1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.BZ

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.BZ

3
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,280
Dad?

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,680
Yeah?

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,240
Are you up here?

6
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,320
Mm-hmm.

7
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:29,320
Dadda, can you help me draw Mummy
on this piece of paper?

8
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,800
Alex, look at me.

9
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,600
When you saw the bad man,
was he in front of you like I am?

10
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,320
Or was he on this side,
or was he on that side?

11
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,040
-He was in front of me.
-He was right in front of you?

12
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,280
-Mm-hmm.
-Did Mummy see him?

13
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,360
I don't think she did.

14
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,320
No? Did you see him first?

15
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,440
Yeah, I saw him first.

16
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,440
Did he have a bag?

17
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,080
Yeah.

18
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,320
And did he open it,
or was it already open?

19
00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,400
He opened it.

20
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,800
And what did he get out?

21
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,000
A knife.

22
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,200
-What did he do to you?
-Knocked me over!

23
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,240
-He knocked you over?
-Yeah.

24
00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:09,240
The bad man was
sticking his things in her.

25
00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:10,760
What was he sticking in her?

26
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,880
A knife. There's his knife.

27
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,480
Did you see it?

28
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,600
Yeah, I saw the knife.

29
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,120
Did you see all the times?

30
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,840
I saw it… Yeah, I saw it all.

31
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,640
My son witnessed his mother's murder.

32
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,680
But nobody could have possibly known

33
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,160
how long it was gonna take
to find the person who did this.

34
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,840
Oh!

35
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,680
What… What have you got?

36
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,080
-I've got a camera.
-What for?

37
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,000
Take pictures of you.

38
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,600
Cuddles.

39
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,080
Hmm?

40
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,200
We don't like those much, do we, Alex?

41
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,560
Oh!

42
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,920
Rachel and Alex were,
you know, they were a unit.

43
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320
He was the center of Rachel's attention
every day.

44
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,920
She wasn't at all
drawn to the sparkly things.

45
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,480
She just really enjoyed
the simple things of life.

46
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,120
Enjoying the company
of the people she really cared about.

47
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,440
This was someone
who could really squeeze fun

48
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,480
out of the simplest of things.

49
00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,240
Can't wait.

50
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,240
Sleep. Need…

51
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,840
Give Molly a nice stroke.
Lie down and give her a nice stroke.

52
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,800
At the time, I went to work
five days a week as a dispatch rider

53
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,520
and travelled all over the country.

54
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,560
So I was down getting my bike out,
ready for the day.

55
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,800
And, uh, even though
we'd already said goodbye,

56
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:20,960
they both appeared.

57
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,600
Came down the stairs
and, uh, waved me off.

58
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840
That's my lasting memory,
yeah, of them smiling.

59
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:35,240
Standing on the steps, hand in hand.

60
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,920
You know, Alex completely relaxed
and Rachel looking lovely.

61
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,360
It was their routine
to visit Wimbledon Common.

62
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,200
It's always had
a reputation of being a safe place.

63
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,680
And, uh, Alex, he needed
as much exercise as the dog did.

64
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,160
Otherwise,
they'd both be bouncing off the walls.

65
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,680
That day, I happened to be in London,

66
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,520
and I was sent to the outskirts.

67
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,120
It's pre-mobile phone.

68
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,680
So a couple of times a day, I'd phone in
to make sure everything was all right.

69
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,520
Late in the morning, I stopped,

70
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,640
found a phone that was working.

71
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,680
Rang the number.

72
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,480
A man's voice answered the phone.

73
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,080
And my blood ran cold.

74
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,840
I just knew immediately
that something was seriously wrong.

75
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,400
He said, "I'm a policeman."

76
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,360
So I said, "Where's Rachel?"

77
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,000
And he said, "There's been an accident."

78
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,080
I said, "Is she dead?"
He said, "I can't tell you that."

79
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:04,680
I said, "You just did."

80
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,600
And I asked, "Where's Alex?"

81
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,160
He said, "Alex is safe.
He's at the hospital."

82
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,600
He said, "Stay where you are.
We'll send a police car to you."

83
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,960
The moment I put the phone down,
I collapsed to the floor and broke down.

84
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,760
André, I'm right up on your stomach.

85
00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:33,960
Press pause.

86
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,680
Hey, I don't…

87
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,200
I don't know what you say.

88
00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,720
We like that bit.

89
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,120
-You like that bit?
-Yeah.

90
00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,720
Every belief I had about, you know,
the firmness of reality disappeared.

91
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,240
I was in a state

92
00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,960
which you can only describe
as bordering on the edge of insanity.

93
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,080
15th July '92,

94
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,320
I was informed that a body has been found
on the common by a… a dog walker.

95
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,920
It… it's our job, um,

96
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,360
to, to deal with these situations
as, as a professional.

97
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,560
To stand back
from what you see as a fellow human being.

98
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,040
I was walking through grass,

99
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,560
and then I sort of turned right
into a small, um, glade.

100
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,160
It really was the worst crime scene.

101
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,560
It… it just looked like a frenzied attack.

102
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,640
The victim had been attacked, dragged,

103
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,400
stabbed 49 times
in and around the neck and chest area.

104
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,000
And she lay with her hands
sort of up in front of her face,

105
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,480
as if she was
still trying to protect herself.

106
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,560
It was monstrous.

107
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,320
The detectives told me
that Rachel had been attacked from behind.

108
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,520
She'd been… …stabbed multiple times

109
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,120
and that she'd been assaulted.

110
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,520
That Alex had been found
clinging to his mother's body.

111
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,640
And that they had to
basically prize him away

112
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,280
to attend to him.

113
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,360
Alex had been taken to this hospital.

114
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:41,880
When I got there,

115
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,120
they said that they would like me
to speak to a psychologist before…

116
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,200
before I saw Alex.

117
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,840
The psychologist said,
first of all, children are resilient.

118
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,960
They can get through the worst of things.

119
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,200
He said they need to know

120
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,800
that this is definitive,
that this person is not coming back.

121
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,280
Alex came out in the arms of a nurse,
and he looked incredibly subdued.

122
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480
He had cuts under his eyes.
He had bruises on his cheeks.

123
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,920
And, uh, he had
an intense look in his eyes, you know,

124
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,600
like a… a very old person
in a very young body.

125
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,120
And I picked him up and basically recited
what the psychologist said.

126
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,360
There's been an accident,

127
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,080
that Mummy's dead,
that she's not coming back.

128
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,240
And he just kept staring.
He didn't ask any questions.

129
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,760
But it was clear that he was telling me,
"I already know that."

130
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,840
You know? "That's something
you really don't have to explain to me."

131
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,200
Alex, turn around and wave to me.

132
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,480
Wave.

133
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,520
He never asked again
where his mother was. Not once.

134
00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:13,280
Police sealed off Wimbledon Common

135
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,280
moments after the woman's
half-naked body was found by a passer-by.

136
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,160
Detectives say she'd been murdered
in a frenzied attack,

137
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,080
which was witnessed
by her two-year-old son.

138
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,760
The news editor called and said,

139
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,160
"We've just read on the wires

140
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,920
there's been some sort of fatal stabbing
on Wimbledon Common."

141
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,960
"We need you to go with a crew now."

142
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,880
Wimbledon as a place,

143
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,200
it's very affluent, very beautiful houses.

144
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:47,400
Wimbledon Common is
something like 1,100 acres of parkland,

145
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,400
literally right on the edge
of Central London.

146
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,200
The murder happened in broad daylight,

147
00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,960
and police say they're certain the killer
would have been heavily bloodstained.

148
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,520
Eve Richings, Sky News.

149
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,680
It was palpable how shaken
the police officers on the scene were.

150
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,520
A passer-by found her half-naked,

151
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,920
and clinging to the body was a small boy.

152
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,160
Superintendent Bassett,

153
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,840
who was, um, the lead officer
in charge of the investigation,

154
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,680
he was the one
that gave the first briefing.

155
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,920
The small boy was caked in mud and blood,

156
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,480
the blood possibly coming from the mother.

157
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,480
I was a detective sergeant
and, at the time of the inquiry,

158
00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:37,520
was John Bassett's right-hand man.

159
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,120
When we arrived at the scene,

160
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,600
I could see
that she had suffered horrendously

161
00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:47,800
during this attack.

162
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,120
When we looked closely at her body,
her body was in a not-natural position.

163
00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,800
Her clothing had been ripped from her.

164
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,880
There was moistness
in and around her body.

165
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,800
That indicated there's possibly
a sexual connotation to this.

166
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,440
It was frightening to think that somebody
who could commit that sort of crime

167
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:11,400
was on the loose.

168
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,040
Obviously, if you've got
somebody who's gonna do this,

169
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,400
then that's likely to happen again,

170
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,240
and the pressure is on to get this man,
uh, before he does it again.

171
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,200
Police teams spent a second day
combing 1,000 acres of Wimbledon Common

172
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,400
for clues to the savage killing.

173
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,320
The size of Wimbledon Common,

174
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,840
straight away, I realized
that we had a difficult job on.

175
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,800
Normally when a murder breaks,

176
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,000
you probably get 10, 15 officers.

177
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,280
On this, I think we had about 40.

178
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,720
And it was quite obvious from the start
that this was gonna be a big one.

179
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,720
They officially named
the murdered mother as Rachel Nickell.

180
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,400
Her body was identified today
by the father of her small son.

181
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,640
To see pictures of Rachel Nickell,

182
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,560
to see what she looked like,

183
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,720
she sort of shone with vitality.

184
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:21,160
People could project… themselves
into that life.

185
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,800
They could remember being 23

186
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,240
or remember being a new parent.

187
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,480
We were getting a love story
in the pictures that they released.

188
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,840
It was an instant connection.

189
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,640
It was… You know,
I'd never had that experience before,

190
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,280
and I've never had it since.

191
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,440
We were inseparable. We did feel
that we just bonded completely.

192
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,800
This is the experience that people,
you know, they… they dream of having.

193
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,480
You know, falling head over heels in love
and feeling so complete with someone.

194
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,000
So we both felt blessed to have that.

195
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,200
When Rachel became pregnant,
it was a shock.

