1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.LT 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.LT 3 00:00:28,820 --> 00:00:30,780 25-43 with 2? 4 00:00:32,323 --> 00:00:33,950 That's correct. 5 00:00:46,212 --> 00:00:48,214 Alright, 10-4, copy that. 6 00:01:41,476 --> 00:01:44,437 You know what? This is them. 7 00:01:44,521 --> 00:01:48,441 I'm on the 42 fence line, headin' east right now. 8 00:01:48,525 --> 00:01:50,527 Alright, 10-4, copy that. 9 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:37,656 No, you're good. Sit right down in this chair right here. 10 00:02:37,740 --> 00:02:38,825 Perfect. 11 00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:40,702 Let's see. Perfect. 12 00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:55,049 Rodney Scott. So, starting in 1992, 13 00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:58,845 early on, I was a border patrol agent here in San Diego. 14 00:02:58,928 --> 00:03:01,931 Later the chief patrol agent in El Centro, 15 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:04,893 then I bounced back to San Diego as the chief. 16 00:03:04,976 --> 00:03:07,103 And then, ultimately, I was asked to be the chief 17 00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:10,190 of the U.S. Border Patrol in February of 2020. 18 00:03:21,951 --> 00:03:23,912 At the baseline level... 19 00:03:24,662 --> 00:03:28,541 the United States Border Patrol is charged with protecting America. 20 00:03:29,667 --> 00:03:33,296 It's literally just knowing who and what is coming into our home. 21 00:03:34,005 --> 00:03:38,509 You don't know if it's drug smugglers, you don't know if it's human traffickers, 22 00:03:38,593 --> 00:03:40,428 you don't know if it's terrorists. 23 00:03:41,137 --> 00:03:42,847 And if you don't have anybody there 24 00:03:42,930 --> 00:03:46,476 figuring out who and what is coming into our country... 25 00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:48,353 we are at risk. 26 00:03:56,402 --> 00:03:59,113 So, we have 328 ports of entry 27 00:03:59,197 --> 00:04:01,824 where people are supposed to come and go from the country... 28 00:04:03,243 --> 00:04:06,162 and Border Patrol's job is just to make sure they do. 29 00:05:11,602 --> 00:05:13,396 He was an illegal immigrant 30 00:05:13,479 --> 00:05:16,524 that officers were trying to take back to Mexico, 31 00:05:16,607 --> 00:05:19,360 but at the border, something went wrong. 32 00:05:19,444 --> 00:05:22,989 The incident happened at the San Ysidro port of entry. 33 00:05:23,072 --> 00:05:26,743 The man is now in critical condition at a local hospital 34 00:05:26,826 --> 00:05:29,454 and is not expected to survive. 35 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,624 I think it was around noon. 36 00:05:34,292 --> 00:05:37,670 We had heard something from the news about an in-custody death at the border 37 00:05:37,754 --> 00:05:40,089 from the night before. 38 00:05:41,257 --> 00:05:45,887 Somebody was on life support, a Mr. Anastasio Hernández. 39 00:05:46,763 --> 00:05:49,474 Normally, in a regular homicide investigation, 40 00:05:49,557 --> 00:05:52,643 usually, there's a briefing that occurs right after the event. 41 00:05:52,727 --> 00:05:53,936 Once they know that, 42 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:56,022 that death has occurred or death is imminent, 43 00:05:56,105 --> 00:05:57,648 then the homicide unit will come out. 44 00:05:58,858 --> 00:06:02,236 But, in this case, the Border Patrol didn't tell us about it. 45 00:06:03,613 --> 00:06:07,658 And then we were told that it was treated like a medical event, 46 00:06:07,742 --> 00:06:10,870 so people had gone home from the night shift, 47 00:06:10,953 --> 00:06:12,789 witnesses weren't held. 48 00:06:13,164 --> 00:06:15,208 And the crime scene had already been cleaned up. 49 00:06:15,291 --> 00:06:16,334 I mean, it was basically gone. 50 00:06:16,417 --> 00:06:18,294 There was no crime scene investigation. 51 00:06:19,170 --> 00:06:23,841 So, we did not have a clear picture of everything that occurred there. 52 00:09:23,354 --> 00:09:28,401 Last month, Anastasio Hernández died after being shocked with a stun gun 53 00:09:28,484 --> 00:09:31,279 by U.S. Border Patrol agents. 54 00:09:31,362 --> 00:09:34,073 First of all, who was Anastasio Hernández? 55 00:09:34,156 --> 00:09:37,577 He was 42 years old, he'd been in the U.S. for 26 years, 56 00:09:37,660 --> 00:09:40,705 crossed as a teenager, illegally, to work here. 57 00:09:40,788 --> 00:09:43,082 He built pools here, he had a wife here, 58 00:09:43,165 --> 00:09:46,752 and had five U.S. citizen children who were living here. 59 00:09:46,836 --> 00:09:51,048 In a few weeks, we can expect a civil lawsuit on behalf of the family. 60 00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:01,559 It was Maria whom I met. 61 00:10:03,311 --> 00:10:05,896 And she was, of course, distraught. 62 00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:13,404 But she basically said, "I want justice." 63 00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:18,951 And as I took the case, 64 00:10:19,035 --> 00:10:23,414 I understood that with a civil case like this 65 00:10:23,497 --> 00:10:25,666 against the Border Patrol... 66 00:10:26,626 --> 00:10:27,877 it's like... 67 00:10:28,878 --> 00:10:30,254 killing the king. 68 00:10:31,005 --> 00:10:33,633 You wanna make sure that you don't miss. 69 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,891 We knew this may be difficult... 70 00:10:43,517 --> 00:10:49,940 but we also knew from the very beginning that there was something more to this case 71 00:10:50,024 --> 00:10:54,362 because the Border Patrol was requested to turn over 72 00:10:54,445 --> 00:10:57,448 certain evidence and information, 73 00:10:57,531 --> 00:11:01,661 and in certain critical respects, they failed to do so. 74 00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:08,668 Early on in the investigation, we had some witness video, 75 00:11:08,751 --> 00:11:11,170 but you couldn't really see anything. 76 00:11:12,129 --> 00:11:15,174 So, we wanted to get video from the Border Patrol 77 00:11:15,257 --> 00:11:17,009 to see what happened at that spot. 78 00:11:19,095 --> 00:11:21,931 It's a section of the border called Whiskey 2. 79 00:11:22,598 --> 00:11:26,435 And this is right where they do the deportation walkout. 80 00:11:26,977 --> 00:11:30,648 So, we assumed they would have cameras there, which they did. 81 00:11:33,734 --> 00:11:37,947 But, they said they did not have the video from that camera... 82 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:41,200 and we kept getting the runaround. 83 00:11:42,493 --> 00:11:45,121 They said they didn't know how to use the system... 84 00:11:46,038 --> 00:11:48,499 they gave us the wrong location at one point. 85 00:11:50,167 --> 00:11:53,546 After a while, they did provide other video 86 00:11:53,629 --> 00:11:56,257 from before they transported Mr. Hernández... 87 00:11:57,174 --> 00:11:59,176 but that was the best we got. 88 00:12:02,471 --> 00:12:04,306 It was frustrating. 89 00:12:04,682 --> 00:12:07,560 You think of the busiest border in the world, 90 00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:10,271 we could get that video and that it would exist... 91 00:12:12,148 --> 00:12:13,983 and we never got it. 92 00:12:31,459 --> 00:12:32,585 Yes, I do. 93 00:12:33,335 --> 00:12:36,505 It was an illegal alien that Border Patrol agents arrested. 94 00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:38,007 They were sending him back south, 95 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:39,842 and he kinda flipped out. 96 00:12:39,925 --> 00:12:43,345 Multiple agents responded, and ultimately, he ended up... 97 00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:44,930 he ended up passing away. 98 00:12:52,313 --> 00:12:56,025 I don't have all the specifics of those, but I know at least one of the cameras 99 00:12:56,108 --> 00:12:59,487 that they think something was erased wasn't a real camera. 100 00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:02,823 It was a decoy camera that had been installed years and years ago 101 00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:06,243 when the Border Patrol had a sub-office right there at the port of entry, 102 00:13:06,327 --> 00:13:08,954 and it was to deter people from jumping the pedestrian gate 103 00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:10,372 and running north, 104 00:13:10,456 --> 00:13:14,502 but it, literally, was like 1990s-era fake camera, 105 00:13:14,585 --> 00:13:16,796 that was never hooked to anything. 