1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.LT 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.LT 3 00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:29,070 I… I love children. 4 00:00:31,781 --> 00:00:34,492 I love children. I love your children. 5 00:00:45,003 --> 00:00:50,050 And I have a very sacred charge to help you protect them. 6 00:00:56,598 --> 00:01:01,436 Your motive, in truth, is to guide them back to God. 7 00:01:12,739 --> 00:01:14,157 Yes? 8 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,742 Hi. 9 00:01:22,791 --> 00:01:25,251 911, the address of your emergency? 10 00:01:25,794 --> 00:01:28,213 I just had a 12-year-old boy show up 11 00:01:28,296 --> 00:01:31,132 here at my front door asking for help. 12 00:01:32,425 --> 00:01:35,720 His ankles are taped up, and he won't tell us why. 13 00:01:37,055 --> 00:01:38,223 Welcome to ConneXions. 14 00:01:38,306 --> 00:01:41,434 I'm Jodi Hildebrandt. So glad you're with us. 15 00:01:42,852 --> 00:01:45,688 What's going on, son? Have a seat there. 16 00:01:45,772 --> 00:01:48,108 It's personal business. 17 00:01:50,985 --> 00:01:52,779 Have a seat. 18 00:01:53,488 --> 00:01:57,784 Nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth because these kids… 19 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,330 It's all the devil. He uses these kids, 20 00:02:03,164 --> 00:02:05,125 and he uses all of us as the adults, 21 00:02:05,208 --> 00:02:07,752 the parents that don't hold the kids accountable. 22 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:13,216 So now it's abusive to make a kid sleep on the floor. It's abusive. 23 00:02:14,092 --> 00:02:15,468 It's ridiculous. 24 00:02:15,969 --> 00:02:18,012 You can't even raise your kids anymore. 25 00:02:20,223 --> 00:02:23,852 He rang my doorbell and asked me to call the police. 26 00:02:24,435 --> 00:02:27,480 Does he seem to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol? 27 00:02:27,564 --> 00:02:28,857 I don't think so. 28 00:02:28,940 --> 00:02:31,734 But he has duct tape around each ankle. 29 00:02:32,986 --> 00:02:35,697 -Yeah, there's sores around them, I think. -He also has-- 30 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:39,868 He has them around his wrists as well. This boy has been… 31 00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:42,704 He needs… 32 00:02:45,832 --> 00:02:47,834 This kid has obviously been… 33 00:02:48,668 --> 00:02:50,837 He's been detained. He's been… 34 00:02:51,379 --> 00:02:53,298 He's obviously covered in wounds. 35 00:03:26,456 --> 00:03:27,707 The call comes in like, 36 00:03:27,790 --> 00:03:32,670 "Boy has duct tape on ankles. Appears to be malnourished." 37 00:03:32,754 --> 00:03:33,796 That's all that we see. 38 00:03:38,426 --> 00:03:40,345 I was working in investigations. 39 00:03:40,428 --> 00:03:44,098 I handled all sex crimes, property crimes… I was the only detective at the time. 40 00:03:44,182 --> 00:03:47,018 They should be pulling up now. 41 00:03:47,101 --> 00:03:50,230 Okay, the ambulance is here. 42 00:03:51,147 --> 00:03:57,820 A few of us were a little skeptical on how valid this report was at first. 43 00:03:59,614 --> 00:04:03,743 Santa Clara-Ivins is a very affluent area. 44 00:04:03,826 --> 00:04:07,163 Large homes situated on large lots. 45 00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:12,794 Are the kids playing tag and one is left with duct tape? You just don't know. 46 00:04:16,506 --> 00:04:20,468 Once our initial responding officer arrived, 47 00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:26,099 he immediately noticed how malnourished, emaciated, scrawny he was. 48 00:04:26,182 --> 00:04:28,434 That's when he saw the extent of the injuries as well. 49 00:04:30,645 --> 00:04:34,649 The boy had a paste mixture on his wounds. 50 00:04:34,732 --> 00:04:36,651 He had duct tape on him. 51 00:04:36,734 --> 00:04:38,236 He had Saran Wrap. 52 00:04:41,531 --> 00:04:42,532 I'm gonna cry. 53 00:04:42,615 --> 00:04:44,742 I know, that's why I got my shades on. 54 00:04:47,078 --> 00:04:50,456 No more than three minutes later, he called me and was like, 55 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:55,169 "This is a big deal. I need you to come out for this." 56 00:04:56,629 --> 00:04:59,382 Medical started cutting the stuff off him. 57 00:04:59,465 --> 00:05:01,259 You can see the wounds. 58 00:05:02,051 --> 00:05:05,305 You could smell it. The flesh. 59 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:11,728 The young boy stated that he had been bound with rope and handcuffs. 60 00:05:12,937 --> 00:05:16,441 And he said he deserved those injuries. 61 00:05:17,483 --> 00:05:19,652 You're not in trouble with me, okay? 62 00:05:19,736 --> 00:05:21,904 We're just trying to figure out what's going on. 63 00:05:21,988 --> 00:05:25,366 Our main focus right now is you, okay? 64 00:05:26,117 --> 00:05:27,869 Who put the ropes on you? 65 00:05:42,633 --> 00:05:47,055 The day that the young boy ran away, we know that it was over 100 degrees. 66 00:05:47,138 --> 00:05:48,639 He left with no shoes, 67 00:05:48,723 --> 00:05:52,226 and as you can tell, it's very desert-ish terrain. 68 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:58,608 He went to three homes. 69 00:05:58,691 --> 00:06:02,487 And on the third home, that's when they contacted 911. 70 00:06:03,821 --> 00:06:07,617 He said he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house. 71 00:06:08,117 --> 00:06:10,745 Her name is Jodi Hildebrandt. 72 00:06:13,081 --> 00:06:16,793 I really had limited information about Jodi. 73 00:06:17,710 --> 00:06:19,504 I knew she was a therapist. 74 00:06:19,587 --> 00:06:21,798 And at that point, we're all trying to understand 75 00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:25,551 what therapist is living in this $5 million house, right? 76 00:06:27,512 --> 00:06:32,058 The young boy had stated his mother's name was Ruby Franke. 77 00:06:32,141 --> 00:06:37,480 And we learned that Ruby was a business partner of Jodi. 78 00:06:38,731 --> 00:06:41,067 I was closer to the hospital. 79 00:06:41,150 --> 00:06:44,570 That's where I first made contact with the young boy. 80 00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:50,076 My initial thought when I saw him was, 81 00:06:50,159 --> 00:06:54,163 just how could someone do that to their child? 82 00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:01,379 The young boy told us he had another sister in the home. 83 00:07:01,462 --> 00:07:04,215 She was younger than him. 84 00:07:04,298 --> 00:07:06,008 He hadn't seen her in over a month. 85 00:07:09,846 --> 00:07:11,431 We need to identify the house. 86 00:07:11,514 --> 00:07:15,143 If there are kids there, we need to do a security sweep of that house. 87 00:07:15,226 --> 00:07:18,229 12X-1711, can you head over here to the road? 88 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,570 The call comes in and says, "Hey, we have a different kind of case." 89 00:07:25,653 --> 00:07:27,530 "We're gonna write some search warrants." 90 00:07:27,613 --> 00:07:30,450 "What kind of warrants should we do? How should we do this?" 91 00:07:31,325 --> 00:07:34,745 Law enforcement see a kid who was clearly in an unsafe situation, 92 00:07:34,829 --> 00:07:37,790 and he tells them that he has a sibling in the house. 93 00:07:37,874 --> 00:07:41,544 And so they're going to go in and just do a safety check of the house. 94 00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:45,965 One eighty-four. 95 00:07:48,926 --> 00:07:50,178 Off to the left. 96 00:08:05,818 --> 00:08:07,820 Police officers! Open up! 97 00:08:11,824 --> 00:08:12,950 Open the door! 98 00:08:15,620 --> 00:08:16,621 Jodi? 99 00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:19,457 -I need you to step out. -I have my attorney. 100 00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:21,918 -Great. Step out of the house. -No, I'm not going to. 101 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:23,753 -Step out of the house. -Step out. 102 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:24,879 Whoa! 103 00:08:24,962 --> 00:08:27,048 Is there anybody else home? 104 00:08:27,131 --> 00:08:28,716 Wait. How do you come in my house? 105 00:08:28,799 --> 00:08:29,675 Right there. 106 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:31,469 They're gonna go into my house. 107 00:08:31,969 --> 00:08:33,888 -Have a seat. -You have a search warrant? 108 00:08:33,971 --> 00:08:36,098 -Have a seat there. -You have a search warrant? 109 00:08:39,018 --> 00:08:40,770 They're not gathering evidence. 110 00:08:40,853 --> 00:08:45,316 They're just looking for potential victims of crime. 111 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:47,652 Police Department. Call out! 112 00:08:48,945 --> 00:08:50,279 Police Department. Call out! 113 00:08:53,074 --> 00:08:54,742 Police Department. Call out! 114 00:08:56,661 --> 00:08:58,204 I just have one. 115 00:09:00,873 --> 00:09:02,458 Hi, I'm a police officer. 116 00:09:03,918 --> 00:09:05,920 Hey, you okay? 117 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:07,880 It's just you in here? 118 00:09:07,964 --> 00:09:11,008 That's when they located a small child 119 00:09:11,092 --> 00:09:16,389 sitting crisscross applesauce in the closet of the upstairs bedroom. 120 00:09:18,432 --> 00:09:20,059 I'm Sergeant Tobler. 121 00:09:20,685 --> 00:09:22,061 What's your name? 122 00:09:23,688 --> 00:09:25,356 You don't want to talk to me? 123 00:09:29,527 --> 00:09:31,279 I'm not going to hurt you. 124 00:09:31,362 --> 00:09:32,446 Promise. 125 00:09:33,197 --> 00:09:37,535 And I get it if you're scared. I would be too. 126 00:09:39,203 --> 00:09:40,746 It's okay if I sit here with you? 127 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:44,292 We don't have to say anything if you don't want to. 128 00:09:46,794 --> 00:09:51,382 The child had a shaved head, very scrawny, 129 00:09:51,465 --> 00:09:53,551 and appeared to be scared. 130 00:09:53,634 --> 00:09:55,886 -Is there anybody else in the house? -Yes. 131 00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:56,804 Kids? 132 00:09:56,887 --> 00:09:58,097 There's a little girl. 133 00:09:58,180 --> 00:09:59,890 -Just one? -She's right over here. 134 00:09:59,974 --> 00:10:01,851 Okay. How old is she? 135 00:10:03,644 --> 00:10:04,812 She'll be 10 next week. 136 00:10:04,895 --> 00:10:06,063 Okay. 137 00:10:06,147 --> 00:10:12,111 It was just extremely surprising and almost confusing. 138 00:10:12,194 --> 00:10:16,115 Just how? How did this… How did this happen? 139 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:19,118 Are you scared? 140 00:10:21,662 --> 00:10:23,539 I'm just nervous. 141 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:25,958 -What? -Just nervous. 142 00:10:26,042 --> 00:10:27,710 We helped your brother. 143 00:10:29,128 --> 00:10:31,213 And that's what we want to do for you. 144 00:10:31,922 --> 00:10:34,925 We've got a couple of kids that look very malnourished. 145 00:10:35,009 --> 00:10:39,513 It was clear that they had been severely abused for an extended period of time. 146 00:10:40,306 --> 00:10:45,061 Jodi is the only adult there, and neither of the children there are hers. 147 00:10:45,144 --> 00:10:46,979 The question is, where's Mom, where's Dad? 148 00:10:53,027 --> 00:10:56,447 Any crime that's committed involving a child, 149 00:10:56,530 --> 00:11:00,201 we contact the Department of Child and Family Services. 150 00:11:00,284 --> 00:11:03,037 I got a call from DCFS, and it was like, 151 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,373 "Hey, Jess, just google '8 Passengers.'" 152 00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:09,919 -Hi, guys, I'm Kevin. -I'm Ruby. 153 00:11:10,002 --> 00:11:13,381 We're the drivers of the 8 Passengers. We're Mom and Dad. 154 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:17,802 It's pink! It's going to be a girl! 155 00:11:18,969 --> 00:11:20,012 I knew it! 156 00:11:21,597 --> 00:11:23,516 You want lots of presents? 157 00:11:23,599 --> 00:11:25,476 -Won't you be happy with just one? -Lots! 158 00:11:26,102 --> 00:11:27,978 Oh wow. 159 00:11:28,729 --> 00:11:29,814 Thank you for watching. 160 00:11:30,773 --> 00:11:33,776 I learned 8 Passengers was a YouTube channel 161 00:11:33,859 --> 00:11:36,696 that Ruby and Kevin Franke had begun. 162 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:41,450 And it was just about their family, about their day-to-day activities. 163 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:44,954 They can have their Christmas pajamas after they clean out the van. 164 00:11:45,037 --> 00:11:45,871 We have some news. 165 00:11:45,955 --> 00:11:47,373 They didn't live in our area, 166 00:11:47,456 --> 00:11:51,377 so none of us are familiar with Ruby Franke or the family. 167 00:11:51,961 --> 00:11:55,172 And there's no evidence of Jodi in their YouTube videos 168 00:11:55,256 --> 00:11:57,258 or their other social media posts. 169 00:11:57,341 --> 00:12:01,053 We were scratching our head for some time 170 00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:04,724 as to how Jodi fit with the family. 171 00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:08,561 They called it 8 Passengers because they had six kids. 172 00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:12,273 We need to locate the other kids. 173 00:12:14,191 --> 00:12:17,611 We have the two younger children at Jodi's house. 174 00:12:19,947 --> 00:12:22,783 The two older children, Chad and Sherry, 175 00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:25,327 they're out of the house and estranged from the family. 176 00:12:26,078 --> 00:12:30,916 And now everybody's in a panic trying to locate the two middle children 177 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,543 because they're minors too. 178 00:12:36,046 --> 00:12:38,924 We had local agencies searching across the state for them. 179 00:12:40,092 --> 00:12:46,265 They go up north to the Franke family home in Springville. 180 00:12:48,726 --> 00:12:51,145 Here's what she drives, a van. 181 00:12:51,228 --> 00:12:52,855 Police Department! 182 00:12:52,938 --> 00:12:54,482 We're here to help you! 183 00:12:55,232 --> 00:12:57,401 -Open the door! -Police Department! 184 00:12:58,861 --> 00:13:00,696 We're just looking for a female, right? 185 00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:03,532 Female and two kids. Two kids are believed to be in danger. 186 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,415 When law enforcement searched Ruby's house in Springville, 187 00:13:11,999 --> 00:13:17,671 they found go bags for the kids that were living up there. 188 00:13:17,755 --> 00:13:21,133 Like, a packed duffel with changes of clothes. 189 00:13:22,134 --> 00:13:24,845 What in the heck is going on here? 190 00:13:25,346 --> 00:13:27,097 Looks like they're packing. 191 00:13:27,181 --> 00:13:30,434 Definitely I think Ruby and Jodi were prepared, 192 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:34,605 if they got wind that law enforcement was going to come after them 193 00:13:34,688 --> 00:13:36,941 for what they were doing to those kids, to run. 194 00:13:37,024 --> 00:13:38,609 This is her diary. 195 00:13:39,193 --> 00:13:42,112 August 29th. Yesterday. 196 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:44,949 I have most of the kitchen done by now. 197 00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:48,994 Got enough freakin' canned food here to last through the Apocalypse. 198 00:13:49,578 --> 00:13:51,330 Garage is clear, 100%. 199 00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:55,543 We learned that Ruby had just left St. George that morning 200 00:13:55,626 --> 00:13:57,127 with one of the middle children. 201 00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:03,175 When the young boy escaped that day, Jodi had contacted Ruby to come back. 202 00:14:03,968 --> 00:14:08,806 She dropped the child off and then returned back to St. George. 203 00:14:08,889 --> 00:14:10,641 You can sit there. 