196
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,600
I was 25, and Rachel was 19.

197
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,960
She was very much on the track
of, you know, getting studies finished,

198
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,760
getting a career, getting a good job.

199
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,960
But the moment
that Rachel could see I was committed,

200
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,600
she could see
that we could make this work.

201
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,440
So we just went for it.

202
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,800
That first time
that you pick up… pick up a child

203
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,640
and see them breathing,

204
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,880
it's… it's supernatural.

205
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,000
It's absolutely supernatural.

206
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,440
You can't not believe in magic
if you've seen a child being born.

207
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,320
Rachel was a natural mother.

208
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,320
She was… She was, uh, breathtaking.

209
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,800
The two of them
were so passionate about each other.

210
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,680
They were so fulfilled with each other.

211
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,200
I think it's a human reaction.

212
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,480
You wish it had happened to you
rather than it happened to them.

213
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,400
The detective suggested
we pop back to the flat

214
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,000
and pick up a few things.

215
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,040
I was throwing Alex's favorite stuff
into a bag, you know.

216
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,920
His favorite teddy bear, you know,
shorts and T-shirts, his pajamas,

217
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,960
and the sheepskin that they slept on
since he was, uh… since he was first born.

218
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,760
We never lived there again.

219
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,520
It felt like
a space that had been violated.

220
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,280
The boyfriend of Rachel Nickell,

221
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,360
the young mother murdered
on Wimbledon Common

222
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,760
in South London yesterday,

223
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,960
has appealed for help
to track down her killer.

224
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,240
I wasn't prepared when I walked
through the door into that room.

225
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,000
There must have been
a hundred press present.

226
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,800
So it was cameras, telephoto lenses,

227
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,840
TV cameras all pointed towards you
like a… an enemy battalion.

228
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,320
Everyone wanted to see
what Rachel's partner was like.

229
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,960
Somebody must know something,

230
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,520
um, from the ferocity of the attack.

231
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,160
They couldn't have walked down the road
and not be noticed.

232
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,680
And I would say to anybody
who does know this person,

233
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,560
no matter how they feel about them,

234
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,400
please come forward
before he destroys anybody else's life.

235
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,200
But also everyone really wanted to know
what had happened to Rachel's son.

236
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,760
It was just so shocking.

237
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,600
He hasn't said anything. Um…

238
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,440
I don't know how he's gonna be
in the future, but… he's not too bad.

239
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,240
He wasn't injured, thank God.

240
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,560
And the most fortunate thing
is that they tell me

241
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,920
he's small enough
that he won't remember much.

242
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,720
We went back to the common
to leave the rose for Rachel

243
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,680
to say our farewell,

244
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,120
and we were now front-page news.

245
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,960
There was a full color picture printed
of Alex in my arms,

246
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,720
completely identifiable.

247
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400
They were identifying
the only witness to his mother's murder,

248
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,120
and there was a possibility
that some deranged person may come back

249
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,880
to try and dispose of
the only witness to his crime.

250
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,000
I knew from now on,

251
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,760
if we weren't in danger before,
now we were in the gravest of danger.

252
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,120
Two-year-old Alex Nickell
is said to be bearing up,

253
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,880
but in a state of deep shock
after his ordeal.

254
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,520
I think a two-year-old would have
no concept of death at all.

255
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,000
How long could this trauma last?

256
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,680
Well, it could last a lifetime.

257
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,480
Down came the rain
And washed the spider out…

258
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,000
We were able to find
some sanctuary at my mother's home.

259
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840
Alex, he's had nightmares,
terrible nightmares.

260
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,400
If he could sleep soundly
through the night, for the last hour,

261
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,840
he'd be… you know,
he'd be in a difficult place.

262
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,240
So whatever I was feeling,
I had to swallow it, put it away.

263
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,160
You deal with it later.
You can't deal with it now.

264
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,640
No matter how, you know,

265
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,560
how terrible my circumstances were
in that particular moment,

266
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,480
our child's needs came first.

267
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,040
The police effort to hunt down
the murderer involves 54 detectives.

268
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,880
What name is that, then?

269
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,920
This is one
of three special incident rooms.

270
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,120
There have already been
1,500 calls from the public.

271
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,960
Every one has to be assessed and acted on.

272
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,640
It was a very complex case
to… to put together.

273
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,480
Morning, incident room.

274
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,400
We had to go through this chaos of
getting as much information as possible.

275
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,080
The telephones are ringing.

276
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,920
You've seen the photographs of Rachel.

277
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,120
-Yeah.
-Yeah?

278
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,160
-Had you seen her before up here?
-No.

279
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,200
On the common, we were taking statements.

280
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,560
Surely somebody must have seen the person

281
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,880
coming towards the murder scene
or going away from the murder scene.

282
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,840
Lots of pressure was on to find a witness.

283
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,800
That's the Rachel Nickell murder squad
at Wimbledon. You've already been stopped?

284
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,880
We are responding as quickly as we can.

285
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,080
We do have a backlog.
I will not deny that.

286
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,360
But we eventually
will get round to see everyone.

287
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,360
It's left to me and it's left
to the officers I have working for me.

288
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,600
We will catch him.

289
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,040
Samples were taken from the crime scene

290
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,960
and submitted to the lab for DNA analysis.

291
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,760
And I just kept hitting a wall.

292
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,480
The biologist was saying,
"We're getting nothing."

293
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,480
And I thought, "What do you mean nothing?
What about her DNA?"

294
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,360
"No, we're getting nothing."

295
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,640
And I'd never encountered that before.
That was kind of strange.

296
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,080
And so the scientist was saying,

297
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,960
"Well, we'll look at it again
from a different aspect."

298
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,160
But still nothing.

299
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,360
There's a feeling of hopelessness
because this person had to be traced ASAP.

300
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,760
And here we were
two or three weeks down the road

301
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,120
and no nearer that
than we had been on the day.

302
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,520
There we had a murder scene
with no witnesses,

303
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,800
with no forensic evidence.

304
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,360
And that was it.
Where do you go from there?

305
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,360
The situation being as dire as it was,

306
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,840
the police then wanted to talk to Alex
about what he'd seen.

307
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,800
Because our greatest concern

308
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,240
is that we find this person,
but more than anything,

309
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,520
that we stop it from happening
to anybody else if we possibly could.

310
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,440
We had to be very careful
how we dealt with young Alex

311
00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,280
because this was obviously
a traumatic incident that he witnessed.

312
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,000
Therefore, we were obviously
taking advice as to how to do that.

313
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:08,480
How's it going?

314
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,720
The advice was
that we should deal with that

315
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,760
through a child psychologist.

316
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,680
Will you show Jean your dinosaur book?

317
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,800
I like the pterodactyls.

318
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,280
Yeah.

319
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,720
I was a child and adolescent psychiatrist.

320
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,280
And this was unique in our experience.

321
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,320
This is the only case
I've ever worked with

322
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,520
where the child was the only witness
to a crime of violence.

323
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,080
Look, my dinosaur book.

324
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,520
Yes, I like these ones, the flying ones.

325
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,120
But I like all of them.

326
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,520
You like all of them, yeah.

327
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,840
I said we could use my home.

328
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,840
And, uh, the first interview,
there was a policeman there,

329
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,800
André and myself and the little boy.

330
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,480
The police were intensely hopeful

331
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,600
that this child, young as he was,
could give them more information.

332
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,360
I had no experience
of how this piece of very intensive work

333
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,400
could affect a small child.

334
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,480
And yet the rational part of my brain
fully agreed that it was important

335
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,600
to try and prevent further killings.

336
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,160
So there was a dilemma there.

337
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,320
It was a very, very hard call to make.

338
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,960
So I was just trying to be
as vigilant as possible.

339
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,760
If I felt we'd crossed a line,
we just had to stop.

340
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,600
There was a scary bit yesterday,
wasn't there?

341
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:30,680
Mmm.

342
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,120
What was that like?

343
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,960
The dinosaur was that big one.

344
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,080
There was
this huge dinosaur on the ground.

345
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,480
The three little ones
were eating it, weren't they?

346
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000
-Yeah.
-They were covered in blood, weren't they?

347
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,040
Covered in blood?
That must have been difficult.

348
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,880
They're not going to see that.

349
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,960
The decision was made
that it would be best

350
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,120
if her questions came through me

351
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,720
to get Alex to respond
as naturally as possible.

352
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,440
Alex had blood on him, didn't you?
You had blood on you.

353
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,720
All your clothes were
covered in blood, weren't they?

354
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800
Yeah.

355
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,640
When you were with Mummy that day.

356
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,080
Hmm?

357
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,840
Mostly, I was just trying to focus
only on Alex and to observe him.

358
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640
He'd had few words at this point.

359
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,240
He was reluctant to look at people.

360
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,800
But… I think he was… he was showing stress

361
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,800
after a very, very extreme trauma.

362
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,360
His whole body language,
every movement he made showed that.

363
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,760
I think you know now
that terrible things suddenly happen.

364
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,320
I think you're very frightened.

365
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,960
From Jean's point of view,
she thought it was better to push.

366
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,000
So when you saw the man standing there,

367
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,320
was he looking at you,
or was he looking at Mummy?

368
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,600
Mummy.

369
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,160
-So he didn't say anything to you?
-No.

370
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,840
He didn't shout at you?

371
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,160
-Did he shout at you or not, Alex?
-No.

372
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,120
As my questions
led more towards the incident,

373
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440
you could see there was a change in him.
He was tensing up.

374
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,680
-Alex, did he hit you?
-No.

375
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,880
-With his hand?
-No.

376
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,240
My concern wasn't how much information
we could get out of a small child.

377
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,920
It was, you know, what sessions like this,
what distress they were gonna cause

378
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,960
and what damage
they were gonna do to his recovery.

379
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,640
Well, I can't tell you that bit.

380
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,960
No, it's really painful
to remember it, isn't it?

381
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,960
You're saying,
"I can't tell you that bit"?

382
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,560
-I can't tell you that bit.
-No?

383
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,640
There was a mystery
about just how much he might have seen.

384
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,200
I wish that he hadn't seen any of it,
you know?

