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Downloaded from
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Hello, and welcome to this commentary
track for Black Rabbit, White Rabbit.

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My name is Tori Vitenza.

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I am a programmer for Brooklyn Horror Film
Festival.

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I'm also a writer and critic.

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You can find my bylines with Movie John,
Dread Central, Ghouls Mag, Certified

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Forgotten, and Horror Press, amongst
others.

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And you can find my physical media
contributions at Second Sight,

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Vinegar Syndrome, Arrow, and 88 Films.

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So, Black Rabbit,
White Rabbit is the 2025

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release from Iranian
filmmaker Sharam Makhri.

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And this is his fifth feature film.

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Although he is an Iranian filmmaker,
this was actually filmed in Tajikistan.

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And ultimately, this was the
entry for the Academy Awards

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that the country sent in for
Best International Feature Film.

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It's not too uncommon for Iranian
filmmakers to work outside of the country,

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especially considering a lot of the
upheaval within that country that's been

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happening and a lot of the strict
censorship laws in Iran.

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Now, this is a really
interesting film for me as

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someone who's a little bit
newer to Sharam's work.

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The film is described as a mystery
thriller.

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And it didn't necessarily feel that way to
me when I first started it.

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Especially considering the humor that the
film really has.

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It was not the type of mystery thriller I
really expected.

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And as I explored more of his work and was
prepping for this commentary, I really

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began to understand the puzzle box
structure that Sharam goes for with most

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of his films, which
really lends itself well to

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unveiling a story for the
people that are viewing it.

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So, it's definitely a different kind of
mystery thriller.

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It's also just a very interesting film.

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It's a beautifully crafted film.

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Even watching this opening
scene here, I think the

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colors, the blue and the
yellow are just so vibrant.

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And watching some of
his earlier work, you can

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definitely tell it was a
little bit more low budget.

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So, really interesting watching that
compared to his latest feature.

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There's a very distinct feeling
watching his films, especially

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after watching multiple
back-to-back in preparation.

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For the commentary, there's this dreamlike
feeling to all of them.

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And in some ways, you need to turn off
part of your brain that really wants to be

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grappling for answers
and just be present and sit

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with what you're viewing
and how it plays out.

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What you feel and conjure
watching it feels much more important

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than trying to dissect and
understand every part of it.

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Ultimately, that feels
less interesting and more

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difficult because his films
play into magical realism.

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So, while much of his work is steeped in
and inspired by real life, there's a

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playfulness and magic that is different
from what we know in the real world.

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So, trying to apply the logic of our real
worlds can be a bit fruitless.

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And his work really leaves a lot for
audiences to infer on their own.

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I was reading an article
about what reactions were

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like to this when it was
making its festival run.

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And people seemed perplexed by it,
but also very engaged with the material.

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Although they said that one of the most
common questions that people asked first.

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during the Q&A's for this was,
what is this movie even about?

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I think it's something that's hard for
people to do, to turn off their brains.

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But it's often one of the more enjoyable
ways to watch a film, in my opinion.

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Just let everything happening wash over you
and really be present with what's going on.

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And as you watch more of Sharam's work,
there's a lot of similarities and

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similarities in the overarching style and
structure.

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But all of them feel really different.

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This one included.

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Each feels completely unique.

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And I think Black Rabbit, White Rabbit
takes a lot of the ideas that he's been

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working with, a lot of the playing with
structure, and some of the thematic

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elements that we'll get into more as this
goes on.

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But really, each one has a totally
different tone, production design,

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mood, and all play key roles in the world
that he's creating.

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And each feels totally
unique, even though it has

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this puzzle-like structure,
which is much like M.C.

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Escher's work, which is
what was an inspiration for this

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film and several of the
other films in his filmography.

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He discusses this process and talks a lot
about how working on his films is a lot

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like a theater stage, which makes a lot of
sense when you think about it,

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considering that his longtime collaborator
and partner, Naseem Ahmedpour,

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comes from a theater background.

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So you can really feel some of her
influence on different ideas that Sharam

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was already working on before they started
collaborating.

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When discussing his process, they talk
about how you have a simple setup and then

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you keep adding to it, layer by layer,
as though, quote, we Photoshop several

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moving images on top of each other and
then remove the distance between these

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images and watch all the different images
at the same time.

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Because of the one-shot structure that we
see, and a lot of his work, diving into

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how he prepares for films is really
interesting.

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Instead of storyboards, they
make a 3D model where the

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cast and crew can have
an aerial view of the action.

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And from there, they can envision the
placement and movement of actors,

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kind of like a Dollhouse, at least how I
picture it.

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They sit around the model and determine
the location of the action.

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The actors would make changes as needed and
determine the camera movements and so on.

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Another similarity between
the method of filmmaking and

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theater is between the rehearsal
and recording he talks about.

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There's an interval where
they experiment with trial

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and error and make small
changes along the way.

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But everything, every little detail,
has to come into context.

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And that's a big consideration.

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And while sometimes the plot itself might
feel a little loose, and it's kind of hard

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to get your grounding as to what's going
on, because of the cyclical time loop

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nature of his films, you
can really sense how

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expertly all of these
elements are put together.

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The main woman on screen now is one of the
leads.

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She plays a woman named Sarah.

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And this is an esteemed Tajik actor named
Hasti Mohammeh.

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I really love the look and design of this
house.

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You can see elements of some different M
.C.

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Escher inspirations all over the place.

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You can see elements of some different M
.C.

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Painting in the background.

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There's also so many
different paintings and

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artwork of butterflies
all over the place.

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Which ties into one of
Escher's more famous

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works, Metamorphosis
and Metamorphosis II.

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And then, of course, we see a lot of
weaponry as well.

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And I think that opening
quote that we saw about, like,

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why would you mount the gun
if you weren't going to use it?

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Plays a really big role in this.

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Neshera Makhri was born in 1978.

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He worked as a film critic
for Film Magazine, which

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is one of the more prominent
arts magazines in Iran.

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Also lectured at film schools and taught
filmmaking throughout Iran.

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And also served on the
executive board for screening

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art and experience
feature films in Tehran.

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And also served on the
executive board for screening

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Which is the capital of Iran.

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Many of the staples of his work that we
see here and throughout his filmography

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are things like blurring the lines between
reality and fiction, doppelgangers,

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stories within stories.

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A focus on filmmaking.

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And these tend to get a little meta.

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Sharam even kind of making himself this
ghostly figure.

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In the background.

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Always talked about once we get to the
portions of the film that are on the film set.

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It's really interesting looking into some
of his influences.

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When I was preparing for this,
I found the BFI Sight and Sound Greatest

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Film list of all time that he put
together.

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And some of the ones listed were films
like Citizen Kane, Vertigo.

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He talks about eight nights.

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One and a half.

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And quotes that the film is as much about
real life as it is about cinema.

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And it's as much about living in the dream
as about trying to give it up.

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Which feels like it applies in many ways
to this film as well.

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Another one is Monholland Drive.

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Which I love the idea
of Lynch potentially

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being an influence in
some of the work he does.

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I think Sharam in a different way.

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That's similar.

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Tows that line between like whimsy.

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Things being really sentimental.

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But also not necessarily hiding away from
some of the darkness of the world.

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Sharam was a film lover from an early age.

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Talked about how his father was a
cinephile and collected.

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But at the time growing up.

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He said it was during those initial years
of the Iranian revolution.

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So actual access to fictional media and
storytelling was really limited.

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And the city where he grew up.

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He said there were no films being shown in
cinemas at the time.

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So for someone that had such a passion.

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And came into a family that had that
passion.

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There was a little bit of a void.

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In terms of what media he actually had
access to.

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And most of that growing up was just what
he could see on TV.

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Which tended to be Japanese movies that
were dubbed or television series.

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And then he said later when video became
available in the country.

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The majority were American films.

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And you can see a lot of American genre
films throughout his filmography.

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Being big influences.

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Now Sharam and Nassim have been working
together for several years.

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They write the screenplays together.

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And then Makri does the directing.

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And their professional relationship began
with the film Fish and Cat.

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Which you can find actually on Deaf
Crocodile's other release of Makri's work.

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The Time Bending Mysteries of Sharam
Makri.

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The two continued working together with
his films Invasion.

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As well as Careless Crime.

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Also included on that same box set.

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And the two are around the same age.

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Grew up in the same generation.

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So sort of had similar experiences when it
came to what media they had access to.

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But as I mentioned Nassim has a theater
background.

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She's a theater director, dramatist and
screenwriter.

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And she co-founded the theater group Don
Quixote in Tehran in 2003.

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For which she's written and directed
several plays.

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In 2018 she won the
award for best play script

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at the Toronto International
Short Film Festival.

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And because of the strict government laws
on both women and performing arts.

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Recent plays she's done such as The Report
on the Judgment Day.

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Had to be performed in a private
underground hall in the city's capital.

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She said her interest in theater did not
stem from watching plays.

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As there were no real plays being
performed at the time in her hometown.

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She said she loved literature and wanted
to study creative writing.

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But universities did not offer those
courses.

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So theater and playwriting ended up being
the closest thing.

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And I definitely like the idea of that
theatrical background.

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Playing a role into the overall structure
of these films.

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I think a lot of times when I think of
movies that feel like theater experiences.

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They're often these really small contained
worlds.

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And don't feel as expansive as the ones
that Sharam's creating.

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Especially in Black Rabbit, White Rabbit.

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We just keep seeing more and more
elements.

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So it's really impressive.

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The way that they're able to...
construct these huge productions.

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That have so many different elements going
on.

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In terms of Sharam's other films in his
filmography.

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There's the film Careless Crime that I
mentioned.

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Which is about four people who decide to
set fire to a cinema.

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Packed with people.

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A lot of his films get recognition at
different film festivals.

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So this won the Golden Bassatto
Screenwriter Award.

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For the Independent Critics Association in
Venice.

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Careless Crime also won the Silver Hugo at
the Chicago Film Festival.

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And one of the comparisons for that one is
Hitchcock's Vertigo.

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Which was listed in his top films of all
time.

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And that one in particular is about the
burning of the rec cinema.

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Which was a large event that happened
really close to his birthday.

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The year he was born.

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There's also the film Invasion from 2017.

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Which is a science fiction detective slash
vampire story.

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It screened at the 68th Berlin Film
Festival.

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And was nominated for the Teddy Award.

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Citing inspirations like this one.

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The film Liquid Sky.

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Which is not one I hear spoken about very
frequently in larger film circles.

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So it's pretty cool to hear that as a
reference here.

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And the film is this interrogation.

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But the way that the
police do interrogations is by

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acting out the events of the
crime over and over again.

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So you have this acting out different
elements.

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Sort of a play happening before you.

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With this very similar structure.

231
00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:40,480
That the two of them have been working
with for some time.

232
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,940
Invasion was their most complex film.

233
00:19:44,140 --> 00:19:46,720
Because of its structure and also the
mathematics.

234
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,040
It was structured based on a mathematic
equation.

235
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:55,860
Which I don't know how you based an entire
film off a mathematical equation.

236
00:19:56,420 --> 00:20:01,260
But because of that they really limited
what they were allowed to do in scenes.

237
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:04,900
And because of that some scenes.

238
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,660
That maybe were intended to be shorter.

239
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:07,860
Had to be longer.

240
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,040
Or vice versa.

241
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:13,880
So she says that it looked like a rigid
film.

242
00:20:14,780 --> 00:20:19,500
She recalls festival selectors describing
it as an impenetrable cube.

243
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,000
And because that ended up being one of
their more challenging films.

244
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,540
They would discuss fine details.

245
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:29,820
And Nassim would suggest something.

246
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,300
And then Makri would come back saying.

247
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:38,120
The film structure doesn't allow for us to
focus more on that character.

248
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,620
Or make that moment longer.

249
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,020
Everything needs to fit within the
equation.

250
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:46,240
And I find that interesting.

251
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:54,980
Because there is that idea of having a lot
of rules or guidelines.

252
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:58,900
And how that can foster a different type
of creativity.

253
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,740
And I think it relates a little bit to
Iranian cinema.

254
00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:08,140
In the way that there are directors like
Shahram.

255
00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:10,420
Who have been making films in their
country.

256
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:14,640
Really profound films that deal with
really interesting subject material.

257
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,400
But nonetheless.

258
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,640
Because they have so many restrictions.

259
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,880
They have to show things in a certain way.

260
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,400
Do things in a certain way.

261
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,300
And he puts even more restrictions on
himself.

262
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,500
With some of these larger structures that
he creates.

