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These are bigger than just regular
run-of-the-mill cases.
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These artifacts, once they're gone,
they're gone forever.
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When I walk through a museum today
and I look at those statues,
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I just know that there's so much history
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that the people looking at those statues
don't want to know.
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They really don't want to know.
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If they know, they would go back
and ask for a refund.
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They'd say, why would you charge us
to see these blood antiquities?
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Why do you even have these here?
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I've been to many archaeological sites.
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I've never seen one absolutely
completely plundered.
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In a very short time period,
they fell victim to war profiteers,
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they fell victim to greed.
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It would seem
that it was highly organized
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by people who had finances
and the power.
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It had to be someone in authority.
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The networks behind them
were very advanced,
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the smuggling routes were complicated.
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These are difficult investigations.
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The illicit trade in art and antiquities
is funding organized crime,
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it's funding violent extremism.
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Death threats,
calls in the morning at 3 o'clock.
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People have families, they've got kids.
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You don't put that stuff at risk.
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My daughter and my bodybuilder chef
talked to two priests,
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independent of one another.
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Both of the priests indicated
that in some previous life,
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I was Khmer,
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and that what I collect
had once belonged to me.
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He would take people like the Lindemanns,
who were these billionaires,
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Martin Lerner, who at the time was
the curator
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of the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
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to these remote jungle sites.
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It must have been very exciting.
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And having someone
like Latchford show them around
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and have so much knowledge
about all of these items,
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I'm sure he was very entertaining.
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There was a British stone conservator.
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Simon Warrack is his name.
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He had been working
at this beautiful site of Koh Ker,
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which used to be the capital
of the Khmer Empire.
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The statues there are very, very distinct
and very different.
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This is the site of this beautiful piece
that they called the Duryodhana.
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And he spotted two pieces
of stone on the ground.
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These blocks just had the feet attached,
and the body was nowhere in sight.
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This is pretty much where they were
when we saw the feet the first time.
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And since then,
they've excavated this trench.
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He happened to be in a library,
and he saw a statue.
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He could see
by the position of the legs,
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he said, "This kind of looks like
it might fit one of those pedestals."
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And sure enough, he lined them up
and he said, "I think this is matching."
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A few years later, Eric Bourdonneau,
a French researcher,
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he was able to do computer modelling
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to show that that statue
in Adoration and Glory,
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said to be owned
by a private collection,
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was the statue
that matched the pedestal.
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In 2010, this Belgian widow decided
she wanted to sell the Duryodhana statue
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that her husband had acquired.
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She reached out to Sotheby's,
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which is obviously
a very elite auction house,
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and said, "Look,
I really want to sell this."
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Sotheby's put that statue on the cover
of its auction
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of South and Southeast Asian art
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for an estimated value
of $2 to $3 million.
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Cambodia then sent a letter
to Sotheby's saying,
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"Don't sell it
because the feet are found."
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"This statue belongs
to Cambodia."
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Within hours to spare,
this auction was stopped.
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U.S. authorities said,
"Look, this is looted.
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"We want to return it to Cambodia."
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Sotheby's said, "No, no, no, no,
we want to sell it,
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"and we have the right to sell it."
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And so they, in the search
for the provenance,
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reached out to Emma Bunker,
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who also was a very close friend
of Douglas Latchford's.
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A lot of the emails between Emma Bunker
and Douglas Latchford
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were very illuminating.
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It was clear that he definitely was
the first owner,
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because they were then trying
to cover for him.
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I think that made him
a person of interest.
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I don't know where they imagined
that I owned the piece,
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but let me confirm to you first
that I did not own the piece.
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I had nothing to do with it.
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So the Pandora Papers was this cache
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of nearly 12 million financial documents
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from offshore secrecy havens
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that showed basically
how wealthy people
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and also sometimes criminals
conceal their assets.
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With the art market in general,
you have items worth millions of dollars
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that are being sold
in a very non-transparent way,
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that are changing hands
often across international borders.
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I ended up working on the Latchford one
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and so I was basically going through
every single document I could find.
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Shortly after the Sotheby's suit,
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the Latchfords turned to Trident Trust,
which was this offshore service provider.
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We were able to see that this guy
Latchford is pretty interesting.
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Where did the antiquities go?
And where did the money go?
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We were trying to track
both of those things.
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What interested us was, about three months
after the sale was actually stopped
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is when you saw the Skanda Trust
being formed.
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-So I mean, it could be coincidence.
-Certainly not a coincidence!
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Start scrolling away some of the artifacts
into a trust...
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Right, and also
some of the finances too,
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because that's a lot of money.
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Anytime I would see a story
about law enforcement or crime,
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but in particular the federal agents,
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I just knew that's what
I needed to be doing.
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It was like a calling:
"That's what I'm going to do."
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Narcotics investigations,
money launderers, fraudulent passports.
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Over the years I had done
all of those types of cases.
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I hear rumblings
of an agent in our office
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who's recovering ancient artifacts,
so I sought him out.
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He told me he was drowning in cases
and could really use the help.
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There's been no looking back
ever since.
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It's been a wild ride.
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Whenever we start an antiquities case,
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we approach it from two aspects.
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Can we prove that the piece is dirty?
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And then, can we prove
that someone committed a crime?
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Did someone knowingly smuggle
something illicit?
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Two aspects: the piece itself,
and then whether someone broke the law.
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I knew Latchford was dirty
from the Duryodhana case
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and seeing pieces that his name
was associated with.
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What I was trying to figure out is
how involved, how dirty was Latchford?
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In 2016, I led Operation Indochina
Peninsula Plunder,
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which was the investigation
into Douglas Latchford and his network.
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If you're going to allege
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that a particular artifact
originates in a certain temple,
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who's going to know that better
than people there on the ground?
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My name is Bradley Gordon.
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I'm officially appointed to advise
the ministry
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on repatriations
of stolen antiquities.
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I walk into a museum, I feel like,
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do they have my picture
behind somewhere?
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"Brad Gordon,
don't let this guy in!"
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The DOJ said to me, "We're working
on a case involving Sotheby's."
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"You know about Latchford, right?"
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I went to the Cambodian government
and said,
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"Look, there's someone out there,
you should get back his collection."
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If you look at Cambodia,
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and you're considering the number
of temples that these guys raided,
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the number of crime sites,
the number of statues,
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it's an enormous amount.
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We were hired
to find the looting network.
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Our assignment was to come up here
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and track down villagers,
track down witnesses.
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With Naren, the two of us
went over the country
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and we interviewed many, many people.
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In the beginning, I didn't quite know
where Latchford fit into the picture.
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People were terrified, they were afraid.
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They didn't want to talk
about who was involved.
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They were willing
to identify certain statues.
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You transform a piece of rock
into a piece of art
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and then you also embed spirituality,
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a sense of divinity
in that piece of rock.
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They're not just statues.
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They're our gods, they are our kings,
they are our ancestors.
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If we are not careful,
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my children, the future generation,
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might lose the collective memory
of their identity.
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I feel very uncomfortable
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that we transform a sacred value
for people into money.
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Blue Tiger is extraordinary.
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He was a trusted lieutenant of Lion,
the head of the gang.
