1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:14,723 --> 00:00:16,265 CREW MEMBER: Take 5. We're recording. 4 00:00:16,266 --> 00:00:17,892 - [clears throat] I'm not ready. 5 00:00:17,893 --> 00:00:20,896 [laughter] 6 00:00:22,105 --> 00:00:23,314 CREW MEMBER: Wait a minute. 7 00:00:23,315 --> 00:00:25,566 Stand by, please. Shh. Quiet. 8 00:00:25,567 --> 00:00:27,401 BARBARA: When I'm on camera... 9 00:00:27,402 --> 00:00:29,111 Okay? PERSON: Everybody got roll? 10 00:00:29,112 --> 00:00:31,113 - Which way do you want me to look--in you or in you? 11 00:00:31,114 --> 00:00:32,823 I am fully confident. 12 00:00:32,824 --> 00:00:35,243 I don't want to have to stop in the middle of a sentence. 13 00:00:35,244 --> 00:00:39,121 And I have a kind of courage... 14 00:00:39,122 --> 00:00:41,290 that I may not have in real life. 15 00:00:41,291 --> 00:00:43,417 - What do I call you during this interview? 16 00:00:43,418 --> 00:00:45,002 - Barbara. - Barbara? Is that all right? 17 00:00:45,003 --> 00:00:46,045 - I hope so. 18 00:00:46,046 --> 00:00:48,547 [dramatic music] 19 00:00:48,548 --> 00:00:50,299 PERSON 1: Both sets, be quiet, please. 20 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,509 PERSON 2: Barbara, we are rolling. 21 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:52,635 BARBARA: Have speed? 22 00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:54,095 Is everybody in position? 23 00:00:54,096 --> 00:00:55,846 We all ready? 24 00:00:55,847 --> 00:00:58,182 Are you ready to be interrogated? 25 00:00:58,183 --> 00:01:01,477 - She asked the question that nobody else had asked. 26 00:01:01,478 --> 00:01:03,813 - Are you sorry you didn't burn the tapes? 27 00:01:03,814 --> 00:01:05,648 Why didn't you have your nose fixed? 28 00:01:05,649 --> 00:01:07,108 Are you bisexual? 29 00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:09,402 Did you ever order anyone killed? 30 00:01:09,403 --> 00:01:13,948 - And asked it in a way that always hit a nerve. 31 00:01:13,949 --> 00:01:15,449 - Why the tears now, Oprah? 32 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:17,785 CYNTHIA: Sitting down with Barbara Walters, 33 00:01:17,786 --> 00:01:21,789 no one ever got out totally unscathed. 34 00:01:21,790 --> 00:01:23,416 BARBARA: Okay. 35 00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:26,252 KATIE: She could talk to anyone... 36 00:01:26,253 --> 00:01:28,087 - Will you ever shave off that beard? 37 00:01:28,088 --> 00:01:29,839 - [chuckles] 38 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,299 - About anything. 39 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:32,758 - You don't really act. 40 00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:34,844 You don't sing. You don't dance. 41 00:01:34,845 --> 00:01:36,137 You don't have any... 42 00:01:36,138 --> 00:01:38,014 KIM: Talent. - Forgive me--any talent. 43 00:01:38,015 --> 00:01:40,516 - You know, you're surrounded by beautiful flowers. 44 00:01:40,517 --> 00:01:42,560 The lighting is perfect. 45 00:01:42,561 --> 00:01:45,896 There's maybe a gauze on the lens. 46 00:01:45,897 --> 00:01:48,190 And then suddenly she would just throw 47 00:01:48,191 --> 00:01:50,109 a hardball out of nowhere. 48 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:52,528 - Martha, why do so many people hate you? 49 00:01:52,529 --> 00:01:55,197 - Each and every one of us has people that love us 50 00:01:55,198 --> 00:01:56,824 and people that hate us. 51 00:01:56,825 --> 00:01:59,577 - No, not everybody has people who hate them. 52 00:01:59,578 --> 00:02:01,037 Anything you regret? 53 00:02:01,038 --> 00:02:03,164 Is it ego, or is it insecurity? 54 00:02:03,165 --> 00:02:05,499 KATIE: Barbara sometimes asked questions 55 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,377 that revealed a lot about herself. 56 00:02:08,378 --> 00:02:10,963 - Is there a conflict between the working women 57 00:02:10,964 --> 00:02:12,340 and the children? 58 00:02:12,341 --> 00:02:14,592 Do you feel like a flop? Do you feel like a failure? 59 00:02:14,593 --> 00:02:16,510 BETTE: She was fearless. 60 00:02:16,511 --> 00:02:18,512 And sometimes she got under people's skin. 61 00:02:18,513 --> 00:02:20,306 - Ever do drugs in front of your child? 62 00:02:20,307 --> 00:02:22,516 - My God. What a question. 63 00:02:22,517 --> 00:02:24,268 BARBARA: You never say, "I made mistakes." 64 00:02:24,269 --> 00:02:25,728 You haven't said it. - Barbara, I make mistakes. 65 00:02:25,729 --> 00:02:27,229 I make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. 66 00:02:27,230 --> 00:02:28,773 - I mean, people don't think you show any humility. 67 00:02:28,774 --> 00:02:30,107 I'm not always a pussycat. 68 00:02:30,108 --> 00:02:31,609 I'm sure there are times when I'm cold. 69 00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:33,402 I'm sure there are times when I'm hostile. 70 00:02:33,403 --> 00:02:34,612 No. 71 00:02:34,613 --> 00:02:35,821 Please, do not interrupt me. 72 00:02:35,822 --> 00:02:37,031 I don't care if I'm shiny. 73 00:02:37,032 --> 00:02:38,616 I care more about this interview. 74 00:02:38,617 --> 00:02:40,534 OPRAH: Barbara knew what she was up against. 75 00:02:40,535 --> 00:02:42,244 - This studio is full of delicacies this morning, 76 00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:43,412 and here's one of them. 77 00:02:43,413 --> 00:02:45,373 Her name is Barbara. - Aw, that's so nice. 78 00:02:45,374 --> 00:02:47,083 BOB: Whether it was her looks or her voice, 79 00:02:47,084 --> 00:02:48,376 just the fact that she was a woman, 80 00:02:48,377 --> 00:02:50,836 there were people who just didn't believe in her. 81 00:02:50,837 --> 00:02:53,089 And she loved proving them wrong. 82 00:02:53,090 --> 00:02:54,465 ♪ ♪ 83 00:02:54,466 --> 00:02:56,175 - Nothing would stand in her way. 84 00:02:56,176 --> 00:02:57,218 - Okay, let's go. 85 00:02:57,219 --> 00:02:58,594 Let me know when you're all ready. 86 00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:00,679 Don't cut again unless you must. 87 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:01,889 HOST: Right now, ladies and gentlemen, 88 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:03,307 let me introduce to you one of America's 89 00:03:03,308 --> 00:03:06,352 top news correspondents, whose provocative interviews 90 00:03:06,353 --> 00:03:09,730 have riveted television viewers. 91 00:03:09,731 --> 00:03:12,108 Would you welcome Barbara Walters. 92 00:03:12,109 --> 00:03:15,112 [applause] 93 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,284 [indistinct chatter] 94 00:03:22,285 --> 00:03:25,830 [steady music] 95 00:03:25,831 --> 00:03:32,421 ♪ ♪ 96 00:03:34,923 --> 00:03:36,507 - Ten seconds. 97 00:03:36,508 --> 00:03:37,801 - Stand by, videotape. 98 00:03:41,555 --> 00:03:44,765 - We forced our staff writer Barbara Walters to go to Paris 99 00:03:44,766 --> 00:03:46,475 to cover the fashion openings. 100 00:03:46,476 --> 00:03:48,894 BARBARA: When I first came to work in the Today show, 101 00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:51,897 I was hired to write the women's features. 102 00:03:51,898 --> 00:03:54,525 Every day I had to go and look at fashion shows. 103 00:03:54,526 --> 00:03:56,527 HOST: Mm. - And then I had to have lunch 104 00:03:56,528 --> 00:03:58,320 at Maxime's and drink champagne. 105 00:03:58,321 --> 00:03:59,947 HOST: Huh. - And then I had to smell 106 00:03:59,948 --> 00:04:01,323 all the perfume at Dior. 107 00:04:01,324 --> 00:04:02,741 I mean, it was so trying 108 00:04:02,742 --> 00:04:05,411 that I took absolutely the very last plane I could 109 00:04:05,412 --> 00:04:06,704 to get back here today. 110 00:04:06,705 --> 00:04:08,330 HOST: Well, we welcome you back. 111 00:04:08,331 --> 00:04:10,541 BARBARA: I was not what they were putting 112 00:04:10,542 --> 00:04:12,710 in front of the cameras. 113 00:04:12,711 --> 00:04:16,630 They were looking for models, actresses, 114 00:04:16,631 --> 00:04:19,133 and it was a male-dominated shop. 115 00:04:19,134 --> 00:04:21,051 - Hey! [laughter] 116 00:04:21,052 --> 00:04:22,511 - Barbara, are you set to go? 117 00:04:22,512 --> 00:04:24,513 BARBARA: It never occurred to me 118 00:04:24,514 --> 00:04:26,515 that I would be in front of the camera. 119 00:04:26,516 --> 00:04:28,517 I am certainly no baby. 120 00:04:28,518 --> 00:04:31,729 I wasn't beautiful, and I didn't pronounce my Rs. 121 00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:33,147 And raincoats. 122 00:04:33,148 --> 00:04:35,566 But they needed someone they could hire cheap. 123 00:04:35,567 --> 00:04:37,318 I worked cheap. 124 00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:38,569 This is my diploma. 125 00:04:38,570 --> 00:04:40,446 It proves that I did indeed go to bunny school. 126 00:04:40,447 --> 00:04:42,907 I became the Today reporter. 127 00:04:42,908 --> 00:04:44,366 I went off and did stories. 128 00:04:44,367 --> 00:04:46,785 Here they are--graduate bunnies at the Playboy Club 129 00:04:46,786 --> 00:04:48,412 at the end of a hard day's work. 130 00:04:48,413 --> 00:04:50,039 KATIE: Barbara did all the soft, 131 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,708 fluffy stories-- the women's stories. 132 00:04:52,709 --> 00:04:53,918 BARBARA: Standard equipment 133 00:04:53,919 --> 00:04:56,545 is the bunny cottontail. 134 00:04:56,546 --> 00:04:59,507 KATIE: But she wanted to be taken seriously. 135 00:04:59,508 --> 00:05:02,760 She wanted to be appreciated for her intelligence. 136 00:05:02,761 --> 00:05:04,970 And so she fought really hard 137 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,223 to do some of the more serious interviews. 138 00:05:07,224 --> 00:05:09,350 - Suppose that, for one reason or another, 139 00:05:09,351 --> 00:05:11,560 you could no longer take the pill 140 00:05:11,561 --> 00:05:14,063 and had to go back to another contraceptive device. 141 00:05:14,064 --> 00:05:18,108 And when I went on the air, the big thing for me was, 142 00:05:18,109 --> 00:05:20,612 I could write my own questions. 143 00:05:22,614 --> 00:05:27,409 And when we began to do film reports, I could edit. 144 00:05:27,410 --> 00:05:30,454 I'm a good editor. That's what I do best. 145 00:05:30,455 --> 00:05:33,749 Those were the qualities I had-- 146 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:37,920 not my looks or my great personality, I don't think. 147 00:05:37,921 --> 00:05:41,215 But I could do those things. No woman had done them. 148 00:05:41,216 --> 00:05:43,384 There is another side to the royal family, 149 00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:45,386 a side I saw firsthand-- 150 00:05:45,387 --> 00:05:48,847 the human, the vulnerable, the imperfect side. 151 00:05:48,848 --> 00:05:51,600 CYNTHIA: Barbara was a real fixture in our home. 152 00:05:51,601 --> 00:05:53,227 We watched the Today show. 153 00:05:53,228 --> 00:05:56,063 She entered the television-news business 154 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:57,314 at a time-- 155 00:05:57,315 --> 00:06:00,067 to say women didn't have a seat at the table-- 156 00:06:00,068 --> 00:06:02,820 women weren't even in the room where the table was. 157 00:06:02,821 --> 00:06:04,113 - I'm Frank McGee. 158 00:06:04,114 --> 00:06:05,739 Joe Garagiola has the day off. 159 00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:06,991 Barbara Walters is here. 160 00:06:06,992 --> 00:06:08,367 BARBARA: When Hugh Downs, the host 161 00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:11,161 of the Today show, left the program... 162 00:06:11,162 --> 00:06:12,538 - Welcome to the Today program. 163 00:06:12,539 --> 00:06:14,456 BARBARA: A newsman named Frank McGee came in. 164 00:06:14,457 --> 00:06:16,041 The hard news interviews, 165 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:18,460 he wanted to do them by himself. 166 00:06:18,461 --> 00:06:22,131 This girl sitting next to me shouldn't be able to do them. 167 00:06:22,132 --> 00:06:26,343 And he went to the president of the network and said, 168 00:06:26,344 --> 00:06:29,388 "Barbara should not be allowed to come in on this interview 169 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:33,267 until I have asked three questions." 170 00:06:33,268 --> 00:06:36,103 Well, today I would have quit. 171 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:38,314 I didn't say, "How dare you?" 172 00:06:38,315 --> 00:06:41,317 There was no place to go and complain. 173 00:06:41,318 --> 00:06:45,237 You swallowed, and you worked it out yourself. 174 00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:47,031 - So she figured out a way around that 175 00:06:47,032 --> 00:06:48,991 by doing interviews outside of the studio. 176 00:06:48,992 --> 00:06:50,492 I mean, really, the reason 177 00:06:50,493 --> 00:06:52,119 that she started doing interviews 178 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,122 and ultimately became famous for them, 179 00:06:55,123 --> 00:06:57,916 it was a workaround. 180 00:06:57,917 --> 00:07:00,753 BARBARA: So pushy cookie did all of those interviews 181 00:07:00,754 --> 00:07:03,005 outside of the studio. 182 00:07:03,006 --> 00:07:04,882 Your Highness, I must ask you the question 183 00:07:04,883 --> 00:07:07,134 that most Americans want to know about you. 184 00:07:07,135 --> 00:07:08,677 Are you happy? 185 00:07:08,678 --> 00:07:13,307 - I've had many happy moments in my life, yes. 186 00:07:13,308 --> 00:07:17,269 I don't think happiness--being happy is a perpetual state. 187 00:07:17,270 --> 00:07:20,522 - Are you ever bored? And if so, what bores you? 188 00:07:20,523 --> 00:07:22,608 Or do you always have this nourishing curiosity? 189 00:07:22,609 --> 00:07:24,735 - No. I'm terribly curious. 190 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:27,529 I mean, it's very hard for me to get bored, 191 00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:31,158 because, mm... 192 00:07:31,159 --> 00:07:34,536 because even when somebody is being actively boring, 193 00:07:34,537 --> 00:07:36,914 I'm interested in how they are boring me. 194 00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:38,749 BARBARA: Do you think it's possible to be an actress 195 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:40,626 and be happily married? 196 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:44,171 - Well, I don't think anybody who married me thought so. 197 00:07:44,172 --> 00:07:45,339 [chuckles] 198 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:47,132 KATIE: Barbara was proving to be 199 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:49,968 a very integral part of the Today show. 200 00:07:49,969 --> 00:07:51,887 HOST: You say you brought the ratings up. 201 00:07:51,888 --> 00:07:53,597 Do you have any idea why? 202 00:07:53,598 --> 00:07:55,224 BARBARA: I think I was myself. 203 00:07:55,225 --> 00:07:59,520 People felt that they knew me. I was very accessible. 204 00:07:59,521 --> 00:08:01,397 And I guess... 205 00:08:01,398 --> 00:08:03,775 in television terms, I was smart. 206 00:08:06,027 --> 00:08:08,570 This is a sad day for us, 207 00:08:08,571 --> 00:08:11,407 a sad time for the Today program. 208 00:08:11,408 --> 00:08:14,576 Frank McGee died yesterday at the age of 52. 209 00:08:14,577 --> 00:08:15,994 It was in my contract 210 00:08:15,995 --> 00:08:18,414 that if Frank ever left, I would be cohost. 211 00:08:18,415 --> 00:08:20,582 Nobody expected him to leave. 212 00:08:20,583 --> 00:08:22,376 He died of cancer. 213 00:08:22,377 --> 00:08:26,380 - She got it literally over Frank McGee's dead body. 214 00:08:26,381 --> 00:08:29,258 [soft music] 215 00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,760 Do you know what happened in Today show history 216 00:08:31,761 --> 00:08:34,513 on April 22, 1974? 217 00:08:34,514 --> 00:08:36,306 Well, it's early, so we'll give you a little break. 218 00:08:36,307 --> 00:08:37,975 It's the date that Barbara Walters 219 00:08:37,976 --> 00:08:40,811 became the first female cohost of the Today show. 220 00:08:40,812 --> 00:08:43,647 She often told me, "Oh, we're so alike. 221 00:08:43,648 --> 00:08:46,066 Neither of us is that attractive." 222 00:08:46,067 --> 00:08:49,236 [laughing] I was like, "Thanks." 223 00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:51,822 But I think what she meant is, 224 00:08:51,823 --> 00:08:54,366 our looks were secondary. 225 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,160 - Growing up watching Barbara Walters, 226 00:08:56,161 --> 00:08:58,620 having Barbara Walters in my head 227 00:08:58,621 --> 00:09:01,707 as I am doing my first audition for television-- 228 00:09:01,708 --> 00:09:03,417 I mean, she was a mentor for me 229 00:09:03,418 --> 00:09:05,669 before she knew that she was a mentor. 230 00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:07,880 I remembered seeing you on the Today show. 231 00:09:07,881 --> 00:09:09,798 And you always used to do this. 232 00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:12,426 And I remember you looking up and looking down-- 233 00:09:12,427 --> 00:09:13,927 - I was looking at questions. - Yeah. 234 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:16,221 And so what I did was I'd look down, and then I'd look up, 235 00:09:16,222 --> 00:09:18,223 and I'd talk, and then I'd look down. 236 00:09:18,224 --> 00:09:19,516 Whew! 237 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:21,059 And for the longest time, 238 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:22,686 I'd watch you every morning, 239 00:09:22,687 --> 00:09:25,856 and I'd go on the air, and I'd imitate you. 240 00:09:25,857 --> 00:09:28,067 KATIE: Barbara was tenacious, 241 00:09:28,068 --> 00:09:30,861 and she was ambitious, 242 00:09:30,862 --> 00:09:33,280 which was a dirty word for women. 243 00:09:33,281 --> 00:09:35,949 BARBARA: Until the casket of President Kennedy 244 00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:37,993 leaves the rotunda. 245 00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:40,954 KATIE: She started as the only female staff writer... 246 00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:43,165 BARBARA: Dr. Kissinger, how would you describe your job? 247 00:09:43,166 --> 00:09:45,250 Talking about the Watergate break-in. 248 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:48,045 KATIE: And ultimately became a household name. 249 00:09:48,046 --> 00:09:49,630 - I've been working in television 250 00:09:49,631 --> 00:09:51,465 for almost 20 years now, 251 00:09:51,466 --> 00:09:53,717 11 of those years in front of the cameras. 252 00:09:53,718 --> 00:09:56,470 And I've seen how things have changed for women 253 00:09:56,471 --> 00:09:58,056 and how they haven't changed. 254 00:10:00,558 --> 00:10:02,184 CREW MEMBER: Okay. 255 00:10:02,185 --> 00:10:03,853 Stand by, please. 256 00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:07,731 Clear, please. Okay. 257 00:10:07,732 --> 00:10:09,775 - Listen, tell me about this marriage of yours, 258 00:10:09,776 --> 00:10:12,319 this man whom nobody ever seems to see. 259 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:13,779 We heard that he was here. 260 00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:15,906 We heard that he was in town, but none of us have seen him. 261 00:10:15,907 --> 00:10:17,908 You know, you can give all kinds of reasons 262 00:10:17,909 --> 00:10:19,785 why marriages don't work. 263 00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:24,331 I went from my parents' house to my first marriage. 264 00:10:24,332 --> 00:10:26,500 I was 23, you know? 265 00:10:26,501 --> 00:10:29,170 And it was a marriage that never should have been. 266 00:10:30,672 --> 00:10:34,424 Marriage number two was to a lovely man named Lee Guber. 267 00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,218 Does he share your career? 268 00:10:36,219 --> 00:10:38,303 DOLLY: Well, he--he shares it 269 00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:40,681 to the point that he knows it makes me happy 270 00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:42,141 and he's proud of me. 271 00:10:42,142 --> 00:10:43,309 CREW MEMBER: Stand by. 272 00:10:47,355 --> 00:10:48,565 DOLLY: Oh. 273 00:10:52,944 --> 00:10:55,863 I was in my 30s when Jackie was born. 274 00:10:55,864 --> 00:10:57,656 My daughter's a blessing. 275 00:10:57,657 --> 00:10:59,700 My world came together. 276 00:10:59,701 --> 00:11:01,952 I mean, I was already on the Today show, 277 00:11:01,953 --> 00:11:05,289 and I'd had three miscarriages. 278 00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,916 And now I had everything. 279 00:11:07,917 --> 00:11:10,127 Today people are more accepting. 280 00:11:10,128 --> 00:11:12,004 You can bring your kid to the office. 281 00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:13,338 In those days, 282 00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,549 if I had brought Jackie into the studio, 283 00:11:15,550 --> 00:11:18,135 it would be as if I had brought 284 00:11:18,136 --> 00:11:20,679 a dog who was not housebroken. 285 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,099 KATIE: This idea of a working mother 286 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,935 seemed like an oxymoron. 287 00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:30,397 People didn't think you could take care of a child 288 00:11:30,398 --> 00:11:34,526 or take care of a husband and have a full-time job. 289 00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:37,404 BARBARA: I took two days off, and that was it. 290 00:11:37,405 --> 00:11:38,780 HOST: We're right in the middle 291 00:11:38,781 --> 00:11:40,616 of a fascinating time in your family life. 292 00:11:40,617 --> 00:11:41,825 Your daughter's-- 293 00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:44,161 - Yes, it's her first day of school this week. 294 00:11:44,162 --> 00:11:45,162 She's fine. 295 00:11:45,163 --> 00:11:46,622 We're scared to death, you know. 296 00:11:46,623 --> 00:11:49,625 She'll drink her juice and eat her cookies, and we'll cry. 297 00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,376 You know, I can see she's gonna leave us, 298 00:11:51,377 --> 00:11:53,378 and she'll say, "Don't be nervous, Mommy and Daddy. 