263
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:37,980
And that whole film centers around a
disease that is affecting all of humanity.

264
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,180
And then there's another disease within
this world.

265
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,860
That specifically affects only authority
figures.

266
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,980
Which again feels very political.

267
00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:53,220
It's interesting that it came out in 2017.

268
00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:00,760
Because it has so many elements that we
really come to deal with.

269
00:22:00,940 --> 00:22:02,320
During COVID-19.

270
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:03,640
Just three years later.

271
00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:08,100
And they constantly talk about this
border.

272
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,860
That people are moving in between.

273
00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:13,880
Which as that movie plays on.

274
00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:15,980
Really feels like it's talking about
immigration.

275
00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:17,640
People leaving the country.

276
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:19,060
And that sort of thing.

277
00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:22,500
Especially when we talk about Iranian
filmmakers.

278
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,320
Who end up leaving the country.

279
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,320
Because of limited artistic freedom.

280
00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:30,140
I also think it's really interesting.

281
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,920
Because there are a lot of queer elements
to this.

282
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,480
Including some like gender play.

283
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,060
Which at least from the information I know
about Iranian cinema.

284
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,020
It seems very interesting that he's able
to discuss that.

285
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,980
I want to build this place.

286
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,420
And come live in it.

287
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:50,980
I want to live with my grandfather over
there.

288
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,100
I'm sick.

289
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,320
Come here.

290
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:54,880
Yes, we are sick.

291
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,340
All of our bodies are empty.

292
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,960
Do you want to get a divorce from your
grandfather?

293
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,280
Not right now.

294
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:02,380
No.

295
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,980
Let's live separately.

296
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,360
Another one of Shiram's films that I
mentioned.

297
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,420
Is Fishing Cat.

298
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:13,960
Which was from 2013.

299
00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:17,980
And is when he and Nassim began working
together.

300
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,220
And it follows a group of students.

301
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:23,920
That go to this fairly remote part of the
country.

302
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,580
For this kite flying event.

303
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,180
During the winter solstice.

304
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:29,340
But unbeknownst to them.

305
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,060
Their camp starts being hunted.

306
00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:34,900
By these three cooks.

307
00:23:34,940 --> 00:23:36,360
Who work at a nearby restaurant.

308
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,020
Although it's not a very violent film.

309
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,920
It was inspired by 1970s slashers.

310
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,300
Like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

311
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,580
And has that same cannibal element to it.

312
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,860
And apparently it topped the box office in
Iran.

313
00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:52,700
When it came out.

314
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,660
Which is not something you hear a lot.

315
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:57,300
About genre films in general.

316
00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:00,000
But it's really interesting.

317
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,040
Seeing him create a slasher film.

318
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:05,860
That's purely indie art house.

319
00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:08,880
Without those violent elements.

320
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:11,140
All of that is sort of happening.

321
00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:12,680
In the backdrop of the film.

322
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,100
Going back to some of those political
elements.

323
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,580
You have a lot of like the urban.

324
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Versus rural populations.

325
00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:21,900
Something that is also.

326
00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:25,480
I think something you see in a lot of 70s.

327
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:26,980
American grindhouse films.

328
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:28,860
Like I Spit on Your Grave.

329
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:30,960
And some of the exploitation films.

330
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:31,740
Of the time.

331
00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:32,040
But it's really interesting.

332
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,000
And then there's also that element.

333
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,180
Of the old.

334
00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:36,600
Feeding off the young.

335
00:24:37,420 --> 00:24:38,420
And I think.

336
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,960
Especially right now in Iran.

337
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,640
When so many young people.

338
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,080
Are fighting against the government.

339
00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:47,440
And engaging in these huge protests.

340
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,340
You really feel.

341
00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:51,260
The generational conflict.

342
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,760
I think we're all like.

343
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,560
Young men fighting each other.

344
00:25:10,620 --> 00:25:11,620
And then you get these.

345
00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:20,620
That when you think.

346
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,780
That in this world.

347
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,320
You don't see anything.

348
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:45,260
You see something.

349
00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:45,280
That you can't.

350
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,280
And the other thing.

351
00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:47,660
Is the sense of.

352
00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:50,390
This is one of the
interviews I found and

353
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:52,900
says that in theater,
we do not have editing.

354
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,310
When you decide on a scene,
you are choosing its destiny

355
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:59,160
and cannot do anything
further during the performance.

356
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,920
She says the same things happen in their
scripts.

357
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,550
They are fixed so that
when you want to change a

358
00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:11,180
location, you have to
rewrite the whole script.

359
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,520
Which to me sounds a little bit maddening.

360
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,020
If you want to change one element,
you have to change multiple elements.

361
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:25,680
But it's clearly something these two
creatives have figured out how to do

362
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,860
together considering how often it's been a
part of their work.

363
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,790
She says we cannot
change the dialogue even

364
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:36,740
because everything has
to be timed so perfectly.

365
00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:03,420
There's a lot of play with doppelgangers
in his work.

366
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,460
So these elements of mistaken identities
and doppelgangers.

367
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,660
Are really interesting.

368
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,600
And feel a little eerie.

369
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,020
You don't get to explore them too too
much.

370
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:18,210
And you don't even necessarily
get answers to some of the

371
00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:22,640
questions you might have about
who these characters really are.

372
00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:26,960
If there is some other person around that
is just like them.

373
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,080
Or if they are that person.

374
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,080
But it brings in the idea of someone else
out there that looks like you.

375
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:34,140
Does your work.

376
00:27:34,140 --> 00:27:36,600
Perhaps there's some sort of replacement.

377
00:27:37,620 --> 00:27:41,220
Feels a little bit like a body snatcher
story in a way.

378
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,710
But at the same time
there could also be that idea

379
00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:48,560
that the character forgot
parts of themselves.

380
00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:52,620
And their identity that have been left
dormant for whatever reason.

381
00:27:53,420 --> 00:27:58,960
And then it also points to the fallibility
of human memory or recall.

382
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,900
And the way it's easy for us to forget.

383
00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:07,580
Or when we play things back in our memory.

384
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,740
We start to equate people.

385
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,920
Maybe who represent similar things.

386
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:13,800
Maybe as the same person.

387
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,800
How many times have I told you?

388
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:46,540
Why are you talking so much?

389
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,840
Come on, say it.

390
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,560
If you don't say anything, it's over.

391
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,120
If you don't leave me alone, why should I
go?

392
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,060
I've forgotten you.

393
00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:02,640
You've left me alone for two weeks.

394
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,000
And I'm talking to this empty man.

395
00:29:11,310 --> 00:29:16,270
It's really interesting seeing
a director work with the

396
00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:21,310
same sort of formatting and
devices across multiple films.

397
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:25,060
There are a lot of
directors that try to explore

398
00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:27,730
a lot of different kinds
of storytelling devices.

399
00:29:28,270 --> 00:29:32,130
And so it's really interesting to see a
director who keeps coming back...

400
00:29:38,390 --> 00:29:46,250
I feel like one of the best recent
examples I have of this is the Japanese

401
00:29:46,250 --> 00:29:54,730
director Shinte Yamaguchi, who deals with
time loops in a different way than Shiran

402
00:29:54,730 --> 00:30:00,550
does, but he deals with this in two films,
Beyond the Infinite Two Minutes from 2020,

403
00:30:00,890 --> 00:30:02,110
which was a lot of work.

404
00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:06,810
It was all shot on an iPhone, as well as
the movie River from 2023.

405
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:12,190
And I just really enjoy
the fact that creatives can

406
00:30:12,190 --> 00:30:15,850
find a way to do this without
feeling overly repetitive.

407
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:23,120
It's interesting, too, looking at
this scene unfold with Saura,

408
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,870
because there's clearly
something sinister here going on.

409
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:29,570
She and her husband have a strained
marriage.

410
00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:36,450
She has been in this accident that perhaps
doesn't seem so much like an accident.

411
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:39,770
And yet there is this whimsy with her.

412
00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:44,250
She's never worrying about the way she
smells under all of her bandages and this

413
00:31:44,250 --> 00:31:49,410
barrier that she creates to figure out how
close she can get to people.

414
00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:54,430
And then there's also this idea that she
can communicate with inanimate objects

415
00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:59,970
that I really love, like when she asks the
door if it can open for her.

416
00:32:00,370 --> 00:32:05,870
And I kind of like when something has so
many different elements playing at once.

417
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:06,930
There's humor.

418
00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:09,370
There's something suspenseful and
sinister.

419
00:32:10,290 --> 00:32:14,650
And then there's also just something
anxiety-inducing about these kinds of

420
00:32:14,650 --> 00:32:18,430
interactions that we're
seeing here with all of

421
00:32:18,430 --> 00:32:21,270
these people being
frustrated with each other.

422
00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:24,970
It really gets my social anxiety going
when I watch things like this.

423
00:32:39,930 --> 00:32:47,530
Ah, my What a filling cover You're.

424
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:56,550
painful right.

425
00:33:04,260 --> 00:33:19,220
I love you Right Really That's All All You.

426
00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:18,830
Now that we get to the next chapter,
I feel like we come into one of the main

427
00:34:18,830 --> 00:34:26,590
settings of Black Rabbit, White Rabbit,
which is this production that's going on.

428
00:34:26,730 --> 00:34:33,650
And this is where it starts to get very
meta, too, as the film is about a director

429
00:34:33,650 --> 00:34:39,840
whose name is Sharam
directing a film outside of his

430
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,570
country while Sharam is
doing the exact same thing.

431
00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:58,180
And I'm just a really big fan of just a
silly little guy like this.

432
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:14,590
You know, his films tend to be a little
bit on the longer side.

433
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:20,530
And I know sometimes
people have difficulty with

434
00:35:20,530 --> 00:35:23,750
films feeling too long
or really taking their time.

435
00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:27,550
I think especially with
a lot of studio films here

436
00:35:27,550 --> 00:35:30,910
in America, we're used
to so much editing as well.

437
00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:35,210
So I think that sometimes
almost helps with the

438
00:35:35,210 --> 00:35:38,410
length of films because
it's constantly moving.

439
00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:41,730
Sometimes the pacing is a little bit
better.

440
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:50,560
So it's really interesting to
see how his films just make

441
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,120
you sit with things and
continuously relive them as well.

442
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:21,520
Now, Abbas was one of his teachers and
really taught mockery a lot.

443
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:24,440
And clearly, the two were close.

444
00:36:24,540 --> 00:36:29,760
In Abbas's last film, 24 Frames,
there's one frame that contains a tree.

445
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,250
And on the tree, he wrote
mockery's name, which

446
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:38,820
he basically took as
him passing the Baton.

447
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,600
He was putting something on his shoulders,
as he said, passing it to him.

448
00:36:44,420 --> 00:36:49,100
And so he, from that
point, tried to pay particular

449
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,780
attention to Abbas
whenever he makes a film.

450
00:36:54,700 --> 00:37:01,220
When talking about his mentor,
Abbas Kiarostami, he similarly follows in

451
00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:04,440
his footsteps by starting to make films
outside of the country.

452
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:10,260
Kiarostami had a desire to make films
about women and romantic relationships

453
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:13,800
under normal circumstances,
which was something that

454
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,360
could never be done if
he stayed in the country.

455
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:24,280
And in turn, we see Sharam working with
that here, especially in Sara's case.

456
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:33,340
We really see that come into play when the
armorer enters, which is here,

457
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,200
Babak Karini.

458
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:41,540
Babak has been in several of his films,
including Fish and Cat, Careless Crime,

459
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:48,080
and one of the more well-known Iranian
films, Separation.

460
00:37:52,510 --> 00:38:01,870
And Babak plays the armorer, so he is here
on set specifically to help with a shot

461
00:38:01,870 --> 00:38:04,890
where they're going to be shooting a live
gun.

462
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:12,210
And continues to talk about the story
about his mentor who taught him,

463
00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:15,870
but died in this tragic way.

464
00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:24,570
You can really feel Makri put in his
relationship with Abbas here.

465
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:30,470
Now, when talking about
the film, Sharam mentions

466
00:38:30,570 --> 00:38:34,650
that Black Rabbit, White
Rabbit is rabbit holes.

467
00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:37,560
It's stories within
stories, constantly

468
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,350
diverging and going
down these different paths.

469
00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:48,090
He also says it's about the mystery of
performance, illusion, as well as truth.

470
00:38:53,060 --> 00:38:58,320
He says the idea at the heart of the script
has to do with the world and my profession.

471
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,360
The world of filmmaking, of cinema.

472
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,860
That sort of world, within a world,
within a world, within a world.

