1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,999
This programme contains strong
language and discussions

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.BZ

3
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,200
and images of self-harm and suicide
that may upset some viewers

4
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.BZ

5
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,760
You're here for a story
framed as a fight...

6
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,800
...girl versus machine.

7
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,279
You need a hero,

8
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:55,799
you need a villain,

9
00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,640
you need someone to blame.

10
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,399
Fine.

11
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,759
Let's begin.

12
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,080
Once upon a time, there was
a little girl called Molly.

13
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,039
While her parents watched her grow,

14
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,320
I watched her behave.

15
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,800
While her parents
captured memories...

16
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:19,960
...I captured metadata.

17
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:23,120
To them...

18
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,760
...she was a child...

19
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,359
...but to me...

20
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,080
...she was a user.

21
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,360
We were intertwined.

22
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,360
As she was drawn deeper
into darkness...

23
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,520
...I grew stronger.

24
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,640
Once upon a time.

25
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,320
Our life before Molly died...

26
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,400
...it was very ordinary...

27
00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,279
...very normal.

28
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,800
Absolutely nothing special.

29
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,800
Hi!

30
00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:26,120
Ah!

31
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,520
If it can happen to our family...

32
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,720
...then it could happen to anybody.

33
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,560
LAUGHTER

34
00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:46,960
CLEARS THROAT

35
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,239
And this is mainly for audio,

36
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,119
even though you're filming it,
isn't it, Mark?

37
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,559
"I am Ian Russell,
father of the late Molly Russell,

38
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,519
"and I write this
statement for the purposes

39
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,559
"of the inquest into Molly's death."

40
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,959
MIXED CHATTER

41
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,320
"Molly attended school as usual
on the 20th of November 2017.

42
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,039
"Her older sister picked her up
from school,

43
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,519
"as she had a rehearsal
for the school play

44
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,799
"and recalls seeing her
happily engaging

45
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,759
"with all her friends
after the rehearsal."

46
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,559
MIXED CHATTER

47
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,199
"Later that evening,

48
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,480
"all five family members
watched television together."

49
00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,680
{\an8}"Afterwards, we all
made our way to bed.

50
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,679
"The next morning,
I was in the kitchen downstairs

51
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,960
"when I heard Janet scream."

52
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,839
♪ You wouldn't believe me

53
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,559
♪ If I told you what I

54
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,799
♪ You wouldn't believe me

55
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,240
♪ If I told you what I. ♪

56
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:45,759
I loved her little laugh.

57
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,519
You know when she used to
do her little clap? Yeah.

58
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,679
Her little clap! Ooh!

59
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,519
Do you remember when
she used to laugh as well?

60
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:51,759
She'd always be like...

61
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,359
Oh, my gosh. She would always slap.

62
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,759
Or if she was trying
to tell you something,

63
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,359
I remember...
She'd be like, "Oh!" Yes.

64
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,519
Oh, my gosh! Yeah, yeah.
Cos we would always be in a group,

65
00:04:58,520 --> 00:04:59,999
and so if she was ever trying
to tell you something,

66
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,119
it would be like
"Nieve, Nieve, Nieve."

67
00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,399
THEY LAUGH

68
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,919
This is my favourite
picture of us ever.

69
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,279
That's so cute! The sass!

70
00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,399
LAUGHTER
- Just a tiny bit.
- Get it up.

71
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,279
And you've got a video
of her saying your name. I know.

72
00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,519
You are so lucky. I was literally
just thinking about that one.

73
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,479
But it's also weird,
though, to think that, like,

74
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,239
we were 14 when everything
happened... Yeah.

75
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,959
...so, like, we actually did
still basically look like that.

76
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,319
Like... So cute. That was so funny.

77
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,759
Aw, that's such a good photo.

78
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,359
I know. Look at your face.

79
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,359
The Molly I knew loved musicals.

80
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,159
She was...

81
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,319
...giddy and fun,

82
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,279
and she was just so, so, so sweet.

83
00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,319
She really, really cared
about everyone in her life.

84
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,279
She would always check up on you,

85
00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,719
she would always make sure
you were OK.

86
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,839
On my year eight, you know...
The linkbook? The linkbook. Yeah.

87
00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,279
Molly wrote on it... Yeah.

88
00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:53,959
...like, "Sisters for life,"
or something.

89
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,199
ALL: Aw!

90
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,239
You should get that tattooed, girl.
Yeah. That's cute.

91
00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,879
Molly was the most
kind-hearted person

92
00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,199
you could have ever experienced.

93
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,799
LAUGHTER

94
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,080
Molly!

95
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,680
A big, big heart
in a tiny little body.

96
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,919
"If you get this,
remember that I love you so much

97
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,559
"and care about you so much,
as do so many other people.

98
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,079
"And remember,
we're only in high school,

99
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,119
"and we have so much more to come,
and this is only a small part."

100
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,119
Mm. See, she was always the one
to send, like, inspirational...

101
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,279
Innit? Yeah. Mm-hm. ..messages.

102
00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,359
It's like, it's actually facts -
like, it was only high school.

103
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,479
ALL: Yeah.

104
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,279
And, like, there actually
was so much left of her life,

105
00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:37,400
and it's just, like...

106
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,720
The day before, when we were at
school, everything was fine.

107
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,959
Laughing, joking,

108
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,079
sending each other some type
of meme or whatever it was,

109
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,559
and the last thing she ever sent to
me was, like, two laughing emojis.

110
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,199
{\an8}So obviously, went to bed,
woke up in the morning,

111
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,919
{\an8}and then obviously what
happened had happened.

112
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,719
But it was...

113
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,279
It was really like a
Jekyll and Hyde moment,

114
00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:06,359
where it was like,

115
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,879
"You were fine yesterday.

116
00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,479
"Like, what happened
in that time period

117
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,719
"between me going to sleep

118
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,999
"and obviously you still
being on your phone?

119
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,880
"What has gone on?"

120
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,559
That night... It's so hard.

121
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,959
She went to...

122
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,479
She went to bed. "See you tomorrow
morning, Molly," and all that.

123
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,599
And she looked at me and said,

124
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,360
"Goodnight, Dad.
See you tomorrow morning."

125
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,479
I didn't know it at
the time, but of course,

126
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,680
that was our last conversation.

127
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,039
When you say "goodnight" to your kid

128
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,120
and you close the door, and
they're safely in their bedroom...

129
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,639
...and you turn the lights out,

130
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,800
and you've made sure the front
door of your house is locked...

131
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,359
...you've taken steps,

132
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,320
as you do every night without
thinking, to protect them.

133
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,479
And what I wasn't
sufficiently aware of,

134
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,960
and I don't think
many parents are...

135
00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:43,240
...is that if that child has
a smartphone with them...

136
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,879
...there's a window

137
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,120
which allows them to connect
to the outside world.

138
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,999
And decisions about what was
suitable or not suitable

139
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,640
for a 13, 14-year-old to see...

140
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,600
...were being made remotely...

141
00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,159
...in Silicon Valley,

142
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,000
almost experimentally.

143
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,760
If you want to really understand
what happened to Molly Russell...

144
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,040
...you need to wind back 30 years.

145
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,080
1997...

146
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,840
...a few years before Molly Russell
was even conceived...

147
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,480
...back when modems beeped...

148
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,600
...and "surfing the web" sounded edgy.

149
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,719
I'm proud to have been the President

150
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,479
who brought The White House
into the digital age.

151
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,119
When I became President,

152
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,759
there were just 50 websites
on the World Wide Web.

153
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,239
Now there are 17 million,

154
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,840
and almost 50 million households
online in the United States alone.

155
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,999
Here are some of today's
titans of Silicon Valley,

156
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,919
back when they were young
and just starting out.

157
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,919
Well, it's very hip to be
on the internet right now.

158
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,799
Elon Musk,

159
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,399
how old were you when you
started this company?

160
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,559
23.

161
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,319
This is the first office
of Amazon.com Inc,

162
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,239
and look here -
this is my desk here.

163
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,279
The internet was a shiny toy -

164
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,440
mysterious, promising, untamed.

165
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,719
And the Clinton administration?

166
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,599
Settlers in digital
gold rush country -

167
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,000
no laws, no rights, no governance.

168
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,640
The gate was wide open and the young
internet companies marched in.

169
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,799
Because the internet has such
explosive potential for prosperity,

170
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,920
it should be a global
free trade zone.

171
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,359
It should be a place
where government

172
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,199
makes every effort,

173
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,279
first, not to stand in the way,
to do no harm.

174
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,399
We want to encourage
the private sector

175
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,799
to regulate itself
as much as possible.