299 00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:54,546 Now don't cry," you know. 300 00:11:54,547 --> 00:11:55,714 "I'll be all right." 301 00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:56,965 - Do you stay for long? No, you just-- 302 00:11:56,966 --> 00:11:58,383 - The first time? - Yes. 303 00:11:58,384 --> 00:11:59,593 - Do you really care about this? 304 00:11:59,594 --> 00:12:02,638 - I'm fascinated, yes. [laughter] 305 00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:05,182 BARBARA: Lee was working mostly nights. 306 00:12:05,183 --> 00:12:06,558 He was in show business. 307 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,977 I was working in the early morning. 308 00:12:08,978 --> 00:12:10,938 We didn't see that much of each other. 309 00:12:10,939 --> 00:12:12,814 Little by little, we-- 310 00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:15,651 we just had less and less to say to each other. 311 00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:19,446 This was the storybook love affair, 312 00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:21,531 and we wanted it to last 313 00:12:21,532 --> 00:12:23,992 and knew how hard you worked at it 314 00:12:23,993 --> 00:12:27,287 and then felt really great disappointment that it didn't. 315 00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:30,624 - You have to accept inevitability. 316 00:12:30,625 --> 00:12:33,418 It was just the time 317 00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:36,463 for that point in our lives to close. 318 00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:38,423 BARBARA: That was very difficult for me, 319 00:12:38,424 --> 00:12:43,011 because by that time, we had a four-year-old child. 320 00:12:43,012 --> 00:12:46,765 I don't think that I was very good at marriage. 321 00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:51,186 It may be that my career was just too important. 322 00:12:51,187 --> 00:12:53,981 It may have been that I was a difficult person 323 00:12:53,982 --> 00:12:55,482 to be married to 324 00:12:55,483 --> 00:12:59,027 and I wasn't willing, perhaps, to give that much. 325 00:12:59,028 --> 00:13:00,696 You know, there are those people who say 326 00:13:00,697 --> 00:13:03,115 that a woman has to be twice as aggressive. 327 00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:05,492 She has to be twice as hardworking 328 00:13:05,493 --> 00:13:08,954 to hold the same executive position as a man. 329 00:13:08,955 --> 00:13:10,706 But through it all, 330 00:13:10,707 --> 00:13:14,835 there was this career that I felt I needed to have. 331 00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:17,087 And I loved it. 332 00:13:17,088 --> 00:13:20,090 [dynamic music] 333 00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:23,593 ♪ ♪ 334 00:13:23,594 --> 00:13:25,220 - Good evening. I'm Roger Grimsby. 335 00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:26,305 Here now the news. 336 00:13:26,306 --> 00:13:28,849 - Evening news, that was journalism. 337 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:30,517 Morning news, mm. 338 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:35,564 But the evening-news anchor was the face of the network. 339 00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:37,774 This is where the guys played. 340 00:13:37,775 --> 00:13:40,986 You know, this was all about status. 341 00:13:40,987 --> 00:13:42,404 CREW MEMBER: 15. 342 00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:44,740 CONNIE: The person who dominated evening news 343 00:13:44,741 --> 00:13:48,035 was Walter Cronkite, who worked at CBS. 344 00:13:48,036 --> 00:13:51,455 He was avuncular, as they say. 345 00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:53,999 He was credible. He was honest. 346 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,209 He was Uncle Walter. 347 00:13:56,210 --> 00:14:01,132 So the evening news was the crème de la crème. 348 00:14:02,467 --> 00:14:06,261 CYNTHIA: It was a big deal when Barbara left 349 00:14:06,262 --> 00:14:08,513 the official co-host of the Today show 350 00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:11,058 and she goes to ABC 351 00:14:11,059 --> 00:14:13,393 as the co-anchor with Harry Reasoner 352 00:14:13,394 --> 00:14:15,313 of the evening news. 353 00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:18,065 This was the big time. 354 00:14:18,066 --> 00:14:19,066 PERSON: Ladies and gentlemen, 355 00:14:19,067 --> 00:14:20,650 if we can get started, please. 356 00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:22,152 OPRAH: It was such a big victory. 357 00:14:22,153 --> 00:14:24,571 I think, at the time, she got a million dollars. 358 00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,947 And we were all like, 359 00:14:25,948 --> 00:14:28,575 Barbara Walters is getting a million dollars! 360 00:14:28,576 --> 00:14:32,370 And as a young anchorwoman who was making $22,000, 361 00:14:32,371 --> 00:14:36,333 that was hope for me that if she can get a million, 362 00:14:36,334 --> 00:14:39,169 maybe I can get $50,000 one day. 363 00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:41,755 BARBARA: 5 years, $5 million. 364 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:44,341 I don't feel that I'm coming here to save the news. 365 00:14:44,342 --> 00:14:46,968 I'm coming here to add to the strength 366 00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:48,970 that Harry has already brought to this program. 367 00:14:48,971 --> 00:14:50,555 - [imitating Barbara] I want to take this opportunity 368 00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:52,599 to apologize to NBC. 369 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,309 I don't like leaving. 370 00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:56,561 Please trust me, it's not sour grapes, 371 00:14:56,562 --> 00:14:59,397 but rather that another network 372 00:14:59,398 --> 00:15:01,608 recognizes in me a great talent 373 00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:03,985 for delivering relevant news stories 374 00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,198 with crystal clarity to millions of Americans. 375 00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:13,036 BARBARA: When I left NBC, the papers were awful to me. 376 00:15:13,037 --> 00:15:15,122 I became the Million Dollar Baby. 377 00:15:15,123 --> 00:15:19,835 - It just reverberated all over the country. 378 00:15:19,836 --> 00:15:23,797 It was at a time when the women's movement 379 00:15:23,798 --> 00:15:26,133 was really gaining steam. 380 00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,801 And suddenly we had a woman 381 00:15:27,802 --> 00:15:31,221 who was going to be delivering the news every single night. 382 00:15:31,222 --> 00:15:33,640 - Her contract, for a rumored million dollars a year, 383 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:35,600 specifies that she'll co-anchor 384 00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:37,269 the ABC Evening News. 385 00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:39,229 - So the struggle has been to keep the packaging 386 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,857 from dominating the contents of the package. 387 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:44,526 But now a network has hired a lady to read the news, 388 00:15:44,527 --> 00:15:47,654 plus other studio chores, for $1 million a year. 389 00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:48,947 And the intramural worry is 390 00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:50,574 that maybe the struggle has been lost. 391 00:15:50,575 --> 00:15:52,409 - I don't feel I have to rationalize it. 392 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:57,080 I was offered that money by both ABC and NBC. 393 00:15:57,081 --> 00:16:00,041 I can't imagine anyone turning it down. 394 00:16:00,042 --> 00:16:02,210 VICTOR: There was all this excitement. 395 00:16:02,211 --> 00:16:04,212 A star's coming to ABC. 396 00:16:04,213 --> 00:16:07,966 There was a pink typewriter that was delivered. 397 00:16:07,967 --> 00:16:09,634 - It's just one piece of copy, Mary? 398 00:16:09,635 --> 00:16:11,761 MARY: Sorry? - One piece of copy? 399 00:16:11,762 --> 00:16:13,305 MARY: That's all. - Okay. 400 00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:15,223 VICTOR: And people would say, "Harry, what do you think? 401 00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,641 "Let's go look at the new set. 402 00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:18,435 They're building a set for the both of you." 403 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:21,271 And he kind of grumbled, like, oh, well, whatever, you know? 404 00:16:21,272 --> 00:16:22,480 Like that kind of thing. 405 00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:24,191 - Ready, three? - One. 406 00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:26,026 - Take three. Cue Barbara. 407 00:16:26,027 --> 00:16:27,694 - Well, tonight has finally come for me, 408 00:16:27,695 --> 00:16:29,696 and I'm very pleased to be with you, Harry, 409 00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:30,947 and with ABC News. 410 00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:33,909 Here was my chance-- historic, they told me-- 411 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:36,703 to be the first female co-anchor 412 00:16:36,704 --> 00:16:39,289 of a network news program. 413 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:43,668 Well, I thought, what an opportunity. 414 00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:45,754 It was a mistake. 415 00:16:45,755 --> 00:16:48,256 CYNTHIA: Harry Reasoner made no bones 416 00:16:48,257 --> 00:16:51,009 about the fact that he did not want her there. 417 00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:52,677 He didn't want any co-anchor, 418 00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:54,346 and he certainly didn't want her. 419 00:16:54,347 --> 00:16:56,473 - The decision was to welcome you as I would 420 00:16:56,474 --> 00:16:59,017 any respected and competent colleague of any sex 421 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,269 by noting that I've kept time on your stories 422 00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:02,604 and mine tonight. 423 00:17:02,605 --> 00:17:05,106 You owe me four minutes. - [laughs] 424 00:17:05,107 --> 00:17:08,526 - I think most people had this attitude of, 425 00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:10,320 who does she think she is? 426 00:17:10,321 --> 00:17:15,033 We're not getting our news from some lady, some chick. 427 00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:17,744 - From five seconds down? CREW MEMBER: Right. Ten... 428 00:17:17,745 --> 00:17:19,537 - I'd rather have ten seconds down. 429 00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:22,082 KATIE: It gave rise to so much sexism 430 00:17:22,083 --> 00:17:24,292 that made it even harder for her. 431 00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:25,961 BILLIE EILISH: ♪ So you're a tough guy ♪ 432 00:17:25,962 --> 00:17:27,754 ♪ "Like it really rough" guy ♪ 433 00:17:27,755 --> 00:17:29,547 ♪ "Just can't get enough" guy ♪ 434 00:17:29,548 --> 00:17:32,008 ♪ "Chest always so puffed" guy ♪ 435 00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:34,928 ♪ I'm that bad type, "make your mama sad" type ♪ 436 00:17:34,929 --> 00:17:36,513 ♪ "Make your girlfriend mad" type ♪ 437 00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,598 - Here at 9:30 Eastern time. 438 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:42,519 BILLIE EILISH: ♪ I'm the bad guy ♪ 439 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,728 Duh. 440 00:17:43,729 --> 00:17:46,481 ♪ ♪ 441 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:50,485 - In 1976, I was a production assistant at ABC. 442 00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:52,112 - Thank you very much, Barbara. 443 00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:53,280 Good night. 444 00:17:53,281 --> 00:17:55,156 BOB: There was absolutely no chemistry, 445 00:17:55,157 --> 00:17:57,033 either on air or on set. 446 00:17:57,034 --> 00:17:58,868 Everybody was aware of that, 447 00:17:58,869 --> 00:18:02,247 and we all felt kind of uncomfortable about it. 448 00:18:02,248 --> 00:18:04,583 - I have to shoot an arrow into Barbara Walters. 449 00:18:04,584 --> 00:18:07,127 - Ah, You mean you're making her fall in love 450 00:18:07,128 --> 00:18:08,753 with Harry Reasoner? - No. 451 00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:10,130 Harry just paid me to shoot her. 452 00:18:10,131 --> 00:18:11,506 - Just didn't care. - Straightaway. 453 00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:12,716 - It's nice to see you. 454 00:18:12,717 --> 00:18:14,092 - Can we also, by the way, one of these days, 455 00:18:14,093 --> 00:18:15,427 have all the same pictures and everything? 456 00:18:15,428 --> 00:18:16,720 - Oh, no. 457 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:19,014 BARBARA: I would walk into that studio, 458 00:18:19,015 --> 00:18:22,100 and Harry would be sitting with the stagehands, 459 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:24,436 and they'd all crack jokes and ignore me. 460 00:18:24,437 --> 00:18:25,895 And no one would talk to me. 461 00:18:25,896 --> 00:18:28,023 There was not a woman on the staff. 462 00:18:28,024 --> 00:18:29,316 Good evening. 463 00:18:29,317 --> 00:18:31,151 VICTOR: It was awkward. 464 00:18:31,152 --> 00:18:33,778 The show began. They did their small talk. 465 00:18:33,779 --> 00:18:36,031 HARRY: From Barbara and me, good night. 466 00:18:36,032 --> 00:18:37,824 VICTOR: It ended. 467 00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:40,201 No one said anything to her. 468 00:18:40,202 --> 00:18:43,246 She got up, and I escorted her back. 469 00:18:43,247 --> 00:18:45,957 This memory was like yesterday. 470 00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:47,584 We're walking back. 471 00:18:47,585 --> 00:18:49,669 Her head was down, 472 00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:54,132 and her fists were clenched by her side, looking down. 473 00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:58,471 Fists so tight, I felt it walking next to her. 474 00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:02,807 And she was hurt. 475 00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:05,894 BARBARA: I thought it was the end of my professional career 476 00:19:05,895 --> 00:19:08,063 after all these years of working. 477 00:19:08,064 --> 00:19:11,650 It was the most painful period in my life. 478 00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:16,237 - ABC announced today that Roone Arledge, 479 00:19:16,238 --> 00:19:18,448 who is now president of ABC Sports, 480 00:19:18,449 --> 00:19:21,242 will head a newly formed news and sports division, 481 00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:22,994 effective June 1st. 482 00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:25,789 VICTOR: Roone Arledge was the president of ABC Sports, 483 00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:27,457 and he created that great 484 00:19:27,458 --> 00:19:29,292 "sports as entertainment" concept-- 485 00:19:29,293 --> 00:19:30,835 Wide World of Sports, 486 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:33,338 multiple cameras and video replays, 487 00:19:33,339 --> 00:19:35,715 stop action in the Olympics. 488 00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,635 So he was brought to ABC News to change ABC News, 489 00:19:38,636 --> 00:19:40,428 to bring it into kind of a modern, 490 00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:42,847 more entertaining era. 491 00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:44,557 BARBARA: Roone Arledge was my savior. 492 00:19:44,558 --> 00:19:48,061 He had the vision to say, 493 00:19:48,062 --> 00:19:49,813 "we can do something with her," 494 00:19:49,814 --> 00:19:52,148 and made me a roving reporter. 495 00:19:52,149 --> 00:19:55,944 And he gave me free rein and said, "Go. 496 00:19:55,945 --> 00:19:58,280 Go get them. Go get those interviews." 497 00:20:00,116 --> 00:20:04,244 Roone bet on me. It was a big gamble. 498 00:20:04,245 --> 00:20:07,288 REPORTER 1: No Arab leader has publicly visited Israel 499 00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:10,583 since the Jewish state was founded in 1948, 500 00:20:10,584 --> 00:20:12,669 a period during which Israel and the Arabs 501 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:14,546 have fought four major conflicts. 502 00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:16,172 REPORTER 2: But now all obstacles 503 00:20:16,173 --> 00:20:17,465 appear to have been removed 504 00:20:17,466 --> 00:20:19,467 for peace discussions in Jerusalem 505 00:20:19,468 --> 00:20:21,261 between Egyptian President Sadat 506 00:20:21,262 --> 00:20:23,096 and Israeli Prime Minister Begin. 507 00:20:23,097 --> 00:20:26,891 - If President Sadat wants an official formal invitation 508 00:20:26,892 --> 00:20:28,768 from me, he has it. 509 00:20:28,769 --> 00:20:30,103 BARBARA: Everybody said, "what? 510 00:20:30,104 --> 00:20:32,522 An Egyptian president going to Israel?" 511 00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:34,482 And so all hell broke loose. 512 00:20:34,483 --> 00:20:36,025 This is Barbara Walters in Israel, 513 00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:37,318 where the country is racing 514 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:38,945 through last-minute preparations 515 00:20:38,946 --> 00:20:40,530 for the arrival tomorrow evening 516 00:20:40,531 --> 00:20:42,824 of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. 517 00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:45,034 I arrived in Tel Aviv, 518 00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:47,537 got a call from Roone Arledge saying, 519 00:20:47,538 --> 00:20:50,165 "Walter Cronkite is in Cairo. 520 00:20:50,166 --> 00:20:52,584 John Chancellor is on his way. Get there." 521 00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:55,128 We rented a plane. 522 00:20:55,129 --> 00:20:58,548 I was so exhausted, I fell asleep... 523 00:20:58,549 --> 00:21:00,925 woke up, looked down, I thought it was a mirage-- 524 00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:03,136 I saw the pyramids. 525 00:21:03,137 --> 00:21:05,972 And when I got off... 526 00:21:05,973 --> 00:21:09,517 waiting there were John Chancellor 527 00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:10,935 and Walter Cronkite. 528 00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:13,313 And they were not very happy to see me. 529 00:21:13,314 --> 00:21:14,439 CONNIE: All of a sudden, 530 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,232 Barbara shows up on the tarmac, 531 00:21:16,233 --> 00:21:18,359 as Walter describes it, 532 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,572 as if she's a substitute for a game, going... 533 00:21:22,573 --> 00:21:26,367 And Anwar Sadat sees Barbara and goes, "Barbara!" 534 00:21:26,368 --> 00:21:28,578 - You okay, Barbara? - Yes, I am. 535 00:21:28,579 --> 00:21:30,371 - You will be joining me. - Hi, how are you? 536 00:21:30,372 --> 00:21:32,373 - Walter. Walter. - Good to see you. 537 00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:33,541 How are you? 538 00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:34,751 And good luck. 539 00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:36,544 - How do you find it with Barbara? 540 00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:38,338 [laughter] 541 00:21:38,339 --> 00:21:41,382 - I hadn't planned it that way. 542 00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:44,260 [indistinct chatter, applause] 543 00:21:44,261 --> 00:21:47,764 - Mr. President, Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan 544 00:21:47,765 --> 00:21:49,557 and Prime Minister Begin 545 00:21:49,558 --> 00:21:51,559 have said that they are willing 546 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,020 to talk the principles of peace with you. 547 00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:57,232 They are willing to talk specifics and substance. 548 00:21:57,233 --> 00:21:59,025 Are you willing to do this? 549 00:21:59,026 --> 00:22:01,819 - Sure. For sure, I am willing to do this. 550 00:22:01,820 --> 00:22:04,155 If they are ready, I am ready. 551 00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:06,282 - Go ahead, Barbara. - Thank you, Barbara. 552 00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:10,286 BARBARA: On the plane from Egypt to Israel, 553 00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:13,039 I asked Anwar Sadat-- slipped him a note 554 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,375 and asked if he would sit and do an interview with me. 555 00:22:15,376 --> 00:22:18,503 Yes, no, alone, or with Prime Minister Begin. 556 00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:21,506 And he said yes, but alone. 557 00:22:21,507 --> 00:22:22,924 PETER: On that plane also will be 558 00:22:22,925 --> 00:22:25,385 my co-commentator and distinguished lady 559 00:22:25,386 --> 00:22:28,471 who went to Egypt today from Israel, Barbara Walters. 560 00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,223 And there is Barbara coming down the stairs-- 561 00:22:30,224 --> 00:22:31,599 Barbara Walters. 