106 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,007 San Diego has very limited video capability, 107 00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:21,884 and most of it is pretty outdated. 108 00:13:21,967 --> 00:13:23,969 There was nothing that was-- 109 00:13:24,053 --> 00:13:28,432 I've not seen any evidence whatsoever that anything was deleted or is missing. 110 00:13:33,187 --> 00:13:35,815 There's no deleted video. No. 111 00:13:46,450 --> 00:13:48,786 10News has uncovered new details tonight 112 00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:52,122 about the immigrant who died after being deported. 113 00:13:52,206 --> 00:13:54,124 The autopsy results have now been released 114 00:13:54,208 --> 00:13:57,586 on the controversial death of Anastasio Hernández. 115 00:13:57,670 --> 00:14:01,090 But it only adds to the mystery of what actually happened. 116 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:07,471 The San Diego medical examiner 117 00:14:07,555 --> 00:14:09,890 is listing the cause of death as a heart attack 118 00:14:09,974 --> 00:14:12,268 due to the altercation with law enforcement. 119 00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:17,439 But the coroner also found methamphetamines in his blood, 120 00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:20,985 which raised the question, had methamphetamines somehow contributed 121 00:14:21,068 --> 00:14:23,028 to the altercation? 122 00:14:27,408 --> 00:14:31,287 Would counsel please introduce yourselves and state who you represent? 123 00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:34,540 Gene Iredale for the plaintiffs, 124 00:14:35,499 --> 00:14:39,128 and I'm here with Maria Puga, who is the widow. 125 00:14:42,923 --> 00:14:46,468 Now, you understand that you're under oath? 126 00:14:46,552 --> 00:14:48,804 -I do. -And that that oath requires you 127 00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,639 to tell the truth in this deposition? 128 00:14:51,181 --> 00:14:52,182 Yes. 129 00:14:53,601 --> 00:14:57,021 Let's talk about the encounter with Mr. Hernández. 130 00:14:57,730 --> 00:15:01,984 From your observations of Anastasio's demeanor, 131 00:15:02,067 --> 00:15:04,695 he did not appear to be drunk, correct? 132 00:15:05,362 --> 00:15:07,489 He did not appear to be drunk. 133 00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:11,702 And you found no weapons? 134 00:15:11,785 --> 00:15:13,579 -No. -Right? Found no drugs? 135 00:15:13,662 --> 00:15:14,663 No. 136 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,920 And so, he did not appear to be under the influence of drugs, correct? 137 00:15:21,962 --> 00:15:23,964 I don't know that to be a fact. 138 00:15:27,134 --> 00:15:31,931 At this point, then, you drove him to the area known as Whiskey 2? 139 00:15:32,014 --> 00:15:34,975 -Yes, sir. -He was going to be returned to Mexico. 140 00:15:35,059 --> 00:15:38,020 -Yes, sir. -So, you began to take off 141 00:15:38,103 --> 00:15:40,105 -the handcuffs from him. -Yes. 142 00:15:41,607 --> 00:15:47,905 Once you took off one of the handcuffs, he started to move around too much, 143 00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:51,533 for your perception of your safety, is that fair? 144 00:15:51,617 --> 00:15:52,618 Yes. 145 00:15:53,786 --> 00:15:56,080 And you grabbed Anastasio, correct? 146 00:15:56,163 --> 00:15:57,164 Yes. 147 00:15:57,998 --> 00:16:02,419 And there was a struggle between you and him? 148 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:03,921 Yes. 149 00:16:04,630 --> 00:16:06,590 He was kicking at agents. 150 00:16:06,674 --> 00:16:08,217 He was thrashing, 151 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:10,886 thrashing around like, basically, like an alligator. 152 00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,555 If you can imagine the TV show, The Crocodile Hunter, 153 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:16,141 and what an al-- what a crocodile does when it's-- 154 00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:19,561 when it gets its game and kills it, and it starts rolling and twisting. 155 00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:25,734 Do you remember if Mr. Hernández stopped resisting at any point? 156 00:16:25,818 --> 00:16:27,152 No, I don't. 157 00:16:27,236 --> 00:16:29,154 That never happened as far as you're concerned? 158 00:16:29,238 --> 00:16:31,824 As far as my memory goes, no, sir. 159 00:16:31,907 --> 00:16:34,451 So, you went in and used force? 160 00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,578 I used physical techniques, yes. 161 00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,706 You quarrel with the use of the word "force"? 162 00:16:38,789 --> 00:16:39,623 No. 163 00:16:39,707 --> 00:16:42,042 You used force, yes? 164 00:16:42,126 --> 00:16:45,546 I thought a better descriptive would be "physical techniques." 165 00:16:45,921 --> 00:16:50,175 Now, do you know the words in Spanish for, "I cannot breathe"? 166 00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:52,553 I do not. 167 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:54,930 Did you hear him say, at some point, 168 00:16:55,014 --> 00:16:57,641 -"I cannot breathe"? -I did not. 169 00:16:59,768 --> 00:17:03,022 If you're yelling and screaming, you're moving air and you're breathing. 170 00:17:03,313 --> 00:17:04,606 You at the time, I believe, 171 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:07,067 were looking out at a crowd that was gathering. 172 00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:08,569 -Is that true? -Yes. 173 00:17:11,821 --> 00:17:16,160 And the people in the crowd, some of them were saying, 174 00:17:16,242 --> 00:17:18,412 "Stop being so brutal," or words to that effect. 175 00:17:18,494 --> 00:17:20,748 "Stop what you're doing." Right. 176 00:17:20,830 --> 00:17:22,415 "Stop hitting him, stop hurting him." 177 00:17:22,499 --> 00:17:23,541 Correct. 178 00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:28,422 And I didn't understand what they were, I mean, I guess from his screaming, 179 00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:29,965 when they were, you know, when he was screaming, 180 00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:31,967 "Stop hurting me, stop punching me," whatever, 181 00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:33,510 and the crowd kinda just fueled off of that, 182 00:17:33,594 --> 00:17:36,430 and just basically repeated what he was saying. 183 00:17:36,513 --> 00:17:38,891 And I looked at him and I looked at the crowd, 184 00:17:38,974 --> 00:17:40,350 I'm like, who's pun-- 185 00:17:40,434 --> 00:17:43,395 Nobody's punching him, he's just laying on the ground, 186 00:17:43,479 --> 00:17:44,855 banging his head on the ground. 187 00:17:44,938 --> 00:17:46,690 It's all self-inflicted, 188 00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:49,735 so I didn't understand why he was, I mean, saying that. 189 00:17:49,818 --> 00:17:52,696 So, he was hitting his head on the ground? 190 00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:53,822 Yes. 191 00:17:53,906 --> 00:17:56,742 That was a primary concern, that he was injuring himself, 192 00:17:56,825 --> 00:17:59,995 and we did not want him to injure himself or injure us. 193 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:04,124 So, one of the reasons you took him down was for his own safety, correct? 194 00:18:04,208 --> 00:18:05,209 Correct. 195 00:18:05,667 --> 00:18:09,421 And the crowd foolishly thought that there was some brutality going on, 196 00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:10,589 -correct? -Right. 197 00:18:10,672 --> 00:18:12,841 And they didn't understand that Mr. Hernández 198 00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:15,135 was hitting his own head and causing this pain 199 00:18:15,219 --> 00:18:17,054 -to himself, correct? -Right. 200 00:18:17,137 --> 00:18:18,847 And they didn't understand that the agents 201 00:18:18,931 --> 00:18:21,266 were merely doing their job and nothing more, correct? 202 00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:22,726 They were trying to stop him 203 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:24,019 -from hurting himself. -Yes. 204 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:27,523 And they were able to do that until, finally, 205 00:18:27,606 --> 00:18:30,234 unfortunately, he stopped breathing, correct? 