204 00:14:11,225 --> 00:14:13,143 Law enforcement in Utah County 205 00:14:13,227 --> 00:14:17,982 eventually finds both of the two middle children at a family friend's home, 206 00:14:18,065 --> 00:14:19,441 and they were safe. 207 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:28,242 And while they were looking for the middle children, 208 00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:33,205 Kevin Franke, Ruby's husband, had arrived at the police department. 209 00:14:33,747 --> 00:14:36,625 How did you find out that you needed to come here? 210 00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:40,129 I received a message that I needed to come pick up my kids 211 00:14:40,212 --> 00:14:42,423 from the police department in Ivins. 212 00:14:42,506 --> 00:14:45,801 I'll figure out who reached out to you. It makes sense that would happen. 213 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,929 I'm not aware of anyone who did that from our department. 214 00:14:49,013 --> 00:14:54,768 Right. And I'm not comfortable saying right now who reached out to me. 215 00:14:55,769 --> 00:14:58,731 It was clear that he didn't want to say anything 216 00:14:58,814 --> 00:15:01,066 that would hurt either of them. 217 00:15:01,150 --> 00:15:06,447 But we later learned that Jodi had contacted Ruby 218 00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:09,199 to come get her kids from the department. 219 00:15:09,283 --> 00:15:11,410 And then she had called Kevin. 220 00:15:12,161 --> 00:15:14,663 Do you know a female named Jodi? 221 00:15:14,747 --> 00:15:18,334 She is a therapist and a life coach. 222 00:15:18,417 --> 00:15:22,588 Is your wife a client of hers? Is your wife a partner of hers? 223 00:15:22,671 --> 00:15:28,469 I know that they've been in business for the last year filming-- 224 00:15:28,552 --> 00:15:29,637 Who's "they"? 225 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,848 -Ruby and Jodi. They film… -Ruby and Jodi? You think they… 226 00:15:32,932 --> 00:15:34,808 They film podcasts and… 227 00:15:34,892 --> 00:15:36,685 What's the name of it? 228 00:15:37,478 --> 00:15:39,605 ConneXions with an X. 229 00:15:44,902 --> 00:15:48,405 Welcome to ConneXions. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt, and this is… 230 00:15:48,489 --> 00:15:49,865 Ruby Franke. 231 00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:53,619 I found ConneXions and had searched a little about that. 232 00:15:53,702 --> 00:15:56,705 And I learned Jodi was the founder of ConneXions, 233 00:15:56,789 --> 00:16:00,125 which was almost a religious-based therapy. 234 00:16:01,043 --> 00:16:05,005 Truth is unchanging. It's eternal. 235 00:16:05,089 --> 00:16:10,302 And when I tell myself the truth, then I am loving my soul. 236 00:16:11,553 --> 00:16:15,599 So no one in our office had ever heard of Jodi Hildebrandt before. 237 00:16:16,475 --> 00:16:20,521 But we quickly came to learn that she had a social media presence. 238 00:16:24,441 --> 00:16:30,114 My name is Ethan, and my wife and I were a part of Jodi's ConneXions program. 239 00:16:30,739 --> 00:16:32,491 I knew Jodi Hildebrandt's name 240 00:16:32,574 --> 00:16:35,077 because in the right circles, it's a very popular name. 241 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,621 She'd have these group meetings where people could come 242 00:16:37,705 --> 00:16:40,416 and hear others being vulnerable. That's a great thing. 243 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:47,006 It was this whole program built around life coaching, support groups, 244 00:16:47,089 --> 00:16:52,136 making phone calls, making communications, and being connected. 245 00:16:53,387 --> 00:16:55,472 I remember the first time I got on her website, 246 00:16:55,556 --> 00:16:57,099 there were testimonials and videos 247 00:16:57,182 --> 00:17:00,477 of just couples that looked happy, and they had overcome things together. 248 00:17:00,561 --> 00:17:03,439 And honestly, she did a good job of marketing herself online 249 00:17:03,522 --> 00:17:05,816 and creating content that looked inviting. 250 00:17:06,567 --> 00:17:08,652 I've been writing some notes. 251 00:17:08,736 --> 00:17:13,407 We are having a couples' workshop tomorrow. 252 00:17:15,826 --> 00:17:17,703 Utah is obviously home base 253 00:17:17,786 --> 00:17:20,831 for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 254 00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:26,253 And a lot of individuals have very minimal exposure to anything related to therapy. 255 00:17:27,212 --> 00:17:30,758 And so when Jodi comes in with these pictures and videos 256 00:17:30,841 --> 00:17:33,510 and starts to teach this idea of living a life 257 00:17:33,594 --> 00:17:35,471 that's honest, responsible and humble, 258 00:17:35,554 --> 00:17:39,391 helping people to live in truth, to being like Christ, 259 00:17:39,475 --> 00:17:41,435 it feels like it's groundbreaking. 260 00:17:41,518 --> 00:17:44,480 It's almost like a secret, like a hack, a life hack. 261 00:17:45,981 --> 00:17:48,484 My name is Valerie Jackson. 262 00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:55,616 My husband and I had been married for three years when we started seeing Jodi. 263 00:17:56,158 --> 00:17:59,078 It was helpful for me. It was probably the first time I realized, 264 00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:03,624 as a woman in a pretty male-dominated church, 265 00:18:03,707 --> 00:18:07,753 that I felt to some degree, like, empowered. 266 00:18:07,836 --> 00:18:11,131 After watching a lot of Jodi's videos, it was like, 267 00:18:11,215 --> 00:18:14,843 "I have a voice here? I can say something within this marriage?" 268 00:18:14,927 --> 00:18:18,472 But you got to get centered in truth first and hold boundaries. 269 00:18:18,555 --> 00:18:21,642 What can women do to actually support men? 270 00:18:22,142 --> 00:18:24,686 Women can learn to love themselves. 271 00:18:26,105 --> 00:18:30,692 It was a novel idea for me, and I bought totally into it 272 00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:32,486 and was very excited to move forward. 273 00:18:33,403 --> 00:18:34,530 People are thinking, 274 00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:36,740 "This is awesome. I've never heard of this before." 275 00:18:36,824 --> 00:18:40,911 And they share it with their friends, and she was really able to spread out 276 00:18:40,994 --> 00:18:43,956 through areas where there are a lot of members of our faith. 277 00:18:44,623 --> 00:18:47,543 Jodi was being invited to share her ideas. 278 00:18:47,626 --> 00:18:51,338 She was getting a lot of eyeballs, and it was a big deal in the community. 279 00:18:51,421 --> 00:18:55,300 And she was being invited to do big, influential podcasts. 280 00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,470 We're excited today to have Jodi Hildebrandt. 281 00:18:58,554 --> 00:19:01,723 She's got a massive podcast, 500,000 people. 282 00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:03,809 Welcome, Jodi, thanks for joining us. 283 00:19:03,892 --> 00:19:05,102 Thank you, Ken. 284 00:19:13,569 --> 00:19:17,447 Once the first search is done and we found the young girl, 285 00:19:17,531 --> 00:19:21,076 we immediately requested a warrant to search the residence. 286 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,494 Police Department. 287 00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:25,414 It's not just for people. It's not just for life. 288 00:19:25,497 --> 00:19:27,708 It's to collect evidence of the crime. 289 00:19:27,791 --> 00:19:30,544 We just served her with a warrant, so we're at the home now. 290 00:19:30,627 --> 00:19:33,630 The victims that we're talking about are nine and 11. 291 00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:37,217 We knew that they were very scared 292 00:19:37,301 --> 00:19:42,306 of what Jodi and Ruby would do to them 293 00:19:42,389 --> 00:19:43,640 if they talked to people. 294 00:19:45,684 --> 00:19:48,103 We're used to kind of the run-of-the-mill crime, 295 00:19:48,187 --> 00:19:54,568 but it's awful when you have a really horrific child abuse case happen. 296 00:19:54,651 --> 00:19:55,986 And that's what this one was. 297 00:20:00,782 --> 00:20:04,328 We just started room by room, item by item, 298 00:20:04,411 --> 00:20:06,330 documenting everything that we found. 299 00:20:13,503 --> 00:20:16,840 They look for evidence of physical abuse. 300 00:20:18,508 --> 00:20:21,094 Going through Jodi Hildebrandt's room, 301 00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:24,640 we're looking for things that corroborate the boy's statement 302 00:20:24,723 --> 00:20:27,059 and have given him these injuries. 303 00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:31,897 And they find an overflowing garbage can. 304 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:36,485 Clearly they had been wrapping his injuries in this Saran Wrap. 305 00:20:36,568 --> 00:20:39,112 And we later came to understand 306 00:20:39,196 --> 00:20:44,034 it was a homeopathic mixture of honey and cayenne pepper remedy, 307 00:20:44,576 --> 00:20:47,204 which nobody should hear that and think that's a good idea. 308 00:20:48,288 --> 00:20:52,125 It was clear Jodi had been helping dress the wounds 309 00:20:52,209 --> 00:20:54,503 and injuries on the young boy. 310 00:20:56,046 --> 00:20:59,967 We found more of that mixture and Saran Wrap 311 00:21:00,050 --> 00:21:03,136 in Ruby Franke's bathroom. 312 00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:07,266 We also found rope. 313 00:21:10,352 --> 00:21:13,230 There was a lot of duct tape in the closets. 314 00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:20,529 This is a 10,000-plus square foot house 315 00:21:20,612 --> 00:21:24,783 with a lot of cement underground basement storage space. 316 00:21:27,077 --> 00:21:30,038 And in one of those rooms, there was a built-in safe. 317 00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:34,209 -I have a question for you. -Yeah? 318 00:21:34,293 --> 00:21:37,337 You have a room downstairs that has a safe wheel on the front? 319 00:21:37,421 --> 00:21:42,301 So law enforcement went and asked Jodi, "Hey, what's the combination to the safe?" 320 00:21:42,384 --> 00:21:44,428 And she responds, "I can't remember it." 321 00:21:44,511 --> 00:21:46,722 That thing has been locked for a couple of years, 322 00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,558 and I would have to call… whatever to… 323 00:21:49,641 --> 00:21:51,685 Is that a panic room or a room where-- 324 00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:54,271 -It's a room. -And you don't know the code? 325 00:21:54,771 --> 00:21:56,606 -I haven't used it. -Okay. 326 00:21:57,649 --> 00:22:02,112 Our lieutenant, he just went down and was kind of messing with the safe, 327 00:22:02,821 --> 00:22:07,868 hit 1-2-3-4-5-6, and it opened right up. 328 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:14,041 They open up the safe, and it's actually a panic room. 329 00:22:14,124 --> 00:22:16,960 And they think, "Oh, where the kids held here?" 330 00:22:17,878 --> 00:22:19,671 They start opening drawers. 331 00:22:23,508 --> 00:22:27,179 And they find handcuffs, and they find ropes. 332 00:22:32,059 --> 00:22:34,936 We had evidence that the adults were aware of the injuries 333 00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:37,314 and taking steps to… 334 00:22:37,397 --> 00:22:39,733 I'm not gonna say "treat" because that's too nice, 335 00:22:39,816 --> 00:22:41,860 but taking steps to address the injuries. 336 00:22:41,943 --> 00:22:44,613 It was clear that they'd been tortured. We could see that. 337 00:22:44,696 --> 00:22:48,158 We could see the injuries on them. We could see the malnourishment. 338 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:49,951 The… 339 00:22:50,827 --> 00:22:52,746 Sorry, some things are hard to talk about. 340 00:22:53,997 --> 00:22:56,875 As a mom, it's completely disheartening. 341 00:22:57,918 --> 00:23:02,589 I've never seen abuse on this level on a case that I've worked before. 342 00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:20,482 What's that? 343 00:23:20,565 --> 00:23:25,695 And then all of a sudden, Ruby Franke shows up at the house. 344 00:23:26,613 --> 00:23:29,950 Ma'am, this is Officer Hines. She's just gonna hang out here with you. 345 00:23:31,159 --> 00:23:35,872 She was just very quiet, withdrawn, no emotion, 346 00:23:35,956 --> 00:23:37,457 didn't ask about the kids, 347 00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,043 stone-cold. 348 00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:43,380 Same with Jodi. 349 00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:47,384 She just sat on that couch and didn't ask any questions. 350 00:23:47,467 --> 00:23:49,803 I didn't want them to have any interaction 351 00:23:49,886 --> 00:23:53,765 'cause I didn't want them kind of colluding on a story. 352 00:23:54,391 --> 00:23:57,519 So, hey, Ruby, at this time you're already detained. 353 00:23:57,602 --> 00:24:00,230 But I'm gonna be taking you back to the police department. 354 00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:02,441 Okay? So I'm going to need you to hop up. 355 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,612 Okay, place your hands behind your back for me. 356 00:24:07,696 --> 00:24:08,697 Perfect. 357 00:24:09,364 --> 00:24:11,366 Based on what we had at that point, 358 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:15,287 we placed Ruby and Jodi in handcuffs 359 00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:19,624 and brought both of them back to the department for further questioning. 360 00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,014 It's a crazy story. 361 00:24:34,723 --> 00:24:39,561 An individual influencing others on how to be a good mom 362 00:24:39,644 --> 00:24:42,606 is detained for being a bad mom. 363 00:24:43,565 --> 00:24:48,153 But a therapist leading someone to religiously believe 364 00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:51,114 that they need to torture their children? 365 00:24:52,157 --> 00:24:55,952 I think that's the more terrifying story. 366 00:24:59,498 --> 00:25:02,584 I probably started hearing about Jodi Hildebrandt 367 00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:06,171 in the mid-20 teens. 368 00:25:06,838 --> 00:25:09,049 I am a licensed marriage and family therapist, 369 00:25:09,132 --> 00:25:11,760 primarily with the LDS Mormon population. 370 00:25:12,969 --> 00:25:16,973 I started seeing prior clients of Jodi's. 371 00:25:17,057 --> 00:25:19,226 Now, that's pretty typical in therapy, 372 00:25:19,309 --> 00:25:22,270 you get people who come in who've been to a previous therapist. 373 00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:27,400 But some of the things that I started hearing were so odd, 374 00:25:27,484 --> 00:25:29,486 especially in the realm of sexuality. 375 00:25:31,071 --> 00:25:32,781 When it comes to Jodi Hildebrandt, 376 00:25:32,864 --> 00:25:36,910 my understanding is, like most of us who go into mental health, 377 00:25:36,993 --> 00:25:41,164 a lot of that is dictated by our own personal wounds. 378 00:25:44,459 --> 00:25:46,419 My name is Jodi Hildebrandt. 379 00:25:46,503 --> 00:25:50,924 I was born in 1969 in Tucson, Arizona. 380 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:56,096 I was a member of a family of seven children. 381 00:25:56,805 --> 00:26:01,351 I was raised LDS and was in what I would call a traditional LDS home. 382 00:26:02,435 --> 00:26:06,856 My family life, as we grew up, it was, "You do this because you're supposed to," 383 00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:09,192 and it was mostly because of fear. 384 00:26:10,026 --> 00:26:12,904 So I followed the path of the perfect child. 385 00:26:14,364 --> 00:26:16,825 I served a mission in Puerto Rico, 386 00:26:16,908 --> 00:26:18,994 and I loved that experience. 387 00:26:20,537 --> 00:26:24,666 Back then, in the '90s, it was not common for females to serve a mission. 388 00:26:25,792 --> 00:26:30,880 But Jodi had a gift of persuasion, and people wanted to do what she said. 389 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:34,551 My name is Laura Howells Leavitt, 390 00:26:34,634 --> 00:26:39,598 and Jodi and I were mission companions in Puerto Rico with the LDS Church. 