:58,540
and every investor wanted a piece.
1380
01:01:00,710 --> 01:01:02,540
[Song ends]
1381
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:06,210
One of the most
successful ventures was VICE News.
1382
01:01:06,790 --> 01:01:10,420
And its most decorated
journalist was Simon Ostrovsky.
1383
01:01:10,540 --> 01:01:12,460
- [Shane] Simon, hi.
- [Simon] Yeah, hi.
1384
01:01:12,540 --> 01:01:14,330
My name is Shane.
I'm from America.
1385
01:01:14,420 --> 01:01:17,920
We're here with our friend Simon.
We've been on a train for a long time.
1386
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:19,130
We're going a bit goofy.
1387
01:01:19,130 --> 01:01:22,250
[Simon] At the VICE office,
they had a screen at the entry
1388
01:01:22,330 --> 01:01:25,880
{\an8}where you would see
a part of this story on loop
1389
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,330
{\an8}where I'm riding the train with Shane.
1390
01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:31,420
[Soulful saxophone]
1391
01:01:31,540 --> 01:01:35,540
The interim between
sort of mildly friendly drunk
1392
01:01:35,630 --> 01:01:38,040
and psychopathically
pull-your-eyeball-out drunk,
1393
01:01:38,130 --> 01:01:39,630
there's this sort of level of like,
1394
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:41,500
"I hate your fucking guts.
No, you're okay.
1395
01:01:41,540 --> 01:01:43,710
"We're buddies, we're buddies.
I want to kill you."
1396
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:47,630
So you've got to stay
somewhere in this gauge.
1397
01:01:48,330 --> 01:01:50,290
[Eddie] I remember seeing this clip.
1398
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:53,790
We were like, "Oh, shit, this is Shane's,
like, serious news friend."
1399
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,130
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1400
01:01:55,210 --> 01:01:57,960
So everybody at VICE thought
me and Shane were super tight,
1401
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,000
- [Eddie] Yeah.
- which was not the case.
1402
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,040
How did you meet Shane and come to VICE?
1403
01:02:02,130 --> 01:02:05,170
Shane saw something
that I put out on the BBC,
1404
01:02:05,250 --> 01:02:10,170
which was an investigation into the use of
North Korean labor in Russia.
1405
01:02:10,250 --> 01:02:13,500
{\an8}[Simon narrating] We headed further along
the road into the forest,
1406
01:02:13,540 --> 01:02:15,830
{\an8}and before long,
we began to see signs
1407
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,880
{\an8}of woodcutting activity
in the area.
1408
01:02:19,540 --> 01:02:21,290
{\an8}After four hours on the track,
1409
01:02:21,380 --> 01:02:25,290
we finally found a group
of North Koreans hard at work.
1410
01:02:25,380 --> 01:02:27,330
[Simon] There were these logging camps,
1411
01:02:27,330 --> 01:02:30,420
and these were essentially,
like labor camps that were put together
1412
01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:32,880
with all the North Korean propaganda,
1413
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,920
and Shane's producer saw that report,
1414
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,750
knew that Shane was obsessed
with North Korea,
1415
01:02:38,830 --> 01:02:41,380
and he was like,
"Can you produce this for Shane?
1416
01:02:41,460 --> 01:02:44,460
"We'll do a whole thing
for this thing called VBS TV."
1417
01:02:44,580 --> 01:02:47,380
You know? And I'd never heard
of VICE at that point,
1418
01:02:47,460 --> 01:02:50,170
so I had no idea who Shane was,
1419
01:02:50,250 --> 01:02:53,330
and he comes in,
and the first thing he does is,
1420
01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:59,210
like, start telling me how...
awful and bullshit the BBC is,
1421
01:02:59,250 --> 01:03:03,000
because I think he had a really big chip
on his shoulder about legacy media.
1422
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,250
Yes. I was in a hot tub with him once,
1423
01:03:05,330 --> 01:03:08,750
and he told me that him and Elon Musk
were gonna buy the BBC,
1424
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:11,580
and I was like,
"Isn't that a government channel?
1425
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:14,290
"Like, wouldn't you have
to buy like England first?"
1426
01:03:14,380 --> 01:03:17,330
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's a public broadcaster.
1427
01:03:17,420 --> 01:03:20,080
You can't buy the BBC.
It's, like, ridiculous.
1428
01:03:21,130 --> 01:03:25,210
[Simon] Probably one of the most
embarrassing incidents of my entire life
1429
01:03:25,290 --> 01:03:27,380
took place on that very first shoot.
1430
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:31,000
We're standing in at one
of these remote North Korean labor camps
1431
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,250
and there is a North Korean guy,
and Shane walks up to him,
1432
01:03:34,330 --> 01:03:38,290
and he starts singing
this national Korean song.
1433
01:03:38,380 --> 01:03:41,080
And he starts going...
[Sings in Korean]
1434
01:03:41,170 --> 01:03:43,170
[Laughing]
1435
01:03:43,250 --> 01:03:46,420
And I'm like, "What is happening
right now? What are you doing?"
1436
01:03:46,790 --> 01:03:50,670
[Singing in Korean]
1437
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,170
Okay.
1438
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:57,130
[Woman singing in Korean]
1439
01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:11,630
[Simon] I think kind of nobody
knew what they were doing,
1440
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:13,710
so there were no rules.
1441
01:04:13,790 --> 01:04:16,040
We could just do whatever we wanted.
1442
01:04:16,130 --> 01:04:18,290
It was the Outback Steakhouse of media.
1443
01:04:18,380 --> 01:04:20,000
No rules. Just right.
1444
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:23,540
[Laughing] Until it all
fucking went to shit.
1445
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:25,580
- Yeah.
- You're an actual journalist.
1446
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:26,790
In your opinion,
1447
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,130
what do you think was that secret sauce
1448
01:04:29,210 --> 01:04:30,960
that you guys figured out
on the news side?
1449
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,290
Well, so we figured out,
1450
01:04:32,380 --> 01:04:36,540
A, that if you go places
and show things from the ground,
1451
01:04:37,830 --> 01:04:39,250
people will watch.
1452
01:04:39,330 --> 01:04:41,380
You don't even have
to release it on the same day.
1453
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:42,630
You don't have to be first.
1454
01:04:42,670 --> 01:04:44,130
You just have to tell a story.
1455
01:04:44,210 --> 01:04:47,130
Let's say there was some
kind of a pro-Russia protest
1456
01:04:47,210 --> 01:04:49,880
that erupts outside
of a Ukrainian naval base
1457
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,380
that's being held hostage
by the Russians, right?
1458
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:55,710
{\an8}[Reporter] In the scenes of
escalating violence in eastern Ukraine
1459
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:58,250
{\an8}this one is particularly sobering.
1460
01:05:00,540 --> 01:05:02,750
{\an8}[Simon] CNN has a 2pm deadline,
1461
01:05:02,830 --> 01:05:04,880
{\an8}so they film a few shots of B-roll,
1462
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,670
{\an8}they go back and they put it
on TV the same day.
1463
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,290
{\an8}[Speaking Ukrainian]
1464
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,380
[Tear gas popping]
1465
01:05:20,540 --> 01:05:21,920
{\an8}[Simon] We stayed there all day,
1466
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,630
{\an8}developed characters to see
what would happen to them,
1467
01:05:24,670 --> 01:05:26,040
{\an8}like what was their fate.
1468
01:05:26,130 --> 01:05:28,130
{\an8}[Man] A bunch of guys put him
into the back of the car.
1469
01:05:28,130 --> 01:05:29,920
{\an8}It doesn't look very official to me.
1470
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,630
{\an8}[Simon] And we tried to use
as little voice over as possible.
1471
01:05:32,670 --> 01:05:34,710
{\an8}You know, we tried to let
all of the people
1472
01:05:34,790 --> 01:05:37,380
{\an8}that we were filming speak for themselves.
1473
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:42,290
{\an8}And sure, we didn't
put it out as fast as CNN did.
1474
01:05:42,380 --> 01:05:45,420
{\an8}We put it out the next day
or two days later, even three days later.
1475
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:47,040
Our viewers didn't care,
1476
01:05:47,130 --> 01:05:50,330
because they were seeing something
that they never saw before.
