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Downloaded from
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Police, friend, anybody.

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Just let us know you're alive,
Julie. That's all.

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REPORTER: Julie,
whose maiden name is Ming,

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was driven home in the early hours

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but had vanished when her family
called in the morning.

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I drove down to the house.

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My gut feeling straight away
said there was something wrong.

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KNOCKING
She's knocking on the door,

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the window, no answer.

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I've gone up the stairs
to the bathroom.

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I'm screaming,
"She's under the bath.

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"She's under the bath."

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REPORTER: Today, detectives launched
a full-scale murder hunt

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involving 40 officers.

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The prime suspect was local man...
Billy Dunlop.

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REPORTER: The opening
of the murder trial today

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follows a high-profile
police investigation.

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I can picture him
just sat down there.

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Dunlop walked out of court
a free man.

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You've got no justice
for your daughter,

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and you've got a man out in
local pubs bragging he killed her.

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All I wanted was justice for Julie.

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MAN: All right.

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SHERIDAN SMITH:
I admire Ann so much.

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Rolling.

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Everything that she's gone through

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that we're having to re-enact
and relive every day.

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I mean,
I can only imagine, you know,

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so I'm only scratching the surface,
and it's very emotional for me.

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She's just an incredible woman.

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Thank you so much for today, Ann.

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If you need a break at any point,
just say.

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OK.

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REPORTER: It's hard to believe

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that nearly 17,000 people work here,
but they do.

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Many of them are on shifts,
of course,

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because Billingham never stops.

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SHEILAGH MATHESON: Billingham
was quite a close-knit community,

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and still is, the kind of place
where you know your neighbours.

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Most people would be employed in a
big chemical plant, ICI Billingham,

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or they might commute
into Middlesbrough.

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But it was very much

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your traditional
working-class population.

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This is where Ann Ming grew up
in the 1950s.

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At 16, she fell in love.

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I said to my friend's boyfriend,
"Who was that?"

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He said, "Oh, it's Charlie."

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He said, "His mother's English,
his father's Chinese."

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I thought, "Oh, he looks full
of Eastern promise, I'll have him."

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SHE CHUCKLES

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That was the start of Charlie.

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Ann and Charlie married,
and they soon started a family.

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We'd bought a new house,

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and the neighbour came to the door
with a letter.

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She said,
"We don't mind you being here

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"cos we see how clean you are,

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"but when your husband's friends
come to visit him,

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"it lowers the tone of the area."

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They had to put up with slurs
and questioning about, you know,

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mixed-race children,

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and Ann just stuck it out.

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The couple had three children.

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Julie was the middle child.

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She was fairly quiet.
She did gymnastics.

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She'd been in the Brownies
and then in the Guides.

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She'd stand up for herself
if she thought she was in the right.

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At 18, Julie met and married
a local painter and decorator.

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I mean, she was a young girlie.

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She was happy,
she wanted to get married.

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Julie and her new husband
found a house

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just five minutes
from her mum and dad.

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Not long after,
they had a son, Kevin.

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My mum was a family-oriented person,
quite a happy person.

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Loved music, loved to dance.

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If I didn't see her every day,
she was on the phone every day,

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but most days, I saw her.

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By 1989, the couple had split up.

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Julie's husband moved to London,

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while she stayed
in the Billingham house with Kevin.

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She worked in a local pizza shop.

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Cos they work late,
she had Kevin used to come and stay

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with me and his grandad,
stay overnight.

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Let's get you ready,
or Mam'll be late for work.

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Will you ring us in the morning?

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We need to leave around nine,
so can you call me at 7:30?

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You be a good boy for Nana, OK?
Mm-hm.

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'The last contact I had with my mum
was November 15, '89.'

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I was going to stay at my grandma's
for the evening

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cos my mum was working,

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and the following day, she was...

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going to court for her separation.

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She's not picking up.

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You know our Julie,
she'd sleep through a bombing raid.

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When Julie didn't pick up,
Ann and Kevin went round to check.

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I have very little memory of
from when we went down to the house,

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apart from being in the car.

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When I got there,
all the curtains were closed,

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doors were locked,
and I didn't have a key.

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I shouted through the letterbox -
nothing at all.

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My gut feeling straight away said
there was something wrong.

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She's knocking on the door,
the window,

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and, again, no answer.