391 00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:44,853 Our objective was to convert as many people as we possibly could. 392 00:26:45,645 --> 00:26:47,731 LDS missions are really hard work. 393 00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:49,566 There's a lot of rules. 394 00:26:49,649 --> 00:26:51,276 We got up at six in the morning, 395 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,946 and we would read El Libro de Mormón, The Book of Mormon in Spanish, 396 00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:56,906 and we would have companionship study. 397 00:26:57,949 --> 00:26:59,117 We were always busy. 398 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,245 We'd either be talking to people in a parking lot, 399 00:27:02,329 --> 00:27:04,623 or we would be knocking doors. 400 00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:07,292 We had to talk to a certain amount of people a day. 401 00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:08,877 We called it the golden question. 402 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,379 "Are you interested in hearing more about 403 00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:14,132 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" 404 00:27:14,674 --> 00:27:15,925 I remember thinking, 405 00:27:16,009 --> 00:27:18,595 "Wow, this is the hardest thing I've ever done," you know? 406 00:27:18,678 --> 00:27:21,681 Being with a companion 24/7, 407 00:27:21,765 --> 00:27:24,559 who you didn't choose to be with, that's not easy. 408 00:27:26,561 --> 00:27:32,067 One of the guidelines as a missionary was to record and write down your journals, 409 00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:33,360 and so I did every day. 410 00:27:35,070 --> 00:27:40,408 We were working with this family, and they had delayed their baptismal date. 411 00:27:41,201 --> 00:27:44,371 And I wrote in my journal how everything changed 412 00:27:44,454 --> 00:27:46,998 when Jodi was able to sit with them. 413 00:27:48,166 --> 00:27:51,211 "You should hear the way Hil talks and helps them feel the Spirit." 414 00:27:51,294 --> 00:27:54,964 "She even cried. I just sat there, and I couldn't think of what to say." 415 00:27:55,048 --> 00:27:58,927 "I went home feeling kind of worthless. I didn't even need to be there." 416 00:27:59,928 --> 00:28:03,556 I wrote that I didn't quite feel comfortable with Jodi. 417 00:28:04,641 --> 00:28:06,434 Even though there were three of us, 418 00:28:06,518 --> 00:28:10,146 Jodi felt like she was the one making the difference. 419 00:28:17,445 --> 00:28:20,990 The story of Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Franke 420 00:28:21,074 --> 00:28:23,493 is definitely a Mormon story. 421 00:28:23,993 --> 00:28:26,121 That is a religious story. 422 00:28:27,622 --> 00:28:32,377 Missionary work has a big value in the Mormon culture. 423 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:34,754 Spreading the gospel to others. 424 00:28:34,838 --> 00:28:36,297 And you can do this formally, 425 00:28:36,381 --> 00:28:42,387 like Jodi Hildebrandt going on a mission and knocking on doors and proselytizing. 426 00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:47,016 Or you can do this informally, which is basically showcasing your life. 427 00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:53,314 Utah is kind of this hotbed for influencer culture, 428 00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:55,567 and a lot of times it is the influencer mom. 429 00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:59,320 The focus on the family is so important in the state of Utah, 430 00:28:59,404 --> 00:29:01,030 which is a beautiful thing. 431 00:29:01,114 --> 00:29:04,033 And naturally, a lot of women grow up with this idea of, 432 00:29:04,117 --> 00:29:06,035 "I want to be a mother." 433 00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:07,579 So with that in mind, it's like, 434 00:29:07,662 --> 00:29:11,666 "How do I then become the best version of myself as a mother?" 435 00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:14,127 "Maybe I could be an influencer, share my story." 436 00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:17,922 That's actually exactly what Ruby was doing on YouTube. 437 00:29:18,006 --> 00:29:22,594 "Ruby, beautiful, mother of six, lover of Kevin." 438 00:29:24,262 --> 00:29:27,640 So the Frankes are influencers. They're very popular on YouTube. 439 00:29:27,724 --> 00:29:31,895 They kind of represented this idea of the influencer family. 440 00:29:31,978 --> 00:29:35,482 Someone who could tell the story of what it's like to be a "real family." 441 00:29:35,565 --> 00:29:40,862 My job is just to keep the house from burning down and keep the kids 442 00:29:40,945 --> 00:29:42,989 from… not killing each other. 443 00:29:43,072 --> 00:29:45,325 Hey. Are you done? 444 00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:49,788 And from what I understand, they also joined the ConneXions program 445 00:29:49,871 --> 00:29:52,081 kind of for the same reason other people were, 446 00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:53,666 trying to improve their marriage. 447 00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:57,921 But when I first encountered the Frankes in ConneXions, 448 00:29:58,004 --> 00:29:59,547 I had never heard of them before. 449 00:29:59,631 --> 00:30:03,009 I was like, "So what?" Like, I didn't get the hype. 450 00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:05,887 It wasn't until people came and started sharing things like, 451 00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:08,515 "No, they're kind of a big deal in this realm." 452 00:30:08,598 --> 00:30:10,350 "This influencer realm." 453 00:30:10,433 --> 00:30:13,269 8 Passengers was a big YouTube channel. 454 00:30:13,353 --> 00:30:18,900 They had over two million subscribers, over a billion views, 455 00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:23,822 and they were able to make a substantial income off of that platform. 456 00:30:24,781 --> 00:30:30,745 There's this kind of pressure to put forth a certain type of veneer, 457 00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:32,997 a certain type of way of life, 458 00:30:33,081 --> 00:30:37,836 where others are going to want to ask you about the gospel of Jesus Christ. 459 00:30:37,919 --> 00:30:43,007 Ruby is posting on her social media, sharing being a mother and a wife. 460 00:30:43,633 --> 00:30:45,927 "Is my house clean? Are my children fed?" 461 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:47,846 "Do they look a certain way?" 462 00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:50,557 "Am I teaching them correct gospel principles?" 463 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,475 Which is the woman's role. 464 00:30:54,018 --> 00:30:59,065 But there's a lot of opportunity to feel pretty badly about yourself. 465 00:30:59,148 --> 00:31:01,067 Like, "I'm not meeting the standards." 466 00:31:02,443 --> 00:31:05,113 You can say the same thing of Jodi Hildebrandt. 467 00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:07,156 That sense of perfectionism 468 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,493 is something that also tied into her own personal story, 469 00:31:10,577 --> 00:31:13,872 and throughout her career, she would talk about it publicly. 470 00:31:13,955 --> 00:31:16,958 You are probably like, "She's setting herself up for addiction." 471 00:31:17,041 --> 00:31:19,252 Sure enough, I ended up with an eating disorder. 472 00:31:19,335 --> 00:31:21,504 I started trying to control everything 473 00:31:21,588 --> 00:31:24,757 because I had no outlet to emote my emotions. 474 00:31:27,176 --> 00:31:28,720 I married in 1993. 475 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:31,681 When my marriage dissolved three years later, 476 00:31:31,764 --> 00:31:34,017 it caught me somewhat by surprise. 477 00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:36,686 Because my tribe, as I call it, 478 00:31:36,769 --> 00:31:39,939 had not taught me or prepared me for divorce. 479 00:31:41,441 --> 00:31:44,027 I was really wounded inside from 480 00:31:44,110 --> 00:31:46,821 not feeling a protection from the church. 481 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:52,994 At this point in my life, I have two children, 482 00:31:53,077 --> 00:31:55,663 and I decided to enter graduate school. 483 00:31:56,164 --> 00:32:00,460 So I chose to go into the Educational Psychology department, 484 00:32:00,543 --> 00:32:04,005 and began a field of study that intrigued me, 485 00:32:04,088 --> 00:32:07,508 and I began to ask questions about the LDS religion. 486 00:32:07,592 --> 00:32:11,888 This is Jodi Hildebrandt's dissertation that she did during her master's degree. 487 00:32:11,971 --> 00:32:15,934 I started asking friends of mine what their sexual experience was about. 488 00:32:16,017 --> 00:32:21,606 The responses were at times full of confusion, 489 00:32:21,689 --> 00:32:25,401 doubt, guilt, and at many times a lot of shame, 490 00:32:25,485 --> 00:32:29,072 and that stayed with me for many years. 491 00:32:29,155 --> 00:32:31,074 Interesting that this was her dissertation. 492 00:32:31,157 --> 00:32:32,408 This is where she started. 493 00:32:32,492 --> 00:32:34,827 She was concerned about the messages, 494 00:32:34,911 --> 00:32:38,915 in particular, that women were internalizing in regards to sex. 495 00:32:45,922 --> 00:32:50,510 So I met Jodi Hildebrandt in 2011. 496 00:32:51,636 --> 00:32:55,556 Coming to her was the lowest place I'd ever been in my life, 497 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,602 of just, like, "I don't know how else to fix what's going on in my marriage." 498 00:33:00,353 --> 00:33:03,815 "Was it me? Was I, you know, not good enough?" 499 00:33:04,524 --> 00:33:07,443 To be honest, our sex life was off, 500 00:33:07,527 --> 00:33:12,865 but most people in the Mormon culture are raised to be pretty sexually immature. 501 00:33:12,949 --> 00:33:14,325 And I was one of those. 502 00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:21,249 And so I had a friend that had been recommended to Jodi by her bishop. 503 00:33:21,332 --> 00:33:23,751 Whenever a bishop gave advice, 504 00:33:23,835 --> 00:33:26,212 I took it very much like, "This is from God," 505 00:33:26,295 --> 00:33:28,297 because that is what we are taught. 506 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:36,848 Jodi Hildebrandt found success in an area of mental health 507 00:33:36,931 --> 00:33:40,727 that was very aligned with church teachings. 508 00:33:41,227 --> 00:33:44,313 In high-demand, conservative religions, 509 00:33:44,397 --> 00:33:47,900 they're going to have stricter codes around sexual behavior. 510 00:33:47,984 --> 00:33:50,236 Those standards tend to be quite rigid. 511 00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:54,365 No premarital sex, no masturbation even, 512 00:33:54,449 --> 00:33:57,326 no viewing erotic materials like pornography. 513 00:33:58,036 --> 00:33:59,996 The scriptures repeatedly teach 514 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:04,625 that the Spirit of the Lord will not dwell in an unclean tabernacle. 515 00:34:04,709 --> 00:34:06,919 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 516 00:34:07,003 --> 00:34:10,882 put out this type of messaging, which is very effective. 517 00:34:10,965 --> 00:34:12,425 It scares people. 518 00:34:12,508 --> 00:34:16,554 Those who seek out and use pornography for sexual stimulation 519 00:34:16,637 --> 00:34:18,848 obviously violate that covenant. 520 00:34:18,931 --> 00:34:20,391 In the early 2000s, 521 00:34:20,475 --> 00:34:23,895 with the advent of the Internet and of smartphones, 522 00:34:23,978 --> 00:34:27,523 pornography became much more readily available. 523 00:34:27,607 --> 00:34:30,193 So this, in a sense, created a porn panic 524 00:34:30,777 --> 00:34:35,073 that was then very quickly tied 525 00:34:35,156 --> 00:34:38,993 to the addiction language by the church. 526 00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:44,707 Pornography is as addictive as cocaine or any illegal drug. 527 00:34:46,084 --> 00:34:47,960 Jodi Hildebrandt was instrumental 528 00:34:48,044 --> 00:34:52,632 with the 12-step addiction process that the church pretty much implemented. 529 00:34:53,132 --> 00:34:57,011 And now she is saying that addiction models should be used 530 00:34:57,095 --> 00:35:00,389 to treat concerns and issues around sexuality. 531 00:35:01,724 --> 00:35:04,644 The Diagnostic Statistics Manual 532 00:35:04,727 --> 00:35:08,940 is basically the Bible of mental health disorders. 533 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,820 You can't find a code in the DSM-5 for sex addiction or porn addiction. 534 00:35:16,489 --> 00:35:20,952 But treating men who are looking at porn and who objectify women 535 00:35:21,035 --> 00:35:25,498 and who lust after women was supported by the church. 536 00:35:25,581 --> 00:35:32,004 And so Jodi Hildebrandt was on these approved lists of therapists 537 00:35:32,088 --> 00:35:34,924 that a bishop would feel comfortable referring. 538 00:35:38,469 --> 00:35:43,808 Working with Jodi was the first clinical job I had. 539 00:35:43,891 --> 00:35:47,728 She ran groups for men with sexual addiction 540 00:35:47,812 --> 00:35:51,440 and women experiencing betrayal trauma because of that addiction. 541 00:35:52,608 --> 00:35:56,070 I didn't even know about sexual addiction. 542 00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,782 In the interview she said, "Do you know how to confront people?" 543 00:35:59,866 --> 00:36:02,493 And that's the one question I remember from the interview 544 00:36:02,577 --> 00:36:04,495 because it gave me pause. 545 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:07,582 It was an odd language to use. 546 00:36:08,958 --> 00:36:13,504 Confrontation itself is not a therapeutic method. 547 00:36:13,588 --> 00:36:16,424 I said, "I can be honest with feedback." 548 00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:17,758 And she said, "Great," 549 00:36:17,842 --> 00:36:20,094 and kind of immediately hired me. 550 00:36:20,178 --> 00:36:21,345 She was very direct. 551 00:36:21,429 --> 00:36:25,725 I thought she was kind of the embodiment of a woman who knew who she was 552 00:36:25,808 --> 00:36:27,143 and where she was going. 553 00:36:27,894 --> 00:36:30,104 You can see this passion in her videos. 554 00:36:30,188 --> 00:36:33,608 Addiction is just ravaging our world. Like, what's going on? 555 00:36:33,691 --> 00:36:35,484 Well, this is what's going on. 556 00:36:35,568 --> 00:36:38,946 People don't understand that they're choosing distortion 557 00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:42,283 rather than choosing truth because they don't even know this is a thing. 558 00:36:43,534 --> 00:36:47,246 Having grown up very religious, it's common to face a lot of shame 559 00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:50,249 with anything in regards to pornography. 560 00:36:50,333 --> 00:36:52,835 That's something people struggle with, myself included. 561 00:36:52,919 --> 00:36:56,505 It was something that ate at me. Because I felt like I was a good person. 562 00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:58,674 One of the central beliefs 563 00:36:58,758 --> 00:37:01,093 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 564 00:37:01,177 --> 00:37:03,804 is that families are forever 565 00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:08,017 and that families are an integral part of our experience here on earth. 566 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:11,229 To save a marriage is the number one priority. 567 00:37:16,275 --> 00:37:17,610 I got married young. 568 00:37:17,693 --> 00:37:21,530 And I feel like, for the most part, I didn't really know what I was doing. 569 00:37:21,614 --> 00:37:24,951 You know, flash forward a few years now, and it's COVID lockdown. 570 00:37:25,826 --> 00:37:27,203 I have a new baby. 571 00:37:27,286 --> 00:37:30,039 I'm trying to work hard. I'm adjusting to work from home. 572 00:37:30,831 --> 00:37:32,708 And honestly, I was depressed. 