1477
01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:54,380
[Chanting in Russian]
Russia! Russia! Russia!
1478
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,630
{\an8}[Simon] Like they were seeing
what people's lives were actually like.
1479
01:06:07,330 --> 01:06:09,750
- [Tear gas popping]
- [Crowd clamoring]
1480
01:06:10,790 --> 01:06:12,670
We didn't get a chance
to thank--
1481
01:06:12,750 --> 01:06:15,630
we wanna thank Eddy Moretti,
we started the whole show together,
1482
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:18,670
and our show runner,
Vijay, who is awesome.
1483
01:06:19,290 --> 01:06:22,250
[Eddie] When the company
really got supercharged
1484
01:06:22,330 --> 01:06:25,330
and started to win awards,
a lot of it was your work,
1485
01:06:25,420 --> 01:06:27,540
you know, especially in the Ukraine.
1486
01:06:27,630 --> 01:06:29,460
[Simon] Thank you for saying that.
1487
01:06:30,540 --> 01:06:34,170
It was really jarring
when VICE News got taken over
1488
01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:36,750
by this corporate hack
named Josh Tyrangiel.
1489
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:41,290
The reason that HBO
and the Showtimes of the world
1490
01:06:41,380 --> 01:06:43,880
were interested in VICE
as a news outlet
1491
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,080
was because of the
initial VICE News team
1492
01:06:46,170 --> 01:06:48,630
that I created with a bunch
of other people.
1493
01:06:48,670 --> 01:06:52,960
And so it was really weird
when the guys who sort of created the buzz
1494
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:57,580
around the news operation
at VICE all get thrown out.
1495
01:06:57,670 --> 01:07:00,000
It was all about loyalty for him.
1496
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,170
That was Josh Tyrangiel's position.
1497
01:07:02,250 --> 01:07:04,040
"We have to get rid of the old team.
1498
01:07:04,130 --> 01:07:07,420
"Everybody has to sort of follow
my each and every command,
1499
01:07:07,540 --> 01:07:11,040
"and I need to know that they're going
to be loyal to me and to me only."
1500
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,210
But he couldn't like, really fire me
1501
01:07:13,290 --> 01:07:15,170
like he did the rest
of the VICE News team.
1502
01:07:15,170 --> 01:07:17,130
I was, you know, too big a deal.
1503
01:07:17,210 --> 01:07:20,830
I'd spent three days, you know,
in a cellar with a bag over my head,
1504
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,670
getting the shit kicked out
of me by militants in Ukraine.
1505
01:07:27,250 --> 01:07:29,670
{\an8}[Camera clicking]
1506
01:07:43,540 --> 01:07:46,580
[Simon] Josh was not able
to fire me like you know,
1507
01:07:46,670 --> 01:07:48,710
because it would
have been a bad look.
1508
01:07:48,790 --> 01:07:51,580
So he just tried to make
my life so miserable
1509
01:07:51,790 --> 01:07:54,210
that I would want to leave myself.
1510
01:07:54,290 --> 01:07:57,670
He made my raise conditional
on me moving to London.
1511
01:07:57,750 --> 01:08:02,290
He wanted to recalculate
my salary into British pounds,
1512
01:08:02,380 --> 01:08:05,880
but the pound was collapsing
at the time because of Brexit.
1513
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,750
- Yeah.
- And I was like, "Okay.
1514
01:08:07,830 --> 01:08:10,500
"Well, you can't use this calculation
from a month ago
1515
01:08:10,580 --> 01:08:11,710
"when you gave me my raise.
1516
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:13,710
"That's a twenty percent pay cut
into nothing."
1517
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:16,500
- And you had to move to London?
- And I had to move to London for it.
1518
01:08:16,540 --> 01:08:19,170
And you know who all
of this was being done through?
1519
01:08:19,250 --> 01:08:20,290
Nancy Ashbrook.
1520
01:08:20,380 --> 01:08:22,170
You know who she is?
1521
01:08:22,250 --> 01:08:24,630
The Harvey Weinstein...?
1522
01:08:24,670 --> 01:08:27,580
The Harvey Weinstein HR lady.
1523
01:08:27,670 --> 01:08:28,880
Tough as bricks.
1524
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,330
I mean, she was...
1525
01:08:30,420 --> 01:08:34,330
I remember the higher-ups at VICE were,
like, quite proud that they got her.
1526
01:08:34,420 --> 01:08:36,920
And I was like,
"Dude, it's the Harvey Weinstein--
1527
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,920
"Like why are you guys proud of this?"
1528
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:40,880
Like, "Yo, she's fucking sick."
1529
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,380
Yeah, and Shane was always saying stuff
like that about his new hires.
1530
01:08:45,460 --> 01:08:47,750
But, you know credit where credit is due.
1531
01:08:47,830 --> 01:08:50,920
There was a sweet moment in, like, 2015
1532
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,630
where every legacy media
around the world
1533
01:08:53,670 --> 01:08:56,460
was, like, interested
in what VICE was doing.
1534
01:08:56,580 --> 01:09:01,130
- Which to me, only makes it more tragic
- Yes.
1535
01:09:01,210 --> 01:09:04,040
that as soon as they had
cracked that code,
1536
01:09:04,130 --> 01:09:06,290
they threw it all out the window.
1537
01:09:06,380 --> 01:09:09,210
You know like some people don't learn
from their mistakes.
1538
01:09:09,210 --> 01:09:11,670
VICE doesn't learn from its successes.
1539
01:09:11,710 --> 01:09:16,000
So we still have the long-form VICE News
documentaries that you know us for,
1540
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,880
but we're also gonna be doing
a lot more short-form stuff
1541
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,170
breaking news,
live-streaming news,
1542
01:09:21,210 --> 01:09:24,460
and then we're gonna have a
whole halo of text and photos
1543
01:09:24,580 --> 01:09:25,830
and social media around it.
1544
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:27,920
You're gonna get all that stuff
you know VICE for,
1545
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,250
but also a lot more VICE News. Bango.
1546
01:09:33,380 --> 01:09:37,750
[Eddie] 2014 was the beginning
of VICE's peak financial success.
1547
01:09:37,830 --> 01:09:42,420
Shane had convinced everyone that VICE
was not only the future of digital media,
1548
01:09:42,540 --> 01:09:45,460
but also news and journalism
in this country.
1549
01:09:45,580 --> 01:09:47,330
Why is VICE worth so much
fucking money?
1550
01:09:47,330 --> 01:09:48,330
- Yes.
- $4 billion.
1551
01:09:48,420 --> 01:09:49,830
- $4 billion.
- They got a word in.
1552
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,790
- More than $4 billion.
- [Kara] Okay. $4.4 billion.
1553
01:09:51,830 --> 01:09:53,250
- There you go.
- [Kara] All right. Okay.
1554
01:09:53,290 --> 01:09:54,880
So that's $400 million.
1555
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,460
- I'm not good at math.
- You just rounded it down.
1556
01:09:57,460 --> 01:09:59,580
- We rounded it down.
- Why? Because you guys are mean.
1557
01:09:59,630 --> 01:10:02,080
- No. Okay.
- If you were nice, you'd say "five."
1558
01:10:02,170 --> 01:10:03,380
- Okay.
- You'd round it up.
1559
01:10:03,380 --> 01:10:04,380
- Ten.
- Anyway...
1560
01:10:04,460 --> 01:10:05,460
- Ten.
- Ten.
1561
01:10:05,580 --> 01:10:07,000
- Ten.
- That's what I would say.
1562
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,290
- Yes.
- [Audience laughs]
1563
01:10:08,420 --> 01:10:09,920
'Cause I'm Shane.
1564
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:14,000
So the whole thing is, is we sit there,
and we said, "Okay."
1565
01:10:14,460 --> 01:10:16,250
[Eddie, voice over] In 2014,
1566
01:10:16,330 --> 01:10:20,380
VICE sold a ten percent share
of VICE Media to A+E Networks,
1567
01:10:20,460 --> 01:10:22,830
a joint venture of Hearst and Disney,
1568
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,330
for $250 million,
1569
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,710
valuing the company at $2.5 billion.