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Ann went to find her son,
who was working nearby.

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'He came round the house.'

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And the back door had,
like, narrow glass panels.

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'We broke in that.'

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It's all right, stay there.

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'I was stood there with Kevin,

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'who was obviously crying
for his mammy.

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'My son opened the curtains,
opened the front window.

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'He said, "There's something wrong
in here, Mam." '

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"Everywhere's really tidy."

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She was quite untidy, Julie.

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There was nothing.

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No sign of her at all
and no keys anywhere.

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She's probably got home from work,
decided to go to a nightclub.

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Maybe she got drunk,
she's sleeping it off somewhere.

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I think the police didn't take it
too seriously at the time

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because initially
it was within a 24-hour window.

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In today's terms,
a misper's not really a priority

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until, I think, it's 48 hours.

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It was very frustrating
because, I mean,

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it was totally out of character
for her not to be there,

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especially the fact that I had
the young little boy with me.

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There'd been no arguments,
there'd been nothing, you know?

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Julie was officially listed
as missing

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two days after she disappeared.

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REPORTER: Julie,
whose maiden name is Ming,

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is five feet, three inches tall
and slim with hazel eyes.

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She was driven home in the
early hours of November the 16th

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but had vanished when
her family called in the morning.

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When Julie disappeared,

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it was a front page story
in the local press.

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Everybody around here
would have known about it,

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but maybe not further afield.

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Four days later,
following pressure from Ann,

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police sent in a forensics team.

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There was fingerprint dust
all over the place.

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Then we went... At one point,
we were in the bathroom.

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There was me, my daughter,
the head of the forensics

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and the police lady.

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And on the window
was Julie's make-up bag.

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I said, "You're suggesting
she took off to London?

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"She wouldn't go to the end
of the road without her make-up on."

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The police searched for five days...

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..but found nothing suspicious.

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The inspector came to see us,
and he said...

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he couldn't guarantee us

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that our daughter hasn't come
to grief somewhere in the country

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but could guarantee us

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that nothing untoward
has happened to her in the house.

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So I said, "Well,
if that's what you're telling me,

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"me, as a mother, I'm telling you -

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"I know
something's happened to her."

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Weeks had passed with no news
of Julie's whereabouts.

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Ann turned to the media.

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She sat in front of the cameras,
in front of the press,

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giving this appeal from -
definitely from the heart -

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very emotive.

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'And beside her,
the most poignant thing was,

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'there was Julie's
little three-year-old boy.'

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She would never just go off and
leave Kevin, never at all. Never.

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REPORTER: And were you
and the rest of the family close?

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Very close.
Like I say, she saw us every day.

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The last thing she said to me was,

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"Don't forget to phone me at 7:30
in the morning to wake me up."

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Just please phone anybody.

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Police, friend, anybody.

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00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,160
Just let us know you're alive,
Julie. That's all.

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We, as a family,
got the keys back.

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Myself and my dad were to move back
into the property.

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I went down to the house
with my son-in-law

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to go and bring
our Julie's things out.

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And then my son-in-law
was gonna go down the next day

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and start to clean
the fingerprint dust,

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which was all over the place,

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and to switch
the central heating on.

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There was a strange smell

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from the bathroom.

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00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,960
My dad rang my gran.

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00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,960
I said to him,
"It might be the toilet.

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"Put some bleach down the toilet
and don't use the toilet."

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So the next day,
I drove down to the house.

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When I got to the house,

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he opened the door, and I said,
"Have you got rid of the smell?"

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00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,960
'I've gone up the stairs
to the bathroom.'

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Inside, I'm screaming to myself,

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"Please, God,
don't let it be Julie."

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00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,960
'I leaned over the bath
to smell the wall,

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'hoping that smell would be
from the tiles being taken off.

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CLATTERING

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'The bath panel was loose.
It was loose at one end.

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'The smell had come up,

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'so I just bent down
and pulled it open.'

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CLATTERING

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'I'm screaming,
"She's under the bath!

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00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,960
'She's under the bath." '

200
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,960
SOBBING

201
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,960
I was at the bottom
of the stairs when...

202
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,640
she had discovered... my mum's body.

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00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,960
What?
SOBBING: She's under the bath.

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It really was horrible.

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00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,960
I just wanted to get out the house
and it not to be true.