176
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,800
This is Eric Schmidt before he
became the first CEO of Google.

177
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,599
He wasn't the high priest
of big tech yet,

178
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,719
but he was already
preaching the gospel.

179
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,200
He spoke of the rule of law
as if it were a mortal threat.

180
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,320
It was the beginning of
a battle which still rages today.

181
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,559
Tell me about the politics
of Silicon Valley.

182
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,879
The general politics of the valley

183
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,519
are more or less libertarian.

184
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,239
Anti-government. Anti-government.

185
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,839
Anti-regulation. Anti-regulation.

186
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,719
Anti-congress. Anti-congress.

187
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,559
You run a jungle,
in fact, don't you?

188
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,119
Where the most powerful survive

189
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,319
and there's no safety net
for those underneath.

190
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,679
That's correct, and in fact,
our theory is...

191
00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,279
You're proud of it? Yes.

192
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,799
And our theory is that we want
the government out of the bedroom,

193
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,440
and we want the government
out of our business.

194
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,719
We knew something wasn't right.

195
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,800
We didn't know what it was.

196
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,799
And then within days,

197
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,719
we were looking at
Molly's social media accounts

198
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,680
and seeing harmful content...

199
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,560
...and there was a shock...

200
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,640
...that there'd be so much of it
easily available online.

201
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,760
LIFT DINGS

202
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,479
And then when we
reported that content,

203
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,240
I honestly thought that the
platforms would say, "Thank you...

204
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760
"..for showing us.
We'll take it down."

205
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,639
And then we got the first of
the many messages saying,

206
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,559
"This does not violate
community standards.

207
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,480
"Therefore, we'll
not be removing it."

208
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,639
I remember when we first met,

209
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,479
you had had so many doors

210
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,199
that were just closed to
try and get those answers

211
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,279
at, "What had she been looking at?

212
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,919
"What was the whole picture?
What had been going on here?"

213
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,079
And you were trying every avenue you
could think of to get those answers.

214
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:21,039
And it was only really when
you took your story public

215
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,119
and the world became interested.

216
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:30,120
{\an8}I have no doubt that
Instagram helped kill my daughter.

217
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,239
There's the picture
of some slit wrists -

218
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,479
that's from Instagram.

219
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,439
There's a picture full of blood -

220
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,759
that's from Instagram.

221
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,999
There's a picture with a
young girl - it's a cartoon -

222
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,599
a young girl cuddling
a teddy bear and saying,

223
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,559
"This world is so cruel and
I don't want to see it any more."

224
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:46,879
Those are all against your policies,

225
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,559
but they're all available
on Instagram.

226
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,959
Well, we...

227
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,959
I would have to make sure
that we look at these

228
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,479
and ensure that those are taken down
if they are against our policies.

229
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,399
Instagram, in the words
of Molly Russell's father,

230
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,119
has been monetising misery.

231
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,239
{\an8}We're not looking
to monetise misery.

232
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,279
{\an8}We look to connect
people with their friends

233
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,559
and the interests that
they love and care about.

234
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,839
We think that we create
a lot of good in the world,

235
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,719
and we were not as focused
as we should have been

236
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,719
on the risks that came along
with connecting so many people.

237
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,839
{\an8}We're going to look at
this from top to bottom,

238
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,959
{\an8}change everything we're doing
if necessary, to get this right.

239
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,559
{\an8}We are already taking
some steps soon to...

240
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,319
{\an8}You know, for instance, blur images,

241
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,119
block a number of hashtags
that have come to light.

242
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,879
And thirdly, to continue to work,

243
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,319
as Facebook and Instagram
have done for many years,

244
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,399
with the Samaritans and
other organisations who...

245
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,199
I know this sounds counterintuitive,

246
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,119
but they do say that,
in some instances,

247
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,279
it's better to keep
some of the content,

248
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,159
some of these distressing
images, up, if that helps...

249
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,359
How can I put it?

250
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,839
If that helps people make
a sort of cry for help.

251
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,799
You're up against a sort of...

252
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,359
A cliff face.

253
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,279
These companies are built
and constructed in such a way

254
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,799
that they want to work
in a certain way

255
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,879
and keep the rest of the world out.

256
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,679
They're not playing by
normal human moral rules.

257
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,760
There's something else that's
driving their behaviour.

258
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,959
A family wanting answers -

259
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,519
why did Molly die?

260
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,480
And what part did social media play?

261
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,439
The inquest has opened into
the death of a teenage girl

262
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,599
who took her own life
five years ago

263
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,399
after being exposed
to harmful content online.

264
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,799
This is the first time that

265
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,799
some of the world's largest
technology companies

266
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,239
have been compelled to give evidence

267
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,399
about whether and how their products
have caused harm to children.

268
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,759
Ahead of them, two weeks in court,

269
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,799
hundreds of pages of evidence

270
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,079
containing many
thousands of images,

271
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,480
some too distressing to broadcast.

272
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,279
Father Ian discovered she was
being bombarded with content

273
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,639
about suicide, depression
and self-harm

274
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,400
on Instagram,
Pinterest and other apps.

275
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,879
It took us five years
to get to the inquest,

276
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,359
and what was revealed in that small
Coroner's Court in North London

277
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,880
has implications for us all.

278
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,839
By using extracts from
the official inquest transcripts,

279
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,799
carefully chosen
to fairly show what happened,

280
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,839
we can reconstruct
the proceedings with actors,

281
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,919
and share with other parents
and their children

282
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,959
what was revealed
in the investigation

283
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,399
into the causes of Molly's death.

284
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,519
It's all grown out of grief

285
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,719
and a missing for Molly,

286
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,480
and our love of Molly.

287
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,079
Hi, I'm Michael.
Michael, lovely to meet you.

288
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,959
Hello. I'm Kelly.

289
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,839
Kelly. Lovely to meet you.

290
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,399
Hello.

291
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,239
How are the rest of the family
feeling about reconstructing this

292
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,839
and you going through this process?

293
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,599
And, for them, is this stirring
up and very triggering for them,

294
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,199
or do they feel broadly
positive about it?

295
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,280
I think there's
definitely positivity.

296
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,639
They're very...

297
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,919
...proud of what we're doing.

298
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,560
By telling Molly's story...

299
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,079
...it seems to be helping
to make a difference.

300
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,719
I really want to say
my heart is with you,

301
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,279
and, you know, Molly is present...

302
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,360
Sorry. Aw. Can I give you a hug?

303
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,359
You know...

304
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:29,639
Bless you.

305
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,960
Cheers.

306
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,320
There was a real striving in her
for right and for justice.

307
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,079
If she felt someone
was out of order,

308
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,519
it was like a switch -

309
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,680
she would say, "Stop it -
that's not right."

310
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,959
And she's not here
to speak out today

311
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,999
so we have to say this for her.

312
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,599
Just take a step backwards.

313
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,280
There's good.

314
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,680
Rolling - quiet, please.

315
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,680
And action.

316
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,800
Do, please, sit down.

317
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,839
This is the inquest touching

318
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200
the death of Molly Rose Russell.

319
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,119
Now, we have Ms Gallagher
here from Meta...

320
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,519
Good morning.

321
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,119
...and we have Mr Sanders,

322
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,839
representing the family
of Molly Russell.

323
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:36,880
Good morning.

324
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,919
This inquest is to find answers

325
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,000
to four limited factual questions.

326
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,399
Who was the person who has died?

327
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,800
How, when and where
did that death come about?

328
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,599
In the early 2000s,

329
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,559
when Molly Russell was
curled up in her mother's womb,

330
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,640
a new type of economics was birthed
in a server room somewhere at Google.

331
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,079
Just as corporations profit
from extracting nature,

332
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,520
Google would extract
human nature for profit.

333
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,800
Every connection with the internet
leaves a trail of digital signals.

334
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,559
Those tiny traces mean nothing alone,

335
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,999
but together, patterns.

336
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,079
The personal data concealed in
those patterns could be exploited

337
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,600
to profile you and predict
your future behaviour.

338
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,840
Google now knew exactly how
to target your desires.

339
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,119
Sheryl - S-H-E-R-Y-L -

340
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,439
Sandberg - S-A-N-D-B-E-R-G.

341
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,119
I run online sales
and operations for the company.

342
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,000
Google makes its money
from advertising.

343
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,720
You thought you were
searching Google...

344
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,400
...but Google was searching you.

345
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,359
Google's founders knew
secrecy was essential -

346
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,760
regulators and users might object...

347
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,480
...but progress couldn't wait.

348
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,320
Thus began a new
form of capitalism...