206 00:18:32,569 --> 00:18:34,363 -I-- Yes. -Yes. 207 00:18:34,446 --> 00:18:37,991 They helped him to that extent, at least. 208 00:18:38,075 --> 00:18:40,035 Thank you so much. That's all I have. 209 00:18:43,288 --> 00:18:46,917 Off the record at 1:25 p.m. 210 00:18:49,962 --> 00:18:51,755 So, at that point... 211 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,175 we had statements of the agents... 212 00:18:56,468 --> 00:19:00,305 we had a video where you couldn't see anything. 213 00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:05,894 And you have nothing more, no case. 214 00:19:38,635 --> 00:19:42,347 I've been a reporter for a long time. 215 00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:49,188 And my entire career as a journalist has been reporting on the Border Patrol. 216 00:19:51,899 --> 00:19:54,276 So, when Anastasio was killed, 217 00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:57,613 I knew that I had to look into this. 218 00:19:59,615 --> 00:20:03,785 And I started calling whoever, whoever was responsible, 219 00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:06,246 Border Patrol, San Diego Police Department, 220 00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:08,540 and there was really very little information. 221 00:20:11,084 --> 00:20:16,590 But there were eyewitnesses, and you can hear them in the videotape. 222 00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:21,094 The police had never been able to track them down. 223 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:28,393 So, for me, there was this hunt. 224 00:20:35,442 --> 00:20:37,027 I spent about a month, 225 00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:39,279 and I interviewed people south of the border... 226 00:20:40,197 --> 00:20:43,033 anybody who was associated with the case. 227 00:20:44,618 --> 00:20:49,581 And I finally found another person who was there that night. 228 00:20:51,583 --> 00:20:57,005 They were up on a bridge, and they had video. 229 00:20:59,591 --> 00:21:01,593 It was new evidence... 230 00:21:02,427 --> 00:21:05,097 but they were very scared about coming forward 231 00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:07,808 because of retaliation from the Border Patrol. 232 00:21:10,477 --> 00:21:16,441 So, the person said, "John can contact me... 233 00:21:16,525 --> 00:21:19,945 "but I'm not gonna give him the video, he can't see the video, 234 00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:24,032 but I'll talk to him and I'll tell him what I saw." 235 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:52,371 I talked to her for a long time. 236 00:22:54,039 --> 00:22:57,751 She was, at the time, 22 years old. 237 00:22:59,544 --> 00:23:02,964 And she was really scared. 238 00:23:06,968 --> 00:23:09,179 So, she put a kibosh on everything. 239 00:23:18,688 --> 00:23:19,981 Time went by... 240 00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:22,734 months. 241 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,738 But I now had her cell phone number. 242 00:23:28,073 --> 00:23:32,536 So, I would send her cases that were highly suspicious cases... 243 00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:36,665 people being shot, people being killed, people being brutalized at the border. 244 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:41,128 And I think that kinda softened her. 245 00:23:43,338 --> 00:23:46,258 It took me two years 246 00:23:46,341 --> 00:23:51,555 but she finally said, "I'll send you the video." 247 00:23:54,641 --> 00:23:59,646 So, she sent me a CD in an envelope. 248 00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:03,775 And the return address was just "Disneyland." 249 00:24:50,655 --> 00:24:53,658 Just go back to the beginning where you just started. 250 00:24:59,915 --> 00:25:05,879 In the deposition testimony, the agents say that he got up, 251 00:25:05,962 --> 00:25:07,714 he tried to attack them, 252 00:25:07,797 --> 00:25:12,093 he lunged for them, he kicked them. 253 00:25:12,177 --> 00:25:16,139 But right now, I just see somebody who's lying on the ground. 254 00:25:17,933 --> 00:25:21,269 Alright, let me just do some noise reduction here 255 00:25:21,353 --> 00:25:23,605 so we can see a little better. 256 00:25:29,027 --> 00:25:31,112 So, at this point, 257 00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:36,785 you could hear one of the agents yell, three times in a row, "Quit resisting!" 258 00:25:46,836 --> 00:25:48,672 But he's not resisting. 259 00:25:49,089 --> 00:25:53,301 So, my take on what is happening here is, 260 00:25:53,385 --> 00:25:56,179 he's not saying "Quit resisting" to Anastasio, 261 00:25:56,263 --> 00:25:57,639 he's saying "Quit resisting," 262 00:25:57,722 --> 00:25:59,975 so that everybody who's watching will think 263 00:26:00,058 --> 00:26:02,686 that this guy was being combative. 264 00:26:05,188 --> 00:26:09,234 Now, you can see agents starting to pile and punch, punch, 265 00:26:09,317 --> 00:26:11,945 you can see that arm and that fist. 266 00:26:13,238 --> 00:26:17,242 And then, one of the agents, somehow, grabs his pants. 267 00:26:22,622 --> 00:26:25,667 I mean, I can't tell what's in an agent's mind 268 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:30,755 but it just feels like they're trying to teach him a lesson somehow. 269 00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:33,800 Because he's not a threat. 270 00:26:56,406 --> 00:26:58,658 Latino community groups say they want answers 271 00:26:58,742 --> 00:27:01,911 about the death of Anastasio Hernández-Rojas. 272 00:27:06,666 --> 00:27:10,128 Previously undisclosed video from two years ago 273 00:27:10,211 --> 00:27:12,839 was obtained by reporter, John Carlos Frey, 274 00:27:12,922 --> 00:27:16,801 and aired in a national special Friday night on PBS 275 00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:19,804 has sparked fresh calls for justice in the case. 276 00:27:19,888 --> 00:27:22,682 There were similar protests in several other cities today, 277 00:27:22,766 --> 00:27:26,603 including Boston, Los Angeles, Miami, and San Francisco. 278 00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:31,149 Don't hide behind your badge! 279 00:27:31,232 --> 00:27:34,736 Don't hide behind your uniforms! 280 00:27:36,154 --> 00:27:38,865 John Carlos Frey, what is next in this case? 281 00:27:38,948 --> 00:27:41,826 I know the civil suit's filed. What is next here? 282 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:43,370 We don't know the officers' names, 283 00:27:43,453 --> 00:27:45,705 there are no criminal proceedings in this case. 284 00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:47,874 The family has been waiting for two years, 285 00:27:47,957 --> 00:27:50,210 so we're hoping that members of Congress watch this 286 00:27:50,293 --> 00:27:53,296 and push that stone up the hill a little bit further. 287 00:27:57,092 --> 00:27:59,969 We already had a civil case going on, 288 00:28:01,471 --> 00:28:04,766 but after there was a public outcry, 289 00:28:05,725 --> 00:28:09,604 the Department of Justice finally gets involved. 290 00:28:12,065 --> 00:28:14,943 They begin a Grand Jury investigation 291 00:28:15,026 --> 00:28:18,697 to assess individual criminal culpability. 292 00:28:19,948 --> 00:28:24,411 And it's happening as we continue to conduct 293 00:28:24,494 --> 00:28:27,122 depositions for the civil case. 294 00:28:29,708 --> 00:28:33,878 Now, you're aware of an ongoing Grand Jury investigation, 295 00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:35,380 is that true? 296 00:28:36,297 --> 00:28:38,591 -Yes. -And that the Grand Jury proceeding 297 00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:41,594 is a criminal investigation 298 00:28:41,678 --> 00:28:44,097 into the death of Anastasio Hernández-Rojas? 299 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:45,557 Yes. 300 00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:47,934 Alright. 301 00:28:49,477 --> 00:28:53,940 On the night of the incident with Mr. Hernández, 302 00:28:54,023 --> 00:28:59,279 is it true that you were the person who had tased him 303 00:28:59,362 --> 00:29:03,491 and who was there when he stopped breathing? 304 00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:07,120 Object, lacks foundation, and I advise you to decline to answer. 