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He has helped us tremendously.
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Given what was taken
out of Prasat Krachap,
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as soon as I heard about
the statues that came out of there,
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I knew that this was
an extremely significant temple.
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I now believe it maybe is one
of the most important ones in Cambodia.
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And Blue Tiger was there
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and participated
in the removal of the statues.
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Khmer Rouge was a communist movement.
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They started guerrilla warfare
from the early 60s.
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You know, in the 60s, President Nixon
and his Secretary of State, Kissinger,
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planned a secret bombing of Cambodia.
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They bombed Cambodia
without telling Congress.
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More bombs were dropped on Cambodia
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than any time before
in mankind's history.
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I've seen anywhere from
150,000 people were killed and up.
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It definitely destabilized the country.
There's no question about it.
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The Khmer Rouge were empowered
by the bombing
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because so many people in
the countryside joined the Khmer Rouge.
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It's April 1975, Khmer Rouge soldiers
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are surging into Phnom Penh,
Cambodia’s capital.
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Widespread panic permeates the streets,
as the new government empties the city,
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marching the population
in to the countryside.
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They undertook a very radical
transformation of Cambodian society.
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They basically tore apart
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all the traditions and institutions
of Cambodian life.
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So they tore apart families, schools,
the government,
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Buddhism,
all these things they tried to destroy.
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I think they've estimated between
one and three million people died
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from either being
murdered or from famine or illness.
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After the Khmer Rouge fell,
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all these people had been separated
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from their villages,
from their families,
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they didn't know who was alive
or who was dead.
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They had no income.
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It was a desperate struggle
for survival.
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All kinds of looting
of artifacts that took place.
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Looting, theft,
it happens all around the world.
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In conflict and crisis zones,
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you quite often have
a breakdown of the social order.
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You have opportunity for criminals,
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but also people we wouldn't
necessarily think of as criminals,
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to take advantage of that situation,
maybe to feed their families.
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In 2016, Latchford, he's just a blip
on the radar screen.
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So my first question to myself:
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"What is Latchford about?"
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Latchford was born
in the British Raj in India
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and then went to boarding school.
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When he was about 20,
he moved to Bangkok.
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And then he just fell in love
with Khmer culture
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because, of course, Thailand
and Cambodia share a border.
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Latchford had a reputation for
hanging out with the museum glitterati,
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the society people.
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He was a very high-profile character
around Bangkok.
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I was at dinner one evening
with François Duhau de Berenx,
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who was an interior decorator.
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François showed me a stone female torso,
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and it immediately had an effect on me
that would change my life.
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I was smitten and could, from then on,
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think of nothing
but this wonderful torso.
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He fell in love with it
and he became this collector.
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And he started collecting
Khmer antiquity at this voracious speed.
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He became one of the most preeminent
scholars of Khmer antiquities as well.
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He wrote these three coffee table books
that really catapulted his name
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to the top of people who knew
anything about Khmer statuary.
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One of my jobs
as a journalist in Bangkok
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was to write a story
about Douglas Latchford.
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And he showed me
through his place.
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Every little nook and cranny
of that apartment
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had ancient artifacts
sitting on it.
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He had beautiful artwork on the walls,
it was very tastefully done.
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Pretty much like you'd see in a museum,
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but these were sitting
on mantelpieces and shelves.
239
00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:30,252
You could see he had
a deep affection for those pieces,
240
00:28:30,336 --> 00:28:32,338
probably more than he did for people.
241
00:28:35,174 --> 00:28:37,134
A fortune teller had told him
242
00:28:37,218 --> 00:28:40,095
that he had once been Khmer
in a previous life,
243
00:28:40,179 --> 00:28:43,182
and that's why he loved
all these Khmer statues.
244
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,522
It's very interesting because Latchford
was both public and very secretive.
245
00:28:49,855 --> 00:28:51,190
On the public side,
246
00:28:51,315 --> 00:28:57,655
he tried to present himself as
this adventurer-scholar, in his words.
247
00:28:57,738 --> 00:29:02,743
So this is kind of drawing on
those colonial motifs
248
00:29:02,827 --> 00:29:05,830
of a very heroic European man
249
00:29:05,913 --> 00:29:08,624
who goes into the jungle
and discovers lost cities.
250
00:29:08,791 --> 00:29:12,419
Somebody who rescued
these Khmer artifacts
251
00:29:12,503 --> 00:29:15,256
that had been lost to the jungle.
252
00:29:15,339 --> 00:29:16,841
When I complimented him
253
00:29:16,966 --> 00:29:20,219
on the amazing array of things
he had in his apartment,
254
00:29:20,302 --> 00:29:22,888
he laughed and said,
"Yeah, but my best stuff
255
00:29:23,013 --> 00:29:26,559
"is at my daughter's place
in Mayfair in London."
256
00:29:29,603 --> 00:29:32,648
Douglas owned the entire
apartment block that he lived in.
257
00:29:32,731 --> 00:29:34,441
He kept a whole floor for himself.
258
00:29:34,567 --> 00:29:37,736
It's right on a canal
in the middle of Bangkok.
259
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:40,197
There was very heavy security there.
260
00:29:40,281 --> 00:29:43,242
I remember walking up to the window
of the security guard there
261
00:29:43,367 --> 00:29:46,245
and there being a number
of other security guards
262
00:29:46,328 --> 00:29:49,415
watching me from inside the gate,
all bodybuilders.
263
00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:52,293
It wasn't just one or two guys,
it was about five or six.
264
00:29:52,418 --> 00:29:55,462
Mini Schwarzeneggers, yeah,
Pocket Hercules,
265
00:29:55,546 --> 00:29:59,049
whatever you want to say, but they're
all muscle men, bodybuilders,
266
00:29:59,174 --> 00:30:01,260
and obviously very strong.
267
00:30:03,846 --> 00:30:06,473
One of the things I do as a hobby
268
00:30:06,557 --> 00:30:10,227
is to help the Thai
Bodybuilding Association.
269
00:30:10,311 --> 00:30:14,523
I was elected as president of Asia
earlier this year.
270
00:30:15,524 --> 00:30:20,112
I'm also president
of the Thai Bodybuilding Association.
271
00:30:21,947 --> 00:30:26,118
His love of the Thai bodybuilding,
272
00:30:26,201 --> 00:30:30,414
so we're told,
had more to do with his lifestyle
273
00:30:30,539 --> 00:30:37,338
than anything to do with sport.
274
00:31:12,957 --> 00:31:16,043
Halfway through the interview,
he said "Let's have a pause,"
275
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:19,213
and he picked up a bell on the table,
he rang a little bell.
276
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,258
The door swung open
and a Thai guy came in
277
00:31:23,342 --> 00:31:27,471
with a tight shirt on and a tie,
a butler-type guy.
278
00:31:27,596 --> 00:31:30,683
The bulging muscles
were nearly splitting his shirt
279
00:31:30,766 --> 00:31:33,060
and he came in and said,
280
00:31:33,143 --> 00:31:36,188
"Would you like Earl Grey
or English Breakfast?"
281
00:32:17,646 --> 00:32:21,275
It took a long time for them to realize
who exactly this man was.