473
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,760
And there's so many good stories to tell
about that.

474
00:39:10,740 --> 00:39:14,240
But he also says at the
same time he loves complex

475
00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:17,040
cinematic structures,
like a non-linear storyline.

476
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,520
And he thinks that meta-films can be great
metaphors.

477
00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:22,380
It can be a good way of working.

478
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,680
So really, it was these two ideas coming
together at the heart of the film.

479
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,860
It's about a filmmaker making a film.

480
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,760
It's about a filmmaker
making a film out of

481
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,240
his country, which is
exactly what he's doing.

482
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,120
And his mentor, Abbas, also played with
really similar ideas.

483
00:39:52,340 --> 00:40:01,000
When talking about filming in Tajikistan,
Sharam mentions that it's still a country

484
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,180
in its infancy when it comes to the film
scene.

485
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,580
And hadn't even really thought about
things like working with extras.

486
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,120
He said that...

487
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,640
During the filmmaking, he has put a lot of
energy towards making sure the extras knew

488
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,750
their places, moved at
the right time, in the right

489
00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:21,860
direction, didn't look at
the camera, and so on.

490
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,390
And he said it was his
biggest nightmare, as well

491
00:40:27,390 --> 00:40:30,680
as one of the most
crucial parts of the film.

492
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:35,950
And when you hear that,
and think about the way that

493
00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:40,300
he structures these films,
as these big, complex...

494
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,670
This is a complex
piece of architecture,

495
00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:46,000
where everything has
to be timed so precisely.

496
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:54,180
On top of the fact that there are just so
many extras in this film, you really begin

497
00:40:54,180 --> 00:41:02,380
to appreciate how much time and energy
went into this task alone.

498
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:07,000
Sharma said that explaining
his way of filmmaking, even

499
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,440
to those who are familiar
with his work, isn't easy.

500
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,020
And to those who are not familiar with his
filmmaking methods, it's a huge challenge.

501
00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:24,700
To be quite frank, even doing this
commentary and trying to pull elements

502
00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:30,160
from the screen to discuss are really hard,
because there is so much to make sense of.

503
00:41:32,540 --> 00:41:36,400
I want to talk a little bit about the
puzzle box structure of his films.

504
00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:39,720
So, Black Rabbit, White Rabbit...

505
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,700
Black Rabbit is a very intricate narrative
structure.

506
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,220
And Macri approaches this like creating a
puzzle.

507
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:51,200
He says that all of his features have
really complex structures.

508
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:55,980
So he's learned to first work
through the architecture, the

509
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:59,340
complex structure of the film,
and then through the narrative.

510
00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:03,860
And work within the architecture to create
the narrative.

511
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:10,180
He also says that he begins
by composing the puzzles, and

512
00:42:10,180 --> 00:42:13,700
thinking which stories can work
together to create this puzzle.

513
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,340
And only at that point does he start to
work through the narrative details.

514
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,740
The fourth story came to his mind was the
story of someone who works on a film set

515
00:42:23,740 --> 00:42:26,340
and thinks that they might have a very bad
day.

516
00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:33,780
Which, in a sense, is a portion of what
this film is about, for sure.

517
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:42,280
But thinking about that simple idea,
and creating something so complex as what

518
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,740
we're seeing right now, is just
mind-boggling to me.

519
00:42:46,420 --> 00:42:50,540
I feel like I have absolutely no idea how
this man works.

520
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,520
It seems so much more complicated than I
could even dream of.

521
00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:07,490
Now, one thing I found
really interesting was the

522
00:43:07,490 --> 00:43:10,980
reason that he wanted
to work in another country.

523
00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:15,440
And, you know, alluded
to this several times,

524
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,840
but there's a lot of
political upheaval in Iran.

525
00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:23,560
And there's also a lot of
censorship that's related

526
00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:26,140
to that, and the government
that's in place there.

527
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:39,480
Makri wanted to work in another country
was specifically around the limitations of.

528
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,580
what can be shown when it comes to the
experience of women.

529
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,410
In one interview, he talks
about how he became bored

530
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:54,320
making films that show women
not in normal circumstances.

531
00:43:55,180 --> 00:44:00,620
Or making films where there's
a specific depiction of women

532
00:44:00,620 --> 00:44:04,800
that isn't really natural to
how women in real life are.

533
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:10,760
And so he really wanted to show women
being normal.

534
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,400
Or in normal circumstances that they might
deal with in their country.

535
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:20,520
Yes, I want to watch it.

536
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:25,480
Do you know that Shahroum is filming one
film here?

537
00:44:25,540 --> 00:44:26,540
What?

538
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,120
I'm telling you, he's from Iran, he's
filming one film here, and then he's leaving.

539
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,740
But you can make a film about me only for
this film.

540
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:39,040
Wait, wait, where are you going?

541
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,930
Can't you see that the actors are
rehearsing here?

542
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,220
Come around, please.

543
00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:43,740
And don't let anyone into this part.

544
00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:45,180
Gross.

545
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,440
Of course.

546
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,400
Who are you?

547
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:50,700
Me.

548
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,600
I see that your team and mine are good.

549
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,560
We'll see about that.

550
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:03,020
Which, amongst the many
issues Iran has as a country

551
00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:07,380
in current events, a lot of
them revolve around gender.

552
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:18,080
The fact that girls are able to marry as
young as 13 years old, and can even be

553
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,260
married legally younger if they have
judicial or parental consent.

554
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:30,160
According to one recent statistic,
over 16,000 girls between the age of 10 or

555
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,200
14 have married, according to government
figures.

556
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:37,000
Under Iranian law, women and girls don't
have equal rights as men.

557
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:46,340
That comes into marriage, divorce,
custody, participation in public or

558
00:45:46,340 --> 00:45:49,760
political life, the workforce,
in art.

559
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:56,780
And women and girls' testimonies at court
have no legal value for certain crimes.

560
00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:00,820
And women and girls
are even entitled to less

561
00:46:00,820 --> 00:46:03,300
compensation for
violation of their rights.

562
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,380
And then there are things like the law.

563
00:46:07,380 --> 00:46:09,880
The law is designed to, quote,
support the family by promoting the

564
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,200
culture of chastity and hijab,
which was enforced in 2024.

565
00:46:16,180 --> 00:46:22,080
The law consolidates measures in place to
enforce compulsory hijab and imposes

566
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,980
additional penalties, such as fines or
lengthy prison sentences.

567
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,640
And those who potentially go
against these laws may have even

568
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,180
more restrictions on employment,
educational opportunities.

569
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:42,500
Less than 14 percent of women participate
in the labor forces in Iran and can't work

570
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:46,420
in any fields that are, quote,
dangerous, arduous, or harmful.

571
00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:51,480
Husbands can prevent their spouses from
pursuing occupations.

572
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:59,240
And then there are various exemptions for
husbands and other male family members who

573
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:05,340
kill or assault female relatives, which
includes what we know as honor killings.

574
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:11,480
There are only even 14 women currently
serving on their parliament out of 290 seats.

575
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,260
Under Iranian laws, all sexual intercourse
outside of marriage is illegal,

576
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:23,860
whether consensual or not, which means if
a woman is assaulted, she has to prove the

577
00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:27,330
offense in court by
getting confession from the

578
00:47:27,330 --> 00:47:30,820
perpetrator or a testimony
from four male witnesses.

579
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,560
That's why the woman's excuse has never
been given.

580
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,160
The ruling party is壁 of
ABU-SAHD, and the middle

581
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,280
And.

582
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:47,500
this is a normal situation.

583
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:48,880
Now, just a quick question.

584
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,340
Can you tell me more about your country's
gender?

585
00:47:54,340 --> 00:47:55,400
This is my mother.

586
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:59,800
So you don't have a religion, right?

587
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,160
No.

588
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,700
No, there's a woman's body.

589
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:04,860
Your family is not a family.

590
00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:05,080
In the U .S., my mother is a family.

591
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:05,140
So my mother is not a family.

592
00:48:05,140 --> 00:48:06,560
And I am the wife of my mother,
but my husband is a father.

593
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:07,340
And I have a father.

594
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:13,620
Women have risen to the challenges that
they face in society and try to work

595
00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:18,280
within different restrictions,
much like filmmakers in Iran work within

596
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,910
restrictions and Sharam
works in restrictions

597
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:24,620
with the structures
he creates in his films.

598
00:48:25,020 --> 00:48:28,700
Women have found various ways to cope.

599
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:35,720
Some find ways to adopt management skills
within the home.

600
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:41,850
Really figuring out how
to track expenditures,

601
00:48:41,850 --> 00:48:45,840
prioritize needs and make
extra money for their families.

602
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,640
There are also women who, because there
are so many limited job opportunities,

603
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:58,000
take that as a chance to seek out more
education and learn skills.

604
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,660
Taking workshops, doing vocational
training, higher education.

605
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,200
Which, in the event that
things change or there's more

606
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,820
job openings, they'll be
much more likely to contribute.

607
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,400
There's a lot of mutual aid that goes on
in the country as well.

608
00:49:19,540 --> 00:49:22,420
Family, friends and neighbors sharing
resources.

609
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,780
Getting together, having a sense of
camaraderie.

610
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:32,140
Which, living in a country where we're
similarly dealing with different social

611
00:49:32,140 --> 00:49:37,660
issues more and more, I think that sense
of community is so important.

612
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,180
Women also prioritize health and
well-being.

613
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,340
They have to take care of themselves and
their bodies because they know that their

614
00:49:46,340 --> 00:49:48,760
health is crucial to helping their
families.

615
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:54,300
So taking care of themselves ultimately
means taking care of their loved ones.

616
00:49:54,900 --> 00:50:00,400
They try to empower themselves,
finding creative ways to make money.

617
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,540
They play huge roles in a lot of the
protests.

618
00:50:03,660 --> 00:50:05,130
There's a lot of protest going on in the
country.

619
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:13,380
And despite facing so many types of fines,
imprisonment, or violence against them,

620
00:50:13,580 --> 00:50:15,840
many women have taken drastic measures.

621
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,920
Removing their headscarves
in public and trying to reclaim

622
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,080
agency over their bodies
and their right to choose.

623
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Access to VPNs, social media, and finding
ways to support women.

624
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:40,060
To circumvent the different censorship and
content they're allowed to view online has

625
00:50:40,060 --> 00:50:45,480
also been a huge win for women and other
young people in the country.

626
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:53,180
Talking about their lives, sharing their
businesses, sharing their stories about

627
00:50:53,180 --> 00:50:57,150
harassment and violence,
and giving other people

628
00:50:57,150 --> 00:51:00,760
a sense of what's really
going on in the country.

629
00:51:23,250 --> 00:51:24,590
We've prepared a casting for you.

630
00:51:29,950 --> 00:51:36,330
Lakri describes Iran as a land of rich
literature, full of myth and legends.

631
00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:43,130
A place that enjoys a four-season climate
and has a huge filmmaking history.

632
00:51:43,790 --> 00:51:49,710
So there is a lot of beautiful natural and
social elements to the country,

633
00:51:49,830 --> 00:51:55,310
despite the fact that there is this
authoritarian government looming over them.

634
00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:03,440
Now the Iranian film scene really gained
traction with the Iranian new wave,

635
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:10,040
which started in the 1960s and has
continued getting more and more popularity

636
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:15,600
through the 90s and 2000s with films like
A Separation.

637
00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:22,860
They're constantly pushing boundaries,
questioning what is foundational and

638
00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:29,200
essential about cinema,
expanding aesthetics, and

639
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,100
showing themselves as a
really unique storytelling force.

640
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,220
One, two, three.

641
00:52:36,380 --> 00:52:39,540
One, two, three.

642
00:52:40,140 --> 00:52:41,300
Machia.

643
00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:52,920
In contemporary Iranian film events,
in 2025 there were calls across the film

644
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:59,960
industry, to end state censorship,
with 13 different trade unions joining

645
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:04,220
directors and screenwriters and demanding
the abolition of film production permits

646
00:53:04,220 --> 00:53:07,720
and pre-production control imposed by
government bodies.

647
00:53:09,620 --> 00:53:15,380
These unions represented cinematographers,
actors, production designers, sound

648
00:53:15,380 --> 00:53:18,060
recordists, editors, photographers,
makeup artists.

649
00:53:18,460 --> 00:53:24,060
And they backed a statement by the Iranian
film director, the Director's Association,

650
00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:25,780
condemning the state censorship.

651
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:34,920
For.