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00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,960
That was the start
of a living nightmare.

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00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,320
REPORTER: 22-year-old Julie
was last seen alive

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00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,960
in the early hours
of November the 16th last year.

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00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,960
SHERIDAN SMITH:
But three months later,

210
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,960
Julie's mother found her body
under the bath.

211
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,640
Horrendous.

212
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,960
I sort of realised then
she was never coming back, but...

213
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,960
I'd been proved right.

214
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,960
I'd said all along
something had happened to her.

215
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,160
The police had said, you know,
"No news is good news."

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00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,800
Cleveland Police had searched
the house for five days

217
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,160
and found nothing suspicious.

218
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,960
Julie had been there all along.

219
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,000
I, honestly and truthfully,

220
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,960
they were in that house all day
for five days, I...

221
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,480
Even to this day,

222
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,000
I still do not know
what they were doing in that house.

223
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:43,960
And in that moment I found her...

224
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,160
..any hope of anything had all gone.

225
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,960
And I just wanted to know
what had happened to her

226
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,960
and who was responsible.

227
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,960
SHERIDAN: You doing OK, Ann?
Yeah. Yeah, I'm all right.

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00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,960
KEVIN: When the police were in the
house after the body was discovered,

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00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,960
they found articles, my mum's diary,

230
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,960
bank cards in the loft -

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00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,800
which were missed
on the first search.

232
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:12,960
Human error.

233
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,800
That's the only reason
why I can think that something...

234
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,960
you know,
the body wasn't found sooner.

235
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,960
The way the search was handled
was catastrophically bad,

236
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,960
not just in terms
of the way that Ann was left

237
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,000
and found her own daughter's body
behind a bath,

238
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,960
but not least because they lost
three months of forensic evidence

239
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,960
with a body that, unfortunately,
had decomposed.

240
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,960
REPORTER: Today, detectives launched
a full-scale murder hunt

241
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,960
involving 40 officers.

242
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,960
MARK BRAITHWAITE:
Well, going back to 1989,

243
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,640
I was a young detective sergeant.

244
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:54,800
I was 30 years of age.

245
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,480
When the missing person
investigation became a murder case,

246
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,960
Mark Braithwaite joined
as case officer.

247
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,960
Well, it was clear
that she'd been killed.

248
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,960
It was clear that her body
had been badly mutilated.

249
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,160
And it was clear that her body had
been concealed behind the bath panel

250
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,960
by whoever was responsible.

251
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,960
Our job was to identify
who that person was.

252
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,960
Mark here will be
your family liaison officer.

253
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,960
This must be a very... difficult
and frightening time for you both.

254
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,960
Difficult?!

255
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,960
Our daughter has been murdered.
This is hell.

256
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,960
Ann was understandably
still traumatised and upset...

257
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,960
completely untrusting
of Cleveland Police.

258
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,960
Detectives began with
the most recent men in Julie's life.

259
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,480
As the investigation moved forward,

260
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,160
there were several people
of potential interest to us.

261
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,960
Some of the men had links
to a local rugby club.

262
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,960
But DNA from the blanket
Julie was wrapped in

263
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,960
ruled out all but one.

264
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,960
One of these individuals came out
as the prime suspect.

265
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,640
Local man - Billy Dunlop.

266
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:23,960
Well known in the area.

267
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,960
Played rugby...
but with a fearsome reputation

268
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,960
as a violent, so-called hard man.

269
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960
Dunlop lived two streets away
from Julie,

270
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:39,960
and her keys were found hidden

271
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,000
under the floorboards at the house
where he was staying.

272
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,960
WOMAN: Yes!
Who's drunk?

273
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,640
Right here at the beat. Whoo!

274
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,960
All right, Billy? On my radio!

275
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,960
On the night
that Julie met her death,

276
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,320
Dunlop had been at the rugby club
at Billingham with his pals.

277
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,960
They'd been drinking to excess.

278
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,000
There'd been strippers there,
so they were sexually aroused.

279
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:22,960
He'd been involved in a nasty
altercation with another man.

280
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,960
He had to be pulled off him
to prevent him hurting him further.

281
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,960
And he'd received
an injury to his eye

282
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,960
for which he required
some hospital treatment.

283
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,960
After leaving hospital,
Dunlop went to his friend's house -

284
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:39,960
next door to Julie's.