282
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,905
For the longest time, he was just
this kind of quirky, romantic figure
283
00:32:26,989 --> 00:32:29,324
who was this bodybuilding aficionado
284
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:34,455
and probably kind of an interesting,
strange dinner conversation companion.
285
00:32:36,373 --> 00:32:38,876
When I went and interviewed
some of the looters,
286
00:32:38,959 --> 00:32:43,047
they talk about how they actually
met with Douglas Latchford.
287
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:48,177
So he has direct communication
and direct access to the looters.
288
00:35:41,475 --> 00:35:43,602
We sat down with Blue Tiger,
289
00:35:43,727 --> 00:35:47,648
showed the images of artifacts
that we were still hunting.
290
00:35:47,773 --> 00:35:51,693
He was able to and another looter
was able to identify some pieces
291
00:35:51,777 --> 00:35:56,448
that they were directly responsible
for having taken out of the country,
292
00:35:56,531 --> 00:35:58,242
which was so rare.
293
00:35:58,367 --> 00:36:02,454
The entire interview was a wow moment.
294
00:36:30,941 --> 00:36:36,113
We found on Douglas Latchford's
computer a photo of this temple
295
00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:40,117
and it showed just the top
of that piece up there
296
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,662
and it was labeled "Peacock."
297
00:36:43,912 --> 00:36:45,956
We heard from Lion
298
00:36:46,081 --> 00:36:51,169
how he came here in 1997
and he dug up the peacock.
299
00:37:45,515 --> 00:37:48,268
I had my eyes wide open
and my jaw dropped
300
00:37:48,352 --> 00:37:50,812
the entire time
we were talking to them
301
00:37:50,937 --> 00:37:53,231
because who, what,
where, when, how, right?
302
00:37:53,315 --> 00:37:55,776
That's what you need to prove a case.
303
00:37:56,651 --> 00:38:00,655
We have that from the mouth
of the very people involved.
304
00:38:00,781 --> 00:38:06,286
The Skanda on Peacock statue,
which sold for $1.5 million,
305
00:38:06,411 --> 00:38:11,333
I was able to successfully track it down
and I got it returned to Cambodia.
306
00:38:53,792 --> 00:38:58,130
And then your hunt continues
because there are so many of them.
307
00:39:27,033 --> 00:39:33,623
As we come to learn, there are different
Khmer Rouge controllers of areas
308
00:39:33,707 --> 00:39:38,128
in between the temple
in the forest, the jungle,
309
00:39:38,462 --> 00:39:42,257
and getting it across the border
and into Thailand.
310
00:41:26,861 --> 00:41:31,032
He's selling statues
for one, 1.5 a piece.
311
00:41:31,241 --> 00:41:35,704
We know Shiva and Skanda
he tried to sell for $25 million.
312
00:41:35,787 --> 00:41:39,583
He had another statue,
the Durga that's going back to Vietnam,
313
00:41:39,666 --> 00:41:43,503
he tried to sell for $34 million!
314
00:41:57,976 --> 00:42:01,021
Once I realized
that Latchford's a bigger player,
315
00:42:01,104 --> 00:42:02,772
Latchford becomes his own board.
316
00:42:02,897 --> 00:42:06,860
Who are his sources?
His sources are the looters in Cambodia.
317
00:42:06,985 --> 00:42:09,446
Who is he supplying?
Numerous entities.
318
00:42:09,529 --> 00:42:13,408
They're going to supply museums,
to supply gallery owners,
319
00:42:13,491 --> 00:42:15,535
to supply private collectors.
320
00:42:15,619 --> 00:42:17,287
Now, Latchford's in the middle,
321
00:42:17,412 --> 00:42:22,125
and you have those arms branching out
to all these other people
322
00:42:22,208 --> 00:42:25,003
who have received
illicit property from him.
323
00:42:25,086 --> 00:42:27,464
Who else is helping Latchford
with provenance?
324
00:42:27,631 --> 00:42:29,424
Who are Latchford's restorers?
325
00:42:29,507 --> 00:42:32,260
And then his resellers,
there could be a dozen of them.
326
00:42:33,178 --> 00:42:36,097
Before you know it,
you have so many names on the board.
327
00:42:36,181 --> 00:42:39,601
It was simply a matter of:
"Okay, what's next?"
328
00:42:45,482 --> 00:42:51,363
You know, among all the many people
who aided and abetted Douglas Latchford,
329
00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:55,700
Emma Bunker is probably
the most important person.
330
00:42:55,784 --> 00:42:59,788
Emma Bunker was a major co-conspirator
of Douglas Latchford's.
331
00:43:00,830 --> 00:43:05,043
Because Emma Bunker was attached
to the Denver Art Museum,
332
00:43:05,126 --> 00:43:08,129
Latchford could introduce pieces
to a major museum
333
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,342
and have Emma Bunker
vouch for the integrity of the pieces
334
00:43:12,467 --> 00:43:14,386
for the purpose of laundering,
335
00:43:14,469 --> 00:43:18,973
so they could turn around and resell it
using the name of the Denver Art Museum.
336
00:43:19,099 --> 00:43:21,893
"This piece was just shown
at the Denver Art Museum,"
337
00:43:21,976 --> 00:43:24,979
so no one would ever think
that there was a problem with it.
338
00:43:25,063 --> 00:43:26,898
She was also a scholar.
339
00:43:26,981 --> 00:43:29,734
I think she never
actually finished her PhD,
340
00:43:29,818 --> 00:43:34,072
but she did really want
to be well-known as a scholar.
341
00:43:34,197 --> 00:43:36,032
And she helped him co-author
342
00:43:36,116 --> 00:43:39,202
a number of these coffee table books
about Khmer statuary,
343
00:43:39,327 --> 00:43:41,996
which authorities later said
were essentially used
344
00:43:42,122 --> 00:43:45,041
to launder these looted statues.
345
00:43:45,709 --> 00:43:48,962
Not everything that was photographed
in the books was looted,
346
00:43:49,045 --> 00:43:50,380
but that's how it works.
347
00:43:50,463 --> 00:43:53,925
You take some legitimate ones,
mix them with ones that are looted
348
00:43:54,008 --> 00:43:55,468
and poof, provenance, right?
349
00:43:59,180 --> 00:44:02,267
Provenance is the history
of an artifact,
350
00:44:02,392 --> 00:44:04,728
meaning the ownership history.
351
00:44:04,811 --> 00:44:07,147
A lot of museums don't actually list
provenance information.
352
00:44:07,313 --> 00:44:09,858
They would not share
those details with us.
353
00:44:09,941 --> 00:44:12,235
There's a number of Latchford pieces
354
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,114
that have an Ian Donaldson
reference in the provenance.
355
00:44:17,282 --> 00:44:21,286
Some of them were supposedly written
after Ian Donaldson had already died.
356
00:44:21,369 --> 00:44:26,040
It's clearly letters that were
cooked up by Latchford
357
00:44:26,124 --> 00:44:29,210
just to be able to show
the museum something.
358
00:44:29,753 --> 00:44:34,257
I mean, how cynical is that?
