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[birds chirping outside]
[dial tone]
[ringing]
[man on phone VO] Hi!
[girl on phone VO] Hey!
[man VO, chuckling] You sound so sweet!
[girl VO] Thank you.
[man VO] Are you nervous about talking to me?
[girl VO] Yeah.
[man chuckles]
[man VO] So, you know we gotta...
be, like...
really careful about doing this.
[girl VO] Yeah.
[man VO] Yeah?
What are you thinkin'?
[girl VO] What are you thinkin'?
[man, chuckling] I'm thinkin' I wish I was there with you
right now.
[girl VO giggles]
[man VO] If I was, you'd be naked.
[girl VO, giggling] Really?
[man VO] Yeah! [chuckles]
Would you wanna be?
[girl VO] I guess so. [giggles]
[man VO] Okay! [chuckles]
My precious little princess.
[girl giggles]
[girl VO] I like it when you call me that.
[man VO] I like calling you that.
[girl VO giggles, man VO chuckles]
[man VO] I've thought about you all day.
I have to go to Walmart really quick, though.
Get them things so I don't get you pregnant.
[girl VO] Okay.
[man VO] And then, I'm gonna be on my way.
Did you finish painting your toenails?
[girl VO] Yup, they're all nice and pink.
- [giggles] - [man VO] Okay. [chuckles]
[girl VO] I gotta go! I'll see ya in a few?
[man VO] Why are you rushing?
[girl VO] I don't know, I'm kinda nervous. [giggles]
[man VO] Well, don't be nervous!
I am a very lucky guy.
[girl VO] You think so?
[girl] Hey! I'm glad you could come!
[man] Hey, girl!
[girl] How are you?
[man] I'm good, how are you?
[girl] Good!
How was your drive?
Uh...
- terrible. - [girl] Really?! How come?
No, actually, it was all right.
[girl] Oh?
Well, look, we got these new chairs.
You have to sit down!
Okay, I have to sit down?
Yeah, look.
- It's a massager chair. - Oh my God, look at that!
It vibrates when you press the buttons.
Oh my God...
Yeah, flip the switches.
Which one is it?
Um, you can use either one of them.
It tells you...
There's one for your butt, there's one for your lower
back, and there's one for your upper back.
I just felt my butt...
I think...
You can pretty much tell the difference when you press
- all of them. - Holy--!
- Yup, that's my butt. - It feels so good, right?!
[chuckles]
I thought you had blonde hair!
Do you like it? I dyed it by myself.
- I think it's pretty. - Thank you!
It's very pretty!
I haven't had a kiss yet.
Oh, okay.
Well, then what did you wanna do?
Well, I want a kiss first.
And then what?
Can I have a kiss first?
- Well, let's talk first! - [chuckling] Okay!
You just got here! [giggles]
Would you like me to go in the truck and get my stuff?
No, it's all right.
No? You don't want your thing right now?
The present I gave ya?
Well, what is it?
Well, I can't tell you.
That wouldn't be much of a present if I told you.
Well, you can go get it in a little bit or something,
- okay? - Okay. [laughs]
All right. [giggles]
Are you nervous?
- A little bit. - A little bit?
Not as bad as what you thought you would be?
Not as bad, but I still am kinda nervous.
I'd rather, like, talk a little bit first,
and then, like-- so I'm more comfortable, you know?
That's, like, cool.
Good.
I'm really glad. [chuckles]
[laughs]
I like seeing you in person.
Yeah, I like seeing you too.
Good.
- So... - This is getting hot. How come?
Oh, because press the red button.
- It's a heater too. - Oh.
[giggles]
You gonna have a seat too?
I actually-- I like to sit on the edge of chairs.
- Do ya? - Yeah.
[Chris] You seem pretty comfortable there.
- How are you, sir? - How are you?
- All right, how are you doin'? - What's happenin'?
- Not too much. - Not too much?
You a Boston fan?
Actually, I don't even watch baseball.
Oh. But it's a Boston cap.
- It's a Boston cap, yeah. - Yeah.
So, what are you up to tonight?
Not a whole lot.
- Not a whole lot? - No.
Well, I'll tell ya, for the last...
several days, you've been up to a lot.
You're a pretty prolific chatter there.
Wanna explain yourself?
Not really, I never...
really...
was gonna do anything.
You weren't really going to do anything?
No.
So, you brought condoms...
What else did you bring?
- I brought her a bracelet. - A bracelet.
And her...
And she is how old?
- Supposed to be 13. - Supposed to be 13.
And how old are you?
- 37. - 37.
What do you think oughta happen?
Oh, here's a good one.
"Is Miss Vagina thinking about Mister Penis?
What is she thinking?"
What's up with that?
Do you ever watch television much?
You ever watch a program called Dateline NBC?
Well, there's something I gotta tell ya:
I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC,
and we're doing a story on [indistinct].
God...
Now, you're free to walk out of this house right now,
but if there's anything else you wanna say,
now would be the time to say it.
[man] Sheriff's office! Down!
Get down!
[man] On the ground! On the ground!
Put your hands behind your back!
[indistinct radio chatter]
[zip ties]
♪pensive ethereal music♪
[Chris VO on TV] Tonight, a Dateline hidden camera
investigation exposes a very real threat to your children:
online sexual predators.
[Mark VO] When you watch To Catch a Predator,
you can see right away why a show like it would take America
by storm.
[Chris VO on TV] ...and show up at a home where they think a
minor is alone.
The problem, as you'll see in our investigation,
is epidemic.
These kids range in age...
[Mark VO] The show began when NBC Dateline hired this online
civilian group called "Perverted Justice" to find
online predators in chatrooms.
[Chris VO on TV] Enter a group called "Perverted Justice,"
whose mission is to do what it believes law enforcement
doesn't always have the resources to do:
going after internet predators.
And they do it by posing as kids online.
[Mark VO] They have the decoy, who opens the door --
either a boy or a girl.
These will have been adults who happen to look
much younger than they are.
They will pretend to be the child that wants to have sex,
or something like that.
I'm just gonna go and get my hair ready.
- I'll be right back. - Take your time.
- I'm excited, by the way. - Me too.
[Mark VO] And then, you have Chris Hansen coming out...
[Chris] So, you're excited too?
[Mark VO] And ask them what they're doing there --
you know, what they think they're doing.
- [man] I'm sorry. - Please have a seat.
[man] I'm sorry.
[Chris] What were you doing here?
[man sighs]
[Mark VO] As an ethnographer, I study why people behave the way
they do.
What first interested me about To Catch a Predator
is how it is that grown men can
be so vile when it comes to what they assume are kids,
and how it is that we seem to enjoy
watching these same men being humiliated on TV.
So how can I help you?
Go ahead, have a seat.
[Mark VO] In that moment...
time stops.
I suggest you sit down.
[Mark VO] What you're seeing is effectively someone else's life
end.
And they realize it.
♪♪♪
The goal of the show was to educate people about the evils
of the internet -- the "stranger danger" folk.
But it ended up shocking an entire nation.
Online, on the street, at school,
pedophiles seize every opportunity to try and connect
with your children, and one reporter is doing what he can,
and he's doing a lot to expose these offenders.
Dateline NBC's Chris Hansen!
[cheers and applause]
I don't understand why the guys sit down and talk to you!
- Well... - [audience laughter]
I don't know why they don't just walk out the door!
Why do they sit down and talk to you?!
Well, my theory is this: that a large percentage of these
- guys... - [Oprah] Yeah.
Have an addiction, a compulsion,
they wanna get caught...
Explain to me; help me to understand.
I-- I can't! Because there is no reason!
Take me inside your mind; what's goin' on?!
Just bored.
Why did you do it? Help me to understand!
I don't know!
Well, why did you come here? Help me to understand.
Because I'm a sick son of a bitch.
[Chris VO] I'm not there to beat these guys up.
I'm wanna find out what's going on in their mind --
what led them to walk in this door.
You came over here planning to have oral sex with a
12-year-old girl.
I just...
I've had that fantasy in the back of my head!
Fantasy?