285
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,960
He'd indicated to his pal
that he might pop around Julie's.

286
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,960
The witness evidence of his friend
was that he left the house,

287
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,960
but he didn't see him go next door,

288
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,800
but he clearly did.

289
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,960
We were told by the police
of him being arrested and charged...

290
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:01,960
with Julie's murder.

291
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,960
We didn't know anything about him,
really.

292
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,960
I mean, just that
he'd been involved with it...

293
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,960
in a fight, the night...

294
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,160
of the night
Julie had been murdered.

295
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:22,960
More than a year later,

296
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,960
Billy Dunlop
went on trial for murder.

297
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,960
REPORTER: The opening
of the murder trial today

298
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,960
follows a high-profile
police investigation.

299
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,960
The accused, William Dunlop,

300
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,000
is said to have gone round
to Julie's house expecting sex.

301
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,960
I can picture him
just sat down there.

302
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,960
'Then when it went to the court
at Newcastle...

303
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,960
'you couldn't believe, you know,
the evidence they had against him.

304
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,960
There was the fingerprints
on the key fob.

305
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,960
On the blanket,
there was sperm that matched his.

306
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,000
There was fibres from his jumper
he wore the night at the rugby club.

307
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,960
As a prosecution team,
we felt the evidence in the case

308
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,960
was, although not conclusive,

309
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,960
was sufficiently strong
to satisfy a jury as to his guilt.

310
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,960
In court, Ann had to relive
finding Julie's body.

311
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,960
Even though she was wrapped
in a blanket,

312
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,960
I knew that it was her, our Julie.

313
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,800
'The smell was unspeakable.

314
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,960
'It was in my lungs,
it was everywhere.'

315
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,960
It was terrible, that.

316
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,960
Because the bloomin'
defence barrister, he said to me,

317
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,960
"You know, which hand
did you put behind the bath pan?

318
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960
"Your right hand or your left hand?"

319
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,960
And all the time, I'm in
the bathroom, getting flashbacks.

320
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,960
REPORTER: Julie Hogg is described
as having been a promiscuous woman

321
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,960
who had previously had sex with
the man now accused of her murder.

322
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:09,960
The way that the defence team ran...
Dunlop's defence

323
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,000
was to effectively
slurry Julie's character...

324
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,000
drag her reputation through the mud.

325
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,800
Dunlop didn't need to prove
that he hadn't murdered Julie.

326
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,960
All he needed to do was get enough
doubt into the minds of the jury.

327
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,960
While the defence attacked
Julie's character,

328
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,960
they also had another strategy.

329
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,960
The defence case was effectively

330
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,960
that he'd possibly been framed
by the police,

331
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:39,960
but it was not him.

332
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,960
He demonstrated in the witness box

333
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,960
the same careful, thoughtful,

334
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,960
manipulative approach

335
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,960
that I'd taken from the interviews.

336
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,960
Dunlop had sown enough doubt
in the jury's mind.

337
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,960
They were unable to reach a verdict.

338
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,960
The judge had no option
but to order a retrial.

339
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,960
'At the second trial,
the defence team was seeking

340
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,960
'to convince the jury, effectively,

341
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,960
'that Julie may have died
a natural death.

342
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,960
'Through engaging
in a consensual act,

343
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,000
'she had met her death in that way.'

344
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,320
Absurd though that seemed
to us at the time.

345
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,960
It worked.

346
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,960
After 13 days,

347
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,960
the second jury were also unable
to reach a verdict.

348
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,960
The judge ordered
that Dunlop be acquitted.

349
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960
HE GASPS

350
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,320
Yes! Oh!
JUDGE: Order.

351
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,800
He's getting away with murder.

352
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:49,960
Get away from me!
Look, I know...

353
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,960
No, he wasn't...
I know...

354
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,960
But in another blow to the family,

355
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,480
an 800-year-old law
called double jeopardy

356
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,480
meant he could never be
tried again.

357
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,960
Dunlop walked out of court
a free man...

358
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,960
..effectively knowing that even if
he admitted to Julie's killing,

359
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,960
we couldn't charge him
with murder again.

360
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,160
Ann had to watch the man

361
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,960
who she knew in her heart
had murdered her daughter walk free.

362
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,960
Not only that, he was living
in the same community as her.