385
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,400
That was a hope,

386
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,960
that he'd been pushed away
and all this had taken place out of,

387
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,600
you know, out of his, uh,

388
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,680
recognition and understanding.

389
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,040
You know when Mummy was lying
on the ground and the man had gone?

390
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,440
-Did you say anything to her?
-No.

391
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,600
-Did you talk to her at all?
-No.

392
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,040
Were you scared?

393
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:05,080
Mmm.

394
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,000
-Did you think she was asleep?
-Mmm.

395
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,480
-Did you?
-Mmm.

396
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,120
Did you want her to wake up?

397
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,040
Did you want her to wake up?

398
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:15,000
Mmm.

399
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,800
Did she wake up?

400
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:19,760
No.

401
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,560
It was pretty intense.

402
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,160
Every few days, there was another session.
This was going on over several weeks.

403
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,760
Alex was able to again show
the incredible recall,

404
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,520
you know, of a small child.

405
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,480
The events, how they unfolded,

406
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,960
where, you know,
the bad man came out from,

407
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,080
you know, from behind them

408
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,040
and, uh… how afterwards, he moved away,

409
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,880
washed his hands in a stream,
and then disappeared.

410
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:02,160
Alex, the man who hurt your mummy,
what type of trousers did he have?

411
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,120
-This one.
-That one?

412
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,640
And then
Alex started to describe this person.

413
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,000
-What color were they?
-Blue.

414
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,600
What color were his shoes?

415
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,960
That color.

416
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,840
We got a description from him
of a younger white man,

417
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,080
white shirt over blue trousers,

418
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,800
brown shoes.

419
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,560
But the most significant item of all

420
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,520
was Alex remembering he was wearing
a belt over his white shirt,

421
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280
almost like a butcher's apron.

422
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,160
Alex's description
was similar to one from a woman

423
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,240
who'd seen a man
walking towards the murder scene

424
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,120
ten minutes before the murder,

425
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,760
wearing a white top, dark trousers,

426
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,320
carrying a sort of bag.

427
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,840
So we… we came to the conclusion
that of all the people on the common,

428
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,320
that was most likely to be the suspect.

429
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,440
Now we just had to find him.

430
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,360
Superintendent, would it be fair to say

431
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,240
you've made very little progress
in reality so far?

432
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,720
Yes, uh, that is a fair assessment.

433
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,560
Uh, I'd have hoped by now
that we'd have had the man in custody,

434
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,440
uh, but when you see the enormity
of my problem here on the common,

435
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,920
you'll understand why.

436
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,680
In the absence of evidence,
police turned to criminal psychologists

437
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,040
to help build up
a profile of the attacker.

438
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,440
At the time, we're seeing films
such as Silence of the Lambs…

439
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,880
We're interviewing
all the serial killers now in custody

440
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,880
for a psycho-behavioral profile.

441
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,600
…where criminal psychologists work out
who their suspect was

442
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,360
through offender profiling.

443
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,080
I'm interested in it.

444
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,600
Uh, as I say,
the Americans have a lot of success.

445
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,240
One expert they've consulted
is Robert Ressler, a retired FBI agent.

446
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,720
Ressler has interviewed many
of America's most notorious sex killers,

447
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,000
like Jeffrey Dahmer.

448
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,840
He says the man who murdered
Rachel Nickell is disorganized.

449
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,280
The first thing people think about
is this is a serial killer.

450
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,640
Are we gonna see this again,
uh, within days or weeks?

451
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,480
We're dealing with
a disorganized, uh, frenzied,

452
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,120
possibly mentally disordered individual.

453
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,800
Although John Bassett had met Bob Ressler,

454
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,080
that was basically a flying visit.

455
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:25,360
But it was thought that we probably should
progress the offender profiling idea.

456
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,000
And so
the most important offender profiler,

457
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,000
who'd worked with the police before,

458
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,320
became involved in this inquiry
as an advisor.

459
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,080
When the police ask me to come and help,

460
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,080
it's usually because things have stuck
in some way.

461
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,680
And I'm quite sure this was true
with the murder of Rachel Nickell.

462
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,400
Leicester University's Paul Britton

463
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,760
has worked on some of the country's
most notorious crime cases.

464
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080
In each case, the police, they say,

465
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,120
"What I want from you

466
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,280
is something that will help me
to identify a perpetrator."

467
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:08,320
Dennis Nilsen, interviewed
in prison by psychologist Paul Britton,

468
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,200
preyed on homeless young men.

469
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,120
"Something that will take me closer
to preventing this person doing it again."

470
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,160
Paul Britton, a forensic psychologist,

471
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,360
says the Wests aren't as unique
as people might believe.

472
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,520
He's certain
there are other mass murderers at large.

473
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,320
I was asked to come along
and look at this case

474
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,360
between three and four weeks
after Rachel had been killed.

475
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,240
And what they wanted from me
was my opinion,

476
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880
a psychological analysis
of who might have done this.

477
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,840
I have the crime scene materials.

478
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,160
I have the video.
I have the maps of the common.

479
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,760
But what I need to do

480
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,720
is to actually make a visit
to the scene itself.

481
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,600
There's a car park by a windmill
on Wimbledon Common.

482
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,720
We parked there,

483
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800
and we walked across to the crime scene.

484
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,320
What the offender would be looking at

485
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,760
is a place where he can find
a victim of opportunity.

486
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,640
It's somewhere
where he would be able to observe,

487
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,080
to monitor.

488
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,160
He waits to find whoever it is
that's closest to his preference,

489
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,960
and it happens to be poor Rachel Nickell.

490
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,320
He was able to look and watch

491
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,560
because he's a watcher. He's a surveiller.

492
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,400
And so very often,

493
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,080
and I speak plainly, if you don't mind,

494
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,480
you would have this…

495
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,280
"That bitch
would look down her nose at me."

496
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,880
"I'm not having that."

497
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,960
"I'm gonna have her."

498
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,280
What you have is a very focused intention
to obliterate this young woman.

499
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,120
But Rachel Nickell, she would not likely
just give herself up to death…

500
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,840
without there being some response.

501
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,080
But if someone is basically saying,

502
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600
"You do what I want now
or I'll hurt the child,"

503
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,160
that changes everything.

504
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,960
The child is there as a hostage.

505
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,560
The child is there
as a bargaining counter.

506
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,920
She knows that she's giving up her life
for her child's.

507
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,320
I was able to be absolutely clear.

508
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,040
He will kill other people.

509
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,040
This is just not a static picture.

510
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,080
This is just a frame
in a film that's carrying on.

511
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,120
When you got back to Mummy,
was she standing, or was she lying down?

512
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,080
Huh. I can't remember that bit.

513
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,480
Don't keep asking me
these questions, Daddy.

514
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,280
You're doing very well, Alex.
You're doing very well.

515
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,040
The days are turning into weeks.
Weeks are turning into months.

516
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,160
And we reached a point

517
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520
where it was just becoming
heavy and repetitive.

518
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,120
And that was a point
where I felt, "This is…"

519
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,880
"We're playing for diminishing returns.
What more can he possibly give?"

520
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,480
-When you got back to Mummy…
-I'm fed up.

521
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,920
-You're fed up?
-Yes.

522
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,160
-One last question, Alex.
-No. No more.

523
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,280
Okay, all right, that's fine. Come here.

524
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,760
You've done well. You've done really well.

525
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Talk another time about the rest, huh?

526
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,160
No.

527
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,920
No, I… I would be still fed up.

528
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,880
-You'll still be fed up?
-Yes.

529
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,600
We won't talk anymore.

530
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,280
The police wanted to try
one last throw of the dice.

531
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,920
Came up with
this still more desperate idea

532
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760
that perhaps we could go
to Wimbledon Common and relive that.

533
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,120
They hoped, I think,

534
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,880
that seeing the actual site of the killing
would trigger yet more memories.

535
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,120
I thought it was a very long shot,

536
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,760
but I didn't feel
I could forbid them to do it.

537
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:31,960
All right.

538
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,760
So now, okay,
it's not another repetitive session

539
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,040
in the same… in the same environment.

540
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,040
Maybe there is some value in it.

541
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,840
And when we got there, he was
actually reluctant to get out of the car.

542
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,440
The thing that was bothering him was
the presence of all these unknown adults,

543
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,240
because the police had turned up.

544
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,760
It wasn't just the detectives
he was used to.

545
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,880
There were several other officers.

546
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,160
We eventually got out of the car,
and we started walking.

547
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,720
Once we started walking, he was happy.

548
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,920
We were walking down that path.

549
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,840
We just started running,
Alex and I, for the fun of it.

550
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,680
He was having a good time. But we had
a bunch of coppers running behind us

551
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,720
and a psychologist running behind us.

552
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,680
The police were taking us,

553
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640
but I could see that the little boy knew
where we were going…

554
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,640
and was remembering things.

555
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,360
We were getting nearer and nearer
to the site of the crime.

556
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,920
I was aware
the child was stiffening and stiffening,

557
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,320
and I'm pretty sure he was remembering.

558
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:01,960
Alex?

559
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,800
The man who killed Mummy, where was he?

560
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,480
Was it here?

561
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,000
When did he start talking to Mummy?

562
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,960
Do you remember?

563
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:18,920
You said to me once

564
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000
that he was talking to Mummy
before he killed Mummy.

565
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Do you remember
where he was talking to Mummy?

566
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,120
Hmm? Down by the pond?

567
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,360
And then there came a point
when he stumbled and fell forwards.

568
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,200
And he howled and sobbed.

569
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,400
And that's the point
when André had had enough.

570
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,200
This is fucking stupid.

571
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,960
He was crying, and, uh, I snapped.

572
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,920
That was enough for me. I had enough.

573
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,440
This was… This was, uh,
taking too heavy a toll on… on… on him

574
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,440
and too heavy a toll on me as well.

575
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,480
Go! Let's fucking go!

576
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,800
So I picked him up
and just headed back to the car.

577
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,120
We, you know, we drove off at full speed,
left them in our dust, basically.

578
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,240
But, uh, I was in no fit state,

579
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,840
so I pulled up as soon as I could,
found a quiet spot.