1570
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,750
In the same year,
1571
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:39,460
Shane was compensated
to the tune of $78,482,292.
1572
01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:42,250
Then in November 2015,
1573
01:10:42,330 --> 01:10:47,880
news broke the A+E cable channel H2
would be rebranded as Viceland.
1574
01:10:48,580 --> 01:10:50,420
A month later,
1575
01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:53,630
Disney doubled its stake
in VICE Media to $400 million,
1576
01:10:53,670 --> 01:10:56,830
and the company
was valued at $4 billion.
1577
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:59,960
The next year, in 2015,
1578
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,540
it was reported that Disney
offered to buy VICE
1579
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:05,580
for $3 billion, but Shane declined,
1580
01:11:05,670 --> 01:11:07,790
claiming that in the next decade,
1581
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,330
VICE would be worth $50 billion.
1582
01:11:11,130 --> 01:11:13,750
I used to have a personal relationship
with Shane.
1583
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:16,040
I looked up to the guy and trusted him.
1584
01:11:16,130 --> 01:11:18,960
For years, I requested an accounting
of my residuals,
1585
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,580
and there was no response from VICE.
1586
01:11:21,670 --> 01:11:23,130
But I never bothered Shane.
1587
01:11:23,710 --> 01:11:27,290
When VICE started to miss payments
to employees and vendors,
1588
01:11:27,420 --> 01:11:30,210
I caught wind and hired an auditor
to look into my case.
1589
01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:33,880
By the time the auditor discovered
that VICE owed me
1590
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,170
hundreds of thousands of dollars
and never reported it,
1591
01:11:37,250 --> 01:11:38,830
they went bankrupt.
1592
01:11:40,710 --> 01:11:42,580
I reached out to Shane about this,
1593
01:11:42,670 --> 01:11:44,460
and this was his response.
1594
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:59,580
Eventually, the story became
bigger than my residuals,
1595
01:11:59,630 --> 01:12:01,540
and I started to ask questions.
1596
01:12:08,670 --> 01:12:13,330
But the only question he ever bothered
to respond to was this.
1597
01:12:30,290 --> 01:12:32,670
We're about to show you
financial documents
1598
01:12:32,750 --> 01:12:34,960
we received from a whistleblower
1599
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,170
who declined to appear
in this documentary.
1600
01:12:38,210 --> 01:12:41,830
{\an8}In late 2016, Shane and VICE
went back to Disney,
1601
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,880
{\an8}looking to be acquired,
but the jig was up.
1602
01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:50,130
By the time Disney did diligence in 2016,
1603
01:12:50,210 --> 01:12:53,380
all of VICE's numbers
were down across the board.
1604
01:12:54,170 --> 01:12:58,630
At that point, when the cracks started
to appear in VICE's financial picture,
1605
01:12:58,670 --> 01:13:01,250
{\an8}Shane doubled down
on his bullshit sales pitch
1606
01:13:01,330 --> 01:13:03,330
{\an8}and took on even more money.
1607
01:13:03,380 --> 01:13:05,670
But with that money
came the pressure
1608
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:07,710
to continue scaling the brand,
1609
01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:09,670
and we all felt it as creatives.
1610
01:13:10,830 --> 01:13:12,710
VICE is one of the few brands
1611
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:16,000
that really connects in a
meaningful way with millennials
1612
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:17,670
as their center sweet spot.
1613
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:19,750
{\an8}So I think that's--
it's the millennials
1614
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:22,250
{\an8}that we want to get excited
about our business,
1615
01:13:22,330 --> 01:13:24,330
{\an8}and so VICE is the perfect fit.
1616
01:13:27,670 --> 01:13:30,580
[Eddie] For me, going Viceland,
it was a big mistake.
1617
01:13:30,670 --> 01:13:33,630
We were crushing the Internet.
The Internet's the future.
1618
01:13:33,670 --> 01:13:36,670
Why would you go backwards and partner
with this bum channel A+E?
1619
01:13:36,710 --> 01:13:38,420
Like, I don't watch anything on A+E.
1620
01:13:38,420 --> 01:13:40,630
Doing the worst thing
possible is hot.
1621
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:44,210
Like, doing-- like,
'cause that's how he got them.
1622
01:13:44,290 --> 01:13:47,670
'Cause he was like, "I will get
the children to watch television."
1623
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:49,670
And they were like,
"Oh, oh, oh."
1624
01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:51,880
That's what got things to the four billy.
1625
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,380
They had to take it there,
1626
01:13:53,460 --> 01:13:55,880
which I respect,
but it was never gonna work.
1627
01:13:57,250 --> 01:13:59,460
[Eddie] Do you think
it had to go this way,
1628
01:13:59,580 --> 01:14:03,830
or do you think the culture that, like,
we all contributed to could have survived
1629
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:05,330
without this fucking flameout?
1630
01:14:05,330 --> 01:14:07,420
I just think like,
adults got in the room.
1631
01:14:07,540 --> 01:14:09,580
You know what I'm saying?
I think that grown-ups...
1632
01:14:09,630 --> 01:14:10,670
[Eddie] The cops came.
1633
01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:12,130
I think the cops came.
I'm serious.
1634
01:14:12,130 --> 01:14:13,790
And once the cops came
and were like,
1635
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:16,420
"Let's do, like,
disruptive hyper-vertical
1636
01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:18,670
"like cloud-iterated,
end-to-end, snackable,
1637
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:21,790
"stackable like fucking content,"
then like you're fucked.
1638
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,290
People are like,
"Alright, how do we do this again?
1639
01:14:24,290 --> 01:14:27,580
"How do we formulaically,
algorithmically do this again?"
1640
01:14:27,670 --> 01:14:29,000
The way to stay ill is
to be like,
1641
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,750
"No, we did that.
Let's do some new shit.
1642
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:32,580
- "Let's do that."
- That's what I'm saying.
1643
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:35,420
They were then being like,
"Well, here's what the data says.
1644
01:14:35,420 --> 01:14:37,000
"Here's what the kids are into."
1645
01:14:37,790 --> 01:14:39,920
And then, like, backing stuff into that.
1646
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,330
That's not how you do it.
1647
01:14:41,420 --> 01:14:44,710
It really was coming from,
like Shane and Eddy Moretti
1648
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:47,630
because they wanted us
to be more advertiser-friendly,
1649
01:14:47,670 --> 01:14:49,830
and that's when we lost our voice.
1650
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,080
In fairness to Gavin,
1651
01:14:51,130 --> 01:14:54,080
the reason he left was
that he didn't want any of this shit.
1652
01:14:55,330 --> 01:14:58,130
[Eddie] Bro, what do you think
Shane is doing right now?
1653
01:14:58,210 --> 01:15:02,960
Like, after going from four billy
to no billy to like bankrupt?
1654
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,630
If someone offers you four bill, take it.
1655
01:15:05,670 --> 01:15:06,920
- [Eddie] Take it.
- Like, I get it.
1656
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:08,210
It's kind of a flex.
1657
01:15:08,290 --> 01:15:10,540
Like, "No, $8 billion."
1658
01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:11,880
- Yeah.
- You know what I mean?
1659
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:13,920
Like, that's sick, but also like zero.
1660
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,380
- I think it's gamblers' way.
- [Fat Jew] It's a scam. Yeah. Go harder
1661
01:15:16,380 --> 01:15:18,920
I feel like Shane's gamblers'
brain was just like,
1662
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,000
"No, I'm gonna fucking win
the next hand."
1663
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,540
Just go fucking nuts.
1664
01:15:22,630 --> 01:15:24,210
I watched this fool gamble in Vegas,
1665
01:15:24,210 --> 01:15:27,830
and it was like,
we went for the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight,
1666
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,380
{\an8}and we started gambling before the fight.
1667
01:15:30,460 --> 01:15:32,290
{\an8}He went down a half million dollars
1668
01:15:32,380 --> 01:15:33,880
{\an8}and then didn't even
go to the fight.
1669
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:35,630
He gives me his ticket, and he's like,
1670
01:15:35,670 --> 01:15:37,790
"Yo, go to the fight
without me, whatever."