652
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:49,940
those that aren't as fluent in Iranian
films, some more contemporary films are

653
00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:56,320
things like The Salesman, Women Without
Men, It Was Just an Accident from this

654
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,520
past year, Seed of the Sacred Fig from
2024.

655
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:09,520
And a personal favorite of mine,
Holy Spider from 2022, by director Ali

656
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,640
Abbasi, which focuses on the rise and fall
of the real Iranian serial killer,

657
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:22,760
Saeed Hanay, who murdered 16 sex workers
in their holy city of Mashhad.

658
00:54:23,740 --> 00:54:28,760
If you have not seen, I highly recommend
especially talking about some of the

659
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:35,700
different issues, in regards to turmoil
women face.

660
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,260
Despite the fact that this man was a
brutal serial killer, he also found a huge

661
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:45,150
following across the country,
because he was attacking

662
00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:49,000
these women that were
thought of as unseemly.

663
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,880
And the film contains a lot of elements
that are regarded as taboo by the Iranian

664
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,920
censors, things like prostitution,
drug abuse and depictions of sex.

665
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,940
The film had to be shot entirely in Amman,
Jordan.

666
00:55:04,020 --> 00:55:10,440
But Abbasi really wanted to tackle the
topic of misogynistic roots in his homeland.

667
00:55:11,140 --> 00:55:18,260
And it's a really beautiful film
that delves into some of these

668
00:55:18,260 --> 00:55:22,620
political issues in a really
important and interesting way.

669
00:55:22,620 --> 00:55:24,360
The.

670
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,550
richness of the culture
of Iran is something

671
00:55:34,550 --> 00:55:38,500
that even predates
the Islamic theocracy.

672
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:47,260
The ancient Greece described the area as
the cosmopolitanism of the Persians.

673
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:56,300
Now, Iranian film history is quite
lengthy, spanning about 110 years.

674
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:59,580
And it's a long story.

675
00:56:00,060 --> 00:56:07,760
During the 1940s, one of the ways that the
film scene stayed afloat was by dubbing

676
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,740
many of the films that came to the
country.

677
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:15,460
So Hollywood productions were dominating
the screens.

678
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,340
But at the time, a huge
portion of the Iranian population

679
00:56:19,350 --> 00:56:21,820
was illiterate and weren't
able to read subtitles.

680
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:30,040
So dubbing became essential for people to
experience films from other countries.

681
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:38,290
And ultimately, a lot of dubbing studios
were established in the country,

682
00:56:38,490 --> 00:56:41,270
starting in the 1940s.

683
00:56:43,450 --> 00:56:49,190
The Iranian film industry really grew
rapidly in the 50s and 60s.

684
00:56:49,390 --> 00:56:52,990
Many studios were established,
theaters built.

685
00:56:55,070 --> 00:57:00,890
By 1965, there were 72 movie theaters in
Tehran alone.

686
00:57:07,050 --> 00:57:12,810
One of the big successes in the country
was a film known as Ganja Quran,

687
00:57:13,130 --> 00:57:20,990
which grossed over the equivalent of 1
million U.S.

688
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:21,230
dollars.

689
00:57:21,490 --> 00:57:26,670
And the theme of the film concerned the
worthless and desperate life of the upper

690
00:57:26,670 --> 00:57:30,700
middle class, in contrast
with the poor and happy

691
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,170
working class, which
is, quote, rich and morals.

692
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:39,970
So a very interesting perspective for them
to have.

693
00:57:42,430 --> 00:57:46,360
The boom that occurred
in the film scene in the

694
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,410
60s and 70s was also
not just with narrative films.

695
00:57:49,530 --> 00:57:55,150
There were several larger documentaries
that became popular.

696
00:57:58,340 --> 00:58:04,780
And considering how much of fiction and
reality plays a role in many of the films

697
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:08,260
of Iranian cinema, it makes a lot of
sense.

698
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:17,040
The themes that were very popular at the
time were dance, music, and really

699
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:24,080
simplistic dramas, as well as Persianized
versions of Western films.

700
00:58:27,180 --> 00:58:36,200
And we also see some of the roots of
Sharam's work, and how it relates to the

701
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:37,540
cinematic voice of the Iranian film
industry.

702
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,160
And we also see some of the roots of
Sharam's work, and how it relates to the

703
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:39,420
cinematic voice of the Iranian film
industry.

704
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:45,420
One very notable film from the 60s was The
Night of the Hunchback, which is a very

705
00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:50,200
magical, realist film based on one
thousand and one nights.

706
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:54,820
And by the 70s, you see a real boom.

707
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:01,340
The 70s was a special decade for Iranian
cinema, and the 70s saw the height of the

708
00:59:01,340 --> 00:59:04,620
Shah's confidence in his social and
political successes.

709
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,480
And because the government felt so
powerful at the time, the regime even

710
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,280
allowed the making of films with some
critical social themes.

711
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,480
Schools that were started in the 60s
started having their first graduates,

712
00:59:19,820 --> 00:59:24,760
so you have a really robust generation of
new filmmakers.

713
00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:30,660
And a lot of important filmmakers emerged
from the pre-revolutionary era there.

714
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,600
And these young filmmakers showed a real
interest in the film industry.

715
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:39,180
They showed interest in avant-garde forms
of cinema, which makes sense for the time,

716
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:44,240
too, being inspired by the different New
Wave movements in other countries that

717
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:53,500
came before, including Parvus Kimiyavi,
best known for his film Mongols from 1973,

718
00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:00,210
which allegorized the
cultural imperialism of TV by

719
01:00:00,210 --> 01:00:04,420
comparing that situation to
the invasion of the Mongols.

720
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:10,840
And then there was Biram Bazai,
a groundbreaking Iranian New Wave

721
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,280
director, known for his 1972 film
Downpour.

722
01:00:16,300 --> 01:00:20,560
In the 70s is also
when Shahram's mentor,

723
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:25,280
Abbas Karastami,
really establishes himself.

724
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:31,080
His film The Report, which came out in
1978, was one of the last films that

725
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,440
screened before the revolution started in
1978.

726
01:00:45,420 --> 01:00:50,200
And that's when the film was first
released, in 1979.

727
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:06,060
I particularly love this scene because not
only does this become a very

728
01:01:06,060 --> 01:01:11,410
self-referential film
where it gets meta, He

729
01:01:11,410 --> 01:01:16,420
also starts making
fun of himself a little bit.

730
01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:19,600
As these people are talking, it's like,
why is this too long?

731
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,580
This like circle of light doesn't make any
sense.

732
01:01:23,060 --> 01:01:26,600
You can definitely see how these are
things people might be asking behind the

733
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:32,240
scenes that are familiar with his work or
kind of his vision, but also with critics

734
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:36,760
and audiences who maybe have a hard time
getting under those different layers.

735
01:01:43,420 --> 01:01:48,360
Here they talk about just general issues
that women have with their husbands,

736
01:01:48,740 --> 01:01:50,800
but they don't really talk to too much.

737
01:01:50,820 --> 01:01:57,400
It's just kind of the women here give each
other a look, and they know what it means,

738
01:01:58,620 --> 01:02:01,810
even though maybe some of
the men in the room are a little

739
01:02:01,810 --> 01:02:05,880
more clueless when it comes
to the plight of women in Iran.

740
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,720
And going back to 60s and 70s history in
Iran, this is also a little bit of a story.

741
01:02:15,740 --> 01:02:19,860
So where you start to
see the cinema landscape

742
01:02:19,870 --> 01:02:23,220
exploring politics through
symbolic language.

743
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,640
But also, unfortunately, like happens with
many repressive governments, there are

744
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,680
filmmakers from Iran during this time that
were forced to leave the country because

745
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,520
of the political and cultural
circumstances.

746
01:02:36,260 --> 01:02:41,940
And those who stayed really
tried to take the opportunity

747
01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:45,360
to use that censorship
to create something new.

748
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,620
And working in those rough restrictions.

749
01:02:54,120 --> 01:03:01,720
And in the 90s is when Iranian cinema
really enjoys its global success.

750
01:03:02,060 --> 01:03:05,740
Many of these films becoming festival
darlings all over the world.

751
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,580
And that also proves
to be a really big image

752
01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:12,860
enhancer that was needed
for the Islamic Republic.

753
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:18,340
Because of the political and social issues
going on in the country, the fact that

754
01:03:18,340 --> 01:03:23,420
they were becoming so
highly regarded for their artistic

755
01:03:23,420 --> 01:03:26,500
endeavors was a really
big boom for the country.

756
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:36,080
And there was a period in the country's
history where it was unclear if cinema

757
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,110
would have a place
in the Islamic regime,

758
01:03:39,110 --> 01:03:43,400
considering it was
considered a Western toxin.

759
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:47,480
clueless when it comes to this.

760
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:52,680
But as people in power happened to be fans
of certain Iranian films, they gave

761
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,600
permission for cinema to have a place in
the Islamic Republic.

762
01:04:00,220 --> 01:04:04,420
They say that Iranian filmmakers use their
cameras as weapons.

763
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,280
That their art is a form of resistance.

764
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,040
The fact is that one of the films on the
screen was killed in the same way.

765
01:04:13,220 --> 01:04:15,780
It's not a myth.

766
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,040
It was probably Antonia's idea.

767
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:20,920
Antonia was the one who killed Antonia.

768
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,060
I don't know about that.

769
01:04:22,180 --> 01:04:23,040
I think I know what you're talking about.

770
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:24,300
Come on, come on, come on.

771
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:25,700
Where?

772
01:04:26,020 --> 01:04:27,020
Come on, over there.

773
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,080
Oh, sure.

774
01:04:42,580 --> 01:04:43,580
Don't be afraid.

775
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,600
One of the things you should remember is
that...

776
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:48,600
He who doesn't know, he's dead.

777
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:50,800
What?

778
01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:52,600
Come on, come on, come on.

779
01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:54,580
Don't worry, we'll be back.

780
01:05:53,980 --> 01:06:02,820
Come to another very iconic scene,
in which we see a bunch of the different

781
01:06:02,820 --> 01:06:07,380
props that are being used on set have a
conversation with each other.

782
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:19,110
It brings to mind the rock scene in
Everything, Everywhere, All at Once quite

783
01:06:19,110 --> 01:06:23,030
a bit, but I like that we
have so many of these

784
01:06:23,030 --> 01:06:27,030
different objects having
discourse around each other.

785
01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:36,710
And while it's not totally explored in
this film, it brings about an idea that I

786
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:42,550
find really interesting about places or
objects holding...

787
01:06:42,550 --> 01:06:45,970
holding trauma of the different events
that occurred.

788
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:53,550
So this revolver having, in a sense,
a memory of something that happened to it

789
01:06:53,550 --> 01:06:58,090
years and years ago, seeking vengeance
just like a human would.

790
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:22,260
Since the 1979 Islamic Resolution,
the Ministry of Culture and Islamic

791
01:07:22,260 --> 01:07:26,220
Guidance have exercised control over
filmmaking.

792
01:07:26,940 --> 01:07:29,440
From script development and casting...

793
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,420
posters and promotional
materials... and even which

794
01:07:34,420 --> 01:07:37,640
actors' images can
appear in advertising or not.

795
01:07:38,740 --> 01:07:44,200
Now, the Republic has set a lot of restrictions
on what kind of content is forbidden.

796
01:07:44,380 --> 01:07:50,420
And these are things like showing women's
hair to unmarried men and women touching

797
01:07:50,420 --> 01:08:01,230
it affectionately... anything risqué...
and even though the government's

798
01:08:01,670 --> 01:08:07,190
government has put many restrictions on
the film industry and has made it harder

799
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:12,590
and harder for filmmakers to explore the
kind of content they want to because of

800
01:08:12,590 --> 01:08:16,140
the way Iranian cinema has
been regarded over the years,

801
01:08:16,140 --> 01:08:19,150
they continue to support
the film industry regardless.

802
01:08:20,110 --> 01:08:24,910
And while censorship is certainly an
issue, some also believed that these

803
01:08:24,910 --> 01:08:27,610
obstacles helped the creativity of the
filmmakers.

804
01:09:02,210 --> 01:09:04,410
We talk about Iranian current events.

805
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:10,350
And there are a lot of people who believe
that there is hope for the things

806
01:09:10,350 --> 01:09:13,780
happening in the country
right now because of

807
01:09:13,780 --> 01:09:17,590
how impactful a lot of
the protests have seen.

808
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:24,170
But also the scale of violence deployed by
the Iranian security forces against

809
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:27,890
protesters have been staggering,
as they have been for years.