580
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,360
And, uh, I really burst into tears,

581
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,120
and I just… I just couldn't stop.

582
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,320
I just couldn't, uh… prevent myself.

583
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,640
I couldn't be strong at that point.

584
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,760
And I knew he was watching me.
He was calm by then.

585
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,080
But, uh, I just had to let it out.

586
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,760
And then, you know,
once I got myself together,

587
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,400
I said that… I said that I was sorry,

588
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,760
and, uh, we head back to Grandma's house.

589
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,760
So we pulled away.

590
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,240
That was the last time I ever saw them.

591
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,800
I'd done what I could.

592
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,480
I wasn't very happy with what I'd done,
but I'd tried and, um…

593
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,200
Sadness. And…

594
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,520
just awareness that it was an attempt
that hadn't worked.

595
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,960
First, a notorious crime

596
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,640
that, two months ago,
made headlines all over Britain.

597
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:35,800
On Wimbledon Common in Southwest London,

598
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,040
a young mother, Rachel Nickell,
was waylaid and repeatedly stabbed.

599
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,360
It appears to be a random killing,

600
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,320
which, of course,
makes it extremely hard to solve.

601
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,120
Tonight, detectives are putting
all their cards on the table,

602
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,520
and they're appealing
for the nation's help to name the killer.

603
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,360
We came to a stage in the inquiry

604
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,800
when we were quite satisfied
that the description we had,

605
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920
there's a good chance he was the murderer.

606
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,640
So that was time now to go to the media

607
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,640
to see if anybody
could come up with any names

608
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,440
as to who that person might be.

609
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,320
The man was in his twenties or thirties.

610
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,600
He was tall, more than five feet ten,
and had short brown hair.

611
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,480
He had a white shirt with buttons
and dark trousers, possibly blue,

612
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,840
and was carrying a small, dark bag.

613
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,720
Curiously, his belt was over his shirt
rather than round his trousers.

614
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,520
Now, from this point,
let's add some informed conjecture.

615
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,520
A consultant clinical psychologist is
drawing up a likely profile of the killer.

616
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,160
What they got from me

617
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:43,920
was a point-by-point
psychological analysis of the killer,

618
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,000
in my view.

619
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,320
The killer is under the age of 30.
He lives locally.

620
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,440
He has few friends
and has solitary hobbies.

621
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,720
He may have an interest in martial arts.

622
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,200
He likes pornography.

623
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,120
He doesn't have a steady girlfriend.

624
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,720
If he's had previous girlfriends,

625
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,640
they'll have found him unsatisfying,
sexually inexperienced…

626
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,560
I told them this is an offender
who wouldn't live very far away.

627
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,160
This is someone who knew the common,
who knew his way around.

628
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:13,280
He would have been travelling on foot.

629
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,320
The telephone number to ring…

630
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,040
After Crimewatch,

631
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,440
a lot of telephone calls came in.

632
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,880
As far as the Rachel Nickell murder
is concerned,

633
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,040
90 calls here to the studio
the last time I spoke to the team.

634
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,240
Ten of them are very interesting.

635
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,800
One man has gone straight to the top
of their priority list.

636
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,480
We were getting phone calls
from two or more local people,

637
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,920
saying that the artist's impression…

638
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,920
looked like a man called Colin Stagg.

639
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,640
And they indicated that they thought

640
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,280
he was the type of individual
that could have carried out this killing.

641
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,800
And he admitted having been on the common

642
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,800
around about the same time
as Rachel was found.

643
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,960
The lady who saw
a man walking towards the murder scene

644
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,160
then later picked Stagg out
of an identification parade

645
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:10,320
as that person.

646
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,320
Police say the man was arrested
around midday yesterday.

647
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,960
He's still being questioned.

648
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,720
Stagg lived near to the common,

649
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,480
so when he was arrested,
his flat was searched.

650
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,600
It was a very strange set-up in that flat.

651
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,680
I remember when we arrived,
there was something on the front door.

652
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,800
It said, "Christians beware,"
or words to that effect.

653
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,040
And there was one room

654
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,880
where the sort of signs of the Zodiac
were painted on the floor,

655
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,440
and there was gothic images
all around the place.

656
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,200
It was just a bizarre place.

657
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,160
One of the officers found a cupboard,

658
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,640
and in the cupboard,
there was some survivalist equipment.

659
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:56,960
There were knives.

660
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,600
There was also a club
with a ball on the end of it.

661
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,640
And it certainly indicated that this just
wasn't a normal member of the public,

662
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,120
that there was something odd about him.

663
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,000
Plus, of course,
he fitted to a tee the offender profile.

664
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,680
But there was a problem.

665
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Despite the fact
that he fitted the offender profile,

666
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,600
we just didn't have enough evidence
to link him with the murder.

667
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,440
He admitted that he would sunbathe naked
on the common,

668
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040
and he was charged with indecent exposure.

669
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,560
But then he was released.

670
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,320
It was obviously disappointing,
because not only was he a good suspect,

671
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,120
but he was the only suspect
from the whole inquiry.

672
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,520
So we needed to work out, "Is he our man?"

673
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,560
And without forensic evidence,

674
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,400
we didn't know.

675
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,280
After they released Colin Stagg,
the press were on our doorstep.

676
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,400
Alex was the only witness
to his mother's murder,

677
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,200
and whoever had perpetrated that
was still on the loose.

678
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,760
So he was in danger.

679
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,840
That's when I knew
we really weren't safe here,

680
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,640
and I had to take him away.

681
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920
We didn't have a lot of trust in anybody.

682
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,280
So we just took every precaution possible
not to be followed, not to be tracked…

683
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,760
and head off into the dark.

684
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,080
And we, you know, headed to the coast

685
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,560
to put as much distance between us and…

686
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,760
and a killer on the loose

687
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,560
and a press pack
that was willing to stop at nothing.

688
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,160
And we left friends and family.
We left everything material behind.

689
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:56,960
We left the home that we'd shared.

690
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,240
It was only what we could literally carry
with us that we took forward.

691
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,480
We crossed the frontier
and, uh, entered a new world.

692
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,000
Rachel and I had always talked
about moving to France.

693
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,840
I'd spent a lot of time in France
when I was a teenager.

694
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,000
Played a lot of tennis

695
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,320
and, uh, hitchhiked around,
so I knew the country pretty well.

696
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,800
We were in a small village,
just a few miles from the coast.

697
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,960
Pulled up outside the front door
for the first time

698
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,560
with the keys in our hand,
opened the door,

699
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,240
just had a wonderful feeling
of something new starting.

700
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,400
I've only got two.
You've got about 50 over there.

701
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,640
Look under…

702
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:06,720
It was absolutely idyllic.

703
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,480
A lovely little house.

704
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,160
A view out of the courtyard.

705
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,520
There were chickens in the run.
There were puppies running around.

706
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,720
And, uh, we really could finally stop

707
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,080
and… and take stock
and feel some peace and quiet around us.

708
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Alex, calm down.

709
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,840
Calm down.

710
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,480
You're gonna get a tummy ache
if you eat like that.

711
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,880
What it felt like is that we'd left
a great deal of the evil behind us.

712
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,640
You know, it felt like
we were in a place of peace.

713
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,480
Finally, it seemed like things were…
things were going in our direction.

714
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,480
It was, uh, absolute bliss.

715
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,080
You know?
Just to have that anonymity again.

716
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,680
Good evening. The detective leading
the hunt for the killer of Rachel Nickell,

717
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,560
the young woman murdered
on Wimbledon Common a year ago,

718
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,080
says the inquiry may be
scaled down within weeks,

719
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,800
unless there's a major development.

720
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,560
I would think if nothing crucial
comes to light within the next two months,

721
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,560
then I would say that will be
the end of the investigation.

722
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,760
John Bassett was telling the press
that there were no new leads,

723
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,960
that the inquiry,
we'd gone as far as you could,

724
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,400
and it was winding down,

725
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,920
whereas all the time
there was something going on.

726
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,840
It said, um,
"I've enclosed a fancy letter,

727
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,800
and if you don't want to read it,
then you don't have to."

728
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,000
Um, but curiosity got the better of me,
and I had to read the letter.

729
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,800
We received a phone call from a woman

730
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,520
who'd seen Colin Stagg on the television,

731
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:57,920
and she said, "That man

732
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,440
is a man who I've had
a lonely hearts club exchange of letters."

733
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,920
"And they're very strange letters."

734
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,200
Every word,

735
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,080
he uses the most filthiest,
vulgar words you can use.

736
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,680
He asked if I liked the letter
that he'd written to me.

737
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560
Um, I said
I wasn't impressed by it, basically,

738
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,800
and that he said
he'd written me another one

739
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,000
and would I like him to send it to me,
and I said no.

740
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,520
If I did get another letter from him,
I was gonna give them to the police.

741
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,840
She sent those letters to us,

742
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,480
which gave us some insight into the way
that Colin Stagg was thinking.

743
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,200
Then John Bassett asked me
to go upstairs to his office,

744
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,360
and I was introduced to
this female police officer.

745
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,840
Bassett said,
"This is my detective sergeant,

746
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,360
and I want him to know what's happening."

747
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,440
And then it was explained to me

748
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,840
that there was gonna be
an undercover operation

749
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,800
to discover
if Colin Stagg's sexual fantasies

750
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,960
would reveal some information
about the murder

751
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,400
that only the murderer would know.

752
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,640
The police came to me

753
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,000
and asked if I could help them
with an undercover operation.

754
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,880
The way that it would work

755
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:18,320
is that the undercover police officer
would write a letter to Colin Stagg

756
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,280
with the fake name Lizzie James.

757
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,760
She's trying to get him to write to her
about his sexual fantasies

758
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,120
so that if he wrote back

759
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,920
in a way that was similar

760
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,240
to the way that the killer
of Rachel Nickell might write back,

761
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,800
then you had the basis
for further investigation.

762
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,440
And Colin Stagg did write back.

763
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,560
Dear Lizzie,
I'm so glad you like my letters

764
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,040
and that you are as broad-minded
and uninhibited as me.

765
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,840
I want to dominate you.

766
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,440
The things I'm going to do to you
will literally make your eyes water.