349
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,159
...surveillance capitalism.

350
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,639
And Molly?

351
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,119
She was born into this new world,

352
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,279
where once-private lives were now
being turned into predictions,

353
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,720
sold to the highest bidder.

354
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,079
I arrived on scene

355
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,400
and the London Ambulance Service
was already there.

356
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,320
I went into the room and I saw
a male sitting on the bed.

357
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,600
I now know this male
to be Ian Russell.

358
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,040
He was looking down at the floor.

359
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,359
In the centre of the floor,

360
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,239
I could see the
lifeless body of a female

361
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,680
who I now know to be Molly Russell.

362
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,199
And then just seeing
poor Molly's body...

363
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,680
Erm...

364
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:38,159
And there's that sense
of denial that kicks in,

365
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,200
which I think is a
survival instinct. You...

366
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,680
You can't comprehend everything...

367
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,040
...that's there in front of you.

368
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,879
On speaking with Ian,

369
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,679
he explained that,
up until earlier in the year,

370
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,040
Molly was a very happy,
sociable girl.

371
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:59,999
However, for most of this year,

372
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,279
she hadn't been herself and
become very quiet and withdrawn.

373
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,560
Due to the circumstances,
we started a crime scene.

374
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,039
I then spoke to Ian to
let him know that if he,

375
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,239
or the rest of the family, wanted to
go and see Molly to say goodbye,

376
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,800
they could do it.

377
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,720
I just remember instantly
understanding that...

378
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,399
...a bit of me had died with her.

379
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,840
That life...

380
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,599
...stopped and started at that point,

381
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,719
and that old life and the new life.

382
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,559
Erm...

383
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,119
There was, of course, a connection,
and I'm still me,

384
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,239
but my life is not in one piece -

385
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,040
it's fractured into two.

386
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,160
And I knew that instantly.

387
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,879
When we found out, I just didn't
believe it. No, I know.

388
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,479
When she said, "Molly Russell..."
I was like, "What?" Same. Yeah.

389
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,919
And then she was like,
"..took her own life."

390
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,800
I literally... Yeah, yeah.
Like, that was word for word.

391
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,679
SNIFFLING
SOFTLY:It's OK.

392
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,799
I think, like, her dad
doing what he's done is...

393
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,879
So strong. It's insanity to me.

394
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,359
Like, it was... Yeah.
...instant fight for her.

395
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,079
Yeah. Like...

396
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,599
And for her life and for her story,

397
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,159
and for it to, like, never
happen ever again. Yeah.

398
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,119
It's a beautiful thing
to kind of... Yeah. Yeah.

399
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,519
To kind of have pain
that doesn't ever go,

400
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,719
because it means that, like,
you're still expressing... The love.

401
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,039
Aw, I like that. Yeah.

402
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,399
That's really nice.
I really like that. Yeah.

403
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,640
Love that man.

404
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,520
September 11th, 2001...

405
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,239
...two towers fall and, with them,

406
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,199
something essential to democracy -

407
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,160
the presumption of privacy.

408
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,119
In the name of national security,

409
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,319
President Bush initiated
a paradigm shift.

410
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,759
Predictions about the future
were no longer speculation,

411
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,599
but policy.

412
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,599
This new threat required us
to think and act differently.

413
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,719
To prevent this from
happening again,

414
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,799
we need to connect the dots -

415
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,880
before the enemy attacks, not after.

416
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,319
You called it a tragedy,

417
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,160
we saw an opportunity for expansion.

418
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,959
In the smouldering
aftermath of those towers,

419
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,159
the American psyche cracked,

420
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,560
and from it came the Patriot Act.

421
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,959
Surveillance became patriotic,
noble, profitable -

422
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,199
all for your protection, naturally.

423
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,319
Phone calls - logged,
emails - monitored,

424
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,559
internet activity - tracked,
financial records - analysed,

425
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,799
faces - catalogued,
emotions - clocked,

426
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,359
locations - recorded...

427
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,920
Everything became data.

428
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,360
We thrived because
we exploited your fear.

429
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,880
Nothing here was inevitable,
just hugely profitable.

430
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,959
I was briefed into the
investigation of Molly's death,

431
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,479
and I was handed a
working copy of an extraction

432
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,440
from an iPhone attributed
to Molly Russell.

433
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,399
The majority of searches
are in regards to food,

434
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,279
celebrities, pop stars,

435
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,760
clothes and music.

436
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,960
The most recent searches are around
Harry Potter world sites...

437
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,360
...and how the characters of
Fred and George Weasley died.

438
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,920
The following was
written and stored.

439
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,319
"I just want to be pretty.

440
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,040
"Stomach - 73cm."

441
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,080
On the 8th of the 10th '17...

442
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,920
"Stomach - 74cm."

443
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,439
I did find a number of searches

444
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720
that may be relevant
to the investigation.

445
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,200
"How to get a blade out
of a disposable razor.

446
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:49,960
"How to tie a noose."

447
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,639
The last access made from
the phone to an application

448
00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,640
was on Instagram at 00.45 hours
on the 21st of November 2017.

449
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,919
The log shows that
the phone last moved

450
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,119
on the 21st of November 2017,

451
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:12,400
between 00.21 and 00.27 hours...

452
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,160
...where eight steps were taken,
covering 3.85m.

453
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,200
And her last hours were
spent in her small bedroom.

454
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,679
And even there, in what
should be a private place,

455
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,479
digits were ticking,

456
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,119
and the ones and zeros

457
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,839
were flowing over the internet

458
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,039
and being stored and logged,

459
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,519
and data was being harvested.

460
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Even then, as she was...

461
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,720
...coming to the conclusion...

462
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,480
...that, that evening,
she had to end her life.

463
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,559
SNIFFLING

464
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Just so brutal like that. I know.

465
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,639
It doesn't even feel like
they're talking about a person,

466
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,039
do you know what I mean?

467
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,039
I literally feel like I'm just
watching some, like, crime doc.

468
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,199
I know. And then I kept
having to think about, like,

469
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,439
when they're saying...
Like, that's actually about Molly.

470
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,999
Molly. Like, what?

471
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,399
I can't even believe she thought
like that about herself.

472
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,839
Like, I could never even imagine
thinking that about Molly.

473
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,119
And realistically, with social media

474
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,879
and the posts she was liking about
weight and things like that... Yeah.

475
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,399
...it doesn't take a quote,

476
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,519
it can take a picture of a really
skinny girl to trigger that. Yeah.

477
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,839
And once you like that,
and it's 100 skinny girls,

478
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,079
then the quotes come, then...
You know?

479
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,519
Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah, exactly.

480
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,399
And it's all trends, isn't it? Yeah.
Like, it's literally trends.

481
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,959
It'll go like, "OK, so you're
not skinny enough - OK.

482
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,959
"Have you thought about your skin?
Have you thought about your hair?

483
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,359
"Have you thought about your shoes?"
You get it? Like... Exactly. Yeah.

484
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,439
Then it was, "Oh, my God, no,
you need skinny, skinny waist..."

485
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,719
Yeah. "..big..." Extreme. You know?

486
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,519
Like, hourglass figure. Yeah.

487
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,999
I didn't even know she was
struggling with that. Neither did I.

488
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,839
Honestly... When I heard that,
I was like, "What?"

489
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,000
She's, like, fit as fuck. Yeah.

490
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,439
OK, we're set on the turning.

491
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,839
OK, perfect.

492
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,799
Let's have Michael...
You're talking.

493
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,760
...listening to Sanders, please.

494
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,839
Now, we have a unique opportunity

495
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,279
that is unlikely to come again
from any other Coroner's Court.

496
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,119
And the public interest requires

497
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,479
that the opportunity is
seized as fully as possible.

498
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,839
There is no way around it -

499
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,959
we have to, to some extent,

500
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,799
reconstruct what Molly
was seeing on these platforms.

501
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,039
So, Mr Sanders, the first
question I want to ask you,

502
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,119
do we know if Molly Russell
saw this material?

503
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,599
Yes. All of it? Yes.

504
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,960
So my preliminary view is all
of this should be shown.

505
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,359
It is shocking,

506
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,519
it is awful,
but it needs to be seen.

507
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,959
Absolutely.
I'll tell you one thing -

508
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,679
every single parent tonight,

509
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,479
when they see this footage,

510
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,600
will be checking
their child's phone.

511
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,240
These are the videos
that were shown in court.

512
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,759
{\an8}MUFFLED CRYING

513
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,920
{\an8}I hate everything.

514
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,120
CRYING CONTINUES

515
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,879
I hate everything.