1671
01:15:38,710 --> 01:15:42,670
I go to the fight, and I'm there sitting
with fucking Paulie Walnuts,
1672
01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:44,710
half the cast of "The Sopranos,"
1673
01:15:44,790 --> 01:15:47,250
watching the fucking fight.
1674
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:49,670
He went to his room
and got a private dealer,
1675
01:15:49,710 --> 01:15:53,080
opened up like,
nine bottles of fucking DRC,
1676
01:15:53,170 --> 01:15:54,710
and was just gambling the whole time,
1677
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:57,000
- never made it to the fight.
- You have a problem, sir.
1678
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:58,750
Sir, you have a problem.
1679
01:15:58,830 --> 01:16:02,000
[Eddie] Eddy Moretti to me is the one
that creatively tanked the whole shit.
1680
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,210
Eddy Moretti and his stupid hat, man.
1681
01:16:04,290 --> 01:16:05,710
- Spaghetti Moretti.
- Spaghetti.
1682
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:08,790
[Fat Jew] I think, like,
the number one moment for me
1683
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:10,880
that was the most magical
is like,
1684
01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:14,170
we were smoking a dip.
1685
01:16:14,250 --> 01:16:17,670
We were smoking formaldehyde
like right outside the VICE office.
1686
01:16:17,710 --> 01:16:19,670
[Eddie] What's that high like?
I just have to stop and--
1687
01:16:19,710 --> 01:16:22,380
It's just like, not that fun.
You're just like, "Ahh."
1688
01:16:22,380 --> 01:16:24,880
Like, you just don't feel good,
which is kind of cool.
1689
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,330
And I remember looking inside,
and we were smoking,
1690
01:16:27,330 --> 01:16:30,330
and I'm like, "Who is that sitting
in the lobby? I recognize that guy."
1691
01:16:30,330 --> 01:16:31,670
Turns out it's Rupert Murdoch.
1692
01:16:31,670 --> 01:16:34,580
He was sort of courting them
on some level.
1693
01:16:34,670 --> 01:16:36,250
I was like in that moment, I think,
1694
01:16:36,250 --> 01:16:37,750
when you're, like, smoking a dip,
1695
01:16:37,790 --> 01:16:39,170
basically next
to Rupert Murdoch,
1696
01:16:39,170 --> 01:16:41,330
- Like, that's the fucking thing.
- [Eddie] That's crazy.
1697
01:16:41,330 --> 01:16:43,420
But how long can something like that last?
1698
01:16:43,460 --> 01:16:45,210
You know what I'm saying? It can't.
1699
01:16:46,460 --> 01:16:49,710
[Eddie, voice over] As a person
who was at VICE for many years,
1700
01:16:49,790 --> 01:16:51,710
seeing how disorganized it was
1701
01:16:51,790 --> 01:16:53,880
and how a lot of it was a house of cards,
1702
01:16:54,130 --> 01:16:56,670
I started to wonder how this would end
1703
01:16:56,750 --> 01:17:00,330
and that it was possible
that there was a very, very bad end
1704
01:17:00,420 --> 01:17:03,750
because gamblers go up
and gamblers go down.
1705
01:17:03,830 --> 01:17:05,130
But once they go down,
1706
01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:08,130
they start to do crazy shit
to try and come back up.
1707
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,710
When VICE started to experience
revenue shortfalls,
1708
01:17:11,790 --> 01:17:14,880
they began working in the shadows
with people like Philip Morris
1709
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,210
to create lifestyle campaigns
promoting vaping
1710
01:17:17,290 --> 01:17:20,040
as a healthier alternative to cigarettes
1711
01:17:20,130 --> 01:17:22,210
because their metrics said that vaping
1712
01:17:22,290 --> 01:17:24,710
was a more profitable business.
1713
01:17:25,290 --> 01:17:28,290
Miles Skinner worked on
the Philip Morris team.
1714
01:17:28,380 --> 01:17:30,290
[Miles] I know a lot of people who,
1715
01:17:30,380 --> 01:17:32,710
you know, have a bad taste
in their mouth about VICE.
1716
01:17:32,710 --> 01:17:34,290
I don't. I had a great time.
1717
01:17:34,380 --> 01:17:35,630
I had a great job.
1718
01:17:35,670 --> 01:17:37,130
{\an8}I got to travel the world.
1719
01:17:37,210 --> 01:17:41,130
{\an8}I got to be in really weird rooms
with interesting people.
1720
01:17:41,210 --> 01:17:42,500
You know, they had Virtue.
1721
01:17:42,540 --> 01:17:47,130
The version of Virtue
that was existing to that point
1722
01:17:47,210 --> 01:17:50,580
was more like, you know, VICE content
1723
01:17:50,670 --> 01:17:53,080
that looked like VICE content
that was really ads.
1724
01:17:53,170 --> 01:17:55,670
[Pensive music]
1725
01:17:55,710 --> 01:17:58,380
This was creating white label ad services.
1726
01:17:58,460 --> 01:18:00,000
In this episode of Rise As One,
1727
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,630
our friends at Budweiser
sent us to Beijing
1728
01:18:02,670 --> 01:18:04,920
to see how a group
of local football lovers
1729
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,630
are rallying their countrymen
to get out on the pitch.
1730
01:18:07,670 --> 01:18:09,130
[Rock music]
1731
01:18:09,210 --> 01:18:14,830
[Eddie] Do you feel like VICE pioneered
a lot of that, like, branded content?
1732
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,750
It's funny
because the VICE I knew and loved
1733
01:18:18,830 --> 01:18:21,670
was a bankrupt magazine
that threw great parties.
1734
01:18:21,710 --> 01:18:23,670
- Yeah, yeah.
- You know? And it was like...
1735
01:18:23,670 --> 01:18:25,540
hot girls, like good music.
1736
01:18:25,630 --> 01:18:27,880
Like, you know they had taste,
good photography,
1737
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:28,920
all of that stuff.
1738
01:18:30,290 --> 01:18:34,210
I think they stumbled into something
that became their future.
1739
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,420
You know, we booked
nine figures in business,
1740
01:18:37,540 --> 01:18:39,130
and some of that was for Virtue.
1741
01:18:39,170 --> 01:18:42,960
And then some was
when I moved on to a different team
1742
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:48,170
that was a... little bit more clandestine.
1743
01:18:48,250 --> 01:18:49,290
- Yeah.
- You know?
1744
01:18:49,380 --> 01:18:53,750
And that was based around
one client, which was Philip Morris.
1745
01:18:54,420 --> 01:18:55,540
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
1746
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:01,130
You know how do we get people
to quit smoking combustible cigarettes?
1747
01:19:01,210 --> 01:19:02,880
So, massive thought problem.
1748
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:04,920
You know when they explained
their rationale,
1749
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:05,960
it was of course,
1750
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:08,380
get people to quit smoking
combustible cigarettes,
1751
01:19:08,380 --> 01:19:12,000
we create a market to sell them
non-combustible solutions.
1752
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:15,540
And you know harm reduction,
you can spin it all ways.
1753
01:19:15,630 --> 01:19:17,540
You know Philip Morris has blood
on their hands.
1754
01:19:17,580 --> 01:19:20,000
Is the vape business
better for Philip Morris
1755
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:21,710
than the
combustible cigarette--?
1756
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:24,080
- [Miles] Their metrics said yes.
- Ew.
1757
01:19:24,170 --> 01:19:26,170
We put together a strategy
1758
01:19:26,250 --> 01:19:30,210
that was around most
of these anti-smoking campaigns,
1759
01:19:30,290 --> 01:19:32,130
cessation campaigns.
1760
01:19:32,210 --> 01:19:33,920
It's telling people to do something.
1761
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,080
And that's what Shane
was always selling companies,
1762
01:19:37,170 --> 01:19:39,460
was that,
"I know how to speak to that kid."
1763
01:19:39,580 --> 01:19:42,330
What do you think is at the core
of that perspective?
1764
01:19:42,420 --> 01:19:44,210
To that kid you're talking to,
1765
01:19:44,290 --> 01:19:47,040
what do you think it is
that we were all selling?
1766
01:19:47,130 --> 01:19:50,080
Make the cool guy feel rich
and the rich guy feel cool.