767
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,040
You will be left humiliated and dirty.

768
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,840
The police were very excited

769
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,240
at the first sexual elements
that came back from Colin Stagg.

770
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,280
They're now feeling justified
in their operation,

771
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,120
that there was more to know,

772
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,240
and that they hadn't wasted their time.

773
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,520
One day,
after we'd been there for maybe a year,

774
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,440
Alex and I were doing
pretend sword fighting.

775
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,400
And, uh, he said,
"This is like when the bad man came."

776
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,320
And I tried…

777
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:53,480
I caught myself,

778
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,960
and I tried to carry on
as naturally as possible.

779
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,280
So, um, one morning,
I just sat down at the little red table,

780
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,960
put the… put the…
put the camera up, and, uh….

781
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,480
and, uh, just attempted
to talk about what happened.

782
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,920
Alex wanted to draw,

783
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,480
and he wanted me to help him
with the drawing.

784
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:28,720
Dadda, can you help me draw Mummy
on this piece of paper?

785
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,920
As we continued with the drawing,
Alex came up with information

786
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,840
which made it absolutely clear
what he'd seen.

787
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,000
Did Mummy see him?

788
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,000
I don't think she did.

789
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,960
No? Did you see him first?

790
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,040
Yeah, I saw him first.

791
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,120
Did he have a bag?

792
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,680
Yeah.

793
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,000
And did he open it,
or was it already open?

794
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,040
He opened it.

795
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,440
And what did he get out?

796
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,480
A knife.

797
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,000
There's Mummy. There's the bad man.

798
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,840
Where's the knife?

799
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,920
-What did he do to you?
-Knocked me over!

800
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,560
-He knocked you over?
-Yeah.

801
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,920
The bad man
was sticking his things in her.

802
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,480
-What was he sticking in her?
-A knife. There's his knife.

803
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,200
Did you see it?

804
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,280
Yeah, I saw the knife.

805
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,920
Did you see all the times?

806
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,320
I saw it… Yeah, I saw it all.

807
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,200
All of it.

808
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,680
He'd been there, seen it all, had… had…

809
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,680
assimilated all of this, you know,
survived nearly a year,

810
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,040
basically withholding this in his head
on his own.

811
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,920
-Did you see everything pretty much?
-Yeah, I saw everything.

812
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,440
Did you look the other way?

813
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,200
Yeah, I looked that way.

814
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,560
I looked that way to see
if anything else was happening.

815
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,960
-Did you?
-Yeah.

816
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,240
Was it really horrible?

817
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,040
Yes, it was really horrible.

818
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,560
It was very hard to hear.

819
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,400
You know, this is your child.
This is your baby.

820
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,600
He was there.
Rachel was there. I wasn't there.

821
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,200
I tried to imagine that
all the way through that year,

822
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,680
over and over, night after night.
I wanted to know what they'd been through,

823
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,200
because I wanted to be able
to do something about it

824
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,160
or share in some way.

825
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,240
And here, you know,
I was getting confirmation

826
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,440
of exactly what, you know,
what took place, what Alex had seen,

827
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,880
and, uh… it put me right back
in a state of imagining

828
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,920
what that must have been like
for… for… for both of them.

829
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,280
And then a couple of weeks later,

830
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,880
well, the news came

831
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,800
that they were gonna charge Colin Stagg
for Rachel's murder.

832
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,880
Scotland Yard says Colin Francis Stagg
was arrested at 5:30 this morning

833
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,400
at his home in Roehampton
in Southwest London.

834
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,400
The address where the arrest was made

835
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,320
is within a mile or so of the spot
on Wimbledon Common

836
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,680
where Rachel was killed
just over a year ago.

837
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,880
Police spent the day digging up his garden

838
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,040
and scanning the ground
with metal detectors.

839
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,240
Colin Stagg was arrested, uh,
and brought to Wimbledon Police Station,

840
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,560
uh, as a suspect for murder.

841
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,360
His detention followed
an undercover operation

842
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,440
involving a woman police constable.

843
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,280
She struck up
a close relationship with Stagg.

844
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,880
Would you like
to introduce yourself formally?

845
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,640
Yes, I'm a serving police officer.

846
00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:31,920
For the purpose of this interview,
I'm known as Lizzie James.

847
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,800
If I were to show you
some 30 or 40 letters

848
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,040
that you've exchanged with Lizzie James,

849
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,160
would you have anything to say
concerning your desire

850
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,480
to have sexual intercourse
and sexual practices

851
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,680
on Wimbledon Common and in open woodland

852
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,480
involving the use of knives…

853
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,560
No comment.

854
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,440
…where blood is caused to flow?

855
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:57,480
No comment.

856
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,280
During the undercover operation,

857
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,200
Colin Stagg met
with the undercover policewoman,

858
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,280
and what he did was hand her a letter

859
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,440
which introduced the notion of knives
and all sorts of other things

860
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,760
that were present
in the fantasies of the killer.

861
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,000
Do you remember this letter now, Colin?

862
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:16,240
No comment.

863
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,480
"The man then goes over
to his pile of clothes

864
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,040
and produces some string and a knife."

865
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,720
What the killer of Rachel Nickell had

866
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,560
was a series
of very specific elements in their fantasy

867
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,360
that are not that common.

868
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,640
And now Colin Stagg seems to have
exactly that same set of fantasies.

869
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,920
We have to look at the fantasies
as they've progressed

870
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,000
as you've written to Lizzie James.

871
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,160
The increasing deviance,

872
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:50,160
the increasing domination,
the increasing violence.

873
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,080
The need to humiliate and dominate.

874
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,400
There was just so much pointing
towards him as being the murderer.

875
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,120
I think what happened
is you walked off down the windmill path,

876
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,320
and you sat down
on a little patch of grass.

877
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,360
I think you actually described it
in one of your letters to Lizzie James.

878
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,480
The fact that you see
this gorgeous blonde woman

879
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,560
approaching from a distance.

880
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,160
-Is that what happened to Rachel?
-No comment.

881
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,560
You looked down
from your vantage point and spied her.

882
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,040
And you rushed down, and you ambushed her.

883
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,040
And you pushed the little boy face down.

884
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,320
Pushed the little boy face down
into the mud.

885
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,960
-No comment.
-Then you stabbed Rachel 49 times.

886
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:33,920
No comment.

887
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,120
On 15th July 1992, on Wimbledon Common,

888
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,440
you murdered Rachel Nickell,

889
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,400
causing her death by multiple stab wounds.

890
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,960
No comment.

891
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,920
After being held overnight
at a police station nearby,

892
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,360
Colin Stagg was driven quickly
into Wimbledon Magistrates Court,

893
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,760
charged with the murder of Rachel Nickell.

894
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,080
Magistrates remanded him in custody
until next week.

895
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,800
The Crown Prosecution Service
were consulted

896
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,680
with all the evidence relating
to the letters and the interview,

897
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,120
and it was decided
that there was enough evidence

898
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,320
to charge him with the murder.

899
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,080
With Colin Stagg off the streets,

900
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,360
as far as I was concerned,
this was all finished.

901
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,720
So I decided that it was a good time
to go for something else.

902
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:33,520
So I left the investigation.

903
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,680
The fact
that Colin Stagg was now in custody,

904
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,000
it gave a certain…
certain feeling of relief.

905
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,960
But we'd learned really early on,

906
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,640
I knew that if you'd been through
a situation as we'd had,

907
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:55,400
you're constantly protecting yourself,
and you have a wait-and-see mentality.

908
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,800
Police in South London hunting the killer
of a four-year-old girl and her mother

909
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,520
say it's one of the most shocking cases
they've ever had to investigate.

910
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,000
I'm Mummy.

911
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,160
Close friends of Samantha
and Jazmine Bisset

912
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,120
are still trying to take in what happened.

913
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,720
What has shocked police
is the ferocity of the murders.

914
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,360
A senior officer said
Sam Bisset's injuries were horrific.

915
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,960
I mean, I consider myself fairly hard,

916
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,360
uh, not affected much,

917
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,400
but…

918
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,160
…even now, it makes me think,

919
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:48,920
"Christ, what on earth went on there?"
I mean, it was horrendous, you know?

920
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,080
Micky Banks was
my detective superintendent.

921
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,560
He was the senior investigating officer,
and he actually…

922
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,440
I remember he put his arm around me

923
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,880
and said, "Rog," you know,
"just brace yourself, son."

924
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,160
"This is the worst one I've ever seen."
I remember that to this day.

925
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,720
And then we went in together
with the forensic team

926
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,120
and went through the flat.

927
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,560
It was a small flat. It was one-bedroomed,

928
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,720
and we understood
that Samantha Bisset lived there

929
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,840
with her four-year-old daughter,
but they had to share a bedroom.

930
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,120
She was a single mum,
probably didn't have much money.

931
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:31,000
There were lots of toys in the bedroom,
lots of Jazmine's paintings on the walls.

932
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,000
It seemed to me that they were very close.

933
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:37,720
Uh, and when we walked in,

934
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,880
it became apparent that Samantha had been
possibly stabbed to death in the hallway,

935
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,320
dragged through to the living room,

936
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,000
and placed on a large cushion
in, like, a star formation.

937
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,960
And she'd been mutilated.

938
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,600
Uh, an attempt had been made
to remove her legs,

939
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,120
and the body had been opened up.

940
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,120
When we walked back down the hallway,

941
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,280
the bedroom was at the right-hand side
near to the front door.

942
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,280
And we went into the bedroom,

943
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,440
and there was a little girl's head
peeping out of a… underneath a duvet.

944
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,440
You could just see
these tousled, um, hair,

945
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,160
and it turned out
that she'd been suffocated

946
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,640
and sexually assaulted.

947
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,600
So she was dead,
but she looked like she was asleep.

948
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:29,720
First thoughts was,

949
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,000
"We've gotta get whoever done this,
because this is a maniac."

950
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,320
Everybody wanted to catch this bastard
that had done this crime, you know?

951
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,440
Uh, it was…
it was a thing that we all agreed on,

952
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,720
because if you don't,
there'll be another murder.