You use your dead friend's name
359
00:44:34,340 --> 00:44:39,179
and you imitate, try to fake
a signature for your dead friend.
360
00:44:39,304 --> 00:44:41,848
It's really quite sick, isn't it?
361
00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:49,063
There's a list at Homeland Security,
362
00:44:49,856 --> 00:44:53,693
and on that list is maybe
a dozen museums
363
00:44:53,818 --> 00:44:55,653
that have Latchford pieces.
364
00:44:55,737 --> 00:44:58,323
The Met was in New York,
I was based in New York.
365
00:44:58,406 --> 00:45:01,951
We knew they had some pieces.
That would be the next one to go after.
366
00:45:03,453 --> 00:45:05,872
There are some clear signs of looting,
367
00:45:05,997 --> 00:45:09,209
and it's something we look for
when we're poring over evidence.
368
00:45:09,292 --> 00:45:11,628
A statue will get broken
into smaller parts.
369
00:45:11,711 --> 00:45:13,254
Makes it easier to ship.
370
00:45:13,379 --> 00:45:16,090
Soil deposits
are a thing that we look for.
371
00:45:16,257 --> 00:45:20,303
Anything that's exposed to the elements,
you start to see some corrosion.
372
00:45:20,428 --> 00:45:21,971
Corrosion is a red flag.
373
00:45:25,642 --> 00:45:27,769
We have security on the front steps.
374
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,070
-Southeast Asia.
-Southeast Asia, over there.
375
00:45:44,285 --> 00:45:47,914
There's so many pieces here
that we have records on,
376
00:45:47,997 --> 00:45:49,958
I don't even know where to begin.
377
00:45:51,042 --> 00:45:53,336
So this headless female figure,
378
00:45:53,753 --> 00:46:00,260
we had the opportunity to speak
with one of the looters in Cambodia,
379
00:46:00,635 --> 00:46:04,514
and he admitted his role
in the removal of this piece
380
00:46:04,597 --> 00:46:07,225
and transfer across
the border into Thailand.
381
00:46:07,725 --> 00:46:13,439
On the condition report for this piece,
it notes burial soil found on the piece.
382
00:46:16,901 --> 00:46:19,654
For this bronze Avalokiteshvara,
383
00:46:19,737 --> 00:46:25,201
we know that it arrived heavily damaged,
from the Met's own internal reporting.
384
00:46:25,326 --> 00:46:28,496
We have from Latchford's
email source photos,
385
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:32,792
source photos showing the piece in
the condition in which it was found.
386
00:46:33,543 --> 00:46:38,464
This four-armed bronze Avalokiteshvara,
387
00:46:38,631 --> 00:46:43,303
the Met's own condition report
states that it arrived heavily corroded.
388
00:46:43,386 --> 00:46:47,181
You can even still see
parts of the corrosion
389
00:46:47,265 --> 00:46:50,810
on the top crown
and on one of the arms.
390
00:46:50,894 --> 00:46:54,647
So, you know, typical evidence
of pieces that were looted,
391
00:46:54,731 --> 00:46:56,566
when they arrive corroded.
392
00:47:06,367 --> 00:47:09,454
I have stuff on this one too.
393
00:47:10,496 --> 00:47:15,251
This standing forum Vishnu
has so many discrepancies
394
00:47:15,335 --> 00:47:18,671
in the provenance documents
contained at the Met.
395
00:47:19,297 --> 00:47:22,926
We learned the true story
of when it was found
396
00:47:23,009 --> 00:47:25,261
and when Latchford acquired it,
397
00:47:25,345 --> 00:47:27,931
and we presented that evidence
to the Met.
398
00:47:28,014 --> 00:47:32,226
It completely contradicts the story
that they have on their own records,
399
00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:34,646
and we showed the documentation
to support that.
400
00:47:34,771 --> 00:47:38,066
This piece has bad provenance
and was looted,
401
00:47:38,232 --> 00:47:39,692
like so many others.
402
00:47:39,817 --> 00:47:42,695
It should be a no-brainer
for this one to go back.
403
00:47:51,162 --> 00:47:55,041
I didn't run into him very many times,
but I knew him.
404
00:47:55,124 --> 00:47:57,293
He's a person you stay away from.
405
00:47:57,377 --> 00:48:00,880
Do you recognize these pieces
from the Met Museum?
406
00:48:01,047 --> 00:48:02,840
Either of these?
407
00:48:06,594 --> 00:48:10,056
These are obviously
very good pieces, yeah.
408
00:48:10,473 --> 00:48:12,558
Yeah. Did you ever own them?
409
00:48:12,642 --> 00:48:14,102
Because in his emails...
410
00:48:14,185 --> 00:48:15,937
Did I own them? Or...
411
00:48:16,020 --> 00:48:19,023
So in his emails, in Latchford's emails,
412
00:48:19,148 --> 00:48:23,236
he said that you sold those to the Met,
413
00:48:24,112 --> 00:48:25,488
both of those pieces.
414
00:48:25,613 --> 00:48:27,782
-No, certainly not.
-You didn't?
415
00:48:27,865 --> 00:48:29,450
Certainly not.
416
00:48:29,993 --> 00:48:31,244
Certainly not.
417
00:48:31,828 --> 00:48:35,748
If I would have owned them,
I would have kept them.
418
00:48:36,833 --> 00:48:39,293
Evidence has been presented to the Met
419
00:48:39,377 --> 00:48:43,381
that a number of the pieces
that they have were looted.
420
00:48:43,464 --> 00:48:44,757
Straight-up looted.
421
00:48:44,841 --> 00:48:48,886
Eyewitness testimony from
some of the looters that were involved.
422
00:48:49,595 --> 00:48:51,848
From the late 80s into the mid 90s,
423
00:48:51,931 --> 00:48:55,768
the Curator of South and Southeast Asian
Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art
424
00:48:55,852 --> 00:48:59,313
had to fill an immense new gallery
that they were building.
425
00:48:59,439 --> 00:49:02,859
One of the people that could supply
that was Douglas Latchford.
426
00:49:17,832 --> 00:49:21,127
The Metropolitan kept saying to me,
"Show me your evidence."
427
00:49:21,252 --> 00:49:23,671
And we kept asking them
for their provenance documents.
428
00:49:23,755 --> 00:49:26,424
They kept saying,
"Look at our website."
429
00:49:26,799 --> 00:49:28,718
There's hardly anything there.
430
00:49:29,135 --> 00:49:31,721
There's some records on some pieces
431
00:49:31,804 --> 00:49:35,308
where they have two conflicting
pieces of provenance
432
00:49:35,391 --> 00:49:38,728
for the same piece in their records.
433
00:49:39,437 --> 00:49:41,230
Here's where
we got the piece from,
434
00:49:41,314 --> 00:49:44,108
and a completely different story
which contradicts that one.
435
00:49:44,192 --> 00:49:47,320
The years are off,
the sources, the names are different.
436
00:49:47,403 --> 00:49:51,824
And they're in the same packet
for one of the pieces on display.