305 00:29:07,203 --> 00:29:10,206 I decline to answer based on my Fifth Amendment right. 306 00:29:11,332 --> 00:29:15,503 As soon as the tasing began, 307 00:29:15,587 --> 00:29:20,550 you turned to intercept a man and a woman 308 00:29:20,633 --> 00:29:25,013 that had a camera phone, correct? 309 00:29:25,096 --> 00:29:26,306 On the advice of counsel, 310 00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:28,558 I, unfortunately, must decline to answer the question. 311 00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:33,104 You attempted to fire the taser 312 00:29:33,188 --> 00:29:38,818 even though he was not resisting in any way? 313 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:40,904 I decline to answer this question. 314 00:29:41,529 --> 00:29:44,824 You believed that the man and the woman 315 00:29:44,908 --> 00:29:48,912 had taken video of the incident, is that right? 316 00:29:49,537 --> 00:29:50,747 On the advice of counsel, 317 00:29:50,830 --> 00:29:52,749 I, unfortunately, must decline to answer the question. 318 00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:57,629 You wanted to hurt him. Is that right? 319 00:29:58,046 --> 00:30:00,048 I decline to answer this question. 320 00:30:00,423 --> 00:30:05,678 And then, you, yourself, erased the video 321 00:30:05,762 --> 00:30:09,766 on the camera phone, correct? 322 00:30:10,225 --> 00:30:11,434 On the advice of counsel, 323 00:30:11,518 --> 00:30:13,520 I, unfortunately, must decline to answer the question. 324 00:30:13,603 --> 00:30:16,189 As soon as the Grand Jury is terminated and it takes no further action, 325 00:30:16,272 --> 00:30:18,274 I will be able to respond. 326 00:30:29,744 --> 00:30:31,120 Now that the Justice Department 327 00:30:31,204 --> 00:30:33,957 has confirmed that a Grand Jury is investigating, 328 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,294 at a press conference this morning, the family of Anastasio Hernández-Rojas 329 00:30:38,378 --> 00:30:41,589 said today it's a step in the right direction. 330 00:30:54,394 --> 00:30:58,356 It seems the Department of Justice is, in fact, doing its job, 331 00:30:58,439 --> 00:31:00,108 they committed to us that they would 332 00:31:00,191 --> 00:31:03,736 use all of their resources to investigate this case 333 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:05,780 and it appears that they are doing just that. 334 00:31:19,586 --> 00:31:21,671 10News reached out to the government attorneys, 335 00:31:21,754 --> 00:31:25,758 we were told since it's in active litigation, there is no comment. 336 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:34,517 The Grand Jury has been pending for, now, three years. 337 00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:39,230 We don't know if that is close to concluding or not. 338 00:31:39,772 --> 00:31:42,150 We've made inquiries, but we have no answers. 339 00:32:30,448 --> 00:32:32,784 The Department of Justice announced on Friday 340 00:32:32,867 --> 00:32:35,578 that no border agents will be prosecuted 341 00:32:35,662 --> 00:32:38,665 for the killing of Anastasio Hernández-Rojas. 342 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:43,252 The Department of Justice say there was insufficient evidence 343 00:32:43,336 --> 00:32:46,130 to pursue federal charges against the agents, 344 00:32:46,214 --> 00:32:50,843 even though eyewitness video showed him being tased and beaten. 345 00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:58,017 Federal officials say they do not believe agents acted with malice. 346 00:32:58,726 --> 00:33:02,438 They say the meth in his system also contributed to his death. 347 00:33:04,857 --> 00:33:09,487 This is a devastating decision for the family of Anastasio... 348 00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:12,198 but Customs and Border Protection 349 00:33:12,281 --> 00:33:17,912 has long enjoyed virtual impunity in this country. 350 00:33:38,224 --> 00:33:40,018 I'm Raul Ortiz. 351 00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:42,520 I'm the chief of the United States Border Patrol. 352 00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:52,739 We're deeply based in tradition, 353 00:33:52,822 --> 00:33:58,786 and I'm very, very proud of the fact that we've got 98 years of tradition 354 00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:02,457 that we started with and that we still hang on to. 355 00:34:03,458 --> 00:34:05,877 We like to consider ourselves sort of paramilitary, 356 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,213 and, so, we have a rank structure, 357 00:34:09,297 --> 00:34:14,092 35, 36% of my officers are prior military, 358 00:34:14,177 --> 00:34:17,013 and so, we are steep in tradition. 359 00:34:17,096 --> 00:34:20,099 Our motto's "Honor First" and we live and stand by that. 360 00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:31,319 Not at all. I think that there's a serious misunderstanding 361 00:34:31,402 --> 00:34:34,197 about what happens in some of these border environments, 362 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,614 in these communities, 363 00:34:35,697 --> 00:34:38,493 but also, we're a big law enforcement organization. 364 00:34:38,576 --> 00:34:41,536 When you think about the almost 3,000 professional staff 365 00:34:41,621 --> 00:34:45,625 and almost 20,000 Border Patrol agents, plus contractors and others, 366 00:34:45,708 --> 00:34:50,630 I mean, 24,000 people are tied to the Border Patrol, 367 00:34:50,713 --> 00:34:53,382 a 6.1 billion dollar budget 368 00:34:53,466 --> 00:34:55,802 is tied to the United States Border Patrol. 369 00:34:55,885 --> 00:35:00,640 And so, that's an awful lot of pressure, 370 00:35:00,723 --> 00:35:04,727 but it's also, I think, a high expectation 371 00:35:04,811 --> 00:35:09,816 that we're gonna do everything we can to secure our borders, 372 00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:12,527 take care of our communities, take care of each other. 373 00:35:26,207 --> 00:35:28,251 I remember it vaguely, 374 00:35:28,334 --> 00:35:30,753 not enough to have a conversation about it. 375 00:35:32,171 --> 00:35:35,424 Yeah, that was the one at Whiskey 2? Yeah. 376 00:35:51,899 --> 00:35:53,484 -And I wanna s-- -Tell them go back to-- 377 00:35:53,568 --> 00:35:54,527 -I don't-- -Yeah. 378 00:35:56,904 --> 00:36:01,909 I'd be careful stressing that because I can think of one. 379 00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:04,370 Compean, Ramos. 380 00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:11,127 They did, but it was still successfully prosecuted, so I'd-- Yeah. 381 00:36:18,593 --> 00:36:19,594 Yeah. 382 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,824 There is appropriate accountability 383 00:36:41,908 --> 00:36:45,411 and oversight in the U.S. Border Patrol, CBP, and DHS, 384 00:36:45,494 --> 00:36:48,706 and we continue to add, I think, additional oversight, 385 00:36:48,789 --> 00:36:52,752 whether it's, you know, looking at our 386 00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:55,379 use of force policies that we have in place, 387 00:36:55,463 --> 00:36:57,673 whether it's working with other organizations, 388 00:36:57,757 --> 00:37:00,384 so we continuously strive 389 00:37:00,468 --> 00:37:03,471 to be better at who we are as an organization. 390 00:37:18,152 --> 00:37:22,657 Even though the Department of Justice did not prosecute the agents, 391 00:37:23,241 --> 00:37:26,869 we were still fighting the civil case... 392 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,498 but the government had delayed 393 00:37:30,581 --> 00:37:35,586 the civil case for three years by using appeals. 394 00:37:36,295 --> 00:37:39,674 And I became concerned about losing witnesses, 395 00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:42,218 I was concerned about the passage of time. 396 00:37:43,844 --> 00:37:47,556 So, we decided to settle the civil case. 397 00:40:43,983 --> 00:40:46,944 Alright, so... 398 00:40:47,862 --> 00:40:51,740 we're gonna nerd out today about international human rights law. 399 00:40:52,074 --> 00:40:55,786 In this course, I am going to talk about what 400 00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:58,873 human rights are in terms of their legal protections. 