953
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,840
Because once these people start this,

954
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,640
you know, it's quite obvious
they would become a serial killer.

955
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,160
There was hundreds of fingerprints
in the flat,

956
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,960
and, of course, it had to go through
the fingerprint department,

957
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,000
each one looked at individually.

958
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,560
The fingerprint officers would
look through a magnifying glass

959
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,280
at a fingerprint and identify it
through the swirls and the marks,

960
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,000
which is an art.

961
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,440
But within maybe two months,

962
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,360
we'd managed to eliminate
all of those finger marks,

963
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,960
which in itself is quite unusual

964
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,200
because there's normally one or two marks
which remain unidentified,

965
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,640
and they're often the suspect's.

966
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,000
There was no… no DNA. There was no clues.

967
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,600
Nothing at all
that would help the investigation.

968
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,920
We found absolutely nothing,
which is most unusual.

969
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,400
There was no sign
of a break-in at the flat,

970
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,360
and detectives admit
they have few clues in this case.

971
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,840
As for the motive for this murder
of a mother and her young daughter,

972
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,280
it appears only the killer knows that.

973
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,880
I was approached
by my then-detective chief superintendent

974
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,760
that, uh, I should get Paul Britton in

975
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:03,800
because he was an expert.

976
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,000
He'd done a lot of work
on the Rachel Nickell inquiry.

977
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,040
I was then taken
to the scene of the murders itself.

978
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,160
The flat that Samantha
and Jazmine Bisset lived in

979
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,840
is really quite important in its location.

980
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,520
Immediately behind the flat,

981
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,000
there is a garden area.

982
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,160
And then beyond that,

983
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,880
you have a tree-banked area,

984
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,600
where he sits,
he watches, he fulfils his fantasies,

985
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:41,880
and gets these sort of thoughts.

986
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,840
"You're not going to tease me."

987
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,240
"You're not going to ridicule me."

988
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,880
"Let's see how you get on
when I've finished with you."

989
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,640
Paul Britton's a clinical psychologist.
How much do you think you know him?

990
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,640
I think we know quite well
what was going through his mind

991
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,360
at the time of the offense,

992
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,720
but I would like him to tell me
how he got started on the pathway

993
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,160
that led him eventually to kill,
to harm Samantha.

994
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:06,680
You'd like him to tell you?

995
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,000
He's not very likely to ring up and say,

996
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,120
"Can I speak to Paul Britton, please?"
and here are his answers.

997
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,720
I think that there is a possibility
that he might want to do that.

998
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,480
It's extremely rare that
strangers attack members of the public.

999
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,160
Children being present is even rarer.

1000
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,120
He's probably done
something similar before.

1001
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,640
He's not gone out and just done this.
You work up to that level of violence.

1002
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,760
And we couldn't fathom out how,

1003
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,880
within a gap of 16 months

1004
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:50,120
between the Wimbledon Common murder
and the Plumstead murder,

1005
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:57,560
how two different people could commit
such ferocious, audacious crimes.

1006
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,360
So was it possible
that the same person committed both?

1007
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:08,040
The victims were
very similar in age and looks.

1008
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,280
Both had a child present
during the attacks.

1009
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,040
And the number of stab wounds
on Rachel Nickell and Samantha Bisset

1010
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,640
were in the region of 50.

1011
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:22,880
So at our request,

1012
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,960
the senior detectives
investigating the Nickell investigation

1013
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:27,480
came over to our incident room

1014
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,320
to discuss the similarities
between both scenes.

1015
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,800
And they basically dismissed
our suggestion

1016
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,160
that the two crimes could have
been committed by the same person.

1017
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,520
Because, of course,

1018
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,800
Colin Stagg was in custody
when the Bissets were murdered.

1019
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,520
And we tried to impress upon them
that they may have got the wrong person.

1020
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,120
And how was that met?

1021
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,960
Uh, with hostility and just absolutely…

1022
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,560
"There's no way
we haven't got the right person."

1023
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,440
They had their suspect,
and, uh, they just…

1024
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,720
they weren't interested in discussing it.

1025
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,200
They were convinced
that they had the right chap.

1026
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,520
Opening the presents!

1027
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,160
It had been a year and a half,
and Alex was, you know, in a good place.

1028
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,520
There are not much presents
under the tree now.

1029
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,480
There's loads of presents under the tree.

1030
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,120
He was settled in at school,
happy with his friends.

1031
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,280
So, you know, he was really thriving.

1032
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,240
It's a big crane.

1033
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:56,880
Around that time,

1034
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,480
the word got to me that, uh…

1035
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,800
that the police needed Alex
to give evidence at Colin Stagg's trial.

1036
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,480
They were hoping he could provide
physical descriptions of the assailant

1037
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,600
and also descriptions of his movements
before and after the attack.

1038
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,880
So once again, we're caught
between a rock and a hard place.

1039
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:21,840
What do we do?

1040
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:26,040
If this is the person
and, uh, we don't turn up,

1041
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,400
he's back on the street.

1042
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,680
But what is the price
that Alex is gonna pay

1043
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,960
in coming face-to-face
with the person who did this?

1044
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,320
I think it was just a feeling, you know.

1045
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,760
Just a feeling
that there was something so wrong here.

1046
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,600
Because it was one of the first crimes
I've ever been to

1047
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,200
where every print
that was there was eliminated.

1048
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,400
Micky Banks spoke to me,

1049
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,640
and he wanted
the finger marks to be searched again,

1050
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,360
especially those
belonging to Samantha Bisset.

1051
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,520
Micky really, really pushed hard
for that to be done,

1052
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,320
and the fingerprint branch
eventually gave in

1053
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,640
and agreed to re-examine
some of the more suspicious marks

1054
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,840
which were found at the Bisset flat.

1055
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:51,560
Sometime afterwards, he called me
and said, "We've had a result."

1056
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,160
Some of the fingerprints

1057
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,960
that had initially been identified
as belonging to Samantha Bisset…

1058
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:02,000
did, in fact,

1059
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,400
belong to a man called

1060
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,240
Robert Napper.

1061
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,480
And that was a eureka moment,
I'll tell you.

1062
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,520
I'll never forget it, you know.
God… Jesus, I was over the moon.

1063
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,800
They found about three or four prints
of Napper in the flat.

1064
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,120
Uh, one was on the ledge
outside the patio door,

1065
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:25,640
and some on the inside,

1066
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,680
where he'd obviously got in
through the French windows.

1067
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,440
He lived locally.
He had a very, very short criminal history

1068
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:38,160
and had, in fact,
spent, uh, two months in custody.

1069
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,920
Napper was arrested at his home on Friday.

1070
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,800
He was living in Plumstead High Street,

1071
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,200
half a mile
from where the killings took place.

1072
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,720
After he was arrested and assessed,
it was apparent

1073
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,040
he was suffering
from some sort of mental illness.

1074
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,760
And when he was interviewed,

1075
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,840
um, he did give very, very strange answers
in the third person,

1076
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,960
as if he was talking about someone else.

1077
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,720
He was the sort of bloke who thought
that he was different to the rest of us.

1078
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,440
He was aloof. Weird, weird chap.

1079
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,760
Everybody said the same,
anybody who met him.

1080
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,360
He just… He was weird.

1081
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,200
We went to his flat
at Plumstead High Street,

1082
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,160
a very, very small bedsit.

1083
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,840
Uh, he didn't have a bed or a mattress,
which I thought was strange.

1084
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,040
He slept on the floor, apparently.

1085
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,880
And then we began to search the property.

1086
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,760
And very quickly we found the red toolbox,

1087
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,760
which was on the floor.

1088
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,000
Uh, it was padlocked,

1089
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,360
and obviously we were desperate
to find out what was inside.

1090
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:45,680
When we opened it,

1091
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,360
there were knives.

1092
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,040
There was a book.

1093
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,840
And in the book, there were methods
of, I think, strangulation

1094
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,760
and vulnerable points on the body,

1095
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:03,120
which were used to attack people
and either immobilize them or kill them.

1096
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:05,720
There was an A to Z.

1097
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,280
And in his A to Z, there were
all sorts of markings and doodles.

1098
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,640
At the time,
we couldn't work out what they were.

1099
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,360
And we thought they were
obviously gonna be very important

1100
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:26,160
in the possible identification
of, uh, of scenes of his crimes.

1101
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,840
And on one of the doodles,

1102
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,400
there was a set of steps

1103
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,760
which looked like it could have
possibly been Heathfield Terrace.

1104
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,360
And in that doodle,
he wrote the words "potential area."

1105
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,920
He'd identified it
as a possible target for him.

1106
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,040
A 28-year-old man has been charged
with the murders

1107
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:53,840
of a single mother, Samantha Bisset,

1108
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,200
and her four-year-old daughter
last November.

1109
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,600
Today, Robert Napper denied murder

1110
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,680
but admitted their manslaughter.

1111
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,360
Samantha's killer is expected
to be sentenced later today.

1112
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,640
The really sad thing about this case
is that Samantha was an only child,

1113
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,120
and her mother, Margaret,

1114
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,400
never recovered from the loss

1115
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,720
of her only grandchild
and her only daughter.

1116
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,960
I mean, it's bad enough
losing your daughter,

1117
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,800
but your granddaughter as well?

1118
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,840
The family's wiped out.

1119
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,120
You know, tragedy. Awful.

1120
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,600
And to add to the distress of this case,

1121
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:36,200
her mother died

1122
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,760
the very day before Napper was
due to stand trial at the Old Bailey.

1123
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,480
So it's just a very… very, very sad case.

1124
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,040
Sometime later,

1125
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:00,240
looking at his maps again,

1126
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,560
although most of the markings
were within Southeast London…

1127
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,520
there was a particular mark

1128
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,680
way away from Plumstead

1129
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,160
in Richmond Park, Southwest London.

1130
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,040
It's called Isabella Plantation,

1131
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,280
which was a plot of open land
very, very close to Wimbledon Common,

1132
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,600
the scene of the Rachel Nickell murder.

1133
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,960
Stagg was first questioned
by detectives last September.

1134
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,240
He's due to appear here at court

1135
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,960
charged with murdering Rachel Nickell
this morning.