437
00:49:55,036 --> 00:49:58,664
You'd think that the Met,
with the team that they have,
438
00:49:58,748 --> 00:50:02,668
if they see different conflicting
provenance and they have those records,
439
00:50:02,752 --> 00:50:04,670
that might raise a red flag for them.
440
00:50:04,796 --> 00:50:08,633
And no one has made the connection
that they're different, right?
441
00:50:08,716 --> 00:50:11,052
Or that they conflict each other.
442
00:50:17,642 --> 00:50:22,063
To ignore the issue,
I think it's disrespectful.
443
00:50:24,107 --> 00:50:27,151
My name is Sophiline Cheam Shapiro,
444
00:50:27,235 --> 00:50:33,116
and I am the founder and director
of Sophiline Arts Ensemble.
445
00:50:34,283 --> 00:50:35,618
Performing at the Met,
446
00:50:35,785 --> 00:50:41,124
it was a form of quiet or silent protest
447
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:47,338
to bring attention to the issues
of looted antiquity.
448
00:51:04,313 --> 00:51:06,440
This is the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
449
00:51:06,941 --> 00:51:09,318
I'm more disappointed than I'm angry.
450
00:51:09,944 --> 00:51:12,363
It's the Met!
Like, what are you doing?
451
00:51:15,783 --> 00:51:19,537
The Met Gala tickets are $75,000 each.
452
00:51:19,662 --> 00:51:22,081
I know nothing else of the Met Gala
except that
453
00:51:22,206 --> 00:51:26,085
Kim Kardashian posed in front
of an Egyptian sarcophagus made of gold,
454
00:51:26,169 --> 00:51:27,795
and we seized it!
455
00:51:37,346 --> 00:51:40,266
The old British museums
used to argue that,
456
00:51:40,391 --> 00:51:45,688
"If we didn't save these, good lord,
they would have just been lost!"
457
00:51:45,980 --> 00:51:47,940
Which probably isn't true,
458
00:51:48,024 --> 00:51:53,029
but it becomes a justification
for basically handling stolen goods.
459
00:51:54,071 --> 00:51:58,201
Admittedly, these things were
moonlighted out of Cambodia
460
00:51:58,284 --> 00:52:00,494
and wound up somewhere else.
461
00:52:00,578 --> 00:52:02,455
But had they not been,
462
00:52:02,538 --> 00:52:07,668
they would likely have been shot up
for target practice by the Khmer Rouge.
463
00:52:08,836 --> 00:52:11,505
My bicycle isn't
very well looked after by me,
464
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:13,841
because I leave it outside
all the time,
465
00:52:13,925 --> 00:52:16,385
but someone else always
brings their bicycle inside
466
00:52:16,469 --> 00:52:18,512
and therefore
it's in much better condition.
467
00:52:18,596 --> 00:52:22,058
That's not a reason
for that other person to own my bicycle.
468
00:52:23,059 --> 00:52:27,813
When I buy a piece on principle,
I thoroughly research it.
469
00:52:27,939 --> 00:52:31,651
I certainly don't want to buy a piece
that's been stolen or anything.
470
00:52:32,068 --> 00:52:35,905
It is true that some
of the temples there had pieces stolen,
471
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,741
but it wasn't on a large scale.
472
00:52:39,325 --> 00:52:41,077
Bullshit.
473
00:52:41,202 --> 00:52:42,745
That's not true.
474
00:54:19,550 --> 00:54:21,427
So this is a legitimate profession.
475
00:54:21,594 --> 00:54:23,471
But it's not legitimate
476
00:54:23,596 --> 00:54:27,350
when those restorers are taking in goods
that they know are stolen
477
00:54:28,267 --> 00:54:30,436
and repairing them.
478
00:54:31,729 --> 00:54:34,065
Neil Perry-Smith is an art restorer.
479
00:54:34,148 --> 00:54:38,944
I arrested him for his role in restoring
stolen and looted antiquities.
480
00:54:40,571 --> 00:54:43,032
Neil Perry was in London,
481
00:54:43,115 --> 00:54:46,202
and the artifacts
had to be shipped to London
482
00:54:46,285 --> 00:54:49,205
for Neil Perry
to start working on them.
483
00:54:50,373 --> 00:54:51,832
He helped Latchford
484
00:54:51,957 --> 00:54:55,920
to clean up and remove the dirt
and other evidence of looting.
485
00:54:56,045 --> 00:55:02,885
Once a finished fully restored artifact
is ready to sell,
486
00:55:02,968 --> 00:55:06,472
it's mostly Latchford reaching out
to his circle, his crew,
487
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:11,519
and showing pictures, and oftentimes
those pictures show the pre-restoration
488
00:55:11,602 --> 00:55:13,813
and post-restoration photographs.
489
00:55:13,896 --> 00:55:15,731
So he's basically saying,
490
00:55:15,815 --> 00:55:19,735
"Here's when I found it,
and here's what it looks like now."
491
00:55:19,902 --> 00:55:25,449
Take an artifact that was worth
$100,000 to Latchford
492
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:32,039
and it gets completely restored to
where now he could sell it for millions.
493
00:55:36,377 --> 00:55:40,589
Museums were a little bit easier
for us to investigate, the museum items.
494
00:55:40,673 --> 00:55:43,259
Private collectors,
it's a whole different world,
495
00:55:43,342 --> 00:55:46,429
and it's very, very difficult
as an investigative reporter
496
00:55:46,554 --> 00:55:48,681
because they're basically a black box.
497
00:55:48,764 --> 00:55:51,058
Unless the owners want to showcase
498
00:55:51,142 --> 00:55:53,436
their private collection
for some reason,
499
00:55:53,519 --> 00:55:56,480
you might never know
that that collection even exists.
500
00:56:00,526 --> 00:56:02,695
Brad sent me
this very discreet picture.
501
00:56:02,862 --> 00:56:04,405
He had gotten it from
an associate of Latchford,
502
00:56:04,488 --> 00:56:05,614
who gave him no information about it.
503
00:56:05,698 --> 00:56:07,408
"What do you know
about this?"
504
00:56:07,533 --> 00:56:10,119
I said, "Oh my gosh,
all of these Khmer antiquities
505
00:56:10,202 --> 00:56:13,414
"sitting in this billionaire's
living room."
506
00:56:19,545 --> 00:56:22,548
Where did this come from?
So we started trying to search.
507
00:56:22,631 --> 00:56:24,383
We found the name of the street,
508
00:56:24,550 --> 00:56:27,052
we found some details
about the couple.
509
00:56:27,178 --> 00:56:29,722
Then we were able
to kind of triangulate
510
00:56:29,889 --> 00:56:32,308
based on other real estate listings
511
00:56:32,391 --> 00:56:35,144
that had other similar pictures
that matched,
512
00:56:35,269 --> 00:56:37,480
that this was actually
the Lindemanns'.
513
00:56:38,814 --> 00:56:42,651
We have the Metropolitan Museum of Art
and now we have the Lindemanns.
514
00:56:42,735 --> 00:56:46,322
In each of those,
the number of pieces they had
515
00:56:46,489 --> 00:56:49,825
was far greater than we thought going in.
516
00:56:51,744 --> 00:56:54,830
George Lindemann Sr.
was the patriarch of this family.