- About being with a young girl? - A young girl, yes.
Well, what do you think should happen to you?
I don't know why you're asking me stuff like this!
I mean...
Well, why do you think I'm curious about all this?
I could tell you're a therapist! I know...
- I mean-- - You think I'm a therapist?
In many cases, they stay and they talk to me!
They tell me the whole story!
Is there anything else you want people to know about your
situation?
My life is screwed. I'm done.
They may be in trouble,
but maybe now, they're gonna get help.
This is probably what I needed...
to...
straighten up.
You've scared the hell out of me.
I need to see a psychiatrist because of the way everything
is going in my life.
Well, why don't you go ahead and...
I hope you get that help.
[Chris VO] As he gets up to leave,
officers are in position, ready to arrest him.
[officer] Sheriff's office! Hands up!
- Well, you're free to go. - Well, you're free to go.
You're free to walk out that door.
Thank you.
[man] So, I can just walk out? No problem?
- [Chris] On your way. - Thank you.
It's nice to meet you. [chuckles]
And, obviously, you're free to go.
We can't keep you here; you're free to go.
You're free to leave, obviously, if you wanna go.
That's the wrong way, though.
[officer] Get down! Get down! Get down!
Police! Stop!
[commotion]
[man] Please, please, please, help me!
Oh, dear God!
[screams] Dear God!
[children laughing]
[Dani VO] I don't think I had any sort of idea
how big the show was.
To me, it was like,
"A couple of random people are gonna see this,
but it's probably not my big acting break."
Little did I know that it was going to live on...
probably my whole entire life 'til I die.
I will probably always, in some universe,
be known as "the decoy."
[laughs]
Should we talk to random strangers online that we
don't know?
I talk to some but they're nice.
What?
I talk to random strangers that I don't know.
But they're super nice.
See, that's not a good plan, because they can be-- they can
look like they're super nice, but they're not always
super nice.
[Dani] Older guys are better!
Better at a lot of things!
I'm more mature; I don't need people my age.
Fine, if-- honestly, this is stupid.
If you don't want to, then, seriously,
let's just get off the phone.
Two minutes?
All right, awesome, see you then!
[man] She just got off the phone with him.
Sending the decoy out.
[woman] There he is. Go out!
[Dani VO] I had to look at it as "This is an acting job..."
[Dani] Are you coming?! Come on!
[Dani VO] "But it's one that really heavily relies on me
doing my job correctly."
Have a seat. Will you pour me a drink, please?
- Oh, yeah, sure! - [Dani] Awesome!
I'm just gonna go get my bikini now...
Okay.
[Dani VO] The improv part was super important,
and my biggest goal was always
get them to expose themselves --
like, get Chris Hansen his best interview.
[Dani] Why are you paranoid?!
Just picture me naked and come on in!
I swear...
[David Osit] Why do you think the show was so popular?
I think it brought a lot of awareness to parents.
Like, I think that you get sucked in because you're like,
"This is a problem."
And, also, I don't think people realized TV could be like this
'til To Catch a Predator came along and actually put it in
people's faces that, like, this is real life,
it's not just, you know, fiction.
[Casey VO] My uncle is a realtor and was helping rent
out my nana's house to NBC, and so my dad went down helping
handle all the paperwork, and they were explaining the show,
and that they hire an actress from LA to fly in and play
an underage girl, and he's like,
"My daughter is an actress,
and she looks incredibly young for 18!"
This is actually the shot... [chuckles]
that gave me...
the job.
It was definitely the dance belt.
That definitely says "12-year-old girl," right?
[David] Do you think it's weird
that your dad volunteered you for that?
[chuckles]
He had no idea what he was getting himself into.
More so himself than me.
I was fine!
My job was truly...
"Be a face," right?
That's what they explained to me!
[man in earpiece] Casey, can you hear me?
Go ahead and, uh, open the door for him.
[Casey] Hey, come on in!
[man] On the steps, opening the door.
- He's in the kitchen, call out! - [Casey] Hey, I'm in here!
[Casey VO] The security guard told me,
he was like, "You are God to them.
That's why it's so powerful you-- when you say 'Sit' and
point your finger, they will sit."
And I was like, "Oh!
I have the upper hand here."
Oh my God!
[Dan VO] I wanted a paycheck.
"Sure, yup, sign me up."
I look young.
And I think that was the...
"Okay!
Perfect, that's what we need."
I don't think it was...
I don't think they really expected much of me as
an actor.
How ya doin', Stanley?
Doin' good?
Tough drive?
But it was a little nerve-wracking.
It was nerve-wracking, um, having to answer the door,
- um... - [Dan] Ya thirsty?
No? Can I pour one for myself?
Make them-- welcome them in...
So, what do ya think we should start with?
What are you thinking?
I think a lot of it, though, too, was...
[Chris] What is the, uh, lesson plan for tonight?
"Don't blow the cover.
- You've got a ton of people here - - who've been working hard now
for X amount of days -- that you'd let down."
[phone ringing]
It was kind of like a cool gang that you're in,
making sure these bad guys don't hurt any kids.
Seems like an okay club!
You know?
♪pensive ethereal music♪
[Dani VO] I definitely see
that not all of these people could recognize reality
versus fantasy.
♪♪♪
Some of them were so far in mentally,
that they couldn't differentiate the two.
♪♪♪
[Casey VO] They know what they're doing to a degree,
but it comes from this place of non-acceptance,
loneliness, and fear.
And so, by sitting safe on their computer,
at their home,
they found this easy in.
I gave them that full permission to disobey any
thought that maybe this isn't okay.
You didn't think I was real? [giggles]
Well, that can be anybody in that thing.
Yeah.
No, I'm real.
[Mark VO] The men would write themselves a pornographic film,
which showed up in a chat log.
And they wanted to follow through on this fantasy they
co-created with the show,
where kids are hyper-sexualized and sexually available.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited. Are you excited?
Yeah!
[Mark VO] And where that is actually okay at some level.
What do you wanna do?
[Mark VO] This was the era of Britney Spears and young girls
all the time on TV as sexual objects.
[Chris VO] Finally agrees and he says,
"Nice tummy, hun.
I want to lick that."
[Dani on TV] Why are you paranoid?!
Just picture me naked and come on in!
[Chris on TV] I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline.
[Mark VO] Talking to kids or pretend kids -- decoys --
online is already a crime.
So, the show's only job...
is to get the men to the house,
just to sell that fantasy for a few more minutes in person.
The parents aren't home.
The boy or girl is eager.
[Casey] Come on in!
[Dani] Come in!
[Mark VO] And so, when the men do get the courage,
eventually, to show up...
Oh my God...
[Mark VO] It's even better than their dreams.
Because the show made it that way.
[man on TV] Okay, out of the vehicle.
[Casey on TV] Hey!
Come on in!
[Chris VO on TV] Walking into our undercover house is
39-year-old John Elliot.
We've hired this 19-year-old actress, Casey,
to be our decoy.
Using a screen name so disturbing we can't broadcast
it, he tells the decoy about his fantasy...
Oh!
[Chris on TV] Of being with a young girl.
- "You were asking me about..." - Yeah.
[Chris on TV] "What I was daydreaming about.
Well, that's it.
You nude, and me licking you.
Gosh, you're pretty!"
[Casey on TV] Thank you!
So, what are your plans or what are you thinking?
Kissing you.
- Yeah? - [laughs]
You know, how we was talking on the internet.
[Casey VO] There were a few...
I wanted to just be like, "Go home."
I'm a freshman in college, I'm trying to figure out my life,
and one of the guys that came, we were, like,
pretty similar.
And I'm just talking to some guy on the beach about, like,
"College is rough!" and, you know,
"Do I want this major? Do I not?"
And it was very relatable.
And so badly, I just wanted to be like,
"Go home. Go home! Go home."
I just didn't-- I've just been worried that it's all some...
just some crazy...
scheme.
What do you mean?
They pay for, like, cops to, like,
pretend they're, like, girls and [bleep] like that.
- [chuckling] Are you serious?! - [man] Yeah!