1136
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:51,120
I was informed before the trial
that, uh, Alex wouldn't be needed,

1137
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,160
that his testimony wasn't necessary.

1138
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,640
A part of me was very grateful
he wouldn't have to go through the ordeal.

1139
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,200
Another part of me was concerned

1140
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,600
that we weren't putting
everything into this we possibly could.

1141
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,840
And then a few days later,
the shock news came.

1142
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,160
A friend called to see how I was,
to see if I was holding up with the news.

1143
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:13,760
And I said, "With what news?"

1144
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,040
And he said, "You don't know?"

1145
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,560
He said, "It's been…
It's been thrown out."

1146
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,920
The man accused of the brutal murder
of Rachel Nickell

1147
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:24,720
on Wimbledon Common two years ago

1148
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,560
today walked free from court
before the trial proper had even begun.

1149
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,240
It was an absolute shock.

1150
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:32,760
An Old Bailey judge
launched a stinging attack

1151
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,360
on police methods today
after throwing out the case

1152
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,320
against the man
accused of killing Rachel Nickell.

1153
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,040
Colin Stagg walked free,
having spent more than a year in custody

1154
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,240
after being entrapped
by an undercover police operation

1155
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,000
that was strongly criticized by the judge
and ruled to be inadmissible.

1156
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:55,840
I was angry because whoever decided
that this evidence was good

1157
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:00,200
and would stand up to challenge
had obviously made a big mistake.

1158
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,680
And I was angry that maybe
the person who decided to kick it all out

1159
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,560
was going to an extreme, because there was
strong circumstantial evidence.

1160
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,960
There was probably a feeling
that if there was a decision to be made

1161
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:16,000
as to whether
Colin Stagg committed a murder,

1162
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,400
that decision should be made by a jury.

1163
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,800
But we didn't get that far.

1164
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,600
William Clegg QC, defending,
argued WPC James had lied,

1165
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,160
offered inducements of sex
and a relationship.

1166
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:29,760
Mr. Justice Ognall said

1167
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,920
the police behavior betrayed
not merely an excess of zeal

1168
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,560
but a blatant attempt
to incriminate a suspect

1169
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,080
by positive and deceptive conduct
of the grossest kind.

1170
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:41,200
We failed.

1171
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,560
And, um, that is not a good feeling.

1172
01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:49,200
"My life has been ruined by a mixture
of half-baked psychological theories

1173
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,240
and some stories written
to satisfy the strange sexual requests

1174
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:54,200
of an undercover police officer."

1175
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,160
"The judge recognized
there was never any evidence against me,

1176
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,920
no forensic evidence,
no confession evidence, nothing."

1177
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,880
Asked if Stagg should receive
an apology from the police,

1178
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,760
Sir Paul Condon said
the police had already apologized

1179
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,640
to those it thought necessary.

1180
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,960
I… I make no apologies at all

1181
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,600
for the Metropolitan Police inquiry
in this case.

1182
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,520
I fully support the action of my officers,

1183
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,320
and I take full responsibility
for police action in this case.

1184
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,400
It felt like we were back at day one,

1185
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,920
you know, with the killer on the loose
and no protection.

1186
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,120
And what really underlined that

1187
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,960
was Paul Condon, the head of the Met,
making a statement

1188
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,320
that they weren't looking for
anybody else.

1189
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,240
At the moment,
there is no new information,

1190
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,880
no new leads for us to explore.

1191
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,320
They made it clear that
they thought Stagg got away with murder

1192
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:57,800
and was now on the loose.

1193
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,000
I was left feeling like
I couldn't trust anybody,

1194
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:06,600
and we always wondered whether or not
we were treated in a different way

1195
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,840
because, uh, I was a young man of color.

1196
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,880
You lose all faith in… in the system.

1197
01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:16,680
So now any closure that we…

1198
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,200
that was gonna be truly meaningful was
something we'd have to find for ourselves,

1199
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,600
and we couldn't rely on
outside circumstances

1200
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,120
to provide us with that.

1201
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:41,000
For many, many years,
there was no real… real progress.

1202
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,360
Nothing had really changed
in terms of, you know, what we knew.

1203
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,440
From day one, it was the three of us.

1204
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,960
You know, my father and me
and our dog, Molly.

1205
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,280
That was who we were as a family.

1206
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,400
My father knew
that I understood what had happened.

1207
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,000
That my mother loved me,

1208
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,400
and, um, that
she wouldn't have wanted to leave me.

1209
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,520
So, my father and me,

1210
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,080
we didn't talk about… about my mother.

1211
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,320
You know? We didn't talk about the past.

1212
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:26,800
But I still… I felt an anger
that this had happened,

1213
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:32,160
and, you know, that no matter what I did,
I couldn't stop it from happening.

1214
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:40,240
I think if you witness
that degree of evil,

1215
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,880
you know, as a small child,

1216
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,440
the illusion that you have,
you know, that your parents,

1217
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,120
no matter how good a job they do,

1218
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,640
can really protect you from harm,

1219
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,600
I think that that…
you know, that collapses.

1220
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,000
Alex was absolutely
a really sweet little boy.

1221
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,120
There was a joy that was there.

1222
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,240
But then in the preteen years,
there was an anger, you know,

1223
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:12,040
and the anger was, you know,
quite rightly directed towards me.

1224
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:17,000
I was very angry about a lot of the things
we'd lived through.

1225
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,760
The sessions that went on
for weeks and months.

1226
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,040
The thing that was most distressing for me
was to be taken back,

1227
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:26,920
you know, to that day repeatedly

1228
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,920
and suggestions given
about how I should feel about it.

1229
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,600
And, you know,
I guess I carried that with me somewhat.

1230
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,400
He did get into trouble
with the authorities.

1231
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,040
Just small stuff, but the police
were on the doorstep on occasions.

1232
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,240
I don't think that I had the same…
the same respect,

1233
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,520
the same trust for my father
as I once had.

1234
01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:00,120
And the fundamental point was that he was
the protector of the family as the father

1235
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,680
and, you know, unfortunately
had allowed this to happen to us.

1236
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,920
So in my teenage years,
you know, we had a lot of conflict.

1237
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,440
I had a huge sense of guilt
that… that I hadn't protected my family.

1238
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,120
And you do feel stupid.

1239
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:24,520
You feel like a fool,

1240
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:30,240
because we're told to put our security
in the hands of other agencies.

1241
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,400
Once upon a time, it was the Wild West,
and you took the law into your own hands,

1242
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,680
and you protected, you know,
your loved ones with whatever it took.

1243
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,040
And that's what hit me at the time.

1244
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,320
I didn't do that.

1245
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,280
And I wish I had.

1246
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,320
With every week that goes by,
with every month that goes by,

1247
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:00,400
with every year that goes by,

1248
01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:03,560
you've kind of come to terms with,
on some level,

1249
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:05,560
that this may never be resolved.

1250
01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:29,280
By 2002, the Rachel Nickell case
did become a cold case.

1251
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:38,320
The police came and asked
if I and my team would have a look at it.

1252
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,640
I knew from reading the newspapers
that this had been a very violent attack.

1253
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:48,520
But I was aware

1254
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:53,160
Colin Stagg had been accused
and then acquitted.

1255
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,840
But I think he was still a suspect
as far as the police were concerned.

1256
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,840
And so they wanted us
just to cast a fresh pair of eyes over it

1257
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,120
and see whether or not,

1258
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:05,760
out of the things
that they'd collected at the time,

1259
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,080
whether there was anything in that

1260
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,680
that could possibly be used, um,

1261
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,240
to identify Rachel's attacker.

1262
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,720
There were some tapings,
these sticky tape lifts,

1263
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,920
um, taken from Rachel's body

1264
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,960
and particularly
the intimate parts of her body.

1265
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:31,920
And we noticed

1266
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,280
that the original scientists
hadn't found any DNA on these tapings.

1267
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:40,440
And so we knew immediately
that something was wrong,

1268
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:42,560
because there should've been

1269
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,520
an enormous amount
of Rachel's own DNA on these tapings.

1270
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:48,800
I think what probably happened is,

1271
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,680
if you have too much DNA in a sample,

1272
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,480
it can swamp the technique
so that you don't see anything.

1273
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,680
And so one of the first things we did
was, of course, to repeat it,

1274
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,280
but doing it in a slightly different way.

1275
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,560
Just as expected,
we got lots of Rachel's DNA.

1276
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,080
But we also got a tiny trace of male DNA.

1277
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,040
When we got this hint of male DNA,

1278
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:26,760
we really didn't know

1279
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,360
whether we'd be able to develop it enough,
get enough information out of it

1280
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:35,600
to identify one particular individual.

1281
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,040
And so we developed a whole new technique,

1282
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:42,800
a new sensitive technique,

1283
01:19:43,480 --> 01:19:48,680
um, and this involved taking
a tiny amount of DNA from a sample

1284
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,840
and then multiplying up the DNA,

1285
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:54,840
or we call it amplifying.

1286
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:58,400
So you've got
several times your original amount,

1287
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,680
so you've got enough to actually analyze.

1288
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,440
It took about two years

1289
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:08,160
to develop this technique
to the point where we could use it.

1290
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,480
Before we ran the…
uh, the information that we had,

1291
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,160
this DNA profile we had,
through the database,

1292
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,360
we checked it against Colin Stagg,

1293
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,680
and it definitely didn't match him.

1294
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,000
And so we put it through
the National DNA Database.

1295
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:32,920
And when we did that,
that's when it came up as a match.

1296
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:37,080
The phone rang one day,

1297
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,360
out of the blue, and it was the police,
and they had news.

1298
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,800
And the news was
there was a positive identification.

1299
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,960
And they said
that the person that had been identified

1300
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:50,600
was a completely new name.

1301
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:55,800
The DNA database produced a match

1302
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,880
for someone called Robert Napper.

1303
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:10,600
And then we discovered
that Napper was in Broadmoor

1304
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:16,080
because he'd also committed
a murder of a mother and a young daughter.

1305
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:23,280
It had been somebody else all the time.

1306
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:25,600
So that moment in time

1307
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,360
was when our worst possible scenario
had proved to be played out,

1308
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:31,240
that somebody else had been murdered

1309
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,640
by the same person
in the same circumstances.