562 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,351 VICTOR: She turned out to be, 563 00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:35,812 in the best possible definition of the word, 564 00:22:35,813 --> 00:22:37,021 a killer. 565 00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:38,649 BARBARA: Okay, we are ready. 566 00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:43,069 BARBARA: I went to Jerusalem and did an interview 567 00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:44,946 with Prime Minister Begin that night. 568 00:22:44,947 --> 00:22:46,489 We have to do this, very quickly, okay. 569 00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:47,532 Do not answer me. 570 00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:49,285 I'm just going to repeat my questions. 571 00:22:55,291 --> 00:22:57,625 [laughter] I'll look at you. 572 00:22:57,626 --> 00:22:59,335 - I don't know how I ever manage 573 00:22:59,336 --> 00:23:00,795 to get through these interviews with you. 574 00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:02,839 He said, "Barbara, I forgot to tell you. 575 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,424 "I said to Anwar Sadat, 576 00:23:04,425 --> 00:23:06,259 "for the sake of our friend Barbara, 577 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,261 "would you do an interview together? 578 00:23:08,262 --> 00:23:10,054 And, Barbara, he said yes." 579 00:23:10,055 --> 00:23:11,431 I said, "Mr. Prime Minister, 580 00:23:11,432 --> 00:23:13,725 you're the best agent I've ever had." 581 00:23:13,726 --> 00:23:15,643 - Both leaders sat down together 582 00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:18,104 with ABC's Barbara Walters for an exclusive interview. 583 00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:21,316 And it was a fascinating, in my judgment, look 584 00:23:21,317 --> 00:23:23,151 at history being made in front of us. 585 00:23:23,152 --> 00:23:27,322 - President Sadat, you said that your people, 586 00:23:27,323 --> 00:23:30,325 the Arab people, would not concede one inch 587 00:23:30,326 --> 00:23:32,243 of occupied land. 588 00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:34,704 Is that negotiable? 589 00:23:34,705 --> 00:23:36,539 - Not at all. BARBARA: Not at all. 590 00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:38,124 - Yes, frankly, not at all, 591 00:23:38,125 --> 00:23:42,211 but it doesn't mean at all that we should not try. 592 00:23:42,212 --> 00:23:44,297 BARBARA: So there might be a ray of light. 593 00:23:44,298 --> 00:23:47,091 There might be a somewhat different position 594 00:23:47,092 --> 00:23:48,468 down the road. 595 00:23:48,469 --> 00:23:50,887 - [laughs] 596 00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:53,097 You are always like this, Barbara. 597 00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:54,933 [laughter] 598 00:23:54,934 --> 00:23:57,560 - I try to be. - On everything. 599 00:23:57,561 --> 00:23:58,895 Well-- 600 00:23:58,896 --> 00:24:01,147 - This is what people are going to be asking of you. 601 00:24:01,148 --> 00:24:04,484 - Politics can't be conducted like this, like-- 602 00:24:04,485 --> 00:24:06,194 - I have to keep trying. 603 00:24:06,195 --> 00:24:08,446 KATIE: It was history making, 604 00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:11,741 but it also showed Walter Cronkite 605 00:24:11,742 --> 00:24:14,243 and John Chancellor who was boss. 606 00:24:14,244 --> 00:24:16,746 She totally edged them out, 607 00:24:16,747 --> 00:24:19,582 which must have been so sweet for her. 608 00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:22,293 WALTER: But if I could just press you one more moment... 609 00:24:22,294 --> 00:24:24,921 KATIE: Walter Cronkite later interviewed the two of them. 610 00:24:24,922 --> 00:24:28,925 But, honestly, if you're not first, you're not anything. 611 00:24:28,926 --> 00:24:30,927 VICTOR: And then... 612 00:24:30,928 --> 00:24:33,681 the real Barbara Walters career began. 613 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,143 CREW MEMBER: All right, everybody, quiet. 614 00:24:39,144 --> 00:24:40,812 Take 201. 615 00:24:40,813 --> 00:24:42,982 NARRATOR: The Barbara Walters Special. 616 00:24:44,817 --> 00:24:46,985 - Good evening. I'm Barbara Walters. 617 00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:49,070 The million-dollar contract 618 00:24:49,071 --> 00:24:51,406 was not just for me to do the news, 619 00:24:51,407 --> 00:24:54,909 but for me to do a series of one-hour prime-time specials. 620 00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:57,328 You're not embarrassed. I am. JIMMY: I'm not. 621 00:24:57,329 --> 00:24:59,580 - Well, then, okay, if you're not, I'll go on. 622 00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:01,290 Do you sleep in a double bed or twin bed? 623 00:25:01,291 --> 00:25:02,709 - Double bed. - Double bed. 624 00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:04,544 When I was growing up in St. Louis, 625 00:25:04,545 --> 00:25:05,878 I was obsessed with TV. 626 00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:09,173 And Barbara Walters, to me, just always represented 627 00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:10,758 event television. 628 00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:12,552 - If you were a man, you would not marry 629 00:25:12,553 --> 00:25:14,345 a woman with a career. - No. 630 00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:16,597 I wouldn't be that big a fool. 631 00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:19,517 - This was a day when big stars-- 632 00:25:19,518 --> 00:25:23,271 you didn't get to see them being interviewed anywhere. 633 00:25:23,272 --> 00:25:25,606 - Stick around for a while longer, will you? 634 00:25:25,607 --> 00:25:27,692 - I sure want to. 635 00:25:27,693 --> 00:25:29,819 BARBARA: I was criticized for doing specials 636 00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:32,029 that had people in the news 637 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:33,614 along with celebrities. 638 00:25:33,615 --> 00:25:35,074 You can't do both. 639 00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,160 Well, you can, and I did. 640 00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:39,829 And today we see it all the time. 641 00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:43,374 You are a man of secrecy and mystery. 642 00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:44,459 Are you married? 643 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:46,794 - [speaking Spanish] - [speaking Spanish] 644 00:25:46,795 --> 00:25:48,629 - In a personal conversation between us two, 645 00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:50,590 we can talk about that, but why do we have to talk 646 00:25:50,591 --> 00:25:52,216 about this for the large public? 647 00:25:52,217 --> 00:25:54,010 - You don't have to talk about it. 648 00:25:54,011 --> 00:25:56,721 But there are people who are very curious about you. 649 00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:59,599 And it is interesting that a simple question like, 650 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,602 are you married, not very complicated, 651 00:26:02,603 --> 00:26:04,604 causes such an uproar. 652 00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:07,857 - [speaking Spanish] - Formally, no. 653 00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:10,276 CYNTHIA: Interviews were always a staple, right? 654 00:26:10,277 --> 00:26:13,863 But interviews tended to be about issues. 655 00:26:13,864 --> 00:26:16,616 This was a profile of the person. 656 00:26:16,617 --> 00:26:18,409 - I know you don't like personal questions. 657 00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:19,786 - Uh-huh. 658 00:26:19,787 --> 00:26:21,621 - So I will start by asking you something very simple 659 00:26:21,622 --> 00:26:23,372 and easy for you to answer. - Okay. 660 00:26:23,373 --> 00:26:27,251 - Will you tell me all about your first sexual experience? 661 00:26:27,252 --> 00:26:30,588 - My first sexual experi-- [laughter] 662 00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:34,050 ANDY: Have all of her clips aged great? 663 00:26:34,051 --> 00:26:37,053 No, but at the time, 664 00:26:37,054 --> 00:26:40,264 she was very representative 665 00:26:40,265 --> 00:26:43,768 of where the line was in the culture, 666 00:26:43,769 --> 00:26:47,522 and she knew how to dance just on the line. 667 00:26:47,523 --> 00:26:48,731 - Sure. 668 00:26:48,732 --> 00:26:49,941 BARBARA: What's it like to be a homosexual? 669 00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:51,192 Are you happy with your weight? 670 00:26:51,193 --> 00:26:52,652 Do you drink too much? 671 00:26:52,653 --> 00:26:54,529 - And I wanted to know, by the way. 672 00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,115 - This is only a small mansion on the hill, Barbara. 673 00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:59,534 KATIE: Barbara did Cribs before Cribs was Cribs. 674 00:26:59,535 --> 00:27:01,536 - This is where I sleep. - Yes. 675 00:27:01,537 --> 00:27:03,830 - This is where I'm going to make my children. 676 00:27:03,831 --> 00:27:07,291 - We have 85,000 feet of home movies. 677 00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:09,502 - She went into people's new homes. 678 00:27:09,503 --> 00:27:11,170 She went into people's closets. 679 00:27:11,171 --> 00:27:12,880 She went into people's kitchens. 680 00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:14,632 - Oh, God, that's enough, Barbara. 681 00:27:14,633 --> 00:27:16,884 KATIE: I remember she sat on the floor 682 00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:20,137 with Eddie Murphy when she profiled him. 683 00:27:20,138 --> 00:27:21,681 - [laughs] 684 00:27:21,682 --> 00:27:25,393 KATIE: At the time, it was a very different approach. 685 00:27:25,394 --> 00:27:28,604 It wasn't a chair across from a chair. 686 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:30,231 - I don't want to hurt your feelings, 687 00:27:30,232 --> 00:27:33,609 but this is the scroungiest Jeep I have ever-- 688 00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:34,986 The upholstery is coming out. 689 00:27:34,987 --> 00:27:36,320 CYNTHIA: In the beginning, 690 00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:40,074 it was very controversial to put hard-news interviews... 691 00:27:40,075 --> 00:27:42,618 - It's been eight months since that assassination attempt. 692 00:27:42,619 --> 00:27:45,371 CYNTHIA: Next to celebrity interviews. 693 00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,747 And there were many who felt 694 00:27:46,748 --> 00:27:49,625 that she was just lowering standards. 695 00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:51,711 - Do you believe in fidelity when you're married? 696 00:27:51,712 --> 00:27:54,548 - What's fidelity? - Staying with one woman only. 697 00:27:56,884 --> 00:28:00,344 Nobody's listening. - [laughs] 698 00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:02,513 BOB: She had a vision back then 699 00:28:02,514 --> 00:28:04,348 that celebrities are news. 700 00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:06,225 She was criticized in that regard, 701 00:28:06,226 --> 00:28:07,727 because she actually believed, 702 00:28:07,728 --> 00:28:09,562 and I think she turned out to be right, 703 00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:10,855 that they were news makers... 704 00:28:10,856 --> 00:28:12,523 CREW MEMBER: And action. 705 00:28:12,524 --> 00:28:14,191 BOB: She was practicing 706 00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:17,486 the art of journalism when she was interviewing them. 707 00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:18,988 - Are we doing this for real? 708 00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:21,574 - Yeah. Yeah. - Oh. [chuckles] 709 00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:22,992 BARBARA: Okay. 710 00:28:22,993 --> 00:28:25,620 - She asked me to be a guest on her show. 711 00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:27,413 And, of course, I was very flattered, 712 00:28:27,414 --> 00:28:29,165 because it was a big deal. 713 00:28:29,166 --> 00:28:31,959 And I had a lot of fun with her when she interviewed me. 714 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,128 I can be so boring. 715 00:28:34,129 --> 00:28:35,880 - Not now, please. - No. 716 00:28:35,881 --> 00:28:37,214 - The next interview. 717 00:28:37,215 --> 00:28:39,300 BETTE: It wasn't as stiff as it usually was. 718 00:28:39,301 --> 00:28:41,761 It was a lot more fun. You'd laugh. She'd laugh. 719 00:28:41,762 --> 00:28:42,845 Okay. 720 00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:46,182 She was infamous for asking questions 721 00:28:46,183 --> 00:28:47,975 that just came out of the blue. 722 00:28:47,976 --> 00:28:49,644 - What do you think of the way you look? 723 00:28:49,645 --> 00:28:51,604 - I think I look great. - No, no kidding. 724 00:28:51,605 --> 00:28:53,064 - No kidding. - Why do I say "no kidding"? 725 00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:55,232 - Yeah, hey. - Because... 726 00:28:55,233 --> 00:28:58,361 - Hey, hey, get out of my house. 727 00:28:58,362 --> 00:29:01,197 She actually had a lot of spunk. 728 00:29:01,198 --> 00:29:02,949 She was fearless. 729 00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:05,117 - Do you think you're sexy? - I know I'm sexy. 730 00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:09,413 - On the scale of one to ten, what are you? 731 00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:12,792 - What am I, on a scale of one to ten? 732 00:29:12,793 --> 00:29:16,212 Oh, I think I'm about a 55. I don't know. 733 00:29:16,213 --> 00:29:18,506 [laughter] I think I'm a happening girl. 734 00:29:18,507 --> 00:29:20,841 I think what made Barbara Walters different 735 00:29:20,842 --> 00:29:23,010 from most of the other interviewers 736 00:29:23,011 --> 00:29:25,221 was that she always found a way in. 737 00:29:25,222 --> 00:29:27,181 She always did her homework. 738 00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:30,226 And she always put you at ease 739 00:29:30,227 --> 00:29:32,436 and then would sort of go in for the zinger. 740 00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:33,854 - What about drugs? 741 00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:35,272 BETTE: I don't really like them. 742 00:29:35,273 --> 00:29:37,274 I can't do them. I've done them. 743 00:29:37,275 --> 00:29:38,859 - See, I think there are people who'll see you onstage 744 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,111 and think, that's where it comes from, 745 00:29:40,112 --> 00:29:41,404 that enormous energy. BETTE: Oh, no. 746 00:29:41,405 --> 00:29:43,698 Oh, no. No, that's totally natural. 747 00:29:43,699 --> 00:29:46,283 I considered her a friend, 748 00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:49,161 but I also considered her a journalist. 749 00:29:49,162 --> 00:29:51,288 So, as much as I liked her, 750 00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:54,375 I felt that I had to be careful. 751 00:29:54,376 --> 00:29:56,043 She knew a lot. 752 00:29:56,044 --> 00:29:58,254 - I know that you were seeing a great deal of someone... 753 00:29:58,255 --> 00:29:59,588 - Peter. - And you just broke up-- 754 00:29:59,589 --> 00:30:01,048 Peter Rieger. - "Just broke up"? 755 00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:02,675 - You didn't? That's what I read. 756 00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:04,510 - Who told you that? 757 00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:07,054 I didn't even know it myself! - I read it in the-- 758 00:30:07,055 --> 00:30:09,473 - Well, this is embarrassing. - Oh, that's just fine. 759 00:30:09,474 --> 00:30:11,267 Stop now because we have to reload. 760 00:30:11,268 --> 00:30:12,768 - Could I have a glass of water? 761 00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:14,478 - You can have anything you want. 762 00:30:14,479 --> 00:30:16,605 BETTE: She had poise and a presentation 763 00:30:16,606 --> 00:30:18,315 that was really elegant. 764 00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:19,734 She was very beautiful. 765 00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:21,777 She was very beautiful, 766 00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:24,822 except that I would say that she didn't feel beautiful 767 00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:26,866 or that she didn't feel-- 768 00:30:26,867 --> 00:30:29,201 with her upbringing, she didn't feel 769 00:30:29,202 --> 00:30:30,786 like she belonged-- 770 00:30:30,787 --> 00:30:32,830 you know, some little bit of insecurity. 771 00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:35,541 But she'd never let you see her sweat, 772 00:30:35,542 --> 00:30:39,045 which is a kind of a courageousness that is, 773 00:30:39,046 --> 00:30:41,630 you know, really sublime, really hard. 774 00:30:41,631 --> 00:30:43,758 There are fronts behind fronts, 775 00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:45,885 façades behind façades. 776 00:30:45,886 --> 00:30:50,098 And inside is usually, you know, the kid. 777 00:30:51,725 --> 00:30:53,684 Her father was a showman, 778 00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:56,145 and he had a club in the Times Square district 779 00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:57,563 called the Latin Quarter. 780 00:30:57,564 --> 00:31:01,567 ANNOUNCER: Lou Walters' fabulous Latin Quarter revue! 781 00:31:01,568 --> 00:31:05,362 [fanfare playing] 782 00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:07,323 [applause] 783 00:31:07,324 --> 00:31:10,326 - ♪ You're walking down the street ♪ 784 00:31:10,327 --> 00:31:14,330 ♪ Suddenly you meet a pair of lovers dancing along ♪ 785 00:31:14,331 --> 00:31:16,582 - I have lived, I don't mind telling you, 786 00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:20,127 on sex ever since I've been in show business. 787 00:31:20,128 --> 00:31:21,670 BARBARA: My father would have been 788 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:23,380 called an entrepreneur today. 789 00:31:23,381 --> 00:31:27,510 He opened his first nightclub in Boston. 790 00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:29,595 LOU: The first impact 791 00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:34,391 that my shows have is glamour. 792 00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:36,352 BARBARA: The Latin Quarter in Boston 793 00:31:36,353 --> 00:31:39,814 was a huge success. 794 00:31:39,815 --> 00:31:43,400 And it went on from there to Florida to New York. 795 00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:45,945 I mean, he did these gorgeous, glorious shows. 796 00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:47,321 I knew every celebrity-- 797 00:31:47,322 --> 00:31:50,324 Frank Sinatra and Milton Berle and Sophie Tucker. 798 00:31:50,325 --> 00:31:51,867 [applause] 799 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:53,911 On the surface, it was wonderful. 800 00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:56,205 But, you know, he came home at 3:00 in the morning. 801 00:31:56,206 --> 00:31:57,957 He slept until 1:00 in the afternoon. 802 00:31:57,958 --> 00:32:00,292 It was a show-business life. 803 00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:02,169 I would sit in the lighting booth, 804 00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:03,963 because I was too young to sit downstairs, 805 00:32:03,964 --> 00:32:06,382 and watch the lavish numbers 806 00:32:06,383 --> 00:32:09,803 of beautiful girls and beautiful costumes. 807 00:32:11,721 --> 00:32:14,515 And then I'd see them backstage without the makeup. 808 00:32:14,516 --> 00:32:16,851 I'd hear their problems. 809 00:32:16,852 --> 00:32:20,396 I learned that celebrities were human beings, 810 00:32:20,397 --> 00:32:22,482 and I have never been in awe... 811 00:32:25,277 --> 00:32:28,654 So that years later, when I began to do interviews, 812 00:32:28,655 --> 00:32:32,658 I knew that underneath sometimes the façade 813 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:34,827 of security or beauty, so forth, 814 00:32:34,828 --> 00:32:37,913 there was a bleeding heart. 815 00:32:37,914 --> 00:32:39,290 [device beeps] 816 00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:41,209 Okay, we all set? 817 00:32:43,044 --> 00:32:44,420 When you think about it, 818 00:32:44,421 --> 00:32:46,422 if I say, what's the quickest childhood memory 819 00:32:46,423 --> 00:32:48,215 that comes into your mind, what does? 820 00:32:48,216 --> 00:32:49,884 Tell me about your childhood. 821 00:32:49,885 --> 00:32:52,803 Tell me the story of your life in two minutes, you know, 822 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:56,015 starting with "I was born," and then and then and then. 823 00:32:56,016 --> 00:32:57,308 Okay? - Okay. 824 00:32:57,309 --> 00:33:00,436 I remember my childhood very, very distinctly, 825 00:33:00,437 --> 00:33:02,479 as if it was like a Super 8 movie 826 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,732 that gets played back in my own head. 827 00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:06,734 [file reel whirring] 828 00:33:06,735 --> 00:33:09,570 [solemn music] 829 00:33:09,571 --> 00:33:16,578 ♪ ♪ 830 00:33:18,705 --> 00:33:22,500 BARBARA: I was shy, introverted. 831 00:33:23,877 --> 00:33:27,421 My father said I had an inferiority complex. 832 00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:29,715 He probably was right. 833 00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:33,260 I guess the word that comes to my mind 834 00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:35,055 is "lonely." 