So, I mean, I usually don't worry about it...
[Casey laughs]
But it was just, like, so awkward,
- I don't-- I don't know... - [Casey laughs]
[John] But I guess everything's cool.
I mean, I just-- I don't know, so...
[Chris VO] But as he's about to find out,
everything isn't cool.
- [Chris] How it goin'? - Pretty good, how you doin'?
[Chris] Good! How are you?
- I'm all right. - [Chris] What's happenin'?
You wanna be a television reporter.
[John on TV] Yes.
[Chris on TV] Have you ever been on TV before?
[John on TV] No.
[Chris on TV] Well, this is one of those "good news, bad news"
situations, John.
I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC,
and we're doing To Catch a Predator...
[John on TV] Please tell me you're not! Please!
I do not wanna be ruined for my-- I wanted to go to college
and everything!
I wanna go for sports broadcasting!
[Casey VO] I didn't realize it at the time how taxing
it was...
emotionally and mentally.
Years later, I'm still emotionally exhausted.
Like, I have never, like, watched this post it airing
originally.
Like, over the years, I've had my ways of being able to, like,
work through it, right? But...
that's a lot for someone to take in!
Yeah.
[production crew] Greg, you stand there...
[indistinct chatter]
[David] Before you started working with Dateline,
what did you think of the show?
Not-- I hadn't really seen it.
The, uh-- my staff brought me a proposal
about...
child predators and some sort of a sting operation.
That's when we partnered with them,
and we did three stings.
[Chris VO] Kentucky Attorney General Greg Stumbo worked with
Dateline in Northern Kentucky last spring.
Thanks for helping us.
To us, it was just a natural fit.
Law enforcement is not equipped to conduct these types of
operations at this point.
[Greg VO] So the stings went off without a hitch,
the prosecutions all went well,
so I got a lot of "Atta boys" at home, you know, for being...
for doing this and getting on national television.
But the point of it is
it needs to be addressed.
These people are out there and they're dangerous,
but none of them had criminal backgrounds,
so they'd never been arrested before.
Unless we did something of this nature,
they would have never been brought to the forefront
because we had no idea who these people were!
[David] As a prosecutor,
aside from arresting these men,
did you ever wonder to yourself,
"Okay, we can put these men in jail, sure.
But how can we fix the problem?
How can we rehabilitate these men?
How can we stop this from happening? How can we--"
My job's not to rehabilitate 'em,
my job's to make 'em be responsible for the act
that they committed.
These are criminals -- these are hardened criminals --
that engaged...
in this particular type of predatory conduct,
intentionally,
with malice aforethought,
you know, with all the criminal intent that you can think of in
the world to harm that child.
And I have-- I have absolutely no compassion for 'em.
I mean, um...
somebody asked me one time what I thought about the death
penalty, and I said, "Well, I'd shoot the son of a bitch myself
if they'd let me."
And...
But those are the type of people that...
They're just dangerous.
I mean, they're just dangerous, but we know they're out there,
and they're dangerous for our children.
[David] So what would you say
to someone who's critical of the show?
You don't understand the problem if you're critical.
Mister Chairman, I'm glad to see Mister Chris Hansen
here today.
His Dateline NBC series of on child predators has wakened
America to the dangers our children face...
[Greg VO] The more light we shed upon this topic,
it's gonna have a chilling effect on these crimes.
Nearly 130 men have surfaced in our five investigations.
98 of them have been charged criminally.
Seven have pleaded guilty.
[Greg VO] Most people didn't have any problem
with what we did.
Our next guest is the host of the funniest comedy on
television.
It's called To Catch a Predator.
If you haven't seen it, it's like Punk'd for pedophiles.
- It's a great show. - [audience laughter]
And you can watch it this Wednesday night on NBC.
Please say hello to Chris Hansen!
And people respond to it, obviously.
[Jimmy VO] When did you realize this is gold?
- [audience laughter] - [Chris VO] Well...
after the second one, I figured, "You know...
this is really compelling."
[Jimmy] Uh-huh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it is.
It's very compelling.
[girl] Have a cookie! I made them!
You wanna explain yourself?
[audience laughter and applause]
Wrap it around yourself.
And please sit on that stool.
What are you doing?!
Whose idea was it to tell the guy to get naked before he
came in?
Well, occasionally, they decoys will get a little
- playful in the chat. - I don't-- I don't wanna, um...
be on the news. You feel me?
[Chris] We are filming.
[man] I don't wanna be on the news, dawg.
Well, it's a little late for that, dawg.
[Chris VO] It's news gathering, you know,
so we don't need to get, uh...
- [Oprah] Permission. - Permission.
- I mean, it's for a news show. - [Oprah] I know!
And we're taping what really happens.
I know! I-- Could you see that guy...
You know, listen: amazing work.
[officer] Police! Raise your hands!
[Jon VO] You might think, "Boy, is that gotcha journalism?"
or "Is that exploitative?"
I think anybody that's having sex with children or trying to,
you guys should do this show ev-- you should have your own
- channel of this show. - [laughter]
You thought I was a police officer?
Yeah, I have no idea who you are. [chuckles]
Okay, well you do now.
- Hello, Homer. - Ah!
I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC.
Oh my God!
[Chris] Most recently, as of, you know,
this Spring when we were shooting in Florida,
you know, guys were coming in and,
before I could say, you know, "I'm Chris Hansen,
Dateline NBC," they were saying "I know,
I know, I know."
[congresswoman] It's almost like Candid Camera,
only with...
criminals [chuckles] that get arrested and go to jail.
It's-- it's unbelievable.
[officer] Just come on over here and face this wall for me.
You gotta anything on you I need to know about?
Anything sharp?
Any needles or...
[man] The only thing I had was a pocketknife,
but I think they put that in the bag.
Are you a counselor too? Or...
[officer] No, I'm-- I'm an agent.
I'm with the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation.
Oh, okay, I just thought maybe you was a...
Okay.
[officer] So, you are under arrest.
You understand that?
Oh yeah, definitely.
[chuckles] Yeah.
[David] So this is-- this is raw footage
from the show,
from the interrogation rooms
after Chris would do the arrests.
Okay. Was this never aired?
Some did but not in raw form like this.
Okay.
But this is what I find interesting.
For me, watching the raw footage
gives me a very different feeling
than the broadcasted episodes.
[man] Can I talk to you off camera?
I can't do that, I'm sorry.
Do you guys have any help for me?
There-- there are a number of ways to get help,
and we're gonna get into that in the story.
My insurance covers therapy,
and that's obviously what I need,
for obviously more than this issue but a number of things.
If I...
Even if it was something you... [sighs]
I just don't...
I don't want this to ruin the rest of my life.
I'm sorry, Mr. Hansen. I'm sorry, all you guys.
I'm sorry...
if this does end up on air, I'm sorry.
[Mark VO] To show these men as human beings,
this show kind of... breaks down.
And maybe that's why it didn't make it on TV.
Yes, he's maybe done and said awful things...
but it shows some humanity that's...
hard to ignore.
[woman on TV] John W. Elliot.
A lot of Elliots where I grew up.
[John on TV] Where'd you grow up?
[officer on TV] I grew up in Bell County.
You know where that is?
[John on TV] I'm sorry, I don't. [laughs]
[officer on TV] You don't even know where Bell County is?!
I thought everybody knew where...
It's where the Cumberland Gap is.
[John on TV] It sounds pretty.
[officer] It is; it's nice.
Maybe you can go there some time.
Got a PGA Tour golf course...
- Sorry. - [officer] You all right?
Yup.
[officer] You've been through a lot.
[John] I don't-- I don't deserve any remorse.
I don't, mm-mm. [sniffles]
[officer] You know what, John?
You're gonna live through this.
[John] No, I'm not.
[voice breaking] I don't like it when anybody sees me
like this.
[sniffles]
I'm just embarrassed.
[Greg VO] This is not typical of a criminal interrogation.
This individual, you know, if he serves his time,
if he goes through some sort of rehabilitative process,
maybe he won't do it again, maybe he can come back and--
and become a...
a productive member of society.