810
01:09:28,750 --> 01:09:33,950
And so ruling with an iron fist and being
unyielding towards protesters,

811
01:09:34,210 --> 01:09:36,750
is a bit of ...is a
huge part of what the

812
01:09:36,750 --> 01:09:39,430
government has done
for years and years here.

813
01:09:39,650 --> 01:09:45,570
So even with the hope that things might
change, you can also see why people might

814
01:09:45,570 --> 01:09:50,070
be skeptical that this is just an moment
where things are once again repeating.

815
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:54,390
And unfortunately,
the regional powers that

816
01:09:54,390 --> 01:09:57,630
be are focused on
preserving the status quo.

817
01:09:58,310 --> 01:10:03,650
And they are trying to
deter the United States from

818
01:10:03,650 --> 01:10:07,230
intervening and assisting
in regime change operations.

819
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:09,010
Can't imagine why.

820
01:10:10,650 --> 01:10:14,410
And concerns about the regional turmoil
are really understandable.

821
01:10:16,110 --> 01:10:21,830
The Middle East has been plagued by years
of war in various countries.

822
01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:27,730
Most of the regional powers and countries
are wary of mass protests.

823
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:33,090
So what's happening
in Iran is not dissimilar

824
01:10:33,090 --> 01:10:36,930
what's happened to other
countries in the region.

825
01:10:37,930 --> 01:10:39,730
Many of them do the same thing.

826
01:10:39,970 --> 01:10:41,830
They criminalize the dissents.

827
01:10:43,390 --> 01:10:46,110
They frame protests as a foreign
conspiracy.

828
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:51,520
And they do what they can
to preserve the power that

829
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:55,210
they have and prevent
meaningful change from happening.

830
01:10:57,530 --> 01:11:01,870
But the country currently, as of recording
this, is in dire straits.

831
01:11:02,090 --> 01:11:07,430
There's crippling inflation, military
defeats, the succession crisis,

832
01:11:08,150 --> 01:11:09,990
the threat of American intervention.

833
01:11:10,550 --> 01:11:13,830
And unfortunately, that means cracking
down on protesters.

834
01:11:14,410 --> 01:11:17,690
In these most recent
protests, there's an estimated

835
01:11:17,690 --> 01:11:19,990
2,000 people who
have already been killed.

836
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:26,290
But some have also stated that Iran is
undergoing the most dramatic upheaval

837
01:11:26,290 --> 01:11:33,110
since the 1979 revolution, which is, well,
that's just the beginning of its history.

838
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:39,010
And so, in many ways, we can see how the
idea of history repeating itself might

839
01:11:39,010 --> 01:11:43,150
even play a very subtle role in the films
he's creating.

840
01:11:56,650 --> 01:11:59,470
And now, what model have you brought?

841
01:12:00,630 --> 01:12:06,730
The Rodeo, the one who has been shot and
has not been shot.

842
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:08,070
Why the Rodeo?

843
01:12:10,210 --> 01:12:13,170
Because, my dear, in life, I've seen what
I was seeing.

844
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:37,800
But.

845
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:48,440
unfortunately, the government's
history of cracking down

846
01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:54,230
and becoming more and more
restrictive follows it to today.

847
01:12:56,790 --> 01:13:01,760
In 2009, the prominent
director Jafar Panahi

848
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,410
was arrested for
attending demonstrations.

849
01:13:07,150 --> 01:13:12,770
In 2012, the government shut down the
House of Cinema, which was basically the

850
01:13:12,770 --> 01:13:18,010
equivalent of the Academy of Motion
Pictures of Arts and Science in the country.

851
01:13:20,990 --> 01:13:28,250
And later, his film, This Is Not a Film,
dealt with many of the restrictive issues

852
01:13:28,250 --> 01:13:33,050
he dealt with, as the film
was about a director under

853
01:13:33,050 --> 01:13:36,090
house arrest awaiting the
appeal of his prison sentence.

854
01:13:37,130 --> 01:13:42,230
The film was made because the regime had
forbidden him from making films for 20

855
01:13:42,230 --> 01:13:49,690
years, and his way around that was to
appear in the film itself.

856
01:13:50,070 --> 01:13:51,990
He wasn't writing or directing.

857
01:13:51,990 --> 01:13:56,030
So, appearing in front of the camera,
in his mind, would be totally fine.

858
01:13:57,510 --> 01:14:03,910
And by trying to sell it as some sort of
filmmaker, as actor in a documentary,

859
01:14:04,030 --> 01:14:08,570
like fiction, he really did
what he could to try to get

860
01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:14,510
around some of the laws
forbaying him to pursue his passions.

861
01:14:20,430 --> 01:14:24,910
This Is Not a Film was smuggled out of
Iran to the Cannes Film Festival.

862
01:14:24,910 --> 01:14:28,790
And was able to get distribution all over
the world.

863
01:14:36,770 --> 01:14:43,790
And here we really see a common theme in
Iranian films that are a staple of

864
01:14:43,790 --> 01:14:48,050
Shahram's work as well, which is the
blending of fiction and documentary.

865
01:14:49,090 --> 01:14:50,390
Blurring those lines.

866
01:14:50,890 --> 01:14:52,350
Stories within stories.

867
01:14:54,090 --> 01:14:59,270
Sarah's story, initially, we think it is
just us following this woman, and then we

868
01:14:59,270 --> 01:15:03,170
realise that it is part of a production,
much like a lot of other elements.

869
01:15:05,070 --> 01:15:07,890
Most of the two musical characters get
together on set.

870
01:15:45,460 --> 01:15:50,300
Sarah's later many similar よ academy I
have no idea what these people are doing

871
01:15:50,300 --> 01:15:54,900
and the way the Iranian film industry has
been affected by it.

872
01:15:55,060 --> 01:15:56,940
He also said that U.S.

873
01:15:57,020 --> 01:16:01,620
sanctions on Iran have made it really
difficult to transfer money and assets

874
01:16:01,620 --> 01:16:05,720
between the Iranian banks and other
countries, which means it's really

875
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:09,820
difficult for joint ventures and
production to happen.

876
01:16:10,740 --> 01:16:11,740
...

877
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:15,020
Amal Aran has a really unique voice in the
realm of cinematic history.

878
01:17:16,300 --> 01:17:23,180
It's not the only country that has dealt
with repressive governments and artistic

879
01:17:23,180 --> 01:17:27,660
freedoms and censorship that has found
interesting ways to be creative.

880
01:17:29,780 --> 01:17:34,260
For instance, in the United States,
we had the Hays Code, which had a very

881
01:17:34,260 --> 01:17:39,680
strict outline about what could be shown
on screen.

882
01:17:40,180 --> 01:17:43,860
And specifically, it had to follow certain
moral guidelines.

883
01:17:44,380 --> 01:17:47,160
Not showing nudity, or profanity,
or sex.

884
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:51,740
Making sure that the good guy always wins
in the end.

885
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,180
Not having villains win.

886
01:17:54,060 --> 01:17:57,690
And some of those moralistic
conversations are ones that

887
01:17:57,690 --> 01:18:00,940
seem to be coming back around,
even in the United States now.

888
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:09,480
So again, we see how these views come and
go and continue across time and space.

889
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:17,000
But then you also have the Czech New Wave
movement in the 1960s, which was another

890
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,840
really bold experimental period of
filmmaking.

891
01:18:20,700 --> 01:18:23,650
And a lot of the films
that were being made at

892
01:18:23,650 --> 01:18:26,540
the time focused on
social and political issues.

893
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,620
Going on in communist Czech.

894
01:18:33,090 --> 01:18:35,600
And many directors,
again, had to leave the

895
01:18:35,610 --> 01:18:38,770
country because of strict
laws and persecution.

896
01:18:38,950 --> 01:18:45,650
The popular filmmaker
Vera Kitiulova is a great

897
01:18:45,650 --> 01:18:50,770
example of a woman
directing during that time.

898
01:18:50,850 --> 01:18:56,710
As well as someone whose film,
Daisies, was banned by the government.

899
01:18:56,750 --> 01:18:58,690
And she wasn't allowed to...

900
01:18:59,090 --> 01:19:01,970
make films for several years in the
country because of it.

901
01:19:03,850 --> 01:19:09,010
And then in the 1970s, you have Spain's
post-Franco film scene.

902
01:19:09,150 --> 01:19:15,230
Once the Franco dictatorship ended and the
rigid censorship laws were no longer in

903
01:19:15,230 --> 01:19:19,270
place, simply showing
graphic violence or

904
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:24,670
sex on screen was a
really big political act.

905
01:19:26,750 --> 01:19:30,410
In fact, just recently, there was a great
documentary that came out about this

906
01:19:30,410 --> 01:19:37,270
period called Exorcismo, which is narrated
by Iggy Pop and directed by Alberto

907
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:43,510
Cedano, which we actually featured in
Brooklyn Horror Fest in 2024.

908
01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:49,230
And the documentary talks about these
classified S films, as they called them.

909
01:19:50,030 --> 01:19:54,850
Sebrin actually has a box set that includes
the documentary with some of these films.

910
01:19:54,850 --> 01:20:00,230
So another great example of films coming
out of a repressive government.

911
01:20:01,330 --> 01:20:06,650
And similarly, in Italy, the years of
lead, as they were referred to,

912
01:20:06,750 --> 01:20:12,890
which was a period of social and political
turmoil in the country that lasted for

913
01:20:12,890 --> 01:20:17,100
about 20 years, starting
in the 60s, which was

914
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:20,230
marked by huge
political acts of terrorism.

915
01:20:20,590 --> 01:20:24,670
And there was a lot of films that were
dedicated to...

916
01:20:24,670 --> 01:20:30,830
showing the violence, crime, corruption
and political strains that were going on.

917
01:20:32,050 --> 01:20:36,630
Censorship always creeps its head into the
film scene.

918
01:20:38,490 --> 01:20:45,590
And either when freed from such
restrictions or during them, filmmakers

919
01:20:45,590 --> 01:20:48,690
and artists are always finding new ways to
challenge.

920
01:20:49,790 --> 01:20:54,470
And it really is a great example of how
art is always political.

921
01:20:56,850 --> 01:21:02,140
And especially in Iran, you
can feel how fueled by politics

922
01:21:02,140 --> 01:21:07,830
and social issues everything
is, even if it isn't explicit.

923
01:22:00,170 --> 01:22:01,170
Mina.

924
01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:12,060
Something about his films too,
because it has all of these different

925
01:22:12,060 --> 01:22:16,600
stories that seemingly
aren't connected at first,

926
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:20,460
they almost feel like a
collection of short stories.

927
01:22:21,060 --> 01:22:23,740
Fish and Cat is very
similar, as we followed

928
01:22:23,750 --> 01:22:25,900
these different
characters wading around.

929
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,640
But they're also telling stories with
voiceovers.

930
01:22:33,140 --> 01:22:38,300
So here it's very similar, where we get
all of these different stories.

931
01:22:38,820 --> 01:22:42,380
We see them happening through different
points of view.

932
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:46,260
Three of Sharam's short films are also
included.

933
01:22:46,260 --> 01:22:50,500
The earliest being The Dragonfly Storm.

934
01:22:50,980 --> 01:22:55,690
Which, if you end up watching
that one, or have already,

935
01:22:55,690 --> 01:22:59,640
there's a lot more cuts in
that one than is typical work.

936
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:05,660
So you really don't see that style of the
one-shot come into play.

937
01:23:22,350 --> 01:23:28,870
The tone of a lot of Macri's work also
reminds me of two short story authors.

938
01:23:29,710 --> 01:23:35,390
Eckhart Carrot, who's a writer from
Israel, who wrote books like Suddenly a

939
01:23:35,390 --> 01:23:39,210
Knock at the Door, The Bus Driver That
Wanted to Be God, and Seven Good Years.

940
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:44,200
As well as George Saunders,
an American writer, who has

941
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:48,290
short story collections like
Pastoralia or Tenth of December.

942
01:23:49,050 --> 01:23:55,130
And there's something about the whimsical
nature of these films.

943
01:23:56,370 --> 01:23:58,850
And the way Sharam is portrayed.

944
01:23:58,850 --> 01:24:03,550
And how Sharam's films begin to feel like
short stories, particularly this one.

945
01:24:05,050 --> 01:24:10,440
With how we're taken
down these long rabbit

946
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:15,130
holes into a story that
is within another story.

947
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:20,720
Mr. Babak.

948
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:23,180
Babak?

949
01:24:23,460 --> 01:24:24,060
Yes?

950
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:24,660
Are you okay?