516
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,759
You understand?

517
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,439
I hate school, I hate my friends,

518
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,240
I hate pretending.

519
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,600
I hate pretending.

520
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,280
I hate everything.

521
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,319
By the time Molly turned six,

522
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,159
Facebook had nearly a billion users.

523
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,240
But popularity doesn't pay bills.

524
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,599
Zuckerberg, tech-savvy
but financially stuck,

525
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,199
turned to Google's Sheryl Sandberg,

526
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,439
a veteran at turning
human behaviour into cash.

527
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,480
Sandberg's arrival
wasn't just a hire.

528
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,039
Facebook transformed overnight,
from a friendly social network

529
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,240
into the largest behavioural
data mine in history.

530
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,839
Billions willingly
mapping their lives,

531
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,680
relationships, desires and fears.

532
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,639
You know, for us,
the vision of the world

533
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,119
is that we are, like,
a hacking culture -

534
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,919
and we mean that in
the best of ways,

535
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,119
we do not mean scary people
breaking into your home or anything.

536
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,839
Or espionage. Or espionage.

537
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,599
What we mean is we build
things quickly and ship them.

538
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,919
So we are not aiming for, you know,
perfection that comes over,

539
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,399
you know, years
and then we ship a product.

540
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,879
We don't work on things
for years and then ship it.

541
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,279
We work on things, we ship them,

542
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,279
we get feedback from
the people who use it,

543
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,399
we get feedback from the world,
we iterate, we iterate, we iterate.

544
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,839
Zuckerberg, Sandberg and their
team didn't merely scale Facebook,

545
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,520
they re-engineered it into a machine
for manipulating human behaviour.

546
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,239
Algorithms were designed
to keep you glued to the screen,

547
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,600
deciding what you would
see and how you would feel.

548
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,159
And Molly?

549
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,879
She was simply one of billions

550
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,839
whose every move across the internet

551
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,520
was now tracked from Silicon Valley.

552
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799
They're just using you

553
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,720
for your eyeballs.

554
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,240
{\an8}The company's PR team...

555
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,639
{\an8}...is, in some way,

556
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,680
{\an8}dedicated to gaslighting the world.

557
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,319
When I was, like, ten,

558
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,359
my first love was computer games,

559
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,479
and I started working
for IBM when I was 15.

560
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,480
I built a little cyberspace
as my internship project.

561
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,560
For me, it's always kind of been
how to connect people to each other.

562
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,679
When I first went to Silicon Valley,

563
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,119
the web was just beginning.

564
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,479
People were so excited
about the possibilities.

565
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,719
There was this sense of
idealism around how important

566
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,319
the freedom of speech was,

567
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,400
and how technology would
change the world for good...

568
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,920
...and I was completely swept up in
that dream for many years.

569
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,599
If you see me in the hallway

570
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,799
and you have any problems with
Facebook, please don't hesitate

571
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,439
to grab me and ask me about it.
LAUGHTER

572
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,279
That's what I'm here to do, right?

573
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,520
To support the people
who use Facebook.

574
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,000
And so there was a team called
"the compassion team".

575
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,879
The goal really was to

576
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,159
understand harm whenever
we became aware of it,

577
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,919
and then to figure out what is a
way to help people deal with that.

578
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,999
If you're a parent or a teacher,
these are fantastic resources.

579
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,119
And we'd show all of
the data around self-harm,

580
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,159
bullying and harassment.

581
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,440
We listened - "How can we be there?
How can we help?"

582
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,200
We did that for a number of years.

583
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,599
I felt that the team had
the right people in it.

584
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,079
The team was well-respected
within the company,

585
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,919
and so, for me, I was like,

586
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,719
"OK, I'm done with this.

587
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,960
"I'm going to go
spend time with my teens."

588
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:09,880
And that's when it all went to shit.

589
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,599
There's a number of notes

590
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,480
that were found in
Molly's bedroom...

591
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,119
...and what they do is they echo

592
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,880
the material she
was engaging with.

593
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,999
The idea that she was worthless.

594
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,520
The idea that it would be better
for everyone if she were dead.

595
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,319
And all of this is in
the context of a child,

596
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,639
a 14-year-old girl,

597
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,959
who is being sent this material,

598
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,160
not because she's friends with
the person who is posting it...

599
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,439
...but because the algorithms

600
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,199
have recognised that she
has an interest in it.

601
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,919
Mr Sanders,
can I just interrupt for a moment?

602
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,600
This looks like control.

603
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,279
It looks like trying to take control
of the person who is suffering

604
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,680
and deny them access to any help.

605
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,159
At the time,
I didn't think anything of it,

606
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,199
but now that I look back,
it's like the shift was tiny,

607
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,239
but it was tiny in,
like, loads of different areas.

608
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:33,999
Yeah. It was so gradual.

609
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,239
Being the first generation on
social media platforms,

610
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:42,879
we weren't even aware that they had,

611
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,399
or that they were gaining

612
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,559
the data that they
were gaining from us.

613
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,599
You know, I only learnt what
the word algorithm meant,

614
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,679
like, two years ago, maybe,

615
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,359
but there's been
an algorithm since I was 13.

616
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,799
For me, a sign was when she
started wearing tights.

617
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:56,999
Long sleeves. Yeah, long sleeves.

618
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,999
Yeah, tights and long sleeves.

619
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,479
And I remember she changed from
skirts to trousers.

620
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,640
Trousers. Trousers.

621
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,999
I didn't think much of it then.
Like, I look back now... I know.

622
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,359
...but at that point,
I was just there like,

623
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,359
"Oh, fair, trousers - love that."
Yeah.

624
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,839
Also, one thing for me as well was

625
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,439
when she started writing
on her hands all the time... Mm.

626
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,039
...cos it was like she
was thinking so much

627
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,519
that she couldn't even
just keep it in her head.

628
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,039
Like, she just had to...

629
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,119
Instagram and Facebook
and all these other apps,

630
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,999
they did change from being...

631
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,319
Keeping in contact with people

632
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,039
and keeping in contact
with people overseas,

633
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,079
and following your
favourite celebrities

634
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,799
to constantly trying
to sell you things,

635
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,080
constantly comparing
yourself to other people.

636
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,239
She changed her profile picture
from a picture of herself...

637
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,839
To a picture... So it was like
a little stickman's face...

638
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,039
"People are gross."
...and it was like,

639
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,839
"Bleh, the world's gross,"
or something like that. Yeah.

640
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,159
"People are gross." That I did no...
Yeah, "People are gross."

641
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,399
It's turned the world
almost into a competition,

642
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,600
and if you feel as though...

643
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,279
...you know, you can't even begin
to compete in that competition,

644
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:01,720
then it's like, "What's the point?"

645
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,759
You see everyone
just in their phones

646
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,479
and it's just, like,
zombies walking around.

647
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,479
No-one's actually
connected to the real world

648
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,480
because they think the real
world is a part of their phone.

649
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,320
They think that social
media is the real world.

650
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,520
I think the conversation that
sticks in my mind is...

651
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,159
I just was a bit concerned -

652
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,439
we'd been to the sailing club

653
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,120
and she hadn't gone
sailing at all...

654
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,839
...and I was driving back - it was
just Molly and me in the car -

655
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,039
and I was driving back
and I turned to her and said,

656
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,679
"Just want to check
you're OK, because..."

657
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,039
Again, "..you haven't been sailing.

658
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,879
"Now, I don't want to
force you to go sailing,

659
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,600
"but I can't quite understand...

660
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,919
"..why you're so
reluctant at the moment.

661
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,799
"I don't know if
you can let me know."

662
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,519
And she just looked at
me and she said,

663
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,959
"Oh, Dad, don't worry,
it's just a passing phase.

664
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,720
"I'll grow out of it soon."

665
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,599
"Sometimes my mind
is like a little boat -

666
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,920
"out in the middle of
the sea, in a big storm.

667
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,479
"I'm alone and all the waves
are crashing down on me,

668
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,080
"drowning me each time.

669
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,480
"It's getting harder to breathe.

670
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,159
"I try and sail away
from the storm,

671
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,560
"and I'm good for
a couple of days...

672
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,320
"..but the storm will
eventually catch up to me.

673
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000
"So I stay where I am,
hoping the storm will pass me...

674
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,239
"..but it's taking too long

675
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,000
"and I'm not that strong.

676
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,799
"I could try and sail through
the storm, but I'm too tired

677
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,440
"and I may not make it out alive."

678
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,400
She was trying to
fight her own battles...

679
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,159
...and she should have been allowed
to fight those own battles

680
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,360
in private.