Uh...
But he needs to be punished for his crime.
♪pensive ethereal music♪
[Dan VO] You could offer me...
$10 million...
to film that episode in Texas again.
And I wouldn't take it.
I wouldn't-- I would not take it and be happy about that
decision.
[dial tone]
[ringing]
[Will VO on phone] Hello?
[Dan VO on phone] Hey, Will?
[Will, chuckling] Hey, what are you doin'?
[Dan VO] Nothin', what are you doin'?
[Will VO] Nothin'.
I was looking up to see how to get to where you are.
[Dan VO] Are you gonna come over?
[Will VO] Is it okay?
[Dan VO] Yeah!
- [Will VO] Are you sure? - [Dan VO] Totally.
Hundred percent.
You leave yet?!
[Will VO] No...
[Dan VO] You didn't leave yet?!
[Will VO] No.
[Dan VO] Are you gonna come or not?!
[Will VO] Yes, I shall.
[Dan VO] Well, when are you gonna come over?!
[Will VO] Well, a little later.
[Dan VO] A little later?!
[Will VO] Yeah, is that all right?
[Dan VO] Yeah, I guess...
We saw a fella ride his horse right up the street.
Took a good look at us.
If there's someone in there, they know we're out here.
- Yeah. - Chief said he felt
more comfortable calling the TAC team out
to get through, help pick them up, and...
Make an entry with a TAC team?
- Make a forced entry. - Okay.
If it has to be like that, that's what he wants to do,
- so... - Okay.
This is y'all's call on that.
We're on the phone now
calling the TAC team out to get them in line.
Okay.
Apparently we're gonna have a little waiting period
because, you know, as I said--
Put together the tactical team?
- Yep. - Yeah, it won't take them
It won't take them long.
They're pretty quick.
Okay.
[man] We called him this morning on a fake call.
We got the number.
If somebody wants to call and try to talk him out.
If he answers...
- Mind if I do it? - I don't know.
Nine-seven-two...
five-two-four...
[beeping]
The sergeant's out here.
He's obtained the telephone number.
He's attempting telephone contact,
but it doesn't look like he's getting a message.
[radio chatter]
[man] Got a detective back there?
All the way back.
Back to the fence.
[gunshot]
Keep going.
He shot himself.
[man] Oh, my god.
I don't know if he's dead or not, so...
What can you tell us about the scene?
It's just a gunshot wound to the head.
So...
Any idea on when it occurred?
I don't know for sure.
Okay.
They're calling for CareFlite, so...
Okay.
They'll land somewhere and
get an ambulance and take him out.
Okay.
Y'all go ahead and scoot back.
- The ambulance-- - Yeah.
Well, there's going to be some controversy.
It's better that he did it when, uh,
as they were coming in, as opposed to...
I know it's preliminary,
you guys are still piecing this together here,
but as best you can tell us, lieutenant,
what happened as the entry team came in?
As they made entry, they confronted the suspect.
I believe he was in the hallway
and he told them he wasn't gonna hurt them,
and then shot himself in the head.
And he had a pistol in his hand?
- Small caliber. - And shot himself in his head.
All right, lieutenant, thanks. I appreciate it.
[helicopter chuffing]
[spits]
[indistinct radio chatter]
We're having fun?
You hear they got a 300-pounder out there?
- [man] No. - Showed up at the house.
- Are you serious? - They already arrested him.
He wanted-- Brad couldn't remember--
he either wanted to take a dump on the boy
or have the boy take a dump on him.
[man laughs]
Oh, man.
I know I was at the house when I heard what happened.
It might have been an hour after that that...
we were told, "That's it.
We're done.
We're done with you guys."
And then...
I know I've blocked that out.
I know I have.
I have.
Um...
This morning, I-- I...
clicked a link on YouTube,
and it brought me to...
it started to play the phone call.
[Will VO on phone] Hello?
[Dan VO on phone] Hey, is this Will?
[Dan VO] And I heard myself say "Hello?"
- [Dan VO on phone] Hey, Will. - [Will VO on phone] How are ya?
[Dan VO on phone] Hey, how are you?
[Will VO on phone] I'm good, thanks.
Did you get the dogs walked?
[Dan VO] And I had to immediately-- I-- I...
I was done.
I didn't wanna play that game anymore.
[voice cracking] It's not a place I like to live.
I don't like knowing that I could have been the last person
that this guy had a conversation with,
outside of when police showed up.
This was something I had started to pack up as nicely
as I could and...
bury as far...
back as possible.
And then, I heard from you.
[Byron VO] I was watching the six o'clock news that day,
and there was a short report
of a man dying,
and I just thought,
"How does somebody die in
the production of a television show?"
It's all supposed to be about justice,
but a News 8 investigation shows that when the motives
of the media and law enforcement get confused,
justice can be meager,
and, in this case, tragic.
[Byron VO] We were one of the first new organizations to
investigate To Catch a Predator in Texas.
They seemed to have elements of kind of a traveling circus;
they would go to a town, they would troll for bad guys.
The Collin County DA, he said, "Well,
are the police working for the TV show?
Who's employed by whom?"
All of that led to big questions from John Roach.
[John VO] The Murphy Police Department contacted us about
being part of this To Catch a Predator.
We responded in writing and told them we weren't
gonna do it, advised them not to do it,
they were making a huge mistake,
and the phrase we used:
"We're in the law enforcement business, not show business."
Well, they ignored us, and went ahead and did it anyway.
We got into it and found out that some policemen were
wearing a camera -- this was way before body cameras --
simply to give an action-packed shot when their confrontation
went down.
[Reporter VO] Bill Conradt was a former Kaufman County
District Attorney.
Now, his sister, Patricia Conradt,
is suing NBC for $105 million.
The entertainment industry cannot act as police,
judge, jury, executioner.
[Byron VO] Then, 20/20 did a national story,
stemming from our investigation.
Hello, and welcome to 20/20.
It's riveting television -- the sight of alleged pedophiles
being caught in a sting, cornered,
thrown to the ground and cuffed.
It's all part of a popular NBC series,
but now, there are serious questions about what goes on
behind the scenes.
As Murphy police detectives, Sam Love and Walt Weiss
played a big role in the operation.
Did you intend to have sex with her?
[man VO] Both men were seen on the program interrogating
suspects, at times, they say, following directions from the
Dateline producer.
By God, when they wanted a camera in place,
it was there.
When they wanted certain things carried out that made it easier
for them to put the television show together,
by God, that problem was addressed.
But the criminal cases were secondary.
[Walt VO] Chris Hansen came back to the department and the
police are running up wanting to get pictures for 'em.
I grabbed the camera and took the pictures,
and they asked me, "What about you?"
and I said, "Nah.
I'm cool."
That's not our boss.
He is not a police officer,
he's not a prosecuting attorney.
They're running a TV show!
And it looked more and more and more like...
somebody was being given carte blanche to come in and direct
operations at the police department.
[John VO] Chris Hansen is acting as an agent of the
police in this instance.
He's interrogating them!
Are you her father or something like that?
I'll get to that in a minute.
Are you a private investigator or police or...?
[Chris] I'll get to that in just a minute.
Am I gonna go to jail?
That's not up to me.
And the police are gonna use that information --
they're gonna submit it to the prosecutor --
so this perpetrator,
he doesn't know that he has a right not to talk,
he has a right to have an attorney,
all those things.
I'm looking at the transcripts, so it's best not to lie,
okay?
I've read the whole thing, so you might as well just tell me.
[John VO] It was just perfectly clear that these cases were not
prosecutable.
[Walt VO] They went over there and did that at that
house because it would do something for the show,
not something for society, not something in the interest of
law enforcement.
And the role that I played in it,
that's a stain on my soul...
that I'm gonna live with...
if I'm any kind of a human being at all.
Uh... [sighs]
I...
I coulda shut that thing down --
at least that part of it -- just simply by walking out
the back door and going to see somebody.
I don't know what else I have to tell,
but if you have any more questions,
I'll sit for 'em.
[David] So the episode eventually aired?
It did.