835 00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:40,059 My sister was 3 1/2 years older, 836 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,061 but from the time she was born, 837 00:33:42,062 --> 00:33:44,313 they knew there was something wrong. 838 00:33:44,314 --> 00:33:47,191 ♪ ♪ 839 00:33:47,192 --> 00:33:49,985 Today they would talk about it as a disability. 840 00:33:49,986 --> 00:33:52,696 And it may even be that my sister was autistic 841 00:33:52,697 --> 00:33:54,740 and we didn't know it. 842 00:33:54,741 --> 00:33:58,202 My first memory is of our going outside in the street 843 00:33:58,203 --> 00:34:02,748 and a bunch of little boys chasing us and ridiculing her, 844 00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:06,126 and we ran into the house in tears. 845 00:34:06,127 --> 00:34:10,798 Well, I loved her. She was my sister. 846 00:34:10,799 --> 00:34:12,716 But I hated her. 847 00:34:12,717 --> 00:34:19,640 ♪ ♪ 848 00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:24,019 My mother was never enraptured by show business. 849 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,230 The glamour of it frightened her. 850 00:34:26,231 --> 00:34:28,232 She was a very lonely woman. 851 00:34:28,233 --> 00:34:30,568 I don't know that she loved my father. 852 00:34:31,987 --> 00:34:35,823 My mother had no means of having a livelihood. 853 00:34:35,824 --> 00:34:38,409 And my nightmare was that my father 854 00:34:38,410 --> 00:34:40,369 was going to lose it all. 855 00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:43,163 He was a gambler by nature. 856 00:34:43,164 --> 00:34:44,915 He gambled on cards, 857 00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:47,543 and eventually he gambled on the Latin Quarter. 858 00:34:47,544 --> 00:34:50,963 And after years of success, he had nothing. 859 00:34:50,964 --> 00:34:52,131 Nothing. 860 00:34:52,132 --> 00:34:54,300 - The lights on Broadway are no longer 861 00:34:54,301 --> 00:34:56,343 the shining gay Broadway. 862 00:34:56,344 --> 00:34:58,679 BARBARA: And my father was in great despair, 863 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,556 and he attempted suicide 864 00:35:00,557 --> 00:35:03,642 from an overdose of sleeping pills. 865 00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:05,978 I was in my 20s, 866 00:35:05,979 --> 00:35:09,189 and I had to support my whole family. 867 00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,025 I had to work 868 00:35:11,026 --> 00:35:13,611 at a time when many women of my generation 869 00:35:13,612 --> 00:35:15,030 were not working. 870 00:35:16,698 --> 00:35:19,617 CONNIE: Barbara was the breadwinner in her family, 871 00:35:19,618 --> 00:35:23,370 because her father's nightclubs had tanked. 872 00:35:23,371 --> 00:35:25,623 I supported my parents, too, 873 00:35:25,624 --> 00:35:30,169 and I think that caused us, both of us, 874 00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:35,090 to feel as if we had to have our jobs. 875 00:35:35,091 --> 00:35:39,261 So both Barbara and I took on the role of a guy. 876 00:35:39,262 --> 00:35:41,889 We became men. 877 00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:43,807 - Can you hear His Majesty well? 878 00:35:43,808 --> 00:35:45,184 Is his microphone too low? 879 00:35:45,185 --> 00:35:47,478 CONNIE: And we had the responsibilities of men, 880 00:35:47,479 --> 00:35:51,065 and we conducted our careers like men. 881 00:35:51,066 --> 00:35:52,858 - In a man's life, women count 882 00:35:52,859 --> 00:35:54,860 only if they are beautiful, graceful, 883 00:35:54,861 --> 00:35:56,653 and know how to stay feminine. 884 00:35:56,654 --> 00:35:59,823 You may be equal in the eyes of the law but not in ability. 885 00:35:59,824 --> 00:36:02,409 You have never produced a Michelangelo or a Bach 886 00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:04,453 or even a great cook. 887 00:36:04,454 --> 00:36:07,581 Oh, Your Majesty, you said all these things. 888 00:36:07,582 --> 00:36:10,834 So you don't feel that women are, in that sense, equal, 889 00:36:10,835 --> 00:36:12,586 that they have the same intelligence or ability? 890 00:36:12,587 --> 00:36:13,712 - Not so far. 891 00:36:13,713 --> 00:36:15,422 Maybe you will become in the future. 892 00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:17,716 You can always have some exceptions. 893 00:36:17,717 --> 00:36:19,635 - Here and there. SHAH: Yes. 894 00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:24,431 But on the average, when have you produced a top scientist? 895 00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:26,392 - Madame Curie. 896 00:36:26,393 --> 00:36:28,018 SHAH: That's one. 897 00:36:28,019 --> 00:36:30,896 PERSON: You've been successful in getting a great many people 898 00:36:30,897 --> 00:36:32,898 to come on your shows. 899 00:36:32,899 --> 00:36:34,691 What makes them decide, 900 00:36:34,692 --> 00:36:36,693 I'm going to go on Barbara Walters' program, 901 00:36:36,694 --> 00:36:38,904 and I'm not going to go on anybody else's? 902 00:36:38,905 --> 00:36:40,948 - Well, first of all, I had heard sometimes, 903 00:36:40,949 --> 00:36:42,574 oh, she gets this or that interview 904 00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:43,826 because of her contacts. 905 00:36:43,827 --> 00:36:45,828 I wasn't born with contacts. PERSON: Mm-hmm. 906 00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:48,372 BARBARA: I would pick up the phone myself. 907 00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:51,250 I would write letters. I would call. 908 00:36:51,251 --> 00:36:52,668 I would... 909 00:36:52,669 --> 00:36:54,878 I didn't just nag. I nudged. 910 00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:59,007 VICTOR: Barbara's strategy was to prepare the whole world 911 00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:00,342 to be interviewed by her 912 00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:02,886 in terms of her social connections. 913 00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:06,473 She had a Rolodex-- millions of names. 914 00:37:06,474 --> 00:37:09,184 She nurtured those relationships. 915 00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:12,020 DAVID: Hollywood, senators, statesmen, dictators-- 916 00:37:12,021 --> 00:37:13,731 they came to her 917 00:37:13,732 --> 00:37:16,775 because she got people's attention 918 00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:19,528 in ways that the Cronkites of the world would not. 919 00:37:19,529 --> 00:37:21,947 MARTIN: Barbara had wide-ranging acquaintances 920 00:37:21,948 --> 00:37:23,323 and friendships. 921 00:37:23,324 --> 00:37:25,909 That was part of her process. 922 00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:27,745 You know, I think Barbara would be friends 923 00:37:27,746 --> 00:37:29,538 with the devil if we'd get the interview. 924 00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:31,081 - His agent said to us, "He won't do it." 925 00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:32,166 I said, "Ask him." 926 00:37:32,167 --> 00:37:33,459 He said, "I tell you, he won't do it." 927 00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:34,793 I said, "Ask him." 928 00:37:34,794 --> 00:37:36,670 VICTOR: Often, I would hear her on the phone 929 00:37:36,671 --> 00:37:38,464 with various celebrities, agents. 930 00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:40,132 She worked it. 931 00:37:40,133 --> 00:37:41,884 - Then I have my tricks, and so that-- 932 00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:43,969 DAVID LETTERMAN: What would-- [laughter] 933 00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:45,763 This is what we need to know, Barbara. 934 00:37:45,764 --> 00:37:47,639 What... 935 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,725 VICTOR: And she always said, 936 00:37:49,726 --> 00:37:51,518 no one prepares as much as she does. 937 00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,813 No one worries about the work as much as she does. 938 00:37:54,814 --> 00:37:57,733 - Now, where were your cards? - My cards were down here. 939 00:37:57,734 --> 00:37:59,902 VICTOR: When she prepared for an interview, 940 00:37:59,903 --> 00:38:01,487 the whole world stopped 941 00:38:01,488 --> 00:38:03,363 when you were in this session with her. 942 00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:04,531 Nothing could interrupt. 943 00:38:04,532 --> 00:38:06,658 - What did I do with my pen? Oh, damn it. 944 00:38:06,659 --> 00:38:08,118 You got that? Okay. 945 00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:09,703 VICTOR: And she went through hundreds of questions, 946 00:38:09,704 --> 00:38:13,207 and then she, in a moment, said, "That's enough. 947 00:38:13,208 --> 00:38:14,208 We're ready." 948 00:38:14,209 --> 00:38:16,376 - This is 20/20. 949 00:38:16,377 --> 00:38:19,296 [grand music] 950 00:38:19,297 --> 00:38:20,964 VICTOR: ABC launched 20/20 951 00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:23,759 and suggested that Barbara bring her big interviews. 952 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,345 That was really the best place for her, 953 00:38:26,346 --> 00:38:28,430 because it combined news 954 00:38:28,431 --> 00:38:30,599 and pop culture and entertainment. 955 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,893 ANNOUNCER: Tonight on 20/20, 956 00:38:32,894 --> 00:38:35,312 a Barbara Walters exclusive. 957 00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,147 - Why did you kill John Lennon? 958 00:38:37,148 --> 00:38:40,734 CONNIE: She got all of these incredible exclusives... 959 00:38:40,735 --> 00:38:42,402 BARBARA: You felt sometimes the need 960 00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:44,947 to justify your own existence. 961 00:38:44,948 --> 00:38:49,201 - Ranging from world leaders to movie stars 962 00:38:49,202 --> 00:38:51,036 to a person in the news. 963 00:38:51,037 --> 00:38:52,287 BARBARA: What do you say to people who say, 964 00:38:52,288 --> 00:38:54,915 Dr. Kevorkian, you are playing God? 965 00:38:54,916 --> 00:38:59,002 - A doctor always plays God, even when he gives you a pill. 966 00:38:59,003 --> 00:39:01,547 VICTOR: The ratings were very big with 20/20 967 00:39:01,548 --> 00:39:03,549 because it was the only show like that. 968 00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:06,426 It was really competing with all the big dramas. 969 00:39:06,427 --> 00:39:07,803 On any given night, 970 00:39:07,804 --> 00:39:10,389 10 million, 12 million people would watch. 971 00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:12,266 CYNTHIA: She knew she was in a business. 972 00:39:12,267 --> 00:39:14,935 She wanted to know, as soon as they came out, 973 00:39:14,936 --> 00:39:17,312 what the ratings were, how many people had watched, 974 00:39:17,313 --> 00:39:22,067 because she knew that that kept her at the top. 975 00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:24,653 BARBARA: This adorable baby is two years old. 976 00:39:24,654 --> 00:39:26,321 He has AIDS. 977 00:39:26,322 --> 00:39:28,073 So great is the fear these days 978 00:39:28,074 --> 00:39:30,659 that many people will be concerned 979 00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:33,662 that I am even holding this baby. 980 00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:36,081 CYNTHIA: She tackled some tough issues 981 00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:39,293 in a way that the public never thought about before. 982 00:39:39,294 --> 00:39:41,004 - Does he hit you? 983 00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:44,923 - He shakes. He pushes. 984 00:39:44,924 --> 00:39:46,842 He, um... 985 00:39:46,843 --> 00:39:48,218 he swings. 986 00:39:48,219 --> 00:39:50,429 REPORTER: Heavyweight champion Mike Tyson 987 00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:52,848 reportedly threw chairs through the windows 988 00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:55,058 of his $4.5 million mansion. 989 00:39:55,059 --> 00:39:57,644 Apparently, it was this nationwide interview 990 00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:01,231 with Tyson and his wife that triggered the champ's anger. 991 00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:04,401 - You're sitting here and listening to this. 992 00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:07,487 How do you feel? What do you have to say? 993 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:10,490 - This is a situation in which I'm dealing with my illness. 994 00:40:10,491 --> 00:40:13,660 And, like, basically, like I said, this is my wife, 995 00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:16,038 and we're dealing with it. 996 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:17,331 - I think many people went 997 00:40:17,332 --> 00:40:19,791 into every Barbara Walters interview saying, 998 00:40:19,792 --> 00:40:21,460 I'm not going to cry, I'm not going to cry, 999 00:40:21,461 --> 00:40:23,587 I'm not going to cry, and then, bam, 1000 00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:25,672 you end up doing the thing 1001 00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:28,133 that you thought you most didn't want to do. 1002 00:40:28,134 --> 00:40:30,470 - Why the tears now, Oprah? OPRAH: Well... 1003 00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:36,683 She had an intention and... 1004 00:40:36,684 --> 00:40:38,769 a reason for the interview. 1005 00:40:38,770 --> 00:40:42,356 She was looking to find a vulnerability 1006 00:40:42,357 --> 00:40:44,650 that you had not offered to the rest of the world. 1007 00:40:44,651 --> 00:40:46,109 At the time you're being sexually abused, you don't know 1008 00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:47,527 that's what's happening. - That's what I was gonna say. 1009 00:40:47,528 --> 00:40:49,071 I mean when you're a kid-- - Oh, you don't say, 1010 00:40:49,072 --> 00:40:50,280 "I'm sexually abused." 1011 00:40:50,281 --> 00:40:51,782 This is just something that's happening. 1012 00:40:51,783 --> 00:40:55,327 That was the first time that I spoke openly 1013 00:40:55,328 --> 00:40:57,663 about being sexually abused. 1014 00:40:57,664 --> 00:41:00,374 This was 1988 when that interview was done. 1015 00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:03,001 Nobody was talking about abuse. 1016 00:41:03,002 --> 00:41:04,586 I was prepared. 1017 00:41:04,587 --> 00:41:07,798 I wasn't prepared to go into the ugly cry, 1018 00:41:07,799 --> 00:41:10,926 but I knew that if anybody was going to have the nerve 1019 00:41:10,927 --> 00:41:13,053 to go there, it was going to be Barbara Walters. 1020 00:41:13,054 --> 00:41:14,346 - You were not raped, were you? 1021 00:41:14,347 --> 00:41:15,764 - Mm-hmm, I was. - You were actually raped. 1022 00:41:15,765 --> 00:41:17,057 - I was raped. - Did you know? 1023 00:41:17,058 --> 00:41:18,141 - No, I had no idea. 1024 00:41:18,142 --> 00:41:19,226 - What did you think was happening? 1025 00:41:19,227 --> 00:41:20,352 - I'll tell you. 1026 00:41:20,353 --> 00:41:23,313 I remember being at a relative's house, 1027 00:41:23,314 --> 00:41:26,775 and I'd been left with... 1028 00:41:26,776 --> 00:41:29,861 a 19-year-old cousin. 1029 00:41:29,862 --> 00:41:31,531 And... 1030 00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:35,659 He raped me. 1031 00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:38,203 He told me that if I ever told, 1032 00:41:38,204 --> 00:41:42,332 we would both get in trouble, so I never did. 1033 00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:44,209 - You make me want to cry. - Yeah. 1034 00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:47,629 For me, it was the... 1035 00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:49,965 cracking the shell... 1036 00:41:49,966 --> 00:41:52,134 of sexual abuse 1037 00:41:52,135 --> 00:41:56,179 and feeling comfortable enough with her 1038 00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:59,558 to share that story on national television 1039 00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:03,019 with, at the time, 20 million people. 1040 00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:05,689 It made it easier to talk about it on my own show 1041 00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:08,150 after sharing that with Barbara Walters. 1042 00:42:08,151 --> 00:42:10,027 - Thank you, my dear. - Thank you. 1043 00:42:10,028 --> 00:42:11,403 MARTIN: Barbara felt that people 1044 00:42:11,404 --> 00:42:12,696 looked down on her a bit 1045 00:42:12,697 --> 00:42:14,740 because she dealt with celebrities. 1046 00:42:14,741 --> 00:42:16,616 Well, those celebrity interviews 1047 00:42:16,617 --> 00:42:20,162 brought in terrific ratings and a lot of money for ABC. 1048 00:42:20,163 --> 00:42:24,833 - But it really made a lot of more, let's say, 1049 00:42:24,834 --> 00:42:26,710 big-J journalists angry. 1050 00:42:26,711 --> 00:42:28,211 - And she never believed 1051 00:42:28,212 --> 00:42:33,216 that she was accepted in this "fraternity," 1052 00:42:33,217 --> 00:42:34,926 as a "journalist." 1053 00:42:34,927 --> 00:42:37,721 - We're going to delete Shell from the second segment. 1054 00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:39,055 We'll talk you through this. 1055 00:42:39,056 --> 00:42:41,516 VICTOR: There were the anchors, male anchors. 1056 00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:43,310 Peter Jennings was the lead anchor 1057 00:42:43,311 --> 00:42:45,187 for the evening news for many of those years. 1058 00:42:45,188 --> 00:42:46,313 - Good evening. 1059 00:42:46,314 --> 00:42:47,856 It was 5:42 in the morning outside... 1060 00:42:47,857 --> 00:42:49,816 BARBARA: Peter Jennings always put me down. 1061 00:42:49,817 --> 00:42:52,652 I had a very difficult time working with Peter... 1062 00:42:52,653 --> 00:42:54,654 very difficult. 1063 00:42:54,655 --> 00:42:56,656 I don't think that's why he left, but it played a part. 1064 00:42:56,657 --> 00:42:58,784 - Forgive me for interrupting. What about his relationship-- 1065 00:42:58,785 --> 00:42:59,951 BARBARA: He would interrupt 1066 00:42:59,952 --> 00:43:01,787 without any regard for what I said, 1067 00:43:01,788 --> 00:43:03,663 and he never took me serious. 1068 00:43:03,664 --> 00:43:05,832 Once in a while, he said to me, "That was a good report." 1069 00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:07,459 Like, oh, what a surprise. 1070 00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:09,377 I was used to working with bullies. 1071 00:43:09,378 --> 00:43:11,129 When I stop to think of it as we talk, 1072 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:12,964 he was the third bully that I've worked with-- 1073 00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:15,634 Frank McGee, Harry Reasoner, Peter Jennings. 1074 00:43:15,635 --> 00:43:19,429 It's the way it was thought of then. 1075 00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:22,057 The so-called "hard news"... 1076 00:43:22,058 --> 00:43:23,850 a woman couldn't do it. 1077 00:43:23,851 --> 00:43:27,437 The audience wouldn't accept her voice. 1078 00:43:27,438 --> 00:43:30,148 She couldn't ask the tough questions. 1079 00:43:30,149 --> 00:43:34,111 She couldn't go into the war zones. 1080 00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,654 REPORTER: Muammar Gaddafi is 1081 00:43:35,655 --> 00:43:38,240 one of the most frightening names in the world today-- 1082 00:43:38,241 --> 00:43:40,742 the mysterious strongman of Libya. 1083 00:43:40,743 --> 00:43:42,702 BARBARA: He's accused of complicity 1084 00:43:42,703 --> 00:43:44,329 in terrorist attacks, 1085 00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:48,166 including this bombing of a Berlin discotheque in 1986. 1086 00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:51,002 An American serviceman was killed. 1087 00:43:51,003 --> 00:43:52,295 In retaliation, 1088 00:43:52,296 --> 00:43:55,257 President Reagan ordered Libya bombed. 1089 00:43:55,258 --> 00:43:57,509 Gaddafi's own home was severely damaged. 1090 00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:59,678 PERSON: Okay. 1091 00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:00,887 BARBARA: Here I come. 1092 00:44:00,888 --> 00:44:02,514 PERSON: Straight through to the corner room 1093 00:44:02,515 --> 00:44:03,682 on your left, Barbara. 1094 00:44:03,683 --> 00:44:05,100 Stand there, look around, walk out. 1095 00:44:05,101 --> 00:44:07,853 DAVID: She was walking with some trepidation 1096 00:44:07,854 --> 00:44:10,355 through the ruins of his headquarters 1097 00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:13,608 in a Chanel suit that was Barbie pink. 1098 00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:15,402 I thought she was embarrassing herself-- 1099 00:44:15,403 --> 00:44:17,946 too New York, too hot for the desert. 1100 00:44:17,947 --> 00:44:19,364 Like, what are you doing? 1101 00:44:19,365 --> 00:44:20,949 - Here we go. 1102 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:23,577 DAVID: And then the producer said, 1103 00:44:23,578 --> 00:44:26,163 no, she knows exactly what she's doing. 1104 00:44:26,164 --> 00:44:28,415 BARBARA: General Gaddafi, I'm happy to meet you. 1105 00:44:28,416 --> 00:44:30,250 DAVID: That was her battle armor. 1106 00:44:30,251 --> 00:44:32,127 That was saying, "I'm sophisticated, 1107 00:44:32,128 --> 00:44:33,628 "I'm culturally important, 1108 00:44:33,629 --> 00:44:35,422 "and when the cameras go on, 1109 00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:38,008 I'm in charge in this tent, not you." 1110 00:44:38,009 --> 00:44:39,509 - You let me know when you are ready, Martin. 1111 00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:42,304 I am ready. Roll tape. Let's do speed. 