573 00:37:32,792 --> 00:37:36,379 And because of that, my marriage was struggling. 574 00:37:37,338 --> 00:37:39,548 I came down from work one day, and my wife said, 575 00:37:39,632 --> 00:37:42,218 "Hey, just so you know, I've joined ConneXions." 576 00:37:43,052 --> 00:37:44,553 "I think it'll be good for me." 577 00:37:44,637 --> 00:37:48,349 "If you value our marriage, I hope you'd consider joining it as well." 578 00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:51,852 I watched a lot of ConneXions videos, 579 00:37:51,936 --> 00:37:54,689 and it made a lot of sense at first. 580 00:37:54,772 --> 00:37:58,442 So there are three core principles. Honesty, responsibility, and humility. 581 00:38:00,027 --> 00:38:01,320 I called Jodi and she said, 582 00:38:01,404 --> 00:38:05,032 "Ethan, my name's Jodi Hildebrandt, and your life's about to change." 583 00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:07,827 "You're gonna start seeing me, and if you value your wife, 584 00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:10,579 if you value being a father and being in your kid's life, 585 00:38:10,663 --> 00:38:12,206 you're gonna do everything I say." 586 00:38:14,375 --> 00:38:17,086 We started meeting weekly that same week. 587 00:38:17,169 --> 00:38:20,423 I went into it very readily to be coached. 588 00:38:22,216 --> 00:38:25,303 As someone who's still very active in the church, 589 00:38:25,386 --> 00:38:28,139 I was terrified of what divorce might mean. 590 00:38:29,557 --> 00:38:33,019 Is this what I'm leaning towards? Like, what did I do to cause this? 591 00:38:33,894 --> 00:38:37,189 I would have done anything to save my family. 592 00:38:47,992 --> 00:38:51,662 My first interview was with Kevin Franke. 593 00:38:51,746 --> 00:38:56,083 I just wanted to build a rapport, get as much information as I can. 594 00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:59,879 And clearly, being the father, he's a suspect at this point. 595 00:39:00,463 --> 00:39:02,048 How many kids do you have, Kevin? 596 00:39:02,131 --> 00:39:03,466 I have six kids. 597 00:39:03,549 --> 00:39:06,052 So are they all living with you? Or… 598 00:39:06,135 --> 00:39:08,929 No, I haven't seen them for over a year. 599 00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:10,222 Any of them? 600 00:39:10,765 --> 00:39:12,808 No, none of them. 601 00:39:12,892 --> 00:39:13,976 For a year? 602 00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:15,186 -Over a year. -Okay-- 603 00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:18,314 I've been in a separation. 604 00:39:18,397 --> 00:39:20,024 From who? 605 00:39:20,107 --> 00:39:21,609 From my wife and family. 606 00:39:21,692 --> 00:39:22,985 What's your wife's name? 607 00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:24,278 Ruby Franke. 608 00:39:25,529 --> 00:39:31,369 So when did Ruby and Jodi, to your knowledge, decide to collaborate? 609 00:39:31,452 --> 00:39:36,290 Well, they decided to start a business 610 00:39:36,374 --> 00:39:38,709 in 2021. 611 00:39:38,793 --> 00:39:41,712 So while you and Ruby were together? 612 00:39:41,796 --> 00:39:42,630 Yes. 613 00:39:42,713 --> 00:39:43,923 Okay. 614 00:39:46,258 --> 00:39:47,385 Okay, have a seat. 615 00:39:47,468 --> 00:39:49,595 First room on the right. 616 00:39:53,557 --> 00:39:55,851 Do you respect her? Jodi? 617 00:39:55,935 --> 00:40:01,690 Do I respect her? Yeah, I think she's a very honest, truthful person, yes. 618 00:40:01,774 --> 00:40:04,485 Okay. Is your wife a partner of hers? 619 00:40:04,568 --> 00:40:07,446 Is your wife a roommate with her? 620 00:40:07,530 --> 00:40:10,991 Your kids are living in her house, is what I'm trying to say. 621 00:40:11,575 --> 00:40:12,952 I'm not aware of that. 622 00:40:15,704 --> 00:40:18,416 We're just here to talk to you about, 623 00:40:18,499 --> 00:40:21,043 you know, a few things involving your kids. 624 00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:24,463 Ruby Franke, in the interview room… 625 00:40:24,547 --> 00:40:26,132 It was weird. It was odd. 626 00:40:26,966 --> 00:40:28,968 Do you live down here or… 627 00:40:34,014 --> 00:40:35,558 I can wait all day. 628 00:40:35,641 --> 00:40:40,396 So it's up to you if you want to talk to us about what's going on. 629 00:40:45,901 --> 00:40:50,281 Just the long, long gaze, the blinking… 630 00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:52,741 I don't know what's going on. 631 00:40:52,825 --> 00:40:56,996 Or if you feel more comfortable talking to him, I can step out. 632 00:40:57,746 --> 00:40:59,665 I'll wait until I have a lawyer. 633 00:40:59,748 --> 00:41:00,708 Okay. 634 00:41:03,836 --> 00:41:07,631 In Jodi's interview, she did put off this persona 635 00:41:07,715 --> 00:41:10,050 like she was a good person and wanted to help, 636 00:41:10,926 --> 00:41:12,595 but she was advised not to. 637 00:41:12,678 --> 00:41:15,890 So I trust my attorney. He said, "Don't say anything." 638 00:41:15,973 --> 00:41:18,350 I said, "I have nothing to hide." He's like, "I know, 639 00:41:18,434 --> 00:41:20,811 but let me be there with you when we talk." 640 00:41:20,895 --> 00:41:23,647 So, you guys seem… nice people. 641 00:41:23,731 --> 00:41:24,690 Yeah. 642 00:41:24,773 --> 00:41:28,194 I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm not trying to be difficult. 643 00:41:28,277 --> 00:41:29,737 This is really… 644 00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:33,908 If you knew all the pieces, I think you'd have a lot of empathy… 645 00:41:33,991 --> 00:41:35,951 -Well… -…for what's going on. 646 00:41:36,452 --> 00:41:41,332 From an investigation perspective, we had a thousand questions at that point. 647 00:41:41,415 --> 00:41:44,877 We have two kids who are afraid to talk to authorities, 648 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:50,174 and we have two adults who we're assuming are the abusers. 649 00:41:50,257 --> 00:41:54,011 And so we didn't understand what was the relationship between those two, 650 00:41:54,094 --> 00:41:58,557 what was going on there, what was motivating any of this. 651 00:41:58,641 --> 00:42:03,145 We weren't sure how we'd figure that out because no one was talking at that point. 652 00:42:03,896 --> 00:42:07,024 We want to have an understanding of what's going on in that home. 653 00:42:07,107 --> 00:42:10,194 I'd like to just tell you, but I don't know who you are. 654 00:42:10,277 --> 00:42:12,863 I don't know if you're gonna flip my words. I don't know. 655 00:42:12,947 --> 00:42:14,448 The good thing about cameras, 656 00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:18,160 everything, it's pretty much double-recorded. Audio, video… 657 00:42:18,244 --> 00:42:22,581 I'm a psychologist. I've watched people flip things all the time. 658 00:42:22,665 --> 00:42:27,962 So I get it. I sit on your side. I get it. 659 00:42:28,462 --> 00:42:30,923 I wish people didn't do that, but they do. 660 00:42:35,302 --> 00:42:39,306 When I learned about ConneXions and had searched a little about Jodi, 661 00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:43,310 I also learned that her therapy license had been put on probation. 662 00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:48,857 This was years prior for some client confidentiality reasons. 663 00:42:51,485 --> 00:42:55,823 In 2011, a subpoena came to our office one day, 664 00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:58,993 and Jodi and I both were surprised. She opened it. 665 00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:02,621 It was from a client who was accusing her of HIPAA violations. 666 00:43:03,539 --> 00:43:08,377 HIPAA violations are when you share client personal information 667 00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:10,462 that you have no right to share. 668 00:43:11,463 --> 00:43:14,174 She let me know that the subpoena had stated that, 669 00:43:14,258 --> 00:43:16,468 because the client looked at pornography, 670 00:43:16,552 --> 00:43:18,679 she claimed he was a sexual predator 671 00:43:18,762 --> 00:43:21,640 and gave that information to not only his college 672 00:43:21,724 --> 00:43:23,517 but also his ecclesiastical leader. 673 00:43:25,436 --> 00:43:29,356 She was angry and bothered, and said it was in his best interest 674 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,694 because he was still actively engaged in addictive behavior. 675 00:43:35,154 --> 00:43:37,865 Her license was put on probation, 676 00:43:37,948 --> 00:43:40,659 but Jodi's business still grew during that time 677 00:43:40,743 --> 00:43:45,247 because she was getting around that restriction by presenting as a life coach 678 00:43:45,331 --> 00:43:47,082 rather than a therapist. 679 00:43:47,958 --> 00:43:51,712 And her new business, ConneXions, was exploding online. 680 00:43:52,504 --> 00:43:55,132 She had revenue streams from groups and individual therapy. 681 00:43:55,215 --> 00:43:58,385 She wrote workbooks. She had online content. 682 00:43:58,469 --> 00:44:04,058 As a businesswoman, Jodi really knew and understood how to build an empire. 683 00:44:04,558 --> 00:44:07,394 If you're like me, you've had pain in your life. 684 00:44:07,478 --> 00:44:10,439 Feelings that you're not enough, that you're unlovable. 685 00:44:10,522 --> 00:44:13,359 ConneXions is the solution. 686 00:44:14,443 --> 00:44:18,530 As a therapist, you have appropriate relationships with clients. 687 00:44:18,614 --> 00:44:21,367 You treat clients with dignity and respect. 688 00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,661 Those are all reality in my world. 689 00:44:23,744 --> 00:44:28,040 I think Jodi started moving farther and farther away from reality. 690 00:44:32,002 --> 00:44:36,590 According to Jodi, my husband had a sexual addiction. 691 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,386 Her definition of addiction was 692 00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:43,681 if you look at pornography one time in a year, 693 00:44:43,764 --> 00:44:45,224 that is considered an addiction. 694 00:44:48,394 --> 00:44:51,271 I was labeled a lust addict from the first time I met her. 695 00:44:51,772 --> 00:44:53,732 I was like, "What if she's right?" 696 00:44:54,858 --> 00:44:56,527 And so I was desperate for change, 697 00:44:56,610 --> 00:45:00,197 and I think I was willing to try the ConneXions program. 698 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,034 Jodi invited me to start watching videos, 699 00:45:04,118 --> 00:45:05,703 listening to podcasts. 700 00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:08,539 Once you are caught in lust's lie, 701 00:45:08,622 --> 00:45:11,375 hearing shame messages and not being able to feel emotion, 702 00:45:11,458 --> 00:45:13,460 you just disconnect. 703 00:45:13,961 --> 00:45:18,716 According to Jodi, men are like children that can't manage themselves. 704 00:45:18,799 --> 00:45:23,011 They're an addict. It's like everyone just automatically got labeled as such. 705 00:45:23,971 --> 00:45:25,764 So then she started training you 706 00:45:25,848 --> 00:45:27,933 and teaching you how to deal with an addict, 707 00:45:28,016 --> 00:45:29,351 which was control. 708 00:45:31,186 --> 00:45:35,524 Anything that could lead to pornography, I was advised to take it. 709 00:45:35,607 --> 00:45:37,151 I took away his smartphone. 710 00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:41,613 If I was afraid there could be something that was inappropriate for him to watch, 711 00:45:41,697 --> 00:45:43,782 I would cancel our subscription. 712 00:45:44,283 --> 00:45:46,785 I would get rid of our internet. 713 00:45:46,869 --> 00:45:49,079 It was the first time that it was like, "Oh my gosh, 714 00:45:49,163 --> 00:45:51,874 I can do something about my life." 715 00:45:53,667 --> 00:45:55,753 I do believe Jodi Hildebrandt was 716 00:45:55,836 --> 00:45:58,255 maybe more forthcoming about sexual topics 717 00:45:58,338 --> 00:46:00,132 than we typically tend to be in our culture. 718 00:46:00,215 --> 00:46:03,969 So you can see how women are feeling empowered. 719 00:46:04,636 --> 00:46:07,598 Maybe for the first time, they can put limits 720 00:46:07,681 --> 00:46:11,602 on a sexual life that may or may not have been healthy to begin with. 721 00:46:11,685 --> 00:46:16,565 I always viewed sex as a currency, as an expectation. 722 00:46:16,648 --> 00:46:22,029 This seems to be a video that Ruby and Kevin Franke put together, 723 00:46:22,112 --> 00:46:26,450 as far as their experience… How well ConneXions is serving them. 724 00:46:26,533 --> 00:46:30,954 Today, I would say there is a lot of safety. 725 00:46:31,038 --> 00:46:32,790 There is a lot of trust. 726 00:46:32,873 --> 00:46:37,002 For me, sex today is a million times more enjoyable 727 00:46:37,085 --> 00:46:42,007 because it's real and because it's genuine and it feels… 728 00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:43,926 wholesome. 729 00:46:44,927 --> 00:46:46,428 The boundaries that were set, 730 00:46:46,512 --> 00:46:49,223 a lot of times, they didn't come from the wife. 731 00:46:49,306 --> 00:46:51,600 They came from Jodi inserting herself. 732 00:46:51,683 --> 00:46:55,270 And that's not empowering the wife to be any stronger. 733 00:46:55,354 --> 00:46:57,815 She's just listening to somebody else direct her. 734 00:47:01,610 --> 00:47:03,862 I started attending one of her men's groups. 735 00:47:03,946 --> 00:47:06,281 I was also meeting with Jodi every single week. 736 00:47:06,949 --> 00:47:11,411 The language that Jodi would use to someone like me in the men's group 737 00:47:12,496 --> 00:47:15,958 was very different from what she was using elsewhere with the women. 738 00:47:16,041 --> 00:47:18,252 And it was then that I started to kind of see 739 00:47:18,335 --> 00:47:21,588 how she shapeshifts in front of different people and audiences. 740 00:47:22,881 --> 00:47:27,928 This is an excerpt from one of my journals that I recently kind of dug up. 741 00:47:28,011 --> 00:47:30,222 So Jodi would say things like, 742 00:47:30,973 --> 00:47:34,184 "You need to be looking up every word that's synonymous with 743 00:47:34,268 --> 00:47:37,563 'ravaged,' 'exploited,' 'rape.'" 744 00:47:38,689 --> 00:47:41,066 But in my situation, there was no infidelity. 745 00:47:41,149 --> 00:47:42,609 There was no abuse. 746 00:47:42,693 --> 00:47:44,361 It was just that constant push of, 747 00:47:44,444 --> 00:47:47,656 "Ethan, you have no idea how deep your addiction runs." 748 00:47:47,739 --> 00:47:49,241 "You are a monster." 749 00:47:49,992 --> 00:47:51,577 I would hear things like, 750 00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:55,831 "So whenever I relapsed, my wife would have to deny me sex, 751 00:47:55,914 --> 00:48:00,669 or access to the children, or even being asked now to leave the home." 752 00:48:00,752 --> 00:48:04,548 Those were very problematic things we started hearing about. 753 00:48:06,174 --> 00:48:08,886 She kept telling us, "You don't need sex." 754 00:48:08,969 --> 00:48:12,598 There would be no sexual relationship in any way. 755 00:48:14,516 --> 00:48:17,352 My marriage was not improving. 756 00:48:17,436 --> 00:48:21,398 And so Jodi advised that we have a year-long separation 757 00:48:21,481 --> 00:48:23,400 with absolutely no contact. 758 00:48:23,483 --> 00:48:26,194 During that time, I did end up, you know, in the hospital, 759 00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:29,531 and she wouldn't let me call him or text him and let him know. 760 00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:34,786 There was no help in trying to get us to reunite. 761 00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:37,748 It was just no contact. The end. 762 00:48:40,125 --> 00:48:43,253 My wife had just met with Jodi a few days before, 763 00:48:43,337 --> 00:48:47,341 and Jodi had counseled her on what to say, how to approach the situation. 764 00:48:47,925 --> 00:48:49,885 She said, "I'm gonna leave for a little bit, 765 00:48:49,968 --> 00:48:52,262 and when I come back, I don't want you to be here." 766 00:48:52,346 --> 00:48:56,516 At first I was like, "What is going on?" Like, I was completely shell-shocked. 