363
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,960
To everyone else,
Dunlop was now a victim,

364
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,960
wrongly prosecuted.

365
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,960
And now he wanted to tell HIS story.

366
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,960
I was so... so relieved,
but, er...

367
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,320
I'm so confused,

368
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,960
you know, with everything that's
gone on in the last 20 months.

369
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,960
I don't know. I just, er...

370
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,000
Just... It is just a relief
that it's all over with now.

371
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,480
What do you think of the murderer?

372
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,960
Well, I haven't got words
that, er,

373
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,320
could explain,
er, express that-that person.

374
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,960
Off camera,
Billy couldn't help bragging

375
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,960
that he'd gotten away with murder.

376
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,960
After his acquittal,
his family held a party for him.

377
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,960
And within weeks,
he was bragging in pubs.

378
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,960
People were telling my grandparents
of what he was saying.

379
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,960
The morning after the party,
and everyone is recovering.

380
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,960
You've got no justice
for your daughter.

381
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,960
And you've got a man out in
local pubs bragging he killed her.

382
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,800
Billy's laid there feeling ill.

383
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,640
It was just awful.

384
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,960
This is when the trees are all...

385
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,640
Yeah, the gardens are all nice,
and the flowers are out. Yeah. Yeah.

386
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,160
SHERIDAN SMITH: Kevin Hogg was just
three when his mum was murdered.

387
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960
Growing up,
I knew something was wrong.

388
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:49,960
I was 13...

389
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,960
..and I'd heard rumours.

390
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,960
A friend had told me
that she'd slipped in the bath,

391
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,960
and I didn't know what to believe.

392
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,960
Like, my natural instincts
were to believe my parents.

393
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,000
And then I really didn't know
what to do.

394
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,960
It must have been
really damaging for him.

395
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,960
The family, presumably,
trying to put on a brave face

396
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,960
and look after him

397
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,960
and remember that they mustn't
upset him too much.

398
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,960
Ten years later,
he came across the truth.

399
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,960
By then, Dunlop was in prison
for attacking another woman.

400
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,960
But he couldn't be charged
with Julie's murder again

401
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,960
because of the double jeopardy law.

402
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,640
Finding out the news

403
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,960
that my mum had been murdered
was absolutely horrific.

404
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,960
Having to digest
what had actually happened to my mum

405
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,960
and being told that my...

406
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,960
the person who had killed my mum
was in prison

407
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,960
but not for the offence

408
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:57,960
was just phenomenal
on my mental health,

409
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,960
level of understanding
of how a person can kill someone

410
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,800
and not be convicted of that crime.

411
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,960
I wanted justice for, like,
for all the family,

412
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,960
and I wanted justice for Kevin,

413
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,960
because it was difficult
to him to comprehend.

414
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960
It seemed cut and dried, you know.
They had evidence against him.

415
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,480
And because of a jury failing
to reach a decision,

416
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,640
he was walking free
and bragging he'd killed his mam.

417
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,160
It was awful, really.

418
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,960
Knowing that his mother hadn't
received justice left Kevin scarred.

419
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,960
Between the ages of 18 and 20,

420
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,960
I went completely off the rails
with alcohol, drugs.

421
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,960
Erm...
It just really wasn't pleasant.

422
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,960
I... I had no respect for...
or regard to my family.

423
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,960
And it was just going to end
in a bad way.

424
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,960
It's only in subsequent years,
as time's gone on,

425
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,960
I've learned to understand and
become at peace with certain things.

426
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,320
Dunlop thought he was untouchable,

427
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,960
and he still couldn't keep quiet
about what he'd done.

428
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,960
At some point, Dunlop decides,
for whatever reason,

429
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,960
that he's going to write a letter
to an ex-girlfriend,

430
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,640
then he wrote a letter
to one of his friends.

431
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,960
And both these letters
had the same thing in common -

432
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,960
that he was admitting
to the murder of Julie Hogg.

433
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,960
By lying about
Julie's murder in court,

434
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,960
Dunlop had perjured himself.

435
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,960
But detectives needed more evidence.

436
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:53,960
Well, that was the problem.

437
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,640
That's all he was basically saying.

438
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,960
"People know I've killed Julie,
but I've actually killed her."

439
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,960
So they weren't very sort of
detailed, anything like that.