1112 00:44:42,305 --> 00:44:47,225 So I will ask questions-- political and about your life. 1113 00:44:47,226 --> 00:44:49,519 VICTOR: She was proving 1114 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,606 that she should be respected 1115 00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:54,357 like one of the guys, 1116 00:44:54,358 --> 00:44:58,528 and I think that turned her into a real fierce warrior. 1117 00:44:58,529 --> 00:45:02,199 - In our country, we read that you are unstable. 1118 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,826 We read that you are mad. - [chuckles] 1119 00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:07,663 BARBARA: You know that those things have been printed. 1120 00:45:08,789 --> 00:45:10,332 What do you say to that? 1121 00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:11,791 MARTIN: She asked tough questions, 1122 00:45:11,792 --> 00:45:13,627 but she would be demure about it. 1123 00:45:13,628 --> 00:45:15,545 - I would like to be fair with you. 1124 00:45:15,546 --> 00:45:17,672 This is a recent report that says 1125 00:45:17,673 --> 00:45:21,426 that you are using surrogates to commit terrorist acts. 1126 00:45:21,427 --> 00:45:23,178 Would you like to see it? GADDAFI: This is not true. 1127 00:45:23,179 --> 00:45:24,471 This is one of the lies. 1128 00:45:24,472 --> 00:45:26,181 - Well, we're trying to clear up the lies. 1129 00:45:26,182 --> 00:45:28,391 MARTIN: And she was very adept 1130 00:45:28,392 --> 00:45:31,436 at folding the personal into the interview itself. 1131 00:45:31,437 --> 00:45:33,939 Can you tell us about your childhood, 1132 00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:38,443 what you hoped to be when you were a little boy? 1133 00:45:38,444 --> 00:45:40,028 - [speaking native language] 1134 00:45:40,029 --> 00:45:42,572 - It is so fascinating that she asked 1135 00:45:42,573 --> 00:45:45,241 these incredibly powerful men 1136 00:45:45,242 --> 00:45:48,036 the simplest of questions, 1137 00:45:48,037 --> 00:45:50,872 pressing Gaddafi about his childhood dreams. 1138 00:45:50,873 --> 00:45:52,832 You know, those are the kinds of questions 1139 00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:55,418 that were so criticized by male journalists-- 1140 00:45:55,419 --> 00:45:57,170 ugh, frivolous. 1141 00:45:57,171 --> 00:46:00,674 I would respectfully disagree. 1142 00:46:00,675 --> 00:46:04,135 CONNIE: That's a great way to get to an interviewee. 1143 00:46:04,136 --> 00:46:06,721 Make them human, because they are. 1144 00:46:06,722 --> 00:46:10,433 - Can I take a picture to give to you of the two of you? 1145 00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:11,685 Where's my camera? 1146 00:46:11,686 --> 00:46:13,436 Okay, look at me. Right. 1147 00:46:13,437 --> 00:46:15,772 No, no, closer to your wife. 1148 00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,524 There we go. Great. 1149 00:46:17,525 --> 00:46:19,859 [camera shutter clicks, film whirs] 1150 00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:21,779 CREW MEMBER: Stand by, please. 1151 00:46:24,073 --> 00:46:25,991 - So you think you're going to get married again? 1152 00:46:25,992 --> 00:46:26,992 DIANA: I'd love to. 1153 00:46:26,993 --> 00:46:28,493 - Really? DIANA: Yes. 1154 00:46:28,494 --> 00:46:30,787 I don't know where he's at yet, but I would. 1155 00:46:30,788 --> 00:46:32,289 - What would you look for? 1156 00:46:32,290 --> 00:46:34,582 - Oh, someone that would understand my kind of life. 1157 00:46:34,583 --> 00:46:37,502 You know, it's very difficult for a woman in show business, 1158 00:46:37,503 --> 00:46:38,837 I think. 1159 00:46:38,838 --> 00:46:40,630 BARBARA: Is that what broke the marriage up? 1160 00:46:40,631 --> 00:46:42,257 - Um, I think, yes. 1161 00:46:42,258 --> 00:46:44,509 - I know you don't want to talk about guys in your life, 1162 00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:45,677 and I won't push it. 1163 00:46:45,678 --> 00:46:47,846 But you are young. You are beautiful. 1164 00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:50,348 You are successful. You are rich. 1165 00:46:50,349 --> 00:46:52,685 How are you going to find anybody? 1166 00:46:53,894 --> 00:46:57,272 - Uh, anybody like a guy to date? 1167 00:46:57,273 --> 00:46:59,107 BARBARA: Yeah. 1168 00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:01,735 When I was in my 20s and 30s, 1169 00:47:01,736 --> 00:47:03,403 when I should have been dating, 1170 00:47:03,404 --> 00:47:04,904 I was working day and night. 1171 00:47:04,905 --> 00:47:06,740 I didn't have those kinds of years. 1172 00:47:06,741 --> 00:47:09,951 I didn't have those years until I was in my 30s and 40s. 1173 00:47:09,952 --> 00:47:11,911 Mine was a very delayed... 1174 00:47:11,912 --> 00:47:14,497 [laughs] Romantic period. 1175 00:47:14,498 --> 00:47:17,292 - Barbara had her fill... 1176 00:47:17,293 --> 00:47:19,502 [chuckling] Of romance. 1177 00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:20,879 - [chuckles] 1178 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,714 CINDY: She thought a lot of guys were very sexy. 1179 00:47:22,715 --> 00:47:26,051 She was interested in the possibility... 1180 00:47:26,052 --> 00:47:27,510 - [laughs] 1181 00:47:27,511 --> 00:47:29,304 - [laughing] Of sex. 1182 00:47:29,305 --> 00:47:32,307 She liked it. She liked men. 1183 00:47:32,308 --> 00:47:35,518 - But are you afraid of showing emotions? 1184 00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:37,145 CLINT: I don't think so. 1185 00:47:37,146 --> 00:47:39,939 There's certain things I just don't enjoy sharing 1186 00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:41,232 with everybody else. 1187 00:47:41,233 --> 00:47:42,609 What's there to know? 1188 00:47:42,610 --> 00:47:44,569 - You would drive me nuts, and I would drive you crazy, 1189 00:47:44,570 --> 00:47:46,613 because I would be saying, but, you know, but didn't you 1190 00:47:46,614 --> 00:47:48,531 or haven't you or have you? 1191 00:47:48,532 --> 00:47:50,533 - Well, we could try it and see if it worked out. 1192 00:47:50,534 --> 00:47:52,577 [laughter] 1193 00:47:52,578 --> 00:47:54,371 We'll start with this interview. 1194 00:47:54,372 --> 00:47:56,164 If this is okay, we get somewhere, 1195 00:47:56,165 --> 00:47:57,958 maybe we'll do another interview. 1196 00:48:00,503 --> 00:48:03,506 I think we'll stop and reload. [laughter] 1197 00:48:05,633 --> 00:48:08,301 LORI: She was never cynical about love, 1198 00:48:08,302 --> 00:48:11,721 and she definitely was 1199 00:48:11,722 --> 00:48:14,557 a romantic kind of person, 1200 00:48:14,558 --> 00:48:17,769 but romance just never worked 1201 00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:20,397 in her life for long. 1202 00:48:20,398 --> 00:48:22,816 CINDY: She loved being important to a man. 1203 00:48:22,817 --> 00:48:26,820 She didn't have patience for somebody who was stupid. 1204 00:48:26,821 --> 00:48:29,572 She didn't love you if you were nobody either. 1205 00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:31,241 You had to be somebody. 1206 00:48:31,242 --> 00:48:34,411 PERSON: Alan Greenspan--attraction? 1207 00:48:34,412 --> 00:48:36,413 BARBARA: Because he likes strong women, 1208 00:48:36,414 --> 00:48:39,124 and we both love politics. 1209 00:48:39,125 --> 00:48:41,376 - What kind of man appeals to you? 1210 00:48:41,377 --> 00:48:43,378 - What was beginning to depress me last year is 1211 00:48:43,379 --> 00:48:45,588 that I found that I was only getting to like dictators. 1212 00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:47,173 [laughter] 1213 00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:49,384 There is a certain charm about a dictator. 1214 00:48:49,385 --> 00:48:51,594 I think that there are strong women 1215 00:48:51,595 --> 00:48:54,806 who are most comfortable with a man who is weaker. 1216 00:48:54,807 --> 00:48:56,683 I've never felt that. 1217 00:48:56,684 --> 00:48:58,601 - She was obsessed with three things. 1218 00:48:58,602 --> 00:49:01,896 She was obsessed with money, fame, and power. 1219 00:49:01,897 --> 00:49:03,523 And when I would have conversations with her 1220 00:49:03,524 --> 00:49:04,607 about her father-- 1221 00:49:04,608 --> 00:49:06,443 Her father was a scoundrel. 1222 00:49:06,444 --> 00:49:08,903 He was irresponsible with money. 1223 00:49:08,904 --> 00:49:12,115 He was not a perfect family man. 1224 00:49:12,116 --> 00:49:15,201 A "scoundrel" is actually the right word. 1225 00:49:15,202 --> 00:49:18,455 And I think she was both horrified by that 1226 00:49:18,456 --> 00:49:20,999 and attracted to that. 1227 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,210 One of the things I had the most trouble dealing with 1228 00:49:24,211 --> 00:49:27,213 as her editor was her relationship with Roy Cohn. 1229 00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:29,424 REPORTER: Roy Cohn may be one of the most feared 1230 00:49:29,425 --> 00:49:30,758 attorneys in New York. 1231 00:49:30,759 --> 00:49:32,886 Super builder Donald Trump has said, 1232 00:49:32,887 --> 00:49:36,347 "If you need somebody to get vicious, hire Roy Cohn." 1233 00:49:36,348 --> 00:49:40,018 DAVID: Roy Cohn was McCarthy's fixer. 1234 00:49:40,019 --> 00:49:44,731 He was universally disliked. 1235 00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:48,276 PETER: I said to her, I would put Cohn in my top 10 1236 00:49:48,277 --> 00:49:51,279 of horrible people of the 20th century. 1237 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,822 But she loved him. 1238 00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:54,491 CINDY: Roy Cohn was famous, 1239 00:49:54,492 --> 00:49:57,076 so it was worthwhile for Barbara. 1240 00:49:57,077 --> 00:50:00,788 Barbara was famous, so it was worthwhile for Roy. 1241 00:50:00,789 --> 00:50:03,458 They were two people who loved PR. 1242 00:50:03,459 --> 00:50:05,460 - They talked about getting married. 1243 00:50:05,461 --> 00:50:08,421 I have no idea how serious it was, you know. 1244 00:50:08,422 --> 00:50:13,051 I would say to her, but, you know, he was gay. 1245 00:50:13,052 --> 00:50:15,094 - Did they really do anything together? 1246 00:50:15,095 --> 00:50:17,264 I don't think so. 1247 00:50:18,766 --> 00:50:20,225 BARBARA: Roy was very well known 1248 00:50:20,226 --> 00:50:21,601 and had a great deal of power. 1249 00:50:21,602 --> 00:50:23,436 He would take me to the Stork Club, 1250 00:50:23,437 --> 00:50:25,605 to some of the great restaurants. 1251 00:50:25,606 --> 00:50:27,315 He had fascinating friends. 1252 00:50:27,316 --> 00:50:31,027 PETER: She did not have the strongest moral compass. 1253 00:50:31,028 --> 00:50:33,446 A lot of the relationships she developed 1254 00:50:33,447 --> 00:50:35,114 were career moves, 1255 00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:39,160 and she was a pretty transactional person. 1256 00:50:39,161 --> 00:50:41,454 BARBARA: When my father lost everything, 1257 00:50:41,455 --> 00:50:45,500 he also had not paid his taxes in New York. 1258 00:50:45,501 --> 00:50:49,295 And Roy Cohn said, "Don't worry about it. 1259 00:50:49,296 --> 00:50:51,005 I will take care of it." 1260 00:50:51,006 --> 00:50:53,049 - What we want to do is just chip away at them 1261 00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:54,175 little by little. 1262 00:50:54,176 --> 00:50:56,177 BARBARA: I don't know how he did it. 1263 00:50:56,178 --> 00:50:59,305 I don't know what judges he talked to. 1264 00:50:59,306 --> 00:51:01,182 I forgot about ethics. 1265 00:51:01,183 --> 00:51:04,018 And I have been severely criticized by my friends, 1266 00:51:04,019 --> 00:51:08,565 and I can understand, because Roy did some terrible things. 1267 00:51:08,566 --> 00:51:11,567 But this was my father, 1268 00:51:11,568 --> 00:51:13,778 and he saved him. 1269 00:51:13,779 --> 00:51:15,989 PETER: She didn't see things 1270 00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:18,866 in that kind of moral light. 1271 00:51:18,867 --> 00:51:21,619 That stuff was always in the shadows. 1272 00:51:21,620 --> 00:51:25,373 She could forgive anyone who was really good to her, 1273 00:51:25,374 --> 00:51:28,960 no matter what they did in the other parts of their lives. 1274 00:51:28,961 --> 00:51:30,962 - The man I was going out with-- 1275 00:51:30,963 --> 00:51:32,130 is my microphone off? 1276 00:51:32,131 --> 00:51:33,715 Is the sound off? I don't want to hear this. 1277 00:51:33,716 --> 00:51:35,174 Is the sound off? 1278 00:51:35,175 --> 00:51:36,551 The man whom I was going out with last night 1279 00:51:36,552 --> 00:51:39,262 is quite well known in the community. 1280 00:51:39,263 --> 00:51:40,263 And... 1281 00:51:40,264 --> 00:51:41,556 PERSON: John Warner. 1282 00:51:41,557 --> 00:51:43,641 BARBARA: John Warner was in and out of my life 1283 00:51:43,642 --> 00:51:46,561 since the early 1970s. 1284 00:51:46,562 --> 00:51:47,770 We went out a great deal, 1285 00:51:47,771 --> 00:51:49,272 then he married Elizabeth Taylor. 1286 00:51:49,273 --> 00:51:50,732 CREW MEMBER: Stand by, please. 1287 00:51:50,733 --> 00:51:52,400 BARBARA: And I did an interview with both of them. 1288 00:51:52,401 --> 00:51:54,360 It was bizarre. 1289 00:51:54,361 --> 00:51:56,613 DAVID: Her relationship with John Warner, 1290 00:51:56,614 --> 00:51:58,865 one of the great power brokers of Washington-- 1291 00:51:58,866 --> 00:52:01,617 did that help her land political interviews? 1292 00:52:01,618 --> 00:52:02,952 Probably. 1293 00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:05,038 I think she cared for him a great deal, too, 1294 00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:06,497 but it didn't hurt. 1295 00:52:06,498 --> 00:52:08,416 You can never know 1296 00:52:08,417 --> 00:52:11,169 about what's transactional and what's not, 1297 00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:12,545 but you can wonder. 1298 00:52:12,546 --> 00:52:14,797 PERSON: Senator Ed Brooke. BARBARA: Yeah. 1299 00:52:14,798 --> 00:52:16,382 PERSON: Massachusetts. BARBARA: Yeah. 1300 00:52:16,383 --> 00:52:17,925 PERSON: Married. BARBARA: Yeah. 1301 00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:19,635 PERSON: African American. BARBARA: Yeah. 1302 00:52:19,636 --> 00:52:21,596 - I just think there should be no ambiguity. 1303 00:52:21,597 --> 00:52:23,139 PERSON: Very distinguished. BARBARA: Yeah. 1304 00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:24,849 Anything we left out? 1305 00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:27,602 - We all said, "Barbara, what are you doing? 1306 00:52:27,603 --> 00:52:30,396 This is not quite right." 1307 00:52:30,397 --> 00:52:31,856 And she says, "I know, 1308 00:52:31,857 --> 00:52:34,109 but he's so exciting, and he's so great." 1309 00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:39,739 - Much easier. 1310 00:52:39,740 --> 00:52:41,449 - I don't think you could see it from where you're sitting-- 1311 00:52:41,450 --> 00:52:43,534 It was a very different time. 1312 00:52:43,535 --> 00:52:46,454 Had this become public, it would have been something 1313 00:52:46,455 --> 00:52:50,124 that a lot of people would not have understood. 1314 00:52:50,125 --> 00:52:51,834 It had to be kept secret. 1315 00:52:51,835 --> 00:52:53,419 Silent? Okay. 1316 00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:55,963 That's very hard for me. 1317 00:52:55,964 --> 00:52:57,590 He had a bad marriage. 1318 00:52:57,591 --> 00:53:00,426 But I felt that when it began to become public, 1319 00:53:00,427 --> 00:53:02,679 it hurt his chances for re-election. 1320 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,972 And he was a very good senator. 1321 00:53:04,973 --> 00:53:06,433 Okay? 1322 00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:12,480 You said, "I know that this marriage will always last. 1323 00:53:12,481 --> 00:53:14,649 This man gives me everything I need." 1324 00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:16,275 How do you know? 1325 00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:19,112 - Well, I need freedom. The man gives me freedom. 1326 00:53:19,113 --> 00:53:20,780 - So why get married? 1327 00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,281 DOLLY: Well, why not? 1328 00:53:22,282 --> 00:53:25,284 BARBARA: I was single more than I was married-- 1329 00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:27,328 0 for 3. 1330 00:53:27,329 --> 00:53:30,123 I think I always felt trapped. 1331 00:53:30,124 --> 00:53:33,042 I didn't have a very good example of marriage 1332 00:53:33,043 --> 00:53:35,086 from my mother and father. 1333 00:53:35,087 --> 00:53:37,880 And as soon as I got in it, 1334 00:53:37,881 --> 00:53:40,425 I wanted to get out of it. 1335 00:53:40,426 --> 00:53:42,468 PERSON: You are married? BARBARA: I am. 1336 00:53:42,469 --> 00:53:43,886 PERSON: Your husband, Merv Adelson, 1337 00:53:43,887 --> 00:53:45,680 is one of the true powers of television 1338 00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:47,765 and the whole show-business industry. 1339 00:53:47,766 --> 00:53:49,225 You're in New York. He's here. 1340 00:53:49,226 --> 00:53:52,311 - But he comes there a lot. PERSON: But here's a scenario. 1341 00:53:52,312 --> 00:53:54,147 - And I come here a little. - Oh. 1342 00:53:54,148 --> 00:53:56,607 - Well, it's the price you pay to be with Barbara, but... 1343 00:53:56,608 --> 00:53:59,610 - [laughs] - He's not feeling well. 1344 00:53:59,611 --> 00:54:01,654 His spirits are down. 1345 00:54:01,655 --> 00:54:03,156 You're in New York. 1346 00:54:03,157 --> 00:54:05,450 You got three hot interviews you're doing for 20/20. 1347 00:54:05,451 --> 00:54:07,285 You have to be on Good Morning America. 1348 00:54:07,286 --> 00:54:09,287 The president of some country that's suddenly in the news 1349 00:54:09,288 --> 00:54:10,747 will talk only to you. 1350 00:54:10,748 --> 00:54:12,373 You got to get on a plane and go over there, 1351 00:54:12,374 --> 00:54:13,666 and he's here, and he's saying, 1352 00:54:13,667 --> 00:54:15,501 "Honey, I don't feel real good." 1353 00:54:15,502 --> 00:54:17,086 What happens to you then? 1354 00:54:17,087 --> 00:54:19,047 BARBARA: I feel as guilty as can be. 1355 00:54:20,591 --> 00:54:23,926 - With Merv, I mean, she was living in two places 1356 00:54:23,927 --> 00:54:25,303 LA and New York. 1357 00:54:25,304 --> 00:54:28,139 And the work always took over. 1358 00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:31,142 And if it didn't fulfill her completely, 1359 00:54:31,143 --> 00:54:32,936 it wasn't worth her time. 1360 00:54:37,357 --> 00:54:40,943 - One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. 1361 00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:43,571 Okay? - Speeding, and any time. 1362 00:54:43,572 --> 00:54:46,073 BARBARA: I talk to you as a working mother 1363 00:54:46,074 --> 00:54:48,993 who was away a lot, as you were, I guess. 1364 00:54:48,994 --> 00:54:51,370 - Yes. - Do you feel guilty? 1365 00:54:51,371 --> 00:54:53,247 - Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 1366 00:54:53,248 --> 00:54:55,208 You know, this was my lifelong dream. 1367 00:54:55,209 --> 00:54:56,959 I wanted to be in movies 1368 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,170 and do the things that I've gotten to do. 1369 00:54:59,171 --> 00:55:01,839 A lot of people paid the price for it, 1370 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,967 but nobody more than my kid. 1371 00:55:04,968 --> 00:55:06,344 When they're looking around, 1372 00:55:06,345 --> 00:55:08,304 waiting for you to show up on their birthday 1373 00:55:08,305 --> 00:55:10,181 and you don't come and you said you would-- 1374 00:55:10,182 --> 00:55:11,974 you promised, you swore... - Yeah. 1375 00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:13,935 [soft music] 1376 00:55:13,936 --> 00:55:16,020 I didn't realize how tough it was 1377 00:55:16,021 --> 00:55:19,565 because she had a mother who was a celebrity. 1378 00:55:19,566 --> 00:55:22,360 We struggled through schools. 1379 00:55:22,361 --> 00:55:24,820 And then, finally, at one point, 1380 00:55:24,821 --> 00:55:27,615 when she was 16, I guess, 1381 00:55:27,616 --> 00:55:29,034 she ran away. 1382 00:55:31,245 --> 00:55:33,622 And, finally, when I found out... 1383 00:55:35,832 --> 00:55:38,376 Where she was... 1384 00:55:38,377 --> 00:55:40,586 I had someone pick her up... 1385 00:55:40,587 --> 00:55:43,381 and take her to an emotional-growth school, 1386 00:55:43,382 --> 00:55:44,799 which is what it was called. 1387 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,009 She was there for three years. 1388 00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:50,012 OPRAH: She had a charged, complex relationship 1389 00:55:50,013 --> 00:55:51,430 with her daughter. 1390 00:55:51,431 --> 00:55:53,891 And, you know, I can see why. 1391 00:55:53,892 --> 00:55:58,896 It's one of the reasons why I never had children. 1392 00:55:58,897 --> 00:56:01,274 I remember her telling me once that there's nothing 1393 00:56:01,275 --> 00:56:03,985 more fulfilling than having children, 1394 00:56:03,986 --> 00:56:06,070 and you should really think about it. 1395 00:56:06,071 --> 00:56:09,323 And I was like, okay, but I'm looking at you, 1396 00:56:09,324 --> 00:56:11,784 so, no. 1397 00:56:11,785 --> 00:56:15,329 CYNTHIA: It's important to say Jackie had a father, 1398 00:56:15,330 --> 00:56:18,457 and Jackie had a governess. 1399 00:56:18,458 --> 00:56:22,211 So it wasn't that Jackie was left alone in a playpen. 1400 00:56:22,212 --> 00:56:24,630 Barbara articulated many times 1401 00:56:24,631 --> 00:56:27,049 that she had made mistakes as a mother, 1402 00:56:27,050 --> 00:56:31,470 that she had made choices for herself, for her work. 1403 00:56:31,471 --> 00:56:33,639 PERSON: She'd been running across the country, 1404 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,059 hitchhiking with guys you didn't know. 1405 00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:38,436 Drugs? 1406 00:56:38,437 --> 00:56:41,105 - Almost any pill she could swallow. 1407 00:56:41,106 --> 00:56:43,899 Not cocaine and not heroin. 