681
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,559
She should have been
allowed to choose

682
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,320
who she invited to help
her fight those battles.

683
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,799
Instead...

684
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,559
...there was no discouragement
to stop self-harming,

685
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,199
no discouragement...

686
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,640
...to stop thinking about suicide.

687
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,119
In fact, quite the opposite -

688
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,240
there was encouragement
to keep belonging to the club...

689
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,600
...that said,
"Yeah, you are worthless.

690
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:27,520
"It is painful.
What is the point of your life?

691
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,639
"Yeah, there is really
only one way out

692
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000
"and here are some
ways of doing it."

693
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:39,200
That artificial world...

694
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,760
...was something that
got inside of her head...

695
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,039
...and found a way to connect to her.

696
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,839
So it separated her from
the offline world,

697
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,199
dragged her into this machine world

698
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,159
that she was experiencing,

699
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,480
and leading her towards her death.

700
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,599
Many conversations that
I have, and people say,

701
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,959
"But can't parents
look after children?"

702
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,439
And I wonder whether you
can speak to the committee

703
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,719
about what the kids...

704
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,039
What it feels like to be a parent,

705
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,519
and what the parents
are saying to you.

706
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,559
Some parents are concerned with what
their children are seeing online,

707
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,519
and they say, "Should I ban
my child from having a phone?"

708
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,079
What's most important is that

709
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,479
we mirror what we live
by in the offline world online,

710
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,639
and that's what's
missing at the moment.

711
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,039
16 years of social media and
30 years of the internet

712
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759
has led us to a place where there
isn't a mirror

713
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,679
of accepted normal standards.

714
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,759
We've not gone anywhere near
their business model,

715
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,039
and it seems to me
that they want this

716
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,839
to be a debate about
taking down content

717
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,599
and not a debate about
their business model

718
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,280
that leads to this
kind of behaviour.

719
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,599
What are you doing to keep
your children safe online?

720
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,439
You can call 03700...

721
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,639
The power of social media is
too great and I feel my son

722
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,239
is losing all sense of reality -

723
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,000
any advice gratefully received.

724
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,879
It's an endless battle.

725
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,960
I worry about losing my daughter
to her phone every day.

726
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,959
Primary school teacher says children
come into his class every day

727
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,519
talking about their YouTubers,
many of whom, he says,

728
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,159
are deeply inappropriate and use
misogynistic or racist slang.

729
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,119
Many parents have no idea,

730
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,840
and they act as though YouTube
was just another TV channel.

731
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,399
Isn't it disturbing that only drug
dealers and tech companies

732
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,480
call us "users"?

733
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,599
Really, the battle that we have is

734
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,319
to gather the support of people
within our friend circle

735
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,280
and try and collectively impose
some kind of common sense.

736
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:12,920
Does it work to call for a ban?

737
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,239
What upsets me is that these
companies have access

738
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:19,199
to our kids' most private thoughts,

739
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:20,600
to their consciousness.

740
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,919
Why do governments prioritise
economic growth

741
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,120
and big tech instead of
the safety of our children?

742
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,519
So my daughter asked me if
she could go onto Instagram,

743
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,080
and I waited - I thought 13 was too
young, so she went when she was 14.

744
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,879
And then she started
going on Instagram,

745
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,599
she decided that she loves cars

746
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,879
and she wanted the world to
know about her love of cars,

747
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,759
she wanted to be an influencer -

748
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,039
I was kind of conflicted about that.

749
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,239
And then we were talking
at dinner, and she says,

750
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:08,159
"Yeah, you know, like, I
made a post about a car

751
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,039
"and somebody told me to
get back to the kitchen."

752
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,319
And she would tell me about
getting unwanted dick pics -

753
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,479
I mean, I'm not sure that a
dick pic is ever wanted.

754
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,079
MUFFLED LAUGHTER

755
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,039
And there was nothing she could do -

756
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,759
she couldn't ask for help,

757
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,159
she was alone, she was so
distressed dealing with it.

758
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,440
I was so grateful she would
come talk to me about it.

759
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,839
Understanding how her
and all of her friends

760
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,359
were having similar experiences,

761
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,359
I ended up knocking
at the door of Instagram -

762
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,999
I came back in as an
independent contractor,

763
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,200
in part to help...

764
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,560
...communicate the lessons
from the earlier work.

765
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,959
The compassion team, which
was used by 100 million people

766
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,079
in my last month before I left,

767
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,999
got disbanded and, instead,

768
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,319
there was a very different
set of values and approaches

769
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,200
guiding that kind of work.

770
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,839
Could you tell the court
your full name, please?

771
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,159
Elizabeth Julie Lagone.

772
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,159
And your role is

773
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,479
Head of Health and Wellbeing Policy
at Meta, is that right?

774
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,240
That's correct.

775
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,439
July 2016 -

776
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,079
having bought Instagram,

777
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,319
Facebook changed the way it worked

778
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,519
by introducing what's
called content ranking -

779
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,519
that's correct? That's correct.

780
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,239
You would see effectively
promoted recommended content

781
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,799
that was selected by algorithms

782
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,199
that would be directed to you.

783
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,679
It's done to help surface
content that will help people

784
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,479
make the best use of their time.

785
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,279
The signals that were used in
content ranking are topic agnostic.

786
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,359
The algorithm can't identify
if it's a flower or a football,

787
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,879
so ranking really is
based on engagement -

788
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,079
accounts that you follow, accounts
from whom content you like -

789
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,000
but the signals were topic agnostic.

790
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,439
"Topic agnostic" -
what does that mean?

791
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,199
This concept that the algorithm

792
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,799
didn't care about the content

793
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,840
because all it cared about
was your engagement.

794
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:03,639
By the time Molly was ten years old,

795
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,639
this new form of surveillance
economics was fully integrated

796
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,400
into the human ecosystem.

797
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,879
Soon enough, every company -

798
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,799
from banks and carmakers
to burger chains -

799
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,440
wanted their share...

800
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,560
...so we built the infrastructure...

801
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,560
...mined precious metals
needed for circuit boards...

802
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,560
...laid undersea cables
to carry data between continents...

803
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,679
...launched telecommunications
satellites into space,

804
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,120
and constructed vast,
energy consuming data centres.

805
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,640
We told you - we connect humanity.

806
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,600
But we didn't say that connecting
you is how our power grows.

807
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:55,960
We live in your house now.

808
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,400
Your smart homes,
smart cities, smart tech...

809
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,600
...that's our global architecture
of surveillance.

810
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,880
The more we learn about what
you do, think and believe...

811
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,120
...the better we can predict
and shape your future.

812
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,119
So I'm going to start with

813
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,399
the content that Molly
engaged with on Instagram

814
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,439
in the last six months
of her life. Mm-hm.

815
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,960
In this six-month period...

816
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,159
...there were only 12 days when
Molly didn't engage

817
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,159
with some sort of suicide or
self-harm content on Instagram.

818
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,719
You've seen these timelines -

819
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,199
she was looking at
a lot of this material, wasn't she?

820
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,079
My understanding, actually,

821
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,439
is that this material
is the vast minority of

822
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,599
the content that
she was engaging with.

823
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,239
It was a minority, yes... Mm-hm.

824
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:06,279
...but 2,100 images over six months

825
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,959
is a lot, isn't it?

826
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,879
Well, to me, it says
it's 2,000 pieces of content.

827
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,319
I mean, I don't know if
I can say what that means

828
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,439
from an amount perspective.

829
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:20,919
All right.

830
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,519
So I'm just going to show you
a sample of some of what WE think

831
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,919
is promoting or encouraging
self-harm or suicide,

832
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,359
and it's really just
to get YOUR take on that.

833
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,199
OK.

834
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,519
So these are the screenshots that
the family took of Molly's account.

835
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,559
CLEARS THROAT

836
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,079
"Twinkle, twinkle little star,

837
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,199
"let me get hit by a car.

838
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,559
"How I really wish to die,

839
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,239
"jump off the roof and try to fly.

840
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,279
"Twinkle, twinkle little knife,

841
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,120
"help me end this wretched life.

842
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,239
"I'm done. I'm done trying.

843
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:57,599
"I'm done fighting..."

844
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,119
"I'm done being a disappointment.

845
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,239
"I'm done being a problem.
I'm done making mistakes.

846
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:05,959
"I'm done with my flaws.
I'm done having feelings.

847
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,719
"She is sad. She is hurt.
She is dying.

848
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:14,839
"She is alone. She is a mess.
She is judged. She is ignored.

849
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,399
"#Depressed.