951
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:26,300
What happened?

952
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:27,480
You should be fine.

953
01:24:29,980 --> 01:24:30,880
Where are the others?

954
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:31,000
I don't know.

955
01:24:31,660 --> 01:24:32,800
They went to the Maidana.

956
01:24:52,430 --> 01:25:00,270
And it's interesting, too, in this film,
and ones like Fish and Cat, where not only

957
01:25:00,270 --> 01:25:03,780
do we see the same event
happen multiple times,

958
01:25:03,780 --> 01:25:06,370
we also see it from
different perspectives.

959
01:25:06,490 --> 01:25:10,590
Or an event that happened
in the foreground later

960
01:25:10,590 --> 01:25:13,450
is happening in the
background, or vice versa.

961
01:25:17,210 --> 01:25:23,130
It really gives you this very full picture
of the entire world that he's built.

962
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:36,640
In an article entitled The Cinematic Time
Loops of Sharam Makhri, the writer makes a

963
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:42,580
point that Makhri's temporal loops
condense differing perspectives into a

964
01:25:42,580 --> 01:25:45,620
single shot as if to establish a shared
memory.

965
01:25:48,020 --> 01:25:50,420
A collective consciousness, if you will.

966
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:58,210
Showing us that there's
always more, than just our

967
01:25:58,210 --> 01:26:01,480
singular understanding
of the events that occur.

968
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,670
The main storylines of
this film being the armorer

969
01:26:08,670 --> 01:26:13,520
who suspects a prop gun
might be out for revenge.

970
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,180
An actor who seeks a part in a film who
may or may not exist.

971
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:23,340
A woman haunted by the idea that her car
crash wasn't an accident.

972
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:30,100
And we have all of these very strange stories
coming together and blending into one.

973
01:26:32,100 --> 01:26:37,140
He says that in Black Rabbit, White
Rabbit, we are again reenacting the past

974
01:26:37,140 --> 01:26:43,540
in present, but in a way to make present
and past indistinguishable from each other.

975
01:27:08,130 --> 01:27:09,540
But, in a way, it's a
reenactment of the past

976
01:27:09,540 --> 01:27:12,030
that is probably
missing from the present.

977
01:27:12,230 --> 01:27:23,840
But, in a way, it's a reenactment of the
past.

978
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,120
Because our images are less, less,
less visualized.

979
01:27:28,740 --> 01:27:31,140
Or much, much more, less visualized than
before.

980
01:27:31,140 --> 01:27:31,280
Exactly.

981
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:33,440
I was thinking, did you have a resistance
to it?

982
01:27:34,140 --> 01:27:39,580
Because of the fact that in Black Rabbit,
the action takes place in a manner of

983
01:27:39,580 --> 01:27:42,360
Bijan, tell the girls to go back to their
places.

984
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:43,960
Yes, we are ready.

985
01:27:44,780 --> 01:27:46,640
Girls, go back to your places quickly.

986
01:27:48,140 --> 01:27:49,360
Manzar, what happened?

987
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,000
Manzar!

988
01:27:55,660 --> 01:28:01,250
Now, Shahram's mentor,
the boss, Kiarostami,

989
01:28:01,250 --> 01:28:05,720
was someone who also
had a lot of metafilms.

990
01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:12,100
And, as Shahram himself
says, his films are often

991
01:28:12,100 --> 01:28:16,400
about acting or the
process of making films.

992
01:28:20,860 --> 01:28:25,380
And so he takes that, and he said,
with Black Rabbit, White Rabbit,

993
01:28:25,460 --> 01:28:30,560
he wanted to look through the lens of
making a film about making a film,

994
01:28:30,660 --> 01:28:34,960
or being a filmmaker making a film about a
filmmaker making a film.

995
01:28:35,620 --> 01:28:43,340
And hoping that he's able to pursue that
direction in the right way and really pay

996
01:28:43,340 --> 01:28:48,360
homage and an ode to the man that he is
such a huge fan of.

997
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:55,000
And one of the realities
that Shahram really gets

998
01:28:55,010 --> 01:28:59,640
right is just the truly
chaotic nature of the film set.

999
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,400
How many elements are going on at once.

1000
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:14,420
The armorer is trying so hard to do his
job, and even the people that seem to be

1001
01:29:14,420 --> 01:29:19,540
helming the production either aren't
around.

1002
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:24,240
They constantly mention Shahram being
somewhere else, not being on set yet,

1003
01:29:24,380 --> 01:29:26,920
going off, making last minute changes.

1004
01:29:28,460 --> 01:29:34,260
And then you have people
like this producer who tend to

1005
01:29:34,260 --> 01:29:40,860
shirk responsibility, or pass
the Baton to someone else.

1006
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:11,580
So I've talked about MC Escher a little
bit so far, but I want to explore him and

1007
01:31:11,580 --> 01:31:18,940
his works a little bit more in detail
because I think that it ties so much to

1008
01:31:18,940 --> 01:31:28,620
Sharam Makhri's work and you can see how
these creatives who ended up working in

1009
01:31:28,620 --> 01:31:34,100
different fields with different mediums
ended up having so much in common.

1010
01:31:36,220 --> 01:31:39,900
So Escher was born in 1898.

1011
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:45,400
His full name, Maritzis Cornelius Escher.

1012
01:31:45,660 --> 01:31:52,220
And if you don't know the name,
like just from the top of your head.

1013
01:31:52,220 --> 01:31:56,800
If you just do a quick Google search,
you'll immediately know his works.

1014
01:31:57,040 --> 01:31:59,500
For some reason, I always
equate them with grade school,

1015
01:31:59,500 --> 01:32:01,820
seeing them in a lot of picture
books when I was younger.

1016
01:32:06,570 --> 01:32:11,710
Escher made 448
lithographs, woodcuts and wood

1017
01:32:11,710 --> 01:32:16,410
engravings, and more than
2000 drawings and sketches.

1018
01:32:18,010 --> 01:32:21,810
And he plays with architecture,
perspective and impossible spaces.

1019
01:32:21,810 --> 01:32:25,930
He started out going to
architecture school and

1020
01:32:25,940 --> 01:32:29,790
switching gears because he
wanted to pursue art so much.

1021
01:32:30,190 --> 01:32:37,530
And similarly, Sharam talks about his
films architecture really frequently.

1022
01:32:40,750 --> 01:32:45,110
Escher was renowned for his use of
intricate patterns, optical illusions,

1023
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:50,210
and they often involved mathematic and
scientific concepts.

1024
01:32:53,050 --> 01:32:58,170
And his most famous works
are what they call his impossible

1025
01:32:58,170 --> 01:33:03,490
drawings, such as the ascending
and descending, and relativity.

1026
01:33:17,140 --> 01:33:18,160
Hey, what's your name?

1027
01:33:20,260 --> 01:33:21,840
Mr. Waidov.

1028
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:24,640
I think my Feinstein is somewhere here,
but it's there right now.

1029
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:30,620
I checked this week.

1030
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:32,860
The construction company is behind the
scenes.

1031
01:33:32,860 --> 01:33:33,860
I'm not a comedian.

1032
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:36,640
I talked to Antonio.

1033
01:33:36,700 --> 01:33:37,340
I'm sorry.

1034
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:39,860
Do you know what happened in America to
Alec Baldwin?

1035
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:42,800
Yes, you're right.

1036
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:44,120
He was shot in the head.

1037
01:33:44,820 --> 01:33:45,300
Okay.

1038
01:33:45,820 --> 01:33:47,860
You have to apologize to everyone.

1039
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:49,040
Or I'll be left with a body.

1040
01:33:49,740 --> 01:33:50,440
Don't worry.

1041
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:51,800
Nassim won't take your film.

1042
01:33:53,740 --> 01:33:55,020
I'm tired of your acting.

1043
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:56,040
Go and take a rest.

1044
01:33:56,660 --> 01:33:57,660
You're tired.

1045
01:34:10,890 --> 01:34:15,690
The ways in which Macri's work and M.C.

1046
01:34:15,690 --> 01:34:19,250
Escher's work are similar are really
fascinating.

1047
01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:28,030
Escher's work has dealt with themes around
challenging people's perception of space

1048
01:34:28,030 --> 01:34:31,840
and reality, creating
impossible constructions,

1049
01:34:31,850 --> 01:34:34,710
and weaving together
various perspectives.

1050
01:34:35,550 --> 01:34:44,050
His works also explore the ideas of a
self-referential paradox, the limits of

1051
01:34:44,050 --> 01:34:50,790
human perception and the subjective nature
of reality, combining mathematics,

1052
01:34:51,230 --> 01:34:59,050
physics, and art to create illusions of
movement and transformation, contemplating

1053
01:34:59,050 --> 01:35:06,430
things like the cycle of life,
and things just seemingly morphing into

1054
01:35:06,430 --> 01:35:10,330
each other, this seamless fluidity
throughout his work.

1055
01:35:10,810 --> 01:35:16,750
And I think similarly you can say all of
that is here in Black Rabbit, White

1056
01:35:16,750 --> 01:35:20,590
Rabbit, but most of Schramm's work as
well.

1057
01:35:21,230 --> 01:35:27,260
Escher creates impossible
structures that shift perspectives

1058
01:35:27,260 --> 01:35:31,550
and embrace the subject nature
of our experience as humans.

1059
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:31,220
He was very influenced by science and
mathematics, but his artwork ended up

1060
01:36:31,220 --> 01:36:35,720
inspiring different fields as well,
including the field of topology.

1061
01:36:38,340 --> 01:36:42,040
And like a lot of artists
similar in his time,

1062
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:46,200
Escher struggled to gain
recognition during his life.

1063
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:51,300
And his work didn't really become highly
regarded and celebrated until years later.

1064
01:36:52,260 --> 01:36:56,480
And that's by Arten Thunisius and
mathematicians alike.

1065
01:36:57,860 --> 01:37:04,300
Some of his more popular works are ones
called Relativity, which showcases a

1066
01:37:04,300 --> 01:37:08,820
complex network of stairs and
architectural elements that defy gravity

1067
01:37:08,820 --> 01:37:12,400
and are designed to challenge the viewer's
perception of space.

1068
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:19,300
And it's a really great example of this,
these impossible constructions that he

1069
01:37:19,300 --> 01:37:24,780
makes, weaving together various perspectives
to create these mind-boggling effects.

1070
01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:33,420
Another similarity between him and Schramm
as Schramm constantly weaves various

1071
01:37:33,420 --> 01:37:38,240
perspectives and we
see the same scenes from

1072
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:42,880
various people's points
of view as the film goes on.

1073
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:49,060
Another one of his famous works was
Drawing Hands, which depicts a pair of

1074
01:37:49,060 --> 01:37:51,680
hands that appear to be drawing one
another.

1075
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:57,780
And that work explores the idea of
infinite recursion, where each hand is

1076
01:37:57,780 --> 01:38:03,860
simultaneously the drawer and the drawn,
creating a self-referential paradox that

1077
01:38:03,860 --> 01:38:07,980
speaks to the nature of creation and
artistic expression.

1078
01:38:09,420 --> 01:38:18,040
And... because Schramm's films often feel
like these big time loops where we see one

1079
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:23,380
event happen, falling into the next event,
but then somehow that event happens before

1080
01:38:23,380 --> 01:38:29,280
the one before it, it has a similar kind
of optical illusion effect.

1081
01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:35,740
Another of his famous works, Ascending and
Descending, which features a group of

1082
01:38:35,740 --> 01:38:40,320
figures walking up and down staircases
that seem to lead nowhere.

1083
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,810
And it draws attention
to the limits of human

1084
01:38:44,820 --> 01:38:48,460
perception and the
subjective nature of reality.

1085
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:54,780
Again, Schramm constantly challenging our
perception of reality.

1086
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,900
It's a more reserved form of observation
than anyone else.

1087
01:39:12,900 --> 01:39:16,640
And then, as we're looking at the novel,
we have to see the face of the book.

1088
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,940
And it really shows that this is a kind of
fictional fantasy.

1089
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:24,360
But there's a very particular story about
this.

1090
01:39:27,340 --> 01:39:29,300
Which is a little bit about the leader of
Saurabh.

1091
01:39:31,900 --> 01:39:32,900
See?

1092
01:40:09,140 --> 01:40:12,540
In these moments
where the film gets really

1093
01:40:12,540 --> 01:40:16,140
meta and we end up
seeing behind the scenes.

1094
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:32,500
You really begin to appreciate how magical
making a film is, how difficult making a

1095
01:40:32,500 --> 01:40:36,880
film is, even if you're not someone as
meticulous as Shiram.