401 00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:02,877 And part of what I want to acculturate you to, 402 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,378 is what it is you don't know, 403 00:41:05,337 --> 00:41:08,174 and what it is you would need to know 404 00:41:08,257 --> 00:41:10,301 in order to answer the question being asked. 405 00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:36,035 Border Patrol have obstructed this case as much as they could, 406 00:41:36,118 --> 00:41:39,872 and we are tired of it. 407 00:41:40,539 --> 00:41:46,504 Because it is plain to us that there is something rotten throughout the agency. 408 00:41:48,297 --> 00:41:52,343 Andrea Guerrero from the Southern Border Communities Coalition 409 00:41:52,426 --> 00:41:55,179 is my classmate from law school. 410 00:41:56,180 --> 00:42:00,226 When she told me about Anastasio's case, 411 00:42:00,309 --> 00:42:05,731 I had spent the prior 10 years litigating cases of extrajudicial killings 412 00:42:05,814 --> 00:42:08,567 in Colombia and in Guatemala, 413 00:42:08,651 --> 00:42:11,695 and it was just very familiar to me. 414 00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:14,532 And I said, "Well, have you ever considered 415 00:42:14,615 --> 00:42:17,451 bringing a case before an international court?" 416 00:42:19,161 --> 00:42:22,456 It's the only place where you can sue the United States 417 00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:24,375 for human rights abuse. 418 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,170 They cannot put anybody in prison... 419 00:42:28,254 --> 00:42:32,758 but they can challenge the entire Border Patrol system... 420 00:42:32,841 --> 00:42:38,305 because the way that we define excessive use of force in the United States 421 00:42:38,389 --> 00:42:41,809 could be a violation of international law. 422 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:32,693 In order for us to bring this case, we need to revisit the investigation... 423 00:43:32,776 --> 00:43:36,530 but also, we need to learn more 424 00:43:36,614 --> 00:43:38,991 about how the Border Patrol operates. 425 00:43:51,211 --> 00:43:56,175 So, our next guest is a very brave person. 426 00:43:57,051 --> 00:44:02,848 She worked for the U.S. Border Patrol and has now turned into a critic 427 00:44:02,931 --> 00:44:07,561 and our staunch ally in these fights, Jenn Budd. 428 00:44:07,853 --> 00:44:09,146 Yay, Jenn! 429 00:44:15,361 --> 00:44:20,532 So, Pedro was talking about how Border Patrol agents 430 00:44:20,616 --> 00:44:25,579 commit a lot of brutality and atrocious crimes against migrants, 431 00:44:25,663 --> 00:44:29,458 and yet, Border Patrol agents are never held accountable. 432 00:44:30,376 --> 00:44:33,170 Let's take the recent case that just happened. 433 00:44:33,253 --> 00:44:35,172 Young man, they claimed that he picked up a rock 434 00:44:35,255 --> 00:44:37,758 and tried to throw it at the agent, 435 00:44:37,841 --> 00:44:40,469 and so the agent had to shoot him four times and killed him. 436 00:44:41,595 --> 00:44:43,597 This is just nonsense. 437 00:44:43,889 --> 00:44:45,933 But it's not just migrants. 438 00:44:46,016 --> 00:44:50,437 This happens to U.S. citizens who come into contact with Border Patrol agents... 439 00:44:51,438 --> 00:44:54,441 and I have a problem with that. 440 00:45:07,705 --> 00:45:11,709 I was a Border Patrol agent for six years. 441 00:45:13,544 --> 00:45:16,547 I left in June of 2001. 442 00:45:25,013 --> 00:45:28,642 At the time, my choice was to take a promotion 443 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:32,187 and be quiet about some of the things 444 00:45:32,271 --> 00:45:36,108 that my boss was doing, or just quit. 445 00:45:38,110 --> 00:45:40,112 So, I ended up resigning... 446 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:47,411 and I started down this journey of trying to understand my involvement 447 00:45:47,494 --> 00:45:49,121 as a Border Patrol agent... 448 00:45:50,831 --> 00:45:56,837 because I felt like I was part of a system that is just cruel. 449 00:45:59,798 --> 00:46:02,718 And I feel guilt-ridden 450 00:46:02,801 --> 00:46:05,053 that I ever wore that uniform. 451 00:46:07,556 --> 00:46:11,602 So, my purpose became telling the truth... 452 00:46:11,685 --> 00:46:13,687 about the Border Patrol. 453 00:46:18,358 --> 00:46:20,527 Eventually, I got hooked up 454 00:46:20,611 --> 00:46:23,238 with the Southern Border Community Coalition... 455 00:46:24,907 --> 00:46:29,495 and Andrea asked me to come in and she said, 456 00:46:29,578 --> 00:46:35,083 "We want you to look at the Anastasio case to see if you can see anything." 457 00:46:36,627 --> 00:46:40,506 And Maria Puga, Anastasio's widow, happened to be there. 458 00:46:41,924 --> 00:46:44,343 I told her what I was gonna do 459 00:46:44,843 --> 00:46:47,137 and I said, "Well, I don't know if I'm gonna find anything." 460 00:46:49,056 --> 00:46:53,018 And Maria threw her arms around me and just started crying, 461 00:46:53,101 --> 00:46:56,230 and said, "I knew all Border Patrol agents couldn't be bad." 462 00:46:57,898 --> 00:47:00,901 So, that's how I became involved. 463 00:47:07,115 --> 00:47:08,325 Zoe. 464 00:47:09,284 --> 00:47:10,702 Come here, Zozo. 465 00:47:11,370 --> 00:47:16,166 Good girl, you're such a good girl. You're such a good girl, Zozo. 466 00:49:40,852 --> 00:49:44,022 Hi, Mr. Frey. My name is Jenn Budd. 467 00:49:44,106 --> 00:49:47,609 I am a former agent with the United States Border Patrol. 468 00:49:49,069 --> 00:49:53,865 I was recently asked to look at the Anastasio Hernández case. 469 00:49:54,366 --> 00:49:57,494 My understanding is you've done quite a bit of reporting on it, 470 00:49:57,577 --> 00:50:03,208 and there's something that I don't think you all are aware of. 471 00:50:08,422 --> 00:50:13,051 Did you ever encounter the acronym, CIT, 472 00:50:13,427 --> 00:50:16,430 for Critical Incident Team? 473 00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:21,727 I called a couple of agents I knew, 474 00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:25,272 and one had 20 years and was about to retire 475 00:50:25,355 --> 00:50:27,524 and had never heard of it. 476 00:50:29,401 --> 00:50:31,987 But, in the court filing, 477 00:50:32,070 --> 00:50:35,490 in the federal court filing of the civil trial, 478 00:50:35,574 --> 00:50:39,661 there was one mention in the entire investigation 479 00:50:39,745 --> 00:50:43,707 by the defense attorney for the agents: 480 00:50:44,624 --> 00:50:49,504 "I have reviewed the San Diego Police Department investigation report 481 00:50:49,588 --> 00:50:53,300 and the Border Patrol CIT Report," and I was like... 482 00:50:54,134 --> 00:50:55,093 "What is this?" 483 00:50:56,887 --> 00:50:59,056 The family didn't know what the CIT report was, 484 00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:02,225 the attorneys didn't know what the CIT report was. 485 00:51:02,809 --> 00:51:07,022 It's not just like a human resources report? 486 00:51:07,355 --> 00:51:08,982 I don't know. 487 00:51:09,566 --> 00:51:14,196 But there's no forward-facing information from the agency 488 00:51:14,279 --> 00:51:16,281 about what a CIT team is. 489 00:51:16,740 --> 00:51:19,534 I found one government document 490 00:51:19,618 --> 00:51:24,039 and that's the Use of Force Policy Handbook from 2010, 491 00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:29,544 which says... "The RO," meaning the supervisor in charge of the scene, 492 00:51:29,628 --> 00:51:32,380 "may initiate a parallel investigation 493 00:51:32,464 --> 00:51:36,468 into an incident via a Critical Incident Team." 494 00:51:37,636 --> 00:51:39,054 And I was like... 495 00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:41,431 "Huh." 496 00:51:41,515 --> 00:51:45,477 Because, in 2014, CBP and Border Patrol 497 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,980 come out with a new Use of Force Manual. 498 00:51:50,023 --> 00:51:52,651 And CIT is removed completely from in there. 499 00:51:54,152 --> 00:51:55,987 They just got rid of it. 500 00:51:56,571 --> 00:51:58,115 But they still exist? 501 00:51:58,198 --> 00:51:59,866 I don't know. 502 00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:06,081 You have to find agents that are willing to come forward and talk. 503 00:52:56,965 --> 00:52:59,217 Hi, I was trying to reach Mr. -- please? 504 00:53:00,510 --> 00:53:02,429 Hi, my name is John Carlos Frey. 505 00:53:02,512 --> 00:53:06,892 I am a journalist working on a story about Anastasio Hernández-Ro-- 506 00:53:10,187 --> 00:53:11,396 Hello? 