1310
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:35,360
Another family's been destroyed.

1311
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,560
So if I didn't know
how blessed I'd been that Alex survived,

1312
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:45,920
when we found out
what happened to Samantha and Jazmine,

1313
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,680
I thank God every day.

1314
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:52,680
Because it's only by the grace of God
that… that we've survived together,

1315
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,840
and it's only by the grace of God
that he survived physically.

1316
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,840
I was watching a football match
on TV one evening.

1317
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:16,760
There was a knock on my door,

1318
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,880
and I was a bit annoyed
'cause I was missing the match.

1319
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:28,000
There was two journalists standing there.
And they said, um… um,

1320
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,800
"Did you know
that the police have arrested another man

1321
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:32,600
in relation to the Nickell murder,

1322
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,280
and they got DNA evidence
to prove he was guilty?"

1323
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,120
I was like, "Can you come back
in about an hour's time?"

1324
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:39,720
"I'm watching the match."

1325
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,120
They were like, "No problem,"
and they walked off.

1326
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,880
I was sick of the whole thing, you know?

1327
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,040
It dragged on for about 15 years.

1328
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,760
Colin Stagg had police protection today

1329
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,680
as the Rachel Nickell case
continued to haunt him.

1330
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,040
From when I was arrested,
there were articles in the newspapers

1331
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,240
stirring people's emotions up against me.

1332
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,960
People shouting out stuff like,
"Guilty," "Hang him,"

1333
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:03,360
stuff like that, you know.

1334
01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:06,600
Mr. Stagg remained
uncomfortably in the media spotlight

1335
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,280
even after his release.

1336
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:09,880
Don't!

1337
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,920
Instilling in people's minds

1338
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:17,240
that, "We know we had the right man,
but he got off on a technicality."

1339
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:20,040
You know? So I had to live with that.

1340
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,240
Many people thought he was guilty,

1341
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:26,360
but nobody actually heard the evidence
either for him or against him.

1342
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:29,720
That meant that he was
in a kind of limbo for all these years.

1343
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,720
Now, 15 years on, a man has been charged.

1344
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:34,800
He's 41-year-old Robert Napper.

1345
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,880
The last man to be charged,
Colin Stagg, was cleared

1346
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,720
because a policewoman
had tried to entrap him.

1347
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:45,080
I'd never had a proper girlfriend
up to the point of 29.

1348
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,320
So when I received a letter
from Lizzie James,

1349
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:51,480
I just felt really, um… happy

1350
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,040
that, um, a woman had shown
some interest in me.

1351
01:23:54,800 --> 01:24:00,320
It is clear that he is completely innocent
of any involvement in that case.

1352
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,360
And I today apologize to him

1353
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:06,840
for the mistakes that were made
in the early 1990s.

1354
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,400
I had very low self-esteem anyway
before this started.

1355
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:15,520
This knocked me back even further,
so even deeper and deeper.

1356
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:19,640
It did make me feel very paranoid.

1357
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:23,720
If I would accidentally sort of look at
a woman crossing the road and that,

1358
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,680
I used to immediately think,
like, "No, look away,"

1359
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:28,640
because somebody could be watching me

1360
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,840
thinking, "Hang on,
he's stalking that woman."

1361
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:35,040
And I just thought,
"Well, you know, this is your life now."

1362
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:39,920
"You've just got to get on with it.
You know, don't trust anybody."

1363
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:54,360
On the build-up to the trial,
one of the lead detectives said, uh,

1364
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:57,000
"After you fly in," he said, "we'll meet."

1365
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,920
There was something I needed to know
before we got to the courtroom itself.

1366
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,360
Seven o'clock in the evening,
we met at Hendon Police Station.

1367
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:09,760
He showed me into a back room.

1368
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:15,240
We're just the two of us present,
and he pushed a dossier across the table.

1369
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,000
What I saw in the dossier of documents

1370
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:25,440
was just
what an utter chaotic catalog of errors

1371
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:27,680
this whole investigation had been.

1372
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,080
It was absolutely devastating.

1373
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,720
It took me
all the way back to the very first day.

1374
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:38,680
The very first call,

1375
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,960
the very first news
that Rachel had been taken from us,

1376
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,520
and that Alex had been through
such an ordeal.

1377
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:46,760
We'd been trying to make sense of that

1378
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,040
week after week,
month after month, year after year.

1379
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:53,640
And all that's just exploded.

1380
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,560
Because here it says
it was all preventable.

1381
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:08,320
In the summer of 1989,

1382
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:10,560
three years before
the murder of Rachel Nickell

1383
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,400
and also the murders
of Samantha and Jazmine,

1384
01:26:13,480 --> 01:26:17,600
a serial rapist started attacking women,

1385
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:19,520
some with children present,

1386
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,440
on the Green Chain Walk pathway,

1387
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:27,200
which runs through woodland
and open common land in Southeast London,

1388
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:32,440
which is also not far
from the scene of the Bisset murders.

1389
01:26:36,440 --> 01:26:40,480
DNA had identified one suspect
for that series of rapes.

1390
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:46,640
Two people who had seen the poster
contacted the police and said,

1391
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,040
"That artist's impression

1392
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:51,600
looks remarkably like
a guy called Robert Napper."

1393
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,520
Two detectives investigating
the Green Chain Walk rapes

1394
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,320
went to his, uh, known address.

1395
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,840
He appeared. They both spoke to him.

1396
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:06,240
He was, uh, told that he had been
identified as a possible suspect.

1397
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,280
And he then was asked to come
and voluntarily give blood,

1398
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:11,720
which he agreed to do.

1399
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:14,960
But he failed
to attend the police station,

1400
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,480
so they went back to his address.

1401
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:19,640
He'd packed his bags and left.

1402
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:22,120
He'd gone.

1403
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:26,120
Subsequently,

1404
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:29,160
on the grounds that he was taller

1405
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:31,480
than the descriptions
given by the rape victims,

1406
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:32,800
the decision was made

1407
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:36,320
by the senior investigating officer
and his deputy

1408
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:40,640
to exclude him as a suspect
from that inquiry.

1409
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,160
So basically nothing else was done.

1410
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:48,400
Which baffles me to this day.

1411
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,680
Had Napper attended the police station,

1412
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,760
as he said he would do,
and his blood sample taken,

1413
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:02,640
he would have been then arrested
for the Green Chain Walk rapes.

1414
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:04,840
That didn't happen, which…

1415
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,320
It had catastrophic consequences.

1416
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,680
And then
there was something in the dossier

1417
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,920
that was, for me, even more devastating.

1418
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:22,600
In September or October of 1989,
and years before Rachel was killed,

1419
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,680
Robert Napper's mother
reported to the police

1420
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:29,680
that he confessed that he'd raped a woman
on Plumstead Common.

1421
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:32,840
But the police didn't follow it up.

1422
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:37,400
This was a fork in the road.

1423
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:41,320
If the police had followed up
on Robert Napper's mother's call

1424
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:43,920
and taken a blood sample from him,

1425
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,760
this could have prevented
all of the attacks that followed.

1426
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,320
The attack that Alex witnessed
was preventable.

1427
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:53,600
Rachel's death was preventable.

1428
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:58,440
Samantha and Jazmine's deaths
were preventable.

1429
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:03,560
If they'd done their job properly,
he would have been taken off the street.

1430
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:08,240
We watch today
as one of the great unresolved murders

1431
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,280
was finally resolved.

1432
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,160
Today, the killer
of Rachel Nickell was found guilty

1433
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,480
of stabbing her to death
on Wimbledon Common 16 years ago.

1434
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,480
Robert Napper was led out of the cells,

1435
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,840
up into the dock of Court 1
here at the Old Bailey,

1436
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:27,120
and there, gray-faced and balding,
with Rachel Nickell's parents looking on,

1437
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:29,880
he finally confessed
to killing their daughter.

1438
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,440
André, I'm right up on your…

1439
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,440
Today's confession brings to a close

1440
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:42,320
one of the most damning episodes
in Scotland Yard's history.

1441
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:45,720
They admitted
they could have caught Napper earlier

1442
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:47,120
and stopped him killing.

1443
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,320
If the police had done things differently,

1444
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:52,080
Rachel Nickell
and Samantha and Jazmine Bisset

1445
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:53,680
would not have lost their lives.

1446
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,640
More could and should have been done.

1447
01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:58,880
Had more been done,

1448
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,960
we would have been in a position
to have prevented this

1449
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,120
and other very serious attacks by Napper.

1450
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:23,680
We all grew up with fairy tales.

1451
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,080
We all grew up with that warning
not to go into the woods.

1452
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,440
The darkness,
the monsters, the… the danger.

1453
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:35,440
But it's not a fairy tale.

1454
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,000
There is true evil in this world.

1455
01:30:43,480 --> 01:30:47,920
I was really forced to…
to come to terms with that.

1456
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:54,440
My greatest confusion was, uh…
was why, you know?

1457
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,440
You know, the anger with God that, uh…

1458
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,120
that these kind of things
can happen to good people

1459
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,360
with absolutely no explanation.

1460
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:08,080
And so I had a mission,

1461
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:13,160
and, uh, that was to bring, you know,
Rachel's child through this

1462
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:14,880
in the best way possible.

1463
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,440
I think with people
you live through difficulties together,

1464
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:25,560
they either break you
and they break the relationship

1465
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,720
or they make the relationship
that much stronger.

1466
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:32,400
We were ultimately forced
to find our own closure,

1467
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:35,480
which I think is actually a good thing.

1468
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:37,880
And that was ultimately
the realization that,

1469
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,920
you know, you have no choice
but to make peace.

1470
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:42,000
Make peace with it.

1471
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:50,600
My parents believed in
the infinity of the spirit.

1472
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:56,000
That my mother would be with me always
wherever I went.

1473
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,600
My father sacrificed everything for me
and for what he believed in,

1474
01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:09,400
without any guarantees
of how it would turn out.

1475
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:17,120
He was brave enough to…
to do what he felt was right in his heart.

1476
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,680
I'm forever indebted to him for that.