1408 00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:46,027 Thank heaven. 1409 00:56:46,028 --> 00:56:47,695 LORI: It was a different time. 1410 00:56:47,696 --> 00:56:49,572 People wouldn't understand if you said, 1411 00:56:49,573 --> 00:56:52,325 something was going on with my child, I can't be there. 1412 00:56:52,326 --> 00:56:55,119 And Barbara needed to do what she needed to do 1413 00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,496 to become Barbara Walters. 1414 00:56:57,497 --> 00:56:59,957 OPRAH: You are a pioneer in your field, 1415 00:56:59,958 --> 00:57:03,294 and you are trying to break the mold 1416 00:57:03,295 --> 00:57:07,006 for yourself and for women who are going to follow you. 1417 00:57:07,007 --> 00:57:10,760 Then something's going to have to give for that. 1418 00:57:10,761 --> 00:57:14,305 And that is why I did not have children. 1419 00:57:14,306 --> 00:57:17,016 I knew I could not do both well. 1420 00:57:17,017 --> 00:57:20,227 Both are sacrifices-- sacrifice to do the work, 1421 00:57:20,228 --> 00:57:22,521 and there's also a sacrifice to be the mother 1422 00:57:22,522 --> 00:57:25,191 and to say, no, let somebody else have that. 1423 00:57:25,192 --> 00:57:29,153 And at no time have I ever heard a story, read a story-- 1424 00:57:29,154 --> 00:57:30,988 and based on what I know of Barbara Walters, 1425 00:57:30,989 --> 00:57:33,949 at no time has Barbara Walters ever said, 1426 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:36,952 "No, let someone else take that story." 1427 00:57:36,953 --> 00:57:38,704 [chuckles] No. 1428 00:57:38,705 --> 00:57:40,373 - Are you a competitive person? 1429 00:57:40,374 --> 00:57:42,124 - Yes, I think so. - Is it important to you 1430 00:57:42,125 --> 00:57:44,335 to be, say, number one in what you do? 1431 00:57:44,336 --> 00:57:46,504 - If somebody gets the interview before me 1432 00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,422 and I didn't try, I'll be mad at myself. 1433 00:57:48,423 --> 00:57:49,924 I'll think, why didn't I? 1434 00:57:49,925 --> 00:57:52,635 Why didn't I make that one more phone call? 1435 00:57:52,636 --> 00:57:55,346 ANNOUNCER: From ABC News in New York, 1436 00:57:55,347 --> 00:57:57,723 this is Primetime. 1437 00:57:57,724 --> 00:57:59,141 - Well, good evening, 1438 00:57:59,142 --> 00:58:01,268 and welcome to the first Primetime Live 1439 00:58:01,269 --> 00:58:03,562 REPORTER: Diane Sawyer is now leaving 60 Minutes 1440 00:58:03,563 --> 00:58:05,189 and the CBS network 1441 00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:07,566 for a new deal with ABC that will team her 1442 00:58:07,567 --> 00:58:09,860 with Sam Donaldson in prime time. 1443 00:58:09,861 --> 00:58:11,987 VICTOR: Barbara did not know why Diane was hired 1444 00:58:11,988 --> 00:58:16,200 to start a new news magazine within our home of ABC 1445 00:58:16,201 --> 00:58:18,035 to compete with 20/20. 1446 00:58:18,036 --> 00:58:19,995 There was a lot of talk about that being 1447 00:58:19,996 --> 00:58:23,749 a different 20/20, a better 20/20, 1448 00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:26,711 a more live 20/20, more energetic 20/20. 1449 00:58:26,712 --> 00:58:29,046 Barbara was unhappy. 1450 00:58:29,047 --> 00:58:32,383 MARTIN: Barbara saw herself as someone who had helped Roone 1451 00:58:32,384 --> 00:58:34,802 elevate ABC News to a pinnacle. 1452 00:58:34,803 --> 00:58:37,596 And that had her feeling betrayed 1453 00:58:37,597 --> 00:58:40,057 by the Diane arrival. 1454 00:58:40,058 --> 00:58:43,227 KATIE: In the '90s, news magazines were all the rage. 1455 00:58:43,228 --> 00:58:46,856 They were popping up like crazy. 1456 00:58:46,857 --> 00:58:49,859 - Move out of my way! Excuse me! 1457 00:58:49,860 --> 00:58:51,485 [upbeat music] 1458 00:58:51,486 --> 00:58:52,862 - Did you do it? 1459 00:58:52,863 --> 00:58:57,450 KATIE: And big interviews were pursued ruthlessly. 1460 00:58:57,451 --> 00:58:59,827 PERSON: You guys, will you go away? 1461 00:58:59,828 --> 00:59:01,370 KATIE: Lorena Bobbitt... 1462 00:59:01,371 --> 00:59:02,747 REPORTER: She cut off her husband's penis 1463 00:59:02,748 --> 00:59:03,956 with a kitchen knife. 1464 00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:05,332 KATIE: Tonya Harding... 1465 00:59:05,333 --> 00:59:08,002 - I would like to begin by saying how sorry I am 1466 00:59:08,003 --> 00:59:09,920 about what happened to Nancy Kerrigan. 1467 00:59:09,921 --> 00:59:12,715 KATIE: There were all these big, sensational stories. 1468 00:59:12,716 --> 00:59:14,425 JUROR: We, the jury, find the defendant, 1469 00:59:14,426 --> 00:59:17,845 Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder. 1470 00:59:17,846 --> 00:59:19,138 REPORTER: Two brothers accused of 1471 00:59:19,139 --> 00:59:20,806 gunning down their parents... 1472 00:59:20,807 --> 00:59:25,478 - That was the period where TV put news into prime time-- 1473 00:59:25,479 --> 00:59:30,065 tabloid stories that dealt with emotion, controversy. 1474 00:59:30,066 --> 00:59:31,776 REPORTER: New details are emerging 1475 00:59:31,777 --> 00:59:34,361 about the police investigation of pop star Michael Jackson. 1476 00:59:34,362 --> 00:59:35,654 - Her name is Heidi Fleiss, 1477 00:59:35,655 --> 00:59:37,823 and she is accused of being the madam 1478 00:59:37,824 --> 00:59:39,867 of a high-priced call-girl ring. 1479 00:59:39,868 --> 00:59:42,995 - I never, ever abused my daughter. 1480 00:59:42,996 --> 00:59:44,497 KATIE: It was a way 1481 00:59:44,498 --> 00:59:46,957 to get a lot of attention for a network. 1482 00:59:46,958 --> 00:59:50,461 And attention led to ratings, ratings led to dollars, 1483 00:59:50,462 --> 00:59:53,297 and dollars led to happy executives. 1484 00:59:53,298 --> 00:59:54,715 Diane Sawyer... 1485 00:59:54,716 --> 00:59:56,467 - And these were people that you had talked 1486 00:59:56,468 --> 00:59:57,676 about helter skelter. 1487 00:59:57,677 --> 00:59:58,928 You had told them-- - Sure. 1488 00:59:58,929 --> 01:00:00,554 - You told them that to kill others... 1489 01:00:00,555 --> 01:00:01,764 - Yes, sir. - Was to give them life. 1490 01:00:01,765 --> 01:00:02,848 - Yeah. - Barbara... 1491 01:00:02,849 --> 01:00:04,683 - How do you feel when they call you-- 1492 01:00:04,684 --> 01:00:06,936 - Yeah, Wacko Jacko. Where'd that come from? 1493 01:00:06,937 --> 01:00:08,145 I'm not a wacko. 1494 01:00:08,146 --> 01:00:09,563 KATIE: Connie Chung... 1495 01:00:09,564 --> 01:00:11,565 - Is it true that he threatened to break your legs 1496 01:00:11,566 --> 01:00:12,733 and end your career? 1497 01:00:12,734 --> 01:00:14,902 - I did one called Now with Tom Brokaw. 1498 01:00:14,903 --> 01:00:16,904 We were all in there, 1499 01:00:16,905 --> 01:00:20,825 fighting like hell to get these "big gets." 1500 01:00:20,826 --> 01:00:23,035 MARTIN: A good get is someone 1501 01:00:23,036 --> 01:00:27,331 that everybody else is after, from a movie star... 1502 01:00:27,332 --> 01:00:29,291 BARBARA: Hello, Eric. - Hello. 1503 01:00:29,292 --> 01:00:30,501 BARBARA: Hello, Lyle. 1504 01:00:30,502 --> 01:00:31,877 MARTIN: To a murderer. 1505 01:00:31,878 --> 01:00:33,879 BARBARA: He doesn't need powder on his nose? 1506 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,297 CREW MEMBER: They say he looks fine. 1507 01:00:35,298 --> 01:00:38,300 - The first real big tabloid story 1508 01:00:38,301 --> 01:00:40,344 that I think everyone was fighting for 1509 01:00:40,345 --> 01:00:42,054 were the Menendez brothers. 1510 01:00:42,055 --> 01:00:44,431 - You aren't guilty because they found you spoiled. 1511 01:00:44,432 --> 01:00:46,183 - Mm-hmm. Or evil. 1512 01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:47,309 - Or evil. 1513 01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:50,271 - Just a normal-- I'm just a normal kid. 1514 01:00:50,272 --> 01:00:52,565 - Oh, Eric, you're a normal kid 1515 01:00:52,566 --> 01:00:54,233 who killed your parents! 1516 01:00:54,234 --> 01:00:55,609 - I know. 1517 01:00:55,610 --> 01:00:59,363 MARTIN: Barbara had a small team of bookers... 1518 01:00:59,364 --> 01:01:02,700 day and night on the phone, in and out of her office. 1519 01:01:02,701 --> 01:01:05,160 - I always hated the term "booker"--rhymes with "hooker." 1520 01:01:05,161 --> 01:01:06,954 But... 1521 01:01:06,955 --> 01:01:09,373 So we went by "editorial producer," 1522 01:01:09,374 --> 01:01:11,125 which sounds much nicer. 1523 01:01:11,126 --> 01:01:13,627 [line trilling, telephone ringing] 1524 01:01:13,628 --> 01:01:15,337 When a story breaks, 1525 01:01:15,338 --> 01:01:17,715 everyone's trying to call these people at the same time. 1526 01:01:17,716 --> 01:01:20,301 And the most important thing was to get it first. 1527 01:01:20,302 --> 01:01:23,012 We spent a lot of time on the phone, redialing. 1528 01:01:23,013 --> 01:01:24,513 Speed dial was a thing back then, 1529 01:01:24,514 --> 01:01:26,557 because you could just, like-- [dial tones beeping rapidly] 1530 01:01:26,558 --> 01:01:29,184 - You'd get on the phone and schmooze with people. 1531 01:01:29,185 --> 01:01:32,688 And a lot of it involved handwritten notes, 1532 01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:34,857 sucking up to the assistants. 1533 01:01:34,858 --> 01:01:38,444 There probably were fruit baskets involved, 1534 01:01:38,445 --> 01:01:40,779 wining and dining. 1535 01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:43,073 It was a real courtship. 1536 01:01:43,074 --> 01:01:44,742 CHRIS: It was a mad dash 1537 01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:47,119 of the bookers trying to go get these interviews, 1538 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,746 with millions of dollars at stake. 1539 01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:50,831 I remember Primetime and 20/20, 1540 01:01:50,832 --> 01:01:52,207 I think at the time, 1541 01:01:52,208 --> 01:01:56,086 were making profit of about $100 million each. 1542 01:01:56,087 --> 01:01:57,963 - I still sort of have PTSD 1543 01:01:57,964 --> 01:01:59,965 when I see a "breaking news" logo. 1544 01:01:59,966 --> 01:02:02,176 I hated writing letters to criminals 1545 01:02:02,177 --> 01:02:03,802 and murderers especially. 1546 01:02:03,803 --> 01:02:07,181 DAVID: Barbara understood like nobody else 1547 01:02:07,182 --> 01:02:09,642 how to build rapport. 1548 01:02:09,643 --> 01:02:11,060 She would dial the phone. 1549 01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:13,854 $5,000 Van Cleef, Arpels earring 1550 01:02:13,855 --> 01:02:15,648 would come off the earlobe. 1551 01:02:15,649 --> 01:02:17,816 She would put the receiver there, 1552 01:02:17,817 --> 01:02:20,110 and then the magic would start. 1553 01:02:20,111 --> 01:02:22,655 KATIE: There's something unsettling 1554 01:02:22,656 --> 01:02:25,240 about going after people 1555 01:02:25,241 --> 01:02:28,202 in their worst possible moment. 1556 01:02:28,203 --> 01:02:31,789 I've always tried to do it in a way that's respectful. 1557 01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:33,874 I think Barbara was that way, too. 1558 01:02:33,875 --> 01:02:36,168 - The thought did go through my mind. 1559 01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:38,587 BARBARA: That you wanted to die? 1560 01:02:38,588 --> 01:02:41,590 - Yeah, I suggested maybe I should just check out. 1561 01:02:41,591 --> 01:02:44,218 And then Dana said to me, 1562 01:02:44,219 --> 01:02:46,554 "you're still you, and I love you." 1563 01:02:47,889 --> 01:02:51,475 - And the pitch for Barbara was that she'll be fair. 1564 01:02:51,476 --> 01:02:54,436 - I've never seen press reporting 1565 01:02:54,437 --> 01:02:56,438 as I have with regard to me. 1566 01:02:56,439 --> 01:02:58,857 I mean, I wish the public could understand 1567 01:02:58,858 --> 01:03:01,360 how inherently dishonest the press is. 1568 01:03:01,361 --> 01:03:03,237 - As a member of the press, let me try to clear up 1569 01:03:03,238 --> 01:03:05,239 some of the things which you say are untrue. 1570 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,826 VICTOR: When that person agrees to do Barbara, 1571 01:03:08,827 --> 01:03:10,244 there's a celebration. 1572 01:03:10,245 --> 01:03:12,246 And it happened often. 1573 01:03:12,247 --> 01:03:13,789 Barbara would run into my office 1574 01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:15,749 like a little girl with a new toy. 1575 01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:17,334 "Oh, my God, I have to talk to you." 1576 01:03:17,335 --> 01:03:19,044 You know, knock on the door. 1577 01:03:19,045 --> 01:03:20,587 [knocking on table] We got this! 1578 01:03:20,588 --> 01:03:24,174 You know, jumping up and down, giggling. 1579 01:03:24,175 --> 01:03:26,844 BARBARA: This is a story 1580 01:03:26,845 --> 01:03:30,222 about crime and punishment. 1581 01:03:30,223 --> 01:03:32,349 MARTIN: Well, Barbara watched Diane warily, 1582 01:03:32,350 --> 01:03:35,853 because she was really in the same altitude as Barbara. 1583 01:03:35,854 --> 01:03:38,605 Other correspondents were not a threat. 1584 01:03:38,606 --> 01:03:40,899 I think Barbara secretly resented Diane 1585 01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:43,360 for being younger. 1586 01:03:43,361 --> 01:03:45,696 VICTOR: Roone pitted them against each other... 1587 01:03:45,697 --> 01:03:47,322 - Yeah. 1588 01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:50,701 - Which was either great management or diabolical. 1589 01:03:50,702 --> 01:03:53,287 PERSON: Tell me about the feud with Diane Sawyer. 1590 01:03:53,288 --> 01:03:55,706 BARBARA: I don't think Diane Sawyer and I had a feud. 1591 01:03:55,707 --> 01:03:58,834 I think people know that we were after the same gets. 1592 01:03:58,835 --> 01:04:01,128 ANNOUNCER: The depth and wisdom of Barbara Walters 1593 01:04:01,129 --> 01:04:04,882 and Diane Sawyer's warmth and intelligence... 1594 01:04:04,883 --> 01:04:07,009 VICTOR: They were on different floors. 1595 01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:08,719 Their edit rooms were put aside 1596 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,262 to another part of the floor-- 1597 01:04:10,263 --> 01:04:12,765 you know, North Korea, South Korea. 1598 01:04:12,766 --> 01:04:15,059 No members of our staffs talk to each other 1599 01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:16,894 about what they were working on. 1600 01:04:16,895 --> 01:04:20,731 - It was just a competitive space to live in. 1601 01:04:20,732 --> 01:04:22,274 CREW MEMBER: Texas cheerleader... 1602 01:04:22,275 --> 01:04:24,818 DAVID: Barbara could be very wily, 1603 01:04:24,819 --> 01:04:26,945 and she wasn't above dirty tricks and tactics 1604 01:04:26,946 --> 01:04:28,322 that were, in my experience, 1605 01:04:28,323 --> 01:04:29,948 beneath some of her competitors, 1606 01:04:29,949 --> 01:04:31,784 in particular Diane Sawyer. 1607 01:04:31,785 --> 01:04:34,578 - And now the one and only Katharine Hepburn. 1608 01:04:34,579 --> 01:04:36,330 CYNTHIA: Diane had booked, 1609 01:04:36,331 --> 01:04:38,540 fair and square, Katharine Hepburn. 1610 01:04:38,541 --> 01:04:41,502 And Barbara, who knew Katharine Hepburn, 1611 01:04:41,503 --> 01:04:46,381 put a lot of pressure on Kate to unbook and go with her. 1612 01:04:46,382 --> 01:04:49,593 You know, and Kate said, "No, no..." 1613 01:04:49,594 --> 01:04:51,178 [imitating Katharine Hepburn] "I promised Diane, 1614 01:04:51,179 --> 01:04:53,305 and I will do it with her." 1615 01:04:53,306 --> 01:04:55,849 - How's that for a statement? 1616 01:04:55,850 --> 01:04:57,684 - [normal voice] And she did. 1617 01:04:57,685 --> 01:05:01,772 - If I showed up on Mars, she would have a note there 1618 01:05:01,773 --> 01:05:04,191 with the Barbara Walters stationery... 1619 01:05:04,192 --> 01:05:05,776 [laughing] Just requesting an interview 1620 01:05:05,777 --> 01:05:07,778 with anybody who might happen to show. 1621 01:05:07,779 --> 01:05:09,196 - It's the worst. 1622 01:05:09,197 --> 01:05:11,198 - And you see, with us, we're competing with Primetime. 1623 01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:12,783 It's not just that we're competing with you. 1624 01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:14,785 - It's me, and then-- BARBARA: Diane. 1625 01:05:14,786 --> 01:05:16,662 - And then it's you and Diane. 1626 01:05:16,663 --> 01:05:19,248 When Roone Arledge came to me and said, 1627 01:05:19,249 --> 01:05:22,000 "I'd really like you to come to ABC News," 1628 01:05:22,001 --> 01:05:23,752 I said, "Let me think about that. 1629 01:05:23,753 --> 01:05:24,753 Yes." 1630 01:05:24,754 --> 01:05:27,506 And I went, thinking, 1631 01:05:27,507 --> 01:05:30,175 well, this is very cool. 1632 01:05:30,176 --> 01:05:32,094 Barbara Walters is there. 1633 01:05:32,095 --> 01:05:33,679 Diane Sawyer is there. 1634 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,392 We will be a triumvirate of strong women. 1635 01:05:38,393 --> 01:05:41,145 How stupid am I? 1636 01:05:41,146 --> 01:05:44,231 Because Diane and Barbara were in this 1637 01:05:44,232 --> 01:05:47,609 monstrous battle to win stories, 1638 01:05:47,610 --> 01:05:51,738 and I was caught in the middle. 1639 01:05:51,739 --> 01:05:53,616 CREW MEMBER: Quiet, please. 1640 01:05:55,702 --> 01:05:57,202 CYNTHIA: I never had a conversation 1641 01:05:57,203 --> 01:05:58,412 with Diane Sawyer 1642 01:05:58,413 --> 01:06:00,623 about her feelings about Barbara. 1643 01:06:02,542 --> 01:06:04,126 But I had plenty with Barbara 1644 01:06:04,127 --> 01:06:05,961 about her feelings about Diane, 1645 01:06:05,962 --> 01:06:08,255 because she was certainly-- 1646 01:06:08,256 --> 01:06:10,215 [sighs] 1647 01:06:10,216 --> 01:06:14,344 Dogged by Diane's very existence. 1648 01:06:14,345 --> 01:06:16,513 She often said 1649 01:06:16,514 --> 01:06:19,933 Diane was the perfect woman. 1650 01:06:19,934 --> 01:06:21,393 DIANE: Yes, I'm ready. 1651 01:06:21,394 --> 01:06:24,563 CYNTHIA: She used the word, "a blonde goddess," 1652 01:06:24,564 --> 01:06:26,440 this ideal woman, 1653 01:06:26,441 --> 01:06:30,903 and that she, Barbara, couldn't compete with that. 1654 01:06:30,904 --> 01:06:34,489 She could work harder, she could know more people, 1655 01:06:34,490 --> 01:06:37,451 but she couldn't compete with that... 1656 01:06:37,452 --> 01:06:39,453 "the blonde goddess." 1657 01:06:39,454 --> 01:06:41,163 VICTOR: She would say, you know, 1658 01:06:41,164 --> 01:06:44,708 "Diane is married to Mike Nichols. 1659 01:06:44,709 --> 01:06:46,418 I'm not married to Mike Nichols." 1660 01:06:46,419 --> 01:06:50,756 I said, "Barbara, you can marry anybody you want." 1661 01:06:50,757 --> 01:06:54,760 Her insecurities were really nightmarish. 1662 01:06:54,761 --> 01:06:57,137 - What inspired you to go into television? 1663 01:06:57,138 --> 01:06:59,765 I mean, did you think, this is what I want to do? 1664 01:06:59,766 --> 01:07:02,309 - I was a weather girl. - I know. 1665 01:07:02,310 --> 01:07:03,894 - Yes, a very bad weather girl. 1666 01:07:03,895 --> 01:07:06,146 CYNTHIA: This has been interpreted, I think, 1667 01:07:06,147 --> 01:07:08,232 by a lot of people to say that 1668 01:07:08,233 --> 01:07:10,692 Barbara was not good to other women, 1669 01:07:10,693 --> 01:07:13,403 and I think that is a canard. 1670 01:07:13,404 --> 01:07:15,781 Not at all. 1671 01:07:15,782 --> 01:07:18,659 She couldn't tolerate having Diane Sawyer rise 1672 01:07:18,660 --> 01:07:22,871 in what she saw as a direct challenge 1673 01:07:22,872 --> 01:07:25,415 to what she had accomplished. 1674 01:07:25,416 --> 01:07:27,918 What a sadness. 1675 01:07:27,919 --> 01:07:29,836 Talk about the death of joy. 1676 01:07:29,837 --> 01:07:31,546 PERSON: See you tomorrow, Barbara. 1677 01:07:31,547 --> 01:07:33,173 BARBARA: Bye! 1678 01:07:33,174 --> 01:07:36,343 CYNTHIA: I think it tore into all of those parts of herself 1679 01:07:36,344 --> 01:07:39,930 where she felt as a child she... 1680 01:07:39,931 --> 01:07:41,932 was an outsider. 1681 01:07:41,933 --> 01:07:43,767 In some bizarre way, 1682 01:07:43,768 --> 01:07:45,894 Diane made her feel 1683 01:07:45,895 --> 01:07:49,564 all of those insecurities all over again. 1684 01:07:49,565 --> 01:07:51,942 If Barbara Walters couldn't see 1685 01:07:51,943 --> 01:07:54,236 what she brought to the party, 1686 01:07:54,237 --> 01:07:56,363 wow... 1687 01:07:56,364 --> 01:07:58,365 let's learn from that, ladies. 1688 01:07:58,366 --> 01:07:59,825 [scoffs] 1689 01:07:59,826 --> 01:08:02,411 But that drive that had gotten her there, that-- 1690 01:08:02,412 --> 01:08:05,581 it wasn't a switch she could flip. 1691 01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,502 She was gonna show them that she was the better woman, 1692 01:08:10,503 --> 01:08:15,424 that she was the better booker to get bigger numbers. 1693 01:08:15,425 --> 01:08:18,135 [dramatic music] 1694 01:08:18,136 --> 01:08:20,637 REPORTER 1: She has never spoken to the public. 1695 01:08:20,638 --> 01:08:22,931 REPORTER 2: She is a target in this criminal investigation. 1696 01:08:22,932 --> 01:08:27,644 She is under pressures that we probably can't even imagine. 1697 01:08:27,645 --> 01:08:30,147 REPORTER 3: No one involved in this scandal 1698 01:08:30,148 --> 01:08:32,482 will emerge unscarred. 1699 01:08:32,483 --> 01:08:34,985 It begins with a young woman named Monica Lewinsky. 1700 01:08:34,986 --> 01:08:37,321 CREW MEMBER: We do have speed. - I'm not ready. 1701 01:08:37,322 --> 01:08:39,239 [laughter] 1702 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,033 - Sitting down with Barbara Walters 1703 01:08:41,034 --> 01:08:44,202 was not on my bingo card for my 20s 1704 01:08:44,203 --> 01:08:45,912 for an interview. 1705 01:08:45,913 --> 01:08:47,789 So it was the first time 1706 01:08:47,790 --> 01:08:50,292 that people heard my voice consensually. 1707 01:08:50,293 --> 01:08:52,544 PERSON 1: How you doing, Monica? Monica! 1708 01:08:52,545 --> 01:08:55,172 PERSON 2: Monica! PERSON 3: Monica! 1709 01:08:55,173 --> 01:08:58,091 You have sexual relations with the president? 