1767
01:19:50,170 --> 01:19:52,460
- Yeah.
- And, you know, it's yours.
1768
01:19:52,580 --> 01:19:53,710
Yeah.
1769
01:19:53,790 --> 01:19:55,420
And you can rule, you know?
1770
01:19:55,540 --> 01:19:57,710
It's like, it works.
1771
01:19:59,130 --> 01:20:02,170
People were coming to VICE,
I felt, for two reasons.
1772
01:20:02,250 --> 01:20:05,580
One, 'cause it was cool and it was like,
"Tell us what's cool."
1773
01:20:05,670 --> 01:20:07,580
Two is, you figured out the Internet.
1774
01:20:07,670 --> 01:20:10,750
And figured out you know,
how to get over on it.
1775
01:20:10,830 --> 01:20:14,210
You know? I mean,
it was, like, a lot of it was scam.
1776
01:20:19,290 --> 01:20:21,290
[Eddie, voice over] VICE
made a lot of money by
1777
01:20:21,330 --> 01:20:23,830
basically playing three-card
monte with Internet traffic.
1778
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,670
And Taylor Lorenz,
who wrote Extremely Online,
1779
01:20:26,710 --> 01:20:28,960
is an expert on this matter.
1780
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,750
{\an8}They did a lot of growth hacks
because they needed to,
1781
01:20:31,790 --> 01:20:33,960
{\an8}because they had to deliver
those audiences.
1782
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,670
So the metrics were always bullshit.
1783
01:20:36,710 --> 01:20:38,960
Throughout like the early,
mid-2010s you know,
1784
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,170
Facebook is just juicing traffic
to media companies.
1785
01:20:42,250 --> 01:20:44,830
They weren't able to drive enough traffic
from their own pages.
1786
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:46,420
So they would, like,
do these swaps,
1787
01:20:46,420 --> 01:20:47,880
where they would buy traffic.
1788
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,170
Basically they would like pay for traffic
1789
01:20:50,250 --> 01:20:53,080
that they could then claim as their own.
1790
01:20:53,170 --> 01:20:55,670
It was like, "Well, let's
fudge the numbers this quarter.
1791
01:20:55,670 --> 01:20:57,880
"Yeah, we're gonna get
some traffic from here and there
1792
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:59,130
"but like, it'll work out."
1793
01:20:59,130 --> 01:21:01,290
'Cause it was all like,
trickery and these like,
1794
01:21:01,290 --> 01:21:04,130
digital marketing,
kind of sleights of hand.
1795
01:21:04,210 --> 01:21:06,960
And it was about
sort of projecting success
1796
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,790
and coolness and culture,
which is--
1797
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,960
if you don't have the kind
of business to back it up
1798
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,330
or the community to back it up,
then you're screwed.
1799
01:21:15,330 --> 01:21:18,170
I got an e-mail from a VICE employee
1800
01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:21,670
that was very high up
in sales on an Apple campaign.
1801
01:21:21,710 --> 01:21:26,040
And Apple actually found out
that they were buying traffic
1802
01:21:26,130 --> 01:21:30,580
from Pornhub
and attributing it to their numbers.
1803
01:21:30,670 --> 01:21:33,460
Well, because they would do
VICE Media Network or something.
1804
01:21:33,460 --> 01:21:37,580
They had all these ways of,
like, obscuring that.
1805
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:39,920
{\an8}And then when you dug into it,
1806
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,460
{\an8}you're like, "Okay, but that's not VICE
dot-com that you're talking about here.
1807
01:21:43,460 --> 01:21:45,750
{\an8}"You're talking about all these
other weird websites."
1808
01:21:45,790 --> 01:21:47,290
{\an8}So that you can claim
their numbers.
1809
01:21:47,290 --> 01:21:49,040
{\an8}[Eddie] Yeah. It's insane
because the people at VICE
1810
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:51,920
didn't even tag it to the dates
of the campaign correctly.
1811
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,330
- Wow.
- Like, they were that negligent.
1812
01:21:54,420 --> 01:21:55,420
Yeah.
1813
01:21:55,540 --> 01:21:57,670
[Eddie, voice over] Not only
was VICE negligent
1814
01:21:57,670 --> 01:21:59,380
in reporting fake Internet traffic
1815
01:21:59,380 --> 01:22:01,920
on a million-dollar
ad campaign for Apple,
1816
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,670
but it was malicious
in its direction of employees,
1817
01:22:04,750 --> 01:22:08,250
like Mitchell Sunderland,
who VICE fucked so badly
1818
01:22:08,330 --> 01:22:10,790
that he ended up
having to change his name.
1819
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,380
[Sasha] Mitchell Sunderland
was a staff writer
1820
01:22:14,460 --> 01:22:15,880
and an editor at VICE,
1821
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:17,330
might have been 2018.
1822
01:22:17,420 --> 01:22:19,540
A mutual friend of ours walks
through the door,
1823
01:22:19,580 --> 01:22:22,290
{\an8}and she goes, "Oh, my God.
What's this shit going on with Mitchell?"
1824
01:22:22,290 --> 01:22:24,130
{\an8}And I was like,
"What are you talking about?"
1825
01:22:24,130 --> 01:22:25,330
{\an8}She's like, "Google it."
1826
01:22:25,630 --> 01:22:29,330
Every fucking news publication
has an article.
1827
01:22:29,670 --> 01:22:31,130
"VICE's Mitchell Sunderland.
1828
01:22:31,210 --> 01:22:33,790
"Email thread with neo-Nazis,"
blah, blah, blah.
1829
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:35,040
All this stuff.
1830
01:22:35,130 --> 01:22:37,250
So like it doesn't look good for Mitchell.
1831
01:22:38,670 --> 01:22:41,130
Mitchell was given a directive by VICE
1832
01:22:41,210 --> 01:22:43,790
to maintain relationships
1833
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,380
with Ann Coulter
and Milo Yiannopoulos,
1834
01:22:46,460 --> 01:22:49,210
who had actually written
for VICE in the past,
1835
01:22:49,380 --> 01:22:53,460
to cede VICE articles to Breitbart
1836
01:22:53,540 --> 01:22:55,170
and other right-wing publications
1837
01:22:55,250 --> 01:22:57,080
because allegedly,
1838
01:22:57,170 --> 01:22:59,880
- they had better traffic than VICE did.
- Yeah.
1839
01:22:59,960 --> 01:23:02,380
People who were studying traffic
at the time
1840
01:23:02,460 --> 01:23:04,750
were seeing that right-wing people
1841
01:23:04,830 --> 01:23:07,960
would be more likely
to click on a VICE link
1842
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,170
if they saw that the person posting it
1843
01:23:10,290 --> 01:23:13,000
was railing on VICE
rather than if they were saying,
1844
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,380
"Look at this great thing
that VICE is posting."
1845
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,250
Nobody bothered us, you know
as long as we were earning.
1846
01:23:19,330 --> 01:23:21,040
I mean, you've been to the London office.
1847
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:23,750
We were in a separate building
1848
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:27,250
like, down the block and
around some weird little Shoreditch alley.
1849
01:23:27,330 --> 01:23:30,750
And, you know, our seats
in London were...
1850
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:34,330
We were sitting with
or right above the guys
1851
01:23:34,420 --> 01:23:39,330
that were starting the work with Saudis.
1852
01:23:39,540 --> 01:23:42,210
[Reporter] It was at the Saudi consulate
in Istanbul
1853
01:23:42,290 --> 01:23:45,460
that Jamal Khashoggi met his brutal end.
1854
01:23:45,580 --> 01:23:47,580
He'd been lured there to discuss paperwork
1855
01:23:47,630 --> 01:23:48,830
for his upcoming wedding.
1856
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,630
But he was strangled as soon
as he entered the building
1857
01:23:51,670 --> 01:23:53,830
by a team of Saudi assassins.
1858
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,420
- I was privy to a little bit of it.
- Yeah.
1859
01:23:56,540 --> 01:24:00,330
You know. I saw maybe one of those briefs,
and it was very, very early,
1860
01:24:00,420 --> 01:24:02,210
and it had to do with tourism
1861
01:24:02,290 --> 01:24:08,080
and their ultimate goals of making it
an inbound tourist destination
1862
01:24:08,170 --> 01:24:09,880
for people under 35.