767 00:48:57,517 --> 00:48:59,394 I called Jodi, and she said, 768 00:48:59,478 --> 00:49:02,773 "If you're in this program, it's because you are not safe." 769 00:49:02,856 --> 00:49:06,652 "And so as Jodi Hildebrandt, the person called of God to fix this problem, 770 00:49:06,735 --> 00:49:08,153 I have to separate you." 771 00:49:10,656 --> 00:49:15,827 I've had men come to my practice after seeing Jodi Hildebrandt. 772 00:49:16,703 --> 00:49:18,872 The wife has been convinced 773 00:49:18,956 --> 00:49:21,083 that Jodi's program is the only way 774 00:49:21,166 --> 00:49:23,460 they're gonna be able to save their family. 775 00:49:24,419 --> 00:49:26,213 And he feels stuck. 776 00:49:26,296 --> 00:49:28,256 Like, "If I push back…" 777 00:49:28,340 --> 00:49:32,552 Immediately the wife says to him, "You are in denial." 778 00:49:33,595 --> 00:49:38,058 Or, "You are in distortion," which is this word that Jodi Hildebrandt has used 779 00:49:38,141 --> 00:49:40,477 prominently in her messaging. 780 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,981 You're either making choices that support truth or support distortion… 781 00:49:44,064 --> 00:49:46,650 You have consciousness around truth and distortion… 782 00:49:46,733 --> 00:49:48,151 …be attacked by distortion… 783 00:49:48,235 --> 00:49:51,238 Truth doesn't matter. Let's go there. We're choosing distortion. 784 00:49:51,321 --> 00:49:54,908 Learning principles of truth… …really is the truth. 785 00:49:59,329 --> 00:50:03,166 As I went through my journal, six or seven times I had written down, 786 00:50:03,917 --> 00:50:06,753 "I have a hard time trusting Jodi." 787 00:50:08,338 --> 00:50:12,342 It was this crazy push and pull between her and I of, 788 00:50:12,426 --> 00:50:16,513 I'm trying to be compliant, which is what she was looking for, 789 00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:18,598 but I was just constantly 790 00:50:18,682 --> 00:50:22,227 spinning around trying to understand what she was even asking me to do. 791 00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:31,528 I went from the end of January until partway through May of that year, 792 00:50:31,611 --> 00:50:33,363 almost completely in isolation. 793 00:50:38,827 --> 00:50:41,121 My separation was very dark. 794 00:50:41,204 --> 00:50:43,707 It was some of the darkest moments of my life. 795 00:50:44,332 --> 00:50:49,254 It's like as if you were being tortured and someone is just beating you down 796 00:50:49,337 --> 00:50:50,547 and they're saying to you, 797 00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:52,966 "This thing could stop if you'll just listen to me." 798 00:50:53,842 --> 00:50:56,511 Isolation, loneliness, 799 00:50:57,387 --> 00:50:58,764 hopelessness. 800 00:50:58,847 --> 00:51:02,267 It was something I hope no one ever has to go through. 801 00:51:04,561 --> 00:51:08,940 And she tried so hard to break me down and to… 802 00:51:09,024 --> 00:51:10,025 Excuse me. 803 00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:12,569 To ruin my family. 804 00:51:13,695 --> 00:51:17,157 Jodi threatened me that I would never see my kid again. 805 00:51:30,295 --> 00:51:33,381 Did you ever try to reach out to the kids, drop by the home? 806 00:51:33,465 --> 00:51:34,299 No. 807 00:51:34,382 --> 00:51:39,179 I honored the separation boundary that we agreed to. 808 00:51:40,388 --> 00:51:42,390 Is it that you came to the realization 809 00:51:42,474 --> 00:51:44,976 you needed help 'cause you weren't doing things right? 810 00:51:45,060 --> 00:51:47,687 Or is it that Jodi helped you guys recognize that… 811 00:51:47,771 --> 00:51:52,859 I'm trying to understand her involvement in your guys' life. 812 00:51:52,943 --> 00:51:55,946 -Um… -She's my focus, just to be honest. 813 00:51:56,029 --> 00:51:59,116 I understand, and I can perceive that. 814 00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:03,453 Uh, Jodi and Ruby have a close relationship, 815 00:52:03,537 --> 00:52:07,958 and Jodi saw 816 00:52:08,041 --> 00:52:10,585 the need for me to get help 817 00:52:10,669 --> 00:52:15,966 to face, you know, my own addictions 818 00:52:16,049 --> 00:52:20,929 and… and receive the support and help that I've needed. 819 00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:24,307 It was important to us to understand 820 00:52:24,391 --> 00:52:26,768 that Kevin was completely removed from the situation. 821 00:52:26,852 --> 00:52:28,186 Because normally, 822 00:52:28,270 --> 00:52:32,190 if someone's kids are abused over a course of three or four months, 823 00:52:32,983 --> 00:52:36,987 the parent who's allowing that abuse to happen is guilty of a crime. 824 00:52:37,070 --> 00:52:41,700 But he had been told by Jodi, "Move out and don't have any contact." 825 00:52:42,534 --> 00:52:44,536 And so that's what he did. 826 00:52:45,203 --> 00:52:48,248 Well, you're the custodial parent of these children. 827 00:52:48,331 --> 00:52:53,461 I don't see why we can't explain to you why we're involved. 828 00:52:53,545 --> 00:52:56,840 Sometime before eleven o'clock today, 829 00:52:56,923 --> 00:53:02,179 we received a phone call from 911 on our dispatch 830 00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:03,847 that… 831 00:53:05,056 --> 00:53:11,813 a 12-year-old boy was knocking on doors asking for food and water. 832 00:53:11,897 --> 00:53:15,400 That he was severely emaciated. That he had-- 833 00:53:15,483 --> 00:53:16,985 What does "emaciated" mean? 834 00:53:17,068 --> 00:53:19,821 Skinny, scrawny, malnutritioned, 835 00:53:19,905 --> 00:53:23,533 not enough food, not enough water to sustain life. 836 00:53:24,201 --> 00:53:25,994 -So he had-- -I'm sorry, what? 837 00:53:26,077 --> 00:53:29,289 He had duct tape on his extremities, 838 00:53:29,372 --> 00:53:32,792 on his hands, on his ankles, 839 00:53:32,876 --> 00:53:38,006 and those were covering rope burns that were used to tie him down. 840 00:53:40,759 --> 00:53:45,180 Take a second and think about what I just said. 841 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,267 That's the condition of your son. 842 00:53:52,854 --> 00:53:55,565 His shock is sincere. 843 00:53:55,649 --> 00:53:57,484 He is just flabbergasted. 844 00:53:58,276 --> 00:54:00,862 I wouldn't say Kevin's interview helped me understand 845 00:54:00,946 --> 00:54:01,947 what went on in the house 846 00:54:02,030 --> 00:54:05,492 because he had no involvement for the last year. 847 00:54:05,575 --> 00:54:09,829 But we were really able to eliminate him as a suspect. 848 00:54:13,375 --> 00:54:16,753 We were wrapping our heads around a really weird situation. 849 00:54:16,836 --> 00:54:21,925 It had been over a year since anybody had any real contact with him other than Jodi, 850 00:54:22,008 --> 00:54:24,886 who was still having regular contact with him, 851 00:54:24,970 --> 00:54:28,098 and keeping him out of the house and estranged from the family 852 00:54:28,181 --> 00:54:30,100 as she was "working with him." 853 00:54:33,061 --> 00:54:37,607 The biggest thing that I missed out on was the relationship with my daughter. 854 00:54:38,191 --> 00:54:39,401 She was young at the time, 855 00:54:39,484 --> 00:54:43,321 and since day one, we had a lot of fun together. 856 00:54:43,405 --> 00:54:46,032 I'm somebody who really loves being a dad, 857 00:54:46,783 --> 00:54:51,746 and so I'd write in my journal constantly that I was afraid of Jodi's timetable. 858 00:54:54,165 --> 00:54:55,834 She'd casually make comments like, 859 00:54:55,917 --> 00:54:58,712 "Sometimes these things take six months, sometimes two years." 860 00:55:00,422 --> 00:55:03,675 I ended up missing my daughter's first birthday because, 861 00:55:03,758 --> 00:55:06,344 you know, I was trying to be compliant to the program. 862 00:55:06,428 --> 00:55:10,056 I went in to Jodi and I brought that up, and she ripped me. 863 00:55:10,807 --> 00:55:14,894 And she was like, "A humble person wouldn't question me even." 864 00:55:16,980 --> 00:55:18,648 I had to depend on her. 865 00:55:18,732 --> 00:55:21,985 Like, she was the authority figure of my life. 866 00:55:22,068 --> 00:55:25,363 I got to a point where I even trusted her over religious leaders, 867 00:55:25,447 --> 00:55:29,576 which was huge for me, since that was a big part of how I was raised. 868 00:55:32,037 --> 00:55:35,081 Jodi is 100% convinced 869 00:55:35,165 --> 00:55:39,252 that she is acting as a mouthpiece for God in addiction recovery. 870 00:55:40,045 --> 00:55:43,381 She's told us multiple times that this was her calling, 871 00:55:43,465 --> 00:55:46,801 that she had many dreams and manifestations 872 00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:50,013 that confirmed to her that this was her life's work. 873 00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:55,143 Jodi was so good at taking vulnerable people 874 00:55:55,226 --> 00:55:58,688 who were coming to her because they were not in a great place in their lives, 875 00:55:58,772 --> 00:56:00,815 framing it in a religious context 876 00:56:00,899 --> 00:56:04,486 that kind of fit enough with other stuff that they'd been taught, 877 00:56:04,569 --> 00:56:06,196 and then pushing them to do things 878 00:56:06,279 --> 00:56:09,366 that I know a normal therapist wouldn't be encouraging people to do. 879 00:56:10,658 --> 00:56:12,911 She found a niche and she marketed it. 880 00:56:13,495 --> 00:56:17,540 And Jodi was very successful at getting people to give her money. 881 00:56:19,709 --> 00:56:21,503 When we were searching the residence, 882 00:56:21,586 --> 00:56:25,965 in Jodi Hildebrandt's closet, we located a large duffel bag 883 00:56:26,049 --> 00:56:29,135 with about $80,000 cash. 884 00:56:29,219 --> 00:56:32,555 Jodi was making a lot of money. I mean, I could do some math right now. 885 00:56:33,556 --> 00:56:38,686 I was paying her $175 an hour for every individual session, 886 00:56:38,770 --> 00:56:42,565 and then a men's or women's group, it's $75 per week. 887 00:56:42,649 --> 00:56:45,985 Paying for yourself and another person, that was $2,000. 888 00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:51,533 In Jodi's office, I located a book with all of her clients. 889 00:56:51,616 --> 00:56:53,743 She was meeting, like, 46 people a week. 890 00:56:57,539 --> 00:57:01,459 We were paying more than our mortgage to Jodi every month. 891 00:57:01,543 --> 00:57:05,004 We ended up in so much debt, we had maxed out all of our credit cards. 892 00:57:05,088 --> 00:57:07,757 We paid well over $50,000. 893 00:57:07,841 --> 00:57:11,094 And I remember at the time saying, like, "It's worth it for us to heal 894 00:57:11,177 --> 00:57:12,929 and then have a good life together." 895 00:57:18,393 --> 00:57:22,355 I'm having a hard time accepting this and dealing with this. 896 00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:28,153 You realize that I have a picture of my family on my wall. 897 00:57:28,236 --> 00:57:30,363 And I look at it every day. 898 00:57:30,447 --> 00:57:34,409 And I work. I work every day… 899 00:57:35,827 --> 00:57:40,790 so I can get back to my family and save my family. 900 00:57:40,874 --> 00:57:46,254 Everything you're sharing to me just sounds like a made-up story. Like, I… 901 00:57:48,381 --> 00:57:51,259 I have no idea what you're talking about. 902 00:57:51,342 --> 00:57:52,469 Up the stairs. 903 00:57:55,472 --> 00:57:59,184 This just… It sounds like a horror movie. 904 00:57:59,976 --> 00:58:01,686 We'll go out the front door that way. 905 00:58:07,609 --> 00:58:09,694 We'll put her on the right side. 906 00:58:11,029 --> 00:58:13,823 -Hang on one second here in the lobby. -Okay. 907 00:58:13,907 --> 00:58:18,077 What's going to happen to my wife? I love my wife. 908 00:58:18,161 --> 00:58:19,871 So you're under arrest. 909 00:58:19,954 --> 00:58:22,165 It's going to be two counts, 910 00:58:22,248 --> 00:58:26,252 second-degree felony in child abuse or neglect, okay? 911 00:58:26,836 --> 00:58:28,463 Do you understand that or no? 912 00:58:32,258 --> 00:58:33,760 Are you okay? 913 00:58:34,302 --> 00:58:37,096 I'm wondering if there's a medical clearance that needs to… 914 00:58:37,180 --> 00:58:40,141 Like, do you need medical attention before you go to the jail? 915 00:58:40,225 --> 00:58:41,059 No. 916 00:58:41,142 --> 00:58:41,976 Okay. 917 00:58:42,477 --> 00:58:44,521 All right, well, we'll have you… 918 00:58:44,604 --> 00:58:46,898 As soon as she gets done here, we'll bring her out. 919 00:58:50,401 --> 00:58:51,236 Hop on in. 920 00:58:51,945 --> 00:58:56,658 Ruby and Jodi were both under arrest for two counts of child abuse. 921 00:58:57,450 --> 00:59:01,538 And when I put Jodi in the car, she said, 922 00:59:02,205 --> 00:59:04,666 "I really want you to hear me out." 923 00:59:06,209 --> 00:59:11,130 And I was like, "You asked for a lawyer, I will respect that decision, 924 00:59:11,214 --> 00:59:13,466 and I'm not gonna ask you any questions." 925 00:59:13,550 --> 00:59:16,261 And she said, "But hear me out when I say 926 00:59:16,344 --> 00:59:18,805 those kids should never be around any other kids." 927 00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,184 After she made that comment, 928 00:59:23,268 --> 00:59:27,355 I knew that clearly she had direct involvement in isolating those children. 929 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:33,361 I believed she and Ruby were a threat to the children. 930 00:59:35,154 --> 00:59:39,450 And that was enough for us to request the no bail on both of them. 931 00:59:40,493 --> 00:59:42,954 Do you have any questions for me at this time? 932 00:59:44,289 --> 00:59:45,123 No questions? 933 00:59:45,206 --> 00:59:46,624 Okay, you can hop in. 934 00:59:47,584 --> 00:59:48,876 You got her? 935 00:59:50,795 --> 00:59:52,005 They were transported 936 00:59:52,088 --> 00:59:55,633 to the Washington County Purgatory Correctional Facility 937 00:59:55,717 --> 00:59:59,804 singing hymns in the back of the car on the way to the jail together. 938 01:00:04,601 --> 01:00:07,186 This is a call from and paid for by… 939 01:00:07,979 --> 01:00:09,397 Jodi Hildebrandt. 940 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,484 …an inmate at Purgatory Correctional Facility. 941 01:00:14,235 --> 01:00:15,570 -Are you there? -Yeah. 942 01:00:15,653 --> 01:00:18,281 Okay. So, The Lord says, 943 01:00:18,364 --> 01:00:20,366 that, "First they'll lay their hands on you 944 01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:22,368 and persecute you, 945 01:00:22,452 --> 01:00:25,663 delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons." 946 01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:27,707 Wow. 947 01:00:28,499 --> 01:00:29,417 So then he says, 948 01:00:29,500 --> 01:00:33,171 "And ye shall be betrayed by both parents and brethren 949 01:00:33,254 --> 01:00:35,715 and kinsfolk and friends." 950 01:00:35,798 --> 01:00:37,800 I'm like… 951 01:00:37,884 --> 01:00:39,802 Oh my gosh, that's exactly what's going on. 952 01:00:43,973 --> 01:00:48,811 Shocking allegations as Utah mommy blogger with millions of followers is arrested, 953 01:00:48,895 --> 01:00:50,313 accused of child abuse. 954 01:00:50,396 --> 01:00:54,108 Disturbing details have surfaced, and the reaction has been swift. 955 01:00:54,192 --> 01:00:57,278 People are coming forward about their time with ConneXions Classroom. 956 01:00:57,362 --> 01:01:01,032 It's the counseling service run by Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Franke… 957 01:01:06,954 --> 01:01:10,750 I was getting an insane amount of phone calls every day. 958 01:01:10,833 --> 01:01:15,129 A lot of the tips were from people saying they were victims of Jodi Hildebrandt. 959 01:01:16,255 --> 01:01:20,426 And one of them was a family member of Jodi's. 960 01:01:21,135 --> 01:01:23,763 Jessi uses the pronouns they/them. 961 01:01:23,846 --> 01:01:27,308 At the time, she would have considered herself Jodi's niece. 962 01:01:27,392 --> 01:01:31,354 I was left in her care when I was a teenager, for a little under a year. 963 01:01:33,064 --> 01:01:37,735 Jessi described what Jodi had done 14 years prior. 964 01:01:40,947 --> 01:01:43,783 Jessi talked about waking up one morning, 965 01:01:43,866 --> 01:01:46,703 having Jodi come in to them, and say, 966 01:01:46,786 --> 01:01:48,663 "Your parents are gone. You live here now." 967 01:01:48,746 --> 01:01:52,750 Because Jessi needed to be reformed. 