517
00:56:54,914 --> 00:56:58,501
He and his wife Frayda have
tons of properties, tons of companies.
518
00:57:07,218 --> 00:57:11,305
Access to the looters puts a spotlight
on the Lindemanns
519
00:57:11,388 --> 00:57:15,893
because the looters
are referencing specific pieces.
520
00:57:16,602 --> 00:57:21,524
And we sat down with Blue Tiger,
showed the images.
521
00:58:57,453 --> 00:58:59,622
We decided to do a spin-off investigation.
522
00:58:59,705 --> 00:59:02,625
Why do the Lindemanns have these pieces,
and what else can we find?
523
00:59:02,750 --> 00:59:06,378
We started trying to track down
any other photographs we could find
524
00:59:06,462 --> 00:59:07,504
of other properties,
525
00:59:07,630 --> 00:59:10,758
including this 2021
Architectural Digest spread,
526
00:59:10,841 --> 00:59:13,802
which we realized
was Sloan Lindemann's.
527
00:59:13,927 --> 00:59:16,388
It was this beautiful courtyard
528
00:59:16,472 --> 00:59:19,141
that had these pedestals
on it that were empty.
529
00:59:19,308 --> 00:59:21,268
Combing through Peter Marino's website,
530
00:59:21,352 --> 00:59:23,354
the architect who worked
with the Lindemanns,
531
00:59:23,479 --> 00:59:26,148
and they found an identical photo,
532
00:59:26,231 --> 00:59:29,985
except these pedestals were not empty,
they had heads on them.
533
00:59:30,110 --> 00:59:33,280
And they had these Khmer heads,
really beautiful Khmer heads.
534
00:59:33,405 --> 00:59:34,823
To me, that's very suspicious.
535
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,451
We have the picture with the heads,
536
00:59:37,534 --> 00:59:40,371
and then we have the same
beautiful courtyard with no heads,
537
00:59:40,454 --> 00:59:41,914
actually photoshopped out.
538
00:59:41,997 --> 00:59:45,000
And we thought, well, this is great.
539
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,631
It's not until we start
getting records back
540
00:59:50,714 --> 00:59:53,217
and we're looking
and we're like, oh my God,
541
00:59:53,342 --> 00:59:58,889
a massive collection of rare,
extremely valuable and important pieces
542
00:59:58,972 --> 01:00:00,933
that needed to go back to Cambodia.
543
01:00:04,186 --> 01:00:09,233
The Lindemanns amassed a collection
valued around $35 million.
544
01:00:09,316 --> 01:00:13,570
And people who have that much money,
I think they want to be special.
545
01:00:13,654 --> 01:00:17,241
They want to have something special,
something that nobody else has.
546
01:00:17,366 --> 01:00:21,328
The Lindemanns,
they just weren't as cooperative.
547
01:00:21,995 --> 01:00:26,333
But ultimately, it came down to,
you have a choice to make.
548
01:00:27,209 --> 01:00:29,920
We can go the easy way
or the hard way.
549
01:00:54,319 --> 01:00:57,281
He certainly felt like he was untouchable,
550
01:00:57,364 --> 01:01:00,617
and so you might have to wonder
why he thought so.
551
01:01:04,913 --> 01:01:06,915
One-track minded,
552
01:01:06,999 --> 01:01:11,545
and he had very good friends
in high places.
553
01:01:12,713 --> 01:01:19,261
He was protected,
and he wouldn't tolerate any competition.
554
01:01:20,804 --> 01:01:24,683
I got an email from Douglas
saying he'd like to catch up with me
555
01:01:24,767 --> 01:01:26,810
at the National Museum in Phnom Penh.
556
01:01:26,977 --> 01:01:29,396
They gave him Cambodian
citizenship.
557
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,440
The Deputy Prime Minister at the time
558
01:01:31,565 --> 01:01:34,568
conferred Cambodian citizenship on Douglas
559
01:01:34,651 --> 01:01:37,613
because he'd donated
so much to that museum.
560
01:01:37,738 --> 01:01:41,784
I have donated I think seven pieces back
561
01:01:41,867 --> 01:01:49,416
and I think these are primarily pieces
that they don't have representation of.
562
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:52,085
And my family and I have decided
563
01:01:52,169 --> 01:01:56,715
that in the future we would like
to donate more back to Cambodia.
564
01:02:08,936 --> 01:02:11,814
Deputy Prime Minister Sok An came,
565
01:02:11,897 --> 01:02:15,651
made a speech, and gave me a Khmer title.
566
01:02:16,068 --> 01:02:18,946
A royal title.
567
01:02:20,113 --> 01:02:22,658
So he came, he lied to the Cambodians,
568
01:02:22,741 --> 01:02:24,785
he flashed around a lot of money.
569
01:02:24,868 --> 01:02:26,453
I think he tricked them.
570
01:02:26,578 --> 01:02:30,040
I mean, they probably thought
they were doing the right thing.
571
01:02:30,123 --> 01:02:33,210
And in terms of getting these medallions,
Boy Scout badges,
572
01:02:33,293 --> 01:02:35,003
yeah, great, knock yourself out.
573
01:02:35,379 --> 01:02:38,131
You know, it just legitimizes him.
574
01:02:38,298 --> 01:02:41,051
He's got his bodybuilders,
his lawsuits, his lawyers.
575
01:02:41,134 --> 01:02:42,803
He's got the Bunker family.
576
01:02:42,886 --> 01:02:44,471
He's got lots of money.
577
01:02:44,596 --> 01:02:48,475
He had his addresses in London,
museums around the world.
578
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,561
He's got everything he wanted.
579
01:02:56,233 --> 01:02:58,569
With the bodybuilders
came the bodyguards.
580
01:03:00,112 --> 01:03:05,158
They had a reputation
that scared a lot of people,
581
01:03:05,284 --> 01:03:08,912
in particular local journalists and fixers
582
01:03:09,037 --> 01:03:12,332
who might be working
on this type of story.
583
01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:17,921
He was offloading his collection
in exchange for diamonds,
584
01:03:18,005 --> 01:03:20,257
in exchange for other antiquities.
585
01:03:24,761 --> 01:03:27,848
Hello?
Good morning.
586
01:03:28,557 --> 01:03:30,475
Hi there.
587
01:03:31,685 --> 01:03:33,228
I got your email.
588
01:03:33,312 --> 01:03:35,647
Why are people interfering
589
01:03:35,731 --> 01:03:39,484
and coming to inform you
that I sold some bronzes?
590
01:03:39,568 --> 01:03:43,655
Well, I think they were upset
that things got sold.
591
01:03:43,739 --> 01:03:49,494
I think they thought that
they were sort of important
592
01:03:49,578 --> 01:03:54,249
and it was funny that they were sold.
593
01:03:54,666 --> 01:03:56,585
I mean, I was surprised.
594
01:03:56,668 --> 01:03:58,295
Well, who told you this?
595
01:03:58,378 --> 01:04:00,547
Why were these sold?
596
01:04:01,340 --> 01:04:05,010
I think they were listed as Skanda Trust.
597
01:04:05,093 --> 01:04:07,137
What's it got to do with them?