507 00:53:17,944 --> 00:53:19,613 My name is John Carlos Frey. 508 00:53:19,696 --> 00:53:21,781 It's a case of about a dozen years ago 509 00:53:21,865 --> 00:53:24,326 and I would really love to talk to you about that. 510 00:53:40,717 --> 00:53:42,219 Continue straight. 511 00:53:49,351 --> 00:53:50,352 Hi. 512 00:53:51,102 --> 00:53:52,020 Mr. --? I'm a journalist. 513 00:53:52,479 --> 00:53:54,522 My name is John Carlos Frey. 514 00:53:54,606 --> 00:53:57,567 We're doing a story on Anastasio Hernández-Rojas. 515 00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:04,282 In 12 miles, exit right. 516 00:54:09,496 --> 00:54:11,665 It's about Anastasio Hernández-Rojas. 517 00:54:11,748 --> 00:54:13,541 It's a case that happened about a dozen years ago. 518 00:54:13,625 --> 00:54:14,626 He was involved-- 519 00:54:21,174 --> 00:54:23,593 In 19 miles, turn left. 520 00:54:27,889 --> 00:54:30,100 Hi, Mr. --. Hi. 521 00:54:32,394 --> 00:54:34,187 -I'm a journalist. -I know who you are. 522 00:54:34,271 --> 00:54:36,314 We're not gonna talk, so thank you for your time. 523 00:54:36,398 --> 00:54:37,524 Okay. 524 00:54:50,578 --> 00:54:53,290 Great. No one will talk to me. 525 00:54:53,373 --> 00:54:54,791 How are you? 526 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,046 So, there's a couple of things. 527 00:55:00,130 --> 00:55:01,047 One... 528 00:55:02,299 --> 00:55:04,968 for me, Critical Incident Teams, 529 00:55:05,051 --> 00:55:08,346 I'm not even sure that they exist. 530 00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:11,599 Did you find anything out other than this little bit of information? 531 00:55:59,064 --> 00:56:01,691 How do you know a CIT team was sent? 532 00:56:32,305 --> 00:56:37,185 A woman said she was shot in the head by a Border Patrol agent in Nogales. 533 00:56:37,268 --> 00:56:41,940 This woman's saying she still doesn't know why that much force was used against her. 534 00:56:42,023 --> 00:56:44,401 Here's ABC15 investigator Liliana Soto. 535 00:56:46,861 --> 00:56:49,614 Hi, good morning. I wanted to see if I could speak to Corporal Mintz? 536 00:56:49,697 --> 00:56:51,658 -Mintz? Can I ask... -Yeah. 537 00:56:51,741 --> 00:56:55,286 There was an incident that occurred in June of this year 538 00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:57,789 of a woman getting shot in the head by Border Patrol agents, 539 00:56:57,872 --> 00:57:00,250 and I just wanted to ask some questions about it. 540 00:57:00,333 --> 00:57:03,169 -Okay. Give me one second, okay? -Thank you so much. 541 00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:12,095 Hi, I'm John. Nice to meet you. 542 00:57:13,221 --> 00:57:14,222 Want me to wear a mask? 543 00:57:16,141 --> 00:57:17,308 There was an incident here. 544 00:57:17,392 --> 00:57:21,062 Border Patrol agents shot an individual in the back of the head. 545 00:57:21,146 --> 00:57:22,272 Do you know what I'm talking about? 546 00:57:27,986 --> 00:57:29,070 But can you tell me 547 00:57:29,154 --> 00:57:32,907 what protocol is for a Border Patrol-related shooting? 548 00:57:34,492 --> 00:57:36,828 So, you are just here to tell me that you can't say anything? 549 00:57:46,045 --> 00:57:47,547 He's not gonna talk to us. 550 00:57:50,717 --> 00:57:53,761 Excuse me, are you Chief Bermudez? 551 00:57:53,845 --> 00:57:54,846 Yes, sir. 552 00:57:55,305 --> 00:57:57,265 We were trying to talk to an agent inside 553 00:57:57,348 --> 00:57:59,142 -to just ask about a protocol... -Okay. 554 00:57:59,225 --> 00:58:01,060 ...that you guys have with the Border Patrol. 555 00:58:01,144 --> 00:58:02,896 Are you at liberty to talk for a second? 556 00:58:02,979 --> 00:58:05,940 -I can give you a short comment... -Sure. 557 00:58:06,024 --> 00:58:07,901 ...but as far as to getting into this conversation, 558 00:58:07,984 --> 00:58:09,944 we don't discuss other people's investigations 559 00:58:10,028 --> 00:58:12,989 just because of professionalism and the legal aspect of it. 560 00:58:13,072 --> 00:58:15,450 -Okay. -So, what was your question? 561 00:58:15,533 --> 00:58:18,161 There was an incident a few months ago where a woman was shot in the head 562 00:58:18,244 --> 00:58:19,412 -by a Border Patrol agent. -Mm-hmm. 563 00:58:19,579 --> 00:58:21,289 It doesn't seem like Nogales Police Department 564 00:58:21,372 --> 00:58:22,874 was even involved at all. 565 00:58:22,957 --> 00:58:24,542 -Right. -So, how does that work? 566 00:58:24,626 --> 00:58:26,544 Protocol has always been, 567 00:58:26,628 --> 00:58:29,214 we've never actually done investigations that had-- 568 00:58:29,297 --> 00:58:31,883 were related to any shootings with Border Patrol 569 00:58:31,966 --> 00:58:37,138 and that's something that's been set for, you know, for as long as I can remember. 570 00:58:37,222 --> 00:58:39,557 Do you know about CIT teams? C-I-T? 571 00:58:39,641 --> 00:58:41,476 Oh, Critical Incident Team, yeah. 572 00:58:41,935 --> 00:58:45,772 And what is their-- What is their reason for being on a scene? 573 00:58:45,855 --> 00:58:48,066 I have no idea. You're gonna have to ask them. 574 00:58:48,149 --> 00:58:52,111 You know, I know what I know and I don't know what I don't know, so... 575 00:59:02,664 --> 00:59:04,707 Mr. Núñez, my name is John Frey. 576 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,377 We're trying to get some information, 577 00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:11,089 doing a report on your Critical Incident Teams, CIT. 578 00:59:12,257 --> 00:59:14,342 -I can't seem to find anything online. -Okay. 579 00:59:16,261 --> 00:59:18,179 -Okay. Do they exist? -Alright? 580 00:59:18,263 --> 00:59:19,556 Can you answer that part of it? 581 00:59:24,394 --> 00:59:25,687 What I'm talking about? 582 00:59:26,896 --> 00:59:27,897 Okay. So-- 583 00:59:34,070 --> 00:59:35,446 Thank you, sir. 584 01:04:18,145 --> 01:04:21,607 A wake today for a young man shot to death this week 585 01:04:21,691 --> 01:04:23,609 by U.S. Border Patrol agents. 586 01:04:23,693 --> 01:04:25,695 San Diego officials are investigating 587 01:04:25,778 --> 01:04:29,490 the Christmas Eve death of a man who was in Border Patrol custody. 588 01:04:29,574 --> 01:04:31,784 More tensions along U.S.-Mexico border tonight 589 01:04:31,868 --> 01:04:34,453 following the shooting death of a 15-year-old Mexican. 590 01:04:34,537 --> 01:04:37,123 The 17-year-old was shot in the chest by the U.S. Border Patrol. 591 01:04:37,206 --> 01:04:41,043 Border Patrol says the boy was a threat, throwing rocks across the iron fence. 592 01:04:41,127 --> 01:04:43,421 Another fatal shooting near El Paso, Texas. 593 01:04:43,504 --> 01:04:45,089 Serving a warrant when an agent... 594 01:04:45,172 --> 01:04:46,799 Shot and killed a mother of five 595 01:04:46,883 --> 01:04:48,634 while she was in the driver's seat of her car. 596 01:04:48,718 --> 01:04:51,804 There are two very different accounts of what happened just before the shooting. 597 01:04:51,888 --> 01:04:54,348 Few answers have surfaced in that case or others. 598 01:04:54,432 --> 01:04:57,685 Border police say the agent acted in self-defense. 599 01:05:05,985 --> 01:05:08,613 How many cases have you looked through? 600 01:05:09,488 --> 01:05:12,116 Probably at least 45 now. 601 01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:19,290 I'm looking on PACER, which has all the federal cases. 602 01:05:20,374 --> 01:05:22,335 Vast majority of time, it's a civil case... 603 01:05:23,753 --> 01:05:27,465 and I read through these cases from the '90s. 604 01:05:28,466 --> 01:05:32,762 It's always the agent claims that they threw rocks at 'em, 605 01:05:32,845 --> 01:05:36,349 wasn't hurt or wasn't hit, but had to shoot and kill 'em. 606 01:05:36,432 --> 01:05:41,437 It's the same story over and over and over and over again. 607 01:05:41,938 --> 01:05:46,525 So, you're looking at cases that have "CIT, CIIT." 608 01:05:46,609 --> 01:05:50,363 Or an "SET," yeah, for Sector Evidence Team. 609 01:05:50,655 --> 01:05:53,282 -But it's the same thing, right? -Yeah. 610 01:05:55,660 --> 01:05:57,453 And every time in the civil cases, 611 01:05:57,536 --> 01:06:02,541 you see local officials and the attorneys are like... 612 01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,545 "So, you didn't have control of this scene, 613 01:06:06,629 --> 01:06:10,466 "and then when you got there, you just relied on the Border Patrol 614 01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:13,761 to tell you what the evidence was, and they go, 'Yeah.'" 615 01:06:15,179 --> 01:06:19,350 You believe anytime there's an incident along the U.S.