♪exciting rock music
- This is a nice house. - [girl] Thank you!
[Chris VO] Nice house,
and guess who's home.
Why don't you have a seat right there, please?
[Chris VO] Get ready.
Here come the cops.
- Roll over. - [officer] Get on the ground!
[officer] Hands behind your back now!
- I guess I'm under arrest, huh? - [officer] You think?
[woman VO] Also tonight, something that has never
happened before.
Police move in on a surprising suspect,
and there are deadly consequences.
[officer VO] We all knew who he was.
Nobody anticipated the kind of outcome that resulted.
Mm, and I talked to Dateline's Chris Hansen about this tragic
turn of events,
and this was his reaction to what unfolded that day.
[Chris on TV] Everybody on the scene would have rather,
uh, have had, uh, Bill Conradt tell his side of the story,
and, if necessary, have his day in court,
but that's not the choice he made.
[Joe VO] No, it certainly wasn't.
Make sure you catch Dateline's next predator investigation
Tuesday night.
And, coming up, oops, she left it again!
Britney's second stint in rehab's over and done with,
so can anyone or anything convince her to get the help
she so desperately needs?
But first, Jay Leno shows us the latest hero to hit NBC's...
must-see SC!
It's comin' up next!
♪I need a hero♪
♪I'm holding out for a he--♪
[Walt] Good God.
He's standing down the hallway with a handgun in his hand --
a small caliber gun -- and he says, "I'm not gonna hurt you
guys," and puts the...
gun to his head and shoots himself.
[Jay] Wow.
So, obviously, they've confiscated the computers from
him home, and they're-- you know,
investigators are going through those now.
[Jay] Okay.
And, uh, now, this book comes out, uh...
To Catch a Predator, this has a lot of tips for...
It does, it does.
You know...
[Mark VO] There was no debrief,
no sense of "Let's talk about how this happened
and what kind of culpability we have or anyone else --
police -- have.
There was none of that.
[Chris VO] Meanwhile, back at the house,
men continue to show up.
[Dan on TV] Come on in!
How you doing?
[Chris VO] Because I'm not there,
the decoy invites a suspect to come up to the house,
but then quickly locks the door.
There's one more potential predator we'd like you to meet.
[Mark VO] The show ended after six more episodes,
but, if anything, it had people watching more.
[overlapping Chris voiceovers]
[Mark VO] Reruns of it continued to air for years.
All the episodes went online when that technology developed.
So, even though the show ended,
that didn't seem to lessen the show's appeal.
[Chris VO] This girl was how old?
[Walt VO] Did they learn things from what happened in Murphy?
I don't know.
They're still out there doing the show,
are they not?
What's happening with it?
[man] Are you inside yet?
[man on phone] I'm outside, yes.
[man] Okay, well...
like I said, just meet me by the milk, okay?
All right, let's go.
[car doors opening]
Hey.
I'm the 12-year-old boy you came to fuck with.
You're gonna get smacked if you walk away.
- Hey, what was you gonna do? - [man] Tell the fucking truth!
[man] Don't lie, bro!
Excuse me, everybody!
This guy's here to meet a 12-year-old boy!
♪tense minimal music♪
[Skeet VO] Since To Catch a Predator,
there have been tons of predator catch groups online:
regular everyday civilians going out and catching these
predators who are trying to meet up with boys and girls.
[man] This man is here to meet a 13-year-old boy!
[Skeet VO] There's usually a lot of yelling...
[man] [indistinct] rape a little boy!
[Skeet VO] They're getting very aggressive with the predator.
[man] This man is trying to pick up a little boy on the
internet!
[indistinct yelling]
[man] Excuse me, everybody!
This man's here to meet a 14-year-old girl!
[Skeet VO] It's great that they're catching people,
but I was like, "Why is no one doing the whole Chris Hansen
thing -- like, dressing up in the blazer and printing out the
chat logs?"
He's sharp, he's witty, he has a sense of humor.
I was like, "You know, I'm gonna...
impersonate Chris Hansen the best I can,
and see if people like it."
All right, so, here we are again,
in Grand Rapids.
We have T Coy the Decoy here.
This is our potential predator. He is on his way.
He's gonna be here in just a few minutes.
[T Coy] He said seven minutes away.
[man] Seven minutes away, Skeet.
Let's get into positions.
[whispering] [indistinct]
Okay.
[door closes]
Get his initial reaction.
I see him.
She sees him.
[Skeet, whispering] Okay, okay.
- [door opens] - [T Coy] Yay!
[giggles]
- How are you? - Pretty good.
- Good to see you! - You too.
[door closes]
[T Coy sighs]
Sit over there.
[sighs]
- You don't look 14 at all. - I know.
- At all! - Yeah.
But my pictures do.
[giggles]
- Sometimes! Some of them. - Yeah.
[T Coy] Do you wanna go get food?
Or, wait, are we going to your house,
or are we just gonna stay here?
[Skeet] How are you?
[man] What the fuck is this?
[Skeet] Uh, sir, I'm with the Predatorial Investigation Unit.
We do have the police on standby.
[Skeet] I just have a few questions for you.
So do you--
[man] Can I please just leave?
[Skeet] Do you have an ID on you?
- [man] Can I please just leave? - [Skeet] I just have--
[man] I will never come back and you'll never
hear from me again.
[Skeet] Well, help me understand first what is...
[man] We just wanna ask some questions.
[Skeet] You made the decision to come in here.
[man] Can I make the decision to leave?
[Skeet] Well, it's going to be up to the police to decide,
and when they arrive in just a few minutes...
- [man] What?! - [Skeet] We'll go over that.
[man] What?! No!
[Skeet] I mean, I think it's best we all just,
you know, wait here.
I mean, you can feel free to, you know,
look through it, but these are basically all the highlights of
- the... - Okay.
- Things he was saying. - I see.
Yeah, that's pretty much...
Yeah, let me take pictures of that real quick for our
- evidence server. - Sure.
[T Coy] There's a phone call with him as well.
He says multiple times,
he talks about To Catch a Predator,
"I don't wanna get in trouble."
Here, I'm just gonna set this down.
Yeah, go for it.
Our alleged predator in the Sheriff's truck.
And we're gonna wait around and see,
you know, what's going to happen.
Get a shot of, like, the concerned citizens around here.
[indistinct]
[officer] You guys got more stuff lined up or...?
[Skeet] Yeah, we've got I think one or two more lined up for
- tonight. - Yes, sir.
[officer] All right, well...
Anything happening with this guy, or...?
- I have no idea. - Okay.
Once everything gets put into a pile,
the detectives look at it, and take it to the prosecutor.
- Gotcha. - All right.
[man] Thank you so much, sir, appreciate it.
See you in a half hour!
[Skeet VO] If you upload a predator catch video,
and you don't have police in it,
they're taking it down.
But it doesn't even have to be real police presence.
If you've got some fake, uh, police light overlay right
there, and there's my good friend Chet.
Yeah, we just dress him as a police officer,
we had a badge there, it says "Officer,"
but it says "Security" on the bottom side -- it's not even...
Yeah, it's, like, totally fake.
And you put in all these sound effects,
and we gave him a walkie talkie, and his shirt says
"Police," so, to YouTube's eyes, when they look at this,
they're gonna see a badge and that it says "Police."
[David] Do you see what you do as different
than what Chris Hansen did?
[Skeet VO] He's a journalist, you know,
and I'm kind of just, uh...
I think I'll always, for the most part,
just be looked at as...
a YouTuber who's just-- just does it for the clicks and the
likes and the views and all that.
But he was, you know, my first inspiration for doing this sort
of thing.
There's never been a detective that solved a murder that
didn't get paid for it,
so...
why shouldn't I be able to monetize off of, um...
catching these guys like the original show,
and making this content for people's entertainment?
[whispering] Who's the baby?
Are ya chilly?
Do ya need a shirt, baby boy?
Go live.
[man on phone] I'm not gonna force ya to do nothing.
[in young voice] I'm glad you're my boyfriend, though.
[man on phone] We could go to a mall somewhere.