968 01:01:53,292 --> 01:01:56,963 I experienced being tied. I experienced being duct taped. 969 01:01:57,046 --> 01:01:59,382 I was forced to sleep outside in the snow. 970 01:02:02,635 --> 01:02:04,178 I'm Christi Judd. 971 01:02:04,262 --> 01:02:06,764 My husband and I lived in American Fork 972 01:02:06,848 --> 01:02:09,434 right around the corner from Jodi Hildebrandt. 973 01:02:10,393 --> 01:02:12,353 She was divorced at the time. 974 01:02:12,437 --> 01:02:14,605 It was just her and her two children. 975 01:02:16,357 --> 01:02:21,028 Jessi was full of life when she first got there. 976 01:02:21,112 --> 01:02:23,197 She was the same age as my oldest son. 977 01:02:23,281 --> 01:02:27,243 I just thought they would be instant best friends. 978 01:02:27,326 --> 01:02:29,620 But then we'd make plans… 979 01:02:30,413 --> 01:02:33,791 Always at the last minute, we couldn't get a hold of her. 980 01:02:33,875 --> 01:02:37,837 While living with Jodi, I experienced severe isolation, 981 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,340 being told I shouldn't be around other people, 982 01:02:41,424 --> 01:02:44,177 being told that I was dangerous to be around. 983 01:02:45,178 --> 01:02:48,639 I just saw less and less of her. 984 01:02:48,723 --> 01:02:52,435 I was never allowed to have the door closed because she was convinced 985 01:02:52,518 --> 01:02:56,022 that I was just constantly masturbating. 986 01:02:56,105 --> 01:02:58,149 She was convinced that I was addicted to porn. 987 01:02:59,108 --> 01:03:01,360 I had no idea what these things were. 988 01:03:01,986 --> 01:03:03,613 But I just believed her 989 01:03:03,696 --> 01:03:07,200 because she'd use religion and God as a mode of control. 990 01:03:07,283 --> 01:03:10,286 She wanted to make my life so uncomfortable 991 01:03:10,369 --> 01:03:11,871 that it would force the sin out. 992 01:03:13,122 --> 01:03:15,583 So I would confess to things that I didn't do as a way 993 01:03:15,666 --> 01:03:17,835 of trying to get the abuse to stop. 994 01:03:20,213 --> 01:03:25,843 Talking to Jessi really helped me better understand what Jodi's mindset is. 995 01:03:26,844 --> 01:03:29,055 The power play. The control over everything. 996 01:03:30,139 --> 01:03:33,893 While Jodi hadn't previously been charged for abuse, 997 01:03:33,976 --> 01:03:37,855 this is a pattern, and it's been ongoing for many years. 998 01:03:37,939 --> 01:03:41,442 And Ruby Franke's two kids are not the first victims. 999 01:03:44,570 --> 01:03:47,073 I went to the police when I was 16. I went… 1000 01:03:47,156 --> 01:03:49,784 I tried to do what I could. 1001 01:03:50,493 --> 01:03:52,787 And no one believed me, because why would they? 1002 01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:55,498 She destroyed my credibility. I was an angry teenager. 1003 01:03:58,751 --> 01:04:02,088 When I realized the truth of what was happening, 1004 01:04:02,171 --> 01:04:06,968 there was so much guilt that I was right there and didn't even know. 1005 01:04:07,051 --> 01:04:09,178 And to be honest, I was so naive. 1006 01:04:09,262 --> 01:04:14,809 I never believed that a parent figure, an aunt, 1007 01:04:14,892 --> 01:04:19,981 would ever treat a child like that. I didn't even know that that was possible. 1008 01:04:25,027 --> 01:04:28,322 I learned more about Jodi's family. 1009 01:04:28,406 --> 01:04:31,200 Her two children were adults now, 1010 01:04:31,284 --> 01:04:34,996 and she was estranged from both of them. They didn't want any contact with her. 1011 01:04:37,081 --> 01:04:40,960 Jodi shared very little with us about her own history. 1012 01:04:41,043 --> 01:04:43,087 She told us one time about her Thanksgiving 1013 01:04:43,170 --> 01:04:47,216 where she went home to her family and how just everyone hated her. 1014 01:04:47,967 --> 01:04:50,177 I remember thinking, "That's weird." 1015 01:04:50,261 --> 01:04:54,807 "Like, I'm coming to you so that I can repair these relationships with my family, 1016 01:04:54,891 --> 01:04:59,103 and yet you have no one in your family that values you or respects you." 1017 01:05:00,521 --> 01:05:02,690 I don't know much about Jodi's past. 1018 01:05:02,773 --> 01:05:05,985 In her youth she was in the paper because she was a basketball star. 1019 01:05:06,068 --> 01:05:07,612 She was a beauty queen. 1020 01:05:08,112 --> 01:05:09,572 But later, there were videos 1021 01:05:09,655 --> 01:05:13,200 suggesting that she had trauma that she experienced in her youth. 1022 01:05:13,284 --> 01:05:20,291 I remember as a teenager and young adult feeling so overwhelmed with pain. 1023 01:05:20,374 --> 01:05:23,586 Sometimes it was low-grade. Sometimes it was really intense. 1024 01:05:23,669 --> 01:05:29,842 But it always had this base that said, "You don't matter. You're not enough." 1025 01:05:33,179 --> 01:05:36,641 And then in 2020, she announced that she'd written a book. 1026 01:05:36,724 --> 01:05:39,435 I wanted to share with you 1027 01:05:41,062 --> 01:05:44,357 a book that I wrote called, You Are Not "Not Enough." 1028 01:05:44,941 --> 01:05:46,984 She wrote about her childhood. 1029 01:05:48,361 --> 01:05:52,031 How she was abused several times by teenage boys. 1030 01:05:52,114 --> 01:05:56,661 "These experiences encased me in confusion, isolation and fear, 1031 01:05:56,744 --> 01:06:00,164 so much so that I conveniently forgot about them 1032 01:06:00,247 --> 01:06:02,166 until I was in my early twenties." 1033 01:06:04,877 --> 01:06:08,339 "God's grace allowed me to forget so I could manage my young life, 1034 01:06:08,422 --> 01:06:09,757 though there were signs 1035 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,635 that I didn't recognize of my armor cracking." 1036 01:06:14,095 --> 01:06:18,224 She talks about the disassociation she had from her trauma. 1037 01:06:18,307 --> 01:06:22,770 And people that experience that level of trauma in their childhood 1038 01:06:22,853 --> 01:06:25,147 usually have a diagnosis later in life 1039 01:06:25,231 --> 01:06:28,609 of what's called Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. 1040 01:06:30,027 --> 01:06:31,862 You're going to lose touch with reality. 1041 01:06:31,946 --> 01:06:34,865 That's what you're disassociating from. 1042 01:06:35,616 --> 01:06:38,953 One of the symptoms is reenacting the trauma. 1043 01:06:39,036 --> 01:06:43,541 With trauma reenactment, you can go from being the victim as a child 1044 01:06:43,624 --> 01:06:46,335 to being the perpetrator as an adult. 1045 01:06:47,795 --> 01:06:50,006 Who had the power when she was growing up? 1046 01:06:50,089 --> 01:06:52,800 In her world, men had the power. 1047 01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:56,887 And so when she became a therapist, that script flipped, 1048 01:06:56,971 --> 01:07:01,225 and now she felt like she had the power and control. 1049 01:07:06,897 --> 01:07:08,649 Thanks for your time. 1050 01:07:08,733 --> 01:07:12,069 I want to cooperate, though, 1051 01:07:12,153 --> 01:07:15,573 on anything related to Jodi. 1052 01:07:16,073 --> 01:07:20,953 So a few weeks after the arrest, I met Kevin Franke for a second interview. 1053 01:07:21,537 --> 01:07:24,749 We just are more curious of the dynamic, 1054 01:07:24,832 --> 01:07:28,544 and Jodi coming into your relationship, your lives. 1055 01:07:29,378 --> 01:07:33,632 Ruby started to speak with Jodi towards the end of 2018 1056 01:07:33,716 --> 01:07:39,764 with the intention of having her work with Chad. 1057 01:07:39,847 --> 01:07:43,267 Chad is the second oldest of Ruby and Kevin's kids. 1058 01:07:43,350 --> 01:07:48,522 He was going through this rebellious teenager phase. 1059 01:07:49,482 --> 01:07:52,943 And that was documented on their 8 Passengers YouTube channel. 1060 01:07:53,027 --> 01:07:55,029 Chad, what are you doing over there? 1061 01:07:55,112 --> 01:07:57,865 -Nothing. -No texting at the dinner table. 1062 01:07:57,948 --> 01:07:58,949 Okay. 1063 01:07:59,033 --> 01:08:01,660 -So this morning, thank you… -We don't have time to vlog. 1064 01:08:01,744 --> 01:08:05,247 "We don't have time to vlog." We always have time to vlog! 1065 01:08:05,331 --> 01:08:09,835 It didn't take long for me to see tons of content online 1066 01:08:09,919 --> 01:08:12,880 featuring Jodi and Ruby together. 1067 01:08:12,963 --> 01:08:14,715 And it was really clear to me that 1068 01:08:14,799 --> 01:08:18,886 Ruby was very entrenched in what Jodi was teaching. 1069 01:08:18,969 --> 01:08:21,430 Ruby will attest I was quite blunt with her. 1070 01:08:21,514 --> 01:08:24,725 The first day Jodi said, "You need to hold boundaries with your kids." 1071 01:08:24,809 --> 01:08:25,976 And it was uncomfortable. 1072 01:08:26,060 --> 01:08:29,021 I took their own social medias away. I took the phones away. 1073 01:08:29,105 --> 01:08:33,818 She saw the wisdom in learning principles of being honest, responsible, and humble. 1074 01:08:33,901 --> 01:08:40,116 And her children's lives and her life shifted abruptly. 1075 01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:45,121 Ruby and Kevin saw Jodi in a trusted position like a family member. 1076 01:08:45,204 --> 01:08:47,832 They looked up to her for guidance, wisdom. 1077 01:08:47,915 --> 01:08:49,708 Their 8 Passengers YouTube channel 1078 01:08:49,792 --> 01:08:52,628 shows how integrated into the family Jodi was at the time. 1079 01:08:52,711 --> 01:08:58,259 So I had a phone call yesterday with my therapist, 1080 01:08:58,342 --> 01:09:01,637 and she taught me about truth and distortion. 1081 01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,056 Mom probably talks about Jodi all the time, but… 1082 01:09:06,267 --> 01:09:09,937 Jodi saw a platform that she liked, 1083 01:09:10,020 --> 01:09:12,690 and that was Ruby and Kevin's 8 Passenger channel. 1084 01:09:13,315 --> 01:09:16,944 And when they asked her for help as a therapist, 1085 01:09:17,027 --> 01:09:21,782 I think she maybe felt she could inherit some of that success. 1086 01:09:23,409 --> 01:09:27,204 Ruby was making her living off of marketing her kids. 1087 01:09:27,288 --> 01:09:30,749 And now she's following Jodi's advice, 1088 01:09:30,833 --> 01:09:35,421 and they kind of team up professionally to market ConneXions. 1089 01:09:35,504 --> 01:09:37,965 And that's where the Empowering Joy class comes in. 1090 01:09:38,048 --> 01:09:39,800 Because of Empowering Joy, 1091 01:09:39,884 --> 01:09:43,429 my entire family now has a common vocabulary. 1092 01:09:43,512 --> 01:09:45,389 We can communicate. 1093 01:09:45,472 --> 01:09:47,600 I supported it, 1094 01:09:47,683 --> 01:09:52,688 and so together, we held boundaries for our son Chad. 1095 01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:57,818 I saw a few videos Ruby had posted 1096 01:09:57,902 --> 01:10:01,322 about taking her boy's bedroom away. 1097 01:10:01,405 --> 01:10:04,074 I've been sleeping on a bean bag since October. 1098 01:10:04,158 --> 01:10:06,368 And they gave my room back, like, two weeks ago. 1099 01:10:06,452 --> 01:10:08,829 I don't think our viewers know that. 1100 01:10:09,663 --> 01:10:10,789 After that video, 1101 01:10:10,873 --> 01:10:15,294 I just saw that people on the internet thought this was beyond strict parenting. 1102 01:10:16,420 --> 01:10:18,631 8 Passengers is finally getting exposed. 1103 01:10:18,714 --> 01:10:22,760 For years I've been saying that they are abusive. 1104 01:10:22,843 --> 01:10:24,428 I'm going to take the scissors… 1105 01:10:24,511 --> 01:10:26,972 Look at me. And I'm going to cut its head off. 1106 01:10:28,474 --> 01:10:30,768 This woman was just horrible to her children. 1107 01:10:30,851 --> 01:10:36,982 We told them that this year they are not going to be visited by Santa. 1108 01:10:42,196 --> 01:10:43,948 People on the internet just… 1109 01:10:44,031 --> 01:10:46,200 They shut them down. 1110 01:10:46,700 --> 01:10:48,577 They had been canceled. 1111 01:10:48,661 --> 01:10:51,413 I think Ruby was "fringy." 1112 01:10:51,497 --> 01:10:53,165 Kind of on the edge there 1113 01:10:53,249 --> 01:10:56,377 of what's good parenting and what's bad parenting. 1114 01:10:58,587 --> 01:11:03,217 We don't have any evidence on the 8 Passengers YouTube channel 1115 01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:07,137 of Ruby criminally abusing her kids. 1116 01:11:08,847 --> 01:11:11,100 And then Jodi gets involved. 1117 01:11:11,725 --> 01:11:17,564 And the step to go from fringy parenting to child torture 1118 01:11:17,648 --> 01:11:19,149 is a huge step. 1119 01:11:23,737 --> 01:11:25,823 Towards the beginning of 2021, 1120 01:11:25,906 --> 01:11:28,951 the COVID lockdown was very much a real thing. 1121 01:11:29,034 --> 01:11:31,912 It was clear to me, at least, that Jodi's content was becoming 1122 01:11:31,996 --> 01:11:35,332 more aggressive and serious. 1123 01:11:35,416 --> 01:11:39,837 And honestly, her presence online, I felt like, was becoming more fanatical. 1124 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,172 God has a work for all of you to do. 1125 01:11:42,256 --> 01:11:45,509 And it's time to provide, preside, 1126 01:11:45,592 --> 01:11:50,264 and protect truth, your families, your children. 1127 01:11:50,889 --> 01:11:53,934 Jodi is a massive doomsday prepper. 1128 01:11:54,018 --> 01:11:59,523 She would say to me, "Ethan, I strongly believe that I am helping to prepare you 1129 01:12:00,190 --> 01:12:02,234 for the second coming of Jesus Christ." 1130 01:12:02,985 --> 01:12:06,113 And I definitely saw evidence of Jodi 1131 01:12:06,196 --> 01:12:09,408 feeling that timetable was being accelerated. 1132 01:12:12,828 --> 01:12:14,455 March of 2021, 1133 01:12:14,538 --> 01:12:17,666 Jodi really opened up to Ruby 1134 01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:22,212 that she believed she was being tormented and haunted 1135 01:12:22,296 --> 01:12:25,883 by shadow figures every night. 1136 01:12:27,426 --> 01:12:31,180 Ruby was convinced that we could intervene and help Jodi. 1137 01:12:31,263 --> 01:12:35,351 And I was like, "Oh, hell no. I don't want this in my house." 1138 01:12:35,434 --> 01:12:37,603 But I relented. 1139 01:12:38,103 --> 01:12:40,564 There are many things Jodi Hildebrandt was doing 1140 01:12:40,647 --> 01:12:41,565 that are unethical. 1141 01:12:41,648 --> 01:12:45,319 She was the children's therapist, she was the parents' therapist, 1142 01:12:45,402 --> 01:12:49,615 and now in her moment of need, which sounds like a mental health crisis, 1143 01:12:49,698 --> 01:12:52,701 she's moving in with her clients. 1144 01:12:53,744 --> 01:12:56,497 Jodi would go into possession mode. 1145 01:12:56,580 --> 01:12:59,750 She would talk in, like, different voices. 1146 01:13:00,292 --> 01:13:03,170 Jodi would wake up in the middle of the night. 1147 01:13:03,253 --> 01:13:07,549 She'd be having these… what they believed were prophecies at the time. 1148 01:13:09,426 --> 01:13:11,553 And at that point Ruby decides, 1149 01:13:11,637 --> 01:13:16,809 "I'll stay in the room with Jodi, and I'll handle these night terrors." 1150 01:13:16,892 --> 01:13:21,105 And that was that. They started sleeping in the same bed. 1151 01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:26,568 Basically there were all these rules now placed on me. 1152 01:13:26,652 --> 01:13:30,280 I couldn't come into the kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission. 1153 01:13:30,364 --> 01:13:35,285 And the upstairs where Jodi roamed was completely off-limits. 1154 01:13:36,537 --> 01:13:40,165 They'd just go up and lock themselves in a room for four or five hours, 1155 01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:45,087 and then they'd come out, and they'd just be on cloud nine. 1156 01:13:45,170 --> 01:13:47,756 And then Ruby would share with me, 1157 01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,635 like, "She had this amazing vision, 1158 01:13:51,718 --> 01:13:53,971 and I wrote it all down." 1159 01:13:54,596 --> 01:13:56,849 And that's when she asked me to leave. 1160 01:14:00,352 --> 01:14:05,441 I was always very intrigued by Jodi's relationship with Ruby, 1161 01:14:05,524 --> 01:14:07,985 how she talked about her, how she looked at her. 1162 01:14:08,068 --> 01:14:10,446 Jodi and Ruby posted a promo video 1163 01:14:10,529 --> 01:14:13,615 that I think shows just how close they were. 1164 01:14:13,699 --> 01:14:16,410 Come spend two days with us in southern Utah 1165 01:14:16,493 --> 01:14:19,371 hiking, jet skiing, engaging in training sessions, 1166 01:14:19,455 --> 01:14:20,873 and one-on-one coaching. 