440
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,960
It was just a simple admission.

441
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,960
Dunlop was speaking with
a prison officer who wore a wire.

442
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,960
She recorded 90 hours
of material with him.

443
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Over a three-month period,
he admitted to killing Julie again.

444
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,960
A bit more about what had gone on,
but nothing in any detail.

445
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,160
But that was enough.

446
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Dunlop was arrested and taken
to Stockton Police Station.

447
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,960
He's very, very calm and collected.

448
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,960
Didn't rush anything.

449
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,960
I suppose you'd say
his normal demeanour.

450
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,960
At some point, he states

451
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,960
Julie starts winding him up
about his injuries.

452
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,960
And I suppose you could say
that's like a red rag to a bull.

453
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,960
He just lost it, and then
he strangled her and killed her.

454
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,960
The police came to see us,
and they said,

455
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,160
"We've got... We're telling you now,

456
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,160
"we can charge him
with two counts of perjury."

457
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,160
So at that time, I mean, perjury
was a poor substitute for murder,

458
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,960
but it was better
than no conviction at all.

459
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,960
REPORTER:
Today, he spoke only twice.

460
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,960
That was to plead guilty
to each charge of perjury.

461
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,960
On the count of perjury,

462
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,960
you will be imprisoned for six years

463
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,480
to be served consecutive
to your current sentence.

464
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960
MUTTERING

465
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,960
You murdering bastard!
Ann.

466
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,800
Six years
for murdering my daughter!

467
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,960
I'll see you rot in hell,
you bastard.

468
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,960
REPORTER: Today,
Mrs Ming had listened in tears

469
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,960
to the harrowing details
of her daughter's death

470
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,320
and had made
an angry outburst in court

471
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,960
when the judge passed sentence.

472
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,480
I came out that court that day,
and I said to me husband, I said,

473
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,960
"I am not gonna sit back

474
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,960
"and let them do nothing
about this double jeopardy."

475
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,000
I think it was
a pivotal moment for Ann.

476
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,960
This nightmare
was just going to continue.

477
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:43,960
And so, suddenly, her campaign
to get justice for Julie

478
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,960
focused not on individual trials,

479
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,960
but a really fundamental,
important thing,

480
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,960
which was changing the law.

481
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,960
Ann went straight to the top,

482
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,960
asking her MP to help her
and Charlie meet the Home Secretary.

483
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,320
REPORTER: Stockton MP Frank Cook

484
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,960
is personally handing a letter
from the family to Jack Straw.

485
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,960
It worked.

486
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,960
Within days, they were walking
into the Home Office.

487
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,960
I said, "This man's making a mockery
of the British justice system."

488
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,960
I said, "You can confess
in a court of law in England

489
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,960
"that you're responsible
for a murder,

490
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,960
"and you can only be charged
with perjury

491
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,960
"because of an 800-year-old law."

492
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,960
I said, "That's not right."

493
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,960
OK, well, tell me this.

494
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,960
What would you do
if you were in our situation?

495
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,960
If you're to have
any chance of success,

496
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,960
you'll have to get
the Law Commission on your side.

497
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,960
All right, well,
give me the name of the person

498
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,960
I need to speak to
there, then, please.

499
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,960
You've got grit. I'll give you that.

500
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,960
We've been wronged, Jack.
How can I stay silent?

501
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,960
SHERIDAN SMITH: Ann's daughter Julie
was murdered in 1989.

502
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,960
The prime suspect had walked free
from court, officially innocent

503
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,960
but later boasting about his crime.

504
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,960
That's the one where you made the
request to meet the Law Commission,

505
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,960
and they'd written back.
Oh, yeah.

506
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,960
Alan Wilkie.
Judge Alan Wilkie, yeah.

507
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,960
Ann was now fighting to change
the law so he could be tried again.

508
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,960
Ann's approach to this
was to be utterly committed

509
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960
and utterly selfless.

510
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,000
If someone showed interest
in Ann's case,

511
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,960
she was happy to talk to them,

512
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960
and she made sure that this was
never far from the headlines.

513
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,960
Not everyone wanted
double jeopardy scrapped.

514
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,960
Critics worried that innocent people
could be tried again and again.

515
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,960
MAN: Stand by, please.