1710 01:08:58,092 --> 01:08:59,968 BILL: Indeed, I did have a relationship 1711 01:08:59,969 --> 01:09:02,471 with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate. 1712 01:09:02,472 --> 01:09:04,222 MONICA: It's understandable, 1713 01:09:04,223 --> 01:09:06,850 with how our news world is set up-- 1714 01:09:06,851 --> 01:09:09,770 you and your story is a commodity. 1715 01:09:09,771 --> 01:09:12,189 PERSON: Back. Move back. [indistinct chatter] 1716 01:09:12,190 --> 01:09:15,609 It's interesting to see inside one of these stories 1717 01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:18,278 now that I'm out of it and older. 1718 01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:19,613 One of the ways 1719 01:09:19,614 --> 01:09:22,115 that someone can really lose their narrative 1720 01:09:22,116 --> 01:09:24,409 is when you don't engage with the press. 1721 01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:26,828 - Relax, people! Relax, come on! 1722 01:09:26,829 --> 01:09:28,246 MONICA: Feed the beast-- 1723 01:09:28,247 --> 01:09:30,165 you know, you have to give them something. 1724 01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:31,625 Otherwise, they're starving, 1725 01:09:31,626 --> 01:09:33,543 and they're going to say whatever they want. 1726 01:09:33,544 --> 01:09:35,003 - Hey, pal, get your arms off her! 1727 01:09:35,004 --> 01:09:36,963 Get your arms off her! 1728 01:09:36,964 --> 01:09:39,132 - Leave her alone! 1729 01:09:39,133 --> 01:09:43,053 BARBARA: It took a full year to get the interview. 1730 01:09:43,054 --> 01:09:45,430 - I want some space, God damn it! Back! 1731 01:09:45,431 --> 01:09:47,891 BARBARA: And it started with her lawyer, 1732 01:09:47,892 --> 01:09:51,228 whom I had to get on my side-- Bill Ginsburg. 1733 01:09:51,229 --> 01:09:52,854 - I remember William Ginsburg 1734 01:09:52,855 --> 01:09:54,439 would always hold up his phone. 1735 01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:56,441 He's like, that's Katie Couric, 1736 01:09:56,442 --> 01:09:58,276 or, that's Diane Sawyer. 1737 01:09:58,277 --> 01:10:00,862 But I always felt that they wanted Oprah 1738 01:10:00,863 --> 01:10:02,739 to do the interview. 1739 01:10:02,740 --> 01:10:05,617 OPRAH: We had an agreement with Monica Lewinsky's team, 1740 01:10:05,618 --> 01:10:08,078 and then Barbara swooped in 1741 01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:11,081 and said to Monica Lewinsky, 1742 01:10:11,082 --> 01:10:12,666 "I can give you a better deal. 1743 01:10:12,667 --> 01:10:14,960 "I can not only do 1744 01:10:14,961 --> 01:10:17,504 "a Barbara Walters prime-time special, 1745 01:10:17,505 --> 01:10:19,464 "but I can offer you Nightline. 1746 01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:21,425 "I can offer you Good Morning America. 1747 01:10:21,426 --> 01:10:22,634 I can offer you--" 1748 01:10:22,635 --> 01:10:26,138 And I just had The Oprah Show, so... 1749 01:10:26,139 --> 01:10:27,347 I didn't like that. 1750 01:10:27,348 --> 01:10:28,849 PERSON: Monica, over here! 1751 01:10:28,850 --> 01:10:31,476 BARBARA: It was Dr. Lewinsky's Los Angeles home 1752 01:10:31,477 --> 01:10:34,521 that Monica escaped to two weeks ago. 1753 01:10:34,522 --> 01:10:36,940 And then I interviewed her father. 1754 01:10:36,941 --> 01:10:38,859 MONICA: Barbara's talk with my dad, 1755 01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,528 it was respectful in a way that... 1756 01:10:41,529 --> 01:10:44,114 the foundation of our relationship 1757 01:10:44,115 --> 01:10:48,493 was built brick by brick very slowly. 1758 01:10:48,494 --> 01:10:51,121 The first time we met, 1759 01:10:51,122 --> 01:10:54,624 I remember feeling put at ease quite quickly. 1760 01:10:54,625 --> 01:10:58,628 My dad had said that I had always been such a good kid, 1761 01:10:58,629 --> 01:11:01,006 like, I didn't do drugs. I didn't steal. 1762 01:11:01,007 --> 01:11:03,759 I didn't--you know, I got good grades. 1763 01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:05,677 When you think about a kid who gets into trouble, 1764 01:11:05,678 --> 01:11:07,304 I was not that kid. 1765 01:11:07,305 --> 01:11:09,556 And Barbara, without missing a beat, 1766 01:11:09,557 --> 01:11:11,892 she was like, "Next time, shoplift." 1767 01:11:11,893 --> 01:11:14,895 [laughing] You know, so those little touches 1768 01:11:14,896 --> 01:11:17,481 are all things that made Barbara Barbara. 1769 01:11:17,482 --> 01:11:19,566 BARBARA: I thought that I had her trust. 1770 01:11:19,567 --> 01:11:22,027 But she had no money, 1771 01:11:22,028 --> 01:11:24,154 and she was going to sell her story. 1772 01:11:24,155 --> 01:11:26,490 - We were competing with international media. 1773 01:11:26,491 --> 01:11:29,117 We were competing with people, ultimately, 1774 01:11:29,118 --> 01:11:32,162 that were willing to pay a lot of money for the interview. 1775 01:11:32,163 --> 01:11:35,499 - I said, "Your credibility is the most important thing." 1776 01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:37,918 MARTIN: It would be a financial sacrifice 1777 01:11:37,919 --> 01:11:40,128 for Monica to say, "No, I don't want your money. 1778 01:11:40,129 --> 01:11:41,838 I'm going to do Barbara." 1779 01:11:41,839 --> 01:11:45,133 So we agreed that we would air in the United States 1780 01:11:45,134 --> 01:11:47,969 our broadcast once and only once, 1781 01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:50,472 and she was free to sell her story 1782 01:11:50,473 --> 01:11:52,641 to international broadcasters. 1783 01:11:52,642 --> 01:11:56,144 OPRAH: Because Barbara had been number one, 1784 01:11:56,145 --> 01:11:57,604 she had been it, 1785 01:11:57,605 --> 01:12:00,774 she had been the madame for so long, 1786 01:12:00,775 --> 01:12:04,027 that she saw that as her rightful place in the space. 1787 01:12:04,028 --> 01:12:06,404 And if there was something that deserved 1788 01:12:06,405 --> 01:12:08,198 a special one-on-one interview, 1789 01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:09,783 I think she felt that she was the one 1790 01:12:09,784 --> 01:12:11,117 that was supposed to have it. 1791 01:12:11,118 --> 01:12:15,497 And 9.9 times out of 10, she got it. 1792 01:12:15,498 --> 01:12:18,291 - I felt like, sitting down with Barbara, 1793 01:12:18,292 --> 01:12:21,962 it would-- that it would be legitimizing. 1794 01:12:21,963 --> 01:12:24,673 You know, there were a number of different layers 1795 01:12:24,674 --> 01:12:26,383 and levels of trust 1796 01:12:26,384 --> 01:12:29,845 that we had to meet in order to get to yes. 1797 01:12:29,846 --> 01:12:31,388 REPORTER: The first television interview 1798 01:12:31,389 --> 01:12:33,265 with Monica Lewinsky airs tonight. 1799 01:12:33,266 --> 01:12:35,016 It'll be an in-depth two-hour exclusive 1800 01:12:35,017 --> 01:12:37,018 with Barbara Walters on 20/20. 1801 01:12:37,019 --> 01:12:40,230 - She has done this interview with no payment of any kind, 1802 01:12:40,231 --> 01:12:43,233 and we could ask her whatever we wanted. 1803 01:12:43,234 --> 01:12:45,443 Monica, this is the first time 1804 01:12:45,444 --> 01:12:47,654 that you have really been able to speak out 1805 01:12:47,655 --> 01:12:51,032 and say pretty much anything you wanted to say. 1806 01:12:51,033 --> 01:12:52,243 - Yes. 1807 01:12:54,036 --> 01:12:56,371 I waited a long time 1808 01:12:56,372 --> 01:13:00,792 to be able to express to the country... 1809 01:13:00,793 --> 01:13:02,794 how very sorry I am 1810 01:13:02,795 --> 01:13:06,131 for my part in this past year's ordeal. 1811 01:13:06,132 --> 01:13:07,632 Barbara did a wonderful job 1812 01:13:07,633 --> 01:13:10,135 of trying to make me feel comfortable, 1813 01:13:10,136 --> 01:13:12,095 but I was nervous throughout. 1814 01:13:12,096 --> 01:13:14,723 I remember that fat stack of cards, 1815 01:13:14,724 --> 01:13:17,642 and I thought, oh, my gosh, you know, how many questions? 1816 01:13:17,643 --> 01:13:20,020 I think there were 200 questions. 1817 01:13:20,021 --> 01:13:22,856 - I don't want to get too personal, but... 1818 01:13:22,857 --> 01:13:24,274 whenever I say, "I don't want to get 1819 01:13:24,275 --> 01:13:25,734 too personal, but," then you know-- 1820 01:13:25,735 --> 01:13:26,776 - [laughs] 1821 01:13:26,777 --> 01:13:29,988 - It was an uncomfortable situation. 1822 01:13:29,989 --> 01:13:32,782 It was such a delicate dance. 1823 01:13:32,783 --> 01:13:34,326 Are you going to be hard on her? 1824 01:13:34,327 --> 01:13:35,452 Is she a victim? 1825 01:13:35,453 --> 01:13:36,995 Is Bill Clinton a perpetrator? 1826 01:13:36,996 --> 01:13:38,705 - The story broke. 1827 01:13:38,706 --> 01:13:41,875 Everyone in the country now knew... 1828 01:13:41,876 --> 01:13:43,752 Monica Lewinsky. - [sighs] 1829 01:13:43,753 --> 01:13:45,670 Unfortunately. 1830 01:13:45,671 --> 01:13:49,049 - Barbara tried to walk that line 1831 01:13:49,050 --> 01:13:53,678 of being fair to her, being a little tough. 1832 01:13:53,679 --> 01:13:55,597 - You were then required to discuss 1833 01:13:55,598 --> 01:13:58,433 every intimate detail of your relationship 1834 01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:00,852 before a grand jury. 1835 01:14:00,853 --> 01:14:03,104 It must have been excruciating. 1836 01:14:03,105 --> 01:14:05,482 - It was very, very violating. 1837 01:14:05,483 --> 01:14:07,525 Without passing judgment 1838 01:14:07,526 --> 01:14:10,403 on whatever bad choices I had made, 1839 01:14:10,404 --> 01:14:14,574 I think that she felt that it would be unfair 1840 01:14:14,575 --> 01:14:16,826 for this to follow me the rest of my life. 1841 01:14:16,827 --> 01:14:18,745 Is this okay so far? - You are wonderful. 1842 01:14:18,746 --> 01:14:21,206 You are touching. You are honest. You are-- 1843 01:14:21,207 --> 01:14:23,083 - Okay. I'm just being me, so-- - I know you are. 1844 01:14:23,084 --> 01:14:26,294 I know you are, but I'm telling you, it is wonderful. 1845 01:14:26,295 --> 01:14:29,798 CHRIS: Barbara threw a party the night it aired. 1846 01:14:29,799 --> 01:14:32,384 I went downstairs to go smoke a cigarette, 1847 01:14:32,385 --> 01:14:35,303 and I remember sitting out on Fifth Avenue 1848 01:14:35,304 --> 01:14:36,846 in front of her apartment, 1849 01:14:36,847 --> 01:14:39,891 and I looked up at all the TVs. 1850 01:14:39,892 --> 01:14:42,727 And every single TV 1851 01:14:42,728 --> 01:14:45,271 was playing the Monica Lewinsky interview. 1852 01:14:45,272 --> 01:14:48,483 BARBARA: It was the highest-rated 1853 01:14:48,484 --> 01:14:50,694 news interview of all time. 1854 01:14:50,695 --> 01:14:53,488 Nothing has surpassed it. 1855 01:14:53,489 --> 01:14:55,365 KATIE: There's a certain feeling you get 1856 01:14:55,366 --> 01:14:57,117 when you're watching something, 1857 01:14:57,118 --> 01:15:00,370 knowing that everyone is watching the same thing 1858 01:15:00,371 --> 01:15:02,789 at that very same moment. 1859 01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:05,417 And that doesn't exist anymore. 1860 01:15:05,418 --> 01:15:10,672 And I think that's when Barbara was the queen, 1861 01:15:10,673 --> 01:15:13,466 getting 70 million people to watch, 1862 01:15:13,467 --> 01:15:17,262 everyone processing it at the same time. 1863 01:15:17,263 --> 01:15:20,140 - Where do you go from here? 1864 01:15:20,141 --> 01:15:22,767 - I don't know. 1865 01:15:22,768 --> 01:15:25,729 I think I have... 1866 01:15:25,730 --> 01:15:28,815 I have a lot of healing to do. 1867 01:15:28,816 --> 01:15:31,609 I think it was important to Barbara 1868 01:15:31,610 --> 01:15:34,529 that the interview had been something 1869 01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:36,364 that was positive for me. 1870 01:15:36,365 --> 01:15:39,242 I just had mixed feelings. 1871 01:15:39,243 --> 01:15:41,411 But as terrifying and difficult 1872 01:15:41,412 --> 01:15:43,204 as the interview was, 1873 01:15:43,205 --> 01:15:46,791 I finished that day having felt seen by her. 1874 01:15:46,792 --> 01:15:48,543 BARBARA: Let's stop tape. 1875 01:15:48,544 --> 01:15:50,296 CREW MEMBER: Stop recording. Please stop recording. 1876 01:15:53,549 --> 01:15:55,550 [dramatic music] 1877 01:15:55,551 --> 01:15:57,093 ♪ ♪ 1878 01:15:57,094 --> 01:15:59,387 - Barbara, I just wanted to go over 1879 01:15:59,388 --> 01:16:02,223 Senator Barbara Boxer with you. 1880 01:16:02,224 --> 01:16:04,184 PERSON: You took on a stature 1881 01:16:04,185 --> 01:16:06,895 that no other woman in the business has ever had. 1882 01:16:06,896 --> 01:16:08,646 - Is she in? - She's not here yet. 1883 01:16:08,647 --> 01:16:11,524 She should be here in the next five minutes. 1884 01:16:11,525 --> 01:16:14,235 - Son graduated summa cum laude from Ithaca. 1885 01:16:14,236 --> 01:16:15,445 - Yep. - Family week. 1886 01:16:15,446 --> 01:16:16,988 CHARLES: Arguably, 1887 01:16:16,989 --> 01:16:19,115 you are one of the most important people 1888 01:16:19,116 --> 01:16:21,242 that have come along in television news. 1889 01:16:21,243 --> 01:16:24,579 And at some point, couldn't you say to yourself, 1890 01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:26,664 I don't have anything left to prove? 1891 01:16:26,665 --> 01:16:30,710 - I always felt I had something more to prove. 1892 01:16:30,711 --> 01:16:32,629 PERSON: Okay. 1893 01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:34,380 BARBARA: Quick, hurry! 1894 01:16:34,381 --> 01:16:36,842 CREW MEMBER: Four, three, two... 1895 01:16:38,469 --> 01:16:40,261 - I've always wanted to do a show 1896 01:16:40,262 --> 01:16:42,222 with women of different generations, 1897 01:16:42,223 --> 01:16:43,640 backgrounds, and views. 1898 01:16:43,641 --> 01:16:45,642 This is that show. 1899 01:16:45,643 --> 01:16:47,227 The View was my idea. 1900 01:16:47,228 --> 01:16:49,896 I didn't know anything about daytime television. 1901 01:16:49,897 --> 01:16:51,898 It was a simple idea-- 1902 01:16:51,899 --> 01:16:55,401 different women of different generations, 1903 01:16:55,402 --> 01:16:56,611 sitting together. 1904 01:16:56,612 --> 01:16:58,279 You're not married. You're not married. 1905 01:16:58,280 --> 01:16:59,280 PERSON: And don't want kids. 1906 01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,532 - And don't want--all right. 1907 01:17:00,533 --> 01:17:02,867 And in its way, it was the first. 1908 01:17:02,868 --> 01:17:04,702 - The one thing that you shouldn't take 1909 01:17:04,703 --> 01:17:06,788 is stuff from the White House. 1910 01:17:06,789 --> 01:17:09,290 - If everyone stole something from the White House, Barbara-- 1911 01:17:09,291 --> 01:17:10,667 [laughter] 1912 01:17:10,668 --> 01:17:11,793 BARBARA: People thought, who wants to listen 1913 01:17:11,794 --> 01:17:13,253 to a bunch of women? 1914 01:17:13,254 --> 01:17:16,339 I thought, women want to listen to a bunch of women. 1915 01:17:16,340 --> 01:17:18,424 I think cards are there for us to take, not silver. 1916 01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:20,468 PERSON: Where was it, and how did you steal it? 1917 01:17:20,469 --> 01:17:21,845 - I was visiting-- 1918 01:17:21,846 --> 01:17:23,346 - Excuse me! I'd like to know! 1919 01:17:23,347 --> 01:17:24,973 - We talked about relationships. 1920 01:17:24,974 --> 01:17:26,975 We talked about pop culture. 1921 01:17:26,976 --> 01:17:28,893 We talked about personal stories. 1922 01:17:28,894 --> 01:17:31,771 If one of us had a fight with our husband, oh, great, 1923 01:17:31,772 --> 01:17:33,231 that's grist for the mill, you know. 1924 01:17:33,232 --> 01:17:34,440 - Now you're even getting dates. 1925 01:17:34,441 --> 01:17:35,650 You told us you never had dates before. 1926 01:17:35,651 --> 01:17:38,027 - I know. I'd always get dumped. 1927 01:17:38,028 --> 01:17:40,071 - Not wearing underwear. That's what I do. 1928 01:17:40,072 --> 01:17:41,322 It's much easier. What is-- 1929 01:17:41,323 --> 01:17:42,740 ELLEN: Really? - Yeah, I'm serious. 1930 01:17:42,741 --> 01:17:46,202 What is next for you? [laughter] 1931 01:17:46,203 --> 01:17:48,788 - You share so much on the show. 1932 01:17:48,789 --> 01:17:52,292 [cheers and applause] 1933 01:17:52,293 --> 01:17:54,085 LORI: When Saturday Night Live 1934 01:17:54,086 --> 01:17:55,545 started spoofing The View, 1935 01:17:55,546 --> 01:17:57,630 they knew that they had really made it. 1936 01:17:57,631 --> 01:17:59,299 - Ladies, let me tell you-- 1937 01:17:59,300 --> 01:18:03,803 I haven't felt this girlishly giddy since I was 70. 1938 01:18:03,804 --> 01:18:06,222 ANDY: There was absolutely nothing like The View 1939 01:18:06,223 --> 01:18:08,057 on television at the time. 1940 01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:11,477 It was all about the most controversial topics, 1941 01:18:11,478 --> 01:18:14,772 things that you had never seen 1942 01:18:14,773 --> 01:18:16,816 women talking about on television. 1943 01:18:16,817 --> 01:18:19,277 BARBARA: The two brides are married to each other, 1944 01:18:19,278 --> 01:18:22,238 and the men are married to each other. 1945 01:18:22,239 --> 01:18:25,116 - And it was fascinating then, and it still is. 1946 01:18:25,117 --> 01:18:27,994 - And as you can see, this program is live. 1947 01:18:27,995 --> 01:18:29,329 It's unrehearsed. 1948 01:18:29,330 --> 01:18:31,623 Sometimes I wish it were rehearsed. 1949 01:18:31,624 --> 01:18:34,417 JOY: I think it's very popular because it's spontaneous, 1950 01:18:34,418 --> 01:18:36,127 because they don't know what's gonna come 1951 01:18:36,128 --> 01:18:38,004 out of their mouths-- our mouths. 1952 01:18:38,005 --> 01:18:40,590 I keep forgetting I'm on the show. 1953 01:18:40,591 --> 01:18:43,551 Just to hear Barbara Walters say the words "oral sex" 1954 01:18:43,552 --> 01:18:45,762 is worth the price of admission. 1955 01:18:45,763 --> 01:18:48,056 I mean, you never know what we're going to say, 1956 01:18:48,057 --> 01:18:50,558 and I think that that's a very important part of the show. 1957 01:18:50,559 --> 01:18:53,019 The arguing back and forth can get out of control. 1958 01:18:53,020 --> 01:18:55,271 WHOOPI: What do you call this? - Muslims killed us on 9/11! 1959 01:18:55,272 --> 01:18:57,273 WHOOPI: No! Oh, my God! 1960 01:18:57,274 --> 01:18:59,233 That is such bullshit! 1961 01:18:59,234 --> 01:19:02,487 ANDY: I think it works because it's live, it's topical. 1962 01:19:02,488 --> 01:19:06,616 It features women who have very strong personalities, 1963 01:19:06,617 --> 01:19:08,868 and there's conflict in every episode. 1964 01:19:08,869 --> 01:19:10,828 - You're outraged about-- 1965 01:19:10,829 --> 01:19:12,789 Muslims killed us on 9/11. 1966 01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:14,916 [cheers and applause] 1967 01:19:14,917 --> 01:19:16,584 BARBARA: I want to say something. 1968 01:19:16,585 --> 01:19:18,795 We should be able to have discussions 1969 01:19:18,796 --> 01:19:21,589 without washing our hands and screaming 1970 01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:23,132 and walking offstage. 1971 01:19:23,133 --> 01:19:24,342 I love my colleagues. 1972 01:19:24,343 --> 01:19:25,760 That should not have happened. 1973 01:19:25,761 --> 01:19:27,178 JOY: Well, at one point, 1974 01:19:27,179 --> 01:19:29,097 we were on the cover of The New York Times Magazine 1975 01:19:29,098 --> 01:19:31,391 as the top political show to go to. 1976 01:19:31,392 --> 01:19:33,017 - You really think that being on the show 1977 01:19:33,018 --> 01:19:35,019 with a bunch of women who never shut up 1978 01:19:35,020 --> 01:19:36,354 is going to be calming? 1979 01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:38,439 - I was trying to find a show 1980 01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:40,191 that Michelle actually watched. 1981 01:19:40,192 --> 01:19:42,527 [laughter] And so I thought-- 1982 01:19:42,528 --> 01:19:45,113 - And this is it. - This is it, right here. 1983 01:19:45,114 --> 01:19:47,865 LORI: In the beginning, Barbara was... 1984 01:19:47,866 --> 01:19:51,452 much more like Barbara in the anchor chair. 1985 01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,372 - As you notice, I never give opinions on anything. 1986 01:19:54,373 --> 01:19:57,208 PERSON: Oh, no, not ever. - I really don't, but-- 1987 01:19:57,209 --> 01:20:00,461 LORI: And then over time, she loosened up. 1988 01:20:00,462 --> 01:20:01,796 - Okay, I agree with you. Fine. 1989 01:20:01,797 --> 01:20:04,424 - Really? Okay. - All right, then. 1990 01:20:04,425 --> 01:20:07,844 LORI: She laughed a lot. 1991 01:20:07,845 --> 01:20:10,054 We all laughed a lot. 1992 01:20:10,055 --> 01:20:12,056 ANDY: It definitely allowed another part 1993 01:20:12,057 --> 01:20:14,475 of Barbara Walters' personality to show. 1994 01:20:14,476 --> 01:20:16,102 - How would you pick up a man 1995 01:20:16,103 --> 01:20:18,146 if you wanted a one-night stand, just for sex, Barbara? 1996 01:20:18,147 --> 01:20:19,689 PERSON: The same way you do it. 1997 01:20:19,690 --> 01:20:21,691 - How would I pick up a man just for sex? 1998 01:20:21,692 --> 01:20:23,568 - I want to know how Barbara-- 1999 01:20:23,569 --> 01:20:25,486 I want to know how-- because, you know-- 2000 01:20:25,487 --> 01:20:26,904 - Are you crazy? 2001 01:20:26,905 --> 01:20:28,906 - According to surveys, you like a lot of sex, Barbara. 2002 01:20:28,907 --> 01:20:32,493 - Here we go. One, two, three. 2003 01:20:32,494 --> 01:20:34,162 LORI: She was in her late 60s 2004 01:20:34,163 --> 01:20:35,580 when she started The View, 2005 01:20:35,581 --> 01:20:40,126 but she was just full of life and energy. 2006 01:20:40,127 --> 01:20:42,253 - Oh! 2007 01:20:42,254 --> 01:20:45,506 - I think that she wanted this show for her retirement. 2008 01:20:45,507 --> 01:20:47,592 She knew that her days were numbered, 2009 01:20:47,593 --> 01:20:51,304 and so she wanted a show as she went into her later years. 2010 01:20:51,305 --> 01:20:55,975 - She got older on air, and she stayed there. 