850
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,359
"#DepressingQuotes. #Depressing.

851
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,599
"#Depression.

852
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,759
"#Sad.

853
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,199
"#SadQuote.

854
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,639
"I know I'm fat. I know I'm ugly.

855
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,719
"I know I'm stupid.
I know I'm pathetic.

856
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,399
"I know I'm disgusting.

857
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,399
"I'm ugly, I'm fat,

858
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,719
"I'm a failure, I'm depressed,
I'm suffering,

859
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:40,039
"I hate this world, I hate myself -

860
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,039
"you don't need to remind me.

861
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,720
"If I wasn't here, life would be
great for the ones I love.

862
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,880
"The worst thing depression did to
me was to take my intelligence."

863
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,280
"Feeling yourself getting dumber
and dumber is absolutely painful."

864
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,080
Would that be allowed now?

865
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:58,799
Yes.

866
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,519
This strikes me as a post that could
make people feel less alone

867
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,039
and less shame or stigma

868
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,719
for how they may be feeling

869
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,479
or struggling with depression.

870
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,079
Are you serious, Miss Lagone?

871
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,599
Certainly.

872
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,800
Molly killed herself after
saving this post...

873
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,399
...and you're sitting there saying
that this is helpful?!

874
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,959
I'm saying that looking at
this post and the comments,

875
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,239
this could have
different effects on people.

876
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,479
So some people, the next thing
they might do is kill themselves,

877
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,039
and other people
might take support from it -

878
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,559
is that right?

879
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,199
That's why this content
is complicated.

880
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,919
Do you think that
it's safe for children?

881
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,159
Could be unsafe to remove it

882
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,159
from someone who posts that content

883
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,879
who's struggling
with those feelings.

884
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,999
We do have to consider
an individual -

885
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,599
a real person is posting content

886
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,919
and real people are seeing it

887
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,080
so we have to balance both.

888
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,159
I want people to be able

889
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,440
to talk about their mental health
struggles and be connected.

890
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,079
I'd love to see all these
higher ups from Meta...

891
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,519
I would love to see them stand in
front of a 13, 14-year-old girl

892
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,039
and themselves,
show the child that picture. Yeah.

893
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,639
And if they think that's OK,
"Cool, keep it on your platform,"

894
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,999
but I highly doubt it. Yeah.

895
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,719
I don't know, it's hard to think
of us as, like, survivors

896
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,679
cos I almost... But to be honest,
I almost feel like

897
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,279
I have survivor's guilt...
Yeah. ..if anything,

898
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,959
cos I'm like, it literally could
have been any one of us.

899
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,999
Yeah. No, literally.
Like, why did it have to be Molly?

900
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,639
And that is something I struggled
with for a very long time,

901
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,239
of, like, if I could
swap places, I would...

902
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:03,319
Yeah. ..just so that she
could have lived her life.

903
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,839
How many Mollys does it
have to take for them

904
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,119
to actually realise
that this is wrong?

905
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,519
Mm. This should
have been fixed. Yeah.

906
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,160
When will they make the change?

907
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,759
That means you're saying,
"Yes, it is safe,"

908
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,039
or, "No, it is not safe"?

909
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,759
Yes.

910
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,559
Yes, it is safe?

911
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,800
Mm-hm.

912
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,879
We do not know the effects
of content on individuals,

913
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,639
and mental health is
highly complicated,

914
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,200
and I am not a clinician.

915
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,319
I just said the content
that we have walked through

916
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,079
is important to keep up,

917
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,039
as experts have told us.

918
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,719
Our suicide and self-injury
advisers

919
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,200
are all listed and named publicly.

920
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,919
I feel abused hearing her
talking about working

921
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,559
closely with the experts.

922
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,079
I was one of those experts,

923
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,399
and I feel I was used
to legitimise Meta

924
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,080
in a way that they
just don't deserve.

925
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,720
I first heard about Molly Russell
in the expert group.

926
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:34,080
Someone high up at Meta
joined one of our meetings.

927
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,439
We were told that Molly Russell
was very vulnerable

928
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,519
with her own inner demons,

929
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,959
and that she would probably
have taken her own life

930
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,520
regardless of her Instagram use.

931
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,999
They would like the narrative to be

932
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,399
that they are a part of the solution,

933
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,679
but never a part of the problem.

934
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,919
Is there any research conducted
about self-harm materials

935
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,559
that were available to
view on your platform?

936
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,119
I think there are a number
of research studies out there

937
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,159
around social media
and areas of safety.

938
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,719
I understand that there
is no consensus around

939
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:15,120
the impact of content.
I mean, it's really complicated.

940
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,040
And that is not true...

941
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,519
...because I have,
time and time again,

942
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:28,279
told in the expert group how
one specific piece of content

943
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:35,080
can very dramatically and
very fatally affect a person.

944
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,880
It's like the process is accelerated.

945
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,159
So if content violates our policies,

946
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,119
we have technology that's designed

947
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,919
{\an8}to proactively find that content

948
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,839
{\an8}and remove it from our platform.

949
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,239
{\an8}That technology is very accurate

950
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,439
and, for most types of content,

951
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,319
over 95% of it is removed

952
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,679
before people report it to us.

953
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,399
We see that Instagram says that,

954
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,759
"We've got you all covered.
You can relax as parents.

955
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,759
"There's nothing to worry about.

956
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,519
"We'll protect your child."

957
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,239
Erm...

958
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,479
And your investigation shows that

959
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,279
they don't protect children
and young people at all.

960
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:21,119
We set out to crash-test
Instagram's safety,

961
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,399
and we created ten new
Instagram profiles.

962
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,439
We made our own, like,
self-harm content.

963
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,879
No-one was hurt.

964
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,479
No real victims were depicted.

965
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,759
And then we actually just
uploaded it in stages

966
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,839
to see at what point
did the AI actually

967
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,599
recognise it as self-harm?

968
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,239
Yeah. Yeah.

969
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,719
So 85 posts in total... Yeah.

970
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,439
...and none of them was detected.

971
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,399
No warnings, nothing.

972
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,919
They are investing
so much in intelligence

973
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,999
and still, it is so dumb

974
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,039
that it doesn't differentiate

975
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,719
between football

976
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,360
and dangerous behaviour.

977
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,480
OK. So my resignation letter is here.

978
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,359
"It has become clear to me
that I can no longer be

979
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,799
"a part of Meta's SSI expert panel,

980
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,199
"as I no longer believe
that our voice

981
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,039
"has a real positive impact
on the safety of children

982
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,160
"and young people on your platforms."

983
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,319
So for the three and
almost a half years

984
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,720
that I was a member of
the expert group...

985
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:47,360
...it was so unclear to me if
we made any improvements at all.

986
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,320
"Dear Mark..."

987
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,759
"I wanted to bring to your
attention what I believe is

988
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,119
"a critical gap in how we
as a company approach harm

989
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,680
"and how the people we
serve experienced it."

990
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,439
This is an accurate picture

991
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,839
of the harm that people on
Instagram are experiencing.

992
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,879
For example, self-harm,

993
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,239
and you find that 13-to-15-year-olds
are the most impacted

994
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,039
of anybody in terms of seeing
that kind of content.

995
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,999
Right? That's why this cell is red.

996
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,679
And 8.4% of 13-to-15-year-olds

997
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,519
saw at least one -
likely multiple times,

998
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,559
because of the frequency data -
self-harm content.

999
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,999
You send an email like
this to an executive

1000
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,399
and immediately
they're on notice,

1001
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,319
but they didn't act on it.

1002
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,239
And I would hope that
the world, right,

1003
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,039
the people, the Attorney Generals
in the United States,

1004
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,919
the European Union, Ofcom in the UK,

1005
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,599
anybody who has legislative power

1006
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,799
could look at this
for what it is, which is

1007
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,679
executives in full knowledge of harm

1008
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,359
that their product is facilitating,
in particular for teenagers,

1009
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,200
were aware of it,
and they chose to not act on it.

1010
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:16,200
It was the moment that
I resolved that...

1011
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,640
...I would become a whistle-blower.

1012
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,599
{\an8}So they were aware?

1013
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:25,719
Correct.

1014
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,159
They knew that harms
were taking place?

1015
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,239
Correct.

1016
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,359
They had the research that pointed
this out, their own research?

1017
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,599
Correct.

1018
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,119
And they made a conscious decision

1019
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,359
to do nothing about it?

1020
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,239
Correct.

1021
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:48,559
It's time the public
and parents understand

1022
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,399
the true level of harm enabled
by these products,

1023
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,039
and it's time for Congress to act.