598
01:04:08,639 --> 01:04:11,683
People get curious when they move around.
599
01:04:13,518 --> 01:04:16,730
-That's all.
-Curiosity killed the cat.
600
01:04:17,689 --> 01:04:19,816
-So what else do you know?
-Nothing.
601
01:04:19,900 --> 01:04:21,318
Anything new and exciting?
602
01:04:21,401 --> 01:04:23,445
No, everything's quiet here.
603
01:04:24,404 --> 01:04:26,615
Well, is that good or not?
604
01:04:27,824 --> 01:04:29,952
No news is good news.
605
01:04:32,454 --> 01:04:33,789
We see him conspiring
606
01:04:33,914 --> 01:04:36,917
between him and Emma Bunker
or him and Nancy
607
01:04:37,834 --> 01:04:42,381
to manipulate the data
or the information that's out there
608
01:04:42,464 --> 01:04:44,216
to sort of dance around it.
609
01:04:44,341 --> 01:04:46,760
Their imagination has gone wild.
610
01:04:47,761 --> 01:04:50,222
They've seen too many
Indiana Jones films.
611
01:04:53,141 --> 01:04:56,603
Nancy Wiener was huge
for the Latchford case.
612
01:04:57,270 --> 01:05:00,190
She was an art dealer in Manhattan,
613
01:05:00,273 --> 01:05:04,486
and she specialized in Asian
and Southeast Asian antiquities.
614
01:05:04,611 --> 01:05:08,365
She was already being looked at
by Homeland Security.
615
01:05:08,865 --> 01:05:14,162
In March of 2016, her gallery is raided
and she's subsequently arrested.
616
01:05:16,581 --> 01:05:20,711
Having access to Nancy's records
really is the breakthrough moment
617
01:05:20,794 --> 01:05:23,714
in the case against Latchford,
because now we see,
618
01:05:23,797 --> 01:05:27,259
not only is he so blatant
in his emails with her
619
01:05:27,342 --> 01:05:30,178
about where he's finding pieces
in the field
620
01:05:30,262 --> 01:05:33,265
and the source and the condition
that they're coming in,
621
01:05:33,348 --> 01:05:38,186
but he's also blatantly discussing
with her how to make provenance.
622
01:05:38,395 --> 01:05:41,732
"What kind of provenance
are you going to need to sell this?"
623
01:05:41,815 --> 01:05:44,151
"Is this good enough?
I'll write this letter."
624
01:05:44,234 --> 01:05:45,986
He would send her little samples.
625
01:05:46,111 --> 01:05:49,698
So having her records
blew the door open.
626
01:05:51,825 --> 01:05:55,579
I've just been offered this
Sri Lankan bronze head.
627
01:05:55,662 --> 01:05:58,081
Height: 18 centimeters.
628
01:05:58,165 --> 01:06:00,834
I've compared it with one I had,
it's the same.
629
01:06:00,917 --> 01:06:03,128
They're looking for the body,
no luck so far.
630
01:06:03,211 --> 01:06:06,131
All they found last week
were two land mines.
631
01:06:06,214 --> 01:06:09,301
What price would you be interested
to buy it at?
632
01:06:09,384 --> 01:06:11,803
Let me know, as I'll have to bargain.
633
01:06:11,887 --> 01:06:14,347
I've got one fresh out of the ground.
634
01:06:14,431 --> 01:06:16,141
We're cleaning the dirt off it now.
635
01:06:16,224 --> 01:06:17,559
Hold on to your hat!
636
01:06:17,642 --> 01:06:20,645
Just been offered
this 56-centimetre Buddha.
637
01:06:20,729 --> 01:06:22,606
Just excavated.
638
01:06:22,689 --> 01:06:25,734
It's still across the border,
but wow!
639
01:06:26,359 --> 01:06:27,819
This is smuggling 101.
640
01:06:27,903 --> 01:06:30,197
The looter finds it,
sells it to Latchford.
641
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,034
Latchford's gonna turn around,
sell it in Manhattan to an art dealer.
642
01:06:34,534 --> 01:06:41,333
For an investigator, you don't often get
this smoking gun kind of material.
643
01:06:41,833 --> 01:06:47,798
We used the documentation that we received
from Nancy to indict Latchford.
644
01:06:49,007 --> 01:06:52,636
In 2019, Douglas Latchford
was finally indicted.
645
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:55,806
Conspiracy to commit wire fraud,
646
01:06:55,931 --> 01:06:57,808
substantive wire fraud
647
01:06:57,933 --> 01:06:59,059
and smuggling.
648
01:06:59,935 --> 01:07:03,146
Conspiracy to commit an offense
against the United States.
649
01:07:03,271 --> 01:07:05,732
Entry of goods
by false statements
650
01:07:05,816 --> 01:07:09,111
and one count
of aggravated identity theft.
651
01:07:16,409 --> 01:07:20,664
There were so many museums
and dealers who dealt with him,
652
01:07:20,747 --> 01:07:23,333
and so if Latchford's being indicted,
653
01:07:24,209 --> 01:07:26,670
where's the shoe going to drop next?
654
01:07:26,753 --> 01:07:28,004
Possibly on them.
655
01:07:28,088 --> 01:07:32,843
And so museums are contacting us
and they're notifying us in advance,
656
01:07:32,926 --> 01:07:34,469
they're saying, "We have pieces,
657
01:07:34,553 --> 01:07:37,305
"we don't want to have agents come
storming into the museum.
658
01:07:37,389 --> 01:07:39,516
"We want to try
and get ahead of this."
659
01:08:07,627 --> 01:08:09,838
At the same time he's indicted,
660
01:08:09,963 --> 01:08:12,424
doctors find him to be incompetent.
661
01:08:12,591 --> 01:08:14,134
I'm not buying any of it.
662
01:08:14,217 --> 01:08:19,014
So I send agents to his hospital room
to actually inspect him
663
01:08:19,097 --> 01:08:23,768
and make sure he really is in
as poor shape as they say he was in.
664
01:08:23,894 --> 01:08:28,064
And they actually confirmed
that he was in pretty bad shape.
665
01:08:45,498 --> 01:08:49,336
Not long after that, his health
continued to decline, and he passed.
666
01:08:51,087 --> 01:08:56,468
I would have liked for him
to have faced his day in court
667
01:08:56,551 --> 01:09:00,263
and answer for the crimes
that he committed.
668
01:09:24,621 --> 01:09:28,333
Douglas Latchford's family made
an enormous amount of money from this,
669
01:09:28,458 --> 01:09:30,794
and they continue to hold onto that money.
670
01:09:30,877 --> 01:09:33,630
Julia Latchford
is Douglas Latchford's daughter.
671
01:09:33,713 --> 01:09:35,966
Julia signed an agreement with Cambodia
672
01:09:36,049 --> 01:09:40,262
to turn over hundreds of pieces
in the Latchford estate.
673
01:09:40,387 --> 01:09:43,640
It didn't make sense for Julia
to hold on to pieces
674
01:09:43,723 --> 01:09:46,518
that she couldn't sell
because they were tainted,
675
01:09:46,601 --> 01:09:49,312
and potentially she could be
in violation of law
676
01:09:49,396 --> 01:09:51,731
for criminal possession
of stolen property.