1863
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:11,170
[Rhythmic music]
1864
01:24:11,250 --> 01:24:13,790
[Narrator, female voice]
Camels hold a very special place
1865
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:15,540
in Saudi Arabia's heart.
1866
01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:22,420
They've been used for centuries
as transportation, food, even as currency.
1867
01:24:22,540 --> 01:24:25,920
This annual month-long
celebration of everything camel
1868
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,790
is a chance to see and be seen
for the country's elite.
1869
01:24:32,670 --> 01:24:36,960
{\an8}[Eddie, voice over] Saudi Arabia's tourism
board paid VICE millions of dollars
1870
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,080
{\an8}to make a video covering camel races.
1871
01:24:40,420 --> 01:24:44,000
[Narrator] Arabian camel racing
has been around since the 7th century,
1872
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:46,420
but has grown in popularity
in recent years
1873
01:24:46,540 --> 01:24:48,250
due to the huge prizes on offer.
1874
01:24:48,330 --> 01:24:52,040
World leaders and dignitaries
enter their prized beasts.
1875
01:24:52,710 --> 01:24:56,750
[Eddie] They actually trick a VICE
journalist to go post this episode.
1876
01:24:57,670 --> 01:25:01,040
{\an8}[Charlet] I've learned, I mean,
they call us producers, right?
1877
01:25:01,130 --> 01:25:03,040
{\an8}- I mean, I was a host.
- [Interviewer] Mm-hmm.
1878
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:04,670
{\an8}I guess I was a content creator.
1879
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:06,210
[Camel growling]
1880
01:25:06,290 --> 01:25:08,380
They've just decided that I should ride.
1881
01:25:08,460 --> 01:25:10,830
[Camel growling]
1882
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:14,960
[Eddie] The person had no idea
that it was a fluff piece
1883
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,130
for Saudi Arabia's tourism board.
1884
01:25:17,210 --> 01:25:19,460
[Charlet] This is a time of massive flux,
1885
01:25:19,580 --> 01:25:22,040
so how better to deal with that
than to remind yourself
1886
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:24,380
of your roots,
your regional identity,
1887
01:25:24,460 --> 01:25:26,880
and celebrate the camel.
1888
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,750
[Eddie, voice over] They
would just film the person's VO
1889
01:25:29,830 --> 01:25:31,330
and have the person say things
1890
01:25:31,420 --> 01:25:33,420
that they needed for this tourism video.
1891
01:25:33,630 --> 01:25:37,040
[Charlet narrates] As I watched the highly
choreographed closing ceremony,
1892
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,710
it was clear that in modern Saudi Arabia,
1893
01:25:39,790 --> 01:25:41,290
camels remain important.
1894
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:45,130
They may not be a main source
of transport or food,
1895
01:25:45,210 --> 01:25:46,750
but to Saudi's elite,
1896
01:25:46,830 --> 01:25:49,170
like Naif and the country's leadership,
1897
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:54,250
they're a source of national pride
and even regional solidarity.
1898
01:25:55,830 --> 01:26:00,460
You know, that's another
three card monte, VICE, kind of...
1899
01:26:01,210 --> 01:26:03,330
you know, that's an old standard trick.
1900
01:26:04,130 --> 01:26:06,960
I haven't talked publicly
about VICE hardly at all
1901
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:08,420
for, like, various reasons.
1902
01:26:08,540 --> 01:26:09,630
[Interviewer] Oh.
1903
01:26:09,670 --> 01:26:11,420
But also because I'm worried that if I do,
1904
01:26:11,420 --> 01:26:13,130
I'm just going to talk so much shit
1905
01:26:13,130 --> 01:26:14,710
and I'm never going to be able to stop.
1906
01:26:14,750 --> 01:26:17,960
Are you excited
of the idea of meeting MBS?
1907
01:26:18,580 --> 01:26:21,170
Of course.
He's our new king.
1908
01:26:21,250 --> 01:26:23,080
We are moving with him.
1909
01:26:23,170 --> 01:26:24,630
We are changing with him.
1910
01:26:24,670 --> 01:26:25,750
For the better.
1911
01:26:26,630 --> 01:26:30,080
[Shane] What we look at is saying, okay,
when I say partner with brands,
1912
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:31,960
I mean partner,
like production partner.
1913
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:33,170
So we make it together.
1914
01:26:33,250 --> 01:26:34,880
We exploit it together.
1915
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:36,540
And that could be a TV show.
1916
01:26:36,630 --> 01:26:38,920
It could be a short form.
It could be long form.
1917
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:40,000
It could be a film.
1918
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:41,920
[Eddie, voice over] As revenue was falling,
1919
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,960
Shane doubled down on the
further narrowing of the brand.
1920
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:49,080
Everything needed to feel
like a sibling of the VICE on HBO show
1921
01:26:49,170 --> 01:26:51,250
because urgent, salacious journalism
1922
01:26:51,330 --> 01:26:54,710
was the one thing investors
and legacy media understood.
1923
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:56,130
[Fire blazing]
1924
01:26:56,210 --> 01:26:57,880
[Kara] Let's talk about what you're doing.
1925
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,670
Now, there's been, like,
90 articles about your efforts.
1926
01:27:00,670 --> 01:27:02,380
Mostly, "We're going to fuck shit up.
1927
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:04,170
"We're going to fuck the shit
out of things.
1928
01:27:04,170 --> 01:27:06,210
"Fucking shit, shit, fuck,"
stuff like that.
1929
01:27:06,210 --> 01:27:08,040
So what are you doing?
1930
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:09,290
[Audience laughs]
1931
01:27:09,670 --> 01:27:12,130
- Fucking shit up.
- [Kara] Okay. Alright.
1932
01:27:13,130 --> 01:27:17,040
What we're famous for is giving over,
Dylan going electric,
1933
01:27:17,170 --> 01:27:21,210
giving over the company to people...
1934
01:27:21,290 --> 01:27:23,540
Like, for example,
a lot of people who are doing TV,
1935
01:27:23,580 --> 01:27:25,460
all the people
who are doing our monetization
1936
01:27:25,460 --> 01:27:29,000
have never done anything in TV
and, or TV monetization before,
1937
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:30,540
and that's our strength.
1938
01:27:30,630 --> 01:27:32,670
- That you don't know anything?
- Exactly.
1939
01:27:32,710 --> 01:27:34,080
- Okay.
- Ignorance is--
1940
01:27:34,170 --> 01:27:36,460
Now, you do have some executives
they've brought in th--
1941
01:27:36,460 --> 01:27:39,330
Yeah, on the business side, for sure,
because as we grow,
1942
01:27:39,460 --> 01:27:41,790
we're doing a lot
of international TV deals,
1943
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:42,960
a lot of mobile deals.
1944
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:44,380
We don't want to get hoodwinked,
1945
01:27:44,380 --> 01:27:47,210
so we have people coming over
from Discovery and other companies,
1946
01:27:47,210 --> 01:27:48,920
but I'm talking about
on the creation side.
1947
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:50,830
So you have people
that don't know anything--
1948
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,080
- Correct.
- [Kara] And the point being,
1949
01:27:53,170 --> 01:27:54,790
we're so stupid,
we can't fuck up?
1950
01:27:54,830 --> 01:27:55,830
- Correct.
- Okay.
1951
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,170
[Eddie, voice over] It seems
strange watching Shane talk
1952
01:27:59,170 --> 01:28:02,040
about how he installs creatives
who don't know what they're doing,
1953
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,790
but it was code
for the existing VICE creatives
1954
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,580
like myself and the people
who worked on our show.
1955
01:28:07,670 --> 01:28:08,670
It was all posturing
1956
01:28:08,710 --> 01:28:12,880
to make it seem like he was going
to retain the punk rock essence of VICE,
1957
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:13,960
but in fact,
1958
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:16,420
he was installing parrots on every show.
1959
01:28:16,540 --> 01:28:18,750
We ended up having to answer
to a show runner
1960
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:21,540
that came from
Cesar Millan the Dog Whisperer.