-Mexico border, 616 01:06:19,433 --> 01:06:22,645 -a CIT team is probably involved? -Yeah. 617 01:06:23,729 --> 01:06:24,939 They're in everything. 618 01:06:51,632 --> 01:06:53,926 Tonight, a little-known unit within the U.S. Border Patrol 619 01:06:54,010 --> 01:06:56,679 is being accused of interfering in fatal encounters 620 01:06:56,762 --> 01:06:58,139 involving its agents. 621 01:06:58,222 --> 01:07:01,308 Human rights advocates calling for a congressional hearing 622 01:07:01,392 --> 01:07:03,561 on what they call "an off-the-books 623 01:07:03,644 --> 01:07:06,063 investigative unit in the U.S. Border Patrol." 624 01:07:06,689 --> 01:07:11,318 John Carlos Frey, can you talk about the new information 625 01:07:11,402 --> 01:07:14,655 that you're uncovering about these shadow police units 626 01:07:14,739 --> 01:07:17,074 within U.S. Border Patrol? 627 01:07:17,158 --> 01:07:19,952 They are preparing evidence, they are doctoring evidence, 628 01:07:20,036 --> 01:07:22,538 they are tampering with evidence, they are deleting evidence, 629 01:07:22,955 --> 01:07:25,624 so that any use of force is warranted. 630 01:07:25,708 --> 01:07:27,918 That is what CIT is doing. 631 01:07:28,377 --> 01:07:30,463 This is how it happens. 632 01:07:30,546 --> 01:07:33,049 They collect only the evidence that supports them 633 01:07:33,132 --> 01:07:35,176 and then the evidence that doesn't support them, 634 01:07:35,259 --> 01:07:38,054 they muck up and nobody can take the case. 635 01:07:38,888 --> 01:07:41,766 And this is designed, systematically, 636 01:07:41,849 --> 01:07:46,854 to alleviate responsibility and liability for the agency. 637 01:07:47,229 --> 01:07:49,190 Thirty-five years of this... 638 01:07:49,273 --> 01:07:51,442 it's the biggest secret the Border Patrol has. 639 01:07:52,735 --> 01:07:55,321 They don't even have an authority to exist. 640 01:07:55,404 --> 01:07:58,532 There is not a police agency, whether it's a municipal police agency 641 01:07:58,616 --> 01:08:00,367 or a federal police agency, 642 01:08:00,451 --> 01:08:04,371 that gets to investigate itself without any oversight, and that's what 643 01:08:04,455 --> 01:08:06,457 the Border Patrol is doing right now. 644 01:08:07,249 --> 01:08:09,126 John Carlos Frey, we want to thank you 645 01:08:09,210 --> 01:08:10,920 for being with us. Investigative journalist 646 01:08:11,003 --> 01:08:14,215 reported extensively on immigration on the Mexico border. 647 01:08:30,481 --> 01:08:32,316 -I'm John Carlos Frey. -How are you? 648 01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:33,984 Senator, thanks for your commitment on this. 649 01:08:34,068 --> 01:08:35,694 Pleasure, thank you. 650 01:08:35,778 --> 01:08:38,072 -Do you mind if we take off masks? -Sure. 651 01:08:42,033 --> 01:08:44,495 Like, if what... 652 01:08:44,578 --> 01:08:47,540 is being suggested here were to be happening in a local police department, 653 01:08:47,622 --> 01:08:51,417 a local sheriff's department, right, there'd be national outrage. 654 01:08:52,127 --> 01:08:55,296 This absolutely needs to be looked into. 655 01:08:55,381 --> 01:08:57,966 Between this and some of the reports and... 656 01:08:58,634 --> 01:09:00,301 recent press coverage, 657 01:09:00,386 --> 01:09:03,055 there's certainly a lotta questions that need to be asked. 658 01:09:03,555 --> 01:09:05,515 Like, what are the policies? What are the protocols? 659 01:09:05,599 --> 01:09:07,935 What are the procedures within the department? 660 01:09:08,810 --> 01:09:12,106 So, it's not like an Internal Affairs department, 661 01:09:12,189 --> 01:09:14,649 where they're just taking a look at employee behavior, 662 01:09:14,733 --> 01:09:17,569 it's therefore the mitigation of civil liability. 663 01:09:18,069 --> 01:09:20,656 And we're sure that these investigative teams 664 01:09:20,738 --> 01:09:22,741 are everywhere along the border... 665 01:09:23,533 --> 01:09:24,910 but to my knowledge, 666 01:09:24,993 --> 01:09:27,580 CIT shouldn't exist because the Border Patrol 667 01:09:27,662 --> 01:09:30,207 doesn't have the authority, which is granted by Congress, 668 01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:31,876 to have an investigative body. 669 01:09:32,334 --> 01:09:35,212 We can't find any thread in Congress 670 01:09:35,296 --> 01:09:37,590 where they have approval, where they have funding. 671 01:09:39,300 --> 01:09:42,178 Yeah, this... 672 01:09:42,261 --> 01:09:43,386 this is serious. 673 01:09:52,020 --> 01:09:54,023 The hearing will come to order. 674 01:09:55,774 --> 01:09:58,736 Today we're holding the first Department of Homeland Security 675 01:09:58,819 --> 01:10:02,823 oversight hearing since January 16, 2018. 676 01:10:03,324 --> 01:10:05,284 We welcome the Secretary of Homeland Security, 677 01:10:05,367 --> 01:10:08,579 the Honorable Ale Mayorkas, to testify before the committee. 678 01:10:09,163 --> 01:10:11,790 And with that, I turn to Senator Padilla. 679 01:10:12,625 --> 01:10:15,211 Thank you, Mr. Chair. Number of questions. 680 01:10:15,294 --> 01:10:17,713 Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. 681 01:10:18,005 --> 01:10:22,593 I wanna ask about some disturbing reports around the conduct and actions 682 01:10:22,676 --> 01:10:26,263 of Custom and Border Protection agents. 683 01:10:26,347 --> 01:10:30,559 A recent letter sent by the Southern Border Communities Coalition 684 01:10:30,643 --> 01:10:35,356 raises significant concerns about Critical Incident Teams 685 01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,651 within the agency that are interfering 686 01:10:38,734 --> 01:10:42,821 with law enforcement investigation of CBP agents. 687 01:10:42,905 --> 01:10:47,618 According to the letter, these teams have been operating for decades 688 01:10:47,701 --> 01:10:51,747 and investigating their own agents without authority. 689 01:10:52,289 --> 01:10:56,877 Secretary Mayorkas, what measures has the Department of Homeland Security taken 690 01:10:56,961 --> 01:10:59,922 towards addressing serious abuses of power 691 01:11:00,005 --> 01:11:03,217 surrounding these Critical Incident Teams? 692 01:11:03,884 --> 01:11:06,053 So, a few things, if I may. 693 01:11:06,136 --> 01:11:09,014 First of all, I am immensely proud 694 01:11:09,098 --> 01:11:13,602 to work alongside the men and women of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, 695 01:11:14,144 --> 01:11:17,523 and the misconduct of one, 696 01:11:17,606 --> 01:11:21,235 does not define the heroism and integrity 697 01:11:21,318 --> 01:11:23,904 of the great majority of the men and women. 698 01:11:25,072 --> 01:11:30,369 We do not tolerate misconduct in any part of our workforce, 699 01:11:30,452 --> 01:11:32,663 whether that's U.S. Customs and Border Protection 700 01:11:32,746 --> 01:11:36,083 or any corner of the Department of Homeland Security, 701 01:11:36,583 --> 01:11:40,796 and we will root out misconduct wherever it occurs. 702 01:12:00,941 --> 01:12:03,652 My name is James Tomsheck. 703 01:12:03,736 --> 01:12:07,614 I spent eight years with Internal Affairs in the Border Patrol. 704 01:12:09,992 --> 01:12:11,702 Prior to my arrival, 705 01:12:11,785 --> 01:12:17,583 there was no Internal Affairs operations at CBP, 706 01:12:17,666 --> 01:12:21,712 allowing the Border Patrol to operate for many years, 707 01:12:21,795 --> 01:12:25,424 essentially not being monitored for accountability. 708 01:12:26,592 --> 01:12:30,554 So, it was established that I would head up the office 709 01:12:30,637 --> 01:12:35,559 and address all integrity-related issues throughout the agency. 710 01:12:36,643 --> 01:12:40,689 But upon my arrival, I was taken aback to find 711 01:12:40,773 --> 01:12:43,442 how resistant the Border Patrol was 712 01:12:43,525 --> 01:12:48,989 to having an Office of Internal Affairs that would review their activity. 713 01:12:50,532 --> 01:12:53,702 Unfortunately, the Office of Internal Affairs 714 01:12:53,786 --> 01:12:59,500 was viewed with disdain and mistrust by Border Patrol. 715 01:12:59,583 --> 01:13:05,130 I was not welcomed because I had a law enforcement mindset, 716 01:13:05,214 --> 01:13:09,635 whereas they consider themselves more paramilitary. 717 01:13:11,553 --> 01:13:14,765 Law enforcement officers are taught to subdue, 718 01:13:15,182 --> 01:13:20,479 but the military mindset has you prepared to attack 719 01:13:20,562 --> 01:13:24,566 and overcome your enemy with deadly force. 