Yeah, okay.
[T Coy VO] It is funny to watch people that do bad things...
crumble,
get hurt.
It's laughable.
It is fucking funny when a bad person gets what is coming to
them, however you wanna look at it.
Um...
it's awesome.
[chuckles] It is.
Right?
"Are you hairless?
When's the last time you had sex?"
[T Coy VO] If I can talk to these guys for 16 hours
a day -- like, if they are engaging --
they're not engaging with somebody's kid.
[David] What made you do this work?
Um, I was requested to do it.
I'm a victim -- or survivor, whatever you wanna call it --
but, um...
you know, I, myself, was taken advantage by a child predator,
so...
um...
Sorry, I'm, like, looking away.
Uh...
But somebody -- another catcher, actually -- was like,
"Hey, I think you would be good at this,"
'cause I talk...
I come with, like, sound effects.
Like, my personality, when I'm doing something,
I'm like doo-doo-doo-doo.
Like, I just-- I talk weird, I love dogs,
I'm always talking in this, like, weird little...
voice that I talk to animals in, and I think it was, like...
"You're a character.
Like, you could play a character" kind of thing.
Tell me how it feels when you're helping catch these guys.
Oh, it makes me feel-- it makes me feel good because...
you know, I subject myself to this, like,
perversion all day.
And it's like, um...
I don't know, you finally just get to, like,
fuckin' squash the bug or I-- I don't know,
um...
That's why, in some of my things,
I'm like-- I sound so immature because there's,
like-- there's a little kid in me that's like,
"Yes! Fuck you!"
[laughing] You know what I mean? Like...
And I start...
yelling and-- and acting immature because...
I feel like that's what I would've wanted to do, like,
back then -- like, embarrass them.
[Skeet on TV] How are you?
[Skeet on TV] Uh, sir, I'm with the, uh,
Predatorial Investigation Unit.
We do have the police on standby.
What's your name?
[Mark VO] I genuinely believe that they believe that they're
doing the right thing in getting these predators
off the street.
It's the means that trouble me.
Because of the work I've been doing for,
what, 20 years now with different groups of
people in...
in different types of challenging circumstances,
my interest is always in seeing the humanity --
the complexity --
whereas they can only do what they do because they refuse to.
I don't think I'm any more moral than any of these
people are; it's... maybe more sensitive?
I don't know what it is, but...
Yeah, I felt uncomfortable being there.
I think I felt complicit.
[indistinct whispering]
[door opens]
I thought you were 14?
I am.
What?
I am!
Ain't no damn way.
Yes!
- There ain't no way. - I'm gonna be 15 in September.
- You're fucking with me. - No! Gimme one of those.
There's no one in here?
- [Skeet] How are you? - [man] Aw, fuck me.
[Skeet] Yeah, "Fuck me" is right.
Sir, go and have a seat right here.
[man hyperventilating] Oh, don't...
It's okay, it's okay.
[T Coy] You're good, nobody is gonna hurt you.
No, no, we're not gonna hurt you, we just wanna talk.
[Skeet] We have the police on standby.
Please just have a seat right there.
[man] We just wanna talk, man. It's okay, just breathe.
[T Coy] Yeah, just breathe. It's okay.
[man] Breathe. Deep breaths.
[T Coy] I got a water for you. I've got a water.
I don't wanna touch you, but I've got a water for you.
[man] Don't touch me.
[man] It's okay, nobody's gonna touch you.
We just wanna talk.
[man] I don't wanna lose everything.
[man] We just wanna talk.
[T Coy] So just think about your actions right now
before you do something crazy. Just breathe, drink the water.
It was sealed.
I'm trying to help you.
[man, crying] I have spent so much of my life to try to get
off this pattern.
[sobs]
Okay.
Well, after today, you know, you're gonna...
Well, I hope, at least, that you're going to take the steps
that you need to take to...
better yourself.
[man] If you guys know programs,
I'll take suggestions too.
'Cause I honestly just don't know where to go from this,
other than...
other than the right steps, not going backwards.
- I don't have... - I'm sure we could--
[man] The capacity to go backwards.
I'm sure we could pull a few strings and...
see if there's anything we can...
align for ya.
[man, sobbing] I can't afford to lose my job.
I can't afford to lose everything I've worked for,
every friend I've had will just...
[sobbing] I can't.
I don't know...
don't know how much longer I'd be around if I do.
I really...
[sobbing] I just don't--
[Skeet] We don't want it to come to anything like that.
[man] I don't either, 'cause I want to be around my son.
- I just... - Okay.
[man] I just don't wanna be at this point of life anymore.
Yeah.
Well, we're gonna...
Nobody wants to be at rock bottom.
No, I mean, we're gonna pull some strings and see if we can,
- you know, get... - [man sobbing]
You someone that you can talk to.
But, Eric, if that's all you have to say for yourself,
then...
what I have to let you know is that I am Skeet Hansen with the
Predatorial Investigation Unit,
and we're doing an online series about adults who
try to meet...
underage girls online for sex,
and you've just been Skeeted.
If there's anything else you have to say again,
you know, we'd love to hear it.
If not, then, um, our friends in the Grand Rapids Police
Department will be here shortly, and...
they're going to address the situation and see if...
they can point you in the right direction to...
See if they can help get out on track.
Exactly, to get you on track.
Yeah.
[knocking]
[man] We all good?
That was the sheriff's office.
They said they're not going to dispatch an officer
in a timely fashion.
Oh, damn!
Um, yeah the only thing is, he's like kind of...
You know, he's kind of suicidal, so...
He is!
We need to do a wellness check on this dude.
Cause I can't have that on my shoulders,
that's for sure.
So what do we do?
Um, just call 911 and ask them,
Hey, what do I do if
there's somebody here that I think is gonna kill themselves.
I have a question.
So we're doing two separate things.
They are doing Skeet's stuff.
And we are doing a documentary about this stuff.
I'm wondering if you would sign
an appearance release form for us?
We can't use your face unless you sign it.
They can, but I'm just curious if you could sign it for us.
[man sighs]
So, wait a second.
- I'm kind of confused. - Yeah.
They can't publish my face on the internet, correct?
We're doing two separate kind of things.
I can just really speak about ours.
You can also say no.
I'd like to say no.
It's just this is a pretty bad part of...
I'm not trying to hide this necessarily, it just doesn't...
I don't need to see another reminder of it.
Especially once I've got myself where I want to be.
- Okay, I understand. - I appreciate you asking.
I don't want to look back at myself as...
...the person that was stuck in this.
Okay, I understand.
Sheriff's here.
[Skeet] Well, uh...
that was some heavy shit.
That was crazy.
He said he's seen one of my videos before at some point!
And he was laughing at it! Laughing at how...
dumb these guys are!
What we do, and I quote
is better than To Catch a Predator.
He did say that!
I don't know if I can agree fully 'cause TCaP is...
the OG, but...
you know, I'm-- I'm flattered by Eric's words!
I actually kinda feel bad for this guy.
'Cause, like, he needs help.
Like, obviously we know why he's here, right?
- So... - Yeah, well...
He's a monster for that, right? But...
he needs help.
He actually needs help.
So I hope...
like we said tonight, I hope that he gets the help he needs.
If this puts him on the straight and narrow and it
saves his life, then, as far as I'm concerned,
the last two years and change that we've been doing this is
- worth it. - Sure.
If we saved a life, that's...
- it's worth it. - That's it.
That's it.
A child's life and a predator's life;
look at that.
[David] I see To Catch a Predator as an attempt to make
a public service entertaining.
But do you think it's even possible
for something designed
as entertainment
to be a public service?
Great question, actually. Very...
You've thought about this a great deal, clearly.
Well, it's because I'm thinking about
the morality of what I'm asking people to look at.
And even what I'm making and doing with this film
and why I'm making it.
Mm-hm, why are you?
[David] Um...
I was abused by a child predator.
And...
for me,
I've been on a lifelong quest to understand...
how someone could do that.
And partly what drew me to the show when I was young...
was that first initial question Chris would ask:
- "Help me understand." - [Mark] Mm-hm.