516
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,960
Ann faced Imran Khan,

517
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,960
who had exposed police failings
in the Stephen Lawrence murder case.

518
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,960
With all its power and resources,

519
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,960
the State shouldn't be permitted
to make repeated,

520
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,960
theoretically unlimited attempts
to convict a man

521
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,960
when he doesn't have
the analogous resources

522
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,000
to find the evidence
that clears him.

523
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,960
MAN: Would you agree, Mrs Ming?

524
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,960
Would you be happy
with a perjury sentence

525
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,320
because of an 800-year-old law?

526
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,960
As a person,
I don't mean as a lawyer.

527
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,640
KHAN: No, no, no.
I agree with you...

528
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,960
Would you be happy
with a perjury sentence?

529
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,960
Of course I wouldn't.

530
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,960
Well, that answers it all.

531
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,960
I think you should stop the cameras
now because that answers it all.

532
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,000
Ann was invited to meet the legal
experts reviewing double jeopardy -

533
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,960
the Law Commission.

534
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,160
She knew this was her chance.

535
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,960
When we got there,
it was the full panel.

536
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,000
They were absolutely lovely.

537
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,960
They said, "Off the record,
you know, we're all fathers."

538
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:35,960
There wasn't a dry eye on the panel.

539
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,960
"Cos we're all fathers,
how would we feel?

540
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,960
"Would we be happy
with a perjury sentence?"

541
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:40,960
No, they wouldn't.

542
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,960
We know there are several other
families around the country

543
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,960
in your situation,
and we were hoping...

544
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,960
35.
I beg your pardon?

545
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,320
Other cases, that is.

546
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,480
I've met most of them.

547
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,320
They are just as desperate
for the law to be changed as us.

548
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,960
He said, "Can I use your letter
to go to government?"

549
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,960
I said, "You can use me,
never mind my letter."

550
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,480
He said, "It's the most
compelling case in the country,

551
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,960
"cos you got the confession
in court."

552
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,480
Dunlop had confessed
to Julie's murder

553
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,960
and laughed at the law
that protected him.

554
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,960
But after 13 years, Ann's campaign
was finally breaking through.

555
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,960
This white paper is designed
to rebalance

556
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,960
the criminal justice system

557
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,960
in favour of the victim
and the delivery of justice for all.

558
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,960
On the morning that Ann was going
to hear the decision,

559
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,960
I was on a train with Ann,
filming her.

560
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,960
In the white paper,

561
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,960
we are praying
that the recommendations

562
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,160
to the changes
to the double jeopardy law

563
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,960
will be made retrospective,

564
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,960
which is what we desperately need
to obtain justice for Julie.

565
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,480
You can imagine,
we were all nervous,

566
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960
and we had an inkling that the law
was going to be changed,

567
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,960
but we didn't know if it was going
to be changed retrospectively.

568
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,320
'As David Blunkett stood up
in the House of Commons...'

569
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,960
Hello. Hello there,
my name's Ann Ming. I'm here...

570
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,320
This is for you, Mrs Ming.

571
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,960
'..Ann collected a copy
of the white paper,

572
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,960
'desperate to know if the changes
would apply to older cases.'

573
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,960
SHE EXHALES

574
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,960
It's retrospective!

575
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,960
The double jeopardy law
is gonna be retrospective.

576
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,160
God, I can't believe it.
SHE SOBS

577
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,480
13 years of fighting
and campaigning, oh, God.

578
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,960
I just can't believe it.

579
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,960
Oh, God.
For once in my life, I'm speechless.

580
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,320
She was crying, Kevin was crying,
Charlie was crying.

581
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,960
I was crying, the cameraman
was crying, everybody was crying.

582
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,960
We were absolutely overwhelmed

583
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:14,960
to think that all her battling
and all her hard work had succeeded.

584
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,800
The law had cleared
its first hurdle,

585
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,960
but the House of Lords
could stop it all.

586
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,960
They're a bunch of old conservative
white men in the main.

587
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,960
They're not generally keen
on dismantling ancient English laws.

588
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,960
We got our appointment
to go to the House of Lords.

589
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,320
I wasn't nervous about addressing
the House of Lords.

590
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,960
It was the fact
that I wanted to win them round

591
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,640
to see that
the common-sense approach

592
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,960
with the double jeopardy reform
was the way forward.