720 01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:35,869 And every time we had deadly force incidents, 721 01:13:35,953 --> 01:13:38,330 we'd have the same discussion. 722 01:13:38,414 --> 01:13:41,083 I would say, "Hey, you're a law enforcement entity. 723 01:13:41,166 --> 01:13:45,421 "You have an obligation to protect the public, 724 01:13:45,504 --> 01:13:49,716 even if those individuals aren't American citizens." 725 01:13:51,677 --> 01:13:55,764 But I could not get them to change their mindset... 726 01:13:58,976 --> 01:14:02,229 and one of their stock responses to me 727 01:14:02,312 --> 01:14:06,483 would be, "You've never worn green, so you don't understand." 728 01:14:12,781 --> 01:14:15,367 In the summer of 2010, 729 01:14:15,451 --> 01:14:19,872 after the assault on Mr. Hernández-Rojas, 730 01:14:19,955 --> 01:14:22,040 I was briefed on the incident thoroughly 731 01:14:22,124 --> 01:14:26,545 by Internal Affairs agents from the San Diego Field Office. 732 01:14:27,212 --> 01:14:31,925 The Internal Affairs agents confirmed that Mr. Hernández-Rojas 733 01:14:32,009 --> 01:14:33,802 was face down on the ground, 734 01:14:33,886 --> 01:14:37,556 handcuffed behind his back at the time that he was tasered. 735 01:14:39,224 --> 01:14:44,480 We knew this because Border Patrol had their Critical Incident Team 736 01:14:44,563 --> 01:14:47,399 on the ground, collecting the facts... 737 01:14:48,150 --> 01:14:52,154 and they were reporting directly to the chief in San Diego, 738 01:14:52,905 --> 01:14:55,949 who reported to the chief of Border Patrol, 739 01:14:56,033 --> 01:15:00,245 who reported to the deputy commissioner from Customs and Border Protection. 740 01:15:02,581 --> 01:15:06,168 After I felt we had established facts with the case, 741 01:15:07,211 --> 01:15:12,424 the deputy commissioner, at the time, summoned me to his office... 742 01:15:13,342 --> 01:15:18,639 and he gave me a direct order to submit false reports 743 01:15:18,722 --> 01:15:21,141 indicating that Mr. Hernández-Rojas 744 01:15:21,225 --> 01:15:25,729 was standing unrestrained and actively resisting arrest 745 01:15:25,812 --> 01:15:27,022 when he was tasered. 746 01:15:29,691 --> 01:15:33,445 But the other problem with the Hernández investigation 747 01:15:33,529 --> 01:15:35,822 was the stonewalling of information. 748 01:15:38,158 --> 01:15:41,453 We found out that the Critical Incident Team 749 01:15:41,954 --> 01:15:43,997 used an administrative subpoena 750 01:15:44,831 --> 01:15:51,129 to illegally obtain the autopsy report before anybody in law enforcement had it. 751 01:15:53,215 --> 01:15:58,303 And then, Border Patrol CIT team members used that document 752 01:15:58,387 --> 01:16:00,597 to begin to construct... 753 01:16:02,057 --> 01:16:04,643 a story around the event 754 01:16:05,394 --> 01:16:08,230 for investigators from other agencies... 755 01:16:11,733 --> 01:16:17,573 that would support the idea that it was an appropriate and legal use of force. 756 01:16:21,827 --> 01:16:25,122 At that point in time, I was under the belief 757 01:16:25,622 --> 01:16:29,501 that Mr. Hernández-Rojas lost his life, in part, 758 01:16:29,585 --> 01:16:33,547 because he had ingested large amounts of methamphetamine. 759 01:16:35,757 --> 01:16:37,801 It was years later, 760 01:16:37,884 --> 01:16:40,887 that I learned that what had been identified 761 01:16:40,971 --> 01:16:44,808 as methamphetamine in the autopsy report, 762 01:16:44,891 --> 01:16:49,354 was possibly medication that had been administered to him 763 01:16:49,438 --> 01:16:52,649 while efforts were being made to revive him. 764 01:17:13,503 --> 01:17:16,548 It has to be said that many agents 765 01:17:16,632 --> 01:17:21,136 are caring persons who execute their always difficult mission 766 01:17:21,219 --> 01:17:23,639 in a way that is humane... 767 01:17:25,223 --> 01:17:27,601 but, unfortunately, many do not. 768 01:17:29,269 --> 01:17:34,900 And that includes persons at the highest level of Border Patrol leadership. 769 01:17:47,496 --> 01:17:49,873 Absolutely not, I've seen those same allegations. 770 01:17:49,956 --> 01:17:51,333 They were not-- 771 01:17:51,416 --> 01:17:53,710 There's no cover-up in that case whatsoever. 772 01:17:53,794 --> 01:17:57,339 Again, there were multiple agencies that investigated that case. 773 01:17:57,422 --> 01:17:59,758 I was just asked about some of the subpoenas recently. 774 01:17:59,841 --> 01:18:03,553 They're all reviewed by multiple levels of lawyers 775 01:18:03,637 --> 01:18:05,263 before we ever do anything like that. 776 01:18:05,347 --> 01:18:09,351 It was literally just documenting exactly what happened. 777 01:18:09,434 --> 01:18:12,020 But I'm not gonna comment with ongoing litigation 778 01:18:12,104 --> 01:18:16,900 about was every single person's actions appropriate or not appropriate. 779 01:18:16,983 --> 01:18:20,153 That's what the investigative organizations are there for. 780 01:18:21,822 --> 01:18:23,490 Even as a chief here, 781 01:18:23,573 --> 01:18:25,867 I stayed off to the side of that investigation, 782 01:18:25,951 --> 01:18:28,412 we provided information, we provided interviews, 783 01:18:28,495 --> 01:18:30,205 but I stay out of the determination 784 01:18:30,288 --> 01:18:32,916 of whether it was appropriate or not appropriate. 785 01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:45,470 Every time anybody dies or anybody gets serious injury, 786 01:18:45,554 --> 01:18:47,347 it weighs on me heavily, 787 01:18:47,431 --> 01:18:50,058 but those are allegations that you just stated. 788 01:19:22,048 --> 01:19:24,843 For the many families who are listening, 789 01:19:24,926 --> 01:19:29,347 the Border Patrol cover-up unit is a crime unto itself. 790 01:19:29,931 --> 01:19:32,601 They took lives and they took hope, 791 01:19:33,018 --> 01:19:35,437 and that cannot stand. 792 01:20:19,606 --> 01:20:24,778 We are here to send a clear message that no one is above the law, 793 01:20:25,487 --> 01:20:31,201 that even if you wear a badge, you too are subject to the law. 794 01:20:31,701 --> 01:20:34,162 We are asking to send a clear message 795 01:20:34,246 --> 01:20:36,665 that this can no longer happen, 796 01:20:36,748 --> 01:20:41,586 and we are asking the question, who will control Border Patrol? 797 01:21:32,387 --> 01:21:34,556 After months of criticism, the Biden administration 798 01:21:34,639 --> 01:21:39,185 is eliminating Critical Incident Teams within the U.S. Border Patrol. 799 01:21:39,269 --> 01:21:41,271 They are getting rid of their special units, 800 01:21:41,354 --> 01:21:43,523 which have been accused for decades of covering up 801 01:21:43,607 --> 01:21:45,859 crimes committed by the agency. 802 01:22:20,352 --> 01:22:23,855 Today is a day to remember. 803 01:22:24,648 --> 01:22:28,360 We know of no other agency in the U.S. government 804 01:22:28,443 --> 01:22:31,196 that gets away with what this agency gets away with, 805 01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:35,659 and we could all see with our own eyes, 806 01:22:35,742 --> 01:22:39,162 today was a victory... 807 01:22:40,413 --> 01:22:41,998 but it won't be the last. 808 01:22:46,419 --> 01:22:48,630 This week, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights 809 01:22:48,713 --> 01:22:50,548 will hear for the first time ever 810 01:22:50,632 --> 01:22:53,301 a case against a U.S. law enforcement agency. 811 01:22:53,385 --> 01:22:55,929 Attorneys say this will be a landmark case. 812 01:22:56,012 --> 01:22:58,932 A future decision could set a precedent for use of force 813 01:22:59,015 --> 01:23:02,852 within the nation's largest law enforcement agency. 814 01:23:03,353 --> 01:23:08,316 Honorable commissioners, U.S. law and CBP policy 815 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,860 permits acts of force that would be considered 816 01:23:10,944 --> 01:23:13,947 excessive under Inter-American standards. 817 01:23:14,447 --> 01:23:17,409 We request that the Commission instruct the United States 818 01:23:17,492 --> 01:23:20,328 to amend use of force laws and policies 819 01:23:20,412 --> 01:23:22,622 for violations of the American Declaration, 820 01:23:22,914 --> 01:23:28,753 including Articles 1, 2, 18, 25, and 26. 821 01:23:57,741 --> 01:24:00,035 Alright, so... 822 01:24:00,118 --> 01:24:03,288 we're gonna talk about international human rights law. 823 01:24:03,663 --> 01:24:06,624 This is a case about impunity at the border 824 01:24:06,708 --> 01:24:11,004 and it's a case about all the ways government officials 825 01:24:11,087 --> 01:24:12,964 covered up the truth.