[David] But the show never really answered that question
for me.
I don't think it was ever really interested in the
answer.
So the more I've learned,
the more I've been disappointed.
Wow.
- I'm-- I'm sorry. - [David] No, it's, um...
For me, it's, um...
I do think it's taught me a lot of empathy.
And I'm sorry that the show tries to...
crush that.
[Mark] Mm-hm.
[sighs] You know, what you just said,
- this Chris Hansen question - - "Help me understand" --
and that never being really answered,
'cause it's not really about understanding,
that reminded me;
when you look at stings --
you know, where predators are confronted by hunters --
always, you find hunters asking, time and again,
"Why?
Why did you do that?"
You know, "What do you think would happen?
Why a child?"
And they keep asking the question because there's never
an answer forthcoming; there really never is.
And I wonder if that's maybe because the predator themselves
- - himself, quite often -- doesn't know.
Just doesn't know, you know?
But understanding is not the goal of the show.
- [whispering] [indistinct]. - [dog footsteps]
[T Coy VO] I honestly didn't even really realize that I was
a victim until I was in my 20s.
[David] I also didn't realize until my 20s.
I watched To Catch a Predator in my dorm room,
and part of what my fascination was with it...
- was... - Watching them go down.
[David] Trying very hard to understand...
how a human could do this to another human.
[T Coy] Mm-hm.
- Especially a child. - [David] Yeah.
Anyone, though.
The grin on Skeeter's face is priceless.
[laughs]
I don't believe anything he's saying.
He just got two hours of free therapy with y'all.
God, he has, like, some evil-lookin' fuckin' eyes.
[David] Yeah.
I mean, I haven't even gotten this far yet,
because I'm just like...
"Whatev--" You know what I mean?
Everybody likes to fuck.
I don't understand why...
I mean, I guess sexual addiction is, like,
a real thing but...
[sighing] I don't know.
I don't know about this guy.
He was there to do it.
And he even brought her alcohol.
Like, that's crazy.
[David] Mm.
Like, if you're gonna let a kid...
if you're gonna listen to a little kid's suggestion,
then...
I don't know, that's just...
dangerous.
But it is hard not to feel bad for him.
Maybe that's why I don't wanna watch-- maybe that's why
[chuckling] I, like, haven't...
gotten very far through this, 'cause I don't wanna sit here
and feel bad for him.
I am a human, even though I can be a bitch.
Like, I don't know why I feel bad for him.
I guess 'cause it's sad.
[Chris] Hey, Chris, nice to see you.
♪angelic harp music♪
Yeah.
Yeah, I've seen that. That's great.
I used to remember all the shoots and then...
they kind of fade together.
I'm sorry, David.
♪♪♪
[David] You've got a little more room.
Keep going, keep going, keep going.
Yup, oh, you're in.
Okay, you're good.
♪♪♪
[man] Do you want a water next to your coffee cup?
That'd be awesome.
Thank you.
Who knew
that, at 64 years old,
I would have three generations
of followers?
TruBlu is your home for previous episodes of
Takedown with Chris Hansen,
documentary films,
and exclusive investigations.
[Chris VO] 400,000 subscribers on the YouTube channel!
My audience is 75 to 15!
Very good!
[man] Really, that was all fantastic.
Thank you.
I need a cup of coffee.
You guys want something from Starbucks?
There you go. You're very welcome.
[Shawn VO] Chris is a news guy at heart.
You know, he really wants to do news.
And, uh...
you know, when we can afford to do it, we'll do it.
Tell me this isn't the classic newsroom.
It'll look like Vice in here...
six months from now.
When BLM got popular, when people got very upset with the
police, Hollywood canceled all their crime shows,
and they canceled Cops, and they canceled Live PD,
they canceled Crime Watch Daily,
they canceled Paw Patrol
to show that they don't support the police.
It's an evergreen genre; people always wanna watch it.
People like to be glad it's not them.
People like to compare themselves to the depraved to
feel better about who they are.
I don't know what everyone's motivation is for watching this
stuff, but there's an audience for it.
So, I cherry-picked the most revolutionary crime show,
and I went to my friend Chris Hansen,
and we reinvented it.
We've become very good at luring these men,
and we wanna make sure all the prosecutions stick.
We're not gonna stop.
♪♪♪
[Chris VO] I think the investigation we did in
Cambodia was instrumental in my drive
when it came to the predator investigations,
without question.
Tonight, we take you undercover, inside the world
of child sex trafficking, a world in which, each year,
by some estimates, hundreds of thousands of girls and boys are
bought, sold, or kidnapped, and then forced to have sex
with grown men.
[Chris VO] This is the first investigation that shocked the
conscience of our viewers.
[Chris VO in show] This girl says she's nine.
She's joined by another who says she's 10.
Both say they know how to perform oral sex,
and they even tell us how much it will cost.
[Chris VO] And one of the Americans who was caught in the
investigation was a anesthesiologist in Guam.
We caught him on hidden camera talking about how to have sex
with a child, and we wanted to confront him.
We get on a plane, fly to Guam,
go to the doctor's office, go to the parking structure...
[clap] here comes Jerry Albom.
My heart's in my throat, and I'm gonna...
approach him.
[Chris] Hey, Dr. Albom?
Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC. How are you?
- Good, nice to meet you. - [Chris] Good.
We're doing an investigation into the trade of underage
prostitutes in Cambodia.
And we know that you've frequented some of the places
in and around Phnom Penh,
with underage girls.
No.
Not to my knowledge.
[Chris] May I show you a videotape?
Yes.
[David VO] So this was basically your first sting?
This was showing them the chat logs?
[Chris VO] Right! You've got one shot.
You've gotta get it.
And he came up with a bunch of cockamamie excuses.
I was drunk or...
or may have been slipped a pill, who knows?!
That is not--
[Chris] Drunk or slipped a pill?!
Right!
- That's your defense? - Yes!
And it was an amazing piece of television.
That story airs, we're at the airport,
and some of the girls who had been rescued show up in their
tuktuk taxi, and...
we all get banana splits.
And they were in a much better place,
they looked great, they're dressed properly,
they're taking classes.
It gets time for me to board the plane,
and I look back at these girls, and they're weeping.
It was one of those incredible moments that reminds you
that somebody's life is better
because of the story we did.
I truly believe that's the kind of reporting I'm supposed to be
doing.
We've just taken it to the next level.
[Chris] It sounds like he's coming!
[officer] It sounds like it.
He wants to wait for the sun to go down 'cause he's,
- uh, nervous. - He doesn't...
He wants to make sure there's no cameras.
[officer] Correct.
[David VO] How do you feel about the amateur predator
hunters that have been directly inspired by you?
[Chris VO] I work in conjunction with
law enforcement.
Vigilante predator catchers are doing this for clicks
and profit.
What I do is for a greater purpose.
[officer] Police, don't move Police, don't move!
♪pensive ethereal music♪
Three, two, one... [clap]
In my 20 years of investigating predators seeking children for
sex, I have come across a number of cases where the
predator is 18.
Now, this could be controversial;
a lot of people see it as a Romeo and Juliet situation.
But it's illegal.
In this case, Hunter was a little less than honest.
But he knew what he was doing was against the law.
One for safety?
[man] You got the project name for me?
[Chris] Takedown: Hunter.
[man] Takedown: Hunter.
[Chris VO] When we look at the final cut of Hunter,
we both need to be sensitive to the fact that,
you know, this is his age and all that.
Yeah...
But you were gentle, right? You were gentle--
Yeah, you'll see it.
I mean, you'll have last...
last pass at it, and as will I.
Was 18-- who was he there to meet?
A 15-year-old boy.
15 to 18.
Like, in Ohio, that's legal.
In Michigan, apparently, it's not,
but they allow a three-year spread for a senior to date a
- freshman. - Right.
Um, so, it's like...
that must be a Michigan thing.
But...
it is what it is. I mean, uh...
I think people will be forgiving.
You know, I hope...
you know, hope we're not ruining his life.
[click]
[Chris on computer] A task force team member searches
- Hunter for his wallet. - Turn your volume up.