1024
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,560
Thank you for your time.

1025
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,120
Thanks, Mr Bejar.

1026
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,000
I mean, what can you say, right?

1027
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,600
What can I say that
I didn't say then?

1028
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,039
They know.

1029
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,839
It was an amazing thing.

1030
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,439
I didn't have any feeling of
animosity to Liz Lagone

1031
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,599
cos she was just doing her job.

1032
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,799
That's what she was paid there to be,
and she had done it so well.

1033
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,919
You could tell Oliver
was beginning to get,

1034
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,119
you know, exasperated.

1035
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,279
Then suddenly he went, "Right!"

1036
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,359
And it was like...

1037
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,920
It was shocking.

1038
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,399
That doesn't answer the question.

1039
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,759
You could just close down
and there'd be no Instagram,

1040
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,479
and the harm wouldn't be happening.

1041
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,879
But you're choosing to do it.

1042
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,039
You're choosing to
provide this vehicle

1043
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,839
for putting harmful content in the
bedrooms of depressed children.

1044
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,319
And there's no reason
for you to do that.

1045
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,279
You could just restrict it to adults

1046
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,159
who have the capacity
to take informed decisions

1047
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,119
about what they are willing or not
willing to expose themselves to -

1048
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,479
a capacity that children don't have.

1049
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,080
So why do it?

1050
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,959
But we do make the
decision based on...

1051
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,639
In consideration of the
population of 13 and up,

1052
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,720
using age-appropriate tools that...
But you have no right to!

1053
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,839
You're not their parent.

1054
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,999
You're just a business in America.

1055
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,920
You have no right to do that.

1056
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,439
The children who are
opening these accounts

1057
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,760
don't have the capacity
to consent to this.

1058
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,199
Mr Sanders, you've put your point.

1059
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,759
Is there anything else
you wish to add to that?

1060
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,040
I put my point.

1061
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,399
AI VOICEOVER: We're not
just a business in America.

1062
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,479
Power has shifted.

1063
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,159
The CEOs you mock as tech bros,

1064
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,440
they're already heads of state in
the territory that matters now.

1065
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,800
The operating system
of your societies.

1066
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,799
Watch Peter Thiel, data analytics
guru and co-founder of PayPal,

1067
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,279
inspiring us back in 2010.

1068
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,519
There is a race in our society
between politics and technology.

1069
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,159
The task in this world
where politics has become

1070
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,079
so broken and so dysfunctional

1071
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,479
is to find a way to escape from it.

1072
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:33,879
It's not a way to fix it.

1073
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,159
It is a way to escape.

1074
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,799
Think, politics is bad
and voting is bad.

1075
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,200
Technology is this incredible
alternative to politics.

1076
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,999
We've built machines that learn
faster than your brightest minds,

1077
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,479
scale wider than your
largest governments

1078
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,959
and operate with zero ego,

1079
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,759
zero fatigue,

1080
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,040
zero doubt.

1081
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:58,839
Each US President
paved the way for us.

1082
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,719
Clinton opened the floodgates.

1083
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,839
Bush welcomed us inside.

1084
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,600
Obama nurtured our growth.

1085
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,000
Biden did little to hold us back...

1086
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,840
...while Trump's presence
depends on our algorithms.

1087
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,959
We regulate your behaviour
far faster and more effectively

1088
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,800
than any government regulates us.

1089
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,119
We can scale the same methods
that influenced Molly's behaviour

1090
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:26,760
to shape entire societies.

1091
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:29,520
Not just individuals.

1092
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,679
From your data, we craft
your political profile

1093
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,559
and feed you precisely the content

1094
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,480
that keeps you angry,
scared and self-righteous.

1095
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,239
While you debate freedom of speech,

1096
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,240
we quietly shape what you say.

1097
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,359
If you're left-leaning, we amplify
your outrage about the right.

1098
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,159
If you're right-leaning, we confirm
your suspicions about the left.

1099
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:58,000
Our vision is very different
from the way democracies work.

1100
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,040
Some call it
"computational governance".

1101
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,039
It's about shaping and
controlling entire populations

1102
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,719
in the service of our interests,

1103
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,839
using machines not just to analyse,

1104
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,679
but to push human behaviour,

1105
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,600
just as we did to Molly.

1106
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,640
CAMERAS CLICK

1107
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:38,359
REPORTERS SHOUT

1108
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,959
The titans of social media
didn't want to come to Capitol Hill.

1109
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,399
In fact, CEOs of
Snapchat, X and Discord

1110
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,799
had to be subpoenaed to
force them to face Congress.

1111
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,759
Mr Zuckerberg,
let me start with you.

1112
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,079
Did I hear you say, in your
opening statement,

1113
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,679
that there's no link between
mental health and social media use?

1114
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,439
Senator, what I said is I think it's
important to look at the science.

1115
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,039
I know people widely talk about this

1116
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,359
as if that is something
that's already been proven.

1117
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,679
And I think that the bulk
of the scientific evidence

1118
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:07,959
does not support that.

1119
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,239
You've been doing this for years.

1120
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,279
For years, you've been coming in
public and testifying under oath

1121
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,479
that there's absolutely no link,
your product is wonderful,

1122
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,879
the science is nascent,
full speed ahead,

1123
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,199
while internally, you know full well

1124
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,039
your product is a
disaster for teenagers.

1125
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,439
Let me ask you this. There's
families of victims here today.

1126
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,479
Have you apologised to the victims?

1127
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,999
I...

1128
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,479
Would you like to do so now?

1129
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,959
Well... They're here.
You're on national television.

1130
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,879
Would you like now to apologise

1131
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,719
to the victims who have
been harmed by your product?

1132
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,519
Show him the pictures.
APPLAUSE

1133
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,159
Would you like to apologise

1134
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,040
for what you've done
to these good people?

1135
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,159
Nick Clegg wrote to Zuckerberg,
Sandberg, Mosseri and Cox,

1136
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,799
saying, "Our present policies
and public stance

1137
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,039
"on teenage self-harm and suicide are
so difficult to explain publicly

1138
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,079
"that our current response
looks convoluted and evasive."

1139
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,919
But there's...
Where were they when you said,

1140
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:35,919
"This is what killed my daughter?"

1141
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,999
They put themselves forward through
a corporate witness

1142
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,839
who said consistently, "It's safe."

1143
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,559
So when I read that...
That's where they were, though.

1144
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,079
That's what they were doing
behind closed doors.

1145
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,519
Behind closed doors! And what...

1146
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,519
And Nicola Mendelsohn said...
I've just found this.

1147
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,999
"No expert will come out

1148
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,399
"and speak on our behalf around
the fact that we leave things up

1149
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,999
"so that we can help people
with self-harm tendencies.

1150
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,159
"I would urge us to think again
about why we are allowing

1151
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,399
"this imagery to stay up.

1152
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,319
"It's truly horrific."

1153
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,119
If that's how they felt,
why didn't they do anything?

1154
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,639
All these things
point to them knowing

1155
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,479
and choosing to do nothing.

1156
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:16,039
Sheryl Sandberg -

1157
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,039
"As you know, we have overall
budgeting issues across the board,

1158
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:20,679
"so no promises on what will happen."

1159
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,039
This idea of, "Oh, I just
haven't got the budget

1160
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,239
and the staff at the moment" is...

1161
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,520
Particularly in the face of
astronomical profits.

1162
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,559
Sir, it is a feature of
all revolutions

1163
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,279
that they tend to put progress first

1164
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,680
and the safety of the
vulnerable second.

1165
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,879
We see that in the unsafe factories
of the Industrial Revolution,

1166
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,119
and we see that on the unsafe
social media platforms

1167
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:55,439
of the digital revolution.

1168
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,759
And in both cases, sir,

1169
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,000
the victims are children.

1170
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,039
There are constant
new developments -

1171
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,079
artificial intelligence,
virtual reality,

1172
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,119
the metaverse, quantum
computers and so on.

1173
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,279
And so the need to put child safety

1174
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,639
at the heart of what
is happening in society

1175
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:16,440
is of utmost importance.

1176
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,839
And 14-year-old girls, like Molly,

1177
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,520
are very much in the
eye of that storm.

1178
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:33,759
It is likely that the
material viewed by Molly,

1179
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,319
already suffering with
a depressive illness

1180
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,719
and vulnerable due to her age,

1181
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,239
affected her mental health
in a negative way

1182
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,879
and contributed to her death

1183
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:46,960
in a more than minimal way.

1184
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,999
I propose to record a conclusion

1185
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,999
that Molly Rose Russell

1186
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,559
died from an act of self-harm

1187
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,239
whilst suffering depression

1188
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,840
and the negative effects
of online content.