2011 01:20:55,976 --> 01:20:59,772 She would not let anybody kick her high heels off. 2012 01:21:01,148 --> 01:21:03,316 ANDY: One of the last times 2013 01:21:03,317 --> 01:21:06,235 I guest-hosted The View, 2014 01:21:06,236 --> 01:21:09,072 it was the morning after the Oscars, 2015 01:21:09,073 --> 01:21:11,157 and Barbara said on the air 2016 01:21:11,158 --> 01:21:14,327 that she didn't really get American Hustle. 2017 01:21:14,328 --> 01:21:16,788 - You didn't get it? - I did not get it. 2018 01:21:16,789 --> 01:21:18,956 - I have to say, a lot of people 2019 01:21:18,957 --> 01:21:22,126 of a different generation didn't understand. 2020 01:21:22,127 --> 01:21:24,295 Is that bad to say? I mean, no-- 2021 01:21:24,296 --> 01:21:27,006 - Well, you just said it, so, yeah. 2022 01:21:27,007 --> 01:21:30,385 - Soon after I said that, they went to commercial break. 2023 01:21:30,386 --> 01:21:33,930 As the camera was swooping around the table, 2024 01:21:33,931 --> 01:21:36,140 Barbara is lunging at me, 2025 01:21:36,141 --> 01:21:40,937 saying, "How dare you insult me on my own show?" 2026 01:21:40,938 --> 01:21:44,524 - I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, but... 2027 01:21:44,525 --> 01:21:46,901 I got my ass handed to me by Barbara Walters. 2028 01:21:46,902 --> 01:21:48,903 I mean, few can say that. 2029 01:21:48,904 --> 01:21:51,572 Or maybe a handful... 2030 01:21:51,573 --> 01:21:52,657 or more. 2031 01:21:52,658 --> 01:21:54,784 - Oh, oh, oh, excuse me... 2032 01:21:54,785 --> 01:21:56,452 JOY: Nothing was ever enough for Barbara, 2033 01:21:56,453 --> 01:21:59,497 but that was the secret to keep getting better 2034 01:21:59,498 --> 01:22:00,998 and striving all the time. 2035 01:22:00,999 --> 01:22:04,001 And I think that her personal life suffered because of that. 2036 01:22:04,002 --> 01:22:06,379 BARBARA: Young people come up to me and say, 2037 01:22:06,380 --> 01:22:07,797 "I wish I could be you. 2038 01:22:07,798 --> 01:22:09,423 I wish I could have a life like yours." 2039 01:22:09,424 --> 01:22:13,636 And I say, "You have to take the whole package." 2040 01:22:13,637 --> 01:22:15,805 I have a daughter whom I adore, 2041 01:22:15,806 --> 01:22:18,766 who is simply wonderful and went through-- 2042 01:22:18,767 --> 01:22:20,935 and she talks about it-- a bad period. 2043 01:22:20,936 --> 01:22:22,437 You did this with your child. - Yes. 2044 01:22:22,438 --> 01:22:24,981 - To this day-- And my daughter is terrific. 2045 01:22:24,982 --> 01:22:27,024 And I adore her. 2046 01:22:27,025 --> 01:22:28,025 She's wonderful. 2047 01:22:28,026 --> 01:22:30,403 To this day, I feel guilty. 2048 01:22:30,404 --> 01:22:33,739 [ringing, indistinct chatter] 2049 01:22:33,740 --> 01:22:36,033 CREW MEMBER: Are we ready? 2050 01:22:36,034 --> 01:22:38,286 [indistinct chatter] 2051 01:22:38,287 --> 01:22:40,413 CYNTHIA: Who's your real mother? 2052 01:22:40,414 --> 01:22:41,539 - Barbara. 2053 01:22:41,540 --> 01:22:43,833 CYNTHIA: Jackie, Barbara's daughter, 2054 01:22:43,834 --> 01:22:46,586 was about as different from her mom 2055 01:22:46,587 --> 01:22:48,463 as it would have been possible to be. 2056 01:22:48,464 --> 01:22:51,507 Jackie never wanted the spotlight. 2057 01:22:51,508 --> 01:22:54,010 So when I got a phone call from Barbara 2058 01:22:54,011 --> 01:22:55,803 saying she wanted me to interview Jackie, 2059 01:22:55,804 --> 01:22:57,221 I was really stunned. 2060 01:22:57,222 --> 01:22:59,390 The more we can forget 2061 01:22:59,391 --> 01:23:01,350 that the rest of these people are here, 2062 01:23:01,351 --> 01:23:03,811 the more we can just talk the way we would really talk... 2063 01:23:03,812 --> 01:23:05,771 - Yeah. - The better this will be. 2064 01:23:05,772 --> 01:23:08,024 It was going to be a special on adoption. 2065 01:23:08,025 --> 01:23:09,859 Barbara knew I was adopted. 2066 01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:11,652 - Why does she look washed out? 2067 01:23:11,653 --> 01:23:14,071 CREW MEMBER: Because we're still correcting the pictures. 2068 01:23:14,072 --> 01:23:15,364 BARBARA: That's better. 2069 01:23:15,365 --> 01:23:16,616 CYNTHIA: It was nerve-racking, 2070 01:23:16,617 --> 01:23:18,618 because Barbara was the boss. 2071 01:23:18,619 --> 01:23:20,286 BARBARA: No, let me ask the two of you. 2072 01:23:20,287 --> 01:23:21,412 - All right, it's your show. 2073 01:23:21,413 --> 01:23:23,289 I had Barbara sitting right there 2074 01:23:23,290 --> 01:23:26,626 as I'm talking to Jackie right there, and... 2075 01:23:26,627 --> 01:23:29,212 I could feel her presence. 2076 01:23:29,213 --> 01:23:30,630 What was harder, 2077 01:23:30,631 --> 01:23:34,008 being adopted or being the child of a famous woman? 2078 01:23:34,009 --> 01:23:37,053 - Oh, being the child of a famous woman, hands down. 2079 01:23:37,054 --> 01:23:38,262 Hands down. 2080 01:23:38,263 --> 01:23:40,556 CYNTHIA: Because? JACKIE: Because-- 2081 01:23:40,557 --> 01:23:43,309 and this is where I think the adoption came into play-- 2082 01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:46,229 I mean, I could be the bum down there 2083 01:23:46,230 --> 01:23:48,564 on the street corner's child. 2084 01:23:48,565 --> 01:23:50,399 That is not unrealistic. 2085 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:52,318 And here I am today, 2086 01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:54,695 made up, dressed up, and it's interesting, 2087 01:23:54,696 --> 01:23:59,116 because it's almost like I was pasted into this world. 2088 01:23:59,117 --> 01:24:01,869 And yet, I want to be-- 2089 01:24:01,870 --> 01:24:02,995 I am-- 2090 01:24:02,996 --> 01:24:04,956 I mean, I don't want to be-- I am so regular. 2091 01:24:04,957 --> 01:24:07,291 CYNTHIA: Part of the unarticulated issue is, 2092 01:24:07,292 --> 01:24:09,877 Barbara wanted to live at the top of the food chain, 2093 01:24:09,878 --> 01:24:12,463 and Jackie wasn't a competitive person. 2094 01:24:12,464 --> 01:24:15,383 Did you ever, as a child, 2095 01:24:15,384 --> 01:24:19,053 even in anger, say to her, "You're not my real mother"? 2096 01:24:19,054 --> 01:24:20,304 - Yes, once. 2097 01:24:20,305 --> 01:24:22,307 But I was a pretty bad child. 2098 01:24:23,308 --> 01:24:25,977 JACKIE: So I did once, and I felt pretty bad about it. 2099 01:24:25,978 --> 01:24:28,854 CYNTHIA: Have you ever said that you were sorry? 2100 01:24:28,855 --> 01:24:30,940 - I've said I'm sorry for so many things... 2101 01:24:30,941 --> 01:24:33,359 [laughs] 2102 01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,945 For putting through all that torture. 2103 01:24:35,946 --> 01:24:38,155 [laughs] 2104 01:24:38,156 --> 01:24:40,157 That's--it's part of it. It's all part of it. 2105 01:24:40,158 --> 01:24:42,535 I was sorry for my whole teenage years. 2106 01:24:42,536 --> 01:24:44,078 It was awful. 2107 01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,247 CYNTHIA: I just thought Jackie was wonderful-- 2108 01:24:46,248 --> 01:24:49,500 very loving towards Barbara, even though... 2109 01:24:49,501 --> 01:24:51,502 I knew that she and her mother 2110 01:24:51,503 --> 01:24:53,254 had had a really rough relationship 2111 01:24:53,255 --> 01:24:54,839 when she was an adolescent. 2112 01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:56,507 Did we do what you wanted? 2113 01:24:56,508 --> 01:24:58,259 BARBARA: Perfect, perfect, perfect! 2114 01:24:58,260 --> 01:25:01,929 [soft music] 2115 01:25:01,930 --> 01:25:03,848 Oh, wow. 2116 01:25:03,849 --> 01:25:06,559 [laughter] 2117 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:08,227 CYNTHIA: As she got older, I think 2118 01:25:08,228 --> 01:25:11,564 Barbara felt that the relationship was shaky. 2119 01:25:11,565 --> 01:25:13,524 She didn't tell me enough of the facts 2120 01:25:13,525 --> 01:25:15,985 to make me understand why she felt that way, 2121 01:25:15,986 --> 01:25:18,195 but it seemed to me 2122 01:25:18,196 --> 01:25:20,781 that she felt... 2123 01:25:20,782 --> 01:25:23,784 that she and Jackie had fallen out again. 2124 01:25:23,785 --> 01:25:27,788 ♪ ♪ 2125 01:25:27,789 --> 01:25:30,792 [indistinct chatter] 2126 01:25:34,755 --> 01:25:37,715 BARBARA: Look, are there times when I look at people-- 2127 01:25:37,716 --> 01:25:39,175 I have a friend, for example, 2128 01:25:39,176 --> 01:25:42,595 who's got 4 children and 11 grandchildren. 2129 01:25:42,596 --> 01:25:44,347 She says, "Look at your life." 2130 01:25:44,348 --> 01:25:46,349 And I said, "Look at your life, 2131 01:25:46,350 --> 01:25:48,517 I mean, how rich you are." 2132 01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:52,688 4 children, 11 grandchildren-- that's richness. 2133 01:25:52,689 --> 01:25:55,483 But I don't have that. I didn't take that path. 2134 01:25:55,484 --> 01:26:00,112 KATIE: I felt like she neglected her personal life 2135 01:26:00,113 --> 01:26:04,033 and poured so much into her work life 2136 01:26:04,034 --> 01:26:06,035 that I'm not sure 2137 01:26:06,036 --> 01:26:09,038 she was a truly happy person. 2138 01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:11,207 And I remember thinking, 2139 01:26:11,208 --> 01:26:15,086 I want to make sure that I have a family, 2140 01:26:15,087 --> 01:26:16,587 that... 2141 01:26:16,588 --> 01:26:19,048 I don't just have a big job. 2142 01:26:19,049 --> 01:26:22,593 And I always got the sense that Barbara wishes 2143 01:26:22,594 --> 01:26:26,347 she had paid more attention to that. 2144 01:26:26,348 --> 01:26:28,808 - I never got the sense from talking to her 2145 01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:31,268 that there was one absolute love of her life. 2146 01:26:31,269 --> 01:26:33,437 Her job was the love of her life. 2147 01:26:33,438 --> 01:26:35,314 I mean, when she would glow, 2148 01:26:35,315 --> 01:26:39,402 she didn't glow talking about the men in her life. 2149 01:26:39,403 --> 01:26:42,321 She would glow talking about creating The View. 2150 01:26:42,322 --> 01:26:46,659 She was as driven a person as I've ever met. 2151 01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:49,495 - As a matter of fact, I talked to David Axelrod 2152 01:26:49,496 --> 01:26:51,831 and never would go over your head. 2153 01:26:51,832 --> 01:26:55,835 When the president was on in July, 2154 01:26:55,836 --> 01:26:57,378 I said, we'd love to do something. 2155 01:26:57,379 --> 01:26:59,839 OPRAH: I remember having a conversation with her 2156 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,092 when they were canceling the prime-time specials, 2157 01:27:03,093 --> 01:27:04,593 and she was saying, 2158 01:27:04,594 --> 01:27:06,470 "Well, no, we just can't get the numbers anymore." 2159 01:27:06,471 --> 01:27:08,472 I think that was really hard for her. 2160 01:27:08,473 --> 01:27:12,852 There really is no place for a Barbara Walters... 2161 01:27:12,853 --> 01:27:14,937 interview now 2162 01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,231 because everybody does their own interviews. 2163 01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:19,108 Everybody's on Instagram. 2164 01:27:19,109 --> 01:27:21,193 Everybody's on social media. 2165 01:27:21,194 --> 01:27:22,903 - Is everybody in position? 2166 01:27:22,904 --> 01:27:24,280 Are we all ready? 2167 01:27:24,281 --> 01:27:26,699 OPRAH: Nobody needs an interviewer 2168 01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:29,118 to get them to tell the story anymore, 2169 01:27:29,119 --> 01:27:31,120 because they've already told it. 2170 01:27:31,121 --> 01:27:32,663 CREW MEMBER: We have some. - Thank you. 2171 01:27:32,664 --> 01:27:35,541 ANDY: Barbara Walters was one of the most trusted people 2172 01:27:35,542 --> 01:27:37,835 on television. 2173 01:27:37,836 --> 01:27:39,086 Times have changed. 2174 01:27:39,087 --> 01:27:41,672 There won't be that one person anymore. 2175 01:27:41,673 --> 01:27:43,299 CREW MEMBER: Okay, we're just going to roll tape. 2176 01:27:43,300 --> 01:27:45,676 Your mic is fine, Barbara. - Okay. 2177 01:27:45,677 --> 01:27:48,095 After 25 years-- 2178 01:27:48,096 --> 01:27:50,097 Ah, blech, let me take that again. 2179 01:27:50,098 --> 01:27:51,891 CREW MEMBER: No problem. 2180 01:27:51,892 --> 01:27:55,102 - Lucy, after 25 years of doing a weekly series, 2181 01:27:55,103 --> 01:27:58,481 you stopped in 1974. 2182 01:27:58,482 --> 01:27:59,940 Then what was it like? 2183 01:27:59,941 --> 01:28:01,358 You got up in the morning, 2184 01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:03,319 and you didn't have to run to work. 2185 01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,363 - Traumatic. Very. 2186 01:28:06,364 --> 01:28:08,282 Well, for the first three or four months, 2187 01:28:08,283 --> 01:28:10,451 I was--I was in limbo. 2188 01:28:10,452 --> 01:28:13,078 I was just... in shock. 2189 01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:16,665 There wasn't anything I wanted to do but go back to work. 2190 01:28:16,666 --> 01:28:19,043 REPORTER: After a lifetime of groundbreaking interviews, 2191 01:28:19,044 --> 01:28:21,879 ABC's legendary Barbara Walters 2192 01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:23,506 is stepping down. 2193 01:28:23,507 --> 01:28:26,550 - She wasn't going to retire-- 2194 01:28:26,551 --> 01:28:29,345 I was about to say "voluntarily," but it's not-- 2195 01:28:29,346 --> 01:28:31,597 She had no plans to retire, ever. 2196 01:28:31,598 --> 01:28:33,349 - It's--it's been wonderful, 2197 01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:36,143 and I have very... 2198 01:28:36,144 --> 01:28:39,313 mixed feelings, very bittersweet feelings 2199 01:28:39,314 --> 01:28:41,774 because I don't know how you say goodbye 2200 01:28:41,775 --> 01:28:45,402 to something like 50 years in television. 2201 01:28:45,403 --> 01:28:48,030 I just did the David Letterman show, 2202 01:28:48,031 --> 01:28:50,991 and we were whispering to each other. 2203 01:28:50,992 --> 01:28:52,535 He said, "I don't really want to leave." 2204 01:28:52,536 --> 01:28:54,203 I said, "I don't really want to leave." 2205 01:28:54,204 --> 01:28:55,996 [laughter] 2206 01:28:55,997 --> 01:28:58,958 CYNTHIA: The View had extended her shelf life 2207 01:28:58,959 --> 01:29:00,751 for, you know, a good decade. 2208 01:29:00,752 --> 01:29:05,297 But, finally, with tremendous anger-- 2209 01:29:05,298 --> 01:29:06,757 not at anyone 2210 01:29:06,758 --> 01:29:09,093 but at the fact that... 2211 01:29:09,094 --> 01:29:11,887 it was inevitably going to end-- 2212 01:29:11,888 --> 01:29:14,098 the dimming of the light... 2213 01:29:14,099 --> 01:29:17,393 angry at the dimming of the light. 2214 01:29:17,394 --> 01:29:19,937 - Let's raise a glass-- 2215 01:29:19,938 --> 01:29:22,231 Barbara Walters. ALL: Barbara! 2216 01:29:22,232 --> 01:29:23,607 [applause] - Thank you. 2217 01:29:23,608 --> 01:29:25,818 - Showbiz, the news was her life. 2218 01:29:25,819 --> 01:29:27,444 It's not like she was home, you know, 2219 01:29:27,445 --> 01:29:29,071 doing papier-mâché puppets. 2220 01:29:29,072 --> 01:29:32,199 [chuckles] You know, she really didn't have a hobby. 2221 01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:34,034 - People keep asking me what my hobbies are, 2222 01:29:34,035 --> 01:29:35,452 and I think, who has time for hobbies? 2223 01:29:35,453 --> 01:29:37,371 My work is my hobby. - Right. No, exactly. 2224 01:29:37,372 --> 01:29:38,914 If we love our work, 2225 01:29:38,915 --> 01:29:41,375 then perhaps we don't have to have hobbies. 2226 01:29:41,376 --> 01:29:42,543 CHRIS: When she got older 2227 01:29:42,544 --> 01:29:44,295 and was living in that apartment, 2228 01:29:44,296 --> 01:29:46,171 it must have been awful for her. 2229 01:29:46,172 --> 01:29:49,592 You know, she wanted to go out and meet a murderer. 2230 01:29:49,593 --> 01:29:51,468 She wanted to interview them. 2231 01:29:51,469 --> 01:29:53,137 She wanted the sport of it. 2232 01:29:53,138 --> 01:29:55,306 That's why she woke up every day. 2233 01:29:55,307 --> 01:29:57,600 - We're all set? CREW MEMBER: Yes. 2234 01:29:57,601 --> 01:30:00,603 BETTE: She spoke to the leaders of the Free World, 2235 01:30:00,604 --> 01:30:04,148 the unfree world-- I mean, power brokers. 2236 01:30:04,149 --> 01:30:06,859 I don't really know people like that. 2237 01:30:06,860 --> 01:30:10,696 And I think hers was one of the biggest lives 2238 01:30:10,697 --> 01:30:14,283 that had been lived up till that time. 2239 01:30:14,284 --> 01:30:18,454 CINDY: If you went into her house... 2240 01:30:18,455 --> 01:30:21,415 every picture was Barbara Walters with this, 2241 01:30:21,416 --> 01:30:24,251 Barbara Walters with that. 2242 01:30:24,252 --> 01:30:27,463 Probably Barbara Walters with George Washington. 2243 01:30:27,464 --> 01:30:28,839 I don't know. 2244 01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,133 She knew them all. 2245 01:30:32,928 --> 01:30:34,678 - Push down your tie. 2246 01:30:34,679 --> 01:30:36,513 What kept you going? 2247 01:30:36,514 --> 01:30:39,975 - Drive, some crazed drive, knowing I was right. 2248 01:30:39,976 --> 01:30:42,394 DAVID: Television news, it was Imperial Rome. 2249 01:30:42,395 --> 01:30:44,813 Infinite resources, 2250 01:30:44,814 --> 01:30:48,108 the ability to get anyone, talk to anyone. 2251 01:30:48,109 --> 01:30:50,194 She was the epicenter of that. 2252 01:30:50,195 --> 01:30:52,321 - You have everything the way you wanted it? 2253 01:30:52,322 --> 01:30:54,198 MARTIN: You'd be hard-pressed to find 2254 01:30:54,199 --> 01:30:56,367 anything close to the combination 2255 01:30:56,368 --> 01:30:59,161 of intelligence and grit... 2256 01:30:59,162 --> 01:31:01,997 - Just do a cutaway. Then just do a cut--fine. 2257 01:31:01,998 --> 01:31:05,292 MARTIN: And understanding of the medium and of people. 2258 01:31:05,293 --> 01:31:07,086 BARBARA: Whatever little success I've had, 2259 01:31:07,087 --> 01:31:08,754 you said, I did it myself. 2260 01:31:08,755 --> 01:31:11,715 I thought it out, and I listened to my instincts. 2261 01:31:11,716 --> 01:31:14,301 BOB: She wasn't modeled after anyone else. 2262 01:31:14,302 --> 01:31:15,803 - The night has finally come for me, and... 2263 01:31:15,804 --> 01:31:17,513 BOB: I think that's actually something 2264 01:31:17,514 --> 01:31:18,764 people don't realize. 2265 01:31:18,765 --> 01:31:22,518 She is a role model, but she created the model. 2266 01:31:22,519 --> 01:31:24,812 - The fact is that you are the touchstone, 2267 01:31:24,813 --> 01:31:26,772 and I don't know a single woman in this business 2268 01:31:26,773 --> 01:31:28,565 who doesn't come to you at some time or the other 2269 01:31:28,566 --> 01:31:30,234 and say, "Help, help." 2270 01:31:30,235 --> 01:31:31,777 - Well, this will be cut out, so thanks a lot. 2271 01:31:31,778 --> 01:31:33,195 - This will be cut out. Right. [laughter] 2272 01:31:33,196 --> 01:31:35,948 - I need a--an ending. 2273 01:31:35,949 --> 01:31:40,119 I would like a nice, warm, sympathetic ending. 2274 01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,122 [cheers and applause] 2275 01:31:43,123 --> 01:31:46,083 [soft music] 2276 01:31:46,084 --> 01:31:51,880 ♪ ♪ 2277 01:31:51,881 --> 01:31:53,674 OPRAH: We all proudly stand 2278 01:31:53,675 --> 01:31:55,926 on your shoulders, Barbara Walters, 2279 01:31:55,927 --> 01:31:57,136 as we honor you. 2280 01:31:57,137 --> 01:32:00,431 Please welcome Diane Sawyer, 2281 01:32:00,432 --> 01:32:03,183 Robin Roberts, Lara Spencer, 2282 01:32:03,184 --> 01:32:07,187 Elizabeth Vargas, Amy Robach, 2283 01:32:07,188 --> 01:32:10,607 Deborah Roberts, JuJu Chang, 2284 01:32:10,608 --> 01:32:12,693 Katie Couric, Savannah... 2285 01:32:12,694 --> 01:32:14,403 LORI: And that day when 2286 01:32:14,404 --> 01:32:19,074 they brought in all of those women to salute her 2287 01:32:19,075 --> 01:32:22,411 was the most touching, beautiful day 2288 01:32:22,412 --> 01:32:23,871 that I could remember. 2289 01:32:23,872 --> 01:32:25,622 It was bittersweet. 2290 01:32:25,623 --> 01:32:28,876 OPRAH: And I think she knew after a time 2291 01:32:28,877 --> 01:32:32,379 that what she had done helped open the door 2292 01:32:32,380 --> 01:32:34,381 for women like myself 2293 01:32:34,382 --> 01:32:38,177 and every other woman who crossed that threshold. 2294 01:32:38,178 --> 01:32:41,722 KATIE: Barbara went through hell getting to where she was, 2295 01:32:41,723 --> 01:32:44,850 and I think she wanted to be recognized for that. 2296 01:32:44,851 --> 01:32:47,311 And I hope she felt our appreciation, 2297 01:32:47,312 --> 01:32:49,021 because I think it was really there. 2298 01:32:49,022 --> 01:32:51,815 [cheers and applause, indistinct chatter] 2299 01:32:51,816 --> 01:32:54,026 - I'm so proud of you. 2300 01:32:54,027 --> 01:32:56,612 You're back at the anchor, and you made it. 2301 01:32:56,613 --> 01:32:59,281 I just want to say, this is my-- 2302 01:32:59,282 --> 01:33:01,909 oh, this is my legacy. 2303 01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:05,329 These are my legacy, and I thank you, all of you. 2304 01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:07,247 [cheers and applause] 2305 01:33:07,248 --> 01:33:09,666 How do you hope to be remembered? 2306 01:33:09,667 --> 01:33:12,544 When women say, "Oh, you paved the way," 2307 01:33:12,545 --> 01:33:13,962 I didn't do it deliberately. 2308 01:33:13,963 --> 01:33:15,380 I wasn't waving a flag. 2309 01:33:15,381 --> 01:33:17,424 I wasn't stomping my feet. 2310 01:33:17,425 --> 01:33:21,512 Mostly, I just worked and didn't whine. 2311 01:33:21,513 --> 01:33:23,472 But what a reward that is, 2312 01:33:23,473 --> 01:33:26,183 to look at all of the women now on television, 2313 01:33:26,184 --> 01:33:28,769 in front of the cameras, behind the cameras, 2314 01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,687 and to feel-- not just in television-- 2315 01:33:30,688 --> 01:33:33,148 but to feel, maybe... 2316 01:33:33,149 --> 01:33:35,484 ♪ ♪ 2317 01:33:35,485 --> 01:33:37,694 Maybe I made a difference. 2318 01:33:37,695 --> 01:33:42,491 ♪ ♪ 2319 01:33:42,492 --> 01:33:43,909 That's my ending, folks. 2320 01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:45,911 I don't need anything else. 2321 01:33:45,912 --> 01:33:52,877 ♪ ♪