593
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Look, I'm gonna tell you
how it feels to lose a child...

594
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,960
..and how it feels
to be shafted by the law.

595
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,800
My daughter had a right to life,
Dunlop took her life away.

596
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,000
We have a right to justice.

597
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,960
And for us and other families
who have had acquittals,

598
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,960
the only way forward
and to make this happen

599
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,960
is to change
the double jeopardy law.

600
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,640
They agreed.

601
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,960
And in April 2005,
an 800-year-old law was swept away.

602
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,480
Billy Dunlop's protection
evaporated.

603
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,960
REPORTER:
Ann Ming heading for London

604
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,320
to see Billy Dunlop in the dock
at the Old Bailey.

605
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,000
The extraordinary thing was
that Ann had got Billy Dunlop,

606
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,320
the man who she believed
had murdered her daughter,

607
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,960
into the dock of the Old Bailey,
Number One Court.

608
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,960
She looked him straight in the eye,
and he could not look at her.

609
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,960
The judge, David Calvert-Smith,

610
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,320
asked Dunlop
was he guilty of killing Julie.

611
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,480
I can't tell you what it felt like
to hear him say "guilty".

612
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,960
It's taken nearly 17 years,

613
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960
but we've finally heard
Billy Dunlop confess in court

614
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,960
that he's murdered our daughter.

615
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,960
It was hugely emotionally charged.

616
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,960
I suspect, one of immense relief
and satisfaction

617
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,960
that she, Ann, fundamentally
had championed this change

618
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,800
and that she'd been able
to secure justice

619
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:56,960
for the murder of her daughter.

620
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,960
In the end, the man
who'd mocked the law for 17 years

621
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,960
was sentenced to life behind bars.

622
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,960
'I've carried this case for 18
of my 32 years' police service

623
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,960
'in some shape or form.'

624
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,640
It's been my privilege to support
Ann and the family throughout.

625
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,960
I think Ann's legacy is the fact

626
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,640
that she had
an 800-year-old law changed.

627
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,160
But also, she didn't stop.

628
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,960
She's gone round to police
conferences all over the country

629
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,960
trying to explain what it's like
to be a victim

630
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,160
and relatives of the victim.

631
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,960
Obviously, this case
has been a privilege to work on,

632
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,960
as far as I'm concerned.

633
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,960
It's Ann's case.

634
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,960
Ann deserves all the praise.

635
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,960
She's highly, highly motivated

636
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,960
and obviously an inspiration
to everyone that meets her.

637
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,800
She'll never, ever give up at all.

638
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,960
I think she portrayed me
really well, absolutely,

639
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,000
because it was like...

640
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,960
it was like watching myself,
actually, watching it.

641
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,320
I cried all the way through it

642
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,960
because I was feeling
all the emotions that I was feeling

643
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,640
at the time
when she was taking the part.

644
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,960
She's so resilient now
because she's been through so much.

645
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,960
Even in your darkest moments,
you get through them, and...

646
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,960
she's just a prime example of that.

647
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,960
She's amazing.

648
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,000
A lot of people seem to think

649
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,960
I had a team of lawyers backing me
all the way, but I didn't.

650
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,960
I was like... you know,
family support and Kevin,

651
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,960
but I was like a one-man band.

652
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960
Me against the world.
LAUGHS

653
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,480
That's what I felt like at times.

654
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,960
She kept on fighting
for all those years,

655
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,480
and eventually she got
the double jeopardy law changed.

656
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,960
She's made such a big impact.

657
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,960
I hope that my mum would be proud
of what my nan has achieved

658
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,960
for something that's so natural as
a parent, to fight for your child.

659
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,960
I've got lots of things
that I remember about Julie.

660
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,640
About a year
before she was murdered,

661
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,960
we'd gone into town.

662
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,640
She had about five-inch
orange high heels on.

663
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,960
"Mam, swap shoes,
my feet are killing me."

664
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:58,960
So I'm walking around the town

665
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,960
with a pair of five-inch
orange shoes on, you know.

666
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,960
She was, erm...

667
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,960
No, she was one on her own,
was Julie, you know? Yeah.

668
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,960
'Ann refused to give up.

669
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,640
'She made history
by rewriting British law

670
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,960
'and opened the door for justice
for other families.

671
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,960
'All for the love of her Julie.'

672
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,960
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