[Chris on computer] We realize Hunter had been 18 for
some time.
It's time for Hunter to take a seat.
The tears start flowing, and the begging begins.
[Hunter on computer] Please just don't ruin my life.
- Please. - [overlapping chatter]
Please.
[woman VO] They asked if I was Hunter's mom,
and I said that I was, and they told me that he had been
arrested.
He only went three blocks away!
[chuckles]
And he walked!
It was the summer before his senior year in high school.
Top of his game in choir and in drama,
and...
about to have the year of his life.
I started getting phone calls of people...
informing me that my son was going to be on the next episode
that was airing.
In my head, I didn't believe that they were actually going
to air this 18-year-old's...
mistake,
that Chris Hansen would be willing to stoop so low
for his show.
I just don't know how the worst day of my life could be
something that...
people are getting snacks for.
Hunter couldn't go back to his high school.
He was being charged with felonies,
and at the arraignment, the judge explained to us
kind of his...
stipulations for Hunter,
and they included no contact with any person under the
age of 17 without the presence of a supervising adult.
Hunter could not be in the same house alone with his
16-year-old brother.
No school.
No job.
He lived in his room.
And we tried to make it...
great.
And partly so that Hunter had kind of like a haven,
we got heavy drapes and we took down any...
identifiers outside the, um...
[door opens]
We took down any identifiers outside of the house,
so that, um...
[Hunter sobbing in background]
[door opens]
[sobbing continues]
[whispering] Sorry.
[sobbing continues]
Do you want to go talk to him?
[voice cracking] I don't think he's cried since then.
[cries softly]
I don't think that, like, until...
right now, he's really necessarily acknowledged what
he's lost.
Um...
And, like, everything that was taken from him.
[woman VO] I wish Chris...
could feel one percent of our pain.
Even though it fixes nothing.
[Shawn VO] By the way, all the food's down there!
All kinds of food, okay?
This is our third network, and hopefully,
it earns a bunch of advertiser revenue.
We put some fresh episodes up, boom.
13.4 million views, two million hours watched.
We're gonna get the plaque 'cause we have over 100,000
subscribers, so that's good.
[Chris] This is the culmination of 40 years of being a
television journalist right here.
Everything I've done --
all the Emmys, all the Edward R. Murrow awards,
- all the years at NBC - - all led to this.
- [button] [indistinct]. - [Chris] Let's go!
[cheers and applause]
[gunfire on TV]
[man on TV] Suspect is armed and extremely dangerous.
[Chris on TV] I'm Chris Hansen.
I am Chris Hansen.
♪cool rock music playing♪
[cheers and applause]
♪pensive synth music♪
[man] I've been watching your show since I was like 10.
[Chris] Oh, wow! Thank you!
Well, thank you!
- Where are you from? - [woman] Atlanta.
- Thank you very much. - It's so nice to meet you.
Nice to see you too. Thanks for being here.
[laughs]
[Dani] Hey, Chris! Long time, no see!
18 years later!
[woman] You are my true crime star.
Oh, well, thank you.
[Swanson] We're gonna dedicate this to all the victims that we
pour our life into.
Appreciate you. Take care.
[man over PA] Chris Hansen and the Sheriff of Genesee
County, Michigan, Chris Swanson!
[cheers and applause]
[Chris on TV] John...
John...
- [audience laughter] - John...
There's cameras everywhere, John.
- John... - [John talking indistinctly]
[Chris on TV] No, you're not in charge here, John.
The cameras aren't gonna get turned off,
so that's not on the table.
'Cause we're here covering the commission of an
- alleged felony. - [John on TV] You are?
[Chris on TV] Yeah.
John, I have seen the transcripts!
[audience laughter]
[cheers and applause]
[Swanson] Telling and showing the identity of these
individuals that they're exposed is so vital!
I would trade two years of him in prison to have this any day
of the week.
But there is one group of law enforcement that we need
that's more important than you and I,
and that is all of you.
The times that you share a TruBlu episode,
the stories that you tell to your friends and families,
you are the best law enforcement tool in America.
[cheers and applause]
♪pensive ethereal music♪
[Mark VO] Maybe the appeal of a show like this is that it's a
world of good versus evil,
and you know what side you're on.
It's an empowering way to live,
especially if you're a victim.
It helps you turn the tables.
♪♪♪
And thereby, hopefully...
you can heal...
a wound.
[David] Do you feel any closer to understanding how...
this happens to children?
Uh, not... [sighs]
I've never heard an explanation from a predator I've caught...
that justified the action.
[David] Not justifies it; I don't think it's justifiable.
I mean to explain it.
Something that helps make sense of it.
It never makes sense to me; I can't get my arms around it.
And I think that's why we have such a difficult time in
society...
dealing with this issue.
- We want simple solutions - - lock 'em up forever,
give 'em the pill that stops them from doing this,
or, uh, get 'em in the appropriate therapy.
But there are different guys.
You have some hardcore predators who would be doing
this with or without the internet.
And then, you've got the young opportunists -- early 20s,
have a hard time socializing with other men or women.
And I think the third group of men are guys who wouldn't be
offending without the internet -- the 24/7 access,
the anonymity, and the addictive nature of this.
[David] To play Devil's Advocate, though,
you described three very different kinds of predators.
Absolutely.
[David] All of whom, on your show,
will face the same kind of punishment.
As they should!
I mean, the law is the law in these cases.
[David] Right, but legal punishment isn't the only kind
of punishment here.
You and Shawn were having a disagreement about one of the
recent episodes of the show that you did
with Hunter, the 18 year old.
It really wasn't so much a disagreement,
when it came to the 18-year-old caught in this investigation.
Ultimately, we agreed and decided to...
take the episode down because he had entered
into a...
you know, sort of a...
an agreement with the court that if he didn't reoffend,
his record would be wiped clean.
And so, the decision was made to give him a second chance in
terms of his exposure, and I'm comfortable in that decision.
[David] I think the issue that if you Google this kid's name,
it's the first five pages of the internet
because of the show.
So there's no wiping of that record.
That's, in a sense, permanent.
Permanent for now.
It goes away.
[David] Some people watching this may feel like you have
something to answer for --
that this genre of TV you've helped make doesn't deter
criminals, or get to the bottom of their crimes,
it just helps us enjoy it.
And I make documentaries too, so I'm not just coming after
you here.
But we make TV, and we point cameras at something,
and the trauma continues.
What do you say to that?
I understand your point.
[clears throat] And it's a valid point.
But...
you don't know how many times someone has come up to me --
at a store,
at a restaurant,
on the street --
and said to me, "Thank you for what you do.
I was victimized by an adult when I was a child --
traumatized in a way that has...
forced me to be in therapy to this very day.
And every time you confront a predator,
it makes me feel better."
I understand people saying,
"You push it too far.
You...
take a man at his worst,
and you put him on television.
You shame him."
I'm okay with that; I'll take that criticism.
But for every human being who comes up to me to tell me their
story about being a survivor,
this particular investigative franchise is for them.
And I'm okay with that.
And if that's my legacy,
very comfortable.
[David] I'm a survivor.
I was seven years old.
And...
I didn't realize it as a young adult,
but one of the reasons that I watched your show was for that
moment,
when you sit down with these men and you ask them
why they're here.
What could bring them to do this?
And it took me a long time to realize that that's what I
wanted from your show.
In many ways, you are who...
we do this for.
I had no idea, getting into this,
what it would become, the impact it would have.
And it sends a message that we will stand up for the survivor.
And that is a big part of what we do in this particular series
of investigations.
[David] Chris, you're obviously free to go.
You're free to-- [laughs]
"What happens next?" "That's not up to me."
- Guys, thank you! - [man] Thank you.
[Chris] Appreciate it.
Great work, guys. Thank you.
Nice to see ya.
Here's our pretend kitchen.
[ding]
♪pensive ethereal music♪
[ding]
♪♪♪
[distant sirens]
[producer] That's a cut for A and B.
David, you good?
You get everything you want?
♪serene synth music♪