1961
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,380
[Uplifting music]
1962
01:28:26,210 --> 01:28:29,250
This guy was on this episode
encouraging my brother and I
1963
01:28:29,330 --> 01:28:30,960
to stay at the Sausage Castle,
1964
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:34,710
despite our protests about what
Mike Busey was doing to people.
1965
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:37,170
[Song ends]
1966
01:28:37,250 --> 01:28:39,670
{\an8}Now, that's what I call
"fresh off the boat", brother.
1967
01:28:39,670 --> 01:28:40,830
{\an8}What's up, man?
1968
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:42,460
{\an8}[Eddie] And for some reason,
1969
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:45,540
{\an8}these white dudes always want
to remind me that I'm Chinese.
1970
01:28:47,330 --> 01:28:49,960
[Upbeat music]
1971
01:28:54,580 --> 01:28:57,460
You gotta get control of this shoot,
there's guns going off everywhere,
1972
01:28:57,460 --> 01:28:59,040
and son's throwing grenades.
1973
01:28:59,130 --> 01:29:00,170
Someone's throwing grenades.
1974
01:29:00,170 --> 01:29:01,750
I mean, son was throwing grenades,
1975
01:29:01,790 --> 01:29:03,460
and I was really like, man,
1976
01:29:03,580 --> 01:29:06,330
we really need better
gun control laws in this country.
1977
01:29:06,460 --> 01:29:10,080
You're going to take your finger, and...
1978
01:29:10,170 --> 01:29:12,960
- Wait, wait, wait. Please don't shoot.
- Oh, damn!
1979
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:15,290
[Eddie] At one point,
they almost shot our DP,
1980
01:29:15,290 --> 01:29:17,380
- Christopher Valona.
- You okay, CV?
1981
01:29:17,460 --> 01:29:20,790
[Christopher] Yeah, I'm okay.
I heard, like, it's like the war.
1982
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:22,880
- [Mike] Welcome to my house.
- [Laughing]
1983
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,130
[Eddie, voice over] And we were
still asked to finish the scene.
1984
01:29:25,130 --> 01:29:27,250
I didn't know
that you were gonna shoot.
1985
01:29:27,330 --> 01:29:30,080
I was going to come in
with a countdown, LA.
1986
01:29:30,170 --> 01:29:31,790
Okay. Like,
I'm getting ready to shoot.
1987
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:34,330
Everyone stand by,
so you don't shit yourselves.
1988
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:37,540
[Eddie, voice over] This is
what Jesse was talking about
1989
01:29:37,630 --> 01:29:39,920
when he said Shane became P.T. Barnum
1990
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,130
selling the freaks.
1991
01:29:41,210 --> 01:29:45,040
It wasn't the same voice
that Gavin, Jesse, and Amy
1992
01:29:45,130 --> 01:29:48,000
had crafted with satire
and a subversive purpose.
1993
01:29:48,290 --> 01:29:50,040
It wasn't even weird for weird.
1994
01:29:50,130 --> 01:29:53,670
It was weird for money,
and I wanted out.
1995
01:29:53,750 --> 01:29:56,000
Go over to the camera
and say that in Chinese.
1996
01:29:56,250 --> 01:29:57,750
- Into the cameras.
- I don't--
1997
01:29:57,830 --> 01:30:00,460
Just make some shit up and say--
make it sound Asian.
1998
01:30:08,250 --> 01:30:12,880
[Mike] Allow the sake
to flow down her juicy pooper.
1999
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,420
Into LA's mouth.
Open up wide, LA.
2000
01:30:16,540 --> 01:30:18,130
[Crowd cheering]
2001
01:30:20,460 --> 01:30:22,670
- Sake fruit salad.
- This fucking sucks.
2002
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,750
[Mike] This is the sake fruit salad here.
2003
01:30:26,830 --> 01:30:28,540
[Giggling]
2004
01:30:28,630 --> 01:30:30,210
I'm sorry. This sucks.
2005
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:34,630
What's up, dude?
2006
01:30:34,670 --> 01:30:36,670
[Mike] Hey, mind if I
talk to you for a second?
2007
01:30:36,670 --> 01:30:39,920
No, it's fine, man. I mean,
my thing is really, I just like...
2008
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:41,710
You know, man,
this isn't my thing.
2009
01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:45,710
It's just like, I feel like
that you're a [bleep] hilarious dude,
2010
01:30:45,790 --> 01:30:47,750
and all this shit is hilarious,
and it's fun to be here.
2011
01:30:47,790 --> 01:30:50,210
But you just got to be careful
not to use people.
2012
01:30:50,290 --> 01:30:52,460
Do you know what I mean?
Like, you're using LA.,
2013
01:30:52,460 --> 01:30:55,000
and he's kind of this, like,
funny Black guy with a big stomach.
2014
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:58,290
You're using the Asian girl to come,
like, speak Chinese on camera.
2015
01:30:58,290 --> 01:31:00,580
You just got to be careful
about the way you use people.
2016
01:31:00,630 --> 01:31:02,710
And the women like--
you know what I'm saying?
2017
01:31:02,750 --> 01:31:05,040
Well, behind all this shit, man, honestly,
2018
01:31:05,130 --> 01:31:07,040
- we're all from different walks.
- Yeah.
2019
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:09,130
Black, white, Christian, atheist.
2020
01:31:09,210 --> 01:31:10,670
You hung out with Jews today,
2021
01:31:10,750 --> 01:31:12,750
Asians, dumb [bleep] like me.
2022
01:31:12,830 --> 01:31:14,670
- Yeah.
- And the whole thing is,
2023
01:31:14,710 --> 01:31:20,330
we all find a common ground
in our just being that outsider.
2024
01:31:20,420 --> 01:31:23,830
For me, watching and being a part of it,
I'm uncomfortable.
2025
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:27,330
And I feel like people who watch this
are gonna laugh at you.
2026
01:31:27,460 --> 01:31:28,750
They're gonna laugh at LA.
2027
01:31:28,830 --> 01:31:31,210
They're gonna laugh
at the girl with the melons.
2028
01:31:31,250 --> 01:31:34,130
But I think you should just think about,
what is it you're trying to say?
2029
01:31:34,130 --> 01:31:36,460
- I apologize for any [bleep]
- Don't--
2030
01:31:36,580 --> 01:31:38,630
- [Mike] But I do, man.
- Thank you. We're good.
2031
01:31:38,670 --> 01:31:39,830
Thanks for coming.
2032
01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:42,130
[Bell dings]
2033
01:31:42,210 --> 01:31:44,710
[Background chatter]
2034
01:31:44,790 --> 01:31:48,790
{\an8}[Eddie, voice over] While VICE had
me boxing to sell ads at their upfront,
2035
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,290
I was fighting their lawyers
behind the scenes for my residuals.
2036
01:31:52,380 --> 01:31:54,080
We chased it for years.
2037
01:31:54,170 --> 01:31:57,080
But by the time VICE
finally acknowledged the debt,
2038
01:31:57,170 --> 01:31:58,330
they were bankrupt.
2039
01:31:59,960 --> 01:32:01,830
I challenged the bankruptcy,
2040
01:32:03,130 --> 01:32:05,040
made my claim,
2041
01:32:05,130 --> 01:32:07,460
and although
they never paid me my money...
2042
01:32:07,580 --> 01:32:09,960
[Crowd exclaiming]
2043
01:32:10,670 --> 01:32:13,580
I traded that debt
for the rights to my show
2044
01:32:13,670 --> 01:32:15,750
and cancelled out my NDA with VICE.
2045
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:18,790
By having that footage and freedom,
2046
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:20,920
I was able to make this documentary.
2047
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:27,290
I traded hundreds of thousands of dollars
for the right to tell this story.
2048
01:32:29,460 --> 01:32:31,670
People ask me all the time
why I went to VICE
2049
01:32:31,750 --> 01:32:34,420
despite people
like Choe telling me not to.
2050
01:32:34,670 --> 01:32:36,460
I went to VICE because at one point,
2051
01:32:36,460 --> 01:32:38,250
it was fucking amazing.
2052
01:32:38,330 --> 01:32:40,420
It was a place you could be weird
and have a voice
2053
01:32:40,420 --> 01:32:44,080
and for lack of a better term,
be your goddamn self.