677
01:09:51,856 --> 01:09:54,734
You have the opportunity
to come out smelling like roses
678
01:09:54,818 --> 01:09:56,653
and unload all this dirty material.
679
01:09:56,736 --> 01:09:58,655
I think for her, it was a no-brainer.
680
01:09:59,114 --> 01:10:03,285
We had to go through a process
of working with a family representative.
681
01:10:03,368 --> 01:10:06,913
I went to London to drive with him
to the countryside.
682
01:10:07,414 --> 01:10:10,750
So I went with him
and we drove out to a pub.
683
01:10:10,917 --> 01:10:14,754
I took a photo of the pub
when I walked up,
684
01:10:15,422 --> 01:10:17,382
just thinking if I disappeared,
685
01:10:17,465 --> 01:10:20,218
somebody could check my iPhone
for that photo.
686
01:10:20,927 --> 01:10:25,932
And we went in to have lunch
and Julia was there.
687
01:10:26,349 --> 01:10:29,019
And she's like,
"Okay, you ready to see the gold?"
688
01:10:29,185 --> 01:10:31,896
She opens the trunk of the car,
689
01:10:32,022 --> 01:10:36,609
and she's got cardboard boxes in there,
four cardboard boxes,
690
01:10:36,693 --> 01:10:39,988
and it's the Angkorian jewels.
691
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,159
It's the crowns and the bracelets
and the armlets
692
01:10:44,242 --> 01:10:46,369
from the Angkorian Empire
693
01:10:46,453 --> 01:10:49,706
in the back seat of her car.
694
01:10:49,789 --> 01:10:51,333
Not the back seat, the trunk.
695
01:10:51,458 --> 01:10:55,837
But she went and just opened everything
and held it up.
696
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,716
Showing me, "This is an earring,
this is a bracelet."
697
01:11:00,592 --> 01:11:05,180
And I was deeply saddened and mortified
698
01:11:05,263 --> 01:11:09,267
that the treasures
of this great ancient empire
699
01:11:09,351 --> 01:11:14,647
were in the back trunk of a car
a couple hours outside of London.
700
01:12:20,839 --> 01:12:25,677
The looting didn't come
directly from them.
701
01:12:26,719 --> 01:12:29,431
It came from Douglas Latchford.
702
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:36,563
People can still do something good,
703
01:12:36,646 --> 01:12:39,899
even when they've done
something horrible in their life.
704
01:12:40,024 --> 01:12:42,944
But when they did that
when they were kids,
705
01:12:43,027 --> 01:12:46,906
they were in a very difficult position.
706
01:12:47,031 --> 01:12:49,451
It's remarkable, it's beautiful,
707
01:12:49,534 --> 01:12:53,621
and it's not something
I would've thought of when I started.
708
01:12:53,746 --> 01:12:57,125
I think it's a beautiful story
of redemption.
709
01:13:10,472 --> 01:13:12,849
The U.S. Attorney's Office
of Homeland Security
710
01:13:12,932 --> 01:13:17,020
and the Metropolitan Museum of Art
had been in negotiations
711
01:13:17,645 --> 01:13:20,231
over which pieces
would be returned,
712
01:13:20,940 --> 01:13:24,903
and it was a surprise to me
that all of a sudden,
713
01:13:24,986 --> 01:13:26,821
the Met just announced that
714
01:13:26,946 --> 01:13:31,910
we're going to return this batch
of their Cambodian antiquities.
715
01:14:21,709 --> 01:14:24,045
The Met have given back these 14,
716
01:14:24,462 --> 01:14:28,967
by and large, because they know
that they are connected to Latchford.
717
01:14:29,425 --> 01:14:31,970
If they thought
that these were not stolen,
718
01:14:32,053 --> 01:14:34,681
I think they would never
have given them back.
719
01:14:34,764 --> 01:14:37,809
I think they would have fought
for the rest of my life,
720
01:14:37,892 --> 01:14:40,353
for a couple of generations.
721
01:14:44,816 --> 01:14:47,819
They have done
something unprecedented,
722
01:14:47,944 --> 01:14:50,446
given back so many
to a country like Cambodia.
723
01:14:50,613 --> 01:14:55,076
But there's no admission,
there's no nothing.
724
01:14:55,243 --> 01:14:56,578
I think it's wrong.
725
01:14:56,661 --> 01:15:00,290
If they really want to sincerely
help Cambodia heal,
726
01:15:00,999 --> 01:15:03,710
they need to give
the provenance documents.
727
01:15:03,793 --> 01:15:05,878
They need to help us with the history.
728
01:15:06,462 --> 01:15:08,131
I believe that they know.
729
01:15:08,214 --> 01:15:10,049
They know the background.
730
01:15:10,133 --> 01:15:12,510
They know why
these are blood antiquities.
731
01:15:21,436 --> 01:15:23,021
It's raining so hard.
732
01:15:23,688 --> 01:15:27,817
Is it a sign of joy? Is it tears of joy?
733
01:15:47,086 --> 01:15:49,714
After so many decades, after war,
734
01:15:50,298 --> 01:15:53,635
and so much havoc
and damage in the country,
735
01:15:53,801 --> 01:15:57,263
I believe it's wonderful
that Cambodia is now being recognized
736
01:15:57,347 --> 01:15:59,265
as a leader for restitution.
737
01:15:59,349 --> 01:16:03,353
This is a beautiful, beautiful message
to the world.
738
01:17:26,185 --> 01:17:30,064
Having visited the different temples
and seeing the empty spots,
739
01:17:30,148 --> 01:17:32,150
and seeing everything that was missing,
740
01:17:32,233 --> 01:17:35,278
it just made me realize
that there's a lot of work to do
741
01:17:35,403 --> 01:17:38,614
and there are a lot of pieces
out there still.
742
01:18:43,930 --> 01:18:47,391
To see so many people
come together right now
743
01:18:47,475 --> 01:18:49,268
and do something positive,
744
01:18:49,352 --> 01:18:54,732
and to know that this has touched
so many peoples' hearts,
745
01:18:54,816 --> 01:18:57,109
it's incredible.
746
01:21:57,832 --> 01:22:04,380
You know, Cambodia,
we lived through war and genocide.
747
01:22:05,715 --> 01:22:09,135
If we are not focusing
on the positive side of life,
748
01:22:09,969 --> 01:22:12,346
we all are crazy.
749
01:22:19,061 --> 01:22:24,900
It's hard to move on if you focus
on the negative side of life.
750
01:22:30,322 --> 01:22:33,367
I know what it's like
to have no hope.
751
01:22:33,909 --> 01:22:36,829
I know what it's like to live in fear.
752
01:22:37,246 --> 01:22:40,166
You know, we are not all that.
753
01:22:42,168 --> 01:22:45,337
There was a time, many centuries ago,
754
01:22:45,421 --> 01:22:48,966
that we had built a great civilization.
755
01:22:52,386 --> 01:22:56,474
They have gone, but their work stays.
756
01:22:58,017 --> 01:23:01,520
Past, present, and future can connect.