1167 01:14:21,582 --> 01:14:24,710 There's been some talk that she might be lesbian, 1168 01:14:24,793 --> 01:14:26,670 but then some of the comments she'd made 1169 01:14:26,753 --> 01:14:32,092 is that if you were LGBTQ, that that was an addiction 1170 01:14:32,176 --> 01:14:34,011 that could be recovered from, 1171 01:14:34,094 --> 01:14:35,679 but that was a shameful thing. 1172 01:14:35,762 --> 01:14:38,974 Like, you have so much shame and that's why you're going to it. 1173 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,644 When you're part of a high-demand religion, 1174 01:14:42,728 --> 01:14:44,354 if you are LGBT, 1175 01:14:44,438 --> 01:14:48,901 often it feels like there isn't a healthy space for you to even exist. 1176 01:14:48,984 --> 01:14:51,612 You can't even entertain the thought of being LGBT. 1177 01:14:51,695 --> 01:14:56,992 And so I think what happens sometimes with believing members 1178 01:14:57,075 --> 01:15:00,454 is they go inward, and they can self-loathe, 1179 01:15:00,537 --> 01:15:04,333 and then that can dangerously turn into extremism. 1180 01:15:05,167 --> 01:15:09,880 I listened to some of her videos, and they were pretty anti-LGBT. 1181 01:15:09,963 --> 01:15:14,051 And people will say, "Well, homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia!" 1182 01:15:14,134 --> 01:15:16,053 Okay, it may not be the same thing, 1183 01:15:16,136 --> 01:15:19,890 but what is the same thing is sexual deviancy. 1184 01:15:20,474 --> 01:15:24,269 I know she has strong stances around the LGBTQ community. 1185 01:15:24,353 --> 01:15:29,358 I have seen a clip where it felt like Jodi was being defensive about it. 1186 01:15:29,441 --> 01:15:33,278 I am a daughter of God. That's who I am. 1187 01:15:33,362 --> 01:15:34,947 I am not gay… 1188 01:15:35,572 --> 01:15:37,324 because I am divine. 1189 01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,119 I thought maybe Jodi had feelings she was trying to suppress. 1190 01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:48,544 Once Jodi was able to isolate Ruby from Kevin, 1191 01:15:48,627 --> 01:15:55,634 she was really just able to brainwash her into thinking she was a living prophet. 1192 01:15:56,218 --> 01:16:01,807 So you can see how Jodi Hildebrandt justified the next step. 1193 01:16:01,890 --> 01:16:05,102 "I'm right on how I have done sexuality, 1194 01:16:05,185 --> 01:16:07,688 I am right in having separated families, 1195 01:16:07,771 --> 01:16:13,068 and I am right in making sure your children stay on the right path, 1196 01:16:13,151 --> 01:16:16,863 making sure your children aren't being given into by evil influences." 1197 01:16:19,324 --> 01:16:25,122 Ruby and Jodi were completely determined to do this work 1198 01:16:25,205 --> 01:16:27,416 that they felt God had for them. 1199 01:16:35,549 --> 01:16:37,676 We know that over the course of the summer, 1200 01:16:37,759 --> 01:16:41,597 Ruby and Jodi were living down here in Jodi's house, 1201 01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:45,767 and the children are being systematically abused 1202 01:16:45,851 --> 01:16:48,478 and then tortured in the home. 1203 01:16:49,021 --> 01:16:50,314 And at the same time, 1204 01:16:50,397 --> 01:16:54,985 Jodi and Ruby are continuing filming in the house. 1205 01:16:56,653 --> 01:16:58,864 You wonder where I've been on my vlogs? 1206 01:16:58,947 --> 01:17:00,824 You wonder why I left YouTube? 1207 01:17:00,907 --> 01:17:03,076 It's to save my kids. 1208 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,580 The 8 Passengers channel changed to Moms of Truth. 1209 01:17:07,164 --> 01:17:11,209 Hello and welcome to Moms of Truth with Jodi and Ruby. 1210 01:17:11,293 --> 01:17:15,589 Moms of Truth is pretty much parenting advice. 1211 01:17:15,672 --> 01:17:16,840 In this home, 1212 01:17:16,923 --> 01:17:20,344 you don't get personal space because this is my space. 1213 01:17:20,427 --> 01:17:21,970 Because I'm the parent. 1214 01:17:22,054 --> 01:17:23,639 Harsh parenting advice. 1215 01:17:23,722 --> 01:17:26,391 You're scared to hold your child accountable. 1216 01:17:26,475 --> 01:17:29,519 Instead of chasing your kids all over the place, 1217 01:17:29,603 --> 01:17:33,190 you need to learn what's called Principles of Truth. 1218 01:17:33,273 --> 01:17:36,068 You're being canceled in your own home. 1219 01:17:37,611 --> 01:17:43,241 I witnessed the entire dynamic of Jodi's public-facing content shift. 1220 01:17:43,825 --> 01:17:44,826 She was using Ruby. 1221 01:17:45,577 --> 01:17:48,538 I… I love children. 1222 01:17:48,622 --> 01:17:51,625 I love children. I love your children. 1223 01:17:51,708 --> 01:17:56,546 And I have a very sacred charge to help you protect them. 1224 01:17:57,089 --> 01:18:00,175 And Ruby, that's what she's doing. She's allowed me to be in her life 1225 01:18:00,258 --> 01:18:04,012 so I can help raise and teach and guide her children. 1226 01:18:04,930 --> 01:18:06,973 That's what we want to share with you, how to… 1227 01:18:07,057 --> 01:18:09,851 What Jodi got in Ruby 1228 01:18:09,935 --> 01:18:14,690 was someone who was willing to be taken by the nose 1229 01:18:14,773 --> 01:18:17,901 and do everything Jodi said. 1230 01:18:17,984 --> 01:18:23,115 And I wonder if part of the reason that this got as awful as it got 1231 01:18:23,198 --> 01:18:26,076 is because Jodi just was seeing how far she could push Ruby 1232 01:18:26,159 --> 01:18:27,994 before Ruby would ever push back. 1233 01:18:28,078 --> 01:18:30,872 And there's no evidence that Ruby ever pushed back. 1234 01:18:30,956 --> 01:18:33,083 As long as Jodi said, 1235 01:18:33,166 --> 01:18:36,336 "I talked to God this morning, and this is what we're supposed to do," 1236 01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:37,921 then Ruby just did it. 1237 01:18:41,591 --> 01:18:43,635 When you look at the definition of a cult, 1238 01:18:43,719 --> 01:18:46,680 and I can speak from my experience and basically nothing else but, 1239 01:18:46,763 --> 01:18:49,516 she was the unified leader. There was zero defiance. 1240 01:18:51,226 --> 01:18:55,272 There was a lot of brainwashing. There was a lot of isolation. 1241 01:18:55,355 --> 01:18:58,066 My gut was telling me, "Something's off." 1242 01:18:58,150 --> 01:18:59,443 "This doesn't feel right." 1243 01:18:59,526 --> 01:19:02,821 "The things she's asking me to do are not kind." 1244 01:19:05,282 --> 01:19:11,621 It's really hard to look back and see areas where I follow Jodi, 1245 01:19:11,705 --> 01:19:14,332 despite what my gut was telling me. 1246 01:19:15,917 --> 01:19:19,296 I was separated for the first five-ish months, 1247 01:19:19,379 --> 01:19:21,798 and then I continued to see Jodi throughout that year. 1248 01:19:21,882 --> 01:19:23,717 It felt like things were changing. 1249 01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,219 Her language actually got looser over time. 1250 01:19:26,303 --> 01:19:29,890 It's almost as if, like, she was, like, losing a filter. 1251 01:19:29,973 --> 01:19:33,518 "Ethan, like, you don't even know what it's like to hear the voice of God." 1252 01:19:33,602 --> 01:19:35,395 "You've never heard it in your life." 1253 01:19:37,355 --> 01:19:40,442 To watch somebody completely unravel, I just think 1254 01:19:41,401 --> 01:19:44,446 the castle was going to crumble at some point. 1255 01:19:45,822 --> 01:19:50,368 That was the most stark and clear guidance to leave the program. 1256 01:19:52,662 --> 01:19:55,165 Shortly after, my wife and I split ways. 1257 01:19:55,248 --> 01:19:57,667 I believe 100% it's because of Jodi. 1258 01:20:01,838 --> 01:20:06,968 I feel like Jodi was able to really get into, honestly, 1259 01:20:07,052 --> 01:20:09,387 my psyche, my decision-making, 1260 01:20:09,471 --> 01:20:13,850 because I was so desperate for help. 1261 01:20:13,934 --> 01:20:18,188 I needed to have some sort of hope for my marriage. 1262 01:20:18,271 --> 01:20:22,609 But eventually we saw enough red flags that we decided to leave. 1263 01:20:24,611 --> 01:20:28,657 Jodi definitely had a huge hand in ruining my marriage. 1264 01:20:28,740 --> 01:20:30,867 Within a year, we were divorced. 1265 01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:35,580 We're all going to have to… 1266 01:20:36,832 --> 01:20:38,667 as a culture, figure out, 1267 01:20:38,750 --> 01:20:44,214 how do we parse out intentional falsehoods, misrepresentations, 1268 01:20:44,297 --> 01:20:47,467 and truth and fact, and how do we 1269 01:20:48,009 --> 01:20:49,094 live in this world? 1270 01:20:57,853 --> 01:21:00,480 We still had so much left to uncover. 1271 01:21:00,564 --> 01:21:04,776 But the biggest thing we wanted was to interview the children. 1272 01:21:05,485 --> 01:21:10,824 The young boy gave an amazing interview, very detailed and descriptive. 1273 01:21:11,616 --> 01:21:15,954 We're getting a better picture as to what's happened to these kids. 1274 01:21:16,037 --> 01:21:20,709 It starts out with what I would call extremely poor parenting, 1275 01:21:20,792 --> 01:21:22,460 but probably not criminal acts. 1276 01:21:23,336 --> 01:21:27,340 Physical tasks, carrying boxes up and down stairs as a punishment. 1277 01:21:28,049 --> 01:21:30,427 But then it progresses. 1278 01:21:32,804 --> 01:21:39,019 The young boy described very extreme corporal punishment 1279 01:21:39,102 --> 01:21:41,563 for very minor things. 1280 01:21:43,189 --> 01:21:47,068 We need to go back to the house because there is so much more, 1281 01:21:47,152 --> 01:21:50,447 and now I'm going to be looking at it from a different perspective, 1282 01:21:50,530 --> 01:21:53,617 trying to corroborate his story. 1283 01:21:55,493 --> 01:21:58,455 We got a call from the detectives at the house, 1284 01:21:58,538 --> 01:22:00,665 and they said, "Holy cow." 1285 01:22:00,749 --> 01:22:02,667 That's when we got the journals. 1286 01:22:04,419 --> 01:22:07,130 The LDS faith is very big in journaling. 1287 01:22:07,213 --> 01:22:09,925 They're told to document everything. 1288 01:22:10,008 --> 01:22:15,263 There were several journals located, and Ruby's was really… 1289 01:22:17,682 --> 01:22:18,975 unlike anything I've seen. 1290 01:22:19,768 --> 01:22:24,147 We found written documentation of everything that was happening. 1291 01:22:24,230 --> 01:22:27,275 Everything they had done to the children and why. 1292 01:22:28,777 --> 01:22:32,822 "The young boy and girl have been in so much deviant behavior." 1293 01:22:32,906 --> 01:22:36,993 "Their selfish, sinful lifestyle is being intervened upon." 1294 01:22:39,746 --> 01:22:43,333 "Day two of young boy jumping on a mini trampoline." 1295 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:48,838 He would have to jump on the trampoline for hours at a time 1296 01:22:48,922 --> 01:22:50,382 in the dead heat of the summer, 1297 01:22:50,465 --> 01:22:53,343 and if he would take a break, 1298 01:22:53,426 --> 01:22:56,721 he was now deceitful. He was trying to cheat. 1299 01:22:57,931 --> 01:22:59,265 "He is defiant." 1300 01:23:00,225 --> 01:23:04,980 "The young boy, or I should say his demon, stays in the shade." 1301 01:23:05,939 --> 01:23:08,274 "I come back with a cactus poker." 1302 01:23:08,358 --> 01:23:11,945 "When I poke his back to get in the sun, he doesn't even flinch." 1303 01:23:12,862 --> 01:23:15,365 "He is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything." 1304 01:23:17,867 --> 01:23:20,662 We found the exercise trampoline… 1305 01:23:22,455 --> 01:23:26,751 along with the actual physical indentations, 1306 01:23:26,835 --> 01:23:29,087 marks that it had made on the concrete. 1307 01:23:30,046 --> 01:23:34,217 You know, I'm seeing the calcium buildup on the trampoline, 1308 01:23:34,300 --> 01:23:36,344 and that's because he was sweating. 1309 01:23:36,428 --> 01:23:38,763 That's not just a leisurely activity at this point. 1310 01:23:38,847 --> 01:23:41,391 He was being tortured on that small trampoline. 1311 01:23:46,146 --> 01:23:50,734 Ruby's journal corroborated the young boy's story. 1312 01:23:53,403 --> 01:23:58,658 Line by line, everything he had described, she had written down in her journal. 1313 01:24:00,368 --> 01:24:05,040 The journal documents that Ruby is doing what she's doing out of love 1314 01:24:05,123 --> 01:24:07,292 to drive evil spirits away. 1315 01:24:08,209 --> 01:24:10,295 And I believe that all of that comes from Jodi. 1316 01:24:12,756 --> 01:24:15,759 "The spirit told Jodi very clearly, 1317 01:24:15,842 --> 01:24:19,054 'Don't let these kids' choices ruin your life.'" 1318 01:24:25,310 --> 01:24:29,439 In Ruby's journal, she talks about how the boy had escaped once before 1319 01:24:29,522 --> 01:24:31,107 in the middle of the night. 1320 01:24:31,191 --> 01:24:34,527 "Oh God! Oh Father! We need a miracle." 1321 01:24:34,611 --> 01:24:37,447 "Show us where the boy is." 1322 01:24:37,530 --> 01:24:39,199 "I've done everything you've asked." 1323 01:24:39,282 --> 01:24:43,578 "Protect me. Protect Jodi. Protect us. Protect us." 1324 01:24:43,661 --> 01:24:45,955 But he didn't go and knock on any doors. 1325 01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:50,460 He just tried to make it to the main part of Ivins where he could see the lights. 1326 01:24:51,753 --> 01:24:54,172 "I speed up to cover as much road as I can, 1327 01:24:54,255 --> 01:24:57,258 racing the sun, racing the devil." 1328 01:24:57,342 --> 01:25:00,637 "Then I see the young boy walking on the side of the road." 1329 01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:02,764 The worst abuse happens 1330 01:25:02,847 --> 01:25:06,226 after the boy tries to run away and is caught. 1331 01:25:07,685 --> 01:25:09,646 They start tying him up. 1332 01:25:09,729 --> 01:25:12,565 They try different ways, they tie him to Ruby, 1333 01:25:12,649 --> 01:25:14,567 they tie him to weights, 1334 01:25:14,651 --> 01:25:17,195 but they eventually land on the, 1335 01:25:17,278 --> 01:25:20,323 in their mind, most efficient way of binding him, 1336 01:25:20,406 --> 01:25:23,660 is to handcuff his wrists together, handcuff his ankles together, 1337 01:25:23,743 --> 01:25:25,662 lay him on his stomach, 1338 01:25:25,745 --> 01:25:29,165 and then tie those two sets of handcuffs together. 1339 01:25:29,249 --> 01:25:30,333 He's hog-tied. 1340 01:25:30,416 --> 01:25:34,546 And that's where his really, really bad injuries happen, 1341 01:25:34,629 --> 01:25:38,633 because he's left in that position for hours at a time. 1342 01:25:40,510 --> 01:25:44,389 It's difficult to imagine the level of depravity that it would take 1343 01:25:44,472 --> 01:25:46,975 for adults to do that to children. 1344 01:25:58,862 --> 01:25:59,946 Yes? 1345 01:26:00,446 --> 01:26:01,823 Hi, I was just 1346 01:26:02,907 --> 01:26:05,493 wondering if you could do two favors? 1347 01:26:07,662 --> 01:26:09,330 Well, what are they? 1348 01:26:09,414 --> 01:26:12,876 Taking me to the nearest police station. 1349 01:26:12,959 --> 01:26:15,503 Well actually, just one's fine. 1350 01:26:16,045 --> 01:26:19,549 He was always told by Jodi and Ruby that 1351 01:26:19,632 --> 01:26:21,676 for things he had done, he'd be going to jail. 1352 01:26:22,844 --> 01:26:25,305 "Today he rages for hours." 1353 01:26:25,388 --> 01:26:29,350 "'I'm never going to change! Take me to jail where I belong.'" 1354 01:26:30,852 --> 01:26:32,645 He's hungry and… 1355 01:26:32,729 --> 01:26:34,230 He says he… 1356 01:26:35,398 --> 01:26:37,609 What's happened to him is his fault. 1357 01:26:38,401 --> 01:26:40,153 It's that level of manipulation 1358 01:26:40,236 --> 01:26:45,658 where these children believed they were deserving of the punishment 1359 01:26:45,742 --> 01:26:51,998 and not deserving of unwavering love like a parent should have for their child. 1360 01:26:54,292 --> 01:26:56,461 Is Jodi up there right now? 1361 01:26:56,544 --> 01:26:58,546 -Yes. -Okay. 1362 01:26:58,630 --> 01:27:01,925 Jodi Hildebrandt is up there right now. 1363 01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:03,718 Okay. 1364 01:27:04,886 --> 01:27:08,473 So, she may come looking for him here soon, but… 1365 01:27:08,556 --> 01:27:10,934 All right, we need the cops here as soon as possible. 