2054
01:32:44,170 --> 01:32:46,630
It was like
Professor X's School for Mutants
2055
01:32:46,670 --> 01:32:48,580
or Bruce Wayne's Gotham orphanage
2056
01:32:48,670 --> 01:32:51,460
or Derek Zoolander's
School for Kids Who Don't Read Good.
2057
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:53,460
That's why we all went,
2058
01:32:53,580 --> 01:32:55,670
because we didn't fit in anywhere else.
2059
01:32:55,750 --> 01:32:58,040
And despite this insanely negligent,
2060
01:32:58,130 --> 01:33:00,380
borderline malicious environment,
2061
01:33:00,460 --> 01:33:02,960
a lot of good people
did a lot of good work.
2062
01:33:03,500 --> 01:33:06,000
VICE gave us a home
to tell stories from the gutter,
2063
01:33:06,460 --> 01:33:08,920
and the hope was that
by telling these stories,
2064
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:10,580
you could change shit.
2065
01:33:22,250 --> 01:33:25,670
[Eddie, voice over] We had a purpose,
and VICE made a brand out of it.
2066
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:28,710
But once that brand
became bigger than the people
2067
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:32,330
and the stories and the multitudes
it hoped to contain...
2068
01:33:32,420 --> 01:33:33,920
It's not this, like, precious thing,
2069
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:36,790
but it's this thing that's like--
it's a, it's a...
2070
01:33:38,250 --> 01:33:40,040
[Eddie, voice over] It was worthless.
2071
01:33:41,170 --> 01:33:42,540
[Up-tempo pop music]
2072
01:33:42,630 --> 01:33:44,790
The world is full of stories like this.
2073
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,670
I saw a lot of them on Huang's World,
2074
01:33:46,710 --> 01:33:49,920
and in the end,
there was one salt miner in Peru
2075
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:52,210
that reminds me of my time at VICE.
2076
01:33:54,420 --> 01:33:59,460
In America, if you sell
one bottle of this pink salt,
2077
01:33:59,580 --> 01:34:00,880
like, six to eight ounces,
2078
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,670
people are paying
upwards of $10 or $12 for it.
2079
01:34:04,710 --> 01:34:05,750
Did you know that?
2080
01:34:07,540 --> 01:34:09,130
{\an8}[In Spanish]
2081
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:14,170
So you guys are not aware of the amount
of money they sell your salt for?
2082
01:34:38,540 --> 01:34:42,000
[Rock music]
2083
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,750
[Eddie, voice over] The desire
to scale Peruvian pink salt
2084
01:34:44,790 --> 01:34:47,670
or VICE magazine so
everyone can experience it
2085
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:52,000
instantly kills that thing
you loved about it in the first place.
2086
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:54,250
There's a magical number of people
2087
01:34:54,330 --> 01:34:56,790
who are meant to enjoy
or experience something,
2088
01:34:57,380 --> 01:34:59,670
and the second
you cross that threshold,
2089
01:34:59,710 --> 01:35:01,630
it becomes a pumpkin.
2090
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,750
VICE is broke
2091
01:35:05,790 --> 01:35:09,420
because greed scaled it
to a point where it mutated
2092
01:35:09,540 --> 01:35:12,880
and no longer resembled
what made it special in the first place.
2093
01:35:14,290 --> 01:35:17,040
Not everyone is gonna
get to smoke formaldehyde
2094
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:19,330
next to Rupert Murdoch at the VICE office.
2095
01:35:20,130 --> 01:35:22,250
You kind of just had to be there.
2096
01:35:22,330 --> 01:35:25,080
[Upbeat theme music]
2097
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:40,670
Oh, I mean,
but these pants are weird.
2098
01:35:41,130 --> 01:35:43,330
Alright, you pick where it goes.
2099
01:35:43,420 --> 01:35:45,670
- Okay, right side for sure.
- That's pretty big.
2100
01:35:45,710 --> 01:35:46,790
Is this the biggest one?
2101
01:35:46,830 --> 01:35:48,290
- [Man] That's the biggest.
- Okay.
2102
01:35:48,290 --> 01:35:49,790
[Eddie] Here, I'm gonna keep it there.
2103
01:35:49,830 --> 01:35:52,000
I'm just gonna line it up
just a little bit.
2104
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:54,580
Yeah, yeah,
'cause it's a little slanted.
2105
01:35:54,670 --> 01:35:57,830
But isn't it going to,
like, isn't your body just...
2106
01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:01,540
I still want someone to claim the panties.
2107
01:36:01,630 --> 01:36:04,540
- [Artist] Oh, you feel it, huh?
- [Groans] No, that's good.
2108
01:36:04,630 --> 01:36:06,420
Alright, try not--
try to hold still.
2109
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,960
[Eddie] I'll chill out
if you put a couple fingers in there.
2110
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:12,880
I might have to do it
to hold you in place.
2111
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,290
Was that Amber Rose
that was telling everybody
2112
01:36:15,380 --> 01:36:17,500
that Kanye liked fingers
in his ass?
2113
01:36:17,670 --> 01:36:21,130
Yeah, yeah, she was like,
Mr. Finger in the Booty Boy or something.
2114
01:36:21,210 --> 01:36:24,460
Most geniuses are left-handed
and like fingers in their ass.
2115
01:36:24,580 --> 01:36:26,920
- I know a lot of geniuses.
- [Laughter]
2116
01:36:28,580 --> 01:36:30,880
Woo was on an episode
with us too, right, Nick?
2117
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:32,670
- Yeah.
- Before we went to Taiwan as a pickup.
2118
01:36:32,710 --> 01:36:33,580
Yeah.
2119
01:36:33,670 --> 01:36:37,130
[Nick] Remember the guy
in China did some shit like,
2120
01:36:37,210 --> 01:36:38,210
"You a party boy?
2121
01:36:38,290 --> 01:36:39,920
"Yo, you're a fun guy, right?"
2122
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,080
[Laughing]
2123
01:36:41,170 --> 01:36:42,540
Then you were like, "What?"
2124
01:36:42,630 --> 01:36:44,920
He's like,
"Yeah, you're like a fun guy, right?"
2125
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,580
We were in that bar
that gave us fucking... the balloons.
2126
01:36:48,670 --> 01:36:50,500
That was one of the guys.
2127
01:36:50,750 --> 01:36:52,170
- [Eddie] Oh.
- [Nick] Yeah.
2128
01:36:52,250 --> 01:36:55,250
[Hip-hop music]
2129
01:36:56,330 --> 01:36:59,460
I remember, we go
to this underground fucking bar,
2130
01:36:59,580 --> 01:37:02,960
and I think we're just gonna drink
and stuff and I look at the tab,
2131
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,000
but they started putting
balloons on it,
2132
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:08,500
and everyone was doing balloons,
and I was like, "Oh, this is so sick."
2133
01:37:08,540 --> 01:37:10,210
Nitrous you were doing?
2134
01:37:10,290 --> 01:37:12,250
[Nick] It wasn't like any nitrous
I'd ever done before.
2135
01:37:12,250 --> 01:37:13,460
It was like Chinese grade.
2136
01:37:13,460 --> 01:37:14,960
[Eddie] That shit was not nitrous.
2137
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,920
[Nick] Yeah, I don't know what it was.
2138
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,000
[Laughter]
2139
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:21,170
- [Eddie] Is the tattoo done?
- [Artist] Yeah.
2140
01:37:21,170 --> 01:37:22,250
- [Eddie] Oh.
- [Woman] How's it feel?
2141
01:37:22,250 --> 01:37:23,880
You know, the very end of it,
2142
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:25,880
- I felt a little sting.
- [Woman] Yeah?
2143
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:27,920
- But like, it feels--
- [Artist] That was the finger.
2144
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:30,080
[Laughs]
2145
01:37:30,170 --> 01:37:31,920
It looks really good, though.
2146
01:37:32,540 --> 01:37:34,330
Go look at it.
Go look in the mirror.
2147
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:39,790
[Theme music ends]
2148
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:41,290
[Woman] Stunning.
2149
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:45,460
[Soft music]