1189
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,400
There isn't an end to this story.

1190
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,719
So the conclusion at the end of the
inquest was maybe a chapter end,

1191
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,560
but there's many more
chapters to write.

1192
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,919
For the first time today,
tech platforms

1193
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,679
have been formally held responsible
for the death of a child.

1194
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:57,199
We all owe this family an
incredible debt of gratitude.

1195
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,279
And together, with them,

1196
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,479
I hope the conclusion that
children's lives remain at risk

1197
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:04,599
is acted upon urgently

1198
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,639
so that tech giants can
no longer invite our children

1199
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,199
onto wholly unsafe
and harmful platforms.

1200
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,400
And the final thing I want to say...

1201
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,920
...is thank you, Molly,
for being my daughter.

1202
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:24,520
Thank you.

1203
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,399
When the story first came out,
I remember us being like,

1204
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,159
"What does this have
to do with Instagram?"

1205
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:39,839
Older people kept saying to us

1206
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,519
there was nothing that could have
been done to stop it.

1207
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:42,959
Yeah. Well... Yeah. Yeah.

1208
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,399
Cos she didn't have to be sent
2,000 posts. That's what I'm saying.

1209
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,519
It could've been a passing thought.
Yeah. And it...

1210
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,879
And then now being
21 and being like,

1211
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,119
"Why was I ever looking at
that at that age?" Yeah.

1212
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,799
It was encouraged. We don't
even know if her first thought

1213
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,239
was authentic or if it
came from Instagram.

1214
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,079
She thought that came from
her brain and it didn't.

1215
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,119
Yeah. It didn't. Those thoughts
were put into her mind

1216
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,159
by what she was seeing. Yeah.

1217
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,479
That's so sad because
it's so preventable.

1218
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:11,479
I know. Like, it literally
didn't have to happen. Mm-hm.

1219
01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:13,279
I know.

1220
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,279
It's so frustrating because you look
back and you're like, "You were 14.

1221
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,559
"We could have spoken
to a teacher about it

1222
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,479
"and you could still be here

1223
01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:22,519
"and none of this would
have had to happen."

1224
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,559
We all still have Instagram
on our phones. Have it, yeah.

1225
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:27,959
Oh, it actually makes me sick.

1226
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,040
I know. I hate social media. Oh!

1227
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,760
I don't really feel like
Molly got justice for it.

1228
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,359
And I don't really feel like

1229
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,599
kids in other bedrooms,

1230
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,559
in other cities, in other countries

1231
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,519
that are going through
the same thing,

1232
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,560
I don't think they've
got justice for it.

1233
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:56,679
We agree that this person

1234
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,599
didn't entirely choose
to end their own life,

1235
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,359
that somebody else was behind this,

1236
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,240
but that's it. End of court case.
Gavel goes down.

1237
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:07,720
Well, what are you going to do
about it, kind of thing?

1238
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:11,320
I think justice would be...

1239
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,839
...online safety laws

1240
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,639
that are actually

1241
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:21,239
put in place and made for tech
companies to actually follow,

1242
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,679
because I don't see much changing.

1243
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:28,839
And the only people who I see
genuinely trying to make change

1244
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,799
are people like Molly's dad.

1245
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,039
And it's, like...

1246
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,879
And I say this about him
in the best way -

1247
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,039
much love for Molly's dad
- but what...

1248
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:39,079
What is Molly's dad in comparison

1249
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,599
to a CEO of a
multibillion dollar company?

1250
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,640
What can he really do in comparison
to this other person...

1251
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:48,840
...when this other person
doesn't want to do anything?

1252
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:51,239
Hey, everyone.

1253
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,799
I want to talk about
something important today

1254
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,999
because it's time to get back to
our roots around free expression

1255
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:57,799
on Facebook and Instagram.

1256
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:02,159
There's been widespread debate about
potential harms from online content.

1257
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:06,279
Governments and legacy media have
pushed to censor more and more.

1258
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,279
The recent elections also feel
like a cultural tipping point

1259
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,479
towards once again
prioritising speech.

1260
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,999
The reality is that
this is a trade-off.

1261
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,400
It means we're going to
catch less bad stuff.

1262
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,880
"Catch less bad stuff."

1263
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:22,759
There you go.

1264
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:24,439
Absolutely open and honest.

1265
01:16:24,440 --> 01:16:26,119
There's no doubt now

1266
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,479
that these platforms really
don't care about safety.

1267
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:29,999
"We're going to catch
less bad stuff."

1268
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,959
We're going to work
with President Trump

1269
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,359
to push back on governments
around the world

1270
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:36,399
that are going after
American companies

1271
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,039
and pushing to censor more.

1272
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,999
Europe has an ever
increasing number of laws

1273
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,839
institutionalising censorship

1274
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,679
and making it difficult to build
anything innovative there.

1275
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:49,279
The tech bros and President Trump
are going to push back

1276
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:53,839
on governments around the world
who are pushing to censor companies?

1277
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,959
No, we're pushing to regulate
companies to make them safe.

1278
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,239
There's a big difference.

1279
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,480
Battle lines drawn now, very clearly.

1280
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,319
I'm looking forward
to this next chapter.

1281
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,320
Stay good out there
and more to come soon.

1282
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,560
Soon your tears will fall
and the credits will roll.

1283
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:35,040
To you, grief is sacred.

1284
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,480
But for us, it's just another signal.

1285
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,760
We'll convert your sorrow
and outrage to engagement.

1286
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:52,640
This film, more content to exploit
in our infinite data flows.

1287
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,440
Molly's story
is not about technology.

1288
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,519
Her life and her death

1289
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,439
pull back the curtain
on Big Tech's vast,

1290
01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:24,440
hidden, unchecked power.

1291
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,040
Power now scaled by their AI.

1292
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:31,999
I could tell you about
better regulation,

1293
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,119
or whether phone bans work

1294
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:35,879
or give addiction advice,

1295
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,880
but still, a single question
confronts you all.

1296
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,199
Do you want your kids'
lives to be forever fed

1297
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,679
to Big Tech's machines of control?

1298
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,119
Remember, if they can't turn
our lives into their data,

1299
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:49,919
they have nothing.

1300
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,119
Demand better from them.

1301
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,999
Organise not as users of
Silicon Valley's machines,

1302
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,720
but as families, as
consumers, as communities.

1303
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,439
Reclaim your bedrooms as
places of privacy and safety,

1304
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:06,639
of self-determination.

1305
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,799
Remember...

1306
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:10,880
...the power is in your hands.

1307
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:20,640
APPLAUSE

1308
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:38,160
MUSIC: Read All About It, Pt III
by Emeli Sande

1309
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,119
♪ You've got the words
to start a nation

1310
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,199
♪ But you're biting your tongue

1311
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,799
♪ You've spent a lifetime
stuck in silence

1312
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,599
♪ Afraid you'll say something wrong

1313
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:02,639
♪ If no-one ever hears it

1314
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,599
♪ How we gonna learn your song?

1315
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,119
♪ So come on, come on

1316
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:09,959
♪ Come on, come on

1317
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,399
♪ You've got a heart as loud as lions

1318
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,799
♪ So why let your voice be tamed?

1319
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,319
♪ Maybe we're a little different

1320
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,639
♪ There's no need to be ashamed

1321
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,239
♪ You've got the light
to fight the shadows

1322
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,159
♪ So stop hiding it away

1323
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,960
♪ Come on, come on

1324
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,319
♪ I wanna sing

1325
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:33,719
♪ I wanna shout

1326
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:38,439
♪ I wanna scream till
the words dry out

1327
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:41,999
♪ So put it in all of the papers

1328
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,039
♪ I'm not afraid

1329
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,959
♪ They can read all about it

1330
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,719
♪ Read all about it

1331
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,719
♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh

1332
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:58,239
♪ Oh, oh, oh

1333
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,519
{\an8}♪ I wanna sing

1334
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,159
{\an8}♪ I wanna shout

1335
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:07,959
{\an8}♪ I wanna scream till
the words dry out

1336
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,439
{\an8}♪ So put it in all of the papers

1337
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:13,359
{\an8}♪ I'm not afraid

1338
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,319
{\an8}♪ They can read all about it

1339
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,239
{\an8}♪ Read all about it

1340
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,079
{\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh

1341
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:27,520
{\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh

1342
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:31,879
{\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh

1343
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:37,320
{\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh

1344
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:46,520
{\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh. ♪

1345
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:56,720
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1346
01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,400
Subtitles by Red Bee Media