1096
01:40:40,260 --> 01:40:43,860
There are so many people, so many moving
elements.

1097
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:48,880
So many conflicting priorities.

1098
01:42:39,830 --> 01:42:40,390
Do you know how difficult it was for my
mother to come to this set?

1099
01:42:40,390 --> 01:42:42,470
She's shooting in the third studio.

1100
01:42:44,090 --> 01:42:47,020
I'm not sure if it was
the third studio, but the

1101
01:42:47,030 --> 01:42:50,030
last three nights I
clearly saw her sleeping.

1102
01:42:50,090 --> 01:42:52,570
You know, I just adore her.

1103
01:42:52,850 --> 01:42:54,750
Even my friends joke about it sometimes.

1104
01:42:56,690 --> 01:43:00,930
If she's in the third studio, I'll
definitely go there and look at her.

1105
01:43:01,510 --> 01:43:04,730
Do you know how difficult it was for my
mother to come to this set?

1106
01:43:07,630 --> 01:43:09,550
Wait, is that Akai Bubak?

1107
01:43:09,810 --> 01:43:10,810
Yes.

1108
01:43:11,890 --> 01:43:13,730
Let's go, I want to see your costume.

1109
01:43:14,030 --> 01:43:19,810
Shiram says that when he was talking about
Black Rabbit, White Rabbit, he was very

1110
01:43:19,810 --> 01:43:22,710
careful not to provide
any spoilers, so it

1111
01:43:22,710 --> 01:43:25,190
made it a little bit
difficult to talk about.

1112
01:43:25,430 --> 01:43:29,230
And it makes sense, once you've seen the
film, it's understandable why it's hard to

1113
01:43:29,230 --> 01:43:33,910
talk about it without revealing some of
the mystery elements that are revealed.

1114
01:43:33,910 --> 01:43:39,220
And he said that with this
film, again, they continued

1115
01:43:39,220 --> 01:43:43,290
to explore what is
understood by remaking it.

1116
01:43:43,770 --> 01:43:47,130
In the context of the
story, the filmmaker

1117
01:43:47,130 --> 01:43:51,510
Shiram is remaking a
popular Iranian series.

1118
01:43:52,750 --> 01:43:53,850
Akai Bubak!

1119
01:43:53,930 --> 01:43:59,550
And then we see multiple scenes being
replayed and redone before us.

1120
01:44:00,930 --> 01:44:09,870
And... The way their films are composed of
these single-shot one-takes, it gives it a

1121
01:44:09,870 --> 01:44:13,950
circular format in the way that actors
move about the set.

1122
01:44:14,830 --> 01:44:19,370
Things kind of spiral and continue to kind
of come back to each other.

1123
01:44:19,750 --> 01:44:25,090
It also challenges our perception of time
and space in this movie.

1124
01:44:25,090 --> 01:44:29,630
It's hard to say what
the linear timeline is in

1125
01:44:29,630 --> 01:44:33,270
terms of the events that
are occurring before us.

1126
01:44:34,870 --> 01:44:36,690
Which is part of the point.

1127
01:44:38,130 --> 01:44:44,470
And in terms of history, it's an
interesting element because we often

1128
01:44:44,470 --> 01:44:47,730
discuss or talk about history repeating
itself.

1129
01:44:49,190 --> 01:44:54,430
In the story here, the armorer is trying
to stop a gun from seeking revenge.

1130
01:44:54,430 --> 01:44:55,470
Years later.

1131
01:44:57,270 --> 01:45:01,470
And trying to prevent him or someone else
from getting hurt on set.

1132
01:45:01,890 --> 01:45:04,750
Much like the way his
predecessor died in front

1133
01:45:04,750 --> 01:45:08,010
of him when he was
much younger in his career.

1134
01:45:11,970 --> 01:45:16,270
When you look at the country of Iran
itself as a country that for years has

1135
01:45:16,270 --> 01:45:18,430
been trying to fight against repressive
governments.

1136
01:45:18,690 --> 01:45:22,730
And these protests being continuously shot
down.

1137
01:45:22,730 --> 01:45:25,330
And people beaten back into submission.

1138
01:45:26,230 --> 01:45:29,820
It is understandable
why the idea of history

1139
01:45:29,820 --> 01:45:33,910
repeating itself can
feel scary at times.

1140
01:45:35,230 --> 01:45:36,570
Did you get a sunstroke?

1141
01:45:37,110 --> 01:45:38,790
And you don't know how to get out of
there?

1142
01:45:38,870 --> 01:45:40,410
You're a movie star to me.

1143
01:45:45,150 --> 01:45:47,650
Hey, dad.

1144
01:45:47,890 --> 01:45:48,890
Do you have a job for me?

1145
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:50,150
Yes, I have a problem.

1146
01:45:50,330 --> 01:45:51,330
I wanted to talk to you.

1147
01:45:51,630 --> 01:45:52,010
Go ahead.

1148
01:45:52,010 --> 01:45:54,370
I brought a series of accessories.

1149
01:45:54,970 --> 01:45:56,310
Now I don't know who to talk to.

1150
01:45:56,910 --> 01:45:58,370
I have another location there.

1151
01:45:58,470 --> 01:45:59,800
I have to take a series of things.

1152
01:45:59,830 --> 01:46:01,470
And then there's the issue of this movie.

1153
01:46:01,530 --> 01:46:02,250
I don't know what it is.

1154
01:46:02,370 --> 01:46:03,650
I don't know what to do with it.

1155
01:46:04,410 --> 01:46:06,270
How did you find out about it?

1156
01:46:06,710 --> 01:46:07,070
Sharom.

1157
01:46:07,410 --> 01:46:08,970
Didn't Sharom come to ask you about it?

1158
01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:10,730
He came with an idea.

1159
01:46:10,930 --> 01:46:12,730
He was just checking the clothes of the
actor.

1160
01:46:13,370 --> 01:46:14,370
I see.

1161
01:46:15,130 --> 01:46:16,130
Wait a minute.

1162
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:17,870
Please.

1163
01:46:17,870 --> 01:46:19,110
Can I talk to you for a second?

1164
01:46:20,290 --> 01:46:22,010
Please take a look at this too.

1165
01:46:23,850 --> 01:46:24,850
Wait a minute.

1166
01:46:33,980 --> 01:46:35,000
A car.

1167
01:46:40,470 --> 01:46:42,910
He wants to give a gift to Parviz.

1168
01:46:56,630 --> 01:47:00,910
If you don't want a fire, don't leave
Kebri and Tocho alone.

1169
01:47:00,910 --> 01:47:02,910
If you want a car, take a car.

1170
01:47:04,970 --> 01:47:06,630
But I don't have money.

1171
01:47:06,950 --> 01:47:07,390
I live in the field.

1172
01:47:07,390 --> 01:47:07,410
You don't have money.

1173
01:47:07,410 --> 01:47:10,570
Everything is fine.

1174
01:47:11,330 --> 01:47:12,330
I like it.

1175
01:47:13,210 --> 01:47:14,210
I hope I get to do it.

1176
01:47:18,500 --> 01:47:19,500
I get it.

1177
01:47:19,540 --> 01:47:20,260
I get what you mean.

1178
01:47:20,340 --> 01:47:21,840
But in general, you did well.

1179
01:47:22,980 --> 01:47:24,020
Is this the same one?

1180
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:24,520
No.

1181
01:47:24,700 --> 01:47:25,700
Not this one.

1182
01:47:26,020 --> 01:47:26,760
The direct one.

1183
01:47:26,860 --> 01:47:27,860
How did you get it?

1184
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:29,260
It's the same one.

1185
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:30,320
Where is it?

1186
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:18,280
And one of the things that Shiram mentions
in an interview is the enduring beauty of

1187
01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:23,480
Iranian cinema, its power to express
social and political truths through

1188
01:48:23,480 --> 01:48:30,220
ambiguity and poetry, he says I think the
unique aesthetics and refinements of

1189
01:48:30,220 --> 01:48:35,540
Iranian cinema have very much to do with
our culture, a culture that is so complex

1190
01:48:35,540 --> 01:48:38,640
in the sense that nothing
is just at face value,

1191
01:48:38,640 --> 01:48:41,700
nothing is as simple
as what it appears to be.

1192
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:46,800
There's always something deeper,
there's always details, symbols,

1193
01:48:47,020 --> 01:48:51,800
images that pervade every aspect of their
culture.

1194
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:56,300
And so he says that he
thinks when it comes to

1195
01:48:56,300 --> 01:48:59,580
cinema, it makes it
refined and multi-layered.

1196
01:48:59,820 --> 01:49:07,280
And considering how his films seem like
they might have a simple story,

1197
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:12,380
like for example this one about someone
potentially have a really bad day on a

1198
01:49:12,380 --> 01:49:16,800
film set, there's clearly so much more
than that and so many more details that

1199
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:22,160
are woven throughout the film and lots of
symbolism, lots of references.

1200
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:29,180
And mysteries that feel
unexplained and strange like this giant

1201
01:49:29,180 --> 01:49:32,760
cup the armorer is following
as he is walking through sets.

1202
01:49:39,010 --> 01:49:47,010
And I'd just like to pause here quick,
because I really love the way you see some

1203
01:49:47,010 --> 01:49:50,930
of the different scenes
converging and also

1204
01:49:50,930 --> 01:49:54,370
getting a little bit more
of that fourth world.

1205
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:55,390
We are all broken.

1206
01:50:32,410 --> 01:50:33,450
You were working in Hayat.

1207
01:50:35,220 --> 01:50:37,690
A girl told me to bring the bed here.

1208
01:50:38,070 --> 01:50:39,990
She had a question.

1209
01:50:48,050 --> 01:50:51,330
I didn't give you the cigarette that was
there.

1210
01:50:52,170 --> 01:50:53,250
Where did you take it from?

1211
01:50:56,950 --> 01:50:57,950
Parveen!

1212
01:50:58,290 --> 01:50:59,070
Parveen!

1213
01:50:59,150 --> 01:51:00,150
Bring your bag.

1214
01:51:00,710 --> 01:51:02,890
At least let me know what's going on.

1215
01:51:03,050 --> 01:51:04,070
Is the reaction right?

1216
01:51:04,590 --> 01:51:05,590
Yes, it is.

1217
01:51:08,250 --> 01:51:09,630
I'll be back.

1218
01:51:10,870 --> 01:51:13,710
Don't you trust your game?

1219
01:51:16,190 --> 01:51:18,850
It's your habit of not working.

1220
01:51:20,610 --> 01:51:22,090
Why don't you give me a movie script?

1221
01:51:26,130 --> 01:51:29,770
Why are we so busy now?

1222
01:51:35,290 --> 01:51:39,420
During the film, we see
the armorer trying his best to

1223
01:51:39,420 --> 01:51:42,870
potentially prevent something
really terrible from happening.

1224
01:51:43,510 --> 01:51:49,870
The fact that they even cite the tragic,
accidental shooting on the set with Aleph

1225
01:51:49,870 --> 01:51:53,650
Baldwin really puts
into perspective just how

1226
01:51:53,650 --> 01:51:57,150
important his job is and
how seriously he takes it.

1227
01:51:57,150 --> 01:52:05,090
But unfortunately for him, it feels almost
impossible for him to do the work he's

1228
01:52:05,090 --> 01:52:22,230
supposed to do because of very simple and
silly things like not having an ID to get

1229
01:52:22,230 --> 01:52:26,950
on set that he needs and not being able to
find the right person who has the ID.

1230
01:52:26,950 --> 01:52:31,370
You can see how quickly
the chain of command can

1231
01:52:31,380 --> 01:52:34,890
fall apart when there's
a lack of communication.

1232
01:52:34,970 --> 01:52:38,950
And on big productions like this,
it has to happen all the time.

1233
01:52:45,650 --> 01:52:50,390
And while it might not be intentional,
that also makes me think of films that are

1234
01:52:50,390 --> 01:52:59,370
about the sometimes ineffective and
perplexing ways that the government can work.

1235
01:53:00,030 --> 01:53:01,670
Things like In the Loop.

1236
01:53:01,750 --> 01:53:03,490
Or... Shin Godzilla.

1237
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:10,310
A lot of those are about, you know,
the government being very fallible and

1238
01:53:10,310 --> 01:53:14,210
oftentimes ridiculous in what they're
doing.

1239
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:39,520
And so it's easy to wonder if,
while not a glaring theme on the surface,

1240
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:43,000
if that's perhaps another
one of these hidden elements

1241
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:46,080
underneath that Shram is
trying to express in this film.