1366 01:27:11,517 --> 01:27:12,769 She's a… 1367 01:27:13,269 --> 01:27:14,646 She's a bad lady. 1368 01:27:18,858 --> 01:27:20,902 Our initial responding officer, 1369 01:27:20,985 --> 01:27:25,490 on his way there, he observed a vehicle traveling down the road. 1370 01:27:26,449 --> 01:27:30,703 He was pretty aware that was probably Jodi Hildebrandt at that point, 1371 01:27:30,787 --> 01:27:33,164 looking for the young boy. 1372 01:27:33,248 --> 01:27:38,962 So when Jodi stopped him and asked if he had seen a boy, 1373 01:27:39,045 --> 01:27:41,714 he thought on his feet pretty fast and he was like, 1374 01:27:41,798 --> 01:27:45,218 "No, I haven't, but if I do, I'll let you know." 1375 01:27:45,301 --> 01:27:48,137 She said she lives over here. I said, "All right, well, 1376 01:27:48,221 --> 01:27:50,473 I'm just on the phone with my sergeant right now." 1377 01:27:53,393 --> 01:27:56,145 I believe that Jodi went back to the residence 1378 01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:58,564 after she saw the officers. 1379 01:27:58,648 --> 01:28:02,652 She took the rope and the handcuffs, which the boy had removed from himself, 1380 01:28:02,735 --> 01:28:04,737 downstairs into the safe room, 1381 01:28:04,821 --> 01:28:08,157 put them in the bottom drawer, and closed the safe room. 1382 01:28:09,450 --> 01:28:12,870 The safe room that she then told us she didn't have the password to. 1383 01:28:12,954 --> 01:28:15,373 That thing has been locked for a couple of years… 1384 01:28:15,456 --> 01:28:17,458 I think that she did that because she knew 1385 01:28:17,542 --> 01:28:21,379 that was clear evidence of her involvement. 1386 01:28:34,392 --> 01:28:35,852 This is a witch hunt. 1387 01:28:36,728 --> 01:28:39,314 The devil's been after me for years. 1388 01:28:41,357 --> 01:28:44,235 -You know my heart. -What are they charging you with? 1389 01:28:44,319 --> 01:28:47,030 Second-degree felony for child abuse. 1390 01:28:48,364 --> 01:28:51,492 Wow, that's very serious. 1391 01:28:53,661 --> 01:28:55,997 Adults have a really hard time understanding 1392 01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,834 that children can be full of evil and what that takes to fight it. 1393 01:29:00,793 --> 01:29:04,589 And so I don't know any adults who are willing to see the truth. 1394 01:29:05,256 --> 01:29:08,343 You have one minute remaining for this call. 1395 01:29:08,426 --> 01:29:09,761 The children, 1396 01:29:09,844 --> 01:29:12,472 they're going to be in the hospital for three days. 1397 01:29:13,681 --> 01:29:15,266 So weird. 1398 01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:17,018 It's just not necessary. 1399 01:29:18,394 --> 01:29:20,980 They're trying to exaggerate this. 1400 01:29:21,981 --> 01:29:26,319 You have exceeded the allowable time for this call. Goodbye. 1401 01:29:28,404 --> 01:29:32,075 When they were at the jail, initially Ruby still thought 1402 01:29:32,158 --> 01:29:34,535 that Jodi was the chosen one 1403 01:29:34,619 --> 01:29:37,080 that was delivering the word of God to her. 1404 01:29:38,956 --> 01:29:42,335 Poor Jodi. They misinterpret her and they misunderstand her. 1405 01:29:42,418 --> 01:29:45,797 She puts her neck out on the line for people, and then they get mad at her. 1406 01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:47,757 I mean, it is just horrendous. 1407 01:29:48,466 --> 01:29:49,759 It's horrendous. 1408 01:29:50,635 --> 01:29:53,554 And you know what? Every Joseph Smith, 1409 01:29:53,638 --> 01:29:59,477 every wonderful man of God has had to be misunderstood. 1410 01:30:01,020 --> 01:30:03,398 Nobody wants the truth. 1411 01:30:03,481 --> 01:30:05,817 Because these kids… 1412 01:30:06,401 --> 01:30:08,945 I woke up. The Spirit told me it's all the devil. 1413 01:30:09,028 --> 01:30:10,029 You've seen him. 1414 01:30:10,113 --> 01:30:13,908 You've watched him come at me, come at me, come at me, come at me. 1415 01:30:16,744 --> 01:30:19,122 "The young boy says he worships the devil." 1416 01:30:20,206 --> 01:30:23,876 "We decided the escalation of the kids is not manageable here." 1417 01:30:24,419 --> 01:30:27,880 The journal talks about how Jodi is getting her house ready to sell. 1418 01:30:27,964 --> 01:30:32,343 "Those kids have no idea the sacrifices being made for them." 1419 01:30:32,427 --> 01:30:36,556 We did locate paperwork that indicated Jodi had purchased 1420 01:30:36,639 --> 01:30:40,059 several acres in Arizona in the middle of the desert. 1421 01:30:40,143 --> 01:30:43,938 She had purchased two tractors so that the kids could work. 1422 01:30:44,981 --> 01:30:47,024 "The girl I will bring into the cool house, 1423 01:30:47,108 --> 01:30:49,569 and she can sit in the pantry." 1424 01:30:49,652 --> 01:30:51,320 "They will think they won." 1425 01:30:51,404 --> 01:30:54,198 "They will think they got what they wanted. They will relax." 1426 01:30:55,074 --> 01:30:59,078 "Then, pop! We will drop them like hot potatoes in the desert." 1427 01:31:01,330 --> 01:31:04,876 It's the worst kind of torture when you take someone 1428 01:31:04,959 --> 01:31:08,254 and you slowly deprive them of what they need. 1429 01:31:10,256 --> 01:31:15,845 But Ruby and Jodi were so desensitized at the time that they were arrested 1430 01:31:15,928 --> 01:31:18,681 that I don't think there would've been anything to stop them. 1431 01:31:21,934 --> 01:31:24,812 When was the last time you talked to her? 1432 01:31:24,896 --> 01:31:26,606 Was it that day? 1433 01:31:26,689 --> 01:31:29,734 Mm-hm. It was when we were arrested. 1434 01:31:29,817 --> 01:31:32,987 They put us in separate cells. We've been separate ever since. 1435 01:31:33,488 --> 01:31:35,490 That's when things kind of started turning. 1436 01:31:35,573 --> 01:31:37,825 I was like, "She's not been honest." 1437 01:31:41,787 --> 01:31:45,291 A few months later, it seemed that 1438 01:31:45,374 --> 01:31:50,379 Ruby was maybe a little out of the haze on what had happened. 1439 01:31:51,047 --> 01:31:56,302 Believe that God has a hand in the old Ruby being set free, 1440 01:31:56,385 --> 01:31:58,012 or whatever you want to call it. 1441 01:31:58,095 --> 01:32:00,306 Yeah, absolutely. 1442 01:32:02,433 --> 01:32:05,353 This has been the strangest 1443 01:32:05,937 --> 01:32:08,648 and the most miraculous intervention. 1444 01:32:08,731 --> 01:32:11,984 It separated me from Jodi, 1445 01:32:12,068 --> 01:32:14,362 so I'm not hearing her. 1446 01:32:14,445 --> 01:32:16,989 And I think just being gone and not hearing her 1447 01:32:17,073 --> 01:32:19,450 has cleared a lot of things up for me. 1448 01:32:22,954 --> 01:32:24,455 I know this sounds crazy, 1449 01:32:24,539 --> 01:32:27,750 and I still can't put my finger on why it feels this way, 1450 01:32:27,833 --> 01:32:32,255 but it feels like I was being set up to end up here. 1451 01:32:32,964 --> 01:32:35,132 I know that sounds bizarro. 1452 01:32:36,050 --> 01:32:39,011 I mean, I shouldn't be here. I haven't done anything wrong. 1453 01:32:40,054 --> 01:32:44,058 It was clear that Jodi wasn't willing to accept responsibility. 1454 01:32:44,141 --> 01:32:45,935 She would say things like, 1455 01:32:46,018 --> 01:32:49,188 "We didn't abuse those kids. They did this to themselves." 1456 01:32:50,106 --> 01:32:51,524 We didn't do that. 1457 01:32:51,607 --> 01:32:54,860 Those pictures, we did not do. He did that to himself. 1458 01:32:55,444 --> 01:32:56,571 Did we put that on him? 1459 01:32:56,654 --> 01:32:59,532 And then he rubbed around and cut himself? Yes. 1460 01:32:59,615 --> 01:33:01,492 But we didn't do that. 1461 01:33:03,286 --> 01:33:05,663 Jodi denies everything. 1462 01:33:05,746 --> 01:33:09,041 She denies having anything to do with this, and I was shocked. 1463 01:33:09,709 --> 01:33:11,794 I think putting the pieces together and seeing… 1464 01:33:11,877 --> 01:33:13,087 And it's embarrassing too… 1465 01:33:13,170 --> 01:33:15,214 And it's like, oh my gosh, how gullible was I? 1466 01:33:15,298 --> 01:33:17,049 Oh my gosh, how… 1467 01:33:17,550 --> 01:33:20,136 How much power I gave this person, 1468 01:33:20,219 --> 01:33:22,597 and I didn't see it. 1469 01:33:24,599 --> 01:33:27,143 Being confused doesn't ever justify criminal acts. 1470 01:33:27,226 --> 01:33:29,020 I don't want to minimize. 1471 01:33:29,103 --> 01:33:30,605 Ruby committed crimes, 1472 01:33:30,688 --> 01:33:34,525 and Jodi manipulated Ruby and told her to commit all those crimes. 1473 01:33:34,609 --> 01:33:35,943 Both of those get to be true. 1474 01:33:42,575 --> 01:33:47,121 Trials in child abuse cases are hard on children victims, 1475 01:33:47,204 --> 01:33:49,248 and we all take steps to protect them. 1476 01:33:50,916 --> 01:33:53,252 We ended up offering a plea offer 1477 01:33:53,336 --> 01:33:55,921 that they would plead to four of the six counts, 1478 01:33:56,005 --> 01:34:00,176 and they would agree that each count would carry prison time. 1479 01:34:02,219 --> 01:34:04,221 Both of them pled guilty. 1480 01:34:05,431 --> 01:34:08,142 Two defendants charged with the exact same crimes, 1481 01:34:08,225 --> 01:34:10,019 but who was more at fault? 1482 01:34:10,102 --> 01:34:13,105 Ruby Franke's attorney issued a statement before her guilty plea, 1483 01:34:13,189 --> 01:34:16,400 saying Jodi Hildebrandt isolated her away from her family 1484 01:34:16,484 --> 01:34:18,194 and distorted her sense of morality. 1485 01:34:19,987 --> 01:34:20,988 All rise. 1486 01:34:21,656 --> 01:34:24,825 The Honorable John J. Walton presiding. You may be seated. 1487 01:34:24,909 --> 01:34:28,162 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to district court. 1488 01:34:28,954 --> 01:34:31,290 Ms. Franke has a statement she'd like to make? 1489 01:34:31,374 --> 01:34:32,833 She does. 1490 01:34:35,878 --> 01:34:37,296 For the past four years, 1491 01:34:37,380 --> 01:34:42,718 I've chosen to follow counsel and guidance that has led me into a dark delusion. 1492 01:34:42,802 --> 01:34:45,513 My distorted version of reality went largely unchecked, 1493 01:34:45,596 --> 01:34:49,058 as I would isolate from anyone who challenged me. 1494 01:34:49,558 --> 01:34:52,687 I was led to believe that this world was an evil place. 1495 01:34:53,187 --> 01:34:56,691 It seemed that Ruby was 1496 01:34:56,774 --> 01:34:57,942 remorseful. 1497 01:34:58,025 --> 01:35:00,027 At least she fooled me a little bit. 1498 01:35:01,904 --> 01:35:04,323 Court is back in session. You may be seated. 1499 01:35:08,369 --> 01:35:09,328 Ms. Hildebrandt? 1500 01:35:10,329 --> 01:35:13,332 I sincerely love these children. 1501 01:35:15,876 --> 01:35:18,921 I desire for them to heal physically and emotionally. 1502 01:35:20,339 --> 01:35:25,052 My hope and prayer is that they will heal and move forward to have beautiful lives. 1503 01:35:26,053 --> 01:35:29,265 She wouldn't let the words come out of her mouth 1504 01:35:29,348 --> 01:35:33,185 that she had done anything wrong to those children 1505 01:35:33,269 --> 01:35:35,855 that she had taken to her home and tortured. 1506 01:35:36,856 --> 01:35:43,487 What happened to these children and your philosophy in dealing with them, 1507 01:35:44,488 --> 01:35:50,327 frankly seems detached from reality, or any objective standard of decency, 1508 01:35:50,411 --> 01:35:52,705 or even common sense. 1509 01:35:53,289 --> 01:35:58,002 The court imposes four one-to-15-year sentences 1510 01:35:58,085 --> 01:36:00,379 to be served consecutively 1511 01:36:00,463 --> 01:36:04,467 for each of the four counts of aggravated child abuse. 1512 01:36:13,601 --> 01:36:16,729 I was getting ready to move, and all of a sudden I ended up in prison. 1513 01:36:16,812 --> 01:36:18,898 You know, I thought, "What in the world?" 1514 01:36:19,398 --> 01:36:23,694 Now, I have been praying for five months, like, "Explain this to me." 1515 01:36:23,778 --> 01:36:25,529 "Please help me understand." 1516 01:36:26,864 --> 01:36:29,700 And then, I connected it to my blessing. 1517 01:36:29,784 --> 01:36:31,327 The first paragraph, it says, 1518 01:36:31,410 --> 01:36:35,039 "Through the power of your example and the spoken word, 1519 01:36:35,122 --> 01:36:37,917 you will be a great tool in the hand of the Lord 1520 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,794 in teaching the gospel to many." 1521 01:36:40,795 --> 01:36:44,548 I probably cried for an hour straight. Just everything clicked. 1522 01:36:45,090 --> 01:36:48,552 And I said, "I'm happy to go to prison." 1523 01:36:58,521 --> 01:37:00,648 Jodi, I know, somewhere is thinking to herself 1524 01:37:00,731 --> 01:37:02,566 that she can take credit for all of this 1525 01:37:02,650 --> 01:37:06,570 in the same way an abusive father takes credit for toughening up his kids. 1526 01:37:07,780 --> 01:37:09,865 I think she is where she needs to be right now. 1527 01:37:10,616 --> 01:37:12,326 The cycle has to stop somewhere. 1528 01:37:13,953 --> 01:37:17,206 I don't know that this could've happened anywhere else. 1529 01:37:17,706 --> 01:37:20,376 Utah protects their own. 1530 01:37:21,126 --> 01:37:26,841 The religious base here is very willing to follow the leaders 1531 01:37:26,924 --> 01:37:29,844 that have been appointed without questioning. 1532 01:37:29,927 --> 01:37:34,431 And Jodi Hildebrandt somehow convinced people 1533 01:37:34,515 --> 01:37:37,017 that she was the leader. 1534 01:37:38,477 --> 01:37:41,522 As an active member of that church, it's just disgusting 1535 01:37:41,605 --> 01:37:44,942 to see someone on their own power trip 1536 01:37:45,025 --> 01:37:47,528 take something that can do good for a lot of people 1537 01:37:47,611 --> 01:37:50,489 and twist it into something that can be so harmful and rotten. 1538 01:37:51,407 --> 01:37:54,368 Because this is a story about religious extremism. 1539 01:37:54,451 --> 01:37:57,037 I think that's why Jodi is such a risk to society. 1540 01:37:57,121 --> 01:38:00,082 She seeks influence and power over people. 1541 01:38:00,165 --> 01:38:04,003 She'll get people to do things that are destructive for themselves 1542 01:38:04,086 --> 01:38:06,714 and for us as a society. 1543 01:38:08,382 --> 01:38:10,759 Now that she's in prison, I've thought a lot 1544 01:38:10,843 --> 01:38:13,888 about that dramatic change in her life, and wondered 1545 01:38:14,471 --> 01:38:18,392 if she's still reaching out and trying to suck people in 1546 01:38:18,475 --> 01:38:21,770 to those dark places that she's brought so many people. 1547 01:38:22,980 --> 01:38:25,232 I think she's extremely dangerous. 1548 01:38:25,941 --> 01:38:30,863 If Jodi got out and she had a way to still influence people, 1549 01:38:30,946 --> 01:38:33,532 she would find that way and continue. 1550 01:38:34,158 --> 01:38:36,744 She has a clear pattern of manipulation 1551 01:38:36,827 --> 01:38:39,163 and victims over the years. 1552 01:38:39,246 --> 01:38:41,999 It's a pattern that didn't stop after Jessi. 1553 01:38:42,082 --> 01:38:43,959 It's not gonna stop now. 1554 01:38:44,043 --> 01:38:49,006 She likes the control, and it's something that I would be very concerned about 1555 01:38:49,089 --> 01:38:51,425 if they allowed her to leave. 1556 01:38:58,390 --> 01:39:00,809 The blessing's pretty clear, 1557 01:39:01,393 --> 01:39:02,853 and it says, 1558 01:39:02,937 --> 01:39:06,732 "The strongest message you will ever teach is the power of your example." 1559 01:39:07,232 --> 01:39:12,529 What's a better example than to go to prison unjustly? 1560 01:39:12,613 --> 01:39:14,573 And then go teach the gospel. 1561 01:39:16,116 --> 01:39:17,868 Which I plan on doing. 1562 01:39:29,505 --> 01:39:34,385 These crosses all over my body 1563 01:39:37,930 --> 01:39:43,227 Remind me of who I used to be 1564 01:39:47,481 --> 01:39:53,696 Give myself up to him in offering 1565 01:39:57,616 --> 01:40:02,162 Let him make a woman out of me 1566 01:40:05,416 --> 01:40:12,423 I'm just a child But I'm not above violence 1567 01:40:16,385 --> 01:40:21,807 My mama raised me better than that 1568 01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:31,567 When the preacher talks That man demands his silence 1569 01:40:34,194 --> 01:40:40,325 Daddy said shoot first Then run and don't look back 1570 01:40:43,078 --> 01:40:48,625 So take me down to the river…