1242
01:53:52,290 --> 01:54:00,990
It also makes you appreciate... how...
where you begin a story... can really tell

1243
01:54:00,990 --> 01:54:07,560
you so much about what's going on... or
how little information..

1244
01:54:07,560 --> 01:54:08,720
you might not have.

1245
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:15,840
In his short films... like the...
Dragonfly Storm...

1246
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:17,400
Shram's music.

1247
01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:21,220
You continuously see... events...
moving... around.

1248
01:54:21,220 --> 01:54:26,320
You continuously see events happen,
and then as the film progresses,

1249
01:54:26,460 --> 01:54:29,080
it shows you more and more of what
happened before then.

1250
01:54:29,420 --> 01:54:33,260
So going into that non-linear storytelling
that he's such a big fan of.

1251
01:56:52,390 --> 01:56:58,370
One particular article I found mentions
that the way he does multiple perspectives

1252
01:56:58,370 --> 01:57:02,470
is the long-awaited This is the third
counterpart to the, quote, Rashomon

1253
01:57:02,470 --> 01:57:08,690
effect, which emphasizes the unknowability
of reality or various points of view by

1254
01:57:08,690 --> 01:57:13,050
showing different characters and how they
perceive the same event in different ways.

1255
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:30,140
An example here being when the girl is
having her costume fixed and we see it

1256
01:57:30,140 --> 01:57:33,680
from the perspective inside
of the costume where it

1257
01:57:33,680 --> 01:57:36,500
looks like she has entered
into this other world.

1258
01:57:36,500 --> 01:57:41,180
And then we see it from the perspective of
someone that's just an onlooker who would

1259
01:57:41,180 --> 01:57:46,280
just see two people underneath this dark
cloak together in front of everyone.

1260
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:52,220
And so you don't get to see this conversation
or magical element in the same way.

1261
02:00:31,860 --> 02:00:39,620
And the fact that our young actress has a
background as a magician and is the one

1262
02:00:39,620 --> 02:00:44,640
that makes the rabbits appear and makes
herself disappear even at one point,

1263
02:00:50,090 --> 02:00:53,790
makes her feel
essential to the magical

1264
02:00:53,790 --> 02:00:59,090
elements and Escher-esque
elements of the film.

1265
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:06,480
It is lovely when you finally get to see
it.

1266
02:04:06,500 --> 02:04:10,320
You see the rabbits make their various
appearances throughout the film.

1267
02:04:11,300 --> 02:04:16,310
Both as real life cute,
adorable rabbits and these

1268
02:04:16,310 --> 02:04:20,720
slightly unsettling humans
in rabbit head costumes.

1269
02:04:52,910 --> 02:04:59,380
Well, everyone who walks the
path, everyone who walks the

1270
02:04:59,380 --> 02:05:03,490
path, walk slowly so that
your voice doesn't get too loud.

1271
02:05:05,290 --> 02:05:11,770
Now the scene that I have shown you in the
monitor, we are going to practice it.

1272
02:05:13,530 --> 02:05:18,310
For everyone, either I am
the one who speaks a little

1273
02:05:18,310 --> 02:05:20,530
bit and someone else is
shooting from the other side.

1274
02:05:20,530 --> 02:05:22,490
May it be you, or I am the one who is
shooting.

1275
02:05:22,490 --> 02:05:26,170
Ladies, ladies, you are six people.

1276
02:05:26,410 --> 02:05:27,430
You are seven people.

1277
02:05:28,030 --> 02:05:29,150
Is that enough?

1278
02:05:30,330 --> 02:05:31,330
Is that enough?

1279
02:05:33,270 --> 02:05:39,210
Public discontent with the regime will
continue to manifest and intensify because

1280
02:05:39,210 --> 02:05:42,000
the Iranian government
continues to not solve

1281
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:45,550
many of the underlying
issues in the country.

1282
02:05:45,650 --> 02:05:50,030
Things that would be necessary to actually
restructure.

1283
02:05:50,030 --> 02:05:50,510
To act as a resistance organization.

1284
02:05:50,510 --> 02:05:56,230
...their political economy and create
relief for many Iranian people.

1285
02:05:59,050 --> 02:06:06,570
Instead, the government tries to use
propaganda and indoctrination campaigns to

1286
02:06:06,570 --> 02:06:13,210
re-ideologize the Iranian people and try
to renew their commitment to the regime's

1287
02:06:13,210 --> 02:06:17,410
principles as opposed to making any actual
change.

1288
02:06:18,230 --> 02:06:23,190
They argue things like the United States
is waging economic and psychological war

1289
02:06:23,190 --> 02:06:27,410
against Iran and responsible for the poor
domestic...

1290
02:06:28,010 --> 02:06:32,990
And while there is of course the hope that
things will get better and real important

1291
02:06:32,990 --> 02:06:40,430
change will be made that will help many of
those living in Iran, there is also the

1292
02:06:40,430 --> 02:06:47,370
possibility that the regime could get even
harsher intensifying the repression.

1293
02:07:37,120 --> 02:07:43,380
In the scene towards the end here,
we also see an Esher painting in the

1294
02:07:43,380 --> 02:07:48,220
background as the armorist is running
around.

1295
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:52,980
...the world is going to be destroyed.

1296
02:07:53,020 --> 02:07:54,540
...the world is going to be destroyed.

1297
02:09:00,100 --> 02:09:05,880
So Iranian filmmakers continue to make
films both in their country and others

1298
02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:10,800
feel the need to escape
ideological control and some of

1299
02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:14,520
them have even faced prison
sentences upon returning home.

1300
02:09:16,980 --> 02:09:22,900
This year, four Iranian films were
competing for the Academy Award for Best

1301
02:09:22,900 --> 02:09:27,420
International Feature and the only one
that was actually represented by the

1302
02:09:27,420 --> 02:09:31,240
Islamic Republic was Cause of Death
Unknown by Ali.

1303
02:09:32,140 --> 02:09:37,980
Although two films, one from Iranian
director Jafar Panahi, It Was Just an

1304
02:09:37,980 --> 02:09:44,800
Accident, as well as the film The Voice of
Hin Rajab, were nominated in the category.

1305
02:09:46,780 --> 02:09:50,360
As of yet, those winners have not been
decided.

1306
02:09:51,300 --> 02:09:54,660
Considering the turmoil
in the Middle East, having

1307
02:09:54,660 --> 02:09:58,360
those voices represented
feels incredibly important.

1308
02:11:37,060 --> 02:11:43,040
And I love the end of the
film here where we begin to

1309
02:11:43,040 --> 02:11:47,380
wrap up some of the other
stories and come back to Sarah,

1310
02:11:50,520 --> 02:11:55,400
who's uncovered the
fact that her husband tried

1311
02:11:55,400 --> 02:11:59,300
to kill her and is hell-bent
on getting revenge.

1312
02:12:03,950 --> 02:12:08,550
Using this gun that may or may not have
been meant for her.

1313
02:12:17,220 --> 02:12:24,700
And considering the many issues that women
in Iran have faced and continue to face,

1314
02:12:25,580 --> 02:12:37,800
it does feel revolutionary to have this
end with her and allowing her to get some

1315
02:12:37,800 --> 02:12:41,840
semblance of revenge
after being cooped up and

1316
02:12:41,840 --> 02:12:45,980
suffering for so long under
this very unhappy marriage.

1317
02:12:53,880 --> 02:12:54,880
Are you afraid?

1318
02:13:09,360 --> 02:13:10,360
Of who?

1319
02:13:11,860 --> 02:13:13,200
Don't touch me.

1320
02:13:15,480 --> 02:13:16,740
Don't touch me.

1321
02:13:18,360 --> 02:13:20,780
I know that you broke my car.

1322
02:13:30,830 --> 02:13:35,730
And the shorts that are included as
special features on this release are

1323
02:13:35,730 --> 02:13:43,410
really so incredible in the way they
showcase his growth as a director.

1324
02:13:43,590 --> 02:13:48,290
For The Dragonfly Storm, you see same
events from different perspectives.

1325
02:13:48,410 --> 02:13:51,170
You're slowly given more and more
information.

1326
02:13:51,170 --> 02:13:53,270
You have this non-linear storytelling.

1327
02:13:54,050 --> 02:13:57,410
Even very silly, sort
of whimsical elements

1328
02:13:57,410 --> 02:14:00,930
like getting the point
of view of the dragonfly.

1329
02:14:02,550 --> 02:14:08,070
Then you have Limit the Circle,
which comes back to the long takes.

1330
02:14:08,070 --> 02:14:12,670
And is set in a film slash performing arts
school.

1331
02:14:12,790 --> 02:14:18,000
And has a similar dream-like
quality to his films of these

1332
02:14:18,000 --> 02:14:21,510
loops of time and events
kind of falling in on each other.

1333
02:14:22,410 --> 02:14:26,650
Han really challenges the ideas about what
is play and what is real life.

1334
02:14:27,910 --> 02:14:30,650
And Nashim mentions
that Limit the Circle

1335
02:14:30,650 --> 02:14:34,690
is really the blueprint
for his future work.

1336
02:14:35,510 --> 02:14:40,490
And then you have Andesie, from 2007,
which is also based on an M.C.

1337
02:14:40,490 --> 02:14:44,670
Escher painting, which
deals with strained

1338
02:14:44,670 --> 02:14:48,530
relationships, strained
marital relationships.

1339
02:14:48,630 --> 02:14:54,730
You have multiple screens going on at
once, all with one-shot takes,

1340
02:14:55,730 --> 02:15:01,390
dealing with mistaken identities and these
cyclical contained universes.

1341
02:15:02,790 --> 02:15:09,690
So when you watch them together,
with his latest work, you really get a

1342
02:15:09,690 --> 02:15:16,780
beautiful portrait of how
he's grown as a filmmaker

1343
02:15:16,780 --> 02:15:22,550
and how so many of the
ideas he's had have evolved.

1344
02:15:22,830 --> 02:15:36,090
And how he contributes to the reputation
and structure and look of Iranian cinema,

1345
02:15:36,370 --> 02:15:39,270
but at something that's entirely new.

1346
02:15:50,700 --> 02:15:57,300
And here at the end of the film,
we see Sara get revenge on her repression.

1347
02:16:47,620 --> 02:16:54,580
And then here we also see
our magician slash actress-to-be,

1348
02:16:54,580 --> 02:16:58,520
and she also receives
freedom in her own right.

1349
02:17:01,730 --> 02:17:07,290
Thank you all so much for listening to
this commentary track for Black Rabbit,

1350
02:17:07,450 --> 02:17:07,990
White Rabbit.

1351
02:17:08,250 --> 02:17:15,210
I hope that you enjoyed this exploration
of Iranian cinema, Iranian history and

1352
02:17:15,210 --> 02:17:18,210
current events, and of course,
Sharam Malkari's work.

1353
02:17:18,410 --> 02:17:22,590
If you haven't checked out some of the
other special features, including the

1354
02:17:22,590 --> 02:17:27,330
short films I talked a little
bit about, as well as the

1355
02:17:27,330 --> 02:17:31,530
writing about Sharam and
his work, I really suggest it.

1356
02:17:31,610 --> 02:17:37,810
And continue to enjoy and to suggest that
people explore other Iranian cinema,

1357
02:17:39,090 --> 02:17:43,490
pay attention to politics and current
events going on there.

1358
02:17:45,050 --> 02:17:55,390
I think Sharam does a really beautiful job
at exploring cyclical nature of life and

1359
02:17:55,390 --> 02:18:05,530
history, the oftentimes blurred lines
between reality and fiction, especially

1360
02:18:05,530 --> 02:18:10,990
thinking about the propaganda that is
often used so frequently in Iran.

1361
02:18:13,390 --> 02:18:18,940
Having a sense of truth
and trying to understand how

1362
02:18:18,960 --> 02:18:23,550
subjective truth often
is, is often very difficult.

1363
02:18:23,690 --> 02:18:29,510
And I think he explores that in really
interesting ways that don't feel

1364
02:18:29,510 --> 02:18:38,290
necessarily heavy, like other directors
might tackle the same kind of subject matter.

1365
02:18:39,130 --> 02:18:44,290
There's an element of
whimsy and holding the

1366
02:18:44,290 --> 02:18:48,070
good and the bad and
the weird all together.

1367
02:18:48,350 --> 02:18:50,550
And I think he really excels at that.

1368
02:18:50,790 --> 02:18:58,650
So thank you again for taking the time and
enjoy the rest of the release.